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Am I getting a warning for disruptive editing after you undid my edit justifying it with "it does for me"?

If you have to warn me for disruptive editing, at least provide good reasons to undo my legitimately performed edit, instead of motivating it with "it does for me". What kind of motivation is that? Who are you? The ruler of the world? Seems pretty hypocritical to warn someone for something after performing the same exact thing. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.67.27.131 (talk) 12:33, 18 December 2020 (UTC)

You removed sourced text about right-wing political correctness because "It doesn't add anything informative to the article" - which is something I disagreed with so I restored it. At that point instead of using the talk page to discuss it you kept reverting even though two editors had restored it. That's disruptive. It's also the wording of one of the standard templates we give people who keep deleting text. Doug Weller talk 13:42, 18 December 2020 (UTC)
(Talk Page Stalker Ramblings; Second Edition; Volume 2; Page 156; Paragraph 3) Sounds redundant doesn't it? Kinda gets old telling people over and over again. I you make an edit and someone reverts it then take it to the talk page. Easy enough. Continuing to edit war serves no purpose. Most of the time the edits aren't worth it anyway. Everyone has an opinion. Go start a blog or something and then you can throw out all your views and opinions. If you haven't formed one about a topic like this by now then I don't see how what a Wikipedia article says is going to make that much of a difference. --ARoseWolf (Talk) 14:44, 18 December 2020 (UTC)
"Personally disagreeing" with a legitimate argument is not a legitimate argument, it is an extremely childish and useless beahvior which I wouldn't expect from an admin of Wikipedia (at least I hope so). My point was that providing a random quote which is appliable at the general context to a very specific and accusatory context is not a valid argument. What kind of "source" is that? Is an opinion a source just because someone important (and biased) said it? Seems like an archetypical appeal to authority to me.
If you wanted me to stop editing you could have simply argumented why I was mistaken, instead of childishly writing "it does for me" like a five year old would — Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.67.27.131 (talk) 14:54, 18 December 2020 (UTC)
Helped you out there with the indention's. Yeah, ranting about anything on Wikipedia is kinda childish in itself so. Look, it's a tough thing to realize but once you do and lose all reason to care about anything written here it gets better. Please take my advice and get out and get some sunshine if you can. It always helps me clear my head and come back ready and eager to do almost nothing. See how that works. :-) --ARoseWolf (Talk) 15:01, 18 December 2020 (UTC)
To add: the personal attacks on anyone here really just makes you look bad. Doug is not childish. You may not agree with him on his opinions or those of the article but he has told you how to clear that up. If you want to give a try then go to the talk page. Coming here to waste your time calling him childish kinda defeats your message a little. --ARoseWolf (Talk) 15:05, 18 December 2020 (UTC)
First off, he has not told me how to clear that up. He started with a "it does for me", undid my editing without motivation, like he was the boss or something. That is aggressiveness, not me providing an argument. And second, it makes me laugh that you accuse me of "wasting time" bantering on wikipedia when it's my first time here, and you've been bantering on this platform for who knows how much, and your motto is "First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win..." so I guess bantering is your specialty. And third, if you gotta be aggressive, at least don't be passive-aggressive. Makes you look even worse.
If you believe replying to an argument with something along the lines of "I'm right and you're wrong and that's it" like Doug did isn't childish, I guess you have to re-evaluate your positions. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.67.27.131 (talk) 15:11, 18 December 2020 (UTC)

(Talk Page Stalker Ramblings; Third Edition; Volume 3; Page 7; Paragraph 2; subsection iii) It's not that "[We're] right and you're wrong and that's it" - it's that other editors have followed the Wikipedia policies, and you haven't. Your excuse is that it's your first time here. Fair enough - learn from your mistakes. Instead of being passive-aggressive yourself, take this as an opportunity to learn how things are done, and roll with the punches, coming back a better editor. Chaheel Riens (talk) 15:21, 18 December 2020 (UTC)

Do the wikipedia policies say that you can reply to a motivated argument like "It is not informative because ..." with a "It does for me" and be perfectly right? I may not know well the policies but i'm pretty sure there's no such policy, and if there is I express my right to say it is crap. In an educated world, when someone proposes a thesis, you answer with a counter-argument. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.67.27.131 (talk) 15:26, 18 December 2020 (UTC)
Yeah, it does really: WP:BRD and WP:EW cover it. (Although I admit that BRD isn't policy, however EW is.) You made an edit that another editor disagreed with. Your edit summary said "...It doesn't add anything informative to the article", and another editor disagreed with "It does for me". Where is the ambiguity there? At this point you should have followed BRD and taken to the talk page to begin discussion, but instead you re-instated, and were reverted again, and again - that's the edit warring part. Chaheel Riens (talk) 15:35, 18 December 2020 (UTC)
Ok, let me break it down for you real simple like, IP, since it is your first time here. First, when he said "take it to the talk page", that is how he helped you. If you can't see that then you can't be helped so we will set that to the side for now. Second, me putting a quote on my user page about life experiences or any experience had here is completely different than going on another person's talk page and calling them a child, especially since it is your first time here and you know very little about what it takes to edit. I disagree with a lot of people and I have had seriously heated discussions in the past but I will and do come around and try to project some empathy on the individual, even if I don't really care about what is written. Third, if you want to continue editing here I have a piece of advice, in good faith, learn when to be aggressive and learn when to shut up and move on. Or don't and get perma-banned for personal attacks on others. --ARoseWolf (Talk) 15:40, 18 December 2020 (UTC)
@Chaheel Because I motivated why I didn't think it was informative, he didn't. That's a huge difference, don't you think? Imagine a world where every debate ends and synthesis is reached when someone says "no you're wrong and I'm right, without any argument whatsoever", would it work? Because that's basically what he did. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.67.27.131 (talk) 15:42, 18 December 2020 (UTC)
@ARoseWolf Says the one who intervened from the outside with passive-aggressive attacks. Can't you feel your hypocrisy?
I really appreciate all of you coming here to defend your friend Doug, but it baffles me that you won't admit he screwed up. Is deleting someone else's motivated edits without providing a motivation a standard practice here? That's how you reach consensus? Am I a martian? Am I expressing such difficult or incredibly wrong ideas that you find difficult to comprehend? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.67.27.131 (talk • contribs)
Hey now, If you don't want to take the advice given to you by three editors of different backgrounds and a varying range of time being here then that's on you. Remember you came here. I was already standing in the corner pretending to be a statue and eating all of Doug's cookies (The ones with the M&M's are delicious). --ARoseWolf (Talk) 15:55, 18 December 2020 (UTC)
No one agrees with you, either on the article or here. You removed sourced text. That removal was challenged and you just kept removing without discussion on the article talk page. Instead you came here and made WP:PA personal attacks and cast aspersions. Give it a rest. And where are the cookies? O3000 (talk)
If Wikipedia was solely about an individuals ideas or their ability to express them then you might have a case to argue. It isn't and you don't. And who said Doug is my friend? Never met the guy, seems decent though. Might would consider grabbing a beer with him if (a) he drinks and (b) we ever met in real life. Sorry Objective3000, I ate them all because I thought he said the Martians were invading. Those pesky Martians love M&M cookies. --ARoseWolf (Talk) 16:02, 18 December 2020 (UTC)
Opinions are used all the time in articles, and the two quotes (not one) are from notable people. One was "Alex Nowrasteh of the Cato Institute defined the right's own version of political correctness as "patriotic correctness"" and the other "Economist Paul Krugman, writes that "the big threat to our discourse is right-wing political correctness, which – unlike the liberal version – has lots of power and money behind it. And the goal is very much the kind of thing Orwell tried to convey with his notion of "Newspeak": to make it impossible to talk, and possibly even think, about ideas that challenge the established order."" How are those two quotes "Just citing a random quote which is anyways appliable to any form of political correctness, either from left or right?" --Doug Weller talk 16:07, 18 December 2020 (UTC)
Ooh now I get it, now I really understand why this platform is so biased. Essentially, you only allow people who are your friends or whose views are like yours to edit, as long as such edit is "sourced". Doesn't matter if the source is biased, an opinion, and justified with an appeal to authority. It doesn't even matter if the edit was argumented, as long as it is undone without any argument by someone on you side, well that's fair for you. In your perfect wikipedia-like world, everyone expresses your same opinions, and anyone who sees differently, even when is providing a thesis, is wrong by default, mocking, and aggressive. When such methodology is challenged, who's challenging is cast as the aggressor. Doesn't matter if his edit was deleted with a childish reason and if he was passively aggressively ridiculed before even having a chance to become aggressive, because he is the aggressor by default. You're such blind hypocrits. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.67.27.131 (talk) 16:10, 18 December 2020 (UTC)

It gets really tiresome indenting your edits to keep with the flow of the discussion. Try putting one more ":" than the previous comment for me, k? Thanks so much. It helps others follow along seamlessly. --ARoseWolf (Talk) 16:14, 18 December 2020 (UTC)

It cracks me up reading the bio in your profile, how you whine about receiving hate on Wikipedia, how you've been mistreated and blah blah blah. You entered a discussion without having anything to do with it, started off in a pissed off/passive aggressive way, don't you maybe think that it is your fault why people mistreat you? Do you think it is a useful and respectful approach to discussions, especially when you don't even have anything to do with it? I don't know you, but honestly and without evil intent, and even ignoring our not so civil discussion, I can clearly feel that what you dished out so far is pure hypocrisy. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.67.27.131 (talk) 16:29, 18 December 2020 (UTC)
There we go. Fixed it for you again. You can thank me later, or not, it's ok. And you are right, you don't know me. --ARoseWolf (Talk) 16:34, 18 December 2020 (UTC)
IP: “Who are you? The ruler of the world?” “extremely childish and useless behavior” “childishly writing” “like a five year old” “your friend Doug” “you find difficult to comprehend” “how you whine” “pure hypocrisy” “full of shit”
Do you not see a problem with the manner in which you present your “case”? Civility is one of the five pillars of Wikipedia. (And I feel slighted that you have yet to attack me with churlish insults.) O3000 (talk) 16:40, 18 December 2020 (UTC)
Admin note This appears to be an IP LTA in northern Italy that's been blocked many times, on a new IP. Acroterion (talk) 16:43, 18 December 2020 (UTC)
I know it was removed and rightfully so but I felt it needed a response. Did you really read my bio? I only ask because I never said I was mistreated here on Wikipedia. To quote it properly, I said "I have been mistreated and called vile and nasty things in my lifetime but the attacks I have witnessed here and the way in which they are conducted is beyond the most troubling." Thanks for proving my point. I appreciate it. Instead of finding a way to discuss your opinions on the subject in a constructive way, you decided to come to Doug's talk page and vomit your nonsense in a violently objectionable manner. As I said, I was just eating cookies in the corner but when I saw this I figured you needed some help and a little perspective. I wasn't even passive aggressive or "pissed off". I even passed on some advice that has helped me deal with the stresses in the past. Can't help everyone I guess. Is what it is. --ARoseWolf (Talk) 16:50, 18 December 2020 (UTC)
A couple of things..."all of you coming here". "to defend your friend Doug". As if we all got a secret summons? Dude, you're the one who edited an article that has 635 watchers and then posted on a page that has 970 watchers, so of course, someone or someones will respond. Secondly, this is not about defending some friend, it is about policy & guidelines. You are implying that everyone who has responded here is some sort of sycophant, blindly defending another editor because he is our friend. Lol, I do not consider Doug a friend, I consider him a colleague, the same way I consider anyone who edits Wikipedia in good faith a colleague.
Now, on to the matter of "it works for me"... 93.67.27.131, your edit summary that Doug was responding to said "What it the purpose of this paragraph? Just citing a random quote which is anyways appliable to any form of political correctness, either from left or right? It doesn't add anything informative to the article." So he answered your question with "it does for me". Why are you continuing to argue about his edit summary when he actually responded to your question? That you don't like his pithy answer is immaterial, he responded.
As to the matter of your section title - Am I getting a warning for disruptive editing after you undid my edit justifying it with "it does for me"?... Look at the timeline. His edit summary with his revert that you have spent all this time arguing about came in at 16:22, 17 December 2020‎. You reverted at 11:50, 18 December 2020‎, another editor reverted your edit at 12:02, 18 December 2020‎, you again changed the content at 12:14, 18 December 2020‎, your change was then reverted at 12:26, 18 December 2020‎. You didn't get the warning until 12:25, 18 December. After after you had changed the content twice. So. Yes. You were edit-warring. Doug did you a solid by giving you a warning and showing you the 3RR policy.
Aaaaand now I see you're blocked...oh well, you can still read these responses to your actions. Shearonink (talk) 16:54, 18 December 2020 (UTC)
Your talk page observers seem to be depleting the stock in your biscuit barrel. Anyway, biscuits are better than trolls. bonadea contributions talk 17:26, 18 December 2020 (UTC)
Meh, I took the liberty of picking off the M&M's on all of them. Now they are just chocolate chip cookies. --ARoseWolf (Talk) 17:28, 18 December 2020 (UTC)

Season's Greetings

Hello there! Shearonink (talk) wishes you & yours the very best of the season!

Whether you celebrate Christmas, Diwali, Hanukkah, Kwanzaa,
Festivus (for the rest of us!) or even the Saturnalia,
here's to:
hoping your holiday time is wonderful
and - especially -
that the New Year 2021 will be an improvement upon the old of 2020.
CHEERS!

Share these holiday wishes by adding {{subst:User:Shearonink/Holiday}} to your friends' talk pages.

(Sent: 06:26, 19 December 2020 (UTC))

Victims of Communism/ Ghodsee Coments

The Ghodsee and Sehon article in Aeon (2018, cited in the entry) criticizes the Black Book of Communism's data, without carrying out any data analysis. It mentions disagreements between some of the authors of the Black Book as though this discredits the calculations, although the numbers are still generally understood to be high. In fact, Ghodsee and Sehon state "quibbling about numbers is unseemly. What matters is that many, many people were killed." The entry does not use the source accurately. 

    Ghodsee and Sehon claim that conservative groups use the number of killings under communism to argue "two separable points: (1) a historical claim about people dying under communism that leads to (2) the conclusion that communism should be rejected as a political ideology." Ghodsee and Sehon then argue that there is no necessary connection between the deaths and the ideology. There are authors, such as Orwell, who argue there is a connection (coercive folk rise up bureaucracies in coercive systems) but I pass over them here. Ghodsee and Sehon commit Flew's 'true Scotsman fallacy" [1] in claiming that observed communist regimes are not indicative of the ideology. Thonotosassa (talk) 08:58, 19 December 2020 (UTC)
@Thonotosassa: this belongs on the article talk page, not my talk page. --Doug Weller talk 11:01, 19 December 2020 (UTC)

References

  1. ^ A.Flew, "Thinking About Thinking," 1975

"Cult" Terminology

Hi Doug,

We've both recently edited the "Cult" Wiki page, and seem to disagree about how to describe them: [1]. I'm not going to re-revert, because I get where you're coming from and I'm trying to wean myself off of editing controversial articles. I don't think that the version you reverted back to is referring to all religious groups as Cults, but I do see the term itself as inherently, deeply loaded. I tend to think that the word Cult is a pejorative that's lost any neutral authority. I don't think that there is any definition of Cult out there (other than the ancient Roman & Greek varieties) that doesn't outright insult the group in question. Sometimes I win these arguments on Wiki, sometimes I lose :). AnandaBliss (talk) 17:51, 19 December 2020 (UTC)

SPI case

Hi Doug. Hope you are well. For info, I've opened this SPI case as you were involved in closing a previous sock for the same user. Thank you. Lugnuts Fire Walk with Me 09:33, 22 December 2020 (UTC)

Seasons Greetings

Hoping your month is great — al-Shimoni (talk) 08:03, 23 December 2020 (UTC)

To tag or not to tag?

Hi - I'm doing SPI Clerk training, just wanted to swing something past you without treading on your toes. You CU blocked Iamgood40 as a sock of Rage476 a couple of weeks back. Another sock appeared (Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Rage476), which has been blocked and tagged; wondered if you wanted me to tag Iamgood40 for the record. Cheers GirthSummit (blether) 15:02, 23 December 2020 (UTC)

Girth Summit, would you tag them all please? I'm behind in loggng my CU work I'm afraid. Thanks. Doug Weller talk 16:36, 23 December 2020 (UTC)
Doug Weller, sure, I'll get onto it shortly. Cheers GirthSummit (blether) 16:38, 23 December 2020 (UTC)

Unsourced grammatical changes

Hi, Doug, there's a senior editor running around making grammatical changes and, when asked to back his latest up with a reference to the Chicago Manual of Style, defends himself with gobbledegook. It's a small point but is there a forum in which to discuss such conduct? Sweetpool50 (talk) 00:04, 24 December 2020 (UTC)

Edit warring

user:Binksternet is edit warring and has violated the 3RR. He is also removing sourced content--2601:3C5:8200:97E0:B03E:E0D7:FE7C:7A1B (talk) 20:01, 24 December 2020 (UTC)

(talk page stalker)I think you need to be more careful about your charges. Binksternet made an edit, which you reverted. I see two reverts by Binksternet and three by you today. You also misrepresented Binksternet's first edit by claiming that it removed sourced material. - Donald Albury 21:01, 24 December 2020 (UTC)
But he did remove sourced material. College rock is sourced as being jangle pop.--2601:3C5:8200:97E0:793A:1031:8357:5838 (talk) 21:04, 24 December 2020 (UTC)
This discussion does not belong on Doug's talk page. I will respond to your comments on your talk page, User talk:2601:3C5:8200:97E0:793A:1031:8357:5838. - Donald Albury 01:57, 25 December 2020 (UTC)

Inquiry

Thank you for informing me about the restrictions, regarding the Arab-Israeli conflict articles. I'm just wondering, did I edit anything I wasn't supposed to? I'm pretty sure I was very careful and only posted an edit request on the article's talk page without changing anything that has to do with the main article. Ziad Rashad (talk) 04:32, 25 December 2020 (UTC)

Now for something completely somewhat different...

Yo Ho Ho

GenQuest "scribble" 04:40, 25 December 2020 (UTC) is wishing a foaming mug of Seasons Greetings! Whether you celebrate your hemisphere's Solstice or Christmas, Diwali, Hogmanay, Hanukkah, Lenaia, Festivus or even the Saturnalia, this is a special time of year for almost everyone!

Spread the holiday cheer by adding {{subst:User:WereSpielChequers/Dec20}} to your friends' talk pages.

Natalis soli invicto!

