Wikipedia:In the news/Candidates/November 2024

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November 30

Portal:Current events/2024 November 30

November 30, 2024 (2024-11-30) (Saturday) Armed conflicts and attacks Syrian civil war 2024 Syrian opposition offensives Battle of Aleppo Pro-government forces close Aleppo International Airport and major roads in Aleppo, Syria, as rebels continue to advance into the city. The airport is later captured by the rebels. (The Telegraph) (Reuters) Rebels capture the Citadel of Aleppo and the University of Aleppo as they continue to advance through the city. (New Arab) Rebel tanks reach the main Saadallah al-Jabiri Square in Aleppo's city centre with the Syrian Observatory for Human Rights reporting that a majority of the city is now under the control of rebel forces. (BBC News) The Syrian Army announces a total withdrawal from Aleppo, formally acknowledging the fall of the city to rebel forces, and saying that its troops will regroup and launch a counter-offensive to retake the city. (Reuters) A Russian airstrike hits a busy roundabout in Aleppo, killing at least 16 people and injuring 20 others, the first time that Russian warplanes have targeted the city since 2016. (SOHR) Operation Dawn of Freedom The Turkish-backed Syrian National Army launches an offensive in northern Aleppo Governorate, capturing the town of Tadef. (Caliber) A Syrian rebel coalition declares full control of Idlib Governorate after capturing the towns of Maarat al-Numan and Khan Shaykhun. (Al Arabiya) Rebel forces led by Tahrir al-Sham capture the Abu al-Duhur Air Base in Idlib Governorate following the withdrawal of the Syrian Armed Forces. (Sky News Arabia) (Caliber) The Kurdish-led Syrian Democratic Forces (SDF) take control of the Shiite-majority towns of Nubbul and Al-Zahraa in Aleppo Governorate after Syrian government forces withdraw from the towns. (Kurdistan 24) Rebel forces capture the towns of Morek, Kafr Zita, Qalaat al-Madiq, and Al-Lataminah in Hama Governorate. (Lbc) Rebel forces advance within 20 kilometres (12 mi) of the regional capital Hama with heavy clashes underway on the M5 Motorway. Pro-government forces reportedly retreat from the city and Hama Air Base toward Homs Governorate. (Anadolu Ajansi) (SOHR) SDF forces clash with the Turkish-backed Syrian National Army near Tell Abyad, Raqqa Governorate and in Manbij District, Aleppo Governorate, as pro-government forces withdraw from the region, leaving a power vacuum. (SOHR) Local forces in Talbiseh, northern Homs Governorate, attack Syrian Army convoys withdrawing towards Homs, seizing control of the town's checkpoint and burning it following pro-government forces withdrawal. (SOHR) Southern Syria offensive South Syrian rebel groups announce a new offensive on Daraa Governorate and Suwayda Governorate with the goal of implementing a pincer movement on Damascus. (Al-Araby) Arab–Israeli conflict Israel–Hamas war Israel–Hamas war hostage crisis Hamas releases a propaganda video showing Israeli American hostage Edan Alexander. (CBS News) An Israeli airstrike on a car in the Gaza Strip kills five people, including employees of World Central Kitchen. (AP) Israel–Hezbollah conflict Two people are killed and six others are injured in three airstrikes by Israel in southern Lebanon that occurred despite the ceasefire with Hezbollah. (Al Jazeera) Sudanese civil war The Rapid Support Forces announce a civil administration formed by a prime minister and a 90-member legislative council. (Dabanga Sudan) (The Conversation) Mexican drug war At least nine people are killed and four others are injured after an attack in a commercial zone in Apaseo el Grande, Guanajuato, Mexico. Local authorities say the attack relates to the drug sales in the region. (La Silla Rota) Business and economy Vietnam approves a US$67 billion 1,541 kilometres (958 mi) high speed rail line from Hanoi to Ho Chi Minh City, which will be an updated version of the North–South express railway proposal. (Reuters) Disasters and accidents At least 27 people are killed and more than 100 others are missing when a boat capsizes in the Niger River in Kogi State, Nigeria. (Al Jazeera) Law and crime Ibar-Lepenac attack Police arrest eight people linked to an explosion on a canal near Zubin Potok, Mitrovica District, Kosovo, that supplies water to the country's two main power plants. The Kosovar government blames Serbia for the "terrorist" acts, which Serbia denies. (Al Jazeera) (Euronews) (Le Monde) A student attacks his classmates with a hammer and injures two before being subdued by other students at a high school in Guadalajara, Jalisco, México. The attack was streamed on X, where the perpetrator published Nazi views and other violent content. (El Debate) Politics and elections 2024 Georgian post-election protests More than 100 demonstrators are arrested in Tbilisi, Georgia, while protesting against Prime Minister Irakli Kobakhidze's decision to temporarily suspend the country's accession plans to the European Union to 2028. (ABC News) 2024 Icelandic parliamentary election Citizens of Iceland vote in a snap election to elect the 63 members of the Althing national parliament. (Al Jazeera) Sports 2024 Copa Libertadores In association football, Botafogo win their first Copa Libertadores title after defeating Atlético Mineiro 3–1 in an all-Brazilian final at the Estadio Monumental in Buenos Aires, Argentina. (AP)

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(Posted) RD: Marianne Preger-Simon

Article: Marianne Preger-Simon (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The Recorder
Credits:

• Updated and nominated by Gerda Arendt (talk · give credit)
• Created by Cpfffr (talk · give credit)

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Pioneer of Modern Dance in the US, later psychotherapist, - the article was mostly there, missing details about husband and two children though. First indication that she died came on 30 November. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 10:34, 5 December 2024 (UTC)

• Support 373 words. This is enough for a "Start" article. The article is also well sourced. Grimes2 (talk) 13:16, 5 December 2024 (UTC)
• Support per Grimes2. Flip^andFlopped ツ 00:06, 7 December 2024 (UTC)
• Posted Stephen 22:09, 7 December 2024 (UTC)

RD: Lou Carnesecca

Article: Lou Carnesecca (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): CBS Sports
Credits:

• Nominated by 240F:7A:6253:1:25B2:1C93:6185:C6D (talk · give credit)
• Updated by Neverilluminated (talk · give credit) and Sunshineisles2 (talk · give credit)

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

 240F:7A:6253:1:25B2:1C93:6185:C6D (talk) 06:43, 2 December 2024 (UTC)

• Not ready. Two unsourced paragraphs and entirely unsourced coaching record. Flibirigit (talk) 22:47, 2 December 2024 (UTC)

2024 Copa Libertadores final

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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Article: 2024 Copa Libertadores final (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ In association football, Botafogo wins the Copa Libertadores after defeating Atlético Mineiro in the final. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ In association football, Botafogo defeats Atlético Mineiro to win the Copa Libertadores final.
News source(s): ge, Uol, AP, beIN, Forbes
Credits:

• Updated and nominated by Solon26125 (talk · give credit)

Article updated
The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.

Nominator's comments: The image could also be this one, of Luiz Henrique, who scored the first goal of the match and was elected MVP of the final and of the competition. Solon ^26.125 05:16, 1 December 2024 (UTC)

• Support itnr. Probably post motm instead of club logo. 27.96.223.193 (talk) 05:50, 1 December 2024 (UTC)
• Oppose on quality missing aftermath section. Given Botafogo is showing that scrapping the long-established existing system of ownership prevalent throughout South America with the introduction of private investment is bearing results, this looks (for now at least) like a turning point; the article should mention this. Also the fact that Atlético Mineiro were clear favourites and did much better throughout the tournament until the disastrous final isn’t made clear either. Abcmaxx (talk) 12:31, 1 December 2024 (UTC)

  @Abcmaxx hard to say Atlético were favorites - Brazilian media were not considering it as such, since despite Atlético's better campaign at the Libertadores, Botafogo leads the Brazilian Championship and may become its champion next Wednesday. There is a section on their road to the final as well. Also, both teams became privately owned, Botafogo is not the only one showing its results. Solon ^26.125 22:01, 1 December 2024 (UTC)

  @Solon26125: I stand corrected, but this is why what you said above should be included in the article, rather than just a simple match report. Abcmaxx (talk) 10:13, 2 December 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

(Posted) 2024 Georgian post-election protests

Article: 2024 Georgian post-election protests (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Protests erupt in Georgia after its government formally announces the country will suspend its application for EU membership. (Post)
News source(s): The Guardian
Credits:

• Created and nominated by Abcmaxx (talk · give credit)

Nominator's comments: Re-nominating as more comprehensive article has been created and previous nomination withdrawn. Protests have severely escalated, widespread police brutality akin to the 2020 Belarusian protests. The president has called the government illegitimate, which is very unusual. Abcmaxx (talk) 23:36, 30 November 2024 (UTC)

Support hopefully they can stop their oligarchs from trying to abolish their sovereignty. Scuba 03:36, 1 December 2024 (UTC)

Strong support on notability. This seems like a reverse January 6 to me, an American, with the president and a large number of protestors (and what seem to be a larger proportion of the civilian population) rejecting their recent election's results. Oppose on quality - everything's cited but it could definitely stand to be better organized. Departure– (talk) 04:43, 1 December 2024 (UTC)

Make that strong oppose on quality - I just now noticed the amount of cn tags. Departure– (talk) 04:44, 1 December 2024 (UTC)

• Oppose on quality only. There's definitely violence associated with this, and the EU membership withdrawl itself is also newsworthy. But as noted, the article has many unsourced paragraphs, and I would urge those that want to see this posted to try to avoid day-by-day blows and try to write how the protests happened more narratively. --Masem (t) 04:54, 1 December 2024 (UTC)

Support on significance. Lean oppose on quality for now, though the target article and blurb are better than the previous nomination. This reminds me of Euromaidan and the colour revolutions. 98.170.164.88 (talk) 04:58, 1 December 2024 (UTC)

I no longer object to the quality of the article, although there is still some room for improvement. 98.170.164.88 (talk) 07:01, 2 December 2024 (UTC)

Support on significance. The quality is not perfect but seems to be improving; didn't spot any cn tags now. Yakikaki (talk) 21:34, 1 December 2024 (UTC)

• Strong Support: Notable event; quality is slowly improving. Elios Peredhel (talk) 04:34, 2 December 2024 (UTC)
• Oppose The protests haven't yet succeeded to make any significant changes in country's politics, and the violence hasn't resulted in deaths and destruction of cultural monuments. The right to protest is one of the fundamental human rights, so a protest isn't notable for inclusion per se. As for the "suspended application for EU membership", this is a POV-pushing incorrect statement as it appears that the accession talks were only postponed. Moreover, even if the accession talks were suspended, they would have absolutely zero impact on the EU (frankly speaking, it's not a withdrawal from the EU like Brexit).--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 08:22, 2 December 2024 (UTC)

  They are burning effigies of Ivanishvili and firing fireworks at the parliament building, and Georgian Dream offices are being demolished. Police are beating men, women and minors alike to a pulp in the street in plain view. Protests don't have to be successful to be posted, the 2020 Belarusian protests were posted, and they weren't successful at all. Abcmaxx (talk) 10:22, 2 December 2024 (UTC)

  The significance of those protests was that they happened in a dictatorship where authorities supress any form of democratic movement and there were no protests of that scale since country's independence. Georgia is more democratic than Belarus and has a history of similar protests in the past, so these protests aren't really that special for now. Burning effigies, firing fireworks and demolishing offices are regular activities conducted during violent protests everywhere around the globe. Unless there are confirmed deaths, severely damaged cultural and historical landmarks, or real changes in country's politics, I don't think these protests are ready for posting (article's quality aside).--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 11:08, 2 December 2024 (UTC)

  Giving the last elections were equally quite blatantly falsified, the president has called the Georgian Dream, a party which wants to outlaw all opposition parties, a "rogue government", and what we are currently seeing is the authorities supressing any form of democratic movement, there is little difference between the two. The only difference is that Belarus has been a dictatorship since 1995 and not 2024. Abcmaxx (talk) 11:28, 2 December 2024 (UTC)

  I agree that there's clearly a democratic backsliding in Georgia mostly because of the 'foreign agent' law, but I'm unsure to what extent the election results were falsified (if falsified at all). I spent almost two weeks travelling around Georgia last year and got a different picture than the one presented by the Western media. The majority of people acknowledged that they had to maintain normal relations with Russia due to the economic dependence and fear from potential Russian invasion. My conclusion was that many Georgians support Georgian Dream simply because they don't want a Ukrainian scenario or an economic collapse in case they introduce sanctions as requested by the EU (Note that Russia is one of Georgia's largest trade partners, many Russians visit Georgia and spend a lot of money there, and Russia is home to the largest Georgian diaspora in the world.). In other words, Georgia's geopolitics without a land border with the EU is such that they have to maintain good relations with Russia. That being said, I don't trust Western media about the situation in Georgia at all, especially the labels that not being pro-EU automatically means pro-Russian, and I believe that the election results were not falsified to the extent to change the winner (Moreover, there are only accusations from the opposition parties that the results were falsified with no proof, and international observers refrained from declaring that the election was free and fair or that there was an electoral fraud.). This is my opinion built upon my personal experience from visiting Georgia. Others may have other opinions.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 08:47, 3 December 2024 (UTC)

  Georgia is a close-knit society, with a small population. The country is full of KGB agents and people with pro-Russian interests. Unless you are Georgian or at least speak the language then the locals will not tell you the whole story in order to safeguard themselves. Many still remember the 2008 invasion, or the upheaval in the 90s. A third of the country is still occupied by Russia. The Georgian Dream has around 30-35% electoral support, which is significant, but no way do they have majority popular support, and the generational divide is very wide, as the younger population are staunchly pro-European. The pro-Russian element is to do with oligarch money, which they are using to buy power. Abcmaxx (talk) 09:46, 4 December 2024 (UTC)

• Support on principle but Oppose on quality, none if the current protests are actually documented, only the govt level responses. Masem (t) 15:54, 2 December 2024 (UTC)
• Support Important enough especially in the context of the cold war between west and east. Tradedia^talk 03:03, 3 December 2024 (UTC)
• Posted Some opposes refer to referencing problems, but when I look at the article, this all looks fine and there are no citation needed tags. The article must have been improved since those comments were posted. I therefore find that there's consensus to post this. Schwede66 19:32, 7 December 2024 (UTC)

RD: Bob Bryar

Article: Bob Bryar (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): New York Post CNN Rolling Stone
Credits:

• Nominated by thrashbandicoot01 (talk · give credit)

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Former drummer for My Chemical Romance Tthrashbandicoot01 (talk) 22:57, 30 November 2024 (UTC)

Weak oppose Equipment section has no citations, but once that's fixed should be good to post. PolarManne (talk) 23:28, 30 November 2024 (UTC)

(Closed) 2024 Irish general election

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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Article: 2024 Irish general election (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ The Irish general election results in a hung parliament between Sinn Féin, Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ In the Irish general election, (Party XYZ) wins a plurality of seats in the Dáil Éireann.
News source(s): The Guardian
Credits:

• Nominated by Abcmaxx (talk · give credit)
• Created by Bastun (talk · give credit)

The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.

Nominator's comments: It looks like a 3-way tie and it will be a while before any coalition talks and a government is formed. Article needs results section to verify expanded and an aftermath section. Abcmaxx (talk) 10:40, 30 November 2024 (UTC)

Support Article is well-sourced and of sufficient quality for ITN. --MtPenguinMonster (talk) 12:30, 30 November 2024 (UTC)

• Support per ITNR and quality. SerialNumber54129 12:58, 30 November 2024 (UTC)

Wait Obviosuly ITNR, but I don't think the blurb is particularly good. I would wait until we have a more definitive idea of how many seats each party will win, and then look at how reliable sources are describing the outcome. In particular, I think it might be preferable for the blurb to mention which party is the largest. Gust Justice (talk) 00:36, 1 December 2024 (UTC)

Owing to the incredibly complex electoral system used in Ireland, this is about the only blurb we can post for a very long time. Abcmaxx (talk) 01:03, 1 December 2024 (UTC)

Maybe this is a stupid question, but how then do we know the results are going to be close without substantial results, besides the fact that polling SEEMS to show this is the likely result, seemingly similar to last election? DarkSide830 (talk) 04:17, 1 December 2024 (UTC)

I wouldn't say it's a stupid question DarkSide830. We just don't know without substantial results truthfully. The vote transfers are going to differ from voter to voter, and first preference winner does not necessarily equate to whoever gets the most seats. Sinn Fein topped the polls last election, but didn't nominate enough candidates from what I recall, so their excess preferences flowed to smaller left leaning parties. The final coalition wound up excluding SF altogether. I feel like saying it is a hung parliament is reading the tea leaves a bit early. Per my previous comments, The Guardian's article that was used as the news source for this nomination doesn't even mention a "hung parliament" from what I could see. Ornithoptera (talk) 10:03, 1 December 2024 (UTC)

There was a comment on the last time we ran the Irish election here, and he said that every election as long as he was alive resulted in a hung parliament; I dunno if that's true, but that's plausible. So this blurb indeed is not particularly good, so I'd suggest to wait until we have an idea on how hung it is, I guess. Howard the Duck (talk) 01:13, 1 December 2024 (UTC)

Support regardless of coalition talks, we should include the results as they are now. Scuba 03:36, 1 December 2024 (UTC)

Wait While first preference votes have been counted, Ireland's STV system means that the final seat count for the various parties (which can determine who would be prime for forming the next government) is not. We have a rough guess using the initial preferences, but I would advise that we wait until we have more than the initial preferences to go off of. Another issue is that the article cited for the blurb does not even mention a hung parliament, it only speaks to the exit poll (which wound up showing Sinn Fein on top, despite Fianna Fail placing first) everything's speculative at this point. Ornithoptera (talk) 06:38, 1 December 2024 (UTC)

Wait until more results come in, per Ornithoptera. Gelasin (talk) 07:04, 1 December 2024 (UTC)

Wait per others and propose alternative blurb. We shouldn't use "hung parliament" in a non-Westminster context. It makes no sense, as the electoral system is not geared to generate a clear winner. We wouldn't say that the German general election resulted in a hung parliament either. Khuft (talk) 14:00, 1 December 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Floods in Malaysia

Article: 2024–2025 floods in Southeast Asia and South Asia (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Floods in Malaysia displace more than 122,000 people. (Post)
News source(s): Channel News Asia

Nominator's comments: Worth for Wikipedia to monitor and consider adding information if it gets worse. 129.126.8.5 (talk) 10:27, 30 November 2024

• Comment Cleaned up nomination to help IP user who wished to nominate this. 2024–2025 floods in Southeast Asia and South Asia was the only related article I could find. Abcmaxx (talk) 10:45, 30 November 2024 (UTC)
• Oppose, sadly. Flooding in SE Asia countries is very routine with thousands killed each year, the problem is that there is usually no single major flood event that gets significant attention in the news to make any single flood event newsworthy. --Masem (t) 13:10, 30 November 2024 (UTC)

  I'm astonished you apparently think SE Asian lives are worth less, since they routinely die every year. Banedon (talk) 02:47, 2 December 2024 (UTC)

  I am speaking to how reliable sources cover these, which give far less attention to other mass casualty events. If these floods where given the same weight of coverage as hurricanes, that would be different, but the fact that we really only see these floods get covered a few times each year despite thd death toll and impact on people there is a sign that these events are more routine. — Masem (t) 16:02, 2 December 2024 (UTC)

• Oppose per Masem. Floods in this region happen too often for this one to be newsworthy enough for ITN. Gelasin (talk) 06:23, 1 December 2024 (UTC)
• Oppose Not rare enough to be ITN. Tradedia^talk 05:10, 7 December 2024 (UTC)

2024 Icelandic parliamentary election

Article: 2024 Icelandic parliamentary election (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ In the Icelandic parliamentary election, the Social Democratic Alliance, led by Kristrún Frostadóttir (pictured), wins the most seats in the Alþingi. (Post)
News source(s): AP Bloomberg
Credits:

• Nominated by Scu ba (talk · give credit)
• Created by Number 57 (talk · give credit)

The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.

Nominator's comments: ITN/R, national parliamentary election. Another incumbent lost, however, there are still coalition talks as to the exact composition of the government. Scuba 15:51, 2 December 2024 (UTC)

• Weak support Appears to be in mostly good shape - there's just one paragraph lacking citation in the Electoral System section. As well, some response to the results in the article would be appreciated. Departure– (talk) 15:53, 2 December 2024 (UTC)
• Weak support, per above. Some sections lack citations but apart from that it should be pretty much ready to go. Ornithoptera (talk) 18:58, 4 December 2024 (UTC)
• Support quality good enough to post and (sadly) better than most election articles. @Admins willing to post ITN: consensus to post before it expires? Abcmaxx (talk) 17:17, 6 December 2024 (UTC)

  There are a concerning number of citation needed tags, though. Schwede66 18:53, 6 December 2024 (UTC)

• Oppose The quality has not improved. Many citation needed tags remain. Tradedia^talk 05:09, 7 December 2024 (UTC)

November 29

Portal:Current events/2024 November 29

November 29, 2024 (2024-11-29) (Friday) Armed conflicts and attacks Syrian civil war 2024 Syrian opposition offensives Battle of Aleppo Anti-Assad forces led by Tahrir al-Sham enter the city of Aleppo, Syria, for the first time since 2016 with heavy urban fighting reportedly underway in the western neighbourhoods of the city. A rebel coalition spokesman confirms that an operation to capture Aleppo has officially begun. (CNN) (The New Arab) Rebel forces reach the city centre of Aleppo after overrunning multiple neighbourhoods, including New Aleppo. (Anadolu Agency) (AP) Syrian state media reports that four people are killed when rebel forces shell the University of Aleppo. (Reuters) Rebel forces capture the towns of Al-Hadher, Khan Tuman and Al-Eiss in Aleppo Governorate. (SOHR) Rebel forces capture the city of Saraqib in Idlib Governorate, which has been held by government forces since 2020. Pro-government forces withdraw from the city after two days of clashes. (ABC News) (Anadolu Ajansi) Russo-Ukrainian War Russian invasion of Ukraine, Ukraine–NATO relations Peace negotiations in the Russian invasion of Ukraine Ukrainian president Volodymyr Zelenskyy says that his country is ready to agree to a ceasefire if NATO protects parts of Ukraine. (Kyiv Post) Sudanese civil war Battle of Khartoum It is reported that 12 children have died this month in Khartoum, Sudan, due to city-wide malnutrition. (Sudan Tribune) Disasters and accidents 2024–2025 floods in Southeast Asia and South Asia At least three people are killed and more than 84,000 people are displaced by flooding in Malaysia, primarily in Kelantan. (AP) 2024–25 Australian region cyclone season The death toll from the floods and landslides in North Sumatra, Indonesia, increases to 31, with ten others injured, and dozens of others missing. (DW) Six people are killed and eight others are injured after a launching gantry and precast concrete segments collapsed onto the Rama II Road at a construction site of the Ekkachai–Ban Phaeo Intercity Motorway in Samut Sakhon, Thailand. (Bangkok Post) Politics and elections 2024 Irish general election Citizens of Ireland vote in a snap election to elect the 174 members of the 34th Dáil Éireann. (DW) The United Kingdom House of Commons votes 330–275 to pass the second reading of the Terminally Ill Adults Bill, marking the first time the Parliament has voted in favour of assisted dying. The bill will now need to pass several more stages before becoming law. (The Guardian)

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[Reviewers needed] RD: Tchinda Andrade

Article: Tchinda Andrade (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Rádio e Televisão de Portugal; Expresso das Ilhas; Radiotelevisão Caboverdiana
Credits:

• Updated and nominated by Grnrchst (talk · give credit)

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Cape Verdean LGBT activist and the first out trans person in the country. Died on 29 November. Grnrchst (talk) 10:25, 1 December 2024 (UTC)

Support properly cited. Scuba 18:40, 6 December 2024 (UTC)

• Looks good apart from an unreferenced year of birth. Schwede66 19:00, 6 December 2024 (UTC)

RD: Alice Hudson

Article: Alice Hudson (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The New York Times
Credits:

• Updated and nominated by TJMSmith (talk · give credit)

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: American librarian and cartographic curator. Died on November 6. Death reported November 29. TJMSmith (talk) 18:20, 30 November 2024 (UTC)

• Comment: Publications section needs references. Although short, meets minimum standards. Spencer^T•C 07:54, 2 December 2024 (UTC)

  Shifted that unsourced section to the talk page for further consideration. TJMSmith (talk) 23:18, 2 December 2024 (UTC)

Support from what I can see of the article, it is ready to go Scuba 18:40, 6 December 2024 (UTC)

(Withdrawn) 2024 Georgian pro-European protests

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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Article: 2024 Georgian pro-European protests (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Protests erupt in Georgia after its government formally announces the country will no longer pursue EU membership. (Post)
News source(s): BBC News
Credits:

• Created and nominated by Abcmaxx (talk · give credit)

Nominator's comments: Nominating to draw attention to it, this will likely be ongoing for a very long time given EU accession is enshrined in the country's constitution and that the falsified elections weren't overturned. Previous protests werent posted only because the article wasn't made in time and it failed on quality, although since has been expanded, hoping for help of others on this to avoid the sane fate. Abcmaxx (talk) 23:16, 29 November 2024 (UTC)

• Oppose on quality. Article is currently too short to post. Gelasin (talk) 23:30, 29 November 2024 (UTC)
• Oppose unless these protests escalate to something more serious. The article is currently very short to provide any detailed information.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 00:06, 30 November 2024 (UTC)

Comment I would reword the blurb as "... formally announces the country will suspend its application for EU membership". According to this article, the PM said that the negotiations were on hold until the end of 2028, but that the government would still aim for EU membership by 2030; maybe one could cynically claim that this amounts to the same thing in practice, but let's stick to what the government "formally announced".

I agree that the stub as it currently stands is obviously not sufficient to post. I would be open to supporting based on significance, but it's still a bit early to judge how important these protests will end up being. Does anyone know how many protesters there are/were, for one basic metric? The sources I've found just say "thousands". 98.170.164.88 (talk) 01:15, 30 November 2024 (UTC)

• Oppose unless some escalation in protests will happen. So far nothing serious is happened yet. Btw Georgia's EU accession process was suspended in July[1]. Currently government just formally accept reality that in near future accession is unlikely. But main goal to join EU in 2030 is still not abandoned. 46.188.18.196 (talk) 02:09, 30 November 2024 (UTC)
• Comment 107 arrests, widespread brutality, 2nd night of unrest with no signs of abating, so I strongly disagree this isn’t serious, there's hundreds of videos circulating of police bearing defenceless children and women in the street. Will try and expand later, help is welcome. Abcmaxx (talk) 09:45, 30 November 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

(Closed) Notre-Dame reopening

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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Article: Notre-Dame fire (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ The Notre-Dame cathedral (pictured in 2024) in Paris reopens following reconstruction in the wake of the 2019 fire. (Post)
News source(s): AP, CNN, WasPost
Credits:

• Nominated by Masem (talk · give credit)

Nominator's comments: The fire artricle is in good shape, and we could also link the cathedral itself (I only see a couple tagged things). That said, while the official opening to the public is next week on the 7th, Macron gave a large, widely-covered tour today to unveil the new interior prior to that opening. I can see holding off until next week to post, but I think we're getting the bigger coverage now (and given the dates, we're past the CRYSTAL point and the opening has little likelihood of not happening). It would be nice to get new interior pictures but I believe those will be subject to copyright, and I don't see any immediately new image of the cathedral in the last couple months, post-reconstruction. Masem (t) 17:11, 29 November 2024 (UTC)

• Support per above but suggest making Notre Dame the target rather than the fire This post was made by orbitalbuzzsaw gang (talk) 17:25, 29 November 2024 (UTC)
• Support when the event occurs, that is support but wait until it actually occurs. JohnAdams1800 (talk) 22:43, 29 November 2024 (UTC)
• Comment The article mentions that it’s planned to be re-opened on the weekend of 7-8 December. So, it’s too soon.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 17:50, 29 November 2024 (UTC)

  As I said, there's a lot media coverage today with Macron's tour of it. We could wait but it will be unclear which point will have the most coverage. — Masem (t) 18:25, 29 November 2024 (UTC)

• Oppose, as the reopening is scheduled for next weekend. (I've just reverted changes to the main Notre Dame de Paris article wrongly claiming it's open.) GenevieveDEon (talk) 18:55, 29 November 2024 (UTC)

• Strong oppose and close for now per all above. No comment on notability or quality. Departure– (talk) 19:14, 29 November 2024 (UTC)
• Support one of the main monuments of western civilization opening after several years after it's fire. Scuba 21:19, 29 November 2024 (UTC)
• Oppose per above. Dreameditsbrooklyn (talk) 22:17, 29 November 2024 (UTC)
• Oppose We're not posting future news, even if they're beyond WP:CRYSTAL. Chaotic Enby (talk · contribs) 22:28, 29 November 2024 (UTC)

• Oppose for now until it actually reopens. Gelasin (talk) 22:51, 29 November 2024 (UTC)

• To any non-involved party: Consensus appears to be to close until Notre-Dame actually re-opens, with overall consensus trending towards support, but an early close here appears likely. I've seen no arguments for posting this now so a non-involved party closing this would be appreciated, barring any dissidence towards this early closure. I'd do it myself, but we're still a few steps short of a snowstorm. Departure– (talk) 22:59, 29 November 2024 (UTC)
• Support Big historical landmark. Officially open to all guests. People are wrongly claiming it’s not open yet. Also, can somebody suggest the Irish election for tomorrow? 68.160.249.84 (talk) 01:24, 30 November 2024 (UTC)

  Wikipedia is going by the December date when the public will be allowed to visit, and we have reliable sources stating that. Also, we don't prematurely nominate elections - especially ones with specific winners and parties that hold onto, gain, or lose power in government. Departure– (talk) 01:30, 30 November 2024 (UTC)

• Needs work The article's coverage of the investigation isn't up-to-date, though no new leads seem to have been found. See Five years after Notre-Dame fire, no culprit has been found as cathedral's long-awaited reopening nears, for example. Andrew🐉(talk) 09:06, 30 November 2024 (UTC)

• Support If the fire was posted, I don't see any notability issues in posting reopening. ExclusiveEditor _{Notify Me!} 17:56, 1 December 2024 (UTC)

• Oppose: The fire was big time news, but the re-opening is nowhere near as important for the front page. We have WAY more important events going on right now that deserve coverage instead. Harizotoh9 (talk) 20:09, 1 December 2024 (UTC)

  That's not how it works. ITN does not focus only on "important" events. Masem (t) 20:48, 1 December 2024 (UTC)

• Support posting when the time is right. This is the kind of news that fits nicely with our encyclopedia. Tradedia^talk 16:03, 2 December 2024 (UTC)
• Support once it actually opens to the public. The reopening is definitely a notable event in itself, and the subject is nicely encyclopedic. Yakikaki (talk) 19:30, 3 December 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Von der Leyen Commission II

Article: Von der Leyen Commission II (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ The European Parliament confirms the new European Commission led by Ursula Von der Leyen (pictured). (Post)
News source(s): Deutsche Welle
Credits:

• Nominated by Sandstein (talk · give credit)

Nominator's comments: New supranational government, in office until 2029, of political significance equal to a change of national government. Will take office on 1 December 2024. Sandstein 10:14, 29 November 2024 (UTC)  Sandstein 10:14, 29 November 2024 (UTC)

• Support The Barroso Commission (2004) and the Juncker Commission (2014) were featured on ITN. It looks like the first Von der Leyen Commission (2019) wasn't, probably because nobody thought to nominate it. I would might support making this ITN/R. 98.170.164.88 (talk) 10:34, 29 November 2024 (UTC)
• Oppose The right news to post was her re-election in the same way we posted her election in 2019. This is just a routine change within the European Commission. Across individual countries, we generally post parliamentary election results, not when the government is officially formed and the cabinet is complete.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 10:37, 29 November 2024 (UTC)

  For the record, we didn't post her re-election this year (see ITN/C discussion), so maybe posting the commission formation would in some sense make up for that omission. 98.170.164.88 (talk) 11:06, 29 November 2024 (UTC)

  ITN often disagrees on when to post a change in head of government (which this is too, technically, as Von der Leyen will also commence her new term of office). We oscillate between posting the election or the assumption of the office. But that's not a reason not to post on either occasion, as long as we agree that the story is important. Sandstein 15:35, 29 November 2024 (UTC)

  This will set a precedent to post similar stories in the future. Let’s not open a can of worms.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 18:02, 29 November 2024 (UTC)

• Support Obviously. Per suprationalisms. SerialNumber54129 11:21, 29 November 2024 (UTC)
• Support Article looks good enough. Seeing how we posted Juncker and Barroso commissions taking effect, we should follow precedent. --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 11:49, 29 November 2024 (UTC)
• Support Quite a good article. Given we bizarrely failed to post Von der Leyen's re-election we should definitely post this. The European Commission is one of the most powerful bodies in the world, and uniquely powerful for a supranational union. AusLondonder (talk) 13:21, 29 November 2024 (UTC)

  By the same logic, we should post Second cabinet of Donald Trump's confirmation by the United States Senate, right?--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 14:06, 29 November 2024 (UTC)

  eh...no? The United States is not an international political, economic and monetary union. What an absurd comparison. _-_Alsor (talk) 15:35, 29 November 2024 (UTC)

  The United States is politically and economically more powerful, influential and independent than the European Union. Moreover, we don't have a rule that supranational unions should be assigned more significance. That being said, a supranational union isn't a valid argument to support this.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 16:08, 29 November 2024 (UTC)

  By the same logic. At least they were demonstrating some; your argument ("Go USA", fauxcomparatives etc) possesses a certain paucity in that department. SerialNumber54129

  I don’t admire the US politics very much, but I can’t deny the facts (I didn’t tell the IMF and World Bank that US should have 50% higher GDP than the EU). You’re welcome to elaborate what is EU’s real power that makes it significant (maybe Germany going into recession after imposing sanctions against Russia?). People here should divorce from their emotions that the EU is the greatest and most influential thing that ever happened in the world. Yes, it was initially a peaceful project between the European nations with the goal of uniting Europe, but it eventually ended up in a union propagating the non-sense that the largest country in Europe is actually not European. For what it’s worth, I’m European.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 17:46, 29 November 2024 (UTC)

  The United States is certainly a union -- it's right there in the name. Its states were separate colonies and still have their own governments and laws. Andrew🐉(talk) 09:11, 30 November 2024 (UTC)

• Oppose - This is a purely procedural matter. Kiril is right that her election was the thing to post; we could have posted her re-election too, but the fact that we didn't isn't by itself justification for posting this lesser event. GenevieveDEon (talk) 14:33, 29 November 2024 (UTC)

• Oppose per Kiril and Genevieve; the window for posting was when the election occurred, not at the time when the term actually started. It would be a slippery slope to allow "oh, we missed it, lets post here instead"-type logic for ITNR items (which I am pretty sure the election would have been treated as). --Masem (t) 14:35, 29 November 2024 (UTC)

  This misses the point that this is actually a notable story anyway with a good article that's in the news. AusLondonder (talk) 14:49, 29 November 2024 (UTC)

  All articles related to UK and US politics are in very good shape. It doesn't mean that we should make concessions to post similar procedural events there.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 16:11, 29 November 2024 (UTC)

  Also, this article isn't in good shape- it has way too many tables compared to text content, and is orange tagged for section needing update. And it's based on an election event that is stale. Joseph2302 (talk) 22:08, 29 November 2024 (UTC)

• Support per TDKR Chicago 101. It was a failure not to post von der Leyen's election, so we can repair it with the election of the commission, its quasi von der Leyen's inauguration. Grimes2 (talk) 15:15, 29 November 2024 (UTC)
• Oppose as stale, the election was the event to post. Also, this article fails WP:ITNQUALITY by having an overkill of tabled content compares to prose. Joseph2302 (talk) 18:36, 29 November 2024 (UTC)

• Oppose as we usually don't post about government formation of ministers, just heads of state and government.

JohnAdams1800 (talk) 22:42, 29 November 2024 (UTC)

• Oppose We should have posted her election, but this is less important and as such I cannot support posting it. Gelasin (talk) 22:49, 29 November 2024 (UTC)
• Oppose Stale after the election in May and a formation of an unelected cabinet shouldn't be blurbworthy. The C of E God Save the King! (talk) 09:41, 30 November 2024 (UTC)
• Support per all above. Is not the formation of a government, it is the election of a government by a parliament. Just as the election of a PM by a parliament would be posted, so is the election of the European Commission. _-_Alsor (talk) 11:30, 30 November 2024 (UTC)
• Support per Alsoriano97. Notable international news. Jusdafax (talk) 21:59, 30 November 2024 (UTC)
• Support Maybe we should have posted earlier about this topic, but it is better to post this one rather than nothing at all. Important topic, so better late than never. Tradedia^talk 15:48, 2 December 2024 (UTC)

Oppose per above Setarip (talk) 19:12, 3 December 2024 (UTC)

• Support Kinda big deal, actually. This is the one that counts, following the European elections in June. I found the article to be in a surprisingly good shape, too. Yakikaki (talk) 19:35, 3 December 2024 (UTC)
• Comment: Rm ready; at present, no consensus to post based on the above discussion. Spencer^T•C 04:19, 4 December 2024 (UTC)

  11 votes for support

  8 votes for oppose

  not sure if that's no consensus or a slight consensus to post. Scuba 18:43, 6 December 2024 (UTC)

Support big deal, she's going to be in charge of the commission for until 2029. Article is of sufficient quality. Sure it would've been better to post when she won the election for the commission, but this is also fine since we didn't. Scuba 18:41, 6 December 2024 (UTC)

November 28

Portal:Current events/2024 November 28

November 28, 2024 (2024-11-28) (Thursday) Armed conflicts and attacks Russian invasion of Ukraine Eastern front of the Russian invasion of Ukraine The Russian Defence Ministry claims that Russian forces have taken the village of Nova Illinka in Donetsk Oblast, Ukraine. (Reuters) Russian strikes against Ukrainian infrastructure, Ukrainian energy crisis Russia launches a massive missile and drone attack on civilian and critical infrastructure in Ukraine, injuring at least five people and causing blackouts for more than a million households. (CNN) Syrian civil war 2024 Syrian opposition offensives More than 130 Syrian Army soldiers are killed and dozens of others are captured as rebel forces led by Tahrir al-Sham advance to within 10 kilometres of Aleppo, Syria. (Reuters) Rebel forces cut off the strategic M5 Motorway which connects Aleppo to Damascus and also capture the district of Khan al-Asal near Aleppo. (i24 News) (The Guardian) An Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps brigadier is killed in a shootout in Aleppo. (Rudaw) Russian and Syrian warplanes strike rebel-held positions across Idlib Governorate. Separately, at least 17 people are killed in airstrikes on the towns of Atarib and Darat Izza in Aleppo Governorate. (Reuters) (SOHR) Hezbollah–Israel conflict 2024 Israel–Lebanon ceasefire agreement Israel and Hezbollah accuse each other of violating ceasefire terms that came into action the prior day, following an Israeli Air Force airstrike on a Hezbollah missile storage facility and the Israeli Defense Forces opening fire on suspected combatants moving into southern Lebanon. (Reuters) Disasters and accidents 2024–25 Australian region cyclone season Landslides and flash floods caused by Cyclone Robyn kill at least 27 people and injure dozens of others in North Sumatra, Indonesia. (Reuters) 2024 North Indian Ocean cyclone season At least twelve people, including four children, are killed and more than 250,000 people are evacuated due to flooding and landslides caused by Deep Depression BOB 08 in Sri Lanka. (DW) 2024 South Korean snowstorm At least six people are killed in traffic accidents and more than 140 flights are canceled in Gyeonggi Province, South Korea, due to a winter storm in the country, marking the third heaviest snowfall in Seoul since 1907. (AP) (Yonhap) (Newsweek) 2024 Ugandan landslides Fifteen people are killed and 113 others are missing in landslides in Bulambuli, Uganda. (Al Jazeera) International relations Georgia–European Union relations, Potential enlargement of the European Union Accession of Georgia to the European Union Prime Minister of Georgia Irakli Kobakhidze temporarily suspends the country's accession to the European Union until 2028 and accuses the European Parliament of blackmail. (Al Jazeera) (Politico) Chad–France relations The government of Chad announces it will terminate its defense pact with France, stating it wants to fully assert its sovereignty following its independence from France in 1960. (DW) (VOA) Law and crime Anti-corruption campaign under Xi Jinping The Chinese Communist Party suspends the Director of the Political Work Department of the Central Military Commission Admiral Miao Hua from his post following a corruption investigation. (CNA) PTI do-or-die protest, Freedom of the press in Pakistan Pakistani senior journalist Matiullah Jan and his colleague are abducted by unidentified men while they were reporting on the protests for the release of former Prime Minister Imran Khan in Islamabad, Pakistan. (DW) (The Nation) Politics and elections 2024 Georgian parliamentary election protests, Accession of Georgia to the European Union Thousands of people gather in Tbilisi, Georgia, to protest against Prime Minister Irakli Kobakhidze and his party's decision to suspend the country's accession plans to the European Union. Riot police fire tear gas and water cannons at protesters near the parliament building. (DW) (Yahoo! News) (The New York Times) 2024 Romanian presidential election The Constitutional Court of Romania requests a recount of all votes cast in the first round of the presidential election following a complaint by candidate Cristian Terheș. (AP) The Australian House of Representatives passes a bill to restrict social media access for people under the age of 16 years. (NBC News)

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(Posted) RD/Blurb: Silvia Pinal

Article: Silvia Pinal (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination
Blurb:  Mexican actress Silvia Pinal (pictured) dies at the age of 93. (Post)
News source(s): The Guardian, USA Today, CNN
Credits:

• Nominated by Mr. Lechkar (talk · give credit)
• Updated by Moscow Mule (talk · give credit) and Tbhotch (talk · give credit)

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Actor of the Mexican Golden Age film era. Mr. Lechkar (talk) 00:50, 30 November 2024 (UTC)

• Not ready. Sadly the article is not ready yet. More citations needed, the filmography section is totally unsourced. Alexcalamaro (talk) 08:21, 30 November 2024 (UTC)
• Wait, I'll never understand the urgency of nominating articles before working on them. I'll be working on it. (CC) Tbhotch^™ 16:15, 30 November 2024 (UTC)

• I think it is mostly ready. There are a few details but not that major for the main page. (CC) Tbhotch^™ 00:19, 2 December 2024 (UTC)

• Support Article well sourced now. One cn tag shouldn't keep it from getting posted. --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 10:23, 2 December 2024 (UTC)
• Support. Up to scratch now. And, fwiw, as blurbworthy as some others similarly honoured in the past. Moscow Mule (talk) 01:39, 3 December 2024 (UTC)
• Oppose blurb No clear indication of being a major/great figure in the article (such as a legacy or impact section). For example, while the lede touches on being a major figure of the Golden Age of Mexican film, this is nowhere expanded upon in the body. If such a section could be created to support the recognizition, that would make it more appropriate for a blurb, but right now, based on the current state of the article, it would be hand-waving without sufficient sources to back the claim. --Masem (t) 05:44, 3 December 2024 (UTC)
• Posted to RD. Spencer^T•C 07:36, 3 December 2024 (UTC)

(Posted) Northwestern Syria offensive (2024)

Article: Northwestern Syria offensive (2024) (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ The Syrian opposition launches an offensive for the first time since the 2020 ceasefire. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ The Syrian opposition enters Aleppo in the first offensive since the 2020 ceasefire.
Alternative blurb II: ​ Turkish-backed militants enter Aleppo, Syria in the the first offensive since the 2020 ceasefire.
News source(s): CNNAP The Guardian
Credits:

• Nominated by Scu ba (talk · give credit)
• Created by Ecrusized (talk · give credit)

Nominator's comments: First major offensive since the 2020 ceasefire, over 25 villages and towns taken, the rebels are also at the door of Aleppo again. We might want to also add this to ongoing. Scuba 15:15, 28 November 2024 (UTC)

• Support as this is the war’s first major flare-up in as long as I can remember. Don’t think we should put in ongoing for now, though. The Kip ^(contribs) 16:56, 28 November 2024 (UTC)

• Support first big offensive in 4 years, reasonable to post, agree with kip on not doing ongoing Ion.want.uu (talk) 17:10, 28 November 2024 (UTC)
• Support notable offensive, first in a long time Personisinsterest (talk) 18:05, 28 November 2024 (UTC)
• Support first major development in the Syrian Civil War since the 2020 ceasefire. Aydoh8^[contribs] 03:06, 29 November 2024 (UTC)
• Strong Support major worldwide news. Article is well sourced. INeedSupport ^:3 03:15, 29 November 2024 (UTC)
• Support Altblurb I as it shows where the offensive took place. INeedSupport ^:3 23:48, 29 November 2024 (UTC)
• Comment Not convinced by the significance of the attack. Largely it maybe considered a spillover of the Israel–Hamas war in Syria and while this might be the first large scale offensive since 2020, clashes did not definitely cease as indicated by the presence of Northwestern Syria clashes (December 2022–November 2024). The Syrian civil never stopped and while this could be its next major phase, that is not definitive as of now. Gotitbro (talk) 07:25, 29 November 2024 (UTC)

  Those clashes saw fighting for a single village, this offensive has seen the rebels capture 40+ villages, 2 cities, a military base, and are again in Aleppo, one of the major cities of Syria. They aren't really comparable. Scuba 15:05, 29 November 2024 (UTC)

• Wait. While this is indeed a re-escalation of the fighting, the amount of territory retaken is fairly small so far. If the opposition forces recapture Aleppo, I think that would be significant enough to post; a few towns on the approaches to the city are not. Let's see how this plays out before posting anything. Modest Genius ^talk 12:01, 29 November 2024 (UTC)

  We now have a page for the fighting in Aleppo, rebels are still making progress there and are capturing chunks of the city. Scuba 14:56, 29 November 2024 (UTC)

  Even more reason to wait a day or two, to see if the city changes hands. Modest Genius ^talk 18:36, 29 November 2024 (UTC)

  Yeah, they took the citadel today, the main SAA-Hezbollah-IRGC HQ in the center of the city. Only real resistance is coming from the kurds in the Sheikh Maqsoud neighbourhood. All government buildings, including the police HQ have been taken. Scuba 23:33, 29 November 2024 (UTC)

• Support An actual development in this war since forever, very significant. Setarip (talk) 13:44, 29 November 2024 (UTC)
• Support per above TheHiddenCity (talk) 13:49, 29 November 2024 (UTC)
• Support Mainly due to the sheer amount of land recaptured (cf General Melchett's 1:1 scale map: 'It's very detailed; look, there's a little worm'). SerialNumber54129 13:55, 29 November 2024 (UTC)
• Support First major offensive in the War in a while, definitely not covered by ongoing anymore and article is in good shape. Editor 5426387 (talk) 17:32, 29 November 2024 (UTC)
• Support Major offensive - warrants it's place in ITN The AP (talk) 17:36, 29 November 2024 (UTC)
• Wait and recenter nomination on Aleppo in case it falls. I feel this is only making major headlines now that the opposition is in the outskirts of Aleppo. Would be worth waiting if the city falls - that would certainly be major news. Khuft (talk) 19:44, 29 November 2024 (UTC)

  The blurb could always be updated if that happens. Nice4What (talk · contribs) – (Thanks ♥) 21:07, 29 November 2024 (UTC)

• Support, Syrian rebels are currently inside Aleppo. Chaotic Enby (talk · contribs) 22:21, 29 November 2024 (UTC)
• Support – significant coverage on AP, WP, and NYT of a significant development in the Syrian War. ArkHyena (it/its) 22:50, 29 November 2024 (UTC)
• Support altblurb 1 or a new blurb referencing that they claim half the city and the center of government, things are moving fast Omnifalcon (talk) 01:20, 30 November 2024 (UTC)
• Posted Alt1. Spencer^T•C 06:15, 30 November 2024 (UTC)

Wanted to note that Aleppo has been captured entirely according to NBC, NPR, and CNN. Should the ITN be updated? 76.103.210.133 (talk) 02:50, 3 December 2024 (UTC)

(Posted) RD: Tom Hughes (Australian politician)

Article: Tom Hughes (Australian politician) (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Sydney Morning Herald
Credits:

• Nominated by Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk · give credit)
• Updated by Haerlaihe (talk · give credit)

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Australian barrister and politician Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 14:38, 28 November 2024 (UTC)

Support only one cn tag. Scuba 15:21, 28 November 2024 (UTC)

Support. Article sourcing is in reasonable shape. I T B F 📢 15:12, 30 November 2024 (UTC)

Support as per above comments. TheScrubby (talk) 14:22, 1 December 2024 (UTC)

• Support - Article ready for RD posting. Jusdafax (talk) 21:18, 1 December 2024 (UTC)
• Posted Stephen 23:13, 1 December 2024 (UTC)

RD: Prince Johnson

Article: Prince Johnson (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Reuters
Credits:

• Nominated by Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk · give credit)

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Liberian warlord Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 14:34, 28 November 2024 (UTC)

oppose 7 cn tags, article needs work. Scuba 15:26, 28 November 2024 (UTC)

• The 7 cn tags are still there. --PFHLai (talk) 23:00, 1 December 2024 (UTC)

(Closed) Ongoing removal: Israeli Invasion of Lebanon

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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Article: 2024 Israeli invasion of Lebanon (talk · history · tag)
Ongoing item removal (Post)

Nominator's comments: Ceasefire was signed. Interstellarity (talk) 14:22, 28 November 2024 (UTC)

• Comment I would at least wait a few days, letting the ceasefire news stabilize for a bit, as well as to actually make sure the ceasefire holds. Also, as this is only a 60-day ceasefire, we may need to be prepared to readd it in late Jan/early Feb. if hostilies immediately flare back up. --Masem (t) 14:30, 28 November 2024 (UTC)
• Wait for 60 days. There are still Israeli soldiers in Lebanon. Grimes2 (talk) 14:39, 28 November 2024 (UTC)

Oppose Israel is still prohibiting the return of Lebanese civilians, and has threatened to pick up hostilities again. We should wait and see if they're serious about the ceasefire. Scuba 15:20, 28 November 2024 (UTC)

• Wait for a few more days to see if things definitively hold. The Kip ^(contribs) 16:58, 28 November 2024 (UTC)
• Support. Was thinking of nominating myself. It's a complete contradiction to say in the top headline there's a ceasefire, while also saying it's "ongoing". Makes us look silly. If hostilities break out again it's easy enough to re-add it.  — Amakuru (talk) 17:06, 28 November 2024 (UTC)

We don't say there is a ceasefire, but rather that Israel and Lebanon agreed to one. Secondly, ceasefires can happen during invasions: eg see 2023 Israel–Hamas ceasefire amid the Israeli invasion of the Gaza Strip.VR _{(Please ping on reply)} 20:16, 28 November 2024 (UTC)

• Doesn’t look like Israel is stopping air strikes so sure there was a ceasefire, Israel is just breaking it now. Scuba 17:34, 28 November 2024 (UTC)

• Support. Calling it an invasion was a bit of hyperbole in the first place anyway. Khuft (talk) 18:28, 28 November 2024 (UTC)

• Oppose There are Israeli troops on the ground still and alleged violations of the ceasefire

Personisinsterest (talk) 20:10, 28 November 2024 (UTC)

• Oppose: there was an airstrike today. Israel interprets the "ceasefire" agreement that allows it to continue attacking Lebanon. Israeli troops are still inside Lebanon and preventing Lebanese from returning home[2].VR _{(Please ping on reply)} 20:16, 28 November 2024 (UTC)

Oppose Both Israel and Hezbollah are supposedly violating the ceasefire agreement, with Israel yet to withdraw troops. [3] [4] Aydoh8^[contribs] 03:11, 29 November 2024 (UTC)

Oppose 60 days is not a lot of time for a ceasefire. Anything can happen within those 60 days and tensions are still high. If it becomes more permanent, then I support removal. INeedSupport ^:3 03:17, 29 November 2024 (UTC)

Oppose - Israeli troops are yet to be called back - and there are also alleged violations of the ceasefire The AP (talk) 09:34, 29 November 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

RD: Ananda Krishnan

Article: Ananda Krishnan (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Reuters
Credits:

• Nominated by 240F:7A:6253:1:E494:F12F:1DF4:BC0B (talk · give credit)

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Malaysian business mogul and founder of Usaha Tegas. 240F:7A:6253:1:E494:F12F:1DF4:BC0B (talk) 12:00, 28 November 2024 (UTC)

Oppose Career section orange tagged as it is entirely unsourced. Scuba 15:19, 28 November 2024 (UTC)

November 27

Portal:Current events/2024 November 27

November 27, 2024 (2024-11-27) (Wednesday) Armed conflicts and attacks Israel–Hezbollah conflict 2024 Israeli invasion of Lebanon 2024 Israel–Lebanon ceasefire agreement A 60-day ceasefire between Israel and Hezbollah takes effect. (Reuters) (BBC News) Israel–Hamas war Israeli invasion of the Gaza Strip, Killing of journalists in the Israel–Hamas war Seventeen people, including one journalist, are killed in Israeli strikes on the Kamal Adwan Hospital in Beit Lahia and the Nuseirat refugee camp in the Gaza Strip. (The New Arab) (Anadolu Agency) (Al Jazeera) United States support for Israel in the Israel–Hamas war The Joe Biden administration provisionally approves a $680 million military arms package to Israel, including hundreds of small diameter bombs and thousands of JDAMs. (Al Jazeera) Syrian civil war 2024 Syrian opposition offensives Syrian opposition forces led by Tahrir al-Sham attack the pro-government Syrian Army in western Aleppo Governorate, capturing eleven towns and villages. (Al Jazeera) (SOHR) Rojava conflict Rojavan Kurdish insurgents launch a raid on Turkish-Syrian National Army positions in Manbij, Aleppo Governorate, Syria, although no casualties are reported. (SOHR) Arts and culture The City of London Corporation proposes a bill to close the 19th-century Billingsgate Fish Market in Billingsgate and Smithfield Meat Market in Smithfield, City of London, United Kingdom, by 2028. (BBC News) (AP) International relations United States–Venezuela relations, 2024 Venezuelan political crisis The United States imposes sanctions on 21 Venezuelan officials, including information minister Freddy Ñáñez and planning minister Ricardo Menéndez, for suppressing the protests against the results of the presidential election in July. (DW) Law and crime Killing of Yuval Castleman The Israel Defense Forces indicts Sgt. Aviad Frija with reduced manslaughter after he shot and killed Yuval Castleman after mistaking Castleman for a Hamas militant during the 7 October attacks. (The Jerusalem Post) Rohingya genocide, War crimes during the Myanmar civil war Prosecutor of the International Criminal Court Karim Ahmad Khan applies for an arrest warrant for Myanmar's military leader and Chairman of the State Administration Council Min Aung Hlaing for crimes against humanity relating to the deportation and persecution of the Rohingya. (The Guardian) Politics and elections Constitutional crisis in Somalia 2024 Jubaland presidential election The Banadir Regional Court in Mogadishu, Somalia, issues an arrest warrant for Jubaland President Ahmed Madobe, accusing Madobe of treason and violating the constitution. In response, the regional court in Kismayo, Jubaland, announces a $100,000 reward for the arrest of Somali President Hassan Sheikh Mohamud, accusing Hassan of treason, undermining national unity, and conspiring with Al-Shabaab militia. (AFP) (Idili News) (Hiiraan Online) 2024 Indonesian local elections Indonesians vote for governors, regents, and mayors in the country's first simultaneous local elections. (CNN Indonesia) 2024 Namibian general election Namibians vote in the first round of the general election between 14 candidates for President, and also vote for the 96 members of the National Assembly. (AP) (DW)

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(Posted) RD: John Stanley Pottinger

Article: John Stanley Pottinger (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): NYTimes
Credits:

• Nominated by Staraction (talk · give credit)
• Updated by Connormah (talk · give credit)

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: American attorney and novelist who discovered the identity of Deep Throat (Watergate). Article's on the shorter side. Staraction (talk | contribs) 18:11, 30 November 2024 (UTC)

• Posted Stephen 04:09, 4 December 2024 (UTC)

(Withdrawn) ICC arrest warrant for Min Aung Hlaing

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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Article: Min Aung Hlaing (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ The International Criminal Court issues an arrest warrant for Burmese military junta leader Min Aung Hlaing in its investigation of the Rohingya genocide (Post)
News source(s): The Guardian
Credits:

• Nominated by Nice4What (talk · give credit)

Nominator's comments: Another significant arrest warrant issued by the ICC, against a sitting head of state and for crimes against humanity related to a genocide. Nice4What (talk · contribs) – (Thanks ♥) 15:47, 27 November 2024 (UTC)

Support weird that they would only investigate Hlaing, instead of any of the people in office at the time. Scuba 15:57, 27 November 2024 (UTC)

Huge support very notable and worthy, surprised they didn’t issue warrants for previous leaders for the genocide Ion.want.uu (talk) 16:05, 27 November 2024 (UTC)

• Oppose, obviously. Article needs updating: does not currently mention it. Tight faded male arse. Decadence and anarchy. A certain style. Smile. 16:13, 27 November 2024 (UTC)
• Oppose on quality per above. Article needs to be updated. Otherwise I support on notability. We've effectively established by precedent that ICC arrest warrants for world leaders are ITN-worthy, and Aung Hlaing is the de facto head of state of Myanmar. Flip^andFlopped ツ 16:37, 27 November 2024 (UTC)

Striking my support on notability - took too much faith that the original blurb was accurate when this is apparently not the case. Flip^andFlopped ツ 19:27, 27 November 2024 (UTC)

• Support on notability.VR _{(Please ping on reply)} 17:43, 27 November 2024 (UTC)
• Oppose The source listed above says plainly that "the chief prosecutor of the international criminal court (ICC) is seeking an arrest warrant ... A panel of three ICC judges must now rule on the prosecutor’s request." So, an arrest warrant has not yet been issued. This is the second recent example of failure to get the basic facts right. Tsk. Andrew🐉(talk) 17:50, 27 November 2024 (UTC)
• Oppose per Andrew. This was the same case with the warrants for the Israeli leaders - they submitted a request mid-year, and it was only granted in the last month. --Masem (t) 17:52, 27 November 2024 (UTC)
• Oppose "seeks arrest warrant" is not the same as issuing an arrest warrant. Natg 19 (talk) 17:56, 27 November 2024 (UTC)
• Oppose per Andrew. We should wait until a warrant is formally granted. The Kip ^(contribs) 19:23, 27 November 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

(Closed) 2024 WBSC Premier12 Championship

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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Article: 2024 WBSC Premier12 (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ In baseball, Chinese Taipei wins the 2024 WBSC Premier12. (Post)
News source(s): Al Jazeera RFi AFP Reuters
Credits:

• Nominated by Meganinja202 (talk · give credit)

Article needs updating

 Meganinja202 (talk) 08:06, 27 November 2024 (UTC)

• This is not in WP:ITNR. I'm unmarking that.—Bagumba (talk) 08:13, 27 November 2024 (UTC)

  No problem, I am not used with templates, so i added that by accident Meganinja202 (talk) 08:33, 27 November 2024 (UTC)

• Oppose. This article needs a game summary for this. Moraljaya67 (talk) — Preceding undated comment added 11:44, 27 November 2024 (UTC)
• Oppose Importance is unclear; article contains practically no prose. Black Kite (talk) 12:21, 27 November 2024 (UTC)
• Oppose both on quality and importance. The article has almost no prose, just tables and lists. This is a new competition (only the third time held) with highly questionable significance. The previous edition was held five years ago and was merely a qualifying process for baseball at the Olympics. This year's rosters are full of minor league and free agent players; players in the world's top leagues did not take part. There seems to have been little interest from broadcasters or mainstream media. I don't see a case for posting this, let alone adding it to ITNR (as proposed on the talk page). Modest Genius ^talk 13:10, 27 November 2024 (UTC)

  Players in the world's non-MLB top leagues did took part, it had players from NPB, KBO, CPBL, Venezuela Winter League Mexican Summer and Winter leaguesk, not mentioning MLB prospects and former players such as Didi Gregorius.

