User talk:Sephiroth BCR/Archive 20

This is an archive of past discussions with User:Sephiroth BCR. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

Archive 15

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Archive 18

DYK for List of Kuroshitsuji episodes

On 15 October, 2008, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article List of Kuroshitsuji episodes, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

BorgQueen (talk) 08:38, 15 October 2008 (UTC)

Little question

Should remakes of a game be listed as different games in the same list? For example The King of Fighters 99 was changed its name when it was released to Sega Dreamcast and added some new stuff. There are other remakes that were released more than ten years after the original was released. Regards.Tintor2 (talk) 14:59, 15 October 2008 (UTC)

WP:ANIME/ASSESS#Assessment guidelines

Hi Sephiroth BCR,

Myself and Dinoguy1000 have recently added assessment guidelines for lists to help classify them by class, and would like your input. Would you please comment on Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Anime and manga/Assessment#List class regarding these guidelines?

As always, I appreciate your help.

G.A.S ^talk 15:24, 18 October 2008 (UTC)

To be specific, they apply to chapter and episode lists, although the description of List-class also covers "pure" lists (stand-alone and navilists). If you'd care to write something up for character lists, that'd be awesome too! —Dino guy 1000 16:19, 18 October 2008 (UTC)

Shikamaru Nara GAN

I saw your first message, but as it was my 33rd GA review this month, I decided to take a day off from reviewing. I have replied on the GA review page with two final items. GaryColemanFan (talk) 17:11, 19 October 2008 (UTC)

Bronze Reel

On behalf of a grateful project, congrats!

It is my honor, as the Lead Coordinator of WikiProject Films, to give you the inaugural conferral of the WikiProject Service Award, Third Class - the Bronze Reel. Awarded for meritorious service in completing the majority of your 0.7 worklist. Most gratefully, Girolamo Savonarola (talk) 04:02, 20 October 2008 (UTC)

FLC overload?

You may be interested in this thread. Incidentally, your Nobel laureates by university lists are inspiring me to come up with one for Oxford University to redress the balance! Regards, Bencherlite ^Talk 11:39, 20 October 2008 (UTC)

I'm underway at User:Bencherlite/List of Nobel laureates affiliated with the University of Oxford. Bencherlite ^Talk 14:48, 20 October 2008 (UTC)

OK, I'll try it that way. Bencherlite ^Talk 14:55, 20 October 2008 (UTC)

Bount

Can you fix this double redirect? I was not able to since it is protected. Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 01:21, 21 October 2008 (UTC)

Done. — sephiroth bcr ^(converse) 01:59, 21 October 2008 (UTC)

Thanks Sephiroth. Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 02:04, 21 October 2008 (UTC)

RfA

Hi Sephiroth! You can co-nomiate if you wish :) I am posting the page for discussion ASAP. -- Ynhockey ^(Talk) 18:17, 21 October 2008 (UTC)

I have posted the nomination on WP:RFA. Cheers, Ynhockey ^(Talk) 18:26, 21 October 2008 (UTC)

Hi again! It appears that the RfA has passed. Thank you for the co-nomination, it is much appreciated! -- Ynhockey ^(Talk) 21:04, 28 October 2008 (UTC)

Contest Invitation

Hello there!

You have been invited to enter C4v3m4n's Contest!.

The contest is designed to provide users with a challenge while still having fun! This month's contest is focused on Movember, a month designed to to raise awareness and funds for men's health issues, such as prostate cancer and depression in Australia and New Zealand.

Follow the link given above to find out more information. Hope to see you there!

