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September 11

[edit]
September 11, 2024 (2024-09-11) (Wednesday)

Armed conflicts and attacks

Business and economy

Disasters and accidents

Law and crime

Politics and elections

Science and technology

(Posted) RD: Caterina Valente

[edit]
Article: Caterina Valente (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Tagesschau
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Entertainer, singer, guitarist from age 5, one of few German-language performers who made it to world star, appearing with Louis Armstrong, Ella Fitzgerald, to name just a few, recorded 1,500 songs in 13 languages - and still had a poor article. One of the obits says: "don't look at Wikipedia, look at her homepage". - Please look at Wikipedia, and improve what you can improve. Her death became known on 11 September. Listen to her singing ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:11, 16 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Joe Schmidt

[edit]
Article: Joe Schmidt (American football) (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): ABC News
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Hall of Fame Detroit Lions linebacker and two-time NFL champion. 240F:7A:6253:1:7C78:E248:64B1:15 (talk) 22:25, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD/blurb: Alberto Fujimori

[edit]
Proposed image
Articles: Alberto Fujimori (talk · history · tag) and Death of Alberto Fujimori (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination
Blurb:  Former President of Peru Alberto Fujimori dies at the age of 86. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ Former President of Peru Alberto Fujimori dies at the age of 86.
Alternative blurb II: ​ Former dictator and President of Peru Alberto Fujimori dies at the age of 86.
News source(s): AP
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Former Peruvian dictator. Sunshineisles2 (talk) 00:01, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Abcmaxx: Right - which is why I would vote for Putin, and I'm not voting either way on Fujimori. But you used the word 'venerating', and I think that's not at all a fair characterisation of what ITN does. GenevieveDEon (talk) 09:37, 13 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
How exactly are ITN blurbs venerating? All the blurbs follow WP:NPOV. 31.44.224.222 (talk) 10:37, 13 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Note that the Spanish language article has a much larger readership and seems influential as the leads of the English and Spanish versions are remarkably similar. It's not clear which language is the original and which the translation or whether there's two-way traffic. There's a similar issue with the man himself – whether he was the master of his fate or just a figurehead controlled by others.
Andrew🐉(talk) 07:40, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Quality issues have been addressed in terms of sourcing. TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 21:05, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
There's a lot more to it than that. What matters is what the article actually says rather than how many footnotes it has. Adding lots of footnotes that no-one reads just adds to the "never mind the quality, feel the width" vibe. Andrew🐉(talk) 08:23, 13 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support blurb: An extremely polarising figure that has been made notable around the world. Article does need a lot of work but will support in principle. Tofusaurus (talk) 11:56, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support blurb This one should be a no-brainer. A former head of state who was a notorious political figure in his region, convicted of human rights abuses and was a consequential political figure in Peru and possibly in his respective continent. Article does need quality work though. --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 12:35, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose on quality, far too many CNs and unsourced paragraphs throughout. I am glad to see a legacy section which helps towards supporting a blurb though I'm not sure its written in the way to make sure it presents him as, as TDKR Chicago says, "a notorious political figure", and should be retouched to try to strength that approach if we are going to post as a blurb. --Masem (t) 12:54, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Quality issues have been addressed in terms of sourcing. TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 21:05, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Yes, just looked through and see one "needs context" but that's not a show stopper. Can't easily edit my vote above right now but that's a support for RD, weak support on blurb (don't think we need the separate death article, and like to see that "criticism" section titled something else buy don't know what) — Masem (t) 22:36, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose on Quality per concerns mentioned previously. However, I really think Fujimori is the sort of person worthy of a death blurb at ITN. Impactful and controversial politician that had a heavy hand in shaping modern Peruvian politics and it's discord. The human rights abuse charges obviously stand as the massive events of his tenure as president, as well as the coup that got him in power. DarkSide830 (talk) 15:53, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Quality issues have been addressed in terms of sourcing from what I can see TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 21:07, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support blurb Man has an entire political ideology named after him and was the longtime president of a country. If that doesn't warrant a blurb for an RD than nothing should ever warrant a blurb for an RD. Scuba 16:19, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support blurb I would say that alternative blurb 2 should be posted Egg470 (talk) 16:57, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Using loaded terms is not for articles, let alone the main page.Sportsnut24 (talk) 00:34, 13 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support blurb Head of state of 30 million people for a full decade. Judicial issues about his presidency lasted for the rest of his life, so he hardly died quietly and remotely. See Fujimorism for how many parties claim his ideology or have had it attributed to them. Comments about whether his rule was democratic or pleasant are neither here nor there. Nobody can doubt that Putin and Assad have influenced the 21st century, for what many people would say was for the worse. Unknown Temptation (talk) 17:28, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • A Life Story As with the voice of Darth Vader, the body of Darth Vader or Big Van Vader himself, these are also past accomplishments. When most people think of "news", they think "current events". What's recently happened to Fujimori (the blurb you're voting on) is what happens to all of us, sooner or later. InedibleHulk (talk) 19:53, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    It's why ITN is about featuring quality articles that are in the news, not about featuring the news. That a (likely) great figure died, as reported in the news, and we have an article that is nearly there for quality and demonstrating the great figure-Ness, is exactly the reason to post. It just still has some quality issues to resolve first — Masem (t) 20:12, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    By the time this article's quality is even good enough to post, it won't be much in the news anymore. Then there's the two weeks or so it'll sit even staler on the Main Page after most editors figure there's no reason to improve it beyond passable. It might make his fandom happy for a day. InedibleHulk (talk) 20:39, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    The article appears to be well sourced now. With a quick look, there's no orange tags or cn tags/unsourced statements from what I can see. TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 21:07, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    As a nonfan (nor love-to-hater), that's happiness enough for one day for me; still can't support blurbing it on account of the two weeks or so it'll seem staler later; I'll Support Normal or Photo RD, though, on your word. InedibleHulk (talk) 21:55, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    [ideally a good it item that is due to an existing topic now being in the news (like RD blurbs) show already be close to high quality for posting and just needs a bit of intense polish withon 24hr to post it more timely. We've had RD blurbs before that were so far off the quality mark that posed a problem. Not the case here — Masem (t) 22:38, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Whatever you said, it doesn't sway me. InedibleHulk (talk) 23:33, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support blurb He's a household name. Even in my native Mauritius, everybody knows who he is. His rule has left quite a mark
  • Support blurb article seems ready. A democratically elected president, who becomes dictator after a self-coup, who is overthrown by Congress, is exiled in the country of his parents' origin, is convicted of crimes against humanity, is the patriarch of a nysaga of politicians and his pardon brings a lot of controversy is, without a doubt, a perfect candidate for his death to have blurb. _-_Alsor (talk) 22:37, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support blurb A notorious former president of a country. ArionStar (talk) 03:34, 13 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Blurb, if consensus on quality now exists. But not the alt blurbs: the "Death of..." article isn't fit for the main page. Moscow Mule (talk) 06:10, 13 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Death of Alberto Fujimori is open. —Bagumba (talk) 07:58, 13 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Consensus is clearlu on the side of keeping it. It should be closed now as the article has been greatly expanded since my first comment on the discussion.Sportsnut24 (talk) 08:25, 13 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The AfD boat has sailed, but don't go calling main-page attention to the article. Not when it contains gibberish like [B]ut the former President of Colombia Álvaro Uribe Vélez, expresses his condolences, adding to this said that "Fujimori recover to Peru". Moscow Mule (talk) 18:21, 14 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Fixed. No opinion on AfD or whether the death article should be linked or not. Natg 19 (talk) 19:20, 14 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Moscow Mule: Consensus can change in the blink of an eye, especially for contentious subject matter such as the death of an influential world leader. Kurtis (talk) 04:23, 15 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Dictator is a very loaded term to put on the main page as if this is a tabloid instead of an encyclopaedia. He was the president of peru.2A00:F3C:A282:0:E87A:BB26:4B74:D952 (talk) 02:14, 15 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
"Dictator" was removed per an WP:ERRORS discussion. Feel free to discuss a more nuanced wording, if relevant. —Bagumba (talk) 05:17, 15 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) Judicial reform bill in Mexico

[edit]
Article: 2024 Mexican judicial reform (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ The Congress of Mexico approves sweeping reforms of the country's judiciary after protestors storm the Senate chamber. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ Amid widespread protests, Mexico ratifies constitutional changes that will see the entire federal judiciary chosen by popular vote.
News source(s): Guardian, BBC News HRW
Credits:

Article updated

Senate chamber stormed; constitutional amendments criticized by HRW, etc., passed. Moscow Mule (talk) 17:25, 11 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

True on both counts. But the Senate was the major hurdle to overcome: the ruling coalition controls 27 (?) of the state congresses, so it's just a matter of time. And the storming of the Senate chamber is big news this morning, although its treatment in our articles is somewhat cursory. (Not going to be that guy who replies to every comment, I promise.) Moscow Mule (talk) 18:24, 11 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support Congrats to Mexico getting rid of it's independent judiciary, I look forward to seeing the backlash to their one-party state with an unchecked executive. Scu ba (talk) 21:17, 11 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The personalized commentary is unnecessary. The Kip (contribs) 06:05, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
OK, better. Senate storming is stale news now anyway, and its exposition here never got much further than cursory. But I'd link it as _federal judiciary_ in the alt blurb. Moscow Mule (talk) 06:21, 13 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Ok, fixed that Szmenderowiecki (talk) 09:42, 13 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support Quiet a big event that will have major effect on the country. The article's quality is sufficient. ਪ੍ਰਿੰਸ ਆਫ਼ ਪੰਜਾਬ (PrinceofPunjab | ਗੱਲਬਾਤ) 11:14, 14 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support: Has been signed into law and is a major constitutional reform that will have massive effects in Mexican politics. EchoLuminary (talk) 01:04, 16 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support Major change in the nation's legal system, and first all-elected judiciary in the world. This is notable enough for posting. Bremps... 05:48, 17 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support alt per above. Article looks good and the popular vote part is quite important. Aaron Liu (talk) 16:32, 17 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Admins willing to post ITN: needs a resolution. Natg 19 (talk) 01:17, 18 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Didier Roustan

[edit]
Article: Didier Roustan (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): L'Equipe, Le Monde (both in French)
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Died this morning, and article looks reasonable enough. Very little info on his death seems to be available right now. Joseph2302 (talk) 10:24, 11 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support meets bare minimum requirement. ਪ੍ਰਿੰਸ ਆਫ਼ ਪੰਜਾਬ (PrinceofPunjab | ਗੱਲਬਾਤ) 11:14, 14 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

September 10

[edit]
September 10, 2024 (2024-09-10) (Tuesday)

Armed conflicts and attacks

Disasters and accidents

  • The death toll from the capsizing of a migrant boat off the coast of Senegal over the weekend increases to 26 after the discovery of 17 more bodies. (Reuters)

International relations

Law and crime

Politics and elections

2024 Jordanian general election

[edit]
Article: 2024 Jordanian general election (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ The Islamic Action Front makes significant gains in the 2024 Jordanian general election which was won by a broad monarchist coalition (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ Due to discontent from the government's response to the Israel–Hamas war, the Muslim Brotherhood affiliated Islamic Action Front has the best showing of any Islamist party in Jordanian history during the 2024 Jordanian general election, which was won by a broad monarchist coalition
News source(s): NPRReuters
Credits:

The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.

