Wikipedia:Media copyright questions/Archive/2024/December

1915 image from Botswana

I'm looking to add this image to Seepapitso III: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Eai7p5bXkAYKJeS?format=jpg. The photo was taken in 1915. I found it in The Birth of Botswana (1987) but can't find where they got it from or when it was first published. I also don't know the photographer. Is there any license I can upload it under? Or would it be non-free use? Thebiguglyalien (talk) 04:36, 3 December 2024 (UTC)

Hi Thebiguglyalien. Here are some things I think might apply to such an image.

1. If you can demonstrate the photo was published anywhere prior to January 1, 1929, it would likely be public domain under US copyright law as {{PD-US}} or {{PD-US-expired}}. The image sort of looks like a flyer or advertisement which means that it might be considered to be published if copies of it were distributed to others.
2. If you can figure out who took the photo and find out when they died, it could be {{PD-old-70}} even if first published in 1987 as long as the photo wasn't still under copyright protection as of the URAA date of the country of first publication. Per c:COM:Botswana, Botswana applies a 50 year p.m.a. which means it would need to be shown the author died before January 1, 1946.
3. If the image was first published in 1987, but the publication lacked a copyright notice and wasn't subsequently registered for copyright protection within five years of publication, the publication itself could be within the public domain per c:Template:PD-US-1978-1989 or {{PD-1996}}.
4. If you're unable find out 1, 2 or 3, most likely it's going to be treated as an unknown anonymous work which means it could be eligible for copyright protection for up to 120 years after creation or 95 years after first publication, whichever is lesser.

Of course, my assessment might be incorrect and others will probably correct me if it is. You could also ask about this at c:COM:VPC because that's probably where the image should be uploaded if it's PD.

As for whether the image can be used as non-free content, in principle, yes it could qualify as {{Non-free biog pic}} given that the subject is deceased, but meeting WP:FREER could be an issue because of when the subject died. Even if this particular image isn't PD, there might be another image capable of serving the same purpose encyclopedic purpose as this or any other non-free one that could be found and used instead. -- Marchjuly (talk) 06:36, 3 December 2024 (UTC)

I would think that this image should be fine. While the US concept of "publication" for old works is a little murky, the rule of thumb generally applied on Commons is that US law considered photographs to be published when they leave the confine of a commercial photographer and are passed to the client. This implies that studio portraits such as this one can almost always be assumed to have been published shortly after creation.

For Commons, there remains Botswanan copyright to consider. Since copyright lasts until 50 years after the death of the author, Commons permits that if we do not know the death dates of the author, we assume that they will not have lived more than fifty years after the work in question, allowing for this photo to be assumed PD in Botswana since 2016.

On Commons, this can all be condensed into the single license tag {{PD-old-assumed-expired|duration=50}}, Felix QW (talk) 08:20, 3 December 2024 (UTC)

Thank you! I've uploaded it at Commons:File:Seepapitso Bathoen Gaseitsiwe.jpg. Thebiguglyalien (talk) 17:02, 3 December 2024 (UTC)

File:Abraham Hamadeh 119th congress.jpg

File:Abraham Hamadeh 119th congress.jpg has been used on a few pages now, two of which I've since reverted. It's been labeled as an "official" photo of the 119th United States Congress even though it hasn't yet been uploaded on Congress.gov or another official government website, since the 119th Congress has yet to start. It's only been uploaded on Representative-elect Hamadeh's newly-created "official" Twitter account, which leads me to believe that there may be an issue with copyright, and it might not yet be public domain (if it's the official photo in the end). AG202 (talk) 21:31, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

The file was uploaded to Commons so it would probably be better to ask about it at c:COM:VPC. Personally, though, this does seem like a case of "too soon" in an image licensing sense given that Hamadeh isn't officially a US congressman until they take their oath of office and formally assume their duties. Hamadeh could, if they want, simply agree to give their consent by posting they're releasing the image under one of these licenses on their X account or sending a c:COM:CONSENT email to Wikimedia VRT, but I don't think they or anyone else can claim {{PD-USGov-Congress}} just yet. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Marchjuly (talk • contribs) 22:20, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

