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Repeated WP:PA Violations by IP 47.69.66.57 (and prior IP addresses)

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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47.69.66.57 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

The IP (and previous IP addresses operated by the same individual) has made repeated personal attacks targetting me.

They have alleged that I am not... mentally sound: "fake news by incapacity or intent or what?" [1]

They claimed that a B-Class article I edit often, SpaceX Super Heavy, is my "favorite playground" [2][3]

Multiple claims of attempting to mislead others: "And you still either don't understand or try to mislead" [4]

"Once more a certain editor wants to spam each and every space article with superfluous and redundant starship pseudofacts" [5]

"Once more, Redacted II makes "original research" and exaggerates vague facts to factuals" [6]

"neclected and more or less to a single editor who had put in original reseach and exaggerations while blocking others" [7]

They accuse everyone they disagree with of WP:OR, despite the disputed content often being well sourced. And anyone who confronts them is a WP:PA violator: [6][7][8][9][10][11][12][13][14]

They have decided that I am a "know-it-all" editing only for the "statisfaction" to be the one "to have discovered a tiny new fact". [15]

They have declared their intention to "form a coalition" to combat me. [16]

IMO, it is clear that they are not here to improve Wikipedia, editing only to harrass more experienced editors.

I reported their behaviour before, but no action was taken.[17] Redacted II (talk) 14:21, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

A link to the archive of the previous report (with the responses): link. – 2804:F1...A2:6879 (::/32) (talk) 18:27, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

Hopping in here as I've also seen this person repeatedly hounding Redacted II in several discussions. It's clear this user is not interested in constructive editing. Ergzay (talk) 02:18, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

They have continued, now as IP 47.69.68.17.

They aren't here to improve the encyclopedia. They're here to troll. Redacted II (talk) 18:01, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

Now 47.69.168.221. Behaviour has continued. Redacted II (talk) 15:43, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

Looks like if we're going to stop this IP editor, then we need to block the 47.69.0.0/16 range. I had a look at the contribs page for that /16 range and surprisingly there's little to no activity from other editors on there in the past month, besides this nuisance harassing IP of course. — AP 499D25 (talk) 23:00, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

So far, I've found one edit not from the discussed user in the last year. Redacted II (talk) 23:05, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

To quote WP:PA:

"Abusive, defamatory, or derogatory phrases based on race, ... disability, ethnicity, nationality, etc. directed against another editor or a group of editors."

The first statement: "fake news by incapacity or intent or what?" satisfies this definition. Redacted II (talk) 18:22, 24 November 2024 (UTC)

This person clearly has a dynamic IP address, so if disruption continues (hopefully not), we are going to need a rangeblock. I've reminded this editor here, despite this constant behavior, I hope that this might help them improve. User3749 (talk) 15:59, 26 November 2024 (UTC)

Actually, that was before I found out that this has been going on since July this year. I might also want to point out this interesting case, where this editor randomly takes it to another user's talk page to discuss Redacted II, just because the said user changed the infobox and lede name here. This is obviously not helpful, but I still have hope that my reminder above will help this editor improve. User3749 (talk) 16:43, 26 November 2024 (UTC)

They have been warned quite often before. It didn't change anything.

The IP range is very inactive when this user is ignored. There have been three edits this year that I'm not 100% certain were made by the Wikihounder. Redacted II (talk) 19:15, 26 November 2024 (UTC)

What actually matters is the ratio of edits from the offending person to edits from other people, and not the simple existence of other editors or the 'size' of the IP range. In this case we have a very high proportion of edits coming from this offending person compared to others which make up a small single-digit percentage of the volume of edits. Admins block plenty of seemingly very large IP ranges all the time, such rangeblocks are based on that the bad edits from the nuisance editor significantly outweigh the benefits being provided by the small volume of good edits coming from other editors.

I stumbled upon this shocking comment from the IP editor by the way, quite uncivil that one. Also diff 2, diff 3, diff 4, diff 5. It seems the written message from a few days ago reminding the IP editor of WP:AGF by User3749 did not work unfortunately, as evidenced by the latest two diffs. — AP 499D25 (talk) 13:19, 28 November 2024 (UTC)

That comment wasn't the only one of that style. See this almost identical one (previously mentioned by User3749). Redacted II (talk) 13:37, 28 November 2024 (UTC)

@Redacted II Has this user edited since November 17? -Ad Orientem (talk) 00:04, 29 November 2024 (UTC)

Yes, check out Special:Contributions/47.69.0.0/16. Toughpigs (talk) 00:13, 29 November 2024 (UTC)

Thank you. -Ad Orientem (talk) 00:21, 29 November 2024 (UTC)

Never mind. I have found some that are quite recent. Reviewing the situation. Ad Orientem (talk) 00:20, 29 November 2024 (UTC)

 Blocked 47.69.0.0/16 x 2 weeks for persistent NPA violations. It appears that all edits within the last six months across the range are the same editor. Their commentary makes it clear that they were aware of this discussion and chose not to respond here but to continue their behavior. -Ad Orientem (talk) 00:43, 29 November 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

SheriffIsInTown POV pushing editing pattern

SheriffIsInTown (talk · contribs) has been consistently POV pushing against Imran Khan and the Pakistan Tehreek-e-Insaf (PTI), figures in Pakistan’s political crisis. I reported them on this noticeboard recently, and I hoped that the issue would be resolved after my report, but I am reporting them again as their WP:CPUSH behavior pattern has persisted, primarily against Imran Khan, warranting a topic ban.

POV pushing on Imran Khan BLP
On the Imran Khan BLP, Sheriff has added exclusively negative criticism about Khan, including citing an opinion piece instead of reliable inline citations and following a one-sided narrative. In this discussion, they argued that one sexual harassment allegation should have an independent section, followed by accusing both me and the user who added the section (WikiEnthusiast1001) of POV pushing in favor of PTI because we advocated for a merge into another section to fit the article's structure.

Following a somewhat resolution to the dispute, they added a large section about Khan's comments on rape and allegations of victim-blaming but was entirely one-sided, failing to mention other viewpoints or any context, essentially only covering the negatives which forced me and another user to step in and add context [1] [2]. Even worse, Sheriff already knows that Khan's comments on rape were contested as out of context, as they edited on a page talking about the allegations but did not add the other viewpoint.

Previously, they put false information on Imran Khan’s BLP article that was not supported by any of the 3 citations they gave and citation bombed to make it seem like a proper piece of information. I asked them twice on why they did this in the talk page, but they only responded when Saqib intervened in this discussion.

Even more concerning, they cited an opinion piece for 2 paragraphs of information on Imran Khan's page without even mentioning it was an opinion piece. They also used that one opinion piece as a citation for two paragraphs about contentious information on an already contentious protected BLP, without inline citations or even a mention of the opinion piece or its authors which was discussed here. Sheriff further made bad faith accusations towards me when I explained it was necessary to mention it is an opinion piece. They were extremely reluctant to revoke the opinion piece.

In response to the lengthy negative opinion piece Sheriff added, I balanced it with a short paragraph summarizing three positive opinion pieces [3]. However, even after this, instead of allowing for balance, Sheriff selectively extracted negative points from these generally positive pieces and showed further compulsion to add only negative content. [4] Sheriff has also added imbalanced criticism of Imran Khan's time in office, which other users including me have had to correct.

Khan is a controversial figure in Pakistani politics and his BLP is a high-priority and a GA nomination which is why these editing patterns are even more concerning. Sheriff argues that I have added 'promotional content' and they are balancing that, but as seen, most of these changes on the Imran Khan BLP occur without me even adding any content and are unprovoked.

Talk Page Behavior
Discussions with them often result in WP:IDHT by them. Past aggressive remarks: [5] and [6]. They have accused me of bad faith and portraying Imran Khan as suffering because I used the word 'Campaigning', exhibiting IDHT in the discussion. Additionally, talk page discussions give an insight into Sheriff's POV as there are instances where Sheriff's comments on talk pages have veered into personal opinions. They stated that There was a legal issue about this because PTI failed to conduct intra-party elections properly. When you don’t follow the law, there are consequences. [7], which the "consequences" remark inserts their political opinion regarding PTI into a talk page. In this comment Claiming it was a false flag operation is a serious accusation. Simply stating that it wasn’t isn’t sufficient; it requires an explanation of why it wasn’t a false flag. [8], Sheriff challenges PTI's claim of a "false flag operation," which seems to stray into political bias, as it focuses on discrediting a political claim rather than representing the information in a factual manner. Additionally, another user pointed out that even after this report, Sheriff left remarks on an edit summary in the Imran Khan BLP [9]. The remark "One happy family, add a relevant photo of good time." is a further POV statement against Khan and is an insight into why they have added selectively imbalanced information and negative opinion pieces onto the Imran Khan BLP.

Edit Warring on Election Pages and 3RR
A major example of this behavior is that they reverted three times [10] [11] [12] on 2024 Pakistani general election, out of which 2 reverts were done within 24 hours, when already being told not to by multiple editors in this discussion, I decided to initiate a civil discussion first to avoid an edit war with Sheriff, though they still continued edit warring, continuing to quickly reduce the PTI's seats despite no consensus. Though this was solved, it is a repeated and worsening pattern of adding imbalanced content against Imran Khan and the PTI, exhibiting WP:IDHT in the talk page and then other users stepping in to resolve it.

Other Users Confirming This Behavior
Saqib - Saqib has raised concerns multiple times over SheriffIsInTown's POV pushing behavior patterns against PTI and Imran Khan on several pages including on Sheriff's talk page, primarily Sheriff removing PTI on election pages as well as in this discussion and here.

WikiEnthusiast1001 - WikiEnthusiast1001 has accused Sheriff of disruptive editing on the Imran Khan page and other pages recently. They also balanced out Sheriff's one-sided edits on Imran Khan and pointed out: This section is oddly worded and would be clearer if titled 'Controversies.' It presents a one-sided view without mentioning Imran's later clarifications. As Titan and I have noted, your strong involvement with this page suggests a potential bias. It might be best for you to take a break from editing and come back with fresh perspective. Take some time to unwind—there's more to life than just editing Wikipedia In their edit diff.

Saad Ali Khan Pakistan - Saad Ali Khan Pakistan has has accused SheriffIsInTown of bullying and constantly reverting his edits on election pages here and here. He recently urged admins to take action against Sheriff for said disruptive behavior.

I urge admins to take action for the POV pushing behavior, as multiple other users have taken notice of it, and the diffs on the Imran Khan BLP are clear. The resolution to this negative editing pattern which has to be constantly corrected for NPOV, would be a topic ban on pages related to Imran Khan for SheriffIsInTown. Titan2456 (talk) 20:44, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

Most of the accusations mentioned here were addressed in a previous ANI, where the majority of uninvolved editors dismissed their report. After Drmies closed the discussion, they approached Drmies to reopen the discussion, but their request was denied, and they were instructed to present stronger evidence, which they have been attempting to gather since then. As I mentioned, most of these accusations were already discussed and dismissed in the previous ANI. If an admin highlights anything new, I will gladly address it. Most issues arise from OP adding promotional or biased content, which compels me to step in and balance the narrative. Their support for PTI and its leaders is clear from the user box displayed on their user page, as seen in this revision:

This user supports the
Pakistan Tehreek-e-Insaf

They are not a neutral editor and are not here to contribute to building an encyclopedia but are instead driven by a political agenda. So far, I have only managed to address a fraction of their edits. In nearly every article related to a PTI figure that they have edited, they predominantly added promotional content, much of which still requires balancing—a task I intend to continue as time permits. I anticipate that they will return here repeatedly, as the promotional content they add can only be counterbalanced with material they may not favour, given their support for PTI and its leaders. They are upset with me because I am the only one standing in their way. Sheriff | ☎ 911 | 22:24, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

Hello, Titan2456, please post an ANI notification on the User talk page of every editor you mention in your opening comments, not just Sheriff. They should know that their comments might be discussed. No comment yet on the substance of your remarks. Thank you. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 22:50, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

To SheriffIsInTown, most of these accusations were not taken up in the previous ANI, in fact several incidents brought up occurred after the first ANI. As mentioned, everyone is free to have their opinions on their user pages. Digging up old, now removed, revisions of my user page is not appropriate. This thread is on the POV pushing on the Imran Khan BLP which is very concerning as other users have pointed out as well.

This user supports the
Pakistan Muslim League (N).

As for the old pro-PTI userbox, I can easily find an old pro-PMLN userbox that existed your user page. Again, userboxes are irrelevant in this thread, and everyone is entitled to their own opinions as long as it does not affect the content of the encyclopedia, which the POV pushing on the Imran Khan BLP has. Titan2456 (talk) 20:28, 23 November 2024 (UTC)

It reflects an extreme level of battleground mentality to retrieve old versions of a deleted user page from the internet. The diffs I shared were entirely on-wiki and permissible for use. I created the articles First 100 days of Imran Khan’s premiership and Premiership of Imran Khan, which, up to the revisions shown, consist exclusively of my contributions. How much support for PML (N) do you see there? In contrast, your edits consistently reflect support for PTI. Sheriff | ☎ 911 | 21:33, 23 November 2024 (UTC)

Here, they express a clear intention to specifically expand the criticism and allegations section against Ishaq Dar, a political opponent of PTI—the party they have openly declared their support for. Can we trust an editor who has openly aligned themselves with a political party and then explicitly states their intent to add criticism and allegations to articles about leaders of the opposing party? Shouldn’t their edits be reviewed for neutrality? Furthermore, they repeatedly file ANI reports against me for merely attempting to balance their edits, which ultimately wastes everyone’s time. Sheriff | ☎ 911 | 01:44, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

So much to unpack, so maybe I'll go section by section. The POV pushing appears to be neutrally balanced. The wording could be better, but that's why there's a talk page. Aggressive behavior? I mean yeah it's aggressive but it feels more like a slap on the wrist type of warning that could be given, nothing more. The 3RR was discussed last time. Two NOTFORUM remarks doesn't feel like enough and they aren't exactly forum-like comments anyways. So, what actually do you want accomplished? Do you need someone to wag their finger at Sheriff and tell them to calm down? From what I can tell aggression is not equal to disruption, but making constant ANI reports about one user is. Conyo14 (talk) 02:35, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

Thank you for your response Conyo14, my primary concern is the POV pushing, which as stated is about not including other viewpoints (only adding criticism) when already knowing of such information. The opinion piece citation, only adding extensive amounts of negative information as well as watering down positive language on the Imran Khan BLP is WP:CPUSH. The reason for filing 2 reports was that following the report, Sheriff continued the same behavior, hence I have reported them again, with new information. The information added by Sheriff itself is not neutral, as it is covering contentious topics and presenting only one-sided views and criticism, it is POV. I acknowledge that most of these were solved in talk pages but the discussions involved WP:IDHT, with Sheriff ignoring points. For the 3RR example, it was only resolved after Saqib stepped in and the Imran Khan BLP after WikiEnthusiast1001 did. Similarly, in a recent discussion regarding the PTI's seat count, they have claimed to refuted Al Jazeera, BBC and multiple other newspapers with these remarks, which provides no source and ignores multiple sources given, it also ignores past and repeated discussions. These are repeated editing patterns and not isolated incidents which is why I have brought it to ANI. Regarding actions, if a user continues to cite opinion pieces, misrepresent sources to favor negative information, and present one-sided views on a specific BLP, I believe a topic ban from that specific BLP is a reasonable solution if this behavior persists after the first ANI report. I hope this clarifies this. Thank you. Titan2456 (talk) 16:25, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

It seems more like countering your POV. In case you did not hear it, Conyo14 stated, So much to unpack, so maybe I’ll go section by section. The POV pushing appears to be neutrally balanced. This means they took the time to review your over 8,000-byte report, examined your evidence, and concluded that what you called POV pushing was actually an effort to achieve neutral balance. As I have explained before, in case you didn’t hear it, most of my edits were made to counter the overly promotional and one-sided content you added. That’s why my contributions might seem more negative—they balance out the positive bias you had already introduced. You left no room for me to add anything positive because your edits were so overwhelmingly favourable. Why would you submit an 8,000-byte report? Do you think I don’t face challenges with other editors? Yet, I don’t file such extensive reports against anyone because I have no political affiliation. Filing such a lengthy report suggests more than just volunteerism—it points to a deeper affiliation. You might have a conflict of interest here. A topic ban is warranted—not for me, but for you. You should be restricted from editing any post-1970 Pakistani politics-related articles to prevent further use of Wikipedia for advancing PTI’s political agenda and for targeting living opponents of PTI. Sheriff | ☎ 911 | 20:00, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

What promotional information did I add on the Imran Khan BLP which prompted you to cite a negative opinion piece for two paragraphs without mentioning it was an opinion piece? When you added a paragraph about one large negative opinion piece, I was forced to balance it with some short sentences on some positive opinions (which there were multiple), which you did not allow for by selectively extracting negative information from positive opinion pieces, why was this? What promotional content did I add for you to add one-sided claims about Imran Khan's comments on sexual violence? Also, which living opponents of PTI have I "targeted", are you talking about Ishaq Dar? I have added no information on his article, please follow up, as I want to know which opponents of PTI I have disproportionally represented. Titan2456 (talk) 21:58, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

Sheriff, it is not wrong to express support for a political party. It becomes a COI if Titan were working with a campaign or for the political party's headquarters. However, it will be very good to keep in mind during the next ANI report, if there is one.

