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Teahouse thread notification bot is back

Hello. I received approval for the bot's task. In short: due to some technical difficulties I was unable to use Muninnbot's account. So I had to use my own KiranBOT account. I have sent out the notifications of the recent archival, here is an example diff. Kindly let me know if something should be changed, like the edit summary, or the main message, or some other thing. courtesy ping @Rotideypoc41352: —usernamekiran (talk) 17:48, 20 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It looks good to me! We'll see how it goes. Thank you:

Usernamekiran, for all your hard work
Sdkb, who started the original Bot inoperable thread that led to resumption of these notifs
and everyone else who helped at that thread.

Also, I tried to update the Munninbot userpage. Rotideypoc41352 (talk · contribs) 18:48, 20 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I forgot to mention: similar to Muninnbot, KiranBOT will not send notification in case the thread/section title is updated after creation. —usernamekiran (talk) 19:24, 20 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I have a rudimentary logic to resolve this issue. But given the upcoming Diwali festival, I will be busy in office as well as personal life. I will work on the issue as soon as I get free time, which might be after 10 November. In case anyone wants to stay updated, I recommend watchlisting User:KiranBOT/Teabot, where I will post the documentation once the issue is taken care of. —usernamekiran (talk) 02:22, 22 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Regarding Wikipedia Page of SBBS University

Sant Baba Bhag Singh University (''Page'')

This page on Sant Baba Bhag Singh University seems to lack a clear justification for its notability. The university, though occupying a sizable campus (while the page mentions 116 acres, the actual built area is 11.41 acres, is quite small and doesn't appear to have any significant achievements or contributions in academia, industry collaboration, or research, as noted by the NAAC report. The tone of the article also raises concerns, as it uses reverential language ("Sant Baba Dlawar Singh Ji (Brahm Ji)"), which feels out of place for an encyclopedia entry and suggests it may have been authored by someone affiliated with the institution, perhaps even a student or university official.

Anjuli Bhargava’s article, referenced here, is particularly critical of universities like this one, questioning “how and at whose behest” they spring up, acquiring vast lands with “no limit to how much reflective glass and chrome” can be used while academic rigor is suspect. Given these critiques, and the page's heavy promotional language and lack of meaningful citations, a more neutral, fact-verified rewrite (or maybe deletion) would be essential. VeritasVanguard (talk) 04:53, 31 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@VeritasVanguard: The college does not meet WP:GNG or WP:NSCHOOL. Majority of school and college articles from India fail to meet our notability guidelines, as they were previously presumed notable. However, following updates to guidelines such as WP:NSCHOOL, they no longer meet notability standards. I recommend redirecting these non-notable school, college, and university articles to relevant targets, such as their affiliated institutions. If there is disagreement or a challenge, then an AfD can be initiated. However, if we start bringing all of these to AfD, the backlog could become overwhelming. GrabUp - Talk 05:26, 31 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@GrabUp The institution on question is a private university. Laws governing the private universities in India do not allow them to affiliate institutions, such power is only given to State universities. I don't think that redirection is suitable for this non-notable university. I suggest this article be deleted, as no reliable sources exists for this article to be re-written. VeritasVanguard (talk) 05:36, 31 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@VeritasVanguard: Yes, I couldn’t see that this university is affiliated with any notable institution. If no appropriate target is found, then first consider using WP:PROD, and if challenged, proceed with AfD. GrabUp - Talk 05:42, 31 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for Your reply, I have placed Wikipedia:PROD to its page, as no appropriate target was found. VeritasVanguard (talk) 06:29, 31 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@VeritasVanguard: Nice work! Consider placing a notification on the author’s talk page, as shown in the notification you added to the article. You can also use WP:TWINKLE in future nominations, which will automate this process. GrabUp - Talk 07:28, 31 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@GrabUp My Wikipedia:PROD Tag was removed by an editor giving no explanation whatsoever, just said 'Recognized'. What should be done VeritasVanguard (talk) 17:52, 31 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@VeritasVanguard: I asked them in the article’s talk page, lets see their reply, or you can start an AfD. GrabUp - Talk 17:54, 31 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

VeritasVanguard, the bar for removing a PROD is very low, and although you can always ask, they do not have to answer, and you are prohibited from adding te PROD a second time. I would skip asking (what would it gain you?) and just take it to Afd. Mathglot (talk) 20:34, 31 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Mathglot Even if the 'bar' is 'too low'. There has to be some kind of reason, why it was removed, article since then was not improved whatsoever. Is the bar too low that anyone can remove it without stating any reason or any commitment to improve, and get away with it? VeritasVanguard (talk) 03:26, 1 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@GrabUp @Mathglot I have added an AfD tag on the Page of this university. VeritasVanguard (talk) 03:44, 1 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@VeritasVanguard: Please consider notifying the author about your nomination; use the help provided at WP:AFDHOW. GrabUp - Talk 03:53, 1 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@GrabUp @Mathglot Going through the History Page of the Article, Seems the editor who removed my WP:PROD tag, contributed to this article back in 2016. Most of the article that remains today was created by the Same editor. VeritasVanguard (talk) 03:59, 1 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@VeritasVanguard: Yeah, They are the author, You can just see the author from "Page Information" option. GrabUp - Talk 04:00, 1 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

VeritasVanguard, you asked:

Is the bar too low that anyone can remove it without stating any reason or any commitment to improve, and get away with it?

The answer to your question, is 'Yes, they can remove it without any reason.' That is the nature of PROD. The next step, if you wish to proceed, is for you or someone to nominate the page for deletion. Mathglot (talk) 04:19, 3 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

About original research

In history, it's essential to avoid imposing our contemporary perceptions onto the past. Instead, we should understand historical events and figures within the context of their own time.