Thanks and I've since started a thread on Commons. AG202 (talk) 00:10, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

Too soon? He's a member-elect and members-elect take their official photos during the orientation during the lame duck session. – Muboshgu (talk) 00:11, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

Yes, but the issue is that it hasn't yet been published by House.gov. Does a congressperson, edit: congressperson-elect in particular, posting an image solely on social media count as public domain? Does it count as a work of the U.S. federal government? That's what led me to bring the topic here. AG202 (talk) 00:15, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

The images are clearly taken by officials of the US Government so I would say yes and if a member posts it of their own volition I would say it qualifies. In fact if you look at Tim Sheehy's main picture you will see it comes from Ryan Zinke's Instagram page when they were at a campaign event together. We've also used images from freshmen before like when Cory Mills and Anna Paulina Luna posted theirs when they were first elected. There was no issue then and I don't see why there would be an issue now. Wollers14 (talk) 00:21, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

Was the issue brought up then with Cory Millis and Anna Paulina Luna? If so, please point me to the relevant discussions. It's better to be safe than sorry, and I want to make sure that the policy is clear. Keep in mind as well that Abraham Hamadeh is not yet a congressperson, but a congressperson-elect, hence not yet officially a member of government. (Ryan Zinke was already a member at the time of posting) There's no harm in getting more information and/or at least waiting until the 119th Congress is sworn in. AG202 (talk) 00:26, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

Not that I remember I just know that nobody took them down. Beth Van Duyne and Tony Gonzales also did the same in 2020 when they were first elected (I'm feeling old now) Also the account that Hamadeh used to post it was not his personal account but the account he will use when he officially gets sworn in which have the gray check marks if you use X. Wollers14 (talk) Wollers14 (talk) 00:45, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

Nobody taking an image down doesn't necessarily mean it's licensed correctly. As I posted above and below, this is a file uploaded to Commons and whether it's OK as licensed or should be deleted is a question for Commons. However, whether the file should be used for encyclopedic purposes on Wikipedia is a question for Wikipedia. If the local consensus is that the file is OK per WP:COPY#Guidelines for images and other media files and has no WP:F9 or WP:F11 issues, then Wikipedia can probably continue using it. The file can still end up being deleted from Commons though. -- Marchjuly (talk) 00:55, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

To help answer the earlier question about whether Commons had this discussion before the answer is actually yes and the image was kept. https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Deletion_requests/File:Anna_Paulina_Luna.jpg Wollers14 (talk) 01:07, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

That's great, but again Commons:Deletion_requests/File:Anna_Paulina_Luna.jpg something to point out at Commons if the file ends up at DR or tagged for speedy deletion. Whether the file should be removed is something that can be discussed on Wikipedia (i.e. WP:FFD), but whether it should be deleted is something that should be sorted out on Commons. -- Marchjuly (talk) 01:15, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

Note: the image was kept after the congresswoman was sworn in. It's not yet clear (and consensus was not clear either) what to do before a congressperson is sworn in. I'm trying to be as specific as possible for a reason. AG202 (talk) 01:21, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

See also: Commons deletion request for MTG "official photo" AG202 (talk) 05:34, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

The Tim Sheehy image is a crop of a larger image of Sheehy and Ryan Zinke that is claimed to have been taken by a member of Zinke after he officially became a congressman. That's a completely different situation than what's being discussed here. It would be certainly fine for a crop of a similar image taken by of Hamadeh and someone else that is licensed as PD-USGov (i.e. taken by an employee of the federal government as part of their official duties) to be used. Such a photo wouldn't even need to be a photo of Hamadeh and another public official; it could be Hamadeh and anyone or anything. As for the other images, files generally don't really go through a vetting process before they're uploaded; so, anyone could upload an image to Commons, claim it's licensed as such and such, and nobody would verify whether that's the case before the file is uploaded. If there's a problem with a file's licensing, it's usually something pointed out later (sometimes much later). Anyway, if the photos were taken the orientation phase for new members by an federal employee as part of their official duties, then it should be fine. I'm assuming such a thing should be fairly easy to verify if it's something that happens every election cycle. Either way, the file was uploaded to Commons and it needs to sorted out there. Whether the file should be used in the article about Hamadeh is a question for local consensus to decide perhaps, but whether it should be deleted is something to resolve on Commons. -- Marchjuly (talk) 00:43, 22 November 2024 (UTC)-- Marchjuly (talk) 00:43, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