Titan, again, that statement isn't POV pushing, but it was worded very poorly. The wording is much more appropriate now. Conyo14 (talk) 00:32, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

Expressing support for a political party is not inherently problematic, but when that support influences their editing and compromises neutrality, it becomes an issue. Based on my observations, the content they add to articles about PTI tends to lack neutral language and leans towards being promotional. For instance, the section titled "Education Sector Reforms" on PTI president's article focuses solely on achievements and could have been phrased in a more neutral manner. Sheriff | ☎ 911 | 01:27, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

To Conyo14, Yes, the wording is better now following the balancing corrections added by me and other users. The situation is that these are repeated incidents that I cannot keep correcting. If it was just citing an opinion piece or adding extensive negative information to Imran Khan’s time in office, I would give Sheriff the benefit of the doubt, but continuing to add Khan’s controversial comments on rape without him and his government’s clarification, despite Sheriff knowing this and expanding negative content from positive opinion pieces is a bit too far to be good faith. If you believe that filing an ANI report again for this is not the right course of action then please advise me what would be if this pattern is repeating over and over on a contentious high priority BLP. Thank you Conyo14. Titan2456 (talk) 01:57, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

The appropriate course of action for you would be to refrain from adding promotional content in the first place and instead ensure that the content is balanced, so I don’t need to intervene to correct it. Regarding content related to sexual misconduct, please note that there are standalone articles addressing such matters for other political figures, such as Andrew Cuomo sexual harassment allegations and Donald Trump sexual misconduct allegations. The content I added was fully sourced, so there is no basis for you to criticise me for including it. Sheriff | ☎ 911 | 02:18, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

As mentioned in the above comment, they added promotional content to the article on PTI president Parvez Elahi, as shown in this diff. Upon closer inspection, I identified issues with the first part of the content, while the second part references a PDF that will take me some time to review thoroughly. The first part, as noted in my edit summaries, was sourced to the university’s website, claiming the university was built by Elahi. There were two sources cited: The first source was a message from the vice chancellor. I removed it, explaining in the edit summary that it was a “Primary source, sourced to Vice Chancellor’s message.” The second source did not mention Elahi at all, so I removed the content with the edit summary “And no mention of Elahi in this second source.” For now, as long as this ANI remains open, I will continue reporting my findings on their apparent bias in favour of PTI. Sheriff | ☎ 911 | 04:37, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

Spot on @Titan2456, I agree that a topic ban should be placed on Sheriff. Here, Sheriff makes a peculiar comment: "One happy family, add a relevant photo of good time." Similar to statements from Khan's opposition, this is highly unencyclopedic. Strangely, he placed the 2018 image in the Removal from office section, even though Khan was removed in 2022. Possibly biased? WikiEnthusiast1001 (talk) 05:29, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

There is nothing inappropriate about the comment. In the picture, they are smiling and can reasonably be described as "happy." Additionally, the fact that the picture is from 2018 is irrelevant since the section discusses the Army's role in Khan's removal. This is the only picture I could find where Khan and Bajwa, the head of the Army during his tenure, are present together. Why is it that no pictures of Khan interacting with Army personnel are being included in articles about him? While he may have had conflicts with the Army, we, as volunteer Wikipedians, do not. Moreover, why does Titan appear to be adding the cropped version of the same picture with Pompeo that excludes Bajwa? They are even placing that cropped picture of Khan with Pompeo under the Domestic appointments section, which does not align with the section's content. In contrast, the version, showing Bajwa, would have been far more relevant to the Domestic appointments section since Bajwa's tenure was extended during Khan's time. Sheriff | ☎ 911 | 11:39, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

@WikiEnthusiast1001 Since you are already here, why not explain your action to remove the only criticism from the COVID-19 response section while filling it entirely with achievements and praise? The section is now heavily imbalanced and lacks a neutral perspective due to the removal of criticism. How about we hold you accountable for this action and consider a topic ban, given how readily you suggest such measure against me? Sheriff | ☎ 911 | 12:53, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

You are unfairly accusing me of removing criticism when I only removed excessive detail. Readers could easily hover over the citation to see the criticism, which was unnecessary and overly detailed. As @Titan2456 and @Saad Ali Khan Pakistan have pointed out, you seem overly attached to this page, treating it as if you own it. You've harassed multiple contributors, including me, by falsely accusing me of removing sources simply because they were Indian during the Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Robert Cawthome (2nd nomination) discussion. Your stubborn refusal to admit your mistake there and in this second ANI shows that YOU are the problem. WikiEnthusiast1001 (talk) 04:24, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

You did not remove excessive detail, as I highlighted in my earlier comment with the diff. You actually removed the only criticism in the COVID-19 response section, replacing it entirely with achievements. Should I paste here exactly what you added and removed in that edit? Accusing me of being overly attached to the article is baseless. Over your eleven months of account activity, your average monthly edits on this article surpass my own throughout my account’s lifespan—if we’re using that metric. Regarding the AfD, yes, I voted to keep and defended my stance with the sources I found. Ultimately, I was proven wrong, and you won the debate. However, that does not justify taunting me over and over and over again. I even approached your talk page to request that you drop the stick, yet you refuse to hear. Sheriff | ☎ 911 | 11:33, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

Per WP:DETAIL you are supposed to summarize the main article, not add tens of negative Op-Eds. Titan2456 (talk) 16:15, 24 November 2024 (UTC)

So, you are saying that per WP:DETAIL, adding all the following positive coverage by Enthusiast was okay: At the start of the pandemic, Imran Khan resisted a nationwide lockdown despite criticism from the opposition and others. He explained that while his government considered lockdowns implemented in other countries, they determined such measures would devastate Pakistan’s struggling economy, where many depend on daily wages.

“The Pakistan situation is not the same as that of the US or Europe...25 percent of our population is living in grave poverty,” Khan said in a televised address. “If we shut down cities, we might save people from corona, but they will die of hunger.”

Instead of placing a nationwide lockdown, Khan implemented targeted measures, shutting down COVID-19 hotspots by using military technology to track and trace those exposed. This "smart lockdown" approach aimed to isolate affected areas while minimizing economic disruption. "The ISI has given us a great system for track and trace," the prime minister, Imran Khan, said. "It was originally used against terrorism, but now it is has come in useful against coronavirus."

Khan's strategy proved effective, when he was praised by the World Health Organization (WHO) for his government's response to the virus by establishing temporary isolation wards. Bangladesh's The Business Standard lauded him for his "Smart Lockdowns", while the Imperial College of London ranked Pakistan at fourth for coronavirus reproduction in the country based on data from 20 July 2020. Pakistan achieved a rating of 0.73 rate, countries below 1 rating were considered the best for their efforts against Covid. In The Express Tribune, Muhammad Zohaib Jawaid said the PTI government achieved a "V-shaped economic recovery."

In September 2020, the World Health Organization (WHO) said Pakistan was "among countries from whom the international community should learn how to deal with the Covid-19 pandemic."

In July 2021, Pakistan was ranked among the top 10 countries for its handling of Covid-19 by The Economist. Khan commended the National Command and Operation Center (NCOC), established by his government, for playing a significant role in the achievement. Pakistan secured the third spot with a score of 84.4. The top-ranked country was Hong Kong, scoring 96.3, followed by New Zealand with a score of 87.8.

In the East Asia Forum, Shuja Nawaz wrote Pakistan's "serious economic crisis exacerbated by COVID-19 forced Khan to seek external assistance" from the IMF, Saudi Arabia and China.

But following one paragraph of criticism which was removed by Enthusiast was not okay per WP:DETAIL: In an opinion editorial wrote in March 2020, Ayesha Siddiqa wrote Khan "appeared confused and not in charge of the situation. From poorly explaining the risks associated with the spread of the deadly coronavirus to badly calculating the pros and cons of a lockdown, the Pakistan Prime Minister has looked clueless". In April 2020, Imad Zafar penned an opinion editorial in The Asia Times, wrote Khan's government was "playing the blame game by bashing opposition politicians to divert the masses’ attention from the pandemic’s effect". In April 2020, the government's responses led to pandemic-related response confusion, being "lackadaisical" and having "deprived the country of a clear sense of direction."

References

Sheriff | ☎ 911 | 17:13, 24 November 2024 (UTC)

@Drmies or other available admins: I would like to point out that the OP keeps altering the original report after responses have been made. I believe this practice should be avoided, as earlier comments only address the initial report and not the subsequent changes. Given this concern, I request the closure of the report, as it is impractical to continually track and respond to the modifications being introduced. Sheriff | ☎ 911 | 00:22, 23 November 2024 (UTC)

The report shouldn’t be closed as the POV pushing on the Imran Khan BLP has not been addressed. My changes to the report only includes one new point which occurred after the report, with the remaining alterations being minor clarifications to the report. However I will stop altering the report if that is of concern to admins. Titan2456 (talk) 00:50, 23 November 2024 (UTC)

You should not modify a report or any comment that has already received a response. This is part of basic ethics about any discussion on Wikipedia. Sheriff | ☎ 911 | 01:15, 23 November 2024 (UTC)

I don’t believe there is a Wikipedia law preventing me from editing my own report, besides, admins will decide when it is closed, not you. Titan2456 (talk) 14:42, 23 November 2024 (UTC)

I was not deciding on my own, I was requesting the admins. 🙂 Sheriff | ☎ 911 | 14:50, 23 November 2024 (UTC)

@Titan2456: Actually, there is. You should NOT alter your posts after someone has replied to them. It's considered disruptive and can result in sanctions. See WP:REDACT. — The Hand That Feeds You:^Bite 17:43, 24 November 2024 (UTC)

Understood, I stopped altering it after Sheriff informed me, thank you. Titan2456 (talk) 18:01, 24 November 2024 (UTC)

Additionally, this report was frivolous to begin with and has already run its course, with only one uninvolved editor, Conyo14, commenting and dismissing the POV concerns raised against me. However, the counter-evidence I presented regarding the OP and the other involved editor, WikiEnthusiast1001, requires evaluation. Unfortunately, we have not received any input from uninvolved editors regarding their behaviour. Sheriff | ☎ 911 | 01:12, 23 November 2024 (UTC)

A slight correction: Conyo14 did note that the OP’s repeated filing of an ANI constitutes disruptive behaviour, which, in my view, supports my stance that this was a frivolous ANI. Sheriff | ☎ 911 | 02:25, 23 November 2024 (UTC)

That is why it is best to wait for an admin response rather than bludgeoning and rushing for a closure of discussion. Drmies also raised concerns over the POV pushing, which is why more admins must be heard from on the POV pushing. Titan2456 (talk) 02:29, 23 November 2024 (UTC)

I was correct to raise the concern about your modification of the report which has already received scores of replies. It is totally unfair for you to do that, you should revert those edits made after the report started receiving replies. Nobody is trying to bludgeon, I merely stated the feedback we have received so far. Drmies' concern has already been addressed, and I have clarified my position in response. Additionally, most Wikipedia editors are volunteers, and ANI is an integral part of Wikipedia. We cannot compel anyone to provide feedback. When participating in a forum, you should accept the voluntary feedback given and move forward. Sheriff | ☎ 911 | 04:21, 23 November 2024 (UTC)

It has received only 2 replies by admins. By that logic Conyo14’s concern has already been addressed, we have to wait for an admin decision. The last part of your comment is unwarranted, everyone knows this information that applies to closed discussions, I can also say the same for violating consensus and BRD multiple times to add opinion pieces and one-sided information. You cannot disavow a report involving you as frivolous, wait for admins. Titan2456 (talk) 14:47, 23 November 2024 (UTC)

This discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
I agree too. Saad Ali Khan Pakistan (talk) 13:09, 21 November 2024 (UTC) (blocked sock of LanguageXpert) I have been editing in Wikipedia since 2017 and I tried to be as neural as possible while editing pages. I never involved in unnecessary changes or edits which are not related to that person. I mainly focused on constituency pages and electoral history related pages because they were not updated like electoral pages of India. I edited over 900 constituency pages of National Assembly and Provincial assemblies of Pakistan and didn't favor any party or went against any party or politician. I was editing daily until Sheriff came and started bullying by reverting edits I made before 2024 elections. I wanted to add election boxes in constituency pages so that during and after election results it would be easy for the editors to edit and write results. He came and reverted my edits and even after elections when majority of Media sources from Pakistan and the World were showing PTI backed Independents separate from other Independents having support of no parties. He started to argue with me and reverted my edits again. I stopped editing since March because I don't have spare time to waste on a person who likes to bully and argue with other editors like he owns Wikipedia. If a person writes information without credible source their edits should be reverted but if someone reverts edits for no reason than I consider this harassment and bullying and this needs to be stopped. An Institution like Wikipedia should not tolerate bullies like Sheriff which misuse their influence and bully other editors. I request Administration to take serious action against bullies like Sheriff. Saad Ali Khan Pakistan (talk) (blocked sock of LanguageXpert)

User:SheriffIsInTown, I'm a bit surprised you made this edit. Drmies (talk) 19:02, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

• I don't have an opinion on the conduct of either party or on the content of the article. The filing editor had filed a request at DRN for moderated discussion, and then filed this case here. I have closed the DRN discussion because we do not discuss a dispute at DRN that is also being discussed in another content forum or a conduct forum. Robert McClenon (talk) 19:06, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

  I support that decision, thank you Robert McClenon. Titan2456 (talk) 19:13, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

@Drmies There was certainly scope for improvement, and I accepted the subsequent revisions made to that content. That being said, that diff was part of the previous ANI filed against me. Sheriff | ☎ 911 | 19:28, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

Sheriff, you did not accept subsequent revisions, that is false, and this proves it’s not a one-off mistake. First, you undid my edit of mentioning it is an opinion piece, then you argued that it was a reliable source which did not need a mention of the opinion piece status, then when addressed in talk, you accused me of Why do you consistently choose the most positive angles for PTI and Imran Khan and never balance it with contrary views to maintain neutrality? I am simply correcting the one-sided narrative, which came across as a chancellorship campaign, portraying him as suffering and still fighting and campaigning from jail. simply because I told you it was necessary to mention it is an opinion piece. Finally after you were convinced, I added a short few sentences about 3 positive opinion pieces, which as per WP:DUE would actually require more information than the 1 negative opinion piece. Regardless, you didn’t even allow for that and selectively extracted negative information from these mostly positive opinion pieces. Admins, I once again urge you to take notice of this behavior. Titan2456 (talk) 20:45, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

The edit you claim I undid was actually the result of an edit conflict. I had been working on several other language changes in that section for a while and had the editor open. It seems I published my edit around the same time as you, which inadvertently resulted in reverting your changes. Sheriff | ☎ 911 | 21:46, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

SheriffIsInTown, in the hatted portion of this discussion you mention the possibility of an "off-wiki PTI cabal". Please don't make conspiracy theory allegations like this unless you have some proof to support your claims. We're just focusing on editing on this project, not speculating about off-wiki connections which are unlikely to be real. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 05:36, 23 November 2024 (UTC)

@Liz Understood. I will refrain from doing so in the future. However, I have some screenshots showing that someone approached me with this information. I would prefer not to reveal the identity of my source. My comment was triggered by the repeated appearance of Saad Ali Khan Pakistan in these ANI discussions, despite their account not having been used for main space editing since March. Sheriff | ☎ 911 | 12:04, 23 November 2024 (UTC)

• WikiEnthusiast1001 has been observed removing archived URLs from content likely perceived as negative by PTI and Imran Khan supporters. By removing these links, the content risks being challenged or removed later for failed verification in case of a broken url. This material had been part of a longstanding consensus and previously involved intense disputes. In their edit summary, they claimed to be removing duplicate sources and a source with an incorrect date, but their edits included more extensive removals beyond what was stated. The issue here is their simultaneous request for my topic ban, which would give them greater control over the page to make such changes unchecked. Titan often misinterprets sources to present content more positively, while Enthusiast introduces questionable edits with summaries that omit critical details about their actions. I had to step in and restore those archived URLs, but with my removal from the article, it risks becoming an even more biased fan page than it already is. Ironically, they attempt to turn pages into fan pages and then submit them for GAN, which inevitably fails due to the lack of neutrality and balance, as seen in this case. Instead of pushing for my topic ban, they should be thanking me for bringing balance and neutrality to the article, helping it get closer to GAN. The beauty of Wikipedia is that people come from different backgrounds and with different perspectives which help achieve neutrality and balance. Sheriff | ☎ 911 | 15:23, 23 November 2024 (UTC)

  Your logic is flawed regarding "removing archived URLs from content likely perceived as negative by PTI and Imran Khan supporters." If I were genuinely trying to turn it into a fanpage or saw the content as negative, I would have removed the entire URLs, not just the archived versions. I removed the archived URLs because I believed they were unnecessary, given that the live links were still accessible. I realize now that this was a mistake and will include archived links moving forward. Before making false accusations, take the time to investigate. For instance, I replaced an inaccurate source claiming Sita died in 2012 with a reliable one providing the correct date. Additionally, I corrected the chronological order of references, which you restored without verifying. Since when does a permanently dead link like Hutchens & Midgley 2015 take precedence over live URLs? WikiEnthusiast1001 (talk) 02:22, 24 November 2024 (UTC)

  Per WP:CITEORDER, the ordering does not matter. Sheriff | ☎ 911 | 03:37, 24 November 2024 (UTC)

  After I informed them about WP:CITEORDER, Enthusiast proceeded to mass revert all the changes I had made throughout the day, despite my edits being done in smaller increments with clear explanations in the edit summaries. Their edit summary for the mass revert stated Restoring chronological order undone by Sheriff and removing duplicate AP link, but their actions reversed far more than just that but they blame me for ownership issues. Sheriff | ☎ 911 | 17:29, 24 November 2024 (UTC)