${\mathfrak {C}}{\mathfrak {4}}{\mathfrak {v}}{\mathfrak {3}}{\mathfrak {m}}{\mathfrak {4}}{\mathfrak {n}}$ 04:19, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

DYK for List of Nobel laureates in Economics

On 22 October, 2008, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article List of Nobel laureates in Economics, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

BorgQueen (talk) 09:34, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

Peer review

I have listed List of Reborn! chapters for peer review after it was copyedited. Could you pay a look? Thanks.Tintor2 (talk) 15:50, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

DYK for List of female Nobel laureates

On 23 October, 2008, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article List of female Nobel laureates, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

Another fine DYK article! Royal broil 17:19, 23 October 2008 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Featured list candidates/List of North Melbourne Football Club coaches

Any chance, you'd be able to look over this article and comment on it please? Any help would be greatly appreciated. C4v3m4n (talk) 23:38, 23 October 2008 (UTC)

DYK for List of Nobel laureates affiliated with Princeton University

On 24 October, 2008, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article List of Nobel laureates affiliated with Princeton University, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

Gatoclass (talk) 16:12, 24 October 2008 (UTC)

Smile! (plus barnstar)

RockManQ ^(talk) has smiled at you! Smiles promote WikiLove and hopefully this one has made your day better. Spread the WikiLove by smiling at someone else, whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past or a good friend. Cheers, and Happy editing!
Smile at others by adding {{subst:Smile}} to their talk page with a friendly message.

You deserve a barnstar too! RockManQ ^(talk) 00:59, 25 October 2008 (UTC)

		All Around Amazing Barnstar
		For doing pretty much everything right. Congrats, you deserve it! RockManQ ^(talk) 00:59, 25 October 2008 (UTC)

DYK for List of Nobel laureates affiliated with Washington University in St. Louis

On 25 October, 2008, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article List of Nobel laureates affiliated with Washington University in St. Louis, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

Thank you for your contributions, and all the best for your FLC! - Cheers, Mailer Diablo 04:48, 25 October 2008 (UTC)

DYK for List of Nobel laureates affiliated with the City University of New York

On 25 October, 2008, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article List of Nobel laureates affiliated with the City University of New York, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

Elucidate ^{(parlez à moi)} Ici pour humor 21:25, 25 October 2008 (UTC)

Can you help?

Are you good with technical issues? For some reason User:RockManQ/Sandbox#Interstate 55 in Illinois doesn't seem to be rendering all my content, and I can't get a ref tag to work. Please help or direct me to somewhere where I can get some. RockManQ ^(talk) 01:29, 26 October 2008 (UTC)

Is that better? Bencherlite ^Talk 01:48, 26 October 2008 (UTC)

Thank you very much! RockManQ ^(talk) 01:49, 26 October 2008 (UTC)

I need help too

Dear Sepihiroth,

I am looking for a mentor on en.WP . I am brandnew to the whole project, have doen some edits on an article on an austrian politician, but realized that I need to learn a lot more about en.WP .

There are a whole punch of things, I need to learn.

I would be glad to hear back from you.

Thank you --Oxygen305 (talk) 15:32, 27 October 2008 (UTC)

Castlevania Alucard Editing

Hi Sephiroth, i was sent a message by you regarding me supposidly "vandalizing" the Alucard page. I'm sorry for the confusion, but i merely wish to keep the fans up to date on the news of Alucard. i even put in the japanesse text from the Tokyo Gaming show so they would know were to check to find the trailer if they didn't believe me and confirm that it is true. but i promise not to do it again without your permission so please get back to me so i can get your permission so i can keep the fans up to date on the news, thanks! User:Searcy g

List of Nobel laureates affiliated with the University of Pennsylvania

Sorry, I just moved it back to the original title without knowing you had moved it earlier. Are you sure that "Laureates" needs not to be in lower case? --BorgQueen (talk) 13:11, 26 October 2008 (UTC)

DYK for List of Nobel Laureates affiliated with the University of Pennsylvania

On 26 October, 2008, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article List of Nobel Laureates affiliated with the University of Pennsylvania, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

BorgQueen (talk) 17:13, 26 October 2008 (UTC)

Hello

I sent you an e-mail. -- Scorpion ⁰⁴²² 21:41, 27 October 2008 (UTC)