Natalis soli invicto!
Wishing you and yours a Happy Holiday Season, from the horse and bishop person. May the year ahead be productive and distraction-free. Ealdgyth (talk) 14:38, 25 December 2020 (UTC)

Happy holidays

Luminarias
Luminarias
 Happy Holidays!

Hi Doug Weller, May your holidays be merry and bright,
and hope you have a happy and healthy 2021

Netherzone (talk) 14:49, 25 December 2020 (UTC)

Merry Christmas !

---Wikaviani (talk) (contribs) is wishing you a Merry Christmas!

This greeting (and season) promotes WikiLove and hopefully this note has made your day a little better. Spread the WikiLove by wishing another user a Merry Christmas, whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past, a good friend, or just some random person. Happy New Year!

Spread the Christmas cheer by adding {{subst:Xmas3}} to their talk page with a friendly message.

---Wikaviani (talk) (contribs) 15:49, 25 December 2020 (UTC)

Merry Christmas!

Merry Christmas and a Prosperous 2021!

Hello Doug Weller, may you be surrounded by peace, success and happiness on this seasonal occasion. Spread the WikiLove by wishing another user a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year, whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past, a good friend, or just some random person. Sending you heartfelt and warm greetings for Christmas and New Year 2021.
Happy editing,
Fylindfotberserk (talk) 07:24, 24 December 2020 (UTC)

Spread the love by adding {{subst:Seasonal Greetings}} to other user talk pages.

Merry Christmas woug! Weeabo-kun2198 (talk) 17:11, 25 December 2020 (UTC)

A good faith editor who may be a problem

The editor who made this edit has been quite busy creating much work for others, but thankfully has not crossed the 500 edit mark yet!

I've just left copious messages on their Talk, but I wonder if it might be better if some bot reverted everything they have done in the realm of finding citations. A bunch of inapt refs is worse than multiple instances of "citation needed", since it gives the impression that a statement is supported and can be trusted. Reviewing their work involves diving into a bunch of disparate sources, plus the usual mechanics of reversion. I'd prefer not to be the one to do this massive cleanup.

I wish somebody had determined the editor's level of ability before turning them loose. If this person has interests, they should have been sounded out on what they like to read about before letting them take pot luck with whatever articles need citations. I'd love to hear your feedback.--Quisqualis (talk) 00:35, 28 December 2020 (UTC)


The Signpost: 28 December 2020

* Read this Signpost in full * Single-page * Unsubscribe * MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 04:25, 28 December 2020 (UTC)

December 2020

As a matter of fact, Talk pages are expressly for ipen discussion and to deny this priveledge to editors goes against common sense and established Wikipedia precedent. If you do not appreciate other intelligent people freely and openly expressing views contrary to your own, you should leave the Wilipedia project. This is an Open Encyclopedia. It is not a grounds for censorship or totalitarian thought suppression. Despite your personal political beliefs, we are attempting to keep a neutral, unbiased encyclopedia. You have been reminded. Haerdt (talk) 04:03, 28 December 2020 (UTC)

(talk page watcher) As a matter of fact, talk pages are not for freely and openly expressing views. Rather, they are for discussing improvements to the article. Wikipedia is not a platform for free speech, it is a project to build an encyclopedia. NorthBySouthBaranof (talk) 04:38, 28 December 2020 (UTC)
Wikipedia is not a democracy. You have no "civil liberty" here. Wikipedia is nothing but an encyclopedia. Any community you may find in this place arises for the furtherance of the goals of Wikipedia to create an international, crowd-sourced encyclopedia. It is not social media, either. People who seek attention here will find Wikipedia a frustrating experience.
If Wikipedia ever tolerated or encouraged open discussion on talk pages, the inadvisability of such a practice surely hastened its termination. There is a precedent of hanging horse thieves in the US, but it does not mean we must continue to do so today.--Quisqualis (talk) 04:52, 28 December 2020 (UTC)

Reported

You’ve been reported,. I may not be following the exact coding procedure. Excuse me. I understand you are a senior editor and you may think you have some clout, but I do not appreciate the obnoxious approach you took to censoring my content. Don’t be a fascist. The preservation of knowledge neutrally and with a high degree of fairness is important. Be kind.

Happy new year. Haerdt (talk) 02:28, 31 December 2020 (UTC)

Adding source/refs for new information on Dating of Mahabharata

Have you read/listened to the evidence and research Nilesh Oak has put together around dating of Mahabharata and Ramayana ? Or, are you just going by him being a chemical engineer and not an academic ? — Preceding unsigned comment added by S raghu20 (talk • contribs) 16:07, 30 December 2020 (UTC)

@S raghu20: I'm going by our policies and guidelines, read WP:VERIFY and WP:RS and if you still think he's a reliable source challenge me at WP:RSN - which is the appropriate noticeboard. Doug Weller talk 16:11, 30 December 2020 (UTC)

@S raghu20 — Challenge him. Haerdt (talk) 02:29, 31 December 2020 (UTC)

Happy New Year, Doug Weller!

Happy New Year!

Doug Weller,
Have a prosperous, productive and enjoyable New Year, and thanks for your contributions to Wikipedia.
Fylindfotberserk (talk) 07:59, 31 December 2020 (UTC)

   Send New Year cheer by adding {{subst:Happy New Year fireworks}} to user talk pages.

Lack of Good Faith

Your words and actions as well as your attitude towards me over the past 24 hours demonstrate you lack good faith, kindness, and good will towards people of dispositions other than your own. Check yourself. This is my only warning to you. I am only a messenger. Good luck. Haerdt (talk) 12:02, 31 December 2020 (UTC)

Happy New Year, Doug Weller!

Happy New Year!

Doug Weller,
Have a prosperous, productive and enjoyable New Year, and thanks for your contributions to Wikipedia.
MRRaja001 (talk) 02:28, 1 January 2021 (UTC)

   Send New Year cheer by adding {{subst:Happy New Year fireworks}} to user talk pages.


God Jul och Gott Nytt År!

Gråbergs Gråa Sång is wishing you the season's greetings.
Whether you celebrate your hemisphere's solstice or Christmas,
Diwali, Hogmanay, Hanukkah, Lenaia, Festivus,
or the Saturnalia,
this is a special time of year for (almost) everyone.

Yo Ho Ho

— al-Shimoni (talk) is wishing you Seasons Greetings! Whether you celebrate your hemisphere's Solstice or Christmas, Diwali, Hogmanay, Hanukkah, Lenaia, Festivus or even the Saturnalia, this is a special time of year for almost everyone!

Spread the holiday cheer by adding {{subst:User:WereSpielChequers/Dec16a}}~~~~ to your friends' talk pages.

Yo Ho Ho

Donner60 (talk) is wishing a foaming mug of Seasons Greetings! Whether you celebrate your hemisphere's Solstice or Christmas, Diwali, Hogmanay, Hanukkah, Lenaia, Festivus or even the Saturnalia, this is a special time of year for almost everyone!

Spread the holiday cheer by adding {{subst:User:WereSpielChequers/Dec20}} to your friends' talk pages.

A Joyous Yuletide to You!


JACKINTHEBOX • TALK is wishing you a Merry Christmas! This greeting (and season) promotes WikiLove and hopefully this note has made your day a little better. Spread the WikiLove by wishing another user a Merry Christmas, whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past, a good friend, or just some random person. Happy New Year!

Spread the cheer by adding {{subst:Xmas2}} to their talk page with a friendly message.

Yo Ho Ho

M.Bitton (talk) is wishing a foaming mug of Seasons Greetings! Whether you celebrate your hemisphere's Solstice or Christmas, Diwali, Hogmanay, Hanukkah, Lenaia, Festivus or even the Saturnalia, this is a special time of year for almost everyone!

Spread the holiday cheer by adding {{subst:User:WereSpielChequers/Dec20}} to your friends' talk pages.

Happy New Year

{{User:TimothyBlue/Cards/Happy New Yea== Continued reversions with IP editor ==

Hey Doug. You went back-and-forth a couple times with an IP user over at The New American, and a similar thing is happening at Project Syndicate. I've continued that and left a couple notices on their talk page (which I assume they're not looking at).

I'm not really sure what the next step is here, and I'm unsure whether my reverts are productive. Do you have any suggestions for next steps? Is there a usual protocol for persistent IP editors?

Jlevi (talk) 14:01, 3 January 2021 (UTC)

@Jlevi: just the usual, WP:ANI or WP:AIV depending on which seems most sensible. And of course warnings. If the IP continues let me know if I don't do something myself. Doug Weller talk 16:31, 3 January 2021 (UTC)

Number of the beast

I'm not sure that this edit is really an improvement, as that wording implied that the nonsense fringe view has more general support. I have updated it to reflect the source, indicating that it is the view of some fundamentalist Christian groups (and some in this context reflects the actual case).--Jeffro77 (talk) 06:53, 2 January 2021 (UTC)

@Jeffro77: thanks, that's much better than my edit. Doug Weller talk 16:51, 3 January 2021 (UTC)

Request for Guidance

Hi Doug - you tend to follow/maintain several of the pages and categories that I have spent some time editing over the past year. Watching your edits/reverts and how you handle things has taught me a lot about working on Wikipedia. Lately, I've done a little bit of editing on a specific page and I've run into another editor who there has been some conflict with. I was hoping you might be willing to look at the situation and give me some guidance on handling it. (And if I'm handling it wrong, I'm open to that feedback.) Specifically, it's the cast list on The_Chosen_(TV_series) page. The problem (IMO) is that the cast list is being based on inclusion of an upcoming season that has not happened yet. It's only in production. The other editor is including information that does not have a verifiable source (as far as I can tell), and is basing this on their own OR. Every edit to change this, and he/she steps in and reverts it back. This page is probably outside of the usual places you work on, but I'm looking for some guidance from an experienced editor as I want to get better as an editor, which is why I asked you. Thanks in advance for any assistance/feedback/coaching/whatever. Butlerblog (talk) 18:30, 1 January 2021 (UTC)

@Butlerblog: sorry I didn't respond directly and sooner. Warnings and advice are the way to start - we've both given those. Tagging articles with problems and discussing them on the talk page is also a good idea. Failing that you have few choices - you could start a dispute resolution discussion at WP:DRN if they were likely to respond, otherwise you'd just have to go to WP:ANI. Always be civil and helpful. Doug Weller talk 16:58, 3 January 2021 (UTC)
No problem! Thanks for the advice and feedback. It's a newer editor (I think they've only been around since May), so I'll try to encourage them in the right direction before going to dispute resolution. Butlerblog (talk) 01:04, 4 January 2021 (UTC)

Casting aspersions

Hi Doug. Could you please have a word with IbnTashfin97 who's been edit warring for quite some time, especially on the Almohad Caliphate article (reverting multiple editors), and is now casting aspersions[2][3]. Thanks. M.Bitton (talk) 17:41, 4 January 2021 (UTC)

Arab Slave Trade

Hey, Doug. I was wondering if you could take a look at the talk page for "Arab Slave Trade" (Talk:Arab_slave_trade). A new user has made a controversial proposal to turn the article into a disambiguation to a series articles they've created, named based on geographic areas followed by "slave trade", with the articles treating these as terms used in scholarship. These are novel concepts not actually treated as singular concepts in reliable sources, despite the way the introduction of the articles they wrote asserting that these are terms in common use. The editor proposed it, by their own admission, because he didn't like the Arab ethnicity being associated with the term "slave trade", and named the articles based on the example of "Transatlantic slave trade". It was implemented with just the discussion of four users, with three of them being regular editors, who quite frankly... Should know better. I'm sorry, but I think this is a major violation of Wiki policies on OR, neologisms, and WP:COMMONNAME, and (based on what I've seen) WP:POVFORK. Your opinion would be invaluable, if you can spare a few minutes to look at the situation. Symmachus Auxiliarus (talk) 21:44, 4 January 2021 (UTC)

Administrators' newsletter – January 2021

News and updates for administrators from the past month (December 2020).

Guideline and policy news

Technical news

Arbitration

Sent by MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 00:07, 5 January 2021 (UTC)

You’re not a sock, you’re a napkin

Your words and actions as well as your attitude towards me over the past 24 hours demonstrate you lack good faith, kindness, and good will towards people of dispositions other than your own. Check yourself. This is my only warning to you. I am only a messenger. Good luck. Haerdt (talk) 12:08, 31 December 2020 (UTC)

Haerdt, this, technically, counts as the second time so can you still say you are only giving one warning? Also, we see the message so we know you are the messenger. That goes without saying. Let's just hope the one you are messaging for, as you indicate it is someone different, is a bit more intellectually stimulating or at least makes a great pot of coffee. Peace to you for a prosperous new year. --ARoseWolf (Talk) 16:18, 5 January 2021 (UTC)

Would you be willing to offer some interaction advice?

Doug, I noticed that you had worked with Conan The Librarian here[[4]]. Would you be willing to help moderate some of the discussion at the parent Douglas Murray (author) article? A relatively new editor (acting in good faith) is trying to make article updates. I'm concerned that a number of their edits have issues but I haven't been able to convince them to pause the edits and collaborate on the talk page. I understand they feel my intent is simple obstruction and I am frustrated that they are moving forward when consensus isn't clear. Still, I think they are acting in good faith. Thus I think we have a blend of 3 issues and I'm hoping you can help balance them out. Issue 1, I may be wrong about all of my sourcing concerns and feeling that consensus isn't established. Issue 2, they may be incorrect in feeling consensus is there. Issue 3, they feel I'm only trying to obstruct and thus my concerns/views can be ignored. Anyway, this is not an ANI level issue, rather having a parent step in and help the squabbling kids get along could be helpful. Thanks for you time. Springee (talk) 15:43, 5 January 2021 (UTC)

I noticed that you had replied to the talk page of that article. If that makes the above request not viable I understand. Springee (talk) 16:30, 5 January 2021 (UTC)
@Springee: I was going to tell you that I also reverted this new editor at that article. So all I can do is comment again. Doug Weller talk 16:49, 5 January 2021 (UTC)
I read Springee's request to be referring to another inexperienced editor (the one still making all the changes despite objections and lacking consensus), so the point may have been missed, or I misread the request here. Anyway I've responded on the talk page to Doug's criticism which I think is misdirected - though I acknowledge I (as one of the squabbling kids) may have mis-stepped in frustration a couple of times and continue to learn from the exchanges there.Conan The Librarian (talk) 22:18, 5 January 2021 (UTC)
Conan The Librarian, I'm still learning too. Editing/creating here has a way of tearing you down. The reality is that there are a lot of dark and mean spirited people out there. The same can be said for here. But, for the most part, everyone here is just focused on what their intended purpose is and I think sometimes certain editors just get trampled by that process rather than it being intentional. Regardless, keep doing what you do. --ARoseWolf (Talk) 16:02, 6 January 2021 (UTC)
Thank you, I appreciate that. One of the reasons I've tried not to get too engaged (apart from avoiding edit-warring) are for the spirit-sapping reasons you've suggested, and are partly why I respect Springee's patient efforts with the issue at hand. Conan The Librarian (talk) 16:26, 6 January 2021 (UTC)

hi

I did not remove anything from Secession in the United States.I added two sections. Check once. Thank— Preceding unsigned comment added by Dasaotem (talk • contribs) 19:46, 10 December 2020 (UTC)

Keep running you selective blog as you wish!

I get it dont state facts certain admins dont like! I get or they will get there fellow bloggers to gang yup on you! IM done I wont bother again! Good luck with lifes work and great achievement! This is why people dont trust wiki any more and dont donate! I dont care about your blog! I wont bother wasting my time try to get facts past bigots!--Cynthia BrownSmyth (talk) 08:23, 8 January 2021 (UTC)

You run a blog, Doug? ;-)--ARoseWolf (Talk) 15:09, 8 January 2021 (UTC)

Georgia US Senate candidates

Hi Doug Weller, can you explain why you have extended confirmed protected the articles of the Senate election candidates in Georgia? Cheers. Onetwothreeip (talk) 01:18, 5 January 2021 (UTC)

I've done it under WP:ARBAPDS - it's just for a short period to avoid attempts to influence the elections through our articles. WP:BLP also applies. It's not unusual, we've done it to a number of articles in the past few months. Doug Weller talk 10:18, 5 January 2021 (UTC)
Thanks for getting back to me. I can't see anything there about protecting pages, but are you relying on Wikipedia:Arbitration Committee/Discretionary sanctions#Page restrictions? Onetwothreeip (talk) 10:51, 5 January 2021 (UTC)
Re-pinging. Onetwothreeip (talk) 07:14, 7 January 2021 (UTC)
Nope. I'm relying on common sense and IAR in an effort to make sure that our articles aren't used to affect the election. I've now removed it. There will always be cases where preemptive protection is necessary. Doug Weller talk 11:43, 7 January 2021 (UTC)
Hi Doug Weller, briefly what would that criteria be for you? Onetwothreeip (talk) 20:44, 11 January 2021 (UTC)

Allegations of defamation

Hi. You made allegations that my recents on the article "Coalition against Genocide" was defamatory. However, I don't really see the basis for this claim. I made sure I followed the neutral point of view guidelines and specifically made clear that the allegation were made by specific individual organizations and writers. Also, You claimed that I used unreliable sources. Which ones are you specifically referring to. The report made by the Hindu American Foundation is pretty extensive and contains information that cannot simply be brushed aside. Additionally, there is a criticism section in the Hindu American Foundation with allegations made by the coalition against genocide. Krao212 (talk) 18:26, 13 January 2021 (UTC)

Krao212 Hello. Whether the information you put in the article is true or not is not the primary issue with its inclusion. Wikipedia has a strict rule on what can be included in an article. Anything that can not be confirmed by reliable sources that are independent of the subject must not be included. I have read what you had included and the sources you provided. The information would be considered defamatory and the sources you used to claim this are closely tied to the subject matter. That is what we call a primary source. We need secondary sources that are independent that will verify the information provided before it can be included. --ARoseWolf (Talk) 18:52, 13 January 2021 (UTC)

Is this notable?

Doug,

I'm concerned about the notability of this article subject. Take a look and give me your best judgement. I'm not seeing reliable sources and doing a BEFORE search doesn't turn up anything further. --ARoseWolf (Talk) 21:33, 13 January 2021 (UTC)

Email

Hello, Doug Weller. Please check your email; you've got mail!
It may take a few minutes from the time the email is sent for it to show up in your inbox. You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{You've got mail}} or {{ygm}} template.

FDW777 (talk) 19:52, 14 January 2021 (UTC)

Photograph on RSBN's Wikipedia Page

Hello,

Forgive my lack of communication, or poor communication, as I am still figuring out how to edit Wikipedia. The image on Right Side Broadcasting Network's Wikipedia page called "Libby Kayleigh Interview jpg." was flagged for copyright, so I wanted to clear things up regarding that.

