Wikipedia:Featured list candidates/Featured log/February 2011
- The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.
The list was promoted by Dabomb87 22:42, 28 February 2011 [1].
- Nominator(s): Another Believer (Talk) 19:25, 14 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I am nominating this for featured list because I believe it meets criteria and closely resembles other Grammy lists with FL status. Second verse same as the first...! --Another Believer (Talk) 19:25, 14 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment I don't think "rap" is a musical genre; it is a recitative "contrived" by Afro-Americans in the United States. I think you need to change quality albums in the rap music genre at the Grammy Awards, a ceremony that was established in 1958 and originally called the Gramophone Awards to quality albums to award music featuring rapping... for example.-- ♫Greatorangepumpkin♫ T 20:22, 14 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Fair enough. The infobox now states that the award is presented for "quality albums with rapping", the lead indicates the same, and I updated the description in the second paragraph based on the category description guide for the 52nd Grammy Awards. --Another Believer (Talk) 21:04, 14 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Resolved comments from Adabow (talk · contribs) 03:15, 17 February 2011 (UTC)[reply] |
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*Comments
Adabow (talk · contribs) 08:21, 16 February 2011 (UTC)[reply] |
- Support nice work. Adabow (talk · contribs) 03:15, 17 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Comments - Per MOS:TEXT#Font size the small html tags shouldn't be used. Afro (Talk) 20:36, 16 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- No, WP:FONTSIZE states "Editors should avoid manually inserting large and small fonts into prose...large tables may require a decreased font size". Adabow (talk · contribs) 03:15, 17 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- "Increased and decreased font size should primarily be produced through automated facilities such as headings or through carefully designed templates." Afro (Talk) 20:31, 17 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Comment The Nationality column could be replaced by a sentence in the lead or a footnote—All winners of the award so far are American.—indopug (talk) 04:41, 17 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Should the column not be kept for the sake of consistency with other Grammy lists? Also, it seems to me that the lead should summarize the information displayed in the table. Without the Nationality column, the sentence included in the lead would need a source to verify that all winners are American. --Another Believer (Talk) 17:25, 17 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- There's no reason to include the column if the only rationale is because the other lists have it. Each article is unique. WesleyDodds (talk) 03:48, 18 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- I agree that each list is different. Do you have a response to the second part of my reply? --Another Believer (Talk) 16:50, 18 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- There's no reason to include the column if the only rationale is because the other lists have it. Each article is unique. WesleyDodds (talk) 03:48, 18 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Resolved comments from The Rambling Man (talk) 18:47, 17 February 2011 (UTC)[reply] |
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Comments
The Rambling Man (talk) 17:52, 17 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
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- Support job done. Nice. The Rambling Man (talk) 18:52, 17 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Support I see no issues.-- ♫Greatorangepumpkin♫ T 11:45, 18 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Support. Ruslik_Zero 16:43, 23 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Comment – Check the publisher of reference 19; there's an s missing from Los Angeles Times.Giants2008 (27 and counting) 23:26, 23 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Done. Good catch! --Another Believer (Talk) 23:36, 23 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
- The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.
The list was promoted by Dabomb87 22:42, 28 February 2011 [2].
- Nominator(s): – Cliftonianthe orangey bit 02:00, 31 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I am nominating this for featured list because I believe it meets the criteria, clear and simple. – Cliftonianthe orangey bit 02:00, 31 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Comments - I'd recommend filling the blank cells with ndashes. Also whats sourcing the table I notice some inconsistencies with the information present for Randy Horton and Ref 5. Afro (Talk) 12:30, 31 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Ref 5 is only there to show he was MVP. The stats for Horton on that page are only for one season, and that is why they don't match up. The stats come from Jose (2003). – Cliftonianthe orangey bit 14:53, 31 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- NASL all-star years should be changed to NASL all-star appearances. The Abbreviations in the key aren't needed as you explain NASL in the lead, also you don't need MVP as its probably better to abbreviate this in the lead when mentioned. Afro (Talk) 12:51, 11 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Okay. – Cliftonianthe orangey bit 13:20, 11 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- I'd like to make the suggestion you use the country name for the Nationality rather than the name for the ethnic group. Afro (Talk) 17:42, 16 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- We already had this below. I really don't see what having the name of the country rather than the denonym adds; it is perfectly possible to access the country by clicking the flag if you don't know that "West German" means, for example. On the other hand, having "English" rather than "England" just looks more tidy to me. I'd agree if we were going to link to national teams (Have "United States" link to the US national team and so forth). I don't see how this is ethnic groups though; it is nationalities, surely? I'll use myself as an example: By citizenship, I am defined as "British", but I do not take this as any ethnic indicator. By the same token, I don't quite see how Werner Roth (for example) being described as "American" disqualifies him from being of a Yugoslavian background. This is all just my opinion, of course. – Cliftonianthe orangey bit 19:52, 16 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- -cough-Ethnic group-cough- Anyway I think MOS:FLAG applies specifically "Accompany flags with country names", though lower on the MOS it does state "Where flags are used in a table, it should clearly indicate that the flags represent representative nationality, not legal nationality, if any confusion might arise." although I'm not entirely sure the latter applies. Afro (Talk) 20:29, 16 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- It's made clear in the text what the flags and nations given refer to, I don't see how any confusion can arise from the status quo. On the subject of "ethnic group", read Google's definitions back to yourself. From those definitions, you could define Britishers, Australians, Rhodesians, New Zealanders, white South Africans, Canadians and even Americans as the same. I don't think it means the same thing as "nationality", and the link you've given actually strengthens my point. – Cliftonianthe orangey bit 21:04, 16 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- We already had this below. I really don't see what having the name of the country rather than the denonym adds; it is perfectly possible to access the country by clicking the flag if you don't know that "West German" means, for example. On the other hand, having "English" rather than "England" just looks more tidy to me. I'd agree if we were going to link to national teams (Have "United States" link to the US national team and so forth). I don't see how this is ethnic groups though; it is nationalities, surely? I'll use myself as an example: By citizenship, I am defined as "British", but I do not take this as any ethnic indicator. By the same token, I don't quite see how Werner Roth (for example) being described as "American" disqualifies him from being of a Yugoslavian background. This is all just my opinion, of course. – Cliftonianthe orangey bit 19:52, 16 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- I'd like to make the suggestion you use the country name for the Nationality rather than the name for the ethnic group. Afro (Talk) 17:42, 16 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- I have no interest in getting in a what defines an ethnic group debate when it has nothing to do with the nomination. I don't see how it strengthens your point "The name of a flag's country (or province, etc.) should appear adjacent to the first use of the flag icon, as not all readers are familiar with all flags" is there a country on Earth called English or Bermudan? Afro (Talk) 21:19, 16 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Eh, what difference does it really make? Okay then. I've changed it now. – Cliftonianthe orangey bit 21:31, 16 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Support - I have no problems with the list and it appears to meet current FL standards. Afro (Talk) 04:01, 20 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Eh, what difference does it really make? Okay then. I've changed it now. – Cliftonianthe orangey bit 21:31, 16 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
*Comments I would rewrite the nationalities to, simply, the name of the country in the "Nationality" column and rewrite the column header to "Country", as it can confuse the reader, like me, if you mean with it, that the players played for that football club (players with mulit-nationalities for example), or something else. I looked at other FL at the Football WikiProject; an I found for example this list.-- ♫Greatorangepumpkin♫ T 13:37, 31 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- I'm sorry, I'm afraid I don't completely understand you. I've always given "English" rather than "England" (for example) for my Featured lists (see here and here). Players with multiple nationalities are pointed out in the text above the table (Stritzl, Roth and Kerr). I don't see how this is confusing. – Cliftonianthe orangey bit 14:53, 31 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Ok, but you may link the nationalities to the countries like in the lists above.-- ♫Greatorangepumpkin♫ T 15:14, 31 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]- You can already get to each country's page by clicking on the flags. – Cliftonianthe orangey bit 16:39, 31 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Oh... forget about my comment.-- ♫Greatorangepumpkin♫ T 16:58, 31 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Don't worry about it. :) – Cliftonianthe orangey bit 17:01, 31 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Oh... forget about my comment.-- ♫Greatorangepumpkin♫ T 16:58, 31 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- You can already get to each country's page by clicking on the flags. – Cliftonianthe orangey bit 16:39, 31 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- I'm sorry, I'm afraid I don't completely understand you. I've always given "English" rather than "England" (for example) for my Featured lists (see here and here). Players with multiple nationalities are pointed out in the text above the table (Stritzl, Roth and Kerr). I don't see how this is confusing. – Cliftonianthe orangey bit 14:53, 31 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment: I could be looking at this completely wrong, but isn't this actually a List of New York Cosmos NASL all-star players? I went to this page expecting to see a list of players, and when presented with such a short list assumed they'd only played one season. Harrias talk 10:54, 6 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Fair point. Added hatnote to make it more clear. – Cliftonianthe orangey bit 19:52, 6 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Resolved comments from The Rambling Man (talk) 18:56, 8 February 2011 (UTC)[reply] |
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Comments
The Rambling Man (talk) 21:22, 7 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
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Comments –
"The side's commercial and on-field success declined during the early 1980s, along with the NASL itself, and entered competitive inactivity in 1985". For this to work grammatically, "it" or "they" must be placed before "entered". Right now, the inactivity reads like it's about the club's success, not the club itself."Examples of these are the former Brazilian international players Pele and Carlos Alberto, erstwhile West Germany captain Franz Beckenbauer; there were many others." The part before the semi-colon seems to abruptly cut out. Try adding "and" before "erstwhile"."or the his birthplace if he is uncapped." Remove "his" or "the".Giants2008 (27 and counting) 22:27, 10 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Okay, all done. Cheers Giants – Cliftonianthe orangey bit 01:48, 11 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Support – Meets FL standards. Giants2008 (27 and counting) 00:22, 16 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Resolved comments from Courcelles 17:00, 27 February 2011 (UTC)[reply] |
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*Comments
Courcelles 05:20, 19 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
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Glad to see that the name issue has been resolved. A minor point about a list that looks in pretty good shape:
- I'm confused about how NASL all-star appearances sorts. In one direction, it sorts by the year: Stritzl (1971) followed by Horton (1971, 1972) followed by Kerr (1972). I'm happy with this, but in the other direction it seems to sort by the number of appearances, rather than the year. Ie, Bogićević, Chinaglia (6) then Beckenbauer (5), etc. I would expect it to sort by the same criteria in both directions, and simply reverse the list.
Otherwise I'm reasonably happy with the list. Harrias talk 13:15, 19 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Okay, now goes by number of appearances in both directions. – Cliftonianthe orangey bit 23:28, 19 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Support, great work. Harrias talk 16:56, 27 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
- The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.
The list was promoted by Dabomb87 23:31, 25 February 2011 [3].
- Nominator(s): Courcelles 08:30, 12 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I am nominating this for featured list because I haven't done one of these in many months. Forgive my rust... only five of these lists left to write in this series. Courcelles 08:30, 12 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Resolved comments from Wizardman Operation Big Bear 20:45, 20 February 2011 (UTC)[reply] |
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*Comments:
Wizardman Operation Big Bear 05:10, 16 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
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- Support with one small comment. Why is the sentence phrased "Larkin was awarded the Roberto Clemente Award in 1993, the Lou Gehrig Memorial Award in 1994, and the National League MVP honor in 1995."? You go award...award...honor, even though the MVP is called the MVP award. I would say either leave it just National League MVP (period) or National League MVP award. Staxringold talkcontribs 17:00, 20 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- This got changed in another rewrite, though using "award" three times in a sentence sounded bad when I was writing it, so that's how it happened. Courcelles 21:04, 20 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Resolved comments from The Rambling Man (talk) 17:09, 24 February 2011 (UTC)[reply] |
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Comments
The Rambling Man (talk) 17:33, 20 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
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CommentSupport –"Sowers MLB debut came in 2006 against Cincinnati." Apostrophe needed at the end of Sowers.Giants2008 (27 and counting) 22:12, 22 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Good catch, done. Courcelles 01:37, 23 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
- The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.
The list was promoted by Dabomb87 23:31, 25 February 2011 [4].
- Nominator(s): Another Believer (Talk) 22:24, 8 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I believe this list meets all FL criteria and closely resembles other Grammy-related lists with FL status. I realize there are currently four lists related to the Grammy Awards at FLC, but none of them were nominated by me! So far in 2011 I have submitted lists that I worked on in 2010 (I still have more ready for FLC), but the World Music list was completed this year so I am trying to earn a few points for the WikiCup competition with this nomination. Thanks, as always, to reviewers (and thanks to other contributors for assisting with the Grammy series)! --Another Believer (Talk) 22:24, 8 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Comment - only major issue is that of the multiple flags. With two or more contributors having different nationalities, the flags are line-broken but the names aren't. Bit odd. The Rambling Man (talk) 18:52, 9 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Do you have a recommended solution? The column width is not set, so text wraps depending on the viewer's screen dimensions. For some people, both artist names may appear on a single line, for others on two lines (hypothetically, on three or more for small screens or similar lists with multiple performing artists). The only solution I can think of is to insert line breaks to command the text to wrap ("Vishwa Mohan Bhatt<br>Ry Cooder", or something similar which includes "and"). For the sake of consensus, I have no problem with the current format, but I am happy to address your concern if you and others feel a change is necessary. --Another Believer (Talk) 19:02, 9 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- It's just I saw this question on another FLC so it seems only reasonable to be consistent and bring it up here! Well then, the solution you suggest is indeed the only visual solution I can think of while still maintaing sortability. Although, having said that, I've heard (on the ACCESS grapevine) that the linebreak thing is purely visual and doesn't help screenreaders. I wonder if there's a good solution for everyone? The Rambling Man (talk) 19:04, 9 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Support Only issue I can see is that The Chieftains need {{sortname}}. Adabow (talk · contribs) 08:59, 10 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- I didn't intend on using the sortname template for group names (only first and last names). Sortname forces the column to sort by last name, but there is no last name here to sort. --Another Believer (Talk) 16:46, 10 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Whenever things a sorted alphabetically word such as 'a' and 'the' are disregarded. Thus, please use the template. Adabow (talk · contribs) 08:54, 23 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Added sort command for The Chieftains. --Another Believer (Talk) 16:27, 23 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Whenever things a sorted alphabetically word such as 'a' and 'the' are disregarded. Thus, please use the template. Adabow (talk · contribs) 08:54, 23 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment- Man, I hate to bring this up again in another FLC. I have to agree that without the flags, it didn't look that great-- but I'm still a bit worried that the flags might violate WP:ACCESS per TRM's concerns, and that they overshadow the artist in the list. Instead of looking at it as Ry Cooder's award, I might look at it as an American's, which might not be a truly accurate representation of him as an artist. For example, on a film list, would we put Bruce Willis's name down with a German flag next to it because he was born in Germany? I'm really not sure how to resolve this issue though, I really do think the flags look rather nice, but I don't want to give the wrong impression to readers. Nomader (Talk) 22:25, 10 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Thank you for your comments, Nomader. I'm not sure what to make of the Bruce Willis example--one would display an American flag to represent Bruce Willis because he is American, not a German flag just because he was born overseas. Honestly, I don't know how to respond. I don't have a problem with the flags, and consensus here appeared to show a preference for the flags. You are certainly welcome to express concerns, but I am not really sure of a solution (if there is one). Perhaps other/different reviewers will comment on this FLC. --Another Believer (Talk) 23:28, 10 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Yep, that's what I hope too. I'm not going to oppose because of it, these Grammy lists are actually really well done from what I've seen and I actually feel that the flags are aesthetically pleasing even if they end up not being appropriate. Either way, I've looked through the list and I see no other issues. After the whole flag issue is discussed a bit more (or not) by other editors, I'll be more then prepared to support. Fantastic list, Another Believer. Nomader (Talk) 08:47, 11 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Comment The capitalization of non-English album articles should be address. Per WP:ALBUMCAPS, if an album or song article is not in English, then the rules of capital letters for that language applies. Use this for any language you need to know about. Magiciandude (talk) 05:56, 12 February 2011 (UTC)
I recant my above statement since this needs to be addressed on the talk page for the consensus. Magiciandude (talk) 02:03, 14 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- I fundamentally disagree with this Wikiproject "recommendation". Please use over-riding English Wikipedia guidelines and policies, this isn't Spanish Wikipedia. For those who wish to discuss this further, I've opened a talk here. The Rambling Man (talk) 17:20, 13 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment Why is "Web 2.0 Conference" not linked?-- ♫Greatorangepumpkin♫ T 11:47, 18 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Done. Actually, I linked "Web 2.0 Conference" to "Web 2.0 Summit" (its new name). Thanks! --Another Believer (Talk) 16:07, 18 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- OK then I see no more issues. Support from me.-- ♫Greatorangepumpkin♫ T 17:52, 18 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Support – Meets FL standards. Giants2008 (27 and counting) 22:19, 24 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
- The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.
The list was promoted by Dabomb87 23:31, 25 February 2011 [5].
- Nominator(s): Salavat (talk) 12:29, 7 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Well, same as the 2009 list, and basically the same as the 2007 and 2008, here is the 2010 list. Salavat (talk) 12:29, 7 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Resolved comments from The Rambling Man (talk) 17:20, 10 February 2011 (UTC)[reply] |
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*Link "International Ice Hockey Federation" in the lead.
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Resolved comments from The Rambling Man (talk) 17:18, 16 February 2011 (UTC)[reply] |
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*Min is really Min:sec isn't it?
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- Comments - I don't understand why there are 3 different tables for the key. Ref 4-6 as well as all the Stats and Rosters need a format parameter. Afro (Talk) 00:43, 13 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- The three different tables block out different items, one for statistics, one for positions, and one for the two general items that need explaining. Format has been added to all references mentioned. Salavat (talk) 04:20, 13 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- What's the problem with keeping it to one table? Afro (Talk) 21:53, 13 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- No problem. Hows it look now? Salavat (talk) 02:19, 14 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Why isn't the Legend included in the TOC? You mention in the lead the Czech Republic won the tournament but mention nothing of a runner-up, why?. Afro (Talk) 15:21, 20 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Added and mentioned. Salavat (talk) 15:43, 20 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Support - I have no issues with the list. Afro (Talk) 11:53, 21 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment - None of the images have alt text. --Mo Rock...Monstrous (leech44) 17:45, 16 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- According to my last FLC it had been removed as a featured list criteria back in April 2010. Has there been a change since? Salavat (talk) 07:00, 17 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Not that I know of. I'm so far behind that I didn't realize it had been removed.--Mo Rock...Monstrous (leech44) 16:10, 17 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- As I understand it, alt text is part of the MOS, so a list that didn't have alt text for its images would be in violation of criterion #5. Powers T 23:53, 20 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Well whether its required or not ive gone and added it in. Salavat (talk) 07:28, 21 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- As I understand it, alt text is part of the MOS, so a list that didn't have alt text for its images would be in violation of criterion #5. Powers T 23:53, 20 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
CommentSupport –Only thing I see is that "the" should be added before "tournament's most valuable player and top goaltender...".Giants2008 (27 and counting) 22:23, 19 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Fixed. Salavat (talk) 03:32, 20 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Support Can't find anything to gripe about. Courcelles 13:26, 24 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
- The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.