Nominator's comments: A national election that deserves to be ITN per WP:ITN/R. The article isn't in the best shape though and could use some serious work. Just putting it in ITN to get editor's attention to the article. Scuba 13:31, 14 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose as the nominator said, article needs a bit work as there are now two orange tags. ਪ੍ਰਿੰਸ ਆਫ਼ ਪੰਜਾਬ (PrinceofPunjab | ਗੱਲਬਾਤ) 16:50, 15 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose Missing information and needs update tags. Bremps... 18:18, 15 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Jim Sasser

[edit]
Article: Jim Sasser (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The New York Times
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Senator from Tennessee Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 11:24, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose A big part of the article is unsourced. ਪ੍ਰਿੰਸ ਆਫ਼ ਪੰਜਾਬ (PrinceofPunjab | ਗੱਲਬਾਤ) 11:15, 14 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Emi Shinohara

[edit]
Article: Emi Shinohara (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Anime News Network, Nikkan Sports
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Voice of Sailor Jupiter, announced today. Page biography is sourced, but filmography will need to be sourced. ミラP@Miraclepine 01:21, 11 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support article is good to go. ਪ੍ਰਿੰਸ ਆਫ਼ ਪੰਜਾਬ (PrinceofPunjab | ਗੱਲਬਾਤ) 11:17, 14 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

September 9

[edit]
September 9, 2024 (2024-09-09) (Monday)

Armed conflicts and attacks

Business and economy

Disasters and accidents

International relations

Law and crime

(Posted) RD: Friedrich Schorlemmer

[edit]
Article: Friedrich Schorlemmer (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): ZDF
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

One of the people who made the the Peaceful Revolution in East Germany possible, said the German President. Don't miss the video in the source that shows some key events. - The article was mostly there but too many things were translated that were clearer in German, refs were lost, others needed expansions including finding their titles, - plenty of work, took some time. We added publications, more awards, more obits. Still room for more detail if you have time. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 16:13, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comment I like people, who have done so much for peace. Grimes2 (talk) 16:23, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support article is ready to be posted. ਪ੍ਰਿੰਸ ਆਫ਼ ਪੰਜਾਬ (PrinceofPunjab | ਗੱਲਬਾਤ) 11:17, 14 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Raja Petra Kamarudin

[edit]
Article: Raja Petra Kamarudin (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The Star
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Tofusaurus (talk) 03:57, 10 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose needs a bit of work in the sourcing department. ਪ੍ਰਿੰਸ ਆਫ਼ ਪੰਜਾਬ (PrinceofPunjab | ਗੱਲਬਾਤ) 11:18, 14 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(RD posted) Blurb/RD: James Earl Jones