A lebanese identity didn't exist during the time of the saints of this category, and categorising them as Lebanese clearly violates wp:NOR. Calling someone like Saint Barbera Lebanese is like calling Paul the Apostle a Turkish saint just because he was born in what would become the Republic of Turkey almost two thousand years later.

The category for Turkish saints notes that it should be empty, most likely for the same reason I've mentioned above.

Therefore, I think the saints should be removed from the Lebanese category. (Right? Or am I missing something?) Since there don't seem to be reliable academic sources that call them Lebanese. Otherwise, it should be okey to categorise Saint Paul as a Turkish saint.

I'd like to hear what you think Whatsupkarren (talk) 08:10, 31 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The Republic of Turkey didn't exist until 1920 or soon after. Turks arrived there in the 11th century, and Anatolia became known in western Europe as "Turchia" in the 12th century. I agree that it would be wrong to describe St. Paul as "Turkish" or "from Turkey".

The case of Lebanon is different. It didn't become any kind of political entity until 1920. But the region was known as "לְבָנוֹן" before the birth of Christ, and the Old Testament refers to its famous cedar trees. So it seems to me reasonable to describe a Christian saint as "from Lebanon". Maproom (talk) 10:00, 31 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Maproom Lebanon being mentioned in the Bible doesn't mean there was a lebanese identity nor does it prove that these ancient saints wouldve been identified as Lebanese. A saint from 2nd century Tyre can't have been Lebanese, Tyre, Beirut, Tripoli, Bekaa, etc aren't part of historical Lebanon. 140 years ago no one from those areas would describe themselves as Lebanese. This is my main issue; the sources don't describe any of the saints as Lebanese, describing them as from Lebanon is better but still problematic since they're from what is today Lebanon and not historical Lebanon which is only mount Lebanon. Whatsupkarren (talk) 08:48, 1 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Whatsupkarren: histoical Lebanon was not "only mount Lebanon", see for instance this map. Jesus is described as "Nazarene", though Nazareth was never a political entity. Saint Petroc is described as a Cornish saint, without Cornwall being a political entity. I believe that "Lebanon" has designated a region of the world for thousands of years, and it is appropriate to describe a person from that region as "Lebanese"; its relatively recent status as a nation state is irrelevant. Maproom (talk) 10:00, 1 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Your map dates to the Ottoman period not to the period of the saints in question. Tyre and Beirut were part of a region called Phoenicia by outsiders, most of its inhabitants would be called Phoenicians or Syrians by outsiders (although the term Phoenician and Syrian are also problematic)

"Jesus is described as "Nazarene", we have reliable primary and secondary sources to support this claim.

Do you know of any ancient figure who described, for example, Pamphilus of Caesarea, as Lebanese? Likely no, therefore categorising him as such, I think, obviously violates Wikipedia:No original research. Whatsupkarren (talk) 11:12, 1 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Maproom Whatsupkarren (talk) 11:12, 1 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I cited that map to refute your claim "historical Lebanon ... is only mount Lebanon." I doubt anyone has ever described Pamphilus of Caesarea as Lebanese, as Caesarea was not in the region then and now known as Lebanon. If your "Saint Barbera" is Saint Barbara, there are claims that she was born in Heliopolis, which was then, as now, regarded as being in Lebanon. Maproom (talk) 14:07, 1 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Maproom Pamphilus of Caesarea was from Beirut. Saint Barbara's birth place is disputed. But again, is there a primary source that called her "Lebanese"? Highly unlikely. Here's my main issue, that there are reliable primary or secondary sources that call any of those saint Lebanese. Whatsupkarren (talk) 17:11, 1 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Whatsupkarren, if someone was born and grew up in a region that was then and now known as "Lebanon", I don't see it as original research to describe them as "Lebanese". Maproom (talk) 08:43, 3 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Maproom So you think every area in present day Lebanon has been Lebanese for almost 2000 years ? Someone from 3rd century Tyre can't be described as Lebanese, he might be described as Phoenician, Greek, or Syrian. Tyrians in the 2nd century weren't called Lebanese, Tyre wasn't part of a region called "Lebanon" are there primary or secondary sources that say Pamphilus of Caesarea was born in Lebanon? one might find sources saying he was from present day Lebanon, in the same way Paul the apostle was from present day Turkey. Whatsupkarren (talk) 10:44, 3 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

No, I don't think that. I thought you posted here looking for advice. I was clearly mistaken. Maproom (talk) 18:30, 3 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I need help!

I accidentally annoyed a user named @Manifestation, this was not intended to be on purpose since it was about one user's gaffe discussion and now I need ask for forgiveness from him. How do I apologize to him? Please, help. 50.91.26.176 (talk) 22:54, 31 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I mean, you didn't say anything that was the end of the world. You already apologized, you don't need to do anything more and it would probably just annoy them if you continue. Don't agonize over it, you did the right thing. win8x (talking | spying) 23:05, 31 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks, you can tell @Manifestation about this. I have learned my mistakes and vowed to never do it again. I would still take a short break from Wikipedia. 50.91.26.176 (talk) 23:07, 31 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Feel free to do so, but remember that you are always welcome to contribute here. You pinged him, I won't tell him since it's likely he saw our conversation. win8x (talking | spying) 02:14, 1 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I relate to this so hard, every time I make a mistake on here I have to resist the urge to apologize, I just annoy everyone. Avienby (talk) 05:25, 1 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Avienby: Well, the polar opposite would be psychopathy, so don't feel too bad about yourself. 😉

@50.91.26.176: Apologies accepted.

