Wikipedia:WikiProject Christianity/Noticeboard

Welcome to the Christianity Noticeboard This page serves to coordinate the various discussions taking place throughout the Christianity-related project talkpages. Even though , there are numerous Christianity-related projects, with many different conversations going on at the same time. This Noticeboard hopes to achieve some kind of order in keeping track of the various goings-on. You are welcome to add to the discussion.

Recent changes of Christianity-related talkpages

List of abbreviations (help):

D: Edit made at Wikidata
r: Edit flagged by ORES
N: New page
m: Minor edit
b: Bot edit
(±123): Page byte size change

13 December 2024

diffhist Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Catholicism 10:13 +303 Marcocapelle talk contribs (→Requested move at Talk:Saints Cosmas and Damian#Requested move 9 December 2024: Medieval Catholic churches by decade) Tags: Mobile edit Mobile web edit Advanced mobile edit

Alerts for Christianity-related articles

Did you know

13 Dec 2024 – Frankfurt silver inscription (talk · edit · hist) was nominated for DYK by Renerpho (t · c); see discussion
09 Nov 2024 – Revelation of the Magi (talk · edit · hist) was nominated for DYK by SnowFire (t · c); see discussion

Articles for deletion

18 Dec 2024 – Der Herr wird dich mit seiner Güte segnen (talk · edit · hist) was AfDed by Polyamorph (t · c); see discussion (4 participants)
17 Dec 2024 – Sisters of Mary, Mother of the Church (talk · edit · hist) was AfDed by Traumnovelle (t · c); see discussion (2 participants)
16 Dec 2024 – Darel Chase (bishop) (talk · edit · hist) was AfDed by Dclemens1971 (t · c); see discussion (3 participants)
12 Dec 2024 – KCMR (talk · edit · hist) was AfDed by Mvcg66b3r (t · c); see discussion (3 participants)
05 Dec 2024 – Timōrātus (talk · edit · hist) was AfDed by Graywalls (t · c); see discussion (3 participants; relisted)
08 Dec 2024 – Peter Lock (talk · edit · hist) AfDed by Surtsicna (t · c) was closed as delete by Liz (t · c) on 15 Dec 2024; see discussion (5 participants)
05 Dec 2024 – Vision of God Records (talk · edit · hist) AfDed by Graywalls (t · c) was closed as delete by Liz (t · c) on 18 Dec 2024; see discussion (4 participants; relisted)
23 Nov 2024 – Symphony of Heaven (talk · edit · hist) AfDed by Graywalls (t · c) was closed as delete by Liz (t · c) on 14 Dec 2024; see discussion (3 participants; relisted)

Proposed deletions

15 Dec 2024 – Communicators for Women Religious (talk · edit · hist) was PRODed by LibStar (t · c): Unreferenced for 8 years. Fails WP:ORG.
16 Dec 2024 – Jacob David (talk · edit · hist) PRODed by Surayeproject3 (t · c) was deproded by LouisAragon (t · c) (author) on 17 Dec 2024
11 Dec 2024 – St. John's Episcopal Church (Roseville, California) (talk · edit · hist) PRODed by Reywas92 (t · c) was deleted

Categories for discussion

16 Dec 2024 – Category:Roman Catholic churches completed in the 1370s (talk · edit · hist) was CfDed by Marcocapelle (t · c); see discussion
16 Dec 2024 – Category:Roman Catholic churches completed in the 1360s (talk · edit · hist) was CfDed by Marcocapelle (t · c); see discussion
16 Dec 2024 – Category:Roman Catholic churches completed in the 1280s (talk · edit · hist) was CfDed by Marcocapelle (t · c); see discussion
15 Dec 2024 – Category:Canning family (political) (talk · edit · hist) was CfDed by Mike Selinker (t · c); see discussion
15 Dec 2024 – Category:Anti-LGBTQ and Pentecostal churches (talk · edit · hist) was CfDed by MikutoH (t · c); see discussion
13 Dec 2024 – Category:Roman Catholic churches completed in the 1220s (talk · edit · hist) was CfDed by Marcocapelle (t · c); see discussion
13 Dec 2024 – Category:Roman Catholic churches completed in the 1170s (talk · edit · hist) was CfDed by Marcocapelle (t · c); see discussion
13 Dec 2024 – Category:Roman Catholic churches completed in the 1140s (talk · edit · hist) was CfDed by Marcocapelle (t · c); see discussion
13 Dec 2024 – Category:Roman Catholic churches completed in the 1120s (talk · edit · hist) was CfDed by Marcocapelle (t · c); see discussion
13 Dec 2024 – Category:Roman Catholic churches completed in the 1110s (talk · edit · hist) was CfDed by Marcocapelle (t · c); see discussion

(75 more...)

