User talk:Garamond Lethe/Archive 1

Archive 1

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Teahouse tip!

Hi Garamond! Great work on jumping into the Teahouse. I'm always super happy when anyone, especially new friendly editors, lend a hand, so thanks :) Just a tip - we actually have a few! But, one that I'd like to tell you about is our "talkback" template - which is used to tell other editors that you have left a comment for them on another page other than their own. So, when you answer a question at the Teahouse, you can drop off a "Teahouse talkback" template on their talk page letting them know. Some editors, and most new editors, don't know about the "watch" button just yet, so it's a good way to let them know that we've helped them out! You can find it here if you scroll down. And of course I encourage you to take a look at the content there in general. Thanks again Garamond, so so so happy to have you around! Sarah (talk) 14:00, 7 May 2012 (UTC)

Hi Sarah! Thanks for pointing out where the talkback template lived. I was looking for that by poking searching template:teahouse but didn't think to look in the Teahouse proper. I've now read the several other tips for editors that are listed there; in particular I take your point that pointing new users to jargon-filled documentation isn't necessarily the most helpful thing to do and I'll try to be better about that in the future. The Teahouse is a marvelous idea, btw. I'm really curious to see how well it scales up. Garamond Lethe(talk) 04:52, 8 May 2012 (UTC)

Teahouse talkback

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HI there - have got an answer for you on the issue of "Handling archaic spelling" - hope it helps!

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Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style/Spelling#Expand on archaic spelling

Would you like to open up a Request for Comment? That way we can get some other editors to offer their ideas on the matter. Ryan Vesey Review me! 02:12, 31 May 2012 (UTC)

Good idea. It's grant season here in real life so I might not get to this until the middle of next week. Garamond Lethe(talk) 21:49, 31 May 2012 (UTC)

Done. Garamond Lethe(talk) 08:48, 2 June 2012 (UTC)

Sequel

Hi, Thanks for stopping by my talk page. I knew there was a sequel, but I haven't read it or checked out its reviews. I'll have to look at them -- for a laugh if nothing else. :) Allan Eckert seems to be one of those writers that time wasn't kind to, his writing is criticized quite a bit these days for inaccuracies. But the only review I could find from the time the book came out was Kirkus'. Tlqk56 (talk) 15:00, 7 June 2012 (UTC)

ColdWood Interactive

I declined your speedy deletion request for ColdWood Interactive, because it didn't meet the criteria in WP:CSD#A7. An article about a company that merely asserts notability (doesn't have to demonstrate notability) doesn't qualify for speedy deletion. In this case, the article indicates that the company has produced three releases notable enough for their own article in Wikipedia, which is enough of an assertion of notability to save it from speedy deletion. You'd need to take this one to WP:AFD if you want it deleted. Thanks. ~Amatulić (talk) 17:57, 29 June 2012 (UTC)

Based on conversations elsewhere I realized I had misunderstood the criteria and asked that the CSD nomination be withdrawn the the talk page of the article. Thank for taking care of it! GaramondLethe 18:20, 30 June 2012 (UTC)

Abiogenesis, (Undid revision 500642739 by Sadettin (talk) Interesting quote, but I'm not sure it's relevant to spontaneous generation. Will be happy to discuss further on the talk page.)

Hi Garamond Lethe,

Aksemseddin wrote "It is a mistake to think that diseases emerges one by one in humans. The disease passes from one person to other through getting involved and this is by means of small unseen live seeds." and it is clearly showing that he was questioning "spontaneous generation" of diseases and he was thinking that there are microbes, living organisms( small unseen live seeds,) in the air much earlier than Lazzaro Spallanzani. Aksemseddin was a "scholar" and "medic" of the Ottoman Palace, he wrote that theory his book "Maddet ul Hayat" "Material of Life", even the name of the book is about Abiogenesis :)

So This is why I think that it is relevant with the topic

Waiting for your comments

Sadettin (talk) 08:01, 5 July 2012 (UTC)

Hi Sadettin,

I think you're conflating two very close and related concepts. The Aksemseddin quote is definitely related to the development of the germ theory of disease and microbiology, and I can give you a reasonably good cite for that:

"He put forth one of the first germ theories known with his argument in his "Maddet-ül Hayat” which follows: “It is wrong to assume that the diseases show up individually. The diseases are passed from one person to another through the seeds that are so little to see by bare eye". He is the first person in history to mention the existence of the microorganisms and he is deemed to be the father of Microbiology." from a book on scribd.