As an update for anyone reading, the Commons discussion has a user Wollers14 confirm with the House Creative Services via email that they took the photo. Hasn't been any update on if there should be anything done for the information that its by them or not for a template, but I think it should be fine to be used. reppop^talk 22:46, 2 December 2024 (UTC)

I've added the image back to the pages. If there are any objections feel free to ping me on this discussion or the other one. Wollers14 (talk) 04:51, 4 December 2024 (UTC)

"You Drive Me Crazy" album file usage

Hello. I noticed the album cover for the song "You Drive Me Crazy" was removed. I don't understand the reason for this, because the file I used (T-ara Breaking Heart Repackage.jpg) is already used on the main album's page (Absolute First Album). This is a single from the album. I didn't realize there's a problem with the file since it has been there for year. RWikiED20 (talk) 21:13, 6 December 2024 (UTC)

Hi RWikiED20. Each use of non-free content requires two things: a non-free copyright license and a non-free use rationale. In almost all cases, one copyright license is all that's needed regardless of how many times a file is being used, but a separate, specific non-free use rationale is needed for each use because not all non-free uses are equivalent. The bot that removed the file included a link to WP:NFC#Implementation in it's edit summary because it couldn't find a non-free use rationale for the file's use in article about the song; it found one for the article about the album, but not one about the song. If a rationale for this use is added to the file's page, the bot will stop removing the file. However, just adding a rationale doesn't necessarily mean everything is OK. Non-free album cover art is pretty much never allowed to be used for primary identification purposes in articles about songs just for the sake of it, but cover art specifically for the song itself can be used. So, if you can establish that the cover art you want to use is the official cover art for the song, things should be OK; if not, the file shouldn't be used in that article. -- Marchjuly (talk) 21:35, 6 December 2024 (UTC)

I didn't know that. Ok, thank you! RWikiED20 (talk) 21:51, 6 December 2024 (UTC)

how to tag a sound file from WhatsApp

File:Gǃo'e_ǃHu.ogg was posted online by an astronomer who wanted to provide the pronunciation of a moon he had named after a Juǀʼhoan mythological figure. He contacted an anthropologist who worked with a Juǀʼhoan literacy group, and one of them pronounced the name for her over WhatsApp. It was intended for free distribution and no-one claims copyright. The Juǀʼhoan doesn't have an email acct, much less one that would correspond to the astronomer's website. Can the anthropologist who solicited the pronunciation send the astronomer permission for use, for him to forward to wikimedia? Does pronouncing a single word even amount to something that could be copyrighted? — kwami (talk) 07:46, 7 December 2024 (UTC)

Song lyrics translations

There is a dispute about the admissibility of translated song lyrics at a) Wenn ich ein Vöglein wär (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) and b) Es kam ein Herr zum Schlößli (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views). The source for a) is https://stihi.ru/2024/08/29/5879, for b) it's https://stihi.ru/2018/08/15/9373 . My reading of the Copyright notices on those pages prevents their use at Wikipedia. I've raised the matter with the editor who placed those translations into the articles, User:Tamtam90 (who made several uncivil remarks in their edit summaries), on my talk page. They claim to be the author of those translations and they point to a different Copyright notice in the footnote of https://o.stihi.ru/ which doesn't cover Wikipedia's requirements either. That website has a page on "Certificate of publication" which doesn't address Creative Commons or GNU licenses at all. What's to be done? -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 02:07, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