I work for Right Side Broadcasting and was asked by the owner to update their Wikipedia. The image that I used was not taken by me, but I had permission from the owner to use it in my Wikipedia edit. However, if you prefer me to say that the image was not mine and to cite it as such, I will be more than happy to do so.

Look forward to hearing from you soon,

Alex — Preceding unsigned comment added by Editor Alex2021 (talk • contribs) 13:13, 18 January 2021 (UTC)

Nomination of Black Egyptian hypothesis for deletion

A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Black Egyptian hypothesis is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Black Egyptian hypothesis until a consensus is reached. You have been involved in the Ancient Egyptian race controversy since the beginning - please could you lend a hand if you have the time? Wdford (talk) 10:24, 20 January 2021 (UTC)

FinishedCycle

You're already aware of this editor, siince you nominated their Draft:List of Jewish Communists for deletion. Take a look at the evidence of other problematic edits on my talk page here. Liz also deleted several of their edits. Beyond My Ken (talk) 04:37, 21 January 2021 (UTC)

Ah, I see that the IP who posted on my page has posted here as well. I added some info to it on my TP. Beyond My Ken (talk) 04:38, 21 January 2021 (UTC)

Bill Ayers

What is the nature of the protection on the Bill Ayers article? What brought it on? I'm not outraged; I'm trying to understand what is going on as this is an article that I have made minor edit(s) on. I did not find any discussion protection on the 'Talk' page. TIA. Seki1949 (talk) 22:23, 20 January 2021 (UTC)

@Seli1949: it's semi-protection, "Semi-protected pages cannot be edited by unregistered users (IP addresses), as well as accounts that are not autoconfirmed (accounts that are at least four days old and have made at least ten edits to Wikipedia) or confirmed.". Discussions rarely take place on talk pages for this, they are either requested at WP:RPP or added at the discretion of Administrators. Doug Weller talk 09:26, 21 January 2021 (UTC)

FinishedCycle

After seeing the user's contributions, (like this, this, and this), I am very tempted to just indef them as NOTHERE/NONAZIS. What do you think? Sro23 (talk) 04:55, 18 January 2021 (UTC)

Thanks for doing the blocking. I'm sure we can expect incoming complaints of "censorship"...Sro23 (talk) 15:17, 21 January 2021 (UTC)

It looks like the user FinishedCycle trying to push the Jewish Bolshevism conspiracy theory and that the Nazis are left wing

https://wiki.riteme.site/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Miscellany_for_deletion/Draft:List_of_Jewish_Communists

https://wiki.riteme.site/w/index.php?title=1935_Free_City_of_Danzig_parliamentary_election&diff=1001735366&oldid=997587367

And what somebody else said about this user,

(Confusing Israel's cause with American Jewry in general is a common mistake among antisemites) https://wiki.riteme.site/w/index.php?title=Military_history_of_Jewish_Americans&diff=989293926&oldid=989242367


They also did this edit https://wiki.riteme.site/w/index.php?title=Georgy_Arbatov&diff=1001684192&oldid=1001017733.78.97.16.58

78.97.16.58 (talk) 04:23, 21 January 2021 (UTC)

Clearly, just because someone may have Jewish heritage that does not make them a Jew. I considered my grandmother a Jew. She read us the Torah every day and maintained most, if not all, of the rituals and ceremonies found there. Her mother was a Jew who escaped Germany at the beginning of World War 2. My great-grandfather did not make it out of Germany and reportedly died in a work camp outside Munich. I am not a Jew. I have Jewish heritage. I identify more as Cherokee and that is where I am a registered citizen. Still, I do not call myself Cherokee, only that I have Cherokee ancestry and identify more with that ancestry. None of my beliefs should be misconstrued as necessarily beliefs of either my Cherokee or Jewish ancestors. That is what makes lists like these problematic. It's not like a list of Jewish baseball or football players. There is a difference between historical Jewish beliefs and simply being a Jew because your ancestors came from Israel or that region. The same can be said for the Cherokee. There is a difference in historical Cherokee beliefs and being a Cherokee because your ancestors were Cherokee. --ARoseWolf 16:05, 21 January 2021 (UTC)

Fascism

The Fascism article is completely biased to the point that Fascism is only a Right-wing thing. By reading definitions of Fascism on other sites, it is clearly not JUST right wing. It is a type of governmental system that can be applied to any political position. To not call Communism Fascism is obviously not accurate. Natzi Germany was Socalist, not right-wing.

Left leaning editors are in danger of turning Wikipedia into a nitch sight if they are allowed to twist the truth. If that is what Wikipedia wants to become, so be it. It will not be used by half the population, and half the schools in the country. I have found this bias clearly written in many articles. And when I edit them to be more center and accurate, my edits are removed.

I don't know who the "powers that be" are at W, but they need to make a decision if they want to give people complete and unfiltered information, or if they want to be a left-wing instrument of the Fascist Woke Cancel Culture.

As a former and long time donor, I won't donate any more until I begin to see some balance back in their articles. There are MANY online encyclopedias, and it's not hard to find and recommend another one that is fairer.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/fascism

https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/fascism

https://www.britannica.com/topic/fascism

In Poland the anti-Semitic Falanga, led by Boleslaw Piasecki, was influential but was unable to overthrow the conservative regime of Józef Piłsudski. Vihtori Kosola’s Lapua Movement in Finland nearly staged a coup in 1932 but was checked by conservatives backed by the army.

The Arrow Cross Party (Nyilaskeresztes Párt) in Hungary, led by Ferenc Szálasi, was suppressed by the conservative regime of Miklós Horthy until 1944, when Szálasi was made a puppet ruler under the German occupation.

Although fascist parties and movements differed significantly from one another, they had many characteristics in common, including extreme militaristic nationalism, contempt for electoral democracy and political and cultural liberalism, a belief in natural social hierarchy and the rule of elites, and the desire to create a Volksgemeinschaft (German: “people’s community”), in which individual interests would be subordinated to the good of the nation. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jstanzey (talk • contribs) 17:03, 21 January 2021 (UTC)

(talk page gnome) Maybe helpful would be to read on National Socialism that other than by name has little to do with other forms of socialism (i.e. Marxist), —PaleoNeonate – 19:41, 22 January 2021 (UTC)
@Jstanzey: the Nazis were capitalists. See for example Krupp#World War II and this: The right needs to stop falsely claiming that the Nazis were socialists The Democratic Republic of Korea is a dictatorship. Doug Weller talk 16:28, 23 January 2021 (UTC)
@Jstanzey: - if you want to change an article, use its talk page. I don't need more nonsense on my talk page, or insults. Doug Weller talk 17:21, 23 January 2021 (UTC)

WikiIslam

I'm not understanding your revert here. Whether Sina founded FFI is not in dispute. But how does the fact Person A founded Organization X (FFI) prove that he also founded Organization Y (WikiIslam)? Snuish2 (talk) 18:50, 23 January 2021 (UTC)

Books & Bytes - Issue 42

The Wikipedia Library

Books & Bytes
Issue 42, November – December 2020

  • New EBSCO collections now available
  • 1Lib1Ref 2021 underway
  • Library Card input requested
  • Libraries love Wikimedia, too!

Read the full newsletter

Sent by MediaWiki message delivery on behalf of The Wikipedia Library team --14:00, 25 January 2021 (UTC)

Looks like WP:BLPSELFPUB but ...

Hi, I know that you know how to handle cases where a person edits and states that he is the subject of the article, so I ask you to glance at this talk page thread and see whether an administrator is needed. Peter Gulutzan (talk) 21:22, 28 January 2021 (UTC)

On second thought, I cancel this request. Now that I see the accusations are getting a bit tetchy, I will take this to WP:ANI instead. Peter Gulutzan (talk) 22:44, 28 January 2021 (UTC)

Help needed - third opinion, admin/op attention - dispute, unusual behavior / harrassment - general advice

Hello Doug, I hope I'm doing this right.

The last few days have been quite - how to put it - something, and I think I need some consultation from third party users and/or someone "higher up". I'll try to keep it as short and accurate as possible, but it is my view of course. I'd like your general advisement, and whether I should file reports and/or appeal, and/or request for comments/third opinion to a larger audience.

I'm experiencing quite unusual/suspect behavior from select users, and I would even call it harassment. I feel like I'm willfully being singled out, threatened with bans and other disciplinary sanctions, and feel intimidated. I also feel that these users expect me to do everything within a few hours, if not more or less immediately. I have free-time, but not that much. Right now being on Wikipedia is basically like a 60-hour-a-week job for me, in the sense of how much I need to deal with at this pace (today I've dealt with this almost non-stop the last 9 hours). I feel that every time I make a good point, a good argument and or demonstrate (their) fallacies, then I'm only being retaliated against with how I (allegedly) violate policies or violate my subject-ban. In my honest view, I get little-to-no fair and reasonable counter-arguments. I feel that if I step out of line by a nanometer I get a knife to my throat.

I also want to say that I am intending to contribute on non-controversial/less-heated subjects (and have done so, actually), but in line with what I said above, this right now is like a 60-hour job, and I don't want to miss out/be blocked out from the section I started. I fear some of the users in question want it gone ASAP because they don't like it, and especially my participation too.

The last few days, pretty much at the time when you posted that notice on my talk page or so, I wrote on M. Greene's talk page, and contested (and wanted to discuss), just like multiple other people on the talk page, whether it's fair to label M. Greene as a "conspiracy theorist". That was not met with warm welcomes, and I find that the select (opposing) users in question were (and are) overly aggressive, unfair, actively seek the slightest mistake I (could) make and are (somewhat) stonewalling me. It has been my concern for a long time that Wikipedia uses the label "conspiracy theory" (like most other people and institutions) as if everything was perfectly fine with the term/label, when there's everything wrong with it. There's nothing new in that. This is a genuine concern of mine, and I have the best of intentions.

The section on the M. Greene talk page where I posted my most - if I absolutely have to say so myself - hardhitting and difficult-to-get-around-points, suddenly got closed with little-to-no response or argumentation in that section. Instead an ANI was filed (link is from archive), and I was singled out and the users in question speculated that there was Qanon mob wave incoming (a conspiracy theory, you might say, ironically). That ANI got closed real fast too, pretty much as soon as I posted my side of the dispute and provided a few arguments/comments. Allegedly, suddenly the "disruption", i.e. my arguments in the section on the talk page for M. Greene, was "gone" (time diff. between opening that ANI and closing the section on M. Greene is 5 hours and 10 minutes) and that was apparently enough for the ANI post itself to become closed. Obviously the "disruptions" stop when the section is closed. I post on the M. Greene talk page, which gets closed, then I respond on the ANI section as per insinuating request, which also get closed. It's difficult to stay in place when the very sections I'm in gets closed. After that, which is today, I woke up to a ban on editing about post-1993 US politics. I'm considering appealing this ban, since I don't think there's sufficient reason. However, I will abide by the sanction while it's there, to my best of abilities. Today I've also been confronted with several comments/confrontations on my own talk page, e.g. statements that say my "advocacy on WP is not successful" and accusations of forumshopping and comments like "It does not matter if your concern is genuine", and have to explain myself and give my personal opinions on M. Greene (as if that mattered). My account is being labelled as a single-purpose account (ANI post) even when there's, in my opinion, evidence to the contrary.

I feel I'm being outright assaulted for the slightest minor error I make, them actively surveiling me to the extreme, while other users can lavishly engage in ad hominem arguments and violations of policies without warning or reprimands like I'm subjected to. Now, I'm not saying I'm an angel, or that I didn't/don't make mistakes and learn the hard way. But I feel these - how to put it - assualts or special up-close-breathing-down-my-neck-kind-of-attention is not because the users in question are concerned about me wrecking everything, but because I make strong arguments and valid points they don't like and can't reason against. Of course, that's my view, and I hope you will take a look at it all.

I was being bold. I could have used Wikipedia's nuke, but I didn't. I could easily have engaged myself in even more controversial/heated subjects - easily - but I didn't, many of my recent contributions are quite fair and withholding. I have had my account for more than 11 years, and I've made other non-political and non-controversial contributions. If I need to prove my best of intentions, e.g. by avoiding contributing in controversial or heated subjects, or post-1993 US politics, or contribute in trivial areas, or whatever, then I'm very open to settling on something. I can refrain from posting about very heated/contested stuff as we could settle on (even if we disregarded my subject ban). But I seriously think there's more to it than this, for these few select users.

Involved users (who I feel are/were antagonizing/harrassing me/treating me unduly): Slatersteven, PaleoNeonate, Guy Macon, Newimpartiala
Involved users (who I don't feel are/were antagonizing/harrassing me/treating me unduly: Jdphenix, El_C

(a) NewImpartial has only been - how to put it - unfair and sour against me in the discussion on "conspiracy theory" as a value-laden contentious label. Also please note that it was El_C who subject-banned me, but he/she has not (to my recollection) treated me like the users Slatersteven et al., and I have thus not listed El_C with them.

The relevant pages:
My talk page - M. Greene section - ANI section - discussion on "conspiracy theory"

Some points of relevant interest:
Not all users are breathing down my neck and assult me with sanctions, to the contrary: "I'm more or less in the same boat as Lukan27"..."My behavior is at least as annoying as Lukan's and at the risk of WP:BOOMERANG, I'm not topic banned or blocked. No one's even warned me.", "They are clearly value laden as they are terms"..., "I question the utility of such labels, in that they have the potential to be cynically misapplied for nefarious purposes."...

Slatersteven says this is mentioning "an AP2 topic", but I was merely replying and objecting to his statement that I only started that section as a consequence of what happened on the M. Greene talk page, not to talk about post-1993 US politics.

This is apparantly okay to write but me replying to it (can't find the specific edit: "Do you care to explain why you add this small comment without signing?"...) (which also got the very same comment from IHateAccounts!) is apparantly not okay and I get this on my talk page, but IHateAccounts doesn't get a single comment or reprimand at all.. Please note that this user has also been blocked for sockpupetting, and also please review IHateAccounts's general history which is nothing else but talking about highly political and controversial/heated subjects. For comparison I can't make the slightest mistake, but an account like this can't engage lavishly in dubious behavior.

I have probably forgotten something, but I gotta get a break from Wikipedia now. Please ask if you have questions for me. Thank you for your time. Lukan27 (talk) 18:07, 27 January 2021 (UTC)

I have no wish to derail your talk page but note that this was not a reply to me, and was posted after I had suggested they tread carefully over the TBAN.Slatersteven (talk) 18:56, 27 January 2021 (UTC)
Note as well they are TBAN'ed from AP2, the above thus constitutes a violation of that ban.Slatersteven (talk) 19:02, 27 January 2021 (UTC)
I initially declined answering when invited on my talk page but decided to since I'm mentioned above. I posted twice at Lukan's page, once to help by answering a question they posted at an article talk page (1) and once to warn without a template that they may be exceeding the community's patience and that I might eventually report them, that they still have the opportunity to move on (2). Many new editors come to Wikipedia to complain of bias, including of mainstream media bias when learning that the encyclopedia relies on them, then of harassment when they fail to reach WP:CONSENSUS (a community process, recommended reading) for their changes. WP:WARN is also part of Wikipedia processes and while users may claim that legitimate warnings on their talk page consist of harassment or houding, it's rarely the case. It exists, but strong evidence is needed (WP:ASPERSIONS). We also have the useful concepts of WP:SPA and WP:HERE (important reading). When accounts are mostly used to advocate on Wikipedia and persist to a point where they are unnecessarily wasting community time (WP:DE, WP:TE), it becomes obvious to other editors. In this case it eventually resulted in a topic ban (as a result of a report by another editor at WP:ANI). This is an opportunity to move-on and prove to be "here for the encyclopedia", or one to unfortunately confirm that advocacy was the only purpose of editing. Editing is a privilege not a right and the encyclopedia not a social network or forum for general debates (WP:EXPECT, WP:NOTFORUM, WP:FREESPEECH). —PaleoNeonate – 23:31, 27 January 2021 (UTC)
@PaleoNeonate: thanks. I couldn't have said it better and am tempted to quote it in the future. I see another Admin has given a 31 hour block. Doug Weller talk 08:40, 28 January 2021 (UTC)
Feel free to quote/adapt, —PaleoNeonate – 16:22, 28 January 2021 (UTC)

Response from jdphenix

I'll just summarize my thoughts.

  • I generally agree with the assertion that Lukan27 is in violation of WP:TBAN for the diff that Slatersteven posted above. I find myself annoyed with that conclusion, but the policy is clear.
    I personally feel that the diff in question was practically (unintended) bait, as it was a response to an argument that seemed to dismiss the discussion on the basis of how it came about. Lukan27's edit is only a violation because they confirmed part of Guy Macon's argument; that they had posted at MOS after the Greene talk page.
  • I don't agree that posting here is a violation, but merely a procedural error. See WP:UNBAN and Wikipedia:Arbitration_Committee/Discretionary_sanctions#Appeals_and_modifications. Options for Lukan27 for a next course of action are clearly laid out.
  • I agree with the assertion that my own personal behavior in this topic area is comparable to Lukan27's. As such, I've decided to treat myself as topic banned from AmPol and COVID-19 until I can not act like an idiot, as of this edit. Anyone looking over my edit history the past month can see that I've been hotheaded and spent too much damn time here.
  • Based on this post and others pointed out, I do not believe the TBAN should be removed at this time.
  • To Lukan27 specifically, COVID-19 is just as contentious. Trust me on that one. Just take a break. There's no reason to spend so much time on a volunteer effort. You and I both need to heed the advice here. Where you're standing, you're going to end up getting blocked from editing altogether.