However, abiogenesis is something different: it's basically how you get from a soup of chemicals to a soup of chemicals where some macromolecules are self-reproducing and evolving; that's the beginning of life. I expect Aksemseddin thought that life began via direct divine intervention, but I'm not familiar enough with that body of work to know for certain. I can see where you might think that because early life and diseases are caused by such tiny organisms and that "spontaneous generation" has been used to describe both abiogenesis and proto-germ-theory that they must be related, but diseases came about long, long after life first appeared.

That said, I may be wrong. If you can track down a reliable source that discusses how Aksemseddin thought life begin, and his opinion is something other than miraculous divine intervention, then I'll be happy to take a look and work with you to get that information into the article.

Until then, you might want to consider adding this information to the Germ theory of disease article. I think it's a natural fit there. (And does Aksemseddin have his own article under another name? I couldn't find anything; he's certainly notable enough to deserve one.)

If that explanation has left you confused, let me know and I'll track down an actual biologist for you to discuss this with. I've dabbled in this area for several years but it's been mostly on the computer science/virtual chemistry side of the house.

Best,

09:04, 5 July 2012 (UTC)

Kilometres per hour

Hi Garamond

IMHO, Ornaith is trying not to lose face, but is digging a deeper and deeper hole for himself by questioning everything that I write. You might like to mention WP:DEADHORSE to him. Martinvl (talk) 01:19, 9 July 2012 (UTC)

Hi Martinvl (and perhaps Ornaith): Saving face is a fine thing; that's why I asked you privately if you wanted me to email you a certain article. This may sound naive (and perhaps even hokey) but I really do hope both of you are satisfied with the end result (and that both of you will have found this process tedious enough that both of you will slow down the next time you're faced with a dispute that could escalate).

And besides, I cut my teeth on talk.origins, the grassy spot on USENET where the dead horse used to be. I wouldn't dream of invoking WP:DEADHORSE for any fight that hadn't gone on at least a couple of years.... ;-)

GaramondLethe 04:28, 9 July 2012 (UTC)

Hi - a refinement on your 1810 quotaton for kilometre. From 'The Oxfod Dictionary (online):

Entry: 1810 Naval Chron. 24 301 Killometer, 1000 M.

Citation: kilometre | kilometer, n.

Second edition, 1989; online version June 2012. <http://www.oed.com/view/Entry/103403>; accessed 13 July 2012. Earlier version first published in New English Dictionary, 1901.)

<grin> Hey, the compact version is the OED too, just in tiny, tiny, tiny type.... I've replaced my cite with yours. What did you mean by "Earlier version"? GaramondLethe 20:28, 14 July 2012 (UTC)

If you want on-line access to the OED, go to your public library. My public library (run by Hampshire County Council) has a licence that allows all members on-line access to the OED. I just have to type in my library card number when I log in to the OED site.

You have a lot of very useful material about the origins of "kilometre per hour", most of which I support (I have my own views about a few points, if I didn't, I would not be capable of independant thought, but that can come later).

Martinvl (talk) 09:53, 13 July 2012 (UTC)

--86.111.117.167 (talk) 08:06, 18 July 2012 (UTC)== Your Teahouse Question ==

Hello, Garamond Lethe/Archive 1. Your question has been answered at the Teahouse Q&A board. Feel free to reply there!
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Entropy and life

Hi,

Link to my paper was put here many years ago by one of the contributors (I do not even know who).