Artifix Records deletion

Hello. You deleted an article on Artifix Records. Many of the bands on that record label have critical and historical acclaim. Some of the bands have been featured in documentaries and museum gallery shows. There is a lot of extensive information and secondary sources to back all of this up, but you deleted the article before more info could be given. So how do we get the article back up? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Gregpunk (talk • contribs) 01:51, 28 October 2008 (UTC)

User flag

Hi there. I was wondering if you could take a look at User:GODKING_OF_ICE_CERBERUS_WERE-GARURUMON. I was looking through hir edit history and it looks like it's all vandalism. I noticed that you posted a talk edit on hir page for a similar reason and that you're an admin, so I was hoping I could bring this to your attention and have appropriate action taken. Let me know if you're uncertain of what complaints I have. Thanks!Luminum (talk) 14:11, 30 October 2008 (UTC)

museum list, not sure why you continue to edit me out.

I am not sure why this keeps happening, but I have moved and moved and moved and still you continue to edit me out.

I would like to add pictures to my profile page, if once again you do not edit it out of existance.

Where do I upload pictures to Wiki?

my email contact is toymuseum@hotmail.com

I wanted to be a catagory, that was not allowed I wanted to be listed with other museums, that was not allowed.

So finally someone made an offlist of actual museum's, I thought finally I was golden, and that was not allowed.

Not sure what else to do. I am trying to convince other people to open building block themed museum's as well, but you guys are not helping the matter in the least!!!

There are plans on the table for MEGA Blocks, Erector as well as theme museum for all the above.

We have been released from our exclusive LEGO contract, so that may be happening to us as well in the near future!

Thanks for any help, or if you want please feel free to create our page for us. You can theme it anyway you please. I could care less on the content, just the recognition for my lifes work works for me.

www.brickmuseum.net for pictures;

http://flickr.com/photos/clarity2199/2985695760/in/photostream/

thanks

dan —Preceding unsigned comment added by Clarity2199 (talk • contribs) 08:45, 31 October 2008 (UTC)

Happy Halloween!

As I am going around wishing other Wikipedians a Happy Halloween, I got to you. So here's yours! Happy Halloween, RockManQ ^(talk) 20:41, 31 October 2008 (UTC)

Friendly note regarding talk page messages

Hello. As a recent editor to User talk:GODKING OF ICE CERBERUS WERE-GARURUMON, I wanted to leave a friendly reminder that as per WP:USER, editors may remove messages at will from their own talk pages. While we may prefer that comments be archived instead, policy does not prohibit users -including anonymous editors- from deleting messages from their own talk pages. The only kinds of talk page messages that cannot be removed (as per WP:BLANKING) are declined unblock requests (but only while blocks are still in effect), confirmed sockpuppet notices, or IP header templates (for unregistered editors) ... and these exceptions only exist to keep a user from potentially gaming the system. Thanks for your time. Your fellow admin, Kralizec! (talk) 19:42, 2 November 2008 (UTC)

FLCon

Because of the new fixed closure dates, I will not be able to officially close your Nobel list until then. However, I would say it is passable, so you can nominate your third list at the same time as everyone else. -- Scorpion ⁰⁴²² 00:17, 3 November 2008 (UTC)

And I've added your name to FLRC, so I guess it's official now. -- Scorpion ⁰⁴²² 00:21, 3 November 2008 (UTC)

You can find the closure instructions here. -- Scorpion ⁰⁴²² 14:58, 3 November 2008 (UTC)

Redirects

Greetings! I come a'botherin' you again with redirects that could use some deletion, seen here. This time it's a Bleach purge instead of a Naruto purge. Hooray and etc. Since it only took you a minute last time, I don't feel so bad about asking you this time. All have no valid targets on Wikipedia, are unlikely to ever have a valid target, and/or are excruciating unlikely search terms. Advanced thank yous. ~Snapper T o 00:46, 4 November 2008 (UTC)

WikiProject Films October 2008 Newsletter

The October 2008 issue of the Films WikiProject newsletter has been published. You may read the newsletter, change the format in which future issues will be delivered to you, or unsubscribe from this notification by following the link. If you have suggestions or comments related to the newsletter, please leave me a message on my talk page. Thank you and happy editing! Nehrams2020 (talk) 09:13, 4 November 2008 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Featured list removal candidates/List of Archbishops of Canterbury