  Broadcasting wise, the tournament had deals for TV (including Free to Air) in Asia and Central America, for outside those regions had a global deal with DAZN.

  While most USA media seems that had not covered beacuse isnt MLB (as the bias you seems to show), the tournament was covered by local TV/media of the participating countries and reigion agencies such as Kyodo News and Yonhap News Agency . Meganinja202 (talk) 19:08, 27 November 2024 (UTC)

  More Japanese tuned in on the 2024 World Series mid-morning to watch Shohei Ohtani than this tournament.

  More Japanese tuned in to watch the 2024 Japan Series as well. I'm interested as the Japan roster includes players that were participating in the Climax Series and the aforementioned Japan Series. Did players like Ryoya Kurihara play in here as well? Howard the Duck (talk) 02:51, 28 November 2024 (UTC)

  Yes, some players that played in Climax Series and Japan Series were in 2024 WBSC Premier12 rosters , not just Ryoya Kurihara, but also Chusei Mannami and Shugo Maki (a BayStars capitan that played in 2023 WBC) was there. Althoout Premier12 is mostly used to test new players for the next WBC.

  Ohtani is by far is the most popular Japanese player right now so anything with him on it will surpass something that has not, 2023 Word Baseball Classic Final was more popular than 2023 World Series there, this year all World Series games were shown in FTA TV only beacuse Ohtani was on it, most of years those games are thrown into NHK BS only and often cut out by BS programing.

  As Premier12 ratings, they were above average even with Prime Video Sports showing it, a exemple was that the final match had over 17% average nad top 21% in Japan meanwhile, one of the Samurai Japan soccer teams before P12 was 15% average with 17% top., as reference, any rating above 10% is considered good rating in Japan nowadays. Meganinja202 (talk) 06:15, 28 November 2024 (UTC)

Comment have we posted this championship before for other years? Scuba 15:55, 27 November 2024 (UTC)

• No, because it's not important enough to do so. Black Kite (talk) 18:03, 27 November 2024 (UTC)

But all significant posted events needed a first at some point. —Bagumba (talk) 19:59, 27 November 2024 (UTC)

Looks like this has been a thing since 2015, can't claim it's a new thing that just needs to be normalized. Scuba 23:25, 27 November 2024 (UTC)

it is a new tournament but is already stabilized, Baseball went various reforms during last decade, World Baseball Classic replacing the old Baseball World Cup and becoming main major international championship alongside the creation of Premier12 as the replacement of the old Intercontinental Cup.

as mentioned before it was so much of success that was used as olympic qualifier and is the event that gives more points for the WBSC World Rankings even more than the Classic. Meganinja202 (talk) 23:55, 27 November 2024 (UTC)

There's no "claim it's a new thing". It'd be ultra-restrictive to effectively say that if something wasn't nominated and successfully posted its very first year of existence that it's henceforth banned from posting. Window closed. The end. Or what if it wasn't hypothetically notable until now? Judge it on today's merits. —Bagumba (talk) 15:51, 28 November 2024 (UTC)

• Oppose on notability as well as quality. No evidence this meets WP:ITNSIGNIF. Joseph2302 (talk) 19:10, 27 November 2024 (UTC)
• Comment With sports events what is not on ITNR I believe we should strongly avoid unless shown otherwise (I don't think it has been here). Though I would like to point out the usage of Chinese Taipei, I am not sure if the term has ever been posted to ITN but such a political term shouldn't go without a qualifier; at a glance it would appear to a reader to do something with the PRC when it pertains to the ROC, as such a parantheses with Taiwan should exist for such cases. Gotitbro (talk) 02:19, 28 November 2024 (UTC)

  It was used only for elections, not for sports as far i remember

  That said i am in favor of the use of the Taiwan term to be used beacuse of common name, i was in doubt if i should use or not since of the highest stantards ITN tends to have, so i went with team name just in case Meganinja202 (talk) 08:59, 28 November 2024 (UTC)

  "Chinese Taipei" is the typical name for sports per Chinese Taipei, e.g. Chinese Taipei at the 2024 Summer Olympics —Bagumba (talk) 15:41, 28 November 2024 (UTC)

• Support notability top global competition in a global sport. Just because it hasn't been posted before doesn't mean we can't do so, and basing notability on TV viewing figures is pointless as they are often incorrect, viewership us difficult to measure, and popularity doesn't stem from TV anymore. Abcmaxx (talk) 09:15, 28 November 2024 (UTC)
• Support on notability - genuinely global event, organised by a recognised authority in the sport in question, which is one with a global following even though two countries tend to dominate the headlines. But oppose on quality, as the article lacks sufficient prose narrative, and in places has tense problems implying that the tournament is yet to occur or still going on. GenevieveDEon (talk) 19:54, 28 November 2024 (UTC)

  Someone had done edits to the tense since you had posted it, you can check again and see if any more changes are necessary about it? Meganinja202 (talk) 00:39, 29 November 2024 (UTC)

• Oppose. The top international baseball competition is the World Baseball Classic. The Premier12 does not include MLB players so it really ISN'T a top level competition in the sport, IMO. DarkSide830 (talk) 05:48, 30 November 2024 (UTC)

  Both are on the same senior international level, while WBC is the World Cup equivalent, P12 is the Confederations/Intercontinental Cup equivalent, so is on top level of importancy, also both are sanctioned by WBSC.

  Also have a team with MLB-only players doesnt give you the WBC title as shown by Japanese Team roster in 2023 having mostly NPB players. Meganinja202 (talk) 09:07, 30 November 2024 (UTC)

  I mean, Japan winning is irrelevant. My point is the Premier12 is effectively just the WBC without MLB players (aka most of the best players in the world, acknowledging a few NPB and one or two KBO players likely make this cut). It's not nearly the headline-grabber that the WBC is and much less hyped. I love baseball and did some Premier12-related editing on some pages. I don't think you can make the soccer comp though seeing as it's such a massive outlier as far as global sport popularity goes. Very few sports we have at ITN/R have several different international competitions like this in play. DarkSide830 (talk) 04:22, 1 December 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

November 26

Portal:Current events/2024 November 26

November 26, 2024 (2024-11-26) (Tuesday) Armed conflicts and attacks Israel–Hezbollah conflict 2024 Israeli invasion of Lebanon 2024 Israel–Lebanon ceasefire agreement The Security Cabinet of Israel agrees to a 60-day ceasefire in Lebanon. (CNN) (The Times of Israel) U.S President Joe Biden announces that the ceasefire has been accepted. (CNBC) For the first time since the start of the conflict, the Israeli military issues evacuation orders for central Beirut, warning residents of four neighbourhoods to leave as soon as possible. (The Times of Israel) Airstrikes are carried out by the Israeli Air Force across several areas of Beirut, Lebanon, hitting at least 20 locations and resulting in several casualties. (Euronews) Russian invasion of Ukraine Eastern front of the Russian invasion of Ukraine Battle of Kurakhove Russian forces enter the city of Kurakhove in Donetsk Oblast, Ukraine, with heavy fighting reportedly underway. (Al Arabiya) Somali Civil War Puntland–Somaliland dispute Las Anod conflict Somaliland imposes a curfew following a clash between soldiers and civilians that resulted in nine deaths and many injuries in Erigavo, Sanaag, Somaliland. (Idil News) (Hiiraan Online) (Horseed Media) Arrest of Imran Khan Six people, including four paramilitary soldiers, are killed in clashes between security forces and supporters of former Pakistani Prime Minister Imran Khan in Islamabad. The protesters, led by Khan's Pakistan Tehreek-e-Insaf party, are calling for Khan's immediate release from prison. (Reuters) Unidentified gunmen ambush a group of motorcycle taxis returning from a religious ceremony in Bria, Haute-Kotto, Central African Republic, killing 10 people. (AP) Business and economy 2021–present United Kingdom cost-of-living crisis Multinational car manufacturing company Stellantis announces that it will close its van-production factory in Luton, England, putting 1,100 jobs at risk, citing the UK's economic conditions and the government's zero-emission vehicle (ZEV) mandate as reasons for its closure. (The Guardian) Disasters and accidents 2024 Red Sea tourist boat disaster Four people are found dead and five others are rescued from a tourist boat that sank yesterday off the coast of Marsa Alam, Red Sea Governorate, Egypt. Seven others are still missing. (The Guardian) Winter of 2024–25 in the Gaza Strip A winter storm floods refugee camps across the Gaza Strip, leading to several thousands of shelters being damaged or destroyed, and worsening refugee exposure to cold and illness. (Reuters) Five people are killed and 20 others are reported missing when a motorboat capsizes in Warri, Delta State, Nigeria. (Reuters) Five people are killed and another is in critical condition when a Cessna 206 Stationair aircraft crashes into the Pico Blanco mountain near San José, Costa Rica. (DW) (The Tico Times) Law and crime Censorship in Iraq The Iraqi Ministry of Communications blocks access to the IMDb website, citing concerns of "immoral content". (Intellinews) (Shafaq News) LGBT rights in Hong Kong Chief justice Andrew Cheung of the Hong Kong Court of Final Appeal rules to uphold housing and inheritance rights for same-sex couples in the city. (Al Jazeera) Politics and elections The Bangladesh Police fire tear gas at more than 2,000 Hindus protesting in Chittagong, Bangladesh, against the arrest of Chinmoy Krishna Das, a Hindu leader and ISKCON monk, on sedition charges. One is killed, and 27 are injured. (Hindustan Times) (Al Jazeera) (The Times of India) Science and technology Japanese space program JAXA aborts an Epsilon S engine test after a fire occurs at the Tanegashima Space Center in Kagoshima Prefecture, Japan. (DW) (CNA) Social media platform Bluesky says it will comply with rules set by the European Union after being accused of violating digital regulations under the Digital Services Act. (Luxemburg Times) (Bloomberg)

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RD: Shalom Nagar

Article: Shalom Nagar (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): BBC
Credits:

• Created and nominated by Jonathan Deamer (talk · give credit)

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Known for executing war criminal and Nazi Party official Adolf Eichmann by hanging. Jonathan Deamer (talk) 19:38, 28 November 2024 (UTC)

• Note this article has been nominated for AFD. Until that is resolved, I don't believe we can post this. Joseph2302 (talk) 22:11, 29 November 2024 (UTC)
  • So far only KEEP votes at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Shalom Nagar. --PFHLai (talk) 13:24, 1 December 2024 (UTC)

Support I think this is actually good enough to post. The only issue is the AfD tag, but all the votes are keep so far. 98.170.164.88 (talk) 18:07, 3 December 2024 (UTC)

(Posted) RD: Earl Holliman

Article: Earl Holliman (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The Hollywood Reporter
Credits:

• Nominated by TDKR Chicago 101 (talk · give credit)

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Article updated and well sourced. Death announced on this date. --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 23:56, 26 November 2024 (UTC)

Support no quality issues. Aydoh8^[contribs] 00:43, 27 November 2024 (UTC)

• Support. All sourced. Looks good to me. 🛧Midori No Sora♪🛪 ( ☁＝☁＝✈) 13:46, 27 November 2024 (UTC)

Support properly cited. no quality issues. Scuba 15:54, 27 November 2024 (UTC)

• Support - Well sourced, no tags, ready to post. Jusdafax (talk) 16:48, 27 November 2024 (UTC)
• Posted to RD. Spencer^T•C 07:11, 28 November 2024 (UTC)

(Posted) Israel-Lebanon Ceasefire

Article: 2024 Israel–Lebanon ceasefire agreement (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Israel and Lebanon agree to a 60-day ceasefire agreement to halt the war in Lebanon (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ Israel and Hezbollah agree to a a 60-day ceasefire agreement to halt the the war in Lebanon
News source(s): CBS
Credits:

• Nominated by Knightoftheswords281 (talk · give credit)
• Created by Noble Attempt (talk · give credit)
• Updated by Noble Attempt (talk · give credit)

Nominator's comments: A ceasefire agreement between the two countries is expected to enter into force tomorrow. Article seems decent. — Knightoftheswords 20:38, 26 November 2024 (UTC)

• Support A major development. If the ceasefire agreement is actually implemented in the manner claimed by Netanyahu and Biden, it would mean the reclamation of control by the Lebanese army and effectively the end of Hezbollah military dominance in most of southern Lebanon. I am fine to wait until tomorrow if necessary to see if the ceasefire agreement is ultimately accepted by all parties - but assuming it is successfully entered into, then this should be posted. Flip^andFlopped ツ 20:53, 26 November 2024 (UTC)
• Oppose on quality only. The background has far too much focus on the conflict where this should use summaries more and point to relevant pages via main/seealso templates. There should be more on the past efforts to organize a ceasefire, including nations involved (here, this being US and France). Masem (t) 21:14, 26 November 2024 (UTC)
• Support First ceasefire since the start of the conflict over a year ago, and is a major development of the conflict. TheHiddenCity (talk) 22:33, 26 November 2024 (UTC)

•Support Regardless if the attempted ceasefire is successful or not. This is a historical development to the conflict. Rager7 (talk) 23:34, 26 November 2024 (UTC)

Support per above. This is a major development in the conflict, even if the conflict itself is covered by ongoing. --MtPenguinMonster (talk) 00:41, 27 November 2024 (UTC)

Support - suggest Alt Blurb Shouldn't it technically be a ceasefire between Israel and Hezbollah (not lebanon) this is how most RS are noting it. Schwinnspeed (talk) 03:51, 27 November 2024 (UTC)

• Wait for ceasefire to formally go into effect, then support altblurb per Schwinnspeed. The Kip ^(contribs) 04:02, 27 November 2024 (UTC)

  It formally went into effect two hours ago. 98.170.164.88 (talk) 04:30, 27 November 2024 (UTC)

• Support Alt blurb. -Ad Orientem (talk) 04:05, 27 November 2024 (UTC)
• Support original blurb, not alt blurb. CNN reports "Israel and Lebanon have accepted a US-backed proposal"[5]. Lebanon is a party to this agreement (as noted in the article itself), and the Lebanese army taking control south of the Litani is a major part of this agreement. L'Orient Today, a major Lebanese newspaper, also presented the full text of the "cease-fire agreement between Israel and Lebanon"[6], and several points of the agreement relate specifically to the Lebanese government.VR _{(Please ping on reply)} 05:20, 27 November 2024 (UTC)

  @Vice regent:: The vast majority of reliable news sources specify Hezbollah in their headlines, here are just a few: Washington Post, New York Times, BBC, Reuters, [NBC]. It feels like an important distinction for ITN. Schwinnspeed (talk) 05:30, 27 November 2024 (UTC)

  Firstly, headlines are not reliable. Secondly, plenty of sources characterize this as "Israel and Lebanon" ceasefire: Atlantic Council, UN news, Politico, Axios, LA Times etc. Thirdly, looking deeper into the sources makes it clear that the Israeli government, Lebanese government and Hezbollah leadership are all parties to this agreement. One could argue that "Lebanon" is accurate, since all Hezbollah members are Lebanese citizens. Some potential compromises would be to say "Israel and Lebanon, including Hezbollah, agree to..." or "The Israeli and Lebanese governments, and Hezbollah agree to..." VR _{(Please ping on reply)} 08:48, 27 November 2024 (UTC)

• Oppose - if there was an armistice, but given the history of ceasefires in past conflicts, this may not be that significant. Especially with reports that Israel warning Lebanese civilians not to return to the south. In the meantime, this is covered by ongoing. Nfitz (talk) 05:10, 27 November 2024 (UTC)
• Also, the article to link for the current war in Lebanon should be 2024 Israeli invasion of Lebanon, as per consensus here.VR _{(Please ping on reply)} 05:15, 27 November 2024 (UTC)
• Support A possible flagpole of the war. ArionStar (talk) 12:12, 27 November 2024 (UTC)

Support Blurb I: Historic end to Hezbollah's control of the south (for now at least) Prodrummer619 (talk) 13:02, 27 November 2024 (UTC)

• Support altblurb in principle. Widely reported news which should bring the fighting to at least a temporary halt on one front. The altblurb is more accurate than the original. However I have two concerns with the article: a) The 'background' section has sparse references; because this is a controversial topic that should be improved, especially when discussing motivations. I'm not a fan of mirroring a section from another article, but if that's the approach taken it will require fixing on the mirrored article. b) The lead indicates that this is a permanent ceasefire, but the body (and nominated blurb) both say it's only for 60 days. Those should be made consistent. Modest Genius ^talk 14:23, 27 November 2024 (UTC)

Support alt not seeing any glaring problems with the article. Scuba 15:49, 27 November 2024 (UTC)

• Posted, but more concisely, avoiding "agree to an agreement". Sandstein 20:31, 27 November 2024 (UTC)

RD: Jim Abrahams

Article: Jim Abrahams (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Deadline Hollywood
Credits:

• Nominated by Masem (talk · give credit)

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: part of the Zucker, Abrahams, Zucker trio that produced comedy films like Airplane! Article needs more sources Masem (t) 19:40, 26 November 2024 (UTC)

Oppose for now as nom said, the article is in need of more sources and is currently orange tagged. If these issues are fixed, please ping me and I will change my vote accordingly. Aydoh8^[contribs] 00:45, 27 November 2024 (UTC)

Oppose orange tag, vast swaths of the article are uncited. Scuba 15:53, 27 November 2024 (UTC)

Article is a stub, and we don't post stubs. Schwede66 07:13, 28 November 2024 (UTC)

• Only 260 words of prose and existing materials are not well sourced. Please expand a bit more and add more REFs. --PFHLai (talk) 17:05, 1 December 2024 (UTC)

(Posted) RD: John Tinniswood

Article: John Tinniswood (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): [[7]], [[8]]
Credits:

• Nominated by Julius Barclay (talk · give credit)

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: World's oldest man, oldest surviving World War II Veteran, died Monday aged 112. Was oldest man since 29 June 2024. Julius Barclay (talk) 15:05, 26 November 2024 (UTC)

• Support RIP. No quality issues that I could find. Aydoh8^[contribs] 00:38, 27 November 2024 (UTC)
• Support Meets ITN standards. No citation issues or anything like that. ❤HistoryTheorist❤ 04:50, 27 November 2024 (UTC)
• Support Article looks good. --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 06:32, 27 November 2024 (UTC)
• Support Notable, no issues, Article in the news, so postable. ExclusiveEditor _{Notify Me!} 11:27, 27 November 2024 (UTC)

  The one time "old man dies" is actually an argument in favour of posting. 147.161.133.85 (talk) 15:52, 28 November 2024 (UTC)

  The "old man dies" argument is usually used by people against posting blurbs, as RD doesn't have the same notability requirements of ITN. Aydoh8^[contribs] 03:32, 30 November 2024 (UTC)

Support no problems Scuba 15:53, 27 November 2024 (UTC)

• Posted to RD. Spencer^T•C 07:10, 28 November 2024 (UTC)

RD: Jan Furtok

Article: Jan Furtok (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Polish Radio
Credits:

• Nominated by Abcmaxx (talk · give credit)

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: The article could be easily expanded, doesn't convey nearly enough that he was one of Poland’s best ever players. Abcmaxx (talk) 17:25, 26 November 2024 (UTC)

Support no immediate quality issues. Aydoh8^[contribs] 00:37, 27 November 2024 (UTC)

• Oppose Insufficient depth of coverage, needs expansion in prose. Spencer^T•C 04:07, 27 November 2024 (UTC)
• Oppose For someone who played for the national team for nearly ten years, the career section is quite short. --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 06:56, 27 November 2024 (UTC)

Soft support sure the article could use some expansion, but the content that is there is of a high enough quality to post. Scuba 15:52, 27 November 2024 (UTC)

• Ohmygoodness Soft support sounds so much better than weak support, it's so 2020s. I'm gonna use that from now on.--Ouro (blah blah) 06:05, 28 November 2024 (UTC)

• Now with 340 words of prose. Time for a re-review? Is there a source for the second table in the Career statistics section? --PFHLai (talk) 17:10, 1 December 2024 (UTC)

November 25

Portal:Current events/2024 November 25

November 25, 2024 (2024-11-25) (Monday) Armed conflicts and attacks Haitian crisis The United Nations orders its staff to evacuate from Port-au-Prince, Haiti, as clashes between armed gangs, police, and civilian vigilantes escalate in the city. Nonprofit organization Food for the Poor also ceases operations in Haiti due to gang disruptions. (Al Jazeera) Business and economy German economic crisis Germany's largest steelmaker conglomerate, ThyssenKrupp, announces plans to layoff 11,000 workers, including 5,000 in Europe, by 2030. (DW) Disasters and accidents 2024–25 Australian region cyclone season Sixteen people are killed and six others are missing in flash floods caused by Tropical Low 01U in Sumatra, Indonesia. (AP) (The Irish Examiner) 2024 Red Sea tourist boat disaster Sixteen people are missing and 28 others are rescued after a boat carrying tourists sinks off the coast of Marsa Alam, Red Sea Governorate, Egypt. (BBC News) Swiftair Flight 5960 One crew member is killed and three others are injured when a DHL Boeing 737-400F cargo plane operated by Swiftair crashes into the ground near a residential building while approaching Vilnius Airport in Lithuania. No one on the ground is injured. (Reuters) (DW) Nine migrants, including six children, are killed and 39 others are rescued from a shipwreck off the coast of Samos, Greece. (Al Jazeera) (The Express Tribune) International relations Afghanistan–Russia relations Secretary of the Security Council of Russia Sergei Shoigu pledges Russia's intent to build closer ties with the Taliban Government of Afghanistan, and states that the United States should lead rebuilding efforts due to its part in the War in Afghanistan. (Reuters) Foreign ministers of the G7 nations hold a meeting in Fiuggi and Anagni, Italy, to discuss ceasefire efforts between Israel and Lebanon as well as the International Criminal Court's arrest warrants for Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and Hamas military chief Mohammed Deif. (Digital Journal) Law and crime Censorship in Australia Australian Parliament vetoes a bill that would authorize the Australian Communications and Media Authority to implement detailed surveillance on digital platforms and enforce anti-misinformation punitive measures on them, which opposition politicians condemn as "censorship laws" and a betrayal to democracy. (AP) Indictments against Donald Trump U.S. federal judge Tanya Chutkan of the District Court for the District of Columbia dismisses the two criminal cases by Jack Smith against President-elect Donald Trump, including the classified documents case and the case involving Trump's efforts to overturn his defeat to President Joe Biden in the 2020 presidential election. (CBS News) (Politico) Five people are killed in a mass shooting in Saint Andrew, Kingston, Jamaica. (AP) Politics and elections 2024 Jubaland presidential election The Jubaland House of Representatives re-elects incumbent President Ahmed Madobe for the third time amid tensions with the Somali federal government that resulted in armed forces being deployed to Kamboni, Badhadhe District, Lower Juba, Somalia. (AFP) (Garowe Online) (The Eastleigh Voice) Science and technology Microsoft reports widespread outages across Outlook, Teams, and other 365 programs. The outages are later resolved during the evening. (Forbes) (CNN) Sports In auto racing, Formula One announces that General Motors will join the grid as a constructor under the Cadillac Team beginning in the 2026 season. (Formula 1) (Front Office Sports) In cricket, batter Vaibhav Suryavanshi becomes the youngest player to sign with the Indian Premier League at the age of 13. (DW) (Hindustan Times) The World Chess Championship 2024 starts in Singapore, with Ding Liren winning with black against Gukesh Dommaraju. (FIDE)

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(Posted) RD: Peggy Caserta

Article: Peggy Caserta (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): [9]
Credits:

• Created and nominated by TJMSmith (talk · give credit)

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: American businesswoman and memoirist. Died on November 21. Death announced on November 25. TJMSmith (talk) 02:58, 1 December 2024 (UTC)

• Posted Stephen 23:03, 1 December 2024 (UTC)

(Posted) RD: Mike Hasenfratz

Article: Mike Hasenfratz (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): [10][11]
Credits:

• Nominated by Flibirigit (talk · give credit)
• Updated by Pyropylon98 (talk · give credit)

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Former referee in the National Hockey League Flibirigit (talk) 02:50, 26 November 2024 (UTC)

• Support Short but adequate. No serious issues. -Ad Orientem (talk) 03:27, 26 November 2024 (UTC)

  Working on expansion. Flibirigit (talk) 19:25, 26 November 2024 (UTC)

  Significant expansion completed. Flibirigit (talk) 01:47, 28 November 2024 (UTC)

• Support Looks good enough. --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 06:56, 27 November 2024 (UTC)
• Support. No problems found. 🛧Midori No Sora♪🛪 ( ☁＝☁＝✈) 13:44, 27 November 2024 (UTC)

Support no problems Scuba 15:51, 27 November 2024 (UTC)

• Posted to RD. Spencer^T•C 07:08, 28 November 2024 (UTC)

(Posted) RD: Nikki Kaye

Article: Nikki Kaye (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Former National minister Nikki Kaye dies, aged 44
Credits:

• Nominated by Schwede66 (talk · give credit)

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Former New Zealand MP; died aged 44 from cancer. Date of death is not known yet. Schwede66 01:07, 26 November 2024 (UTC)

• Oppose Significant amount of CN tags. 🛧Midori No Sora♪🛪 ( ☁＝☁＝✈) 02:57, 26 November 2024 (UTC)
• Support I have added some references to all but one of the CN tags to improve verifiability. Think article is in good enough shape now. Kiwichris (talk) 05:10, 26 November 2024 (UTC)

Support one outstanding CN tag but I guess we could just remove it if we can't find a source for it. Aydoh8^[contribs] 00:47, 27 November 2024 (UTC)

• Posted to RD. Spencer^T•C 04:03, 27 November 2024 (UTC)

Support I'm not seeing any cn tags, just two whom tags, but considering the length of the article I think that's fine for inclusion in RD. Scuba 15:51, 27 November 2024 (UTC)

(Closed) Swiftair 737 crashes in Lithuania

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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Article: Swiftair Flight 5960 (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ A Swiftair Boeing 737 (accident aircraft pictured) crashes near Vilnius Airport, Lithuania, killing one pilot. (Post)
News source(s): BBC FlightGlobal CNN
Credits:

• Nominated by Aydoh8 (talk · give credit)
• Created by RandomInfinity17 (talk · give credit)

Nominator's comments: Very rare to see an airliner crashing in Europe. No immediate quality issues apart from a UGS tag which could easily be fixed. Edit: it appears to have been fixed. Aydoh8^[contribs] 00:38, 26 November 2024 (UTC)

I'd support this as a testament to the development of airliner crash safety; ten were involved in a crash of a cargo airliner and only one lost their life. Oppose for now because only one person died. Maybe if this becomes a wider incident like the 737 plague it'd be notable but as it is we're to a point where (at least in my opinion) large airplane crashes are not blurb-worthy. Departure– (talk) 01:11, 26 November 2024 (UTC)

• Oppose low number of fatalities/injuries as this was a cargo plane and does not seem like a systemic issue that would cause scrutiny of the aircraft line. Natg 19 (talk) 01:38, 26 November 2024 (UTC)
• Oppose good faith nom. Only a single fatality and the long term significance of this event is doubtful. -Ad Orientem (talk) 03:26, 26 November 2024 (UTC)
• Oppose per above. Thankfully a comparatively minor incident with low casualties. The Kip ^(contribs) 03:58, 26 November 2024 (UTC)
• Support Seems unlikely to be posted but it's in the news and we have a decent article about it. Attracted international coverage. AusLondonder (talk) 12:29, 26 November 2024 (UTC)
• Oppose good faith nom but only 1 fatality and pretty much everything above The AP (talk) 17:26, 26 November 2024 (UTC)

Support it was a cargo plane, the only people on board where the pilots, casualties shouldn't be what keeps this from being posted. Article is of high quality, and this is getting global coverage in the news.

It's a Boeing 737 crash, that alone should warrant inclusion. Scuba 20:07, 26 November 2024 (UTC)

No, it doesn't warrant inclusion just because it's a 737, especially if one cannot tell the difference between a 737-400SF of the second generation 737 Classic series and one of the fourth generation 737 MAX series. -- KTC (talk) 21:50, 27 November 2024 (UTC)

• Oppose - seems relatively minor in the great scheme of things. No prejudice on relisting if it turns out to be a Russian terror attack or something. Nfitz (talk) 05:12, 27 November 2024 (UTC)
• Oppose. We wouldn't post a road crash that caused one death. I don't see any reason to treat this differently just because it involved an aeroplane. Procedurally, the nominated blurb doesn't even link to the article! Modest Genius ^talk 14:27, 27 November 2024 (UTC)
• Leaning Oppose. (edit conflict) Low amount of casualties but other than that, this was mostly a minor incident and sabotage doesn't seem to be the cause for now. It's a relief that there weren't any ground casualties/injuries. It seems that cargo aircraft accidents are rarely posted if the accident was significant enough. For example, Turkish Airlines Flight 6491 was posted due to the high death toll on the ground. Flight 810's nomination was against posting as no one died. Moreover, no one seem to have nominated the crash of Atlas Air Flight 3591 (3 casualties). 🛧Midori No Sora♪🛪 ( ☁＝☁＝✈) 14:32, 27 November 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

(Closed) Trump Charges Dismissed

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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Article: Indictments against Donald Trump (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ All remaining Federal criminal charges against US president-elect Donald Trump are dismissed. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ All remaining Federal criminal charges against US president-elect Donald Trump are dismissed without prejudice due to presidential immunity.
News source(s): AP
Credits:

• Nominated by Ad Orientem (talk · give credit)

Article needs updating

Nominator's comments: Under normal circumstances I would not make or support this nomination. However, most of the indictments were posted on ITN against the very strong objection of some editors both on BLP grounds and the fact that it was contrary to our customary practice of only posting convictions. Under the circumstances, I think we need to take note of what is probably their final disposition. It is receiving front page coverage both in the US and abroad. -Ad Orientem (talk) 23:41, 25 November 2024 (UTC) -Ad Orientem (talk) 23:41, 25 November 2024 (UTC)

I have struck my original blurb in favor of the alt which is much better. -Ad Orientem (talk) 01:02, 26 November 2024 (UTC)

two wrongs don't make a right — hako9 (talk) 23:47, 25 November 2024 (UTC)

True, but this is probably as close as we can get. The indictments should never have been posted and it is my sincere hope that we never do anything like that again. -Ad Orientem (talk) 23:50, 25 November 2024 (UTC)

Oppose - consequence of a story we already posted, Trump winning the presidential election. The idea that a truly unprecedented event, a former president being indicted on criminal charges, should not have been posted is both a personal opinion and not relevant to whether or not this story should be posted. nableezy - 23:54, 25 November 2024 (UTC)

If you are going to post that someone is charged with a crime, and we certainly would have (and in one case correctly did) post any convictions, why would we not post the dismissal of the charges? (Unless the decisions involved were heavily motivated by a strong animus or a desire to right great wrongs.) -Ad Orientem (talk) 00:01, 26 November 2024 (UTC)

Besides the utter lack of AGF in that parentheses, the reason is that one thing was unprecedented and treated as such across the globe, and the other is a predictable consequence of what we already posted. I wont return the favor of failing to AGF in making unsubstantiated claims about the motives of this nomination. And also, despite the claim that there is a probable final disposition of this story here, the charges were dismissed without prejudice, allowing them to be re-filed when Trumps presidency comes to an end. nableezy - 00:08, 26 November 2024 (UTC)

So basically we can announce criminal indictments on the main page of one of the most trafficked websites in the world, and quietly ignore it when they go away? The fact that he was an ex-president is neither here nor there. He was entitled to the basic protections of BLP and we set aside our very longstanding practice of only posting convictions. And FTR my opinion of Donald Trump is unprintable. But I do believe in basic fairness, even for people I detest. I'm not going to relitigate what happened beyond that it was an egregious error that should not be compounded. -Ad Orientem (talk) 00:26, 26 November 2024 (UTC)

It is here and there, that was an unprecedented event in US history. And sources treated it as such. The basic protections of BLP are to not say anything untrue about a public figure, and he was indicted. There was zero BLP issue in saying that. I dgaf what our very longstanding practice is, there is nothing in BLP that says we should not include what is verifiably true. And there is nothing in any guideline that says one of the biggest news stories of the year should not be on our front page section of In the News. BLP does not mean, and has never meant, we cannot include anything negative about a living person, it means we write conservatively and accurately. It was indisputably true that Donald Trump was indicted in several criminal cases and that he was the first former US president in history to have been indicted. There is 0 BLP issue in saying that, not in an article and not on the front page. nableezy - 00:44, 26 November 2024 (UTC)

• Oppose was foregone conclusion as soon as Trump was named the winner. Also a subtlety is that they are being dropped without prejudice, meaning they could be brought up once he is out of office, so it's not the true end of the story. Masem (t) 00:21, 26 November 2024 (UTC)

  It was a forgone conclusion that Trump was going to face criminal indictments. We posted them anyway. -Ad Orientem (talk) 00:27, 26 November 2024 (UTC)

  No it wasn't, we had no way to predict how the grand jury, and Smith's subsequent actions, would go, because they didn't discuss them in public until court filings. Trump said numerous times that he would make the cases go away as president, and the DOJ has a standing policy that they cannot go after a sitting president, so that this happened like this was of zero surprise.. Only that Smith volunteered to end it before Trump took office might not have been part of it but the net result was. Masem (t) 00:32, 26 November 2024 (UTC)

• Strong oppose current blurb If Trump's charges were dismissed on the merits or he was explicitly found not guilty, that would be one thing. Here, however, the blurb is actively misleading: the current phrasing, by omission, makes it sound like the case against Trump was dismissed on the merits. In fact, the opposite is true: the government initiated the motion to dismiss on a without prejudice basis while maintaining the strength of its case. The sole and only reason for this is the constitutional prohibition on prosecuting a sitting president. Per the Government's motion to dismiss: the dismissal "does not turn on the gravity of the crimes charged, the strength of the government's proof, or the merits of the prosecution, which the government stands fully behind". Flip^andFlopped ツ 00:40, 26 November 2024 (UTC)

  Fair point. I tend to try and keep blurbs succinct but have no objections to an alt blurb if you would care to propose one. -Ad Orientem (talk) 00:42, 26 November 2024 (UTC)

And a fair response, Ad Orientem. I have added an alt blurb. I soft support alt blurb. On the one hand, I think that this a foregone conclusion: if he won, this was always going to happen. On the other hand, I am generally an inclusionist when it comes to things making global headlines going on ITN. Given that we posted the indictment, I am inclined to support for reasons of balance. Flip^andFlopped ツ 00:51, 26 November 2024 (UTC)

Upon further review of the target article, I oppose on quality grounds per Andrew Davidson. The target article doesn't contain sufficient explanation & updated information corresponding to the info communicated in the blurb. Flip^andFlopped ツ 15:46, 26 November 2024 (UTC)

Oppose for now per all above. Maybe I'd support if he actually went to prison in this time. Departure– (talk) 01:12, 26 November 2024 (UTC)

• Oppose per MASEM. The process leading to the dismissal of charges was perhaps unexpected, but the fact of the matter is, the ultimate result of these cases with Trump as the sitting president likely wouldn't have had much actual impact, and I'd say the lack of a verdict is of even less impact in the end. DarkSide830 (talk) 01:26, 26 November 2024 (UTC)
• Oppose per all above. The Kip ^(contribs) 06:09, 26 November 2024 (UTC)

  Oppose for the same reasons the 1 July 2024 SCOTUS decision on presidential immunity. Trump winning the presidential election is noteworthy, while this doesn't have the notability for ITN. JohnAdams1800 (talk) 15:52, 26 November 2024 (UTC)

• Comment Procedurally, there's zero mention of this blurb at the bolded target.—Bagumba (talk) 07:09, 26 November 2024 (UTC)
• Oppose The nominated article has not been updated. And that article covers multiple proceedings and some are still open or are now proceeding to sentencing. We shouldn't run a headline saying that all charges have been dismissed when it's more complex than that. Andrew🐉(talk) 08:43, 26 November 2024 (UTC)
• Oppose per all above - wasn't this closed ? The AP (talk) 17:28, 26 November 2024 (UTC)

Oppose why is this still open? Scuba 20:05, 26 November 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

(Closed) 2024 Sambhal Violence, Uttar Pradesh, India

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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Article: 2024 Sambhal Violence (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ At least 4 people died and 30 injuries(20 police), Violent clashes in Uttar Pradesh, India (Post)
News source(s): BBC Indiatoday Timesofindia Economic Times
Credits:

• Nominated by Spworld2 (talk · give credit)

 Spworld2(talk) 17:04, 25 November 2024 (UTC)

changed RD box to normal ITN box --2600:1700:4579:B80:9D1C:5ECE:9EEB:47FD (talk) 10:36, 25 November 2024 (UTC)

• Oppose Without expansion, this seems like a small flare up in a country where such protests and conflicts are commonplace. --Masem (t) 13:25, 25 November 2024 (UTC)
• Oppose Sad to say but such violence and riots are common in India; additionally, it is a small flare-up with only 4 deaths, thus not not worthy of ITN The AP (talk) 13:29, 25 November 2024 (UTC)
• Oppose per all above. Tragic, but commonplace in a country like India. _-_Alsor (talk) 14:30, 25 November 2024 (UTC)
• Comment Undecided on the nom but do we really need three comments belittling the world's largest democracy and trivialising the deaths as "only 4" in a "country like India"? AusLondonder (talk) 14:50, 25 November 2024 (UTC)

  we are stating facts and not because it is “the world's largest democracy” we are not going to give it a special notoriety if they are recurrent events in that country. It is the same parameter we use to judge shootings in the United States or earthquakes in the Philippines. Since this is not a news-ticket portal, we should value it more for notoriety than for newsworthiness. _-_Alsor (talk) 14:58, 25 November 2024 (UTC)

  WP is not a newspaper and not every event, even those involving deaths, necessary need coverage, much less inclusion on the main page. How likely is this going to have enduring coverage and not just a burst of news? — Masem (t) 15:23, 25 November 2024 (UTC)

  I am an Indian myself, and I don't find any interpretation of any comment that is "belittling" the "world's largest democracy." Even though the incident is tragic, it has a low number of fatalities; as such, I didn't find it worthy for ITN. Also to note - such incidents are common and recurring in India sadly so we can't possibly include each of them to ITN The AP (talk) 15:33, 25 November 2024 (UTC)

Soft oppose I'm not seeing this being reported outside of Indian news sources. It's terrible that people have died, but I just don't think this is a major enough event to warrant ITN posting. Scuba 16:38, 25 November 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

2024 Uruguayan general election

Article: 2024 Uruguayan general election (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Yamandú Orsi and the Broad Front wins the runoff to the 2024 Uruguayan general election against Álvaro Delgado and the Republican Coalition. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ Yamandú Orsi (pictured) is elected president of Uruguay
News source(s): Al Jazeera AP News
Credits:

• Nominated by Staraction (talk · give credit)
• Created by Fadesga (talk · give credit)
• Updated by Gbuvn (talk · give credit), Fadesga (talk · give credit), Loveisamoracle (talk · give credit), Segagustin (talk · give credit) and Spaastm (talk · give credit)

The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.