The list was promoted by Dabomb87 23:31, 25 February 2011 [6].
- Nominator(s): —Chris!c/t 00:20, 16 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I am nominating this for featured list because I believe it meets all the requirements.—Chris!c/t 00:20, 16 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Resolved comments from The Rambling Man (talk) 22:19, 20 January 2011 (UTC)[reply] |
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Comments
The Rambling Man (talk) 20:38, 17 January 2011 (UTC) —Chris!c/t 03:36, 18 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
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Comments – Note that I gave a talk page review here, so most of my comments have been taken care of already.
- The lead is quite short, at two small paragraphs. Is there anything more that can be added to it?
- Not really. And I don't think the lead is that short when comparing this to the one at 2008 Summer Olympics medal table—Chris!c/t 22:12, 20 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Is there anything citing China's medal table-leading streak (eight in a row)?Giants2008 (27 and counting) 21:25, 18 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- I am tempted to
opposeuntil a "map" of the medal winners such as the one in 1984 Winter Olympics medal table is added. Nergaal (talk) 01:04, 2 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- I don't think you should oppose because it lacks a map. A map would be nice but it is not required. With that said, I will try to make one, though it would take some time.—Chris!c/t 23:07, 4 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Added—Chris!c/t 05:16, 5 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Support but please add a reamark that China won about 40% of the gold medals. I opposed because in a short medal table like this one, one could argue that it is a cfork of a medallist table. Also, since there are only 9 non-medal-winning countries, it might be appropriate to list them somewhere. Nergaal (talk) 18:26, 5 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Ok, done—Chris!c/t 20:16, 5 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Support but please add a reamark that China won about 40% of the gold medals. I opposed because in a short medal table like this one, one could argue that it is a cfork of a medallist table. Also, since there are only 9 non-medal-winning countries, it might be appropriate to list them somewhere. Nergaal (talk) 18:26, 5 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Added—Chris!c/t 05:16, 5 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- I don't think you should oppose because it lacks a map. A map would be nice but it is not required. With that said, I will try to make one, though it would take some time.—Chris!c/t 23:07, 4 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Resolved comments from The Rambling Man (talk) 11:22, 15 February 2011 (UTC)[reply] |
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Comment the only thing holding me back now is the accessibility of the map. You use colours without symbols, and there doesn't seem to be any alt text? The Rambling Man (talk) 18:34, 7 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
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- "Athletes from 35 NOCs (Kuwait participated under the Olympic flag due to the suspension of its NOC)[2][3] won medals, leaving 9 without a medal, and 29 of them won at least one gold medal." – it is not particularly clear which noun is being referred to in the numerical list towards the end: 9 and 29 could refer to either the individual athletes, or the NOCs: can you clarify the sentence.
- Similarly, the last sentence in the first paragraph: "Macau and Bangladesh won their first Asian Games gold medal from wushu and cricket, respectively." – Not sure if medal should be plural or not here, and you need a comma after medal regardless.
- When I try and sort by 'Total' in the table, the page goes a bit funny, and tries to redirect me to somewhere else (undefined) on the page. (It adds a hash to the end of the address bar, as if internally navigating).
- On the map, doesn't host country really represent the host city?
- Ref 2 could do with a publication date (5 January 2010). (Check other references for possible missing information too)
- Ref 32 is in the form YYYY-MM-DD, while all other references are DD MONTH YYYY
Harrias talk 20:30, 18 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Fixed all except sorting issue. I don't know why it does not work for that particular column. It could be a bug or something.—Chris!c/t 06:30, 22 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Look like other medal table lists (e.g. 1984 Winter Olympics medal table) have the same problem. So, this is likely a site-wide bug.—Chris!c/t 06:34, 22 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- It is because of "colspan". It works now after I removed it. Ruslik_Zero 16:53, 23 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Look like other medal table lists (e.g. 1984 Winter Olympics medal table) have the same problem. So, this is likely a site-wide bug.—Chris!c/t 06:34, 22 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Fixed all except sorting issue. I don't know why it does not work for that particular column. It could be a bug or something.—Chris!c/t 06:30, 22 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Support. Ruslik_Zero 17:13, 23 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Support. Harrias talk 18:32, 23 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Resolved comments from Courcelles 18:33, 25 February 2011 (UTC)[reply] |
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*Comments
Courcelles 18:36, 24 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
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- Support Courcelles 18:33, 25 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
- The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.
The list was promoted by Giants2008 19:36, 22 February 2011 [7].
- Nominator(s): Sasata (talk) 02:35, 2 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Armillaria is a genus of destructive wood-eating fungi that causes extensive losses to forestry industries around the world—but it also produces attractive mushrooms, many of which are edible, and some even glow in the dark. It seems there are no other "List of all species in a genus"-type FLs, so I'm thinking this will serve as sort of a template for future efforts of this kind (at least in the fungal realm). This is my first FLC, so go hard on me, it'll make it easier for future noms :) Sasata (talk) 02:35, 2 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment !! Sasata, great conqueror of GAN and FAC, has come to the last untouched land of FLC! :) Two things off the bat. (1) Is this a complete list? If not it needs {{dynamic list}}. (2) What do you think about a color-indicator for the "transfer" species as opposed to those originally placed in the genus? The parentheses is a good starting point, but doesn't stand out a ton. Staxringold talkcontribs 03:02, 2 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Hi Stax. I have yet to wade in the waters of FS and GT/FT, so there's more virgin territory for me... 1) I'm not sure about the lingo: the list is "complete" in that it gives all the species we know of, but "incomplete" in that more species may be discovered and eventually added to the list. 2) Hadn't thought of color coding like that, I'll experiment a bit and get back to you. Is there a guideline for color usage somewhere? Sasata (talk) 03:11, 2 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- I'm not sure, WP:COLOR deals more with colored text. Best I can say is look at other lists that use colors, it's probably best to stick with safer pastel-y colors so there's nothing too in your face (see the key in World Series Most Valuable Player Award for most of the common list colors I've seen). As for completeness that's actually an interesting question. I'd say that so long as this is every known species that would be complete (since you couldn't possibly add anything more), though I could see the argument the other way (particularly if there's a big chance there are more unknown species out there). Staxringold talkcontribs 03:28, 2 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- I really don't think formally separating "original" and "combined" species (the technical word) makes for a useful distinction. It would possibly be the first article to ever do that. The closest I know are some Paleontology article that describe the fate of species that USED to be in the genus being discussed. Circéus (talk) 03:42, 2 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- I agree; whether a species was originally in this genus or in another is merely an accident of taxonomic history that is not going to be of interest to many users of this list. Ucucha 14:48, 3 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Resolved comments from RexxS (talk) 06:00, 4 February 2011 (UTC)[reply] |
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* Please have a think about presentation, conformity with MOS and accessibility:
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Support. The issues I raised have been satisfactorily addressed. --RexxS (talk) 01:40, 4 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Thanks for your comments, RexxS. I wasn't aware of the accessibility issues before, and it is something I will certainly keep in mind for future FLC submissions. You're right there should be some consistency among lists that fall under the purview of the Tree of Life project; I may initiate a discussion there sometime about the general format I used in this article. Sasata (talk) 05:21, 4 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Images are all legit, copyrightwise, but I note that this one is not identified to species level on the image page, nor is it used in the species article. J Milburn (talk) 10:44, 2 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- I added the epithet to the image page. The species article is still too short to warrant another pic... but I promise to make it grow soon! Sasata (talk) 16:35, 2 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Some thoughts:
- I guess there's no prescribed way to do this yet, but I wonder whether a "notes" column with material like edibility (if edible, poisonous or toxic), bioluminescence and any major "human interest" (medicinal/other use, state mushroom, that sort of thing) would be useful. I guess that's a big ask, so, as much as anything, I'm just wondering why you decided to include the things you did, as opposed to anything else. What about common names?
- I guess I'm still figuring out the balance between what to include on a list like this, and what to leave to the article page. Five of the species have common names (the others just aren't well-known to have been assigned them yet), five species are bioluminescent, another couple are interesting as candidates for "world's largest organism". Having a separate column for any one of these individually would result in a lot of blank spaces, but something like a "notes" column might work. But maybe this info should be instead included in the "Notes" section? Opinions anyone? Sasata (talk) 16:35, 2 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Perhaps split notes like "The original spelling of the species name was cepaestipes" out from the references?
- Done. Sasata (talk) 16:35, 2 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Mention the name "Honey fungus" somewhere?
- Now in the first sentence. Sasata (talk) 16:35, 2 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- You don't mention the type species anywhere- I'd say that'd be a great lead illustration as represenative of the whole list.
- That's a great idea, done. That also freed up room below to add an image of another species. Sasata (talk) 16:35, 2 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Do we have full names for "Volk and Burdall"?
- Yes, given in full the previous paragraph. Sasata (talk) 16:35, 2 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- You also don't mention the authority/naming for the genus as a whole, which I feel would have a place here.
- Good idea, now in the second sentence of the lead. Sasata (talk) 16:35, 2 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I've done little reviewing at FLC, so I'm not certain what I'm looking for, but I hope these thoughts are helpful. J Milburn (talk) 10:44, 2 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Support. This is well researched, sourced, displayed and illustrated. The question of what precisely to include hangs over our head, but I think we need a general discussion about fungal species lists, rather than hashing it out here- it's not fair to oppose based on guidelines which don't exist. I think a notes column would be a nice addition, but I'm certainly willing to support without it. J Milburn (talk) 23:42, 2 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Thanks for helping out JM! Sasata (talk) 06:14, 3 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Support. All issues addressed; looking good. Ucucha 04:14, 8 February 2011 (UTC) Comments:[reply]
- I think lists such as this should also include species formerly placed in the genus. That would make the list a lot longer, but also more useful to people who find some old Armillaria name and want to figure out what it refers to.
- Yikes. I'm not against doing the work, but it seems to me that that would change the list from the tidy summary of current species it is now to a bloated monstrosity with over 300 entries and a greater number of references. Does Wikipedia really need that? Can't we assume that someone who's researching an old Armillaria name has the knowledge to check Index Fungorum or MycoBank for themselves? Sasata (talk) 15:22, 3 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Yes, I didn't think I'd make myself popular with this suggestion. I can also see why we wouldn't want to include this information, but I'd like to hear what other people think. We don't have resources like Index Fungorum for all groups; for example, there is a huge number of species formerly placed in Oryzomys, but no centralized resource where all can be found. Thanks for the fixes on the other issues. Ucucha 20:32, 3 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Personally, I think that if such lists were to be created, they would be best kept at a separate "list of former X species" page, cross-referenced to the appropriate articles. Circéus (talk) 22:47, 3 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- That seems reasonable; I might try that with Oryzomys and see how it works out. Ucucha 23:52, 3 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
In the last reference (Volk & Burdsall, 1995), the "(PDF)" should come after the link, not after the year.
- I just removed the format=PDF parameter; I don't know how to force the order of the template output. Sasata (talk) 15:22, 3 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
The actual list is now in a section titled "Key", which doesn't make much sense—perhaps add a section "List"?
Ucucha 14:46, 3 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Added a section header "Species". Thanks for commenting, Ucucha. Sasata (talk) 15:22, 3 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Since NABS X has not been formally named, shouldn't the year be omitted? For the other species, it's the year of formal naming, not the year the species was first recognized. Ucucha 18:32, 4 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Good point. I removed the year from the column and added it to the footnote. Sasata (talk) 18:49, 4 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment References should be numerically ordered.-- ♫Greatorangepumpkin♫ T 18:12, 4 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Done. Sasata (talk) 18:32, 4 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Actually, there was a very good reason for their being "out of order", which was detailed in the Key. Circéus (talk) 20:20, 4 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Yeah, undone. Headcold means brain is not working at full capacity. Sasata (talk) 20:58, 4 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Support (yesterday I just mentioned that the references are not sorted but didn't look at the key, unfortunately :/, but now my deep review is finished) Very good list about one of my favourite mushrooms (:P), but it's a little bit strange, I thought there would be more species; are you sure they are complete? Anyway, I support this great list :D!-- ♫Greatorangepumpkin♫ T 09:51, 5 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Thanks, and yes, I'm sure :) Sasata (talk) 16:26, 5 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment – Overall, a nice piece of work. Just two small things from me: I wish the References column was shortened to Ref(s) (would save some white space), and that the Distribution column could be made sortable. Giants2008 (27 and counting) 22:27, 5 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- I may just be being picky, but I don't like the idea of the section header being abbreviated. How about as a compromise I center the refs so the whitespace is left/right equalized? I'm not convinced the distribution column should be sortable; since most of the cells are a list of items, what use could it be to the reader to have species list sorted by the first location in the distribution list? Sasata (talk) 00:50, 6 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- "saving whitespace" is a boogeyman: at 800x600, the saving hardly changes the number of lines on the first and third column that gets broken, and it obviously makes virtually no difference at all on tiny screens. I also agree sorting the distribution cells is pointless since it only sort one element out of several within them. Circéus (talk) 00:55, 6 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Comments this has had a fair bit of interest and support, and it seems I'm a little late to the party, but in any case, my comments, and forgive me if they've been discussed already.
- "First treated by" this is expert-speak for me, why would anyone "treat" a mushroom? Needs to be accessible to all. Simliar with "assigned generic rank". What do these mean to the layman?
- " with a cottony or membranous veils that typically forms " singular/plural/singular
- Name col should be Name/authority in the key.
- What if there's a name in parentheses and a name (or more) out of parentheses?
- I don't like refs out of numerical order but I appreciate the key telling me why. I'm not sure why the ref's shouldn't be numerical though.
- In the authority entries, there are a lot of "Dessur.", "Courtec." (abbreviated names), why?
- NABS X has no year. At least put an en/em-dash there in the year col.
The Rambling Man (talk) 22:05, 7 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- It's not the mushroom, it's the genus that's being "treated" as a subject. It might me mildly academic, but it is not jargon as far as I'm aware.
- fixed
- It should have linked to author citation (botany) from the start, but admittedly the wording was less than ideal.
- I'm not sure why Sasata decided to put the original publications in a separate columns instead of putting them in the first and third (there doesn't seem to be much space saving or aesthetic improvement to justify it), but I respected it out of WP:RETAIN, if anything else.
- This is the standard format across botanical literature and Wikipedia when giving author citations. (if it were running, as in the second sentence of the article, there would be no abbreviation, of course). Giving the full names (which is not always possible), would not be an improvement (notwithstanding the space issues).
- fixed.
- Circéus (talk) 22:34, 7 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- To answer why I did it that way, it's because I saw that someone else had done the refs that way, so I just copied the format. Thinking about it some more, the extra column for refs seemed unnecessary, so I removed it. How does it look now? I'm thinking that the name/authority column looks a bit crowded, and and tempted to move the authorities to a separate (unsortable?) column (as suggested by RexxS). Any objections? Sasata (talk) 23:41, 7 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Seems good to me. 04:14, 8 February 2011 (UTC)
- Done. Sasata (talk) 15:41, 8 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- and made sortable. Circéus (talk) 16:13, 8 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- and can be made more fully accessible by marking up row headers thus: [10] and then setting "plainrowheaders"[11] if you don't like the bold, centred row headers.
- I've self reverted because I don't want to interfere, but you can see how it's done. Most folks don't see much difference, but you're enabling a screen reader to navigate up and down the columns of the table and hear which row they are on each time. It's not mandatory, but worthwhile. Cheers. --RexxS (talk) 17:47, 8 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- I really don't think that works; in fact I would very much oppose it. I would only ever do that if the table was a "cross-reference" (e.g. comparison of Internet browsers), or an election result table. This is clearly not such a case. Circéus (talk) 19:38, 8 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Look, the marking up of row headers to make a table accessible is mandated by MOS at MOS:ACCESS#Data tables, so you'd better get used to it. It is a necessary feature of our best work that they be accessible to all. I've been willing to accept that it is something that editors need to become acquainted with, and have not pressed the point where the structure is unsuitable (or even if it would require a massive overhaul of a table), but in a case such as this where the upgrade would be trivial, I don't feel that I can support promotion. --RexxS (talk) 22:13, 8 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- You are completely misunderstanding the nature of headers: they serve to identify the data in the corresponding row/column. If you need to put a header on your headers (as you would have us do), then it is not a header! By your metric the first cell in every single table in Wikipedia should be a header, that's preposterous! Circéus (talk) 22:50, 8 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- I'll suggest that I'm not misunderstanding the nature of headers. At present the table has column headers, but no row headers. I'm simply suggesting that it would improve the table's accessibility to have row headers as well. If you want an outside opinion, here's a book that demonstrates exactly the technique I'm recommending: Web accessibility. You could read the tutorial for how JAWS reads tables at Tables with JAWS and MAGic to get a better idea of why having both column and row headers improves accessibility. If you want the source of these, they derive from WCAG, and there is a criterion H63 for HTML 4 that you can refer to. Please have a look at some of these, and consider whether there might be more to my suggestions than you may have initially recognised. I'd be delighted if we can reach some agreement here. Regards, --RexxS (talk) 17:53, 9 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- You are completely misunderstanding the nature of headers: they serve to identify the data in the corresponding row/column. If you need to put a header on your headers (as you would have us do), then it is not a header! By your metric the first cell in every single table in Wikipedia should be a header, that's preposterous! Circéus (talk) 22:50, 8 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Look, the marking up of row headers to make a table accessible is mandated by MOS at MOS:ACCESS#Data tables, so you'd better get used to it. It is a necessary feature of our best work that they be accessible to all. I've been willing to accept that it is something that editors need to become acquainted with, and have not pressed the point where the structure is unsuitable (or even if it would require a massive overhaul of a table), but in a case such as this where the upgrade would be trivial, I don't feel that I can support promotion. --RexxS (talk) 22:13, 8 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- I really don't think that works; in fact I would very much oppose it. I would only ever do that if the table was a "cross-reference" (e.g. comparison of Internet browsers), or an election result table. This is clearly not such a case. Circéus (talk) 19:38, 8 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- and made sortable. Circéus (talk) 16:13, 8 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Done. Sasata (talk) 15:41, 8 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Seems good to me. 04:14, 8 February 2011 (UTC)
- To answer why I did it that way, it's because I saw that someone else had done the refs that way, so I just copied the format. Thinking about it some more, the extra column for refs seemed unnecessary, so I removed it. How does it look now? I'm thinking that the name/authority column looks a bit crowded, and and tempted to move the authorities to a separate (unsortable?) column (as suggested by RexxS). Any objections? Sasata (talk) 23:41, 7 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
[Undent] According to the page you link, we do not need header cell to have an accessible table here: scope
is legitimate to use even in the absence of a header cell (and in this case, I still firmly believe full-on header, where or not they are visible, are unnecessary). I'll happily apply scope
to the "name" columns. I'd like to further note that this whole arguing spans from the fact that from the point of view of basic HTML, making the data tabular is not a formal necessity (hence the arguing about the best way to apply a table to the list): a table just happen to be the only way to get sortable data on wp: (and we view sortability as particularly desirable). If sortability could somehow be obtained without the use of a table, the data would not be tabular, have no formal need to be tabular, and the entire argument would be moot. Circéus (talk) 18:10, 9 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- I don't disagree with any of the points you make. You can indeed apply scope to data cells (such as those containing names) and make the table accessible, but then somebody will have to come along when we move to HTML5 and change the markup to make them header cells. There's really no reason not to mark them up now – after all, if it is semantically a row header (identifying the data in that row), then I would think marking it up as TH would be sensible.
