Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Archived nominations/December 2024

Hongxi Emperor

Nominator(s): Min968 (talk) 12:00, 1 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

This article is about the Hongxi Emperor, the fourth emperor of the Ming dynasty. I have tried to improve this article as well as the articles related to the Ming dynasty. Min968 (talk) 12:00, 1 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

This article is quite well-written, but I'm surprised by the relative paucity of sources for a topic like this. I did some source digging and found some stuff that may be helpful. Additionally, since this is your first time at FAC, I would recommend running things through WP:GAN first; it's not a strict requirement, but it's especially useful to get some eyes on an article before going to FAC.

Soulliere, Ellen. 2016. “The Writing and Rewriting of History: Imperial Women and the Succession in Ming China, 1368–1457.” Ming Studies 2016 (73): 2–29. doi:10.1080/0147037X.2016.1142177.

Talks about his wife and their marriage a fair bit which could be good context.

Fletcher, Joseph F. "China and Central Asia, 1368-1884." In The Chinese world order: Traditional China's foreign relations. Harvard University Press, 1968.

Pages 216-217 specifically talk a bit about his foreign policy. And in the notes it also mentions his rule in decreeing an end to Zheng He's expeditions, which is also talked about in the source you include in Further Reading.

Hucker, Charles O. "CHU Kao-chih". pgs 388–340, Dictionary of Ming Biography, Association for Asian Studies. 1976.
- A fairly broad, albeit a bit old, biography by Hucker. The Dictionary of Ming Biography in general mentions him a lot in various contexts (just be sure to search for "Chu Kao-chih"). Cited here is also Hucker's 1966 The censorial system of Ming China, which mentions the Hongxi Emperor on pages 112-113.

I won't support or oppose here; its well written, but in my mind fails to exhaustively utilize the available sources. This would almost certainly pass with flying colors at GAN at this stage, however. Just giving some options! Generalissima (talk) (it/she) 22:18, 1 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose from Airship

This article has potential, but poor prose quality is letting the side down currently. A few points to look at:

Firstly, there are basic grammar/syntax errors. In the first sentence there is an obvious mistake: "...was the fourth emperor of the Ming dynasty, reigned from 1424 to 1425." There are sentences with confusing pronouns, as at the start of the "Crown prince" subsection", and occasions where subject-verb relations get confused, like "none of the emperors actually wanted to go back. Despite this, they remained the dominant group in the Ming government..."
Then, you have duplication, of which there are many instances. A quick selection: the lead mentions his lasting influence twice; the "Hereditary prince" subsection mentions his brothers' interest in military pursuits twice; the "Domestic and foreign policy" section mentions the end of the long-distance voyages twice. "Reforms" has the tautology "significant preponderance".
You also have occasions where the prose doesn't quite ring well with the source, or other parts of the article. The lead says "He ensured that his eldest son received a top-notch education rooted in Confucian principles." The "top-notch" nature of the education is not mentioned in the body, nor its "rooting in Confucian principles". In "Reforms", the second paragraph begins "Confucian morality was emphasized during this time", but then goes on to discuss seemingly unrelated matters. A look at the source reveals that the article has indeed elided important information, producing a classic non sequitur. Although much of the article relies on Chan 1988, an objectionable amount of the actual detail of that chapter is omitted in favour of superficial descriptions.
Finally, the general air of the prose is rather clunky, and sometimes weirdly promotional. For example, "the noble sport of archery" is not something that should be said in wikivoice. "The emperor worked closely with the Grand Secretaries and ministers, encouraging them to openly discuss matters in meetings. Decisions were made through collective discussion, resulting in the cancellation of the Yongle Emperor's unpopular programs." sounds like it's from an advertising brochure.

I don't want to enter a WP:FIXLOOP, so I'll stop there. I'd suggest putting this through WP:GAN first, especially for a first-time nomination. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 22:55, 1 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Serial

Unfortunately I must also oppose, per 1C. The entire family section is unsourced. I agree that the prose, while WP:FA? no longer requires it to gbe refreshingly brilliant, etc., still needs to be a certain standard. Suggest Peer review or a WP:FAC mentor; the GA suggestion is also excellent. Paging @FAC coordinators: wrt pile-on opposes. SerialNumber54129 23:52, 1 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Coord note

I think the reviewers have covered all the potential next steps. Pls note the minimum 2-week break between now and any future FAC nom. Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 03:17, 2 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Closing note: This candidate has been archived, but there may be a delay in bot processing of the close. Please see WP:FAC/ar, and leave the {{featured article candidates}} template in place on the talk page until the bot goes through. Ian Rose (talk) 03:18, 2 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]