[edit]
Closing again, still no consensus. --Tone 20:15, 16 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Proposed image
Article: James Earl Jones (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination
Blurb:  American actor James Earl Jones (pictured) dies at the age of 93 (Post)
News source(s): Variety
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Masem (t) 20:52, 9 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Updated Kcmastrpc (talk) 12:22, 11 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Extended discussion of the significance of such statistics
  • One wonders what difference posting to Main page will cause to number of views? What's the usual effect? Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 10:28, 10 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    For one RD post, Eric Sievers, he died on April 10, was posted to RD on April 14, and received ~7,000 more views that day after trending down the previous days.[3] Not sure about the effect of a blurb, or a pictured blurb. —Bagumba (talk) 10:54, 10 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Many thanks. I was thinking more of someone like this. Martinevans123 (talk) 11:13, 10 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    That's harder to gauge when there's 100s of thousands of views to know what's the "natural" traffic vs. the RD effect. There's the natural dropoff of views with each passing day. With a less popular one like Sievers, it's easy to see the bump when it took a few days to post. —Bagumba (talk) 12:30, 10 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Actually, there's click data for Wikipedia at m:Research:Wikipedia_clickstream. In the month of June, it shows Main_Page Donald_Sutherland other 44467. **If** I'm reading it correctly, there was 44,467 clicks from the Main Page to Sutherland's page, presumably all from the RD post. It was up for ~40 hours, which works out to ~27,000 views/day. —Bagumba (talk) 13:04, 10 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Thanks for discovering this as it's another good source of evidence. Trying this out, I looked at July's stats. For a given article, you can see where the traffic came from. The following is a list of prominent RD/blurbs during July and the percentage of traffic that came from the main page, i.e. ITN.
    Toumani Diabaté = 42%
    Nguyễn Phú Trọng = 31% (the one person that got a blurb)
    Ray Reardon = 14%
    John Mayall = 7.8%
    Edna O'Brien = 2.96%
    Shelley Duvall = 1.87%
    Bob Newhart = 0.99%
    William Calley = 0.98%
    Richard Simmons = 0.73%
    Prince Michael of Greece and Denmark = 0.55%
    So, in most such cases, it appears that ITN has little effect in driving traffic. From the comparative data, it seems that the Deaths in July 2024 often drove more traffic.
    Andrew🐉(talk) 17:20, 10 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    The caveat is that those are monthly totals, and an items says on RD for say 1–3 days out of 30, and popular people obviously get more traffic independent of RD. But the beauty and curse of statistics is that small percentages of a large volume is still thousands or tens of thousands of clicks. For example, depending on the desired narrative, a company of 10,000 that laid off 100 people can said to have "only had a 1% reduction" vs "terminated 100 workers". —Bagumba (talk) 01:13, 11 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Indeed. When using statistics, what you want are the big numbers, not the small ones. By looking at our readership stats, you can see whether a story is attracting millions of views or just a few thousand. This seems to be a more objective measure than a poll of the tiny number of editors that show up here. Andrew🐉(talk) 06:55, 11 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    We do not care about page views here, again. Nor are page views any indication about whether we should post a blurb (that would make it a popularity game and that's a disservice to the main page) — Masem (t) 11:57, 10 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    So if someone dies Sunday and their page gets 100,000 views on Monday and Tuesday... then their RD gets posted to Main page on Wednesday, and the page gets 50,000 views for the rest of the week.... That's all just irrelevant? ITN/RD is still worth all the effort? (I guess this question should really be discussed at ITN Talk). Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 12:04, 10 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    If that were the case, then we'd close blurbs and RDs within 2 days because what's the point then? We'd like to make sure things are timely, but we also need to make sure all aspects are met before posting, and thus we have the 7 day period for candidates to be considered. We're not here to make sure the most popular news stories are being pushed to the ITN box, but to showcase quality articles that are in the news, if that happens to be someone popular that brings a lot of views from the main page, great, but its by no means any rational we have to post something. Consider that probably the bulk of those million views for JEJ were well before RD was posted, so it is not like readers cannot find their way to that article without ITN's help. Masem (t) 12:16, 10 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    We might close them if monitoring of page views was an agreed part of the process? Martinevans123 (talk) 12:22, 10 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    We shouldn't be worried at all about page views; certainly none of the other Main Page sections worry about this. We want to feature any quality WP content - with the situation that it should have been in the news recently (7 days). That's it. Whether that drives people to read those articles is out of our control once posted, but we do know there's typically a bump, however small, because of being shown on the main page, means that we're meeting our job. Hence why aspects like popularity or page views should not be any type of driver for posting an item, not to mention the general aspect of fighting systematic bias. Masem (t) 12:43, 10 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Is there systematic bias for posting American actors with whom UK editors are largely unfamiliar? Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 12:58, 10 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    The systematic bias is two part here, one being American, and two being a celebrity, both areas where there is disproportionate news coverage. It's why this blurb and several of the comments make it feel like a popularity contest. We should worry about "not famous in country X" comments, since that type of argument is discouraged in addition to our goal of trying to show a diverse array of topics (it's like that French actor from a few weeks ago, perhaps only a household name in France but demonstrated all the right factors for blurb posting, just never got quality improved) Masem (t) 13:29, 10 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    No, I meant simply that because there are more American !voters here, American actors will tend to get more support for a blurb. Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 13:34, 10 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Which is still a systematic bias we should try to overcome. Masem (t) 13:37, 10 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    (not that editors ever have to disclose their nationality; and I personally have no idea of the percentage nationality split between all editors) Martinevans123 (talk) 13:39, 10 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    No, there is hardly any. We didn't post blurbs even of such well-known actors as Kirk Douglas, Donald Sutherland, William Hurt, Gena Rowlands, Lauren Bacall, Eli Wallach, Harry Dean Stanton, Louis Gosset, Jr., Martin Landau. Except Dean Stanton all actors in the list had an Oscar. BilboBeggins (talk) 16:26, 10 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Note that, on day 2, the readership of his article has gone up and is still over a million. This will not be because of the RD posting, which will have barely made the needle twitch. It's more likely due to the impact of tributes and follow-ups across the global media which tend to follow the death of a major figure. You don't usually see this pattern for ordinary deaths which typically have an initial spike and then a steep decline.
And note that these numbers are huge compared to everything else on Wikipedia. If you look at the top read articles, then Jones is way out in front with 1.35 million while the #2 is Cecilia Hart with just 197K. And why is she #2? That's because she was Jones' wife! You have to go to #3 to find a different topic and that just got 166K views.
Andrew🐉(talk) 07:15, 11 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • RD posted Blurb discussion can continue.—Bagumba (talk) 11:00, 10 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose blurb Decent actor? Yes. Transformative? No. I really don't like to criticise other editor's reasoning, but let's be clear here - Kirk Douglas didn't get a blurb because "old man dies". Is Jones on a higher level? I really don't want to mention the Carrie Fisher effect here, but - oops, sorry. But really, how many non-Star Wars fans outside the US would even know who he was? Black Kite (talk) 12:16, 10 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I'd agree, except for the fact that his career stems back to 1965 and, per the article, he's been recognised as a pioneer for African Americans in stage and film. Promethean (talk) 12:27, 10 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    He lived a long life and continued to work into his dotage. I don't think that's all that unusual when it comes to notable film actors. There are hundreds of notable screen stars working right now whose careers span 50+ years. Donald Sutherland's career stretched back to the 1960s too but it didn't make him blurb-worthy. James Earl Jones' screen career did start during the civil rights era in the United States, but I don't think it's enough. In contrast to Sidney Poitier (whose death we blurbed), he was not a notable star at that time, he wasn't closely associated with activism and he isn't known for any major firsts as an African-American actor. Humbledaisy (talk) 12:42, 10 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    He was a second Black actor go get nominated for Oscar. BilboBeggins (talk) 20:21, 10 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Well yes, that's my point exactly - not a first. Humbledaisy (talk) 15:02, 11 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    The changes do not happen immediately, he can be regarded as first Black actor to have achieved that much success on stage. And he was active at the same time as Poitier, so they both contributed. BilboBeggins (talk) 19:13, 11 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Loads of actors have careers of many decades, I'm not seeing that as something blurb-worthy. And "being a pioneer for African Americans" is sourced to an obituary. I'd be far more likely to take that seriously if I could see RS saying that from when he was still alive. Black Kite (talk) 14:43, 10 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    In a 1998 interview, [Denzel] Washington said, “There weren’t a lot of serious Black actors for us to emulate, to follow, to admire. There was Sidney [Poitier]; it was James Earl Jones on stage. That’s what I remember.”[4]
    Washington said this in 1998, long before 2024. BilboBeggins (talk) 20:37, 10 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Alain Delon didn't even get an RD. This is just american cultural imperialism Varoon2542 (talk) 12:52, 14 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    The thing is that, Star Wars is worlwide phenomenon, and the set of Non-Star Wars fans is not large, even outside of US. And the set of people who don't know about Star Wars is even smaller. There will be few people who don't know who Dart Vader is. BilboBeggins (talk) 16:21, 10 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    He was dubbed. Most of us haven't heard his voice and you're over estimating Star Wars' notability outside the West Varoon2542 (talk) 12:55, 14 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support blurb EGOT recipient is a very rare achievement and signifies the pinnacle of the entertainment industry. In addition, the subject is known for portraying several iconic characters that are universally known worldwide. Blurb is warranted.
    RachelTensions (talk) 13:32, 10 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • A little late to the party here, but support blurb - the man was/is a household name with several worldwide famous roles and characters under his belt. He's extremely well known not only in the acting scene, but in popular culture overall. Rest in peace. - Bucket of sulfuric acid (talk | contribs) 13:49, 10 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Not a household name. He was dubbed Varoon2542 (talk) 12:56, 14 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose blurb he wasn't Olivier. Sheila1988 (talk) 15:45, 10 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    He was a Shakespearean actor and won an award for playing Othello, just like Olivier. What's the difference? Andrew🐉(talk) 17:09, 10 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Olivier was white? (until be blacked up, of course)... Martinevans123 (talk) 17:23, 10 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Alain Delon didn't get an RD, most indian celebrities don't either. You are playing the race card when it's just an nth example of american cultural imperialism Varoon2542 (talk) 12:58, 14 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    What a trite question. Olivier was one of three who dominated British stage acting in the C20th, before moving into theatre management by setting up and running the National Theatre. That’s transformation and a good reason for a blurb, not just for being famous because he voiced Darth Vader. - SchroCat (talk) 18:36, 10 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose blurb. RD is more than enough here we go again. He was a very popular actor, but not transformative, he did not mark a milestone in the history of American entertainment. Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, not the New York Times. _-_Alsor (talk) 17:26, 10 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    What does "transformative" mean? Who is an example of a "transformative" actor, or someone who marked a milestone? Natg 19 (talk) 17:46, 10 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Laurence Olivier mentioned in the comment just above. —  AjaxSmack  19:28, 10 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Besides the fact that we aren't supposed to be doing x vs y arguments for death blurbs, why exactly was Olivier so much more important than Jones? DarkSide830 (talk) 19:46, 10 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Again, see the comments above about one being transformative and the other not. - SchroCat (talk) 22:26, 10 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    You seem to have explained why Olivier was noteworthy enough, but reducing Jones's impact to one acting credit seems to almost completely diminish his larger body of work. DarkSide830 (talk) 22:49, 10 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I have done nothing of the sort. A number of people voting for a blurb have done exactly that, ironically enough. - SchroCat (talk) 04:29, 11 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    That's...exactly what you said in response to the previous vote. You said Jones was notable explicitly just because he voiced Vader. DarkSide830 (talk) 18:06, 11 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    ”You said Jones was notable explicitly just because he voiced Vader”: that’s just not true. JEJ was a notable actor because of his entire career (that’s just obvious); it’s an outright lie to say I have only said he was notable because he played Vader. - SchroCat (talk) 18:54, 11 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    1 Acadamy Award, 3 Emmys, a Golden Globe, a Grammy, a SAG, and 3 Tonys plus a plethora of second tier awards. I'd say he was in the same league as Olivier. -Ad Orientem (talk) 23:36, 10 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Then you don’t understand what Olivier’s impact was. Aside from dominating the British stage for much of the twentieth century, he was a formidable producer and director. He worked to set up the National Theatre and then ran in, and completely changed theatre in the UK. That’s what a transformative figure does. I see nothing in JEJ’s article that suggests he was transformative. - SchroCat (talk) 04:29, 11 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Blurb. Titan in his field, long career with an EGOT to boot. You want transformative? How about the fame he got from one of the most famous VA roles ever as Vader? Probably one of the first to achieve that level of fame in an off-screen acting role. Seems pretty slam-dunk to me. DarkSide830 (talk) 19:27, 10 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    • Oppose blurb Very famous for his voice acting roles of Mufasa and Darth Vader but was not transformative in his field.
    Noah, BSBATalk 22:48, 10 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Blurb Anyone with an EGOT merits serious consideration. Even if his "O" in the EGOT was noncompetitive, the fact that he voiced Darth Vader and had notable roles in critically acclaimed films such as Field of Dreams, The Lion King and Cry, the Beloved Country puts him over the top for me. --Pats2017 (talk) 00:53, 11 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Leaning support blurb. I just wanted to comment that I don't think WP:OLDMANDIES is applicable here. While the subject was indeed "old", he was not long-retired and out of the spotlight. He appeared in both live-action and voice roles in the 2020s, and his voice continues to be used by an agreement reached before his death. I also do think that his success as an American black actor beginning in the 1960s is inherently more transformative than that of non-minority actors in the same time period. BD2412 T 03:34, 11 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support blurb - This is not about his two widely-known voice acting roles. This is about a long and distinguished career on stage and screen, his role as a trailblazer for African-American actors (qv Denzel quote above), and his overall stature in the field. GenevieveDEon (talk) 08:49, 11 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose blurb not even close to being in the same league as Alain Delon, whom we did not post. So no, definitely not blurb worthy. 2A02:8071:6362:54A0:E829:76AA:FD43:F219 (talk) 11:02, 11 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Main reason why Alain Delon was not blurbed was due to the article quality being bad/not in good enough shape for posting to be fair. Jones's article is in better quality. Also not a fan of "x didn't get blurbed so neither should y" rationale. TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 12:29, 11 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    There was consensus leaning to not blurbing Delon back then and there is consensus leaning to blurbing James Earl Jones now.
    It's not that I agreed with the arguments for not blurbing Delon, because there was evidence of him being transformative in the article, but the discussion on that ended and the main problem was that it couldn't even be posted to RD. BilboBeggins (talk) 14:46, 11 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Well, if this is going to end up being blurbed and we are going to make the Carrie Fisher mistake a second time, does anyone want to explain the rationale? Most of the votes here are just "he was Darth Vader, duh!" or "He was very famous" and those strike me as very weak arguments. I've seen very little genuine rationale for a blurb in this discussion aside from the Denzel Washington quote. That doesn't seem enough - it could be said of several other actors, more strongly Sidney Poitier who we previously blurbed - and, as I mentioned before, JEJ was not a notable star during the Civil Rights era, he wasn't closely associated with civil rights or activism and he isn't known for any major firsts as an African-American actor. Humbledaisy (talk) 15:42, 11 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    There's a similar Denzel quote already in the article. Not sure which is the more notable. Martinevans123 (talk) 16:40, 11 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    The mistake will be not to blurb him.
    Could you give rationale why Poitier was bigger than Janes Earl Jone? In last twenty years of his life Poitier was not active except for occasional Oscar ceremony appearances. And before that his only significant, or blockbuster role in another twenty years or so was being third-billed role in Jackal.
    One of the rationale was that he got theatre named during his lifetime. BilboBeggins (talk) 19:17, 11 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    “If you were an actor or aspired to be an actor, if you pounded the payment in these streets looks for jobs, one of the standards we always had was to be a James Earl Jones," — this is from no other than Samuel L. Jackson.
    “The first play that I saw was ‘Fences,’” said Tony-winning director Kenny Leon of Jones’ performance in Wilson’s seminal American play. “I was a country boy from Tallahassee, Florida, came here as a National Endowment for the Arts fellow, and I saw ‘Fences.’ It changed the directory of my professional life.”
    "Of the theater luminaries in attendance, including Brian Stokes Mitchell, LaChanze, Norm Lewis and playwright Suzan-Lori Parks, many reflected on Jones’ indelible influence on their careers" — from Variety on opening of the theatre [5]. BilboBeggins (talk) 19:22, 11 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • After bringing this up with Tone, who previously closed it, I'm BOLDly re-opening this nom. Just believe it was closed a tad early and do believe we may have been close to consensus with a little more debate. [Admins, feel free to smite me for doing this as an involved editor, but I really believe more dicsussion is worthwhile. DarkSide830 (talk) 15:13, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Post-reopening support + blurb Globally known voice. Obviously, we would prefer not to be in touch with the rest of the world, but we can't always get it our own navel-gazing way. SerialNumber54129 16:38, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support blurb: Any EGOT-winning actor who has married two women who played Desdemona to his Othello deserves a blurb. This could be an ITN/R rule. :) -- SashiRolls 🌿 · 🍥 17:44, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support blurb His roles in Star Wars, Field of Dreams & The Lion King, his awards & what’s written in the “Death and legacy” section make me think he merits a blurb. Blaylockjam10 (talk) 20:52, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose blurb His voice is recognisable in the English speaking world but he was dubbed in local languages albeit in his style. Otherwise, his name and identity are relatively obscur. This is not a fan page— Preceding unsigned comment added by Varoon2542 (talk • contribs) 22:33, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • First of all, I'm happy to see this discussion was reopened. I think it was a very poor decision to close it.

