Talk:Attempted assassination of Donald Trump in Pennsylvania/Archive 1

Archive 1

Archive 2

Archive 3

→

Archive 5

Other entries

Resolved

• 2024 shooting of Donald Trump
• Shooting of Donald Trump

---Another Believer _(Talk) 22:46, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

Redirected. ---Another Believer _(Talk) 22:58, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

Article already being heavily vandalized

We need admin-protected, its been 10 minutes and we've already seen like 2 different attempts at vandalism Sir MemeGod ._. (talk - contribs - created articles) 22:55, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

Autoconfirmed protection would do it in my opinion, it's mainly IP editors doing the vandalism. Not a single user account as far as I've seen. Luunarr (talk) 22:57, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

What we needed was for this article not to be created yet, because as yet no-one knows what's going on. Instead of which we have a thousand would-be citizen reports who saw something on the TV or the internet and jumped to conclusions. But yeah, protection for this and related articles is a priority. GenevieveDEon (talk) 22:59, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

Completely agree with this. Dumuzid (talk) 23:00, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

Rename article as attempted assassination (or something of the like)?

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.

Title. The attack type on the article is already listed as "attempted assassination<' and turmp was clearly shot, so? CavDan24 (talk) 23:08, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

See #Requested move 13 July 2024. SimplyLouis27 (talk) 23:08, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The current title is not good

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.

It is informal it should be titled as an incident, it was not fatal just injurious, Ayunipear (talk) 23:12, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

@Ayunipear: feel free to join the discussion above! ObserveOwl (chit-chat • my doings) 23:15, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Rename as 2024 Incident at Donald Trump Rally

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section. A summary of the conclusions reached follows.

Since this is confirmed to be a shooting, the title doesn't need to be renamed to 2024 Incident at Donald Trump Rally. Cwater1 (talk) 23:27, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

---

Maybe rename this as Rename as 2024 Incident at Donald Trump Rally Cwater1 (talk) 23:21, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

I think a title like that would be a little to vague. It's pretty much confirmed at this point it was a shooting. Jcoolbro (talk) (c) 23:22, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

What about 2024 Shooting at Donald Trump Rally? HistoryFanOfItAll1999 (talk) 23:22, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

Support moving to 2024 Donald Trump Pennsylvania rally incident. It would be consistent with 2016 Donald Trump Las Vegas rally incident. Surachit (talk) 23:23, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

I'm not sure any shots were actually fired there though. Were shots fired? Jcoolbro (talk) (c) 23:24, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

Oppose, too vague, also move this to the move discussion

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

suggestion

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.

perhaps change the title to assassination attempt on donald trump if the news finds that it was an attempt or not 2806:265:5480:5BD:19BD:7FEA:C29D:8584 (talk) 23:21, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

refer to https://wiki.riteme.site/wiki/Talk:2024_shooting_at_a_Donald_Trump_rally#Requested_move_13_July_2024 Luunarr (talk) 23:22, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

See above discussion. Jcoolbro (talk) (c) 23:22, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

I agree, this definitely seems like a assassination attempt BigRed606 (talk) 23:23, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

I think so too. HistoryFanOfItAll1999 (talk) 23:23, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

See #Requested move 13 July 2024 SimplyLouis27 (talk) 23:28, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Shooter was on roof

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

---

https://twitter.com/rawsalerts/status/1812269875827765264#m Is twitter a source? 207.96.32.81 (talk) 23:39, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

No 2601:846:57F:B0F0:356C:8CE4:2FD4:5AE9 (talk) 23:40, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

No it's not, per this. LilianaUwU ^{(talk / contributions)} 23:40, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

To add a bit more detail: if the Twitter/X post isn't information about itself, then no - it's not valid. WP:TWITTER Hope this helps. Cheers. LucasR muteacc (talk) 23:41, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 13 July 2024 (2)

Include 2016 Donald Trump Las Vegas rally incident under the "See also" section RidgelantRL (talk) 23:43, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

Already  Done. The link also appears in the navbox. ---Another Believer _(Talk) 23:46, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

Lock talk page to autoconfirmed per WP:FORUM

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

---

It seems like people think this is a place to ask questions, discuss, etc. No, it is not. We need to lock this to autoconfirmed until the dust settles and we have more info.

And to anybody here wanting to TALK: please use online platforms other than WP to express your reaction - 4chan, reddit, twitter, youtube, telegram, facebook, etc. are all good. 2600:1700:7B11:D430:91D4:17DE:AF25:2D5C (talk) 23:45, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

Agree. I'll send it to RFPP. LilianaUwU ^{(talk / contributions)} 23:47, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

Already done. - Fuzheado | Talk 23:48, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

One bystander shot and the shooter both dead

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

---

Yep 2A00:20:3006:C75D:AD1C:AB95:179B:8FDB (talk) 23:44, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2024-election/live-blog/trump-biden-rnc-election-live-updates-rcna161404 Gosh dern (talk) 23:44, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Trump was only hit by a teleprompter shrapnel

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

---

i just saw this at Newsmax and he was not shot directly it was only from the shrapnel from the teleprompter Jatanea (talk) 23:51, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

We don't use Newsmax here. LilianaUwU ^{(talk / contributions)} 23:53, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

Oh im sorry. I did not know Jatanea (talk) 23:55, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Biden Update

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

---

Biden has officially commented on the incident stating he's glad Trump is safe and will be praying for him according to NBC live KoP152 (talk) 23:59, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Two things

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

---

One, the article doesn't mention anything about Trump losing his shoes, which presumably came off when he was swarmed by agents for protection. Second, when more information comes in, it would be interesting to find out about the prevalence of gun violence in that area. I remember reading a very long time ago about the high preponderance of gun crime in Pennsylvania in the late 1960s and 1970s. Others note that Pennsylvania has a public health epidemic of gun violence where one person dies every 6 hours from gun violence. Furthermore, firearm violence is the leading cause of injury-related deaths for adults in that state, and the leading cause of injury-related death for children and teens. Additionally, more state residents in Pennsylvania died from firearms than from motor vehicle accidents in certain years; while almost 62% of firearm deaths in the same state were suicides. Given that Pennsylvania has a public health epidemic of gun violence, and this is the same state where Trump was allegedly shot at, it would be informative to explore this relationship with relevant, reliable sources about the subject. Viriditas (talk) 00:01, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

We'd need to find reliable sources that specifically connect this particular incident with broader gun crime in the area. Thebiguglyalien (talk) 00:05, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

Of course, but a state with a gun violence epidemic poses an existential threat to campaigning politicians. I'm hoping we can cite foreign sources on this relationship, perhaps Retuers, the BBC, ABC, or CBC, because American media sources have been historically reticent to even broach the topic. Viriditas (talk) 00:08, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

See WP:SYNTH. Kingsif (talk) 00:07, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

The incident just occurred and the sources have not yet been written, but it seems reasonable to assume that at least one source will make the connection. Viriditas (talk) 00:09, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

Please keep WP:SPECULATION and WP:DUE in mind. - Fuzheado | Talk 00:12, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

I think it's perfectly reasonable given the origins of the Brady Bill specified below. Viriditas (talk) 00:13, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

Valid observation about the "shoes" concern while being rushed off stage. As for the rest of the comment – we need to be guided by what we see in reputable/notable commentary and give it WP:DUE weight. - Fuzheado | Talk 00:11, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

The incident just occurred and the sources have not yet been written, but it seems reasonable to assume that at least one source will make the connection. Furthermore, this kind of thing is not out of the ordinary. Congress passed the Brady Handgun Violence Prevention Act in part as a response to the attempted assassination of Ronald Reagan. So what I'm talking about has actually happened before and if the past is any indication of the future, could possibly happen again in spite of the influence of the NRA. Viriditas (talk) 00:13, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

Yeah, that's... not how writing articles works on Wikipedia. Pretty clear cut failure to abide by policy if you make edits like that. Thebiguglyalien (talk) 00:14, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

What edits? I said I'm waiting for sources. I created this section as a placeholder to refer back to when they come in. Seems perfectly reasonable and expected. To summarize: Pennsylvania has a gun problem; campaigning politician is shot at; sources might discuss this in the future. End of discussion. Viriditas (talk) 00:16, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Assassination attempt

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.

This was clearly a assassination attempt page title should reflect that KoolKidMitch (talk) 01:04, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

KoolKidMitch You can vote in the requested move here. Bill Williams 01:06, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

See the above discussion. LegalSmeagolian (talk) 01:06, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Was he shot?

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

---

I've seen conflicting reports as to whether he was actually shot. Benpiano800 (talk) 22:42, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

Sky News claims there was blood coming out of his ear, which would imply the bullet hit him. Luunarr (talk) 22:43, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

Could also be injury from the Secret Service agents jumping on top of him. Mårtensås (talk) 22:45, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

He reached for his ear right after you here the first shot and before the secret service run to him 129.13.192.39 (talk) 22:58, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

So far none of the sources seem to clearly say that he was shot. Will become clearer once we know more. Gust Justice (talk) 22:44, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

cnn reported he was injured

https://edition.cnn.com/2024/07/13/politics/trump-injured-pennsylvania-rally/index.html CViB (talk) 23:00, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

because they saw him bleeding. if that was from the shot or something else is unknown. the SS hasn't confirmed anything besides the fact that he's safe Problem$0lved (talk) 23:17, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

NBC News speculates that it came from the shot, hope information comes out soon. Breadstocks (talk) 23:33, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

It appears that he was shot: https://x.com/MerylKornfield/status/1812263916497506711 NorthropChicken (talk) 23:25, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

The phrase "grazed by gunfire" doesn't necessarily mean actually hit with a bullet. Kingsif (talk) 23:32, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

theguardian is saying he possibly got his by glass... presumably from the teleprompter Tdwizew (talk) 23:48, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

Both teleprompters don't appear to be damaged in the close-up views. Worstbull (talk) 00:29, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

We should be using neutral language like "injured in a shooting" rather than shot or grazed or injured by glass until this is confirmed. Mccartneyac (talk) 00:52, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

trump himself confirmed he was shot Tdwizew (talk) 01:02, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

Should we mention that he reached for his ear right after the shots, before he went down? Benjamin (talk) 00:05, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

What's the explanation for how he was injured otherwise? Benjamin (talk) 00:10, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

CNBC commented on the video they released, saying: "Former Pres. Trump could be seen on video contracting his body to the right, clutching his ear and dropping to the ground. What appeared to be blood could be seen on the former president's right ear." However, there has been no official statement released anywhere stating any facts. I'm sure there will be at some point, but until then it's best to leave it out. Maineartists (talk) 00:29, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

Trump's Post on the event on Truth Social confirming he was shot

Trump has confirmed that he has been shot. "I was shot with a bullet that pierced the upper part of my right ear. I knew immediately that something was wrong in that I heard a whizzing sound, shots, and immediately felt the bullet ripping through the skin." JOSHBLY (talk) 00:59, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

This article should be considered for deletion

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

---

WP:V states "that all content must be verifiable with reliable sources". The current article relies on live updates and initial reports, which are often speculative and lack the depth of analysis and confirmation required for long-term encyclopaedic content. In particular, the primary sources include live updates from news outlets such as CNN, BBC, and The Guardian. While these are reputable sources, live reporting is prone to errors and retractions, making it less reliable for establishing verified facts. The article mentions multiple gunshots being heard based on witness accounts and initial reports, but there is no definitive follow-up confirming the exact details of the incident (eg, the identity of the perpetrator or the specific nature of the injuries). WP:NPOV requires articles to be written without bias. Including statements from individuals such as Elon Musk and politicians may introduce subjective opinions, inadvertently swaying the reader's perception. Statements from Elon Musk and political figures denouncing the violence introduce a bias, as they represent specific political and social perspectives.

Wikipedia is not intended to serve as a news outlet per WP:NotNews. It should not cover current events unless they have enduring historical significance. This incident, while significant, may not have the lasting historical impact required for inclusion in an encyclopaedia. Wikipedia's role is to document history rather than provide a running commentary on current events. The article's emphasis on real-time updates and immediate reactions suggests it is more suitable for a news report rather than an encyclopaedic entry, so translate to Wikinews. Wikipedia prohibits the use of unpublished facts, arguments, speculation, and ideas. The article includes speculative elements, such as the motive of the shooter and the broader political implications, which are not backed by solid, published research. Speculations about the political motives behind the shooting or its potential impact on the 2024 upcoming election lack verifiable sources and are inherently speculative.