HATting discussion initiated by now blocked sockpuppet. — The Hand That Feeds You:Bite 18:01, 22 November 2024 (UTC)
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
This shows how neutral he is. In election pages of 1988 and 2015 Senate Elections MQM and PMLN ran as independents but they are shown as party but he is only showing PTI candidates as Independents. How can he do these kinds of edits without any discussion or consensus. Saad Ali Khan Pakistan (talk) 19:45, 20 November 2024 (UTC) (blocked sock of LanguageXpert) I do not recall ever editing the two Senate election pages you mentioned. Can you provide diffs showing me listing independent candidates as belonging to PML-N or MQM, or even supporting such a claim? It’s interesting how you appear in every ANI filed against me—this is the third one where you’ve shown up, repeating the same unfounded allegations. The last time, after seven months of inactivity, you surfaced specifically for my ANI. Your contribution frequency speaks for itself. For the onlookers: Saad Ali Khan Pakistan (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log), you are definitely not here to build encyclopedia but rather here to just target me. Sheriff | ☎ 911 | 20:09, 20 November 2024 (UTC) I went inactive just because of you. You were keep reverting my edits without no reason. You are the reason why Pakistani pages of Wikipedia are not updated like Indian or other countries. I wanted to contribute as much as possible but I will get bullied by reverting my edits by you. I give my time and effort and you come from no where and revert my edits by just one click. You should be ashamed of your behavior. Wherever any case will be filed involving you I will raise my voice to show your reality. Saad Ali Khan Pakistan (talk) 20:23, 20 November 2024 (UTC) (blocked sock of LanguageXpert) So, you are accepting that you are not here to build an encyclopedia but your life's mission now is to target me. Sheriff | ☎ 911 | 20:33, 20 November 2024 (UTC) I am here to show your reality of you that you are a bully. I don't consider bullies like you to be targeted or discussed. I am just here to give my opinion. My life has much important things to do instead of wasting my time and energy on a person like you who just likes to bully so that he gets discussed by other editors. I am not a supporter of any party and not a person like you targeting just one party and its leader and claims to be so-called "Neutral" which is a joke. Saad Ali Khan Pakistan (talk) 20:52, 20 November 2024 (UTC) (blocked sock of LanguageXpert) I don’t know the validity of Saad Ali Khan Pakistan’s claims but saying that he is not here to build an encyclopedia is absurd, when one takes a further notice at his contributions, he updated every single Pakistani Constituency with 2023 delimitations, a large set of neutral edits he would have nothing to gain out of. Additionally, Sheriff, if you think every user who says something against you is part of a “PTI cabal”, feel free to report them on ANI in a separate thread, as this thread is for your actions. To Administrators: So far, SheriffIsInTown has accused WikiEnthusiast1001, Myself and Saad Ali Khan Pakistan of being part of a “PTI cabal”, needing a topic ban and being not here to build an encycolpedia. Pardon my language but these claims are absurd, while SheriffIsInTown themselves has remained unanswerable for their POV pushing on the Imran Khan BLP, which is this threads topic. Titan2456 (talk) 20:53, 20 November 2024 (UTC) See constituency pages of NA-1 Chitral, PK-1 Chitral, PK-2 Chitral, PK-3 Swat which he reverted for no reason. I edited them before and he said it is against neutrality and when i tried editing again during and after election he reverted them again. I have seen Indian Lok Sabha pages which added candidates in election boxes before polls but he didnt let me add election boxes before election. every constituency of National Assembly is showing PTI backed Independents as regular independents which makes readers confusing. See 1988 elections MQM candidates an as independents but they are shown separate from other independents because they had support of MQM but he still showed PTI candidates as Independents. Saad Ali Khan Pakistan (talk) 21:08, 20 November 2024 (UTC) (blocked sock of LanguageXpert) Since you are speaking on their behalf, how do you explain their appearance in an ANI which you filed against me in October after being inactive since March? Did you approach them, and if so, how? Their actions—showing up in an ANI against me after seven months of inactivity and then appearing in this ANI again—clearly suggest they are not here to contribute to building an encyclopedia but are solely targeting me. Can you explain what else they have contributed to over the last eight months? Feel free to report them on ANI in a separate thread, as this thread is about your actions. However, when you accuse someone of wrongdoing in an ANI, your own behaviour can also be scrutinised. Separate ANIs are not necessary for that. Keep in mind that if you file an ANI against another editor, your actions will also be subject to evaluation. Sheriff | ☎ 911 | 22:06, 20 November 2024 (UTC) Are you really asking that question? When someone is tagged/mentioned in an ANI report, you get a notification as I tagged Saad Ali Khan Pakistan in both reports. Titan2456 (talk) 22:13, 20 November 2024 (UTC) Even if I were away from Wikipedia for seven months, I wouldn’t return solely to participate in an ANI or constantly monitor my notifications to ensure I don’t miss appearing in one. It’s simply not practical—unless someone is so driven by a battleground mindset that they make a deliberate effort to check their notifications daily to seize every possible opportunity. Sheriff | ☎ 911 | 22:26, 20 November 2024 (UTC) Moreover, how do you hear about ANI's against me? Are you part of some off-wiki PTI cabal that I have heard so much about? Sheriff | ☎ 911 | 20:39, 20 November 2024 (UTC) This has been long due 👉🏽 Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/LanguageXpert. Sheriff | ☎ 911 | 00:09, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

Sanctions

At this point, I think some page-blocks needed handed out, at least temporarily to force these participants to discuss the issue rather than constantly reverting and/or edit-warring over the article. This is beyond ridiculous. — The Hand That Feeds You:^Bite 17:49, 24 November 2024 (UTC)

Full protection of the article Imran Khan would be ideal, restricting edits to administrators only based on edit requests at the talk page. This would ensure that no content is added based on a misinterpretation of the sources. Sheriff | ☎ 911 | 18:07, 24 November 2024 (UTC)

I agree with HandThatFeeds. The page may just need some temporary blocks on the involved participants until order is restored. Imran Khan is a good start. Then maybe the election pages. The original complaint I think has been thoroughly discussed enough to end the bickering here, until the next ANI complaint at least. Conyo14 (talk) 17:41, 25 November 2024 (UTC)

I was dragged to ANI by the OP and had no choice but to defend myself. So far, the only editor who raised any concerns was Drmies, who questioned just one of my edits, and even then, it was unclear, with the comment "I'm a bit surprised you made this edit." That specific edit was already part of the ANI filed by the same OP in October. I acknowledged that I had made a mistake in not properly attributing the content, and I accepted the necessary changes in later revisions. Allowing this situation to set a precedent would imply that persistent complaints and enough bickering at ANI could lead to a ban, regardless of whether there was a genuine reason for it. This would effectively reward disruptive behavior—if I make enough noise at ANI, I could get the outcome I want. It would tarnish my record, and I want to avoid that if my editing actions don't justify a ban. Sheriff | ☎ 911 | 18:36, 25 November 2024 (UTC)

1) The subsequent revisions were not accepted and it took a lengthy discussion, which involved multiple unnecessary bad faith accusations towards me.

2) As mentioned, multiple instances of this behavior, spanning multiple months on the same BLP, always pushing towards a negative stance is the concern, not isolated mistakes.

3) To SheriffIsInTown, I still request a response for this comment, which is yet to receive a response: “What promotional information did I add on the Imran Khan BLP which prompted you to cite a negative opinion piece for two paragraphs without mentioning it was an opinion piece? When you added a paragraph about one large negative opinion piece, I was forced to balance it with some short sentences on some positive opinions (which there were multiple), which you did not allow for by selectively extracting negative information from positive opinion pieces, why was this? What promotional content did I add for you to add one-sided claims about Imran Khan's comments on sexual violence? Also, which living opponents of PTI have I "targeted", are you talking about Ishaq Dar? I have added no information on his article, please follow up, as I want to know which opponents of PTI I have disproportionally represented.”

4) After this is addressed, I would support the page block TheHandThatFeeds proposed to prevent the continuation of this behavior, thank you. Titan2456 (talk) 22:33, 25 November 2024 (UTC)

From this point on, I will only respond if an uninvolved editor raises a concern. Our back-and-forth has already made this ANI unnecessarily lengthy. Sheriff | ☎ 911 | 22:37, 25 November 2024 (UTC)

I would also like to point out that SheriffIsInTown is still making changes to the Imran Khan page. Titan2456 (talk) 03:21, 26 November 2024 (UTC)

Nothing's been implemented, and I doubt anything will be. Unfortunately for the involved, this will more than likely taken back to the respective talk pages and this ANI will have no repercussions, aside from a sock being found. Conyo14 (talk) 16:26, 26 November 2024 (UTC)

Just a further notice, SheriffIsInTown has yet again placed imbalanced undue weight on negative sources on the Imran Khan BLP. They have again cited an opinion piece without mentioning it is an opinion piece and reduced a news report into an opinion piece.

In April 2020, the government's responses led to pandemic-related response confusion, being "lackadaisical" and having "deprived the country of a clear sense of direction." The third source, added by Sheriff, is an opinion piece is not mentioned as an opinion piece.

In The Express Tribune, Muhammad Zohaib Jawaid said the PTI government achieved a "V-shaped economic recovery." This source, which I added, is a report not an opinion piece, yet has been given undue weight by SheriffIsInTown and has been reduced to a short sentence.

The only difference between the two topics is one speaks positively about Khan and one speaks negatively. Not sure if it would be a better idea to take this up with the NPOV noticeboard as I don’t want to waste the admins time. Titan2456 (talk) 00:41, 27 November 2024 (UTC)

They are misrepresenting everything here. As I mentioned earlier, I will no longer provide lengthy responses to defend myself unless an uninvolved editor or admin specifically asks me to explain. Please do not interpret my lack of response or defense as an admission of guilt. Sheriff | ☎ 911 | 00:57, 27 November 2024 (UTC)

References

Multiple individuals involved in dispute blocked for sockpuppetry/private evidence

• I do find something a bit odd here with respect to the "Other Users Confirming This Behavior" section mentioned by OP in the initial post: Saad Ali Khan Pakistan (talk⁺ · tag · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log · CA · CheckUser(log) · investigate · cuwiki) has been blocked as a sockupppet, while Saqib (talk⁺ · tag · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log · CA · CheckUser(log) · investigate · cuwiki) has been ArbCom blocked. This was not obvious to anyone at the start of this thread on 17 November, though I would encourage users to read this thread anew in that light. — Red-tailed hawk _(nest) 17:53, 26 November 2024 (UTC)

Wider POV pushing against PTI

I am now aware that the POV pushing committed by SheriffIsInTown is not only against Imran Khan but also against his political party, the Pakistan Tehreek-e-Insaf and POV pushing in favor of its opponent, the Pakistan Muslim League (N).

They have been using an agitating amount of WP:IDHT in discussions. They are currently saying that the Allegations of rigging in the 2024 Pakistani general election has nothing to do with Shehbaz Sharif, the person who won the elections and is facing the rigging charges, while Sheriff is removing his template, for context that is the equivalent of removing Joe Biden from Attempts to overturn the 2020 United States presidential election.

As mentioned before, they have tried multiple times to remove the PTI from election pages using edit warring and ignoring consensus and the fact that all media outlets unanimously say PTI contested the elections. [13][14] They also resorted to political opinions in discussions saying that "PTI is only a big party because they rigged elections in 2018", [15]. Their behavior is clearly disruptive and political.

They downplayed language critical of the PMLN by changing a source’s mention of "historic rigging" to less assertive phrases [16] and making Imran Khan's imprisonment appear as merely "suggested" by himself to "may be" politically motivated [17]. However, when it comes to PTI figures, Sheriff used stronger language, as seen in the Imran Khan BLP and adding extensive negative information and opinion pieces.

They have been observed trying to remove criticism and controversies from Asif Ali Zardari and Qazi Faez Isa, opponents of the PTI without proper reason. [18][19]

Violating WP:AGF is not usually something users are given warnings or sanctions for, but they have done it again and again for me, to a point that that is just how they start discussions now saying all my edits are just POV without any proof.

Even in this ANI report itself, Sheriff begins by saying that no one with a userbox supporting a political party should be editing on these pages, which firstly goes against what Wikipedia stands for: that anyone can edit. Secondly, all of their arguments such as: Can we trust an editor who has openly aligned themselves with a political party Have been completely discredited now that they have been found using a pro-PMLN userbox on their user page. Surprising they would make such arguments when they themselves know they had a similar userbox.

There are so many of these edits to shuffle through on BLPs, election pages, talk pages and political events, showing a consistent bias on the accord of one user, and multiple other users have raised the exact same concerns. All of this evidence is not included in the ANI report, which further warrants a topic ban. Titan2456 (talk) 21:25, 29 November 2024 (UTC)

As mentioned earlier, I will not provide lengthy replies in my defense unless an uninvolved editor or admin raises a concern. As HandThatFeeds noted, volunteer editors are tired of the ongoing back and forth. The OP’s continued posting in this thread, despite no uninvolved editor supporting their allegations, seems like an attempt to keep this ANI open. I request the admins to either close this ANI or, if they find my behaviour problematic, raise specific concerns so I can address them. Sheriff | ☎ 911 | 22:47, 29 November 2024 (UTC)

Category:Requests for unblock under sustained attack by MidAtlanticBaby

See Category:Requests for unblock and examples at User talk:5.167.250.250, User talk:80.85.151.106, User talk:90.5.100.140, User talk:126.15.241.147, and User talk:201.170.89.89. This is the WP:LTA known as MidAtlanticBaby. I've handled about 25 of these in the past hour or so. In general, my approach is to block the IP address (it's always a VPNgate proxy) for a year without TPA, delete the page and salt it. Anything less, anything less, doesn't work. Anyway, it's too much. This has been going on in various forms for months. I give up and will no longer patrol Category:Requests for unblock until we figure out a way to better handle MidAtlanticBaby, ideally automatically. This isn't me taking my ball and going home, not at all. I simply can't keep up and can't be productive with this garbage sucking all my time and energy. --Yamla (talk) 23:04, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

I'm sorry you've had so much of your time wasted on that nonsense. You are too valuable an administrator and community member to have to continue with that. Bgsu98 (Talk) 23:09, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

Thanks, Bgsu98. Arguably, this discussion should be merged into Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard#Seeking_opinions:_protection_of_the_help_desk_and_teahouse. If anyone thinks that's accurate, feel free to do so. For me, it's time to go cook supper. :) --Yamla (talk) 23:12, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

We need to get better at dealing with determined bad actors who have the resources or sophistication to keep switching proxies/VPNs like this. And yes, that has include the WMF going after them in meatspace. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 23:13, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

Its incessant. If the Foundation doesn't clamp down on it forthwith, I'll be following suit with Yamla. Maybe they can cook me dinner.-- Ponyo^{bons mots} 23:26, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

Has ArbCom raised this with the WMF at all? -- asilvering (talk) 04:32, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

(Non-administrator comment) I'll ask a question to the admins as I truly want to help; do you guys want us to revert the weird edits before the IP is blocked, where it kind of goes back and fourth in reverts, or just leave it there? Considering MAB will read this, feel free to not answer. win8x (talk) 23:34, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

As long at it isn't hugely obscene, leave it and report the IP. Mass mutual reversions do nothing but fill the page history. DatGuy^Talk_Contribs 23:39, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

Got it. This could be useful to tell people, because right now this fills up the edit filter log, and as you said, page histories. win8x (talk) 23:46, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

(Non-administrator comment): Doesn't ptwiki require a login now? We should see how that's working and seriously consider doing the same. Sumanuil. _{(talk to me)} 01:25, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

This is pretty drastic. Besides, MAB as recently as today, used logged-in accounts to do the usual. Clearing your cookies is easy, so I don't think this would even change anything. win8x (talk) 01:30, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

Per HJ Mitchell above, given the particulars here situation it seems clearly preferable for WMF to take them to court if their identity is known. I know WMF has been questioned recently as regards the personal information of users, but there is no reason that seeking legal remedy against one of the most disruptive serial bad-faith actors in site history should be seen as a violation of trust or principles. Remsense ‥ 论 03:07, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

Do you really expect WMF to be able to track down someone using an anonymous peer to peer VPN service designed to evade nation state surveillance and censorship? It's probably better to let Bbb23 (talk · contribs) and other moderators who enjoy routinely blocking people handle it. 2602:FE43:1:46DD:A8D1:430:2300:D52F (talk) 03:39, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

No, it's not preferable. I meant exactly what I said: if the WMF has that information, they should pursue legal action. If they don't, then obviously that's not an option. Remsense ‥ 论 03:42, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

They don't have that information. At most, WMF has a few IP addresses that the providing ISPs can possibly track to a relatively small number out of thousands of innocent third parties. 2602:FE43:1:46DD:A8D1:430:2300:D52F (talk) 03:47, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

Neither you nor I know what the WMF knows or does not know. When people play with fire for months or years on end, sometimes they make a mistake. Remsense ‥ 论 03:49, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

They knew exactly who JarlaxleArtemis was and couldn't do shit for decades about him because his ISP and the VPN providers he used refused to play ball. It took him threatening Merriam-Webster to get rid of him via unrelated legal action. I imagine WMF Legal is similarly constrained with MidAtlanticBaby. —Jéské Couriano v^_^v ^{threads critiques} 08:06, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

@Jéské Couriano didn't he threaten a senator? I thought that was his downfall. Not that I wish prison on these people, we just want them to go away. Anyway, the climate is changing and ISPs, governments, etc ate increasingly willong to act on online abuse that wouldn't be tolerated in meatspace. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 12:27, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

@HJ Mitchell: It was threatening Merriam-Webster that ultimately did him in, per news reports. (I will not link them per WP:OUTING.) —Jéské Couriano v^_^v ^{threads critiques} 19:38, 23 November 2024 (UTC)

Late, but I know there are some ISPs who respond to abuse reports regarding WP. I managed to stop an LTA by reporting them to their ISP - actually I never got a response from the ISP but the LTA disappeared shortly after and hasn't been seen since. wizzito | say hello! 00:51, 30 November 2024 (UTC)

I think the WMF could do that. As others said, the LTA is using VPNGate, which has an anti-abuse policy here. VPNGate sounds like they would disclose information, provided the WMF's lawyers do something. win8x (talk) 03:50, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

I'm going to start a discussion over on the WP:AN thread about this. Remsense ‥ 论 03:53, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

VPNGate doesn't really have that info either. They have the IP address the client connects from. However, if MAB is smart, they are using multiple levels of VPN, anonymous proxies and/or open WiFi access in countries without cooperating legal agreements with the US and other entities where WMF has legal standing. 2602:FE43:1:46DD:A8D1:430:2300:D52F (talk) 03:56, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

I don't know if MAB is that smart. From what I know, MAB is *probably* from the US. Besides, MAB was blocked by a CheckUser. Yes, it was 5 months ago, but that tells me that he wasn't using a VPN at the time. The WMF themselves could have that information. (Just want to say I have 0 expertise in this and I am maybe saying some bullshit) win8x (talk) 04:03, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

It's clearly worth investigating. Remsense ‥ 论 04:08, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

CheckUser isn't a magic bullet as CheckUser blocks are often based on behavioral "evidence". It all comes down to luck and how much time and money WMF wants to spend on a fairly benign troll and if they want to repeat that process for each of the minor vandals out there doing something similar. Or WMF could just force people to login with an account tied to a confirmed email address in order to be able to edit which is the more likely outcome of the community pushing them to take action in cases like this. 2602:FE43:1:46DD:A8D1:430:2300:D52F (talk) 04:18, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

I wouldn't calll MAB "benign". They are more than a troll, they are a vandal and actively try to get extended confirmed so that they can harras an editor they think, wrongly, is responsible for them being blocked. They regularly make death threats against editors and admins who revert their vandalism. They suck up a lot of editor time and are incredibly persistent, easily making dozens and dozens of edits over the course of an hour or two. They are one of the worst sockmasters I've come across in my time here. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 04:36, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

If that's your concern, I will say I would not be interested in pursuing this if I thought account-only was a remotely possible outcome. It would almost surely be a greater fiasco if you want to think purely cynically about it. Remsense ‥ 论 04:38, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

@Yamla, you've checkuser blocked this IP's /64 before, is that still relevant? – 2804:F1...28:4E68 (::/32) (talk) 05:54, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

If you look at the comment that started this discussion, it was Yamla saying that they were done dealing with this persistent pest. Can't say I blame them. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 08:02, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

The IPv6 above is talking about the previous IPv6 commenter. I assume the answer is "not relevant", since the checkuser block on that range predates MAB. -- asilvering (talk) 08:26, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

It probably isn't directly relevant to MAB, but, assuming the range is static, it may be relevant as to whether their comments in this thread should be taken seriously, especially given that the IP was first blocked for a month as a "self-declared troll" before being re-blocked for six months as a CU block. Aoi (青い) (talk) 08:30, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

I don't think they should be taken seriously. See for example, Special:Diff/1169582215. This is a self-declared WP:ANI troll once again returning to WP:ANI. I suggest my previous 6 month block of the /64 wasn't long enough. I have no reason to believe this is MAB operating from this IP address but haven't looked. --Yamla (talk) 10:49, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

(Non-administrator comment) Well, banning him is just adding salt into the wounds, and not solving the current problem itself. I'm so late into this but I feel like my input is the only way that can stop and unban him (and you guys too from doing the ongoing work), and I think by looking through his contributions I can see patterns as to what triggered MAB from what "events" he must've seen, and it was clear that his behaviour was affected by what he'd seen afterwards. Had that "event" not happened he would've otherwise edited productively like a normal editor, but what we don't know yet is what that "event" was, and this is the sort of thing we should ask him about. I think the best way is to follow a similar process I did on Pbritti's Admin election and go through certain links to reverts and comments by other editors (maybe even positive ones too) that may have lead him to doing something unwanted afterwards, and ask him how he felt after he'd seen that "event", and what he'll do differently next time he sees it. Obviously, nobody likes their work being reverted, but a simple undo or something in the comment can be doubly dangerous depending on the person they're reverting or commenting against, as it can lead to undesirable behaviour leading to unwanted sanctions. We just need editors to be more aware of who they're reverting and try and go easy on these editors, and maybe follow a 0-Revert-Rule philosophy if it's an editor that known to cause issues after seeing their work undone; and I believe MAB's case is no exception. If anybody wants to unblock talk page access and try that idea, be my guest, but to also to be aware that certain words may cause him to get upset. A^♭m ^(Ring!) _(Notes) 09:48, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

@Abminor: This has already been attempted and failed by multiple users and administrators. MAB isn't interested in dialogue anymore, if ever he was. —Jéské Couriano v^_^v ^{threads critiques} 09:59, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

Your conception of this situation is deeply troubling. Anyone who makes a single death threat on here is rightfully gone, in all likelihood for good save the remote possibility of seriously compelling contrition on their part. That you are taking MAB's statements at face value and privileging whatever grievances are contained within as if they actually exist in proportion to the damage they're gleefully causing everyone around them is already either totally uninformed or otherwise naïve to the point of negligence. That you think anyone should ever have to be in a community with them again on top of that is delusional. Remsense ‥ 论 10:04, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

That's really sad. Maybe it's dependent on what was in the dialogue that cause him to cancel that out?