Recently Marcin Ostajewski, Ph.D. student at UMK, Torun / PAN, Warsaw removed fraudulently this link, falsely accusing me of not having Ph.D. and being a fraud. I am considering to take this matter to court and to ask that he will be removed disciplinarily from Ph.D. program. I do not know his motives. After I caught him discrediting me on several websites, he wrote to me an apologize letter which is dishonest and does not tell the truth.

Here is what Marcin Ostajewski (from Torun, Poland) originally wrote here as Panszpik: (cur | prev) 16:49, 13 June 2012‎ Panszpik (talk | contribs)‎ . . (15,164 bytes) (-305)‎ . . (/* External links */ - →‎External links: The first link leads to a webpage of pseudoscientist who tries to sell devices that "cure cancer and normalise ones aura", the other one leads to a webpage that does not exist any more.) (undo)

BTW, the drawing of the thermodynamic system was made and put here by Libb Thims and is a copyright violation of my drawing in the paper "Life on Earth - flow of Energy and Entropy": http://www.digital-recordings.com/publ/publife.html I never gave him permission to do so. Also he changed the temperatures involved (why ?). So drawing does not make any scientific sense at this moment. It should be replaced with figure No.1 and No.2 from my paper. One can also use just figure No.1 and indicate temperatures which are on figure No.2

Best regards, Dr.Marek Roland, Canada

www.digital-recordings.com

Dr. Roland,

First, welcome to wikipedia. I'm sorry that your first interaction here is probably going to be a little rough.

At the moment, you are editing without the benefit of an account. While there is nothing wrong with this, having an account will let us associate your comments with you, rather than with an IP address that might change from time to time.

The appropriate place to discuss the Entropy and life article is on the talk page of that article. If you click on this link you'll be taken there directly. I'll be responding to your note there. If you decide to respond, please append four tildes (~~~~) to your response. This will sign and timestamp your reply.

Sincerely,

GaramondLethe 08:27, 18 July 2012 (UTC)

Teahouse talkback: you've got messages!

Hello, Garamond Lethe/Archive 1. Your question has been answered at the Teahouse Q&A board. Feel free to reply there!
Please note that all old questions are archived after 2-3 days of inactivity. Message added by Writ Keeper ⚇♔ 13:27, 18 July 2012 (UTC). (You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{teahouse talkback}} template.

A beer for you!

Cheers! Jim1138 (talk) 08:15, 19 July 2012 (UTC)

I appreciate that --- thanks! GaramondLethe 08:20, 19 July 2012 (UTC)

Ornaith and the SPI discussion at the Teahouse

As the SPI has been re-opened and Ornaith unblocked, I don't know if you want to delete your last comment on the thread at the Teahouse? if you do you can remove my subsequent comment as well. NtheP (talk) 18:53, 24 July 2012 (UTC)

Looks like one minute after you posted this Ornaith was blocked again.

15:48, 24 July 2012 Toddst1 (talk | contribs) blocked Ornaith (talk | contribs) (account creation blocked) with an expiry time of indefinite (Abusing multiple accounts: see Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/DeFacto)

18:39, 24 July 2012 Toddst1 (talk | contribs) unblocked Ornaith (talk | contribs) (per request)

18:54, 24 July 2012 AGK (talk | contribs) blocked Ornaith (talk | contribs) (account creation blocked) with an expiry time of indefinite ({{Checkuserblock-account}})

I'll make a note at the Teahouse. Thanks for pointing that out -- I appreaciate it.