It might be better suited as a section within a broader article on Donald Trump's political activities or "attempted assassinations" of U.S. presidents. Ultranuevo (talk) 00:33, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

no, it has enough media coverage to have it's own article. Scu ba (talk) 00:35, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

No, irregardless of the Wikipedian craze around this current event it appears to have crossed the threshold of notability to qualify for having it's own article. Raskuly (talk) 00:36, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

Disagree, refer to the existing article on the 2016 Donald Trump Las Vegas rally incident with no noted injuries or fatalities. CompassNNE (talk) 00:41, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

An AfD would be WP:SNOW closed. Come back in 6 or 12 months and with hindsight, and propose a merger if the long-term significance turns out to be minor. Boud (talk) 00:42, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

Agreed. I don't get why anyone would even consider deletion at this point. Do people just enjoy wasting time? Viriditas (talk) 00:45, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

have you read through this talk page? yes. obviously. Scu ba (talk) 00:51, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

Note that Wikinews uses the Creative Commons Attribution 2.5 copyright license, which makes it incompatible to be moved to Wikinews (but not vice-versa), since Wikipedia uses Attribution Share-Alike 4.0. ObserveOwl (chit-chat • my doings) 00:44, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

Any assassination attempt in which a former U.S. President, current U.S. President, or major party U.S. presidential nominee is wounded meets the criteria for a Wikipedia article. OCNative (talk) 01:03, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

There's no way this article will be deleted. I suggest we archive this section. ---Another Believer _(Talk) 01:09, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

See WP:NEVENT for why this kind of article is fine. Fences&Windows 01:10, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Date

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

---

Why does the date section say 1 day ago instead of 2 hours ago? SaturatedFatts (talk) 00:10, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

I presume it's because it is based off UTC+0 SimplyLouis27 (talk) 00:13, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

It's based off of tomorrow's UTC, חבר Woobab (talk) 00:55, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

It's tomorrow in UTC. Kingsif (talk) 00:14, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

It's based off UTC RossoSPC (talk) 00:15, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Dastardly attempt

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.

Edit request to specify that this was a dastardly assassination attempt. Winsalo (talk) 01:18, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

Please read WP:NPOV. C F A 💬 01:24, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

Winsalo You can vote in the requested move here Bill Williams 01:26, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Number of victims

Currently there's no source on the number of victims (other than Donald Trump), despite it saying that there are two victims (one of which being Donald) and one death PikaCookies (talk) 23:24, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

The Guardian is reporting that the would-be assassin and an attendee at the rally are dead. -Ad Orientem (talk) 23:31, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

they is also talk another attendee is severely wounded Tdwizew (talk) 23:46, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

"Shooter" isn't plural

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

---

"The shooter did not undergo security screening as they were reportedly outside the security perimeter of the rally, and was killed by Secret Service snipers soon after the shooting."

Shooter isn't plural. "they were" should be changed to "he was". MisawaSakura (talk) 01:12, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

We do not know the shooter's identity. This is gender neutral. Ornov Ganguly (talk) 01:15, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

From the photos it is obvious that he is a male. Asigooo (talk) 01:28, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

We'll get there once officials announce his name. This is Wikipedia, not a blog. Ornov Ganguly (talk) 01:30, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

Have you asked them? Kingsif (talk) 01:31, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

That sounds like WP:OR to me. – Muboshgu (talk) 01:35, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

Singular they – Muboshgu (talk) 01:28, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

@Muboshgu: They isn't singular. It's plural. The idea of they etc being gender neutral singular is utter nonsense. If people want something like that they need to come up with some new word not twist an existing word into something it isn't. As for it being a man, there's the photo and the fact that practically all gun assassins are male. MisawaSakura (talk) 01:38, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

And singular they is a real thing whether you like it or not. I even linked you to our article about it. – Muboshgu (talk) 01:39, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

Singular they has been in use since the 14th century. Kingsif (talk) 01:41, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

It should be removed simply to avoid confusion. Since you two don't care what I think I don't care what you think. Bottom line, having a word be singular and plural is silly and confusing. MisawaSakura (talk) 01:44, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

My one sheep in that field and my ten sheep in this field all think that your ignorance of grammar is not helping anyone. If you want to wage a war on singular they, Wikipedia is not the place. Kingsif (talk) 01:49, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

NYPost had identified the shooter as a white male, so the singular they is not needed. SeanWheeler (talk) 01:52, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

They means either it was 2 or more shooters, or the shooter was trans. Use he if male, she if female, it if neither or indeterminate. This is basic grammar. And yes Shakespeare etc misused they in the singular, but there was no political or ideological baggage around the term in those days. He is the default pronoun per historical usage, and frankly odds are it will be a male of some description. 人族 (talk) 01:54, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

Yikes. Kingsif (talk) 01:56, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

WP:NYPOST. Kingsif (talk) 01:55, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Three dead

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

---

Fox News has indicated that three, including the shooter and two others, are as of now dead. Ublaz01 (talk) 23:49, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

Nope. Fox isn't reliable for politics on Wikipedia. LilianaUwU ^{(talk / contributions)} 23:52, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

Information on the number of casualties isn't political... but I do agree that further information is needed. NorthropChicken (talk) 00:40, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

Something to keep an eye on, as Fox News is not a perennial reliable source. See what other news orgs report. - Fuzheado | Talk 23:52, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

Ok. Just something to keep an eye on. Ublaz01 (talk) 23:53, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

I think we should see if other news sources say that three are dead. Rynoip (talk) 01:14, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

Watching CNN. They say one rally attendee died and two others were "critically injured". Jcoolbro (talk) (c) 01:15, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 13 July 2024

Change {{Short description|Non-fatal shooting at rally of former U.S. President Donald Trump}} to {{Short description|Fatal shooting at rally of former U.S. President Donald Trump}} RidgelantRL (talk) 23:26, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

WP:RS for this? Donald Trump is confirmed as being safe [1]. SimplyLouis27 (talk) 23:29, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

I am hearing on CNN now that AP reported one attendee is dead Jcoolbro (talk) (c) 23:36, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

Your wording implies that trump was the one who was fatally shot. SimplyLouis27 (talk) 23:38, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

It doesn't. ꧁Zanahary꧂ 00:02, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

From media reports, it appears the dead attendee is the shooter. The shooter shot at Trump, law enforcement returned fire and killed the shooter. SomethingForDeletion (talk) 23:39, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

Update: 2 dead, the shooter and one member of the audience. SomethingForDeletion (talk) 00:30, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

It should be left as "shooting at rally of former U.S. President Donald Trump." Cwater1 (talk) 23:30, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

I don't see the need to include 'former US president', Donald Trump is not going to be confused with anyone else, and a short description is supposed to be short. WhoAteMyButter (🌷_talk│🌻^contribs) 23:32, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

That wording implies that Trump was killed. Benpiano800 (talk) 23:33, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

Sorry mate RidgelantRL (talk) 23:45, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

Single source: "Shooter and one audience member reportedly dead"

AP and Washington Post are reporting this, though it's from only one local DA, and not from the Secret Service or any federal government spokesperson. Take with a grain of salt:

• Washington Post reporter via Twitter - https://x.com/MerylKornfield/status/1812263916497506711

  Butler county district attorney Richard Goldinger tells me Trump was grazed by gunfire but is safe. An audience member was killed and the shooter is dead. Another person is in serious condition, the prosecutor said.

• Associated Press - https://apnews.com/live/election-biden-trump-campaign-updates-07-13-2024

If added, I would suggest it needs this context, and not simply be stated as a fact as of now. - Fuzheado | Talk 23:41, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2024-election/live-blog/trump-biden-rnc-election-live-updates-rcna161404 NBC as well Gosh dern (talk) 23:44, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

It's the same source - Butler County's district attorney – so we should seek more corroboration. We've been down this 'fog of confusion' road before when reporting on breaking news in Wikipedia and need to be more discerning. - Fuzheado | Talk 00:02, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

@Fuzheado AP News is a reliable source. Wikipedia is meant to mirror the facts of reliable sources. There is no reason to "take this as a grain of salt" Cobblebricks (talk) 23:56, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

One WP:RSP source reporting one utterance from one individual does not equal a verifiable fact. - Fuzheado | Talk 23:59, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

In fairness, this district attorney is the one for the county where the shooting took place. OCNative (talk) 00:08, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

Adding that Trump also said a bullet hit his ear. Jcoolbro (talk) (c) 00:59, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

Adding Obama statement

Can someone add [former President Obama's statement](https://x.com/BarackObama/status/1812271849893442018) to the "Aftermath" section? Opportunity Rover (talk) 00:34, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

It was added, but removed for some reason. I think it should be added. LuxembourgLover (talk) 00:35, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

This. Ultranuevo (talk) 00:36, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

• #Please let's not turn the article into a reaction farm Kingsif (talk) 00:39, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

Image

Alternative image choices:

https://static01.nyt.com/images/2024/07/13/world/13trump-shooting-combo/13trump-shooting-combo-superJumbo.jpg

https://static01.nyt.com/images/2024/07/13/multimedia/reporter-update-shot-fist-jtgv/reporter-update-shot-fist-jtgv-superJumbo.jpg

JOSHBLY (talk) 00:46, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

Both are the property of the photographer, likely one from the NY Times. Review WP:NFCC before scraping images off a google search, please. Zaathras (talk) 00:48, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

RCP language use

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2024/07/13/trump_survives_assassination_attempt_at_pa_rally_shooter_dead.html I.am.a.qwerty (talk) 00:49, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

Language

The page feels like it’s written as a dramatic retelling of the “harrowing events of Donald Trump” being filled with flowery language which comes of as heavily biased towards Trump. The articles image description speaks perfectly to this with the unecessary usage of “Bloodied” coming off as a vanity piece more than an informative article, I think this should be reworded and should have higher levels of protection in place as many edit wars will likely be waged on such a hot topic here. InternetEnigma (talk) 01:27, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

• InternetEnigma: For edit requests, you have to suggest alternate language for specific examples, not cite a general problem. For instance, not only is his face generally described as "bloodied," I also personally believe that such a description is accurate and representative. TE(æ)A,ea. (talk) 01:30, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

There are multiple above discussions on inclusion of the image. What do you think would be a good alternative to the image description? Jcoolbro (talk) (c) 01:29, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

There isn't a higher level of protection other than full protection, which restricts editing to only administrators. C F A 💬 01:30, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

Requested edit - add Australian PM and Apple CEO's responses

Under Responses - Others, add:

Apple CEO Tim Cook tweeted that his "thoughts are with him, the other victims and the Trump family", adding that he strongly condemns the violence.

Source: https://x.com/tim_cook/status/1812291847378600366

Under Responses - International, add:

Australian prime minister Anthony Albanese tweeted that the "incident at former President Trump’s campaign event in Pennsylvania today is concerning and confronting", stating that there is "no place for violence in the democratic process" and that he is relieved to hear that Trump is now safe.

Source: https://x.com/AlboMP/status/1812283047070642508 Luminism (talk) 01:28, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

Oppose This is getting out of control. Response discussion is here: https://wiki.riteme.site/wiki/Talk:2024_shooting_at_a_Donald_Trump_rally#Please_let's_not_turn_the_article_into_a_reaction_farm Ornov Ganguly (talk) 01:31, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

The Apple CEO one I understand, but is adding the response of the leader one of America's staunchest allies (i.e. Australia) really 'reaction farming'? Luminism (talk) 01:32, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

 Done per other similar figures reactions being present. Jcoolbro (talk) (c) 01:40, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

Thanks! Luminism (talk) 01:43, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

 Not done I don't beleive we should add random CEO's and all world leaders nessisarily. See Talk:2024 shooting at a Donald Trump rally#Please let's not turn the article into a reaction farm Jcoolbro (talk) (c) 01:33, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

In reference to the above - I also want to note that the New Zealand PM's response was added, and considering the ties Australia has to the US (see AUKUS)... Luminism (talk) 01:34, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

Forget about the Apple CEO one, that's fine if it's not added. But if New Zealand can be added, then I think Australia should be too, given how close Australia's ties are to the US. If your view is that New Zealand is more relevant to Trump and the US than Australia is, then I see no reason for me to waste my time on this point. Luminism (talk) 01:40, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

No international leaders need to be here right now. You are not reading what either of us are writing. Ornov Ganguly (talk) 01:41, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

But many are. I think its fair to add it for the moment at least since similar leaders are present. Jcoolbro (talk) (c) 01:43, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

Why are any of them here? Opening the door even more is not a reasonable solution. The article size is snowballing and it is mostly consolidated in this section, just to say "We hope Trump's okay" for every country on earth. Ornov Ganguly (talk) 01:46, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

I agree with you, and think we should trim it down and maybe even just include a generic statement about how many leaders condemned it. I just thought it was a reasonable edit request considering the other figures that are present in the section. I see it was removed so I will let it remain how it is. Jcoolbro (talk) (c) 01:49, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

Someone tried to assassinate a former (and likely next) US President. Do you really think the reaction & response from other world leaders (in particular, America's greatest ally) isn't relevant?