- If you consider the data structure, a table implements a list of lists in a structured way. It also possesses the advantage that we can navigate it 'vertically' i.e up and down a column – and we go to all this trouble to allow blind users the same facility. --RexxS (talk) 18:50, 9 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Support (might as well ) Baring people noting extra ameliorations that can be implemented or errors, I don't see how we can improve it further. Circéus (talk) 16:13, 8 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose: The main table fails WP:WIAFL#5, specifically MOS:ACCESS#Data_tables, a top-priority requirement. --RexxS (talk) 22:13, 8 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]Opposewe need to take WP:ACCESS seriously. I don't see a problem with what RexxS has suggested, and he has an established track record of being very open-minded and fair with this sort of thing. I suggest you work with him rather than against him. Your accusations of his suggestions being "preposterous" are just short of bad faith, and as far as I can see, there's absolutely zero visual difference in the format RexxS has suggested against the format you prefer. All you had to do was use RexxS's edits; he'd done all the hard work for you... The Rambling Man (talk) 17:02, 9 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]- Ultimately I consider the decision is Sasata's and I will defer to it, but I still believe that the suggestion is one of the most misguided approach to "accesibility" I've ever seen when we have so many articles that, by the same accessibility token, should never be allowed to have table at all to begin with, and the suggestion is made obsolete simply by changing the ordering of the columns (further demonstrating that no, in many, many cases there is absolutely no need for a column of header). Look at the tables in the example here, the first two are clearly similar to our examples and according to the spec, the first column does not need (I argue must not have) header cells; the second table illustrated (in the next section) has even less headers than you would expect (I would have put the dates in headers). The specs to me clearly implies that one should be conservative in the use of double sets of header. Circéus (talk) 17:43, 9 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- I may be wrong but I think you've misunderstood what's going on here. RexxS has responded above, it's worth taking this advice seriously. The Rambling Man (talk) 17:56, 9 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Ultimately I consider the decision is Sasata's and I will defer to it, but I still believe that the suggestion is one of the most misguided approach to "accesibility" I've ever seen when we have so many articles that, by the same accessibility token, should never be allowed to have table at all to begin with, and the suggestion is made obsolete simply by changing the ordering of the columns (further demonstrating that no, in many, many cases there is absolutely no need for a column of header). Look at the tables in the example here, the first two are clearly similar to our examples and according to the spec, the first column does not need (I argue must not have) header cells; the second table illustrated (in the next section) has even less headers than you would expect (I would have put the dates in headers). The specs to me clearly implies that one should be conservative in the use of double sets of header. Circéus (talk) 17:43, 9 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Jumping in the middle here, but Rexx helped with my nom very easily and it didn't really change the physical nature of the list at all, so why not include it? I have no reason to disbelieve what he and others have told me about this making things easier for screen-readers, I have 0 knowledge on that front. Staxringold talkcontribs 18:08, 9 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- <technical warning> No, Circeus is quite right to point out that under the current HTML spec, it is acceptable to specify <td scope="row"> (or | scope="row" in wiki-markup). He is mistaken only in extrapolating that to forbid <th scope="row"> (or ! scope="row" in wiki-markup). In fact, HTML4 specifies scope as an attribute for both TD and TH, so either are acceptable. The problem is that the upcoming HTML5 spec will no longer allow scope on TD, so with an eye to the future, it is better guide editors into using ! scope="row" as that is valid now and will be valid in the future. I should add that "plainrowheaders" only works on ! scope="row", so if you want to mark up row headers differently, you can't use it.</technical warning> Hope that helps --RexxS (talk) 18:31, 9 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- You blatantly misrepresent what I said. I meant that for our purpose "scope" on a normal cell was sufficient and that a header cell was not semantically required for accessibility (not to mention a different styling is unwarranted no matter how subdued it is). Circéus (talk) 18:36, 9 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Yes, I still agree: "scope" on a normal cell (TD) is sufficient for accessibility. The only two things we seem to disagree on is that I think the semantic markup for any table header is TH; and that I think using TD scope="row" is a bad idea because it will be disallowed in the next version of HTML. You'll find quite a few editors who will insist that the semantic difference between header cells and data cells has to be indicated by a difference in styling. But I respect your view that you don't want to see a different visual style, and I'd personally be happy to go along with it. Nevertheless, MOS:ACCESS#Data tables is the consensus guideline that requires ! scope="row" and the debate at MediaWiki Talk:Common.css/Archive 12#Bold row headers has decided the default behaviour of the "wikitable" and "plainrowheaders" classes. Neither of these are set in stone, and I'm sure that you would be able to make a reasoned argument if you wished to see them changed. --RexxS (talk) 01:50, 10 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- I've implemented the accessibility changes as suggested by RexxS. Sasata (talk) 18:59, 9 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Support. The issues I raised have been satisfactorily addressed. --RexxS (talk) 01:50, 10 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
- The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.
The list was promoted by Giants2008 19:36, 22 February 2011 [12].
- Nominator(s): Patriarca12 (talk) 21:55, 22 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I am nominating this for featured list because I feel it does meet the FL criteria as it has been modeled after successful college football coach lists such as List of Texas Tech Red Raiders head football coaches and List of Texas Longhorns head football coaches Thanks! Patriarca12 (talk) 21:55, 22 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Resolved comments from The Rambling Man (talk) 18:16, 30 January 2011 (UTC)[reply] |
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Comments - generally fine, but some technical issues I find with sortable tables and Safari...
The Rambling Man (talk) 17:53, 27 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
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- Support good work. The Rambling Man (talk) 17:39, 14 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Resolved comments from NThomas (talk) 21:57, 31 January 2011 (UTC)[reply] |
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Comments
NThomas (talk) 23:08, 29 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Additional comments
NThomas (talk) 06:20, 30 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
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Support - Everything looks good. Another great CFB HC list. NThomas (talk) 21:57, 31 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Comments from ChrisTheDude (talk · contribs)
- Shouldn't the first sentence read "The Alabama Crimson Tide football program is a college football team that represents the University of Alabama"........?
- Corrected
- "the team has played more than 1,100 games in their 116 seasons" - mixing singular and plural when describing the same thing
- Corrected
- "he accumulated a 232 wins" - should that "a" be there......?
- Corrected
- "Jennings B. Whitworth has the lowest winning percentage of those who have coached more than one game with .067" - suggest adding a comma after "game"
- Corrected
- Now bear in mind here that I know nothing about college football, so I may be misunderstanding here, but if the team did not "join a conference in the traditional sense" (whatever that means) till 1922, should the coaches prior to then not all have a dash in the CCs column like Beaumont does..........?
- I have gone through the seasonal archives and added SIAA victories to the coaches' totals as Bama was part of the SIAA between 1895–1922.
Anyway, hope all that helps..... -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 09:06, 3 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Thank you for taking the time to take a look at this as the comments are greatly appreciated and now addressed. Patriarca12 (talk) 23:41, 3 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Comments –
Add "an" in "for .824 winning percentage."
- Done
One of the coaches won his only career start. Therefore, Bear Bryant is technically not the all-time winning percentage leader. If this causes a problem for the lead, you can qualify the stat like when the lowest winning percentage is discussed.
- Corrected
Typo in note 6: "ineligiable".Also, I'm not crazy about the flow in "the NCAA ruled Alabama to". Maybe try "the NCAA ruled that Alabama must..."? There's a similar usage in note 8.
- Done & addressed additional comment
Add "for" to "Thus the official NCAA record 1993 is 1–12."
- Done
Giants2008 (27 and counting) 00:23, 4 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Thanks for the comments! All have been addressed. Patriarca12 (talk) 00:43, 4 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Support - all looks OK now -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 09:04, 4 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
WeakModerate support a real minor one, but I think it's a little odd to link Saban in a list of "led to postseason" teams, and then mention he's the current coach as the last sentence of the lead. Perhaps consider moving the fact he's the current coach from the end of the lead to the start of the lead, and therefore avoid repeating his first name twice in the lead (including once in the lead image). Everything else is spot on as far as I can tell on a re-visit (although I still hate #=number of coaches, it isn't, it's just chronological order of coaches). The Rambling Man (talk) 19:04, 7 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Good call. I placed the sentence in question in the lead as it does make more sense there than at the end since he is the current head coach. As for the # column, it does serve a purpose more than just chronological as Kines served only in an interim role and the university lists Saban as the 27th head coach, not the 28th. Thanks again for the comments! Patriarca12 (talk) 19:26, 7 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- No bother. I agree the hash column is needed but the title in the key is the odd thing for me. It's more like "Order of coach (not including repeats) in coach history" which is clearly awful, but it really isn't "number of coaches"... do you get my drift? The Rambling Man (talk) 19:40, 7 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- I hear what you're saying. I changed the word to "order" and added a more detailed description to the note. I know it's not perfect, but it is better now I think. Thanks again! Patriarca12 (talk) 23:05, 7 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Resolved comments from Courcelles 17:53, 14 February 2011 (UTC)[reply] |
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*Comments
Courcelles 19:55, 7 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
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- Support Courcelles 17:53, 14 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Comments from KV5
- "that represents the University of Alabama in the West Division of the Southeastern Conference (SEC) in the National Collegiate Athletic Association (NCAA) Division I Football Bowl Subdivision." - this is a lot of prepositional phrases in a row. I suggest a re-word because the current first sentence looks like a run-on and should be split.
- Cleaned-up
- "27 head coaches, and one interim head coach" - these are comparable quantities, per MOS:NUM, change "one" to 1
- Done
- "Wade captured"... "Saban captured" - repetitive, change one of these to won
- Done
- "Saban all won" - should be each won
- Done
- "Bryant is the leader in ... most wins" - I know that's not what you actually wrote, but that's the way the modification ends up. Change "most wins" to games won
- Done
- "wins... wins" - change to games won, with 232 victories
- Done
- "prior to ever coaching" - besides the split infinitive, the meaning doesn't suffer by removing "ever", so it's extraneous; remove
- Done
- Keep your decimal places in the table the same; if all the winning percentages are extended to three decimal places (.750), then so should be 1.000.
- Done
- Replace daggers with {{dagger}}, using alt text per ACCESS concerns.
- Done
- Also in the ACCESS vein, all rows should be marked up with the coach as the row header. The data table tutorial can help you with this.
- Done
Hope these comments help. — KV5 • Talk • 00:42, 14 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Thanks for taking the time to comment on this. It is much appriciated! Patriarca12 (talk) 02:36, 14 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
'Support, spot on: nothing from me at all. Harrias talk 23:31, 18 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
- The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.
The list was promoted by Giants2008 19:36, 22 February 2011 [13].
- Nominator(s): – Cliftonianthe orangey bit 09:43, 20 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I am nominating this for featured list because I have made it to the standards of my other featured soccer lists (see Luton Town F.C. and follow the links). – Cliftonianthe orangey bit 09:43, 20 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Resolved comments from The Rambling Man (talk) 18:39, 20 January 2011 (UTC)[reply] |
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Comments
The Rambling Man (talk) 17:56, 20 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
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Comment – Just one quick one: the all caps in note 4 should be removed.Giants2008 (27 and counting) 22:22, 1 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Comments from WFC
Nice job overall, and I like what you've done with the general references.
Resolved comments from WFC |
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*There should probably be a sentence or two somewhere on the differences between regular football and six-a-side.
Will have another look tomorrow for any final bits, but can't see myself not supporting this. —WFC— 05:15, 2 February 2011 (UTC)[reply] |
- I'm not sure how best to do this without unbalancing the list, so I'll leave this open-ended. But I'm wondering if there needs to be something on the league structure, particularly between 1976 and 1980. Regional divisions followed by playoffs to decide the national champion is simple enough to cotton on to. But when you throw conferences into the mix, the typical non-US football fan might not grasp it naturally.
- I've included the Conferences under the play-offs. I think that it's clear that the "regular season" refers to division, and that anything after that is regarded as "post-season". It's a fair point, though. – Cliftonianthe orangey bit 03:48, 2 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Yeah, I think the table copes well. Like I said, it's not something I can put my finger on. Maybe it's just the fault of the NASL for making what is effectively a localised league --> regional knockout --> East vs West Championship game sound more complicated than it really is. I think we're on the same page, but I'll leave this visible in case someone else has an idea. —WFC— 05:15, 2 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- I've included the Conferences under the play-offs. I think that it's clear that the "regular season" refers to division, and that anything after that is regarded as "post-season". It's a fair point, though. – Cliftonianthe orangey bit 03:48, 2 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Puerile banter between WFC and – Cliftonianthe orangey bit |
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*Sorry for having to use the word Conference ;)
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Support, with the proviso that if someone else raises a concern over the playoff structure, a footnote or similar is added. —WFC— 22:48, 2 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Resolved comments from The Rambling Man (talk) 19:16, 9 February 2011 (UTC)[reply] |
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Comments a second look, some niggles...
The Rambling Man (talk) 18:54, 7 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
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- Support my concerns addressed. The Rambling Man (talk) 17:38, 14 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Support no major issues from me: though I think 'points' in the table should itself link to something explaining the points system, not just the top-scorer heading. Harrias talk 23:22, 18 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Okay, done. – Cliftonianthe orangey bit 23:27, 18 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
- The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.
The list was promoted by Dabomb87 22:48, 18 February 2011 [15].
- Nominator(s): Nightw 16:11, 3 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I am nominating this for featured article because I believe it to be a concise, comprehensive list that can be a good example for other lists on Wikipedia. It is fairly simple, but in my opinion, it effectively briefs the reader on the subject, while providing well-placed links for further information. If nothing else, this nomination will be a fantastic opportunity to identify areas for improvement. Peer reviews were conducted in September and October. Nightw 16:11, 3 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Should be at Wikipedia:Featured list candidates, as it's very definitely a list. Ealdgyth - Talk 16:14, 3 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Moved. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 16:18, 3 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Thanks! Sorry... Nightw 16:21, 3 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Moved. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 16:18, 3 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Restarted, old version.
- Note I have restarted this nomination because the nomination was quite long and the consensus was unclear. Dabomb87 (talk) 22:48, 19 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Comments on accessibilty: Accessibility of the table is good. In theory a caption would be an improvement, but in this case where there is only one table and it is the only element in its section, it could be argued that a caption would be redundant.