This entire process almost seems like an overly bureaucratic joke. Jdphenix (talk) 20:06, 27 January 2021 (UTC)

He was warned (by me) in advance about his actions, I told them they were going to step over the mark by accident if they did not disengage. See wp:battleground and WP:IDIDNTHEARTHAT, if he had taken my advice he would now not have a ban. He choose to continue to push the limits of his IBAN. Moreover, even if we take the above wall of text as an appeal it would have failed as appeals are only about the user's actions, not anyone elses.Slatersteven (talk) 10:53, 28 January 2021 (UTC)
I do hope I am not out of line here, if I am then Doug can tell me to go shovel some snow, but as a relatively newer editor here, six months or so, but one who has been involved in contentious discussions, some I have had to apologize for the uncivil tone and others I stand by my position, I have to say it is easy to tell someone to back down. If we are to be impartial, which we are, then that should be a message not directed at one person but all involved. Too many times I see the person who "hits back" gets punished when all they were doing is defending themselves from attack. I understand they chose to enter the fray but why should one be disavowed from being able to speak on a topic when others are allowed to come back at them with little to no contestation and no regard for the civility in their own tone. There is rarely a call to disengage when it is a topic we are either indifferent to or even have a particular side, usually giving the benefit of a doubt to side we agree with. I am not saying this is the case here. I admittedly know little about the issue, and even less about you as individuals, other than I did look over most all of the comments and followed the links above. I think you are all wonderful people, I just think sometimes we get caught up in our respective positions and I agree that we should walk away. I also think it's inherently dangerous to point out our perception of the position of others, especially those feeling as though they are being specifically targeted, and further singling them out while letting others make their own self-evaluation about their actions when both are very much not only similar but tied directly together, if that makes sense. What is the criteria by which we allow certain editors more freedom of expression while others are held to this seemingly intermittent line called civility? It's a genuine question and not one directed at any particular person or decision made. It's an observation I keep seeing repeated over and over and it does concern me. --ARoseWolf 18:14, 28 January 2021 (UTC)
No one else had a TBAN in place, so no one else needed to be warned they might be about to break it. So in this case the "criteria by which we allow certain editors more freedom of expression" was "don't breach your TBAN, for any reason, you may be about to". It was not a case of they were baited, they had been warned in advance of thier post.Slatersteven (talk) 18:33, 28 January 2021 (UTC)
This may have been relevant if you could show that they're the target of personal attacks or that editors who don't agree with their proposed edits do so out of WP:IDONTLIKEIT rather than to reflect what reliable sources say... —PaleoNeonate – 18:50, 28 January 2021 (UTC)
Slater, I'm not debating the merits of your warning. I think it was totally justified to warn them of their potential breach of the TBAN. But it sounds to me like, and in review of all the information, there were others involved who took a less than civil approach and may or may not be engaged in further actions against the above editor, even if perceived. What of them? Where are they warned to "walk" away, per se? What I offer is food for thought. We all have to evaluate our comments and words individually. I am not judging particular actions and the only reason it is indented to your comment is because it is the next in sequence, not a direct response to you.
Paleo, absolutely, the onus is on them to provide examples of the attacks on them but that's not always black and white. Many attacks can be implied through passive aggressive tactics. To say my comments are not relevant is a form of aggression in and of itself. I would never say something you see as a concern is irrelevant. This isn't an argument. It's a general observation. And of course it's relevant or I wouldn't be saying it. They may not be appropriate to apply in this particular case and I made room for that. It doesn't mean it doesn't happen or that what I say isn't true. --ARoseWolf 19:08, 28 January 2021 (UTC)
I had informed them that if they had an issue with users behavior to take it to ANI, and not make a case on an articles talk page (which is a breach of talk page guidelines). As to why others were not told to walk away, because (as I said) they had not been warned or sanctioned. As to why they had not been warned or sanctioned, can you give an example of what they should have been warned about? Because without some policy breach there is nothing to warn anyone about.Slatersteven (talk) 19:12, 28 January 2021 (UTC)
One even said they were engaged in the same behavior and gave themselves a TBAN, which is commendable. I read the whole conversation and it's quite remarkable for them to, first recognize and second commit to it. Much respect to them. We could sit here all day and night and go back and forth over examples of incivility here that was appropriately dealt with and other cases where the individual was given the benefit of a doubt for (enter your reason why here). What I was saying was more a generic statement for us to step out of our positions and into the position of others and try to understand why they would feel or see things the way they do. Maybe we can take steps to alleviate the concern, maybe not. I wasn't providing solutions, criticizing any particular decision or condemning any person involved. --ARoseWolf 19:58, 28 January 2021 (UTC)
You assume we do not, but there comes a point when you have to accept that a person's attitudes or behavior are such that they are a net drain. This is why I said to them to step away from editing highly contentious pages, become a valued editor, and get some experience. We are more lenient towards people who have made 100 useful edits and one policy violation than we are towards users who have made 20 edits, 15 of them policy violations. Also, you make assumptions about "our positions", you do not know what any user's positions are. I will sign off now, I am sure Doug has better things to do than read my missives.Slatersteven (talk) 10:57, 29 January 2021 (UTC)

Discussion of interest

As someone who has contributed to its talk page, you may be interested in this discussion. Beyond My Ken (talk) 23:42, 29 January 2021 (UTC)

2409:4052::/32

Hi Doug. I think you should adjust your block on Special:Contribs/2409:4052::/32. The duration seems excessive given its block log. More importantly, as a hard block, it probably has high collateral. — JJMC89 (T·C) 01:24, 30 January 2021 (UTC)

@JJMC89: ouch, I've never blocked anyone for 3 years, it was meant to be 3 months. Doug Weller talk 07:04, 30 January 2021 (UTC)
Thanks for shorening the block. Does it need to be a hard block? — JJMC89 (T·C) 07:21, 30 January 2021 (UTC)
@JJMC89: my feeling was that there was a very good likelihood that any accounts would edit in the same way and that much of the vandalism from accounts would be missed. And of course accounts can ask for an IP exemption, but if you think it shouldn't be I'll change it. Doug Weller talk 07:33, 30 January 2021 (UTC)
Given the size, location, and ISP, I think the block should be softened. Even a range like Special:Contribs/2607:fb90::/32, which does have extensive abuse, is not hard blocked. — JJMC89 (T·C) 08:05, 30 January 2021 (UTC)
@JJMC89: done. Thanks for your comments. Doug Weller talk 13:10, 30 January 2021 (UTC)

User:Stefan Verlag

Dear Doug, I have run into increasingly disruptive behaviour by a new user user:Stefan Verlag who started out doing good-faith edits related to the Kambaata people and language. He is not happy with the fact that factual policy in Ethiopia and most of the literature see what he sees as one people and language as a conglomerate of several peoples and languages, including the Halaba people and the Tembaro people. He therefore goes through a number of articles, combining the numbers of these various peoples into the Kambaata population, and removing references to these peoples, sometimes citing questionable sources or even good sources (such as the grammar by Treis 2008) although they don't support his claims. On Stefan's talk page I made several attempts to inform him of the need to bring good sources, and to avoid original research; I finally warned him that continued editing in this way would lead to consequences. After this warning, he now proceeded with this edit, so that finally I feel forced to call in the support of an administrator. Can you please have a look and let me know what you think? Best wishes, and thanks, Landroving Linguist (talk) 16:16, 30 January 2021 (UTC)

Buddhism in Tuva

Hallo, This article has just been "created" as a pure unacknowledged copy of other editors' work from Tuva. I notice that you deleted two earlier versions - you might like to check whether the current editor could be another incarnation of your sockpuppets there. Glimpsing quickly at Wikipedia:Sockpuppet_investigations/Nittin_Das/Archive I see a description "Same interests as Nittin Das; military weapons, paramilitary organizations, religion in Asia/Asian religions,", which matches this one's edits. PamD 09:26, 31 January 2021 (UTC)

@PamD: you're right, I just need to figure out how to label it, although I'm certain I've no recent CU results to check against. Doug Weller talk 10:40, 31 January 2021 (UTC)

The Signpost: 31 January 2021

* Read this Signpost in full * Single-page * Unsubscribe * MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 20:10, 31 January 2021 (UTC)

Removed banner

Hello! I noticed that you added the BLP sources banner to The_Chosen_(TV_series) (diff) back around new years. Since this is an article about a TV serious and indeed not a Biography of a Living Person (BLP), that banner seemed inappropriate. I wanted to let you know that I removed this in case there is some misunderstanding. SkotyWATC 01:43, 1 February 2021 (UTC)

Delete

Hello, maybe this revision should be deleted.-- 3knolls (talk) 18:27, 1 February 2021 (UTC)

Administrators' newsletter – February 2021

News and updates for administrators from the past month (January 2021).

Arbitration

Miscellaneous

Sent by MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 19:09, 1 February 2021 (UTC)

Netert Mudat Egyptian Scarab Map

Hi Doug. I'd appreciate your thoughts on Netert Mudat Egyptian Scarab Map, especially the bits cited to the strange 'journal' Present Pursuits of the Past. My WP:RS and WP:FRINGE alarm bells are ringing. – Joe (talk) 08:02, 2 February 2021 (UTC)

Post-1932 US politics and closely related people

Good morning

This is in response to Important Notice that you placed on my Talk page, 20:03, 31 December 2020. I am now contributing to a lengthy discussion at Talk:2021 storming of the United States Capitol. That page has a notice mentioning that the article has been listed as a level-5 vital ('article Vital articles are lists of subjects for which the English Wikipedia should have corresponding featured-class articles') and has been rated as B-Class ('The article is mostly complete and without major problems but requires some further work to reach good article standards'), then lists numerous WikiProjects for which the article 'is of interest'.

My questions are

  • do you participate in any of those WikiProjects?
  • is there co-ordination among them, particularly in connection with,,,,
Wikipedia:WikiProject Donald Trump
Wikipedia:WikiProject Politics/American politics
WikiProject United States / District of Columbia / Government / History / Presidential elections
WikiProject U.S. Congress
Wikipedia:WikiProject United States
articles such as
Stealing America: Vote by Vote
2020 United States presidential election
Attempts to overturn the 2020 United States presidential election
2020–21 United States election protests
1960 United States presidential election
1952 United States presidential election
List of United States presidential elections in which the winner lost the popular vote
Electoral fraud
Dominion Voting Systems

If you prefer, please answer on my Talk page. Qexigator (talk) 09:50, 2 February 2021 (UTC)

@Qexigator: I don't participate in those Wikiprojects so far as I can recall. So I can't answer the rest of your question, sorry. Doug Weller talk 09:57, 2 February 2021 (UTC)
Thank you for your reply. So, two more questions
Why did you put the notice on my page?
More important, where should I go for answers to the questions above? Qexigator (talk) 10:23, 2 February 2021 (UTC)

DS Question

Would Elagabalus, an article over which there are periodic edit-wars over gender pronouns, fall under the discretionary sanctions from the GamerGate arbitration case. I've wanted to ask this several times, but I'm neither capable of telling whether that DS is applicable nor what the effects would be if it did fall under that DS scope. Mr rnddude (talk) 00:11, 3 February 2021 (UTC)

@Mr rnddude: yes, just as much as though Elagablus was a living person. The usual sanctions would apply. I'll put it under sanctions. Doug Weller talk 07:48, 3 February 2021 (UTC)

Re

I have seen similar notices on other people’s talk pages as well, but I don’t quite get what and when it is used for. I don’t really have an interest in those topics, but I was just instead responding to edit requests. Can you please clarify that for me? Thanks. 54nd60x (talk) 00:26, 6 February 2021 (UTC)

AqBurkitt

Best regards Doug. A while ago a template was placed to an article I created [5], and the user who placed it is no longer active. We recently made many changes to it, so another opinion is needed. If you can take a look at it, I would greatly appreciate it. Have a nice day.--Jairon Levid Abimael Caál Orozco (talk) 03:36, 6 February 2021 (UTC)

The whole point to a safe house is that only certain and key individual know it's location.

If they refuse to keep said location a secret, it is no longer a safe house it is a house. TheKing'sMongrelSon (talk) 19:48, 6 February 2021 (UTC)

Don’t not remove edits that are factual

Do not remove edits that are factual and vandalize a page. Fedfan00001 20:11, 7 February 2021 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Fedfan0001 (talk • contribs)

Weird as I reinstated the original text. Doug Weller talk 20:41, 7 February 2021 (UTC)

SPI

Hello, Doug Weller. Please check your email; you've got mail!
It may take a few minutes from the time the email is sent for it to show up in your inbox. You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{You've got mail}} or {{ygm}} template.
Tgeorgescu (talk) 10:14, 10 February 2021 (UTC)

{{Doug, I cannot reach you any other way!}} User: Suzanne Olsson ([[ User talk: I hope you have got through this past year & pandemic OK. I worried about you. I am still working with local churches and agencies on emergency relief for my neighborhood. My web site crashed and now I am trying to squeeze in time to rebuild. Here's as far as I got: www.rozabal.com Thought you might enjoy it. If you need anything, let me know. Miss you. Stay safe and have a Happy Day! Sue]])

Article deletion

Hello, what is the correct procedure to finally get the Stations of the Exodus article deleted? ♆ CUSH ♆ 20:19, 11 February 2021 (UTC)

@Cush: WP:AfD but there's absolutely no chance of that happening as it's a notable topic. You could try a merge request to merge it with another article (through discussion) - WP:MERGE. Doug Weller talk 07:59, 12 February 2021 (UTC)
How is it notable on its own? Is is fiction. Also, it is just an arbitrary extraction from the text with almost no information on the individual locations beyond the name in the text. I had placed an WP:AfD but it got reverted without discussion. Does a marker have to placed anywhere apart from the article? ♆ CUSH ♆ 08:58, 12 February 2021 (UTC)
You placed a WP:PROD. That's fine. It was WP:CONTESTED, that's also fine. Now you can decide if you want to start an "actual" afd instead, see WP:BEFORE and WP:AFDHOWTO. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 09:52, 12 February 2021 (UTC)

Editing

Mr. Weller, I do not understand. I thought the goal was to improve Wikipedia and I spent considerable time and energy to improve article content, only to have it completely erased such that I cannot even view the content I wrote? How is that "helping to create a world in which everyone can freely share in the sum of all knowledge." That article was tagged with requiring more information in the lead section and with requiring additional references, so I took it upon myself to do those things and make it better. I simply do not understand.Belain1737 (talk) 20:23, 8 February 2021 (UTC)

We can't keep copyright violations in an article or the history. This is a legal issue from the point of view of Wikipedia and the Wikimedia Foundation. Did you tread the links? Doug Weller talk 20:27, 8 February 2021 (UTC)

Yes I attempted to read them but they are highly technical and full of legalese. The majority of references used on that society page are from sources written far more recently than the books I cited. Since I cannot see what I wrote that may have been a copyright issue, could you please explain in layman's terms what specifically was a violation? This makes no sense to me.Belain1737 (talk) 20:54, 8 February 2021 (UTC)

I'm not involved and just came here because I had recently added the Society to my watchlist, saw the strikeouts, and got curious. There's a learning curve for Wikipedia. Though I probably read the deleted material a few days ago, I don't remember what may have been deleted. But it sounds to me as if some (or much) of the labor put in by Mr. Belain might be salvageable, so I hope that the record of his work can somehow or other be made available to him. And that he can be given guidance to properly navigate potentially complex legal issues (since the dates at which books go out of copyright may vary - and it may be legit to use material from some older books, but this too must be done properly). Thank you to all who contribute to Wikipedia, which includes both Doug Weller and Belain. Best -Presearch (talk) 22:25, 8 February 2021 (UTC)
@Presearch: thanks for dropping by. The copyvio material was in fact mainly from the society itself[6][7][8] and something called RefWarTalk owned by an anonymous individual and which fails WP:RS as well.[9] No complex legal issues involved fortunately. Doug Weller talk 09:30, 9 February 2021 (UTC)
Thanks @Presearch: for your comments. I added significant information and improvements to the article, increasing the references from the current 27 to almost 70. Out of the 40 plus references I added, Mr. Weller has called out 4, yet erased everything I added to the article. Three of the four references he calls out are for citations from the Society's own websites, yet prior to my editing there were already citations from their website used as references in the article, all of which still remain by the way (see current notes 22-24 for example). The rest of the references I added were from sources like the National Park Service, newspapers and books written in 1929 and 1938, publicly available in the library. Instead of summarily dismissing the hard work put in to improving an article, I would suggest that a senior admin like Mr. Weller should provide an editor appropriate time to remove what are supposedly unacceptable references and replace them with viable ones. Respectfully request my edits be restored and that I be permitted to remove the 4 references Mr. Weller has called out.Belain1737 (talk) 15:21, 9 February 2021 (UTC)
Belain1737, I hope you don't mind me butting in here, I just want to reiterate the point that Doug has already made - our policy is very clear on this point, we must not host copyright violations anywhere on the site (including draft and user space), they are to be removed as soon as they are discovered. It is too much to expect us to weed out copyvios from other material, we are volunteers too, and we would be derelict in the responsibilities we have taken on if we were to leave it in place in the hopes that someone else will deal with it. Doug has done what any admin would have done.
The WP:COPYVIO policy is arguably one of the more complicated ones, but you can avoid having to understand the nuances of it by following one simple rule: don't copy text (or images) from any source, write everything in your own words. Personally, when I'm writing articles, I try to find at least two sources covering the information I want to include, I make notes about what they say, and I then put them away while I'm writing my prose. Don't be tempted to copy and paste and then just change a few words - that can lead to close paraphrasing which is also prohibited. Write it entirely yourself in your own words and all will be well. Best GirthSummit (blether) 15:41, 9 February 2021 (UTC)
I'll just add that I haven't read through every edit you made to the article, but I did check the one from the 29th of January at 03:48, which contains substantial chunks of text which have been copied from this website, with just a few words changed here or there, and some entire sentences copied with no changes. That is a clear violation, and needed to be reverted and hidden from public view without delay. GirthSummit (blether) 15:51, 9 February 2021 (UTC)
Perhaps if Mr. Belain's email were made available (maybe it already is), the now-deleted version of the page could be emailed to him, to ease his task of regenerating the material (but this time in line with copyright laws)? --Presearch (talk) 20:27, 9 February 2021 (UTC)
So is it appropriate for me to rewrite and add back all of the references and verbiage I previously published to the article, minus the 4 cited by Mr. Weller?Belain1737 (talk) 17:09, 10 February 2021 (UTC)
@Belain1731: maybe, I can't recall everything you wrote. Sources must meet WP:RS, discuss the subject of the article, and edits must meet our requirements at WP:NPOV in particular. The Society is a fine source for its structure and officers, not so much for its history, that needs independent sources. Doug Weller talk 17:16, 10 February 2021 (UTC)
I believe the majority of the references I added were from two books already listed in the article's bibliography list.Belain1737 (talk) 17:49, 10 February 2021 (UTC)

Since you seem to be well versed in the policies, I could not locate a definition for "family" in Wikipedia's guidance. Is there a defined degree to which someone is related that Wikipedia uses when determining whether an editor can edit a distant relative's article? When you go back far enough, many of us are related in some fashion. If left to an editor's discretion, I would define "family" as a living, immediate family member. Thanks.Belain1737 (talk) 20:34, 11 February 2021 (UTC)

(talk page stalker) I have edited an article about my first cousin, once removed. Someone else started the article after he died. I posted some material on the talk page for inclusion in the article. After it sat there for months with no comment, I finally added it to the article myself. I regarded the material as non-controversial, and no one has ever objected to it. In general, though, I would say to avoid directly editing any article about a relative who is closer than 2nd cousin, or closer than great-great-grandparent for direct ancestors, especially if the material might be at all controversial. Instead, post the material you would like to see in the article in an edit request on the talk page. If in any doubt at all, use an edit request. - Donald Albury 22:34, 11 February 2021 (UTC)
{re|Donald Albury}} thanks, but I think that's being overcautious. I don't see a problem here with someone long dead. Doug Weller talk 08:01, 12 February 2021 (UTC)
@Doug Weller: Thank you for the guidance Mr. Weller. Another editor previously advised that I should avoid all family of any kind, no matter the degree of relationship, which I thought was extreme and why I posed the question.Belain1737 (talk) 14:56, 12 February 2021 (UTC)

Source

Ali, Sharif Aydarus (1955). Bughya Al-Amal fi Tarikh as-Sumaal. p. 107.