If you want precedent on this:

https://wiki.riteme.site/wiki/Attempted_assassination_of_Imran_Khan#International

https://wiki.riteme.site/wiki/Attempted_assassination_of_Cristina_Fern%C3%A1ndez_de_Kirchner#Aftermath

https://wiki.riteme.site/wiki/Stabbing_of_Salman_Rushdie#Other_nations

https://wiki.riteme.site/wiki/2020_Barquisimeto_shooting#International

https://wiki.riteme.site/wiki/2007_Karsaz_bombing#Other_countries

https://wiki.riteme.site/wiki/Attempted_assassination_of_Robert_Fico#International

https://wiki.riteme.site/wiki/Attempted_assassination_of_Mustafa_Al-Kadhimi#International

https://wiki.riteme.site/wiki/2018_Caracas_drone_attack#International

https://wiki.riteme.site/wiki/2018_Bulawayo_bombing#International_reactions Luminism (talk) 01:50, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

To avoid WP:WAR I'm not going to edit it again, but I believe it is as relevant as any other of the figures currently listed. However, many leaders have commented on it, and I'm sure many more will. The section doesn't need to be full of reactions from every country in the world. Jcoolbro (talk) (c) 01:55, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

Would like at least a logical reason for it being subsequently removed, @Harizotoh9? Luminism (talk) 01:56, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

I grant you this, but I still notice a trend in these articles: compression. The Bulawayo consolidates the condemnations. The issue is that these do not relate to action necessarily. There is a lack of consistency in those articles' methods of displaying the reactions because it is not Wikipedia's aim to list what "allies" think of everything. If Albanese decides to up his personal security by 500% and the media reports on it as being a result of Trump getting shot, we can put it in. Otherwise, where will it end? Finally, I am telling you to please take this to the correct discussion section. Ornov Ganguly (talk) 01:57, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

Compression is fine, but as it stands, the article is not compressed, and as it stands, other world leaders, NZ's foreign minister, former foreign world leaders (including Liz Truss, who was UK PM for less than two months???), and Opposition Leaders (i.e. Canada) are included. How does that make sense to keep? Luminism (talk) 02:04, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

See WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS. Just because it's in other articles doesn't make it notable. Given that essentially all the reactions are just "we hope he's ok", no point except maybe as a blanket statement. Maybe something like "The incident has gained sympathy from other world leaders. Biden in particular wished for his health, alongside the PM of Australia and NZ." guninvalid (talk) 01:59, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

AR-15 style rifle or other gun

We do not yet know what gun was used, so I think we should leave off any speculation until we know what was used in this shooting. Iljhgtn (talk) 01:31, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

It was confirmed by the Secret Service. C F A 💬 01:33, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

Cited now in article. I knew this would be confirmed fairly quickly. As more sources are found we can add those to the article too in order to solidify the reliability of that claim. Iljhgtn (talk) 01:44, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

BLPCRIME

Does WP:BLPCRIME apply to the (alleged) shooter at this point? Staraction (talk | contribs) 02:14, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

Since BLP applies to RDs, no reason it shouldn't. Kingsif (talk) 02:16, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

Thought so. Thanks. Staraction (talk | contribs) 02:16, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

Rename

I think Attempted assassination of Donald Trump would be a better title, per example of Attempted assassination of Ronald Reagan. There's no reason why 2024 should be specified in this specific situation since it was the first to happen. Luunarr (talk) 22:53, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

agreed 24.115.255.37 (talk) 22:54, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

If and when the sources tell us it was unequivocally an assassination attempt, I agree. Dumuzid (talk) 22:57, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

Unkown at this time if it was an attemted assasination. Give it a bit CitrusHemlock 23:12, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

Given reporting on his injury, as well as precedent for former presidents where an attempt was made made(See: Attempted assassination of Theodore Roosevelt), the move to attempted assassination is appropriate. Foreheadman (talk) 23:17, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

Agreed also. Eastwood Park and strabane (talk) 23:21, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

Agreed 2605:8D80:5C0:E1D2:63CD:9DDB:B0CC:6683 (talk) 23:25, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

Agreed SpringField23402 (talk) 23:31, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

Disagree. We do not yet know if this was an assassination attempt, much less if Trump was the actual target. It certainly seems likely, but the shooter may have, for example, been trying to kill someone else. Or he may have been trying to just wound Trump, rather than kill him. Stick with reliable information for now. -- Nat Gertler (talk) 23:49, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

we don't know that it was an assassination attempt in the same way we don't know if 1+1=2 Aamori1212 (talk) 02:43, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

Agreed. Icrin7 (talk) 02:53, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

The shooter was clearly intending to hit Trump. Trump was injured in the process. We can definitely say that it was an assassination attempt. TheSarosCycle (talk) 03:51, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

Agreed. It is candidly absurd to suggest that the target wasn't Trump and that the bullet that seemingly struck his ear was intended merely to harm. This was clearly an assassination attempt. -- justdweezil (talk) 00:34, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

It's being investigated as an attempted assassination, so that feels like it's good enough evidence to rename the article Mccartneyac (talk) 00:53, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

Agreed, it is being also currently investigated as a assassination attempt. Rynoip (talk) 01:15, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

i agree with this Epic.Rap.Battles.ofhistoryfan42 (talk) 02:30, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

I agree completely. Lostfan333 (talk) 02:50, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

Agreed. This is wholly balanced and appropriates. SiennaVue (talk) 02:56, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

Agreed. At the very least, “2024” should be removed from the title—no need to distinguish this from any other shootings, since there aren’t any. PencilSticks0823 (talk) 03:13, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

This is likely an attempted assassination, however I would wait a bit until more information is available. Unless reliable sources directly state this is an assassination we can’t rename the page. SKAG123 (talk) 03:17, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

Reliable sources directly state this was an assassination attempt. The Whitehouse used “political violence.” Icrin7 (talk) 03:24, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

I partially agree, per recently revealed information. "Attempted assassination of Donald Trump" seems the best. Raskuly (talk) 03:39, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

Agreed. FBI lead investigator says shooting was assassination attempt.

source: https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2024/07/13/donald-trump-rushed-off-stage-secret-service-rally/74396110007/ ChillinDillon52 (talk) 04:13, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

I think it should be called the "Trump rally shooting" or the "Butler, Pennsylvania rally shooting" because someone died here. Naming it after Trump unduly erases that person. Darkfrog24 (talk) 02:56, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

Donald Trump’s rally. Icrin7 (talk) 03:26, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

It's definitely a major tragedy for that person's family and friends, but the reason the event is historically significant is because Trump, a major-party candidate for president and former president, was nearly killed by an assassin. See assassination of John F. Kennedy - an unlucky policeman was also shot dead by Oswald that day but it would be certainly undue to mention him in the title. Bremps... 03:44, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

The suggestion that we don't know that this was an assassination attempt is either (1) blatant political editorialization, or (2) epistemological sophistry that insults the intelligence of everyone that comes to this website. This site should be embarrassed for the fact that this is even a debate right now. Velostodon (talk) 03:13, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

They revealed it was an assassination attempt. SpringField23402 (talk) 03:24, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

Amen. Bremps... 03:45, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

Title

"Shooting" might be taken to imply that the attack was fatal. I propose moving to "2024 Donald Trump assassination attempt". Mårtensås (talk) 22:44, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

But we do not know yet if it was an actuall assasination attempt? Tinkaer1991 (talk) 22:51, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

If/when it comes out that it was an assassination attempt (i doubt it wont), we should just call it Donald Trump assassination attempt. In the meantime, we should call it smthn like "Donald Trump PA rally incident/shooting"Nojus R (talk) 22:53, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

Yes i agree. Tinkaer1991 (talk) 22:54, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

Agreed, but I am not even sure "shooting" is appropriate at this point: none of the reliable sources state that unequivocally. Dumuzid (talk) 22:56, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

Fox, CNN, ABC, NBC, and Trump have called this a shooting. Trump personally confirmed that was shot via TruthSocial. Icrin7 (talk) 03:37, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

I agree in principle but the current title "2024 shooting at a Donald Trump rally" is a bit awkward. Pickle Mon (talk) 23:00, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

I surely agree, maybe "incident" would be more appropriate Tinkaer1991 (talk) 23:02, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

Atleast until we have more information about the plot behind Tinkaer1991 (talk) 23:04, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

It's the indefinite article I was talking about Pickle Mon (talk) 23:04, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

i mean getting shot at is by definition an "Assassination's attempt" especially when you're a high stake politician

https://edition.cnn.com/2024/07/13/politics/trump-injured-pennsylvania-rally/index.html CViB (talk) 23:06, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

We don't know the alledged assassin's intentions, and therefore cannot yet rule it to be an assassination attempt. Tinkaer1991 (talk) 23:13, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

This entire line of discussion is unbelievable, and a clear example of why Wikipedia has a credibility problem. We don't need to stand by and refuse to call this what it obviously is, and what numerous outlets have already confirmed. The reluctance to do so reeks of political bias. agomulka (talk) 03:28, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

As of right now, the page title should stay as is, but I agree that the name could be changed to something more informational. Silaaaaaa (talk) 23:20, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

"Shooting" could also imply that it was a mass shooting so I think your title is better, though I do also think we should wait before moving in case it's labeled something else. Articles about mass shootings simply say "shooting" in their title. As it stands I believe both CNN and Fox report that there were multiple shots fired but only Donald Trump and one bystander are confirmed to be struck but both still alive and receiving urgent care. Please correct me if I'm mistaken. LegendoftheGoldenAges85 of the  East  (talk | worse talk) 23:25, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

My last statement is wrong. Donald Trump and one bystander are hurt but in care; a second bystander was killed, as of right now. LegendoftheGoldenAges85 of the  East  (talk | worse talk) 23:34, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

Support - sounds more professional; current title sounds awkward Enoryt nwased lamaj (talk) 23:57, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

@Mårtensås I'm not sure how "shooting" implies it was fatal. Shots were fired; it is a shooting. "Shooting of Donald Trump" would be the best title in my opinion as the media is most commonly referring to this as a shooting. Cobblebricks (talk) 23:59, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

But it looks as of now as he was not, in fact, shot (but hit by glass shrapnel). Dumuzid (talk) 00:00, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

"Shooting of Donald Trump" was the title when I wrote the comment above. Mårtensås (talk) 00:02, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

The current title suggests Trump was not the target, that there was merely shooting at unspecified targets at the rally. Assuming this is not the case - TBD obviously, then a name change should occur. Note there is already at least one link to this article in a Trump assassination attempt paragraph. 人族 (talk) 01:49, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

I prefer 2024 Donald Trump rally shooting. Less wordy KD0710 (talk) 02:16, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

The attack was fatal. Bremps... 03:34, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

Trump survived, but not a rallygoer. Bremps... 03:34, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

Keep for now but eventually go to Donald trump assassination attempt. A section could be dedicated to different aspects obviously including others besides trump hurt killed etc. the title is awkward and needs to be changed at one point way too wordy. IEditPolitics (talk) 03:40, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

Title of article

Why is it called “shooting”? it was very clearly an assassination attempt. Joshsintrests (talk) 03:21, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

@Joshsintrests: See #Requested move 13 July 2024. — Red-tailed hawk _(nest) 03:22, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

Pretty sure Assassination was the initial title before someone moved the page Trade (talk) 03:23, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

its an assassination attempt. call it one.

its an assassination attempt. call it one. Jaygo113 (talk) 03:34, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

Please see Talk:2024_shooting_at_a_Donald_Trump_rally#Requested_move_13_July_2024. Staraction (talk | contribs) 03:36, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

If we just listened to one dude, we'd be all over the place. See #Requested move 13 July 2024. It seems like there is a high probability this will end up being included in the title. Raskuly (talk) 03:37, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

Jaygo113 if you support moving the article then vote at #Requested move 13 July 2024. Bill Williams 03:46, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

Gunnger has been IDed by FBI

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2024-election/live-blog/trump-biden-rnc-election-live-updates-rcna161404#rcrd45892 Thomas Matthew Crooks, Von bismarck (talk) 05:59, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

 Already done: Article was already updated. C F A 💬 06:03, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

Gunnger has been IDed by FBI

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2024-election/live-blog/trump-biden-rnc-election-live-updates-rcna161404#rcrd45892 Thomas Matthew Crooks, Von bismarck (talk) 05:59, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

 Already done: Article was already updated. C F A 💬 06:03, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

"pubic officials"