Going through the discussion, I see many reasons to blurb, including:

1) Major/iconic figure in the field. 2) EGOT recipient (even though one of his awards was noncompetitive, such recipients are still generally recognized as having an EGOT). 3) Pioneer for the Black community in acting. 4) Death is making international headlines. 5) Internationally recognizable voice 6) He was Darth Vader

I don't see the last two arguments as valid; they hinge on one or two roles (Vader & CNN bumper voice) so I'm discounting their weight

Reasons opposed to blurbing:

1) Not significant/transformative enough 2) Poitier was an earlier pioneer--I can see a case for these. 3) He's not worldwide--somewhat of a stretch considering the reach of the Star Wars franchise & CNN but I'll concede it. 4) Not on par with a world leader 5) We're an encyclopedia, not The New York Times 6) We're not a fan page These are weak rationales. We've always blurbed the occasional entertainer, all encyclopedias include articles on cultural/entertainment figures, and despite what some people seem to think we've never limited death blurbs to world leaders. 7) He's only known for Vader. Not true, he won many awards for other roles. 8) If we didn't blurb X, then we shouldn't blurb James Earl Jones. Not necessarily true. We've made poor decisions not to blurb someone in the past; doesn't mean we should repeat the mistake.

Either way, whether counting all !votes (by my count 36-18 in favor of blurbing) or just the votes that are more compelling arguments (33-10 for a blurb), there's a supermajority of at least 2-1 to blurb James Earl Jones. While I know there's no "hard number" for making a determination, this certainly seems to me like a consensus to blurb. --Pats2017 (talk) 01:34, 13 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  • Comment A few opposers seem to have argued contrary to WP:ITNRDBLURB's we didn't post Bill Jones, so we cannot post Susie Johnson examples to avoid.—Bagumba (talk) 15:39, 13 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment Also a few !votes counter to WP:ITNCDONT's Oppose an item just because the event is only relating to a single country ...—Bagumba (talk) 15:56, 13 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support blurb. Clearly a massively significant and well-known figure. Whether we like it or not, this subject is many times more 'in the news' than an attempted jailbreak in the Democratic Republic of the Congo. BeanieFan11 (talk) 16:12, 13 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose blurb: Stale. Happened five days ago; has already had its run on the RD ticker. Moscow Mule (talk) 16:24, 14 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    The oldest current blurb is older. DarkSide830 (talk) 16:46, 14 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Yes, but in terms of RDs, this is now clearly stale and now making it a blurb would be stretching the point of the ITN box. Outside of a few articles talking about his voice and AI within Star Wars, I'm not seeing any more recent articles related strictly to his death more than two days old. Masem (t) 17:08, 14 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    It's not stale, but people are determined to Carrie Fisher it into a blurb. There does seem to be a massive over-inflation of his influence, for an actor who was not well-known (apart from being DV's voice) outside the US. But that's demographics for you. Black Kite (talk) 17:47, 14 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Of course, every 4th of July for the past decade or so, you could watch him on DN! reading Frederick Douglass ... -- SashiRolls 🌿 · 🍥 18:01, 14 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Incorrect. Per WP:ITN:

    Any event that is older than the oldest entry in the current "In the News" box is considered stale.