The images in the Standard column would benefit from alt text (as the filename is read out otherwise). --RexxS(talk) 00:37, 20 January 2011 (UTC)[reply] - Support: Issues above now resolved. --RexxS (talk) 23:22, 22 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- I still think this should be ordered by the monarchs column, not the monarchies one. Nergaal (talk) 03:57, 20 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- It's sortable, so you can have it ordered by any column you like. I must admit, though, that I'd slightly prefer that the State column contained the row headers, as that piece of information uniquely identifies the row, whereas the name of the monarch does not. --RexxS (talk) 05:02, 20 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- It originally was done that way, but I wanted to highlight the actual item being listed, which is the monarch...especially since it is not allocated the leftmost column. Nightw 17:12, 20 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- It's sortable, so you can have it ordered by any column you like. I must admit, though, that I'd slightly prefer that the State column contained the row headers, as that piece of information uniquely identifies the row, whereas the name of the monarch does not. --RexxS (talk) 05:02, 20 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Support -- ♫Greatorangepumpkin♫ T 10:48, 20 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Support – My comments were all resolved before the restart, and I don't have any new ones. Giants2008 (27 and counting) 23:28, 20 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Support: Looks a lot better. Perhaps an image of Queen Elizabeth II would add to the page, alongside the existing Japanese Emperor and Dutch Queen? Mainly with the association with 'monarch' that she has being monarch of many English-speaking countries around the world. —JeevanJones (talk) 17:31, 21 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment - Despite the length of certain paragraphs the Lead I'm pretty sure conflicts with WP:LEAD#Length. Since no work was being done regarding the use of language templates, I have taken the liberty and removed them and added the correct parameter, I've also replaced the month name with the numerical value to keep it consistent with the rest of the references. Afro (Talk) 08:58, 22 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Thanks for fixing those up. I generally prefer the language icons, and was under the impression that this was okay, but if there's a community preference to use the parameters instead, then I won't object. I've merged two of the smaller paragraphs in order to comply with length standards. Nightw 16:01, 22 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Support - I have no issues and the issue wasn't that the pages are in a different language it was just there's no need to use the Language icons when there is a perfectly usable parameter in the template, it makes it easier for editors to edit the reference also. Afro (Talk) 02:19, 23 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
The only thing from my original comments that is still unresolved is the huge amount of WP:EGG links. A key should be added to explain where all of these go, as it's not immediately evident (or in some cases, even evident in passing). — KV5 • Talk • 16:33, 22 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]- Are there any instances in particular you can give, just as an example? Nightw 19:44, 22 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Sure. Just as an example, in the "Australia" row, you've linked "Queen" to List of Australian monarchs, "Constitutional" to Monarchy of Australia, and "Hereditary" to Line of succession to the British throne. It's not self-evident as to where these links actually go. At face value (without following the links or rolling over to see their destination), I would assume that "Queen" has been underlinked (because it's only linked in some of the Elizabeth II entries, not all, that "Constitutional" links to an article on constitutional monarchy, and that "hereditary" links to an article on primogeniture or some such (the "succession" links are possibly ok as is, but the "type" links are really a problem). — KV5 • Talk • 18:17, 23 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Ah, I see. Thanks. So what is the best way for the linking to be explained? In simple prose above the table? Nightw 06:58, 24 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Honestly, I would prefer that the links be removed, but that's probably not the optimum solution. I would use a tabular key rather than simple prose, as I think it's clearer. — KV5 • Talk • 23:03, 26 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Ah, I see. Thanks. So what is the best way for the linking to be explained? In simple prose above the table? Nightw 06:58, 24 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Sure. Just as an example, in the "Australia" row, you've linked "Queen" to List of Australian monarchs, "Constitutional" to Monarchy of Australia, and "Hereditary" to Line of succession to the British throne. It's not self-evident as to where these links actually go. At face value (without following the links or rolling over to see their destination), I would assume that "Queen" has been underlinked (because it's only linked in some of the Elizabeth II entries, not all, that "Constitutional" links to an article on constitutional monarchy, and that "hereditary" links to an article on primogeniture or some such (the "succession" links are possibly ok as is, but the "type" links are really a problem). — KV5 • Talk • 18:17, 23 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Are there any instances in particular you can give, just as an example? Nightw 19:44, 22 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for your patience! What about this kind of thing? Nightw 04:55, 27 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Monarch | Name of monarch, preceded by title, with link to list of predecessors. | Since | Date of assumption of throne; coronation date listed in footnotes. |
---|---|---|---|
House | Name of royal family, with information on bloodline. | Type | Form of monarchy, with link to information on role of the monarch within government. |
Succession | Method or pattern of succession, with link to current line of succession. | Standard | Heraldry attributed to the relevant monarch or monarchy. |
N/A | Denotes where specific field is not applicable. | — | Denotes where data is not available. |
- That's a good start, but keep in mind that the key has to meet ACCESS standards too. Rowheaders and the like. — KV5 • Talk • 12:08, 27 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Does this work? It might be preferable to have just two columns instead of four. I don't know if this affects accessibility. Nightw 12:32, 27 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- A much better bet for maximising accessibility would be two columns. And to be honest, a table with two columns can get away without row or column headers; anyone using a screen reader won't get lost navigating around such a table, but you could still put them in as an example of good practice. Optionally, the legend would fit perfectly as a list from a semantic view, but a list isn't as pretty as a table. --RexxS (talk) 01:03, 28 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Just noticed all the markup in there. It's not needed:
- Does this work? It might be preferable to have just two columns instead of four. I don't know if this affects accessibility. Nightw 12:32, 27 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- That's a good start, but keep in mind that the key has to meet ACCESS standards too. Rowheaders and the like. — KV5 • Talk • 12:08, 27 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Legend Key Description Monarch Name of monarch, preceded by title, with link to list of predecessors. Since Date of assumption of throne; coronation date listed in footnotes. House Name of royal family, with information on bloodline. Type Form of monarchy, with link to information on role of the monarch within government. Succession Method or pattern of succession, with link to current line of succession. Standard Heraldry attributed to the relevant monarch or monarchy. N/A Denotes where specific field is not applicable. — Denotes where data is not available.
- Have a look at the wikitext. The only presentational formatting that I've removed is the italic as I don't think its use is justified per WP:ITALIC. --RexxS (talk) 01:32, 28 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Okay! Added. Thanks for the help, RexxS. Nightw 12:50, 1 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Have a look at the wikitext. The only presentational formatting that I've removed is the italic as I don't think its use is justified per WP:ITALIC. --RexxS (talk) 01:32, 28 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Additionally, alt text is needed for the royal standards. — KV5 • Talk • 16:37, 22 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]- Done. Nightw 19:44, 22 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- My comments have been satisfactorily resolved. — KV5 • Talk • 12:56, 1 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Done. Nightw 19:44, 22 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Resolved comments from The Rambling Man (talk) 22:59, 26 January 2011 (UTC)[reply] |
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Comments - glad to see the patience of the nominator and the diligence of the reviewers in coming back. A good example of WP:DEADLINE...
The Rambling Man (talk) 16:17, 23 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
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- Oooh, support, very neat list. Staxringold talkcontribs 00:56, 2 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Comments:
- Some of the footnotes seem extraneous: Do we need all of the ones that go into detail on the royal houses? That's not immediately needed for this list, especially the historical information. The notes 5, 6, 10 (see next note), part of 12 (the first part is useful, the 'branch of' less so), the clan part of 21, 24, 31, 34, possibly 44, 45, and the bishop portion of 49. These all seem like they would be better handled in the articles on the houses, rather than crowding up the footnote section.
- The house for Cambodia, is this correct? It would seem more accurate (to me) to say Varman, rather than Norodom, especially since Norodom does not direct to any house or dynasty. But I am not the expert. :) --Golbez (talk) 21:25, 3 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Yes, this is the surname adopted by the descendants of Norodom I. It distinguishes them from those of Sisowath, whom are also eligible for succession under the constitution. I suppose this should be further explained in the footnotes, which I suppose ties in with your first comment. I'll get to that in a moment. Nightw 04:13, 9 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Ah, so it's a weird situation. Hrm. If that's their surname, then yes, I suppose that does go in the house column, with an explaination as to what dynasty it's part of... here, let me express my questions specifically:
- Yes, this is the surname adopted by the descendants of Norodom I. It distinguishes them from those of Sisowath, whom are also eligible for succession under the constitution. I suppose this should be further explained in the footnotes, which I suppose ties in with your first comment. I'll get to that in a moment. Nightw 04:13, 9 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Note 3: "The House of Windsor is a line of the House of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha, which itself is a branch of the House of Wettin. "Windsor" is the official name adopted by the royal family of the United Kingdom since 1917." I don't think we need the last sentence; renames a century ago belong in the house article, not here. I was originally going to say we didn't need the bit about "House of Wettin", either, but since another royal family is in that line, it may make sense to include it.
- Note 5: A tribe, without further elucidation, is just a tribe, without any particular royal leanings. Unless the king of Bahrain and emir of Kuwait are always from this tribe, it seems extraneous. To me, as an ignorant westerner, it almost sounds like linking two U.S. Presidents together because they were both from Ohio. Maybe Arabian tribes have more meaning than that, I don't know, which is why I bring it to you to justify the note. :)
- Note 6: After re-examining note 3 as mentioned above, I'm actually fine with this staying, to show that the two houses are linked.
- Note 10: Now that you've explained, it makes more sense, and yes, the note should explain it as you did. :)
- Note 12: Since no other monarchy presently is in the House of Oldenburg, I don't think this needs to be mentioned here... does it? I mean, how often does someone refer to Harald V as being in the House of Oldenburg? Probably as often as people mention Elizabeth II of the House of Wettin? :) Gosh, now as I'm writing these I'm starting to doubt my call for trimming them, but I think that, unless the "part of the house of ..." is relevant to the list (that is, another monarchy is also in said line), it should be relegated to the house article.
- Note 16: This is a case of clan/tribe being allowed as a house name, since the name of the kingdom actually is "The Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan". However, I'm not entirely sure we need it, as it falls under the "rename?" issue that maybe doesn't belong on this list? Hrm.
- Note 20: The Basotho is simply the demonym for people from Lesotho, so the first sentence redundant. As for the second half, see my points on note 16.
- Note 23: Since the House of Nassau is also that of another monarchy, this I suppose should stay.
- Note 30: See note 23
- Note 33: Another tribe, the "largest of all Arab tribes". Unless there's some rule that all Qatari emirs must be from this tribe, it seems extraneous.
- Note 38: The data seemed extraneous on first glance, but wow, that's certainly a unique way to choose a king: Choose his mother! So yeah, that's definitely useful information.
- Note 43: No other house is in this dynasty so maybe it doesn't need to be mentioned?
- Note 44: Since note 46 specifies that the ruler is always from Al Nahyan, it's relevant to explain the tribe a little bit, so this one seems okay.
- The Pope: I was wrong and you're right, it does appear his primary office is that of Bishop of Rome, and from that all other things follow. Maybe his note could be rearranged "As Sovereign of the Vatican City, by virtue of being Bishop of Rome." (even though both links go to the same place, Pope :P)
- I apologize if I'm getting into too much detail, just wanting to make sure it's all good. :) --Golbez (talk) 14:55, 9 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Not at all, the content has developed with very little collaboration anyway, so it's good to finally get another's ideas. I've fixed up note 3; with that extra information gone, I was thinking it could now probably be combined somehow with note 6...? I've fixed note 48, and I'll also expand the explanation on note 10 shortly.
- You are right in saying that this information should lie in the house articles, and in most instances this is the case. In most cases, however, it is necessary to mention the main house in addition to the branch, as these are the actual houses they belong to from a purel genealogical perspective. The branches, in most cases, are just given a different name because they're not the seniormost descendants of that house. Harald is a good example. Because he descends the third son of Christian III, rather than the eldest, he represents a junior branch, but the House he belongs to is still Oldenburg (see more information). In most sources (example), his House will be identified as "Oldenburg", with the branch following in parentheses. Nightw 08:00, 10 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Ahaaa. Okay, I think I see now. Yeah, my only experience with monarchies has been UK and Japan, and they haven't had to deal with such issues in recent history. So these footnotes are mostly to allay confusion an educated reader might have; "He's not part of Oldenburg, he's part of X!" or what not. I can live with that. Though most of the time I would say drop the "House of Wettin" bit from Windsor, except for the fact that another house is also in that, so they're linked. So that explains the houses; what about the tribes? :) --Golbez (talk) 14:28, 10 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- While tribal affiliation is very important to Arab society, you're right in saying that this probably is a bit extraneous here. The rulers would always come from these tribes, but only because the ruling clan (or "house" in this context) can only belong to one tribe. I'd probably only keep the Utub reference, as it shows the familial ties between the families of Kuwait and Bahrain, which are quite close. Regarding Lesotho, the note was added mainly for search purposes of alternate spelling ("Moshoesh", "Moshwesh"), but this probably isn't a big issue, and can be removed. Nightw 09:25, 11 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Ahaaa. Okay, I think I see now. Yeah, my only experience with monarchies has been UK and Japan, and they haven't had to deal with such issues in recent history. So these footnotes are mostly to allay confusion an educated reader might have; "He's not part of Oldenburg, he's part of X!" or what not. I can live with that. Though most of the time I would say drop the "House of Wettin" bit from Windsor, except for the fact that another house is also in that, so they're linked. So that explains the houses; what about the tribes? :) --Golbez (talk) 14:28, 10 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Done. Nightw 13:17, 12 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- And thus, support. --Golbez (talk) 18:38, 17 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- I apologize if I'm getting into too much detail, just wanting to make sure it's all good. :) --Golbez (talk) 14:55, 9 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Keeping this open pending resolution of Golbez's comments... Dabomb87 (talk) 22:13, 8 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
- The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.
The list was promoted by Dabomb87 22:48, 18 February 2011 [16].
- Nominator(s): Nomader (Talk) 22:45, 17 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I am nominating this for featured list because I feel it now meets the FL criteria. I've based it off of my work at List of Washington Capitals seasons and other FL NHL season articles such as List of New Jersey Devils seasons and List of New York Islanders seasons among others. Glad to be back at FLC and I look forward to addressing your comments and concerns. This is also a WP:WIKICUP nomination. Nomader (Talk) 22:45, 17 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment the most obvious thing is that "hockey" in the first sentence should be expanded to ice hockey, or at the very least piped to [[ice hockey|hockey]] because to me, and probably a substantial chunk of the world's population, the sport called "hockey" does not involve blokes in armour on ice skates...... -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 09:14, 20 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Good point, I never actually thought of that before. Changed. Nomader (Talk) 13:45, 20 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Resolved comments from The Rambling Man (talk) 15:53, 23 January 2011 (UTC)[reply] |
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Comments
The Rambling Man (talk) 19:14, 20 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
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Comments from RexxS:
- Accessibility of symbols: As there are numerous screen readers in use (as well as text-only browsers for those with limited bandwidth), the safest symbols to use are those you find directly on a standard keyboard, i.e. the first half of the codepage for Latin-1. As you know, that doesn't give you much choice for use as a key, although I'd suggest the '#' symbol as a replacement for the '¤' symbol. As TRM says, italic text will not be distinguished from normal text by a screen reader like JAWS, unless the user is warned beforehand to turn on announcements of presentational markup. I see you've moved away from using italics anyway for denoting Stanley Cup winners, and replaced it with a dagger. I'd agree with using a symbol in preference to italics, but the '†' symbol is read as a question mark by some screen readers. To overcome that, we've created a template {{†}} or {{dagger}} that uses an image with alt text to produce the symbol and to give a screen reader sensible text to read out. The alt text defaults to 'dagger', but you can use it to actually read out something like "Stanley Cup champions". I've made that change for you to have an example to work from on other articles. Feel free to change it if you'd prefer different alt text, or just the default. There's also a template {{‡}} or {{double-dagger}} if you ever need it. Templates for other symbols could be created on request. Hope that helps. --RexxS (talk) 19:17, 21 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Thanks for the help, it's really appreciated; I've never really looked at lists from this accessibility point of view before. I've changed '¤' symbol to '#' per your suggestion in the key, and I'm going to go ahead and retrofit the other featured hockey lists. I'll let you know if I have any other access questions on your talk page. Nomader (Talk) 21:07, 22 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
CommentSupport –The key says Stanley Cup-winning seasons are denoted with italics, yet I see no italics for 2004. If you're not going to use italics due to accessibility concerns, don't advertise them in the key.Giants2008 (27 and counting) 22:14, 27 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Good point, I went ahead and removed them from the key. Sorry that it took me a few days to get back to you, my internet went out on my computer there. Nomader (Talk</spanEastern>) 22:54, 30 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Resolved comments from KV5 |
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Hope these comments help. — KV5 • Talk • 13:04, 2 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
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- Support — KV5 • Talk • 14:47, 12 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Weaksupport perhaps you be good enough to be consistent with spaces (or without) before notes (e.g. there's a space before the dagger in the 03/04 season but no space before the * and Eastern, and ^ and Southeast), and NYT is relinked in the refs while ESPN isn't relinked, so consistency there would be good, otherwise all good. The Rambling Man (talk) 18:43, 7 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]- I went ahead and fixed the spaces. Looks like I missed the daggers when I went through it and removed them before. I also wikilinked ESPN for the second time. Thanks for the comments! Nomader (Talk) 22:43, 7 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
- The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.
The list was promoted by Dabomb87 22:48, 18 February 2011 [17].
- Nominator(s): MASEM (t) 23:35, 14 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Yet Another (something) Hero list. Follows the same format and approach as the other Hero song lists. --MASEM (t) 23:35, 14 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Dab/EL check - No dab or dead links in the article. GamerPro64 (talk) 17:34, 15 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Resolved comments from The Rambling Man (talk) 19:07, 27 January 2011 (UTC)[reply] |
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Comments
The Rambling Man (talk) 17:41, 19 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
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- I think the table in the setlist section can serve some references. Nergaal (talk) 09:43, 20 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Current refs 1 & 2 are the references for the set list. -MASEM (t) 14:25, 20 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment: The list looks pretty straight forward. Here are the issues that stood out to me:
- The lead is very heavy in the gameplay of the game. I would think that not so much is needed to get the gist of it. What about including some licensing info from the game article or brief summary of some of the song artists?
- What makes these references reliable?
- The Boombox
- PALGN
- VG247
- Other than the above, the list looks good. (Guyinblack25 talk 19:59, 27 January 2011 (UTC))[reply]
- In the past, I've been asked to explain the gameplay in some detail to give an idea what's involved without forcing the reader to go to the main game article to find out. The amount given here is consistent wiht that information. As for a summary of the artists, I have given who some of the noted mix artists are; there are no real good sourced example lists I could pull from the individual songs that would lead to editors trying to add their own personal favorites. And there's not a whole lot known on the licensing.
- As for the sources:
- The Boombox is a part of AOL Music, and they received the exclusive setlist reveal.
- PALGN is well-established video game news site that is more focused on the PAL release region (Australia and UK), and the only significant reliable source that the VG project uses dedicated to that area. Note here that the source is only used to establish an opinion.
- VG247 has recently been audited by the VG project to assure that all the primary editors of that news site are established journalists from other sources, thus bringing their reliability here. --MASEM (t) 16:12, 28 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- No worries about the song artists.
- I think a little licensing info would be better than none.
- I found the VG247 discussion.
- I tried to dig up discussion on PALGN, but most gave pretty flimsy rationales. However, I don't see much problem here because it is used solely from its opinion.
- I'll check back later on the lead. (Guyinblack25 talk 17:38, 31 January 2011 (UTC))[reply]
- Yea, for PALGN, it's opinion is one of the few we have from that region of the world. I wouldn't necessarily take their word on facts, but reviewing opinion is ideal. Still looking to see if I can find licensing. There might be something. --MASEM (t) 14:52, 10 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Support: My issues have been addressed, and I believe the lists meets the FL criteria. (Guyinblack25 talk 17:00, 18 February 2011 (UTC))[reply]
- Yea, for PALGN, it's opinion is one of the few we have from that region of the world. I wouldn't necessarily take their word on facts, but reviewing opinion is ideal. Still looking to see if I can find licensing. There might be something. --MASEM (t) 14:52, 10 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Update - As Activision just announced their shutting down Guitar Hero and DJ Hero development, they have confirmed there will be no more DLC. In terms of how this affects this features list, I've added a statement about the discontinuation of future DLC but otherwise shouldn't change how this list is approached. --MASEM (t) 14:52, 10 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Support - I was going to list these things as comments, but these are such minor semantics that I'm just going to go ahead and support. I have no doubt that you'll address these, and if you don't, I'll just go ahead and add them myself after the FLC.