Nominator's comments: I believe this is ITN/R as both a change in the president (according to AP News) and as the results of a general election. Please let me know if I'm missing something; thanks! Staraction (talk | contribs) 03:30, 25 November 2024 (UTC)

Comment Álvaro Delgado is a disambiguation link. I think you mean Álvaro Delgado (politician). 64.114 etc 04:00, 25 November 2024 (UTC)

Fixed - thanks. Staraction (talk | contribs) 07:12, 25 November 2024 (UTC)

• Oppose very little prose on campaign and aftermath. The Kip ^(contribs) 06:36, 25 November 2024 (UTC)
• Oppose on quality Second half of the article is almost entirely tables. Needs more prose to be suitable for ITN. Flip^andFlopped ツ 07:15, 25 November 2024 (UTC)

Soft oppose the article only has a one sentence aftermath section and is mostly tables. It is ITN/R, so once that is cleaned up I'll change my vote. Scuba 16:37, 25 November 2024 (UTC)

(Posted) RD: Breyten Breytenbach

Article: Breyten Breytenbach (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): [12]
Credits:

• Nominated by Plifal (talk · give credit)
• Updated by Laterthanyouthink (talk · give credit)

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Nominator's comments: Important anti-apartheid activist and poet laureate. – Plifal (talk) 17:04, 24 November 2024 (UTC)

• Not Ready. Citation needed tags are in place. 🛧Midori No Sora♪🛪 ( ☁＝☁＝✈) 06:16, 25 November 2024 (UTC)

Soft support I only see one CN tag. Scuba 16:36, 25 November 2024 (UTC)

Support Properly cited. His works are their own citations. Bremps... 20:12, 25 November 2024 (UTC)

Support I have added significantly to this article since yesterday, and although there is no doubt more that could be added, I think it's ready to go. Laterthanyouthink (talk) 00:44, 26 November 2024 (UTC)

Support The article is ready for RD. --MtPenguinMonster (talk) 03:34, 26 November 2024 (UTC)

• Support. No citation needed tags when I looked just a few minutes ago. Putting this onto the main page might lead to some much-needed improvement... -- SashiRolls ^{🌿 · 🍥} 21:05, 26 November 2024 (UTC)

  Note: I've cleaned up the major mess I made, leaving the secondary sources I'd added before suddenly getting terribly confused while reading about translingualism and abandoning a language to write in another... -- SashiRolls ^{🌿 · 🍥} 00:22, 27 November 2024 (UTC)

• Support Seems adequate to me, no CN Tags. Flip^andFlopped ツ 22:56, 26 November 2024 (UTC)
• Posted to RD. Spencer^T•C 04:00, 27 November 2024 (UTC)

November 24

Portal:Current events/2024 November 24

November 24, 2024 (2024-11-24) (Sunday) Armed conflicts and attacks Israel–Hezbollah conflict 2024 Israeli invasion of Lebanon 2024 Basta airstrikes The death toll from yesterday's airstrike in Basta, Beirut, Lebanon, increases to 29 with 67 others injured. (Al Jazeera) 2024 Tyre airstrikes Israeli artillery targets a Lebanese Army base in Tyre District, Lebanon, killing one soldier and injuring 18 others. (Reuters) Hezbollah launches over 300 missiles at Israel, targeting the Ashdod Naval Base in Ashdod for the first time and injuring eleven people. (Al Jazeera) Israel–Hamas war Israeli invasion of the Gaza Strip At least six people are killed in Israeli attacks across the Gaza Strip, one in the Nuseirat refugee camp, two in the Maghazi refugee camp, and three in Rafah. The Israel Defense Forces issue a new evacuation order in Shuja'iyya, Gaza City. (Al Jazeera) Law and crime 2024 Pakistani general election, Arrest of Imran Khan Pakistani police arrest thousands of supporters of jailed former Prime Minister Imran Khan ahead of a planned protest to demand for the release of Khan and other members of the Pakistan Tehreek-e-Insaf party, along with the resignation of the current government. The capital city of Pakistan, Islamabad, is placed under a security lockdown before the protest takes place. (DW) (RNZ) Death of Zvi Kogan Missing Israeli-Moldovan rabbi Zvi Kogan is found murdered in the United Arab Emirates, with three Uzbek nationals later arrested for the murder. (The New York Times) (The Washington Times) LGBTQ rights in Russia Russian President Vladimir Putin signs a bill into law banning the adoption of Russian children by citizens of countries where gender transition is legal. The bill also outlaws material that promotes childlessness. (AP) Masrour Barzani, the Prime Minister of Kurdistan Region, Iraq, vehemently criticizes Iraq's proposed legislation to lower the legal age of marriage to nine, labeling it a severe regression in women's rights. (Al Arabiya) Six people are killed and five others are injured after a mass shooting at a bar in Villahermosa, Tabasco, Mexico. (AP) An unidentified gunman injures three police officers near the Israeli embassy in Amman, Jordan, before being shot dead. (Reuters) Politics and elections 2024 Romanian presidential election The first round of the presidential elections in Romania takes place, to determine which two candidates will compete against each other in the second round on December 8. (Euronews) Independent candidate Călin Georgescu and Save Romania Union candidate Elena Lasconi win the first round and pass onto the second round on 8 December. (Libertatea) 2024 Uruguayan general election Uruguayans vote in the second round of the general election to elect a president between Yamandú Orsi and Álvaro Delgado. (Reuters) The ruling National Party concedes defeat as Broad Front candidate Yamandú Orsi wins the election with 52% of the vote. Over 5% of the votes were invalid, a record high for Uruguay. (DW) (TIME) 2024 Swiss referendums Residents of Switzerland vote on four national issues, including a highly debated expansion programme for national highways. (The Federal Council) (Swiss Info) Swiss voters approve of a measure to institute a new healthcare model, while rejecting measures to build larger motorways, institute easier evictions, and stricter regulations on subletting properties. (SwissInfo) (Euronews) Censorship in Israel The government of Israel approves a resolution to cut ties with and impose sanctions on the Israeli newspaper Haaretz, after the newspaper ran "many articles that hurt the legitimacy of the State of Israel and its right to self-defence". (Al Jazeera) Sports 2024 ATP Tour 2024 Davis Cup In tennis, Italy wins their third Davis Cup title after Matteo Berrettini and Jannik Sinner defeat Botic van de Zandschulp and Tallon Griekspoor of the Netherlands in the final. (The Athletic) 2024 WBSC Premier12 In baseball, Chinese Taipei defeated Japan 4-0 in the finals of the WBSC Premier 12, winning the first title of the top three international baseball tournaments in its history. (Taipei Times) 2024 World Rally Championship In rally motorsport, Thierry Neuville of Hyundai wins the World Rally Drivers' Championship at Rally Japan, his first world title in the sport. (France 24)

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(Posted) RD: Siegfried Thiele

Article: Siegfried Thiele (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Leipziger Volkszeitung
Credits:

• Nominated by Gerda Arendt (talk · give credit)
• Created by LouisAlain (talk · give credit)
• Updated by Grimes2 (talk · give credit) and Gerda Arendt (talk · give credit)

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

German composer and educator, who taught at the (now) Leipzig Music University from 1962 to 2004, from 1990 to 1997 as its rector. Article was mostly there, just needed refs. More about his music would be nice, but his key influence was teaching. Sadly the only notice of his death so far is paywalled, but the rest is covered by solid encyclopedias. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 17:29, 30 November 2024 (UTC)

• Marked as ready. Everything is cited to a realiable source. No issues found. Flibirigit (talk) 02:16, 1 December 2024 (UTC)
• Posted to RD. Spencer^T•C 12:17, 1 December 2024 (UTC)

RD: Colin Renfrew

Article: Colin Renfrew (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The Telegraph
Credits:

• Nominated by 240F:7A:6253:1:98F0:B089:1413:EFBE (talk · give credit)

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: British archaeologist. 240F:7A:6253:1:98F0:B089:1413:EFBE (talk) 06:01, 26 November 2024 (UTC)

• Oppose Article needs major ref work. --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 06:06, 26 November 2024 (UTC)
• Too many footnote-free paragraphs and unsourced bullet-points. Please add more REFs. --PFHLai (talk) 07:41, 30 November 2024 (UTC)

RD: Bruce Thompson (Georgia politician)

Article: Bruce Thompson (Georgia politician) (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): [13]
Credits:

• Nominated by Muboshgu (talk · give credit)

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

 – Muboshgu (talk) 17:56, 25 November 2024 (UTC)

• Comment: Pretty close, however only has 1 sentence about what he accomplished in each of his political roles ("Thompson became the chair of the economic development and tourism committee" and "Thompson's office reported finding $105 million of unremitted state money which should have been turned over to the state treasury in August 2023".) Not sure if there's anything that can be added for additional depth? Spencer^T•C 03:57, 27 November 2024 (UTC)

(Posted) RD: Barbara Taylor Bradford

Article: Barbara Taylor Bradford (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The Times of India
Credits:

• Nominated by Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk · give credit)
• Updated by Lajmmoore (talk · give credit) and Innisfree987 (talk · give credit)

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: British-American novelist Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 15:59, 25 November 2024 (UTC)

Soft support: Adaptations uncited, two cn tags, and a bit of a prose problem, but otherwise the article looks fine. Scuba 16:35, 25 November 2024 (UTC)

• Oppose No need to be so soft with it. Two CN tags, and a completely unsourced Selected works section mean that this article needs work before it can be posted. Cheers, atque supra! Fakescientist8000 19:46, 25 November 2024 (UTC)
• support I've fixed the cn tags and have added references to all the selected works listed Lajmmoore (talk) 23:04, 26 November 2024 (UTC)
• Oppose per article quality. SerialNumber54129 23:08, 26 November 2024 (UTC)

  comment I left a note about this nomination at Wikiproject Women in Red Lajmmoore (talk) 11:49, 29 November 2024 (UTC)

  May I ask what the quality concern is @Serial Number 54129? Maybe I can help. Innisfree987 (talk) 20:27, 29 November 2024 (UTC)

• Support. I’ve done some work on the lead and can’t see where else this falls short of our usual standards so I think it’s ready. Innisfree987 (talk) 23:23, 29 November 2024 (UTC)
• Posted to RD. Spencer^T•C 06:04, 30 November 2024 (UTC)

(Posted) RD: Rico Carty

Article: Rico Carty (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): [14]
Credits:

• Nominated by Muboshgu (talk · give credit)

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

 – Muboshgu (talk) 17:04, 24 November 2024 (UTC)

• Not Ready. Several sentences still require the usual. Post-Posting Support, Resolved. 🛧Midori No Sora♪🛪 ( ☁＝☁＝✈) 06:17, 25 November 2024 (UTC)

  @Midori No Sora; should be solved :). Kline • talk • contribs 14:44, 25 November 2024 (UTC)

• Support - looks good now! ✈ mike_gigs ^talk_contribs 15:34, 25 November 2024 (UTC)

Support article looks fine. Scuba 16:34, 25 November 2024 (UTC)

• Posted to RD. Spencer^T•C 17:23, 25 November 2024 (UTC)

COP29

Article: 2024 United Nations Climate Change Conference (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ COP29 concludes with an agreement on finance for developing nations to help them address and mitigate climate change. (Post)
News source(s): NYT, Reuters, BBC
Credits:

• Nominated by Andrew Davidson (talk · give credit)
• Created by Arcahaeoindris (talk · give credit)
• Updated by Kirkylad (talk · give credit) and Toghrul R (talk · give credit)

Article updated

Nominator's comments: Neither the conference nor our article seem impressive but we should consider the topic while we are planning to promote multiple motor racing events (1, 2, 3). It's certainly in the news and significant. Andrew🐉(talk) 09:24, 24 November 2024 (UTC)

What relevance do the Motorsports items have to this, beyond ye olde “sports r dumb” comment? The Kip ^(contribs) 09:43, 24 November 2024 (UTC)

They all use fossil fuels. The conference agreed a statement about transitioning away from fossil fuels despite opposition from countries like Saudi Arabia. Andrew🐉(talk) 09:54, 24 November 2024 (UTC)

Ugh, this is irrelevant to whether this conference should get posted or not. We should be considering each event individually on their own merits. I am personally neutral on this nomination, as I do not know much about COP. Natg 19 (talk) 10:09, 24 November 2024 (UTC)

FYI, the similar COP28 conference was posted last year. See nomination. Andrew🐉(talk) 12:19, 24 November 2024 (UTC)

Which at least was a commitment to direct action to reduce factors impacting climate change. Funding aspects like this year's is not a direct action. Masem (t) 16:29, 25 November 2024 (UTC)

So true dude... we should outlaw all motorsports because Palau said so or something idk. Scuba 18:43, 25 November 2024 (UTC)

• Support: Article looks good and well cited. Moraljaya67 (talk)
• Oppose on quality, at least. Article may be well sourced but is a mess in terms of tenses (a lot of future tense). In terms of significance, I'm not sure if this result is really as impactful as something like the Paris agreement to merit posting. --Masem (t) 13:30, 24 November 2024 (UTC)

  Oppose on quality per above. I'm neutral, leaning support on notability. The title really should be COP29 though, Climate Change has always and will always be brought here only to not be posted. Departure– (talk) 14:06, 24 November 2024 (UTC)

Fixed the headline. Brandmeister^talk 14:17, 24 November 2024 (UTC)

• Comment: Have we posted COP before? Scuba 15:17, 24 November 2024 (UTC)

  @Scu ba Yes, indeed we have done it in several occasions, including last year, in 2021 and in 2015. Oltrepier (talk) 15:28, 24 November 2024 (UTC)

  Okay, then I'll vote Support, article is of high enough quality, and there is precedent. Scuba 15:48, 24 November 2024 (UTC)

• Support: as much as the final result of this conference feels extremely disappointing, the COPs are still one of the most important tools national delegations and associations have to negotiate on plans aimed to help our planet and its ecosystems survive. So, yeah, I think they should be addressed even when progress is not so significant. By the way, I'll try to go through the article myself to correct the grammar, as suggested by Masem. Oltrepier (talk) 15:38, 24 November 2024 (UTC)

  Right, I've tried to get the article in better shape, and I think I should have solved all of the most glaring issues with tenses and grammar, although I must confess there are a lot of useful bits of information that are still missing from the page... Oltrepier (talk) 21:40, 24 November 2024 (UTC)

• Support per Oltrepier. Flip^andFlopped ツ 16:56, 24 November 2024 (UTC)
• Oppose on notability these summits happen regularly and there's always lots of talk but nothing of note ever happens other than vague meaningless declarations as a result, leaving everyone, particularly those still believing something might change, predictably dissapointed. Having a handful of people fly in on private planes from around the world to an oil-rich dictatorship to pretend to do something about climate change is textbook greenwashing. Abcmaxx (talk) 21:33, 24 November 2024 (UTC)
• Oppose: For the reasons @Abcmaxx succinctly outlines. Also, because we have posted something in the past doesn't mean we should now. Dreameditsbrooklyn (talk) 22:03, 24 November 2024 (UTC)
• Support These conferences happen annually, but they are the largest regular international conferences on Climate Change. This year's summit notably saw an agreement on a specific numerical goal for climate finance. Jackattack1597 (talk) 04:59, 25 November 2024 (UTC)

  But none of these outcomes are tangible results of any consequence; the frequency of these conferences makes it all more apparent Abcmaxx (talk) 11:07, 25 November 2024 (UTC)

  When we have posted the COP conclusion before at ITN, it is usually tied to a commitment to do some actual actions to reduce climate change (even if they can't be held accountable, etc.) Simply saying they will plan to help poorer countries with financing towards climate change is sorta a nothing-burger in the larger picture regarding CC, given that those pooer countries are typically the least likely contributors towards it. — Masem (t) 13:24, 25 November 2024 (UTC)

• Comment: Some may call it an idle man's show and I personally don't see any notable step they took, but the event might still notable enough. Wikipedia has a good article on it, and it is on the news, to present it is what ITN does. ExclusiveEditor _{Notify Me!} 14:57, 25 November 2024 (UTC)

  I guess 300 BILLION dollars annually for loans and grants to tiny countries isn't a notable step. Scuba 18:44, 25 November 2024 (UTC)

  Given that nations that set to receive that money say that's not nearly enough, yes [15] — Masem (t) 20:54, 25 November 2024 (UTC)

  Of the proposed $1.3 trillion from this year onwards, 300 billion does fall short. ExclusiveEditor _{Notify Me!} 06:20, 26 November 2024 (UTC)

• Oppose on significance. This year's summit doesn't seem to have as large of an effect as others and the extent of it being in the news seems to be "it happened" ✈ mike_gigs ^talk_contribs 16:27, 25 November 2024 (UTC)
• Weak oppose per Abcmaxx. The Kip ^(contribs) 06:10, 26 November 2024 (UTC)

(Posted) RD: Chia-ying Yeh

Article: Chia-ying Yeh (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): China Daily
Credits:

• Nominated by Greencarp (talk · give credit)
• Updated by Zanhe (talk · give credit)

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Death confirmed today. Chinese-born Canadian poet and sinologist Greencarp (talk) 13:15, 24 November 2024 (UTC)

Support article properly cited. Scuba 15:16, 24 November 2024 (UTC)

• Support - looks good enough ✈ mike_gigs ^talk_contribs 15:38, 25 November 2024 (UTC)
• Support and marking ready. Flip^andFlopped ツ 16:36, 25 November 2024 (UTC)
• Posted to RD. Spencer^T•C 17:19, 25 November 2024 (UTC)

RD: Zvi Kogan

Article: Death of Zvi Kogan (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Washington Post
Credits:

• Nominated by Thriley (talk · give credit)

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Death confirmed today. Article was just created. Needs expansion. Thriley (talk) 07:46, 24 November 2024 (UTC)

Support article looks good. Scuba 15:15, 24 November 2024 (UTC)

Support Article is in good shape with lots of sources. Z'L Pyramids09 (talk) 10:46, 25 November 2024 (UTC)

• Support - looks ready for posting ✈ mike_gigs ^talk_contribs 15:37, 25 November 2024 (UTC)

Support and marking ready. Flip^andFlopped ツ 16:37, 25 November 2024 (UTC)

• Comment: Not sure if this is technically eligible for RD if the article is about his death? Not sure how this has been handled in the past. WP:ITNRDBLURB suggests that something like this should be blurbed when the death is the main topic. Spencer^T•C 17:16, 25 November 2024 (UTC)

  There was Wikipedia:In the news/Candidates/June 2020 § (Closed) RD: David McAtee, which said the page needed to be a biography. —Bagumba (talk) 10:23, 27 November 2024 (UTC)

Support it would be a gimme if the title were "assassination of," as it should be. Scharb (talk) 17:57, 25 November 2024 (UTC)

• Oppose WP:ITNRD requires that the subject has a biographical Wikipedia article. But this is more narrowly a death page, whose title is being further proposed to be specifically a muder page. It can alternatively be proposed as a blurb for the murder, if notable, but that has a higher significance bar than a basic RD.—Bagumba (talk) 10:15, 27 November 2024 (UTC)

(Posted) RD: Fred R. Harris

Article: Fred R. Harris (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): NYT
Credits:

• Nominated by Staraction (talk · give credit)
• Updated by Sunshineisles2 (talk · give credit), MallonAllah12 (talk · give credit) and Flipandflopped (talk · give credit)

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: American politican from Oklahoma. Staraction (talk | contribs) 04:23, 24 November 2024 (UTC)

Support no problems with the article. Scuba 15:15, 24 November 2024 (UTC)

Support addressed a couple CN tags and reviewed the article; looks good. Tagging ready now. Flip^andFlopped ツ 16:43, 25 November 2024 (UTC)

• Posted to RD. Spencer^T•C 17:13, 25 November 2024 (UTC)

(Posted) 2024 World Rally Championship

Article: 2024 World Rally Championship (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ In motorsport, Thierry Neuville (pictured) and Martijn Wydaeghe win the World Rally Championship. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ In motorsport, Thierry Neuville (pictured) and Martijn Wydaeghe win the World Rally Championship, while Toyota win the manufacturer's title.
News source(s): France 24
Credits:

• Nominated by Moraljaya67 (talk · give credit)
• Created by Unnamelessness (talk · give credit)
• Updated by Unnamelessness (talk · give credit)

Article updated
The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.

Nominator's comments: Looks like the article is good for posting. Moraljaya67 (talk) 04:19, 24 November 2024 (UTC)

• Comment tweaked the blurb Added ALT blurb. Unnamelessness (talk) 07:30, 24 November 2024 (UTC)
• Support The article is good to go. Probrably could issue a blurb together with the F1, something like: In motorsport, Max Verstappen and the crew of Thierry Neuville and Martijn Wydaeghe respectively win the the Formula One World Championship and the World Rally Championship. Unnamelessness (talk) 07:52, 24 November 2024 (UTC)

  These are completely unrelated sports, so shouldn't be combined. Yes they both use cars, but we wouldn't combine rugby with football just because they both use balls, or tennis with squash because they both use racquets. Modest Genius ^talk 15:57, 24 November 2024 (UTC)

  The difference is that both championships are organized by the same organization (Fédération Internationale de l'Automobile), and both championships are listed under the same ITNR category (Motorsport). Unnamelessness (talk) 16:32, 24 November 2024 (UTC)

• Support article looks good. Scuba 15:14, 24 November 2024 (UTC)
• Comment many parts of the text are ungrammatical and unidiomatic, as if they've been through automated translation. I've tried to tidy up the season summary, but parts are still contradictory or difficult to follow. This could do with some attention by someone who followed the season - I don't have time to dig into all the references. Modest Genius ^talk 15:56, 24 November 2024 (UTC)

• Support Also Support unnamelessness’ suggestion 27.96.223.193 (talk) 04:40, 25 November 2024 (UTC)
• Oppose an independent blurb, as I am in favour of a conjoined blurb with the F1 ITNR blurb. Two motorsport blurbs clogs up the main page, and they can logically be grouped together. Flip^andFlopped ツ 07:06, 25 November 2024 (UTC)

• They are 2 completely different events and so should not be merged into one blurb. Joseph2302 (talk) 11:26, 25 November 2024 (UTC)

  they’re both motorsport. 27.96.223.193 (talk) 23:14, 25 November 2024 (UTC)

• Support only as a separate blurb. This is WP:ITNR and meets article quality standards and so should be posted as a separate blurb- this is no different to having multiple election articles listed at the same time on ITN. This discussion isn't an appropriate place to try and re-write how ITN and ITNR nominations work, these 2 events are not related just because they both use cars. Joseph2302 (talk) 11:29, 25 November 2024 (UTC)

Voicing quality concerns about how to better optimize the phrasing of blurb(s) is inappropriate to bring up in the discussion and voting section of those very same blurbs? ITNR means the event itself is notable enough to make it on the main page. How the article is blurbed and presented remains subject to community consensus, which entails room for disagreement without accusations of inappropriate behaviour. Flip^andFlopped ツ 16:54, 25 November 2024 (UTC)

A combined mix of 2 not the same events is not the same as posting them separately which is what the ITNR nomination is for. Joseph2302 (talk) 18:23, 25 November 2024 (UTC)

Well, I will respectfully agree to disagree. Flip^andFlopped ツ 00:32, 26 November 2024 (UTC)

• Support nomination but strong oppose combined blurb we would not combine futsal with association football even though both are similar and organised by the same governing body; that would be the sporting equivalent of combining Uruguayan and Somaliland election blurbs because they are both elections. WRC and F1 are completely different sports, we wouldn't combine Moto GP with F1, this is a much bigger distinction; bigger than you would have between F1 and Formula-E for example, despite those two also being very different cars (would not support combining them either). Abcmaxx (talk) 07:03, 27 November 2024 (UTC)
• Support. The F1 blurb has long been posted while this one lingers because some editors want a combined blurb. That seems rather unfair... Fram (talk) 09:09, 27 November 2024 (UTC)

For the record, if we are not combining the blurbs, then I am not opposed to posting the article. Its quality is more than sufficient to meet ITNCrit. Flip^andFlopped ツ 16:23, 27 November 2024 (UTC)

@Admins willing to post ITN: ready to go? The only hangup was whether or not to post a combined blurb. Natg 19 (talk) 17:53, 27 November 2024 (UTC)

• Posted Spencer^T•C 07:07, 28 November 2024 (UTC)

(Closed) Sara Duterte

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

---

Article: Sara Duterte (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ The Vice President of the Philippines Sara Duterte (pictured) causes outrage after claiming in a briefing that she had spoken to kill President Ferdinand Marcos Jr., First lady Liza Araneta Marcos and House Speaker Martin Romualdez if she were to killed. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ Vice President of the Philippines Sara Duterte (pictured) under fire after allegedly revealing in a briefing if she had arranged and assassination of President of the Philippines Ferdinand Marcos Jr., First lady Liza Araneta Marcos and House Speaker of the Philippines Martin Romualdez if she were to die.
Alternative blurb II: ​ The Vice President of the Philippines Sara Duterte (pictured) faces criticism after reportedly admitting in a briefing that she ordered the assassination of President of the Philippines Ferdinand Marcos Jr., First lady Liza Araneta Marcos and House Speaker of the Philippines Martin Romualdez if she were killed.
News source(s): NBC, CNN and Reuters
Credits:

• Nominated by Royiswariii (talk · give credit)

Nominator's comments: Just In that President Marcos Jr gave a official statement on Sara Duterte said (Source: GMA News) Royiswariii Talk! 04:52, 25 November 2024 (UTC)

Strong oppose until this evolves into widespread protests, or a political crisis, or something beyond non-specific claims of "outrage". At least something with article to point towards, feigning the possibility of Duterte's death following these comments. Departure– (talk) 05:03, 25 November 2024 (UTC)

Added bold formatting to bring all blurbs to ITN style. Departure– (talk) 05:05, 25 November 2024 (UTC)

check the alt blurb Royiswariii Talk! 05:29, 25 November 2024 (UTC)

Comment: Please note that it started on conflict of Marcos-Duterte on Investigation of War on Drugs in the Philippines of Former President Rodrigo Duterte. And in Mary Grace Piattos issue that possibly go on impeachment too (While I'm replying this, it's in the investigation of Quad committee of the Philippines). I can't remember other issues of Duterte-Marcos it's so many issues lol. Royiswariii Talk! 05:36, 25 November 2024 (UTC)

• Oppose "Politician criticized for incendiary comments about hypothetical situation" is not ITN material. The Kip ^(contribs) 06:33, 25 November 2024 (UTC)
• Oppose: This is WP:NOTNEWS and also, I think, that every criticisms/controversies of a certain politician is habitual news.Moraljaya67 (talk)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

November 23

Portal:Current events/2024 November 23

November 23, 2024 (2024-11-23) (Saturday) Armed conflicts and attacks Israel–Hezbollah conflict 2024 Israeli invasion of Lebanon 2024 Basta airstrikes At least 20 people are killed and 66 others are injured in an Israeli airstrike in Basta, Beirut, Lebanon. (L'Orient Today) (Reuters) 2024 Tyre airstrikes Two people are killed and three others are injured in an Israeli drone strike on Tyre, Lebanon. The victims are Palestinian refugees from the nearby Rashidieh camp. (AP) Israeli airstrikes across Lebanon kill 18 people, including four children, in Shmustar, Roumieh, and Bodai. (AP) Insurgency in Khyber Pakhtunkhwa Aftermath of the 2024 Kurram attack Sectarian clashes between Sunni and Shia fighters in Kurram District, Khyber Pakhtunkhwa, Pakistan, kill 33 people and injure 25 others. (AP) Islamic State–Taliban conflict The Islamic State Khorasan claims responsibility for a mass shooting that killed ten Sufi worshippers at a shrine in Nahrin District, Baghlan, Afghanistan, two days ago. (Arab News) (Barron's) Sudanese civil war The Sudanese Armed Forces recapture Sinja, the capital of Sennar State, Sudan, from the Rapid Support Forces. (The New Arab) Disasters and accidents Twenty-four people are killed and 46 others are rescued after two boats carrying 70 passengers capsize when the boats' engines failed in the Indian Ocean off the north coast of Madagascar. (BBC News) International relations 2024 United Nations Climate Change Conference World leaders at the COP29 climate summit in Baku, Azerbaijan, sign a deal to send at least $300 billion annually to developing nations in the fight against climate change. (CBS News) Russia–United States relations The United States Intelligence Community declassifies a document which accuses Russia of assassinating political opponents to President Vladimir Putin abroad. (Kyiv Independent) (Bloomberg) Politics and elections Constitutional crisis in Somalia 2024 Jubaland presidential election At least one security officer is killed and two others are injured in a gunfight between Jubaland police and security guards in Kismayo, Somalia, after rival candidates announced a parallel election amid a disagreement on the electoral procedure for the presidential election on Monday. (Hiiraan Online) (NTV Kenya) (NATION) 2024 anti-tourism protests in Spain Tens of thousands of people protest against rising rent costs and lack of social housing for residents in Barcelona, Spain. The protests emerge after a recent Bank of Spain report showed the average Spaniard spends about 40% of their income on rent. (AP) Philippine Vice President Sara Duterte claims to have spoken with a contract killer to target President Bongbong Marcos, his wife Liza and House Speaker Martin Romualdez in the event of her assassination, which the administration deemed an "active threat" against the government. (ABS-CBN) Sports 2024 U Sports football season 59th Vanier Cup In Canadian football, the Laval Rouge et Or defeats the Wilfrid Laurier Golden Hawks 22–17 in the 59th Vanier Cup, claiming their 12th U Sports football title. (TSN) 2024 Formula One World Championship In auto racing, Max Verstappen of Red Bull wins his fourth consecutive World Drivers' Championship at the Las Vegas Grand Prix. (GMA News) 2024 National Women's Soccer League season In association football, the Orlando Pride wins its first National Women's Soccer League title after defeating the Washington Spirit 1–0 in the championship. (The Japan Times)

---

(Posted) 2024 Formula One World Championship

Article: 2024 Formula One World Championship (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ In motorsport, Max Verstappen (pictured) wins the Formula One World Championship. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ In motorsport, Max Verstappen (pictured) wins the Formula One World Championship, while Thierry Neuville and Martijn Wydaeghe win the World Rally Championship.
News source(s): ESPN
Credits:

• Nominated by Unnamelessness (talk · give credit)

Article needs updating
The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.

Nominator's comments: May produce a combination blurb with the WRC. Unnamelessness (talk) 07:34, 24 November 2024 (UTC)

Support with conjoined F1-WRC blurb. Article should be OK too even without the prose on the latest race. Angusgtw (talk) 08:26, 24 November 2024 (UTC)

Queston What's a WRC? HiLo48 (talk) 08:55, 24 November 2024 (UTC)

@HiLo48: World Rally Championship. Personally I would not be in favour of a merge because they're 2 different types of motor racing. The C of E God Save the King! (talk) 09:05, 24 November 2024 (UTC)

I fully agree. HiLo48 (talk) 09:10, 24 November 2024 (UTC)

Support article looks good. Scuba 15:14, 24 November 2024 (UTC)

Support combined blurb per Angusgtw. We should combine the entries for the F1 and world rally championship. Flip^andFlopped ツ 07:12, 25 November 2024 (UTC)

• Support - article looks ready ✈ mike_gigs ^talk_contribs 15:39, 25 November 2024 (UTC)
• Strong oppose combined blurb That would be like combining the Super Bowl and Rugby World Cup finals because they both use an oval ball. Abcmaxx (talk) 16:05, 25 November 2024 (UTC)

Comment Must we run a photo of a Dutch and Belgian athlete in front of the British flag? How about we use something like instead? Bremps... 20:19, 25 November 2024 (UTC)

• Support ArionStar (talk) 01:24, 26 November 2024 (UTC)

• Support per nom IDB.S (talk) 04:12, 26 November 2024 (UTC)

• Support on quality, weak oppose combined blurb. The Kip ^(contribs) 06:11, 26 November 2024 (UTC)
• Posted Formula One. Does not appear to be consensus to post a combined blurb. Spencer^T•C 03:54, 27 November 2024 (UTC)

RD: Chuck Woolery

Article: Chuck Woolery (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/tv/tv-news/chuck-woolery-dead-wheel-fortune-love-connection-1236070165/
Credits:

• Nominated by RachelTensions (talk · give credit)

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Filmography needs sourcing. RachelTensions (talk) 06:05, 24 November 2024 (UTC)

Soft support filmography needs sourcing, but other than that it only has two cn tags. Scuba 15:12, 24 November 2024 (UTC)

November 22

Portal:Current events/2024 November 22

November 22, 2024 (2024-11-22) (Friday) Armed conflicts and attacks Israel–Hezbollah conflict 2024 Beqaa Valley airstrikes An Israeli airstrike targeting the Dar El Amal Hospital in Duris in the Bekaa Valley, Lebanon, kills the hospital director and six other health workers. (Anadolu Agency) (Al Jazeera) 2024 Israeli invasion of Lebanon At least five medics are killed when Israeli airstrikes hit a multistorey building in Chyah, Beirut, Lebanon. (Al Jazeera) Russian invasion of Ukraine 2024 Kursk offensive Russian human rights commissioner Tatyana Moskalkova states that 46 of one thousand Russian civilians who claimed to have been forcibly relocated by Ukraine into its territory have been returned, following extensive negotiations involving the Red Cross. (Reuters) Two people are killed and 12 others are injured in a Russian drone attack on civilian infrastructure in Sumy, Ukraine. (Reuters) Insurgency in Khyber Pakhtunkhwa, Sectarian violence in Pakistan 2024 Kurram attack Large crowds of protesters gather in Parachinar, Pakistan, to protest the massacre of 50 Shiite Pakistanis as well as the ongoing sectarian violence in the region. (Reuters) (MENAFN) New People's Army rebellion Eight New People's Army guerrillas are killed after two separate encounters since yesterday by the Philippine Army in Candoni, Negros Occidental. (The Philippine Star) Mali War Jama'at Nasr al-Islam wal-Muslimin claims responsibility for an attack in Mali the previous day which killed seven Wagner Group mercenaries. (Reuters) Mexican drug war The bodies of six people were found at the height of the Alazán Plan ejido with signs of torture on the highway that connects the municipalities of San Fernando with Reynosa. (Excelsior) Business and economy German economic crisis German automotive supplier Bosch announces plans to lay off 5,550 employees, including 3,500 by 2027, as part of measures to reduce costs. (DW) (Reuters) Disasters and accidents 2024 Laos methanol poisoning A second Australian tourist dies of alcohol poisoning in Vang Vieng, Laos, bringing the death toll from the incident to six. Eight others remain hospitalized. (ABC News Australia) Health and environment An infant dies and at least ten other people fall ill in a listeria outbreak related to ready-to-eat meat and poultry products in California, United States. (AP) Law and crime Conscription of yeshiva students The Israel Defense Forces issue more than 1,000 arrest warrants to ultra-Orthodox Jews in Israel for evading draft orders. (CNN) (The Times of Israel) Norway–United States relations A Norwegian man working as a guard at the United States Embassy in Oslo is arrested, on suspicion of spying for Russia and Iran. (CNN) Energy company Phillips 66 is indicted in a United States federal court on six charges of violating the Clean Water Act in Los Angeles County, California. (CBS News) Politics and elections 2024 Senegalese parliamentary election The National Autonomous Electoral Commission of Senegal certifies the results of the parliamentary election, with the ruling PASTEF party winning 130 out of 165 seats. (RFI) (Al Jazeera) Nicaraguan lawmakers vote unanimously to approve a constitutional amendment that strengthens the political power of President Daniel Ortega and makes his wife and Vice President Rosario Murillo "co-president". (Confidencial) (Al Jazeera) Science and technology Censorship in Belarus In a speech at Minsk State Linguistic University, Belarusian President Alexander Lukashenko threatens to shut down the Internet in his country if there are mass protests before the upcoming presidential election after the previous election saw mass protests. (Rferl) Instagram CEO Adam Mosseri announces that Meta Platforms social network Threads will test AI-powered summaries for trending topics. (TechCrunch)

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(Closed) Russia launches ICBM/IRBM into Ukraine

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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Article: Oreshnik (missile) (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Russia launches a hypersonic projectile claimed to be an Oreshnik intermediate-range ballistic missile from Astrakhan Oblast in a conventional strike on Dnipro, Ukraine. (Post)
News source(s): Reuters
Credits:

• Nominated by 219.74.216.56 (talk · give credit)

Nominator's comments: Major escalation of Russian invasion of Ukraine. 219.74.216.56 (talk • contribs)

• What exactly was launched is unclear, as we can't take Russia's own claims to their word, and more reliable sources says it wasn't ICBMs [16]. This is an escalation, but at this point, reasonably covered by the ongoing. --Masem (t) 17:03, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

Strong oppose - this was NOT a nuclear warhead, and we have an article for the projectile - Oreshnik (missile). Let's not puff it up any more than it was. We didn't post Ukraine using West-supplied long-range missiles and Putin's nuclear threats that he always makes, so let's not post the use of Russia's shiny new toy. Also, you may want to use a template for future ITN submissions. Departure– (talk) 17:26, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

Moved to a template. Departure– (talk) 17:32, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

• Oppose per Masem and Departure. Covered by ongoing. The Kip ^(contribs) 18:55, 22 November 2024 (UTC)
• Oppose. Appears not to be an ICBM, which might be notable. Otherwise, this appears to be suitably covered by ongoing. ---- Patar knight - ^chat/_{contributions} 19:04, 22 November 2024 (UTC)
• Support in principle, just change blurb according to RS, major escalation. BilboBeggins (talk) 20:42, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

  Could you point me towards the RS that states this was an ICBM, or anything other than the blurb states, then? Also, this wasn't even the only hypersonic ballistic missile launch that day. Multiple Kh-47M2 Kinzhal strikes were reported in the same Reuters article. Departure– (talk) 20:47, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

  Ok, source state that it was new intermediate-range ballistic missile.

  But also that it was a nuclear-capable weapon [17].

  It was a major escalation and major event in war, Putin addressed the nation, which he only did after the start of the war, mobilisation, and Prigozhin mutiny. BilboBeggins (talk) 21:41, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

  The Kinzhal also has nuclear capabilities. Prigozhin's mutiny was quite a while ago so it tracks he'd make another address to remind the West there's a war going on, even when it's just a new weapon. I'd prefer not to take Putin on his word that this was something special. Departure– (talk) 21:49, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

• Oppose per Departure- TheHiddenCity| (talk) — Preceding undated comment added 21:54, 22 November 2024 (UTC)
• Oppose good faith nom. Just another day in a country that's been ruthlessly invaded and subjected to near daily indiscriminate bombing attacks. -Ad Orientem (talk) 22:01, 22 November 2024 (UTC)
• Oppose not actually an intercontinental ballistic missile nor nuclear. If one of those is launched, would be more likely to fulfill notability requirement. Flip^andFlopped ツ 22:13, 22 November 2024 (UTC)
• Oppose Covered by Ongoing, Editor 5426387 (talk) 22:46, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

2024 Kurram massacre

Article: 2024 Kurram massacre (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Gunmen attacked a large passenger convoy of vehicles in Kurram district of Khyber Pakhtunkhwa province of Pakistan, resulting in the death of 50 people and 30 injuries. (Post)
News source(s): BBC, Reuters, NY Times, VOA, APP, The Guardian, DW, AP
Credits:

• Nominated by Ainty Painty (talk · give credit)
• Created by Noble Attempt (talk · give credit)

 Ainty Painty (talk) 03:48, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

• Support: Seems noteworthy. Deserves attention. Hacked (Talk|Contribs) 04:05, 22 November 2024 (UTC)
• Support: Another major attack that should be on the main page. Harizotoh9 (talk) 05:35, 22 November 2024 (UTC)
• Support: A very significant and major insurgent attack, should be on the main Waleed (talk) 05:39, 22 November 2024 (UTC)
• Oppose on quality Seems too short, and what reactions there are are the usual "fluff" in the sense that there's condolances and not actual any actions. Likely needs a background section too. --Masem (t) 05:58, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

Local leaders complaining of a lack of security, officials saying the death toll will rise, and the PM and President both commenting on the incident are not "fluff". The entire section is only 5 sentences long. Harizotoh9 (talk) 06:09, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

I would expect a good reaction section not to be flooded with non-action statements of sympathy and anger, but actual steps towards action to investigate and make sure such events happen again, what they are doing for familes of the victims, etc. (eg: its far too easy for quote anyone with "thoughts and prayers" after a tragic event, that doesn't make for good encyclopedic content) — Masem (t) 13:19, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

• Oppose: Not enough sources, and it reads as a stub. Aneirinn (talk) 06:36, 22 November 2024 (UTC)
• Oppose on quality as the article is barebones. Support on notability, however. The Kip ^(contribs) 07:30, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

Sectarian nature makes it more relevant to mention in the headline.Sportsnut24 (talk) 10:15, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

• Oppose on quality, support on notability the ongoing land dispute & sectarian conflict which is at the source of the attack needs to be fleshed out in the background section. As of now, all the article says is "Sunni and Shia Muslims are in conflict in the region over a dispute over land". That is nowhere near a sufficient explanation. We can't put an incomplete article on the main page. Flip^andFlopped ツ 22:19, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

support I don't see the Quality problems that other voter are talking about, it looks fine to me. Scuba 15:11, 24 November 2024 (UTC)

• Oppose on quality Seems short, I'd like to have it with more detail. Support on notability A significant Shia-Sunni relations attack TheHiddenCity (talk) 22:27, 22 November (UTC)
• Support: - Notable, ITN-worthy and likely to be expanded further. I don’t think the brevity is sufficient reason not to post. Jusdafax (talk) 20:49, 26 November 2024 (UTC)

November 21

Portal:Current events/2024 November 21

November 21, 2024 (2024-11-21) (Thursday) Armed conflicts and attacks Russian invasion of Ukraine Dnipro strikes, Russian strikes against Ukrainian infrastructure Russia strikes Dnipro, Ukraine, with a projectile stated by Russian President Vladimir Putin to be a new Oreshnik intermediate-range ballistic missile (IRBM) model. This confirms earlier reports from the United States and other western officials, who said that Russia had used an IRBM after initial reports misidentified the missile as a RS-26 Rubezh intercontinental ballistic missile. (Reuters) (CBS News) (BBC News) Hungary and the Russian invasion of Ukraine Hungary announces the deployment of a missile defense system on its border with Ukraine, saying that the threat of escalation with Russia is now "greater than ever". (Reuters) United Kingdom and the Russian invasion of Ukraine Russian ambassador to the United Kingdom Andrey Kelin says that the UK is now "directly involved" in the war in Ukraine following yesterday's use of British Storm Shadow cruise missiles by Ukraine to strike targets inside Russia. (Sky News) Insurgency in Khyber Pakhtunkhwa, Sectarian violence in Pakistan 2024 Kurram attack At least 42 people are killed and many others are wounded as gunmen open fire against two convoys carrying Shia people in Kurram District, Khyber Pakhtunkhwa, Pakistan. (Al Jazeera) Israel–Hezbollah conflict Hezbollah fires a rocket barrage at northern Israel, killing one person in the city of Nahariya. (Reuters) Colombian conflict Five soldiers are killed and four other people are injured after a bombing attack in the municipality of Anorí, Antioquia Department, Colombia. The National Liberation Army is blamed. (El País) Disasters and accidents 2024 Laos methanol poisoning An Australian and a British tourist die after consuming poisoned alcohol in Vang Vieng, Laos, bringing the death toll from the incident to five. Nine others are hospitalized. (BBC News) (AP) Health and environment The Ministry of Health of New Zealand declares a national epidemic of whooping cough after a recent spike of 263 cases in the past four weeks. (RNZ) International relations International sanctions during the Russian invasion of Ukraine, Russia–United States relations U.S. Treasury Secretary Janet Yellen announces that the Treasury Department has imposed sanctions against Russia's third-largest bank Gazprombank and its subsidiaries. (The Hill) Law and crime 2022 Brazilian coup plot Brazilian Federal Police indicts former President Jair Bolsonaro and 36 others for attempting a coup after he lost to Lula da Silva in the 2022 election. (AP) Novi Sad railway station canopy collapse Eleven people, including former construction minister Goran Vesić, are arrested as part of an investigation into the Novi Sad railway station accident that caused 15 deaths earlier this month. (DW) (AL24) War crimes in the Israel–Hamas war, International Criminal Court investigation in Palestine International Criminal Court arrest warrants for Israeli figures The International Criminal Court issues arrest warrants for Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, former Israeli minister of defense Yoav Gallant, and the leader of Hamas' military wing Mohammed Deif, who is presumed to be dead. (Jerusalem Post) Science and technology Internet censorship in Pakistan It is reported that Pakistan internet authorities have banned the use of Bluesky in the country amidst a surge in popularity in the app. The ban is confirmed by internet watchdog NetBlocks in a post on X (formerly known as Twitter). (TechRadar) The European Southern Observatory announces that its astronomers in Chile capture the first close-up image of a star outside the Milky Way. (The New York Times)

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(Posted) RD: Odile Bailleux

Article: Odile Bailleux (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Le Monde
Credits:

• Updated and nominated by Gerda Arendt (talk · give credit)
• Created by LouisAlain (talk · give credit)
• Updated by Grimes2 (talk · give credit)

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

French organist and harpschordist, much admired. This source is from 21 November. One more day to expand. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 23:43, 26 November 2024 (UTC)

A review and a recording added, please check. Gerda Arendt (talk) 14:53, 27 November 2024 (UTC)

• Support decent enough article, ticks boxes for RD. @Admins willing to post ITN: Tight faded male arse. Decadence and anarchy. A certain style. Smile. 15:23, 27 November 2024 (UTC)
• Support Looks ready. Thriley (talk) 22:04, 27 November 2024 (UTC)

  I moved her to 21 November. Sorry, I was on vacation, so updating came late. Le Monde and Diapason, the most serious obits, both came 21 November. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 00:17, 28 November 2024 (UTC)

Support No issues based on a cursory look. Would be good to post before it becomes stale. 98.170.164.88 (talk) 01:02, 28 November 2024 (UTC)

• Support @Admins willing to post ITN: can we please post before it falls off? Abcmaxx (talk) 06:50, 28 November 2024 (UTC)
• Posted to RD. Removed line in lede about "historically informed performance" as this was not mentioned elsewhere in the article. Spencer^T•C 07:00, 28 November 2024 (UTC)

(Posted) RD: Alice Brock

Article: Alice Brock (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): NBC News
Credits:

• Nominated by 240F:7A:6253:1:81A9:9B3:1C4C:1AAD (talk · give credit)
• Updated by Mn monkey (talk · give credit) and JMyrleFuller (talk · give credit)

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

 240F:7A:6253:1:81A9:9B3:1C4C:1AAD (talk) 03:44, 25 November 2024 (UTC)

• Support. Looks good to me. 🛧Midori No Sora♪🛪 ( ☁＝☁＝✈) 06:19, 25 November 2024 (UTC)
• Support: - Informative, well-sourced article that is ready for the Front Page. Jusdafax (talk) 20:57, 26 November 2024 (UTC)
• Support Satis. Grimes2 (talk) 21:10, 26 November 2024 (UTC)
• Posted to RD. Spencer^T•C 03:51, 27 November 2024 (UTC)

(Closed) Gautam Adani indicted

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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Articles: Gautam Adani (talk · history · tag) and United States of America v. Gautam Adani et al. (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Indian billionaire Gautam Adani and his associates are indicted by federal prosecutors for bribing Indian Government officials and concealing the details from American investors. (Post)
News source(s): [18]
Credits:

• Nominated by Ratnahastin (talk · give credit)

Article updated

 - Ratnahastin (talk) 07:27, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

• Oppose at least on quality - the trial article, which should be linked, is a stub. Unsure on notability, as we don't often post trials of individuals aside from major world leaders. The Kip ^(contribs) 07:29, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

  United States of America v. Gautam Adani et al., linking the article. Gotitbro (talk) 09:12, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

• Oppose on quality and on notability yet another case of corruption of a local personality. _-_Alsor (talk) 07:56, 22 November 2024 (UTC)
• Oppose We seem to have a rash of indictments and warrants lately. Per WP:SUSPECT, "A living person accused of a crime is presumed innocent until convicted by a court of law. Accusations, investigations, arrests and charges do not amount to a conviction." Andrew🐉(talk) 09:17, 22 November 2024 (UTC)
• Strong oppose posting this as if he were found guilty violates WP:SUSPECT. Joseph2302 (talk) 09:53, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

Oppose. Who is this guy? BilboBeggins (talk) 10:41, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

• Oppose. There are lots of reasons why this isn't suitable for ITN. The case article - which should be the bold link - is a stub. This is a domestic case involving a private individual, very different from the ICC seeking a national leader. The case itself does not seem particularly significant, there are fraud and corruption trials all the time. The blurb is misleading, because it incorrectly implies Indian prosecutors, and isn't NPOV. Modest Genius ^talk 12:04, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

(Posted) New Lithuanian PM

Article: Gintautas Paluckas (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Gintautas Paluckas is elected by the Seimas as the new Prime Minister of Lithuania. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ Following parliamentary elections, Gintautas Paluckas is elected by the Seimas as the new Prime Minister of Lithuania.
News source(s): [19][20]
Credits:

• Nominated by 98.170.164.88 (talk · give credit)
• Updated by Augenis (talk · give credit) and Editorius124 (talk · give credit)

Article updated
The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.

Nominator's comments: ITN/R applies as the PM administers the executive branch (per here, and the posting of his predecessor), and since Paluckas was not previously mentioned in ITN. The results of the 2024 Lithuanian parliamentary election were posted from November 1st to 2nd, but that blurb mentioned Vilija Blinkevičiūtė as the leader of the winning party, and she unexpectedly chose not to become PM. 98.170.164.88 (talk) 01:49, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

• Comment: The blurb should get a link to 2024 Lithuanian parliamentary election, also that would satisfy ITN/R better. ExclusiveEditor _{Notify Me!} 04:43, 22 November 2024 (UTC)
• Support Target articles seem to be of adequate quality. Propose altblurb incorporating election article. The Kip ^(contribs) 07:27, 22 November 2024 (UTC)
• Support: Seems fair enough and ready. Elios Peredhel (talk) 08:18, 22 November 2024 (UTC)
• Note After clarifying the issue on the talk page, I just want to point out that he is not technically the PM at the moment. He will officially become PM once his cabinet is finalized, probably in December. I don't think it's a big deal as a lot of changes in political office don't take effect immediately, and this is the stage in the process at which his predecessor was posted to ITN anyway. If we do want to delay it until he is officially the PM, I'm fine with that. If not, perhaps changing the word "new" to "next" in the blurb would better suit his status, although even the Lithuanian public broadcaster doesn't do that or make much of a distinction. 98.170.164.88 (talk) 09:16, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

FYI: Trump was posted as soon as he was called the winner of the US elections even though he wont take office until January. Prodrummer619 (talk) 11:18, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

• Support. We should post announcement now. BilboBeggins (talk) 10:41, 22 November 2024 (UTC)
• Support alt blurb : Incorporates both election and his article as it seems PM is not directly elected by people in Lithuania, also he is still not the PM (blurb says he's just elected) and cabinet comes from elected officials. ExclusiveEditor _{Notify Me!} 13:19, 22 November 2024 (UTC)
• Support no problems quality wise, ITN/R. Scuba 16:19, 22 November 2024 (UTC)
• Support and preferred altblurb. @Admins willing to post ITN: can this be posted as we seem to have consensus? Abcmaxx (talk) 15:08, 23 November 2024 (UTC)
• Posted with altblurb. — Red-tailed hawk _(nest) 04:09, 24 November 2024 (UTC)
• Could we please replace the image of Yoav Gallant with File:Gintautas Paluckas VRK.jpg? Currently it looks like Gallant is the new Lithuanian PM... Toadspike [Talk] 07:46, 25 November 2024 (UTC)

  I agree. Got confused for a moment why Lithuanian PM has a photo with Israeli flag backdrop. OhanaUnited^{Talk page} 14:12, 25 November 2024 (UTC)

  +1 51.154.145.205 (talk) 14:51, 25 November 2024 (UTC)

Someone change photo. Apparently I can't do that. BilboBeggins (talk) 12:07, 26 November 2024 (UTC)

Picture was changed to Paluckas by Schwede66 on 15:46, 26 November 2024 (UTC). Natg 19 (talk) 17:33, 26 November 2024 (UTC)

RD: Jodi Rell

Article: Jodi Rell (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): AP News
Credits:

• Nominated by Staraction (talk · give credit)
• Updated by TDKR Chicago 101 (talk · give credit)

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Connecticut governor; death announced 21 November. Staraction (talk | contribs) 00:36, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

• Oppose: Heavily uncited BLP. ExclusiveEditor _{Notify Me!} 04:39, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

• Multiple {cn} tags persist. Please add more REFs. --PFHLai (talk) 22:34, 28 November 2024 (UTC)

(Closed) Bolsonaro indicted

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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Article: 2022 Brazilian coup plot (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Former President of Brazil Jair Bolsonaro and 36 others are indicted by Brazilian police for their roles in the attempt to overthrow the 2022 election, including the attempted assassination of current president Luiz Inácio Lula da Silva. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ Former President of Brazil Jair Bolsonaro and 36 others are formally accused by Brazilian police for their roles in the attempt to overthrow the 2022 election, including the attempted assassination of current president Luiz Inácio Lula da Silva.
News source(s): CNN [AP News]
Credits:

• Nominated by Masem (talk · give credit)
• Updated by TDKR Chicago 101 (talk · give credit)

Article needs updating

 Masem (t) 22:12, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

• Strong support The fact that Bolsonaro is linked with an attempt to assassinate Lula is notable enough. The indictment is very ITN worthy. The article looks good too aside from two cn tags in the Timeline section (not sure if that section itself needs and expansion). --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 22:16, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

  Note I don't see the indictments added yet. Masem (t) 22:19, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

  Added a paragraph about it and a sentence to the lead. TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 22:45, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

• The article does not seem to be updated with the information about the indictments. Natg 19 (talk) 22:18, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

  Added some updates. TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 22:45, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

Strong support on notability - Brazil's equivalent of Trump's indictment(s). No reason this should be treated any different... except maybe on quality, which I've no comment. Departure– (talk) 01:31, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

• Support A former world leader is being prosecuted from overthrowing democracy is definitely newsworthy. Rager7 (talk) 22:02, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

WP:SOAP thread — Knightoftheswords 13:44, 22 November 2024 (UTC)
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
Oppose seeing as how Lula got out of prison based on the political whims of a judge and then ran for president again this doesn't really mean anything. Scuba 01:51, 22 November 2024 (UTC) WP:SOAP. The Kip (contribs) 07:25, 22 November 2024 (UTC) Lula was sentenced by the same judge who would serve in the Cabinet of Jair Bolsonaro, if political bias has to be talked about at all. None of this is relevant to whether Bolsonaro's indictment is notable or not; it is and we posted the Lula developments back then as well. Personal judgments of political assesments by editors aside. Gotitbro (talk) 07:56, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

• Support Highly noteworthy development in the attempted overthrow of democracy. Will be interesting to see if the matter is actually prosecuted properly and justice served unlike what happened in the US with Trump free to run again despite his attempt to overthrow democracy. AusLondonder (talk) 04:11, 22 November 2024 (UTC)
• Support: Of immense notability, and article, especially this particular event, are well cited. ExclusiveEditor _{Notify Me!} 04:37, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

• Oppose for anything but actual 'conviction'. ExclusiveEditor _{Notify Me!} 11:21, 27 November 2024 (UTC)

• Support Former President indicted on serious charges is bigly news. Harizotoh9 (talk) 05:24, 22 November 2024 (UTC)
• Support: Internationally noteworthy and quality articles. Aneirinn (talk) 06:41, 22 November 2024 (UTC)
• Support per Departure. The Kip ^(contribs) 07:25, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

Support While this was only the first of Bolsonaro's coup attempts (followed by 2022–2023 Brazilian election protests, 2023 Brazilian Congress attack), he is more significantly involved here than the others and likely the only event he is to be charged for. Gotitbro (talk) 07:29, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

Support - Former major world leader has been indicted in criminal court, due one of the most significant events in recent Brazilian history. Very notable. PrecariousWorlds (talk) 09:23, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

Support, major political event. BilboBeggins (talk) 10:40, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

• Oppose. The blurb and the article falsely tell us that the police have indicted Bolsonaro. In fact, the decision to indict lies with prosecutors, who have not yet made that decision. As per the NYT article cited in the Wikipedia article: "Brazil’s federal police urged prosecutors to charge Mr. Bolsonaro and three dozen others (...) Federal prosecutors have still not decided whether to pursue charges in any of these cases". Sandstein 10:47, 22 November 2024 (UTC)
• Oppose per Sandstein's good point and WP:SUSPECT. Andrew🐉(talk) 11:39, 22 November 2024 (UTC)
• Support per Gotitbro and WP:SUSPECT. SerialNumber54129 12:11, 22 November 2024 (UTC)
• Oppose/Wait per Sandstein on account of the blurb not being factually accurate. These indictments are likely still forthcoming. I think blurb posting on this topic should wait until that time. DarkSide830 (talk) 16:21, 22 November 2024 (UTC)
• Support. We need to get the wording right per the above, but this is the official report of a long police investigation, which is a major story in and of itself. -- Patar knight - ^chat/_{contributions} 17:48, 22 November 2024 (UTC)
• Support altblurb Prosecutors have clarified that although they will indict, it will take time to proceed to that next stage for logistical reasons: see here. However, I think this is ITN now, and so posting now (when coverage is high) is appropriate. It would be different if the prosecutor hadn't yet decided on an indictment: he WILL certainly be indicted, just after the Holidays. As such, I have proposed an altblurb which uses modified language. Flip^andFlopped ツ 22:30, 22 November 2024 (UTC)
• Support unusual occurrence and we have previously posted similar events concerning heads of state (e.g. jailing of Frank Bainimarama). @Admins willing to post ITN: do we have consensus here? Abcmaxx (talk) 15:12, 23 November 2024 (UTC)
• Oppose as we post convictions, not indictments, per WP:BLPCRIME. Posting Trump’s indictment was a mistake, so it’s better to not make it once again.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 15:27, 23 November 2024 (UTC)

  I tend to agree in principle re: BLPCRIME, but I think for heads of state the indictment itself is notable (for Trump as well as the Netanyahu/Gallant arrest warrants currently posted to the Main Page). DecafPotato (talk) 22:51, 23 November 2024 (UTC)

• Oppose per Kiril Simeonovski The AP (talk) 16:28, 24 November 2024 (UTC)

• Support A major political/legal event with international coverage. ArionStar (talk) 23:34, 25 November 2024 (UTC)
• Strongest Possible Oppose We've been down this road with Donald Trump and that was an egregious error. The Federal charges in his case have now disappeared and as of this post the consensus seems to be to ignore it. This is why we post convictions, not accusations. -Ad Orientem (talk) 03:21, 26 November 2024 (UTC)

  We posted when Trump was impeached (knowing full well there would be no removal by the Senate), and as mentioned above, the grand jury findings still exist and new indictments could be raised in the future (just not likely in the next four years). We have also posted the arrest warrants from the ICC for Putin and for Israel/Hamas leaders. Clearly when former leaders of countries are at least charged, in a formal manner consistent with the nation's laws, for major crimes, that seems to be the point to post, even if no actual conviction comes down the road. Masem (t) 04:30, 26 November 2024 (UTC)

• BLP comment WP:BLPCRIME/WP:BLPSUSPECT have been mentioned. The policy reads

  For individuals who are not public figures—that is, individuals not covered by § Public figures—editors must seriously consider not including material —in any article—that suggests the person has committed or is accused of having committed a crime, unless a conviction has been secured for that crime.