@everyone else: For the background, see this thread. - Manifestation (talk) 16:31, 1 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

We can now move on, I promise to never do this again, deal @Manifestation? This can be a life lesson for everyone: Even if you have online friends on either Fandom, Wikipedia, Reddit, etc. and there is that person who just randomily add stuff (like adding deceased template), don't expect them to know THAT person.

Also, thank you @Manifestation for accepting my apologies. 50.91.26.176 (talk) 22:42, 1 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

PD - CA Gov

File:SantaClaraCitySeal.png

Hi, I believe that this file is PD-CAGov since it's a seal of a city in California that was placed in fair use wrongly. How do I change this?

This work is in the public domain in the United States because it is a work of the State of California that was in any way "involved in the governmental process" and "prepared, owned, used or retained by any state or local agency" or officer. That work is available pursuant to court interpretation of the Sunshine Amendment of the Constitution of California, and/or the California Public Records Act (CPRA), which contained no relevant provision(s) for copyright.

It is not copyrighted because (lacking an exception in statute like those for works of the Department of Toxic Substances Control or works of certain colleges established by statute) "unrestricted disclosure is required".

See County of Santa Clara v. CFAC. In brief, the "CPRA contains no provisions either for copyrighting [this work] or for conditioning its release on an end user or licensing agreement by the requester. The record thus must be disclosed as provided in the CPRA, without any such conditions or limitations." Subject to general disclaimers.

Itscyp (talk) 02:28, 1 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Since no one's answered yet, I've notified Commons:Village pump/Copyright. Rotideypoc41352 (talk · contribs) 02:00, 2 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Most likely uncopyrighted, trademarked. - Jmabel | Talk 17:58, 3 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Itscyp: I've imported it to Commons and added categories for you, see c:File:SantaClaraCitySeal.png. For future reference you can just edit the file page. —Matrix(!) _{ping one}^{when replying} {u - t? - _uselessc} 17:59, 3 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Issues with text linking to wiki articles that contains ellipses in the title in IOS

When I attempt to send a text message with a hyperlink to a wiki article with an ellipses in the title, IOS splits the message at the ellipses, sends a link text to the partial url, and sends the rest of the url in a seperate text. For example, I was trying to send a text with a link to the “That's Not My... (book series)” article. The link was automatically split into these two texts-

1- en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/That%27s_Not_My

2- .._(book_series)

and so the hyperlink that is sent (in the first text) obviously just goes to the “article doesn’t exist” page. This happens both in the normal messages app and in WhatsApp . Turning off all the keyboard autocorrect settings does nothing and Googles not being any help either.

Does any one have any work arounds aside from telling the text message receivers to combine split urls?

NymphNymph13 (talk) 04:52, 1 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Use email? -- Hoary (talk) 05:11, 1 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hi NymphNymph13, welcome to the Teahouse. That's Not My... (book series) has three period characters in the title. You could try encoding each period as %2E: https://wiki.riteme.site/wiki/That%27s_Not_My%2E%2E%2E_(book_series). Or maybe you only have to encode the middle one: https://wiki.riteme.site/wiki/That%27s_Not_My.%2E._(book_series). PrimeHunter (talk) 06:46, 1 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Another option is to use a redirect to that article that doesn't include periods: That's Not My. jlwoodwa (talk) 21:33, 1 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Template:Infobox artist-Infobox artist

I have a question about these template. In most of articles about an film director/actor/actress, the template "Infobox person" was applied, instead of "Infobox artist". Why editors don't apply template "Infobox artist" in those articles? Is there any rule about applying those template to Biography articles, particularly in topic Actors and Filmmakers? Mintu Martin (talk) 12:53, 1 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

{{Infobox artist}} are for people who are actual artists, like people who make paintings and art. {{Infobox person}} is used for anyone who is a person that doesn't have a sub-infobox, you can find some sub-infoboxes at Wikipedia:WikiProject Biography/Templates/Infoboxes. Cowboygilbert - (talk) ♥ 05:58, 3 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Move from Sandbox to Review

I started working on a page in my sandbox as the tutorial advised, but now I'm not sure what to do with it... MichaelChaosTheory (talk) 18:29, 1 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

You can submit it by adding {{subst:submit}} to the top of the sandbox. However you should probably first review the general notability guideline as your sandbox doesn't indicate the person in question is notable. —Matrix(!) _{ping one}^{when replying} {u - t? - _uselessc} 18:52, 1 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

it is now Draft:Brian Nguyen, submitted, awaiting review. My opinion is that he is a lawyer doing lawyer stuff, hence not Wikipedia-notable, but you will get a Reviewer to evaluate. David notMD (talk) 02:19, 2 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Notability question

My recent proposal was a railroad Superintendent biography with a newsworthy death. If a superintendent is not notable, is a railroad president notable? That should depend also on the notability of the railroad itself; eg C&NW vs Albany & Buffalo nobody heard of. Railroad Engineer vs Chief Engineer.? General Supt. vs General Manager.? Politicians -- US senator vs State legislator? MarkWHowe (talk) 18:32, 1 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, MarkWHowe! Wikipedia:Notability doesn't refer to someone's rank or prominence: it refers to the amount that has been independently (of the subject and each other) published about that person in WP:Reliable sources. If there are at least three such sources of substantial length (or two really good ones, even, like lengthy journal articles or books published by reputable publishers who fact-check and edit rather than just reprinting whatever they receive), that should be sufficient basis for an acceptable Wikipedia article and the subject is 'notable' in Wikijargon. (It's a pity that this slightly misleading term was adopted early in Wikipedia's history, and now we're stuck with it.)