- List of songs in DJ Hero calls the DJ Hero series a "spin-off of the Guitar Hero series", while the list for the second game calls DJ Hero "an expansion of the Guitar Hero series". I think I like the first term better-- it really is more of a spin-off than an expansion.
- At the sentence which ends with "add freestyle effects", the period comes after the reference. The reference should be after the punctuation.
That's all I've got. Nice work, Masem. Nomader (Talk) 05:31, 18 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Both fixed, thanks. --MASEM (t) 17:35, 18 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
The sentence that ends "add freestyle effects." seems grammatically incorrect to me: can you read through it and try and make it clearer?"In certain sets that feature an article, the player will perform as that artist's avatar.." – I assume 'article' is meant to be 'artist'?- In Setlist
'N/A' sorts at the bottom for Artist1 and Artist2, which I like: but it sorts alphabetically in Venue and Setlist: can it sort at the bottom in these too? - In Downloadable content, 'N/A' sorts between The 900 Number and Traffic for Song 2 title, and alphabetically for Artist 2, can it sort to the bottom on these too?
Good work overall on the list! Harrias talk 17:48, 18 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- I have fixed the first two sentences. The N/A thing is not working out as easily as I expected (in the table, its sorting those on the letter 'n' which is why you get what you're seeing) - I can't add the {{sort}} template around it without screwing up the table. Going to see if the n/a template can include a default sort phrase. --MASEM (t) 17:59, 18 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Yeah, I've had plenty of arguments with {{sort}}! Not the end of the world if it can't go to the bottom, but it'd be preferable. Harrias talk 18:17, 18 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Would replacing "N/A" with an emdash or endash fix the problem? (Guyinblack25 talk 20:38, 18 February 2011 (UTC))[reply]
- Most likely yes. If that's acceptable, then I will do that. --MASEM (t) 21:57, 18 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- It would be perfectly acceptable with me; with numbers it tends to make the situation worse, but with words you should get away with it! Harrias talk 22:09, 18 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Most likely yes. If that's acceptable, then I will do that. --MASEM (t) 21:57, 18 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Would replacing "N/A" with an emdash or endash fix the problem? (Guyinblack25 talk 20:38, 18 February 2011 (UTC))[reply]
- Yeah, I've had plenty of arguments with {{sort}}! Not the end of the world if it can't go to the bottom, but it'd be preferable. Harrias talk 18:17, 18 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Support regardless of where N/A sorts, the list is in my opinion up to FL standards. Harrias talk 22:09, 18 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
- The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.
The list was promoted by The Rambling Man 18:18, 17 February 2011 [18].
- Nominator(s): --TIAYN (talk) 20:00, 11 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I feel this list meets the FL criteria. And please either support or oppose the list; I don't want the list to fail because of lack of reviewer interest.
Doing Sp33dyphil (Talk) (Contributions)(Feed back needed @ Talk page) 06:53, 12 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- I highly doubt that the table is correct.-- ♫Greatorangepumpkin♫ T 17:08, 12 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Why? --TIAYN (talk) 17:09, 12 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Why is the right table so odd and so much space above, why not just merge into one table, like here, with an extra column "Vice president"-- ♫Greatorangepumpkin♫ T 18:08, 12 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Because there were no vice heads of state before 1977, that's why the header is not located at the start. Even if i did include it at the top header box, what would i do with all the none-existing posts? It's much easier this way, or at least I think it's much easier this way. --TIAYN (talk) 18:25, 12 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- You need to have something at the top. When I do governor lists and have a state which didn't have a lieutenant governor for a long time, at the top I still say "Lieutenant Governor" with a footnote explaining that the post didn't exist until 19xx. --Golbez (talk) 21:50, 12 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Done --TIAYN (talk) 22:07, 12 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- You need to have something at the top. When I do governor lists and have a state which didn't have a lieutenant governor for a long time, at the top I still say "Lieutenant Governor" with a footnote explaining that the post didn't exist until 19xx. --Golbez (talk) 21:50, 12 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Because there were no vice heads of state before 1977, that's why the header is not located at the start. Even if i did include it at the top header box, what would i do with all the none-existing posts? It's much easier this way, or at least I think it's much easier this way. --TIAYN (talk) 18:25, 12 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Why is the right table so odd and so much space above, why not just merge into one table, like here, with an extra column "Vice president"-- ♫Greatorangepumpkin♫ T 18:08, 12 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Why? --TIAYN (talk) 17:09, 12 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Resolved comments from Arsenikk (talk) 18:40, 18 January 2011 (UTC)[reply] |
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;Comments:
I, and probably many with me, find the topic of Soviet statesmanship rather confusing, with steady changes to the titles and positions. The article starts off with discussing the definition of the head of state since 1977. Perhaps a softer start would be better, such as saying eleven people have been head of state and four vice. Then discuss the various offices which were regarded as such. I also find that the lead overfocuses on the presidency (which lasted only a year) and less mention is given to the older positions. Presenting the various offices chronologically would also be appreciated.
There might be some more, but as I've basically asked you to rephrase part of the lead, I'll wait that before doing a copyedit of it. Overall, it seems like you're getting the hang of listmaking :) Arsenikk (talk) 22:51, 12 January 2011 (UTC)[reply] The lead is better, so I'll be a bit more specific:
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- Support Arsenikk (talk) 18:40, 18 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Resolved comments from The Rambling Man (talk) 17:28, 19 January 2011 (UTC)[reply] |
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Comments (and I won't !vote because you ask, I'll decide when I want)
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- Comment My screen view the table a little bit false. (I'll try to explain :P) in the sixth row there is a small line that goes to the "Vice heads of state" column a little bit, but not entire. The right border doesn't comprise the table completely and if I scroll down and up, the pitch between the border end and the column border is variable large. And in the last row in the second table half there is a white space between the column header "Vice President (1990–1991)" and "Vacant 15 March 1990 – 27 December 1990". Could you fix this problems, please? I don't know if all screens view this like mine. Thank you.-- ♫Greatorangepumpkin♫ T 22:49, 22 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- I would, but there is one problem, I don't understand what the problem is! --TIAYN (talk) 23:03, 22 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- I fixed it. But I question the need for a lot of the styling... why not let the browser and standard sheets do their work? :) --Golbez (talk) 21:36, 3 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Comment once again this nomination appears to have stalled. TIAYN, have you notified the various relevant wikiprojects that this nomination needs input, reviews, opinions? If we don't see some movement soon I think we'll need to archive the nomination. Let me know. The Rambling Man (talk) 18:23, 7 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- I'm working on it! --TIAYN (talk) 18:28, 7 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Support -- ♫Greatorangepumpkin♫ T 18:38, 7 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Comments - Would it be easier to split off the Vice head into its own table? the huge Rowspan just looks terribly unprofessional. Afro (Talk) 18:41, 8 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Fixed --TIAYN (talk) 22:14, 8 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- You use Rowspan with the change of the title of the office I was thinking whether it'd be better to provide a note in the term of office row in the first column this new title is given. Afro (Talk) 12:34, 11 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- I must admit, I don't understand your point. --TIAYN (talk) 17:44, 11 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Sorry if my comment isn't clear enough, what I mean is you use the rowspan to designate when the name of the office was changed, I was wondering whether it'd be better to explain these in notes. Afro (Talk) 20:14, 11 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- I'm still in the black here, do you mean to replace the title headers? If so no, I'm opposed to that idea. Second, I just this method on the recently List of Premiers of the Soviet Union article, which you supported, so I don't understand why you are opposed to the headers. Thirdly, have I miss intepret your comment? --TIAYN (talk) 13:13, 13 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- I'm just floating around the idea, I'm not opposed as such, just thought I would put out an idea if it might improve the article, but since its been shot down lets move on. WP:LEAD#Length suggests the lead should be no longer than 4 paragraphs. Afro (Talk) 14:52, 13 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Fixed/Done --TIAYN (talk) 16:19, 13 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Support - I have no issues with the article. Afro (Talk) 18:10, 13 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
some comments on the footnotes/citations:
- Wikipedia:Manual of Style (capital letters)#Composition titles indicates initial caps of titles. currently, this article's various citations (books and news articles) do not follow this.
- Done --TIAYN (talk) 08:51, 10 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- WP:ISBN indicates "Stylistically, please:
- Use 13-digit ISBNs, if available, as these are now standard as of January 1, 2007 and issued to new books.
- Done --TIAYN (talk) 08:51, 10 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Use dashes if they are included, as they divide the number into meaningful parts; the placement of dashes varies between books."
- Done --TIAYN (talk) 08:51, 10 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- some news articles are missing bylines. in the absence of a byline, one can put "staff writer" so the reader knows that the byline was not forgotten when preparing citations.
- Done --TIAYN (talk) 08:51, 10 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- what are credentials of "sssr.ru" and "Hrono.ru? (currently footnotes #22 and #31, respectively). are there wikipedia articles on these websites?--96.232.126.111 (talk) 23:28, 8 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Done --TIAYN (talk) 08:51, 10 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
comment on accessibility:
- WP:ALT discusses the need for "alt" text for images for those using screen readers (or users on platforms that do not offer images).--96.232.126.111 (talk) 23:28, 8 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Done --TIAYN (talk) 08:51, 10 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment: Regardless of how poorly you regard the statements, it's extremely poor form to remove someone else's civil comments, especially from your own nomination. If they're worthy of removal, certainly someone else will do it. --Golbez (talk) 17:28, 9 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Agreed, I replaced them. TIAYN, it's far better to respond to the comments rather than simply delete them. And actually, they don't seem at all unreasonable. The Rambling Man (talk) 17:35, 9 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Support: After fixing a couple of errors and Russian in the article, it looks okay to go to me. Might be a good idea to split the currently rather big lead into subsections dedicated to each of the listed head of state groups, i.e. "Chairman of the CEC" (most of the second para), "Chairman of the Presidium" (last sentence of the second para and all of the third), "President" (last para). --illythr (talk) 16:46, 13 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Thanks for the support... I don't really see the point in breaking the list into sections, It would over-complicate things. Of course, If you could show me a version of it in a sandbox I may reconsider. --TIAYN (talk) 13:39, 14 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
- The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.
The list was promoted by The Rambling Man 18:18, 17 February 2011 [19].
- Nominator(s): Scorpion0422 19:22, 3 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
It's been a while since I've been through here. I'm nominating this list to prevent our lovely Lists of World Wrestling Entertainment champions FT from being delisted. It's modeled after the numerous champion list FLs and as always, I'll address any concerns brought forward. Enjoy. -- Scorpion0422 19:22, 3 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Comments - Per WP:ABBR state names should not be abbreviated. Ref 14 does not cover the entire Notes section of Reign 10. Ref 5 does not cover the notes section of Reign 2 and in fact Solie.org claims the championship was won on December 23. Afro (Talk) 20:37, 3 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- But, WP:ABBR doesn't say anything about lists. All of the ref have been fixed. -- Scorpion0422 22:47, 3 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- The MOS is for use in the English Wikipedia if you didn't read the first paragraph which happens to include lists. Specifically in WP:ABBR it says "Current and former postal codes and abbreviations—such as TX for Texas, Calif. for California, Yorks for Yorkshire—should not be used to stand in for the full names in normal text." Afro (Talk) 23:38, 3 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Yes, but this isn't "normal text", it's a list. Most lists I've seen previously have used abbreviations to save space and make the columns narrower. -- Scorpion0422 23:59, 3 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- For what it's worth all the draft pick lists I've worked on use full state names, though the CITY, STATE isn't alone in the box (so it rarely determines the size of that column). Staxringold talkcontribs 01:23, 2 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Support - I guess since there's no guideline against it I'll accept it as a personal peeve, I have no objections to the promotion. Afro (Talk) 12:22, 9 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Support - I did some small fixes, but based on the numerous FL's I've worked on about championships this follows the same formula and checks out in my eyes. Meets WP:WIAFL, good job Scorp nice to another list from ya.--Truco 503 03:31, 6 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Comments –
What does "as in the Raw brand having the WWE Women's Championship" mean in the context of that sentence? You may want to check that.- I've re-worded to "as a counterpart to the Raw brand's WWE Womens Championship"
Don't need to link any of the wrestlers more than once in the lead.- Fixed.
- Check the sorting of Combined days in the combined reigns list. The reign with 47+ days isn't sorting correctly for me when going from lowest to highest. Giants2008 (27 and counting) 01:23, 7 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- I know what is wrong with it, but I have no idea how to fix it. The number in question uses wikicode, {{age in days|month1=11|day1=21|year1=2010}}+ gets "5145+". However, the other rows use {{sort|056|56}}. The formula is used because Natalya is the current champion and so that the page doesn't need to be updated every single day. So that's the issue, but I don't know how to fix it (other than just going back to manually updating the number, which I'm against). -- Scorpion0422 01:45, 7 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- You should be using {{Age in days nts}}. Afro (Talk) 06:09, 8 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Resolved comments from The Rambling Man (talk) 21:05, 31 January 2011 (UTC)[reply] |
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Comments
The Rambling Man (talk) 21:49, 11 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
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- Support no flaws against the criteria as far as I can see. The Rambling Man (talk) 21:07, 31 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Resolved comments from --WillC 04:57, 3 February 2011 (UTC)[reply] |
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:Comment from Wrestlinglover
Well well well, beat me too it. I had always planned to do this list and kept putting it off. Well I guess I'll try to help best I can with some comments. I haven't been on here in a while, and I decided to get on just to help out here.
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- Okay, I'd remove the N/A section as it is not being used. The "As of" parts, as it is pretty much common sense and is updated automatically.**Personally, I think most of the key is rather unnecessary. It seems that whoever added it was following the old stereotype that most wrestling fans are idiots.
- As for the references, there are too many WWE to third party. This is the largest wrestling company in the world, and thus the article covering one of its titles should be sourced not entirely by primary sources. I'd like to see one third party reference for each reign added. This should be very easy, as WrestleView, Slam sports, and PWTorch certainly have plenty.
- I've never really understood that line of thinking. Yes, we are encouraged to use third party sourcing, particularily in bios, but I think in a list like this, it's perfectly acceptable. After all, it is the WWE's belt, and the history (unlike, say, the tag team titles) is pretty straightforward and uncontroversial.
- I understand that idea, but to best cover a subject is to include a wide varity of sources.--WillC 06:06, 25 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- If I were a casual reader, I would put a lot more stock in the official website than I would in one I'd never heard of. Besides, links to other histories and sites are also provided. -- Scorpion0422 II (Talk) 04:09, 26 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- It isn't just about the casual reader, it is more about providing a well sourced and documented article. WWE changes its history and stance all the time. It is best to also provide a non-partisan account of the events as well. It isn't that hard to do, certainly with a subject as this.
- If I were a casual reader, I would put a lot more stock in the official website than I would in one I'd never heard of. Besides, links to other histories and sites are also provided. -- Scorpion0422 II (Talk) 04:09, 26 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- I understand that idea, but to best cover a subject is to include a wide varity of sources.--WillC 06:06, 25 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- I've never really understood that line of thinking. Yes, we are encouraged to use third party sourcing, particularily in bios, but I think in a list like this, it's perfectly acceptable. After all, it is the WWE's belt, and the history (unlike, say, the tag team titles) is pretty straightforward and uncontroversial.
- I hope these all help.--WillC 07:59, 23 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Thanks for the review. -- Scorpion0422 01:42, 25 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- No problem.
- Thanks for the review. -- Scorpion0422 01:42, 25 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- I hope these all help.--WillC 07:59, 23 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I've removed the statement about only being in the women's division. For the record, I'm not going to act on any of your other suggestions. I feel that they are either unnecessary (adding more refs) or detract from the article (making the opening sentence quite clunky). -- Scorpion0422 01:34, 6 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Okay so you feel a hyper-link is clunky? You also feel making sure a "Featured Article" is sourced well with a wide varity of sources is unnecessary? And for some reason "As of ???" is important to the article when the article is updated automaticly and it is assumed to be up to date? Now as for the match types thing, nicely an ip included the reason the matches should be included in the article. They actually effect the history as the champion was not pinned in the match.--WillC 08:02, 6 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- professional wrestling promotion is already linked to in the opening sentence. -- Scorpion0422 18:10, 6 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Okay, two left to go. A simple removal of templates, which conflict with common sense and sourcing the article with third-party refs when it is mainly sourced by primary, and it is meant to be an FA.--WillC 19:59, 6 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- What's the status on Will's remaining concerns? Dabomb87 (talk) 23:44, 13 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- I don't think extra refs are needed, links to title histories from other sites are provided, I think adding more citations to the table would simply add clutter, rather than doing any real good. -- Scorpion0422 03:16, 14 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Clutter is just an excuse, you just don't want to do the work. This is a featured article, sourced primarily with primary sources. Notice List of TNA World Heavyweight Champions, has two refs per reign and is not cluttered.--WillC 05:43, 14 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Actually, this is a Featured List candidated, not a featured article. By the way, you can't really compare this with the TNA list, because TNA doesn't have a full title history at their website like the WWE does. Does adding a few citations to a PWT article that barely mentions the relevant change vastly improve the article? Nope. It has nothing to do with laziness, I just don't see adding clutter as an improvement. -- Scorpion0422 13:36, 14 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- This will become a featured article in a since. Both Lists and Articles are featured material. TNA does not add links to each reign like WWE but at times have a title history on their website. However, the WWE links add no more information than a slam or PWTorch ref usually. However, PWTorch refs can add more, with real world events, rather than storyline excuses. Seen from the TNA list, the clutter excuse is non-sense.--WillC 22:50, 14 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Actually, this is a Featured List candidated, not a featured article. By the way, you can't really compare this with the TNA list, because TNA doesn't have a full title history at their website like the WWE does. Does adding a few citations to a PWT article that barely mentions the relevant change vastly improve the article? Nope. It has nothing to do with laziness, I just don't see adding clutter as an improvement. -- Scorpion0422 13:36, 14 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Clutter is just an excuse, you just don't want to do the work. This is a featured article, sourced primarily with primary sources. Notice List of TNA World Heavyweight Champions, has two refs per reign and is not cluttered.--WillC 05:43, 14 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- I don't think extra refs are needed, links to title histories from other sites are provided, I think adding more citations to the table would simply add clutter, rather than doing any real good. -- Scorpion0422 03:16, 14 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- What's the status on Will's remaining concerns? Dabomb87 (talk) 23:44, 13 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Okay, two left to go. A simple removal of templates, which conflict with common sense and sourcing the article with third-party refs when it is mainly sourced by primary, and it is meant to be an FA.--WillC 19:59, 6 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- professional wrestling promotion is already linked to in the opening sentence. -- Scorpion0422 18:10, 6 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Support I see no issues-- ♫Greatorangepumpkin♫ T 14:48, 25 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Tending towards oppose The "List of combined reigns" section is completely unreferenced. I understand that the combined-reign stats could trivially be obtained by adding up the "Days held" numbers; however, without external sources, there is no justification that such a statistic (i.e. combined reigns) is notable. In other words: arguably any number of statistics can be generated from a given set of data, so what makes combined reigns particularly noteworthy? Minor: it is unclear what Location means in the first table. Could you explain it in the key?—indopug (talk) 17:04, 27 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- It's basically a summary table. It tells you all of the winners, their number of reigns and their combined reigns, so all of the important information in the main table. Summary tables are done in many sports-related lists (particularily championships). I'm not sure why you would think that their combined reign length is not notable for inclusion. -- Scorpion0422 II (Talk) 15:27, 28 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Also a source is not really needed, as we can determine the days with the age in days template. Plus the tables are included due to an agreement at WP:PW, so it is notable to an extent.--WillC 17:27, 28 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Support - looks OK -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 13:19, 1 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment Is this a RAW-only title or a WWE-wide title? I ask because the lead says it can now be won on any brand, but the table says it became RAW-exclusive when Maryse was drafted. Staxringold talkcontribs 01:31, 2 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- That's true, but at the end of that paragraph it says "The title is now accessible to both WWE brands and the champion can appear on both shows." It became a WWE-wide title after the unification in the summer of 2010. -- Scorpion0422 14:53, 2 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Nono, I'm talking about that sentence in the lead and then the sentence in the TABLE "The championship became exclusive to the Raw brand on April 13, 2009 when Maryse was drafted.[6]" There is no corresponding sentence in the table describing when it goes WWE-wide. All I can say is it was a little confusing to me. Staxringold talkcontribs 14:59, 2 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- The tenth entry says "The WWE Women's Championship was also on the line, meaning the winner would unify the two championships. The title was referred to as the WWE Unified Divas Championship for weeks afterward, and became accessible on both Raw and SmackDown brands." -- Scorpion0422 15:06, 2 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I think I can explain it. What the lead sentence refers to is the WWE Draft in 2009 where Maryse was drafted or traded from SmackDown to Raw. Because of that the Divas title became exclusive to that show. It became a World Wide title at SummerSlam (2010) last August. If your still confused contact me.--Voices in my Head WrestleMania XXVII 21:50, 2 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Nono, it makes sense, I just didn't read that 10th entry properly. Staxringold talkcontribs 22:28, 2 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Support, I don't see any further issues, and I don't consider the oppose to be actionable. It's merely repeating what's been said in the earlier table. Wizardman Operation Big Bear 17:06, 11 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
- The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.