  However, Bolsonara is a public figure. Consensus might determine this doesn't belong on ITN, but it's not dictated by this policy.—Bagumba (talk) 04:19, 26 November 2024 (UTC)

  @Bagumba: That's a very unfortunate section. All living persons with Wikipedia articles are public figures in some way. Otherwise, they would not be covered in reliable sources that justify the existence of their articles. Could you please explain what makes politicians more prominent public figures than artists, scientists or sportspeople?--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 12:59, 26 November 2024 (UTC)

  WP tends to use the legal definition of Public figure to determine who is public. It is certainly not the case that any notable person we consider to be a public figure, but generally use that for those that are nearly always going to be covered by media, like politicians, actors, athletes, and top-level businessmen. Masem (t) 13:04, 26 November 2024 (UTC)

  I'm unsure whether the legal definition is the same everywhere (for instance, public figure lists only the case in the United States, which may not be true for Brazil or anywhere else). Furthermore, WP:PUBLICFIGURE isn't lex specialis that can override WP:BLPCRIME, and the examples given under WP:PUBLICFIGURE don't even list a case involving indictments (WP:BLPCRIME should normally be more restrictive than WP:PUBLICFIGURE due to the presumption of innocence. Otherwise, we risk to make a false positive.).--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 13:25, 26 November 2024 (UTC)

  To be clear, BLPCRIME is more geared towards protecting the privacy of those that are clearly not public figures (those whom have never been written about until such an event) rather than the allowance that we should cover crimes related to public figures. No matter how you slice it, Bolosanaro is a public figure, and thus the protection that we look for under BLPCRIME simply is not applicable.

  Beyond the scope of BLPCRIME, all other aspects of BLP in general apply: we do have to write with presumption of innocence, we should be accurate to what actually happened here from a legal perspective and not jump to conclusions (that is: I know the original articles on this all said, directly, "indictment", but that was clearly not the best wording). But there's no reason we can expect any attempt to protect Bolosanaro's privacy here via BLPCRIME. Masem (t) 13:46, 26 November 2024 (UTC)

  That's a very unfortunate section: Take that up at that policy's talk page. —Bagumba (talk) 14:07, 26 November 2024 (UTC)

• "Indictment" comment I was evaluating whether to post this, but saw Sandstein's comment above: The blurb and the article falsely tell us that the police have indicted Bolsonaro. In fact, the decision to indict lies with prosecutors. Reuters says: Brazil's prosecutor general is expected to weigh those two cases along with the police report on the alleged coup plot before bringing any charges against Bolsonaro early next year.[21] So it seems there's a conflict on whether he's indicted yet or not. For balance, CNN a few days ago had "Brazil’s Bolsonaro and allies indicted in 2022 coup plot probe". The previous Trump post that's been mentioned was for an indictment, but this discussion is not necessarily binded by that (WP:ITNSIGNIF). If there hasn't been an indictment, 2022 Brazilian coup plot needs to be updated to say that he's been accused by the police (or similar), and not use idict. —Bagumba (talk) 04:35, 26 November 2024 (UTC)

  There is also Talk:2022 Brazilian coup plot § Indictment —Bagumba (talk) 05:24, 26 November 2024 (UTC)

  Bagumba, Sandstein This is caused by a translation issue and cultural barrier. The literal definition of "indict" is "to formally accuse of or charge with a serious crime". The police have formally accused Bolsonaro, under Brazil's criminal procedure for the referral of cases. The prosecutor then has a supplementary decision as to how or whether to lay charges in Court. In Portuguese, the same verb - "indiciar" - is used for both of these two "types" of accusations: see here. So, when English sources like CNN are translating from Portuguese coverage, they say he was "indicted": technically true, because of the literal definition of the word and how it is used in Brazil. However, it is misleading to the American reader, who usually interpret "indictment" purely legalistically - that is to say, charges have been laid in court by a prosecutor.

  Using the altblurb language of "formally accused by police" is more precise and avoids that misleading impact. IMHO there is a consensus that the story itself is notable enough, so I would recommend going with the alt as a compromise measure. Flip^andFlopped ツ 16:00, 26 November 2024 (UTC)

  @Flipandflopped: If the alt blurb is considered accurate, then the article needs to change its contentious use of indict to something about being formally accused by the police.—Bagumba (talk) 17:26, 26 November 2024 (UTC)

  Fair point. I have raised the issue on the talk page and will make modifications to the article ASAP after giving folks time to raise disagreements to my interpretation. Hopefully then you or another admin can consider whether or not to post on the merits re: the notability of the event itself. Flip^andFlopped ツ 17:48, 26 November 2024 (UTC)

  FWIW, the page quality issues seem resolved now re: mentions of indictment. —Bagumba (talk) 09:57, 28 November 2024 (UTC)

• @TDKR Chicago 101, Departure–, Rager7, AusLondonder, ExclusiveEditor, Harizotoh9, Aneirinn, The Kip, Gotitbro, PrecariousWorlds, and BilboBeggins:: You all !voted support when the early sources called this an indictment. However, the discussion has since identified sources that indicated that while the police "formally accused" Bolsonaro et. al., the federal prosecutor has yet to press charges i.e. indict. You're invited to either reaffirm or charge your position. Thanks.—Bagumba (talk) 07:48, 27 November 2024 (UTC)

  Translation error, I see, in that case I rescind my vote. It is already on tenous grounds that we post formal charges; police complaints should nowhere be near the Main Page. Gotitbro (talk) 07:53, 27 November 2024 (UTC)

  @Bagumba I concur with Gotitbro accusations are not newsworthy compared to an actual indictment. I retract my vote. Rager7 (talk) 08:21, 27 November 2024 (UTC)

@Bagumba: Thanks, in that case it's too early to post. If Bolsonaro is eventually charged/indicted I would support posting, but not before. AusLondonder (talk) 13:15, 27 November 2024 (UTC)

Oppose and support revoked per above. Departure– (talk) 14:14, 27 November 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

(Posted) ICC arrest warrants for Benjamin Netanyahu, Yoav Gallant, and Mohammed Deif

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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Article: International Criminal Court investigation in Palestine (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ The International Criminal Court issues arrest warrants for Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, former Defense Minister Yoav Gallant, and Hamas leader Mohammed Deif in its investigation of war crimes in Palestine. (Post)
News source(s): The Guardian, NYTimes
Credits:

• Nominated by Nableezy (talk · give credit)
• Updated by ARandomName123 (talk · give credit)

Article updated

Nominator's comments: We previously posted warrants being issued for Muammar Gaddafi and Omar Bashir and Vladimir Putin nableezy - 13:56, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

Support Since the arrest warrants of Putin and others' were posted, I think this should be posted too as it is about a incumbent Prime Minister. LiamKorda 14:12, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

Strong support on notability, arrest warrants against world leaders have been posted before. Weak oppose on quality, the article isn't updated to where I think it should be to be posted. Besides that, otherwise it's well sourced. Departure– (talk) 14:15, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

• Support This will severely limit the travel options for the wanted persons. Grimes2 (talk) 14:20, 21 November 2024 (UTC)
• Support We did post the warrant for Putin, this precedentially follows. Gotitbro (talk) 14:50, 21 November 2024 (UTC)
• Support front page news, so meets WP:ITNSIGNIF. Would be good to add more to the section of the article about the warrants, but there's about enough to just about WP:ITNQUALITY. Joseph2302 (talk) 14:54, 21 November 2024 (UTC)
• Weak support - Support on significance and precedent. I think the quality could be better but not quite to the point where it should stop this from being posted. ✈ mike_gigs ^talk_contribs 14:57, 21 November 2024 (UTC)
• Support Arrest warrants against world leaders are very rare i think Bakhos2010 (talk) 15:01, 21 November 2024 (UTC)
• Strong support as per Departure–. Suggest blurb is in present tense. Martinevans123 (talk) 15:02, 21 November 2024 (UTC)
• Support. Important development, rare event, and per ITN precedent. The article is detailed and well-referenced; I find its organisation quite confusing and the update isn't great, but it provides the facts of the case and is in good enough shape to post. Modest Genius ^talk 15:13, 21 November 2024 (UTC)
• Support on notability as there is precedent that an international arrest warrant for an incumbent leader is notable, and on quality per Modest Genius above.  Vanilla  Wizard 💙 15:44, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

Comment - an article has been made at International Criminal Court arrest warrants for Israeli figures. It's not protected yet, nor is it ITN quality, but it should be made the target. Departure– (talk) 15:48, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

Absolutely no need for a separate article for the issuing of arrest warrants. It would have been far better to have an expansion of the ICC case. — Masem (t) 19:31, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

Support per norm. Scuba 16:07, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

• Comment It would be good if we could get the Hīkoi mō te Tiriti posted now given clear consensus in favour. AusLondonder (talk) 16:12, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

  Wrong section? nableezy - 16:13, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

Oops yeah, was intending to comment below. For clarity, Support posting this, too. AusLondonder (talk) 16:22, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

• Strong support per nom. Article looks good. --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 16:25, 21 November 2024 (UTC)
• Support the general event being posted on notability. I would prefer the target being the International Criminal Court arrest warrants for Israeli figures article though, which I believe has been brought up to a reasonable level of quality by now. Liu1126 (talk) 17:38, 21 November 2024 (UTC)
• Posted. I used the main article, since it wasn't really discussed if the sub-article should be used instead, and there's an obvious titling/scope issue with it. I used an image of Netanyahu and an additional use of "Israeli" per the choices used for the Russian ones in 2023. [22] These can all be changed if necessary. -- Patar knight - ^chat/_{contributions} 18:10, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

  For what's worth, I believe that the article International Criminal Court arrest warrants for Israeli figures should be placed, while not replacing the International Criminal Court investigation in Palestine article — Mignof (talk | contribs) 20:11, 26 November 2024 (UTC)

• Comment. Mohammed Deif is dead. What would his arrest warrant even mean in this case? 104.171.53.110 (talk) 19:36, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

  Our article explains that it's because neither Hamas nor independent sources have confirmed his death, so the ICC cannot determine if he is dead and decided to issue in case he is alive. -- Patar knight - ^chat/_{contributions} 20:00, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

  (edit conflict) Israel claims to have killed him in July, Hamas claims he's still alive. The ICC has been unable to determine either way, so issued the warrant. Regardless of whether you think either claim is tenable, or if any of these people will be arrested, the blurb is factually correct in stating that the court has issued a warrant. Modest Genius ^talk 20:01, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

  @Patar knight: would you be amenable to adding the phrase "allegedly killed" or something similar next to Deif's name for clarity (so it'd read "allegedly killed Hamas leader Mohammed Deif")? Dan the Animator 07:48, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

  The claims of Deif's death are weaker than our article suggests. Further phrasing appears unwarranted. Gotitbro (talk) 09:19, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

  Gotitbro, makes sense but I think the claims could still add important context (e.g. the fact that there are legitimate questions regarding his death suggests he is missing/hiding and thus the warrant won't have any immediate effects on him, unlike Bibi & Gallant who have generally been going about their lives). I'm open to other phrasing but I still think it's an important thing to add for context/clarity. Usually also the blurb is supposed to based on the article and the article in this case talks more about the warrant's effects on Israeli officials so I think it's helpful to readers to reflect this dynamic/disequilibrium in impact in the blurb. Open to other ideas though and thanks for the reply, Dan the Animator 16:37, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

  I think this is too much detail to get into for a blurb. A warrant was issued and the relevant part of the article explains the ICC's reasoning for issuing the warrant for Deif. If you have reliable sources that discuss the practical effects of the warrants, I would suggest adding to the article. -- Patar knight - ^chat/_{contributions} 17:44, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

  Fair enough. I still think adding two words to some effect would be rather helpful but I don't feel too strongly about it so it's alright. Many thanks for the replies! :) Dan the Animator 04:39, 23 November 2024 (UTC)

• @Admins willing to post ITN: Out of curiosity more than anything, if a pic of Netanyahu was originally posted, why does ITN now show the other guy? SerialNumber54129 12:02, 26 November 2024 (UTC)

  I think like joint Nobel Prize announcements, the idea is that each day a different person will have their image. Now I think it's due time for Deif to get his picture, Gallant was on the front page all of yesterday QueensanditsCrazy (talk) 13:52, 26 November 2024 (UTC)

  Oh, I see he doesn't have an image in his page. Not many photos of him exist apparently, but the article has links that have some pictures. Are these pictures copyrighted or some other thing that means it can't be used in his infobox and thus on the main page? QueensanditsCrazy (talk) 13:53, 26 November 2024 (UTC)

  Typically the admins try to rotate the photos between different topics or people every several days, but that is up to admin discretion, as the ITN box is protected and editable only by administrators. Natg 19 (talk) 17:35, 26 November 2024 (UTC)

Comment - Bit late, but I think at this point International Criminal Court arrest warrants for Israeli figures should be posted, since it is the article that details the news story at hand. It would like linking to United States presidential election for the recent election. @Admins willing to post ITN: — Knightoftheswords 21:51, 26 November 2024 (UTC)

would make it a bit of a chain link to wikilink "issues arrest warrants". nableezy - 23:36, 26 November 2024 (UTC)

That article only mentions the Israelis, not the Hamas guy. Stephen 02:26, 27 November 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

(Closed) 2024 Laos methanol poisoning

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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Article: 2024 Laos methanol poisoning (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Four tourists are dead and ten others injured from a suspected methanol poisoning in Laos. (Post)
News source(s): The AgeGuardian
Credits:

• Nominated by GMH Melbourne (talk · give credit)

 GMH Melbourne (talk) 12:25, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

• Support Sources ok, size ok. Terrible event. Grimes2 (talk) 12:41, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

• Oppose Terrible event, yes, but there's not a high number of fatalities, and the fact that they are tourists does not make it more notorious or more special.

_-_Alsor (talk) 12:56, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

Note that unfortunately the death toll is likely to rise as there are a number of people on life support. GMH Melbourne (talk) 13:03, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

• Oppose Seems like mostly a small domestic crime issue (if it was an intended crime), and given the number of List of methanol poisoning incidents, such events are not uncommon around the world. --Masem (t) 13:07, 21 November 2024 (UTC)
• Oppose Clearly an isolated domestic crime/food safety incident with limited effect.廣九直通車 (talk) 13:44, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

  Note also, that there are victims in Australia, New Zealand, the US, Denmark, UK, and Laos, with the news being reported by organisations around the world. GMH Melbourne (talk) 13:48, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

Oppose Unfortunate event but death toll is low and seems to be more of a local news event. LiamKorda 14:13, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

Oppose on notability. This seems to be an incident of food poisoning the likes of which we've seen numerous times and are likely to see again. Not nearly as widespread or otherwise impactful as a contamination event should be to get posted; this seems to be restricted to a single hotel in Vang Vieng. Weak oppose on quality at the moment. Also, this nomination may be stale as the fatalities happened on 13 November, and this is likely to roll off the news cycle and ITN as a whole before notability gets demonstrated and quality improves. The oldest blurb is Justin Welby's resignation from 12 November. Departure– (talk) 14:21, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

• Oppose. Tragic event, but accidents that cause four fatalities are sadly quite common. Even methanol poisoning isn't that unusual, see list of methanol poisoning incidents - and those are just the incidents that received media coverage and editor attention. The nationality of the victims has attracted media attention, but shouldn't affect our judgement of significance. I see no reason to treat this any differently than a traffic collision that caused four deaths, which would never be an ITN blurb. Modest Genius ^talk 15:21, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

Oppose routine accident/crime. not ITN worthy despite the tragedy. Scuba 16:06, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

• Oppose The page List of methanol poisoning incidents shows that moonshine deaths are far from unusual in the developing world. There were 65 in one batch in India just this June [23]. News websites and TV have an odd habit of exaggerating the attention they give to events when their own citizens die in incidents abroad. For example, this Guardian piece "British woman among three dead as south of France hit by severe flooding"; as if British news would report on three people dying in a French flood in any other way. We shouldn't be copying that kind of journalism. It kind of reminds me of this [24]. Unknown Temptation (talk) 19:25, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

  Ironically that Guardian article is from Agence France-Presse. AusLondonder (talk) 19:30, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

November 20

Portal:Current events/2024 November 20

November 20, 2024 (2024-11-20) (Wednesday) Armed conflicts and attacks Israel–Hamas war Calls for a ceasefire during the Israel–Hamas war The United States vetoes a United Nations Security Council proposal for a ceasefire in Gaza, citing the proposal's not linking the ceasefire to the return of hostages taken during the conflict. (The New York Sun) (Reuters) United States support for Israel in the Israel–Hamas war The United States Senate rejects three resolutions by senator Bernie Sanders that would block the sale of weapons to Israel in their war in Gaza. (The Hill) Russian invasion of Ukraine United Kingdom and the Russian invasion of Ukraine British-produced Storm Shadow cruise missiles are launched into Russian territory by Ukraine for the first time, following approval by the Starmer cabinet. (The Guardian) The U.S., Italian, Greek, and Spanish governments temporarily close their embassies in Kyiv, Ukraine, following threats of a "significant air attack" from Russia. (The Washington Times) The embassies of Kazakhstan and Kyrgyzstan urge their citizens to leave areas near Ukrainian combat zones or to leave Ukraine altogether amid an escalating risk of Russian retaliatory attacks. (The Times of Central Asia) Mali War Fall of Timbuktu The International Criminal Court sentences Malian Islamist militant and Ansar Dine member al-Hassan Ag Abdoul Aziz to 10 years in prison on charges of war crimes and crimes against humanity committed in 2012 and 2013 in Timbuktu, Mali. (Al Jazeera) Sudanese civil war Battle of Khartoum The Sudanese Armed Forces intensify their offensive in the Khartoum capital region, particularly in Khartoum North where the battle has rapidly escalated. (Sudan Tribune) Syrian civil war Israel's role in the Syrian civil war Thirty-six people are killed and more than 50 others are injured in Israeli airstrikes in Palmyra, Syria. (Reuters) Business and economy German economic crisis American automaker Ford announces that it will cut 4,000 jobs in Europe, including 2,900 in Germany, citing economic instability and conflicts with environmental regulations. (Newsweek) Disasters and accidents November 2024 Northeast Pacific bomb cyclone Two people are killed and more than 570,000 people are without power when a bomb cyclone makes landfall over the West Coast of the United States and British Columbia, Canada. (CNN) (NBC News) Law and crime 2024 Baltic Sea submarine cable disruptions The Russian government denies accusations made by European governments of their involvement in sabotaging two submarine telecommunications cables in the Baltic Sea as a means of hybrid warfare. (DW) The Royal Danish Navy boards the Chinese cargo ship Yi Peng 3 in the Baltic Sea after the ship is suspected to be involved in the sabotage of the submarine cables. (EurAsia Daily) Capital punishment in Indonesia Philippine President Bongbong Marcos confirms the return of Mary Jane Veloso to the Philippines following 14 years on death row in Indonesia, after the Indonesian government implemented a policy for the repatriation of foreign prisoners. (South China Morning Post) Indian billionaire and Adani Group chairman Gautam Adani is indicted in the U.S. for his role in an alleged multi-billion dollar bribery and fraud scheme where he and seven others paid Indian government officials US$265 million to obtain contracts for Adani Green Energy. (AsiaOne) (Bloomberg) New Zealand designates Yemen's Houthi movement and Lebanon's Hezbollah as terrorist groups. (The Times of Israel) Politics and elections 2024 United Kingdom farmers' protests Deputy Prime Minister Angela Rayner dismisses concerns brought on by protests in London from United Kingdom farmers against new agricultural inheritance taxation policies as "scaremongering". (Sky News) Mali War Malian junta chief Assimi Goïta dismisses Prime Minister Choguel Kokalla Maïga for criticizing the junta government's decision to indefinitely postpone a return to civilian rule. (DW) Protests against the Russian invasion of Ukraine Around 1,671 anti-war protesters in Belarus are arrested for showing solidarity with Ukraine as part of a crackdown on opposition under President Alexander Lukashenko. (AP) Iraq imposes a two-day nationwide curfew as it conducts its first national census since 1987. (Al Jazeera) Science and technology Discoveries of exoplanets In a study published by the Nature journal, astronomers announce the discovery of IRAS 04125+2902 b, a newborn exoplanet. The discovery was made by Madyson Barber, a graduate student at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill. (Nature) (ABC News)

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(needs attention) RD: Odile Bailleux

Article: Odile Bailleux (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Le Monde
Credits:

• Updated and nominated by Gerda Arendt (talk · give credit)
• Created by LouisAlain (talk · give credit)
• Updated by Grimes2 (talk · give credit)

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

French organist and harpschordist, much admired. This source is from 21 November. One more day to expand. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 23:43, 26 November 2024 (UTC)

A review and a recording added, please check. Gerda Arendt (talk) 14:53, 27 November 2024 (UTC)

• Support decent enough article, ticks boxes for RD. @Admins willing to post ITN: Tight faded male arse. Decadence and anarchy. A certain style. Smile. 15:23, 27 November 2024 (UTC)
• Support Looks ready. Thriley (talk) 22:04, 27 November 2024 (UTC)

RD: Ursula Haverbeck

Article: Ursula Haverbeck (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): AP, DW, JTA
Credits:

• Nominated by Count Iblis (talk · give credit)
• Updated by TheHippo0 (talk · give credit)

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

 Count Iblis (talk) 10:11, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

• Comment Its difficult to find sources for the statements of Haverbeck, because Holocaust denial is illegal in several countries. Impossible to post in RD. Grimes2 (talk) 15:06, 23 November 2024 (UTC)

(Posted) RD: John Prescott

Article: John Prescott (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): BBC
Credits:

• Nominated by Amakuru (talk · give credit)

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Former deputy PM of the UK. A few additional sources needed but it's not in terrible shape.  — Amakuru (talk) 07:48, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

• Support: Lead paragraph has a citation needed flag, otherwise article is in overall good quality. Tofusaurus (talk) 12:51, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

Slow day, huh? Weak oppose - updated for the death but has a few CN tags - there's another in the article's body on a negative claim about Prescott that really should be sourced or removed. Departure– (talk) 15:36, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

• Support I've cleaned up the tags and added a few extra cites. Well written and sourced now for the man they called "Two Jags". The C of E God Save the King! (talk) 15:51, 21 November 2024 (UTC)
• Weak support. The article is extensive and has a lot of citations, but it's very dry prose and hardly a riveting read. There are classic WP:PROSELINE problems, a lack of images, and it often (particularly in the 'life after parliament section) feels like a random collection of factoids rather than a coherent biography. Still, those are stylistic issues that don't actually violate our criteria. Could do better, but good enough to post. Modest Genius ^talk 19:34, 21 November 2024 (UTC)
• Support. In good enough enough shape, despite stylistic concerns. - SchroCat (talk) 19:42, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

Support The article is good enough, except the one yellow tag. Rynoip (talk) 00:03, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

Support article isn't perfect but I think it is good enough. David Palmer//cloventt ^(talk) 00:43, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

• Oppose I've added a few more CN TAGS because there are numerous unsourced lines. The article is not perfect, but it should be close. It is not ready to be posted. _-_Alsor (talk) 13:04, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

  • Support There is still a CN TAG to be fixed, but it does not prevent from being posted. Avanti. _-_Alsor (talk) 14:01, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

• Oppose till  [citation needed] are not fixed. ExclusiveEditor _{Notify Me!} 13:25, 22 November 2024 (UTC)
• Support, per Alsoriano97 and ExclusiveEditor, who are now glad that they too can offer their fulsome support for this {{cn}}-less article. SerialNumber54129 13:46, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

• Marking this as ready and changing my vote per above. Departure– (talk) 13:49, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

@Admins willing to post ITN: looks to be ready. Abcmaxx (talk) 15:14, 23 November 2024 (UTC)

• Posted—Bagumba (talk) 16:09, 23 November 2024 (UTC)

November 19

Portal:Current events/2024 November 19

November 19, 2024 (2024-11-19) (Tuesday) Armed conflicts and attacks Russian invasion of Ukraine Military aid to Ukraine during the Russo-Ukrainian War United States and the Russian invasion of Ukraine U.S. President Joe Biden approves of sending non-persistent anti-personnel mines to Ukraine, with Ukraine committing to not use them in areas with civilians. (Al Jazeera) The United Kingdom and France both prepare new military packages containing long-range missiles to send to Ukraine following President Biden's decision to allow deep strikes into Russian territory using American weapons. (Newsweek) Attacks in Russia during the Russian invasion of Ukraine Ukraine launches ATACMS ballistic missiles at targets in Bryansk Oblast, Russia, according to the Russian Defence Ministry. It is the first time that Ukraine has used the American-supplied missiles to strike targets inside Russia. (BBC News) Nuclear risk during the Russian invasion of Ukraine, Russia and weapons of mass destruction Russian President Vladimir Putin signs a decree that allows Russia to use nuclear weapons in response to conventional attacks by a non-nuclear state supported by a nuclear power. (Reuters) Israel–Hezbollah conflict 2024 Israeli invasion of Lebanon Three Lebanese soldiers are killed and 17 other people are injured in an Israeli airstrike in Sarafand, Lebanon. (Al Jazeera) (Times of Israel) Haitian crisis Twenty-eight suspected gang members are killed by police and residents in Pétion-Ville, Port-au-Prince, Haiti. (Al Jazeera) (The Jamaica Observer) Doctors Without Borders announces it will suspend operations in Port-au-Prince indefinitely following rape and death threats from Haitian police. (DW) Insurgency in Khyber Pakhtunkhwa Twelve soldiers are killed and others are wounded after a suicide car bombing targeting a security post in Bannu, Khyber Pakhtunkhwa, Pakistan. Six Hafiz Gul Bahadur Group gunmen are killed in the ensuing shootout. (AP) Business and economy 2024 Boeing machinists strike American aerospace company Boeing announces it will layoff 17,000 workers by the end of 2024, 10% of its global workforce, due to financial difficulties following the machinists strike. (Assembly Magazine) (WAFB9) International relations 2024 G20 Rio de Janeiro summit South Africa becomes the first country from Africa to chair the G20 after receiving the leadership position during the second day of the summit in Rio de Janeiro, Brazil. (Tempo) Law and crime 2020 Hong Kong pro-democracy primaries, Hong Kong 47 Forty-five pro-democracy activists in Hong Kong are sentenced to prison terms of between four and 10 years over an unofficial primary held in 2020. (Reuters) 2022–2023 Brazilian election protests Brazilian Federal Police arrest five people, including four G20 security guards, for their alleged involvement in a plot to assassinate President Lula da Silva and Vice President Geraldo Alckmin following the general election in 2022. (Al Jazeera) The Tunisian coast guard announces that on the night of November 8, a patrol boat rammed and sank a boat carrying migrants on its coasts, killing 53 people. (Fanpage) Politics and elections 2023–2024 Georgian protests Georgian police reportedly break up tent camps while beating and detaining protesters in Tbilisi, Georgia, demonstrating against the allegedly rigged parliamentary election in October. (DW) 2024 Abkhazian protests Abkhazian President Aslan Bzhania resigns following negotiations with the opposition and is succeeded by Vice President Badra Gunba as acting president. (Abkhaz World) (Reuters) 2024 United Kingdom farmers' protests Thousands of British farmers protest at the Houses of Parliament in London, United Kingdom, against a new inheritance tax on land ownership that includes farms. (Al Jazeera) (BBC News) 2024 Venezuelan presidential election, United States–Venezuela relations The United States announces it recognizes Venezuelan opposition leader Edmundo González as the President-elect following the presidential election in July. (Al Jazeera) Hīkoi mō te Tiriti Over 40,000 people gather in front of the New Zealand Parliament House in Wellington to protest against the Treaty Principles Bill that would change Māori people's rights, making it one of the largest protests in the country. (DW) Science and technology SpaceX launches their sixth Starship rocket at the Boca Chica launch pad in Brownsville, Texas, U.S. (Reuters)

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(Posted) 2024 Somaliland presidential election

Article: 2024 Somaliland presidential election (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Opposition candidate Abdirahman Mohamed Abdullahi "Irro" (pictured) is confirmed to have won the 2024 Somaliland presidential election, beating incumbent President Muse Bihi Abdi. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ Abdirahman Mohamed Abdullahi is elected President of Somaliland.
News source(s): [25][26][27]
Credits:

• Created and nominated by Subayerboombastic (talk · give credit)

 Subayerboombastic (talk) 05:48, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

Comment: Somaliland is not fully internationally recognized as a sovereign state. Harizotoh9 (talk) 07:18, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

Nor is Taiwan, but both are de facto independent and functioning democracies. I'm undecided whether that is sufficient to post, but it certainly isn't a clear-cut case. Modest Genius ^talk 12:11, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

The argument for posting about elections in the Republic of China is entirely different than posting about elections in breakaway separatist republics. Scuba 16:26, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

Isn't Taiwan a breakaway rebel province (PRC view) or the legitimate government (ROC view)? Howard the Duck (talk) 01:05, 24 November 2024 (UTC)

Taiwan is much more recognized than Somaliland though. Harizotoh9 (talk) 13:42, 23 November 2024 (UTC)

Oppose we don't post election results for unrecognized states like Transnistria, South Ossetia, Abkhazia (whose government was toppled 3 days ago). Scuba 16:25, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

WP:NOTFORUM. The Kip (contribs) 01:07, 24 November 2024 (UTC)
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
@Scu ba: Apples and pears, Somaliland isn't a puppet state propped up by a globe-threatening dictatorship. Abcmaxx (talk) 15:17, 23 November 2024 (UTC) True, it's just propped up by a region threatening dictatorship. Scuba 16:13, 23 November 2024 (UTC)

Support ITN has posted election results from the SADR (Seems I misremembered? Regardless, the distinction for which nation we deem fine and not is quite arbitrary. Somaliland functions as a state with its own independent elections, it is not a micronation or an autonomous region in its current de facto state) and even subnational entities so I would say this is fine. I'm glad someone was able to nominate this, I intended to originally regardless. A change in government too, which is notable. The article looks fine to me. Ornithoptera (talk) 17:59, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

Comment: For the record, the 2021 Somaliland parliamentary election was not only nominated but also made it to the very top of the front page https://wiki.riteme.site/wiki/Wikipedia:In_the_news/Posted/June_2021 check June 6. Yes Somaliland is Unrecognized, but it is a fully functioning democracy same as Taiwan. In the past its articles have been featured and now should be no different. Somaliland is a free standing de facto state and articles from less independent states have been featured before, such as North Cyprus. Main point being there is precedent from their election in 2021 that they can be featured so I don't see any reason why they shouldn't be. Subayerboombastic (talk) 18:28, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

• Support Not ITNR, but there is also is no hard rule against posting. We have posted Somaliland election results before. This one is particularly notable because it represents a major change - such a major change, in fact, that there are articles in reputable sources saying it may lead to Donald Trump's administration recognizing Somaliland as a state. All in all, it is drumming up news coverage and has broader ramifications in international geopolitics. Flip^andFlopped ツ 22:40, 22 November 2024 (UTC)
• Support per above, and propose altblurb. The Kip ^(contribs) 03:58, 23 November 2024 (UTC)
• Support. We look at unrecognized states on a case by case basis. They are not automatically bound. Here it looks like it has geopolitical considerations as well as being a change of a longtime governing party. -- Patar knight - ^chat/_{contributions} 04:34, 23 November 2024 (UTC)
• Support Somaliland is a de facto long-standing independent state just like any other, the only exception is that other countries have no interest in recognising them (in some cases it would be against their own interest to do so). Unlike some other examples, it's not a puppet state nor just some rogue separatists controlling a territory. The closest example would be Taiwan, although the geo-political situation and involvement of world powers is very different. I would even propose to make it ITN/R. Abcmaxx (talk) 15:27, 23 November 2024 (UTC)
• @Admins willing to post ITN: don't want this to become stale, can someone take a look at this? 5:1 ratio and both perspectives have made arguments clear. Flip^andFlopped ツ 16:24, 23 November 2024 (UTC)

Support as per Modest Genius. Recognition isn't necessary for the election results to be significant enough for ITN. --MtPenguinMonster (talk) 00:58, 24 November 2024 (UTC)

• Comment: Seems like there is consensus to post; however the prose update in the results section is too short. Spencer^T•C 04:12, 24 November 2024 (UTC)

  I exapanded this a little by the way Abcmaxx (talk) 19:36, 24 November 2024 (UTC)

• Support per aboveKowal2701 (talk) 17:19, 24 November 2024 (UTC)
• Posted without the nickname or opponent. – Muboshgu (talk) 18:45, 24 November 2024 (UTC)

(Posted) RD: Diane Coleman

Article: Diane Coleman (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): New York Times
Credits:

• Updated and nominated by TJMSmith (talk · give credit)

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: American lawyer and disability rights advocate. Died on Nov 1. First reported November 19 here: National Council on Disablity 2024. TJMSmith (talk) 03:20, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

• Support Looks ready. Thriley (talk) 17:33, 22 November 2024 (UTC)
• Posted Stephen 07:05, 23 November 2024 (UTC)

(Withdrawn) Undersea cables incident

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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Article: Transatlantic cables incident (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ The Royal Danish Navy detains a Chinese vessel in the first enforcement action since 1959 of the Convention for the Protection of Submarine Telegraph Cables. (Post)
News source(s): [28]
Credits:

• Updated and nominated by Chetsford (talk · give credit)

Article updated

 Nominator's comment: I threw this article on the 1959 incident together a few minutes ago after news of the Danish intervention broke; I believe it's in good shape but apologies for any errors or omissions due to haste Chetsford (talk) 00:50, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

Strong oppose for now - the target should be 2024 Baltic Sea submarine cable disruptions or ideally Yi Peng 3, the ship detained. If something is conclusively proven and charged in a court of law or any escalations or developments to any of the numerous wars going on worldwide come of this, maybe I'll support, but for now it's equivalent to a marginally important arrest of a private individual and therefore not ITN-worthy. Departure– (talk) 01:08, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

Withdraw as nom My apologies, I wasn't aware we had a 2024 Baltic Sea submarine cable disruptions article at all. Thanks to Departure– for pointing this out. Chetsford (talk) 01:10, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

(Posted) RD: Tony Campolo

Article: Tony Campolo (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): MSN
Credits:

• Nominated by Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk · give credit)

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: American sociologist and Baptist pastor. Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 08:52, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

• Support: Article looks good. No obvious gaps in references; If anyone observes any gaps, please point them out and we can get them addressed. KConWiki (talk) 14:33, 20 November 2024 (UTC)
• Oppose for now. there is a quote that needs a citation, but the article is otherwise in good shape. ❤HistoryTheorist❤ 21:12, 20 November 2024 (UTC)
  • What specifically is the concern you allude to? KConWiki (talk) 22:01, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

    There is like two sentences thats uncited in the article. Rynoip (talk) 22:34, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

Support Article looks good. Except for like two sentences all other sections are cited well. Rynoip (talk) 22:37, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

• Comment: If people with concerns about missing citations can put up CN tags or give which specific areas are of concern, I will be happy to attempt to resolve them. Thanks KConWiki (talk) 00:07, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

  Thanks. I have had some issues with power outages and thus lack of reliable internet, so I will do that. ❤HistoryTheorist❤ 05:09, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

• Support Not the strongest of supports because there is still some referencing work I would like to see happen, but not a dealbreaker for ITN. ❤HistoryTheorist❤ 04:40, 23 November 2024 (UTC)
• A whole load of unreferenced works. Stephen 07:03, 23 November 2024 (UTC)

  Yeah, typically would want ISBNs or similar or citations. —Bagumba (talk) 13:59, 23 November 2024 (UTC)

  • I will work on ISBNs today - KConWiki (talk) 14:35, 23 November 2024 (UTC)
• Commment: I now have gone through the entire published works section, removed a couple of duplicates, provided ISBNs for all listed works, and provided either Internet Archive or else Google Books links for almost all listed works. Anyone who would care to review and comment, please feel free. Are there any other areas of concern? Thanks to all - KConWiki (talk) 21:27, 23 November 2024 (UTC)
• Not ready I've had a look and date and place of birth are unreferenced. Schwede66 20:09, 24 November 2024 (UTC)
  • Comment: Thanks for that observation - I have now covered both birthdate and birthplace with the recent NYT obituary - KConWiki (talk) 20:35, 24 November 2024 (UTC)
• Support issues look to have been fixed. @Admins willing to post ITN: will fall off nominations soon, will we be able to post this in time please? Abcmaxx (talk) 08:52, 25 November 2024 (UTC)
• Posted – Schwede66 08:57, 25 November 2024 (UTC)

(Posted) Hīkoi mō te Tiriti

Article: Hīkoi mō te Tiriti (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Hīkoi mō te Tiriti arrives at New Zealand's Parliament with over 60,000 people after 9 day journey to protest bill that would reform the Principles of the Treaty of Waitangi amid fears it would reduce Māori rights. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ Hīkoi mō te Tiriti (pictured) arrives as the largest protest in the country's history at New Zealand's Parliament, protesting the bill that would reform the principles of the Treaty of Waitangi amid fears it would reduce Māori rights.
Alternative blurb II: ​ New Zealand witnesses the largest protest (pictured) in its history in response to a proposed bill that would reinterpret the Treaty of Waitangi.
Alternative blurb III: ​ New Zealand witnesses the largest protest (pictured) in its history in response to a proposed bill that would reform the principles of the Treaty of Waitangi.
Alternative blurb IV: ​ New Zealand witnesses one of the largest protests (pictured) in its history in response to a proposed bill that would reform the principles of the Treaty of Waitangi.
News source(s): 1news.co.nz
Credits:

• Updated and nominated by Serial Number 54129 (talk · give credit)
• Created by TheLoyalOrder (talk · give credit)

• Small country not used to seeing large marches, first nation issues, covered internationally and with long term effects. SerialNumber54129 16:40, 19 November 2024 (UTC)
• Comment The protest has broad support by Pākehā (non-Māori), hence the blurb isn't quite right. Schwede66 18:18, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

  Thanks Schwede66, blurb now tweaked. SerialNumber54129 18:59, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

  Sorry, I still don't like the blurb and have posted an altblurb for consideration. Schwede66 04:44, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

• Support - Massive international coverage, largest protests in New Zealand for a long time. PrecariousWorlds (talk) 19:07, 19 November 2024 (UTC)
• Suppport, though the blurb is inaccurate, proponents of the bill also argue it will redefine the principles, that's the point of the legislation. TheLoyalOrder (talk) 19:46, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

  @TheLoyalOrder: Tweaked. Note it was taken directly from your original lead ;) SerialNumber54129 20:47, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

• Support Per above Rynoip (talk) 19:47, 19 November 2024 (UTC)
• Weak support Plenty of coverage and it's a nationwide protest with over 30,000 in attendance in Wellington alone after all. The lede could be expanded, though. Departure– (talk) 20:19, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

  Lead expanded. SerialNumber54129 20:47, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

• Oppose as stale. These protests began on 10 November, and it has been 9 days since then. — Red-tailed hawk _(nest) 21:22, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

  The protests are in their final day as they reach Wellington and Parliament today. Departure– (talk) 21:50, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

  @Red-tailed hawk: Hello. The marches stated nine days ago relatively small. They garnered very little attention then, naturally, because of their size. This is the climax. ITN shows the Oscars, not the date the invites go out. SerialNumber54129 22:30, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

• Comment Maybe put occurs across New Zealand earlier, followed by against .... Kowal2701 (talk) 21:57, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

  occurs across New Zealand is a bit too broad, the hikoi started in Auckland and made its way down to Wellington. This all happened in the North Island, maybe occurs in major cities in the North Island of New Zealand Rynoip (talk) 23:42, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

  Not true. The marches started in various places, in both the North and South islands. They all came together in Wellington. Schwede66 08:53, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

  Clarified N. Island. SerialNumber54129 00:41, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

  could do something like: Hīkoi mō te Tiriti arrives at New Zealand's Parliament with over 60,000 people after 9 day journey to protest bill that would reform the Principles of the Treaty of Waitangi amid fears it would reduce Māori rights TheLoyalOrder (talk) 00:52, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

• Support Article is of sufficient quality and notability for ITN. --MtPenguinMonster (talk) 00:53, 20 November 2024 (UTC)
• Oppose. Fairly minor in scope as far as protests go. Nsk92 (talk) 01:10, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

  its one of the biggest (possibly the biggest) protests in New Zealand history TheLoyalOrder (talk) 01:31, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

• Oppsee Relatively peaceful compared to other protests, nor yet to shown as impactful (eg like the past India's farmer strike that actually impacted commerce in the country). --Masem (t) 01:16, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

  Protests don't have to be violent to be meaningful and impactful. AusLondonder (talk) 19:53, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

  There are protests nearly happening every day around the world. We have no room to cover them all, so we need to look at scale and impact. This specific protest lack either (particularly after it appear no laws will be changed) Masem (t) 20:05, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

• Support the hīkoi is seven times the size of the notable 1975 Land March led by Dame Whina Cooper. Videos of MP Hana-Rwhiti Maipi-Clarke's haka in Parliament on the 14th, relevant to the hīkoi and the Treaty Priniciples Bill are already viral and in global news cycles. Ladygeekiness (talk) 01:53, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

  Link to Māori land march article for context. Schwede66 08:56, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

• Support I disagree it's minor, it has made all major news outlets around the world even in non-anglophone countries, which usually pay very little attention to New Zealand and even less so to Maori issues. The lack of violence should not be a factor on notability. Abcmaxx (talk) 09:33, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

  The barrier for inclusion in major news outlets is extremely low. That should not be used as a judgement of significance, because news reports events big and small. Masem (t) 13:00, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

  That applies to domestic news though, if this protest was not notable nor impactful it would not have gathered so much global attention. Plenty of genuinely important news does not get reported either it's a double-edged sword anyway. Abcmaxx (talk) 14:49, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

• Oppose It appears that the bill is unlikely to become law anyway and so there’s little impact. Such demonstrations and protests are common — for example, there was a big farmers’ protest in London on this day. This one doesn’t seem sufficiently significant. Andrew🐉(talk) 11:30, 20 November 2024 (UTC)
• Oppose A run-of-the-mill, peaceful protest against a bill the NZ government has said it will not back coming into law. No different from the Farmer protests here in the UK at the moment. The C of E God Save the King! (talk) 11:40, 20 November 2024 (UTC)
• Support - Absolutely notable, and rare significant news from that corner of the globe. Comparisons to other countries of course run afoul of WP:ITNATA. _{Duly signed,} ⛵ WaltClipper
• Comment - I'm utterly befuddled by the rationales used to oppose this item so far. One rationale implies that because there wasn't any violence or killing, it isn't notable; another says that because the journey across country took nine days, that it's technically outside the news cycle; and another is speculating that the bill won't become law anyway so there's no point in protesting. Much of this doesn't have any bearing on the actual significance of the item. _{Duly signed,} ⛵ WaltClipper -(talk) 13:45, 20 November 2024 (UTC)
• Support We posted the 2023 Australian Indigenous Voice referendum, this is perhaps even more significant in that it signals a rollback of already agreed upon law and rights. CRYSTALBALLing aside, about whether this may or may not pass, the protests have to be seen in the context of New Zealand politics where these are important (largest ever?) and a significant point in the country's and Maori history. Gotitbro (talk) 14:36, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

  The difference is the referendum was just that, a referendum with 15,739,686 votes. These are protests 82,000 strong (and that's being generous) in a country of 5.22 Million. Scuba 16:55, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

A meaningless comparison. Voting in a referendum in Australia is compulsory. All the NZ protesters are there by choice. HiLo48 (talk) 01:50, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

• That's 1.58% then. For comparison, someone above made a curious (and frankly nonsensical) argument that it's the same as a march of 13,000 people out of a population of 65,000,000... or .02% *facepalm* Tight faded male arse. Decadence and anarchy. A certain style. Smile. 17:13, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

  Yeah that's nonsense, the farmer's protest in the UK shouldn't be posted either and if someone nominates it I will vote oppose there too. Scuba 17:44, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

• Oppose protests aren't large enough to warrant posting. Any argument to the contrary is just a pro-Western bias. Comparing these protests to the 2024 Armenian protests for example, which had 20,000 protesters in a country of 3,000,000, several hundred arrests, and called for a regime change, the verdict of ITN was that it wasn't notable enough to post. These protests are 82,000 in a country of 5,200,000 and are seeking to preserve the special status of one ethnic group over others.

It would be a heinous double standard if we post this to ITN. Scuba 17:17, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

• These protests...are seeking to preserve the special status of one ethnic group over others is a ridiculous and cynical misrepresentation of what the protests are about. AusLondonder (talk) 19:59, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

  So you don't believe that The New Zealand Government has the right to govern all New Zealanders nor that All New Zealanders are equal under the law with the same rights and duties? Bold of you I guess. Scuba 21:50, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

  Scu ba, things are a bit more nuanced than what you make out. Maybe it's best to not argue the finer details that are hard to understand when you don't live here. Schwede66 07:25, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

  Ah yes, I forgot that you have to live in the country that the ITN/C event is taking place in in order to vote on its inclusion. Scuba 16:17, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

  Well your POV is very clear on this one. 13:29, 22 November 2024 (UTC) Secretlondon (talk) 13:29, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

  How is it ridiculous and cynical? It is precisely what it is. Rynoip (talk) 21:49, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

  82000 in 5200000 is about 1.6% of the country. How is that not large enough to be significant? --MtPenguinMonster (talk) 04:02, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

  For comparison, an equivalently-sized protest in the United states would be 5.5 million people. Turnagra (talk) 17:53, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

  The 2017 Women's March was posted the day after it happened, with an attendance between 3 and roughly 4.5 million. Departure– (talk) 18:02, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

  The Armenian protests are neither the largest there, and when seen in context of recent Armenian history, nor unique. 6 protests are registered at Protests in Armenia in relation to the current PM Nikol Pashinyan and these were the fourth regular one in the context of the current phase of the Nagorno-Karabakh conflict (whose last flare-up, 2023 Azerbaijani offensive in Nagorno-Karabakh, we posted); preceded by 2020–2021 Armenian protests, 2022 Armenian protests, 2023 Armenian protests. I think why these might not be seen as notable is evident.

  Calling the protests, which are against a minor political party's efforts to re-interpret or rather rollback the Principles of the Treaty of Waitangi (already seen as inadequate for indigenous rights in New Zealand), preservation of special treatment is rather disingenous. The view that the bill seeks to enable resource exploitation in indigenous lands without having to specifically consult those people has more currency than any purported equal treatment of the citizens of New Zealand. Gotitbro (talk) 08:25, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

  What? Do you not support equal rights for all kiwis? indigenous lands without having to specifically consult those people is a bit fake considering the bill is to make all kiwis equal without special rights or privileges. Rynoip (talk) 20:38, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

• Support largest protest that New Zealand has ever seen and has been covered extensively in major news sources across the world - the event is absolutely notable enough to post. The article itself is extensive and well-sourced, and easily of the quality we would want for a front page feature. Turnagra (talk) 17:29, 20 November 2024 (UTC)
• Support as per other editors. Largest protest in New Zealand's history sounds like something we should post, and it has even made it into German news. Both blurbs are very long however, and a bit arcane. Simpler and shorter blurb proposed. Khuft (talk) 19:32, 20 November 2024 (UTC)
• Support It's in the news and has attracted worldwide attention. ITN shouldn't ignore genuine news from smaller countries. Second blurb sounds better but would be open to other suggestions. AusLondonder (talk) 19:57, 20 November 2024 (UTC)
• Comment It would be good if we could get the Hīkoi mō te Tiriti posted now given clear consensus in favour. AusLondonder (talk) 16:12, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

  Thanks, AusLondonder. I've developed ALT3 based on your blurb and my previous ALT1. Schwede66 20:41, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

  Support per @AusLondonder, eyes are on New Zealand especially in part due to Hana-Rawhiti Maipi-Clarke's actions. TansoShoshen (talk) 06:52, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

• Comment I don't think we can call it the "largest protest" in the country's history because The Spinoff source in the article merely estimated it as being the largest, and described the difficulty in knowing for sure. The BBC described it as "one of the biggest" rather than "the biggest", so I think the blurb should reflect this. ―Panamitsu (talk) 22:09, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

  The largest protests in NZ were about the 1981 Springbok tour and involved over 150,000 people, which is more than this protest. See NZ history. And then there were events like the 1913 Great Strike when the population was much smaller. What we've got here is hype and WP:RECENTISM. Andrew🐉(talk) 23:28, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

  Note that the 150,000 protesters are the sum of the 200 protests in relation to the 1981 Springbok tour. None of them individually were anywhere near as big as the 42,000 people who were protesting in Wellington on Tuesday, as estimated by the Police. Schwede66 07:21, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

  If we are going to say that the protest against the treaty is the largest in NZ history, as alt blurbs 2 and 3 do, this needs to be backed up by a claim in the article with a verifiable citation from a reliable source. The article Hīkoi mō te Tiriti currently cites a writer for The Spinoff who "estimated it was the largest protest Wellington had ever seen, potentially the largest in New Zealand's history." The last part is hedged.

  With this in mind, I would say that:

  • The original blurb, omitting any comparisons, is fine.
  • Alt blurb 1 may be okay but it depends on how you parse it. If you parse it as "largest (protest in the country's history at New Zealand's Parliament)" then it's fine, as The Spinoff makes this exact claim very confidently. If you parse it "(largest protest in the country's history) at New Zealand's Parliament", which I think is the intended and more natural parsing, then it's problematic.
  • Alt blurbs 2 and 3 are not adequately supported by existing sources or the article text, and even though they may be true, verifiability is the most important criterion to judge them by.
  • Alt blurb 4, which uses the wording "one of the largest protests" (mirroring the BBC), is fine.
  • I might also propose something like "New Zealand witnesses the largest protest in its capital's [or: its parliament's] history...". That would be less ambiguously parsed than alt blurb 1.