Okies, I think I've got most of what you pointed out. Need some advice on where to put the notes about start dates being consecration dates, and end dates being death dates. I'm not really a FL writer, so I'm just kinda flying blind here! Thanks for the help! Ealdgyth - Talk 21:12, 4 November 2008 (UTC)

Okies, got a few more, I just cannot get the colspan thing to work. (Can you see why I don't usually work on lists?) Any help on that would be greatly appreciated. Ealdgyth - Talk 17:37, 5 November 2008 (UTC)

Thanks! Ealdgyth - Talk 20:33, 5 November 2008 (UTC)

The WPVG Newsletter (October 2008)

Newsletter delivery by xenobot 16:22, 5 November 2008 (UTC)

DYK for Annie Award for Best Animated Video Game

On 6 November, 2008, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Annie Award for Best Animated Video Game, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

Royal broil 15:49, 6 November 2008 (UTC)

Re: Triple crown awards

Going through the diffs is going to be a pain. Gary King (talk) 17:08, 6 November 2008 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Featured list candidates/List of Nobel Laureates in Literature

Have the image issues been resolved here yet? Dabomb87 (talk) 18:06, 8 November 2008 (UTC)

Talk:List of Bleach chapters

User Mcfaith1 has copyedited the List of Bleach chapters. He started a discussion asking what it needs before any kind of assessment or peer review. If you have free time, pay a look. Cheers.Tintor2 (talk) 00:41, 9 November 2008 (UTC)

?

You said "Did you bother to read the table and the general references" ... No I didn't and if you think the admins have time to search around to find a ref when its so easy to put it exactly on the relevant fact then you need some more empathy. Your hook has occupied more than average time of various people whos motives are to help you and to get your hook on the main page. Some forethought from you will assist you next time and save others less effort to help you. Thank you for the appreciation of the efforts I/we make. Victuallers (talk) 11:25, 9 November 2008 (UTC)

The 25 DYK Medal

		The 25 DYK Medal
		For contributing 25 articles, especially many lists, I hereby award you the 25 DYK Medal. Wear it with pride! Royal broil 05:06, 10 November 2008 (UTC)

Re: Images

You are right, I was just trying to improve the article. Accordingly, I find the tone of your comment on my talk page a little bit disturbing. Anyway...

What's wrong with Orhan Pamuk's picture, it is public domain.
What's wrong with Saramago's picture, it is creative commons.
What's wrong with Le Clegio's picture, it qualifies for fair use on the English-language Wikipedia.

Excuse me for not being the copyright expert that you seem to be. Unfortunately, I really do not know which of the three qualifications above discourage use of media and which ones are OK. To me they all sounded fine, and I just added these three pictures to the already existing entries. Observe further that the biographical articles to these people make use of exactly these images and of course they are in wiki commons. Tomeasy_{T C} 10:26, 8 November 2008 (UTC)

Naruto Uzumaki reception

Do you have any idea where I could find more reception information for the Naruto Uzumaki article? I would be happy to wade through data and text, I just do not know where to look, as it seems that we have already covered most of the legitimately recognized press sources who review anime and their characters... So, I figured it would be worth a shot to ask people, as the reception section of the article needs the most help. Thanks and cheers! Scapler (talk) 01:25, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

Oldboy Poster

Hi, since you seem to be one of the coordinators of the film WikiProject, I was wondering if you could lend your opinion on a discussion concerning which poster should be used for the article. Thank you.--CyberGhostface (talk) 18:43, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

FLCon

		The Sorta-Golden Black-rumped Flameback Award
		For outracing your opponents again and co-winning the second ever Featured list contest with the Annie Award for Best Animated Video Game, List of Nobel Laureates in Economics and List of Soul Eater chapters. What does the Black-rumped Flameback have to do with Featured Lists? Absolutely nothing, but you already have a Featured content barnstar. -- Scorpion ⁰⁴²² 20:37, 15 November 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, that does sound like a good idea, and I did try to include FFLs in the contest, but I decided not to. Some FFLs are in better shape than others so it might not be entirely fair. -- Scorpion ⁰⁴²² 22:16, 15 November 2008 (UTC)