Please note, however, that all sources cited in an article to verify all the statements in it must have been published, so that others can in principle access them (using the bibliographical information the citatons are required to contain). I see from your Userpage that you have copious private documents about what I'm guessing is your intended subject. Such unpublished material cannot be used to demonstrate a subject's notability, or to corroborate individual facts in an article.

Creating a Wikipedia article is difficult for the inexperienced (and I speak as a former professional non-fiction editor), and often takes several rounds of draft submissions, declines for improvement, and resubmissions before succeeding. I hope this helps and doesn't discourage you. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 94.6.86.81 (talk) 19:53, 1 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

MarkWHowe, there is a very strong presumption that any elected member of a national, state, or provincial legislature is notable. But an editor who wants to write such a biography is still expected to base their article on referenced to reliable sources that devote significant coverage to the person. Please read WP:NPOLITICIAN and WP:COMMONOUTCOMES for details. As for railroad executives, there is no such consensus. The applicable standard is WP:NPERSON. Cullen328 (talk) 21:24, 1 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@94.6.86.81 You stated " I see from your Userpage that you have copious private documents about what I'm guessing is your intended subject. Such unpublished material cannot be used to demonstrate a subject's notability, or to corroborate individual facts in an article."

Published documents referred to here would be printed circulars or broadsides scanned and uploaded and presented as graphics. Letters cited are from or to state governors, presidents and high level officials of noteable railroads, and in many cases governors or other high level political figures were also high level railroad officials. These letters have been published by the Iowa Genweb project but is there consensus in WP that Genweb is not a reliable source? Also obits? The originals of the letters are archived at the C&NW Historical Society, another example of what WP appears to consider unreliable.

Regarding the verity of letters, I say that if they are shown to be authentic then they show what was said regardless of whether or not they espouse truth. History is rife with examples of this. To corroborate facts I would want published research, as you say, and I believe I have done that.

None of this addresses my biography of Watkins. There is no lack of published material to verify the facts if newspapers like the NYT can be trusted, plus the Stennett volumes. Unless WP consensus acknowleges the man and the event as notable I see no reason for resubmission. MarkWHowe (talk) 03:35, 2 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The three requirements for sources useful for establishing notability are reliability, independence from the topic (Watkins in this case) and significant coverage (of Watkins). Most of the assorted documents you describe seem like primary source material useful to historians or to journalists but of no value to Wikipedia editors. The issue with such archived documents is not that they are unreliable but rather that they are not independent of the topic, and independence is just as important as reliability. Also, they have not yet gone through a professional editorial process. Historians and journalists separate the wheat from the chaff, determine what is of significance and construct an original and coherent narrative under the supervision of a professional editor. The credibility of their work is greatly dependent on the academic reputation of the specific historian or the reputation of the publication. Wikipedia editors who are volunteers and largely anonymous are forbidden by policy from engaging in that type of original research. Instead, we are summarizers of a particular, narrow type of published sources. Significant coverage in the New York Times and similar publication is fine. As for obituaries, there are two kinds. Family submitted paid obituaries are of little value. Obituaries by professional journalists are much better sources. In conclusion, it is your responsibility to limit the sources you cite for the purpose of establishing his notability to reliable published sources entirely independent of Watkins that devote significant coverage to Watkins. That is the key to success, and the quality of the sources is vastly more important than the quantity. Cullen328 (talk) 18:22, 2 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

We have a strong preference for secondary sources, defined as A secondary source provides thought and reflection based on primary sources, generally at least one step removed from an event. It contains analysis, evaluation, interpretation, or synthesis of the facts, evidence, concepts, and ideas taken from primary sources. Cullen328 (talk) 18:35, 2 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

How do I remove a template from an article?

There's some annoying templates in an article, I don't know how to remove them, so they are just stuck there, how do I remove a template? Riod456 (talk) 19:50, 1 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

You might, as a newcomer, think them annoying, but they might be there for good reasons. Reply with a link to the article you mean, and tell us which templates, and we can evaluate them and advise you. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 94.6.86.81 (talk) 19:57, 1 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

No, just tell me how. Riod456 (talk) 19:59, 1 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Riod456 It depends on the kind of template, so you need to tell us the article so we can help you. Thanks, Cremastra (u — c) 20:37, 1 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Wait, I just found out. I can hit backspace and the template is removed. Riod456 (talk) 07:12, 2 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Riod456 Yes, the Visual Editor treats them kind of like text. You can also cut, copy, or paste them, both within an article and between articles. Good luck, Rjjⁱⁱⁱ (talk) 06:16, 3 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

When to override and add a short description when none is present?

Reading this Wikipedia:Short_description#SDNONE it is not clear to me which exceptions should be made and when? For instance, in the page of Culture of the United States, I think a short description with the same name might still be better than "none". What is the rule in that kind of case? Iljhgtn (talk) 20:44, 1 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Iljhgtn, hello and welcome to the Teahouse! In such cases it can be a good idea to check other articles for existing examples:

Culture of Argentina, Culture of South Africa, and Culture of India all have {{Short description|none}} 
- Culture of the United States has a more shouty {{Short description|none}} :
but Culture of Italy has Culture of Italy and the Italian people

Right now WP:SDNONE isn't a guideline or a policy, it's just a part of an information page. So it's up to editors to decide where it would be appropriate to include a longer short description.