  Note that the issue isn't even just about comparing head counts of a single protest vs. multiple protests aggregated. The article in The Spinoff mentions a possible 2010 protest with 80,000 people in Auckland, and although the author states that the 80K figure is "hard to prove", and even claims that the current protest is "probably" the biggest single-location NZ protest, that uncertainty may be enough of a reason to avoid outright making the claim that alt blurbs 2-3 (and 1 if you parse it the obvious way) do. 98.170.164.88 (talk) 11:04, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

  The protests you mentioned were against apartheid in South Africa, which is the single largest political matter in its modern history and which involved widespread international pressure, not just from New Zealand. If that's your comparison point, then I think this protest is doing well for significance. _{Duly signed,} ⛵ WaltClipper -(talk) 13:50, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

• Oppose Per Masem. Thriley (talk) 05:36, 21 November 2024 (UTC)
• Support Sorry, this is a rather long post. Unlike Masem, I suggest that this is a rather impactful protest. The situation reminds me of the 2004 foreshore and seabed situation; when that unfolded, I thought it was a super-big mistake by Helen Clark's Labour government. They did survive the 2005 general election, but the resentment was deep-seated enough that they didn't get through in 2008. This feels much the same; this time for Christopher Luxon's National government. In August, former PM John Key gave the current PM what I felt was a public telling off in his typical style (one of Key's nicknames is the "smiling assassin", i.e. he smiles while he's telling you off). And Newshub's chief political journalist explained yesterday that it's going to be a problem for Luxon for months to come: "This will still be going on at the start of the [next] year and the political calendar is traditionally kicked off with a number of Māori events. That is a problem for Christopher Luxon not to have it voted down by then, not to have it neutered." By the time this is over, it will have inflicted a lot of damage on the government, possibly enough that they don't survive the next election. Schwede66 08:21, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

  As this is a perennial issue which is going to keep rumbling on, why don't we wait until we get a clear impact such as the passing/withdrawal of the bill or an election result? Andrew🐉(talk) 10:30, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

  I agree with Andrew🐉: it is probably wiser to post to ITN once the bill is voted on, as that is when there will be a clearer impact. However, when that happens, the protests are still important context to include in the ITN blurb. --MtPenguinMonster (talk) 12:43, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

  The Bill got voted through its first reading last week, the hīkoi was partially in response to this. Turnagra (talk) 17:45, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

  The bill will get its second reading in six months. This is in the news now, based on the first reading. Schwede66 18:13, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

• Support. Quite a significant protest with international news attention and also in relation to size. The protest is the story here, since the coalition partners have pledged to vote the bill down after the committee stage at furher reaadings, so it will almost certainly die out.-- Patar knight - ^chat/_{contributions} 13:16, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

Support These protests are getting worldwide attention and seems to having a quite impact on the native country. LiamKorda 14:09, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

• Oppose per Masem. _-_Alsor (talk) 14:52, 21 November 2024 (UTC)
• Oppose. This is a big deal in New Zealand, but lacks long-term or wider significance. No legal change has occurred and a majority of parties have indicated that they will oppose the bill. In the end this is just a bit of domestic politics, letting a minor coalition party introduce something controversial purely so it can be demonstrated how unpopular it is. If the Treaty of Waitanga was repealed then that might be suitable for ITN, some peaceful protests against a bill that has no chance of becoming law is not. Once the bill is defeated the protests will quickly be forgotten. Modest Genius ^talk 17:28, 21 November 2024 (UTC)
• Support - we posted the protests in Israel against the judicial reform for example, and that never got implemented either. One of the, if not the, largest peaceful protest in the history of a country, one that is widely covered across the globe, merits posting. nableezy - 17:40, 21 November 2024 (UTC)
• Support, per nableezy, who puts it quite well. Due to their national scale and international coverage, as well as the lasting effects on the Indigenous rights discourse within New Zealand, I would say it's blurb worthy. Ornithoptera (talk) 18:22, 21 November 2024 (UTC)
• Support it is already one of the most significant events in New Zealand political history, just by the sheer scale of the public participation. David Palmer//cloventt ^(talk) 20:41, 21 November 2024 (UTC)
• Support It is getting widespread international coverage, which makes it rise above "mere domestic politics" as implied above. And even if it was not widespread and international in nature, being "domestic" does not make it ITN worthy, so this argument is redundant. Widespread international coverage + major domestic coverage and recordbreaking levels of domestic political participation + lasting impact on Crown-Indigenous relations in New Zealand = suitable for ITN. Flip^andFlopped ツ 22:19, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

• Comment There are 20 votes in favour and 9 votes opposed – a 2:1 ratio in favour. Both perspectives have hashed out their arguments with reasons. The general ratio is in favour and this will likely not dramatically shift, nor will new arguments emerge. As such, I have marked this nom as ready for an admin decision. Flip^andFlopped ツ 22:26, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

• Support An enormous protest for Indigenous rights that is drawing international attention. -TenorTwelve (talk) 10:58, 22 November 2024 (UTC)
• Support per nom. SerialNumber54129 11:06, 22 November 2024 (UTC)
• Comment I want to note that this article has only 4,475 views since it was created four days ago. Thriley (talk) 16:28, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

Thriley, that is because people who hear about it in the news are not likely to correctly remember or spell the name of the protest movement (it being "Hīkoi mō te Tiriti"). The general wikipedia page for Māori people went from in the vicinity of 3,000 views per day to over 300,000 total views from November 10 (first day of protests) to present. The article for the Treaty Principles Bill also rose to 100,000 views during that same period, from essentially almost zero prior to the protest beginning. These additional page view stats paint a clearer picture that there has been a surge in interest and coverage. So, just looking at that one stat in isolation is very misleading. Flip^andFlopped ツ 21:14, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

• Support per Turnagra TheHiddenCity (talk) — Preceding undated comment added 22:02, 22 November 2024 (UTC)
• @Admins willing to post ITN: Can a non-involved admin make a decision please? Abcmaxx (talk) 15:19, 23 November 2024 (UTC)
• @Admins willing to post ITN: following up on Abcmaxx and pinging again because I fear this will become stale if not posted soon. There is enough here for a decision to be made. Flip^andFlopped ツ 18:43, 24 November 2024 (UTC)

  Agree; it would be good if one of my colleagues could have a look. :-) Schwede66 20:05, 24 November 2024 (UTC)

Support posting Article quality and significance both seem sufficient, and it would be nice to post this before it's too late. As I wrote above in a reply, I prefer alt blurb 4 because the article and its sources don't adequately back up the claim of it being the very largest protest in the NZ history, though that claim is plausible. The original blurb avoids that issue but creates another: pinning down an estimated number of protestors. The 60,000 figure doesn't seem to be consistent with the numbers the article infobox uses anyway, i.e. >82,000 across the country and 42,000 specifically in Wellington/at parliament. 98.170.164.88 (talk) 04:10, 25 November 2024 (UTC)

• Oppose No long term significance as it is protesting a bill that is already known to never become law. Just a flash in the pan really like the other nearly daily protests that happen at parliament. Only difference was more people. Kiwichris (talk) 06:04, 25 November 2024 (UTC)
• @Admins willing to post ITN: Third request for a decision to be made one way or another. _{Duly signed,} ⛵ WaltClipper -(talk) 14:20, 25 November 2024 (UTC)

  Consensus has hardly changed since this was nominated and I think it was ready to go on the 20th. It would truly be a shame to see this not posted because the admins that would have posted were either involved, too busy, or considered this stale by now, which it isn't (not for the next day or so). Departure– (talk) 15:06, 25 November 2024 (UTC)

+1. IMHO, there has been a clear consensus to post for at least 5 days. I am not sure what is causing the issue here, given that we have posted a litany of other articles during this same time period. Flip^andFlopped ツ 16:33, 25 November 2024 (UTC)

• Posted Adapted version of Alt4. "New Zealand witnesses..." was an awkward construction. Spencer^T•C 16:49, 25 November 2024 (UTC)

(Posted) Hong Kong 47

Article: Hong Kong 47 (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ 45 pro-democracy activists and politicians are sentenced under the Chinese law on Hong Kong national security as a results of participation in the 2020 Hong Kong pro-democracy primaries. (Post)
News source(s): BBC
Credits:

• Nominated by Manchiu (talk · give credit)
• Updated by Natg 19 (talk · give credit)

Nominator's comments: lagrest trial under the HK national security law.-Manchiu (talk) 13:41, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

• Wait Tables are not fully filled. Aftermath section is not added yet. Besides, many activists are jailed every year, although this is significant in terms of the number of activists jailed, I don't think we should be giving special consideration to this incident. TNM101 (chat) 14:52, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

This more than "activists getting jailed", but is a greater geo-political issue of the erosion of democratic norms in Hong Kong. Natg 19 (talk) 19:27, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

• Oppose though this court case is notable, we are now in the sentencing phase, which is not as notable. The time to post this would have been in 2021 when the activists were arrested and charged. Natg 19 (talk) 16:56, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

On second thought, if we did not post this before, it would be fine to post this now. However, the article still needs improvement. Natg 19 (talk) 19:27, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

Support Article quality is now good, although the aftermath section could use some expansion. Rynoip (talk) 19:52, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

Strong oppose on quality - The article hardly seems updated following sentencing. While it is in the article, it's not nearly enough prose to (in my eyes) justify an ITN blurb. Support on notability. Departure– (talk) 20:28, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

• Support: The article is notable and looks good. Till somebody opposing on quality doesn't put forth on what point is the quality going wrong, I don't see anything wrong. ExclusiveEditor _{Notify Me!} 20:33, 19 November 2024 (UTC)
• Support Quality looks good and this is getting worldwide news attention, its certainly a notable news story to see democracy and free speech being sadly eroded in Hong Kong. The C of E God Save the King! (talk) 07:27, 20 November 2024 (UTC)
• Support - Looks alright. Also, when it comes to the current blurbs, the last one about the election is Mauritius is so old, even the winner has long forgot about it... Maybe add something more fresh, like this? 51.154.145.205 (talk) 13:41, 20 November 2024 (UTC)
• Comment The democracy movement effectively stopped in Hong Kong in 2020 when the protests were supressed. And while important in the context of those protests, I am not sure if this is an inflection point in the history of the protests or the movement itself. Gotitbro (talk) 15:05, 20 November 2024 (UTC)
• Support dystopian clampdown by the Chinese government, Also article is of high quality. Scuba 17:20, 20 November 2024 (UTC)
• Posted – Schwede66 18:48, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

RD: Shuntarō Tanikawa

Article: Shuntarō Tanikawa (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Japan Times
Credits:

• Nominated by 240F:7A:6253:1:9D37:C1EF:6040:C288 (talk · give credit)

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Japanese poet. His death announced on this day. 240F:7A:6253:1:9D37:C1EF:6040:C288 (talk) 05:58, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

• Weak oppose on article quality, i'd say add detail on what's listed on bro's greatest work, "Two Billion Light Years of Solitude (1952)". Also, if this article doesn't get approved soon, it may risk becoming stale as bro passed on november 13. BlondArkhangel (talk) 13:14, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

Two citation needed tags. Awards section has no sources. Secretlondon (talk) 23:09, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

• Now five citation needed tags and twice orange-tagged. Schwede66 18:21, 20 November 2024 (UTC)
• Oppose on quality Multiple tags TNM101 (chat) 13:37, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

November 18

Portal:Current events/2024 November 18

November 18, 2024 (2024-11-18) (Monday) Armed conflicts and attacks Russian invasion of Ukraine Russian strikes against Ukrainian infrastructure Odesa strikes Russian forces launch a missile attack on the city of Odesa, Ukraine, for the second consecutive day, killing at least ten civilians, injuring dozens of others and damaging civilian infrastructure, including residential buildings. (Ukrainska Pravda) Ukrainian energy crisis, 17 November 2024 Russian strikes on Ukraine Ukraine re-implements nationwide rolling blackouts primarily due to yesterday's destruction of energy infrastructure by Russian airstrikes. (Reuters) Israel–Hezbollah conflict 2024 Israeli invasion of Lebanon Hezbollah launches more than 100 missiles at Israel, including Tel Aviv, killing one person and injuring dozens of others. (The Times of Israel) Five people are killed and 24 others are injured in an Israeli airstrike on Zuqaq al-Blat, Beirut, Lebanon. (Al Jazeera) Hezbollah and Lebanon both agree to a United States proposal for a ceasefire. However, Israel has refused to comment. (Reuters) Insurgency in Khyber Pakhtunkhwa Security forces raid a Lashkar-e-Islam hideout in the Tirah Valley of Khyber Pakhtunkhwa, Pakistan, killing ten militants and injuring several others. (ABC News) A Pakistani Taliban ambush on a military convoy in Khyber district, Khyber Pakhtunkhwa, kills eight soldiers and wounds three others. Several gunmen are also killed. Separately, seven police officers are kidnapped in Bannu. (Voice of America) Somali Civil War Three people are killed and another is injured when a land mine, believed to have been planted by Al-Shabaab, explodes on a highway between Afgooye and Wanlaweyn in Lower Shabelle, Somalia. (Garowe Online) Twenty gang members are killed by security forces in the Gaza Strip after armed looters hijacked almost 100 trucks bringing aid for the ongoing famine. (The Guardian) Business and economy American airline Spirit Airlines files for Chapter 11 bankruptcy after years of financial losses and a failed merger attempt with JetBlue. (NPR) Disasters and accidents Three people are killed in an explosion at a fireworks factory in Ercolano, Italy. (Rai News) International relations Denmark–Somalia relations Denmark and Somalia reach an agreement to relieve more than $8.5 million of Somali debt. (Horseed Media) Law and crime 2024 Baltic Sea submarine cable disruptions The C-Lion1 submarine communications cable across the Baltic Sea between Finland and Germany is damaged in what German officials suspect is sabotage. (The Guardian) Three people are killed in a stabbing spree in Manhattan, New York, United States. The perpetrator is arrested. (CNN)

---

(ATTENTION NEEDED) RD: Colin Petersen

Article: Colin Petersen (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Deccan Herald
Credits:

• Nominated by Ollieisanerd (talk · give credit)
• Created by Bostart (talk · give credit)
• Updated by TheCorriynial (talk · give credit)

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Australian drummer for the Bee Gees. Ollieisanerd (talk • contribs) 17:56, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

Some citations needed, and uncited paragraphs. Secretlondon (talk) 23:11, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

• Comment no citation needed tags remaining. Ollieisanerd (talk • contribs) 20:00, 25 November 2024 (UTC)

  Article is ready to be posted. Ollieisanerd (talk • contribs) 22:08, 25 November 2024 (UTC)

(Posted) RD: Bob Love

Article: Bob Love (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): NYT
Credits:

• Nominated by Staraction (talk · give credit)
• Updated by Leeapp (talk · give credit)

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: American basketball player. Needs additional work (orange-tagged). Staraction (talk | contribs) 05:19, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

• Support: Seems notable. Hacked (Talk|Contribs) 05:25, 19 November 2024 (UTC)
  • @Stephen: this is why I wanted it included in the header. Might be in the template, but it's not visible enough. Abcmaxx (talk) 06:57, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

    You think people read the instructions at the top? Especially what would be points 7) and 8). It's a perennial problem. Stephen 07:21, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

• They're more likely to read the top of the page than somewhere in the depth of the many policies. Abcmaxx (talk) 12:00, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

• Failing to read detailed instructions is normal behaviour – see banner blindness and WP:CREEP. If you don't want people casting such !votes then the format of the process should be changed so that it's a checklist rather than a call for !votes. Andrew🐉(talk) 08:26, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

  It's not WP:CREEP if it's already a rule. Abcmaxx (talk) 11:59, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

• Support The orange banner tag was placed in 2010 which is 14 years ago! Since that time, the article has been expanded greatly and the number of citations increased from 2 to 27. As there's no current indication or discussion of specific problems with the article and the article seems quite adequate, I just removed the obsolete tag. If people think there's a problem, they need to be specific. Andrew🐉(talk) 08:16, 19 November 2024 (UTC)
• Support. Citations have been completed. Marked as ready. Flibirigit (talk) 13:16, 19 November 2024 (UTC)
• Posted to RD. Spencer^T•C 20:04, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

RD: Arthur Frommer

Article: Arthur Frommer (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Travel Weekly, NYTimes, LATimes, CNN, BBC, Guardian, NPR, People
Credits:

• Nominated by Thriley (talk · give credit)

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Founder of Frommer's travel guide book series. Thriley (talk) 01:31, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

Soft oppose: Chunks of the article aren't cited, there are also no sections and it's lacking in prose. Scuba 02:06, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

(Posted) RD: György Pauk

Article: György Pauk (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The Strad
Credits:

• Updated and nominated by Grimes2 (talk · give credit)
• Updated by CurryTime7-24 (talk · give credit)

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Hungarian violinist, Bartók expert. Grimes2 (talk) 23:09, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

Support article is properly cited. Scuba 02:07, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

• Posted Stephen 03:58, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

2024 Senegalese parliamentary election

Article: 2024 Senegalese parliamentary election (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ The PASTEF party, led by Ousmane Sonko (pictured), claims victory in the 2024 Senegalese parliamentary election (Post)
News source(s): France 24 Deutsch Welle
Credits:

• Nominated by Scu ba (talk · give credit)
• Created by Number 57 (talk · give credit)
• Updated by Borgenland (talk · give credit)

Article needs updating
The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.

Nominator's comments: Article needs serious work, and needs to be updated, but when that is done this is ITN/R. More of a call to action for people to edit the article at the moment rather than a true submission to the board. Scuba 04:21, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

These sources are all dated from 18 November so this submission should be moved to tomorrow. Senegal uses UTC. Departure– (talk) 04:27, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

Moved. Scuba 04:30, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

• Wait until an official winner is announced. I will say I don't know much about how election works in Senegal. INeedSupport ^:3 15:29, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

Weak oppose on quality as the article is very short, although it seems well sourced. Per AP, other major parties have conceded defeat to PASTEF and their victory seems all but guaranteed. I'd just like to confirm however, Sonko is the leader of PASTEF but he isn't mentioned in the AP article - I don't know enough about Senegalese politics to draw a major conclusion on this though. Departure– (talk) 17:17, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

November 17

Portal:Current events/2024 November 17

November 17, 2024 (2024-11-17) (Sunday) Armed conflicts and attacks Russian invasion of Ukraine Russian strikes against Ukrainian infrastructure, Ukrainian energy crisis 17 November 2024 Russian strikes on Ukraine Russia launches its largest aerial attack on Ukraine in months. According to President of Ukraine Volodymyr Zelenskyy, around 120 missiles and 90 drones were launched, damaging energy infrastructure across the country, killing at least seven people, and causing widespread damage. (CNN) (BBC News) Ten people are killed and 52 others are injured in a Russian missile strike on an apartment building in Sumy, Ukraine. (Reuters) United States President Joe Biden lifts restrictions on the Ukrainian use of U.S. weapons for deep attacks inside Russia, with Ukrainian forces planning to use the weapons in long-distance attacks in the coming days. (Reuters) Israel–Hamas war Palestinian genocide accusation Pope Francis calls for the global community to investigate whether Israel is committing genocide in Gaza. (CNN) Siege of North Gaza At least 72 people are killed, a third of whom are children, in an Israeli strike against a residential building in Beit Lahia, in northern Gaza. (Al Jazeera) (AsiaOne) Israel–Hezbollah conflict 2024 Israeli invasion of Lebanon An Israeli airstrike on the Lebanese Ba'ath Party headquarters in Ras el-Nabaa, Beirut, Lebanon, kills seven people, including Hezbollah spokesman Mohammed Afif. Sixteen others are wounded. Three people are also killed and 29 more injured in another airstrike in Mar Elias. (Barron's) (Al Jazeera) Disasters and accidents 2024 Atlantic hurricane season Tropical Storm Sara makes landfall in Belize after causing flooding in Honduras. (AP) 2024 Pacific typhoon season Typhoon Man-yi makes landfall in the Philippines as a Category 4 super typhoon, three days after Typhoon Usagi struck the country and becoming the sixth consecutive storm to affect Luzon in the past month. At least eight people are killed. (Al Jazeera) (BBC News) Health and environment One fatality and dozens of illnesses are linked to an E. coli outbreak of U.S.-grown organic carrots. (CTV News) Law and crime Two people are killed and nine others are injured in two shooting incidents near a parade route in New Orleans, Louisiana, United States. (AP) Politics and elections 2024 Senegalese parliamentary election Citizens of Senegal vote for the 165 seats of the National Assembly after President Bassirou Diomaye Faye dissolved the parliament in September. (DW) Hundreds of people march in a protest against Russian President Vladimir Putin in Berlin, Germany, which was called by opposition leaders-in-exile Yulia Navalnaya, Vladimir Kara-Murza, and Ilya Yashin. (DW) Sports 111th Grey Cup In Canadian football, the Toronto Argonauts defeat the Winnipeg Blue Bombers 41–24 to claim their 19th Canadian Football League title. (TSN) Toronto Argonauts quarterback Nick Arbuckle is named the most valuable player and wide receiver Dejon Brissett is named the most valuable Canadian. (TSN) 2024 ATP Finals In tennis, Jannik Sinner defeats Taylor Fritz, 6–4, 6–4 to win his first ATP Finals singles title. (CNN) 2024 MotoGP World Championship In motorcycle racing, Prima Pramac Racing driver Jorge Martín wins the 2024 MotoGP World Championship, becoming the first independent driver to win the title in the MotoGP era. (Al Jazeera)

---

RD: Artur Sarnat

Article: Artur Sarnat (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Wisła Kraków
Credits:

• Nominated by Abcmaxx (talk · give credit)

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Article needs expansion, but given the available sources should be easy to do. Abcmaxx (talk) 10:36, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

• Soft support article looks decent, albeit very short. Scuba 02:07, 19 November 2024 (UTC)
• We don't post stubs. Schwede66 18:11, 20 November 2024 (UTC)
• Comment Size is cuurently 970 B (162 words) readable prose.—Bagumba (talk) 13:58, 23 November 2024 (UTC)
• Still only 162 words of prose and too stubby for consideration. --PFHLai (talk) 12:54, 24 November 2024 (UTC)

(Posted) 2024 MotoGP World Championship

Article: 2024 MotoGP World Championship (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ In motorcycle racing, Jorge Martín (pictured) wins the MotoGP World Championship. (Post)
News source(s): Eurosport
Credits:

• Nominated by Unnamelessness (talk · give credit)

Article updated
The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.

 Unnamelessness (talk) 14:01, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

• Comment is there a reason there are no infoboxes like in other sports season articles? Abcmaxx (talk) 14:54, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

Soft oppose needs an infobox. Scuba 21:15, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

There is no such rule. HiLo48 (talk) 01:27, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

As far as I can tell, none of the MotoGP championship articles have an infobox. The 🏎 Corvette 🏍 ZR1^{(The Garage)} 00:33, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

Yes but my question is why? Abcmaxx (talk) 01:32, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

Okay, well, that's a problem. Scuba 02:40, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

The use of infoboxes is neither required nor prohibited for any article per MOS:INFOBOXUSE... there doesn't need to be one on any article, so its not a problem. Happily888 (talk) 03:33, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

I'm not saying it's a requirement, I'm just wondering why aren't there any, especially given they’re very useful on sports season articles. Abcmaxx (talk) 08:55, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

It's not a requirement, but it would be nice to have, and there isn't really a reason to not have one. Scuba 02:08, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

Infoboxes or not might be something to raise with the WikiProject- which I guess would be Wikipedia:WikiProject Motorsport as Wikipedia:WikiProject Motorcycle racing looks to be inactive. Joseph2302 (talk) 11:47, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

• Weak support the season summary could be expanded, but is just about good enough for the article to pass WP:ITNQUALITY. The existence of an infobox is not a requirement for ITN, and so any votes based on that should be disregarded. Joseph2302 (talk) 09:30, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

• Support ITNR, well cited, infobox is not necessary. ExclusiveEditor _{Notify Me!} 09:35, 18 November 2024 (UTC)
• Support. The season summary is detailed and well referenced. The rest of the article is mostly bullet points and tables, which isn't great, but it's in a good enough state to meet our requirements for posting. Modest Genius ^talk 15:26, 21 November 2024 (UTC)
• Support Infobox = mildly cretinous. SerialNumber54129 16:13, 21 November 2024 (UTC)
• Comment Can any admin have a look at this? Unnamelessness (talk) 11:23, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

@Admins willing to post ITN: Natg 19 (talk) 01:01, 23 November 2024 (UTC)

• Posted Stephen 07:00, 23 November 2024 (UTC)

(Posted) 111th Grey Cup

Article: 111th Grey Cup (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ In Canadian football, the Toronto Argonauts (MVP Nick Arbuckle pictured) defeat the Winnipeg Blue Bombers to win the Grey Cup. (Post)
News source(s): TSN
Credits:

• Nominated by Moraljaya67 (talk · give credit)
• Updated by Cmm3 (talk · give credit)

Article needs updating
The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.

Nominator's comments: I know that this article needs a game summary for this like in other sports (i.e. NFL, NBA, AFL, etc.) Moraljaya67 (talk) 04:10, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

I should note that the Grey Cup is ITNR so discussion should focus on quality instead of notability. Strong oppose on quality, much of the article is written in future tense and no details about the game itself are present. Departure– (talk) 04:14, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

• Support Quality has improved significantly since this was nominated. Departure– (talk) 13:15, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

• Comment: Changed to ITNR since the Grey Cup is in recurring item. Moraljaya67 (talk) 04:17, 18 November 2024 (UTC)
• Oppose there's absolutely no description or indeed any information at all on the game. It's all background trivia at the moment. Abcmaxx (talk) 09:25, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

  Support significant expansion and re-write, this is the kind of improvement that ITN nominations were made for. Abcmaxx (talk) 14:57, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

• Oppose needs proper match summary. Joseph2302 (talk) 09:31, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

  Support looks much better now, meets WP:ITNQUALITY. Also, the yellow-tagged MOS issue I raised has also been resolved, so thank you. :) Joseph2302 (talk) 11:42, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

Oppose summary that was added is all original research and has no citations. Scuba 02:04, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

Support problems with the article have been fixed. Scuba 04:25, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

• Support: The teams' summary, scoring summary, and stats tables have now been added. The game summary has been re-written with references. Pictures from the game have also been uploaded and added. I'm also suggesting a change to the key image, since this is from the MVP award presentation. I'm seeking reconsideration from @Departure–:, @Abcmaxx:, @Joseph2302:, @Scu ba: and support from @WikiOriginal-9: and @GreenRunner0: Cmm3 (talk) 04:00, 21 November 2024 (UTC)
• Support Its in a good state for this. GreenRunner0 04:43, 21 November 2024 (UTC)
• Support. The article looks in good shape to me. All the oppose !votes have switched to support, so I'm marking this as ready. Modest Genius ^talk 15:31, 21 November 2024 (UTC)
• Posted -- Patar knight - ^chat/_{contributions} 18:04, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

November 16

Portal:Current events/2024 November 16

November 16, 2024 (2024-11-16) (Saturday) Armed conflicts and attacks Insurgency in Balochistan Seven paramilitary soldiers are killed and 18 are wounded by a Balochistan Liberation Army attack on a checkpoint in Kalat District, Balochistan, Pakistan. (Reuters) Arts and culture Miss Universe 2024 Danish model Victoria Kjær Theilvig is crowned Miss Universe, becoming the first Dane to win the competition. (CNN) (AP) Health and environment 2023–2024 mpox epidemic California confirms its first case of Clade I mpox in a person who travelled to East Africa, becoming the first confirmed case of Clade I mpox in the United States. (Reuters) Disasters and accidents At least 13 people are killed and 80 rescued after a building collapses in Dar es Salaam, Tanzania. (Reuters) International relations APEC Peru 2024 At the Asia-Pacific Economic Cooperation summit in Peru, outgoing U.S. President Joe Biden meets with Chinese President Xi Jinping for their final meeting before Biden leaves office on January 20th. During the meeting, Biden and Xi talk about topics like cyber crime, trade, Taiwan, and Russia. Xi also said that his team will work with the incoming Trump administration. (Reuters) Law and crime 2024 Wuxi stabbing attack Eight people are killed and 17 others are injured in a stabbing spree at the Wuxi Institute of Technology in Yixing, Jiangsu, China. The suspect, a 21-year-old student, is arrested. (CNN) (Reuters) A man barricades himself inside his father's restaurant in Issy-les-Moulineaux, France, taking restaurant employees as hostages. The hostages are later rescued and the man is arrested. (BFM TV) (The Jerusalem Post) Argentina orders the arrest of 61 Brazilian citizens currently living in Argentina who are accused of participating in the 2023 Brazilian Congress attack. (Reuters) Politics and elections 2024 Gabonese constitutional referendum Citizens of Gabon vote on a proposed new constitution, including replacing the current semi-presidential system with a presidential system following the 2023 coup. (DW)

---

(Ready) RD: John Hine

Article: John Hine (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Catholic Hierachy, Archdiocese of Southwark
Credits:

• Nominated by The C of E (talk · give credit)
• Updated by Mohamad Darilin (talk · give credit)

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: English Catholic Bishop  The C of E God Save the King! (talk) 07:31, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

• Comment Unreliable obituary? Grimes2 (talk) 21:18, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

I've added another source. ExclusiveEditor _{Notify Me!} 06:01, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

• Support seems ready with the additional source; hopefully can be posted before it rolls off ITNC. Flip^andFlopped ツ 16:22, 23 November 2024 (UTC)

(Closed) 2024 Wuxi stabbing attack

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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Article: 2024 Wuxi stabbing attack (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ A stabbing attack in Wuxi, China kills 8 and injures 17. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ In a school in Wuxi, China, a graduate student stabs 25.
News source(s): AP
Credits:

• Nominated by CanonNi (talk · give credit)
• Created by Swinub (talk · give credit)
• Updated by Bloxzge 025 (talk · give credit) and Tokisaki Kurumi (talk · give credit)

Article updated

Nominator's comments: Second mass attack in a week. (the first being the ramming) '''[[User:CanonNi]]''' (talk • contribs) 05:53, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

• I've moved this here. (previously under November 19)  Self-trout '''[[User:CanonNi]]''' (talk • contribs) 07:40, 19 November 2024 (UTC)
• Weak Support Article quality is fine but could use some work. The stabbing is very notable. INeedSupport ^:3 17:38, 19 November 2024 (UTC)
• Support on notability, quality could use some work though. Rynoip (talk) 19:43, 19 November 2024 (UTC)
• Support, notable school attack with a large amount of victims. Article needs a little more information though. Bloxzge 025 (talk)
• This needs a few more eyes and comments. Schwede66 18:00, 20 November 2024 (UTC)
• Support: It is notable, and well cited, and not bad in length especially given that the incident happened in China. ExclusiveEditor _{Notify Me!} 05:58, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

RD: Vladimir Shklyarov

Article: Vladimir Shklyarov (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The Guardian
Credits:

• Nominated by Abcmaxx (talk · give credit)

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Article not too bad, needs a few more citations in places though. Needs a section on their death given that he was taking painkillers for an injury and fell from fifth floor of a building in St. Petersburg. Abcmaxx (talk) 10:09, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

• The sections "Repertoire" and "Awards and honours" are missing many citations. Schwede66 01:15, 23 November 2024 (UTC)

RD: Gerry Weil

Article: Gerry Weil (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): El Nacional
Credits:

• Nominated by NoonIcarus (talk · give credit)

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Austrian-born Venezuelan jazz musician. NoonIcarus (talk) 20:54, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

Oppose Article is a stub, nothing about his personal life. Rynoip (talk) 22:03, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

(Posted) RD: Pat Koch Thaler

Article: Pat Koch Thaler (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): NY Times
Credits:

• Updated and nominated by TJMSmith (talk · give credit)

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: American educator, author, and activist. TJMSmith (talk) 19:32, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

Support Article is sufficiently cited and in good quality. Rynoip (talk) 22:04, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

• Posted Stephen 06:51, 23 November 2024 (UTC)

RD: Béla Károlyi

Article: Béla Károlyi (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): NY Times
Credits:

• Nominated by Estreyeria (talk · give credit)

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Romanian-American gymnastics coach of nine Olympic champions. Seems to be missing some citations. Estreyeria (talk) 02:28, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

Soft oppose article was looking good, until the 1999–2000 section, which is practically uncited. Scuba 03:57, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

(Posted) RD: Olav Thon

Article: Olav Thon (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): NTB
Credits:

• Nominated by TDKR Chicago 101 (talk · give credit)
• Updated by Jkaharper (talk · give credit) and Marius1603 (talk · give credit)

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Article updated and well sourced --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 13:35, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

• Weak Oppose: Short, could be lengthened by translating sourced material from the corresponding Norwegian article first, it has additional 14 citations at least. ExclusiveEditor _{Notify Me!} 15:03, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

  @ExclusiveEditor: How about now? Added an early life section. TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 15:34, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

• Support Looks well sourced. For a 101 year old his bio could be longer, but this will suffice. Shanes (talk) 17:37, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

Support Looks like a long enough article and well sourced. - Sebbog13 (talk) 03:08, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

Support Article looks good. Scuba 03:58, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

• Posted – Schwede66 17:47, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

RD: Ahmed Mohamed Mohamoud

Article: Ahmed Mohamed Mohamoud (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): (BBC Somali) (VOA Somali) (The Eastleigh Voice)
Credits:

• Nominated by QalasQalas (talk · give credit)
• Updated by Mohamad Darilin (talk · give credit) and TDKR Chicago 101 (talk · give credit)

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: The former Somaliland president died on November 15, coverage of his death started on November 16. The overall article seems well-cited with reliable and primary citations needed for some awards. QalasQalas (talk) 11:06, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

Oppose overall article looks good at a glance, until you notice a bunch of paragraphs with no citation. Scuba 03:07, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

November 15

Portal:Current events/2024 November 15

November 15, 2024 (2024-11-15) (Friday) Armed conflicts and attacks Colombian conflict Thirteen National Liberation Army militants and a police lieutenant were killed during a serie of shootouts with soldiers and police officers in Bolívar and Arauca, Colombia. Other twelve militants were arrested during the operations.(El Publico Tv) Allied Democratic Forces insurgency, Kivu conflict Thirteen people are killed, others are kidnapped and houses are burned by Allied Democratic Forces gunmen in Mabisu, North Kivu, Democratic Republic of the Congo. (AP) Business and economy The Canadian Union of Postal Workers go on strike after failing to renegotiate their contract with Canada Post. (AP) The purchase of conspiracy theory website InfoWars to the satirical news content maker The Onion is put on hold by a Texas judge after lawyers representing InfoWars founder Alex Jones claimed to find irregularities in the auctioning process. The Onion say they plan to complete their purchase. (The Guardian) Disasters and accidents At least ten people are killed in a fire at a retirement residence in Villafranca de Ebro, Zaragoza, Spain. (The Washington Post) 2024 Jhansi hospital fire Ten infants are killed and 16 others are injured in a fire inside a neonatal intensive care unit at the Jhansi Medical College hospital in Jhansi, Uttar Pradesh, North India. (AP) International relations Austria–Russia relations Austrian energy company OMV announces, that Russian state-owned energy company Gazprom will stop supplying natural gas to Austria, who receives their natural gas primarily from Russia, starting this weekend. (DW) Russian invasion of Ukraine, Germany–Russia relations German Chancellor Olaf Scholz holds a telephone call with Russian President Vladimir Putin about the war in Ukraine, their first contact since 2022. Putin tells Scholz that any negotiated settlement to end the war must recognize the territories that Russia has occupied as part of Russia and that Ukraine must abandon its aspiration to join NATO. (AP) (The New York Times) Law and crime 2024 Abkhazian protests Protestors storm the Parliament of Abkhazia in the capital Sukhumi in opposition to a proposed measure that would allow Russians to buy property in Abkhazia. Opposition leader Eshsou Kakalia claims that protestors now control the building. (Al Jazeera) Assassination of Malcolm X Three daughters of civil rights activist Malcolm X file a $100 million wrongful death lawsuit against the CIA, the FBI, and the New York Police Department for their alleged roles in the assassination of Malcolm X. (AP) Israel–Hamas war protests American ice cream company Ben & Jerry's sues their parent company Unilever in a federal court for allegedly censoring their statements supporting Gaza. (AP) (Business Insider) Politics and elections 2024 Sri Lankan parliamentary election Sri Lankan President Anura Kumara Dissanayake's National People's Power coalition wins a supermajority in the snap election for the 17th Parliament of Sri Lanka. (Reuters) Second presidential transition of Donald Trump President-elect of the United States Donald Trump names Karoline Leavitt as the White House Press Secretary for his second term in office, which will make her the youngest ever person to serve in the role at 27 years old. (AP) Kyrgyzstan President Sadyr Japarov opens the Zhany-Barak village in the Osh Region of Kyrgyzstan for resettled residents of the Barak exclave in Uzbekistan. (24.kg) Croatian Prime Minister Andrej Plenković dismisses health minister Vili Beroš on suspicions of corruption. (DW)

---

(Posted) RD: Jon Kenny

Article: Jon Kenny (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): [29],[30],[31]
Credits:

• Updated and nominated by Serial Number 54129 (talk · give credit)
• Updated by Erksahin (talk · give credit)

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Irish actor and comedian. Known for The Banshees of Inisherin among other things. Filmography (as usual) needs sourcing—being worked on now now sourced. SerialNumber54129 20:50, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

Support looks good, refreshing to see a fully cited filmography. Scuba 03:59, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

• Already posted by another admin a few hours ago. --PFHLai (talk) 23:32, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

(Posted) RD: Celeste Caeiro

Article: Celeste Caeiro (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Reuters
Credits:

• Updated and nominated by Alsoriano97 (talk · give credit)
• Updated by Normantas Bataitis (talk · give credit) and Jkaharper (talk · give credit)

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Celeste dos Cravos, the woman who, giving her carnations to the soldiers, gave the name to the 1974 Carnation Revolution in Portugal. Been working on the article and I think it is already in a good state to be posted. _-_Alsor (talk) 11:16, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

• Support, the article is ready to be posted. Alexcalamaro (talk) 18:10, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

Support article looks good. Scuba 04:00, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

• Posted to RD. Spencer^T•C 20:00, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

(Closed) Jake Paul vs. Mike Tyson

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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Article: Jake Paul vs. Mike Tyson (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ In boxing, influencer Jake Paul defeats 58 year old former heavyweight champion Mike Tyson. On the same card, Katie Taylor wins her second fight against Amanda Serrano. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ In boxing, influencer Jake Paul defeats 58 year old former heavyweight champion Mike Tyson.
Alternative blurb II: ​ In boxing, influencer Jake Paul defeats former heavyweight champion Mike Tyson and Katie Taylor defeats Amanda Serrano.
News source(s): [[32]]
Credits:

• Nominated by BlondArkhangel (talk · give credit)

Nominator's comments: Significant in not only boxing, but sports in general. Appealed to a diverse audience of traditional boxing icons and celebrity-driven boxing with over 100 million people tuned in to watch the event. Also the first Netflix live sports stream, which was met with widespread criticism. Additionally, significant in women's boxing was the undercard of this event which was Taylor vs. Serrano. BlondArkhangel (talk) 06:10, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

• Comment. Firstly, thanks for this contribution BlondArkhangel. We continue to look for newer contributors such as yourself. Regarding this nomination, I was thinking that it would have been a WP:SNOW close given the reasonably high bar on posting that this project has. However, I saw that we had posted Floyd Mayweather vs. Conor McGregor in 2017. So, I am not sure how this will go. Btw, I, a novice to this sport, saw the women's fight and it was quite something. Congrats to the winners irrespective of the posting decision. Ktin (talk) 06:38, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

  Thank you. I also am not really into boxing but found this event to be extremely exciting. As far as I can tell, this event had two important fights in the world of boxing, and I actually think the Taylor-Serrano fight was actually a more anticipated fight for the boxing community, whereas the main event fight was more of a meh but still fun idea that gained lots of popularity. The fight itself was so huge that Netflix crashed and buffered multiple times, likely from the millions of people trying to watch it at the same time. Did you experience buffering while you were watching it? BlondArkhangel (talk) 06:55, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

• Oppose don't think we have posted any recent boxing results. And this one (Paul vs Tyson) is not significant enough, as it was not even a title bout, but just a publicity stunt. Natg 19 (talk) 06:39, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

  I don't see how the frequency of posting boxing results should be a criteria for ITN. Mike Tyson, is a pop culture figure and among one of the most dominant and famous boxers in his era. This event was talked about by many in and outside of the sports world and narrated as a 58 year old man is coming out of retirement to beat an influencer in Jake Paul. In the sports world this event, even if it was a publicity stunt, has a lot of significant aspects to it that have attracted the likes of people who don't even box. However, I would argue it wasn't just a publicity stunt, Taylor and Serrano's rematch was extremely hyped in the boxing community and a well fought one at that. BlondArkhangel (talk) 07:07, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

  Tyson Fury vs Oleksandr Usyk was posted earlier this year, but that was a fight for the undisputed heavyweight title. Blaylockjam10 (talk) 10:27, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

Weak oppose, I'm more inclined to see this as entertainment news(which we try to avoid), rather than sport news. WP:ITNSPORTS doesn't say anything about boxing, but my understanding is that his was a relatively routine fight that is not worthy of ITN. –DMartin 07:03, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

• Support I think this is notable, but not for the same reasons the blurb currently implies - hear me out. Never before has a fight been live-streamed simultaneously to so many: according to Rolling Stone, 120 million households tuned in. To put that in context, when we posted Floyd-Mayweather back in 2017, that was called "record-breaking" because it simulcasted to 50 million (source).The fact that Netflix streamed this, as opposed to PPV or a cable provider, is a huge story for the future of sport and television. Soon, the NFL and NHL will begin transitioning to broadcasting sports via streaming providers. This (and the major tech issues which surrounded such a large simulcast) will be looked back upon as a major transitional moment. Merits ITN, as the wider notability extends beyond the "publicity stunt" nature of the feature fight itself. Flip^andFlopped ツ 07:14, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

  Thanks for the support. Do you have any propositions on what the blurb could be altered to without being excessive? A lot of events happened in this singular event (Paul v. Tyson, Netflix crashing, Netflix streaming live sports, Taylor v. Serrano) BlondArkhangel (talk) 07:20, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

  My netflix crashed 6 times lol Bloxzge 025 (talk) 13:17, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

  Also, the Rolling Stone article has a paywall, is there any other source or way to access the article besides paying? BlondArkhangel (talk) 07:22, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

  Way too much WP:NOT#CRYSTAL here in trying to justify this as a major event. — Masem (t) 13:20, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

  According to Netflix, 60 million households throughout the world watched the Tyson-Paul fight & 50 million households throughout the world watched the Taylor-Serrano fight Blaylockjam10 (talk) 09:50, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

• Oppose. Joke fight, joke outcome. Nothing of significance to the sport decided here. Hyperbolick (talk) 07:20, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

  120 million people tuned in to this boxing match, how is that not significant? The Taylor-Serrano fight also took place under this fight, I wouldn't say that was a "joke" fight or outcome and it was probably the most entertaining of the matches. BlondArkhangel (talk) 07:31, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

  Why then does the page so woefully lack fight details? Hyperbolick (talk) 08:44, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

  Just as if you do a car race at Taylor Swifts huge concert, it doesn't become official. ExclusiveEditor _{Notify Me!} 15:00, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

• Support altblurb2 Significant event. The 31-year gap makes this even more interesting. Even if it was a publicity stunt, it did its job, that is getting publicity in the form of the 120 million people who watched it live. This fight would be debated over for a long time to come. I also think that the blurb should cover the women's match too, as it was said to be a better fight than the Paul Tyson one. So I have added another altblurb TNM101 (chat) 08:10, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

If we do post this, I oppose blurbs which mention the women's fight. The significance of this event is the main fight which was Paul vs Tyson. There were 6 other fights on the fight card, so it is cherry picking to mention Serrano vs Taylor. Natg 19 (talk) 08:17, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

Serrano vs. Taylor was the co-main event. That doesn’t seem like cherry picking to me. Blaylockjam10 (talk) 09:24, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

• Oppose It is not significant, neither for sport nor for entertainment. Pure spectacle, nothing more. _-_Alsor (talk) 11:17, 16 November 2024 (UTC)
• Comment Please elaborate on what exactly makes this match a "significant event in not only boxing, but sports in general", BlondArkhangel.

31.44.227.152 (talk) 12:18, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

Done. BlondArkhangel (talk) 15:59, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

• Oppose None of these were official title fights. --Masem (t) 13:18, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

  ITN is not limited to title fights if their media attention is exceptional. Floyd Mayweather Jr. vs. Conor McGregor was a boxing match that was featured in in the news and not a title fight, but had widespread publicity. Paul v. Tyson is statistically a more watched event than that and arguably just as popular. BlondArkhangel (talk) 16:18, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

  Comment' correct me if I’m wrong be abuse I’m not into boxing but McGregor v Mayweather was more significant because they are both significant fighters with many titles, not an influencer v an old man 27.96.223.193 (talk) 22:37, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

  Serrano vs. Taylor was a title fight. Blaylockjam10 (talk) 09:25, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

• Oppose per Masem. This is a sideshow, not the top flight of the sport. GenevieveDEon (talk) 13:46, 16 November 2024 (UTC)
• Weak Support the news isn't so much the fight, but the attention and spectacle surrounding it. It's very much ITN, but I'd oppose the current blurbs. I also don't have any suggestions on what it should be, hence weak support. Kcmastrpc (talk) 14:04, 16 November 2024 (UTC)
• Oppose As said by other above, we don't put boxing results in general, but also this was more of an entertainment piece, also this was not official title match, so could be very well rigged for entertainment, it would just serve as unnecessary advertisement for Netflix. ExclusiveEditor _{Notify Me!} 14:57, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

  The purpose of ITN is to reflect events that capture widespread public attention. This event has definitely garnered that title. If anything this would hurt Netflix, the amount of technical difficulties in the streaming of the event could show significance even beyond the fight and in other sports streamed by Netflix. BlondArkhangel (talk) 16:32, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

  The purpose of ITN is to show quality WP articles that happen to be in the news. It is NOT a news ticker. — Masem (t) 16:55, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

• Oppose on significance - not a world-changing sporting event, nor is it ITNR. Maybe if it wasn't the era of the internet, I'd consider supporting for that 100 million figure, but as far as I can tell that isn't much of a record. Strong oppose on quality as the article has next to no details about the fight itself. Departure– (talk) 16:53, 16 November 2024 (UTC)
• Strong Oppose we shouldn’t be giving the Paul brothers any more platforms than they’ve already bought. Also the article is in poor shape. Scuba 19:11, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

You are a hypocrite for injecting your own opinion about these figures while criticizing my recent oppose vote for another nomination. Focus on the article quality, like you told me. Dreameditsbrooklyn (talk) 02:06, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

Taking a page out of your book, oppose votes don't have to be rational, you said so yourself. Scuba 03:47, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

• Oppose It may have significant coverage worldwide, but it doesn't have any lasting impact. It is a publicity stunt for both Jake Paul and Mike Tyson, which isn't usually posted on ITN. INeedSupport ^:3 23:06, 16 November 2024 (UTC)
• Support While I think the event is a farce, in a sport" that shouldn't exist, there is absolutely no doubt that it's in the news. It's on the front page of Australia's ABC News. HiLo48 (talk) 23:24, 16 November 2024 (UTC)
• Support. Mike Tyson returns, after all! BilboBeggins (talk) 23:33, 16 November 2024 (UTC)
• Support In the news, getting lots of attention (much more than UFC 309) and the article seems serviceable. Andrew🐉(talk) 08:39, 17 November 2024 (UTC)
• I oppose blurbing Paul vs. Tyson since that fight doesn’t seem like a significant fight. I theoretically support blurbing Serrano vs. Taylor since that was a widely watched title fight, but I currently oppose such a blurb due to quality issues. At the moment, there isn’t an article that has sufficient details about that fight. Blaylockjam10 (talk) 09:42, 17 November 2024 (UTC)
• Oppose per above, as the main event was not a title bout. Much like Paul's previous matches, this just doesn't seem like it will be a significant, notable event in future years. Happily888 (talk) 10:43, 17 November 2024 (UTC)
• Oppose as it was just a show fight with no competitive significance. It'd have been a different story had Paul become a world champion as a result of his victory.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 11:05, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

Comment: For this type of conflict, it would seem that the death count is entirely too low to be worth mention. :) -- SashiRolls ^{🌿 · 🍥} 13:50, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

• Oppose for the same reason we wouldn't post the Depp v. Heard trial, Kim Kardashian's sextape, or Lady Gaga's perfume brand launch. Given Netflix's reach 120 million isn’t all that much, consirering even taking into account Netflix-only productions, it wouldn't be in the most-watched programmes where there are 17 television shows with over 500 million views in their first 28 days alone and there are furthermore 23 films with over 100 million views in their first 28 days too. Abcmaxx (talk) 14:18, 17 November 2024 (UTC)
  • It did receive 60 m simultaneous viewers, which beat out a record set by the 2023 Cricket World Cup (io terms of streaming services, not broadcast channels) -- however, correctly, simple viewership numbers are not a reason to post. — Masem (t) 14:20, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

    Yes but viewership figures are hard to measure in the first place and furthermore, Netflix gets an increasingly high viewership of anything. I'm sure something like a Taylor Swift concert live-streamed would absolutely break a record but at least that would have some cultural merit as a music event, having a retired boxer turned undefined celebrity and a youtuber with no specific field just feels like a WP:PROMOTION, and I don't think this event will age well or be particularly remembered in a few years time. Abcmaxx (talk) 14:35, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

It's not being especially well-remembered right now. The BBC coverage is fairly harshly critical. GenevieveDEon (talk) 15:41, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

RD: Ella Jenkins

Article: Ella Jenkins (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): NPR
Credits:

• Updated and nominated by ForsythiaJo (talk · give credit)
• Updated by Mohamad Darilin (talk · give credit), Jkaharper (talk · give credit) and Sunshineisles2 (talk · give credit)

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: American "First Lady of Children's Folk Song"; died November 9, media coverage appears to start on November 11. Core article seems well-cited, with citations needed for some awards. ForsythiaJo (talk) 02:08, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

Soft oppose chunks of the article aren’t cited. Scuba 19:18, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

Would anyone else be willing to take a look at the article? Referencing should be further improved at this point. ForsythiaJo (talk) 17:53, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

Support All issues have been fixed. Ready to post. Thriley (talk) 17:31, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

(Posted) RD: Elizabeth Nunez

Article: Elizabeth Nunez (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The New York Times
Credits:

• Nominated by TDKR Chicago 101 (talk · give credit)

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Article updated and well sourced. NYT published obit today while confirming death as 8 November. --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 19:04, 15 November 2024 (UTC)

• Support NYT obit a week after her death. Article in good shape. Grimes2 (talk) 19:45, 15 November 2024 (UTC)

Support article looks in good shape Scuba 19:13, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

• Posted Stephen 01:44, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

(Posted) RD: Eileen Kramer

Article: Eileen Kramer (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): ABC Net
Credits:

• Updated and nominated by TDKR Chicago 101 (talk · give credit)

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Article updated and well sourced --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 08:44, 15 November 2024 (UTC)

• Support Solid article. Grimes2 (talk) 16:23, 15 November 2024 (UTC)
• Support Good article, meets ITN criteria. Happily888 (talk) 02:13, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

  Support solid article. Please post soon. Bedivere (talk) 04:17, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

  not looking for ITN criteria, which this doesn't meet, we're looking for RD criteria. Scuba 22:51, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

  ITN criteria is pretty much WP:ITNCRIT this, which is applicable to blurbs and RD and which it meets. Happily888 (talk) 03:24, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

Support article looks fine. Scuba 22:52, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

• Posted. --PFHLai (talk) 00:49, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

(Posted) RD: Yuriko, Princess Mikasa

Article: Yuriko, Princess Mikasa (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): NHK World
Credits:

• Updated and nominated by TheCorriynial (talk · give credit)
• Updated by Camillz (talk · give credit)

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Some work is needed, but Yuriko, Princess Mikasa was one of the last royals of Japan born and from the Taisho era, married one of Emperor Showa's brothers, and was the oldest living royal in Japan following her husband's death. TheCorriynial (talk) 23:55, 14 November 2024 (UTC)

• Support - Member of a royal family. Harizotoh9 (talk) 01:52, 15 November 2024 (UTC)

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD. Natg 19 (talk) 02:20, 15 November 2024 (UTC)

I've added this to the rule summary at the top of the page. It looks like these are good faith votes from people who are unaware of the above, and it comes up very often in comments, so added it for awareness. Abcmaxx (talk) 09:15, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

• Almost Ready. Shocking news for Japan. However, several sentences are missing the usual. 🛧Midori No Sora♪🛪 ( ☁＝☁＝✈) 02:45, 15 November 2024 (UTC)

I doubt it was that much of a shock. Like Queen Elizabeth she was in advanced old age and her health was known to be in decline. -Ad Orientem (talk) 19:20, 15 November 2024 (UTC)

She was 101, how shocking could it have been? RachelTensions (talk) 08:35, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

Japanese people are feeling bad about this, that's what they seem to mean. ExclusiveEditor _{Notify Me!} 15:08, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

• Oppose Of halting importance globally and not significant to the average reader Dreameditsbrooklyn (talk) 02:47, 15 November 2024 (UTC)

  The average reader does not know who 99.99% of who RDs are. Harizotoh9 (talk) 04:17, 15 November 2024 (UTC)

  Please brush up on WP:ITNRD before adding your vote. Any individual human, animal or other biological organism that has recently died is eligable to be included in RD, as long as their artcles are Not currently nominated for deletion or speedy deletion, Updated, and of sufficient quality. Scuba 05:19, 15 November 2024 (UTC)

  They are also eligible to receive votes in opposition. Dreameditsbrooklyn (talk) 18:15, 15 November 2024 (UTC)

RDs are "eligible" for opposition, but oppose votes should be based on article quality. "Halting importance globally" is not a reason to oppose, as Scu ba has stated. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD. Natg 19 (talk) 18:29, 15 November 2024 (UTC)

They should, but they don't have to. _{Duly signed,} ⛵ WaltClipper -(talk) 18:34, 15 November 2024 (UTC)

yeah, but those votes have to make sense. Scuba 19:46, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

• Comment She was 101. InedibleHulk (talk) 03:08, 15 November 2024 (UTC)

• Soft oppose: the "children" section is largely uncited, but that seems like it would be an easy fix, and the information in it should be public record. Scuba 05:17, 15 November 2024 (UTC)
  • Support problems with the article have been fixed. Scuba 21:22, 15 November 2024 (UTC)
• Comment I've fixed the children section, thanks to NHK last year when she turned 100 listing every child via photo. I've tried to improve tone issues and fixed a ref needed, turned out it was in the same source I used for her children.TheCorriynial (talk) 10:18, 15 November 2024 (UTC)

  I've worked it down to one ref needed, that im not sure how to find a reference for, being a order award that is usually given to women in the royal family and rarely to other foreign female royals. TheCorriynial (talk) 12:52, 15 November 2024 (UTC)

  Looking through wikimedia commons, it appears she received the award in 1941. Obviously commons shouldn't be cited, but its a start. I've tried the best I've can, maybe a Japanese wikipedia user could help?TheCorriynial (talk) 16:58, 15 November 2024 (UTC)

Are there better refs for these awards in Japanese sources? Some of the current refs are blogs. Natg 19 (talk) 18:36, 15 November 2024 (UTC)

• Not Quite Ready but close. -Ad Orientem (talk) 19:20, 15 November 2024 (UTC)

  @Ad Orientem:, please don't do this, and tell us what is not ready so we can fix it even if you said that in general. ExclusiveEditor _{Notify Me!} 15:12, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

  Comment: The article is probably ready by now. TheCorriynial (talk) 17:36, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

• Support The article was heavily edited after her death, and now if well cited and looks promising to make a good RD entry. ExclusiveEditor _{Notify Me!} 08:11, 17 November 2024 (UTC)
• Posted Stephen 02:38, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

November 14

Portal:Current events/2024 November 14

November 14, 2024 (2024-11-14) (Thursday) Armed conflicts and attacks Israel–Hezbollah conflict 2024 Israeli invasion of Lebanon 2024 Beqaa Valley airstrikes Fifteen rescue workers are killed during an Israeli airstrike on the Regional Civil Defense Centre's headquarters in Baalbek, Lebanon. (BBC News) Russian invasion of Ukraine Eastern Ukraine campaign The Russian Defence Ministry claims that Russian forces have captured the village of Voznesenka in Donetsk Oblast, Ukraine. (Anadolu Agency) Odesa strikes, Russian strikes against Ukrainian infrastructure One person is killed and ten others are injured in Russian airstrikes on an apartment building and energy facilities in Odesa, Ukraine. (Reuters) Syrian civil war Israel's role in the Syrian civil war Sixteen people are killed and 15 others are injured in Israeli airstrikes against residential buildings in Damascus, Syria. The Palestinian Islamic Jihad announces that a number of its militants are among the fatalities. (Al Mayadeen) (Al Jazeera) Insurgency in Balochistan In Balochistan, Pakistan, two soldiers and three insurgents are killed during a raid in Harnai District. Separately, two civilians are killed and three injured after an explosion in Ziarat District. (TRT World) Insurgency in Khyber Pakhtunkhwa A Pakistani Taliban commander accidentaly detonates a car bomb at his house in Mir Ali, Khyber Pakhtunkhwa, Pakistan, killing himself and six other people. Fourteen others are also wounded. (AP) Haitian crisis Doctors Without Borders reports that at least two patients are dead after police officers and vigilantes attacked ambulances in Port-au-Prince, Haiti. (Semafor) (CNN) Arts and culture 25th Annual Latin Grammy Awards Dominican singer Juan Luis Guerra is the biggest winner with four awards. (Billboard) It is announced that the Kingda Ka roller coaster, the world's tallest roller coaster, will be retired at the Six Flags Great Adventure amusement park in New Jersey, United States. (KYW-TV) Business and economy The Onion, an American media company known for its satirical news content, acquires InfoWars, with the intent of rebranding the site into a parody of itself. (The New York Times) Disasters and accidents 2024 Pacific typhoon season More than 24,000 people are evacuated as Typhoon Usagi makes landfall in Baggao, Cagayan, Philippines. (DW) Health and environment A study published in the medical journal The Lancet reports that the number of adults who have diabetes globally has increased from 200 million people in 1990 to around 800 million people in 2022. The study also reported that around 40% of adults with diabetes are not receiving treatment for the disease. (DW) (The Guardian) Politics and elections 2024 Sri Lankan parliamentary election Sri Lankans vote in a snap election for the 225 members of the 17th Parliament of Sri Lanka. (Morning Star) (DW) Nauru launches an investment initiative which offers Nauruan citizenship in exchange for investment in climate change mitigation. (RNZ)

---

(Posted) RD: Thomas E. Kurtz

Article: Thomas E. Kurtz (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Bloomberg, NYT
Credits:

• Nominated by Thriley (talk · give credit)
• Updated by Daniel Quinlan (talk · give credit) and Grimes2 (talk · give credit)

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Co-developer of the BASIC programming language. Death reported 14 November. Thriley (talk) 06:31, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

• Oppose: Has a complete uncited section, also needs more sources elsewhere. ExclusiveEditor _{Notify Me!} 08:18, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

   Added Every section is sourced. Support Grimes2 (talk) 17:22, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

• Comment: Article could use some restructuring as multiple statements in the lede are not mentioned elsewhere in the article. Spencer^T•C 19:01, 19 November 2024 (UTC)
• Support. @ExclusiveEditor: @Spencer: I've been working on the article along with several other people. I think it's in pretty good shape now. Daniel Quinlan (talk) 20:44, 20 November 2024 (UTC)
• Posted Stephen 00:17, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

(Posted) 2024 Sri Lankan parliamentary election

Article: 2024 Sri Lankan parliamentary election (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ The National People's Power led by Anura Kumara Dissanayake (pictured) wins the Sri Lankan parliamentary election. (Post)
News source(s): BBC
Credits:

• Nominated by Titanciwiki (talk · give credit)

The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.