The list was promoted by The Rambling Man 10:44, 15 February 2011 [20].
- Nominator(s): Candyo32 16:17, 30 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I am nominating this for featured list because, in being based from the numerous Grammy Award lists done by AnotherBeliever, I believe this article meets featured list standards. Candyo32 - Happy New Year :) 05:09, 7 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Comments Great list, but I think "for her self-titled, debut album" "debut album" should be italicized. Also
- Ref. 2:
|accessdate=April 24, 2010
should be|accessdate=2010-04-24
, like all the other refs.
- Ref. 2:
- Done
- Ref. 4, 6, 7, 9, 10, 11, 12:
<ref>{{cite web|
should be the cite news template, newspaper -> publisher
- Ref. 4, 6, 7, 9, 10, 11, 12:
- Although published by newspaper companies, these stories were not printed in these newspapers, only via online, which is why it is cite web not cite news.
- Ref. 5, 8, about com refs:
|work=''[[Grammy Awards|Grammy.com]]''
delink this please and about com refs too (the publisher and the work), except ref 9
- Ref. 5, 8, about com refs:
- Done
- How reliable is about.com?
- Not sure, but I know it comes up alot in discussions, but About.com is published by The New York Times Company. Its usage was green-lit in the FLC of Fantasia Barrino discography also Candyo32 - Happy New Year :) 19:32, 11 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
-- ♫Greatorangepumpkin♫ T 18:20, 11 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Also delink "The New York Times Company" in the refs 10, 11, 12. No need to link so much.-- ♫Greatorangepumpkin♫ T 18:24, 12 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Done. Candyo32 - Happy New Year :) 19:17, 12 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Support Well, I see no issues.-- ♫Greatorangepumpkin♫ T 21:12, 12 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Resolved comments from Another Believer (Talk) 19:16, 12 February 2011 (UTC)[reply] |
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Comments: I am glad to see others contributors working on Grammy Awards lists. I hope you don't mind me making several edits to the list, mostly to increase consistency with other Grammy-related lists with FL status. Suggestions:
--Another Believer (Talk) 19:26, 16 January 2011 (UTC)[reply] |
I support the promotion of this list regardless of whether or not a sentence about the compilation album (see below) is included. --Another Believer (Talk) 20:00, 12 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Resolved comments from Adabow (talk · contribs) 04:25, 8 February 2011 (UTC)[reply] |
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Comments I haven't reviewed a Grammy list before, so please forgive me if I misinterpret something...
Adabow (talk · contribs) 03:01, 24 January 2011 (UTC)[reply] |
- Support I can't see any issues. Adabow (talk · contribs) 04:25, 8 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Note to reviewers – I am working on it, just letting you know I haven't abandoned the FLC. Candyo32 - Happy New Year :) 17:07, 24 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Okay, that was a week ago, how's it going? The Rambling Man (talk) 21:17, 31 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Candy, please let me know if you require assistance. Although this is your expansion and nomination, I am happy to help if need be. --Another Believer (Talk) 21:32, 31 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- On that note, please notify me when all current outstanding issues are resolved (if possible) and I'll give the list a look too. The Rambling Man (talk) 21:33, 31 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Ok, everything has been addressed except for the Alt text, because I'm not sure how true it is, but in a past GA or FA review I was told that alt text was no longer a requirement. Candyo32 - Happy New Year :) 22:16, 7 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Not a requirement but a really good thing to have. Do the alt (or get someone to help) and then I'll review the list myself. Thanks for getting back to us. All the best. The Rambling Man (talk) 22:21, 7 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- I added alt text per request on my talk page. --Another Believer (Talk) 23:01, 7 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Not a requirement but a really good thing to have. Do the alt (or get someone to help) and then I'll review the list myself. Thanks for getting back to us. All the best. The Rambling Man (talk) 22:21, 7 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Ok, everything has been addressed except for the Alt text, because I'm not sure how true it is, but in a past GA or FA review I was told that alt text was no longer a requirement. Candyo32 - Happy New Year :) 22:16, 7 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Support - Everything looks good and in order. Nice one Candy :)--CallMeNathan • Talk2Me 01:25, 8 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment - You shouldn't be using the small html tags to minimize text these should be done through automated facilities in the table. Afro (Talk) 18:35, 8 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Support - Don't see any problems =D, great job!--Blackjacks101 (talk) 12:41, 11 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Question: Do any reviewers think it might be worth noting that several of the nominated and award-winning artists appear on Ultimate Grammy Collection: Contemporary R&B, a 2007 compilation album highlighting contemporary R&B music? I am on the fence, as the album is related to the award in that its the same affiliation (Grammy) and genre, but it is not specifically about the award itself. --Another Believer (Talk) 19:42, 12 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- I'm not sure about this. The single relevance of this list is the award of a Grammy, not inclusion of work in a subsequent album... (but that is just my opinion...) The Rambling Man (talk) 17:34, 14 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- No problem. I don't feel inclusion is necessary--just wanted to make sure it wasn't overlooked. --Another Believer (Talk) 18:56, 14 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
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The list was promoted by The Rambling Man 17:58, 14 February 2011 [21].
- Nominator(s): Staxringold talkcontribs 08:02, 29 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I am nominating this for featured list because I'm back baby! (sort of) Survived semester 1 of law school (aka boot camp) and now I have at least a little more time to return to Wiki editing. After wrapping up another article I'd left hanging I figured I should jump back into comfortable waters to restart my list work. Staxringold talkcontribs 08:02, 29 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Resolved comments from KV5 |
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Hope these comments help. — KV5 • Talk • 00:12, 2 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
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- Support — KV5 • Talk • 12:52, 2 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Resolved comments from The Rambling Man (talk) 18:59, 8 February 2011 (UTC)[reply] |
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Comments welcome back Stax, kinda missed you in a regular kinda way! Some stuff, you know the score...
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- Comment Now that you've attracted my attention, I ought to say that the tables' accessibility would benefit from marking up the column and row headers. MOS:ACCESS#Data tables is the guideline, and I'd be happy to help if needed. By the way, is everything in the main table centred just because that's a preference, or would it be just as good if everything were left-aligned? --RexxS (talk) 03:16, 8 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- It's purely style for the center-alignment, but I really do feel it looks better that way. As for "marking up the column/row headers", what do you mean? Staxringold talkcontribs 04:40, 8 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Row headers are probably something new since you were last here, Stax; the primary element in each row (here, the players' names) should be marked up as headers. Good baseball example is Philadelphia Phillies all-time roster (A). — KV5 • Talk • 03:07, 9 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Apologies for being cryptic, Stax. If we make the player's name into a row header, we can ensure that a screen reader is able to announce that for each data cell, if required. Imagine going down the Position column blindly. If all you heard was "Position, Outfielder", "Position Shortstop", then you'd not get much information, whereas if you heard "Doug Dickerson, Position, Outfielder", "Richie Hebner '71, Position, Shortstop", that would be much more informative. We want to allow visually-impaired viewers to navigate tables in any way they want – as sighted viewers can. The markup you need is e.g. ! scope="row" | Doug Dickerson, for each player's name cell. The complication here is that headers are bold & centred by default, so we normally force them back to left-aligned and normal weight with the "plainrowheaders" class. If you're still uncertain and you'd like me to mark-up this list as an example for you, I'd be happy to do that for you. --RexxS (talk) 03:34, 9 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- I'd be totally fine with left aligned text, so if you can do up this list that'd be great. I'm just worried from the sound of what you're saying that it'll change the outward look of the list (beyond the text alignment). Will the names still be in their own column? Staxringold talkcontribs 04:33, 9 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Yes, the names still have their own column; the only change you'll see, if you're using "plainrowheaders", is that the names will have a slightly darker background, the same color of the column headers. — KV5 • Talk • 12:08, 9 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Despite my failure to make row headers into row headers (as opposed to column headers) first time, I've now managed to mark up the table correctly. I hope that looking at the current wiki-code, you can see the general principle. The plainrowheaders has no effect on accessibility, but obviously creates a visual effect that you may prefer. --RexxS (talk) 14:48, 9 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Coolio, thanks! Why is it, though, that you can't center align with this additional screen-reader-friendliness? Staxringold talkcontribs 15:09, 9 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Heh, mainly because it was a real struggle to get "plainrowheaders" incorporated into common.css (see MediaWiki talk:Common.css/Archive 12#some wikitable ideas and MediaWiki talk:Common.css/Archive 12#Bold row headers for a blow-by-blow). It is only a minority proportion of tables (such as yours) which would benefit from the "non-bold, but centred" styling, so it is much harder to go to the keepers of common.css and argue for yet another style class. That's not to say it can't be done, but I'm going to have to take more ammunition to the debate than "it looks better centred", as you can see from those discussions I linked above. In the meantime, if you feel strongly about the visual effect (and there's no reason why you shouldn't), then applying style="text-align: center;" to each row header will produce the desired effect, but it's very messy - and don't let Jack Merridew know I told you! --RexxS (talk) 16:54, 9 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- All done, thanks! Staxringold talkcontribs 19:53, 9 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
CommentSupport –Pittsburgh Post-Gazette in reference 12 needs italics.Giants2008 (27 and counting) 22:19, 8 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Comments:
- In the second paragraph, you could add a sentence on any players from Pennsylvania. The lead is plenty long as is so it's not necessary.
- Only one guy, so I didn't add it. Staxringold talkcontribs 14:29, 12 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Having the compensatory draft picks start near the end of the third paragraph threw me off, that stuff seems to fit much better in the fourth; I'd move the last couple sentences down.
- On a note unrelated to the FLC, have we ever had a first-round draft pick reach the Hall of Fame? We have that sentence in probably every article and I can't remember a single one. (There will probably be one in the last of the 30 lists we write up..)
- Jim Rice from the Red Sox, and Dave Winfield from the Padres. Also should be (but won't be) Clemens from the Sox and of course Bonds. Plus Biggio for the Astros will get in eventually. Staxringold talkcontribs 14:29, 12 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Griffey and Jeter also, and probably Mauer and Longoria down the road. Manny for the Indians, ARod for the Ms, and Palmeiro for the Cubs are more PED should-be-but-might-nots. Staxringold talkcontribs 14:33, 12 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Yount and Molitor for the Brewers are in, Larkin will get in for the Reds next couple years. Staxringold talkcontribs 14:37, 12 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Makes sense when you think about it. Draft started in 1965, probably at least 1-2 years of minors, and a HoF career is 20ish years, then 5 years before HoF ballot #1. So you're talking 1990-92 for the absolute earliest possible draftee elections. Staxringold talkcontribs 14:38, 12 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Easy fixes, do those and I'll support. Wizardman Operation Big Bear 05:42, 12 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Support, issues fixed. Yeah, it seems like there are a lot on the horizon at least for the Hall. Wizardman Operation Big Bear 16:16, 12 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Support I don't see any problems other than Wizardman's paragraph balancing concern. I know you'll sort that out, so... Courcelles 08:36, 12 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
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- The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.
The list was promoted by Dabomb87 22:00, 8 February 2011 [22].
- Nominator(s): Another Believer (Talk) 00:34, 28 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I am nominating this list for FL status because I believe it meets all criteria and closely resembles the other Grammy-related lists with FL status. Just a couple more rock lists to go and all of the rock music categories will have FL status!
One comment for this list: the award honors songwriters, so in the Nominees column I went ahead and included the songwriter(s) following the performing artist(s) and works. However, due to space limitations, I did not do the same for the Songwriter(s) column if the recipients were a band with multiple members. I think it's safe to say that if one sees "U2" is designated as the songwriter then members of that band wrote the song (and they can click on the link to the article for that band if they are not familiar with the members). If reviewers think this is an instance of inconsistency, feel free to offer suggestions. One possibility is to present the information the same way in the Nominees column (band name instead of individual band members). Thanks, as always, to reviews to taking the time to offer suggestions. --Another Believer (Talk) 00:34, 28 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Support The only issue I found was that the image of Sting needs a full stop/period per WP:CAPTION as it is a full sentence. Adabow (talk · contribs) 19:50, 31 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Done. --Another Believer (Talk) 20:27, 31 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Support – Another great list in this series. Couldn't find anything to comment on. Giants2008 (27 and counting) 22:32, 2 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Resolved comments from The Rambling Man (talk) 21:25, 7 February 2011 (UTC)[reply] |
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Comments
The Rambling Man (talk) 19:24, 7 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
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- Support kapow. Great work, once again. The Rambling Man (talk) 21:25, 7 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Resolved comments from Courcelles 21:51, 7 February 2011 (UTC)[reply] |
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*Comment
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- Support Courcelles 21:51, 7 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Support-- ♫Greatorangepumpkin♫ T 18:15, 8 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
- The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.
The list was promoted by Dabomb87 22:00, 8 February 2011 [23].
- Nominator(s): Another Believer (Talk) 18:06, 25 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I am nominating this for featured list because I believe it meets all criteria and closely resembles (and provides even more detail than) the MusiCares Person of the Year list, which has FL status. Thanks, reviewers, for your assistance! Another Believer (Talk) 18:06, 25 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Quick comment b.1942 -> b. 1942-- ♫Greatorangepumpkin♫ T 19:13, 25 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Done. --Another Believer (Talk) 19:55, 25 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Resolved comments from The Rambling Man (talk) 21:28, 31 January 2011 (UTC)[reply] |
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Comments
The Rambling Man (talk) 18:29, 30 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
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- Comment - the "recipient" column, on my screen at least, is enormously wide, about twice the width of any of the names. Is there any reason for this? Otherwise, all looks OK -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 08:59, 4 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Reduced column width by 100px. Thanks! --Another Believer (Talk) 16:14, 4 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Support - all looks alright now -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 16:50, 4 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Support - got no issues with this list, good quick response (as ever) The Rambling Man (talk) 19:09, 7 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Resolved comments from Courcelles 20:23, 7 February 2011 (UTC)[reply] |
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*Comment My one concern is that the birth years aren't in the references, at least for the three I checked. Courcelles 19:30, 7 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
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- Support, good work as usual. Courcelles 20:23, 7 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Support-- ♫Greatorangepumpkin♫ T 14:49, 8 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
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- The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.
The list was promoted by Dabomb87 22:00, 8 February 2011 [24].
- Nominator(s): PresN 22:33, 20 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Back once more with the 11th of 14 lists. We're definitely winding down this cruise of the Hugo awards; we're done with all the written works, the magazines, editors, and movies, so we now move on to Best Professional Artist. Unlike other Hugo awards, there's no mention of what works the artists in question worked on in the eligibility year; the award is simply noted as going to such-and-such. This makes the table narrower than previous nominations, though I kept the same format. I've tried to incorporate suggestions and changes from previous nominations into this list, as usual. Thanks for reviewing! --PresN 22:33, 20 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Resolved comments from The Rambling Man (talk) 18:14, 30 January 2011 (UTC)[reply] |
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Comments
The Rambling Man (talk) 17:24, 27 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
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- Support – Went through the list and found nothing that concerned me. Giants2008 (27 and counting) 01:34, 31 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Support went back through the list after my niggles, no problemo for me. The Rambling Man (talk) 18:51, 7 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Support Standard fare, you know what you're doing, no issues to my eye. Courcelles 19:18, 7 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
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- The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.
The list was promoted by Dabomb87 22:00, 8 February 2011 [25].