I think that United States can be expected to be known to anglophone readers, so we don't need clarifications, like (borrowing from short description of United States): Culture of the United States, a country in North America . —⁠andrybak (talk) 09:21, 2 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hmm. Interesting. That is confusing at best unfortunately. So maybe I will simply tread carefully with editing short descriptions. I have gotten into "trouble" before for editing things like this too quickly where perhaps a change might not be necessary. Iljhgtn (talk) 14:06, 2 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Iljhgtn, when a shortdesc is intentionally set to none, it's typically been done with good reason. The idea of duplicating an article title within a short description is a strong signal that no shortdesc is necessary. They are not mandatory subtitles.

How do I gain concensus

So there was a small incident in Foreign relations of Pakistan. I reverted Mister Banker's edits on restoring sources in the list because I believe that the United Nations digital library is enough proof and because it adds too much bytes to the article, but ke kept on undoing my reverts because he wants me to "Cite a policy for my actions or gain concensus". How can I explain to him without edit warring? I'm afraid he won't accept me and I have to quit Wikipedia forever. Underdwarf58 (talk) 22:42, 1 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Open a discussion on the article's talk page: Talk:Foreign relations of Pakistan Meters (talk) 22:48, 1 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The additional references add many fewer bytes to the rendered article than all the unnecessary national flag images do. Folly Mox (talk) 04:30, 3 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Article Quality

I really love the game Factorio, and want its page on Wikipedia to be as good as possible! What can I do to improve it from the current state? CharmanderTheDev (talk) 02:13, 2 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

If there are reliable secondary sources, then you can add those.

If there is a section that you would like to add that is supported by reliable sources, then it can be added.

One question though are you in anyway connected to the game? The reason for my asking is you have the Dev in your name. If you are related in anyway then you need to disclose that connection on the talk page, should you make any edits. Also if you are paid to edit then please follow what wp:paid says.

User Page Talk Contributions Sheriff U3 02:30, 2 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

No worries here, I am not affiliated with Factorio, the dev is just because i like coding :) CharmanderTheDev (talk) 04:44, 2 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Ok great to hear! Just had to ask. :) User Page Talk Contributions Sheriff U3 05:38, 2 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for the advice, I will try to improve it more CharmanderTheDev (talk) 04:45, 2 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

correct flag of the First Republic of Venezuela?

i was in the First Republic of Venezuela article, and I saw that the flag was changed from the last time. I thought nothing of it so i click on the historical flags of Venezuela and I go too the First Republic of Venezuela flag and it's different, also I went too the Second Republic of Venezuela article. which was changed from the original, and is different in the Flag of Venezuela historical section. please clarify Average USA patriot (talk) 05:10, 2 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Please ask, or make a request, at the foot of Talk:First Republic of Venezuela. -- Hoary (talk) 06:15, 2 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Correct guidelines for "Confederate" or simply "American" generals for American Civil War (1861-1865) articles

Can we propose a certain guideline for descriptors of generals in the American Civil War? I have been suggesting to describe a general who was subjectively more known for service with the Confederacy as a "Confederate" general (like Robert E. Lee and Stonewall Jackson for example) rather than "American" which is reserved for mostly Union-aligned generals like Sherman and McDowell. 9mm.trilla (talk) 05:24, 2 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Of course you can propose it. You say that you "have been suggesting" it, from which I infer that have already proposed it somewhere. Please don't propose this kind of thing in more than one place. (And this is not the place.) -- Hoary (talk) 06:11, 2 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@9mm.trilla: I don't think boldly changing all the lead sentences of article about Confederate generals is the right way to go about doing this; it's kind of a big change that should be discussed first per WP:CAUTIOUS. I've asked about the change at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Military history#Confederate officer biography lead sentences and you should really be seeking consensus there before changing any more articles. -- Marchjuly (talk) 10:29, 2 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oakland Athletics proposal

The Oakland Athletics are currently on a relocation phase. The team prefers to be called just the "Athletics" or the "A's" but for continuity and organization sake, shall we propose naming the page as "Sacramento Athletics"? Like with the New York Knicks ("officially" the New York Knickerbockers) and certain teams in European football leagues and teams in the French rugby union league Top 14 who go by 'unofficial but popular' names, the Oakland Athletics shouldn't be exempt from these situations, too. 9mm.trilla (talk) 05:30, 2 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

There is already a discussion taking place at Talk:Oakland_Athletics. You are free to join this discussion. -- Hoary (talk) 06:14, 2 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hi 9mm.trilla. This kind of thing is definitely better off discussed at Talk:Oakland Athletics than here at the Teahouse. There are, in fact, several discussion threads related to this already on the article's talk page, and you're free to participate in them if you want. You already know this though because you started one of them yourself, right? Just to add on to the answer you received in that discussion, Wikipedia is not here for you or other fans of the team to use as a some sort of way to get back at the owner of the A's. Wikipedia's role is to only reflect how reliable sources cover the team after it relocates or during the process of its relocation. -- Marchjuly (talk) 06:16, 2 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Статья

Если я являюсь новым пользователем, я должна писать статьи сразу? Какими источниками я могу пользоваться при написании статьи? Prosto Hanna (talk) 10:08, 2 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Prosto Hanna. This is English Wikipedia so it's easier for others to help you if you try to communicate in English. Google translate says you're asking about how to create articles. There's some information on this in Help:Your first article and Wikipedia:The answer to life, the universe, and everything, but it's geared to English Wikiepdia. If, by chance, you're asking how to create Russian Wikipedia articles, then you should ask about that on Russian Wikipedia. -- Marchjuly (talk) 10:34, 2 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Are redirect pages included in Wikipedia's article count?