The way that could make sense apparently would be if Tamtam90 is С. Павлов. If so, the user could provide evidence to VRT. The vague reference to a discussion on Wikidata is not linked. A search did not find something like that there. However, there is something on Wikisource [1]. Not sure why the person who spotted the problem seemed to leave it there. Notifying User:Vladis13: can you please bring some light on this matter? -- Asclepias (talk) 18:25, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

s:ru:User:Tamtam90 is С.Павлов. I put the pages of his translations up for deletion, because, obviously, on the https://stihi.ru there is no notice that this is a free license; on the contrary, it says that the rights are reserved by the author. There I explained this in detail to the user and recommended improving the license on the site by indicating CC-BY, and using the VRTS system to solve all problems. The user said that he sent a request to VRTS there. And also I made a remark to the user there.
Wikisource Rules allow to use a different way for translations created and published in Wikisource, so this automatically licensed under CC-BY. - Just need to indicate the user as author of the translation and setup the CC-BY license template. This is what was done, example. Vladis13 (talk) 08:06, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

User:Tamtam90, I would advise in order to avoid the non-free license on the stihi.ru, to publish the english translation in en.Wikisource (s:en:Wikisource:Translations#Wikisource_original_translations). After, in en.Wikipedia to set the link to this translation in en.Wikisource. Vladis13 (talk) 12:42, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

User:Vladis13, the only reason why I still haven't published my English translations in Wikisource is: there are only 5-10 of them. So, when you approve that my "continuing" translation wouldn't meet any further deletion nightmares, I will start to publish my works in en.wikisource.org (however, the link to stihi.ru must be saved in Wikisource, as I understood). --Tamtam90 (talk) 15:19, 23 November 2024 (UTC)

Не уверен, что понял ваш ответ, Google Translate переводит не идеально. Если вы указываете ссылку на stihi.ru, где нет свободной лицензии совместимой с Фондом Викимедия, то это вводит в заблуждение участников и вы получаете запросы на удаление. Именно поэтому я рекомендую разместить ваши переводы в Викитеке, где они будут под свободной лицензией. Я не имею отношения к en.wikisource. Нет никакого ограничения на количество публикуемых переводов. Vladis13 (talk) 20:29, 23 November 2024 (UTC)

For the benefit of non-Russian speakers, a Google translation: I'm not sure I understood your answer, Google Translate doesn't translate perfectly. If you link to stihi.ru, which doesn't have a free license compatible with the Wikimedia Foundation, it misleads participants and you get requests to remove it. That's why I recommend posting your translations on Wikisource, where they will be under a free license. I have nothing to do with en.wikisource. There is no limit on the number of translations you can publish. -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 00:06, 24 November 2024 (UTC)

• My ticket permission see here: https://wiki.riteme.site/wiki/User:Tamtam90. Is that enough, to recall these nominations? --Tamtam90 (talk) 17:39, 29 November 2024 (UTC)
• As for the two aforementioned songs, two links to Wikisource has been added to the pages, to their last section ("References" or "External links"). Is there any other reason, still to keep this nomination "open"?--Tamtam90 (talk) 06:30, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

WDMacMillan1920.jpg still non-free?

Hi all The file:WDMacMillan1920.jpg is non-free according to its categories. I would like to use it in the German Wikipedia. The person shown on this pitcure died in 1948 which is more than 70 years ago. Is it possible to change the license to public domain? Kind regards, FerdiBf (talk) 08:17, 12 December 2024 (UTC)

@FerdiBf the problem is that we don't know when it was first published and that's the date that starts the clock ticking for US copyright duration. I accept what the rationale says that it's probably the 1920s and therefore it's very likely that it is now out of copyright. Whether that is enough for de.wp or Commons you'd have to ask there. Nthep (talk) 08:26, 12 December 2024 (UTC)

Thank you very much for your advice. FerdiBf (talk) 11:47, 12 December 2024 (UTC)