As for the death threat, he probably did that because he got instantly stressed by something, and didn't mean to in truth. But OK then, if nobody is brave enough to unblock him then expect to see more threads like these in the future, and more unwanted problems. I'm sorry if I caused anybody stress and made things worse, which wasn't my intention. A^♭m ^(Ring!) _(Notes) 10:27, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

My core point is simply that there is no plausible reading of their behavior as being in good faith or wanting to do anything but damage the project. That they would somehow revert to what we would consider within the bounds of acceptable conduct is inconceivable. Remsense ‥ 论 10:36, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

Unblocking someone because they have caused serious disruption up to the extent of issuing death threats would set an absolutely terrible precedent and would be a green light for other blocked users to cause the same disruption knowing it could get them what they want. We have occasionally unblocked people who have initially thrown a tantrum but later cooled down and shown some contrition but in this case the user is too far beyond the pale and has exhausted users' time and patience so much that there is no good will towards them. Valenciano (talk) 11:02, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

@Abminor, I assure you that this has been tried and was counterproductive. I don't think there's any way to logic this one, I'm afraid. -- asilvering (talk) 12:56, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

In their more recent messages they have stated outright that they believe they're entitled to threaten to kill people if they feel like it, and they have left death threats for anyone who has tried to talk to them (at all) for most of this year. So no, trying to understand their point of view is not a workable approach here. Ivanvector (^Talk/_Edits) 19:55, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

His "work" for the better part of a year has been spending multiple hours a day trying to spam literally every part of the site into submission while making lurid death threats towards everyone on the site who had the misfortune of interacting with him. Anybody who does this for a single day is worthless to have around as a contributor, anybody who does this for multiple months is actively dangerous to everyone else trying to contribute. jp×g🗯️ 19:29, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

this is an LTA. what we absolutely should not do is give MAB what they want. they have made countless death threats and spammed dozens and dozens of pages on-wiki, as well as discord, IRC, and UTRS, with their screeds for months upon months now. this is not someone we want on any of our projects, point blank. ... sawyer * he/they * talk 22:40, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

That sounds very frustrating, @Yamla, and I'm sorry we don't have better tools available to manage this.

I am trying to move T354599: Provide IP reputation variables in AbuseFilter forward. That would allow for AbuseFilter variables that could target specifically edits from VPNgate. We just recently got approval from Legal for implementing this work. There's another task, T360195: Analyze IP reputation data and how it maps to on-wiki editing and account creation activity, which would help us craft more relevant IP reputation variables in AbuseFilter, but we could probably get started with some easy ones (like the proxy name) as that analysis work won't get done until early 2025. If you have any input on what types of IP reputation variables would be useful in AbuseFilters for mitigating this type of abuse, please let me know here or in T354599: Provide IP reputation variables in AbuseFilter . KHarlan (WMF) (talk) 10:23, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

KHarlan, a sincere thanks for trying to tackle issues in this area. I'll give it some thought and comment there. --Yamla (talk) 10:39, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

It's good to hear that WMF is aware of this general problem and is working on solutions. It's unfortunate that it won't be implemented until next year but, hey, it's better than what we currently have so I wish them luck. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 05:42, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

In order to combat these recidivist socks, I raised the Wikipedia:Village pump (proposals)#CheckUser for all new users but was told it was impossible, so for those of us who write in areas where POV pushing recidivists are active it seems that no relief will ever come. Mztourist (talk) 05:39, 26 November 2024 (UTC)

• They've now taken to writing in German: diff I didn't translate the post when replying to them. 331dot (talk) 10:19, 28 November 2024 (UTC)

  I feel that the development of new security measures might be hastened and the new measures might be rolled out as early as January. Ahri Boy (talk) 12:44, 28 November 2024 (UTC)

User:Whatif222 unblock

User:Whatif222 is requesting a review of their undecided unblock request (stale by about a week). They came and visited us on #wikipedia-en-help and I asked some questions about copyright policy (the reason for the block) on their talk page, of which they answered 100% correctly and in their own words. I think they know why it's wrong (they demonstrated this to me), they're really sorry and genuinely a helpful editor beyond copyright issues (as seen by accepted AfC submissions, helpful edits in contributions log) and it's time for a second chance. They've also been so kind and respectful to me and everyone else on IRC. Thanks! MolecularPilot ^{🧪️✈️} 10:23, 24 November 2024 (UTC)

Just adding I'm happy to be a WP:MENTOR for them if that helps tip the scales in the "unblock" direction (I've offered to mentor them regardless on IRC) to help them adjust to the P&G's and work with them on draftified articles and be like a general point of reference for any copyright questions etc.

Also okay with helping them through a "show me 1 fix you would make to improve an article to be unblocked" (I've seen that on some people's talk pages, but forgot the template name) if that's needed.

Thanks again! :) MolecularPilot ^{🧪️✈️} 10:33, 24 November 2024 (UTC)

You're looking for {{2nd chance}}, but typically we only require that after blocking someone indef when they've never contributed constructively. This is to have them demonstrate to us that they are willing to put forth the effort to contribute constructively. Their talk page is a tangled mess of warnings about stuff, but I have to think in over a year of contributing that they've been constructive at least most of the time, or would've been blocked sooner. Therefore, I'm not sure this exercise is needed in their case, though obviously you are free to have them go through it if you think it would help them. --Chris | Crazycomputers (talk) 10:59, 24 November 2024 (UTC)

MolecularPilot, I haven't investigated this case but if you want to get the attention of more admins, it's best, in the future, to post unblock requests at WP:AN, not WP:ANI. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 17:13, 24 November 2024 (UTC)

I have decided to give Whatif222 one last chance and have unblocked them. I commend MolecularPilot for working with this editor while they were blocked, and offering to mentor. Cullen328 (talk) 19:45, 24 November 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for the tip, I'll keep that in mind for the future! :) MolecularPilot ^{🧪️✈️} 07:42, 25 November 2024 (UTC)

@MolecularPilot, thanks for stepping in to help this editor out. I'm not totally convinced they won't use LLMs to edit, so if you notice that going on it would be another huge help if you can encourage them away from that. -- asilvering (talk) 04:05, 25 November 2024 (UTC)

Definitely! It doesn't look live they've seen that they are unblocked yet but I'll keep an eye on their controls and guide them through returning to editing, as I promised ! :) MolecularPilot ^{🧪️✈️} 07:56, 25 November 2024 (UTC)

They were unblocked, and have been reblocked. -- asilvering (talk) 19:26, 26 November 2024 (UTC)

When I left my comment, they were unblocked... but unfortunately I had a sudden event in RL so I wasn't watching their contribs today and now they're blocked again... I haven't had time to review to substance of the block but it doesn't seem like they'd really be another way to phrase the alleged "copyvio". Sadly, they're "leaving this platform forever" now. :( MolecularPilot ^{🧪️✈️} 05:09, 27 November 2024 (UTC)

Tres Cañon

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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... has made over 70 edits, all of which have been adding useless spaces. No clue what they're doing but it's not very helpful. C F A 16:43, 24 November 2024 (UTC)

Tres Cañon (talk · contribs) has made around 70 edits which just add white space to articles. All have been reverted, but he's still active after a final warning for editing tests. Dawnseeker2000 16:44, 24 November 2024 (UTC)

Blocked - they are welcome to explain their edits and we can consider an unblock, but this prevents ongoing disruption for now. GiantSnowman 16:48, 24 November 2024 (UTC)

This is a sock of Jocer Blandino and should be globally locked.--Bbb23 (talk) 16:56, 24 November 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Brusquedandelion's disruptive behaviour at the recent Talk:Australia RfC

Brusquedandelion is a generally constructive editor with a good understanding of Wikipedia's policies and code of conduct, but they show a lack of restraint when it comes to (perceived or actual) ideological differences and are prone to lashing out against other editors. Brusquedandelion has previously been brought to AN/I for exactly that reason and continued to do so briefly on their talk page after the AN/I notice. They have recently engaged in similar conduct at the recent Talk:Australia RfC, and that behaviour is my reason for creating this.

The RfC was started by OntologicalTree, a confirmed sockpuppet of KlayCax. OT was blocked one week ago from today, so the RfC was able to run its course. Brusquedandelion was quite disruptive and less than civil throughout the RfC, bludgeoning the process and throwing personal attacks at every reply to the RfC that supported or discussed anything directly contrary to OT's proposed option (myself included).

Talk:Australia diffs:
"Please tell us what your actual objection is rather than using word count as a shield."
"It would be more honest if you just tell us what your actual objection is... It helps no one to hide your actual beliefs like this."
"The best possible faith interpretation of multiple people not even bothering to mention the g-word in their votes is that they are simply unable to grasp basic reading comprehension."
"Your claim that this in an encyclopaedic article, not a political tract reveals your true intentions, for your edit is entirely political in nature; you just believe your own politics are neutral, much as fish doubt the existence of water."
"Fortunately, not one of the proposed options states that colonialism constituted terrorism, ethnocide, and genocide. Please remember that on Wikipedia, WP:COMPETENCY IN reading comprehension is strictly required."
"If you haven't actually done the survey you suggest others do, why do you feel so confident voting on a matter you are have professes your own ignorance own? Remember, WP:COMPETENCE IS REQUIRED."
"And may I remind you, one of the handwringers have straight up admitted to having a conflict of interest on this subject, due to nationalist sentiments and grievance politics. Odd that it is me you are dressing down, and not them, when their comments are against the spirit of letter of at least half a dozen Wikipedia policies."
"I have generally not reiterated my own viewpoints in different places, only made different viewpoints in multiple places. The fact that multiple people tried to bludgeon this discourse by handwringing about word count rather than getting to the crux of the issue merits being pointed out."

This report is already getting quite long, so I'll leave it at this for now. Sirocco745 (talk) 01:07, 26 November 2024 (UTC)

I agree that @Brusquedandelion has engaged in battleground behavior and engaged in personal attacks. Because they are otherwise a constructive editor, I propose a three-month topic ban from all edits related to colonialism and genocide, broadly construed. voorts (talk/contributions) 02:29, 26 November 2024 (UTC)

I support this proposal. While Brusquedandelion is a capable, competent, and generally constructive editor, they have demonstrated their inability to remain civil while discussing topics of colonialism and genocide, and I believe their efforts would be best focused outside of these topics for a while. Having strong feelings on a topic is not necessarily bad in of itself, but it's how those feelings manifest themselves through the person's actions that can cause problems. Sirocco745 (talk) 02:37, 26 November 2024 (UTC)

In the thread, you stated that you are sick of this same blame-centric rhetoric that I have to listen to every week being pushed at every opportunity. It's pretty clear from this comment that you are unable to maintain a position of objectivity on topics relating to "colonialism and genocide." Or perhaps only ones relating to Australia, I don't know. Brusquedandelion (talk) 09:34, 26 November 2024 (UTC)

If a comment like Option 1 has a clear agenda to push, and I am sick of this same blame-centric rhetoric that I have to listen to every week being pushed at every opportunity is not indicative of a battleground mentality by someone who is quite possibly WP:NOTHERE, what is? This comment was made by @Sirocco745 who filed this report. They are clearly motivated by some sort of grievance politics (of a racial nature) by their own admission. They followed this up by admitting that I could, if I wanted, call me out on a WP:COI if you really wanted to, and you may be justified in doing so. Their words!

You might feel my response was heavy-handed. Ok. But note that per the usual rules and conventions of an ANI post, a reporter's own conduct is also subject to scrutiny. Did you not read the thread, or did you not think this was worthy of taking into account? Brusquedandelion (talk) 09:41, 26 November 2024 (UTC)

It looks to me that all of their edits happening on Talk:Australia by Brusquedandelion occurred on Nov. 9th and haven't continued since. Have there been any personal attacks since that date or that have spilled over to other articles or talk pages? Of course, personal attacks are not acceptable but before imposing a wide-ranging topic ban, I'd like to see if this is an isolated incident on this one day in this one discussion on this one talk page or are occurring more broadly. I also would like to hear from Brusquedandelion on this matter for their point of view. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 02:54, 26 November 2024 (UTC)

No, nothing since then. They made four more replies on the RfC after being politely but firmly asked to reign it in by @Moxy and @Aemilius Adolphin at this reply here. The discourse hasn't bled out of the RfC/talk page, and they've been relatively quiet for the past two weeks.

Only thing I can think of that could count would be Brusque replying to my original attempt at settling this without needing to bring it to a noticeboard. They previously said I sounded like I was "channeling the spirit of Cecil Rhodes" on the RfC, and when I mentioned this in my original notification, their only response was to link Cecil Rhodes's article. Reply found here. Passive-aggressive? Maybe. Worth counting as further discourse outside of the RfC? Not really. Sirocco745 (talk) 03:19, 26 November 2024 (UTC)

Thinking a stern warning and explanation of the community norms..... unless there's some sort of pattern of behavior here? It's a contentious topic.... that many people feel has a tone of racism involved. Just need to explain they need to tone it down. Moxy🍁 03:32, 26 November 2024 (UTC)

I would also like to raise an issue of possible canvassing. I was going to leave a message on @Brusquedandelion's talk page about their behaviour when the ruckus started when I found this odd message. It looks like someone was alerting them to the discussion on the Australia talk page and feeding them with talking points.https://wiki.riteme.site/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Brusquedandelion&diff=prev&oldid=1255261107 Aemilius Adolphin (talk) 04:49, 26 November 2024 (UTC)

That was also KlayCax. CMD (talk) 05:46, 26 November 2024 (UTC)

It looks like the sockpuppet User:DerApfelZeit went around to a lot of articles in contentious areas and then to user talk pages, trying to stir things up. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 06:23, 26 November 2024 (UTC)

To be clear, I did not asked to be canvassed. I don't know this person, and given they're banned already I am unsure what the relevance is here. Brusquedandelion (talk) 09:30, 26 November 2024 (UTC)

The relevance, Brusquedandelion, was the consideration that maybe their comments provoked your response on the article talk page. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 19:16, 26 November 2024 (UTC)

OP has posted a bunch of comments above, but the actual reason they are reporting me is because of my comment comparing their views to those of Cecil Rhodes. They didn't feel the need to file this report until they posted on my page, including a comment about how they don't know who Rhodes was. I replied only with a link to his Wikipedia page. In a sense, this is probably their strongest case against me, so I am not sure why they didn't mention it in the original post. Perhaps it has to do with the reason I invoked this comparison: OP made a vile series of remarks about aboriginal Australians in which they referred to them and their culture as uncivilized, that one can't trust a treaty signed with non-English speaking indigenous peoples, and that hunter gatherer peoples are not worthy of political or moral consideration. These are all sentiments Cecil Rhodes would have affirmed. Perhaps this qualifies as a personal attack by the letter of the law here at Wikipedia, but talking about Aboriginal Australians this way is against upwards of half a dozen Wikipedia policies. OP will claim, as they did at my page, that I am casting aspersions, but they have actually explicitly admitted they are motivated by racial grievance politics; more on this point later. First, OP's comment that resulted in the comparison, for the record:

the problem is that prior to settlement, the Indigenous peoples of Australia had zero form of officially Th government or judicial system amongst themselves because of the nomadic and kinship-centric nature of their tribes. Additionally, the Indigenous peoples didn't speak English and operated on a significantly different culture to the rest of the civilised world at the time. No centralized governing body means the British had no legal entity to formalize an agreement with, and the cultural differences and physical distance between the various groups and territories of Indigenous peoples meant that even if the British were to create a blanket legal structure for them, they had no guarantee that the terms of such would be satisfactory or even followed by the various groups.

Anyone familiar with the official justifications for colonial policies, past and present, will hear their echo here. The fairly explicit claim that the aboriginals are uncivilized is the most egregious remark here, but the entire comment is rooted in a view of indigenous peoples that belongs to 19th century British imperialists, not on Wikipedia. These ideas about native peoples (in Australia and elsewhere) have been summarily refuted in the scholarly literature on this subject, but regrettably despite their repugnance they persist in popular culture in many nations. If any admin feels I need to back up this claim with sources, I will oblige, as fundamentally grim as it is that such views even need to be debunked.