This is a very dumb question, but yes, are they included? Usernames are not practical (talk) 12:56, 2 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Usernames are not practical They are not. Looking at Special:Statistics, there are 61 million pages (including talk pages and other stuff) a lot of which are redirects. win8x (talking | spying) 14:39, 2 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The count of actual content articles is currently 6 904 994. We are actually at 98.64% to 7 million articles! See Wikipedia:Seven-million pool. Ca ^{talk to me!} 15:45, 2 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

According to the technical documentation at :mw:Manual:$wgArticleCountMethod § Details, Redirect pages will never be counted as valid content pages (articles) (emphasis in original). Folly Mox (talk) 04:05, 3 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Can my accounts be retired please?

Hi. I am not logged in and therefore cannot place the {{retired}} tag on my previous user accounts Aarushthakkar153 and Aarushthakkar0909. Can somebody do that for me please? 2607:FEA8:FD04:8183:BC1F:FF73:8E47:AD (talk) 13:51, 2 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

You have not retired though, you are blocked. Theroadislong (talk) 13:53, 2 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Draft article — submit for review, or publish first?

Having been active on WP for a long time, I remember how simple it used to be to start stubs and/or contribute to the development of articles. Lately, I've mostly contributed bits to well-established articles. I've just recently started a new one and I see I have a choice between submitting it for review or simply publishing it. Please tell me about the advantage that each route may offer. Thanks.Joel Russ (talk) 17:05, 2 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

You are free to publish directly but run the risk of it being sent to WP:AFD, I suggest you re-write it in a dry neutral tone and submit it for review. Theroadislong (talk) 17:15, 2 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks, Theroadsolong. So you've read my draft, I take it, and think it would be good to dry it out some. Reviewing, not just on WP, is generally coloured by the subjective viewpoint & feelings of the reviewer(s). Since there's a "risk" there will be a review, do you believe the reviewers would tend to frown upon me publishing first?Joel Russ (talk) 19:23, 2 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

If you submit for review you will get feedback on how to improve the content, if you simply publish then you will be at the mercy of new page patrolers. Theroadislong (talk) 19:28, 2 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Courtesy link Draft:Richard Raymond (publisher). Theroadislong (talk) 19:30, 2 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I mean, the AFC backlog is less than two months now and less than 1000 pending submissions. I remember when it exceeded four months and 3000 pending submissions. But still, it can take anywhere from within a few hours, to several weeks/months for an article to be subsequently be reviewed, and eventually be indexed on search engines (or immediately if your autopatrolled. The WP:NPP backlog is over 11k unreviewed articles and only 1700 unreviewed redirects. In addition to your article being send to AfD, it could also be sent to draft space, be merged/redirected or even speedy deletion.

AFC is optional if you are autoconfirmed (10 edits and 4 days) unless you have a conflict of interest with the article your writing about or are being paid to edit that. I tend to no longer write articles via AFD if there's a good chance its notable enough and will likely survive an AfD. JuniperChill (talk) 21:14, 2 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Joel Russ By my count you have created ten articles but none since 2009. Standards on en:Wikipedia have risen a lot since then, particularly regarding wikinotability and the policy for biographies of living people. For those reasons, I think you would be best to use WP:AfC for your next couple of submissions, although as already advised, that certainly isn't mandatory. Mike Turnbull (talk) 15:32, 3 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

does Agata Bleizgyte exist

im her 2A0A:EF40:900:CB01:5C33:89D4:F717:3769 (talk) 18:45, 2 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

This pages is for help with using and editing Wikipedia. Do you have a relevant question? Shantavira|^{feed me} 19:06, 2 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hello, IP user. If you are asking whether English Wikipedia has an article called Agata Bleizgyte, the answer is No (or that link would appear in blue, not red.

Nor is there an item with that name in Wikidata, so there is probably not an article in any other language Wikipedia either (though I can't be sure there isn't without a more complicated search). ColinFine (talk) 22:41, 2 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Articles for deletion/Keramikou 28

I’m looking for insights on the AfD process regarding the Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Keramikou 28. I’d like to understand the notability standards it would need to meet to avoid deletion. The topic involves [insert brief description of Keramikou 28 here, e.g., a notable art space or cultural hub], but I’m unsure if there’s sufficient coverage by reliable sources to establish its significance by Wikipedia standards.

Could anyone advise on key factors that might contribute to a stronger case for retention, such as specific types of references or any unique Wikipedia guidelines that might apply? IlEssere (talk) 19:53, 2 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

In order to be notable it need to:

Give a least 2-3 strong reliable sources (more is always better) see wp:Notability for more info.
It looks like it needs a rewrite see wp:Neutral point of view for more info.

The best thing I can suggest is that just in case it gets deleted, copy the article to your sandbox. It will also let experiment with it.

User Page Talk Contributions Sheriff U3 20:50, 2 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

If you're going to copy a article to the sandbox, why wouldn't you ask to userify within the AfD itself? That would at least preserve the page history in compliance with Wikipedia's licenses. Rotideypoc41352 (talk · contribs) 21:56, 2 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

That would be the better option for sure, I did not know about it when I posted. thank you for mentioning it @Rotideypoc41352.

User Page Talk Contributions Sheriff U3 22:03, 2 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Or at the very least, copy the following to the edit summary of your sandbox (WP:COPYWITHIN) because multiple have edited the article:

Copied content from [[Keramikou 28]]; see that page's history for attribution

JuniperChill (talk) 22:41, 2 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Important link:

1. https://communitism.space/

Starting with Communitism's mission, if wecarefully examine the "About" section on their website, it becomes clear that this initiative originate as a formal organization with a primary goal of preserving culturally significant buildings in Athens. Keramikou 28 was not the first building the helped preserve.