- Nominator(s): Harrias talk 12:43, 16 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Another cricket centuries list, from perhaps one of the most underrated cricketers currently plying his trade on the international circuit. This one follows the format of those that have come before it, but as usual I expect a few things will crop up! Look forward to your comments and suggestions. Harrias talk 12:43, 16 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Resolved comments from The Rambling Man (talk) 17:19, 18 January 2011 (UTC)[reply] |
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Comments
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- Support – Meets FL standards. Full disclosure: I made a cleanup edit right after the article was created, when it was up for DYK. Giants2008 (27 and counting) 22:38, 23 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Support made one minor edit regarding which "South Africa" needed linking first in the key, but otherwise an excellent addition, stable, factually correct, well referenced and a good addition to our numerous cricket FLs. Well done. The Rambling Man (talk) 18:37, 7 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Resolved comments from Courcelles 19:59, 7 February 2011 (UTC)[reply] |
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*Comments
Courcelles 19:14, 7 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
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- Support Thanks for the explanation, gents. Courcelles 19:59, 7 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
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- The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.
The list was promoted by Dabomb87 22:00, 8 February 2011 [26].
- Nominator(s): 03md 02:33, 4 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I am nominating this for featured list because I feel it could be ready to become a featured list. 03md 02:33, 4 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment: It looks as though the bulk of this page (i.e., the entire table, over 420 entries) depends entirely on one Web site. I'm wondering if it would be more appropriate copyright-wise to keep the text at the top and the photos at the right, lop off the entire table at the bottom, and add www.stretfordend.co.uk to the External Links section. Same for the List of Manchester United F.C. players (25–99 appearances), which takes some 214 more entries from www.stretfordend.co.uk. I know they wouldn't be lists then, but it'd save us the embarrassment of ripping off what I think is an entire Web site. — JohnFromPinckney (talk) 07:06, 4 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- I actually took my information for the majority of the entries from the general reference by Ivan Ponting (listed at the bottom of the article). The list follows the format of List of Manchester United F.C. players and exists as a seperate article due to size constraints. Would it be appropriate to just reference from the website for post-2008 players (as the book only goes up to this point). 03md 00:52, 5 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Comments –
The hyphen after 1908 in the first paragraph should be an en dash.Now there's nothing there at all.Giants2008 (27 and counting) 22:06, 10 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Add "and", replacing the comma in "along with 11 FA Cups, four Football League Cups."Decapitalize Champions.The Reference column can be shortened to Ref or similar.Giants2008 (27 and counting) 00:18, 9 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- All done. 03md 12:49, 9 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Comments - I dislike the idea of two separate formats for the key can't the Table header key and position key be formatted in the same way?. The fair-use for the Frank Buckley image prohibits use in the article. Afro (Talk) 20:02, 10 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Why does this list exit? Is an under 25 caps at Manchester notable enough to create a list out of it? Do all players that played for Manchester deserve a list? Nergaal (talk) 02:41, 11 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Even then, the intro should mention the highest goalscorer in this category, and possibly how many played only once. Nergaal (talk) 02:52, 11 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- I'd assume that, as a list of all players who've ever played for the club (well over 1000, I would estimate) would be unfeasibly enromous, it has been broken down into subsections per WP:SIZE. You could eqaully ask why Philadelphia Phillies all-time roster (A), which is already at FL status, exists when there is nothing specifically notable about the combination of having played for the Phillies and having a surname beginning with A....... -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 09:10, 11 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- I did not say don't include the players playing at the club, just not all of them. Those playing one game, and not even having their full name are just too not notable. I think part of this list should be merged into the 100-25 one and about 90% of it just discarded. Nergaal (talk) 18:27, 15 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- ......which would presumably leave us with List of some, but not all, Manchester United F.C. players (fewer than 100 appearances) - how would that work exactly.....? -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 09:06, 17 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- I did not say don't include the players playing at the club, just not all of them. Those playing one game, and not even having their full name are just too not notable. I think part of this list should be merged into the 100-25 one and about 90% of it just discarded. Nergaal (talk) 18:27, 15 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- I'd assume that, as a list of all players who've ever played for the club (well over 1000, I would estimate) would be unfeasibly enromous, it has been broken down into subsections per WP:SIZE. You could eqaully ask why Philadelphia Phillies all-time roster (A), which is already at FL status, exists when there is nothing specifically notable about the combination of having played for the Phillies and having a surname beginning with A....... -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 09:10, 11 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Even then, the intro should mention the highest goalscorer in this category, and possibly how many played only once. Nergaal (talk) 02:52, 11 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- On the Phillies list which was brought up earlier people of note in A are 3 hall of famers one of which has a retired number, just to clear that up. Maybe if we're discussing a content move it'd be easier to have it as List of notable people Manchester United F.C. players with fewer than 25 appearances. Afro (Talk) 03:09, 24 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- The Phillies B list (also an existing FL) contains 179 players of which 4 are in the HoF (2.2%) but it also contains such total non-entities as Dan Boitano (only 1 inning pitched for the team), Art Bramhall (1 career at-bat) and Joe Bennett (1 game played in his entire career with no at-bats). The Man U list also contains some former football greats (Henrik Larsson, Peter Beardsley) alongside comparative nobodies. If it is acceptable for the Phillies to have multiple such FLs, why not Man U......? -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 09:11, 24 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Oppose wp:CFORK of the sub 100 caps one. Nergaal (talk) 18:27, 15 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- The two sub-100 lists can be merged if it is a problem. 03md 22:52, 18 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Resolved comments from The Rambling Man (talk) 18:13, 7 February 2011 (UTC)[reply] |
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Comments
The Rambling Man (talk) 19:11, 13 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
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- Technically, List of Manchester United F.C. players should list all the players to have made an appearance for the club as anyone to have played professional football is considered notable under WP:Notability. However it is unfeasible to have a list of 1000 players so for size reasons it has been split. I took a similar approach as for the Birmingham, Huddersfield etc. in terms of splitting up the players.
Comments If this list is failed primarily on the grounds that it is an excessive split, I will nominate the A, B and C (and if applicable, D) Phillies lists for FLRC. Although my personal opinion is that the Manchester United lists could easily be consolidated into two, United make a far stronger case for three lists than the Phillies do for twenty-one. —WFC— 15:24, 26 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Resolved comments from WFC |
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*To say Larsson "inspired" United to the title is arguably true, but a pretty strong claim. —WFC—
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- Support, no further problems. Well done! —WFC— 18:23, 4 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Thanks for your feedback. 03md 23:32, 4 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Resolved comments from Courcelles 09:19, 4 February 2011 (UTC)[reply] |
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*Comments
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- Support Courcelles 09:19, 4 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Thanks mate. 03md 23:32, 4 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Actually, I'm rather interested in Courcelles' first point. Would it be better from a stability and usability point of view to list these players by surname, rather than appearances, like the Phillies? I think the notability stems from them actually playing for MUFC, not how many times they've played for MUFC, but that is my opinion.... It may be that we need a wider discussion on this. The Rambling Man (talk) 18:13, 27 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- I think a broad discussion would be needed on the issue of appearances vs surnames, as the majority of clubs have a list of players who have reached a certain appearance threshold. I had the idea for the lists after seeing List of Manchester United F.C. players, which imho is a very good list and allows for discussion about the most successful players to appear for the club. In multiple alphabetical lists, this would be much more difficult to achieve. 02:28, 29 January 2011 (UTC)
- Agreed. But I'm confused by the difference between this list and the Phillies one. Are you arguing against a Phillies alphabetical list? And what do you mean by "most successful players"? The Rambling Man (talk) 21:12, 31 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- By most successful players, I meant the players featured on List of Manchester United F.C. players who have reached a certain appearance threshold. Alphabetical lists would limit the sorting functionality to the number of appearances by players beginning with a particular letter. Other sports may take different approaches but, in football, the most significant statistics are the appearances and goals. 03md 17:39, 1 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment I don't know enough on the topic to properly review the list, but I see nothing wrong with the split style. The Phillies' list went with the alphabetical style laid out in the Medal of Honor lists because (I assume, I chatted with KV5 on these lists but not about this particular reason) baseball "appearances" are less clear (how do you weigh pitchers vs. hitters? Or pinch hitters/runners? Or even defensive replacements?). So long as the overall roster is notable, which it clearly is, then it simply becomes a WP:ACCESS issue of how to best present the information in a manageable and readable way. I see nothing wrong with either approach, appearances or alphabet, so long as the field/topic allows it (hence the alphabetical styling for baseball). Note that, for example, List of Major League Baseball players with a career .400 on-base percentage has a "appearances" style cut-off (though not in the title) requiring at least 3,000 plate appearances both because that's what the excellent B-Ref uses but also because it draws a nice WP:ACCESS balance of not including the quickies who don't really belong amongst the long term .400-ers. Staxringold talkcontribs 01:13, 2 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Support - I see no problems here, and I don't have any issues with the splitting. You just need to switch round refs 2 and 3 after "....winning the European Cup" so that they're in numerical order -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 08:54, 4 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Done. Thanks for your feedback Chris. 03md 23:32, 4 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Weak support no major traumas. I still think, if the initial sort is by span, then when I force the table to sort by span, Doughty shouldn't move, but no biggie. Probably blame lack of support for Safari on this one. The Rambling Man (talk) 18:10, 7 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
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The list was promoted by Dabomb87 22:00, 8 February 2011 [28].
- Nominator(s): Hassocks5489 (tickets please!) 18:36, 1 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
This is a companion list to the longer established List of places of worship in Brighton and Hove. Having reviewed the sources on several occasions, I am confident that I have found every former, now-demolished place of worship in the city (even the really obscure ones, and there are a few of those). Each is given a comprehensive summary "blurb". None have separate articles, but in my view there is not really enough material to produce a standalone article about any of them – and in any case I would argue that the notability threshold would have to be higher for a building that is no longer is existence. Hassocks5489 (tickets please!) 18:36, 1 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Suggestion: I don't like the table very much. My suggestions:
- Replace the table with mine in my sandbox or
- Keep the tables but place the pics besides the table to the right.
I prefer suggestion number one. Remember it is just a suggestion :). Regards.-- ♫Greatorangepumpkin♫ T 11:46, 2 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Unfortunately #1 doesn't like my screen resolution or something: it has made the table about six times wider than the screen, so I have to scroll across a very long way to get to the end. On #2: since there are few relevant pictures for this list, I deliberately placed them throughout the first three paragraphs to break up the walls of text. Hope that sounds reasonable. Hassocks5489 (tickets please!) 12:05, 2 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- It might be useful to note the width in the table in his sandbox is 550%. Afro (Talk) 13:54, 2 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Mh, my screen shows it normally. If it is so, then it shouldn't be replaced. But I don't like the space right beside of the table. Has anyone a suggestion how to delete this space? The list is very good, but triffles like this space might be improved, if it is possible. Regards.-- ♫Greatorangepumpkin♫ T 17:35, 2 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- I'll need help/advice with this from others who have different screen settings, as everything looks completely "correct" on my home and work computers (I use IE8 and IE6 respectively). Hopefully there might be a solution that accommodates all variants. Hassocks5489 (tickets please!) 19:25, 2 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Mh, my screen shows it normally. If it is so, then it shouldn't be replaced. But I don't like the space right beside of the table. Has anyone a suggestion how to delete this space? The list is very good, but triffles like this space might be improved, if it is possible. Regards.-- ♫Greatorangepumpkin♫ T 17:35, 2 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- It might be useful to note the width in the table in his sandbox is 550%. Afro (Talk) 13:54, 2 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Unfortunately #1 doesn't like my screen resolution or something: it has made the table about six times wider than the screen, so I have to scroll across a very long way to get to the end. On #2: since there are few relevant pictures for this list, I deliberately placed them throughout the first three paragraphs to break up the walls of text. Hope that sounds reasonable. Hassocks5489 (tickets please!) 12:05, 2 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Resolved comments from The Rambling Man (talk) 19:29, 2 January 2011 (UTC)[reply] |
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Comments nice list.
The Rambling Man (talk) 18:41, 2 January 2011 (UTC)[reply] Thanks for your comments and observations; changes are highlighted in this diff. Hassocks5489 (tickets please!) 19:25, 2 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
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- Support happy now, very nice piece of work. The Rambling Man (talk) 20:40, 11 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Support Is it really necessary to link the c. (circa) so much? Anyway, I support this. It is really sad that there are no pics with licenses :/. Regards.-- ♫Greatorangepumpkin♫ T 17:07, 12 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Resolved comments from Courcelles 20:07, 7 February 2011 (UTC)[reply] |
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*Comments
Courcelles 19:04, 7 February 2011 (UTC)[reply] Thanks for your comments Courcelles;
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- Support AS to the "more than 30", it's ugly, but until a number can be sourced, better not to assume everything that could be listed is listed. Courcelles 20:07, 7 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
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The list was promoted by Dabomb87 22:00, 8 February 2011 [29].
- Nominator(s): MisterBee1966 (talk) 08:05, 31 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I am nominating this as the third of five lists for featured list because I feel this list already meets the criteria. Due to the few number of recipients in the years 1940 and 1941 the two years had to be merged into one list. Once completed the five lists 1940–1941 (currently a featured list), 1942 (currently a featured list), 1943, 1944 and 1945 will comprise all of the generally accepted 882 recipients of the Knight's Cross of the Iron Cross with Oak Leaves. I welcome any constructive feedback. Thanks in advance. MisterBee1966 (talk) 08:05, 31 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Resolved comments from The Rambling Man (talk) 17:53, 6 January 2011 (UTC)[reply] |
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Comments
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Quick comments –
Recipients of 1943: In the parenthetical Army, there's a bracket that shouldn't be there.If possible, make it so that note 15 doesn't have the contraction ("hadn't").Minor again, but reference 126 has a stray quotation mark.Giants2008 (27 and counting) 01:29, 18 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Support
Comment:- in Note # 15: "Stadler himself claimed that Dietrich proposed him on 22 March 1945..." I don't believe that "proposed him" is grammatically correct. I'm not exactly sure what is meant by it, so I haven't tweaked it. Are you using it to say "presented the medal to him"? If so, I think it should be changed to that. Regards, AustralianRupert (talk) 00:41, 20 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- It better reads as "claimed that Dietrich had nominated him on 22 March 1945". Does this work? MisterBee1966 (talk) 17:12, 21 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Yes, that works for me. Regards, AustralianRupert (talk) 20:10, 21 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- It better reads as "claimed that Dietrich had nominated him on 22 March 1945". Does this work? MisterBee1966 (talk) 17:12, 21 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- in Note # 15: "Stadler himself claimed that Dietrich proposed him on 22 March 1945..." I don't believe that "proposed him" is grammatically correct. I'm not exactly sure what is meant by it, so I haven't tweaked it. Are you using it to say "presented the medal to him"? If so, I think it should be changed to that. Regards, AustralianRupert (talk) 00:41, 20 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Support, a well-written list that I see no problems with. Only concern I may have is the number of redlinks, since I'm sure they could all be blue, but that's not an FLC issue. Wizardman Operation Big Bear 19:48, 5 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Support next up, 1944/45? Good, patient work. The Rambling Man (talk) 18:07, 7 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Support Nice work!Intothatdarkness (talk) 18:26, 7 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Support As I would expect, you have this down by now. Courcelles 18:50, 7 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
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The list was promoted by The Rambling Man 18:47, 7 February 2011 [30].
- Nominator(s): — KV5 • Talk • 02:40, 20 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Well, I haven't been around much lately, but I just saw that the C list passed, and the D one has been sitting around waiting to go, so other than the fact that I haven't done the alt text yet, have at it. All comments addressed as expediently as possible. — KV5 • Talk • 02:40, 20 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment on accessibility: Apart from the missing alt text, the article has a high standard of accessibility. I'll be happy to support on those grounds once alt text is added. --RexxS (talk) 03:06, 20 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Alt text done. — KV5 • Talk • 13:18, 23 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Support - all the accessibility issues have been resolved. --RexxS (talk) 14:41, 23 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Resolved comments from The Rambling Man (talk) 17:04, 27 January 2011 (UTC)[reply] |
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Comments
The Rambling Man (talk) 19:38, 20 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
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Comments –
Change "an" to "a" in "He amassed an 42–36 pitching record".Jose DeJesus isn't sorting in the proper order in the table.Giants2008 (27 and counting) 22:20, 29 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Done both. — KV5 • Talk • 22:37, 29 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Support – Meets FL standards. Giants2008 (27 and counting) 22:15, 2 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Support With one question/request. Could you add the general Phillies template to the bottom of each roster sub-article? They look naked with no nav-box down there, IMO, and it makes sense (at least to me) to have access to general Phillies' articles from these. Staxringold talkcontribs 01:05, 2 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- One of the previous FLCs brought this up. I agree with the need for a navbox, but neither this article nor the other sublists are linked from the main Phillies template, so its inclusion wouldn't be appropriate here. — KV5 • Talk • 01:09, 2 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Support. Only issue I have is in one of the images, it reads "Ed Daily won 42 games and hit 6 home runs." The six can be written out. If numbers under ten are in that form near a larger number, than a couple different images need to be tweaked so it's consistent. Wizardman Operation Big Bear 19:56, 5 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- I consider those to be "comparable quantities", a listed exception in MOS:NUM. — KV5 • Talk • 21:07, 5 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
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The list was promoted by Dabomb87 23:40, 3 February 2011 [31].
- Nominator(s): Eddie6705 (talk) 21:29, 17 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I am nominating this for featured list because i spent quite a while working on this list in my sandbox, refering to List of Manchester United F.C. records and statistics and List of Gillingham F.C. records and statistics as i did. I feel it passes the FL criteria, but am more than happy to correct anything which you feel isn't quite right. Eddie6705 (talk) 21:29, 17 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Resolved comments from The Rambling Man (talk) 21:15, 31 January 2011 (UTC)[reply] |
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Oppose
The Rambling Man (talk) 22:01, 19 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
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- Support lots of feedback, good reaction from the nominator in dealing with it all, no major flaws. The Rambling Man (talk) 21:15, 31 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Resolved comments from Struway2 (talk) 22:45, 25 January 2011 (UTC)[reply] |
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Comments Firstly, sorry I didn't get to the peer review. When I used to review regularly here I frequently used to suggest that people got their lists peer-reviewed first, rather than bringing them here nowhere near ready expecting FLC to be a glorified peer review, so it's not really very impressive me failing to get to yours when it was open for ages. So some of this will be nit-picking PR-ish, for which again I apologise. Struway2 (talk) 11:48, 21 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I have made the above changes, and i will add the country name and check flags for the transfer fee tables later today. I have added the sort temp into the two tables, but the columns still don't sort properly. Would you be able to have a look? And don't worry about missing the peer review, its bound to happen where the timing is unfortunate for some people. Eddie6705 (talk) 15:47, 22 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
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- Support. Meets FL criteria, and echo what TRM says above about the nominator. cheers, Struway2 (talk) 08:52, 1 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Resolved comments from Giants2008 (27 and counting) 01:02, 31 January 2011 (UTC)[reply] |
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Comments –
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- Support – Meets FL standards. Giants2008 (27 and counting) 01:02, 31 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
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The list was promoted by Dabomb87 23:40, 3 February 2011 [32].