Some further comments from OP:

The entire paragraph is thick with the negative connotations so common in degradation of foreign colonization and this era of historical hindsight apologetics. Easily fails WP:NPOV and WP:WEIGHT.

Apparently, it is NPOV to take a dim view of colonization. Does OP have a favorable view of colonialism, in particular in the Australian context? A question left for the reader.

Finally, OP is manifestly, by their own admission in the thread, motivated by a politics of racial grievance. First, they tell us that As a fourth generation Australian, I am personally sick of the rhetoric that OntologicalTree is trying to have accepted. Make no mistake, this issue is personal, and OP has found their WP:BATTLEGROUND. Then they inform us:

Option 1 has a clear agenda to push, and I am sick of this same blame-centric rhetoric that I have to listen to every week being pushed at every opportunity. Yeah, you could call me out on a WP:COI if you really wanted to, and you may be justified in doing so.

These comments speak for themselves, since OP is themself admitting their prejudices. Even if OP were right ("Australian whites and their colonization of the country have been unjustly vilified" etc. etc.), this just isn't the website for it; see inter alia WP:RGW and WP:NOTAFORUM.

Returning to what OP has quoted above, the vast majority of my alleged bludgeoning consists of reminding people what the substantive issue at stake is: whether to classify these events as genocide. The RFC was somewhat poorly worded, unfortunately, but there's not much to do about that now. The effect was that a number of replies did not explicitly admit a stance on the core issue, but nevertheless voted against the use of the "genocide" label.

I would prefer a straightforward discussion of the merits, or lack thereof, of the use of this word. It would have made the RFC much more productive. A number of people essentially dodged the core issue on their vote altogether, and I thought this merited being pointed out. I admit I was strident, but I don't think any of my comments about this issue were especially uncivil. I also removed myself from the discussion as soon as people said I was commenting too much. I didn't feel need the need to continue this on anyone's talk page nor over here at ANI.

OP did, however, likely expecting an apology when they posted to my talk page, and reporting me when none was forthcoming. So:

I apologize for my stridency to the community at large. I will make an effort to regulate my tone in future discussions. I do not feel this thread is representative of my general conduct here, and I will certainly make an effort to not let it be the standard I set for my comments in future discussions. I was frustrated by an apparent refusal by certain folks to actually discuss the core issue, but there are more skillful ways I could have gone about this. And I was especially frustrated by certain comments, in particular those of OP, that affirm colonial stereotypes and ideologies.

I do not feel an apology is owed to OP until such time as they own up to the racism of their remarks. With regards to possible sanctions, I don't see how you can argue my criticizing OP's racism, even if I had been ten thousand times ruder about it, would be less civil or worse for Wikipedia's project as a whole than OP's remarks about aboriginal Australians, motivated as they are by racial grievance politics, per their own confession. Said confession also seems like a much stronger argument for a topic ban in particular, compared to anything I have said, since they have admitted an inability to retain neutrality in such discussions, as well as a particularly noxious reason for that inability—though I am only bringing this up since OP themself has asked for this sanction against me. Personally I only hope that OP realizes why such comments are unacceptable, that no one is witch-hunting him or his people, and that such ideologies have no place here anyways. It seems they are otherwise a constructive editor, and if they are able to make a good faith acknowledgement of this lapse, I wouldn't see any need for sanctions against them personally. Of course, all of this is up to the admins. Brusquedandelion (talk) 10:49, 26 November 2024 (UTC)

@Brusquedandelion: you've accused someone of racism. Please provide diffs or quickly withdraw your claim, or expect to be blocked for a serious personal attack. Nil Einne (talk) 15:20, 26 November 2024 (UTC)

Did you not read my comment? It has verbatim quotes that can be found in the linked discussion (Talk:Australia); as far as I can tell, nothing has been edited or archived. Are you an admin and if so is this a formal request for a diff specifically? Because if not please do not go around threatening people with blocks for not providing information they already provided. I am really quite busy today, but if an administrator is formally making this request, I will oblige. Brusquedandelion (talk) 15:36, 26 November 2024 (UTC)

You always need to provide diffs when you make such allegations, whether asked to or not. voorts (talk/contributions) 16:15, 26 November 2024 (UTC)

This is why diffs are important, as they provide context. The first two quotes come from Diff 1, and the last quote comes from Diff 2. I'm no expert, but statements like I certainly don't approve of what happened back then, and I will openly admit that I am not proud of the racism that Australia was built on. I agree that they committed a large number of atrocities and that there is much work to be done to repair the damage done. (Diff 2) do not sound to me like racism. In context, I get the impression of trying to preserve historical context, not proving the OP's racism alleged by BD above.

Diff 1 provides an explaination for why the British did not negotiate with the natives and, even there, their words very much acknowledged that the actions were unjust. (See The British did falsely claim terra nullius... in Diff 1). I also was unable to find any mention of the statement BD put in quotes as "Australian whites and their colonization of the country have been unjustly vilified" on the talk page; I presume these were scare quotes.

If there is missing context or background, BD would be well-advised to provide it. Most of us are laypersons and will likely miss more subtle types of racism, if that is what is alleged. EducatedRedneck (talk) 17:18, 26 November 2024 (UTC)

I may have come off as confrontational with my comments in the RfC, and I apologize for that. I have always accepted that Wikipedia is not the place to air personal or political grievances and have done my best to keep to that policy, but I slipped when replying to the RfC. My motto is "don't let your motive be your message", but I forgot to keep my personal feelings out of the discussion this time.

First up though, the reason why some of my comments were rooted in a view of indigenous peoples that belongs to 19th century British imperialists is because I was presenting the views of 19th century British imperialists. These views are horribly outdated and illogical based in emotional fallacy, but because I was (probably over)explaining the racist reasonings the British justified their actions with, many of my comments in the RfC could be used to support BD's claim of racism when taken out of context.

In hindsight, "The entire paragraph is thick with the negative connotations so common in degradation of foreign colonization and this era of historical hindsight apologetics. Easily fails WP:NPOV and WP:WEIGHT" wasn't the best way to word my disproval of Option 1. In relation to the RfC, Option 1's rhetoric is that the wounds are still fresh. The problem is that while the damage is still felt, the wounds themselves aren't really fresh at all; Option 1 covers almost 200 years worth of events in a single paragraph and insinuates that they all happened at/around the same time. This is why I pushed against Option 1 and explained British actions and motives.

@Brusquedandelion, I would also like to deny your claim that I started this AN/I thread because of your actions against me specifically. I assume that you've read the opening sentences of WP:ASPERSIONS, since I included it in my initial attempt at reaching out.

"On Wikipedia, casting aspersions is a situation where an editor accuses another editor or a group of editors of misbehavior without evidence, especially when the accusations are repeated or particularly severe. Because a persistent pattern of false or unsupported allegations can be highly damaging to a collaborative editing environment, such accusations will be collectively considered a personal attack."

The large number of diffs that show you being uncivil towards multiple editors in the RfC were always going to be the reason this came to AN/I, not your comments against me. Sirocco745 (talk) 23:02, 26 November 2024 (UTC)

Theres a lot of battleground behaviour here, which compounded with the personal attacks made in this thread (that they apparantly stand by) leads me to support the proposal above by Voorts. Captain Jack Sparrow (talk) 09:00, 27 November 2024 (UTC)

"This project page may meet Wikipedia's criteria for speedy deletion as a page where the author of the only substantial content has requested deletion or blanked the page in good faith. The following explanation was offered: Accidentally created a duplicate AfD.. See CSD G7." over at Wikipedia:XfD today and other pages

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

---

Hi all,

This should most probably be over at WP:AN, but WP:AN/I is more visible, and this could probably be quickly fixed by any editor, as it appears to be some sort of Wikipedia:Transclusion thingy

Affected pages as of 9:50 AM UTC appear to include:

• Wikipedia:XfD_today#Iddaru_(2024)
• User:Abishe/AFD#Iddaru_(2024)
• Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Log/2024_November_26#Iddaru_(2024)

As far as I can see, this is related to a post somewhere by Sudheerbs, who I'll notify with me next edit.

Please feel free to rename this thread "Yet more gross incompetence by Shirt58 - how is this guy even an Admin?"

Shirt58 (talk) 🦘 10:04, 26 November 2024 (UTC)

Fixed, I think. ObserveOwl (talk) 10:19, 26 November 2024 (UTC)

@ObserveOwl, CycloneYoris, and Sudheerbs: Thank you for your responses! Looks like this issue is pretty much resolved. Shirt58 (talk) 🦘 11:46, 26 November 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

United States Man's WP:BOLD edits and redirects

So this has been happening for a while now, with a long track record of reverted bold edits which peaked today. United States Man (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) has constantly been doing WP:BOLD things and reverting others when challenged:
1. November 2023: Was blocked for edit warring.
2. May 2024: Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/1997 Prairie Dell-Jarrell tornado: User said in the nomination The author also recently started 2024 Sulphur tornado, which was overwhelming merged; violation of WP:READFIRST. Reason for nomination was “article is a CFORK”, and the article ended up being kept. Funny enough, this user would literally say "You should focus on the content and not the editor" to someone else just twelve days later when someone pointed out their controversial moves.
3. May 2024: Edit warring on December 2021 Midwest derecho and tornado outbreak; the article had to end up being protected as a result.
4. October 2024: Bold redirected 2011 Lake Martin tornado without consensus before merging it without attribution or consensus.
5. Today: Redirected a 20,000-byte article with the edsum "revert CFORK", and when I challenged this they called it "disruptive edit warring". See 2011 Cullman-Arab tornado.
6. Today: Again redirected a 20,000-byte article with the edsum "revert CFORK", and when I challenged this they called it "disruptive edit warring". See 2011 Central Alabama tornado.
7.Today: Was reverted after boldly removing material, where they then proceeded to revert the challenge.
This behavior clearly won't be stopping soon, so bringing it here. Also see their recent edit summaries, I’m now on mobile so I can’t fetch the diffs. E_F⁵ 20:10, 26 November 2024 (UTC)

(edit conflict) As far as I can tell, United States Man's reverts look far more like "disruptive edit warring" than the OP's challenges to find consensus, which strike me as reasonable. Noting for the record that I reviewed and approved a DYK nomination for one of the articles (Template:Did you know nominations/2011 Cullman–Arab tornado, which is currently in a prep area). Dylan620 (he/him • talk • edits) 20:19, 26 November 2024 (UTC)

• Editing behavior: Myself and United States Man have "butt heads" several times over the last few years, even with both of us earning edit warring blocks during our edit wars in the past. However, this is a very much editing behavior that is very clearly not good. United States Man has a habit of taking a Wikibreak and upon returning from the Wikibreak, immediately reverts edits without any consensus or discussions. Here is a list of these specific instances:

1. Wikibreak October 19, 2024 to November 26, 2024 – First six edits on November 26 were all edit warring/reversions: [20][21][22][23][24][25]
2. Wikibreak September 19, 2024 to October 10, 2024 – First edit was to start an AFD.
3. May 17, 2024 to May 23, 2024 – Commented in an ongoing discussion "Oppose" to something being included in an article and then proceeded to remove it 1 minute later. This day also included several reverts from page moves to edit warring reverts. The edit warring reverts were discussed (mid-edit warring) on the talk page.
4. May 8, 2024 to May 15, 2024 – Several reversions with no talk page discussions, including this edit entirely deleting a 45,000 byte article with "redirect recently created content fork" with no discussion and deleting a 23,000 byte article, with no discussion, only a few minutes earlier.
5. February 29, 2024 to March 11, 2024 – Came back to editing by immediately reverting. March 11 included 3 article-content reversions, with no article talk page discussions occurring, along with the merge of an 11,000 byte article.
6. February 25, 2024 to February 28, 2024 – First edit back on Feb 28 was a reversion.
7. December 19, 2023 to February 10, 2024 – First edit back was an editing-reversion (not revert button click), with the editing summary of "the first tornado was obviously the EF1…". The day included several button reverts including [26][27] before any talk page discussion edits occurred.
8. November 3, 2023 to November 21/22, 2023 – Came back to editing with several reversions and within about 36 hours of coming back to editing, got into an edit war with myself, which earned both of us edit warring blocks over 2002 Van Wert–Roselms tornado.

I can continue going down the list, but this is a clear behavior going back at a minimum of a year. United States Man reverts before talk page discussions, and it seems to be right as they come back from a break from editing. As stated, I have a history with United States Man, but it honestly is annoying and frustrating. Going back a year, articles and content has been created and when United States Man returns to editing, without any discussion or consensus occurring, they proceed to try to single handedly revert/remove it all, and then, like today, proceeds to edit war over it without going to discussions. This is not constructive behavior and should not be the behavior of editors on Wikipedia. The Weather Event Writer (Talk Page) 20:51, 26 November 2024 (UTC)

It also appears that they (somehow) have rollback permissions, despite being blocked for edit warring and being consistently reverted for these behaviors. E_F⁵ 00:24, 27 November 2024 (UTC)

As much as I hate dogpiling, I did kind of promise myself that I would bring this up if USM got taken to ANI over a matter like this. I will preface by saying that I really do appreciate a lot of the work he's put in over the years, and I've even agreed with him in a number of content disputes. But I think most editors who have put in a lot of time on tornado articles have butted heads with him at some point. He has had a sort of "my way or the highway" attitude for quite some time. See this bit of page history for an edit war from 2013. Maybe it was just me returning to regular editing at the time, but I seem to have noticed a number of notable clashes with him starting around 2021. He has also expressed an attitude that his edits don't count as edit warring (as in this instance). Some commentary I've seen from him suggests and attitude that his experience exempts him from policy, as in this discussion. As much as I am grateful for the constructive edits he's made, there are some longstanding issues with his behavior in content disputes that should be addressed. TornadoLGS (talk) 02:18, 27 November 2024 (UTC)

I also highly appreciate their work, but comments like I don't allow people to preach to me on "content disputes" when I tirelessly edit week in and week out and have never blatantly added false information and You should know from my years of content editing that I don't add and leave things unsourced for long at Talk:List of United States tornadoes from January to March 2022 are highly inappropriate, no matter the context. E_F⁵ 02:25, 27 November 2024 (UTC)

( Peanut gallery comment) Speaking of tornado list articles, might yall tornado editors maybe agree on a way to do your citations a bit more concisely? At List of United States tornadoes from January to March 2022, National Centers for Environmental Information produces 347 matches, and National Weather Service 266 matches, across 330 citations. Do we really need the full, unlinked acronym expansions (and retrieval dates) in every case for all of these database records? And not, for example, the database record id, or date more specific than year (universally implied by the article scope)? The whole References section is visually nightmarish, and ProseSize reports 59kb in references; 421kb if html is included.

And I know this has been discussed elsewhere before, but is genuinely encyclopaedically relevant to include trivia like A chicken house sustained roof damage? I suppose at this juncture I'm probably tilting at rapidly circulating windmills. Folly Mox (talk) 15:33, 28 November 2024 (UTC)

@Folly Mox: If A chicken house sustained roof damage is the only damage indicator that the tornado left behind, then yes, it is relevant. I'll try to condense this, since this isn't what the thread it about but albeit is a good findinng:

Tornadoes usually produce DIs, or Damage Indicators. These can range from corn pulled out of fields to houses being swept away and pavement being ripped off of roads (which is rarely seen). Any information about a tornado's DP, or damage path, is better than none. Unfortunately, government agencies like to adopt horrendously-long names, so many references look like that. I try to abbreviate them, but others don't. A list of these DIs can be found here (it's actually really interesting how they rate tornadoes, I'm probably just a nerd though. :) E_F⁵ 16:02, 28 November 2024 (UTC)

If A chicken house sustained roof damage is the only damage indicator that the tornado left behind, then yes, it is relevant. – Yes it's relevant, assuming you decide to include this trivial tornado-ette in the list in the first place. That's the question. What purpose is served by listing trivial, nonnotable, momentary twisters that damaged a chicken coop and uprooted someone's prize azaleas -- if they did anything at all? Answer: no purpose at all. It's busywork for storm fans -- busywork which leads to conflicts which historically have soaked up a lot of admin time to referee them.

These lists should restrict themselves to events which, at a bare minimum, were reported in the local news i.e. not A storm chaser documented a [60-second] tornado on video. No known damage occurred . NWS collects every bit of data -- every report, no matter how trivial -- for statistical and scientific purposes, but our readers aren't served by our uncritically vomiting all of it out here at Wikipedia. It should stop. EEng 17:27, 29 November 2024 (UTC)

(ec) No, that isn't relevant information to have in an encyclopedia at all. In these lists, most tornadoes should be summarized as a group (e.g. simply mentioning the number of EF0s and EF1s), not described with "This weak tornado had an intermittent path and caused no known damage." and "This brief tornado was caught on video. No damage was found." and so on. Just try to imagine that we had a list of "car accidents in the US in March 2022", where not only the major accidents with deaths and so on were noted, but every single accident with minor damage as long as some official police bulletin notes it. Why would every single minor tornado in the history of the US need to be noted in detail on enwiki? "A tornado was caught on video. An NWS damage survey found a leaning power pole.", really? "A brief tornado captured by doorbell security video caused sporadic minor damage."? This needs severe pruning. We have Tornado outbreak of March 31 – April 1, 2023, fine, but do we really need a detailed list of all 146 tornadoes in that outbreak, List of tornadoes in the tornado outbreak of March 31 – April 1, 2023? Fram (talk) 17:29, 29 November 2024 (UTC)

Okay, fine, I’ll start a discussion on the WPW talk page. Can we please stay on topic and address the issues that I’ve brought up, though? Discussing tornadoes on ANI doesn’t seem very… productive. I don’t mean to be rude. :) E_F⁵ 17:38, 29 November 2024 (UTC)

You're right, it's just that there have been so many discussions already about issues related to either tornadoes or tropical storms, comparable to other more or less problematic projects like wrestling or (in the past) roads. When uninvolved or unaware readers come across the articles involved in this report, they are bound to shake their heads in disbelief. Fram (talk) 17:50, 29 November 2024 (UTC)

@Folly Mox: Unfortunately NCEI has a rather clunky way of dealing with records where each county segment of a tornado's path gets its own page (or each tornado if it doesn't cross county lines). Local NWS offices do sometimes have aggregate pages for tornado outbreaks, but those are considered preliminary while NCEI is the "finalized" data. TornadoLGS (talk) 21:28, 28 November 2024 (UTC)

Back on topic, but I will also note that USM has had a “grudge” against me, starting in March of this year. I won’t try to drag inactive users into this, but back when I was first creating articles, USM and another user (TornadoInformation12) would sort of stalk whatever I did and try to revert it. Again, I’m on mobile, so I can’t fetch the diff, but things like the Jarrell AfD, Cullman redirect, Pilger redirect, Lake Martin redirect, recent edit warring involving me and a message from TI12 on his talk page are pretty good proof of this claim. TI12 has been inactive for over a month, and likely won’t respond here. Also see my talk page archives from April and May, which contain messages from him, and are relatively tame. The below comment, sent by TI12 at Talk:Tornado outbreak and derecho of April 1-3, 2024/Archive 1 pretty much sums what I just said up:

• Yeah, so the weird tense is because some kid made this article BEFORE the event even happened, based entirely on SPC outlooks and hype. He apparently had no idea that this isn't allowed. Gave him a real serious talking to and I can assure you he won't try anything like that again. The derecho element and sheer number of this event makes it notable though, even if underperformed in terms of intense, long-tracked tornadoes.