GaramondLethe 20:17, 24 July 2012 (UTC)

Hi Garamond! Just a reminder about a few things at the Teahouse - first, thank you so much for participating. If you have interest, it'd be great to have you add your profile to the Host page! You practically are one. :) You can find that page here. Second, please familiarize yourself with our host tips and the host responsibilities page. There you can learn a bit more about what makes us different - we greet each visitor (everyone likes to be welcomed when they visit a new place!), use as little wiki jargon and links to policies as possible and keep it friendly and simple. That's one of the things that makes the Teahouse so successful - we avoid links when necessary and just give our visitors the answers straight up - it's a proven winning cup of tea :) Also, I encourage you to invite other editors to the Teahouse to find help. Right now we have more people answering questions than we do visiting, so we can use all the help we can get. Thanks so much for all you do on Wikipedia! :) SarahStierch (talk) 17:24, 30 July 2012 (UTC)

Mbreht SPI

Your comments are invited here: Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Mbreht. -- Brangifer (talk) 23:56, 5 August 2012 (UTC)

A pie for you!

I'm sorry, this WikiLove thing doesn't have diet coke. :-/ Jpgill86 (talk) 18:58, 5 September 2012 (UTC)

Yeah, I think JavaScript is pretty boring, too....  ;-) GaramondLethe 19:05, 5 September 2012 (UTC)

Abiogenesis

In my experience, when a creationist says we "don't have access to" something, they generally mean to imply that we have no possible way to get any evidence at all, even indirectly. Thus my comment. :-) Arc de Ciel (talk) 20:47, 23 September 2012 (UTC)

Speaking from my experience spending <mumble> years at Talk Origins, that's not a view that's consistently held: it ends up being epistemological nihilism, and that is inconsistent with religious belief. But you already knew that.

Dan has also raised a separate issue that's much more interesting: if Miller and Urey were wrong about the composition of the early atmosphere (and that's the consensus viewpoint as I understand it), why should we be citing them in an encyclopedia article? If you're coming from a tradition where texts are either completely right or completely wrong, that's an understandable question.

All that said, I'm treating Dan like any other editor until he self-identifies as a creationist (and I'll probably go on treating him like any other editor even after he did so). GaramondLethe 03:52, 24 September 2012 (UTC)

I never said I would treat anyone differently based on personal inferences, only on their past edits. :-) My understanding is that M&U is one of the key experiments from a historical perspective (and probably the one that had the most impact on the public) - and that while the current knowledge is better, the environment they used was still close (thus use of the word "similar" rather than "the same as"). Arc de Ciel (talk) 03:35, 25 September 2012 (UTC)

"day" parameter of cite templates

Hi, Garamond. Regarding this edit, the "day" parameter in cite templates is deprecated so it should not be used anymore. Generally use "date" unless only the year and month are known, in which case you should use "year" and "month" but not "date". See Template:Cite#Deprecated for more details. Cheers, Jason Quinn (talk) 01:45, 1 October 2012 (UTC)

Hi Jason. Thanks for both the fix and letting me know what was going on — I really appreciate it.

Best,

GaramondLethe 02:23, 1 October 2012 (UTC)

Your welcome

You are welcome. I don't mind at all. If you create any other pages I don't mind reviewing them at all. If you have questions don't be afraid to leave me a message on my talk page. --Clarkcj12 (talk) 16:20, 1 October 2012 (UTC)

Teahouse talkback: you've got messages!

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DYK nomination of Parable of the sunfish

Hello! Your submission of Parable of the sunfish at the Did You Know nominations page has been reviewed, and there still are some issues that may need to be clarified. Please review the comment(s) underneath your nomination's entry and respond there as soon as possible. Thank you for contributing to Did You Know! Allen3 ^talk 15:23, 2 October 2012 (UTC)

Talkback

Hello, Garamond Lethe. You have new messages at Wikipedia:Requests for comment/Syntax differentiation in editing window.
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I, Jethrobot ^{drop me a line} (note: not a bot!) 05:27, 5 October 2012 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Mesoscale Modeling Software

If this is the first article that you have created, you may want to read the guide to writing your first article.

You may want to consider using the Article Wizard to help you create articles.

A tag has been placed on Mesoscale Modeling Software requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section A3 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because it is an article with no content whatsoever, or whose contents consist only of external links, a "See also" section, book references, category tags, template tags, interwiki links, a rephrasing of the title, or an attempt to contact the subject of the article. Please see Wikipedia:Stub for our minimum information standards for short articles. Also please note that articles must be on notable subjects and should provide references to reliable sources that verify their content.