Nominator's comments: I think this article needs to have more information on the aftermath but following that it should be good to post Titanciwiki^talk/contrib 03:29, 26 January 2024 (UTC)

Support all the numbers are here, but the aftermath section is short. Scuba 04:57, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

Support Looks fine. ExclusiveEditor _{Notify Me!} 05:27, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

Support Article is of sufficient quality for ITN. --MtPenguinMonster (talk) 09:10, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

Support per nom. -- IDB.S (talk) 15:04, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

• Oppose Rm ready. "Results" section has no prose. Spencer^T•C 23:24, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

   Added ExclusiveEditor _{Notify Me!} 08:39, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

• @Admins willing to post ITN: can this be posted now? Abcmaxx (talk) 14:53, 20 November 2024 (UTC)
• Posted – Schwede66 17:15, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

(Posted) 2024 Israeli invasion of Lebanon

Article: 2024 Israeli invasion of Lebanon (talk · history · tag)
Ongoing item nomination (Post)
Credits:

• Nominated by Vice regent (talk · give credit)

 VR _{(Please ping on reply)} 00:32, 14 November 2024 (UTC)

This is a proposal to replace the ongoing item Israel–Hezbollah conflict (2023–present) with 2024 Israeli invasion of Lebanon. There was consensus at Talk:Israel–Hezbollah_conflict_(2023–present)#Options that the scope of the former article should end at Sep 30, 2024 and events after Oct 1, 2024 should be covered in the latter article. Multiple weeks have passed and no one has objected. I think changing the ongoing will also redirect editors to add updates to the appropriate article.VR _{(Please ping on reply)} 00:32, 14 November 2024 (UTC)

• Support Sounds good to me, this probably should've been done with the invasion started. Scuba 00:35, 14 November 2024 (UTC)
• Support There is consensus, and this will direct editors to the appropriate article. --MtPenguinMonster (talk) 01:32, 14 November 2024 (UTC)
• Support Per @Scu ba Rynoip (talk) 08:00, 14 November 2024 (UTC)
• Support per the talk page consensus. The Israeli invasion article is more current, and should therefore be the one we use on the main page. Kurtis ^(talk) 09:03, 14 November 2024 (UTC)
• Posted, replaced, Stephen 23:11, 14 November 2024 (UTC)

November 13

Portal:Current events/2024 November 13

November 13, 2024 (2024-11-13) (Wednesday) Armed conflicts and attacks Israel–Hezbollah conflict 2024 Israeli invasion of Lebanon Six Israeli soldiers from the Golani Brigade are killed in a three-hour gun battle with Hezbollah militants in southern Lebanon. (Le Monde) Insurgency in Khyber Pakhtunkhwa, Insurgency in Balochistan Twelve Pakistani Taliban gunmen are killed and six wounded in two separated shootouts with soldiers in the districts of Kech and North Waziristan. (AP) Business and economy United Kingdom cost-of-living crisis British DIY retailer Homebase collapses into administration, threatening up to 2,000 jobs. (BBC News) Disasters and accidents 2024 Indo-Pakistani smog New Delhi, India, reports its 15th consecutive day with a "very poor" recorded air quality index due to significant air pollution causing zero meter visibility smog. (The Hindu) 2024 Spanish floods Thousands of Spaniards living near river banks are evacuated following the issuing of AEMET's maximum weather alert in the Province of Málaga, Costa del Sol, and the Valencian Community caused by a new cold drop system. (The Independent) International relations Israel–Turkey relations Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdoğan announces that Turkey has suspended all diplomatic relations with and will not develop any further relations with Israel. However, the Turkish embassy in Tel Aviv, Israel, will continue to operate. Israel's foreign ministry denies any change in its diplomatic relationship with Turkey. (JNS) (Newsweek) (Middle East Eye) Law and crime 2024 Brasília attack Two explosions occurs near the Supreme Federal Court building and the Praça dos Três Poderes in Brasília, Brazil. The perpetrator dies by suicide bombing, being the only fatality. The Federal Police announces an investigation into the explosions, while the Attorney General's Office calls the situation "an attack against the Supreme Federal Court and the Chamber of Deputies". (G1) (CNN) Bulldozer Justice The Supreme Court of India rules that it is unconstitutional for the government to demolish property belonging to people suspected of crimes without a legal process, a practice common in states ruled by the Bharatiya Janata Party. (The Times of India) (DW) International Criminal Court investigation in the Philippines, Philippine drug war The Philippines says it is bound help the International Criminal Court if the international court seek custody of former President Rodrigo Duterte through Interpol over alleged crimes against humanity committed during the Philippine drug war. (AP) Politics and elections 2024 United States presidential election Second presidential transition of Donald Trump Outgoing U.S. President Joe Biden meets with President-elect Donald Trump in the White House and pledges a peaceful transition of power. (Reuters) 2024 Somaliland presidential election Citizens of Somaliland vote for the President between incumbent Muse Bihi Abdi of the Kulmiye party, House of Representatives speaker Abdirahman Mohamed Abdullahi of the Waddani party, and Faysal Ali Warabe of the Justice and Welfare Party. (VOA) (DW) Israel–Hamas war protests Crowds of pro-Palestinian protesters gather in Paris, France, against a gala raising funds for the Israel Defense Forces and included guests such as Israeli finance minister Bezalel Smotrich. (France 24)

---

RD: Theodore Olson

Article: Theodore Olson (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The New York Times
Credits:

• Nominated by ElijahPepe (talk · give credit)

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

 elijahpepe@wikipedia (he/him) 23:23, 13 November 2024 (UTC)

• Not ready, some statements needs citations. 31.44.227.152 (talk) 00:03, 14 November 2024 (UTC)

• Support, given the article has been subsequently edited and inline citations have been added.

JohnAdams1800 (talk) 04:00, 15 November 2024 (UTC)

• Not ready BP needs more inline citations. ExclusiveEditor _{Notify Me!} 08:20, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

(Posted) RD: Roy Haynes

Article: Roy Haynes (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The Guardian
Credits:

• Nominated by 31.44.227.152 (talk · give credit)
• Updated by 37.159.35.155 (talk · give credit), Jkaharper (talk · give credit), TDKR Chicago 101 (talk · give credit) and Martinevans123 (talk · give credit)

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: American jazz drummer. 31.44.227.152 (talk) 14:37, 13 November 2024 (UTC)

• Support Well written, comprehensive and well sourced. Martinevans123 (talk) 14:43, 13 November 2024 (UTC)
• Not ready Support Interesting person, but orange template in the section Discography. Grimes2 (talk) 16:57, 13 November 2024 (UTC)

  The Discography section is probably large enough to be moved to it's own article? Martinevans123 (talk) 18:53, 13 November 2024 (UTC)

  Good idea, found this source for all recordings: https://www.jazzdisco.org/roy-haynes/catalog/ Is it reliable? Grimes2 (talk) 19:09, 13 November 2024 (UTC)

  Have raised at Talk:Roy Haynes. Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 19:35, 13 November 2024 (UTC)

  Roy Haynes discography now created. All remaining entries are sourced. Martinevans123 (talk) 17:13, 14 November 2024 (UTC)

  4 more {cn} tags have now appeared, and look problematic. Martinevans123 (talk) 17:38, 14 November 2024 (UTC)

  Looks like a potential blocker to posting. Unless someone has a better idea...? Martinevans123 (talk) 13:42, 15 November 2024 (UTC)

  We could comment out the 4 cn, DownBeat Readers Poll isn't that important award. Grimes2 (talk) 14:25, 15 November 2024 (UTC)

  Good idea. Now done. Martinevans123 (talk) 19:36, 15 November 2024 (UTC)

  So any more objections? Martinevans123 (talk) 17:03, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

• Support. Removed the last {{better sources needed}} tag. Mach61 18:50, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

  So, any more to be done? Martinevans123 (talk) 14:44, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

• Support article looks ready to be posted. _-_Alsor (talk) 17:09, 17 November 2024 (UTC)
• Posted to RD. Spencer^T•C 22:59, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

(Posted) RD: Daim Zainuddin

Article: Daim Zainuddin (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): ThePrint
Credits:

• Nominated by Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk · give credit)
• Updated by Thegreatrebellion (talk · give credit)

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: . Malaysian politician and former Minister of Finance Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 02:57, 13 November 2024 (UTC)

• Support: Article in sufficient quality. Tofusaurus (talk) 04:15, 13 November 2024 (UTC)

Support Per above. Rynoip (talk) 22:51, 13 November 2024 (UTC)

• Posted to RD. Spencer^T•C 22:53, 14 November 2024 (UTC)

November 12

Portal:Current events/2024 November 12

November 12, 2024 (2024-11-12) (Tuesday) Armed conflicts and attacks Israel–Hamas war Israeli invasion of the Gaza Strip At least 40 people are killed in Israeli airstrikes across the Gaza Strip, including ten in a double tap strike on a designated humanitarian zone in the Al-Mawasi refugee camp in Rafah Governorate. (Al Jazeera) Israel–Hezbollah conflict 2024 Israeli invasion of Lebanon At least 14 people are killed and at least 15 others are injured in an Israeli airstrike on a residential building in Ain Yaaqoub, Akkar Governorate, Northern Lebanon. (Al Jazeera) Ecuadorian security crisis November 2024 Guayaquil prison riot Seventeen people are killed and 15 more injured after a prison riot at the Litoral Penitentiary in Guayaquil, Ecuador. (AP) Haitian crisis The U.S. Federal Aviation Administration issues a temporary 30-day ground on all U.S. airlines from flying to Haiti after gangs shot at a Spirit Airlines aircraft that was attempting to land at Toussaint Louverture International Airport in Port-au-Prince, Haiti, yesterday. The airport is also closed indefinitely in response to the shooting. (Miami Herald) (Scripps News) Red Sea crisis The Pentagon reports that several missiles and drones launched at the USS Spruance and the USS Stockdale by the Houthis are shot down. (BBC) Somali Civil War Al-Shabaab militants ambush and kill two South West State soldiers who were travelling on motorcycles on the highway between Wanlaweyn and Afgooye in Lower Shabelle, Somalia. (Hiiraan Online) Sudanese civil war The United States Department of the Treasury sanctions Rapid Support Forces general Abdel Rahman Jumma, alleging that Jumma is the "primary party" responsible for the violence against civilians and human rights abuses in West Darfur, Sudan. (Al Jazeera) Arts and culture 2024 Booker Prize English novelist Samantha Harvey wins the Booker Prize for her novel Orbital. (BBC News) Spanish writer Álvaro Pombo wins the Miguel de Cervantes Prize. (El País) Disasters and accidents 2024 Indo-Pakistani smog The Pakistani Health Department reports that at least 1.8 million people in Punjab, Pakistan have become sick with respiratory and eye irritation ailments caused by chronic, record-breaking air pollution. (AP) Louisville factory explosion Two people are killed and 12 others are injured in an explosion at a food coloring factory in Louisville, Kentucky, United States. (KCRG-TV) (AP) Twenty-six people are killed when a bus carrying a wedding ceremony participants falls into the Indus River in Gilgit-Baltistan, Pakistan. (Anadolu Agency) (NBC News) Law and crime Abu Ghraib torture and prisoner abuse A U.S. jury awards US$42 million to three former detainees of the Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq, thereby holding Virginia-based military contractor CACI liable for their role in the torture and mistreatment of the detainees. (AP) Anglican Communion sexual abuse cases Justin Welby, the Archbishop of Canterbury and the symbolic head of the Anglican Communion, resigns over his handling of barrister John Smyth's sex abuse scandal. (NPR) (AP) Politics and elections 2024 Mauritian general election Opposition leader and Labour Party candidate Navin Ramgoolam is elected as Prime Minister of Mauritius, with his coalition Alliance du Changement winning 60 of the 66 National Assembly seats. Former Prime Minister Pravind Jugnauth resigns following his party's defeat in the election. (Reuters) (Al Jazeera)

---

(Posted) RD: Timothy West

Article: Timothy West (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): BBC
Credits:

• Nominated by Thryduulf (talk · give credit)
• Updated by Serial Number 54129 (talk · give credit)

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: The prose seems well referenced but the same cannot be said of the filmography etc sections. Thryduulf (talk) 12:46, 13 November 2024 (UTC) Thryduulf (talk) 12:46, 13 November 2024 (UTC)

• Support Updated and well referenced throughout. Chaiten1 (talk) 16:41, 13 November 2024 (UTC)
• Support Hopefully we now have a happy Thryduulf  :) SerialNumber54129 19:59, 13 November 2024 (UTC)

  The couple of sentences starting West was a supporter of the Talyllyn Railway are tagged as needing a citation but at a glance everything else looks good. Thryduulf (talk) 20:59, 13 November 2024 (UTC)

• Not Quite Ready Getting close. Just a couple of CN tags. Very sad news. I remember him from the old BBC production of Edward VII. -Ad Orientem (talk) 21:05, 13 November 2024 (UTC)
• Marked Ready Fixed the last few cites (including the Talyllyn!). Black Kite (talk) 22:23, 13 November 2024 (UTC)
• Posted Stephen 22:36, 13 November 2024 (UTC)

  @Stephen: Fyi, Thryduulf opposed until around 200 citations had been added. I added them; it took about three hours. For the record. SerialNumber54129 23:30, 13 November 2024 (UTC)

  Added and credited, thank you. Stephen 00:25, 14 November 2024 (UTC)

RD: Ken Shorter

Article: Ken Shorter (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): [33]
Credits:

• Nominated by Happily888 (talk · give credit)

Article needs updating
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

 Happily888 (talk) 08:00, 13 November 2024 (UTC)

• Oppose Article needs substantial expansion with only one source in the header and an entirely unsourced filmography. No information whatsoever regarding death other than month. Sampaioe (talk) 15:39, 13 November 2024 (UTC)

(Posted) The Booker Prize

Article: Orbital (novel) (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ The novel Orbital by Samantha Harvey wins the Booker Prize. (Post)
News source(s): The Guardian, New York Times, BBC, Financial Times
Credits:

• Created and nominated by Golan1911 (talk · give credit)
• Updated by Moscow Mule (talk · give credit) and Create a template (talk · give credit)

Article updated
The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.

Nominator's comments: Prestigious literary award Golan1911 (talk) 23:35, 12 November 2024 (UTC)

• Weak support The article is well-sourced and of sufficient quality for ITN, but currently lacks a synopsis. --MtPenguinMonster (talk) 03:39, 13 November 2024 (UTC)
• Weakest oppose The article is just barely sufficient, but given this is an English writer, there has to be interviews with her discussing the work. (eg like [34]) There is definitely room for expansion that would be nice to see before posting. --Masem (t) 03:42, 13 November 2024 (UTC)
• Wait until article is a little more fleshed-out out, but support on principle, per WP:ITN/R. –DMartin 03:44, 13 November 2024 (UTC)
• Oppose neither the novel or event article meet WP:ITNQUALITY currently. Also the WP:ITNR page says that "Booker Prize" is ITNR, so does that not mean that the 2024 Booker Prize article should be the bold link? Joseph2302 (talk) 13:34, 13 November 2024 (UTC)
  • Having separate year articles for the booker prize seems really weird, because there's no major ceremony or anything. Sure, details of the shortlist and the like are important but I don't see why this can't be done on a list page, with any further details (such as "first X to win") being on the book/publication page. I do know in the past we have usually highlighted the book as the target. — Masem (t) 13:39, 13 November 2024 (UTC)
  • Targetting the book article (Orbital) is fine, provided it has been updated with a referenced paragraph about the prize. The award is given to that specific piece of work, it's not part of a broader corpus or lifetime achievement. There's only one winner and not much more could be added to 2024 Booker Prize. What would *not* be OK is using Booker Prize or Samantha Harvey as the bold link. Modest Genius ^talk 14:15, 14 November 2024 (UTC)
    • If we intend to target the book article every year, we should note that at WP:ITNR (as we do for many other ITNR items). Joseph2302 (talk) 15:23, 14 November 2024 (UTC)

  Booker Prize and the novel's articles were recently edited to improve quality Golan1911 (talk) 16:57, 15 November 2024 (UTC)

• Weak support. The article is very light, but does just about meet our minimum requirements. I'd like to see some secondary sources for the plot summary per WP:PLOTCITE, but it's not a disaster without them. Modest Genius ^talk 14:25, 14 November 2024 (UTC)
• Posted Early comments focussed on the poor article and this has since been significantly expanded, thus reaching a consensus to post. Schwede66 20:27, 15 November 2024 (UTC)
• Comment: was this really worth a blurb AND a picture? No one knows what a Booker Prize is, and it almost screams like an advertisement. LilianaUwU ^{(talk / contributions)} 14:19, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

It certainly is not an advertisement. Your ignorance of the Booker Prize does not mean that no-one else knows what it is; and you can find out from our general article Booker Prize. 14:47, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

I feel like this shouldn't be on WP:ITNR in any case. LilianaUwU ^{(talk / contributions)} 15:52, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

It's a prestigious award in English literature. Secretlondon (talk) 16:52, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

One of ITN's purposes is to show "to point readers to subjects they might not have been looking for but nonetheless may interest them". I think that even if you do not know what the book Orbital is or even what the Booker Prize is, it can provoke you to research what it is to see what the buzz is about. Frankly, I had no idea at all what the Booker Prize or the author who wrote Orbital or Orbital itself was, but it led me down a rabbit hole to learn through clicking each hyperlink and reading what Orbital was about and just how impressive the achievement of the Booker Prize is. BlondArkhangel (talk) 19:04, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

Further, this also helps to reduce the systematic bias by featuring a top tier award in the field of literature. We should aim to include such top awards for other creative fields as long as we know the award is documented routinely by the media and considered a top award in said field. Masem (t) 19:50, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

RD: John Horgan

Article: John Horgan (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Global News
Credits:

• Nominated by Mellohi! (talk · give credit)

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Canadian diplomat and politician, Premier of British Columbia from 2017 to 2022, ambassador to Germany from 2023 to 2024. — Ceso femmuin mbolgaig mbung, mellohi! (Goodbye!) 19:55, 12 November 2024 (UTC)

• Soft oppose, several sections not sourced yet. Transformative figure within the context of contemporary BC politics, he will be missed.Ornithoptera (talk) 20:13, 12 November 2024 (UTC)

• Support; article looks well-sourced. -insert valid name here- (talk) 18:25, 14 November 2024 (UTC)
• The "Early life and career" section needs more sources. Schwede66 20:17, 15 November 2024 (UTC)

(Posted) RD: Vardis Vardinogiannis

Article: Vardis Vardinogiannis (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): AP News, ABC News, NYT
Credits:

• Nominated by 240F:7A:6253:1:8587:A6EF:467D:AEA4 (talk · give credit)
• Updated by Borgenland (talk · give credit)

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Greek business magnate. 240F:7A:6253:1:8587:A6EF:467D:AEA4 (talk) 15:39, 12 November 2024 (UTC)

• Almost Ready. Just a single sentence in the personal life section needs a source. 🛧Midori No Sora♪🛪 ( ☁＝☁＝✈) 02:52, 15 November 2024 (UTC)
• Unreferenced date of birth. Schwede66 20:13, 15 November 2024 (UTC)
  • There are now footnotes for the date and place of birth. --PFHLai (talk) 12:13, 16 November 2024 (UTC)
• Posted Stephen 23:25, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

(Posted) Justin Welby resigns

Article: Justin Welby (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ The Archbishop of Canterbury Justin Welby (pictured) resigns after covering up an abuse scandal in the Church of England. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ The Archbishop of Canterbury Justin Welby (pictured) resigns following criticism of his handling of an abuse scandal in the Church of England.
Alternative blurb II: ​ Archbishop of Canterbury Justin Welby (pictured) resigns after covering up the John Smyth abuse scandal.
News source(s): BBC
Credits:

• Nominated by Mjroots (talk · give credit)
• Updated by Baldwin de Toeni (talk · give credit)

Article updated

 Mjroots (talk) 14:24, 12 November 2024 (UTC)

wait? I don't know the terms that may be being used, but I think we could wait until Welby's successor is named to post it. Being the most important ecclesiastical figure (after British monarch) of an important worldwide branch of Christianism, I do consider this change ITN-worthy. _-_Alsor (talk) 14:49, 12 November 2024 (UTC)

We don't need to wait. Welby's resignation is the story. Mjroots (talk) 14:53, 12 November 2024 (UTC)

The reason for the resignation is important. In this case, I prefer to blurb the resignation, not the successor. Grimes2 (talk) 14:59, 12 November 2024 (UTC)

It will take weeks, if not months, to name a successor anyway. Agree that the story is the resignation itself. Baldwin de Toeni (talk) 15:18, 12 November 2024 (UTC)

Please don't associate the Anglican church with the Catholic church. Scuba 15:59, 12 November 2024 (UTC)

an important branch of Catholicism The Church of England is rather famously *not* a branch of Catholicism. AusLondonder (talk) 16:12, 12 November 2024 (UTC)

that's what I'm saying. Scuba 16:25, 12 November 2024 (UTC)

Yeah, I'm replying to Alsoriano97. AusLondonder (talk) 16:27, 12 November 2024 (UTC)

totally right, I was talking about Christianity, not Catholicism. My bad. _-_Alsor (talk) 16:47, 12 November 2024 (UTC)

np, sorry for the confusion. Scuba 16:48, 12 November 2024 (UTC)

• Support blurb Article ok. Grimes2 (talk) 15:02, 12 November 2024 (UTC)

Soft Oppose with only 26 million baptized, and of that only 5.5 million practicing members as of 2010, the Anglican church isn't a major world player in global religions. When the United Methodist Church with it's 5.9 million practicing members repealed bans on LGBTQ clergy and same-sex marriage we didn't include that in ITN, so why would we include the Anglican leadership change? Scuba 16:03, 12 November 2024 (UTC)

Strongly disagree. I think your numbers are for the Church of England specifically. The worldwide Anglican Communion has about 85 million practitioners, making it the third largest Christian denomination (communion) after the Catholic Church and Eastern Orthodoxy. The bishop of Canterbury is the closest thing to its pope or (even closer analogy) ecumenical patriarch. Also, this is a pretty rare change, he's been in the position for over a decade. We posted his appointment in 2012. 98.170.164.88 (talk) 16:23, 12 November 2024 (UTC)

And: The methodists are a separation from the Church of England. Grimes2 (talk) 16:26, 12 November 2024 (UTC)

Lutherans are a separation from the catholic church, but you wouldn't call them catholic. Scuba 16:31, 12 November 2024 (UTC)

I was unaware of his appointment in 2012, I wasn't editing at the time, but rules and norms change, especially in the decade + since then. Again, there are only 26 million baptized Anglicans, but sure, lets consider the Episcopalians whose entire church is a rejection of the CoE and the Archbishop and the Crown, and other groups like them, as Anglican for some reason to boost that up to 86 million.

There are ~1.3 billion Catholics of ~2.4 billion Christians. That means only 3.58% of Christians (and again that's with bloating their numbers considerably) are Anglican. That simply isn't a large enough congregation. We don't post leadership changes for Methodists, Baptists, or other protestant denominations. Why should we with Anglicans?

Also Archbishop of Canterbury isn't even the top of the Anglican church's leadership, the King is. Scuba 16:31, 12 November 2024 (UTC)

We in fact did post the leadership change for the largest branch of Mormonism in 2018, which "only" has 17 million adherents. For comparison, the median population of UN member states is around 9 million.

The British monarch is the head of the CoE, not (the rest of) the Anglican Communion. And the Episcopal Church in the US is definitely not a "rejection" of the CoE and the Archbishop of Canterbury — it's in full communion with the CoE and looks at the Archbishop of Canterbury as a figurehead, like the rest of the Anglican Communion does. Episcopalians do reject the Crown as an authority, but once again that only undermines your argument about the King being at the top of the hierarchy. 98.170.164.88 (talk) 16:40, 12 November 2024 (UTC)

Mormons aren't Christian and haven't been recognized as such by any mainstream christian group.

The Episocpoalins where literally founded as a rejection of the oaths of loyalty to the crown and CoE, their governing body is the General Convention of the Episcopal Church in the United States of America. Scuba 16:47, 12 November 2024 (UTC)

Whether Mormons are considered Christian or not is actually kinda irrelevant to the argument as far as ITN is concerned; they are a broadly comparable religious body and we posted their change in leadership. And as I said, Episcopalians reject the crown, but they have always been inspired by and in communion with the CoE. The Episcopal Church website talks about Justin Welby extensively. 98.170.164.88 (talk) 16:59, 12 November 2024 (UTC)

Oh I agree, the Mormon president changing shouldn't be included in ITN.

Wrapping all vaguely Anglican churches together as being under the direct administration of the CoE is a backhanded way to bloat CoE numbers. Scuba 17:14, 12 November 2024 (UTC)

He was the ceremonial head of the worldwide Anglican Communion. Grimes2 (talk) 17:23, 12 November 2024 (UTC)

The news item is about the Archbishop of Canterbury ultimately. He is relevant to the Anglican Church as well as CoE. So including Anglican membership is relevant. The actual numbers of CoE specifically do not matter. La Ovo (talk) 18:49, 12 November 2024 (UTC)

Anglicans are united under a single Church body, akin to Catholics with the Catholic Church. Baptists, and other Protestant denominations are scattered among a lot of different smaller churches and lack the central cohesion of Anglicans and Catholics. The Anglican Church is after all the national Church of England, for an entire country. Harizotoh9 (talk) 01:45, 15 November 2024 (UTC)

• Support Article looks good. The archbishop of Canterbury is the principal head of the Church of England and the leader of the worldwide Anglican church community. Notable religious figure and the circumstances of his resignation is newsworthy as well. --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 16:11, 12 November 2024 (UTC)

Support Article seems good enough; there are two {{cn}}s but not about any important claims. I agree with others who say that this meets the significance threshold. He was the ceremonial head of the worldwide Anglican Communion. While the Anglican Communion is not as tightly knit in terms of dogma or organization as, say, the Catholic Church, Anglicanism is one of the main traditional branches of Protestantism and the Communion's 85 million adherents are nothing to scoff at. Welby played an important role in trying to keep the Communion from falling apart due to disagreements over LGBT matters and other issues. 98.170.164.88 (talk) 17:33, 12 November 2024 (UTC)

Support Should "abuse scandal" in the hook be piped as abuse scandal so readers will know what's being referred to? Ericoides (talk) 18:36, 12 November 2024 (UTC)

I'm happy to leave that to the posting admin's discretion. We could possibly lose the initial "The" too. Mjroots (talk) 18:44, 12 November 2024 (UTC)

WP:EASTER 🔥Jalapeño🔥 contribs 19:06, 12 November 2024 (UTC)

• Support The resignation of a politically connected head of a major Christian denomination (and the unofficial head of the third-largest Christian tradition) is a big deal, especially considering that it demonstrates a continued role sexual abuse plays in disrupting upper hierarchies across Christian denominations. ~ Pbritti (talk) 18:46, 12 November 2024 (UTC)
• Comment I can't say I know this story inside-out, (or even at all) but covering up sexual abuse is a crime in the UK, so would be something we can't say definitely happened without a confession or conviction. Is this exactly what reliable sources are saying, that he was "covering up an abuse scandal"? Unknown Temptation (talk) 18:52, 12 November 2024 (UTC)

  John Smyth (barrister) is the article with the details. Secretlondon (talk) 19:00, 12 November 2024 (UTC)

• Support His resignation is significant for the reasons outlined above, and is being covered in various media as a major news item. In response to the comment above, "covering up" might not be the best phrase. Maybe something like: The Archbishop of Canterbury Justin Welby (pictured) resigns following criticism of his handling of an abuse scandal in the Church of England. Baldwin de Toeni (talk) 18:59, 12 November 2024 (UTC)

  Yes. Please create an altblurb in the template. Grimes2 (talk) 19:12, 12 November 2024 (UTC)

Done. Baldwin de Toeni (talk) 19:20, 12 November 2024 (UTC)

"Cover up" is explicitly used in the BBC source used in the nom. Mjroots (talk) 19:26, 12 November 2024 (UTC)

• Support alt Significant resignation of a major religious figure in a major religious denomination following a scandal would justify ITN inclusion. Alt blurb is moderately better worded than the original blurb. Article itself looks fine, though the few CN tags should be fixed ASAP. Sampaioe (talk) 19:45, 12 November 2024 (UTC)
• Posted. I've phrased the blurb similar to the current BBC headline, "Archbishop of Canterbury Justin Welby resigns over Church abuse scandal", replacing "over" with "as a result of" because "over" might be misunderstood by non-native speakers as describing a physical position. Sandstein 20:08, 12 November 2024 (UTC)
  • Great, just the paperwork to do now. Mjroots (talk) 06:27, 13 November 2024 (UTC)

• Remove (post-posting objection). I do not believe this should have been posted yet, as coverage from the BBC suggests that Welby has announced his resignation but is still in post: 'It was not immediately clear when the archbishop would leave his post but the process of finding a replacement is likely to take at least six months.' — Preceding unsigned comment added by A.D.Hope (talk • contribs) 09:32, 13 November 2024 (UTC)
• Oppose pull - While Welby remains in office for now, he will not be remaining in office until a successor is appointed. It is customary for there to be a reasonably long vacancy in see in such circumstances. Welby has indicated that he will step down once he has fulfilled a number of outstanding duties, but the announcement itself is the story. (The appointment of his successor will probably hit the headlines, but it's a largely separate process.) GenevieveDEon (talk) 09:35, 13 November 2024 (UTC)

  The blurb should be amended to something like '...has announced his intent to resign', in that case. The blurb as currently written implies he is no longer in office, when as far as I can tell he is still archbishop. A.D.Hope (talk) 09:59, 13 November 2024 (UTC)

• Oppose pull Resignations which are 'effective immediately' are the exception and not the rule. Most high-profile resignations allow for some sort of grace period in order to ensure an orderly transition. If the argument is purely semantic as opposed to notability-related, then go and gather support at WP:Errors for changing "resigns" to "announces his resignation". Flip^andFlopped ツ 15:16, 13 November 2024 (UTC)

  I've been told at 'Errors' to come here to resolve the issue, so which should I do? A.D.Hope (talk) 18:51, 13 November 2024 (UTC)

• If the issue is that he has not officially resigned yet, we can change the blurb to "...announces his resignation". Natg 19 (talk) 17:22, 13 November 2024 (UTC)

  I'm okay with changing the wording to "announces his resignation" if it makes people happier. I don't think it should be pulled. 98.170.164.88 (talk) 21:52, 13 November 2024 (UTC)

• Blurb altered to "announces his resignation". I don't think anything else needs to be done here. Black Kite (talk) 21:55, 13 November 2024 (UTC)

(Posted) 2024 Zhuhai car attack

Article: 2024 Zhuhai car attack (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ A vehicle-ramming attack kills 35 people in Zhuhai, China (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ In Zhuhai, China, 35 people are killed after a vehicle-ramming attack
News source(s): BBC News [35]
Credits:

• Nominated by MAL MALDIVE (talk · give credit)

35 people are a lot. I think the article should be expanded a bit. MAL MALDIVE (talk) 12:18, 12 November 2024 (UTC)

• Oppose Besides the article being far too short to be of quality, this appears to be due to a domestic issue rather than something terrorism-related (the driver was allegedly upset at a divorse ruling that went against him). This is the type of event that is likely not to have long-term enduring coverage and fails NOTNEWS. --Masem (t) 12:57, 12 November 2024 (UTC)

Motivation is not relevant for a mass casualty event. Harizotoh9 (talk) 02:28, 13 November 2024 (UTC)

• Lean support Article needs work, but once it reaches start class I'm in favor of a blurb. This is all over the news, much more so than the relatively unknown regional terrorist attack that is currently at the top of the fold. Domestic mass murders are still notable, especially in a country where fatalities are unlikely to reach more than a dozen. Kcmastrpc (talk) 14:06, 12 November 2024 (UTC)

Wait and support when article is good enough Arguably a more exceptional event than an attack by a longstanding terror group, which we posted (and should have, to be clear). Bremps... 14:22, 12 November 2024 (UTC)

Support I'd argue that this is more significant than an attack by an existing group - those are almost to be expected at this point, and 35 people is an enormous amount for a vehicle attack. Minerman30 (talk) 15:10, 12 November 2024 (UTC)

• Support on significance if article is not a stub. An unusual event attracting international coverage. Very high number of casualties for an incident of this type. AusLondonder (talk) 16:14, 12 November 2024 (UTC)
• Support in principle oppose on quality Dora the Axe-plorer (explore) 16:35, 12 November 2024 (UTC)
• Support Topic is a mass casualty event in China. The article is a bit a awkward, and I've re-written some of it. Harizotoh9 (talk) 02:28, 13 November 2024 (UTC)

Oppose unless motive is revealed to be terrorism or similar. Tragic, but ultimately unlikely to have any far-reaching consequences. –DMartin 03:46, 13 November 2024 (UTC)

Motive does not matter when it comes to mass casualty events. Even then, the motive could fall similar to it. 35 people died from one person ramming them over, that's a pretty large consequence from one person. BlondArkhangel (talk) 04:54, 13 November 2024 (UTC)

Motive is very important, as there's a significant difference between a terrorism-related attack and something that is related to domestic violence. The latter is not likely going to have the long-tail of enduring coverage since there's little else to be said about it, whereas a terrorism-related attack will have a significant followup of seeking out the agency that carried it out and any possible enforcement actions. This is why we have NOTNEWS, not every story, even carried by many internaional papers, is necessarily a good encyclopedic topic. — Masem (t) 05:02, 13 November 2024 (UTC)

So if someone blew up a building killing thousands because his wife left him, you'd count that as domestic violence and not a major event? It's the single biggest mass casualty event in China since 2014. Harizotoh9 (talk) 05:29, 13 November 2024 (UTC)

To add onto this, a reason why the article may not get significant enough coverage is because of the vast censorship by Chinese authorities. I think this article could spark enduring coverage about China's security and mental health of their people as well as the definite censorship that can be observed by people outside of China. BlondArkhangel (talk) 05:35, 13 November 2024 (UTC)

Motivation is important it will likely determine whether enduring coverage of the event will be there or not, which is the notability standard for news event articles. A terrorism event will draw far more govt response to prevent it, which establishes that tail of coverage, whereas something done by an upset person on a whim is unlikely going to move many needles. That may change in the future in this case but right now the question of the event's notability is in question since it's still working only off primary news source coverage — Masem (t) 20:22, 13 November 2024 (UTC)

• Strong Support Major event and shocking. High casualty amount. After a bit more work the article would be ready. Elios Peredhel (talk) 11:38, 13 November 2024 (UTC)
• Strong Support and want to note for the record, in case it is relevant for further nominations, that if a mentally ill person killed 35 people with their car in downtown New York City, we absolutely would not be seeing an opposition faction form because the issue is "too domestic". "Too domestic" strikes me as another way of saying "this is Chinese news, so it's not important enough for ITN". There is no basis in logic or ITN policy for that proposition. This needs to make the main page. Flip^andFlopped ツ 15:22, 13 November 2024 (UTC)

Support. I think general consensus is that this article ought to be posted ASAP. Those who didn't support the article originally were mostly because of the of substance in the article. However, there is significantly more information and the general opinion seems to be posting it.

If someone could do the steps in putting this article ITN that would be amazing BlondArkhangel (talk) 05:26, 14 November 2024 (UTC)

Note that the main reason for opposition was the quality of the article, but it has been heavily re-written and expanded since then. Harizotoh9 (talk) 20:16, 13 November 2024 (UTC)

The expansion is in fluff, like media mentions and non-action reaction statements. This is a major problem of how news event articles are written today. It's great for Wikinews but not Wikipedia. — Masem (t) 20:23, 13 November 2024 (UTC)

If you have suggestions on how to improve the article then go to the talk page and make said suggestions. I myself try to trim "Reaction" sections, and merge them into other sections such as "Aftermath" or in the event itself. Harizotoh9 (talk) 21:18, 13 November 2024 (UTC)

My suggestion would be to move it to Wikinews and only move it back if it is an event that shows enduring coverage. (this is also true for a good percentage of new news events articles, as editors are failing to follow NOTNEWS and NEVENT) Masem (t) 21:42, 13 November 2024 (UTC)

The purpose of ITN is:

1. To help readers find and quickly access content they are likely to be searching for because an item is in the news.
2. To showcase quality Wikipedia content on current events.
3. To point readers to subjects they might not have been looking for but nonetheless may interest them.
4. To emphasize Wikipedia as a dynamic resource.

This is likely being searched by people who have heard of the event as it has been broadcasted on multiple news outlets. Your suggestion on improvement is due to the lack of time passed that proves it has enduring coverage so I'd say the article itself is of decent quality. Some people could also be unaware of the incident and may find that 35 people being killed from apparent road rage would be a cruel, but interesting article to read about. BlondArkhangel (talk) 23:03, 13 November 2024 (UTC)

But WP is not a newspaper. Just because an event happens doesn't mean WP should cover it, as events that only get a burst of news coverage are not considered notable per WP:N and WP:NEVENT. Readers coming to WP to try to catch up on news from an encyclopedia are absolutely at the wrong place. Masem (t) 05:26, 14 November 2024 (UTC)

I think ITN is about exposing our readers to high quality information on international topics, a bit like you might hear in the headlines on BBC World Service. Secretlondon (talk) 15:29, 14 November 2024 (UTC)

• Strong Support major event. Mass casualties. Article of decent quality. Definitely fit for ITN. Zinderboff(talk) 05:07, 14 November 2024 (UTC)
• Support It’s a significant event (& the Chinese censorship makes it seem more notable) & the article’s quality is good enough. Blaylockjam10 (talk) 10:51, 14 November 2024 (UTC)
• Posted as there is clear consensus for doing so. Schwede66 18:33, 14 November 2024 (UTC)
• Post-posting support Terrorism or not, this is significant. Should be good to go, thus. –Angga (formerly Angga1061) 20:02, 14 November 2024 (UTC)

RD: Song Jae-rim

Article: Song Jae-rim (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Times of India, Soompi
Credits:

• Nominated by Royiswariii (talk · give credit)

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

 Royiswariii Talk! 11:37, 12 November 2024 (UTC)

• Oppose Needs a lot of expansion and has quite a few unsourced roles. Estreyeria (talk) 14:33, 13 November 2024 (UTC)
• Most of the English language sources are going to be limited as they're obituaries that give summaries of his life, rather than details on his career. I expanded a bit with the CNN and Korea Times articles. Harizotoh9 (talk) 00:02, 14 November 2024 (UTC)

  You can use reliable sources from any language on English Wikipedia. There are webpage translators available there on google. ExclusiveEditor _{Notify Me!} 08:23, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

• At just over 1300 bytes of prose, that article is arguably still a stub. Schwede66 20:10, 15 November 2024 (UTC)

November 11

Portal:Current events/2024 November 11

November 11, 2024 (2024-11-11) (Monday) Armed conflicts and attacks Israel–Hamas war Israeli invasion of the Gaza Strip At least 30 people are killed in Israeli strikes across the Gaza Strip, including at least 20 in the Nuseirat refugee camp. (Al Jazeera) Israel–Hezbollah conflict 2024 Israeli invasion of Lebanon At least 44 people are killed and 88 more injured during Israeli airstrikes across Lebanon. (Al Jazeera) Russian invasion of Ukraine Mykolaiv strikes, Zaporizhzhia strikes Five people are killed and 18 others, including five children, are injured in Russian air strikes on Mykolaiv and Zaporizhzhia, Ukraine. (DW) (Arab News) Disasters and accidents 2024 European floods 2024 Spanish floods Prime Minister of Spain Pedro Sánchez announces an additional €3.76 billion (US$4 billion) aid package to the Valencian Community which was affected by deadly floods in October. (DW) A mud volcano erupts in Turbo, Colombia, forcing the preventative evacuation of 109 households. (El Espectador) International relations 2024 United Nations Climate Change Conference The COP29 climate conference opens in Baku, Azerbaijan. (Reuters) Law and crime 2024 Zhuhai car attack Thirty-five people are killed and 43 more injured during a vehicle-ramming attack outside a stadium in Zhuhai, Guangdong, China. The perpetrator is in a coma after suffering serious injuries. (BBC News) Haitian crisis Several airlines suspend flights to Haiti after a flight attendant was injured when a Spirit Airlines aircraft was hit by gunfire while attempting to land at Toussaint Louverture International Airport in Port-au-Prince, Haiti, and was diverted to Santiago de los Caballeros, Dominican Republic. (BBC News) The International Criminal Court announces an investigation into prosecutor Karim Ahmad Khan over accusations of sexual misconduct previously reported by The Guardian in October. (BBC News) (The Guardian) In Italy, the Carabinieri Art Squad seizes more than 2,100 forged artworks worth more than €200 million (US$215 million) that were intended to be sold at auction houses across Europe and also uncovers two art forgery workshops in Tuscany and Venice. (DW) One of the friars who was assaulted in a monastery in Gilet, Province of Valencia, Spain two days prior, dies after failing to recover from serious injuries. (RTVE) Politics and elections 2024 Japanese general election Shigeru Ishiba is sworn in as the 103rd prime minister of Japan following the first runoff vote in thirty years. (Kyodo News) (Mainichi) Haitian crisis Alix Didier Fils-Aimé is appointed as the new Prime Minister of Haiti, replacing Garry Conille, amid worsening security in the country. (Reuters) Māori protest movement Hundreds of Māori people begin a nine-day march from Cape Reinga to Wellington, the capital city of New Zealand, to protest the proposed Treaty Principles Bill which would redefine the principles of the Treaty of Waitangi. (The Star) (The Guardian)

---

(Posted) RD: Frank Auerbach

Article: Frank Auerbach (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The Guardian
Credits:

• Nominated by Ham II (talk · give credit)
• Updated by TDKR Chicago 101 (talk · give credit)

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: German-born British painter. Ham II (talk) 16:48, 13 November 2024 (UTC)

• Support Removed orange template, ISBNs added. No cn left. Grimes2 (talk) 13:52, 14 November 2024 (UTC)
• Support Looks good. Martinevans123 (talk) 14:21, 14 November 2024 (UTC)
• Support Good work on page in last few days. Ceoil (talk) 14:36, 15 November 2024 (UTC)
• Unreferenced date of birth. Schwede66 20:07, 15 November 2024 (UTC)

   Added Grimes2 (talk) 20:13, 15 November 2024 (UTC)

Support. BilboBeggins (talk) 23:35, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

• Posted Stephen 23:13, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

RD: John Robinson

Article: John Robinson (American football coach) (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): ESPN
Credits:

• Nominated by Fakescientist8000 (talk · give credit)

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: American football coach, 2nd most wins in Los Angeles Rams history. Cheers, atque supra! Fakescientist8000 00:53, 12 November 2024 (UTC)

• Needs a lot of sourcing work, especially for the Coaching career section. Natg 19 (talk) 01:45, 12 November 2024 (UTC)
• Oppose orange-tagged and rightly so as the article is woefully lacking in citations. Abcmaxx (talk) 10:11, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

November 10

Portal:Current events/2024 November 10

November 10, 2024 (2024-11-10) (Sunday) Armed conflicts and attacks Russian invasion of Ukraine Attacks in Russia during the Russian invasion of Ukraine November 2024 Moscow drone attack One person is injured and at least 36 flights are diverted when 34 Ukrainian drones strike Moscow, Russia. (CBC News) Israel–Hamas war Israeli invasion of the Gaza Strip At least 40 people are killed in Israeli airstrikes across the Gaza Strip, including at least 24 in the Jabalia refugee camp in North Gaza Governorate. The IDF claims they killed a top Palestinian Islamic Jihad commander in the strikes. (Reuters) (The Times of Israel) (The Washington Post) An Israeli airstrike on a house in Gaza City kills Wael al-Khour, a minister in the Hamas-run government, along with his wife and their three children. (NBC News) Three-phase Israel–Hamas war ceasefire proposal Qatar withdraws from ceasefire talks between Hamas and Israel as mediator due to "a refusal to negotiate a deal in good faith" from Hamas and Israel. (CNN) (AP) (The Guardian) Israel–Hezbollah conflict 2024 Israeli invasion of Lebanon An Israeli airstrike in the village of Aalmat, Byblos District, Lebanon, kills at least 23 people, including seven children, and injures six others. (AP) Mexican drug war Ten people are killed and seven others are injured in a mass shooting at a bar in Querétaro, Mexico. (CBS News) Sistan and Baluchestan insurgency Five Basij officers are killed after a shooting by suspected Jaish ul-Adl gunmen in Saravan, Sistan and Baluchestan province, Iran. (AP) Disasters and accidents A Mww 6.8 earthquake strikes off the coast of Bartolomé Masó, Cuba, causing landslides and damage to buildings in the region. (CNN) Law and crime Israel–Hamas war protests November 2024 Amsterdam attacks More than 300 pro-Palestinian protesters are forcibly removed and 50 others are detained by Dutch police for participating in a rally in Amsterdam, Netherlands, in violation of a ban on demonstrations that was implemented following the attacks on Maccabi Tel Aviv fans on Friday. (Reuters) Tuskegee University shooting One person is killed and 16 others are injured in a school shooting during a homecoming weekend party at Tuskegee University in Tuskegee, Alabama, United States. (NBC News) Politics and elections 2024 Mauritian general election Citizens of Mauritius vote for the 66 seats of the National Assembly. (Reuters) Constitutional crisis in Somalia Ahmed Madobe, the President of the state of Jubaland, Somalia, appoints a regional electoral committee, with Somalia's Interior Ministry calling the committee unauthorized and urging clans to fight for their rights. Jubaland subsequently suspends relations with the federal government. (Garowe Online) (Hiiraan Online) Members of the Jamaat-e-Islami party announce that they have prevented former Bangladesh Prime Minister Sheikh Hasina and the Awami League party from holding a rally in Dhaka, Bangladesh, to commemorate Noor Hossain Day. (AP) Sports 2024 NASCAR Cup Series In auto racing, Joey Logano of Team Penske wins his third NASCAR Cup Series championship. (ESPN)

---

(Posted) RD: Barbara Aland

Article: Barbara Aland (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): FAZ (in German)
Credits:

• Updated and nominated by Gerda Arendt (talk · give credit)

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Internationally influential Protestant theologian who worked with her husband on critical editions of the Greek New Testament. There were no sources for the short bio when she died, but are there now. Still limited sourcing for the publications, but that should not be hard. I need to travel for a while. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 10:41, 13 November 2024 (UTC)

• Support Added ISBNs and OCLCs to the work section. Article should pass RD requirements. Grimes2 (talk) 15:32, 13 November 2024 (UTC)
• Posted. Black Kite (talk) 22:08, 13 November 2024 (UTC)

Prime Minister of Haiti

Article: Alix Didier Fils-Aimé (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ The Transitional Presidential Council appoints Alix Didier Fils-Aimé (pictured) as the acting Prime Minister of Haiti after dismissing Garry Conille. (Post)
News source(s): Al Jazeera
Credits:

• Nominated by Bremps (talk · give credit)
• Created by Patar knight (talk · give credit)
• Updated by Davemck (talk · give credit), Clime047 (talk · give credit) and Patar knight (talk · give credit)

Article needs updating

Nominator's comments: Articles are a bit stubby Bremps... 23:29, 11 November 2024 (UTC)

• Oppose on quality of the article. Also, I don't think we should post a acting prime minister, if it was an official prime minister elected I think we should post. MAL MALDIVE (talk) 15:41, 12 November 2024 (UTC)
• Oppose Just another event in Haiti's turbulent political life — Preceding unsigned comment added by Varoon2542 (talk • contribs) 15:49, 12 November 2024 (UTC)

soft oppose this is the 4th acting prime minister since Haiti collapsed. Maybe we should start omitting them, but there is an argument to make per ITN/R since this is a head of government. Scuba 17:51, 12 November 2024 (UTC)

• Oppose Emphasis on the word acting. 64.114 etc 22:45, 12 November 2024 (UTC)
• We don't post stubs. Schwede66 20:06, 15 November 2024 (UTC)

Support in principle. BilboBeggins (talk) 23:36, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

(Posted) 2024 Mauritian general election

Article: 2024 Mauritian general election (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ The Labour Party wins the 2024 Mauritian general election with their leader Navin Ramgoolam (pictured) to be named Prime Minister (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ Alliance du Changement, led by Navin Ramgoolam (pictured), wins the Mauritian general election
Alternative blurb II: ​ The opposition, lead by Navinchandra Ramgoolam (pictured), wins a landslide victory in the 2024 Mauritian general election
News source(s): Al Jazeera
Credits:

• Nominated by Scu ba (talk · give credit)
• Created by Sundostund (talk · give credit)
• Updated by N Panama 84534 (talk · give credit), Fajarpa7 (talk · give credit) and Jedi Master Wysk (talk · give credit)

Article needs updating
The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.