Here is the source book is in Arabic tho Ibn Jaziira (talk) 18:38, 15 February 2021 (UTC)

User:Moskerhus

Hi Doug. I just deleted this recent spree of outright historic revisionism by a new user named "Moskerhus".[10]-[11] He is pressing ancient, historic sites as "Kurdish", including Taq Bostan, Bisotun, Temple of Anahita. This is just the tip of the iceberg. - LouisAragon (talk) 09:15, 16 February 2021 (UTC)

@LouisAragon: you're in a better situation to warn him and I see nothing on his talk page. I don't want to block without clear evidence this is going to continue. Thanks. Doug Weller talk 12:50, 16 February 2021 (UTC)
Left a (level 1) warning. - LouisAragon (talk) 21:35, 16 February 2021 (UTC)

IP at Hyksos

Hi Doug, can anything be done about this IP at Hyksos 147.236.50.70? He's edit warring there about sourced information and has also posted some somewhat offensive edit summaries elsewhere, e.g. [12], [13]. Seems to have an anti-Arab POV.--Ermenrich (talk) 13:53, 18 February 2021 (UTC)

Inappropriate contact from IP

IP User:85.144.218.248 left me a talk page message that I believe violates BLP, diff=008313604. Apparently the block you had previously applied expired a few days ago. Would you be willing to hide/delete that message, and apply whatever sanction or warning that is appropriate? ...or let me know where else I should report it? Many thanks for the work you do. Grand'mere Eugene (talk) 20:32, 22 February 2021 (UTC)

Tendentious IP presistently misrepresenting sources/adding OR at Haplogroup D-CTS3946. Any help greatly appreciated

I am sorry to bother you, but I am not sure what to do, and any help is greatly appreciated. There is an IP editor (a range of IPs, two so far, https://wiki.riteme.site/wiki/Special:Contributions/46.125.250.97 and https://wiki.riteme.site/wiki/Special:Contributions/46.125.250.56) persistently adding highly tendentious edits and original research to the Haplogroup D-CTS3946 (claiming it is in the interest of balance). I engaged in a long discussion with them last night in Talk about one source they had insisted on adding, and whose inclusion seems to be WP:OR (since it was written before the discovery/reclassification of the haplogroup the page is about), they seemed, and still seem unwilling to WP:LISTEN on the topic. (Discussion here [[14]].) It continues to stand because I wish to avoid edit warring and they have not yet replied to my latest response.

They also added similar addition on the Haplogroup DE and Haplogroup D-M174 pages, but fortunately have stopped edit warring there. (The pattern of this current IP, like that of earlier users of which they remind me, seems to be to push the POV that haplogroups DE and originated in Asia, and periodically use sources misleadingly to do so.)


Now the IP (which has now shifted) has added a substantial amount of even more egregious WP:OR to the Haplogroup D-CTS3946 page, in which they have misrepresented two recent sources (it seems rather blatantly). I cannot revert because that would violate 3RR (and if I could, would lead only to an edit war anyway, which I do not want). I have tried to engage them in Talk (started a discussion) but I am not very hopeful. I would consider WP:ANI but the topic may be too specialized, and the IP may be more of a civil POV-pusher without very obvious conduct issues. The most recent topic I started is here where I explain the problem with the IP's additions: [[15]]


I thought to contact User:ABCEdit (who initially started the page, with contributions from me afterward), but they seem not to have been too active lately and may be busy, since they seem to be active across several language versions of Wikipedia (and I hope doing so is not WP:CANVASSING. Though I do not know what their biases are if any, and they did create the page). But I fear this may perhaps need the attention of an administrator.


This new IP range also reminds me somewhat of User:AsadalEditor (who was a sock of User:WorldCreaterFighter), who persistently made very similar tendentious OR/misleading edits to the Haplogroup DE and similar pages (and with whom I engaged in discussion there in 2019), and also of various IPs at the time who made similar edits (and some of which I believe were socks of AsadalEditor/WorldCreaterFighter if I am not mistaken - some were blocked at the same time that he was, and whose seeming POVs and tendencies appeared very similar to his) with whom I also engaged (in the last three talk discussions. numbers 7, 8, and 9 here: https://wiki.riteme.site/wiki/Talk:Haplogroup_DE).

Perhaps significantly, both those earlier IPs (such as these: [[16]],[[17]], [[18]], [[19]]) and the current IP range geolocate to Austria. Any attention to this matter is very much appreciated. As mentioned, this user is persistent and not very predisposed to listen, and at the risk of not assuming good faith, seems to be showing a pattern, which seems to me possibly to rise to the level of disruptive editing. Skllagyook (talk) 16:43, 22 February 2021 (UTC)

@Skllagyook: I don't think this is a WorldCreaterFighter}} sock, although I see your point about geolocation and you may be correct, but given WP:BEANS I don't want to discuss this here. You can email me if you're willing. If it's disruptive editing, ANI might be the best place. I dislike our genetic articles because I disagree with what is and is not an acceptable source. I see 46. is engaging in discussion. Doug Weller talk 13:55, 23 February 2021 (UTC)
@Doug Weller: Thank you for your response. I contacted User:ABCEdit and they responded. They agreed that the source the IP insisted on was not relevant to the article's topic and was best removed, and also suggested that they might be a sock of WorldCreatorFighter, but it is hard to know and we could be wrong. ABCEdit and I worked out a rough idea for a consensus version. ABCEdit did suggest incorporating the disputed source in a more relevantly contextualized and WP:DUE place as a compromise, which I did (along with removing some undue and misleading material). So far, the IP has not responded but fortunately (for the time being) has not continued to edit war. Skllagyook (talk) 02:02, 24 February 2021 (UTC)

Sock of User:Cassandrathesceptic

Hi Doug, I've had my eye on User:78.150.38.110 as a sock of indeffed User:Cassandrathesceptic, whose campaign was largely waged with numerous IP socks in the same broad geolocation (Yorkshire/Lancashire/Greater Manchester).

I notice you've encountered their views on terms for Native Americans here and here, which echoes your historical encounter with them here (the multitude of IPs informally signing as "Cassandra", unusually for them in a multitude of geolocations, though the last one (Bradford) is typical).

Other shared interests are the term Makar, cf. this with historical posts on the talk page here (this IP also being one of the Native Americans talk contributors) and here (fairly rarely, using the master account itself).

An interest in lynching, cf [20] with [21], [22], [23], [24] and [25].

Strong views on what constitutes Scotland (cf. this) and the promotion of the view that Scots should definitively be categorised as English are highly characateristic (particularly the latter, which is probably the focus of more than half of their/their socks' posts and this lengthy essay).

List of Scottish monarchs, cf. [26], [27], [28] and [29].

Hillsborough disaster, cf. [30], [31] and [32]

The absence of signing of posts is also characteristic.

FWIW, I note you've also encountered them at the end of this thread. Mutt Lunker (talk) 01:30, 24 February 2021 (UTC)

To the matches of articles add the talk page of The Brus, cf. [33] with [34], [35] and [36]. Mutt Lunker (talk) 23:36, 24 February 2021 (UTC)
Hello, Doug Weller. Please check your email; you've got mail!
It may take a few minutes from the time the email is sent for it to show up in your inbox. You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{You've got mail}} or {{ygm}} template.— Mutt Lunker (talk) 23:42, 24 February 2021 (UTC)

Likely sock/ban evader

Noticed this user suddenly pop pup to add content (with obvious experience) to List of paramilitary organizations, the same content that known sock Sangheili spartan was kept trying to repeatedly add, prior to you indeffing him. FYI - wolf 14:01, 25 February 2021 (UTC)

@Thewolfchild: - after checking I found that another editor started an SPI - I've confirmed this one and discovered another and blocked them. Thanks. Doug Weller talk 14:27, 25 February 2021 (UTC)
And thank you - wolf 14:35, 25 February 2021 (UTC)

Problems with getting reverted on Mormonism pages

Hello Doug Weller. I’ve been having some trouble getting what I think is objective information onto various pages dealing with Mormonism. To keep things simple, I will restrict this to one locus, the page King Follett discourse. As you may know, this was a sermon delivered by Joseph Smith Jr., the Mormon prophet, at the funeral of someone named King Follett in 1844. In the sermon Smith presented the doctrine that God was once a man just like us, and that there are an untold number of gods in the universe. Although he had apparently hinted at this earlier, this funeral sermon is where he spelled it all out. From the viewpoint of a historian, the sermon is significant because it changed the theology and direction of the LDS movement. Prior to that, Smith said that the doctrine of his movement was all based on the Book of Mormon: “Take away the Book of Mormon and the revelations, and where is or religion? We have none . . . I told the brethren that the Book of Mormon was the most correct of any book on earth, and the keystone of our religion . . .” The Follett discourse fundamentally changed this because new doctrines were introduced contradicting the Book of Mormon’s doctrine of God and other teachings; all authority for doctrine was now in the hands of the acting president. From either a historical or theological view, this was a fundamental change that has every right to be presented in a Wikipedia page devoted to the Follett sermon. When I did this, however, User:FyzixFighter, who admits on his user page that he is a Mormon, deleted everything I had entered, using the usual claims about violating NPOV, etc., replacing it with some weak statements about “humanities premortal existence and divine potential.” If he was really interested in objectivity, then the proper course of action would have been to improve what I entered with better wording, etc. But to delete it entirely, apparently because the changes mentioned implicitly show that the LDS Church really doesn’t trust the Book of Mormon, seems to imply a violation of NPOV on his part. Sorry if the issue is a little complicated, but if FyzikFighter continues to have his way, a lot of objectivity in Wikipedia pages devoted to Mormonism will be lost. Thanks for considering this, Chronic2 (talk) 13:16, 25 February 2021 (UTC)

I don't see where he says he's a Mormon. Anyway, I'd ask User:Epachamo. Doug Weller talk 14:03, 25 February 2021 (UTC)
It's here: User_talk:FyzixFighter#Are_you_mormon?. --Rsk6400 (talk) 14:36, 25 February 2021 (UTC)
@Rsk6400: thanks, I looked at his user page only. Doug Weller talk 19:47, 25 February 2021 (UTC)

Rather important

Hello, Doug Weller. Please check your email; you've got mail!
It may take a few minutes from the time the email is sent for it to show up in your inbox. You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{You've got mail}} or {{ygm}} template.— Atsme 💬 📧 12:44, 26 February 2021 (UTC)
Hello, Doug Weller. Please check your email; you've got mail!
It may take a few minutes from the time the email is sent for it to show up in your inbox. You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{You've got mail}} or {{ygm}} template.— User:Mutt Lunker
Hello, Doug Weller. Please check your email; you've got mail!
It may take a few minutes from the time the email is sent for it to show up in your inbox. You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{You've got mail}} or {{ygm}} template.— Alex2006 (talk) 21:14, 26 February 2021 (UTC)

Tamils

Any thoughts on the last two sections at Talk:Tamils - the ones concerning the Indus Valley Civilisation and the Indrapala source. - Sitush (talk) 16:41, 27 February 2021 (UTC)

The Knights of URE

Balance keepers and truth sayers
Is it better to live in blissful ignorance or to set the mind the free ?

Bruce lee you see was just like me but he had no idea when to take the chips and forgot heroes have a darker side. Nash was just plain pathetic I mean come on man, had it not been for a car park in vienna I would of simply have had have written him off as a failed attempt enmtirely to be honest.These parascientific types arent all ,ade equal but NEO knew his place in it all and brokered a truce like a true hero does but one where all sides win and happiness prevails for a while. Tzan zu has tuaght me well and game theory both non and vooperativer help one manage th esecrets contained with in the music and the mathamatics and one would find there head fast after watch Richard Feynamn deliver messages full of ancient whispers. This would be in part due to the proud line of brothers and sisters behind me and to my sides and peripherals. Ther professor would see whimsy in turning sword to water and poison to cure would hen not Sir Weller of THE Knights of the ROund UUSr Feinsteinium77 (talk) 19:19, 27 February 2021 (UTC)

FYI: Feinsteinium77 indef blocked for flights of fanciful writing. David notMD (talk) 02:06, 28 February 2021 (UTC)

The Signpost: 28 February 2021

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Molefi Kete Asante Afrocentricity subheading

Thank you for your suggestion. However, would you still not say that lack of neutrality should be argued? After all, this is what Oxford states about Asante. He has strong criticisms yes, but he also has strong praise from scholars as well, particularly African (Toyin Falola, Ndlovu-Gatsheni, etc.) and African diaspora scholars and even some Asian (like Yoshitaka Miike). Would the fact that only Oxford is listed in this section have Wikipedia playing more towards Eurocentric perspective? Which is at the heart of Asante's various analyses to begin with. Just a suggestion. I don't necessary disagree with that Oxford quote being there; but it being the sole outside perspective on the topic is disingenuous don't you think? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Africologist (talk • contribs) 16:17, 1 March 2021 (UTC) Apologies. Will sign in the future. Africologist (talk) 16:29, 1 March 2021 (UTC)

@Africologist: I wouldn't go so far as to say disingenuous, but other comments from reliable sources on him (not on Afrocentrism in general, that wouldn't be appropriate) might meet WP:NPOV. Doug Weller talk 16:40, 1 March 2021 (UTC)
@Doug Weller: Understood. I will honor that. Oh and just for point of clarity. Though the two terms are often confused with each other because of the historical overalaps between people and events, Afrocentricity and Afrocentrism are not the same. Africologist (talk) 16:49, 1 March 2021 (UTC)
@Africologist: you need to discuss that at Talk:Afrocentrism. Doug Weller talk 17:19, 1 March 2021 (UTC)
@Doug Weller: Thank you. I will. Africologist (talk) 17:38, 1 March 2021 (UTC)

Administrators' newsletter – March 2021

News and updates for administrators from the past month (February 2021).

Administrator changes

added TJMSmith
removed Boing! said Zebedee • Hiberniantears • Lear's Fool • Only • WGFinley

Interface administrator changes

added AmandaNP

Guideline and policy news

Technical news

  • When blocking an IPv6 address with Twinkle, there is now a checkbox with the option to just block the /64 range. When doing so, you can still leave a block template on the initial, single IP address' talkpage.
  • When protecting a page with Twinkle, you can now add a note if doing so was in response to a request at WP:RfPP, and even link to the specific revision.
  • There have been a number of reported issues with Pending Changes. Most problems setting protection appear to have been resolved (phab:T273317) but other issues with autoaccepting edits persist (phab:T275322).

Arbitration

Miscellaneous

Sent by MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 19:13, 1 March 2021 (UTC)

Reverts

Hi Doug. Just wanted to thank you for your message. It is much appreciated. If this continues I will use the talk page to attempt to build consensus on the issue.— Preceding unsigned comment added by Africologist (talk • contribs) 20:16, 28 February 2021 (UTC)

.

Nice yow.... Sierra Mae (talk) 11:37, 4 March 2021 (UTC)

Request to visit discussion topic

First round of discussion about 'Difference between Muslim .... and Islamic .... ?' in relation to Wikipedia article titles has been initiated at some article talk pages, including @ Talk:List of former Muslims#Difference between Muslim .... and Islamic .... ?

You are being informed of the discussion, since its seems you have edited related topic previously.

Please do join in discussions, Thanks and regards

Bookku (talk) 03:03, 5 March 2021 (UTC)

Stefan Verlag

Dear Doug, I need to bother you again with user:Stefan_Verlag, whom you had temporarily blocked for disruptive editing at the end of January. After one more warning on February 1, he remained inactive until day before yesterday. Since then he started his edits in the same vein across a number of pages. This morning I warned him sternly about this on his talk page, but now, a few hours later, he did this edit, where he basically replaced the existing Ethnologue source with a source using the Ethnologue edition from 1996, because it better suits his purposes. Most of his other edits over the last few days did similar things - deleting or replacing good sources, or citing sources that actually don't support his claims. He doesn't seem to care about the warnings I give him in the edit summaries and on his talk page. Thanks! Landroving Linguist (talk) 12:56, 5 March 2021 (UTC)

@Landroving Linguist: a fortnight block from the most recent articles, allowing use of the article talk pages. Doug Weller talk 20:03, 5 March 2021 (UTC)

Unsourced material again

Our old friend R. Martiello is at it again, this time at Latins. I've reverted some of their changes, but I want to forestall another edit-war. Would you mind taking a look? —Sangdeboeuf (talk) 23:29, 1 March 2021 (UTC)

@Sangdeboeuf: I've given a final warning. You should probably put something on the talk page about your synthesis concerns, maybe theirs. Doug Weller talk 19:44, 2 March 2021 (UTC)
 Done. Your warning seems to have calmed things down. Thanks. —Sangdeboeuf (talk) 23:08, 5 March 2021 (UTC)

New message from AntoineHound

Hello, Doug Weller. You have new messages at AntoineHound's talk page.
Message added 02:20, 7 March 2021 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

AntoineHound (talk) 02:20, 7 March 2021 (UTC)

NOTHERE

With respect to this: a quick glance through this editor's history shows that they're much more interested in using Wikipedia talk pages as a forum or blog than they are in making improvements. (I've warned them about their user page before, which is why I saw your comment.) The few times they have ventured into article space, they get reverted, they switch to edit-warring, and eventually they move on. I haven't had the energy to put together a WP:NOTHERE case at ANI, but I think it applies. --JBL (talk) 14:48, 7 March 2021 (UTC)

Clearly WP:NOTHERE and WP:NONAZIS. When confronted with McDonald's own words about Jews destroying white power and America as a white country, they replied, He clearly has misgivings, but that does not make one an anti-semite. If declaring that Jews are destroying America doesn't make one an anti-semite, I'm not sure what does. NorthBySouthBaranof (talk) 16:03, 7 March 2021 (UTC)
@NorthBySouthBaranof: Ok I went ahead and started a thread at ANI. You are invited to add your thoughts. --JBL (talk) 17:25, 7 March 2021 (UTC)

Gympie Pyramid editing

Hi Doug, thanks for editing into 'the gympie pyramid'. It feels good that finally someone Wiki experienced had a look and it. Most of the changes I can understand, but some surprise me. In 2015 someone complained about his addition of Anthony Wheelers info to article. I guess you deleted that section.. Now you kept that one but deleted the other 2 arguments, Brett Green and Elaine Brown. I know, in particular Brett Green ( with is books) is questionable, but as he and his Grand father are investigating into the site for so long, I find they should be mentioned in 'history'. Also Elaine Browns survey into the the people who leased the land in the early days... very interesting. Just wondering whats your thoughts are to not include them? Wheelers article I find less informative ... who thought because its called pyramid it must be Egyptian, then the next smart idea, there are steps, so it got to be an Inca step pyramid... This is why I thought the article should be changed in the first place.