If you think that the page was nominated in error, contest the nomination by clicking on the button labelled "Click here to contest this speedy deletion" in the speedy deletion tag. Doing so will take you to the talk page where you can explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. You can also visit the page's talk page directly to give your reasons, but be aware that once a page is tagged for speedy deletion, it may be removed without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag yourself, but do not hesitate to add information that is consistent with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. If the page is deleted, you can contact one of these administrators to request that the administrator userfy the page or email a copy to you. ⁓ Hello71 22:08, 5 October 2012 (UTC)

Re: DYK submission for Parable of the sunfish

It is up to whether you wish to withdraw the nomination. DYK traditionally has been willing to work with most nominators and usually does not fail a nomination unless there is a problem that can not be fixed by editor effort (e.g. article has previously appeared at DYK or has been deleted) or if the nominator does not make progress addressing concerns in a reasonable time period (noms are usually given a week to show serious progress after the initial review and have been known to undergo multiple review cycles).

All this being said, I can not promise to be available to preform additional reviews in a timely manner. If you have responded to the most recent comments to the nomination and no one has followed up after a day or two, feel free to place a note on the nomination, beginning with {{subst:DYK?again}} asking for another reviewer. --Allen3 ^talk 11:21, 7 October 2012 (UTC)

Thank you

	:)
	I really appreciate the barnstar and I'm so glad you stuck around! heather walls (talk) 21:24, 14 October 2012 (UTC)

Talkback

Hello, Garamond Lethe. You have new messages at Wikipedia_talk:Teahouse/Host_lounge.
Message added 00:52, 18 October 2012 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

SarahStierch (talk) 00:52, 18 October 2012 (UTC)

Talkback

Hello, Garamond Lethe. You have new messages at Go Phightins!'s talk page.
Message added 17:55, 28 October 2012 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

Go Phightins! 17:55, 28 October 2012 (UTC)

DYK for Parable of the sunfish

Yngvadottir (talk) 08:03, 1 November 2012 (UTC)

Sunfish

Formatting of pics. I don't know how to get around the problem that you referred to. When I changed the pics, the problem didn't occur. Not on my screen.... yet it does occur with some articles. It also happens sometimes if there is a bullet-pointed list.

So I don't know either what causes the problem or how to get around it.

Sorry I can't be helpful!

Amandajm (talk) 09:08, 2 November 2012 (UTC)

One possibility is to create a small gallery and put the pics side by side. The format for creating a gallery is on my User page, if you want to cut and paste it, and change your options. There are two ways of doing it. See my pics.

Amandajm (talk) 09:29, 2 November 2012 (UTC)

Mdash vs ndash

Hi Garamond and thanks for picking up the GA review. Just a note, per WP:MDASH a spaced ndash is an acceptable alternative to mdashes. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 03:35, 3 November 2012 (UTC)

Thanks – I have had cause to read WP:MDASH but it isn't yet under my fingers. (Feel free to continue to comment here or at the review; I'm expecting to learn more from you than you learn from me.) GaramondLethe 03:53, 3 November 2012 (UTC)

• LOL. I'll drop most of my comments at the review. I've glanced at the parable of the sunfish article and may take a more in-depth look after I'm done my current project (a postcolonial look at Armijn Pane's Kami, Perempuan). — Crisco 1492 (talk) 04:02, 3 November 2012 (UTC)

Hello, Garamond Lethe. Please check your email; you've got mail!
It may take a few minutes from the time the email is sent for it to show up in your inbox. You can at any time by removing the {{You've got mail}} or {{ygm}} template.