    The last blurb is currently from 31 August, while Jones died on 9 Sept. —Bagumba (talk) 17:07, 14 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I don't think the author had RDs already posted for four days in mind there. InedibleHulk (talk) 17:16, 14 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    But this denotes a 4-gone conclusion: Tis a shrewd doubt, though it be a dream. (Othello 3:3) -- SashiRolls 🌿 · 🍥 17:28, 14 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Nerds, birds and Shakespeare were meant to be misunderstood. But as some relatively modern bard helpfully clarified, Recent Deaths are considered separate from standard blurbs for this purpose. "This purpose" being that one (forsooth). InedibleHulk (talk) 17:35, 14 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    'Tis what thou Forefathers wrote. —Bagumba (talk) 18:02, 14 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment. For me, blurbing Fuhimori, who not many knew and not blurbing James Earl Jones, who is worldwide known does not make much sense. Earl Jones made more impact in the world. Arguments against blurb are not convincing — they involve WP:ITNCDONT, some are oldmandies. But we do post old people's deaths, see Prince Phillip, Deepak Kumar, Henry Kissinger, former Chinese leader. Some opposes say that being voice of characters is not enough, but he did not only do that. And some users asked for praise and evidence of being transformative in reliable sources before death, which I demonstrated, many said that he inspired and influenced them. BilboBeggins (talk) 06:21, 16 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I don't think your demonstration passed a threshold for inclusion (speaking solely for me); everyone's line will be different, but for me he wasn't transformative enough to warrant a blurb. When you discount the straightforward fanboy voting ('but he was Vader' or 'but he was famous'), there just isn't a consensus to post. ITN isn't about blurbing people because people have heard of them (thus why Fuhimori was blurbed), but because of their impact, and JEJ wasn't transformative in my book. - SchroCat (talk) 06:36, 16 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Not true. I went over this in my post above. Discounting both fanboy votes ("but he was Vader") and poorly reasoned oppose votes ("old man dies"/"not a head of state"/"death not notable"/"we didn't blurb X so we can't blurb JEJ") there was a clear consensus to post (it was 33-10 in favor/34-10 now...I'm not counting the "stale" vote because at the time of that post it's wasn't stale). I'm not sure how 33-10 isn't consensus to post. Just counting !votes actually was more favorable to the "oppose" verdict, but it was still 2:1 in support of posting.
    That's also not considering the discussion was closed for a day--an inexplicable decision based on how the consensus was beginning to break toward supporting a death blurb. At the time, it was about 29-9 reasoned voting; 32-16 ! votes.
    It's about to go stale, so I don't expect it to be posted now. And to be fair, while I supported blurbing James Earl Jones he's nowhere near the top of my favorite actors list, so I'm calling this as I see it. This ITN item was poorly handled. I think it's worth a discussion on the Talk Page, or wherever the proper forum would be. Pats2017 (talk) 13:13, 16 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Strawmen arguments. Consensus is not reached by vote counting. Your final para speaks volumes about the desire for people voting out of a desire to see a favourite actor blurbed, rather than someone who was transformational. I liked JEJ as an actor, but he wasn't transformational, which is why (in my eye at least) he shouldn't have been blurbed. I suspect we'll see exactly the same situation when Harrison Ford dies too (like him a lot, appears in lots of iconic roles, but not transformational at all: but I'll put money on fanboy voting to get him a blurb). - SchroCat (talk) 15:28, 16 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Not a straw man argument at all. In fact, what you're doing is arguing for your opposition to be a Supervote. Though there was a clear consensus to post, you want your own personal opinion to carry more weight than everybody else's. Not sure how nearly more than 75% of the votes wouldn't be a consensus, unless SchroCat's outweighs everybody else's.
    This was a botched process. It never should've been closed to Tone in the first place, and it reeks of Supervoting among admins. Pats2017 (talk) 15:43, 16 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    What a rather strange and misguided comment. Rather obviously, I am not asking for anything of the sort. You, however, have vote counted and expect a result on that basis (see WP:Consensus and WP:NOTDEMOCRACY for more information).
    Nor was it a botched process. It was a reasonable close at the time, and reopened less than 24 hours later. No admin or anyone else has supervoted here, despite your rather hyperbolic claims to the contrary. - SchroCat (talk) 16:10, 16 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Nowhere have I said that vote count is the only thing that matters. In fact, I discounted many support votes. Given the overall quality of arguments AND the way they split, I find it hard for you to argue that consensus was not achieved. Just like we don't count up the votes, we also don't ignore voting. You still haven't explained how a consensus was not achieved, when it was closed with so many in support of a blurb. Hard to see how that's not a Supervote. Pats2017 (talk) 16:24, 16 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Actually we do ignore voting. We don't ignore !voting (which means a good rationale based on the policies and guidelines of the site). There wasn't a clear consensus to post once the fanboy votes were (legitimately) ignored. That's not a supervote, and it's a shoddy accusation to throw at the admins. - SchroCat (talk) 16:54, 16 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I didn't count the fanboy votes, which you've repeatedly failed to acknowledge. Even limiting the vote to only those with a good rationale based on the policies and guidelines of the site, there was a consensus of !votes to blurb JEJ. For you to say there wasn't a consensus means you think some !votes carry more weight than others, which is effectively a Supervote.
    If you don't want Supervote accusations thrown at the admins, then the admins shouldn't make decisions that give off the appearance of a Supervote. Pats2017 (talk) 17:32, 16 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Again you're counting how many people have commented, rather than weighing the arguments for and against, which is how you get to a consensus. There's a huge difference that a relative newbie can't or won't understand.
    No admin—or indeed any editor—has done anything even remotely similar to making a supervote. If you think they have, take it to ANI with evidence. I know you won't, because you can't: it's just emotive bs to try and swing the mind of the closer. - SchroCat (talk) 17:52, 16 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    You just said we don't ignore !voting, and I reinforced that I did not. You still fail to acknowledge that. You seem to think that some good rationales are better than others, which is effectively a Supervote.
    As for your second comment, I'm not trying to swing anyone. I've accepted that the chances of posting this are remote. Not every potential ITN blurb I've supported has been posted, while some blurbs I was opposed to were posted. That's Wikipedia life.
    But it doesn't mean I can't weigh in when I think a decision was egregiously incorrect. Happy to take it to ANI.
    I'm sorry that this is such a upsetting conversation for you. I've explained myself multiple times, and your emotive demeanor is becoming angrier and angrier at a relative newbie. Remember not to bite the newbies. That's also a policy a relative veteran such as yourself should know. Pats2017 (talk) 18:09, 16 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    "You seem to think that some good rationales are better than others, which is effectively a Supervote": as I've already explained, some rationales are better than others (one based on policies and guidelines will always trump a "because he's famous vote", for example). That's not a supervote - I don't think you understand what that actually means in practical terms
    Go ahead and open the thread at ANI then. It's an empty threat whether you do or don't - there has not been any supervoting here by anyone at any stage, as I've pointed out to you several times now.
    There's nothing upsetting about this conversation for me, and I am being neither emotive, angry or bitey. How on earth you think you could possibly know that is a mystery, but it's a series of untruthful claims you've made. Maybe focus on your arguments, rather than other editors in future? - SchroCat (talk) 18:29, 16 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I am focusing on my arguments. As I've already explained, there were many good rationales, based on policies and guidelines. At no point have I ever stated that "because he's famous" was a valid rationale. You continue to invoke arguments I'm not using--a straw man argument--to try to validate that the arguments you choose are better than anyone else's, even if they are outweighed by other !votes in both number and rationale, which is effectively a Supervote.
    I'm also not threatening anything. I'm stating an opinion. That's not a threat, it's an opinion . Pats2017 (talk) 18:44, 16 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    You are mixing your arguments up with untruthful comments about me, as is clear in the final paragraph of this comment. You don't have a clue about my demeanour, so please stop.
    Yet again you misunderstand what a supervote is. Please read WP:SUPERVOTE and stop throwing the term around so blithely. The use of the term suggests that an admin has behaved indecorously, when that is untrue. If you think it is so, then crack on with the ANI thread, otherwise stop throwing round untruthful accusations. - SchroCat (talk) 19:09, 16 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    You as well are making untruthful comments about me; to wit, saying that I engage in "emotive bs."
    I have indeed read WP:SUPERVOTE, long before this string began in fact. I stand by my opinion that closing the James Earl Jones blurb proposal was essentially a supervote. You're free to disagree with me. Disagreements happen all the time. This is Wikipedia. Pats2017 (talk) 19:25, 16 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    So you’re accusing Tone, an Admin, of conduct unbecoming by making a supervote? Thats a big accusation: take it to ANI before you are reported there for incivility for making false accusations. - SchroCat (talk) 19:39, 16 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    We can't be sure about the motivation, otherwise we could suggest that oppose votes were driven by dislike of the character.
    Isn't it how we derive decision, we base it on discussion and on consensus. And yes, the amount of votes also gives us impression of how community views him and how notable he is for being put on main page. BilboBeggins (talk) 16:28, 16 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    That's one of the most bizarre comments I've ever seen: Oppose votes were driven by people's dislike of one character he voiced in a long career? That's just ridiculous! And no, his notability is what guarantees his article and either an RD or a blurb. You don't get a blurb for somehow being 'super-notable', or some other false claim. - SchroCat (talk) 16:54, 16 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Though I agree with blurbing Jones, it is laughable to me to say that he made more impact in the world. An actor typically has less impact than a world leader, such as a president. I personally have not heard of Fujimori, but president of Peru is a bigger impact than a great actor. Natg 19 (talk) 06:56, 16 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Why do we consider this straightforward fanboy voting? If we discount votes, we need to discount votes with argumentation against the rules, like being an acting head of state is not required for blurb, Oldmandies link leads to discussion without consensus for this item and is without a closure. BilboBeggins (talk) 12:34, 16 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Fu[j]imori, who not many knew and ... James Earl Jones, who is worldwide known. I don't think either of those claims is accurate. Fujimori was massive news throughout his presidency in the 1990s and (fall from grace, conviction, imprisonment, daughter running for president three times) over the following 2½ decades. But as Wikipedia:Systemic bias says, "Wikipedia underrepresents the perspectives of people in the Global South". Moscow Mule (talk) 16:46, 16 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Alberto Fujimori is a household name across the world, Earl Jones isn't known outside the US. He was dubbed and even those who dubbed his characters aren't particularly celebrated for that
    The fact that you're minimising the impact of a president whose legacy still lingers in South America to an actor known for two voice acting, is quite telling Varoon2542 (talk) 20:11, 16 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Blurb While I have no further light to shed, I believe the above arguments for the blurb/transformative are compelling to support a blurb here. @DarkSide830:, you did the right thing reopening this. Whether this gets blurbed or not, it’s good to achieve solid consensus and this provided such needed opportunity for discussion. DrewieStewie (talk) 15:23, 16 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment I believe that there's a consensus to blurb this and seeing how the two oldest ITN items predates Jones's death, I don't think there's a reason not to blurb this asap. It'd be a real shame if this didn't get blurbed because it got stale due to a long wait. --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 17:15, 16 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Another six hours debating time remaining? Martinevans123 (talk) 17:55, 16 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Not just stale and not just a recent death, but a recent death which has already rolled off the RD carousel (where it belonged) for several days. He was 93 and an American actor (sometimes pictured). What's the point in anybody who didn't know this last Monday finding out today? InedibleHulk (talk) 19:17, 16 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Another 7 days needed to properly debate the (potential) inclusion of the name "Darth Vader" in a blurb? Martinevans123 (talk) 19:24, 16 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    The only true Vader is Big Van Vader and anyone telling me otherwise is a potentially harmful Contrarian. InedibleHulk (talk) 19:32, 16 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • A decision was already made not to post this. At least twice. No confidence it won't just be reopened again if it's passed over a third time. Just let it roll off when the bot archives it. —Cryptic 19:26, 16 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    That's one closure and one removal of a needless tag (admins should be the only ones adding these tags IMO). DarkSide830 (talk) 19:39, 16 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

September 8

[edit]
September 8, 2024 (2024-09-08) (Sunday)

Armed conflicts and attacks

Arts and culture

Disasters and accidents

Law and crime

Politics and elections

Sports

(Ready) RD: Ben Thapa

[edit]
Article: Ben Thapa (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Telegraph, the Independent, RTE, Metro
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: English singer, member of G4. Article looks adequate. Ollieisanerd (talk • contribs) 15:50, 10 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support: article looks OK; Metro isn't a great source for notability/news coverage but also reported in Telegraph, the Independent and RTE. UndercoverClassicist T·C 16:29, 10 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Wait Early life section needs more sources otherwise the article meets bare minimum requirement. ਪ੍ਰਿੰਸ ਆਫ਼ ਪੰਜਾਬ (PrinceofPunjab | ਗੱਲਬਾਤ) 11:23, 14 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support @Admins willing to post ITN: It looks like the article has enough details & references. Blaylockjam10 (talk) 20:40, 15 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Ed Kranepool

[edit]
Article: Ed Kranepool (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): CBS Sports, AP News
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Former first baseman for the New York Mets. 240F:7A:6253:1:6C33:5504:7A1B:88BA (talk) 02:50, 10 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose several paragraphs are lacking any sort of citation. ਪ੍ਰਿੰਸ ਆਫ਼ ਪੰਜਾਬ (PrinceofPunjab | ਗੱਲਬਾਤ) 11:24, 14 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Ana Gervasi

[edit]
Article: Ana Gervasi (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Infobae
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Article updated and well sourced --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 09:19, 9 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support article is in a good enough shape. ਪ੍ਰਿੰਸ ਆਫ਼ ਪੰਜਾਬ (PrinceofPunjab | ਗੱਲਬਾਤ) 11:00, 9 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

US Open Tennis

[edit]
Article: Jannik Sinner (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ In tennis, Jannik Sinner (men's singles) and Aryna Sabalenka (women's singles) win the 2024 US Open. (Post)
News source(s): CNN, CNN (for Sabalenka)
Credits:

The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.

Both articles are GAs, and US Open wins (men's and women's posted together) are covered by ITNR. Not sure how to do it with two pictures -- I assume in practice we would alternate them? UndercoverClassicist T·C 06:19, 9 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  • In practice, both images will be combined into one, and the combined one will be used. – robertsky (talk) 07:56, 9 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose. The article for this news story and the ITN/R candodate is not the bios of the winners, but the tournament article 2024 US Open (tennis). And this is not remotely up to scratch. No prose summaries of the events at all.  — Amakuru (talk) 09:15, 9 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Obviously we should do more work on the U.S. Open article itself, but the fact that we have not one but both of the winners' articles at GA status means I'd love if we could find a way to highlight them as well. DecafPotato (talk) 09:51, 9 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose the WP:ITNR item is the event 2024 US Open (tennis), and that article is nowhere near WP:ITNQUALITY. It needs a substantial amount of prose added to it before meeting ITNQUALITY. The 2 player articles have only a few sentences about this tournament, and so should not be used as the bold links in order to circumnavigate the inadequacy of the 2024 US Open (tennis) article, and the player articles are not ITNR. Joseph2302 (talk) 10:02, 9 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I must admit, this line of argument seems overly procedural to me -- yes, a nomination for the US Open article would have quality issues, but running the the players' articles gives us the chance update ITN with an unquestionably noteworthy event and to direct readers to two of our better articles. I don't see any guidance in WP:ITNR as to precisely which article needs to be nominated: as I read it, it's the event that has consensus to be posted, not a specific article. UndercoverClassicist T·C 10:28, 9 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    No it isn't "overly procedural". The ITNR is for showcasing the event 2024 US Open (tennis), and putting 2 articles about people that have around 1 paragraph about that event doesn't achieve this. WP:ITNR lists the event as recurring, so the event article needs to meet WP:ITNQUALITY. The solution to avoid any more discussion would be to fix the event article, because like almost all tennis articles nominated here, it has zero prose text about the events. Joseph2302 (talk) 10:38, 9 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    WP:ITNSPORTS reads Generally, the specific event article for that year/time period is the target article in the blurb ... —Bagumba (talk) 13:12, 15 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose lead article(s) listed in the nomination are wrong as mentioned above. The tournament is the INTR item and not the winners. The main tournament article is no way near ready to be posted. There are all tables and scores but very little prose. I would suggest the nominator to check out the 2024 French Open and 2024 Wimbledon Championships articles (the two grand slams that were posted) to see what kind of improvements this article needs. ਪ੍ਰਿੰਸ ਆਫ਼ ਪੰਜਾਬ (PrinceofPunjab | ਗੱਲਬਾਤ) 11:06, 9 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose the US open article has very little prose. Fails to met the WP:ITNQUALITY. Also, since there has no work done on the article since it's nomination, I don't think it will get in shape to be posted. LiamKorda 09:06, 10 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Unfortunately, article is pretty barebones. The event is ITN/R but hasn't actually been posted since 2020, which is the last time we had a high-quality US Open article. I don't think it's a good idea to remove it from ITN/R, as it's a Grand Slam so by definition it's one of the four biggest tennis events of the calendar year. Agree with PrinceofPunjab above that using other Grand Slam articles as a template could help get future US Open articles up to snuff. --Pats2017 (talk) 00:52, 15 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    If there has been multiple years in a row of no attempt to get the ITNR article up to quality, it is completely fair to nominate it for removal from ITNR, but that should be done on the talk page. (It would be different if there was a true attempt falling short due to timing, but that's just not happened). — Masem (t) 00:59, 15 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Ironically was posted in 2021 with a bold link to the player only, a non-ITNR blurb highlighting a Brit's achievement.—Bagumba (talk) 05:22, 15 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Closed) Ongoing: Israel–Hezbollah conflict