- Nominator(s): --TIAYN (talk) 13:15, 11 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
This time, can someone actually review the list before it fails? Last time it wasn't promoted because of lack of reviewer interest. --TIAYN (talk) 13:15, 11 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Support - I have no problems with the list. Afro (Talk) 19:03, 11 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Thanks. --TIAYN (talk) 21:53, 11 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Support Would be nice if you move
{{Soviet Union sidebar}}
to the reference section beside the refs to the right (if this is possible). If not then let it. But I give you a support.-- ♫Greatorangepumpkin♫ T 20:10, 11 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Thanks. --TIAYN (talk) 21:53, 11 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Comment perhaps, instead of being rude, you could be pleasant about asking others to review the list. People spend a lot of time here at FLC, and I don't think your tone encourages anyone to come and review this list. The Rambling Man (talk) 21:51, 11 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Sorry for being impolite, but when my nomination fails because of lack of reviewer interest it is rather enoying. But again sorry, I didn't mean to offend. --TIAYN (talk) 21:53, 11 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- I understand how frustrating it can be. Let's hope we can gain sufficient support and interest this time! The Rambling Man (talk) 21:56, 11 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Resolved comments from Arsenikk (talk) 17:52, 12 January 2011 (UTC)[reply] |
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;Comments
Overall good, just a few oddities:
In general the list looks very good. It is also appreciated that you are working on an important field (one of the most important countries to ever have existed) which is generally poorly covered on Wikipedia. Arsenikk (talk) 23:01, 11 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
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- Support neat and informative list. Arsenikk (talk) 17:52, 12 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Thanks. --TIAYN (talk) 20:36, 12 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Quick comments – Here are a few things I must have missed the first time I reviewed this list.
Done "Thirteen individuals have been premier. Two of the twelve premiers...". One of these figures can't be right. Upon inspection, I think it's the first one, which appears to be counting Stalin twice.Done Vyacheslav Molotov: "the implementation of the first First Five-Year Plan". If there was only one First Five-Year Plan, this is a glaring prose redundancy.Done Nikolai Buganin: "accused of being a member of a Anti-Party Group". Change the second "a" to " the", assuming there was one Anti-Party Group, which our article on it indicates.Giants2008 (27 and counting) 17:43, 16 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
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The list was promoted by Dabomb87 23:40, 3 February 2011 [33].
- Nominator(s): Neo139 (talk) 01:07, 23 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I am nominating this for featured list because I don't know what else I can do with it xD I think I meets criteria to be featured. --Neo139 (talk) 01:07, 23 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]
OpposeNeutralSupport -I don't find this list to reach FL criteria. Additionally, you are repeating similar things that were mentioned in the previous FLs. This list still needs a lot of work. I suggest you retract the nomination.CallMeNathan • Talk2Me 01:54, 23 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Resolved comments from >--CallMeNathan • Talk2Me 01:54, 23 December 2010 (UTC)[reply] |
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**Firstly, the lead is littered with song titles. Instead, you should list some of the more popular ones and list their accomplishments.
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Oppose per Nathan.- Support – All issues were fixed. The table is okay now. Novice7 | Talk 04:40, 28 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Resolved comments from Novice7 |
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Comments
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Oppose: I'm sorry, but I agree per above comments; I would say the same. If every item was done, I'll change my oppose to a support (possibly).-- ♫Greatorangepumpkin♫ T 10:47, 23 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]- Support now-- ♫Greatorangepumpkin♫ T 15:35, 26 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Neutral - Comments i had have been addressed, i unfortunately don't have the time to read check for any new errors so i cannot support it, but i no longer oppose this article being promoted. Nice work. - (CK)Lakeshade - talk2me - 06:11, 3 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Thanks!--Neo139 (talk) 13:22, 3 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Resolved comments from - (CK)Lakeshade - talk2me - |
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Comments
Im sorry but this article needs much much work. I havnt even gone through in detail, this is what ive noticed in a 5 minute glance. Sorry but this needs a peer review not an FL nomination. - (CK)Lakeshade - talk2me - 20:39, 26 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]
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- Comments - Don't use the small tags for the headers Peak chart header. Use either JPN or JAP don't use both. Since its an extended discography I would suggest adding style="text-align:center" to the start of the coding for the tables, to remove the excessive use of align="center". Error in Ref 40. Ref 56 and 63 needs a format parameter. Afro (Talk) 21:30, 29 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Done. Small tags removed. JAP-->JPN. Added style="text-align:center" in albums/eps/singles table and removed the excessive use of align="center". Fixed Ref 40. And Ref 56 and 63, I don't know what you mean. If you can explain it I will appreciate it.^^ --Neo139 (talk) 05:49, 30 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- That means that you need to add
format=
to the refs. ref 56.2 and 63.2 are both pdf, so you should writeformat=PDF
.-- ♫Greatorangepumpkin♫ T 10:42, 30 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]- Done thanks--Neo139 (talk) 17:33, 30 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- "and was certified Diamond in United States[8][5]" "...number one on the US Billboard 200 and sold over 240,000 in its first week.[22][16]" Refs should be in numerical order. Can better sources not be found for the Soundtracks? example for Dracula 2000 couldn't Play.com or Amazon not be used? Afro (Talk) 18:05, 30 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Done. Ref in numerical order. More sources added to soundtracks.--Neo139 (talk) 19:59, 30 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- The point I was making was that IMDB is generally not deemed reliable due to most of the content being user submitted. Afro (Talk) 03:11, 24 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Its ok. I didn't knew imdb content was user submitted. Anyway, all the soundtracks songs were previously released under albums or singles. Do I deleted the soundtrack section.--Neo139 (talk) 16:35, 24 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- The point I was making was that IMDB is generally not deemed reliable due to most of the content being user submitted. Afro (Talk) 03:11, 24 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Done thanks--Neo139 (talk) 17:33, 30 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- That means that you need to add
Oppose Lead needs to be rewritten, there's a lot of choppy prose ("The band is noted for its blend of rap rock and alternative metal" has nothing to do with sentences before and after it). For some reason, Hybrid Theory is discussed twice: I suggest dealing with the band's releases in a strictly chronological order to eliminate such redundancies. Remove information that is not vital to the LP discography; for example, the band-name change and mentions of RHCP and Green Day. Further, I think their LP Underground series of EPs and deserves a mention in the lead. In the compilation appearances (below), only list those songs which have not appeared in another album before. Finally, per WP:LEAD, information that is sourced in the body of the article needn't be cited with references in the lead (chart positions, certifications etc), so I suggest removing the cites to improve readability. Use one of the existing FLs at WP:DISCOG as a template for the lead.—indopug (talk) 12:35, 2 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Done: Deleted "The band is noted for its blend of rap rock and alternative metal. Merged Hybrid Theory info. Added some info about LPU EPs. Now only listing songs which have not appeared in other album before in compilation. Deleted ref in the lead that were already sourced in the body. --Neo139 (talk) 07:12, 3 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- I'll revisit in a couple of days (you can ping me if I don't). Meanwhile, per WP:DISCOGSTYLE, the soundtracks and compilations sub-sections should only mention songs that the band hadn't already released before, so entries like "One Step Closer" and "Points of Authority" shouldn't be there.—indopug (talk) 13:20, 13 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Done: deleted soundtracks that the band already released. Thanks
- Comment Have all reviewers been asked to revisit? Dabomb87 (talk) 00:05, 11 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- No. Should I poke them in their talk? --Neo139 (talk) 02:12, 11 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Resolved comments from The Rambling Man (talk) 22:55, 11 January 2011 (UTC)[reply] |
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Oppose
The Rambling Man (talk) 20:39, 11 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
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Quick comment – Minor point, but a period is needed after the sentence "The band has produced ten number-one singles on the US Alternative Songs chart".Giants2008 (27 and counting) 01:49, 12 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Done: thanks --Neo139 (talk) 03:18, 12 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Comments
Resolved comments from Adabow (talk · contribs) 05:14, 22 January 2011 (UTC)[reply] |
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:*The opening sentence should have all numbers written in words.
Adabow (talk · contribs) 23:15, 19 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Adabow (talk · contribs) 22:36, 23 January 2011 (UTC)[reply] |
- How reliable is mikeshinoda.com?
- Mike Shinoda is the dude of Linkin Park.--Neo139 (talk) 03:35, 2 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Not a good source for certs. Adabow (talk · contribs) 03:52, 2 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Done. Thats true. I removed it.--Neo139 (talk) 13:22, 3 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Not a good source for certs. Adabow (talk · contribs) 03:52, 2 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Comments
- I rewrote the lead (mostly rearranging stuff); let me know if I introduced any inaccuracies/deleted any important information.
- Thanks ^^--Neo139 (talk) 20:39, 22 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Most tables don't have the ""—" denotes releases that did not chart or were not released in that region thing.
- Done--Neo139 (talk) 20:39, 22 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Most of those featured-artist singles seem to be credited to individual members of the band, as opposed to the band as a whole. I'm not sure they need to be listed (this is a discog of the band, not its individual members). Further, are all these singles, as opposed to just album tracks?
- Done. Removed all except the ones that were from the hole band and not just one or two members.--Neo139 (talk) 20:39, 22 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Considering how notable their efforts on the Billboard Alt. songs charts have been, I'm surprised that the chart isn't included in the singles table. Maybe replace the Japan chart (with only two, low-placed entries) with this?
- Some months ago US Alt chart was on the article, but was a discussion about this (because of having two US charts). So I got removed, added a new country and talk about Us Alt Chart in the Lead.--Neo139 (talk) 20:39, 22 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- I see a huge amount of hidden text, which the article size very large, and difficult to work on slower connections. Please remove it.
- Done--Neo139 (talk) 20:39, 22 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- According to the lead, HT was cert, 4x platinum in Europe. Why isn't this in the table, it seems a much bigger deal than the Austrian certs.
- I think the same. Some time ago the article had all the certs. That was ok per DISCOG. Then I add a Diamond cert to a FL, and got it reverted. I asked about the revert with no reply. Some weeks later someone changed DISCOGSTLYE (without any discussion) and added that we should only add certs of the countries of the chart table. That was at the same time that I started with this FLC, and users here ask to remove the certs. So I removed. (Didn't had time to discuss in discogstyle talk while running FLC). Now we have less information in favor of looks, but it seems that is what most users want. --Neo139 (talk) 20:39, 22 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- I see a number of "Records" and "Recordings" under label; these should be removed.
- Done--Neo139 (talk) 20:39, 22 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Is a separate column required for references? Couldn't you just stick them next to the album/track/EP name? (although this is just a stylistic issue, so it's up to you)
- Most article don't use seperate column for refs, but I think it looks better for tables. Its a new trend =P --Neo139 (talk) 20:39, 22 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Video albums: since only two albums were certified, I think you can remove that column, and instead add a note below Format for that album—"US certification: platinum". Make the labels as "Warner Bros., Machine Shop".
- Done--Neo139 (talk) 20:39, 22 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- "Certifications for Linkin Park albums in Japon", "Peak chart positions for albums of Linkin Park in [the] United Kingdom". In fact, I suggest rewriting these to "Peak chart positions of Linkin Park albums in the <place>".
- Done--Neo139 (talk) 20:39, 22 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Soundtracks and Compilations: why does one have a release date, but the other not? I think a "Year" column for both should be sufficient. In fact, why not the two small tables? Mention "soundtrack" against those that are, in the Title column. Eg: Queen of the Damned soundtrack. Again, these aren't singles—maybe this table and the feat. artist songs table should go under an "Other appearances" section?—indopug (talk) 15:18, 22 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Done Added year, and now they are under other appearances section--Neo139 (talk) 20:39, 22 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Thanks for all the comments^^--Neo139 (talk) 20:39, 22 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Support with final comments:
- Not including the US Alt Songs in the charts is RLY dumb. I suggest you restart the discussion about this after this FLC. If the consensus stands to not include these, listing "Runaway" in the table is strange. Instead, remove it and make a note: "Although 'Runaway' was never released as a single, it charted at ## on the US Alt Songs chart."
- Done: Added US Alt Chart. Someone and the talk page asked for it, so the result of the future discussion would be to include.--Neo139 (talk) 23:18, 23 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- I think you can merge that featured artist song to the main table, I don't think it is a big deal. But do make another note, clearly stating that LP were only featured artist.
- Done--Neo139 (talk) 23:18, 23 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Since "New Divide" is in the Singles table, is it necessary to include in the Soundtracks too? Looking at the songs in Other appearances again, I see that most are only by Chester Bennington, not Linkin Park. Remove these?
- Done--Neo139 (talk) 23:18, 23 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Why does Italy come before Ireland in all the tables?—indopug (talk) 05:03, 23 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Done lol (alphabet fail xd)--Neo139 (talk) 23:18, 23 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Support with final comments:
- Thanks for all the comments^^--Neo139 (talk) 20:39, 22 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Question Have you asked the user with the odd name to revisit?-- ♫Greatorangepumpkin♫ T 09:39, 28 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Yes, but not since his last revisit. Although the lead has changed in content since his comment, the size is more or less the same and if by choppy he meant the size, I don't know what else I could add that is much important to be in the lead. So I'm not sure if ask for a second revisit or not.--Neo139 (talk) 19:33, 28 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- If I were you, I would ask him one more time. That won't hurt.-- ♫Greatorangepumpkin♫ T 17:03, 31 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Done link--Neo139 (talk) 04:33, 2 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- If I were you, I would ask him one more time. That won't hurt.-- ♫Greatorangepumpkin♫ T 17:03, 31 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
- The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.
The list was promoted by Dabomb87 23:40, 3 February 2011 [34].
- Nominator(s): HausTalk 13:29, 10 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]
A previous version of this list received some support as a FLC in May 2008. Some ideas came up during the candidacy and have been implemented. The list has recently been peer-reviewed. Cheers. HausTalk 13:29, 10 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Comments: Is there a reason or purpose for the blank row in the large list? Also, the many uses of "Strasbourg Astronomical Data Center (CDS)" in the References section seems redundant--consider using just "CDS" for subsequent uses. Also, I believe "–" is the proper dash for displaying a page range (see Citations section). --Another Believer (Talk) 20:12, 12 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Thanks for the feedback. I think I've addressed your points:
- Changed "—" to "–" for page ranges after double-checking WP:DASH.
- Changed "Strasbourg Astronomical Data Center (CDS)" to CDS 56 times.
- Regarding the blank row
, I see two options. Either remove it and disable sorting by declination or leave it as it is. If anyone sees another way around this, I'm all ears.I think it was resolved by adding style="display:none;" to the row's formatting. HausTalk 10:44, 13 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Cheers. HausTalk 10:34, 13 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Thank you for addressing my concerns. --Another Believer (Talk) 18:30, 1 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Resolved comments from The Rambling Man (talk) 18:02, 6 January 2011 (UTC)[reply] |
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Comments
The Rambling Man (talk) 17:27, 14 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]
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- Support I have a couple of personal outstanding niggles, but nothing so serious as to stop me supporting. The Rambling Man (talk) 18:02, 6 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Resolved comments from RexxS (talk) 21:30, 31 December 2010 (UTC)[reply] |
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;Comments from RexxS:
First of all, the four star charts are obviously a labour of love, and contain a lot of information, and you deserve commendation for producing them. When considering how WP:ACCESS impacts images, you have to try to figure out how (1) a visually-impaired viewer would see them; and (2) how a blind viewer, using a screen reader such as JAWS, would hear them.
Summary: Needs alt text; Image size is already optimised; Table would benefit from tweaks. Hope that helps, --RexxS (talk) 16:40, 16 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]
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- Support – The issues I raised have all been addressed. --RexxS (talk) 21:30, 31 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Resolved comments from Courcelles 21:22, 23 January 2011 (UTC)[reply] |
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Comments :This is a list of selected stars, so the obvious question is "selected by whom?" I'm sort of feeling let down by the list not including why these stars are considered the important ones.
Courcelles 05:59, 14 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
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- Support Courcelles 21:22, 23 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Question could a Google Sky image be used in this article? A casual reader will have a really hard time reading any of the maps provided here, but if something more realistic is used, like a view from GS, it would be much more easier. Nergaal (talk) 09:30, 20 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- If possible I think this is a really nice idea... The Rambling Man (talk) 18:58, 20 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Google Sky is out, as they compile data from NASA (which is free) and the ESA (which can only be used under fair-use) without differentiating what comes from where. You won't be able to justify anything fair-use here, since the free images are adequate. (They are also actual navigational charts, which is sort of the point...) Courcelles 02:47, 21 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Static photographs of these areas would be much, much more cluttered and hard to make any sense of than the charts. They would show 6,000-ish bodies instead of 58-ish. On the other hand, I suggested long ago adding external links for individual stars to an interactive system like wikisky or google sky so that the reader could explore the area of a star. I never followed up on this because I was sure it would cause a
WP:NOTDIRWP:ELPOINTS ruckus. If consensus could be attained here to add a column for google sky links, I'd enthusiastically add it. Cheers. HausTalk 14:45, 21 January 2011 (UTC)[reply] - Item #3 of WP:ELYES might support adding links to google sky entries for each star. Cheers. HausTalk 01:12, 22 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Has this concern been addressed? Dabomb87 (talk) 23:33, 27 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Static photographs of these areas would be much, much more cluttered and hard to make any sense of than the charts. They would show 6,000-ish bodies instead of 58-ish. On the other hand, I suggested long ago adding external links for individual stars to an interactive system like wikisky or google sky so that the reader could explore the area of a star. I never followed up on this because I was sure it would cause a
- Google Sky is out, as they compile data from NASA (which is free) and the ESA (which can only be used under fair-use) without differentiating what comes from where. You won't be able to justify anything fair-use here, since the free images are adequate. (They are also actual navigational charts, which is sort of the point...) Courcelles 02:47, 21 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- If possible I think this is a really nice idea... The Rambling Man (talk) 18:58, 20 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Support -- ♫Greatorangepumpkin♫ T 19:50, 30 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.