I am requesting sources from the Kabi elders at the moment in regards to the 40 year fight and the grooves, which I photographed myself.Someone added a photo apparently, this are the grooves I mentioned. I don't know this person and was told my own photos not to upload, because it would be 'my own investigation'.

To add a link citation for the 'A further survey by the Department of Transport ' section, I find only a google link to tmr.qld.gov.au PDF document, which is interesting to see how govs sees the history. How can I add this link? google seem to be black listed and on the tmr webpage I could not find this pdf. thank you for your time! Wikigetsme123 (talk) 02:23, 9 March 2021 (UTC)

Ramapough Lenape Nation

Greetings Doug. It's been awhile since i have made any edits.. I have found something new to add and needed your input o determine it it can be added. The source is a copy of the Supreme Court appeal from RAMAPOUGH MOUNTAIN INDIANS VS GALE A. NORTON – MAY 16TH, 2002, Docket 01-011703. The significance of this is the BIA failed to recognize us publically but in court they admitted they do. Last paragraph of Page 11.

[1]Cert of Writ

This changes the reason of why we were denied. Please advise your opinion. Ramapoughnative (talk) 21:21, 12 March 2021 (UTC)

References

  1. ^ https://tputaawii-xuwii-pambiilak.org/media/newspaperdocuments/supreme-court-of-the-united-states-petition-for-a-writ-of-certiorari/

Gympie Pyramid editing

Hi Doug, thanks for editing into 'the gympie pyramid'. It feels good that finally someone Wiki experienced had a look and it. Most of the changes I can understand, but some surprise me. In 2015 someone complained about his addition of Anthony Wheelers info to article. I guess you deleted that section.. Now you kept that one but deleted the other 2 arguments, Brett Green and Elaine Brown. I know, in particular Brett Green ( with is books) is questionable, but as he and his Grand father are investigating into the site for so long, I find they should be mentioned in 'history'. Also Elaine Browns survey into the the people who leased the land in the early days... very interesting. Just wondering whats your thoughts are to not include them? Wheelers article I find less informative ... who thought because its called pyramid it must be Egyptian, then the next smart idea, there are steps, so it got to be an Inca step pyramid... This is why I thought the article should be changed in the first place.

I am requesting sources from the Kabi elders at the moment in regards to the 40 year fight and the grooves, which I photographed myself.Someone added a photo apparently, this are the grooves I mentioned. I don't know this person and was told my own photos not to upload, because it would be 'my own investigation'.

To add a link citation for the 'A further survey by the Department of Transport ' section, I find only a google link to tmr.qld.gov.au PDF document, which is interesting to see how govs sees the history. How can I add this link? google seem to be black listed and on the tmr webpage I could not find this pdf. thank you for your time! Wikigetsme123 (talk) 02:23, 9 March 2021 (UTC)

The Investigative Project on Terrorism (IPT)

Hi Doug. We've previously worked together on WikiIslam. I've done some cleanup of the IPT article, added some more reception of it, and have removed it as a source all articles in which it was cited. I noticed that you previously started a discussion on IPT on the reliable sources noticeboard. IPT has a lot of pages that a Wikipedia editor could potentially draw from, and I have no doubt it's going to start seeping into articles again eventually. Do you think it would be worthwhile to get it deprecated and added to the list at WP:RSPSOURCES? If so, how could we go about getting that done? One of the editors in the discussion you started also seemed to suggest the same: "I would say this source actually needs to be blacklisted ... Some of this stuff is effectively hate speech."
Eventually, I'd also like to do the same for Discover the Networks (DtN), a website run by the same organization that runs Jihad Watch and Frontpage Magazine, both of which are already deprecated. DtN was on several hundred pages before I started removing it. Snuish (talk) 05:36, 15 March 2021 (UTC)

@Snuish: sure, see the RSN discussion on Mashable as an example. At the top of RSN it says use the {{rfc|prop}} template. You'll have to start and defend it though, right now I've got projects at home taking up a lot of time. Doug Weller talk 17:22, 15 March 2021 (UTC)
Thanks, this is very useful! I'll start a discussion within the next week or two. Snuish (talk) 18:49, 15 March 2021 (UTC)

sabotage of article, reverse article to your last edit

Hi Doug, 'Gympie Pyramid' gets vandalized by some idiots. Could you please reverse it to your last edit. I will copy the text and reverse every time I see them vandalizing. How can I report a profile to be deleted? Cheers — Preceding unsigned comment added by Wikigetsme123 (talk • contribs) 08:37, 22 March 2021 (UTC)

Books & Bytes – Issue 42

The Wikipedia Library

Books & Bytes
Issue 42, January – February 2021

  • New partnerships: PNAS, De Gruyter, Nomos
  • 1Lib1Ref
  • Library Card

Read the full newsletter

Sent by MediaWiki message delivery on behalf of The Wikipedia Library team --11:27, 22 March 2021 (UTC)

Polygonal Wall

Hi Doug, the shape of those or design of the wall is clearly polygonal. I walked around it in Gympie, made photos. Those stones are all of different shape and set together without use of mortar. The wall is part of the history there and simply unexplained.

Please have a look at a video 'Pyramid Polygano Wall Gympie Queensland' at youtube. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Wikigetsme123 (talk • contribs) 16:17, 23 March 2021 (UTC)

Ramapough Lenape Nation

Greetings Doug. It's been awhile since i have made any edits.. I have found something new to add and needed your input o determine it it can be added. The source is a copy of the Supreme Court appeal from RAMAPOUGH MOUNTAIN INDIANS VS GALE A. NORTON – MAY 16TH, 2002, Docket 01-011703. The significance of this is the BIA failed to recognize us publically but in court they admitted they do. Last paragraph of Page 11.

[1]Cert of Writ

This changes the reason of why we were denied. Please advise your opinion. Ramapoughnative (talk) 21:21, 12 March 2021 (UTC)

@Ramapoughnative: Sadly we hardly ever use that sort of material but I've raised the issue at WP:RSN#Ramapough Mountain Indians and a report on an oral court argument. Doug Weller talk 13:54, 21 March 2021 (UTC)

References

  1. ^ https://tputaawii-xuwii-pambiilak.org/media/newspaperdocuments/supreme-court-of-the-united-states-petition-for-a-writ-of-certiorari/

Thank you for starting the ball rolling. Ramapoughnative (talk) 11:59, 24 March 2021 (UTC)

The Signpost: 28 March 2021

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Edit to Politifact article

Hi Doug,

I am inquiring about your recent edits to the Politifact article. My contributions at the end of the article's introduction were removed, citing unattributed, "dubious" sources. This will be corrected. However, the preceding sentence uses little-known, local sources (Milwaukee Magazine and Rhode Island Future, respectively). I am seeking further clarity on this. How are the aforementioned sources considered reliable, especially compared to well-known, national publications, and shouldn't the statement be appropriately attributed in-text regardless? Loltardo (talk) 22:08, 28 March 2021 (UTC)

(talk page gnome) @Loltardo: The article's talk page (Talk:PolitiFact) is where you should propose sources and seek WP:CONSENSUS, —PaleoNeonate – 05:54, 31 March 2021 (UTC)

Administrators' newsletter – April 2021

News and updates for administrators from the past month (March 2021).

Administrator changes

removed Alexandria • Happyme22 • RexxS

Guideline and policy news

  • Following a request for comment, F7 (invalid fair-use claim) subcriterion a has been deprecated; it covered immediate deletion of non-free media with invalid fair-use tags.
  • Following a request for comment, page movers were granted the delete-redirect userright, which allows moving a page over a single-revision redirect, regardless of that redirect's target.

Technical news

  • When you move a page that many editors have on their watchlist the history can be split and it might also not be possible to move it again for a while. This is because of a job queue problem. (T278350)
  • Code to support some very old web browsers is being removed. This could cause issues in those browsers. (T277803)

Arbitration

Sent by MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 22:20, 1 April 2021 (UTC)

Middle Eastern Jews: No end in sight

Hi Doug, I started that FTN discussion in the hope User:Bob drobbs would stop flooding talk pages with his reasoning. He got virtually no support on FTN, but still carries on regardless. He made about 60 edits in promotion of or related to the idea that Jews should be called Middle Eastern, mostly on talk pages, starting March 5th. I tried to ignore them, but he threatens and executes small scale edit warring: Help come up with a fair, non-biased standard, that will be applied to people of all religions or I'll keep reverting[37]. After I put an uw-ew on his talk page, he started adding POV templates to List of Middle Eastern superheroes and Middle Eastern Americans (April 5, here). He also did do forum shopping, not on FTN, but on NPOVN and on DRN (where it was immeadiately rejected by a volunteer[38]). I'm really at a loss what to do. Take it to ANI ? --Rsk6400 (talk) 08:29, 6 April 2021 (UTC)

@Rsk6400: yes, ANI. Doug Weller talk 12:19, 6 April 2021 (UTC)
Thanks, WP:ANI#User:Bob_drobbs_flooding_discussions. --Rsk6400 (talk) 18:44, 6 April 2021 (UTC)

Battle of Dabhoi

Can you undelete Battle of Dabhoi? It was deleted in 2012 due to creation by a blocked or banned user in violation of block or ban. The subject is a notable event. I want to work on it. Undeletion might be helpful. Regards,-Nizil (talk) 06:08, 7 April 2021 (UTC)

@Nizil Shah: - done. Please fix the citations so that they should title, author, etc - including relevant page numbers. 09:14, 7 April 2021 (UTC)

BritishSniper55/Jageracog2020

You blocked BritishSniper55 in Oct 2020 for sockpuppetry. I'm pretty sure the user Ukww1[39] is a sockpuppet, see identical editing style here:[40] Snooganssnoogans (talk) 01:34, 6 April 2021 (UTC)

@Snooganssnoogans: went to look at it, Floq got there first. Doug Weller talk 09:16, 7 April 2021 (UTC)

(Possibly) stale page restrictions

Hi, I was recently doing a review of all the page restrictions I've placed or taken ownership of over the years, and I noticed that a majority of the pages were no longer battlegrounds and didn't require restrictions anymore. I was looking backwards a couple of months on the article history and talk page looking for major diputes, and for the most part things were pretty quiet. I've removed the BRD restrictions from about 70% of the articles that I had put them on, and the 1RR restrictions from probably 90% of pages.

I figured while I was at it I might as well try to track down the other pages with active sanctions and see if the admins who placed them might also be interested in doing a similar review. The following list might not be complete, but it's the best I could come up with by tracking usages of the American Politics AE template. (Perhaps you can compare it to whatever system you have for tracking your active sanctions.) For convenience I'll put links to the edit notice page and the talk page.

I'm hoping that removing some of these restrictions can help restore some sense of normalcy to the topic area. In any case I hope this list is helpful. ~Awilley (talk) 23:48, 8 April 2021 (UTC)

Gympie Pyramid

Doug, I just happened to notice this article today. It is a complete mess. Actually it cannot really be edited seriously because this is just local newspaper yarning and gossip. I see now that I've done some fixes however, that you did a revert and stated that Marshall is not RS. True, but neither is Wheeler at skeptika com, etc. The fact is that there is only one source Archaeo/Brown that would pass snuff. Marshall is sheer provincial nonsense, reflecting a book by the son or grandson of an earlier Gympie resident who clearly fabricated a lot of nonsense, but since people obviously google for info, perhaps his synopsis of the BS should be used. I think actually that, if it is conserved, the article deserves just two paras, no more, stating where it is, the structure, settler viticulture, and the gossip stuff.Nishidani (talk) 12:44, 13 April 2021 (UTC)

Invitation to participate in DS Consultation

Hi Doug Weller. I'm not sure if you're aware of the current community consultation around Discretionary Sanctions but as someone who has participated in DS related activities recently I'd like to invite you to participate. You have the opportunity to participate at whatever level you wish; there are questions that are higher level (theoreticaly) in scope as well as opportunities to give feedback about specific areas of DS. The consultation will run through April 25th and I hope you'll participate. Best, Barkeep49 (talk) 15:26, 14 April 2021 (UTC)

Advice please

Hi, Doug, a disagreement has arisen on this Talk page and I'd like to raise the question of proper interpretation of MOS guidance in a wider forum. You once advised me how to do this, but I've forgotten; could you refresh my memory, please? Thanks in advance. Sweetpool50 (talk) 21:49, 14 April 2021 (UTC)

@Sweetpool50: if you can both work together, WP:DRN is best. If not, and you can frame a request in a clear way and neutral wording, WP:RfC. Doug Weller talk 08:40, 15 April 2021 (UTC)

Category deletion

Hello, what would be the process for deleting the Category:Prehistoric dinosaurs as it is meaningless ? ♆ CUSH ♆ 12:35, 15 April 2021 (UTC)

@Cush: ssee WP:CfD. Doug Weller talk 14:47, 15 April 2021 (UTC)

Removed wrongly archived banners from your talk page archive

Hi! Just wanted to let you know that I removed some banners from /Archive 32 that were probably accidentally copied to the archive. They don't really make sense there. --rchard2scout (talk) 13:20, 20 April 2021 (UTC)

Reading

Hello, Doug. I was reading through your archives of things written here while I was away. I am slowly trying to reacclimate myself back into Wikipedia, hopefully, in a more constructive manner than the way I left for Winter break. I only stopped by to wish you well and thank you for your contributions, whether we agreed or not. I happen to think you are an amazing admin that allows the conversations to be played out within your talk page with minimal interference with the exception being when personal attacks occur. Thanks again and if you need assistance with anything please let me know. I'd accept any guidance from veteran editors like yourself. Thanks again. --ARoseWolf 17:14, 22 April 2021 (UTC)

Happy First Edit Day!

Happy First Edit Day!

Have a very happy first edit anniversary!

From the Birthday Committee, CAPTAIN RAJU(T) 07:24, 23 April 2021 (UTC)

The Signpost: 25 April 2021

* Read this Signpost in full * Single-page * Unsubscribe * MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 22:31, 25 April 2021 (UTC)

The Signpost: 25 April 2021

* Read this Signpost in full * Single-page * Unsubscribe * MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 04:29, 26 April 2021 (UTC)

212.139.168.90

@Guy Macon: thanks, done. Doug Weller talk 10:42, 28 April 2021 (UTC)
Such a necessary and unappreciated effort having to watch for people doing this. If they actually contributed something constructive they might like it. :-( --ARoseWolf 15:35, 28 April 2021 (UTC)

BC/AD for ancient Israel and Judah

Hi. You're doing a lot of arbitration work, maybe you're aware if there hasn't been some quotable ruling on the matter of era style re. ancient Israel and Judah. Thanks, Arminden (talk) 14:20, 1 May 2021 (UTC)

Not an arbcom topic, nor should it be, but I think BCE is generally used in these articles. Johnbod (talk) 14:25, 1 May 2021 (UTC)
@Arminden: I agree with User:Johnbod. Doug Weller talk 14:50, 1 May 2021 (UTC)
@Johnbod and Doug Weller: hi. I'm not big on Wiki lingo, I just meant some decision, more or less consensual, and sufficiently authoritative as to be quoted as a strong argument. Starting the fight anew on each talk-page is not for me (not enough Sisyphus genes). Stumbled on the topic at Siege of Jerusalem (597 BC) and Siege of Jerusalem (586 BC), but I'm sure examples are legion. Thanks, Arminden (talk) 15:26, 1 May 2021 (UTC)
@Arminden: it's an exhausting and infuriating issue. The only "rule", which is actually guidance, is MOS:ERA which mentions "The Arbitration Committee has expressed the principle that "When either of two styles are acceptable it is inappropriate for a Wikipedia editor to change from one style to another unless there is some substantial reason for the change." We get into endless debates about "existing", and MOS:ERA says discussions should use arguments related to the article. Some people insist that the original style should never be changed, but that's not in the guidelines. Doug Weller talk 15:53, 1 May 2021 (UTC)
I once took part in a two-year discussion on the era question in which two other editors here also weighed in. I agreed then, and agree now, that "discussions should use arguments related to the article" which, in the case of "ancient Israel and Judah", would suggest that Common Era dating is more appropriate. Similar reasoning which (again) is not enshrined in editorial guidelines - so far as I know - usually dictates that UK English is used in articles on UK subjects, and US usage for US subjects, whoever initiates them. Appealing to common sense opens up too many cans of worms, but editorial consensus can usually be achieved via courtesy and flexibility. Sweetpool50 (talk) 17:05, 1 May 2021 (UTC)
Actually it is "enshrined in editorial guidelines" - WP:ENGVAR. Johnbod (talk) 02:53, 2 May 2021 (UTC)

Partial block of Quantum1278

Hello! I am not sure if the partial block of this user is configured properly. 13 minutes after the block, they again posted their anti-Ahmadi bits at Ahmadiyya, which they are supposed to be blocked from. PohranicniStraze (talk) 16:08, 4 May 2021 (UTC)

Lol. You both guys are a joke Quantum1278 (talk) 16:11, 4 May 2021 (UTC)

(Talk Page Stalker) What I find to be an absolute joke is that the thought actually came to you to post that above, like that's what actually came to your mind, out of all the things that could have been said, nope, that's the epic comment that you just had to use. Doug is not a joke. Admittedly, I don't know PohranicniStraze in the slightest but I doubt they are a joke either. I only posted because I think it is beneath Doug to even have to respond to that nonsense on his Talk Page. Luckily, I'm here and I have no problem calling out senseless drivel. --ARoseWolf 17:29, 4 May 2021 (UTC)

I'm not saying it was aliens

Maybe you've seen it already, but this ("I'm Not Saying It Was Aliens": An Archaeological and Philosophical Analysis of a Conspiracy Theory) is very interesting and could be useful for ancient astronauts etc.:

[...] in addition to the explanatory work that one might expect of a conspiracy theory, ancient aliens narratives do a great deal of ideological heavy lifting—for example, they diminish the cultural achievements of non-European societies, and at the same time they offer reinterpretations of religious narratives that seem to retain much of the religious content while jettisoning the supernatural metaphysical commitments.