[edit]
No consensus to add to ongoing. Stephen 02:31, 15 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: Israel–Hezbollah conflict (2023–present) (talk · history · tag)
Ongoing item nomination (Post)
News source(s): Al Jazeera
Credits:
Nominator's comments: Even if there is clear link with the Gaza war, this is still a different conflict, widely covered. --Roncanada (talk) 14:56, 8 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • The linked article asserts this is part of the Israel-Hamas conflict that started in Oct 2023. I'm not seeing how it is different. The linked article above is linked in one of the top navboxes of the main Israel-Hamas page as well. Masem (t) 15:07, 8 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Soft oppose Problem I have with including this in the ongoing section is that currently the conflict is little more than drone and artillery strikes by both sides. If the Israeli army launched a ground offensive into Lebanon, or vice versa, than I would support inclusion. Scu ba (talk) 15:30, 8 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose unless conflict escalates - Right now it's confined to skirmishes and not a full-scale conflict. If we must post this I say we include a spillover link in the ongoing item PrecariousWorlds (talk) 16:08, 8 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose per above - thus far it's just been exchanges of rocket fire and airstrikes, which is pretty much what it's been for a long time - just that they've gotten more frequent that normal. The Kip (contribs) 16:37, 8 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

(Posted) RD: Henny Moan

[edit]
Article: Henny Moan (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): NRK
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Norwegian actress. Seems sufficiently cited, except for filmography section (which needs citations). Oceanh (talk) 09:51, 8 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Per MOS:FILMCAST, a citation isn't required (though there's nothing stopping us providing one) as long as the role is credited. UndercoverClassicist T·C 10:30, 8 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
FILMCAST applies to pages about films, not to BLP, which have higher standards for sourcing. Masem (t) 15:08, 8 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
They do, but FILMCAST applies to film-related articles, not exclusively articles about films (an article on a film actor qualifies as "film-related", in my view, under any reasonable reading). The BLP sourcing standards in question are that any material challenged or likely to be challenged must be sourced. Putting those together, a citation would of course be welcome in any case, and required if there was a reasonable chance that someone would dispute whether she held a particular role. UndercoverClassicist T·C 16:39, 8 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I don't see where it says a citation is not required. Can you quote the excerpt? —Bagumba (talk) 06:47, 10 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
For uncredited roles, a citation should be provided in accordance with Wikipedia's verifiability policy. This is a case where the exception proves the rule -- by specifying that uncredited roles need a citation, it follows that credited roles do not (necessarily) require one. It's also covered by WP:PRIMARY, which has a primary source may only be used on Wikipedia to make straightforward, descriptive statements of facts that can be verified by any educated person with access to the primary source but without further, specialized knowledge: if a credit to the person is visible when watching the film, the film itself is a sufficient citation for the statement that they held a credited role, unless there is good reason to require further (dis)proof. UndercoverClassicist T·C 10:41, 11 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
So, the essence in what you are saying, is that citing the film itself (say, a dvd, or an online version) is sufficient for a credited role. But if there are no citations at all, we can not know whether the information is just taken from an «unreliable» source, such as another wiki or imdb. Oceanh (talk) 11:16, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, I suppose that would be a good way to do it, and within the spirit of WP:PRIMARY. Not required doesn't mean that it's required not to be included. UndercoverClassicist T·C 13:32, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support article looks alright to me. ਪ੍ਰਿੰਸ ਆਫ਼ ਪੰਜਾਬ (PrinceofPunjab | ਗੱਲਬਾਤ) 11:09, 9 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) Typhoon Yagi

[edit]
Proposed image
Article: Typhoon Yagi (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Typhoon Yagi (pictured), leaves at least 40 people dead in China, Vietnam, and the Philippines (Post)
News source(s): ChinaNews VNExpress GMA News
Credits:

The storm made historic landfall, the death toll continued to rise, and the article is in good shape. HurricaneEdgar 00:43, 8 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support Its a current weather event, so it should be recent. Sources are reliable and the context is notable. NikolaiVektovich (talk) 16:50, 8 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support as Yagi is absolutely notable enough to be in ITN. Shouldn't this be closed now? OhHaiMark (talk) 17:29, 8 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

September 7

[edit]
September 7, 2024 (2024-09-07) (Saturday)

Armed conflicts and attacks

Disasters and accidents

International relations

Law and crime

Politics and elections

Science and technology

Sports

(Posted) 2024 Algerian presidential election

[edit]
Proposed image
Article: 2024 Algerian presidential election (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Abdelmadjid Tebboune (pictured) is declared the winner of the 2024 Algerian presidential election. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ Abdelmadjid Tebboune (pictured) is declared the winner of the 2024 Algerian presidential election which the opposition boycotted.
Alternative blurb II: ​ Abdelmadjid Tebboune (pictured) is declared the winner of the 2024 Algerian presidential election amid a dispute over the election's turnout.
News source(s): ReutersAPAl Jazeera
Credits:

The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.

Nominator's comments: A national election that deserves to be ITN per WP:ITN/R Scu ba (talk) 22:04, 8 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

There was a very long discussion as to not try and accidentally convey that the Russian election was anything more than a sham from what I remember. Abcmaxx (talk) 08:15, 10 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support: I think "which the opposition boycotted" is sufficient for the reader to join the necessary dots, and is nicely factual and verifiable, whereas "the election was fraudulent" is much trickier. UndercoverClassicist T·C 06:14, 10 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I agree, fraud is a crime and labelling something fraudulent requires a legal process usually (as would e.g. murder or theft); given this is a de facto dictatorship we may never get any closure ever even if the regime falls as to how fraudulent or not this election is. At the same time I have long argued not to mislead by suggesting equivalency between fair and sham elections. Abcmaxx (talk) 08:13, 10 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Bagumba: I expanded the lead. Blaylockjam10 (talk) 23:25, 14 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Admins willing to post ITN: It looks like the article’s good enough now. Blaylockjam10 (talk) 23:30, 14 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Diondre Overton

[edit]
Article: Diondre Overton (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): CBS Sports
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Former Clemson wide receiver. 240F:7A:6253:1:6C2D:D568:97D0:2125 (talk) 03:40, 8 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support the article seems fine to me. ਪ੍ਰਿੰਸ ਆਫ਼ ਪੰਜਾਬ (PrinceofPunjab | ਗੱਲਬਾਤ) 11:30, 9 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support It looks like the article has enough details & references. Blaylockjam10 (talk) 07:41, 14 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Dan Morgenstern

[edit]
Article: Dan Morgenstern (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): NY Times
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Thriley (talk) 02:02, 8 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

September 6

[edit]
September 6, 2024 (2024-09-06) (Friday)

Armed conflicts and attacks

Arts and culture

Disasters and accidents

Law and crime

(Posted) RD: Rebecca Horn

[edit]
Article: Rebecca Horn (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Monopol Magazine, Der Spiegel
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

German visual artist. Grimes2 (talk) 10:40, 8 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Ron Yeats

[edit]
Article: Ron Yeats (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): BBC Sport
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Scottish footballer. 240F:7A:6253:1:6C2D:D568:97D0:2125 (talk) 03:40, 8 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Cathy Merrick

[edit]
Article: Cathy Merrick (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): CBC News
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Indigenous leader in Canada and Grand Chief of the Assembly of Manitoba Chiefs. Ornithoptera (talk) 06:04, 7 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Paul Goldsmith

[edit]
Article: Paul Goldsmith (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): https://www.cbsnews.com/news/paul-goldsmith-indianapolis-500-nascar-icon-dies-at-98/
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

RegalZ8790 (talk) 01:33, 7 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Closed) Ongoing: Brazilian investigation into Elon Musk

[edit]
Non-admin closure per WP:SNOW. --MtPenguinMonster (talk) 07:55, 7 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: Brazilian investigation into Elon Musk (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: No blurb specified (Post)
News source(s): Vide previous candidate
Credits:
ArionStar (talk) 23:06, 6 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

RD: Sérgio Mendes

[edit]
Article: Sérgio Mendes (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Variety, LA Times
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Brazilian musician. 240F:7A:6253:1:E121:3DD7:6095:EC33 (talk) 16:06, 6 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose orange tag, unsourced awards section and only 8 references for a bit long article. ਪ੍ਰਿੰਸ ਆਫ਼ ਪੰਜਾਬ (PrinceofPunjab | ਗੱਲਬਾਤ) 11:37, 9 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Closed) San Marino national football team