The “kid” is directly referring to me; I had made the article. This is an issue that has been happening with several editors in the WPW community, so I’ll just bring up the other editor for consistency’s sake. Both editors have shown unacceptable levels of hostility towards new editors, with TI12 and USM having this hostile behavior that has gone unaddressed for far too long. When the next tornado season rolls around, I’m sure we’ll continue to see this hostility thrusted at new editors if it’s not addressed. E_F⁵ 23:44, 28 November 2024 (UTC)

Repeatedly infantilizing fellow editors is uncivil, you should not have been subjected to that. I apologize on TornadoInformation12's behalf (it is unclear if they will ever be active again to apologize for themselves). Horse Eye's Back (talk) 23:30, 29 November 2024 (UTC)

More instances of incivility from TI12

So now that I have a PC again (thanksgiving, am I right?), I will make a list of incivility incidents involving the latter user, TI12:

• April 2024: I desperately need backup. Look what’s happening with the April 2 article. A bunch of kids are running this page into the ground with unsourced Twitter and YouTube junk and are making outbreak articles before events have event starter. The quality of work and content is PLUNGING! PLEASE help me out and back me up. I’ve never seen it this bad. by TI12 at this talk page. Again, the "kid" is directly referring to me and it is never appropriate to talk behind people's backs, especially when they're new.

• April 2024: For April 2nd. Why?? You know better, and know that other users have established that we have to wait until significant, damaging tornadoes, usually EF3 or higher or causing death have been confirmed. You cannot let the rules slide based on SPC hype and model output, and it’s not debatable. Today underperformed and now I have to mark an article for speedy deletion. We haven’t even had a confirmed EF2. Please, do not do this again and wait until the outbreak over to asses for article eligibility. You know better. by TI12 at this user's talk page, who had 2,000 edits at the time. While unrelated to me, this is a prime example of incivility targeting newer users who may not understand our guidelines, and is unnecessarily harsh.

• April 2024: This needs to be deleted asap. Someone has once again completely jumped the gun and broke the rules we established years ago by making an article before we even had a significant event underway. And guess what?? Today underperformed. No devastating damage, no long trackers, no deaths, no tornado emergencies, but someone had to “let it slide” because you all got excited over a moderate risk and strong wording, again. We have been over this SO MANY TIMES and I am beyond exasperated. How many times have we said to not make an article until it is abundantly clear we’ve had a major event??? We jump the gun with articles year after year and it’s like you guys never learn. You CANNOT publish article unless numerous strong tornadoes or multiple deaths have been confirmed. We have neither here, and it’s not up for debate. Mark this for deletion immediately. Btw, the reason nobody was helping you with this article is because one wasn’t needed at all. You pushed it into existence with zero consensus or collaboration with other users. by TI12 at this talk page archive. Highly uncivil, I had less than 1,000 edits at the time, and funny enough, the article he's referring to is now a GA. The "We jump the gun with articles year after year and it’s like you guys never learn" stands out to me.

• April 2024: We didn’t get a significant outbreak today, and you broke the rules by steamrolling this pointless article into existence. You COMPLETELY jumped the gun and ignored the rules established by editors much more experienced than you. You CANNOT just start an article based on hype, well before we have confirmed EF3+ tornadoes, major damage, or deaths. We have NONE of those things, and you made one anyway, ignoring all the guidelines in the process. You also based it all on early, usually inaccurate information prior to the event even being over. Someone warned you and you ignored them. I am going to mark this for deletion. by TI12 at this talk page archive, again directed at me.

• May 2024: You can't can't publish this without DAT damage points, and that isn't up for debate. I'm not harrasing you, I am holding you accountable, and you are getting upset over it. I will continue to revert whatever doesn't meet wiki quality standards. Not backing down this time. by TI12 at this talk page. Extremely hostile behavior, I tried to find common ground and they basically just yelled at me instead of having a normal conversation.

• May 2024: This has to do with sourcing and quality, not notability. Don't twist the narrative. Also, again I am not harassing you, I am holding you accountable for work that does not meet quality standards. You just think you are getting harassed because you are getting upset at the situation. at the same talk page archive; when I brung up their harshness they just played it off, which someone here should never do, period.

• May 2024: I am trying to teach a young new editor how to put out quality articles, and he keeps putting out stuff like this. I know we haven't always gotten along UnitedStatesMan, but I know you have zero tolerance for nonsense and care about sourced, quality work. I have started a talk page about Quality Control on the Tornadoes of 2024 page. I need support from experienced users so I'm not just arguing back and forth with this guy. Can you please give some input to the discussion? I am exhausted from dealing with this and your input in the discussion would be greatly appreciated.. at USM's talk page. Not only is this canvassing, it's also a show of how these users are connected and hence why I'm bringing both up.

• May 2024: No such option exists. If you want me to not revert your work, then source it properly and make sure it is of good quality. I went through the same thing you are going through when I joined here in 2010. I had no idea what i was doing, and viewed every correction as harassment. I now know it wasn't. You don't have to like me, and you are allowed to be frustrated, but you cannot stop other users from reverting info that doesn't meet standards for sourcing and quality. I DO know how you feel though, because I have been in your shoes. by TI12 at this diff, was immediately reverted by the user and probably violates our hounding policy.

• May 2024: And the most damning comment of all: Sorry, but there's nothing you can do about it. I don't "need" to do anything, and can discuss what I want, with whom I want as along there is an objective to it. Want me to stop? Improve, learn, and do better work. Until that happens, I will do what I need to do to keep things on track and up to par. You are going to have to either improve your work, or deal with me having these conversations and held accountable on a regular basis. by TI12 at this user's talk page. This is gross incivility that I don't want to see come next year, and is completely unacceptable. While I get that I am half the reason these comments were said, they shouldn't have been typed up in the first place. Mind you that I was a new editor at the time of this incident, and was immediately hounded by this user. All of these are from two months alone, and I haven't even looked further than that. E_F⁵ 20:31, 29 November 2024 (UTC)

These examples are unsavory, and I'm sorry you had to go through that sort of treatment, but... TI12 has made only one edit since May, and that one edit was in August. I would suggest revisiting if this behavior recurs when/if TI12 returns, but as of now, I don't think there's much that can be done :/ Dylan620 in public/on mobile (he/him • talk) 23:24, 29 November 2024 (UTC)

I’m aware, the main reason I brought this up was because the two users are connected, and this user expressed intent to return to the project in the future. E_F⁵ 00:31, 30 November 2024 (UTC)

User:Hanson Wu continuation

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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• Hanson Wu (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

The previous ANI report was closed with no action, but the user continues the same behavior. Insistence on changing "politician" to "statesman" coupled with repeatedly trying to hammer in the changes, without bringing disputed edits to the talk page discussion, even after directly being told in a previous edit summary to do so (along with notices in talk page that have not been answered). User has not been in any talk pages or the previous ANI. 172.56.232.212 (talk) 22:44, 26 November 2024 (UTC)

Hey, IP, you would do well to provide diffs to edits where the editor is doing this. And, while you're at it, consider creating an account for steady communication's sake. BarntToust 01:39, 27 November 2024 (UTC)

I'm guessing it's Special:diff/1259102555 and Special:diff/1259640309. I guess Hanson Wu is purposefully pretending the threads doesn't exist given they edited the same page after the IP's call to communicate with no response. ABG (Talk/Report any mistakes here) 02:00, 27 November 2024 (UTC)

According to this journal article published by Brill, the word "statesman" carries connotations of superior moral integrity, exceptional leadership qualities and expertise in the science of government. I agree with that assessment and, unless exceptionally well referenced, it should not be used in Wikipedia's voice because it is a violation of the Neutral point of view. Hanson Wu should agree to stop changing from "politician" to "statesman". If not, some sort of sanction should be implemented, such as a block from mainspace. The editor would then be free to make their case on article talk pages. Cullen328 (talk) 02:29, 27 November 2024 (UTC)

• Regardless of the why, this is a clear-cut case of a refusal to communicate - both WP:LISTENTOUS and WP:SLOWEW specifically. Given that, after their first three edits which were followed by a nearly three-*year* hiatus, they have done all but nothing but this, this is a clear case of WP:IDONTHEARYOU and, accordingly, I have blocked for a month, which will hopefully allow time for them to notice the block and start communicating. - The Bushranger _{One ping only} 03:06, 27 November 2024 (UTC)

As a coda, they seem to have resumed on the IP 103.76.205.5 (talk · contribs · WHOIS), so the block should likely be upgraded to indefinite, right? Remsense ‥ 论 08:36, 28 November 2024 (UTC)

For some wild reason this report is not being processed past the initial block. I'm starting a SPI... ABG (Talk/Report any mistakes here) 22:26, 28 November 2024 (UTC)

Yeah, that tears it. Hanson Wu is now indef'd due to choosing to evade their block via an IP. - The Bushranger _{One ping only} 23:27, 28 November 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

User:Loveworldpeace2003

Can someone please help check the contributions of User:Loveworldpeace2003? Many of his edits are adding unsourced information about an actor William Jaye or Will Johnson. Sometimes he reverts it himself, and sometimes others revert it. Some haven't been reverted. There are almost 100 edits going back months. I've speedy-deleted his newly created article William Jaye.

Links:

• Loveworldpeace2003 (talk · contribs)
• William Jaye (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

Quarl ^(talk) 02:00, 27 November 2024 (UTC)

Notified of this discussion. If they don't come here and continue adding unsourced information (I'm suspecting a COI or just some sort of weird hoax), I'll warn them and then block if necessary. voorts (talk/contributions) 02:18, 27 November 2024 (UTC)

I was curious about this as well. Kudos voorts. Οἶδα (talk) 06:28, 27 November 2024 (UTC)

Revoke extneded confirmed for User:Cheriemun

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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Should extended confirmed status be revoked for User:Cheriemun. There are 1759 userspace edits making him not eligible for extended confirmed. CokePepsiSoda( (talk) 05:17, 27 November 2024 (UTC)

@CokePepsiSoda( one month and 500 edits are enough for EC. You are supposed to inform Cheriemun on his talk page when you file a report here. Also its strange that a user who joined just minutes ago knows about there is a thing called EC and comes directly to ANI. Knows too much? Socking? Maybe? ShaanSengupta^Talk 05:25, 27 November 2024 (UTC)

@Shaan Sengupta the edits are sandbox edits so he WP:PGAMED to extended confirmed. CokePepsiSoda( (talk) 06:02, 27 November 2024 (UTC)

Well, it's true that 94.8% of Cheriemun's edits have been to User space but it's not like they gamed EC status to work on contentious subjects. It looks like they work on train station articles in their sandbox and they haven't edited in a month so are unlikely to respond here. It's not apparent what generated this complaint. Thank you to Shaan Sengupta for posting a notification on their User talk page.

CokePepsiSoda(, you still haven't answered what brought you to ANI to discuss this after you have only been an editor for an hour. What were your previous accounts that you edited with? No new editor knows about gaming to achieve EC status. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 06:07, 27 November 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Alexeyevitch Engvar changes

• Alexeyevitch (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

I really wished that it would have not come to this, but I have to report Alexeyevitch for changes of New Zealand English to American English, that's been going on for months.

In September 2024 he changed a spelling of "spelt" to "spelled", despite the former being correct. The same month he changed the NZ spelling of "programme" (NZ English) to "program" (US English). Also in September, he got into an edit war and caused lengthy discussions about whether "spelled" is correct in NZ English as opposed to "spelt" (and other spellings with "-ed" vs "-t").[28][29]. This includes this discussion, where he told me not to participate in it (I did not intend to), and he spelt my name wrong (I believe this is part of his harassment against me -- more on that later).

Today I noticed that he changed an IPA pronunciation of "wilder" from "duh" to "duhr" (in New Zealand English, the "r" is not pronounced).

In October 2024 he edited the page New Zealand English to add original research claiming that New Zealand used to use American spellings such as "favor" (but those spellings were common in English in general at the time).

This follows an ANI thread in July 2024 where Alexeyevitch conspired with an admin to change New Zealand spellings to American ones, and then report to the noticeboard that I was harassing him because I reverted the errors he introduced. (By the way, I do not have a problem with that admin, Schwede66, and I enjoy working with him). The discussion shows more of his English variation changes, going back to 2023.

In that July 2024 ANI discussion we talked about how Alexeyevitch was harassing me. In 2023 he often edited non-New Zealand articles after I had (we both edit a lot of New Zealand articles). In 2024 it got worse, as he found the location of a petrol station I took in the town Paraparaumu, despite me never writing where the location, and then added it to the caption of the image. He has this belief that I live there, or lived there, and he started making a lot of edits about that area of the country. I still do not know why he was harassing me, but this type of thing has appeared to have stopped (or at least I haven't been noticing it because I've written scripts to mute him from watchlists, talk pages, etc).

I believe his English variation changes are part of his harassment against me, because in 2023 and 2024 I went through a large number of New Zealand articles and added the tag "Use New Zealand English" and changes American spellings to New Zealand ones (on New Zealand articles), and he seems to want to undo it. The aforementioned discussion where he spelt my name wrong suggests that it is part of his harssment, because why else would he mention my name?

He also has some form of hatred against New Zealand English for some reason, as his user page says "this user uses MM/DD/YY dates", previously said something like "this user strongly prefers American spellings", his talk page used to say that he may ignore comments that are not written in American English, and he would reply in gibberish that was full of American English spellings.

I really did not want it to come to this, but he has not stopped with his English variation changes since the last discussion.

Proposal: I propose that Alexeyevitch be topic banned from making English variation changes, including spellings, pronunciations, dates, and editing articles and discussing varities of English, broadly construed. I also propose to ban him from interacting with me. ―Panamitsu (talk) 05:28, 27 November 2024 (UTC)

• I thought I'd provide a link to this discussion (User talk:Alexeyevitch#Spelling) that shows this concern over New Zealand English isn't limited to Panamitsu, other editors have brought it up. Are there any other discussions, Panamitsu, where this issue has been discussed?

I think it would help if your complaint was less about your speculations on thie editor's motivations and your claims of harrassment and instead focused on policy violations. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 05:38, 27 November 2024 (UTC)

Not that I'm aware of. It might be possible that those editors in that discussion have discussed it some place that I'm not aware of. Should I ping them to ask? I don't want to forum shop. ―Panamitsu (talk) 05:40, 27 November 2024 (UTC)

Is there a WikiProject New Zealand? Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 06:10, 27 November 2024 (UTC)

Yes there is, and one of the discussions I linked was on that Wikiproject's notice board. ―Panamitsu (talk) 06:16, 27 November 2024 (UTC)

Apologies, I didn't see the second part of your message. I agree with what you've said. That speculation stuff was discussed in the past ANI thread and there hasn't been much change since then, so nothing really needs to be said about it, although I don't think it hurts to add a bit of context.

What I'm really complaining about is that Alexeyevitch is making engvar changes that contradict MOS:RETAIN and MOS:TIES. This has continued after the pervious ANI thread, despite him being apologetic and agreeing not to make those changes. For this reason I believe a topic ban is necessary, rather than just agreeing not to do it. ―Panamitsu (talk) 07:54, 27 November 2024 (UTC)

I was startled to see this. This is not the standard I live to and most of this has been discussed a few months ago but I've learned to use the correct spelling and date formats in articles. I've stayed distant from the user was commited to stay distant. I've done things I regreted in the past (I acknowledge that) but this isn't how we collectively should move foward.

I've diligently used the New Zealand spelling on New Zealand articles and I'm no longer interested in spellings (unless fixing typos e.g. "untill"). I had forgotten most New Zealanders use "uh" but as a South Islander, it's still used but less commonly even here in Christchurch. Apologies for the silliness you experienced earlier this year, this is not the standard I live up to.