Files for discussion

12 Dec 2024 – File:Lori and George Schappell.jpg (talk · edit · hist) (on Lori and George Schappell) was FfDed by Voorts (t · c); see discussion

Christianity

Der Herr wird dich mit seiner Güte segnen

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Fails WP:NSONG. Possibly could redirect to Helmut Schlegel. Polyamorph (talk) 09:37, 18 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Albums and songs, Music, and Christianity. Polyamorph (talk) 09:37, 18 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: please inform project Classical music. - This song is published in the main section of Gotteslob, the central Catholic hymnal for all German-speaking countries, actually twice in several dioceses. It also gets sung as I can tell you from church experience (which can't be said of all songs in the book). What else do you need to be notable? It has even become part of a major published work, you can listen on YouTube. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 09:49, 18 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep This demanding hymn is covered by notable sources, for example by the musicologist and theologian Meinrad Walter. Grimes2 (talk) 10:53, 18 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Poetry-related deletion discussions. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 11:50, 18 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep – This hymn is part of standard hymn books. This particular hymn has received coverage in several religious websites, here, here, here, and here (quick web search). Church hymns will (almost) never satisfy the the enumerated criteria at WP:NSONG, so that's setting the the wrong bar to clear. OTOH, I think it clears WP:GNG. -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 14:04, 18 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I saw those links, none of which appear to be particularly reliable sources, especially not the blog. Although I take your point that WP:NSONG may not be the correct bar for hymns. Polyamorph (talk) 14:50, 18 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I don't understand how those websites can be characterised as unreliable. "blog" in a URL doesn't automatically disqualify that website; its author is de:Anton Stingl jun.. -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 15:34, 18 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Sisters of Mary, Mother of the Church

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Not sure why this minor group of nuns has it's own article but I cannot find secondary sources covering them. My searches turn up more information on a Ugandan group with the same name. Traumnovelle (talk) 23:30, 17 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Christianity-related deletion discussions. Traumnovelle (talk) 23:30, 17 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Washington-related deletion discussions. Shellwood (talk) 00:09, 18 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Organizations-related deletion discussions. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 01:15, 18 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Darel Chase (bishop)

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A non-notable clergy person. Sources that mention Chase are limited to WP:PRIMARYSOURCES (his personal website, a blog from a bishop in his church, his church's official website x2 x3 x4, x5, his church's international communion website, and corporate documents on the KY secretary of state's site); and an apparent WP:SPS WordPress blog. Several sources do not even mention Chase at all ([1], [2], [3], [4], [5], [6], [7], [8]); these are contributing to WP:SYNTH to draw connections about the subject not present in the sources. I found nothing qualifying in a WP:BEFORE search. Finally, let me address WP:BISHOPS since I am guessing it will come up. While AfD participants have debated the applicability of BISHOPS (and I have generally accepted it as a quasi-guideline since WP:CLERGYOUTCOMES align with it, even though it's not a P&G), this bishop does not even qualify under BISHOPS. The church he leads is a micro-denomination that is not part of the Anglican Communion or recognized by any of its member churches. Moreover, Chase is the pastor of an individual congregation, and bishops in this category are per CLERGYOUTCOMES not typically found notable by virtue of their office. Dclemens1971 (talk) 03:32, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: People, Christianity, and Kentucky. Dclemens1971 (talk) 03:32, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: Oh man, that's an interesting character. I'm seeing a remarkably marginal case for notability here, but not enough for me to !vote one way or the other. Dclemens1971, do you mind pinging me at my talk page if I don't get back to this by next weekend? I would like to contribute to this discussion, but it looks like too deep a rabbit hole for this workweek. ~ Pbritti (talk) 04:06, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Pbritti I will try to remember! Dclemens1971 (talk) 04:14, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Definitely an interesting character, I'd say. He does definitely have a marginal case of notability, so I'll vote for it to be kept. And, isn't it a bit biased to call it a micro-denomination? It is a Christian denomination nonetheless, regardless of its size. It is also quite clear that he is not within the Anglican Communion. Is this a publishing house for authorized religions, or an encyclopedia? - TheLionHasSeen (talk) 15:09, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I think it's completely unbiased and reasonable to call it a "micro-denomination". It's own website parish directory lists just four churches. While another part of its website claims 43 churches (scroll down), there's no validation of this. Chase's own diocese appears to have just three churches. Two other dioceses (Diocese of St. Ignatius Loyola Diocese of the North-East appear to have just one church each, and a fourth (Diocese of Pelican Bay) has no website with information. And WP:BISHOPS and WP:CLERGYOUTCOMES, to the extent they are relied upon, specify "Anglican Communion" -- while I might prefer a different dividing line, I didn't make that up. Dclemens1971 (talk) 15:32, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per WP:MADEUP, WP:NOTFB, and WP:SIGCOV. You can't just call yourself a bishop. You have to be ordained in apostolic succession. WP:BISHOP is a guideline that only creates a presumption of existence that, like WP:NPOL, sources must exist somewhere, for bishops of major denominations. BISHOP doesn't necessarily assume notability; it just says how to set naming conventions. There is a different outcome guideline here: WP:CLERGY:
People listed as bishops in Pentecostal denominations may fail AFDs unless they have significant reliable third-party coverage. Clerics who hold the title bishop but only serve an individual parish or congregation are typically considered the same as local pastors or parish priests.
The subject was, after lawsuits, left with a single congregation and fails significant coverage; all but two of the sources are not independent of the subject: one is about how secular and canon courts returned church property and doesn't even mention him by name and the other is a brief corporate listing. That is far below significant coverage, almost a velleity of verification. Bearian (talk) 22:25, 17 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