2. https://gold-ailina-51.tiiny.site/

The Greek state recognizes the building as a listed monument due to its cultural, historical, or architectural significance. This recognition includes protection from any alterations or demolition, as well as ensuring its maintenance. The process of recognition typically involves an evaluation by relevant authorities and may include specific regulations regarding its use and management.

3.https://www.oneman.gr/onecity/urban/to-emvlimatiko-ktirio-tis-kerameikou-28-poleitai-kai-to-communitism-psaxnei-neo-spiti/

This link highlights how the building at 28 Kerameikou Street has become a symbol for art, the Athens Gay Pride, and the vibrant drag community in Athens. It reflects a space where diverse events—like performances, parties, and exhibitions and resilience of the local LGBTQ+ scene.

4. https://www.lifo.gr/guide/arts/news/i-kunsthalle-athena-apohaireta-tin-kerameikoy-28

This article in LIFO highlights the significance of the building at Kerameikou 28, emphasizing how Kunsthalle Athena transformed it into an essential cultural venue for Athens. It describes the building’s role as a creative hub that welcomed a diverse array of people—locals, immigrants, artists, and cultural area marked by social challenges and vibrant urban life.

5. https://www.artnet.com/magazineus/reviews/bradley/remap3-athens-art-fest-10-19-11.asp

Artnet, a major art magazine, talks about the building at Keramikou 28 having crucial impact because it exemplifies the event's ethos of transforming neglected urban spaces into vibrant cultural hubs. Situated in Athens' Kerameikos-Metaxourgeio neighborhood, an area known for its rough edges and high vacancy rates, this building symbolized how art can breathe life into a community.

6.https://www.theguardian.com/travel/2021/nov/28/a-locals-guide-to-athens-five-great-things-to-do

The Guardian mentioned the building under Communitsm, describing it as a labyrinthine mansion-cum-workshop that looks like it could fall down at any minute.— Preceding unsigned comment added by IlEssere (talk • contribs) 21:14, 2 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

A complication, and another.

Given that three of the !votes at the present AfD are "delete and salt", I fear copying the article content to a user sandbox may be a poor decision, perhaps resulting in a deleted sandbox and further problems.

IlEssere, you've made 21 edits to the AfD already, which is rather a large amount. At this point I'd gently suggest allowing the process to run its course. Folly Mox (talk) 03:57, 3 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

True, lets see how it goes. IlEssere (talk) 14:26, 3 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Daihatsu#Mascot

Can someone who is fluent in Japanese please help me with this section of the Daihatsu Wikipedia page? I found two external sources and used a translator and wanted to confirm my edits are ok and in line Avienby (talk) 22:27, 2 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

How to organize posts in descending order

I can’t seem to find a way to get posts to start with the most recent rather than the furthest back, like for instance at my User page. Would much appreciate the necessary steps from on high.

Actually, I’d have thought descending order would be the default… Augnablik (talk) 01:22, 3 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Augnablik: Wikipedia features appear to be built with ascending order in mind, but if you're looking to just read unread items, you might want to consider installing the Convenient Discussions script. —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 01:31, 3 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for replying but I don’t quite “get” what this script does.

(Do you really speak something like 17 languages, as I noticed at your alternate User page?) Augnablik (talk) 02:07, 3 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Any new comments on a page are going to be highlighted in green; there's more documentation about what the script does at the link posted.

Where do you see me stating I speak 17 languages? —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 02:42, 3 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

So I gather that I’m supposed to follow the green light … okay, will do.

As for languages:

I copied an “Other languages” section associated with the User jack built the house, which seemed to be an alternate user ID you use, that shows a long list of languages with little icons showing what appears to be the degree to which you speak them, planning to paste it here. But I found it wouldn’t paste, so all I could do was describe it.

Before I saw you’d replied to my original Help message, I was about to apologize to you if you do speak all those languages and it looked as if I were calling you out for fibbing. I mean, I know there are a few super polyglots in the world, but it’s pretty rare — and I’d simply been awestruck that we might have one among us Wiki editors.

From your question as to where I saw you’d said you spoke 17 languages, though, now I’m wondering what’s what. “The thot plickens ...” Augnablik (talk) 03:38, 3 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It's two completely different users: the one who built Convenient Discussions (whose Babel boxes at meta:User:Jack who built the house list two languages) and the one recommending it here at the Teahouse (User:Tenryuu lists six languages at varying levels of proficiency). They're not otherwise affiliated. Rotideypoc41352 (talk · contribs) 09:21, 3 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Am I really spamming or is this guy just unhappy?

The edit listed on this page was reverted twice by someone controlling the page and I don't understand why. Apparently replacing an old link on a page is spam. I'm pretty sure that I can't try to add the edit for a third time without it being considered an 'edit war' or something (not that there is any point since it'll probably get reverted again anyway).

What am I supposed to do in this situation? Do I just have to let this slide or can I force the person blocking my edit to give a better reason for why the edit is not an improvement? HappyWrap (talk) 01:33, 3 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@HappyWrap: Welcome to the Teahouse. What you should be doing is discussing this on the associated talk page at Talk:List of Johnson solids. —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 01:56, 3 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Ok thanks I'll try that. HappyWrap (talk) 01:58, 3 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

This user should be blocked.

A user named YuranHigger have vandalized the 2024 Botswana general election, he was telling people to hang themself and hurled a racial slur. He should be blocked right now because he is going to vandalize the articles.