Northern League (neo-Nazi)

In regards to your recent good-faith reversion of an edit to the above article, I should point out that it was originally made by me, having forgotten to sign in. I placed "race" in inverted commas because its biological basis is hotly disputed, and it is thus inappropriate to refer to it uncritically in the context of scientific investigation (especially in the context of "race science", which many would contend is an oxymoron). Similarly, I placed the word "scientist" in inverted commas both because Hans Gunther was a linguist by training and possessed no qualifications in any relevant nautral science, and because his approach to the subject matter would be very difficult to describe as "scientific" without a "pseudo-" prefix. I will shortly edit the article again, though in a slightly different manner which ought to present clearer and less contentious picture. I would value your feedback.FrFintonStack (talk) 04:18, 16 November 2008 (UTC)

Giganews

I am writing you concerning the article for Giganews. As you can see, the user at 203.87.209.110 / "Alex Birj" has been consistently defacing the page. It appears that you or a bot cleaned his most recent defacement, but he replaced it twice. This user also posted the same information before, but under the name "David Vogelpohl". Is there any further action that can be taken to prevent the defacement of the article, or prevent that user from repeatedly posting the same content? Junon (talk) 23:20, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

Black Mesa

The original Black Mesa article (Half Life) has around 4 times the volume of content than the corresponding portion of the merged article that it was redirected to earlier this year. I undid the redirect to restore the missing content - you undid my undo. Let's decide either to add the deleted content to the merged article (which would make it very long and unwieldy, but whatever), or to restore the original article. The original article was merged without consensus, with the "keepers" outnumbering the notability hawks by about 5 to 1 on the discussion page. Anyway, please let me know what you think. Regards, -Djnz00 —Preceding unsigned comment added by Djnz00 (talk • contribs) 19:15, 18 November 2008 (UTC)

Vandal on Love Hina

Not sure if I should do this here or not, but there has been several attempts from two anon ip's in the same range to "correct" the ages of one or more characters at Love Hina. I have trouble believing it is good faith after several edits, several reversions by me, and my adding extra text to the section AND hidden notes in the section to not change the ages without suitable references. I have worked hard to add a lot of sources to the article, and I have sourced this information that is being changed from the official books. Oh and they removed my reference in the last round of edits, which just shows they have either no desire to learn or are just being deliberately ignorant. Ip's are 210.70.185.20 and 210.70.185.253. Both Ip's have done nothing but edit the same info (mostly on this page, but also on a seperate page for the character being edited) Dandy Sephy (talk) 04:18, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

List of Nobel Laureates

I think we should aim for a FT with the six main Laureates pages. We have four done, I have the Physiology/Medicine one practically ready (it just needs an expanded lead), and the Peace Prize still has a ways to go. The editor who started work on that one hasn't done much on it lately, I started to do it, but I've been very busy as of late and haven't had the time, so so you could finish it if you like. As for the main article, it would have to be List of Nobel Laureates. I have proposed a reformatting of the page here, so feel free to chip in any opinions. -- Scorpion ⁰⁴²² 19:18, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

WP:FLRC

I think it's time to begin the archival of some of the FLRC's, some have clear consensus that were nominated almost a month ago. You or User:Dweller should get to them soon. Just a notice ;).--TRU_CO 22:15, 22 November 2008 (UTC)

No problem, I just found it odd that one of the FLRC's was nominated on October 26th, and it's November 23rd as of this message. Cheers.--TRU_CO 03:50, 23 November 2008 (UTC)

Signpost updated for November 17, 2008 and before.

Because the Signpost hasn't been sent in a while, to save space, I've condensed all seven issues that were not sent into this archive. Only the three issues from November are below.