[edit]
Consensus to post will not develop, again. Stephen 10:58, 7 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: San Marino national football team (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ San Marino national football team, the lowest-ranked FIFA-affiliated national team, wins the first competitive victory in their 36-year history (Post)
News source(s): ESPN.com
Credits:
Holapaco77 (talk) 11:50, 6 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose While interesting, it's more suited for DYK than ITN, as per Pats2017 and Nfitz. --MtPenguinMonster (talk) 07:57, 7 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

September 5

[edit]
September 5, 2024 (2024-09-05) (Thursday)

Armed conflicts and attacks

Arts and culture

Business and economy

Health and environment

International relations

Law and crime

Politics and elections

Sports

(Ready) RD: Herbie Flowers

[edit]
Article: Herbie Flowers (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): BBC News, NME
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

English bass guitarist and member of T. Rex. 240F:7A:6253:1:7989:33F2:8DF6:8310 (talk) 16:23, 8 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: played bass on Lou Reed's "Walk on the Wild Side" and on David Essex's "Rock On". By the end of the 1970s, Flowers had played bass on an estimated 500 hit recordings. Martinevans123 (talk) 16:57, 8 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Radha Charan Gupta

[edit]
Article: Radha Charan Gupta (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): News18
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

One of the most prolific and celebrated Indian historians of mathematics. –jacobolus (t) 05:28, 7 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Laurent Tirard

[edit]
Article: Laurent Tirard (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Le Monde
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

French film director and screenwriter. 240F:7A:6253:1:E121:3DD7:6095:EC33 (talk) 15:37, 6 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support Looks good. Cognitivism (talk) 16:10, 6 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose most of the info on the article is unsourced. ਪ੍ਰਿੰਸ ਆਫ਼ ਪੰਜਾਬ (PrinceofPunjab | ਗੱਲਬਾਤ) 11:40, 9 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Rich Homie Quan

[edit]
Article: Rich Homie Quan (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The Source
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Heatrave (talk) 19:05, 5 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) Michel Barnier appointed Prime Minister of France

[edit]
Proposed image
Article: Michel Barnier (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Michel Barnier (pictured) is appointed Prime Minister of France by President Emmanuel Macron. (Post)
News source(s): "Live blog: Macron names Michel Barnier new prime minister". France24. 2024-09-05. Retrieved 2024-09-05.; "Michel Barnier named by Macron as new French PM". BBC News. 2024-09-05.
Credits:

UndercoverClassicist T·C 13:31, 5 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support, not ITN/R but still very relevant as the conclusion of two months of political uncertainty. Chaotic Enby (talk · contribs) 13:44, 5 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support looks good, politically relevant and a major event especially following the stalling of rejection of a leftist government. Scu ba (talk) 14:46, 5 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Yeah, there doesn't seem to be anything significant written about him between the 2022 election and now. Sourcing all of the awards unfortunately would be difficult (though I see some were removed, which is perfectly fine by me). Gödel2200 (talk) 18:03, 5 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
It's unfortunate -- my hope is that good sources for them exist, but I can't find anything (even in the awarding nations' languages) other than Wikipedias or Wiki-mirrors. The German Wikipedia has a very suspicious citation to "Federal Government" (in plain text) for the German award. All removed for now -- we now have no CN tags and I think the article's referencing should be up to the standard we need. UndercoverClassicist T·C 18:39, 5 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support The article is much better cited now, with only one uncited award left. It would be good to have more detail about this years French legislative election on his page (it only is mentioned in the lede right now). Gödel2200 (talk) 19:11, 5 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oops -- I missed that one -- another dubious case; removed. UndercoverClassicist T·C 20:28, 5 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support as it's been over 2 months since the French parliamentary elections, and this is a notable change in head of government. JohnAdams1800 (talk) 16:00, 5 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The prime minister is indeed the head of the executive branch in France. -- SashiRolls 🌿 · 🍥 14:54, 6 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
ITNR uses List of current heads of state and government to determine who administers the executive of each country and for France it is the President of France. This reply can also be my Oppose !vote I guess.  Bait30  Talk 2 me pls? 04:47, 7 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Wikipedia is not a reliable source, especially a page that does not cite any sources, such as the one you mention. As is well known, executive power is shared between the President and the Prime Minister according to the French Constitution. The Prime Minister heads the government, which "determines and conducts government policy". This is particularly evident in periods of cohabitation, such as the current period. Cf. [6]. The error on the page you mention has been fixed based on Article 21 of the French constitution. -- SashiRolls 🌿 · 🍥 07:13, 7 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The status of the current period as a cohabitation is still being discussed by reliable sources, as it is pretty much a unique situation between an entirely presidential regime and a "full" cohabitation. While the Prime Minister himself calls it "coexistence" rather than "cohabitation", political analysts describe it as "a new form of cohabitation", with the portmanteau "coalitation" being especially popular as the power shifts from the President to the National Assembly. Chaotic Enby (talk · contribs) 23:11, 7 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Leaving aside forumy discussions about whether a PM from a party holding fewer than 40 seats in the National Assembly represents a true transfer of power reflective of the results of the legislative election, the fact remains that the PM is (at the very least the nominative) co-leader of the executive branch and therefore his appointment is newsworthy. Article 21: Le Premier ministre dirige l'action du Gouvernement. Il est responsable de la défense nationale. Il assure l'exécution des lois. Sous réserve des dispositions de l'article 13, il exerce le pouvoir réglementaire et nomme aux emplois civils et militaires. The correction of the error mentioned above makes the appointment of a French PM automatic by virtue of Wikipedia:ITNELECTIONS.-- SashiRolls 🌿 · 🍥 01:16, 8 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support The appointment of a head of government after months of chaos is notable. --MtPenguinMonster (talk) 13:00, 6 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
It appears you have made 200 edits to mainspace. Feel free to get some experience by fixing whatever you see as problematic. As for whether the Prime Minister of a country whose government is run by the prime minister is a notable position, we'll have to agree to disagree. -- SashiRolls 🌿 · 🍥 14:51, 6 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I am not literate in French so it'd be hard for me to improve that article by finding sources without relying on Google Translate (which seems unreliable). But your point is taken, I should spend more time in mainspace. :) Kcmastrpc (talk) 15:06, 6 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
We only require the targeted article to be of sufficient quality - if we required all articles linked from the blurb to be of good quality, nothing would ever be posted. Gödel2200 (talk) 16:16, 6 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support: Those opposing are doing so largely based on faulty arguments: firstly, executive power is "bicephalous" (two-headed) in France. While the power of the prime minister is largely nominal when the President and PM are from the same party, this is not the case during divided government. Secondly, whether the nomination process is democratic or not does not determine whether something is newsworthy. -- SashiRolls 🌿 · 🍥 08:32, 7 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    And what exactly makes this appointment newsworthy/extraordinary compared to any other appointment? 31.44.224.222 (talk) 10:07, 8 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
See WP:ITNELECTIONS, good IP with 20 contribs.-- SashiRolls 🌿 · 🍥 12:19, 8 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I still struggle to see any extraordinary reasons for this to be posted and as kcmastrpc pointed out, prime minister of France is still orange tagged.
Furthermore, please refrain from continuing attempting to poison the well, as the amount of contributions anyone have has little to do with the validity of their arguments and doesn't help your case. 31.44.224.222 (talk) 14:15, 8 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The mention of your lack of experience is an attempt to explain your lack of understanding of the appropriate guideline that has been provided. Nothing extraordinary is required to post the appointment of a new head of government after 8 weeks of delay. That is not to say that this appointment is not extraordinary, given the extraordinary circumstances, but that is not relevant to a decision here. Moreover, after adding five standard references and a book review, I've removed the orange tag on prime minister of France. -- SashiRolls 🌿 · 🍥 16:42, 8 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
My IP is not static. Let's end our discussion on this page here since we're going dangerously off-topic.31.44.224.222 (talk) 10:23, 9 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment: Why not just add a bit to the current blurb?
ALT 1: Michel Barnier (pictured) is appointed Prime Minister of France by President Emmanuel Macron leading La France Insoumise to organize protests.-- SashiRolls 🌿 · 🍥 02:22, 8 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Might be wise to cut the "organised by", since my understanding is that other left-wing groups have had a role in organising some of the events -- could I suggest ALT2: "...by President Emmanuel Macron, leading to nationwide anti-government protests." UndercoverClassicist T·C 09:14, 8 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Fine with me... -- SashiRolls 🌿 · 🍥 18:24, 8 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Important country, important event. People will be turning to the Wikipedia article for information. Like the role of president and prime minister, which differs from every other country I can think of. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 15:18, 8 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support. Independent of the actual power of the PM, it's worth noting the situation here. French politics have increasingly heated lately, new elections were called, and Macron's recently appointed PM resigned within a year. Meanwhile, he goes with a different sort of pick here, but not without some backlash by the public. Again, this is discounting the actual power of the French PM, which seems to be understated in this discussion. DarkSide830 (talk) 23:53, 8 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose His predecessor's item was pulled from the ITN section, so I don't see why this should be posted. ਪ੍ਰਿੰਸ ਆਫ਼ ਪੰਜਾਬ (PrinceofPunjab | ਗੱਲਬਾਤ) 11:44, 9 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
His predecessor's item was posted. It was later pulled due to a lack of consensus over the blurb language (inclusion or not of his status as the first openly gay PM). The case was different too, of course, because it was not a situation of cohabitation (in which the President's primacy over the executive is lost to the PM). You supported posting Attal, but do not support posting Barnier. I'm confused as to why when the PM is exercising executive power you oppose, but when the PM was only administering the President's will you supported. -- SashiRolls 🌿 · 🍥 15:34, 9 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@SashiRolls, when I posted the support vote at the item, it was my only 15th edit to ITN/C page and was still learning the entire process. Since that time I've made more than 600 edits and I would have opposed that nomination now. Now, why I supported that nomination was because of his sexuality (shouldn't have). My Opposition now has more to do to with the power of the PM. Also, considering the political atmosphere right now, we may see such nominee in the near future again. ਪ੍ਰਿੰਸ ਆਫ਼ ਪੰਜਾਬ (PrinceofPunjab | ਗੱਲਬਾਤ) 17:50, 9 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support per SashiRolls. FlipandFlopped ツ 22:08, 9 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Rebecca Cheptegei