– Joe (talk) 07:56, 5 May 2021 (UTC)

@Joe Roe: - looks interesting, but even getting the chapter alone is expensive. I've posted it to the FB group Fraudulent Archaeology Wall of Shame - maybe one of the academics there has it in their university library. Doug Weller talk 15:31, 5 May 2021 (UTC)
Ah. It doesn't seem to be in my library yet, but I managed to get just about the whole chapter on Google Books preview. – Joe (talk) 07:51, 6 May 2021 (UTC)

Quacking intensifies...

I think that Samuel Collingsworth (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) might be an old "friend". Guy (help! - typo?) 08:25, 5 May 2021 (UTC)

@JzG: yep, CU blocked. Well spotted and thanks, I've been fairly absent these last few weeks. Doug Weller talk 09:49, 5 May 2021 (UTC)
Doug Weller, you might want to remove TPA and revdel his last comment. Or you may wish to wear the scorn of Nazis as a badge of pride... Guy (help! - typo?) 13:40, 5 May 2021 (UTC)
(talk page stalker)I dunno. I think being an "ethnomarxist criminal against western civilization" sounds pretty cool. Pretty cyberpunk. ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPants Tell me all about it. 13:48, 5 May 2021 (UTC)
(talk page stalker) I'm with MPants at work. I'd leave it right where it is. Doug, you are such an awesome "ethnomarxist". You control everything even while being away. The destruction of Western Civilization is at your finger tips. Now that's power! lol --ARoseWolf 14:00, 5 May 2021 (UTC)
@MPants at work and Tsistunagiska: very Wikipedia:Long-term abuse/Mikemikev, need to get around to the SPI. MP, great to see you back. Doug Weller talk 14:08, 5 May 2021 (UTC)
Yeah, isn't "ethnomarxist" his catch-phrase? I've had a few run-ins with his socks, some confirmed by CU, others obvious ducks. I'm not surprised he's throwing fits, as he can't edit his favorite article since it (and the talk page) got ECPed. ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPants Tell me all about it. 14:11, 5 May 2021 (UTC)
That's one way to get your own Wikipedia page, albeit, not in main space. I'd be impressed if I didn't find the reasons for why they have it to be quite disgusting. --ARoseWolf 14:14, 5 May 2021 (UTC)
MPants at work, I assume that Angillo (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) is a legit alt, and not a bad hand sock or Mikemikev sock? Guy (help! - typo?) 17:06, 5 May 2021 (UTC)
@JzG: Angillo is an alt created by an editor as an SPA to edit this topic, as confirmed by CU. I'm a little worried about the lack of transparency as to who's alt it is, but it's relatively easy to find out if you know where to look. I don't want to out anyone, so I'm not saying who it is, here, but they edit AmPol articles, and though their personal politics are clear, they've never been disruptive that I can tell. ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPants Tell me all about it. 17:17, 5 May 2021 (UTC)
(talk page stalker) I've been thinking for some time about what "ethnocommunism" is supposed to mean, then I remembered File:Little Rock integration protest.jpg: "Race mixing is communism." --Rsk6400 (talk) 17:57, 5 May 2021 (UTC)
Interesting. In that case I am so an "ethnocommunist" as opposed to what? An "ethnocapitalist" (whatever that could be)? Idk, but I am mixed race so I guess I have to believe in it since I'm here. Yay! I can be an "ethnocommunist" with you Doug. --ARoseWolf 18:11, 5 May 2021 (UTC)
That one doesn't just quack, it waddles on webbed feet, lives in a pond and has a fondness for bread. ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPants Tell me all about it. 16:24, 6 May 2021 (UTC)
@JzG and MPants at work: magic CU dust confirms, blocked. Doug Weller talk 16:40, 6 May 2021 (UTC)
Doug Weller, I'm. shocked. Shocked! Guy (help! - typo?) 16:49, 6 May 2021 (UTC)
Awwww, it's a duck for sure. Waddle, waddle. I think Doug's part should be played by the mean little dog from the Nintendo days that laughed at you when you couldn't hit the flying ducks. ;-) --ARoseWolf 19:16, 6 May 2021 (UTC)
See Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Mikemikev for an interesting comment by someone else. Doug Weller talk 19:50, 6 May 2021 (UTC)
Thanks for looking into it. Again, it's just a hunch. Generalrelative (talk) 20:58, 6 May 2021 (UTC)

Administrators' newsletter – May 2021

News and updates for administrators from the past month (April 2021).

Administrator changes

removed Enchanter • Carlossuarez46

Interface administrator changes

removed Ragesoss

Guideline and policy news

Technical news

  • The user group oversight will be renamed to suppress. This is for technical reasons. You can comment at T112147 if you have objections.

Arbitration

Sent by MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 15:51, 7 May 2021 (UTC)

Books & Bytes – Issue 43

The Wikipedia Library

Books & Bytes
Issue 43, March – April 2021

  • New Library Card designs
  • 1Lib1Ref May

Read the full newsletter

Sent by MediaWiki message delivery on behalf of The Wikipedia Library team --11:11, 10 May 2021 (UTC)

I need help to stop this vandal

Hello again. This is Yuuyatails.

Months ago I had contacted you about a user whose username is Mini4WD, who doesn't like everyone else to touch the Mini 4WD article.

Right now, he's resorting to remove everything from it, effectively vandalize the article. I tried to revert the vandal edit, but this guy keeps removing contents and also resorting to showing hostile message against me in a edit summary, said he owns what he write and not everyone else.

Please do something about it.

Yuuyatails (talk) 15:57, 11 May 2021 (UTC)

Hi Doug - for the record, the user is claiming that he revokes his license to use content he wrote and an image he supplied. I reverted his edit[41], citing WP:NOREVOKE, but he has now reverted that revision and renamed the page. Butlerblog (talk) 16:39, 11 May 2021 (UTC)
@Yuuyatails and Butlerblog: I've blocked him from editing the article and told him to go to Commons about his claims, which are dubious. I'm not touching the article. Doug Weller talk 17:36, 11 May 2021 (UTC)

Here is your logic... “Coca Cola can delete all information on Wikipedia pages entitled, “soda pop”, “soft drink” and “cola”... and somehow Yuuyatails can wantonly delete massive amounts of content without any penalties... Wow... just Wow! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mini4WD (talk • contribs) 17:41, 11 May 2021 (UTC)

Mini4WD, please sign your comments, thank you. The logic here is, if information is unsourced it may be removed by anyone. Information that is properly sourced may not be removed without consensus agreement which is usually accomplished on the articles talk page. Even Coca-Cola can not remove sourced information that was added to the encyclopedia in accordance with guidelines (See WP:OWN). --ARoseWolf 18:47, 11 May 2021 (UTC)
User:Coca-Cola would be blocked on the spot anyway. Drmies (talk) 18:49, 11 May 2021 (UTC)
User:HerbalTea would be welcome though, at least on my talk page. --ARoseWolf 18:53, 11 May 2021 (UTC)
I need a hug from User:Nap, but I'm in the waiting room of an orthodontist. Drmies (talk) 19:08, 11 May 2021 (UTC)

Chengallur_Ranganathan

Hi Doug, you CSDed Chengallur_Ranganathan. However it was a bad-faith tagging by a now-blocked sock. (see Wikipedia:Teahouse#Are_these_articles_eligible_for_deletion for more nominated, which were de-tagged). Would you be willing to undelete as there are some established editors who don't believe these are clear G5s. Thanks either way. StarM 18:59, 11 May 2021 (UTC)

Just for any TPSers, Doug and I addressed this at the teahouse so it's all handled. StarM 20:09, 11 May 2021 (UTC)

Invisible versions of Racism in the United States

Hi Doug, in the history of Racism in the United States I see a dozen or so versions have been made invisible, starting with the one by Theurbanturban, and including nine of mine, but also some of other editors. Since you just edited User_talk:Theurbanturban, I suppose that they were hidden by you and maybe you hid more than you wanted to. --Rsk6400 (talk) 13:45, 12 May 2021 (UTC)

(talk page stalker) @Rsk6400: when admins rev-del revisions, they have to include every revision which contained the text they're deleting (usually copyvios or blatantly obvious libel, but all sorts of stuff which WP doesn't want on it's servers, including doxxing and the like), which means every edit until someone reverted the problematic text. So it's normal to see good edits immediately following a rev-del to be rev-del'd themselves.
There's often a revert at the end, where the offending material was removed by whomever spotted it, but the non-offending material left in place. If your actual contributions were removed, you are usually free to re-add them without worry. ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPants Tell me all about it. 13:52, 12 May 2021 (UTC)
Thanks for the explanation, but in this case the problematic edit was reverted immediately, and none of the later versions contained the problematic text. --Rsk6400 (talk) 14:10, 12 May 2021 (UTC)
@Rsk6400: good catch, I don't know how I managed to do that. Doug Weller talk 15:41, 12 May 2021 (UTC)

Precious anniversary

Precious
Eight years!
--Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:13, 14 May 2021 (UTC)
@Gerda Arendt: thanks, but what's the anniversary? Doug Weller talk 08:50, 14 May 2021 (UTC)
There's a link, no? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 09:19, 14 May 2021 (UTC)
@Gerda Arendt: doh! I clicked on the image, should have clicked on the "8 years". My eyes are getting old. :) Doug Weller talk 09:24, 14 May 2021 (UTC)
I should troll you, Doug, just for missing the link, but I'll be a good talk page stalker and go find something useful to edit. Happy Anniversary, though!! ;P --ARoseWolf 14:33, 14 May 2021 (UTC)

Thomas de Waal

Doug,

Will you just look in on this and make sure I am not doing anything that seems inappropriate from Wikipedia standards. I know I have reverted edits put in the article but I've tried staying objective as I have no connection, whatsoever, to the subject or regional conflict in question. As this is a BLP I am simply trying to keep eyes on it. I do not want to breach Wikipedia guidelines in the effort to do so. I just would like your perspective. Thanks, --ARoseWolf 17:25, 14 May 2021 (UTC)

Sorry, I have no idea and don't get involved in this area. Doug Weller talk 17:33, 14 May 2021 (UTC)
No need to say sorry. I understand completely. ;) --ARoseWolf 18:21, 14 May 2021 (UTC)

DS 2021 Review Update

Dear Doug Weller,

Thank you for participating in the recent discretionary sanctions community consultation. We are truly appreciative of the range of feedback we received and the high quality discussion which occurred during the process. We have now posted a summary of the feedback we've received and also a preview of some of what we expect to happen next. We hope that the second phase, a presentation of draft recommendations, will proceed on time in June or early July. You will be notified when this phase begins, unless you choose to to opt-out of future mailings by removing your name here.
--Barkeep49 & KevinL (aka L235) 21:05, 19 May 2021 (UTC)

User:Tracsstaff

Thanx for the partial block for User:Tracsstaff. Note, even if they were willing to follow the rules on the article, I believe their username is problematic. If you have any suggestions on how I could have handled the reverts, the edit summaries and what I wrote on the user's page, please let me know. Note, they did respond. It doesn't indicate that they understand/read any more about Wikipedia, but they did respond. I will take a look at the staff changes that the user tried to make for the infobox and if they are reflected in the webpage for TRACS, I'll make them.Naraht (talk) 20:57, 21 May 2021 (UTC)

Also, it appears you may have blocked them from editing the redirect page Transnational Association of Christian Schools, not the actual page Transnational Association of Christian Colleges and Schools. Could you please block them from the Actual page as well?Naraht (talk) 20:59, 21 May 2021 (UTC)

@Naraht: thanks, I've fixed that. I think what you said was ok. Do make the staff changes. Their use of the talk page so far as been less than constructive but I've given them links they need to read and told them they need to stop their personal attacks. You might want to start a section on the article talk page for them to make suggestions and point out what you've done. Maybe they can become a constructive COI editor. Doug Weller talk 15:30, 22 May 2021 (UTC)

Courtesy notice

I pinged you, but just dropping a courtesy notification that you are tangentially mentioned in this ANI thread: Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents#Pc031985 casting aspersions. GorillaWarfare (she/her • talk) 23:43, 23 May 2021 (UTC)

Suspected edit warring in Arthur Posnansky article

Judging from the edits to the Arthur Posnansky article and comments posted to the article's talk section, I strongly suspect that User 150.195.97.43, User 2604:2D80:6812:A500:F452:8713:6D39:8C57, User 2604:2D80:6812:A500:DAE:BD48:F031:8C2F, and User 2604:2D80:6812:A500:C95B:5084:2DA7:9F6E are all the same person. Recently, the same change and a variation of "discredited" to "disputed" have repeatedly from these IP addresses. Most recently, the same change as occurred at, 11:45, 23 May 2021, 11:25, 24 May 2021, AND 15:26, 24 May 2021, every time a different editors have changed it from "disputed" to "discredited". How does one deal with this weird mixture of edit warring and apparent sock puppetry? Paul H. (talk) 20:47, 24 May 2021 (UTC) OK, the 2604 addresses are the same range, and all the addresses geolocate to the same area. I've semi-protected the article for 3 months leaving he/her to use the talk page. If they continue to use IP addresses that make them look like separate editors, I may do more. Doug Weller talk 18:46, 25 May 2021 (UTC)

Block evasion (possible!)

Hello. Seems I noticed some possible block evasion from Korvex (talk · contribs), this his sock Editshmedt (talk · contribs) as I understand blocked by you, have similar topics and edits with those IPs 142.116.103.55 (talk · contribs · WHOIS), 142.116.0.52 (talk · contribs · WHOIS), 142.127.171.177 (talk · contribs · WHOIS), 142.127.154.241 (talk · contribs · WHOIS), 142.120.69.72 (talk · contribs · WHOIS) especially about Biblical numerology, Gematria, Muhammad and the Bible, Gabriel's Revelation, European wars of religion. So much similar edits and at article Biblical numerology restored edit of sock Editshmedt (talk · contribs) and at European wars of religion article too by listed IPs, 25 February 2021 and 8 March 2021. So I suspect to it is all the same user. Would be good if you check, seems to that user could be one obsessive sock editor. 109.92.10.14 (talk) 01:44, 25 May 2021 (UTC)

I'm convinced. Blocked the latest one, all the edits by the addresses above can be reverted as sock edits. Doug Weller talk 19:07, 25 May 2021 (UTC)

Random addition of sources and political statements in edit summaries by User:Sarakhanjunglee

Sarakhanjunglee (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) has repeatedly added sources in a random fashion to leave political statements such as:

  • Zionists want us killed[42] in Paracetamol
  • Palestinians are failures. Mahmoud Abbas is not even a Muslim, he's a Baha'i. Wake up Muslims[43] in Palestine 194
  • Sufi erdogan freemason only barking like dogs. All staged drama[44] in Islam in Palestine
  • No leader will tolerate khawarij extremists. Long live Widodo. What he's doing is right[45] Joko Widodo

The sources are not or only remotely connected to the text to which they are attached. Quite strange is the addition of Memoirs of Mr. Hempher, The British Spy to the Middle East to the see also-section of Apocrypha. The addition of a note with a Hadith text after the first word in the lead of Pleurisy is less randomish, but betrays a CIR issue.

Judging from previous warnings about similar behavior, I get the impression this user is not here to built an ecyclopedia (WP:NOTHERE). Should I go to ANI with this? –Austronesier (talk) 12:41, 26 May 2021 (UTC)

@Austronesier: yes. You could go to AE but I think ANI might be better. I did consider a topic ban but I'm not convinced it would make a difference and he'd end up blocked anyway. Doug Weller talk
Thanks, done! –Austronesier (talk) 18:20, 26 May 2021 (UTC)

Khazars

Doug, could some admin look at the shenanigans at this Khazar page? It might look like a content dispute. But two editors, one with just 600 edits who seems basically to be interested in the Austrian school of economics, the other with 50 (over 9 years) are teaming ("we") there to disrupt an article that has been fairly stable in this particular definition they contest. I don't think, since it comes under Arbpia, that the chap with just 50 edits to his name should be barging into the I/P area (500 required). All this was triggered by some itsy-bitsy Times of Israel paragraph long article by a tyro that a Qatari journalist jumped on the Khazars as Ashkenazi nonsense, to state it was a conspiracy theory. Well, it has been used that way by anti-Semites and the usual fringe lunatic crowd, but far too many historical books treatingd the theory, wrong as it almost certainly is, haven't described it as a conspiracy (rightly so, since many Jewish scholars have explored it seriously in the past). I expounded at some length on the groups that have hijacked it for those polemical-paranoid ends in the Khazars article and here, but it is fringe. Nishidani (talk) 15:45, 26 May 2021 (UTC)

@Nishidani: I've given the 50 edit editor an alert and told them not to edit the article. I had to read von Mises at Yale, that gave me a good inoculation. I try hard not to get involved with that stuff. Doug Weller talk 18:51, 26 May 2021 (UTC) Hm, a 3 month block for edit-warring[46] - he'd better not try that again. Doug Weller talk 18:57, 26 May 2021 (UTC)
Oh hell, Shrike has just pointed out the DS notice says portion and says that pseudoscience bit isn't relevant. The editor agrees. I'm not sure what is. I'm not going to be active for about 18 hours now however. Doug Weller talk 19:00, 26 May 2021 (UTC)
Doug Weller, Like I said earlier I don't have strong feelings about it. Just let make it clear change the notice and ECP that page if you think it belong I am not going to dispute it Shrike (talk) 20:08, 26 May 2021 (UTC)
Thanks Doug, and sorry for the bother. I prefer to handle these things on my own, but that situation was absurd. I know we must protect every editor's rights, Shrike. But we often forget that protecting the readers' rights to precise texts that do not mislead is equally important.Nishidani (talk) 20:17, 26 May 2021 (UTC)

The revert on https://wiki.riteme.site/wiki/Tradwife

Yesterday I edited the page https://wiki.riteme.site/wiki/Tradwife on the paragraph that defines the term by removing the sentence “submitting to male leadership” because that sentence is an opinion (even the citation reference https://web.archive.org/web/20200122154237/https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/01/opinion/sunday/tradwives-women-alt-right.html states itself as an opinion article). Defining something based on an opinion is essentially creating a strawman fallacy https://wiki.riteme.site/wiki/Straw_man (and also is against the wikipedia's guidelines https://wiki.riteme.site/wiki/Wikipedia:What_Wikipedia_is_not#Wikipedia_is_not_a_soapbox_or_means_of_promotion Even if it is not the opinion of the wikipedia's author, defining based on NYTime's author's opinion, is writing an opinion).