Look at what he doing! User contributions for YuranHigger - Wikipedia 50.91.26.176 (talk) 04:03, 3 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I had to revert his edits because it was vandalism. 50.91.26.176 (talk) 04:04, 3 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I agree that it is a problem. User Page Talk Contributions Sheriff U3 04:10, 3 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Good news! Joyous! have blocked YuranHigger from vandalising again! 50.91.26.176 (talk) 04:30, 3 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The Teahouse isn't the place to report vandalizers. You should go to Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents next time. Cowboygilbert - (talk) ♥ 05:47, 3 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Got it. 50.91.26.176 (talk) 05:58, 3 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Wikipedia:Administrator intervention against vandalism is also an appropriate place to report blatant vandalism like this. (You only need to report at one place, not both.) jlwoodwa (talk) 19:27, 3 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Putting citations on items in a long list

RE: putting citations on items in a long list, where many of the items have the same citations. Should I

(a) put citations on every single item in the list, or

(b) group items together into sub-lists with the same citations, and then give the citations only at the end of each sub-list? In that case, I guess that I should separate items in the same sub-list by commas, but separate different sub-lists by semicolons? Dr.bobbs (talk) 04:14, 3 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

You can reuse citations, I would put a citation on each item as it would show that it has something to back it up. User Page Talk Contributions Sheriff U3 04:16, 3 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks! Dr.bobbs (talk) 15:45, 3 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Dr.bobbs I would do option (a). You can use "named references" to reuse the same citations. See Help:Footnotes#Footnotes: using a source more than once for the source editor or Help:Introduction to referencing with VisualEditor/4 for the visual editor. Hope that helps, Rjjⁱⁱⁱ (talk) 06:05, 3 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(edit conflict) Dr.bobbs, the Named reference functionality allows you to re-use a single reference multiple times within an article, without clogging the reference list with duplicates. Once you understand how it works, you will use it all the time. Cullen328 (talk) 06:09, 3 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

As a further refinement, if you are using almost the same reference - e.g. different pages in the same book - you can differentiate them without repeating everything, as explained at Help:References and page numbers. - Arjayay (talk) 11:48, 3 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks! Dr.bobbs (talk) 15:46, 3 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Creating new page

How to create a new wikipedia page Tordaddy (talk) 08:40, 3 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Creating a new Wikipedia article is the most difficult task to attempt on Wikipedia, and we usually recommend that newer users first gain experience, read Your First Article and use the new user tutorial. You do have some edits under your belt, so if you have independent reliable sources to summarize in a draft article, you may use the Article Wizard to create and submit a draft for review. It will be good for your first few attempts if you use that process first, so that others see it before it is formally part of the encyclopedia, instead of afterwards when it will receive more scrutiny. 331dot (talk) 08:44, 3 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Tordaddy You have already tried to create Draft:Medha Servo Drives and Draft:Megha Engineering and Infrastructure Limited (MEIL) but both attempts are lacking relaible sources, never mind ones that demonstrate these companies are wikinotable. When a new editor arrives and immediately tries to create such articles, experienced editors know that they are almost bound to fail, since the newbie is writing their draft backwards. Also, some may suspect a conflict of interest. Why did you choose these topics? Do you have any connection with these companies? Mike Turnbull (talk) 16:26, 3 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Change the page linked in another language

Hi all! I am not sure who to ask about this and on which wiki, as this involves the English and Russian wiki. So the English wiki page for Costume Jewelry has no linked translated page on the Russian wiki. But there is an article that is on the Russian Wiki for ru:Бижутерия that seems to be, while not a direct translation, a solid match for the Costume Jewelry article, with even the same image in use. But the English translation linked to that article is Bijou (jewellery) which I would say fits the Russian article much worse than the Costume Jewelry page and the content seems to be referring to something else.

My proposed structure would be to have Costume Jewelry correspond to Бижутерия. I am not sure if there is an article in the Russian wiki that would match Bijou (jewellery). How, or maybe who, would I approach to get this looked at? Is this an issue for the Talk pages of all three articles?

I would be very grateful for any guidance!

EDIT: For that matter, I think the French article fr:Bijou linked to the ru:Бижутерия is not a good match either. The French article is very similar to the English one and I think they both describe something else from the Russian article. Is this an issue I should bring up on the talk page of the Russian article? Or do translations work both ways? Many thanks!

Cryo Cavalry (talk) 08:46, 3 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, @Cryo Cavalry, adn welcome to the Teahouse. Interlanguage links are mostly done now via Wikidata entries, and can only be 1-1.

What I would suggest is to go to the relevant Wikidata entries d:Q3575260 ("bijou") and d:Q1536680 ("costume jewelry"), and simply edit their links as appropriate. I note that the "bijou" item links to articles in a number of languages whose title is "bijouteri(a)", and I guess that many of them may have the same problem.

If you feel you should discuss the issue first, then I suggest d:Wikidata:Project chat as the best place to do so. ColinFine (talk) 14:07, 3 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

That's a good overview – I just want to note that d:Wikidata:Interwiki conflicts is a better (more specific) venue for discussing this kind of issue. jlwoodwa (talk) 19:24, 3 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hide bots from watchlist

Hi, could you tell me how can hide the bot edits from my watchlist? Thanks! OrionNimrod (talk) 11:02, 3 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hi OrionNimrod -assuming you are using the desktop version, on your watchlist page, above the live updates switch are three bars and "Filter changes (use menu or search for filter name)" click on that. The 19th entry in the dropdown list should be "Human (not bot)" tick the box next to that and click back on the watchlist page. Done. If you are using mobile - I have no idea. Best wishes - Arjayay (talk) 11:41, 3 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Arjayay! Thanks, that solved the issue! OrionNimrod (talk) 13:48, 3 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]