[edit]
Proposed image
Article: Rebecca Cheptegei (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The Standard, BBC, The Guardian, L'Équipe, Il Post
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: An Ugandan runner who most recently represented her country at the 2024 Summer Olympics, and has now fell victim of a horrible crime. The article definitely needs some more work, but the sources I've included should help us. Oltrepier (talk) 08:40, 5 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

September 4

[edit]
September 4, 2024 (2024-09-04) (Wednesday)

Armed conflicts and attacks

Arts and culture

Disasters and accidents

Health and environment

Law and crime

Politics and elections

Science and technology

(Posted) RD: Hans-Ulrich Schmincke

[edit]
Article: Hans-Ulrich Schmincke (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): [7]
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: German academic and volcanologist. Chaiten1 (talk) 17:39, 6 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support Looks good to me. Hungry403 (talk) 03:58, 7 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support looks ready to be posted. ਪ੍ਰਿੰਸ ਆਫ਼ ਪੰਜਾਬ (PrinceofPunjab | ਗੱਲਬਾਤ) 11:45, 9 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Not ready Nowhere in the prose does it say that he's died. Schwede66 00:16, 10 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Fixed, thank you! Chaiten1 (talk) 10:01, 10 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support This article has enough details & references. Blaylockjam10 (talk) 09:14, 11 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Noel Parmentel

[edit]
Article: Noel Parmentel (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): NY Times
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: NY Times obit published 4 September. Thriley (talk) 04:49, 6 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Closed) Apalachee High School shooting

[edit]
Consensus to post will not develop. Noah, BSBATalk 00:30, 6 September 2024 (UTC) (non-admin closure)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: 2024 Apalachee High School shooting (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ 4 are killed and 9 injured in a high school shooting in Georgia (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ 4 left dead in the first american school shooting of the year
News source(s): "4 dead in georgia school shooting". 2024-09-04. Retrieved 2024-09-05.; "A 14-year-old student fatally shot 4 people in a rampage at a Georgia high school, officials say". AP News. 2024-09-05.
Credits:
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

RD: Luis Ayala

[edit]
Article: Luis Ayala (tennis) (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Good article but needs more references in amateur career section. Abcmaxx (talk) 11:40, 5 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose outstanding number of cn tags and a performance timeline would look nice. ਪ੍ਰਿੰਸ ਆਫ਼ ਪੰਜਾਬ (PrinceofPunjab | ਗੱਲਬਾਤ) 11:50, 9 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Bora Đorđević

[edit]
Article: Bora Đorđević (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Good length article but needs a lot more references. Abcmaxx (talk) 11:40, 5 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose majority of this article is unsourced. ਪ੍ਰਿੰਸ ਆਫ਼ ਪੰਜਾਬ (PrinceofPunjab | ਗੱਲਬਾਤ) 11:51, 9 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

September 3

[edit]
September 3, 2024 (2024-09-03) (Tuesday)

Armed conflicts and attacks

Disasters and accidents

Health and environment

International relations

Law and crime

Politics and elections

RD: Wayne Graham

[edit]
Article: Wayne Graham (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): CBS Sports
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Former coach for the Rice Owls. 240F:7A:6253:1:DDC5:B4B4:9ABF:9780 (talk) 22:23, 4 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Vladimir Bure

[edit]
Article: Vladimir Bure (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): https://sports.yahoo.com/devils-mourn-passing-vladimir-bure-180000786.html
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Four Olympic medals, two Stanley Cups. 21:15, 4 September 2024 (UTC)

RD: Charley Johnson

[edit]
Article: Charley Johnson (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): CBS Sports
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Former quarterback for the Denver Broncos. 240F:7A:6253:1:2D26:E48C:3EF9:D097 (talk) 19:11, 4 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose orange tag in the Professional career section needs to be resolved. ਪ੍ਰਿੰਸ ਆਫ਼ ਪੰਜਾਬ (PrinceofPunjab | ਗੱਲਬਾਤ) 11:54, 9 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Jacqueline Winsor

[edit]
Article: Jacqueline Winsor (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): ARTnews
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Canadian-born American sculptor and contributor to the feminist movement. Article in good shape. Jmanlucas (talk) 23:12, 3 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support I don’t see any glaring issues with the article. 27.96.223.192 (talk) 06:32, 4 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support good quality article. Chaiten1 (talk) 06:53, 4 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Wait three cn tags are still there. ਪ੍ਰਿੰਸ ਆਫ਼ ਪੰਜਾਬ (PrinceofPunjab | ਗੱਲਬਾਤ) 11:55, 9 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support @Admins willing to post ITN: This has enough details & references now. Blaylockjam10 (talk) 23:40, 10 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

September 2

[edit]
September 2, 2024 (2024-09-02) (Monday)

Armed conflicts and attacks

Arts and culture

Disasters and accidents

International relations

Law and crime

Politics and elections

Sports

(Posted) 2024 Makala prison jailbreak attempt

[edit]
Article: 2024 Makala prison jailbreak attempt (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ 129 have died and a further 59 injured in an attempted jailbreak at Makala prison, Kinshasa, DR Congo. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ 129 people are killed and dozens injured as a consequence of an attempted jailbreak at a prison in Kinshasa, Democratic Republic of Congo.
Alternative blurb II: ​ 129 people are killed after an attempted jailbreak at a prison in Kinshasa, Democratic Republic of Congo.
News source(s): BBC News, The Guardian, AP News
Credits:

Article updated

Nominator's comments: Breaking news, global reach, just started article, help with expanding greatly appreciated. Given DR Congo is very under-reported, any good sources are vital. Significant tragedy, please don't comment on article quality until the article expands and has time to do so. Abcmaxx (talk) 11:08, 3 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The article is no longer a stub now, and looks long enough. Gödel2200 (talk) 11:44, 5 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The Mahara prison riot and Tuluá prison riot noms were not posted only due to quality issues (meaning there was not consensus against notability). For the other two mentioned examples (the February 2021 Ecuadorian prison riots and September 2021 Guayaquil prison riot), it does not seem that they were even nominated, which means there was not consensus against posting. In fact, prison riots do get featured on ITN. See for example this one, which was from June 2023. Gödel2200 (talk) 13:32, 5 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Rodolfo Hernández Suárez

[edit]
Article: Rodolfo Hernández Suárez (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): El Pais
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Article updated and well sourced. --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 05:27, 3 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support article is in a good shape. ਪ੍ਰਿੰਸ ਆਫ਼ ਪੰਜਾਬ (PrinceofPunjab | ਗੱਲਬਾਤ) 17:06, 3 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

RD: James Darren

[edit]
Article: James Darren (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): [8], [9]
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

 Happily888 (talk) 01:55, 3 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Needs work entire lead section is uncited. 27.96.223.192 (talk) 03:34, 3 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose a orange tag, multiple cn tags, unsourced discography and filmography. ਪ੍ਰਿੰਸ ਆਫ਼ ਪੰਜਾਬ (PrinceofPunjab | ਗੱਲਬਾਤ) 17:07, 3 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

RD: John Schultz (footballer, born 1938)

[edit]
Article: John Schultz (footballer, born 1938) (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Western Bulldogs
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

 🌀TyphoonAmpil🌀 (💬 - 📝) 04:01, 2 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose orange tag needs to be resolved. ਪ੍ਰਿੰਸ ਆਫ਼ ਪੰਜਾਬ (PrinceofPunjab | ਗੱਲਬਾਤ) 17:08, 3 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Closed, newer entry available) Typhoon Yagi (2024)

[edit]
See the updated September 8 entry on this same storm --Masem (t) 04:08, 8 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Proposed image
Article: Typhoon Yagi (2024) (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Typhoon Yagi (pictured), leaves more than fourteen people dead in the Philippines. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ Typhoon Yagi (pictured), leaves at least fourteen people dead in the Philippines.
News source(s): ABS CBN Rappler Inquirer
Credits:
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

September 1

[edit]
September 1, 2024 (2024-09-01) (Sunday)

Armed conflicts and attacks

Disasters and accidents

Health and environment

Law and crime

Politics and elections

(Posted) RD: Pete Wade

[edit]
Article: Pete Wade (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): NY Times
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: NY Times obit published 1 September. Thriley (talk) 03:09, 4 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Weak Support while I would love to see an expansion, I think the article is just about alright. ਪ੍ਰਿੰਸ ਆਫ਼ ਪੰਜਾਬ (PrinceofPunjab | ਗੱਲਬਾਤ) 17:40, 4 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

2024 Azerbaijani parliamentary election

[edit]
Proposed image
Article: 2024 Azerbaijani parliamentary election (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Ilham Aliyev's (pictured) ruling New Azerbaijan Party wins the 2024 Azerbaijani parliamentary election (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ The New Azerbaijan Party led by Ilham Aliyev (pictured) wins the 2024 Azerbaijani parliamentary election.
Alternative blurb II: ​ The New Azerbaijan Party led by Ilham Aliyev (pictured) is announced as the winner of the 2024 Azerbaijani parliamentary election.
News source(s): EuroNews Al-JazeeraAP
Credits:

The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.

Nominator's comments: A national election that deserves to be ITN. Article could use an aftermath section though. Scu ba (talk) 14:32, 3 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Doesn't change the fact all national elections are ITNR. Scu ba (talk) 17:33, 3 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support - Shocking election result, never saw it coming. Jokes aside it's ITNR and article is improving PrecariousWorlds (talk) 16:26, 4 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support ALT 2 Reliable sources, and many presidential elections have previously been on MP. NikolaiVektovich (talk) 16:48, 8 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Tim Bowden

[edit]
Article: Tim Bowden (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): [10], [11], [12]
Credits:

Article needs updating
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

 Happily888 (talk) 09:06, 3 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose article is a stub, needs more expansion. ਪ੍ਰਿੰਸ ਆਫ਼ ਪੰਜਾਬ (PrinceofPunjab | ਗੱਲਬਾਤ) 17:11, 3 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Linda Deutsch

[edit]
Article: Linda Deutsch (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Associated Press
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

240F:7A:6253:1:7969:2ABE:E6E3:A515 (talk) 02:58, 2 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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