The idea that Tradwife are being "submitting themselves to male leadership" should be address on the next paragraph that talks about controversies (since controversies are opinions), not on the definition.

You reverted my contribution and sent me a Notice on my talk page https://wiki.riteme.site/wiki/User_talk:Fcolecumberri stating that I “have shown interest in gender-related disputes or controversies” (which I am not, I am only splitting opinions from definitions). On the paragraph you insinuated that I didn't “follow Wikipedia's policies” or “the page-specific restrictions” but you didn't specify which policy I am not following (If I am not following one, please tell me which. Do not only send me the link to the policies).

Fcolecumberri (talk) 20:00, 31 May 2021 (UTC)

Talk page stalker here... You waited almost five years before actually editing Wikipedia after registering your username, and you broke your silence to remove some words that were very well supported by the cited source, which was even quoted to show the supporting sentence. Binksternet (talk) 20:22, 31 May 2021 (UTC)
No, I created this account 5 years ago and then I remember to login before editing. I have edited on the past without remembering to log in (Actually part of me is regretting having log in because suddenly a discussion about the article is becoming a discussion about me as an Ad-Hominem fallacy). About the cited source; I don't know how an opinion on an opinion article is a “very well supported” way to define the meaning of a concept. Again, I am not saying that classifying “Tradwife” as “submissive” shouldn't be mentioned on the article. I am saying that that classification is an opinion and should not be on the sentence that defines the term. Fcolecumberri (talk) 14:20, 1 June 2021 (UTC)
Fcolecumberri, the correct place to have this discussion is on the article's talk page, not an individual user's talk page. FWIW though, the first three decentish sources I found by Googling the word (it wasn't one I'd come across before) all define the word in similar terms (Guardian, This Conversation, the Beeb). I doesn't seem like a particularly controversial description. GirthSummit (blether) 14:35, 1 June 2021 (UTC)
Girth Ok, I should have gone to the discussion page instead, that's true and I will continue the discussion there. About your internet search,you may find as many opinion articles as you want stating the same opinion, that doesn't mean that is not an opinion (the nature of the statement, that's an opinionated statement). Fcolecumberri (talk) 17:13, 1 June 2021 (UTC)

Invitation for Functionary consultation 2021

Greetings,

I'm letting you know in advance about a meeting I'd like to invite you to regarding the Universal Code of Conduct and the community's ownership of its future enforcement. I'm still in the process of putting together the details, but I wanted to share the date with you: 27 June, 2021. I do not have a time on this date yet, but I will let you soon. We have created a meta page with basic information. Please take a look at the meta page and sign up your name under the appropriate section.

Thank you for your time.--BAnand (WMF) 15:06, 2 June 2021 (UTC)

Patrick W. Skehan

Best regards. Some time ago someone marked an article with the stub template [47], and now, this user is blocked. I would appreciate if you could review it, to see if the template is still needed. Thank you.--Jairon Levid Abimael Caál Orozco (talk) 22:51, 5 June 2021 (UTC)

@Jairon Levid Abimael Caál Orozco: I'm afraid I think it's still appropriate. See WP:STUB. It was about 110 words, 750 characters, 4 sentences. Remember we tag articles as stubs to encourage others to improve them, and this one certainly needs improvement. Doug Weller talk 09:29, 6 June 2021 (UTC)
Anyway, I appreciate you taking the time to respond to me. I disagree with you, because the article is actually over 500 words long. However, I respect your opinion, and you made me see that the fact that it is marked is an invitation to improve it. Thank you very much.--Jairon Levid Abimael Caál Orozco (talk) 13:51, 6 June 2021 (UTC)
@Jairon Levid Abimael Caál Orozco: I was looking at the linked version, which of course is an old one, sorry. I agree with the stub removal. I don't like the first sentence in each paragraph of the recognitions section, they read as hype, eg "Skehan had the respect and friendship of his students and colleagues" which is unneeded, give facts, not commentary on the facts. The editorial work needs secondary sources also. Doug Weller talk 14:51, 6 June 2021 (UTC)

Administrators' newsletter – June 2021

News and updates for administrators from the past month (May 2021).

Administrator changes

added Ashleyyoursmile • Less Unless
removed Husond • MattWade • MJCdetroit • Carioca • Vague Rant • Kingboyk • Thunderboltz • Gwen Gale • AniMate • SlimVirgin (deceased)

Guideline and policy news

Technical news

  • Wikimedia previously used the IRC network Freenode. However, due to changes over who controlled the network with reports of a forceful takeover by several ex-staff members, the Wikimedia IRC Group Contacts decided to move to the new Libera Chat network. It has been reported that Wikimedia related channels on Freenode have been forcibly taken over if they pointed members to Libera. There is a migration guide and Wikimedia discussions about this.

Arbitration

Sent by MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 14:45, 9 June 2021 (UTC)

Regarding Hubpages

Hi Doug Weller, How are you doing? Coming to the point, I saw the homepage of Hubpages.com as blacklisted. In my opinion, if possible we should remove the homepage from the blacklist and we can exclude all the extension pages from that site and blacklist them. What do you say? - MRRaja001 (talk) 06:27, 9 June 2021 (UTC)

@MRRaja001: I guess I say why me? I don't know anything about this and I spent five minutes trying to find out something and failed. Was there a discussion? Are you sure it's blacklisted? Doug Weller talk 09:51, 9 June 2021 (UTC)
@Doug Weller: @Beetstra: @Graywalls: @JzG: Actually today when I was doing minor corrections to Hubpages article i saw this issue (saying hubpages.com is blacklisted. As far as I know, Hubpages is a very good website. They take copyright issues very seriously and won't even publish content if there is any plagiarism. I think we should resolve this issue. - MRRaja001 (talk) 11:34, 9 June 2021 (UTC)
@MRRaja001: a lot of its niche domains were deleted here.[48] I'll ping the nominator and deleter. @Graywalls and JzG: There have been various attempts to delist it, eg[49]. @Beetstra:, you've been involved with this before. Doug Weller talk 12:46, 9 June 2021 (UTC)
MRRaja001, MediaWiki talk:Spam-whitelist/Common requests#The official homepage of the subject of a page is describing the answer to this question. For Hubpages that was implemented as http://www.hubpages.com/index.php (I am not sure that it the best, but well), and executed in the external links section (I have duplicated it to the infobox). Dirk Beetstra T C 12:53, 9 June 2021 (UTC)
@Beetstra: Thanks for that! - MRRaja001 (talk) 13:22, 9 June 2021 (UTC)
I haven't combed through this recently but de-listing requests for HubPages have been made a handful of times and at least once by an executive officer of the company (as self-disclosed by the requester) and they've been denied every time IIRC. HubPages is a monetized article writing where there's basically no editorial oversight. The publication criteria is based on aesthetics, moderator opinion and traffic, not content accuracy. The articles are specifically designed to create money for the author and as such, if allowed, it encourages WP:CITESPAM on Wikipedia. I strongly oppose blanket white listing of HubPages or any of its niche domain. Graywalls (talk) 21:46, 10 June 2021 (UTC)
@Graywalls: @Beetstra: @Graywalls: @JzG: What I am saying is that what happens if we allow just the homepage. How does allowing the homepage of any website encourages WP:CITESPAM on Wikipedia. In my opinion blacklisting of any homepage of a website should be avoided unless spammy website or shortened link website which leads to spam. Since we allowed the homepage of Medium (website), we should also allow the homepage of Hubpages. Since both of these websites are of similar nature. - MRRaja001 (talk) 09:19, 11 June 2021 (UTC)

Kindly help

Hello Doug, I hope that you and your family are well. I need your help with a certain user and his edits on certain pages on the South Indian state of Kerala. It seems he has been warned prior to this for a similar activity (but the same objective) by another admin. The User:Kambliyil constantly puts in the terms "North Malabar" and "South Malabar" in pages on the villages towns and other places of the Northern districts in the state of Kerala. The administrative setup of India is Country-> State-> District. However he keeps putting in the aforementioned terms for no reason in the pages for districts and places in those districts of the state making it look like they exist officially.

One of the official Government(Kerala)-sites https://kerala.gov.in/districts lists the names of the districts at the administrative level. Another is http://districts.nic.in/districts.php?sid=KL From both its clear that there is the State and then of course the District. The "Region" is something that is completely amiss not just in India but most countries AFAIK and on Wiki too that I think holds. Also here is the "Region" list of India [[50]]

Please look at Kannur/Kannur district/Wayanad district/Kasaragod district/Kasaragod/Kozhikode district/Kozhikode/Malappuram district/Malappuram/Palakkad district/Palakkad. And I suspect User:Boschanot might be a sock0puppet if this user. I am no one to pass judgments but he around this same time is making these same kind of edits (among others).

Since time immemorial, the southwestern part of India, covering entire Kerala State was known as "Malabar" or "Malabar Coast". The entire west coast of the ancient polity of Tamilakam - which was present-day Kerala - was also called Malabar. From the early 1800s or so, when India was colonized, the British named the Northern part of the state as "Malabar district" before Malabar was always used (as were other terms) to mean entire Kerala with adjoining areas. It was only for the next 150 years or so till the formation of the state of Kerala that there was a place called "Malabar" (district). Since the 1950s, after Kerala's formation, there has never been at any level whatsoever, a formal or official term called Malabar (or North Malabar or South Malabar), in any sense. The entire state speaks the language of Malayalam in majority. Cultural differences are far more along the lines of religion and then caste than along district. In fact the main royal family in the Northern part of the state traces its origin to the primary royal family in the South of the state (as well as originates there) and the two have been in a tradition of mutual adoption of heirs for centuries.

I hope you do the needful and put this user in his place. As an admin you can ascertain whatever I have written to be correct. Hope you help. Regards.117.194.225.139 (talk) 13:14, 14 June 2021 (UTC) Also apologies for any seeming disruption of your Talk page my post may have caused. It was obviously 100% unintended. I can only edit by mobile right now and am not very conversant with it.117.194.232.198 (talk) 13:22, 14 June 2021 (UTC)117.194.233.24 (talk) 09:10, 15 June 2021 (UTC)

I've asked around as I really don't know enough about this, the suggestion I got was to ask at the Wikipedia:Noticeboard for India-related topics. Sorry to be so slow, and I hope that you and yours are well. Doug Weller talk 14:34, 15 June 2021 (UTC)

Alert notice

Hey Doug, I don't understand what the big box on my user page is. Can you please explain? Is it a warning, a flagging for being unruly or something else? Iskube (talk) 11:08, 18 June 2021 (UTC)

@Iskube: read it carefully again, it's just a standard alert about sanctions in a particular area. I've given myself similar notices showing that I'm aware of those areas. It means that we expect editors to be extra careful in those areas, and it also allows sanctions such as being banned from an area or being blocked so you can't edit at all being imposed by Administrators such as myself. Your talk page edits might be ok on a web forum but they are unacceptable on Wikipedia. Now you've been alerted in general and by me specifically for those talk page edits, what you need to do now is read Wikipedia:Talk page guidelines and follow them carefully. The same goes for edit summaries of course. Doug Weller talk 12:07, 18 June 2021 (UTC)
So what you are saying is that pointing out likely intelligence shills is not wanted on wikipedia? As I'm sure you admins are aware of the problem, may I ask why your strategy is to act super nice instead of confrontation? Iskube (talk) 13:03, 18 June 2021 (UTC)
@Iskube: WP:ANI is the place to complain about a specific editor. With some sort of evidence, not speculation. Speculation on the talk page like that isn't helpful, issues with the article based on guidelines and policies are. Doug Weller talk 14:35, 18 June 2021 (UTC)
It wasn't a complaint. I'm just curious what policies are in place to prevent wikipedia from allowing Western intelligence services to have their way in cases where this differs from objective truth. Iskube (talk) 18:38, 18 June 2021 (UTC)
@Iskube: WP:V WP:RS, WP:NPOV for a start. Doug Weller talk 19:13, 18 June 2021 (UTC)
It's a start, but all of those are easily gamed even with a fair amount of resources. I just don't think it's coincidental that all my favourite journalists are under attack as "not notable journalist" in the talk pages these days. Someone is clearly on a crusade against alternative media. I'll keep doing mine, within the rules of wikipedia. Have a good one sir. Iskube (talk) 10:55, 19 June 2021 (UTC)

Personal attacks

Despite F&F warning him to stop describing a famed scholar of medieval South Asia in deplorable (and might I say, childish) terms, White Horserider seems to be not learning any lesson.

1 - Your love for Cynthia is surely one for the ages.
2 his work is promoted by Cynthia just because it fits her narrative. BTW, Cynthia never came to India so how on earth she can examine inscriptions is beyond me
3 Lmao... You are obviously in love with Tablot's work.
4 Tablot travelled India only once and What about scholars who spent hours and hourse working on primmary evidences ???? ... And, No Cynthia seems fine to me this is first name of author.

Some stern warning might be necessary. TrangaBellam (talk) 16:29, 20 June 2021 (UTC)

This may also be relevant. Ravensfire (talk) 18:12, 21 June 2021 (UTC)
And White Horserider has been blocked as a sockpuppet of Showbiz826. Ravensfire (talk) 16:47, 24 June 2021 (UTC)
@Ravensfire: great. I've been busy with personal issues but was planning to look at the SPI. Doug Weller talk 11:46, 26 June 2021 (UTC)

IP at Battle of the Catalaunian Plains

Hi Doug, can you do something about the IP who keeps making unsourced changes to numbers at Battle of the Catalaunian Plains? Thanks.--Ermenrich (talk) 23:35, 25 June 2021 (UTC)

I semi-protected for three days. Might need more attempts to interact with the person later. Johnuniq (talk) 23:41, 26 June 2021 (UTC)

The Signpost: 27 June 2021

* Read this Signpost in full * Single-page * Unsubscribe * MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 20:14, 27 June 2021 (UTC)

Administrators' newsletter – July 2021

News and updates for administrators from the past month (June 2021).

Guideline and policy news

  • Consensus has been reached to delete all books in the book namespace. There was rough consensus that the deleted books should still be available on request at WP:REFUND even after the namespace is removed.
  • An RfC is open to discuss the next steps following a trial which automatically applied pending changes to TFAs.

Technical news

  • IP addresses of unregistered users are to be hidden from everyone. There is a rough draft of how IP addresses may be shown to users who need to see them. This currently details allowing administrators, checkusers, stewards and those with a new usergroup to view the full IP address of unregistered users. Editors with at least 500 edits and an account over a year old will be able to see all but the end of the IP address in the proposal. The ability to see the IP addresses hidden behind the mask would be dependent on agreeing to not share the parts of the IP address they can see with those who do not have access to the same information. Accessing part of or the full IP address of a masked editor would also be logged. Comments on the draft are being welcomed at the talk page.

Arbitration

Sent by MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 11:26, 3 July 2021 (UTC)

Shem HaMephorash has an RFC

Shem HaMephorash has an RFC for possible consensus. A discussion is taking place. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments on the discussion page. Thank you. Skyerise (talk) 13:55, 5 July 2021 (UTC)

Edit conflict/warring with multiple IP users

I made an edit on Y-chromosomal Aaron (which I noticed you've edited in the past, which is why I'm reaching out to you specifically, to WP:AVOIDEDITWAR).

  • A few hours later, the edit was undone by an IP user (72.34.94.194).
  • I tried to start a conversation on the talk page, by writing an explanation for my edit (per WP:AVOIDEDITWAR).
  • After a month with no reply, I reverted it back (with minor changes, and link to my post on the talk page in the summary).
  • 2 days later edit was again undone by another IP user (12.18.28.106), with no reason given.
  • A few minutes later, a 3rd IP user (2600:1004:b02f:ba9f...) did a rollback, restoring my edit.
  • 2 days later this was undone by a 4th IP user (2600:387:f:4b34::4) (with no other edits).

In addition to reporting anomalous activity, I would like to get this edit (which I worked hard on) resolved. Thanks. Yaakovaryeh (talk) 08:06, 8 July 2021 (UTC)

Libera #wikipedia-en-admins channel

Hi. I'm trying to get started on Libera, and the admin channel is invitation-only (as it was on Freenode). I saw you on the list of confirmed Libera accounts on meta, and have posted a diff for confirmation at #wikimedia-auth; do you know how long it usually takes? (IRC is not my strong suit.) I'd really appreciate an invitation to the admin channel. Don't know if it has to be real-time; I'm UTC−4/5, but flexible. My status is here. Thanks and all the best, Miniapolis 16:52, 12 July 2021 (UTC)

@Miniapolis: ha. I see you were on that channel. I asked there, no answer. I have no idea what's going on. I'll ask on the Functionaries list. Doug Weller talk 18:48, 12 July 2021 (UTC)
@Doug Weller: I see your account is on the -en-admins access list already, and as per this it looks like you should have had access for a few weeks now. You may need to /msg ChanServ invite #wikipedia-en-admins as it doesn't look like you've got a Wikimedia cloak at the moment.
@Miniapolis: I don't see your account on the access list for -en-admins; would you mind making adding a request to Wikipedia:IRC/Access requests and someone with the ability to add you should do so? Same thing about the Wikimedia cloak though, you'll likely need to /msg ChanServ invite #wikipedia-en-admins until you get a Wikimedia cloak.
Wikimedia cloaks can be requested per the instructions here, though there is a bit of a backlog at the moment. stwalkerster (talk) 19:04, 12 July 2021 (UTC)
@Stwalkerster: replied on irc but I'm not sure where to put /msg wmopbot cloak - and I filled out a form months ago. Never mind, I seem to have stumbled onto en-Admins just now. Thanks. Doug Weller talk 19:11, 12 July 2021 (UTC)
Thanks, Stwalkerster and Doug Weller. Doug, if you can would you invite me to #wikipedia-en-admins while I get cloaked here? (I'm cloaked on Libera.) All the best, Miniapolis 19:17, 12 July 2021 (UTC)
Doug Weller, I posted it at Libera. A wmopbot tab popped up; I clicked on it, answered a few questions and submitted it. They say it takes a little while. Good luck and all the best, Miniapolis 19:26, 12 July 2021 (UTC)

Mecklenburg Declaration

Hi, and sorry if I am not citing my source correctly. Please advise how I can add this new source of the Raleigh Minerva from Aug 10th, 1809? This is an earlier reference than the 1819 newspaper. I also have sources of some handwritten notes in the NC archives from a relative that talks about this and points out the Raleigh Minerva as well. Thank you very much, -mark — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mjohnson362 (talk • contribs) 18:21, 14 July 2021 (UTC)

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