The second sentence under the heading "Increasing support for political violence during the 2024 election" in the Background section reads "The fears come amidst increasing threats and acts of physical violence targeting pubic officials and election workers at all levels of government." I believe "pubic" should be changed to "public". Tcd88 (talk) 05:49, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

Outdated info needs removal

The article currently says "According to Butler County district attorney Richard Goldinger, authorities have yet to determine his identity." However, later in the article, he is named. It appears that line I quoted is outdated and should be removed. JMM12345 (talk) 05:51, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

 Done — Red-tailed hawk _(nest) 05:58, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

Capitalization

"assassination" in the artical name needs capitalized Tdwizew (talk) 06:08, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

Read WP:NCCAPS. This is policy. Bill Williams 06:10, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

"Assassination"

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

---

Please, I beg of you all, do not add that this was an "assassination attempt", including in categories, until we know for sure that it was one. Mind WP:BREAKING. – Muboshgu (talk) 00:17, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

And WP:RSBREAKING... Kingsif (talk) 00:29, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

I mean given the hyperreality of the situation, I'm pretty sure the circumstances call to suggest this might be an assassination attempt. Woobab (talk) 00:52, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

Ah you're right! it could've been anything! someone clambered onto a rooftop overlooking a trump rally with a rifle and shot him in the ear because he didnt wan't to assassinate him! It could've been anything! Scu ba (talk) 00:53, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

If you want to break journalistic standards by prematurely declaring something an assassination attempt before the investigating parties say it for certain, you can do it at a tabloid. Which us here who know about sourcing on Wikipedia wouldn't use as an RS while waiting for actual confirmation. Kingsif (talk) 00:57, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

Journalistic? I thought we were not news? Regardless, I don't see what in the world this could be other than an assassination attempt, doesn't take a genius to figure this one out. Kline • talk • contribs 01:39, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

You know what I mean. Which also answers your second sentence: Wikipedia is not here to figure it out, and anyone who claims they have before the people doing the investigating announce it, isn't an acceptable source. Kingsif (talk) 01:43, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

I’m sorry but this is ridiculous, did Dallas in 63 think it was “just a shooting”?

they knew it was an assassination attempt, they watched Kennedy get shot. Instead for them it was successful. Joshsintrests (talk) 03:23, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

Yeah, and then a formal investigation came to the same conclusion. We'd be having this same discussion if we had the same WP:V policy and were discussing it in real-time back then. Kingsif (talk) 03:27, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

They conducted an investigation to find the motive and the exact course of events

not to figure out whether it was an assassination attempt or not Joshsintrests (talk) 04:11, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

What would it be if not an assassination attempt? USA1855 (talk) 01:06, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

His ear just did that, it was crazy. Ryonne (talk) 02:34, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

Yeah!

the gunman just happened to fire at a major and controversial politician and almost kill him

what else could it even be? Joshsintrests (talk) 03:24, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

Completely agree. Best deny the label of “assassination” and call it “shooting” instead! Why do we even have this article? Shootings happen every day! Icrin7 (talk) 03:30, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

The FBI, As reported by CNN and NBC has called it an assassination attempt.

https://www.cnn.com/politics/live-news/election-biden-trump-07-13-24/index.html

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/secret-service-rushes-trump-stage-shots-fired-pennsylvania-rally-rcna161735 Helpingtoclarify (talk) 04:21, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

This WAS an assassination attempt. Lostfan333 (talk) 04:31, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

This was clearly an assassination attempt and anything else is utterly absurd. Wikipedia's integrity is coming into question. justdweezil (talk) 03:13, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

Exactly Joshsintrests (talk) 03:23, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

100% agree. All sources call this an attempted assassination. It appears that some Wikipedians simply do not want to acknowledge that the attempt occurred and want to deny it. Icrin7 (talk) 03:32, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

Hit the nail on the head Joshsintrests (talk) 04:10, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

Exactly. Even if most reliable secondary sources do not call it an assassination attempt, I would still argue that a case could be made for including either "assassination", or something similar, to the title (especially taking WP:COMMONSENSE in to account).

The current title of the article does not provide as much context as it can provide, given that "shooting" is incredibly vague and so could easily be taken to mean that the target was the crowd, or that the shooting may have been done only by the Secret Service, it does not clarify these things.

A great portion of this talk page reeks of political bias. I know everyone (including me lol) is biased in some form, but it is still frustrating, as too much of it seems to be coming from one side. (Discuss 0nshore's contributions!!!) 04:33, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Language

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

---

The page feels like it’s written as a dramatic retelling of the “harrowing events of Donald Trump” being filled with flowery language which comes of as heavily biased towards Trump. The articles image description speaks perfectly to this with the unecessary usage of “Bloodied” coming off as a vanity piece more than an informative article, I think this should be reworded and should have higher levels of protection in place as many edit wars will likely be waged on such a hot topic here. InternetEnigma (talk) 01:27, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

• InternetEnigma: For edit requests, you have to suggest alternate language for specific examples, not cite a general problem. For instance, not only is his face generally described as "bloodied," I also personally believe that such a description is accurate and representative. TE(æ)A,ea. (talk) 01:30, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

  The term bloodied was only a problem in the specific highlighted issue of the image caption as it sounds more like a headline to a newspaper than an informative encyclopedia article, the article itself was riddled with such problems when I made this which is why I made a discussion about it it felt way too much like a tabloid than Wikipedia. InternetEnigma (talk) 05:27, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

There are multiple above discussions on inclusion of the image. What do you think would be a good alternative to the image description? Jcoolbro (talk) (c) 01:29, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

There isn't a higher level of protection other than full protection, which restricts editing to only administrators. C F A 💬 01:30, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Requested edit

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

---

Remove the paragraph at the bottom of background, the one about the vote share in the 2020 election. Paragraph is irrelevant. guninvalid (talk) 01:37, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

This one: "In 2020, Trump won 65 percent of the vote in Butler, Pennsylvania—the site of the rally—compared to Biden's 33%.[13]" guninvalid (talk) 01:43, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

Hi @Guninvalid, can you explain why it's irrelevant? I personally think it is relevant, with the opportunity to build on background on the rally itself. Staraction (talk | contribs) 01:45, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

Maybe, but it's not relevant to the shooting. At the end of the day, it would'nt've mattered whether this happened in a county that voted Trump or Biden or Santa Claus. It may speak to why Trump had the rally there in the first place, thus being relevant to the rally, but the shooting has almost nothing to do with it. guninvalid (talk) 01:49, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

I'm mostly considering that we might want to add more information about the rally in the future, when things have stabilized a bit. Better to include the information now so people don't have to go searching for it later. But, if another editor wants to remove it, I won't object. Staraction (talk | contribs) 02:00, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

I would remove it myself but I don't have edit perms. Maybe that's a good thing guninvalid (talk) 02:05, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

Removing it, but preserving the comment here for posterity:

In 2020, Trump won 65% of the vote in Butler County, Pennsylvania—where the rally was held—compared to Biden's 33%. https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2024/07/13/trump-rally-butler-pennsylvania-shooting/74396188007/

Ornov Ganguly (talk) 02:19, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

Good work. Viriditas (talk) 03:03, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Far-right accelerationist terrorism

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

---

Adding this here as a placeholder as the suspect is said to now be a Republican. If true, sources may investigate the notion of far-right accelerationist terrorism, which we saw it play out during the BLM protests. Viriditas (talk) 06:38, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

Is there a source that links this person to a far-right accelerationist movement, or is this just general discussion? — Red-tailed hawk _(nest) 06:40, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

NYT reported the suspect was a registered Republican 17 minutes ago. Viriditas (talk) 06:43, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

That's not what was asked. KiharaNoukan (talk) 06:44, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

This isn't a forum to speculate on the motives of the shooter. EvergreenFir (talk) 06:46, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

Agreed. The motive is as yet unknown and the authorities are not speculating on them. It may be that the shooter doesn't even have a logical motive, like the 1981 attempted Reagan assassination. They are presently searching his house, so hopefully, if they find a manifesto, we'll find out about it. Titanium Dragon (talk) 07:44, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

What is the point of posts like these? We’re not honing our predictions for how the media will treat this. This feels like general discussion in disguise. ꧁Zanahary꧂ 07:58, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Requested move 13 July 2024

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: page moved from 2024 shooting at a Donald Trump rally to Attempted assassination of Donald Trump. A brief note for those curious re this process: Wikipedia's editorial processes (and indeed the software we use to edit it) are not really designed around extremely rapid breaking-news items, so even though mostly everyone (128 to 17) supported moving it, it still took a few hours, and in the process of executing the move I had to mess around with a bunch of crap. It takes a while for us to get around to stuff, you are just going to have to deal with it, unless they decide to make the software work better at auto-resolving edit/move conflicts. jp×g🗯️ 04:35, 14 July 2024 (UTC) jp×g🗯️ 04:35, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

---

2024 shooting at a Donald Trump rally → 2024 assassination attempt of Donald Trump – High usage of the term attempted assassination. Prior to administrator protection, this was the article title and an administrator, without discussion, moved it to the current name. Sources: [2][3][4][5][6][7][8][9] The Weather Event Writer (Talk Page) 23:04, 13 July 2024 (UTC) The Weather Event Writer (Talk Page) 23:04, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

• PLEASE WAIT until we get some non-breaking-news sources, its impossible to gauge a COMMONNAME this early. – Hilst [talk] 23:06, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

I'm not going to go with any "wait" ideas, given an administrator moved it away from that title with 0 discussion. It was the title prior to administrator protection, and a single person determined the current name. Nah, a discussion needs to happen. The Weather Event Writer (Talk Page) 23:08, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

I don't think that's a good solution. If the overall consensus from the discussion is that waiting is the best course of action then that is what should happen. ~OneRandomBrit | User Page | Talk 01:54, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

Trump rally shooting is being investigated as an assassination attempt, officials say https://apnews.com/article/trump-vp-vance-rubio-7c7ba6b99b5f38d2d840ed95b2fdc3e5

Authorities Investigating Rally Shooting as Assassination Attempt, Official Says

https://www.wsj.com/livecoverage/trump-rally-incident/card/authorities-investigating-rally-shooting-as-assassination-attempt-official-says-O5l7DXuMcPRfvfdECEn0

The assassination attempt of former President Donald Trump is clearly being investigated as an assassination attempt by federal officials per AP and WSJ. Atinus21 (talk) 03:56, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

FBI called it an "assassination attempt" at the press conference. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I9-eqTvuxlw Atinus21 (talk) 04:00, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

• I'd support a move to Attempted assassination of Donald Trump since none of the other assassination attempts against him (such as the ricin one) were nearly as notable as this one. Nythar (💬-🍀) 23:06, 13 July 2024 (UTC)
• (edit conflict)+1 Hilst, although "2024 Donald Trump rally shooting" is probably better than current title. Queen of Hearts ^talk 23:07, 13 July 2024 (UTC)
• Oppose- Not confirmed SimplyLouis27 (talk) 23:08, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

@SimplyLouis27: WP:VNT. Do you have proof/sources that it was not confirmed or is not the common term? I listed 8 sources above using it. Sorry, but SNOWCLOSE isn't a valid thing for this, with a "not confirmed" reasoning because Wikipedia doesn't care about what is or isn't confirmed. Only what is verifiable, which "attempted assassination" is as presented above. If you wish to oppose, you can, but please provide a valid oppose reasoning via Wikipedia's policy. The Weather Event Writer (Talk Page) 23:10, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

WP:RS SimplyLouis27 (talk) 23:14, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

The majority of those sources are low quality tabloids. Traumnovelle (talk) 00:04, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

This is ridiculous.

it was obviously an assassination attempt

his ear was shot and the man who was shot was in the vicinity of the firing line

it was clearly an assassination attempt on Trump. Joshsintrests (talk) 03:30, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

• Oppose for now, let's wait until there is a general consensus in reliable sources. There is no deadline. Isaidnoway (talk) 23:14, 13 July 2024 (UTC)
• Oppose and wait, we still do not know the motive of the perpetrator(s), It's possible it was not the goal to harm Trump but simply shoot at the rally. There is more information we should wait for. I believe we can move when it is confirmed an assassination was the goal. Bigfatman8766 (talk) 23:19, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

Note: WikiProject Current events, WikiProject Politics, WikiProject Donald Trump, WikiProject United States, WikiProject Crime and Criminal Biography, WikiProject Pennsylvania, and WikiProject United States History have been notified of this discussion. RodRabelo7 (talk) 23:13, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

• Oppose, with the amount of edits going through, it would not be good to move this early. ElusiveTaker^(talk) 23:17, 13 July 2024 (UTC)
• Support This article already says that it was an assignation attempt in the side bar. Others of list many sources calling it this, and here is one. CavDan24 (talk) 23:19, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