Nominator's comments: Article needs to be updated, the results have yet to be added, but this is ITN/R when it's ready Scuba 15:01, 11 November 2024 (UTC)

Support Enough returns are in that the loser conceded. Article seems fine. Bremps... 23:32, 11 November 2024 (UTC)

Hold until we have some sense of the vote totals. At that point, procedural support as ITN/R This post was made by orbitalbuzzsaw gang (talk) 04:24, 12 November 2024 (UTC)

Ready but still not posted ? Shouldn't get staled Varoon2542 (talk) 19:50, 13 November 2024 (UTC)

Support: National election and the article is in good enough shape. Prodrummer619 (talk) 15:30, 12 November 2024 (UTC)

Support : Various reputable sources, national and international, relevant for the historically only stable democracy of Africa — Preceding unsigned comment added by Varoon2542 (talk • contribs) 15:41, 12 November 2024 (UTC)

• Support As per above! Sharrdx (talk) 18:43, 12 November 2024 (UTC)

Support per above, wonderful work by the editors in their thorough coverage of a lesser-known but nonetheless important election. Ornithoptera (talk) 20:04, 12 November 2024 (UTC)

Mauritian General Elections always receive international attention in both French and English language media who always remind that it is Africa's only stable democracy Varoon2542 (talk) 16:46, 13 November 2024 (UTC)

Support Article updated, results are in, and additionally notable for yet another incumbent getting tossed out. Melmann 22:09, 12 November 2024 (UTC)

• @Admins willing to post ITN: Natg 19 (talk) 00:36, 14 November 2024 (UTC)
• Posted Stephen 01:30, 14 November 2024 (UTC)

(Posted) RD: Bruce Degen

Template:ITN candidate

• Oppose - missing citations under "Selected Works" and for other statements throughout, and needs copyediting throughout. Staraction (talk | contribs) 01:57, 11 November 2024 (UTC)

  I've made some edits to the article, is it good enough to be posted now? toweli (talk) 17:29, 12 November 2024 (UTC)

Support. The article is now fully sourced. toweli (talk) 17:28, 12 November 2024 (UTC)

• Posted to RD. Spencer^T•C 23:01, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

November 9

Template:Cot Portal:Current events/2024 November 9 Template:Cob

---

RD: Bobby Allison

Template:ITN candidate

Oppose Tone problem and some sections are uncited. Rynoip (talk) 19:44, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

• Oppose more sourcing needed, and is way too slanted to negative aspects ("Cale Yarborough fight" has 5 paragraphs which is WP:UNDUE compared to the rest of his career, and "Career wins controversy" violate WP:Controversy sections). Joseph2302 (talk) 16:58, 11 November 2024 (UTC)

RD: Delhi Ganesh

Template:ITN candidate

• Oppose filmography and television sections are unsourced. Joseph2302 (talk) 11:43, 11 November 2024 (UTC)

(Posted) RD: Judith Jamison

Template:ITN candidate

• Support RD, oppose blurb The article is well sourced and of high quality, but she simply isn't notable enough for a blurb. Anopisthograph (talk) 03:34, 10 November 2024 (UTC)
• Support. 5th level vital article. Updated and well-referenced. gobonobo ^{+ c} 05:41, 10 November 2024 (UTC)
• Support Nothing to complain. Grimes2 (talk) 05:58, 10 November 2024 (UTC)
• Posted to RD. Spencer^T•C 06:42, 11 November 2024 (UTC)

(Posted) Quetta bombing

Template:ITN candidate

• Support Notable, long enough, and seems to be well-sourced. Anopisthograph (talk) 02:08, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

Support: Major fatal terror attack at one of the largest, busiest and most important train stations in the province of Balochistan. Bloxzge 025 ツ Template:Flagicon (talk) 02:59, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

Support, major notable event. BilboBeggins (talk) 14:23, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

Oppose Inconsequential ITN nomination, this doesn't appear to be a major headline on BBC, AP, CNN, etc. Additionally, it's unclear on how this will have any significant impact with the security theatre in this region of Pakistan. It's my understanding is that this group has been terrorizing this region for quite some time. Kcmastrpc (talk) 17:32, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

The bombing impact was that it significantly increased security measures across Quetta and suspended train operations Bloxzge 025 (talk) 18:05, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

These are short term impacts. Ideally we're looking for long-term impacts, and this doesn't seem to have moved the needle on the state of terrorism in the region. Masem (t) 18:07, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

Support Major terrorist attack, significant casualty numbers. Rynoip (talk) 19:51, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

• Support Major attack, massive casualties. Made headlines in The Guardian, so some foreign sources clearly found it important. QuicoleJR (talk) 20:41, 10 November 2024 (UTC)
• Support It's in the news, a substantial attack with not insignificant casualties. Article is reasonable quality. AusLondonder (talk) 20:56, 10 November 2024 (UTC)
• Posted Stephen 00:42, 11 November 2024 (UTC)

(Posted RD) RD/blurb: Ram Narayan

Template:ITN candidate

• Comment. There is a photo here. Are we going with blurb? BilboBeggins (talk) 09:50, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

  I tried to add something blurb-wise Hekerui (talk) 11:56, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

• Oppose blurb RD only, Not on par with head of state in terms of notability or otherwise globally known household name to warrant a blurb.31.44.227.152 (talk) 12:53, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

Support RD since its a featured article. Prodrummer619 (talk) 13:44, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

• Support Ravi Shankar was blurbed and this chap seems similar. And it’s an FA. Andrew🐉(talk) 14:28, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

  Can you seriously not take decisions from more than ten years ago as a reference? A lot has changed in ITN since then. _-_Alsor (talk) 19:05, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

  Shankar was far more famous and influential worldwide than Narayan. Black Kite (talk) 19:52, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

  plus ça change... Andrew🐉(talk) 20:52, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

• Support blurb Article is of high quality, and gives a reasonable good reason why he was considered a great figure in their field. Masem (t) 15:51, 9 November 2024 (UTC)
• Support RD Agree that the article is high quality, but I think he is not notable enough for a blurb, compared to Ravi Shankar. Grimes2 (talk) 16:07, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

Support RD, oppose blurb article is of high quality. Scuba 19:48, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

• Oppose blurb death not notable as event This post was made by orbitalbuzzsaw gang (talk) 23:17, 9 November 2024 (UTC)
• Support RD, oppose blurb As a featured article, this is clearly of high enough quality for RD, but he's just not notable enough for a blurb. Anopisthograph (talk) 02:00, 10 November 2024 (UTC)
• Posted to RD. Spencer^T•C 06:23, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

Support blurb Seems transformative figure to me. Also, 77 Wikipedia articles is impressive. BilboBeggins (talk) 13:28, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

Oppose blurb being transformational is not sufficient to rise to a death blurb. it's unclear what his impact or legacy will be nor is his death being covered all that much internationally. Kcmastrpc (talk) 18:21, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

• Support blurb - The Japanese basketball (or was it baseball?) blurb is 9 days old (and counting). If there isn't other thing to blurb, why not this? 51.154.145.205 (talk) 11:30, 12 November 2024 (UTC)

  The Moldovan election news is 10 days old... 51.154.145.205 (talk) 11:39, 13 November 2024 (UTC)

• Support blurb – Top of his field. ArionStar (talk) 18:31, 12 November 2024 (UTC)

November 8

Template:Cot Portal:Current events/2024 November 8 Template:Cob

---

(Posted) RD: Dorothy Allison

Template:ITN candidate

• Support Seems to be well sourced. Grimes2 (talk) 11:39, 12 November 2024 (UTC)
• Posted – Schwede66 19:55, 15 November 2024 (UTC)

(Posted) RD: Trevor Sorbie

Template:ITN candidate

• Support Article seems well-cited. It's not red-tagged or orange-tagged. Anopisthograph (talk) 02:08, 9 November 2024 (UTC)
• Posted – Schwede66 19:55, 15 November 2024 (UTC)

(stale) RD: Alan Rachins

Template:Archive top Template:ITN candidate

• Weak oppose Article is generally well-cited, with the notable exception of the filmography section at the end. All of it is pretty easily verifiable from google searching. However, in many cases even the target articles do not have a proper citation or even a mention re: Rachins appearance. Flip^andFlopped ツ 19:21, 8 November 2024 (UTC)
• Oppose and suggest close STALE. Death was reported on 11/2 (over a week ago). Latest nominations right now are dated for 11/4. Suggesting close since this is stale. --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 14:52, 11 November 2024 (UTC)

Template:Ab

(Posted) RD: June Spencer

Template:ITN candidate

• Support She was playing Peggy Woolley on The Archers before I was born and before the late Queen came to the throne. And she was still playing the part at the age of 103. Just posting her name is quite inadequate to convey the nature of her legendary feat. Just why is it so hard to post a few words or a picture to explain this to our readers? Andrew🐉(talk) 18:01, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

  I'm not sure many outside the UK will know who The Archers were, and even then it only applies to those who listen to Radio 4 or grew up with it. I think you could make a case of reforming RD altogether, but this would merit a much wider discussion. Abcmaxx (talk) 18:56, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

Support Article looks good. Anopisthograph (talk) 23:18, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

• Posted Stephen 22:53, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

(Closed) Amsterdam attack

Template:Close top Template:ArbCom Arab-Israeli enforcement Template:ITN candidate

Note: I've added another blurb related to the topic; given that Jewish pogrom in Amsterdam was created six minutes before November 2024 Amsterdam attacks makes me rethink twice and do two nominations (articles will me merged) in the hope that one of them gets promoted. ToadetteEdit (talk) 07:26, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

• Comment - I have not seen any RS using the term 'pogrom'. GenevieveDEon (talk) 09:51, 8 November 2024 (UTC)
• Comment I have removed comments violating WP:ARBPIA and added warning for that area to this nomination. Joseph2302 (talk) 11:12, 8 November 2024 (UTC)
• Support notability but strong oppose blurb and altblurb1 firstly this is Europe, so why use the term soccer, secondly we are an encyclopedia we should be specific, and thirdly, these aren't random Israelis being attacked they are Maccabi fans who are politically right-wing and one the most supported clubs in Israel, which brings a whole new dimension. Also Ajax's fanbase whom they played against also is somewhat known to have pro-Israeli sympathies, so I added altblurb2 which omits Ajax from the blurb as there is no indication their fans were involved. Abcmaxx (talk) 12:26, 8 November 2024 (UTC)
• Oppose, barring any significant deaths, this is part of what's in the ongoing topics related to the Israeli conflicts. --Masem (t) 12:44, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

  We don't need deaths to make an event significant. Also this happened far away from the Middle East. Abcmaxx (talk) 13:11, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

  Wait @Masem I tend to agree with Abc here, WP:MINIMUMDEATHS seems like a relevant essay. However, I'm leaning towards oppose at the moment because it's still unclear if this is going to have any long-term ramifications. For example, if Israel decides to incur on Dutch sovereign soil with her military forces as a result, this would certainly seem blurb worthy. Kcmastrpc (talk) 13:15, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

  Template:Small _{Duly signed,} ⛵ WaltClipper -(talk) 14:11, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

  Yes, but at the same time, we have, within the ongoing, at least three articles covering worldwide rise of violence and other actions against Jews, Palestinians, and Muslims (Antisemitism during the Israel–Hamas war, Islamophobia during the Israel–Hamas war, and Anti-Palestinianism during the Israel–Hamas war). This is not an isolated case, and seems more comparable to the protests on American colleges (which we didn't post). As Kcmastrpc, if this escalates to be more an international incident, that would be different, but right now, it appears that the immediate situation resolved. --Masem (t) 13:25, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

  I think the scale and level of violence and reaction is much larger than usual though, especially given this was a relatively high-profile football match too Abcmaxx (talk) 18:50, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

• Oppose Doesn't seem important enough for ITN at the moment; also, it doesn't appear to have been all one-way [36]. Black Kite (talk) 13:26, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

Disagree here, it has had official responses from various politicians, so it has caused a diplomatic incident. Such events are rarely one-sided given an organised and politicised group of football fans were involved. Also the pogrom redirect looks to be heavily WP:LOADED and WP:POV I think this should be deleted. I have added altblurb3in order to give a neutral balance. Abcmaxx (talk) 14:27, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

Everything gets political responses nowadays, the way we write event articles, which is a problem. Reactions really should be focused on actual involvement and steps, and not just stern words or statements of thoughts and prayers, but event articles tend to attract and grow those like kudzu. There's a lot of weight in claiming these reactions are significant that is in the CRYSTAL territory as well. — Masem (t) 14:58, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

Yes but this is making global headlines; I'm not sure what other involvement you can reasonably expect other than mass arrests and government intervention to bring their citizens home, which is what happened here. Abcmaxx (talk) 18:47, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

Tons of events get global headlines, but WP is not a newspaper and ITN is not a newsticker. And if that's the extent the actions that result from this event, that's also pushing it towards being a footnote within the larger context of the Israeli conflicts. — Masem (t) 19:50, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

Right but you can't set such a high threshold that only elections and tragic events with x amount deaths get posted, we are already getting to a point where it's becoming near impossible to post anything else. Abcmaxx (talk) 11:10, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

• Oppose given the earlier disruptions by Israeli fans attacking people in Amsterdam aren’t mentioned idk how anybody could think this is a NPOV. Also oppose on notability. nableezy - 15:10, 8 November 2024 (UTC)
• Support on notability, oppose alt blurbs 1-3 on NPOV concerns The level of coverage this is receiving puts this on a similar notability footing to the US College Protests, but Europe's version. I supported posting the protests and support this too. However, I am sympathetic to the NPOV concerns. Looking objectively at the reporting, there is evidence that at least some Maccabi fans were targeting or vandalizing houses and businesses with the Palestinian flag and that Arabs in the area (including a taxi driver) were assaulted prior to the game starting. Omitting this from alt blurbs 1-2 is a NPOV concern. On the other hand, there is obvious video footage that later in the night (after the game had ended), coordinated violence on a much larger scale was directed at the Maccabi fans leaving the stadium; alt blurb 3 leaves the reader with the oversimplified impression that the Maccabi fans "clashed" (i.e. caused violence) with locals. The net result of this is that I support alt blurb 4 (which I have added). Flip^andFlopped ツ 19:12, 8 November 2024 (UTC)
• Oppose clashes between opposing football fans in Europe is very commonplace. This is just given more attention due to the current Middle East situation. No deaths, or major number of injuries. If posted, alt3 is the most neutral blurb to use. To me, "clashes" implies violence / fighting on both sides with no indication of who started in. Natg 19 (talk) 19:18, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

  Who is opposing Maccabi here? This isn't football-based violence, it's ethno-political Abcmaxx (talk) 00:02, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

• Support altblurbs 3 and 4; oppose the others. What makes this particular Hooliganism noteworthy is that it's explicitly ethnic violence: Israeli fans engaging in anti-Arab demonstrations in the Netherlands of all places, and residents responding with violence. Also, a lot more than 10 were injured, as of current reporting. Ivanvector (^Talk/_Edits) 20:39, 8 November 2024 (UTC)
• Oppose per Natg 19. If it's posted, ALT4 is the best - the rest of them all have NPOV problems going in either direction. The Kip ^(contribs) 20:43, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

Oppose looks like football hooliganism, I can't remember us posting instances of this to ITN before. Scuba 21:01, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

Oppose Per Natg 19 and Scuba, no deaths so far Hungry403 (talk) 02:46, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

Oppose - relatively minor in the grand scheme of things, violence and football hooliganism by one group after being instigated by the other. RachelTensions (talk) 04:33, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

Oppose - football hooliganism + WP:POV; all of these blurbs portray the israelites as victims here without showing what they did for this to happen. The background section in the artile is literally bigger than the section on the attack Abo Yemen✉ 05:49, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

Oppose per Massem above. Yakikaki (talk) 14:34, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

• Oppose Describing an incident of football hooliganism as the "beginning of a pogrom there" in the Netherlands is completely false and ridiculous. Football hooliganism is not uncommon in Europe. The article itself states that "Maccabi Tel Aviv fans had been filmed beforehand burning a Palestinian flag, chanting anti-Arab slurs and not observing the moment of silence for victims of 2024 Spanish floods." The incident was not an "attack" - the article has serious NPOV issues. AusLondonder (talk) 14:43, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

Support This is very clearly NOT just football hooliganism, and none of the major media are presenting it as thus. Even the pro-Palestian Guardian is calling it "attacks on Israeli football fans" (The Guardian). The blatant POV of some of the commentators here, and their both-sides-ism, is despicable and should be discarded. Khuft (talk) 17:04, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

Only in the headline. The source you are citing to argue against "despicable both-sides-ism" goes on to repeatedly describe "incidents on both sides" and "fights on both sides" with both anti-Arab racism and antisemitism being causes of the fighting.  Vanilla  Wizard 💙 19:56, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

Did you even read the article? No-one is denying there were incidents started by the Maccabi fans, but the incidents thereafter targeting Maccabi fans were way more significant and shocking. The article quotes the mayor of Amsterdam, for instance, as follows: “Men on scooters crisscrossed the city looking for Israeli football fans. It was a hit and run. I can easily understand that this brings back memories of pogroms,” Halsema said. “Our city has been deeply damaged. Jewish culture has been deeply threatened. This is an outburst of antisemitism that I hope to never see again.” It's not me saying this - it's the actual mayor of the city where this happened. Khuft (talk) 20:34, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

Yes, I did see that the politician placed the blame squarely on one side without acknowledging the other. The police, the source you posted, and reliable sources more generally, acknowledged that incidents and fights occurred on both sides. This discussion about how the story should be framed is better suited for the talk page (where such a discussion is already happening), it's not going to be blurbed.  Vanilla  Wizard 💙 23:11, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

• Oppose on notability as this doesn't even make the list of the most significant events that could be described as spillovers of the Israel-Palestine conflict, strong oppose every proposed blurb except alt4 as terribly misleading. Alt3 is at least not POV, but it's not a very informative description of the event. Seems like we're past the point of WP:SNOW anyways.  Vanilla  Wizard 💙 19:56, 9 November 2024 (UTC)
• Oppose Doesnt appear notable enough for a blurb at this time. Noah, BSBA^Talk 20:35, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

Template:Close bottom

(Posted RD) RD: John Nott

Template:ITN candidate

• Oppose blurb Not a serving politician, certainly not a household name. OLDMANDIES This post was made by orbitalbuzzsaw gang (talk) 00:53, 8 November 2024 (UTC)
  • Neither of those are criteria that ITN has used to consider for blurbs. — Masem (t) 14:59, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

Support RD article quality good enough, not too sure about blurb though. Rynoip (talk) 01:34, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

• I can't say that I like how his books are referenced, but that would not stop me from posting this. The two citation needed tags that I've placed are of bigger concern. Schwede66 02:09, 8 November 2024 (UTC)
• Weak oppose on quality Some cn tags and Books section needs some sources. Oppose blurb not significant enough to warrant blurb. I mean, Colin Powell didn't get blurbed for Pete's sake. --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 07:04, 8 November 2024 (UTC)
• RD only, per Orbitalbuzzsaw 31.44.227.152 (talk) 07:53, 8 November 2024 (UTC)
• Oppose blurb, no indication of any impact or legacy beyond simply being connected to the Falklands war. Support RD, I tagged one bit of trivia in the death section (re surviving members of the Thatcher cabinet) but that's not a showstopper. --Masem (t) 12:41, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

Oppose blurb - not quite a Churchill or a Kissinger. The party also seems to have been defunct since 1968. Departure– (talk) 13:27, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

Not quite?! Not at all. Spartaz ^Humbug! 15:03, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

• Oppose blurb - I concur with TDKR that Colin Powell comes to mind as the primary comparison point. _{Duly signed,} ⛵ WaltClipper -(talk) 14:12, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

Support RD, Oppose Blurb article looks good, but being minister of defense during a war 40 years ago doesn't make you notable enough for a blurb. Scuba 21:01, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

Support RD, oppose blurb - The article is of sufficient quality to meet RD requirements, but given his role as a former Defence Secretary rather than a head of state or high-impact contemporary figure, a blurb feels unwarranted. His contributions do not reach the level of widespread historical impact typically needed for a standalone blurb. Anopisthograph (talk) 22:47, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

• Oppose blurb Not a figure of sufficient notability or impact to warrant a blurb. Keep in mind that the nominator here opposed the recent blurbing of a national constitutional referendum on European Union membership. AusLondonder (talk) 14:56, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

  Template:Replyto Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents is that way. BangJan1999 18:49, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

  Huh? AusLondonder (talk) 02:57, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

Template:U this was presumably in reference to your statement Template:Tq Natg 19 (talk) 21:44, 14 November 2024 (UTC)

• Posted Stephen 22:50, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

November 7

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(Posted) RD: Jürgen Becker (poet)

Template:ITN candidate

• Posted to RD. Spencer^T•C 20:11, 14 November 2024 (UTC)

(Posted) RD: Christine Görner

Template:ITN candidate German soprano who excelled in operetta, musical, film and entertaining music, especially one beloved operetta film. The article just survived a deletion suggestion, so became well sourced. Her death is reported only on her personal website, but what else can we expect about a woman who - if we believe the German Wikipedia - suffered a stroke 5 years ago and since lived in Italy with her son, where she died (on 30 October, but the first trace appeared here on 7 November) and was buried. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 14:21, 11 November 2024 (UTC)

• Support Looks good to me. Vacant0 (talk • contribs) 15:20, 13 November 2024 (UTC)
• Posted to RD Relatively short but meets minimum standards. Spencer^T•C 20:10, 14 November 2024 (UTC)

RD: Pim Sierks

Template:ITN candidate

• Oppose for now Until sourcing issues are fixed. Anopisthograph (talk) 05:33, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

(Posted) RD: Elwood Edwards

Template:ITN candidate

• Oppose orange tagged and 3 cn tags Rynoip (talk) 21:45, 7 November 2024 (UTC)
• Support Article looks good now. --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 07:48, 8 November 2024 (UTC)
• Support, article has no outstanding issues with sourcing now. 31.44.227.152 (talk) 07:56, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

support can't see any glaring problems. Scuba 21:02, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

• Support Issues have been fixed, and I can't find any reason not to post. Anopisthograph (talk) 01:57, 9 November 2024 (UTC)
• Support Article is now well sourced. Fats40boy11 (talk) 07:58, 9 November 2024 (UTC)
• Support LGTM. QuicoleJR (talk) 02:47, 10 November 2024 (UTC)
• Posted to RD. Spencer^T•C 06:18, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

RD: Tyka Nelson

Template:ITN candidate

• Weak oppose Article is tagged and her career section is rather short. --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 15:18, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

oppose yellow and orange tags. Scuba 21:03, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

Oppose Until issues are resolved and tags removed, per above Anopisthograph (talk) 01:17, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

(Closed) RD: Richard A. Cash

Template:Atop Template:ITN candidate

• Oppose and suggest close Way too stale. His death was reported by The Washington Post on October 26th. NYT was late to the party, but his death was well reported before. --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 10:14, 7 November 2024 (UTC)
• Amended to RD Abcmaxx (talk) 11:16, 7 November 2024 (UTC)
• Oppose as stale his death was first reported on 24 October [37], which is more than 7 days ago. Joseph2302 (talk) 11:37, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

Template:Abot

November 6

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(Posted) RD: Johannes Beutler

Template:ITN candidate

• Posted Stephen 22:56, 12 November 2024 (UTC)

RD: Tony Todd

Template:ITN candidate

Oppose for now. The Filmography section needs a lot of work - right now, it's almost completely unsourced. Anopisthograph (talk) 03:39, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

• Oppose Majority of filmography is currently unsourced alongside several unsourced paragraphs under television section. Fats40boy11 (talk) 07:50, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

(Posted) RD: Madeleine Riffaud

Template:ITN candidate Fighter in the French Resistance during World War II, writing poems at school and in prison where tortured and to be executed by the Nazis, after World War II encouraged to write by Eluard and portrayed by Picasso, then as war correspondent in Algeria and Vietnam, in a relationship with Nguyễn Đình Thi, distant for most of the long time. - Several of the article's references were no longer there, but could be replaced. More detail is in the sources, such as an early short marriage and a child that died young. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:18, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

Support Article seems good enough. Anopisthograph (talk) 23:48, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

Support article is properly cited. Scuba 01:18, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

Support better quality than the average nom we get around here, good to go. Flip^andFlopped ツ 18:07, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

• Posted. --PFHLai (talk) 21:39, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

(Posted) RD: Syed Shah Khusro Hussaini

Template:ITN candidate Indian Sufi and the vice president of the All India Muslim Personal Law Board. Khaatir (talk) 02:48, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

Support no citation problems. Scuba 21:03, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

Support I don't see any major issues. Anopisthograph (talk) 23:49, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

Support per above and marking as ready. Flip^andFlopped ツ 18:07, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

• Posted. --PFHLai (talk) 21:58, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

(Posted) RD: Anna Lo

Template:ITN candidate

• Unreferenced date of birth. Schwede66 02:00, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

  Template:Done Grimes2 (talk) 19:00, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

• Support seems ready now. Flip^andFlopped ツ 19:23, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

Support article looks fine. Scuba 21:04, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

• Support High-quality and well-sourced article. Anopisthograph (talk) 01:56, 9 November 2024 (UTC)
• Support Article is well sourced and looks ready. Fats40boy11 (talk) 07:43, 9 November 2024 (UTC)
• Posted to RD. Spencer^T•C 06:02, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

Hurricane Rafael

Template:ITN candidate

• Wait for the hurricane article and Oppose for the blackout Hurricane article needs to be updated with information on deaths. Blackout article contains only one sentence related to the hurricane. Also, I feel that the blurb should mention impacts across other countries as well and not only about Cuba. TNM101 (chat) 16:17, 7 November 2024 (UTC)
• Wait per TNM101. There are fatalities so that should be the focus, the Cuba grid going down again is less significant overall. Masem (t) 17:19, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

Support article looks good, hurricane made landfall, there have been fatalities. It's impossible to separate out the blackout so that should also be tagged. Scuba 21:05, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

• Support The article is comprehensive and well-updated. Given the significant fatalities and the large-scale power outages across multiple countries, this event meets ITN criteria for prominence. Anopisthograph (talk) 01:54, 9 November 2024 (UTC)
• Oppose, nothing significant, only 8 deaths. Stephen 07:09, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

(Posted) RD: John Cannan

Template:ITN candidate

• Support - Once you start reading the article, it's hard to stop before reaching the end.

51.154.145.205 (talk) 16:05, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

• Posted – That article makes for grim reading. Schwede66 01:55, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

RD: John Dempsey

Template:ITN candidate

• Oppose way too much unsourced content, and also for a career of 18 years, there should be more text. Also date of death is not well sourced (it was announced on 6 November, but source doesn't say that is date of death). Joseph2302 (talk) 11:40, 7 November 2024 (UTC)
• Oppose Date of death unverified. Needs more citations for career section. I have added verification tag for the article. TNM101 (chat) 13:51, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

Opposed lacking sources. Scuba 21:06, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

• Oppose. Orange tagged and needs more citations. Anopisthograph (talk) 01:48, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

(Posted) German ruling coalition collapse

Template:ITN candidate

Comment I have made 2024 German government crisis. Currently it is not ready to be a targetted article, and perhaps it should be merged into Scholz cabinet. Either way, I support in principle posting this. While we do not normally post government collapses, the present situation is very much unprecedented in Germany, and is receiving significant media coverage (if perhaps overshadowed by the US election). Gust Justice (talk) 21:57, 6 November 2024 (UTC)

I feel it better merged into Scholz cabinet article, given that article lacks necessary updates so far. Haers6120 (talk) 22:26, 6 November 2024 (UTC)

This seems the right approach. Not every separate event needs it's own article since you have to reestablish a lot of context for such cases. It might grow large enough into one in the future but in the immediate it should be merged (but still nominatable) — Masem (t) 22:28, 6 November 2024 (UTC)

I agree with the merge. The original blurb is fine with the links it has. Renerpho (talk) 23:55, 6 November 2024 (UTC)

I'm about to update the article. I don't think it should be merged because the impact will probably extend beyond the coalition. Perhaps we can talk about a merge in the future. Killarnee (talk) 05:36, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for your contribution! :). I will update the blurb now. Haers6120 (talk) 05:46, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

if that article gets expanded enough, I will highlight/re-targe it :) Haers6120 (talk) 05:53, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

We should be careful on such CRYSTAL claims, hence why it is better to keep these types of news events in context of a larger article. Should it truly be significant, establishing its own context, then a sepearate article can be made. Masem (t) 17:17, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

• Wait until the snap election is held and a new coalition (or whoever wins the election) is announced. TwistedAxe [contact] 00:24, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

  Considering how unusual this event is, I don't see why we should wait for that. Renerpho (talk) 03:47, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

• Support This will have a significant impact for the nation and globally. This event has a long history, with discontent since the last election and enormous resulting gains for radical parties. Waiting until the next (snap) election makes no sense, the vote of confidence must come first, and theoretically it could be that there is no snap election at all. But even if there were, the snap election would probably not be until March, which would be more than just a little wait and see what happens. Killarnee (talk) 05:13, 7 November 2024 (UTC)
• Support This is the 2nd biggest story in most places right now. Abcmaxx (talk) 11:24, 7 November 2024 (UTC)
• Support a bit drowned by the US election, but major story still. Juxlos (talk) 14:19, 7 November 2024 (UTC)
• Nominate and support Altblurb1, I don't think the "Traffic Light Coalition" nickname mean much to anyone outside Germany.31.44.227.152 (talk) 14:22, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

  The main reason for the collapse is a disagreement about the budget. Grimes2 (talk) 14:37, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

  Feel free to update if you think it warrants a change. 31.44.227.152 (talk) 17:16, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

  Thank you! I also feel that Alt1 is more suitable :) Haers6120 (talk) 16:33, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

• Support alt1 Seems notable enough for a blurb and agree that "Traffic Light Coalition" is meaningless for anyone who doesn't follow the German Reichstag closely. Kcmastrpc (talk) 14:38, 7 November 2024 (UTC)
• Support Major political development in major democracy, in the news globally. Prefer altblurb as wording seems better. Also support the creation of the seperate article on the government crisis which could be linked if appropriate. AusLondonder (talk) 14:46, 7 November 2024 (UTC)
• Support 4th biggest economy in the world (according to our own information) having an economic crisis that causes government to collapse meets WP:ITNSIGNIF. Joseph2302 (talk) 16:46, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

  is the announcement of asking for a confidence-vote in January 25 enough for ITN? the news besides this is, that our government doesnt have a majority anymore, because one of the three parties ruling left the federal government. User Kiril Simeonovski explained that pretty well (see a few comments below). LennBr (talk) 03:43, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

• Support, leaning towards alt blurb. Both are good, but I can't imagine that most people will understand what the traffic light coalition is. "The currently ruling coalition" is much better when it comes to general understanding. — BerryForPerpetuity (talk) 17:22, 7 November 2024 (UTC)
• Opinion How about change original blurb by replace 'traffic light coalition' with 'ruling coalition'? (that will make the sentence concise)
  such as 'German ruling coalition collapsed following policy disagreement over the economic crisis.' Haers6120 (talk) 17:52, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

  That sounds more reasonable - though I'm not convinced that it's ITN. To many "traffic-light coalition" sounds more like a transportation issue, than politics. Nfitz (talk) 18:11, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

  Yeah the term only makes sense if you are familiar with its usage in German politics. It's probably safer to avoid it for ITN. Gust Justice (talk) 18:32, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

• Strong support This isn't just a single event, this is the culmination of the unrests and displeasure the German public has had with the current government (i.e. 2023–2024 German farmers' protests). rayukk | talk 19:27, 7 November 2024 (UTC)
• Oppose until the vote of no confidence takes place on 15 January 2025 (or earlier). Has anyone here read what really happened or you're guided by the delusive blurbs? From what I read in the German article, chancellor Olaf Scholz (SPD) announced that he had submitted the dismissal of finance minister Christian Lindner (FDP) to president Frank-Walter Steinmeier due to unbridgeable differences within the government coalition and that a vote of no confidence of his government will be held on 15 January 2025. In response to this, justice minister Marco Buschmann and education minister Bettina Stark-Watzinger from FDP announced their resignations, whereas transport minister Volker Wissing left FDP and stayed in the government. As a result, the cabinet was restructured so that state secretary Jörg Kukies (SDP) was appointed new finance minister, Volker Wissing additionally took over the Ministry of Justice and agriculture minister Cem Özdemir (The Greens) additionally took over the Ministry of Education and Research. The government coalition—now composed of SPD and The Greens—will serve as a minority government over the next two months. For now, this is just a restructuring of the cabinet, and its collapse is dependent on the vote of no confidence. It's highly likely that no confidence will be voted and the parliamentary election next year will be scheduled earlier, but the right time to post this is when that actually happens.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 19:49, 7 November 2024 (UTC)
• Oppose I would wait for the vote of no confidence to take place before blurbing. This is when the government would officially collapse. For now, it is officially just a change in the government members... Tradedia^talk 23:49, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

  I would disagree with your assessment, as the FDP was completely kicked out of the coalition, leaving a minority government. I would say that that is sufficient. Yes I am a nerd -XCBRO172 (How could you tell?) 19:42, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

Support any of the blurbs look good. Government collapse is a major event, especially for the world's third largest economy. Scuba 21:07, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

• Support alt1. Highly notable event in one of the world's biggest economies. Hasn't happened since 1982. Blurb and alt2 are in the wrong tense. Anopisthograph (talk) 01:45, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

• Add altblurb3 and propose change nominated article I fixed grammar error and ensure conciseness, also could we re-target to the article "2024 German government crisis" as it seems got expanded enough. Haers6120 (talk) 07:28, 9 November 2024 (UTC)
• Support altblurb3 This is the best version. Grimes2 (talk) 22:04, 9 November 2024 (UTC)
• Posted. Spencer^T•C 05:59, 10 November 2024 (UTC)
• post-post oppose: Just post a new ITN entry after the snap election. Coalition collapse is a routine process and an inherent part of democracy. It may not have happened in while in Germany, but so what? All I'm reading here is: "A democratic government exercises a common and conventional internal procedure as part of politics in a democratic government." I struggle to see how this is ITN worthy. spintheer (talk) 15:04, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

November 5

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RD: Taoreed Lagbaja

Template:ITN candidate

• Not ready, needs more citations, especially the career section. 31.44.224.222 (talk) 21:18, 6 November 2024 (UTC)

• Oppose on quality. The entire five-paragraph Career section has only one reference. Anopisthograph (talk) 01:40, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

RD: Kazuo Umezu

Template:ITN candidate

• Comment Was coming to nominate this, but will add while his death was on Oct 28, like many Japanese ppl, the death was only announced today, giving time for privacy and mourning by family and friends. --Masem (t) 04:50, 6 November 2024 (UTC)

• Support if his works count as their own citations. If they do not count, then this is an oppose vote. Bremps... 05:45, 6 November 2024 (UTC)
• The "Works" section needs to be referenced. Schwede66 01:15, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

• Oppose Lots of unsourced content in the "Works" section. Anopisthograph (talk) 01:38, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

RD: Asot Michael

Template:ITN candidate

• Currently orange-tagged. Schwede66 01:12, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

• Oppose on quality. Orange tagged. Otherwise, the article looks ready. Anopisthograph (talk) 01:33, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

(Posted) RD: Sharda Sinha

Template:ITN candidate

• Support, article looks good and doesn't have any outstanding issues. 31.44.227.152 (talk) 14:47, 7 November 2024 (UTC)
• Not ready as it's got an unreferenced date of birth. Schwede66 01:08, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

• Support now that DOB reference has been provided. Article is in good shape. Anopisthograph (talk) 01:30, 9 November 2024 (UTC)
• Support Seems good enough with DOB reference. Flip^andFlopped ツ 18:08, 9 November 2024 (UTC)
• Posted. --PFHLai (talk) 19:59, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

(Closed) RD: Sammy Basso

Template:Atop Template:ITN candidate

• Oppose and suggest close Subject died on 5 October 2024 with the obit sourced on his page being dated as 10 October 2024. --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 15:42, 5 November 2024 (UTC)

Template:Abot

(Posted) 2024 United States presidential election

Template:ITN candidate

• Oppose and close as way premature. The Kip ^(contribs) 00:35, 5 November 2024 (UTC)

Agreed that this is premature, but don't see a need to close, as results will be announced in the next 36 hours. Natg 19 (talk) 00:41, 5 November 2024 (UTC)

• Wait Until results have been officially projected. Also, should we post the results of the Senate/House races too? Also the article is tagged. --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 00:36, 5 November 2024 (UTC)
• Comment Until the results have been officially confirmed, which may take days, we're not posting this. JohnAdams1800 (talk) 1:07, 5 November 2024
• Oppose as very premature. Have you ever seen ITN post a blurb like any of these proposals? Ask yourself why not. GenevieveDEon (talk) 00:37, 5 November 2024 (UTC)
• Ongoing A blurb is likely to be posted sometime soon so we should start discussion so that we're ready. For example, is the article quality and structure satisfactory or are there specific issues requiring attention? As many readers will already be looking for the article (over half a million yesterday), a link in Ongoing would be helpful.

Note that the article is already huge with over 10,000 words of prose and over 500 citations. Our focus should be on the lead and infobox as the main summaries. They could use a timetable with key dates for the polling and results as it currently just says that the inauguration is next year. Someone above says that we get the results in 36 hours. Is that right?

Note also that On this Day has Election Day (United States) as its lead item today.

Andrew🐉(talk) 08:11, 5 November 2024 (UTC)

Oppose blurb as written, post when there are results ITN should not have premature posts. --MtPenguinMonster (talk) 08:46, 5 November 2024 (UTC)

Hold till we have projected results. Certain to be ITN/R as it will result in a change of head of state regardless of who wins This post was made by orbitalbuzzsaw gang (talk) 08:49, 5 November 2024 (UTC)

• Oppose, the blurbs are extremely vague and doesn't mean anything. Save the ITN nomination for when the results are in. Comment withdrawn due to update. 31.44.224.222 (talk) 10:08, 5 November 2024 (UTC)
• Reopening the discussion The end is near. (Does anyone know if the Foreign Legion will take a 58 yo diabetic?) -Ad Orientem (talk) 05:35, 6 November 2024 (UTC)

• Went ahead and added pics of both candidates to the image protection page. Spencer^T•C 06:02, 6 November 2024 (UTC)

• Support - it's pretty clear that Trump has been elected. We need some blurbs though. Nfitz (talk) 06:07, 6 November 2024 (UTC)
• Ongoing until major new outlets call a winner. Worldwide, everyone is watching. Banedon (talk) 06:17, 6 November 2024 (UTC)
• Comment Decision Desk called the race, copied the blurb from 2016 as a starting point. Jumpytoo Talk 06:30, 6 November 2024 (UTC)
• Comment As of this comment, the article needs updating including tense modifications and there is an NPOV tag which I suspect is in reference to the lead. -Ad Orientem (talk) 06:44, 6 November 2024 (UTC)
• Wait Only Fox has called it. AP, BBC and all the others haven't yet. When its confirmed by others, then we can post President Trump. The C of E God Save the King! (talk) 06:58, 6 November 2024 (UTC)

  Fox hasn't called it - half-an-hour after you wrote this. I just was on Fox, and it says 267. Nfitz (talk) 07:29, 6 November 2024 (UTC)

  • Support And with the fact twice-President Trump is now a foregone conclusion, I now support posting. As for the Senate thing, might it be prudent to wait to see if we can add the House to it as well? The C of E God Save the King! (talk) 08:03, 6 November 2024 (UTC)

Support now Multiple sources have called the race for Trump. --MtPenguinMonster (talk) 10:42, 6 November 2024 (UTC) MtPenguinMonster (talk) 10:42, 6 November 2024 (UTC)

Comment - Maybe we should mention Trump winning the popular vote, a feat the Republicans haven't achieved since 2004 and definitely a notable factor as it means a majority of Americans have voted for Trump rather than just members of the electoral college. PrecariousWorlds (talk) 12:11, 6 November 2024 (UTC)

Template:Collapse top

• Support Wikipedia's editors lean very heavily into the far left, but this is getting ridiculous. Fox has already called the election, it's obvious what the outcome will be, stop stalling there's no point in it5.44.170.181 (talk) 07:02, 6 November 2024 (UTC)

  IP, we don't use Russian-funded media to call elections. We use reliable sources. LilianaUwU ^{(talk / contributions)} 07:06, 6 November 2024 (UTC)

  Oh im sorry I was born in the wrong country. I've thought supposed leftists were supposed to be anti-racist, but i guess that doesnt extend towards the wrong ethnicities

  btw trump would be the worse option for russia if you think about it for more than a second but you'd need to not be an npc for that. 5.44.170.181 (talk) 07:12, 6 November 2024 (UTC)

  Ok, that's enough. Please see WP:NOTFORUM. -Ad Orientem (talk) 07:16, 6 November 2024 (UTC)

A Russian IP being pro-Trump? How surprising *rolls eyes* AusLondonder (talk) 08:15, 6 November 2024 (UTC)

Template:Collapse bottom

• Wait per C of E. I'd like to see one more call to run this. DarkSide830 (talk) 07:04, 6 November 2024 (UTC)

  Aaaaaand that is it, PA was called by NBC and CNN. Support. Let's get this up. DarkSide830 (talk) 07:06, 6 November 2024 (UTC)

  Obviously Trump has won, but I've just looked at CNN, CBS, ABC, NBC, and BBC - and none have called it. Fox doesn't even seem to be airing election coverage. Nfitz (talk) 07:20, 6 November 2024 (UTC)

  I mean, I'm taking some liberties, but almost everyone has him at, what, 266, with Nebraska and Alaska among the outstanding. It's almost certain. We can wait, fair. But I doubt anything changes. DarkSide830 (talk) 07:23, 6 November 2024 (UTC)

  Obviously - but don't say that NBC and CNN have called it, when they haven't. I still can't see Fox - it's just commercials forever. Nfitz (talk) 07:26, 6 November 2024 (UTC)

  NBC and CNN called PA. DarkSide830 (talk) 07:28, 6 November 2024 (UTC)

• Support Major outlets are now calling it, there’s no point in further delay. Kcmastrpc (talk) 07:12, 6 November 2024 (UTC)
• Support it's obvious now that Trump's back in, there's no way Harris can win at the moment. Aydoh8^[contribs] 07:26, 6 November 2024 (UTC)

Support: AP just called Pennsylvania. Prodrummer619 (talk) 07:27, 6 November 2024 (UTC)

And if my calculations are correct when Alaska gets called he'll have the necessary votes. And Alaska's not a battleground state so.... 5.44.170.181 (talk) 07:32, 6 November 2024 (UTC)

Comment should we mention the senate and congress races too in the blurb? NYtimes has "called" senate for the republicans arleady 5.44.170.181 (talk) 07:33, 6 November 2024 (UTC)

Support Pretty clear winner by now, like it or not. Hungry403 (talk) 07:39, 6 November 2024 (UTC)

Support: Most conservative (not in the right-wing sense) projections have placed Trump 3-4 votes away from securing a re-election. Harris would need to win every uncalled state despite most of them projecting a Trump victory (and includes Alaska which hasn't voted for a Democrat in 60 years). I'd rather take our chances with a "Dewey Defeats Truman" moment at this point. PolarManne (talk) 07:41, 6 November 2024 (UTC)

Support all reliable sources have called PA and GA. It's only a formality before they call Alaska - which would give Trump a win. I expect the call will go out before this ITN is posted. Juxlos (talk) 07:56, 6 November 2024 (UTC)

Wait for RSes to call 270. theleekycauldron (talk • she/her) 08:19, 6 November 2024 (UTC)

• Support very clear that Trump win Tensa Februari (talk) 08:26, 6 November 2024 (UTC)
• Support Respected world leaders such as Volodymyr Zelenskyy have already congratulated Trump on his victory. NICHOLAS NEEDLEHAM (talk) 08:32, 6 November 2024 (UTC)
• Moral support – The 2024 United States presidential election article hasn't been updated to project a Trump win due to the RfC discussion requiring unanimous projections from an assortment of sources, which other than AP are arguably arbitrarily limited to traditional television news networks. ITN is not going to say anything which the article does not say, so we would have to follow the RfC consensus. But I trust Decision Desk HQ, and they have called the race for Trump, so it's a matter of time before the sources we require for race calls call the race for Trump. Here's to another 4 years of chaos, I'm afraid. feminist🩸 (talk) 08:37, 6 November 2024 (UTC)

  That's the standard for the article. This is in the news. And the headline on BBC is that "Donald Trump declares victory". Maybe that should be our headline too. Nfitz (talk) Nfitz (talk) 09:01, 6 November 2024 (UTC)

• Oppose for similar reasons outlined by feminist🩸 above - the article has not been updated to show who the winner is. For everyone above who has voted support - have you actually read the article before voicing your support? Chrisclear (talk) 08:48, 6 November 2024 (UTC)

  It's a little difficult to update when the article is fully protected. — hako9 (talk) 09:02, 6 November 2024 (UTC)

  I mean, I get it, but it's not like we've never posted an election without full results in the article, and with how things get "called", technically an official result isn't coming until after the calls. DarkSide830 (talk) 09:07, 6 November 2024 (UTC)

  Technically, an official result doesn't come until January 6th. We shouldn't wait until then either. Nfitz (talk) 09:59, 6 November 2024 (UTC)

• Needs work Revisiting this now we're allowed to discuss it again, I just read through the current lead of the nominated article. This mainly covers Biden and Trump but has very little about Harris and doesn't even mention third party candidates like Kennedy. It should have more about the campaign events like the debates and polling swings and more about the actual voting results. The general history of Biden and Trump and their flaws is less directly relevant and needs trimming to make space for better election coverage.

But now I see that this work isn't going to get done in a timely fashion because the article is fully protected and so editing will slow to a crawl. This seems to be a major quality issue. ITN is supposed to "emphasize Wikipedia as a dynamic resource" and this locking shows it to be otherwise.

I was wondering whether Donald Trump might be the bold article in the blurb, to work around the locking. But that article needs work too. Its lead only seems to have one sentence about this election campaign and its result and so badly needs updating too.