KCMR

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Short article; no sources; notable only on local level. Mvcg66b3r (talk) 14:02, 12 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Radio, Christianity, and Iowa. Mvcg66b3r (talk) 14:02, 12 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
~~Redirect~~ to List of radio stations in Iowa, where this station is mentioned. Not seeing any evidence it passes WP:GNG or any other applicable guideline. Dclemens1971 (talk) 03:50, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
- The new sources seem fairly routine, but with them added (and in the interest of consensus), I have no strong objection to a keep. Dclemens1971 (talk) 16:06, 18 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Weak keep I've given this a shot. It's not a very interesting station for expansion because its format has never changed and the articles on it in the local newspaper run on the puffy side, but at least we have a start date and station history and references. Sammi Brie (she/her • t • c) 20:29, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Weak keep: If nothing else, the "no sources" issue appears to have been resolved with the newspaper sourcing (and being a short article is not necessarily a reason to delete in and of itself, at least when improvements are possible). The weakness is because this is still more of an "edge" case, as it were, under the current tighter inclusion standards (compared to when the article was created in 2008). WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 05:22, 17 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Timōrātus

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Sources are WP:QS and extremely bloggy and they don't adequately support WP:GNG. I suggest deleting it. Graywalls (talk) 06:18, 5 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Bands and musicians, Music, Christianity, and Kentucky. Graywalls (talk) 06:18, 5 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: the HM reference is good, and the Lloyd Harp IVM review would be pending on the outcome of the RFC regarding IVM. that's two sources, and we'd want three or four. I'm going to take a look before I make a decision.--3family6 (Talk to me | See what I have done) 10:18, 5 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
- The only other coverage I can find that would be RS is from The Metal Resource, and it's mostly reviews. I think for now notability is definitely questionable.--3family6 (Talk to me | See what I have done) 16:48, 5 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  Nobody is questioning the fact they exist. So the sources do reliably prove it exists. I'm satisfied with that. Graywalls (talk) 17:12, 5 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  Okay.--3family6 (Talk to me | See what I have done) 13:03, 6 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

~~:Keep Notable. This0k (talk) 22:57, 11 December 2024 (UTC)~~[reply]

Strikeout vote by sockpuppet whose original account was blocked in November 2023. Graywalls (talk) 03:06, 18 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Doczilla _{Ohhhhhh, no!} 08:05, 12 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 04:47, 19 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Christianity Proposed deletions (WP:PROD)

Sweden Yearly Meeting (via WP:PROD on 6 November 2024)

Categories for discussion

Christian religious leaders: further follow-up required, see Category talk:Religious leaders#Clergy categories

Miscellaneous

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