  See WP:NYPOST - There is consensus the New York Post is generally unreliable for factual reporting, especially with regard to politics. Isaidnoway (talk) 23:22, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

• Support Clearly was an assassination attempt, shots were fired and Donald Trump was injured. BigRed606 (talk) 23:25, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

  No WP:RS has confirmed this, saying it was and assassination attempt is currently speculation. SimplyLouis27 (talk) 23:27, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

  I'm saying this with no disrespect, but you are either as blind as a bat or just being really ignorant. There is 8 RS listed in the proposal saying it was an assassination attempt. Since this is now the 2nd time your mentioned RS not using it, I'm specifically calling out the 8 sources above. If you still say RS as an oppose reasoning, take all eight sources to WP:RSN to get a consensus on their reliability. The Weather Event Writer (Talk Page) 23:29, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

  With respect, most of those are not RS, or should not be taken as RS on such matters when well-established political and national news media are not saying something. The rest are just repeating verbatim what the first lot said. But they're just hyperbolic for clicks, because until there is intelligence about the situation, it cannot be said conclusively, and no RS worth its salt is going to effectively influence the immediate intelligence-gathering by putting such a statement out there. Kingsif (talk) 23:37, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

  the sources you listed aren't exactly well known media organisations. For example, the BBC make not mention of this being a assassination attempt. [10]. Also, please don't call other editors ignorant its quite rude and condescending. SimplyLouis27 (talk) 23:37, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

  The BBC have said it was an assassination attempt here. All my warmest wishes, ItsKesha (talk) 03:29, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

  User:WeatherWriter, if you cannot recognize a bad source when you see it, or if you cannot list sources that qualify per RS, then maybe you should stay out of contentious topics. Drmies (talk) 00:12, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

  what do you usually call a politician almost getting his fucking brains blown out? IsaacIdawg91 (talk) 01:44, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

  Please, do not engage in exaggeration; it's not going to help the situation any. And, at this time, there is nothing indicating that Donald Trump was in any danger of "getting his f*cking brains blown out". In an effort to keep things civil here, it does appear that Trump ended up with some kind of injury to the back top of his right ear; however, due to the constantly evolving news environment, it's not yet confirmed how he ended up with that injury. ClarkKentWannabe (talk) 02:44, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

  This is just rationalized baseless denial Joshsintrests (talk) 03:31, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

• Support but wait: It was pretty clearly an assassination attempt; however, I'm willing to wait for more reliable sources describing it as such. No objections, either, to calling it "2024 shooting of Donald Trump", or something simple in that respect; I strongly dislike the current name, which is wordy and falls flat on encyclopedic guidelines. — Javert2113 (Siarad.|¤) 23:25, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

  "2024 shooting of Donald Trump" implies that it would be fatal. "Attempted assassination" or "Assassination attempt" are more accurate descriptions. Potomokbelogobarsa (talk) 00:18, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

  Why would shooting imply that it is fatal? People survive gunshots sometimes. JMM12345 (talk) 01:36, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

• Wait — No conclusions should be drawn at this time. elijahpepe@wikipedia (he/him) 23:26, 13 July 2024 (UTC)
• Support His ear was literally shot, and the shooter was clearly aiming for his head. Had the shooter succeeded and killed him it would have been referred to as an assassination. PlanetDeadwing (talk) 23:29, 13 July 2024 (UTC)
• Wait until we know more. Benpiano800 (talk) 23:28, 13 July 2024 (UTC)
• Wait until the motive of the attack becomes clear. Wikipedia1010121 (talk) 23:28, 13 July 2024 (UTC)
• Support But wait, clearly was an attempt to assasinate. MildLoser (talk) 23:29, 13 July 2024 (UTC)
• Support: County prosecutor has confirmed he was grazed by gunfire and the current title is not encyclopedic. natemup (talk) 23:29, 13 July 2024 (UTC)
• Support: Multiple sources are now confirming that shots were fired and that the shooter is dead. 2001:569:6FFC:F901:8C20:E381:3B92:7FDC (talk) 23:31, 13 July 2024 (UTC)
• Support but wait I think most people can agree that's what it is but we need 1000% proof first. Pickle Mon (talk) 23:30, 13 July 2024 (UTC)
• Support for now, but we should wait. Almost every media source I can find explores the potential of "assassination attempt", even if they also refer to it as a shooting; though there is as of yet no official classification. Let's wait—but given current information, support is the way to go. LegendoftheGoldenAges85 of the  East  (talk | worse talk) 23:30, 13 July 2024 (UTC)
• Speedy support - Confirmed assassination attempt. Poxy4 (talk) 23:31, 13 July 2024 (UTC)
• Wait even though signs point to assassination. Still wait. Jcoolbro (talk) (c) 23:32, 13 July 2024 (UTC)
• Support but wait There are no official versions yet whether Trump was the main target of the assassination attempt or not, but it is obvious that he was. I suggest waiting for the official version of law enforcement agencies about whether Trump was the main target, and if they confirm that he was, then change the page name.  PLATEL  (talk) 23:32, 13 July 2024 (UTC)
• Support but wait. We are getting to a point where the media will say this is attempted, but I think there we should wait. However, shouldn't this be like "Assassination Attempt of Donald Trump" (omitting the year, to be in line with Reagan's article) 49p (talk) 23:34, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

It would in that case be Attempted assassination of Donald Trump based on the Ronald Reagan article (and many, many other articles). LegendoftheGoldenAges85 of the  East  (talk | worse talk) 23:41, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

Yeah that's what I meant to say. Year won't be relevant to the article's title unless something changes in the near future. 49p (talk) 23:58, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

• Support and wait All information pointing to intentional shooting, but wait for more news NorthropChicken (talk) 23:35, 13 July 2024 (UTC)
• Support but wait: It was pretty clearly an assassination attempt; according to sources i read, multiple shoots being witnessed. let's wait for now and not rush things up till things get a bit cleared out. —— 🌸 Sakura emad 💖 (talk) 23:36, 13 July 2024 (UTC)
• Support and wait Everyone above has valid points on the necessity to wait for more information. GuardianH (talk) 23:37, 13 July 2024 (UTC)
• Support — WP:BLUE. Barring any issues with the title, the Butler attorney general has confirmed gunfire and everything hints at it to be a politically-motivated assassinatiion attempt. Luunarr (talk) 23:38, 13 July 2024 (UTC)
• Support - all sources say assassination at this point, combined with pretty basic intuition. — Knightoftheswords 23:39, 13 July 2024 (UTC)
• Wait, and oppose anything speedy No major media outlet (the proposal sources are dubious for political matters at best, some outright trash) is saying so, because they cannot confirm it, because police intelligence (while this is major and they will be working quickly) will not have yet told them so. The reason why no solid RS is running with "looks pretty obvious" is to not interfere, and Wikipedia absolutely does not lead the way on describing such incidents, especially if it would be applying a criminal motive that has not been reported by police yet. Kingsif (talk) 23:42, 13 July 2024 (UTC)
• Support and wait for more information. Hume42 (talk) 23:41, 13 July 2024 (UTC)
• Support we literally see it happen in the video, there's no debate it was an attempt to assassinate him LittleMAHER1 (talk) 23:41, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

There's NORUSH. You are still making assumptions. Nfitz (talk) 23:42, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

the infobox on this article lists "assassination attempt" under "Attack Type" LittleMAHER1 (talk) 23:45, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

• Oppose - we don't know who the target was. We've got years to change it. There's other issues with the title ... 2024? Have there been others? Was it a rally or a campaign event? Nfitz (talk) 23:42, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

  I'd call a "rally" a campaign event. Potato potahto. And who else would the target have possibly been? Pickle Mon (talk) 23:46, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

  Who the target is, isn't really the point at this stage. No shortage of disturbed individuals at a rally for an adjudicated rapist, prosecuted racist, and convicted criminal. Though that Trump appears to have been hit certainly suggest he was the target. But how were the other 3 victims not appearing to be anywhere near the podium. Don't make assumptions. And what's the rush? The current title is not inaccurate. Nfitz (talk) 02:17, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

  Nfitz, eh you got sense about "2024? Have there been others? " —— 🌸 Sakura emad 💖 (talk) 23:46, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

• Support but wait until more reliable sources call it that or change “shooting” to “political violence” as it is also being called that.[11] Wafflefrites (talk) 23:46, 13 July 2024 (UTC)
• Support "Shooting of Donald Trump", pending further announcements of motive. The article title can be improved even before a motive is released, and the fact that Trump was shot appears to be the single most notable thing here. We don't need to circumlocute to "2024 shooting at a Donald Trump rally" pending future announcements when we can make an incremental change to benefit the page. Status quo is not good enough, and also is not the sort of thing that we should default to in a WP:NOCON close, since the original page title was at 2024 attempted assassination of Donald Trump. If we do get motive, then I would support Attempted assassination of Donald Trump, since we don't need the year and it's better grammar-wise. — Red-tailed hawk _(nest) 23:47, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

  Axiosreporting that he wasn't shot, so that title would be even more misleading. Kingsif (talk) 23:50, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

  Well, New York Magazine reports that he was struck by a bullet. And, apparently, so does The Associated Press (via South Florida Sun-Sentinel). Can you link to the Axios report that affirmatively denies that Trump was hit with a bullet? — Red-tailed hawk _(nest) 23:55, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

  Via The Guardian Kingsif (talk) 23:58, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

• Support but wait. We should make sure we have the fine details worked out before. There has been reports by reputable news sources about this topic, but there's definitely still some ambiguity that needs settling. 𝙰𝙶𝚛𝚎𝚊𝚝𝚄𝚜𝚎𝚛𝚗𝚊𝚖𝚎𝙲𝚑𝚘𝚒𝚌𝚎 _(ramble) 23:47, 13 July 2024 (UTC)
• Support - It seems fairly clear that this was an assassination attempt, with some RS exploring the idea. We likely won't officially know until down the line, however, this should be moved back to its original title. A "shooting" understates the importance/severity of an assassination attempt, especially during an election cycle. 30Four (talk) 23:54, 13 July 2024 (UTC)
• Support - obviously what happened. Acting like it's not is useless pedantry TocMan (talk) 23:56, 13 July 2024 (UTC)
• Support: Pretty obvious. TheBritinator (talk) 23:57, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

• Note AP is now reporting that the Secret Service is investigating this as an attempted assassination (source). Unless there's a good reason not to, I'm going to unilaterally implement this move in about 10 minutes (since that seems to have rough consensus and be supported by RSes). Please let me know below if there is a good reason not to. —Ganesha811 (talk) 23:54, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

• Further comment - Unilaterally is the wrong word to have used, but consensus is becoming pretty clear here in this RM. I don't see the point in Wikipedia's article title being vague and imprecise. If (and there's about a 0.1% chance at this point) this turns out to have been something *other* than an attempted assassination of Donald Trump, the article can always be moved back. —Ganesha811 (talk) 00:05, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

  I don't want to get this dragged into a process discussion, so I won't be making any move myself. However, I do support the proposed move. —Ganesha811 (talk) 00:10, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

• Support - It's clear that this was an assassination attempt, quite frankly it's embarrassing that this is even a discussion. Darwin's Bulldog (talk) 03:12, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

Don't do anything unilaterally is my advice. Esolo5002 (talk) 23:56, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

I support that move IDKUggaBanga (talk) 23:56, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

I mean... I see no reason not to implement it if it's exactly what it is. LilianaUwU ^{(talk / contributions)} 23:57, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

Just as a note, the current title was unilaterally moved away from "2024 assassination attempt on Donald Trump". Just pointing that out. The Weather Event Writer (Talk Page) 23:57, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

Yeah, and? The move from it was a rushed move to a worse title. LilianaUwU ^{(talk / contributions)} 00:14, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

"Investigating as an assassination attempt" is a far cry from "deciding it was an assassination attempt." Dumuzid (talk) 23:58, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

web link here [12] SimplyLouis27 (talk) 23:58, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

Investigating =/= confirming. Let's slow it down here. Kingsif (talk) 00:00, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

Yeah there's a good reason, it's called WP:V, WP:NPOV, and WP:BLP. Traumnovelle (talk) 00:01, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

No, you don't Ganesha811. Out of process moves often end up at ANI. Fences&Windows 23:59, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

good reason not to - you don't have consensus. There is no deadline. Isaidnoway (talk) 00:09, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