Andrew🐉(talk) 09:23, 6 November 2024 (UTC)

• Comment - alternative blurb that we can post now, and does appear to be the lead story on non-American news agencies. "Donald Trump Declared Victory in USA 2024 election". Nfitz (talk) 09:03, 6 November 2024 (UTC)

  This is great, i think you should go with that. 5.44.170.181 (talk) 10:07, 6 November 2024 (UTC)

• Wait - Article needs to be properly put up to date on the results and events before being blurbed, which might take a while due to it being fully protected for now. Would support once done. - Bucket of sulfuric acid (talk | contribs) 10:11, 6 November 2024 (UTC)
• Usually, I would support posting election results right after the election, but I actually think it would be better to wait until Inauguration Day to post something like this. I will guarantee you that this will be nominated on January 20, so I think from now on, it's better to wait until inauguration day right when the president is sworn in. Interstellarity (talk) 10:27, 6 November 2024 (UTC)

  That is definitely an interesting take. --Bongwarrior (talk) 10:46, 6 November 2024 (UTC)

  I think the only delayed postings are sometimes when the swearing-in is only days away. —Bagumba (talk) 11:51, 6 November 2024 (UTC)

• Comment. WI has been called for Trump almost unanimously. DarkSide830 (talk) 10:35, 6 November 2024 (UTC)
• Support Wisconsin has been called in his favor, therefore he crosses 270 mark and I think it should be posted now with the Alt Blurb II. ਪ੍ਰਿੰਸ ਆਫ਼ ਪੰਜਾਬ ^{(PrinceofPunjab | ਗੱਲਬਾਤ)} 10:42, 6 November 2024 (UTC)
• Support now that AP has called the election. Anarchyte (talk) 10:45, 6 November 2024 (UTC)
• Comment: AP, ABC, CNN, NBC, and the BBC have all called it for Trump. Consensus among major news outlets has developed. PolarManne (talk) 10:47, 6 November 2024 (UTC)
• Support ITNR and article is uo to par. –Jiaminglimjm (talk) 10:59, 6 November 2024 (UTC)
• Posted. Sam Walton (talk) 11:00, 6 November 2024 (UTC)
• Comment - why remove mention of the Republicans taking the Senate? --Rockstone^{Send me a message!} 23:48, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

This was because of a discussion at WP:ERRORS. Natg 19 (talk) 01:47, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

• Pull - we should wait until Inauguration Day to post this. Interstellarity (talk) 13:17, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

Huh? We always post election results, so don't know why Trump should be an exception. Natg 19 (talk) 18:35, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

• Post-posting support - We just posted Maia Sandu's election as President of Moldova, which was undoubtably much smaller news than this. I see no reason to pull Donald Trump's election as President of the United States. Anopisthograph (talk) 01:54, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

November 4

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RD: Barbara T. Bowman

Template:ITN candidate

• Unreferenced date of birth needs fixing. Schwede66 01:06, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

• Oppose on quality - Two CN tags Anopisthograph (talk) 01:28, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

(Posted) RD: Bernard Marcus

Template:ITN candidate

Support because his company, Home Depot, is very notable and he was a Republican megadonor. The article could use some extra sources, but it merits RD. JohnAdams1800 (talk) 16:19, 5 November 2024 (UTC)

Template:Ping Notability is not a criterion for RD: Template:Tq Natg 19 (talk) 18:05, 5 November 2024 (UTC)

Comment Death date reliably sourced now.—Bagumba (talk) 06:03, 6 November 2024 (UTC)

• Support Article looks good. --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 13:24, 6 November 2024 (UTC)
• Support, no outstanding issues with sourcing as far as I can see. Article in good shape. 31.44.224.222 (talk) 21:24, 6 November 2024 (UTC)
• Posted – Schwede66 01:02, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

RD: Murray Sinclair

Template:ITN candidate

• Not ready It's close, but there's a few areas where citations are needed. I'm not sure how ITN will rate the guy who chaired a genocide commission, arguably the most important commission in recent Canadian history. NorthernFalcon (talk) 17:23, 4 November 2024 (UTC)

  It sure wasn't thrilled with the Pope's recent(ish) apology, but unanimously supported that first big unmarked graves discovery. InedibleHulk (talk) 20:24, 4 November 2024 (UTC)

• Support Sinclair was a very notable individual for his work and life in an often under-reported and lesser known part of Canadian society: Indigenous issues, both contemporary and historical. For the very reason that his name is not familiar to many, but is lauded by many organizations in his passing with statements, is exactly why it’s fitting for his passing to be nominated for ITN. That being said, the article had some issues at the beginning but with some TLC by a few contributors it's getting better cited claims and structure. —f3ndot ^{(TALK) (EMAIL)} 13:26, 5 November 2024 (UTC)

• Support article is in good shape, obviously not anywhere near Feature quality, but certainly close to a good article. Murray Sinclair is probably the most significant Canadian to die this year. — Abebenjoe (talk) 19:10, 5 November 2024 (UTC)

  I think the majority would go with Donald Sutherland, though. InedibleHulk (talk) 22:21, 5 November 2024 (UTC)

  I agree. Murray Sinclair for sure should be recognized on Wikipedia's recent deaths. Aquick777 (talk) 01:48, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

• Not ready. There are 10 citation needed tags, some are for entire paragraphs without sources. Flibirigit (talk) 23:47, 5 November 2024 (UTC)

Oppose on quality CN issues need to be resolved before posting. Anopisthograph (talk) 01:26, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

(Closed) 2024 Uttarakhand bus accident

Template:Atop Template:ITN candidate

• Oppose on Quality: Poor citation style and lack of content. Prodrummer619 (talk) 10:47, 4 November 2024 (UTC)
• Comment I have expanded the article and converted many links into citations TNM101 (chat) 11:24, 4 November 2024 (UTC)
• Undecided Notable, but a little bit short. Grimes2 (talk) 13:02, 4 November 2024 (UTC)
• Oppose Common occurrence. 2 a year for the past two years that have made it passed WP:N. Likely a few more that have not. Fact of life in such countries. 202.53.51.66 (talk) 13:30, 4 November 2024 (UTC)
• Oppose We're back to NOTNEWS territory problems again. Most road traffic accidents are not going to have any long tail of notability, and probably best to include on one of several lists we have that document such accidents. --Masem (t) 13:38, 4 November 2024 (UTC)
• Support on Notability but Wait on quality We posted the 2024 Mmamatlakala bus crash, so there seems to be no reason not to post this. Maybe a bit of expansion will help TNM101 (chat) 15:49, 4 November 2024 (UTC)

  Agree with TNM101 Bloxzge 025 (talk) 20:58, 4 November 2024 (UTC)

• Without commenting on the ITN-worthiness of the item, I shall point out that the article is a stub, and we do not post stubs. Schwede66 23:28, 4 November 2024 (UTC)
• Oppose Article is not ready and is calling this an accident which contradicts WP:NPOV Dreameditsbrooklyn (talk) 00:23, 5 November 2024 (UTC)

In what conceivable way does calling this an accident breach NPOV? GenevieveDEon (talk) 00:26, 5 November 2024 (UTC)

I think the point being made (not that I necessarily agree) is that it asserts, without evidence, that it was not a driver suicide, sabotage, etc. Bremps... 00:29, 5 November 2024 (UTC)

Accident implies that there was no precipitating human factor or fault resulting in the crash which is not for us to determine. Crash is simply the more accurate terminology and does not prematurely absolve anyone of fault. Dreameditsbrooklyn (talk) 00:59, 5 November 2024 (UTC)

OK, I see your point. However, RS such as the BBC are using 'accident'. GenevieveDEon (talk) 07:37, 5 November 2024 (UTC)

Agree with Dreameditsbrooklyn's notion. I accept, however, that the use of "accident" is so common and engrained that it's hard to argue this point. Schwede66 03:26, 6 November 2024 (UTC)

• Comment, added altblurb2 as I feel neither of the current blurbs either contains proper clarification or objective tone. 31.44.224.222 (talk) 12:12, 5 November 2024 (UTC)
• Oppose per Masem. Though I do remember including a few of these in ITN in the past (must have been during slower news cycles). At that time the rationale was the number of deaths is significant and thereby fits notability criteria for ITN. But I do think WP:NOTNEWS applies here more strongly Schwinnspeed (talk) 13:05, 5 November 2024 (UTC)
• Oppose Not the type of article that we want to be promoting in an encyclopedia. I also opposed the previous bus accident item. Tradedia^talk 21:30, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

Oppose Not notable enough for ITN. It's a common occurrence, sadly. Anopisthograph (talk) 01:24, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

Template:Abot

RD/blurb: Quincy Jones

Template:ITN candidate

• Oppose on quality Article needs some ref work done. Seeing how he's won nearly 30 Grammys, had a major impact on the music industry that propelled the careers of several influential singers/musicians, I could see an argument for a blurb. --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 08:44, 4 November 2024 (UTC)
• Support blurb but Oppose on quality. Transformative figure in his field and widely-recognised name beyond his industry. Abcmaxx (talk) 09:18, 4 November 2024 (UTC)
• Support blurb but not ready on quality. His name speaks for itself. Flibirigit (talk) 12:30, 4 November 2024 (UTC)

  No, it really doesn't, especially not on a global scale. Explain. 31.44.224.222 (talk) 10:12, 5 November 2024 (UTC)

• Wait for RD Per above, this is a widely-recognized name that speaks for itself, making the other twelve proposed words extra. InedibleHulk (talk) 12:55, 4 November 2024 (UTC)

  We should never be relying on fame or household name for any aspect. That is feeding the systematic bias. We should assume readers on the front page do not know who these people are. — Masem (t) 13:03, 4 November 2024 (UTC)

  By that logic, we'd describe the other six RDs, which we don't. InedibleHulk (talk) 13:06, 4 November 2024 (UTC)

• Oppose now on quality for any posting. Now, here's a person I'd think be worthy of a blurb, but at this point Oppose blurb because the article currently lacks the type of clear summary of why he's a legacy in the music business, though that likely can be fixed to improve it. We need to avoid hand-waving claims of importance and make sure the article has established that through sourcing. Its just not doing that right now, which is part of the quality issue as well. --Masem (t) 13:01, 4 November 2024 (UTC)
• Oppose RD citations needed, and article needs work, also oppose blurb Scuba 15:55, 4 November 2024 (UTC)
• Oppose blurb Seriously, guys? Textbook OLDMANDIES. Not a serving politician. Certainly not a household name. This post was made by orbitalbuzzsaw gang (talk) 01:20, 5 November 2024 (UTC)

  Blurbs aren't reserved for serving politicians and he is very much a household name. Abcmaxx (talk) 08:29, 5 November 2024 (UTC)

  Since ITN is for news events, a death should only be blurbed if the death itself is a news event; a serving politician dying is notable in and of itself because it has repercussions for the gov't in question. Moreover, I don't know where you're from but I'd never heard of him. Nelson Mandela he was not This post was made by orbitalbuzzsaw gang (talk) 08:51, 5 November 2024 (UTC)

  ITN is not for news events. It is to feature quality articles that are in the news. If you want news events, read Wikinews. — Masem (t) 12:59, 5 November 2024 (UTC)

  I strongly disagree on Quincy Jones being a household name, while I agree he's a major figure in the recording industry, he's far from a household name, such as how your average human anywhere in the world is far more likely to know who Musk or Zuckerberg is. I hadn't even heard of him before his death. 31.44.224.222 (talk) 09:56, 5 November 2024 (UTC)

• Support blurb as a highly relevant person in his field. However, the article does not seem to be ready. Hopefully it'll get fixed soon. RD is fine anyway. Bedivere (talk) 03:38, 5 November 2024 (UTC)
• Support RD, Oppose blurb, notable individual, but not on par of that of a head of state. 31.44.224.222 (talk) 09:46, 5 November 2024 (UTC)
• Oppose - The article is unfortunately full of dead refs (and it is restricted from being edited, so can't even try to fix them) 51.154.145.205 (talk) 16:55, 5 November 2024 (UTC)

  I "fixed" the remaining dead link, instead tagging it as unreliable for using TV.com (WP:RSP). Protection isn't the culprit, its the actions of certain unregistered users that compelled it. Registration has its benefits. —Bagumba (talk) 04:04, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

• Support blurb on notability - Famous in the West in the 1960s, even played in communist Yugoslavia, in addition to facts pointed out above. I'd say a cut above OLDMANDIES or even SERVINGPOLDIES. Daß Wölf 18:55, 5 November 2024 (UTC)

• Neutral on blurb. Very influential in his field, but perhaps not a "household name"? In any case, wait on posting, as there are many cn tags and other ref issues. -insert valid name here- (talk) 19:12, 5 November 2024 (UTC)
• Support RD - This debate on RD/blurb will prevent Jones from appearing entirely on ITN. Let's get the RD up there before it goes stale, which would be absurd. --Varavour (talk) 09:19, 8 November 2024 (UTC)
• Support RD but Oppose on quality Article has multiple cn tags. Filmography section has a tag. That needs to be addressed before it is posted. TNM101 (chat) 10:57, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

Oppose RD. Article currently has six CN tags. Anopisthograph (talk) 01:22, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

November 3

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(Posted) 2024 Moldovan presidential election

Template:ITN candidate Not much to be said except that it's a significant election. BastianMAT (talk) 21:24, 3 November 2024 (UTC)

• Support - Obviously a major story, and ITNR. As an aside, the BBC needs to get a less compromised Chisinau correspondent; they're still reporting Stoianoglo is ahead while other sources are saying Sandu has won; they did the equivalent with the referendum too. GenevieveDEon (talk) 21:27, 3 November 2024 (UTC)

  They've flipped now. But still, if I had a nickel for every time this year the BBC wrongly called a Moldovan national poll for the pro-Russian choice, I'd have at least two nickels. GenevieveDEon (talk) 21:42, 3 November 2024 (UTC)

• Strong support thus concludes the story of these elections and referendum, that international media have presented as a choice between the West and Russia (hence the relevance of this result). Super Ψ Dro 21:38, 3 November 2024 (UTC)

• Support ITN/R, and besides some results still needing to trickle in the article looks good. Amazing that Moldova was able to just power through Russian interference. Scuba 22:22, 3 November 2024 (UTC)
• Posted Stephen 23:47, 3 November 2024 (UTC)
• Support because it's a major event, with her victory being considered pro-EU, compared to her pro-Russia opponent. JohnAdams1800 (talk) 01:25, 4 November 2024 (UTC)

(Posted) 2024 Japan Series

Template:ITN candidate

No problem. You're excellent for everyone. Kboybaseball1994 (talk) 16:00, 3 November 2024 (UTC)

• Support good quality article, ITN/R. We recently posted the World Series and this is just as prestigious. –DMartin 19:08, 3 November 2024 (UTC)
• Support - Just as prestigious as the World Series, and much more accurately named. GenevieveDEon (talk) 20:38, 3 November 2024 (UTC)
• Support article looks good, can we get the game 6 MVP in as an image? Scuba 22:50, 3 November 2024 (UTC)
• Posted Stephen 23:38, 3 November 2024 (UTC)

(Closed) Monkey business

Template:Atop Template:ITN candidate

• Oppose - This isn't a new discovery; it's a confirmation of something already well-known. Our own article Orders of magnitude (numbers) has the probability that a monkey will type the works of Shakespeare starting at any given input as the very smallest number it mentions, at approximately Template:10^. The reciprocal of that number is unimaginably greater than the age of the universe measured in Planck time units. The infinite monkey theorem was formulated to illustrate a point about infinity, so it shouldn't be a surprise that even very large finite quantities encountered in reality are insufficient. This is largely an exercise in the innumeracy of science journalists. GenevieveDEon (talk) 11:16, 3 November 2024 (UTC)

Strong oppose per above. Anyone could have calculated this, myself included, given enough time (or not, given the results of this calculation). It isn't a new element of math which we'll reference for years to come, it's just putting to bed an old figure of speech. Sensationalism at its finest. Departure– (talk) 13:10, 3 November 2024 (UTC)

Oppose - Fun story, but as others said I feel like this thought experiment has already been explored, there wouldn't be enough time before thermodynamic stasis in the universe for a monkey to randomly type out Shakespeare. Some interesting conclusions but this is more for DYK than ITN. PrecariousWorlds (talk) 14:05, 3 November 2024 (UTC)

Oppose per GenevieveDEon. Bitspectator ⛩️ 14:32, 3 November 2024 (UTC)

• Oppose. Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't this study basically remove the "infinite" aspect of the thought experiment? That to me seems to undermine its relevance to the topic. DarkSide830 (talk) 16:00, 3 November 2024 (UTC)

It does. (There's also a degree of subtlety in the original theorem, around the term almost certain, which is of interest.) This research is basically saying that it really does have to be infinite, or at least completely out of scale with the entire known universe, for the result to apply. But as I noted in my original !vote, we knew that, and already had it documented here on Wikipedia. GenevieveDEon (talk) 16:06, 3 November 2024 (UTC)

Template:Abot

November 2

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(Posted) RD: Paul Stephenson

Template:ITN candidate

• Support Could only find one significant unsourced statement which I’ve added a reference to. yorkshiresky (talk) 12:06, 4 November 2024 (UTC)
• Support: I changed a couple of inline refs into footnotes. UndercoverClassicist ^T·C 12:14, 4 November 2024 (UTC)
• Posted – Schwede66 23:25, 4 November 2024 (UTC)

(Posted) RD: Dub Jones

Template:ITN candidate

• Support article looks fine. Death is now being reported by main news sources. Natg 19 (talk) 23:42, 2 November 2024 (UTC)
• Support Meets quality requirements, is a GA.—Bagumba (talk) 17:29, 3 November 2024 (UTC)
• Posted Stephen 23:33, 3 November 2024 (UTC)

European floods

Template:ITN candidate

• Strong oppose This is a string of unrelated weather events, though reasonable to cover as a single article, but it is not like this is one long flood that is affecting more and more people daily. We posted the Spain floods, but there's no indication that system is continuing to create floods elshewer. --Masem (t) 16:51, 2 November 2024 (UTC)

Oppose per Masem and the fact that the majority of the floods happened weeks apart 27.96.223.193 (talk) 22:02, 2 November 2024 (UTC)

Oppose as per above. The European floods are only related insofar as they are all a result of climate change; they are not a singular ongoing event receiving frequent updates. --MtPenguinMonster (talk) 04:27, 4 November 2024 (UTC)

Oppose Not a singular event. Anopisthograph (talk) 01:19, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

(Closed) Kemi Badenoch succeeds Rishi Sunak

Template:Atop Template:ITN candidate

Strong support New head of government. I'd argue this is ITN/R. Forgot Starmer was head of government now. Oppose for now, we didn't post Starmer coming to power before Labour's majority that made him PM (April 2020, didn't even get nominated), even when he was head of opposition, so I'd argue that when the same happens to the Conservative party it isn't any more notable. Departure– (talk) 15:18, 2 November 2024 (UTC)

Interesting that it wasn't nominated at all. I reckon this is a large change nonetheless though, and notable enough to be ITN. It feels like ITN sometimes misses some pretty important nominations. Would've been great if it was nominated back then so we could've gotten opinions on headlines like this, but I'm nominating it to see what the people here at ITN think. TwistedAxe [contact] 15:23, 2 November 2024 (UTC)

For a more recent opinion, Wikipedia:In the news/Candidates/January 2023#January 3 had the 2022 US midterms concluding with Hakeem Jeffries becoming House minority leader, again a change of leadership of the second largest party in one of the world's most important institutions. That itself was not nominated (only the election as a whole was), and despite Jeffries being the first African American US house party leader (comparable to Badenoch being the first Black woman leader of a major UK party), Jeffries is only mentioned in a single reply in that entire thread. A new minority leader in a democracy, failing being a very major first larger than what Jeffries and Badenoch are, isn't an item for ITN. Departure– (talk) 15:31, 2 November 2024 (UTC)

In this case though, I don't think the comparison is that equal. To be the minority leader of the House of Representatives isn't the equivalent of being the party leader or the candidate for president (or prime minister if you will). A more appropriate comparison would be if Kamala Harris was replaced with another candidate instead. Do you not think that would be appropriate for ITN in that case? TwistedAxe [contact] 15:44, 2 November 2024 (UTC)

There was an ITN discussion when Kamala replaced Biden for the presidential nominee back in August and that went nowhere. Only Biden's withdrawl was posted, and that was notable because he had secured enough delegates to be the next nominee. The differences between the US and UK political systems make this a tough comparison. Departure– (talk) 15:47, 2 November 2024 (UTC)

I feel like the withdrawal was posted because it was a notable event, yes, but also because it was kind of obvious and covered his replacement by Harris. It would be redundant to post 2 separate ITN noms that more or less cover the same subject. TwistedAxe [contact] 16:05, 2 November 2024 (UTC)

• Support In a democratic system, the leader of the opposition is an important post. A major change in British politics. Grimes2 (talk) 15:45, 2 November 2024 (UTC)
• Oppose How many party leaders have the conservative party had for the last several years? But seriously, if there would be a logic to this we would have to make an ITN for every opposition leader that is replaced anywhere in a remotely democratic system. It doesn't make sense to me. Yakikaki (talk) 16:04, 2 November 2024 (UTC)

  Why does it matter if the Conservative party has had alot of party leaders the past few years? And to answer the second statement, do you really not think the UK is a major democratic nation? I'd argue as a non-Brit myself that the UK exerts a massive amount of influence over other countries in the region and globally. Obviously the leadership of a country like that will also affect other countries? TwistedAxe [contact] 16:07, 2 November 2024 (UTC)

I believe you misunderstand Yakikaki's comment. They are not saying that the UK is not democratic. Template:Tq means that they do not want to make a precedent to have an ITN entry for party leader changes for any country that has a "democratic" governmental system (this could in theory refer to any country that has elections, whether rigged or fair). Natg 19 (talk) 18:28, 2 November 2024 (UTC)

• Oppose Leader change of a political party is not suffifciently significant and I imagine would not be nominated for any other country. – Muboshgu (talk) 16:06, 2 November 2024 (UTC)
• Support My general philosophy is, "if it's an interesting occurrence that is in the news and getting widespread coverage, then post it". This rings true here. To put it bluntly, Badenoch becoming leader is more newsworthy than Starmer becoming leader because she is the first Black person to lead a major British political party. Flip^andFlopped ツ 17:12, 2 November 2024 (UTC)

  An internal party leadership election is more notable than the first change in government in one of the world's largest economies in 14 years? PrecariousWorlds (talk) 19:25, 2 November 2024 (UTC)

• Oppose - This is an internal party matter. Sunak is not head of government any more, and Badenoch may well never be. We have a lot of actual national elections currently nominated or coming up, and this just isn't in the same league. GenevieveDEon (talk) 17:18, 2 November 2024 (UTC)
• Oppose Per Yakikaki, right now Badenoch's highest office is simply the leader of the opposition. We don't tend to remark much on party leadership changes in non-ruling parties. Ornithoptera (talk) 17:21, 2 November 2024 (UTC)

  Indeed, there have been many Leader of the Opposition (United Kingdom). Grimes2 (talk) 17:38, 2 November 2024 (UTC)

• Oppose good faith nom per above. While undoubtedly a significant event in UK politics, AFAIK we have never posted the election of an opposition leader. -Ad Orientem (talk) 17:43, 2 November 2024 (UTC)

Oppose - Speaking from the UK this is a major political development, but not enough for international news PrecariousWorlds (talk) 18:06, 2 November 2024 (UTC)

• Comment This seems like a very one country specific story. I'm not aware of any precedent for posting non-government political party leadership changes. Quite a few people here even opposed posting a change in head of government of France. AusLondonder (talk) 18:45, 2 November 2024 (UTC)
• Oppose Another one of those stories we would never nominate if it hadn't happened in an English-speaking country. We could find equal coverage in those countries when Spain, Germany, Italy etc. elect a new opposition leader, just it would be niche news in the Anglosphere. Curiously, I looked up whether Jeremy Corbyn was nominated in 2015 (a much bigger internal ideological shift) and it was just as opposed for the same reason. Unknown Temptation (talk) 19:05, 2 November 2024 (UTC)

• Oppose This is not a change of head of state or government, or involving an incumbent. This is just an internal party leadership change.

JohnAdams1800 (talk) 19:52, 2 November 2024 (UTC)

Template:Abottom

(Posted) RD: Janey Godley

Template:ITN candidate

• Support Article in good condition. Good work. Grimes2 (talk) 13:54, 2 November 2024 (UTC)
• Support Nothing wrong with the quality of this article. Unknown Temptation (talk) 19:09, 2 November 2024 (UTC)
• Posted Good work, Template:U. Schwede66 04:42, 3 November 2024 (UTC)

RD: Cassius

Template:ITN candidate

Support - A squirrel and a crocodile, wonder what's next PrecariousWorlds (talk) 13:10, 2 November 2024 (UTC)

Oppose for now, there's more information on the crocodile's last months that's out there that should be added to the article first. Departure– (talk) 13:17, 2 November 2024 (UTC)

• Oppose. Article body is three sentences long. DarkSide830 (talk) 18:12, 2 November 2024 (UTC)
• Article is currently a stub, and we don't post stubs. Schwede66 04:40, 3 November 2024 (UTC)

Oppose As a stub. Anopisthograph (talk) 01:18, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

November 1

Template:Cot Portal:Current events/2024 November 1 Template:Cob

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(Review needed) RD: Alastair Down (journalist)

Template:ITN candidate

(Posted) RD: Peanut the squirrel

Template:ITN candidate

• Support. Count Iblis (talk) 12:49, 2 November 2024 (UTC)

  Oppose the squirrel isn't notable enough to get attention In the News. Rager7 (talk) 20:33, 2 November 2024 (UTC)

  Template:U, please look again. International news and coast-to-coast in the U.S. Randy Kryn (talk) 22:51, 2 November 2024 (UTC)

  For a day or so. Secretlondon (talk) 13:35, 3 November 2024 (UTC)

  Template:U, this is an RD nomination, not a blurb nomination.  Vanilla  Wizard 💙 17:49, 3 November 2024 (UTC)

Strong oppose the article does not demonstrate the subject's notability. Regardless of whether or not the ITN rule of "all RDs are notable" is in effect I'd still oppose on quality; demonstrating notability is a pretty big part of the 'quality' in posted RD articles that we do have a say in. This village pump discussion stated that social media followers aren't used to justify notability alone, and beyond that the squirrel's only claim to fame is being euthanized which is by no means unusual. If and when the article gets more significant coverage, let me know and I'll change my vote, but this article was created just now and the headlines might have some sensationalism in their motives. Departure– (talk) 13:15, 2 November 2024 (UTC)

• Oppose Support Because of formal reasons. Article is too short. Grimes2 (talk) 13:27, 2 November 2024 (UTC)
• Oppose Article was created today (so we can question notability here), and ignoring the last few days of news burst coverage, I'm not finding much to demonstrate that there was notability to start with. A few articles here and there but not from very strong sources. --Masem (t) 13:32, 2 November 2024 (UTC)
  • Removing my Oppose since the article was kept and we have that ITNRD practice. But consider this a non support abstain, as I think this whole situation is the epidemic problem with editors failing to follow NOTNEWS and being able to distinguish what is appropriate for an encyclopedia and what is sensalist news content. Masem (t) 15:37, 4 November 2024 (UTC)
• Oppose and redirect to New York State Department of Environmental Conservation.--Launchballer 13:39, 2 November 2024 (UTC)

  This is an argument for a deletion discussion on the target page. Note that the opening of such a discussion would keep this away from RD. Departure– (talk) 13:52, 2 November 2024 (UTC)

• Support, although a stub the page is well sourced, and the controversy surrounding this death has been internationally covered. Randy Kryn (talk) 13:59, 2 November 2024 (UTC)

  This is an example of how a burst of news is not equivalent to notability per WP:N and WP:NEVENTS. Unless there was significant coverage before the death, then this is not a notable topic for WP. Masem (t) 15:13, 2 November 2024 (UTC)

  Template:U, please reconsider, as the squirrel is getting international coverage now mainly because it has been an internet star for years. A notable topic, and worthy of notice in RD. Thanks. Randy Kryn (talk) 22:51, 2 November 2024 (UTC)

  How much significant coverage is there of the pre-death facets? Yes, was famous on TikTok but the articles that I am seeing do not going much more beyond that. That's not notable for our purposes. — Masem (t) 00:09, 3 November 2024 (UTC)

• Oppose. Article is a stub and nominated for deletion. DarkSide830 (talk) 18:09, 2 November 2024 (UTC)
• Oppose - Subject is not notable, story is not headline news, one of the main news references given is an admitted hoax, and the article is at AfD. GenevieveDEon (talk) 22:54, 2 November 2024 (UTC)
• Support Decent RS. ~ HAL333 (VOTE!) 23:23, 2 November 2024 (UTC)
• Support Major news item, many people will come here looking for information about it. Dream Focus 00:14, 3 November 2024 (UTC)

  Wikipedia is not a newspaper, though. If you want to see this posted you can participate in the deletion discussion. Departure– (talk) 00:20, 3 November 2024 (UTC)

Support a national tragedy. Scuba 02:43, 3 November 2024 (UTC)

Seriously??? Masem (t) 02:51, 3 November 2024 (UTC)

Yes. Why is it always the gamers and anime nerds who want to censor things here? 64.229.210.77 (talk) 13:33, 3 November 2024 (UTC)

It's not censorship to say that the death of two small animals is not a national tragedy. It's a plain statement of fact. GenevieveDEon (talk) 13:43, 3 November 2024 (UTC)

the deaths are not the crux of the story. The government signing a search warrant to raid the homes of people with a non rabid squirrel to kill it based off one random internet complaint is the story. How do all of you super editors not get that? 64.229.210.77 (talk) 14:19, 3 November 2024 (UTC)

Then as Launchballer suggests, this doesn't belong in a biography of the squirrel (or the raccoon), but in New York State Department of Environmental Conservation. GenevieveDEon (talk) 14:28, 3 November 2024 (UTC)

Why? Do you redirect murder victim pages to the murders biography? 64.229.210.77 (talk) 17:04, 3 November 2024 (UTC)

Comment for the reviewing admin: The page is currently up for deletion at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Peanut (squirrel) on notability grounds, and arguments are split roughly between "keep / significant reliable source coverage" and "delete / sensationalist and otherwise not notable". Consensus is not overwhelming towards one side or the other at the moment. Departure– (talk) 02:49, 3 November 2024 (UTC)

Are we looking at the same AfD? It should be closed per Snow, as there is no chance of deletion with the sources which have been added. You opened it after saying above "Note that the opening of such a discussion would keep this away from RD.", so the argument could easily be made that you opened the AfD mainly to keep the topic away from RD, which is why a snow close would at least bring the topic back here for a timely decision and not stop it via the AfD route. But, importantly, you also said that if you saw more significant coverage you would change your vote, and much coverage has been added since, so, who knows? Randy Kryn (talk) 03:03, 3 November 2024 (UTC)

I did start the AfD to keep it from RD, I will admit that here. I wouldn't have started the AfD had I not, in good faith, believed the subject was not notable enough for a Wikipedia article, with reasons and policy to back it up. Many of the votes were all keep but they all ignored that the main point was against sensationalism which a few others, including Template:Noping, an administrator, have supported. "Significant coverage" in my eyes means that the coverage clearly demonstrates why the subject is notable, which I have yet to see. What I do see is a lot of articles stating the same, non-notable facts again. Also, this reply appears to me to be moreso an attempt at catching me in a fallacy than it is proving the point that the RD should be posted, and I'd advise against that. Comment on content, not contributors. Departure– (talk) 03:25, 3 November 2024 (UTC)

There's no "catching" involved, just hoping the AfD closes soon so that this discussion has at least a chance at passing or failing without the roadblock (does that happen often here?, the AfD-defense). The only fallacy would be if you come to the point of seeing enough significant coverage and didn't change your vote. Randy Kryn (talk) 03:35, 3 November 2024 (UTC)

Support RD any "person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post", the article, while nominated for deletion, will obviously be kept based on the existing consensus. Article is good quality and this is a relatively high-profiles scandal. Neutral on blurb at this point, but probably would've supported one had it been proposed closer to the event. –DMartin 19:14, 3 November 2024 (UTC)

Template:Hat

• Overthrow the government. 2607:FEA8:929C:A100:288A:44F7:A7CD:CC63 (talk) 04:31, 3 November 2024 (UTC)

I am perplexed by the political slant of a lot of the drive-by commentary on this case. See also: [38]. GenevieveDEon (talk) 12:00, 3 November 2024 (UTC)

A government agnecy went to a private citizens house, seized his pets and killed them because of a complaint to a government agency from a person who doesn't even live there and you're confused as to why people are upset about government overstepping?

Are you being serious? 64.229.210.77 (talk) 13:36, 3 November 2024 (UTC)

I'm serious that 'overthrow the government' is ridiculously hyperbolic in a case of overreach by a local animal control agency. GenevieveDEon (talk) 13:43, 3 November 2024 (UTC)

It's a state agency and again, it was a trained house pet. Are you even American? 64.229.210.77 (talk) 14:21, 3 November 2024 (UTC)

Why does another editor being American or not matter? Comment on content, not contributors, please! Departure– (talk) 14:23, 3 November 2024 (UTC)

Because american government oversight is why the story is notable. So yes, an editor not being american or living in america would struggle to understand why americans are so up in arms about this. It is not about the squirrel, it is about what the squirrel represents. How do you continue to not understand this? 64.229.210.77 (talk) 16:55, 3 November 2024 (UTC)

The argument needs to be made in sufficiently objective terms that a non-American can understand it. We never restrict participation in these debates on the basis of the location or nationality of the participants, and we're not about to start for the sake of a squirrel. Other places have governments, people in other countries have pets, and other nations' and regions' government agencies have, and abuse, all kinds of powers including with regard to pets and livestock. I am fully capable of considering those situations in places other than my own. There's nothing magical about America; it just happens to be where this case occurred. GenevieveDEon (talk) 16:59, 3 November 2024 (UTC)

If that was the case, why are there articles about animals like Harambe, only made famous by their death at the hands of the government?

You will never be able to justify deleting entries that users of Wikipedia want. You should learn what the word editor means because it doesn't mean gatekeeper. 64.229.210.77 (talk) 17:02, 3 November 2024 (UTC)

I'm not American; but I am British, and my instinct outside the US context is to use 'state' to mean 'nationally-run', which is the usual sense here in the UK. I was using 'local' as a contrast to 'national' or 'federal'. And none of that has any bearing on the fact that the political rhetoric here and elsewhere about this case is absurdly hyperbolic. Let's see people get this worked up about, say, maternal mortality in the US. GenevieveDEon (talk) 14:27, 3 November 2024 (UTC)

Pretty sure family values are a main talking point in the US right now. Again, if you lived in the USA, you'd know this. I have a feeling the reason you want this deleted is much more political than you will admit. 64.229.210.77 (talk) 16:57, 3 November 2024 (UTC)

Please play the ball and not the man. Your feelings about my motives are irrelevant. The article itself doesn't say anything about the political overtones of the case. In fact, if a reliable source can be found which adds that detail to the article, I think it would go a lot further to demonstrating notability. If that were done, then this entire discussion would be moot, because it would meet the RD criteria automatically. But I'm also not sure what squirrels and raccoons have to do with family values. That seems to be somewhat out of left field. GenevieveDEon (talk) 17:03, 3 November 2024 (UTC)

Template:Hab

• Blurb As the death is the story. Reminds me of Freya who was posted at ITN and now has a substantial statue. Andrew🐉(talk) 11:56, 3 November 2024 (UTC)

• Oppose blurb, obviously, and let this stand as another example of Andrew's deeply unserious and unhelpful approach to posting at ITNC. GenevieveDEon (talk) 12:00, 3 November 2024 (UTC)

  If you have an issue with Andrew and his approach, ITNC is not the place to air it. Kcmastrpc (talk) 13:35, 3 November 2024 (UTC)

  Template:Replyto Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents is that way. BangJan1999 21:10, 3 November 2024 (UTC)

  I have to agree that Andrew's approach to ITN seems to be deliberately disruptive. He opposed posting a blurb for a national referendum on EU membership in Moldova, but supports a blurb for the death of a previously non-notable squirrel? Could anyone show a better example of systemic Anglosphere bias? AusLondonder (talk) 03:43, 4 November 2024 (UTC)

• Support blurb massive human interest story where onerous government regulation and dehumanization is front and center. Kcmastrpc (talk) 13:36, 3 November 2024 (UTC)

I don't think dehumanisation is particularly at stake in a case where the only casualties are a squirrel and a raccoon. GenevieveDEon (talk) 13:43, 3 November 2024 (UTC)

Well, your opinion here sucks and shows a clear lack of empathy and compassion. I hope the government kills your dog. Kcmastrpc (talk) 13:48, 3 November 2024 (UTC)

I honestly don't hope that, I'm just using it to illustrate a point (in a couple different ways). Kcmastrpc (talk) 13:49, 3 November 2024 (UTC)

I am perplexed at your vehemence, as well as your position. 'It sucks' is no more a rebuttal than 'I wish harm on you or your pets'. GenevieveDEon (talk) 13:55, 3 November 2024 (UTC)

I've already explained that I don't wish any harm upon your beloved fur babies, so I'm sorry you feel that way. My intention was to invoke the humanizing aspect of this story. Kcmastrpc (talk) 14:00, 3 November 2024 (UTC)

• Support RD The culling by the authorities was correct. The squirrel bit a person, so the test for rabies was necessary. Should be mentioned in the article. Grimes2 (talk) 14:31, 3 November 2024 (UTC)

  the person was not bit, they were wearing gloves that squirrels cannot bite through. This is why the article is needed, correcting the misinformation. 64.229.210.77 (talk) 16:58, 3 November 2024 (UTC)

• Oppose both blurb and RD per above. If it was located anywhere else this wouldn't even be a conversation. Wizardman 14:37, 3 November 2024 (UTC)

No blurb is proposed in the nomination (and comments about a blurb just show the depth of commitment that this death is worth an RD), and what does 'located anywhere else' pertain to? Thanks. Randy Kryn (talk) 14:48, 3 November 2024 (UTC)

• Strong Support This is one of the largest news events for the past couple of days, and has significant implications regarding government overreach, misallocation of government resources, and animal rights. --Jay.Jarosz (talk) 15:39, 3 November 2024 (UTC)

This just isn't true. The Spanish floods (and the subsequent heckling of the King), the Novi Sad roof collapse, and the Tory party leadership result (correctly rejected above), are all much bigger stories. This is a flash in the pan. This is someone's fifteen minutes of fame, no more and no less, and we're not obliged to participate in that circus. GenevieveDEon (talk) 15:42, 3 November 2024 (UTC)

none of those things reached north American news cycles. By your own metrics, that means they aren't relevant. 64.229.210.77 (talk) 16:59, 3 November 2024 (UTC)

You seem to be claiming that by my standards, the death of a squirrel in New York is more important than the death of over a dozen people in Serbia. I can assure you that's not what I meant. You seem to be new here - as do several other participants in this discussion - so I suggest you familiarise yourself with Wikipedia's standards before you make absurd assertions about relevance. (The Spanish story is near the top of the CNN homepage right now, so your claim about US news cycles is also plainly false.) GenevieveDEon (talk) 17:07, 3 November 2024 (UTC)

Template:Replyto Your comment that the major Spanish floods did not reach the "north American news cycles" is a complete fabrication and does not reflect well on your arguments nor your news consumption. AusLondonder (talk) 03:47, 4 November 2024 (UTC)

• Oppose Shouldn't even be an article, pure WP:NOTNEWS. Anyone who has posted that this is a major worldwide news story needs to have a serious word with themselves. Black Kite (talk) 16:24, 3 November 2024 (UTC)

  Maybe you should brush up on RD, Template:Tq. Peanut is an animal, with an article that died recently, therefore is important enough to post an RD. Scuba 16:48, 3 November 2024 (UTC)

"An individual human, animal or other biological organism that has recently died may have an entry in the recent deaths (RD) section if it has a biographical Wikipedia article that is not currently nominated for deletion or speedy deletion." Peanut's article is currently nominated for deletion. GenevieveDEon (talk) 16:55, 3 November 2024 (UTC)

Thank you for informing someone who has been here 17 years and is a regular on this page what the rule says. I'm pointing out that I don't believe there should be an article, though it appears that most of the people at the AfD appear to believe that a few news stories are equivalent to notability... Black Kite (talk) 19:49, 3 November 2024 (UTC)

The article was created yesterday, so we are at a stage that we have to evaluate its notability. We've had this problem a few times before where a human being, not yet shown notable, only got coverage due to a accidental death (like getting into a drunk driving accident). --Masem (t) 16:57, 3 November 2024 (UTC)

Support RD - No idea why people are starting deletion discussions in ITN. Also the story around this poor squirrel's death is causing significant media coverage, so this article absolutely deserves to stay. PrecariousWorlds (talk) 16:54, 3 November 2024 (UTC)

Reminder to everyone this is an RD nomination, not a blurb nomination. Any arguments that you would normally make for or against posting as a blurb are irrelevant. See WP:ITNRD. And no, the subject does not need to be human. The only requirements are that the subject has a Wikipedia page, and that the Wikipedia page is not in a miserable state. Disappointed that one of the oppose !voters admittedly only nominated the article for deletion to obstruct this RD nomination on the technicality that it cannot be posted to RD if it is currently nominated for deletion.  Vanilla  Wizard 💙 17:49, 3 November 2024 (UTC)

Because the article was created the same day as the nomination, so its notability can be fully raised as an issue. It implies something along the lines of WP:BLP1E, which is not a reason for creation of a article, in addition to failing to show enduring coverage as required by WP:N and NEVENT. Masem (t) 21:12, 3 November 2024 (UTC)

Template:Small

Support RD We have posted other animals of similar significance and stature before, I think we posted an RD for a duck or something like that a while ago if I'm not mistaken. The story of how the squirrel was taken away is also pretty tragic. This should 100% be posted to RD, but shouldn't get a blurb. Hungry403 (talk) 18:01, 3 November 2024 (UTC)

Nature or circumstances of death are not usually relevant. Provided the article is good enough, it's an RD like any other. I'm not sure if any animal has ever been given a blurb.... "outstanding in his field"? Martinevans123 (talk) 18:24, 3 November 2024 (UTC)

FYI, the death of Knut (polar bear) was blurbed. Also the first hatching of wild white storks in the UK in 600 years was blurbed as a significant birth (as opposed to the usual deaths). It seems likely that there have been other animal blurbs as we have several horse races in ITN/R. Andrew🐉(talk) 00:40, 4 November 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for telling me. I must have missed that one 13 years ago. So maybe not a one-horse race after all. Martinevans123 (talk) 12:12, 4 November 2024 (UTC)

• Weak Support The entire thing seems quite ridiculous, but the relative inanity of a topic is not a condition of its newsworthiness. Our job is not to create an ideal news ecosystem, but to reflect the reality of the extant news ecosystem, as imperfect as that might be. The article seems adequately sourced. Chetsford (talk) 00:03, 4 November 2024 (UTC)
• Strong support because it easily meets WP:ITNRD. Also topic ban anyone who is trying to change ITN here, rather than at the appropriate place. Nfitz (talk) 02:17, 4 November 2024 (UTC)
• Oppose because the article is at AfD without an overwhelming consensus to keep. AusLondonder (talk) 03:49, 4 November 2024 (UTC)

  That seems to be misleading, User:AusLondonder. The "vote" is currently 47 Keep to 14 other (a mix of delete, drafify and redirect) - with increasing coverage, now that President Trump has become involved. Nfitz (talk) 04:59, 4 November 2024 (UTC)

  I don't see the issue. I wouldn't consider that "overwhelming". What Trump thinks is utterly irrelevant to me. AusLondonder (talk) 05:26, 4 November 2024 (UTC)

  It was closed as a snow keep, User:AusLondonder. I'm afraid your oppose has been trumped! Nfitz (talk) 14:23, 4 November 2024 (UTC)

  Ah great. Mr Trump. That should swing it. Martinevans123 (talk) 08:14, 4 November 2024 (UTC)

Clearly demonstrating the great seriousness of the issues he's addressing in the final days of the campaign. I'm very keen to see some analysis as to why this case is such a cause celebre for the American right in particular. GenevieveDEon (talk) 08:43, 4 November 2024 (UTC)

• Comment: the AfD has been closed as snow keep. ObserveOwl (talk) 12:38, 4 November 2024 (UTC)

  Now that the AfD has closed there's no question this article is up to ITNRD standards. Support. Departure– (talk) 15:07, 4 November 2024 (UTC)

• Support as the RD standard is clearly met. I have struck my earlier oppose vote. (I still oppose a blurb, but I think it's clear there's no consensus for that anyway.) GenevieveDEon (talk) 15:15, 4 November 2024 (UTC)

  Who thought it was a hoax? Asking for a friend. Martinevans123 (talk) 15:21, 4 November 2024 (UTC)

Prior to Trump's actual statement on the subject, there was a report of another statement falsely attributed to him. This found its way into the article (twice) and at the time of my earlier comment was a substantial part of the article text. That was the hoax I was referring to. The article has now greatly improved. GenevieveDEon (talk) 15:24, 4 November 2024 (UTC)

Thanks. First it's the squirrels... next it'll be the cows. Just wait and see! Martinevans123 (talk) 15:33, 4 November 2024 (UTC)

Where do I get the milk for my coffee, if all cows are euthanized? Grimes2 (talk) 15:41, 4 November 2024 (UTC)

"South of the Border", naturally. Martinevans123 (talk) 15:52, 4 November 2024 (UTC)

• Support and marking as Ready for RD Article quality being the only criteria, it is ready to go. I note that pretty much all of the opposes are either based on the now closed AfD or WP:IDONTLIKEIT. I thought about posting it myself, but as I commented at the AfD, I will let someone else do it. FTR I Oppose Blurb. Subject does not pass the Mandela Thatcher Kissinger test and the incident itself, while garnering a great deal of coverage, is of minimal long term significance. -Ad Orientem (talk) 16:10, 4 November 2024 (UTC)

  Did he even pass that other test? Martinevans123 (talk) 21:34, 4 November 2024 (UTC)

  I'm quite sure the squirrel test is positive. Is this a case for national emergency? Grimes2 (talk) 22:13, 4 November 2024 (UTC)

  It's quite rare for a squirrel to get rabies and there's never been a case of human transmission in the US. See stats. The racoon was a more plausible risk. Andrew🐉(talk) 10:06, 6 November 2024 (UTC)

• Support RD now that the AfD has, predictably, closed as SNOW keep. The article is in good shape, and that is all that is needed to post to RD.  Vanilla  Wizard 💙 21:14, 4 November 2024 (UTC)
• Posted Stephen 22:10, 4 November 2024 (UTC)
• Pull it's now correctly orange tagged, so we should pull this. Joseph2302 (talk) 11:49, 5 November 2024 (UTC)

  It's not orange tagged. The brief tag was only about the form of execution that was used, which has no outcome on whether Peanut is dead or not. Nfitz (talk) 17:36, 5 November 2024 (UTC)

RD: Rohit Bal

Template:ITN candidate

• Oppose on quality, has a cleanup tag on it. The C of E God Save the King! (talk) 17:48, 5 November 2024 (UTC)

(Posted) Novi Sad railway station canopy collapse

Template:ITN candidate

• Oppose on quality but Support on significance Major accident. Article needs to be expanded a bit. TNM101 (chat) 05:58, 2 November 2024 (UTC)

Support on significance. BilboBeggins (talk) 11:57, 2 November 2024 (UTC)

• Oppose on significance. It is a tragic accident but I fail to see the wider significance. Yakikaki (talk) 13:24, 2 November 2024 (UTC)
• Oppose on quality but Support on significance per TNM101. Flip^andFlopped ツ 17:14, 2 November 2024 (UTC)
• Template:Ping second look re quality?—Alalch E. 18:43, 2 November 2024 (UTC)
• Support Looks better now. There is still room for expansion but there is enough important information for ITN. Another note: some opposition parties have called for resignation of officials and Milorad Dodik (Bosnia and Herzegovina) also expressed condolences to the families and for some reason also to Vučić, so this could be added if I don't do it tomorrow. Vacant0 (talk • contribs) 18:58, 2 November 2024 (UTC)
• Support on quality and significance.—Alalch E. 19:05, 2 November 2024 (UTC)
• Support Deadly disasters due to badly maintained public infrastructure are significant. Article is also in good shape now.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 20:04, 2 November 2024 (UTC)
• Support Sufficient information to get an impression, what happened in this disaster. Grimes2 (talk) 20:10, 2 November 2024 (UTC)
• Support - Major news story about an event with many casualties. GenevieveDEon (talk) 22:55, 2 November 2024 (UTC)
• Posted I'm going to post this as soon as image protection has kicked in. Schwede66 04:06, 3 November 2024 (UTC)

(Posted) New Mayan city discovered

Template:ITN candidate

• Support Surprising and impressive discovery. Article looks in good shape. Martinevans123 (talk) 17:27, 1 November 2024 (UTC)
• Weak oppose on quality at the moment; everything's sourced but it isn't the length of an ideal ITN entry. Support on notability, as this is about as notable as archaeological discoveries get, in terms of things to be posted to ITN, as far as I'm concerned. Departure– (talk) 17:46, 1 November 2024 (UTC)
  • Weak support on quality, support on notability. Article is a much better length and well sourced, and the discovery itself is notable. Altblurb 2 proposed - Yucatan, Maya and Campeche all imply Mexico, so the country probably doesn't need to be specified, and also the name Valeriana is an invented term not used by the Mayans themselves. Departure– (talk) 14:32, 2 November 2024 (UTC)
• Comment only to note this is backed by a peer-review journal article, which is typically a requirement for posting anything from the sciences. --Masem (t) 18:06, 1 November 2024 (UTC)
• Support, this is one of these cool science stories that should be featured. Perhaps modify the blurb to reflect the fact that Valeriana is a contemporary name and not the original name of the city (since some more known places actually have original names known). --Tone 19:44, 1 November 2024 (UTC)

  Quite agree. Have suggested an alt blurb. Martinevans123 (talk) 20:19, 1 November 2024 (UTC)

• Support nice break from politics in ITN. Scuba 20:12, 1 November 2024 (UTC)
• Oppose on quality I'm not against posting this on its merits, but that's not really a quality article. For one, the peer-reviewed work is published as CC-BY-4.0, meaning we could be adding figures from the paper and more. Further, the news stories on this go into more detail about how this was more "by accident" and by a doctorial student rather than a seasoned professor. The article doesn't get into those parts of the coverage. --Masem (t) 20:59, 1 November 2024 (UTC)
• Support per above. The Kip ^(contribs) 21:59, 1 November 2024 (UTC)
• Support on notability, Oppose on quality. Definitely an ITN-worthy event, considering the significance of this discovery and news coverage. However, the article is quite short and needs to be expanded. ArkHyena (it/its) 22:15, 1 November 2024 (UTC)
• Support per above. IDB.S (talk) 23:54, 1 November 2024 (UTC)
• Weak support Article needs to be longer, but I wouldn't be upset if this discovery gets posted. These ruins are a great find! Hungry403 (talk) 00:56, 2 November 2024 (UTC)
• Support — a great discovery that highlights the role of modern technology in science. Trepang2 (talk) 04:17, 2 November 2024 (UTC)
• Support This can help further understand Mayan culture and society. Rager7 (talk) 04:46, 2 November 2024 (UTC)
• Support on notability, oppose on quality The article needs improvement before it can be posted to ITN. --MtPenguinMonster (talk) 06:59, 2 November 2024 (UTC)
• Comment I've put in some work to try to improve the quality of the article to at least cover the main points. It is quite fresh news and no actual field work has been done there yet, so one may struggle to expand it very much further at this point without going into very detailed points taken from the original research report. Yakikaki (talk) 13:13, 2 November 2024 (UTC)

  Well done Yakikaki, much appreciated. Martinevans123 (talk) 18:16, 2 November 2024 (UTC)

  Many thanks!! Khuft (talk) 19:15, 2 November 2024 (UTC)

• Support, the article is both improved and important in several fields of endeavor. Randy Kryn (talk) 14:38, 2 November 2024 (UTC)

Note for the reviewing admin: The city was not known as Valeriana while it was inhabited: from the article Valeriana (Maya city): Valeriana is the name given to the ruins of an ancient Maya city in the Mexican state of Campeche... / ...the site was named after an adjacent freshwater lagoon of the same name. Cheers! Departure– (talk) 14:42, 2 November 2024 (UTC)

Its the current working name until the site can be more thoroughly investigated. Until the more proper name is learned and published, it is completley appropriate to use Valeriana as the name. — Masem (t) 14:55, 2 November 2024 (UTC)

I just feel it's an important distinction to make. The site is Valeriana, and it contains a large city of an unknown name, that has informally become known as Valeriana. I'd just prefer if the blurb didn't imply that it was always called that (specifically the original blurb). Departure– (talk) 15:00, 2 November 2024 (UTC)

• Support per Departure and Tone. Flip^andFlopped ツ 17:15, 2 November 2024 (UTC)
• Support ALT2 Per Departure-. Perhaps another alternative wording could be needed, but this is definitely a notable event. Ornithoptera (talk) 17:27, 2 November 2024 (UTC)
• Article has been expanded and there is an overwhelming support. Posting Alt2- --Tone 18:23, 2 November 2024 (UTC)

(Posted) 2024 Botswanan general election

Template:ITN candidate

• Support Clearly a very significant election for Botswana. --Grnrchst (talk) 11:50, 1 November 2024 (UTC)
• Support The article might still need a few minor adjustments, but I agree this is a huge turning point in the history of the country. Oltrepier (talk) 12:42, 1 November 2024 (UTC)
• Support good length and nicely referenced, the only possible grumble is would be nice to see longer and more detailed aftermath section. Abcmaxx (talk) 12:43, 1 November 2024 (UTC)

• Support besides ITN/R, this is big news for Botswana. Scuba 13:41, 1 November 2024 (UTC)
• Not ready. The results table is blank, the only prose describing the outcome is in the lead (and overly sensational, violating NPOV), there's only a single sentence on the aftermath etc. The material that's already in the article body seems well done, but it needs extending to the results and outcome. Modest Genius ^talk 14:06, 1 November 2024 (UTC)
• Support when results table is filled out, the rest of the article seems reasonably referenced. CMD (talk) 14:07, 1 November 2024 (UTC)
• Support Article is well sourced, support is after the result table is filled completely. TNM101 (chat) 15:40, 1 November 2024 (UTC)
• Wait The table isn't completely filled and the campaign/aftermath sections are stubby. The Kip ^(contribs) 21:58, 1 November 2024 (UTC)
• Support Per above, clearly significant. Both ALT0 and ALT1 are fine. The table is filled in now, which addresses the primary concerns of others. Ornithoptera (talk) 06:49, 2 November 2024 (UTC)
• Support change in head of state and national election. Doubly ITN/R. Suggest picture of Boko if a good one can be found. This post was made by orbitalbuzzsaw gang (talk) 07:50, 2 November 2024 (UTC)

• Support per previous.

-insert valid name here- (talk) 15:29, 2 November 2024 (UTC)

• Support: Besides the historic significance of the result the article is well sourced.

Aficionado538 (talk) 16:13, 2 November 2024 (UTC)

• Posted – Schwede66 19:46, 2 November 2024 (UTC)
• Comment Why is Duma Boko the bolded article rather than the general election article? Is the notion that the government change is the first in the country's history not necessary to be mentioned in the blurb? Ornithoptera (talk) 20:41, 2 November 2024 (UTC)

This has been fixed / updated by Template:Noping. Natg 19 (talk) 23:39, 2 November 2024 (UTC)

RD: Bibek Debroy

Template:ITN candidate

• Oppose Large swathes unreferenced and also reads like a puff piece. Tagged the article, this needs a lot of work. Abcmaxx (talk) 08:40, 1 November 2024 (UTC)
• Oppose Many unreferenced sentences(although one has eight completely unrelated refs). Article also seems to be unbalanced in terms of viewpoints. Needs to be more concise. TNM101 (chat) 15:48, 1 November 2024 (UTC)