As is, my intent is to improve articles and to avoid discussions with this user and I'm not interested in disccusions relating to spellings, though I had a query about using the word "burned" and others in New Zealand English. I'm unfamiliar with what a TBAN is and how would it be enforced but I would amicablly agree to a two-way IBAN. Once again, apologies for this and this stuff shouldn't happen. Alexeyevitch^(talk) 07:16, 27 November 2024 (UTC)

I am disappointed to see this here, mainly because both editors are otherwise an asset to Wikipedia, but simply cannot play well together. As NZ is a small enough country that anyone editing NZ articles will inevitably end up coinciding with anyone else (thus making an interaction ban somewhat impractical) I'd suggest a firm instruction that each butt out of the other's business. As for the pronunciation example - I've been speaking NZ English for almost 60 years and can assure you that I do pronounce the 'r' in 'wilder'. However, one of the characters in that actual movie mentions taking his cue from the word "wildebeest" which does not have an 'r' in it. Daveosaurus (talk) 07:52, 27 November 2024 (UTC)

Just a comment on the "r" pronunciation: it is used mostly in Southland and Otago, but most of the country does not use it. Source In this case it violates MOS:RETAIN because the non-r pronunciation was used first. ―Panamitsu (talk) 07:56, 27 November 2024 (UTC)

• Support EngVar topic ban indefinitely – User:Alexeyevitch is a great contributor to NZ articles and I have gotten along with them and even thanked them for their work in the past before, so I am very disappointed to see them break the promise and continue to engage in MoS-violating changes that got them brought to the previous AN/I case. Something has to stop, and I think it is that User:Alexeyevitch needs to stop making English variety related changes. I see that interaction bans have been brought up here as well, but I think that's a bad idea – if we stop the two from working on each other's edits, then that would mean User:Alexeyevitch would still be allowed to get away with putting non-NZ spellings in NZ articles, thus making it somebody else's task to clean up the non-standard language. It would not resolve the original problem stated by the complainant in this thread.
  Just a little comment of my own: I myself, being born and raised in New Zealand, strongly prefer DMY dates and NZ/British spellings and pronunciations personally, but I always try to respect the different spelling and date standards used in American/Asian topic articles. — AP 499D25 (talk) 04:11, 28 November 2024 (UTC)

  I have a query about the TBAN. I assume this refers to American English and not to words of Māori origin... e.g. me changing Oreti River to Ōreti River, wouldn't be a breach but changing organiser to organizer would be a breach? The date formatting, pronunciations, and disscusions relating to ENGVAR makes sense but I was quite uncertain about correcting Aoraki/Mount Cook to Aoraki / Mount Cook, Lake Ohau to Lake Ōhau, and so on... Alexeyevitch^(talk) 06:16, 28 November 2024 (UTC)

  I have never seen you introduce an error with macrons so I wouldn't want you to be banned from making those changes. ―Panamitsu (talk) 06:20, 28 November 2024 (UTC)

  I assume this isn't an ENGVAR change but instead correcting names and long-term IP vandalism. As is, this isn't an EngVar change since the article is in New Zealand English and I'm simply correcting the spelling of the name of words of Māori origin. Alexeyevitch^(talk) 06:26, 28 November 2024 (UTC)

  Thanks for the explanation. I assumed this was for American English (e.g. organise to organize) and date formatting in New Zealand articles specifically, and not for fixing spellings of words from Māori origin. Alexeyevitch^(talk) 06:37, 28 November 2024 (UTC)

  Yes, that's what I've proposed. ―Panamitsu (talk) 06:54, 28 November 2024 (UTC)

I'd consider changing Oreti River to Ōreti River the fixing of a spelling mistake. Just be careful not to change a (hypothetical) mention of Ooreti to Ōreti as that is a legitimate variant spelling. If in doubt - ignore spelling mistakes (someone else can fix them) and add content or references instead. Daveosaurus (talk) 07:28, 28 November 2024 (UTC)

(Uninvolved) An IBAN here would be tremendously problematic due to the high degree of overlap in articles edited (n.b. 27.622 seconds to execute; wish a "total rows" were provided).

No opinion on the proposed TBAN of ENGVAR / DATEVAR changes in mainspace, but I think a TBAN from even discussing ENGVAR is overly strict, as it's clear just from the present thread that there are legitimate variations within NZ-en, and no diffs evidencing talkspace disruption have been presented.

I note that since the prior ANI, Alexeyevitch has changed their sig from Comic Sans to font-family:cursive, which I'm sure we can all agree demonstrates personal growth. Folly Mox (talk) 14:51, 28 November 2024 (UTC)

I agree with the suggestion that an interaction ban would not be a great idea and I have thus removed it from my proposal. Believe it or not, I am actually rather fond of Alexeyevitch sans the engvar shenanigans, and I once considered him my friend. I hope that this conflict can be resolved because I want to work with him on Christchurch articles, which is something that we both have an interest in. ―Panamitsu (talk) 00:45, 30 November 2024 (UTC)

Disruptive editing and Promotion by User:NervousRing

NervousRing (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

I am trying to cleanup the page of Jan Suraaj Party of promotional content and make a more wikipedia appropriate article but I have been meet by User:NervousRing. His only interest is on the pages on Jan Suraaj Party and its founder Prashant Kishor.

Here are the diffs.

1. [30] Unsourced Promotional Content. List of "campaign goals" about "right individuals at the grassroot level", "vision statements", "problems and opportunities", etc.
2. [31] Promotional Content, unsourced. For example – "Kishor and his team engaged with local communities to build a connection with the grassroots and gather insights for policy formulation", "The campaign was launched to bring transformative political change in the state of Bihar in India.", etc.
3. [32] Promotional content: "Jan Suraaj set up ... challenging the existing political establishment"
4. [33] Replacement of sourced content with Promotional content (with random libel accusation) – "The party’s strategy includes mobilising support from various sections of society and promoting a vision of inclusive and sustainable development."
5. [34] Wholesale revert to promotional version with accusation of vandalism.

On Prashant Kishor page.

1. [35] Removal of sourced content with random accusation of Vandalism.
2. [36] Removal of sources for the aforementioned sourced content.
3. [37] Revert to the same with random accusation of vandalism and accusation of playing "casteist ideology games".

Miscellaneous

1. [38] 3,405 byte removal is a minor edit.
2. [39] Counter warning of "vandalism" and "removing sourced content". Template misuse, etc. Warnings to him were given, he reciprocated.
3. Related talk page discussion where he is misrepresenting sources.

MrMkG (talk) 13:44, 27 November 2024 (UTC)

Please refrain from making personal comments that are demonstrably false. I have edited other pages previously as well.

"Kishor and his team engaged with local communities to build a connection with the grassroots and gather insights for policy formulation" is a fact though?

"The campaign was launched to bring transformative political change in the state of Bihar in India." was an edit made in the previous "Jan Suraaj" page, which I just maintained.

"Jan Suraaj set up ... challenging the existing political establishment" was removed by me, but I understand it remained in the overall "undo vandalism" edit.

Unilaterally undoing changes that add information regarding new incidents that don't promote anything IS vandalism.

I would invite anyone to take a look at the changes I made and decide if it is promoting anything. NervousRing (talk) 15:04, 27 November 2024 (UTC)

Looking at Jan Suraaj Party, it looks like you are both edit-warring, especially you, NervousRing. This will lead to sanctions if it continues and you're lucky that it was not reported earlier. Do not call good faith edits "vandalism" or calling them "libellous". Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 00:35, 28 November 2024 (UTC)

@Liz Can you (or anyone else) look at the full report please? I have added some more things to the report. The present article on Prashant Kishor and Jan Suraaj Party are both left untouched at his version. Former is a consensus violating version and latter is a poorly sourced page now filled with promotional content. MrMkG (talk) 03:38, 28 November 2024 (UTC)

Moviephilee

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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Moviephilee (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) Moviephilee has got 11 warnings from myself and other editors on his edits not conforming to Wikipedia verifiability policy, unconstructive edits, changing content without reliable source, and adding unreliable sources but Moviephilee seem to not care and repeats such unconstructive edits. RangersRus (talk) 18:56, 27 November 2024 (UTC)

(Non-administrator comment) Reported to AIV, and indeffed by Ad Orientem. ABG (Talk/Report any mistakes here) 00:59, 28 November 2024 (UTC)

I keep misreading digits ABG (Talk/Report any mistakes here) 01:00, 28 November 2024 (UTC)

 Blocked x 72 hrs for disruptive editing. Most of their edits have been reverted and there has been zero response to the wall of warnings on their talk page. If this resumes I would support an indef. -Ad Orientem (talk) 01:00, 28 November 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

PerspicazHistorian and disruptive editing on caste articles

Yesterday PerspicazHistorian created Deshmukhs of Parwa which is apparently generated by AI chatbot[40] which is after I told them not to use chatbots[41]. This user has been partially blocked for edit warring on Veerashaiva (now a redirect to Lingayatism), they also created Lingayat Vani which is a caste based POV fork of Lingayatism relying mostly on WP:RAJ era sources and sources without page numbers and includes mostly irrelevant information to the caste itself . They were alerted about WP:GSCASTE in early August [42], yet are still continuing to disrupt the area. I would request some restriction on this user.- Ratnahastin (talk) 13:25, 28 November 2024 (UTC)

There's a recent prior case that ended with the poster blocked for socking here Simonm223 (talk) 13:30, 28 November 2024 (UTC)

Hi adimistrators,

1)@Ratnahastin Yes the article Deshmukhs of Parwa might have involved some AI written content and I will be editing it soon. I saw the tag on the article. I am glad that you flagged that issue and I am more than willing to make the article format better. Will be editing it soon.

2) The is an ongoing AFD Discussion and it's not good to still put the topic on noticeboard. The article Lingayat Vani is about a community "lingayat vani" not the religious Hindu sect of "lingayatism". The community has history of its own as mentioned by the author many times.

3) "Lingayat Vani" is not to glorify any caste system , we live in 21st century it's should not even be the topic of discussion. Moreover the article also deals with the malpractices of the community and addresses the topic in a neutral way.

4) This page has been tried to be vandalized by many POV pushers and Sockpuppets in the past too. I was blocked from editing Veerashaiva by charges raised by a sockpuppet (User:RationalIndia).

5) Wikipedia has reputation of being a repository of data, not the personal views. I have tried to use Wikipedia:RAJ era sources as minimum as possible and it contains other sources too.

6)@Simonm223 Sir, Thank you for pointing out the prior case. PerspicazHistorian (talk) 19:30, 29 November 2024 (UTC)

User conduct

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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• Aliyiya5903 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

User keep reverting to their favourite version of the page. RSES mention "mob" , however the user keep changing it to "local residents". Lullipedia (talk) 13:48, 28 November 2024 (UTC)

This is a content dispute. Also mob is likely not neutral in context. Simonm223 (talk) 13:52, 28 November 2024 (UTC)

This user has repeatedly removed the mention of the second survey detailing the violence,Revision 1234567890

which I believe is important for clarifying the timeline of events. Additionally, the user removed sourced content added content that could be perceived as a threat to a specific group, potentially violating Wikipedia's guidelines on neutrality and respectful content. Aliyiya5903 (talk) 14:41, 28 November 2024 (UTC)

That is not demonstrated with the dif above. Simonm223 (talk) 14:42, 28 November 2024 (UTC)

Changing the word as prominantly stated by the RS would bring editorial bias. Lullipedia (talk) 15:28, 28 November 2024 (UTC)

The source in question is absolutely not sufficiently reliable for Wikipedia to refer to those people as a mob; please don't litigate content disputes here. Simonm223 (talk) 15:30, 28 November 2024 (UTC)

Changing "mob" to "local resident" creates WP:FALSEBALANCE. Lullipedia (talk) 15:33, 28 November 2024 (UTC)

Lullipedia, you could just leave it be, knowing that newspapers, esp. local ones, often use language that is way more incendiary than is proper. In the meantime, you could leave the less incendiary language in the article until we know more, from possibly more reliable sources that have some distance from the events. Drmies (talk) 15:37, 28 November 2024 (UTC)

@Drmies Please see the newspapers first. They are BBC and Indian Express. Very populalry used as RS Lullipedia (talk) 15:40, 28 November 2024 (UTC)

Just a second, Lullipedia--I'm busy blocking your other accounts. Drmies (talk) 15:42, 28 November 2024 (UTC)

Cant face the words I guess. :D Lullipedia (talk) 15:44, 28 November 2024 (UTC)

The source using "mob" also appears to be (a) tabloidy and (b) generally on the "other" ethnoreligious side from those involved. So no, I wouldn't use "mob". "Local residents" is probably accurate but I can't see where a source uses that phrase either. Black Kite (talk) 15:40, 28 November 2024 (UTC)

BBC just calls them "people." Simonm223 (talk) 15:46, 28 November 2024 (UTC)

Thank you for your response. I had already provided an summary for the diff in the previous Revision which was edited by Phonomannoba that I suspect may be used by the same user. i also left a note on the user's talk page explaining my reasoning regarding mob Please let me know if any further clarification is needed. Aliyiya5903 (talk) 15:44, 28 November 2024 (UTC)

If anyone is interested: I had tagged them all as socks of User:Hemacho328wsa, knowing full well that these were probably not the oldest accounts, and looking further I found they are connected to Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/DavidWood11. User:Blablubbs, you and those cute badgers of yours were the last ones active in that SPI--please have another look, see if they are indeed the same (one particular IP looks like a dead giveaway--and I'm pinging Aoidh as well) and if the tags I so carefully curated need to be altered. Oh, Aiodh, will you please look at the possibility of a range block? You'll see what I mean when you look at Lullipedia--but I seriously need to have some coffee. Thanks, Drmies (talk) 15:53, 28 November 2024 (UTC)

@Drmies, the badgers and I agree this is DW11. Rajat Sharma IndiaTV (talk · contribs) and SasuraBAdaPAisawala (talk · contribs) are too. I'll go fiddle with the tags. --Blablubbs (talk) 18:26, 28 November 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Are these open proxies?

Begin copy/paste:

• 185.169.74.104 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · filter log · WHOIS · RDNS · RBLs · http · block user · block log) – WP:PROXY (datacenter). tgeorgescu (talk) 14:54, 28 November 2024 (UTC)

  Declined. This noticeboard is only for naked vandalism/spamming. Feel free to raise your concerns at WP:ANI. Ad Orientem (talk) 18:19, 28 November 2024 (UTC)

• 2604:CA00:10B:4D58:0:0:1261:687F (talk · contribs · (/64) · deleted contribs · filter log · WHOIS · RBLs · http · block user · block log) – WP:PROXY (datacenter). tgeorgescu (talk) 15:09, 28 November 2024 (UTC)

  Declined. This noticeboard is only for naked vandalism/spamming. Feel free to raise your concerns at WP:ANI. -Ad Orientem (talk) 18:20, 28 November 2024 (UTC)

End copy/paste. tgeorgescu (talk) 18:34, 28 November 2024 (UTC)

For clarity, this was copied from WP:AIV. Aside: you can use {{tqb}} to quote a block on a talk page to make it clear what's copied and pasted. --Chris | Crazycomputers (talk) 22:06, 28 November 2024 (UTC)

Proxy checker doesn't identify them as proxies[43][44]. - Ratnahastin (talk) 23:30, 28 November 2024 (UTC)

whatismyipaddress.com says they are datacenters. I don't know if that counts as WP:PROXY. tgeorgescu (talk) 23:52, 28 November 2024 (UTC)

185.169.74.104 - no. 2604:CA00:10B:4D58:0:0:1261:687F - no. Datacenters can lease server space to eg VPN providers but I’m not seeing it here. Malcolmxl5 (talk) 23:59, 28 November 2024 (UTC)

Legal threat by Rechinul

[45] looks to me like a legal threat by Rechinul. He already got indeffed at ro.wiki for issuing a legal threat. tgeorgescu (talk) 18:45, 28 November 2024 (UTC)

That's not a legal threat.--Bbb23 (talk) 18:53, 28 November 2024 (UTC)

It's true the user was indeffed at ro.wiki for making threats, but the block rationale does not say legal threats. All that said, I'm close to blocking the user anyway as WP:NOTHERE combined with disruptive editing and a heavy dose of WP:RGW.--Bbb23 (talk) 18:58, 28 November 2024 (UTC)a

@Bbb23: I am decided to go as far as it takes to prove you wrong—it is not specified how far. Does it entail a court case? I don't know. tgeorgescu (talk) 19:02, 28 November 2024 (UTC)

Exactly, legal threats have to be clear to be blockable; that one is not even close to being clear.--Bbb23 (talk) 19:05, 28 November 2024 (UTC)

I have to admit that some of his edits are highly amusing. tgeorgescu (talk) 19:06, 28 November 2024 (UTC)

Good for blocking as not here. —Alalch E. 19:12, 28 November 2024 (UTC)

Man I wish Wikipedia had the political power this editor thinks it does. Simonm223 (talk) 19:42, 28 November 2024 (UTC)

And now a second new-ish editor is going in and making the changes Rechinul was asking for. Could these be a pair of socks? Simonm223 (talk) 19:51, 28 November 2024 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Rechinul. tgeorgescu (talk) 19:56, 28 November 2024 (UTC)

Result: it is improbable (not impossible) that he is socking. tgeorgescu (talk) 22:57, 28 November 2024 (UTC)

Some of them indeed are WP:NPA, WP:FRINGE and WP:ASPERSION. If I had my way I would have kicked them out for WP:CIR for claiming to be an English-native speaker and proving otherwise. Borgenland (talk) 10:28, 29 November 2024 (UTC)

Not to mention their blatant WP:SOAPBOXing of and spamming on Talk:2024 Romanian presidential election. Borgenland (talk) 10:55, 29 November 2024 (UTC)

Just a note to uninvolved editors and admins, given a recent election on Nov. 24th, there is a heightened level of activity on articles about the 2024 Romanian presidential election and its candidates which is just as tumultuous as the 2024 U.S. presidential election is to residents of that country. There is a runoff in early December and so it might be worth putting some of these articles on your Watchlists for the next few weeks. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 06:16, 29 November 2024 (UTC)

• I have blocked Rechinul for a week for battleground editing and personal attacks. Bishonen | tålk 15:25, 29 November 2024 (UTC).

User:CyberIdris

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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Spark on History of breastfeeding—I'm not going to spend another second of my time convincing this individual, who's recently off the bench for edit warring already, that recognize is not acceptable British English. Someone else can deal with it. If this report seems premature, keep in mind they've simultaneously inserted themselves into the ongoing edit-a-thon quagmire at WP:AN, and their obtuse edit warring here seems tied to their attachment there—not to say they're connected to it directly, as it seems more likely they happen to have caught this axe-grinding opportunity concerning how reverting obvious mistakes in the middle of a contrived fracas is clearly a miscarriage of justice. Remsense ‥ 论 00:20, 29 November 2024 (UTC)

Blocked indefinitely. ~ ToBeFree (talk) 00:29, 29 November 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

User:EBKWiki persistent unsourced edits, POV-pushing

EBKWiki (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

This editor has been warned many times about unsourced edits, with two level-4 warnings in October and November already ([46], [47]), among a flurry of other warnings on their talk page. Their edits since the last warning (17 November) continue to be unsourced and clearly pushing a specific nationalist/cultural POV: [48], [49], [50], [51], [52], [53], [54], [55]. They're not here to edit constructively. R Prazeres (talk) 04:34, 29 November 2024 (UTC)

Respectfully I disagree with the characterization that my edits are unsourced or push a specific nationalist/cultural point of view. I have made efforts to provide sources for the information I contribute and have always aimed to improve the article in a constructive manner. If there are specific concerns with my edits, I am open to discussing them and making any necessary adjustments. My intention is to contribute to Wikipedia in a neutral, fact-based way, and I welcome any constructive feedback or guidance on how to align my edits more closely with Wikipedia’s standards. EBKWiki (talk) 07:42, 29 November 2024 (UTC)

It is not really a matter of perspective or opinion: you simply are not provid[ing] sources for the information I contribute. These additions are totally unsourced. They do not include your sources.

When you write If there are specific concerns with my edits, I am open to discussing them and making any necessary adjustments, it shows that you're not actually engaging with the concerns raised here, because the examples provided are already perfectly specific and can be acted upon by you. The entire point of citing your sources is so others who aren't already familiar with the material or how it applies can verify the specific information. You sometimes include links to websites in your edit summary, but that is not an acceptable alternative. What's more, your sources are very often clearly unacceptable, or your additions aren't actually verified by what you're linking.