• Wait, because we don't know the motives of the perpetrator. We can't find out directly from the perpetrator because they're dead, but I imagine the Secret Service will find out what their motives were one way or the other. As I'm typing this, someone noted that the Secret Service is investigating this as an assassination attempt, so thanks in advance for that note. Ultimately, we'll have to see what they conclude. Unknown0124 (talk) 00:00, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
• Support It was clearly an assassination attempt. BrendonJH (talk) 00:00, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
• Support -Ad Orientem (talk) 00:01, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
• Support It was clearly an assassination attempt.--Excel23 (talk) 00:02, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

  Anyone that says wait will reach the same conclusion which is support Excel23 (talk) 00:29, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

• Oppose article shouldn't even exist yet but we shouldn't have an NPOV title until things have actually been confirmed. Traumnovelle (talk) 00:03, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

Are you serious? A former president is wounded in a shooting and we shouldn't have an article yet? -Ad Orientem (talk) 00:04, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

Absolutely not. Wikipedia is a shitty, shitty source for breaking news. 00:05, 14 July 2024 (UTC) Dumuzid (talk) 00:05, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

We're an encyclopaedia not breaking news. Traumnovelle (talk) 00:06, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

Well, too late for that. Article exists and no way can we go through AfD for this. BlunanNation (talk) 00:09, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

Doesn't mean we should exacerbate the problem with renaming the article based largely on original research/editors opinions on the event. Traumnovelle (talk) 00:17, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

As much as I agree that we're often way too fast on creating articles on events, this is one case where the article is warranted. Assassination attempts don't happen everyday, especially not in the case of candidates for the President of the most powerful nation in the world. LilianaUwU ^{(talk / contributions)} 01:24, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

I mean, I wouldn't say delete it but I see where they're coming from. It's a current event article about something so current we don't really know what's happen(ed/ing). If the very basis of the event's notability cannot be definitely said (i.e. is the event "someone tried to shoot Trump" or "someone tried to wreak havoc at Trump rally" or unlikely but possibly "Trump fan discharged gun in crowd at rally, oops") then it'd be hard to get it through AfC, for example. Kingsif (talk) 00:12, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

If you believe the article should not exist, you are free to nominate it for deletion. But I would advise against that at this point. — Red-tailed hawk _(nest) 00:07, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

"The article won't be deleted" and "the article should not exist" are different statements. Dumuzid (talk) 00:11, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

Well, not really. The whole point of deletion is to decide whether or not the article should exist. "The article won't be deleted" and "I don't think the article should exist" are different statements, rather. C F A 💬 00:53, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

Any deletion nominations as a note I will vote as speedy keep BlunanNation (talk) 00:13, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

I'm glad you're admitting you're voting based on your opinions rather than policy as WP:SKCRIT wouldn't apply here. Traumnovelle (talk) 00:28, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

WP:SKCRIT does apply, section 2, in this case. BlunanNation (talk) 01:17, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

No it doesn't. Calling legitimate attempts to improve Wikipedia is uncivil, just to let you know. Traumnovelle (talk) 02:09, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

It would never pass because no admin wants to deal with the flak from the 'Wikipedia should be breaking news' crowd. Traumnovelle (talk) 00:26, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

• G10 Delete Would someone remind folks that this is an encyclopedia? O3000, Ret. (talk) 00:04, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

  This is obviously not a WP:G10. In what way is this page designed to disparage, threaten, intimidate, or harass their subject or some other entity, and serve no other purpose? — Red-tailed hawk _(nest) 00:06, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

  WP:AFD would be more suitable to state your case. SimplyLouis27 (talk) 00:09, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

  Not a chance. This is the closest any president has gotten to being assassinated since Reagan. — That Coptic Guy^{ping me!} (talk) (contribs) 01:45, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

• No, this is obviously just a prank.. Of course its a fucking assassination attempt, what else would it be 🤦--FMSky (talk) 00:05, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
• Support The incident is now being investigated as an assassination attempt, according to the Associated Press. NorthropChicken (talk) 00:06, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

• Wait It is way too early to be discussing this, the current title of the article is fine. Until an official statement about what just happened comes out from a major official source confirming what possible motive was involved here. (Major official source being something like: President's office, District Attoerey, US Secret Service, FBI, CIA) BlunanNation (talk) 00:08, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
• Support but wait Obviously an assassination attempt, but I think we should wait for some more clarification before we can make a decision to change the title. Indiana6724 (talk) 00:06, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
• Support, it is being investigated as an assassination attempt. NAADAAN (talk) 00:07, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
• Support: You're delusional if you think this was anything other than an assassination attempt. Scu ba (talk) 00:08, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
• Support. The attempted assassination of President Reagan is described as such, even though it did not result in his death but did result in the death of another; this is no different. TE(æ)A,ea. (talk) 00:08, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
• Support Any logical mind assumes that firing bullets at someone is an attempt at their life, as a political figure it is entirely fair to assume a shooting at them at a political event is an assassination attempt.★Trekker (talk) 00:11, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
• Support. This was clearly an attempt to take his life and this will likely lead to him being a martyr which could have election impacts. AlienChex (talk) 00:12, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
• Wait.' - We don't know what the shooter's motives were yet. It seems likely that it was an assassination attempt but it has not yet been confirmed. Shooting is neutral until authorities determine it was an assassination attempt. We should, however, add that this is being investigated as a potential assassination attempt in the lede. Titanium Dragon (talk) 00:13, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
• Support Perpetrator is dead so we might never know the motive. We know who was shot though, and people usually shoot to kill. MonstoBusta2000 (talk) 00:15, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
• Support. It was clearly an attempt to wound and or seriously injure him. This is going to have major implications for the 2024 election. It is being investigated as an assassination attempt and the White House is making a statement related to the event. Potomokbelogobarsa (talk) 00:15, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
• Support renaming brings more clarity, not less. The attempt was clearly to kill Trump, regardless of the specific motive. Bill Williams 00:21, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
• Oppose for now as WP:V is not met, in spite of what all of these support comments think. There is a great likelihood this was an assassination attempt, but for all we know some yahoo started firing a gun into the air and some shrapnel nicked Trump. We need to wait for the results of the ongoing investigation and mind WP:BREAKING. – Muboshgu (talk) 00:22, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

As a quick note: Muboshgu was the administrator who unilaterally moved this article to 2024 shooting at a Donald Trump rally, following a page protection for move warring. Just wanting that noted as this user (as well as myself) are involved in this discussion. The Weather Event Writer (Talk Page) 03:39, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

• Support, no waiting Well, unless something funny comes out down the road, e.g. a false flag, then firing a gun at a politician is ipso facto an attempted assassination. Zaathras (talk) 00:21, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
• Support for reasons of common sense as stated above. Regardless, title should be changed in line with WP:NCWWW as the current one is very unwieldly. "2024 Donald Trump rally shooting" would be more appropriate. CompassNNE (talk) 00:23, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
• Oppose it is WP:TOOSOON to determine if it was an attempted assassination or not. We should absolutely not attempt to gun on this and frankly, the article was created too early as it is.}} Downerr2937 (talk) 00:22, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
• Oppose for now. Although I do not deny that Trump was purposefully targeted, we are not even sure quite yet what the downed shooter's motive was. Let's wait for the investigation to turn up any further information. FreeMediaKid$ 00:25, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
• Support It's obvious to anyone with eyes to see. Killuminator (talk) 00:27, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
• Support [13] — hako9 (talk) 00:28, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

• Support but wait. I say it's highly likely it was an assassination attempt, but it's also possible that it was a random shooting with no political or religious motives, which doesn't constitute an assassination per its definition: murder (an important person) in a surprise attack for political or religious reasons. It might be better to wait until a motive for the suspect has been found. SilentExplorer (talk) 00:28, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

  • The Shinzo Abe attack was the result of a personal grudge and that is still referred to as an assassination attempt. LegalSmeagolian (talk) 00:30, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

    In his testimonies and letters, Yamagami claimed that he was driven by a grudge against the Unification Church for ruining his family. Even though he originally planned to target Hak Ja Han, then president of the church, he was unable to approach her, so he switched to Shinzo Abe, whom he believed was "one of the most influential sympathisers" of the church. SilentExplorer (talk) 00:35, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

• Support AP news reports the shooting is being investigated as an assassination attempt. Discussion should be closed. https://apnews.com/article/trump-vp-vance-rubio-7c7ba6b99b5f38d2d840ed95b2fdc3e5 LJF2019 ^talk 00:29, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
• Support due to Associated Press calling it such as well as obviously that being the case. LegalSmeagolian (talk) 00:28, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

  AP saying they have been told it is being investigated as such =/= AP saying it is such. We have to wait for the latter, whatever editors think is obvious. Kingsif (talk) 00:32, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

  The article says: "The attack, by a shooter who law enforcement officials say was then killed by the Secret Service, was the first attempt to assassinate a president or presidential candidate since Ronald Reagan was shot in 1981." They are on-board with assassination attempt. -- GreenC 00:52, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

  If that's an update to the previously linked AP article, it's not showing. If it's a new article, can you link it? Kingsif (talk) 01:03, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

• Support This was a clear cut assassination attempt. As someone else stated above, this was clearly an attempt to take his life and people usually shoot to kill their target. Anthonyd33331 (talk) 00:29, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
• Oppose it's WP:TOOSOON to determine if it was an assassination attempt or not.Worstbull (talk) 00:32, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
• Speedy support @ everyone going ermmmm we don't know the motive of the shooter, actually 🤓 There is no reason for an audience member to fire a gun at a politician unless it is to assassinate them. Enough chicanery. Kodiak Blackjack (talk) • (contribs) 00:33, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

  I advise you to strike/remove your insults. Traumnovelle (talk) 00:35, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

  I advise you use your eyes and see that Trump was shot. What other motive would the shooter have? Scu ba (talk) 00:36, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

  I need to know where someone is being personally attacked. I cannot see anyone being specifically insulted, Kodiak is just having it out at a general argument here. BarntToust (talk) 02:21, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

  Accusing editors of chicanery isn't an attack? Traumnovelle (talk) 03:17, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

  May I introduce you to WP:V and WP:OR. Kingsif (talk) 00:35, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

  The government is treating it as an assassination attempt, and ABC has reported it as an assassination attempt. 00:38, 14 July 2024 (UTC) Scu ba (talk) 00:38, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

  No, they are investigating it and calling it an apparent assassination attempt, note their caution. Traumnovelle (talk) 00:40, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

  yeah, exactly, Apparent: clearly visible or understood; obvious. Scu ba (talk) 00:42, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

  Is your English this poor? The use of apparent implies a lack of decisiveness. ' : manifest to the senses or mind as real or true on the basis of evidence that may or may not be factually valid ' From your own source. Traumnovelle (talk) 00:43, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

• Support. His right ear was bleeding so it's obvious that this was an attempted assassination on the former President. 🛧Midori No Sora♪🛪 ( ☁＝☁＝✈) 00:33, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
• SNOW CLOSE This is textbook (kneejerk) WP:Original research. They haven't even really started the formal investigation yet, smh. Wait for 24 hours minimum and try again. NewsAndEventsGuy (talk) 00:36, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

  How is WP:SNOW relevant here? Most arguments support the move but there are also a significant number of oppose arguments. Chessrat ^{(talk, contributions)} 01:16, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

  @NewsAndEventsGuy, there is support and opposition here, there is no "it WILL be done" from this thread. Your argument is irrelevant. BarntToust (talk) 02:17, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

  wait, maybe I commented this in the wrong place, you said nothing about snow it seems. Ignore that. BarntToust (talk) 02:18, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

• Oppose. Sources have yet to identify it as an assassination attempt. "Shooting" is the predominant, even accounting for geographic and political bias, e.g. NYT: "Trump ‘Safe’ After Shooting at Rally", Fox News: "Former President Clinton condemns shooting at Trump rally", The Guardian: "Trump rally shooting being investigated". "Support but wait" is a meaningless distinction here, as we don't have crystal balls and don't know that will definitely be the language this turns out on. Sure, I'd put money on it, but this is an encyclopedia, we wait for reliable reporting. Dylnuge ^{(Talk • Edits)} 00:37, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

  So uh... what do you call someone shooting a politician? Because I call that an attempted assassination. Scu ba (talk) 00:39, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

  I call it WP:Original research. Traumnovelle (talk) 00:41, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

  I'm not a reliable source, so it doesn't really matter what I'd call it. This is an encyclopedia, not a newspaper. FWIW, we have seen a recent case where certitude something would be labeled an assassination attempt on a US politician was wrong, with Attack on Paul Pelosi. Dylnuge ^{(Talk • Edits)} 00:48, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

  While we wait for reliable sources to concur here, I support the move to "2024 Donald Trump rally shooting" others have suggested. Dylnuge ^{(Talk • Edits)} 01:42, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