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Fundraiser opens: Over $500,000 raised in first week	ArbCom elections: Nominations open
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You are receiving this message because you have signed up for the Signpost spamlist. If you wish to stop receiving these messages, simply remove your name from the list. Ralbot (talk) 10:46, 23 November 2008 (UTC)

List of countries

Hello,

There is a talk page consensus that featured list List of countries should be redirected to Lists of countries, for reasons given on that talk page - essentially, that it was a duplication of other lists and the other lists were better presented. There would, on principle, seem little point in sending what is now a redirect through WP:FLRC (though you are welcome to check my close of the discussion, and re-open or change it if you feel it was unfair). Could I suggest it be snowball removed from FL status? Thanks, Pfainuk talk 15:14, 23 November 2008 (UTC)

Thank you

The Barnstar | My RFA | Design by L'Aquatique

		The Mizu onna sango15 Barnstar
		Thank you to all who participated in my RFA- regardless of whether you supported or opposed, all feedback is important to me. I look forward to proving in the coming months that the trust placed in me by the community is not misplaced. —Mizu onna sango15^Hello!

Wikipedia:Featured list removal candidates/List of countries

Do you think this one might be speedily closeable? It already has merge consensus on the talk page, and I agree with a lot of the comments, so dragging the FLRC out for 2 weeks seems unnecessary. Depending on how many people comment quickly, this one might be closeable after a few days. However, the problem is that there is no process approvable for speedy delistings, maybe it's time to work up a "speedy delisting" criteria. Maybe:

If a consensus has been determined in another discussion (ie. afd, merge discussion, etc.)
If there is a copyright violation where its removal would ruin the quality of the page.
If it gains a large consensus quickly, and there are no attempts by anyone to address concerns, it can be speedily closed after a week.

Or something along those lines. -- Scorpion ⁰⁴²² 23:58, 23 November 2008 (UTC)

Yeah sounds good to me. It's doubtful that the criteria will be used at all (other than this time), but it doesn't hurt to have it. I'll start a discussion at WT:FLC. -- Scorpion ⁰⁴²² 14:35, 24 November 2008 (UTC)

What do you think? The lead still needs to be worked on, but the table (the hardest, most time-consuming part) is finished. I'll get to that within the next few days and hopefully have it at FLC this weekend. All that is left (table-formatting wise) is the Peace Prize. That one is going to be difficult, because most of the entries don't have the standard "for his..." rationale. Some don't even have any semblence of a reason (oddly enough, most of them are controversial ones like Kissinger and the Dalai Lama). Any ideas for that? -- Scorpion ⁰⁴²² 20:40, 25 November 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, we might as well give it a try. In regards to the Peace Prize, that solution would work for about 90% of the entries (although in some cases, the official description doesn't mention what they won the prize for. For example, Lester B. Pearson won for the Suez Crisis but that isn't mentioned in his Nobel profile) but there are some that don't have much of a description. For example, the organizations just have the year they were founded and others don't have anything (like Kissinger, Dalai Lama). We may have to dig through the Nobel site for citations for them. -- Scorpion ⁰⁴²² 23:48, 27 November 2008 (UTC)

Found a solution I'm going to add what I can to the descriptions now. -- Scorpion ⁰⁴²² 23:54, 27 November 2008 (UTC)

Bad redirects

Since Land of Fire was re-redirected, these links serve no purpose. Can you delete them? Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 04:16, 24 November 2008 (UTC)

Done. — sephiroth bcr ^(converse) 05:33, 25 November 2008 (UTC)

Thanks man. What about their discussion pages? Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 18:28, 25 November 2008 (UTC)

Popups

I mentioned this in an edit summary but... Anyway, your popups don't seem to be reverting to the intended version (ex. 1, 2). Thought you should know. ~Snapper T o 23:39, 27 November 2008 (UTC)

Thanksgiving

		Happy Thanksgiving!
		Happy Thanksgiving Sephiroth BCR! May God bless you and your family on this day! Scapler (talk) 00:14, 28 November 2008 (UTC)