(Also, I'm sorry but please do not use ChatGPT to generate replies if that's what you're doing here. It's incredibly rude, and allows you to avoid engaging with the concerns of others.) Remsense ‥ 论 09:23, 29 November 2024 (UTC)

I would like to clarify that many of my edits have simply been attempts to add information about Iranian or Iranian cultures that are not currently represented in the article. My goal has been to expand the scope and ensure that the article provides a more complete and inclusive view. If there are concerns about the way I’ve presented this information or the sources I’ve used, I am more than willing to address them and work collaboratively to improve the article in a neutral and constructive manner. EBKWiki (talk) 07:44, 29 November 2024 (UTC)

Hello, EBKWiki,

Although I'm interested in knowing if R Prazeres has attempted to discuss their issue with your edits with you before they came to ANI, it seems like your User talk page is chock-full of warning notices so you must have known that there were problems with your editing before now. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 08:20, 29 November 2024 (UTC)

To be clear: I have not written anything else on EBKWiki's talk page aside from the ANI notice. I was going to add a new warning when I saw, as mentioned above, that they had been warned over and over since July, including multiple final warnings, so I saw no constructive purpose in yet another. Their recent edits are blatant enough to indicate they've either made no real attempt to improve their editing or are unable to understand the problems and that they will continue to harm Wikipedia in their current pattern. Hence, they are overdue for a review here at ANI.

For what it's worth: the recent unsourced edits at Hammam ([56], [57]) appear to be illustrative of the behaviour: they're claiming out of nowhere that "Persian (Iranian) bath" is a general English term for the Hammamm/Turkish bath, when that is straightforwardly false. The only reason to add this is to push a POV in the lead. The urls in the summary of their second edit (an attempt to re-add this right after being reported here) are just promotional sites for travel agencies or businesses in Iran, irrelevant to the issue and hardly a serious effort at citing reliable sources after being warned about that policy many times. R Prazeres (talk) 08:55, 29 November 2024 (UTC)

I have blocked EBKWiki for two weeks for adding unreferenced and poorly referenced content. The editor has been pushing a pro Persian/pro Iranian point of view without providing references to reliable sources, and has failed to engage with criticism of their edits. Cullen328 (talk) 10:47, 29 November 2024 (UTC)

Legal threats

Hello, all ANI watchers,

I, and another editor received very specific legal threats from User:152.58.93.148 as seen here and here. I have blocked the IP for a week for legal threats. But, thinking about it later, I thought I should acknowledge it here on ANI as it is pretty targeted and specific and could be extended to other admins and editors who have had some contact with this incident with Whatsapp University. I actually had no contact that I'm aware of with User:ShymalWhatsappUniversity but I should ping User:Robertsky who did issue a block towards this editor. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 07:09, 29 November 2024 (UTC)

This is very likely WP:LTA/IAC, a sockfarm that has been harassing WMF and editors for a decade now, back then they took offence over IAC(which is their organisation) and now they are doing the same for their website WhatsApp university. I think the recent threats by Hindu Raksha Dal/Hindu News were made by the same individual. - Ratnahastin (talk) 07:23, 29 November 2024 (UTC)

I'm also going to ping User:Yamla as I've noticed that they have blocked several IP accounts based in Delhi that have issued similar legal or physical threats to our editors. Maybe a week was too short of a block. I did think that it was kind of amusing that they demanded that I turn over all of my personal information to an anonymous IP address within 36 hours. Yeah, I don't think anyone would agree to that demand. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 07:27, 29 November 2024 (UTC)

I see the same kind of threats being issued in this discussion, Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Noticeboard/Archive 457#Hindu News and Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive1172#Hindu News, also by a Shymal, this time from Hindu Raksha Dal. I don't know what the connection is between Hindu News and What's App University. But if this is all the same editor, they came to my User talk page asking for help, I explained the policy basically stating that I couldn't revision delete all of the edits they wanted removed. I guess that is what got their attention on to me. Otherwise, I don't see my connection to all of this. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 07:40, 29 November 2024 (UTC)

They are probably referring to this action of yours actionMomosixer (talk) 09:48, 29 November 2024 (UTC)

You just registered and the first thing you did is post here. That's very odd. - Ratnahastin (talk) 10:01, 29 November 2024 (UTC)

Not really. As an ANI lurker I saw the lady needed some assistance. Momosixer (talk) 10:07, 29 November 2024 (UTC)

They have no basis to file a lawsuit anyway, their "university" doesn't exist and is a hoax, in reality it's just a troll website. - Ratnahastin (talk) 09:02, 29 November 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for the ping. I am extending the block to 1 year per WP:NOP. – robertsky (talk) 09:07, 29 November 2024 (UTC)

It's a bit amusing—"Whatsapp university" is a common phrase used in India to refer to fake news and misinformation spread through Whatsapp The AP (talk) 09:28, 29 November 2024 (UTC)

Well, TheAstorPastor, the WhatsApp University page is a Redirect to the Fake news in India article so I guess that is fitting. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 09:36, 29 November 2024 (UTC)

It's a troll website, operated by IAC LTA.

https://www.whatsappuniversity.org/about

https://www.whatsappuniversity.org/

Our friends... Hindu Rashtra Dal NCPRI India India Against Corruption Hindu Raksha Dal - Ratnahastin (talk) 09:43, 29 November 2024 (UTC)

Yes. They seem to be firmly within the Hindutva / anti-Muslim space if their leaders are anything to judge by. Economic Monopoly through Halal Process | Veeresh Malik and Sanjay Dixit | Jaipur Dialogues 2019 Momosixer (talk) 10:00, 29 November 2024 (UTC)

I wonder what the actual Whatsapp would think of a web site infringing on its trademarks... Daveosaurus (talk) 10:15, 29 November 2024 (UTC)

There is a prominent link on their landing page for that eventuality titled as Whatsapp role in spreading fake news. Momosixer (talk) 10:28, 29 November 2024 (UTC)

We must never allow our content to be influenced by any intimidation tactics or threats by the dogmatic fundamentalist extremist factions of any religion. Sadly, all major religions have such extremist factions. I am a Jew and I am acutely aware that there are such extremist groups within Judaism. I used to be idealistic and uninformed enough to assume that Tibetan Buddhism lacked such extremist factions. I was wrong. Any editor of any religion who engages in any intimidation tactics intended to influence or censor our content, whether through legal threats or allusions to violence, must instantly be blocked indefinitely. We offer legitimate forms of dispute resolutions in all such cases. Our editors have the obligation to cover religious disputes with rigorous neutrality, summarizing high quality reliable sources. Every editor must strive to live up to those high standards, and those that don't need to be warned, and if necessary, sanctioned and blocked. That does not mean that we capitulate to the unreasonable demands of such extremists. Cullen328 (talk) 10:22, 29 November 2024 (UTC)

These people don't seem to be editing Wikipedia articles. It seems they only want talk page discussions referring to them deleted. Momosixer (talk) 10:28, 29 November 2024 (UTC)

I am Indian myself, and I hear the phrase "Whatsapp University" almost on an everyday basis. It's unusual to me that they associated themselves with the phrase that is literally used to convey that the news is fake and information is wrong. The AP (talk) 13:37, 29 November 2024 (UTC)

It's intentional, they did the same thing with IAC which was the name of the movement they appropriated and latter claimed that it was the movement that stole their brand name. They are always claiming common terms to be their "brand" so they can disrupt Wikipedia's process and threaten editors with legal action. - Ratnahastin (talk) 15:37, 29 November 2024 (UTC)

They're trolls and we should WP:DENY them as much as possible. Simonm223 (talk) 15:40, 29 November 2024 (UTC)

User:जनेश ठकुल्ला

User:जनेश ठकुल्ला, Janesh Thakulla, was created 26 November, and has been used only for posting their biography to their user page and user talk page, and to an attempted hijack of Astitva...Ek Prem Kahani [58]. Speedy U5 at their user page was declined, and my attempts at welcome and uw-usertalk to explain the problem have been reverted. That account is currently under a one week block at Nepali WP for the same behaviour. Clearly WP:NOTHERE. Wikishovel (talk) 12:05, 29 November 2024 (UTC)

Indeffed per NOTHERE. Bishonen | tålk 12:31, 29 November 2024 (UTC).

Is this an open proxy ?

• 152.58.93.148 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · filter log · WHOIS · RDNS · RBLs · http · block user · block log) – WP:PROXY . Momosixer (talk) 13:33, 29 November 2024 (UTC)

  Context: @Momosixer queried on my talk page after I had placed the proxy block on the ip address. I stated that I based the block on the information from the IP Tool extension and we have a difference of opinions. As such, I told them to bring the discussion to here. If rationale of the block is not justifiable, any other admins may revert it back to the 1-week NLT block. – robertsky (talk) 13:45, 29 November 2024 (UTC)

Spur.us indicates 50 devices on that IP address and notes it has proxied data. Doesn't necessarily mean it's currently proxying, but I have no objections to this block. --Yamla (talk) 14:04, 29 November 2024 (UTC)

User:ZanderAlbatraz1145 Civility and Content

User:ZanderAlbatraz1145 has been publishing bare urls to mainspace articles for some time. I have informed them that they should add text and format their references, but they have refused to do this multiple times. They have also been uncivil too a high degree with me and other editors. Their civility has been brought up before on their talk page. Below are some comments:

"Get your garbage off my talk page. You took an issue with an edit, you can contribute to it instead of removing it. That's how Wikipedia works, lend a helping hand, pick up where someone else left off. Fix mistakes, not erase them. Show some goddamn consideration, not for me, but for the readers." 1

"Thanks for the help, idiots. If it weren't for me, this information would have been lost to time forever." 2

"Jesus Christ, do I have to do everything myself. And how is it that whenever I write out all of the information, it ends up coming out like shit." 3

"Why was this removed?! God, people on here are so stupid. Why, what's the significance?! Tell me, please, it's a fucking unproduced screenplay. Cited and sourced correctly. For God's sakes leave it be so I don't have to come back and clean up your mess. This piece of information could have been lost to time forever because of your ignorance. Thank goodness I swooped in to re-re-re-replace it" 4

Jon698 (talk) 19:55, 29 November 2024 (UTC)

I am embarrassed to say the least, admittedly. But these are all unfairly taken out of context. I also tried to handle this issue calmly at first, but it's past that at this point. As I've said before, and as I've just realized on my talk page, I've never had this type of issue with another editor before. We don't need to be battling each other. You took an issue with an edit, so fix it. Nothing new. That's how Wikipedia has always been. Don't remove it, because that's being counterproductive. ZanderAlbatraz1145 (talk) 19:59, 29 November 2024 (UTC)

Not sure if it matters at this point, but the third out-of-context 'pulled' quote, if you read it, is more a criticism of myself. It's also an answer to this issue; I often don't write out certain links because I'm highly critical of my own writing. Once again, other editors have always generously formatted the link, and written it out, realizing it beautifully in the article. I feel like this user is just picking a battle here. ZanderAlbatraz1145 (talk) 20:02, 29 November 2024 (UTC)

Have you considered trying, per WP:AGF, approaching your interactions with this user as if they mean sincerely what they say, and that they share with you a genuine desire to improve Wikipedia? 100.36.106.199 (talk) 20:22, 29 November 2024 (UTC)

I retract this issue in light on ZanderAlbatraz's recent comments here and on their talk page. Jon698 (talk) 20:24, 29 November 2024 (UTC)

There we have it. Let's draw a line in the sand— 🤝 ZanderAlbatraz1145 (talk) 20:29, 29 November 2024 (UTC)

ZanderAlbatraz1145, please read Referencing for beginners and please agree to properly format your bare URL references with complete bibiographic details. You can always ask for assistance at the Help desk or the Teahouse. Will you agree to do that? Cullen328 (talk) 22:26, 29 November 2024 (UTC)

Way ahead of you.

Just skimmed through that link, even thought I am not a beginner... just lazy.

Thanks. ZanderAlbatraz1145 (talk) 00:56, 30 November 2024 (UTC)

JaneenGingerich AGF and NOTHERE

JaneenGingerich (talk · contribs)

After this new user came into the Donald Trump talk page and weren't receiving attention after multiple comments, I offered to explain their basic concerns on their talk. I believe I adequately explained why their proposals weren't a good fit, but in the process, as other editors came into to back these up, the user began insisting I and others were socking. See for example their immediate response to the welcome template on their talk and User talk:Rollinginhisgrave#mandruss for example. They were warned against casting aspersions on the latter. They have since begun harassing Mandruss [1][2]. They have been warned [59] to AGF. Although they have made some gestures towards being HERE, their comments since as seen above do not reflect this commitment being sincere. They have been notified of this posting. Rollinginhisgrave (talk) 20:15, 29 November 2024 (UTC)

I blocked them for obvious trolling before I knew there was a report here.-- Ponyo^{bons mots} 20:18, 29 November 2024 (UTC)

User:TheCrusadesWereAwesome

Contrary to popular belief, they were actually bad—mostly because they were tacky and expensive. except that time Richard Lionheart took down the King of Austria's banner hanging from the walls of Acre because he hadn't actually helped enough to take the city for him to deserve that. I will grant that part was awesome.

Anyway, TheCrusadesWereAwesome (talk · contribs) is another immediate Nikola Tesla edit-warring casualty, alas: I will stand my ground. These are good-faith edits as I'm making it more accurate. He was an ethnic Serb from Croatia and the sources already provided support this. So the label of Croatian Serb is far more accurate than Serbian-American. If consensus is wrong I will oppose it and stand up for the truth.

May the Lord bless and keep them. Remsense ‥ 论 20:52, 29 November 2024 (UTC)

I was going to temporary block them from the article, but the added personal attacks made me decide on a site wide block, only 24 hours, though. Any admin is free to increase the timer, if they feel like this user is not here. Isabelle Belato ^🏳‍🌈 20:59, 29 November 2024 (UTC)

...I mean: the name, the bio, the disruptive editing. Surely a clear troll? GiantSnowman 21:07, 29 November 2024 (UTC)

Eh, I saw no reason to assume that when merely "well meaning if acutely zany in a way I find disagreeable" seemed most likely. Remsense ‥ 论 21:12, 29 November 2024 (UTC)

Considering some of their first edits, my guess is that they are a troll, yes, which is why I wouldn't oppose another admin stepping in with an indefinite WP:NOTHERE block. I'm trying to assume good faith here, though. Isabelle Belato ^🏳‍🌈 22:12, 29 November 2024 (UTC)

I am that administrator. After reviewing all of edits that TheCrusadesWereAwesome made, I concluded that an indefinite block is appropriate because I am unable to detect good faith. Cullen328 (talk) 00:45, 30 November 2024 (UTC)

User:WhiteBear09

At User talk:WhiteBear09, user is threatening block evasion and abusing talk page access. Could someone be nice enough to revoke it? JeffSpaceman (talk) 21:57, 29 November 2024 (UTC)

 Done voorts (talk/contributions) 22:04, 29 November 2024 (UTC)

Overzealous blocking by User:ToBeFree

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

---

CyberIdris, a new editor, was in the past given a temp page block for a slow motion edit war. Three weeks later CyberIdris voiced concerns of an excessive indef block on another new editor, Nnamdi Kinghenry, who had been copy-editing and introducing some relatively simple grammar mistakes[60]. Nnamdi Kinghenry is apparently a part of a group of new users doing good faith copy-editing as an onboarding step, that included user Brown Stella.

User Remsense, concerned about grammar mistakes, was mass reverting every edit from these users, and CyberIdris objected to one of the reverts of a Brown Stella edit[61] on the grounds that it, from what I can see, isn't vandalism and doesn't contain any obvious errors unlike other edits. I also think these kind of pointy reverts can discourage new editors from contributing.

This led to a content dispute between Remsense and CyberIdris over that edit, that concluded with CyberIdris telling Remsense to "please discuss it on talk"[62]. ToBeFree then indef blocked CyberIdris for edit warring even though it had not gone over 3RR, and took no action against Remsense who also contributed (and made 5 reverts including reverts prior to CyberIdris's particiation).

ToBeFree has a prior history of issuing indef blocks on users who have gotten into content disputes with Remsense: [63][64][65]

Regardless of the context that led up to it (which demonstrates that CyberIdris had a good faith concern for a fellow user), the escalation from one week page block to an indef block even without a 3RR violation strikes me as extremely overzealous for a new user given that, from what I see, no admin ever said anything about revert restrictions to CyberIdris.

331dot, who reviewed the unblock request, is notable for being the admin who endorsed every single bad block that Graham87 made. Remsense does not endorse this block and is surprised it happened[66]. 181.23.146.172 (talk) 00:00, 30 November 2024 (UTC)

No one should endorse immediate blocks without due consideration. It's pretty unfair for new people. Ahri Boy (talk) 00:05, 30 November 2024 (UTC)

Apologies, but you've chosen to go further down exactly the wrong path, CyberIdris. Like I said on your talk page, while your rhetoric is very soothed and peaceable, your conduct has been anything but reasonable: you decided first to edit war over a ENGVAR issue where you were trivially in the wrong, in order to take a brave stand where you teach us how onboarding is more important than preventing obvious mistakes from being added to the encyclopedia.

Now, you're obviously socking to make this post—it is so obvious that it hurts. Your behavior is weirdly deceptive, dismissive, and dogmatic considering the crux of your concern is how we should be more patient with new editors. That you can't actually discuss these points without assuming the soapboxing stance is a subtype of WP:BATTLEGROUND mentality that we don't need at all, even if you weren't trying to get around your block in a manner that'll rightfully ensure that it won't get lifted. I wish you had reconsidered this! Remsense ‥ 论 00:09, 30 November 2024 (UTC)

I have a hard time believing CyberIdris is actually a new editor, judging by their immediate knowledge of obscure Wikipedia jargon. That said, 181.23.146.172, if you are CyberIdris, posting this while you are blocked is block evasion and is not helping your case. C F A 00:13, 30 November 2024 (UTC)

Blocked the IP for pretty clear block evasion and reset CyberIdris's block. voorts (talk/contributions) 00:20, 30 November 2024 (UTC)

For the record, I had attempted to address your concerns in Special:Diff/1260180269. When automatic block expiry just leads to the same behavior as before the block, I find it reasonable to require an unblock request in which the user explains their understanding of the problem and promises not to continue. That's all I personally would be looking for when reviewing the resulting unblock request(s). ~ ToBeFree (talk) 00:28, 30 November 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.