• Support for above stated reasons.Spilia4 (talk) 00:37, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
• Support The shooting was planned and Trump was clearly targeted. This was an assassination attempt. Bowwow828 (talk) 00:40, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

• Oppose. The existing title is factual and accurate. Whether it was an assassination attempt is speculation, which Wikipedia should not do. The cited news reports couch things in terms like suspected, alleged, or possible. Unless and until what happened is investigated and confirmed by a formal investigation by competent authorities, and even then, the existing title is fine. - Cameron Dewe (talk) 00:40, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

are you seriously arguing someone went onto a roof overlooking a trump rally with a rifle and it was some sort of accidental misfire and that he wasn't trying to assassinate him? Scu ba (talk) 00:41, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

Should we also change the title of the “Assassination of John F. Kennedy” article to “1963 shooting at Dealey Plaza”? Catauro (talk) 00:49, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

The Warren Commission took 10 months to investigate Kennedy's assassination, before concluding it was one. - Cameron Dewe (talk) 01:36, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

The argument is that Wikipedia contains information from reliable secondary sources, and they do not say definitively either way. Kingsif (talk) 00:50, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

At present we don't know, for certain, what was going on, who the person on the roof was or what their motives for being there was. Second guessing in advance of a formal investigation is WP:SPECULATION. Cameron Dewe (talk) 00:51, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

ah right it could've been anything! people clamber onto roofs with a rifle overlooking a presidential candidates rally all the time! Maybe he was just there for a skeet event and got lost! Scu ba (talk) 00:54, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

I'm with Scu ba on this one. The Oxford definition of assassination attempt is "an attempt to murder someone famous or important." Whether it was politically motivated or not doesn't really matter. C F A 💬 00:58, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

But Wikipedia's standard for saying it is murder is that there is a conviction for murder, or some other similar court ruling. That is going to take some time to happen as the shooter is deceased. - Cameron Dewe (talk) 03:00, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

• Wait for further information and non-breaking sources, as stated above. Lordseriouspig 00:42, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
• Support, but wait until further sources describe it as such, which I expect will happen over time as more info comes out. PersusjCP (talk) 00:44, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
• Strong Support for above stated reasons. The title as it stands is totally disingenuous misinformation.Tallard (talk) 00:47, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
• Support Confirmed assassination attempt by multiple law enforcement agencies including the Secret Service. -- GreenC 00:48, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
• Support Very clearly an attempted assassination on Trump, and it is also being referred to as such by law enforcement officials. IncompA 00:51, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
• Support Hishighness420 (talk) 00:52, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
• Support, and immediately rename Donald Trump confirmed having been shot in the ear, cf. https://x.com/spectatorindex/status/1812287100441833962 --Global Donald (talk) 00:54, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
• Support This was obviously an assassination attempt, it's crazy the extent people are going to deny it just because the subject is controversial. Deathying (talk) 00:54, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
• Oppose for now - Oppose until investigation is complete. --Jax 0677 (talk) 00:54, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
• Speedy Wait (you know what I mean) —Ashley Y 00:56, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
• Support The Associated Press is reporting it as such [[14]]. Let'srun (talk) 00:59, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

  The AP reports that their sources ("law enforcement officials") have said that the shooting is being investigated as an assassination attempt; they are not calling it one. voorts (talk/contributions) 01:18, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

• Support Media is reporting it as such: https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/live-updates/donald-trump-rally-shooting-assassination-attempt/?id=111916828. TheInevitables (talk) 01:05, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
• Strong Support and I don't see the point in waiting either. The AP clearly states its being investigated as an assassination attempt. If circumstances change, it can be moved again. TrueCRaysball | ^#RaysUp 01:06, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

• Comment: Can we PLEASE have the title match the "in the news" section which reflects the proposed name change? LegalSmeagolian (talk) 01:05, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

• Wait for more reliable source reporting on what precisely has occurred. Though, I fully suspect it will be reported as an assassination attempt as more details emerge. Otherwise, the current title is a fine placeholder until then. R. G. Checkers ^talk 01:07, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
• Support but wait for more details and confirmation Wiki O'Ryan (talk) 01:09, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
• Support In line with Attempted assassination of Ronald ReaganHeinzMaster (talk) 01:12, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
• Oppose: I agree that this is obviously an assassination attempt. However, the article title policy requires that we follow what reliable sources say. The sources cited in this discussion are: (1) unreliable (such as WP:NYPOST), (2) only calling it an assassination in the headline (for example, [15]), or (3) calling it an "apparent" or "possible" or "suspected" assassination attempt (such as [16]), not confirming that it is one. voorts (talk/contributions) 01:13, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

  Support 2024 Donald Trump rally shooting. voorts (talk/contributions) 01:21, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

• Strong Support* There is no need to "wait for more reliable sources to confirm what happened." It is very evident in the video that as the popping sounds rang out, Trump holds his hand against his ear and swiftly ducks beneath his podium. Literally every reliable source that has reported on this has reported that Trump was shot in the earlobe, obviously by someone in the crowd who had an assault weapon, one accidental wrist-flinch away from having shot the president. This was literally an attempted assassination. The only argument in favor of waiting is for the amount of edits taking place being potentially disrupted, but other than that, there is no need to wait more than 2-3 days for a name move if you know for sure it's going to happen. TrevortniDesserpedx (talk) 01:14, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
• Support: Currently being investigated as an attempted assassination, reported as such on the front page of NYT ("The Secret Service killed a gunman after Donald Trump was rushed off stage in what is being investigated as an assassination attempt.") DigitalIceAge (talk) 01:14, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

Support. Clear attempt at his life Munknjet1234 (talk) 01:14, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

• Support: The main page's In the News says assassination attempt now! LucasR muteacc (talk) 01:17, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
• Support per reliable sources, [17][18][19][20] Personisinsterest (talk) 01:17, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
• I would support moving it to 2024 Donald Trump rally shooting. More concise title, no information lost. gangplank galleon (talk) 01:17, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
• Support. Confirmed reports of assassination attempt Fab1442006 (talk) 01:19, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
• Support. In what universe is this not an assassination attempt? Have you seen the video? Whatever guideline one is relying on to object, WP:IGNORE, as minimizing such an obvious title is clearly a silly idea. Alexis Coutinho (talk) 01:19, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
• Support, but if we wait, it should be clear in a couple days maximum and then it should be definitely changed to include "assassination attempt" in the title.Iljhgtn (talk) 01:21, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
• Support. Several sources have stated that it was likely an assassination attempt. Benpiano800 (talk) 01:22, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
• Strong Support - The fact that the attempted "plot" to kill Brett Kavanaugh is titled as an assassination, but a high-profile attempted assassination of Trump is not, is absolutely ridiculous. Almost every media network is reporting it as an assassination attempt, and it is being investigated as one. DocZach (talk) 01:23, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
• Support. It has been confirmed by multiple reliable sources now. Matthieu Houriet (talk) 01:23, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
• Support but wait per WP:RECENT - Booyahhayoob (talk) 01:25, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
• Support. It's obvious at this point. Devann (talk) 01:32, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
• Support. They shot directly at Trump and struck him. Pretty much all media sources are calling it an assassination attempt. To say that it wasn't an attempt on his life is frankly insanity. Luminism (talk) 01:30, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
• Strong support. It is borderline absurd that this is being debated. justdweezil (talk) 01:32, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
• Support More descriptive, not to mention factually correct, title. Kiwichris (talk) 01:35, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
• Strong support and speedy move' This is not even debatable at this point of the evening. Just move the damn article already. Safiel (talk) 01:44, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
• Support this was obviously an attempted assassination and is a more appropriate title. GramCanMineAway (talk) 01:42, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
• Strong Support, and I suspect it will be called "Attempted assassination of Donald Trump" later. — That Coptic Guy^{ping me!} (talk) (contribs) 01:42, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
• Oppose, the name "Assassination attempt of Donald Trump" reads as if Trump attempted to assassinate someone. The current name seems fine, if not renaming to "2024 Donald Trump Assassination Attempt" Vilo2023 (talk) 01:43, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

  Not sure why we would need a date in the title. LegalSmeagolian (talk) 01:49, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

  Exactly, I mean you wouldn't expect another one in the future right? Matthieu Houriet (talk) 01:58, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

• Support Reliable sources are already starting to refer to it as such. JMM12345 (talk) 01:45, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

Support as soon as we have reliable sources that cite that the shooter's motives was assassination or most likely assassination. 00101984hjw (talk) 01:59, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

Are you joking? Alexis Coutinho (talk) 02:15, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

Support. FoxNews and CNN have reported for a few hours that the Secret Service is investigating this as an assassination attempt. If Trump’s head was turned 45 degrees it’d be an assassination not an attempt. Face facts and change it immediately. Zindulee (talk) 02:05, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

Support Better than the current title and has enough reasonable citations Alpacaaviator (talk) 02:14, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

BBC and CBS, among others, now reporting that Trump shooting is now officially being investigated as an assassination attempt, so the title change can now go ahead? Editorforwiki15 (talk) 02:21, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

Support As others have said, this was clearly an attempt at Trump's life, treating it as anything different is disingenuous. TheFellaVB (talk) 02:30, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

Support this will help people searching for the event discover the Wikipedia version of it, as they, as well as news sources, will likely assume it to be an assassination attempt and group it as such. Rcarver3 (talk) 02:30, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

Support if the shooting is now being investigated as an assassination attempt. Wait if that's still preemptive, though I imaging that'll be the result eventually. jan Janko (talk) 02:43, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

Strong opposition to immediate renaming; with no prejudice towards subsequent revisit of proposal Hold off. We should not use a title that assigns a motive until there is verified information that sufficiently evidences said motive. Even if that motive is the one that is easy to assume: we are in the business of facts not assumptions. The current title is the most verifiably accurate option at the moment. SecretName101 (talk) 02:53, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

Support and dittoing others. Not only do we have multiple articles at this point but leaving the title as "2024 shooting at a Donald Trump rally" implies political bias. Burned Toast (talk) 02:59, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

Support for consistency. See Attempted assassination of Ronald Reagan among others. Garnet Moss (talk) 03:02, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

Support of course.  53  (talk) 03:04, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

No Wait the result QalasQalas (talk) 03:16, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

Please clarify. Bremps... 03:40, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

• Support but WAIT till confirmed as per perseusj Sharrdx (talk) 03:18, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

• Support Lets use some WP:COMMON and move this to what people are actually going to call this instead of the current clunky name. IceBergYYC (talk) 03:30, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

Edit/Comment We're clearly at the point now where it is being called an assassination attempt by major international news agencies.[21][22]IceBergYYC (talk) 04:05, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

Wait for additional reporting about the investigation by credible sources, and update as such information is verified as credible. Ajk1962f (talk) 03:32, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

Not sure what we are waiting for anymore. Support the renaming as we have a WP:RS (right here) describing the shooting as an attempt on Trump's life (and also common sense). Bremps... 03:40, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

Wait Astropulse (talk) 03:41, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

Support Referring to it as just a "shooting at a Trump rally" both implies that Trump wasn't the target and that it isn't as notable as it clearly is. Vader13289 (talk) 03:43, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

Mild Support per above Babysharkboss2 was here!! ^{Dr. Wu is NOT a Doctor!} 03:45, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

How would Trump not be the target. You shoot at Trump but he isn’t the target? Change the title to attempted assassination stop trying to be partisan JackW2023 (talk) 03:52, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

Support again FBI's confirmed it. Let's make it formal. Pickle Mon (talk) 04:00, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

Support. The FBI, the lead law enforcement agency in the investigation, have now called it an assassination attempt. Percy Gryce (talk) 04:03, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

Comment If you are voting "wait" (which I heavily disagree with, but that's neither here nor there) please specify what standard of evidence you are waiting for. Otherwise, just vote oppose. Bremps... 04:06, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

Support partially. Attempted assassination of Donald Trump seems like a better title without the year, unless I guess it were to happen again, but that would be tackled in that hypothetical future. Raskuly (talk) 04:17, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

References

• Comment As of 1:27 UTC, AP is still saying "investigated as assassination attempt". Can we have a moratorium on !votes until there's a substantial update in reporting? Kingsif (talk) 01:46, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

• Support Based on what news sources are saying and how it is being reported, this was a very clear attempted assassination. RandomUserGuy1738 (talk) 01:47, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
• Support When was the last time a former President was shoot that wasn't an assassination attempt?--Trade (talk) 01:49, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
• Oppose: I sure think it was, but I'm with President Biden: let's have some facts, not opinions. We are not in a rush here. No one's giving out barnstars for the first edits on an "assassination" article. Ravenswing 01:51, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

  but I'm with President Biden: let's have some facts, not opinions 🤦‍♂️ Alexis Coutinho (talk) 02:19, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

  We have a reliable source describing this as an assassination. I don't know what else we could wait for. Bremps... 03:50, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

• Support The other assassination attempts that are covered on this website use BBC as the source. BBC has called it an assassination attempt, why have we not changed the title yet?-- Flynnwasframed (talk) 01:55, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
• Support attempted assassination. At this stage it is reasonable to rename. Maybe this was different when the discussion started? gidonb (talk) 01:53, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
• Support - Call a spade a spade. LawNerd123 (talk) 01:57, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
• Support move, and the current title is actually woefully inadequate. If a user with no knowledge of the event saw the title as it is now—“2024 shooting at a Donald Trump rally”—they could (and likely would) easily assume that this was a shooting unconnected to Donald Trump himself, as if it happened in the parking lot of the event or something. Other users have pointed out that sources are calling this an assassination attempt, and the FBI and US Secret Service are investigating it as an assassination attempt. I think we can call a spade a spade. —Delta1989 (talk) (contributions) 02:00, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

  Adding to recommend: following the style that other Wikipedia articles used for assassination attempts, a better formulation of the title would be Attempted assassination of Donald Trump. --Delta1989 (talk) (contributions) 02:07, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

• Support - One thing is "being investigated as assassination" means they believe it is assassination and that the case are investigated as such. It does NOT mean we should wait until investigation is complete. SYSS Mouse (talk) 02:02, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
• Support but wait. In Russian-language Wikipedia the article which I created already has this name. Here we can wait and then rename. With regards, Oleg Y. (talk) 02:03, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
• Support This was obviously an assassination attempt, it's crazy the extent people are going to deny it just because the subject is controversial.
• Oppose: not yet a confirmed assassination attempt. Prcc27 (talk) 02:06, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

  Au contraire, mon ami. Bremps... 03:51, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

• Support I support that it be posted as it was previously posted before the article was redirected to the current one. Lmpesantezt (talk) 02:09, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

  Support The Secret Service and FBI confirmed in news reports the investigation as a possible assassination attempt. FrickFrack 02:13, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

  If they used the word possible, that surely would be a case against changing it at this time. Nfitz (talk) 02:18, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

• Support I understand that it is not technically confirmed, but all major media outlets are saying it, and sometimes, we just have to use common sense. NathanBru (talk)
• Support: certainly better than the current title, that omits the intended target and instead includes a much less relevant setting. StAnselm (talk) 02:12, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
• Support In addition to the common sense that someone taking a shot at the head of a prominent politican is an assassination attempt, every news organization I have seen is describing it as such. --CaptainTeebs (talk) 02:19, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

  Support nobody shoots at someone's head intentionally and doesn't mean to kill them. WP:COMMONSENSE BarntToust (talk) 02:23, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

• Support, but we should move to Attempted assassination of Donald Trump. The year is not necessary as this is the only notable and known attempt on his life. There is also precedent on how such titles are phrased:
  • Attempted assassination of Alexandre Millerand
  • Attempted assassination of Ali Khamenei
  • Attempted assassination of Antonio Cubillo
  • Attempted assassination of Arsenio Martínez Campos
  • Attempted assassination of Arthur Calwell
  • Attempted assassination of Augusto Pinochet
  • Attempted assassination of Bai Yingneng
  • Attempted assassination of Bernardo Leighton
  • Attempted assassination of Bob Marley
  • Attempted assassination of Chandrika Kumaratunga
  • Attempted assassination of Cristina Fernández de Kirchner
  • Attempted assassination of Dick Cheney
  • Attempted assassination of Fumio Kishida
  • Attempted assassination of Gerald Ford
  • Attempted assassination of Gerald Ford in Sacramento
  • Attempted assassination of Gerald Ford in San Francisco
  • Attempted assassination of Hafez al-Assad in June 1980
  • Attempted assassination of Harry S. Truman
  • Attempted assassination of Imran Khan
  • Attempted assassination of Juan Carlos I
  • Attempted assassination of Julio Ribeiro
  • Attempted assassination of Lee Jae-myung
  • Attempted assassination of Leonid Brezhnev
  • Attempted assassination of Lilburn Boggs
  • Attempted assassination of Mohamed Nasheed
  • Attempted assassination of Mustafa Al-Kadhimi
  • Attempted assassination of Nikola Štedul
  • Attempted assassination of Pavel Milyukov
  • Attempted assassination of Pedro II of Brazil
  • Attempted assassination of Pope John Paul II
  • Attempted assassination of Prudente de Morais
  • Attempted assassination of Robert Fico
  • Attempted assassination of Ronald Reagan
  • Attempted assassination of Rómulo Betancourt
  • Attempted assassination of Sheikh Hasina
  • Attempted assassination of Theodore Roosevelt
  • Attempted assassination of Vassos Lyssarides
  • Attempted assassination of the Mayor of Shiraoi

Per WP:PRIMARYTOPIC and WP:CONSISTENT, the appropriate title for this article is Attempted assassination of Donald Trump. The other page 2016 Donald Trump Las Vegas rally incident can be handled by a hatnote. At the very least, the title should be 2024 attempted assassination of Donald Trump, and not the currently suggested title. --- C&C (Coffeeandcrumbs) 02:19, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

Beat me to this suggestion. Supporting C&C's proposal. Staraction (talk | contribs) 02:22, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

Support Attempted assassination of Donald Trump: Disambiguator is not needed. Obviously the primary topic. C F A 💬 02:58, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

Support C&C proposal, including year in title is inconsistent and unnecessary. Garnet Moss (talk) 04:08, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

• Support: current title gives the impression that it was someone (anyone/audience member) who was shot at. Poiuytre (talk) 02:22, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
• Support some sort of title that uses attempted assassination per reliable sources. Blaylockjam10 (talk) 02:25, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
• Support: This was a clear attempt to assassinate Trump and the title must reflect that. BlueShirtz (talk) 02:27, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
• Support: What's notable here is that Trump was shot, not that his shooter died, and Attempted assassination is a better title. Win8x (talk) 02:27, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
• Support: No RS is needed for this, it is plainly obvious. Gamebuster (Talk)║(Contributions) 02:30, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
• Support: This seems pretty obvious to me. If it walks like a duck... Professor Penguino (talk) 02:33, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
• Support: Per Coffeeandcrumbs' reasoning. It is time. --Radio-Somewhere (talk) 03:59, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
• Oppose: What I worry is that this would not be the last. He also got one in 2016 which means there are people who would like to try again. The target page itself is already an disambiguation page, with a link directed at this article, which I feel correct. Also, this article's title should be changed to "2024 Connoquenessing Township shooting" instead to make it more precise -- I believe the place is not too populus and not pested by shooting incidents? -- Patrickov (talk) 02:35, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

  This was an obvious attempt to assassinate Trump and the title of the article about the attempted assassination of Donald Trump should reflect that. BlueShirtz (talk) 02:38, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

  @BlueShirtz:With all due respect I am not saying it's not, but I mean there had been one already in 2016 and I predict there're likely more. Trump is so controversal that there are apparently people who have both the intention and ability to render him dead. Patrickov (talk) 02:43, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

  @Patrickov Your prediction is just speculation right now. The other article in 2016 is much less notable and Trump was not injured, this page should be renamed to state that it was an Assassination attempt. BlueShirtz (talk) 02:58, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

  @BlueShirtz:I overlooked that fact that the suggestion has added 2024 at the front. Removed my vote. See below. Patrickov (talk) 03:04, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

  I haven't seen any news articles referencing Connoquenessing Township at all. I think we should go by WP:COMMONNAME here. Additionally Wikipedia is not a crystal ball and we can keep the singular title before another assassination attempt occurs. Staraction (talk | contribs) 02:40, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

  Sorry I read the proposed title wrongly. Adding 2024 at the beginning is totally OK. -- Patrickov (talk) 02:46, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

• Support: Video and first reports are obvious.Forich (talk) 02:44, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

• Support per WP: BLUE as another person cited. This was obviously an assassination attempt, we need to use our heads. Luna <3 (She/Her) (talk) 02:44, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
• Support: the time for waiting has passed.--Jack Upland (talk) 02:47, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

• Support Its clearly a assassination attempt, Many others made good points why. Zyxrq (talk) 02:48, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

• Support The AP has reported that it as assaination attempt. The current title makes it seems as if Trump was not the target. The change in title should also not include the year as it makes it seems that there has been more than one attempt and is not consistent with other US president assaination attempts. Grahaml35 (talk) 02:52, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

References

• Wait 1) Someone died at this event and it wasn't former President Trump. Focusing on Trump exclusively unduly erases or draws attention away from that person. We don't even know his name yet. 2) We don't know for sure that it was an assassination attempt, only that it is being investigated as one. My feeling is that we should call this something like "2024 Butler, Pennsylvania rally shooting." Darkfrog24 (talk) 02:59, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

  I think it's imperative that Trump is mentioned in the title. While the person who died wasn't Trump, they were (presumably) there because of the Trump rally. Staraction (talk | contribs) 03:02, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

  See eg. Attempted assassination of Harry S. Truman where other people were killed but the title is named after the notable person. Benica11 (talk) 03:07, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

• give it a few more hours to see if something unexpected happens then probably.©Geni (talk) 03:00, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
• Support The FBI will speak on the assassination attempt tonight at 11:45PM EST --Ralphw (talk) 03:23, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

• Strong Support Common sense to me would seem to dictate that if you set up a rifle from a sniping position and shoot at the former President of the United States, you are attempting to kill said former President. This would fit the definition of attempted assassination in every English dictionary known to man. Are we really supposed to believe it plausible that, when a rifle bullet hits the former President, this was a random shooting that just so happened to occur at a former President's rally, or that the gunman was aiming for some random bystanders? I am not aware of any Wikipedia policy that says we debase our innate common sense. CounselForMuffinMan (talk) 03:21, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
• Support. Proposed title accurate. Dmoore5556 (talk) 03:28, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

• Wait until further notices. Josethewikier (talk) 03:28, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
• Wait As much as I think this article title is manifestly confounding, we need further reliable reports that the shooting was indeed a confirmed assassination attempt before changing the title. Optakeover^(U)(T)(C) 03:30, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

  What do you think it was? An attempted ear piercing? How daft must you be to make comments like this? Οἶδα (talk) 03:41, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

  Let's refrain from WP:PERSONALATTACKS and focus on the merits of the argument. Staraction (talk | contribs) 03:46, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

• Support. Many mass media are already handling it as an assassination attempt, in which Donald Trump was wounded by a bullet in his right ear, a few centimeters more and it is clear that the attacker would have killed him.Rafaelosornio (talk) 03:45, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

  On this point alone, that Trump himself said that he was shot in his ear, which is corroborated by photojournalism on the scene, and that it was an event for his campaign all but demonstrates it was an attempt on his life. FrickFrack 03:51, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

  Federal authorities officially described it as an assassination attempt. FrickFrack 03:55, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

• Comment FBI agent, Kevin P. Rojek, has just confirmed that it was an assassination attempt against Donald Trump. --Rafaelosornio (talk) 03:58, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

• Support This is being treated as an attempted assassination according to press conference statement by an FBI official a few minutes ago. Thriley (talk) 03:59, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
• Comment The front page of The NY Times website is calling this an assassination attempt. Time to move this. No reason to wait now. Thriley (talk) 04:10, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
• Support rename based on FBI officials describing it as such. John Vandenberg ^(chat) 04:12, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
• Comment It's kinda bizarre how agitated so many editors over a slight delay in renaming this until confirmed by an RS. JDiala (talk) 04:12, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

  It has been confirmed, both by the FBI, and by RS now. It was slightly more dubious immediately after it happened. Not anymore. C F A 💬 04:15, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

• Support Confirmed now JDiala (talk) 04:12, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

• Oppose until I see some damn goood sources. The confirmation bias is strong with these ones Elinruby (talk) 05:50, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
• Comment »Attempt« implies intention. With a history of likewise events in the 20th century representing a diverse spectrum of intentions a wording like »near assassination« or »almost assassination«, does not have the same punch to it as »attempted assessination« but would not need to imply until the motive has been established. Frankverstärker (talk) 10:17, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

  I mean, what else could it possibly have been an attempt to do - long-distance ear piercing? Debian upgrade gone wrong ("instead of typing sudo apt update I accidentally got my rifle, drove forty miles, climbed on top of a building, aimed my rifle at a politician and shot it at him, oops how do I get the old apt-get repos back")? I have done a lot of silly and dumb shenanigans with my friends for fun, but none of them ever caused us to accidentally plan and carry out the attempted murder of a major political figure with a 24/7 security detail. jp×g🗯️ 11:48, 14 July 2024 (UTC)