HostBot Automated Metrics code posted

Hi Garamond Lethe. I posted this to the lounge, but I wanted to let you know personally, since it took me a while to respond: I've finally got the automated Teahouse metrics code up on GitHub. There are several outstanding issues that need to be fixed, and only minimal doc at this point... it's a work in progress. Still, you should check it out (literally and figuratively), and feel free to document any issues, suggest improvements, make push requests, etc. - J-Mo ^{Talk to Me} _{Email Me} 03:29, 14 November 2012 (UTC)

Sweet! I'm travelling until the end of the week and might not get a chance to look at this before then, but you definitely have me interested. Thanks for remembering! GaramondLethe 14:37, 14 November 2012 (UTC)

RE: Illinois-Indiana Sea Grant

First, let me thank you for all of the helpful suggestions and edits you provided for the page. I have resubmitted it for acceptance after making nearly all of the changes you provided. If you have the opportunity to review it and make any other changes of note, please feel free and let me know. Once again - thank you.

J brown99 (talk) 16:52, 14 November 2012 (UTC)

Nonconnah77's edits.

I saw you reverted some of Nonconnah77's edits that changed Murder to Killing regarding Henry Marrow. I think he changed this in regard to the discussions ongoing at Talk:Killing of Henry Marrow. He was trying to push the idea that describing the killing with sources cited from Tyson's book was a WP:BLP issue. Other editors commented and it looks like the decision was made to change murder to killing there. So Nonconnah77 decided to follow suit on the other related pages. Since the discussions on that page led to the change, I think that edit at least, might have been somewhat good faith. Thank you for your vigilance though, and more input from more users on the discussions there is always welcome. -- JoannaSerah (talk) 17:09, 15 November 2012 (UTC)

Ah, ok, I'll revert my changes later today if you don't get to them first. Thanks for letting me know! GaramondLethe 17:56, 15 November 2012 (UTC)

SF ?

Hi. I saw that you added yourself to the SF list. Are you living here or visiting here? Let me know. Siko, Heather and I want to hang out :) SarahStierch (talk) 01:20, 7 December 2012 (UTC)

I'm living up in Livermore and try to make it into SF at least three weekends a month. If you're going to the edit-a-thon on the 15th I'll be sure to say hello. (Speaking of, I should sign up for that while I'm thinking of it....) GaramondLethe 01:45, 7 December 2012 (UTC)

I had previous plans so I wont' be able to make it to the edit-a-thon, but let's surely try to connect soon! SarahStierch (talk) 20:58, 7 December 2012 (UTC)

Sunfish

Hi Garamond, any news on the Parable of the sunfish? — Crisco 1492 (talk) 05:32, 5 December 2012 (UTC)

If you don't see any progress in 12 hours, go ahead and fail it. GaramondLethe 22:20, 5 December 2012 (UTC)

Ok, back from wikibreak. GaramondLethe 09:11, 6 December 2012 (UTC)

Shutting down for the evening (it's 4a). GaramondLethe 12:00, 6 December 2012 (UTC)

• No need to push yourself too hard, we've both got some crazy schedules by the looks of it. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 13:15, 6 December 2012 (UTC)

• Looks like we're almost there. Not much left. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 09:15, 13 December 2012 (UTC)

Edit-a-thon tomorrow (Saturday) in Oakland

Hi, I hope you will be joining us tomorrow afternoon at the Edit-a-thon at Tech Liminal, in Oakland. We'll be working on articles relating to women and democracy (and anything else that interests you). It's sponsored by the California League of Women Voters, Tech Liminal, and me.

If this is the first you are hearing of this event, my apologies for the last-minute notice! I announced it on the San Francisco email list and by a banner on your watchlist, but I neglected to look at the San Francisco invitation list until this evening. If you can't make it this time, I hope to see you at a similar event soon! -Pete (talk) 04:57, 15 December 2012 (UTC)

Parable of the Sunfish

All right, so I took a gander at it:

• Copy editing, with focus on removing redundancy
• Removed "p." from {{rp}}
• Conformed to WP:MOSQUOTE
• Added some {{clarify}} tags (reasons included within tags)
• Removed some inline quotes to make the article flow a bit better

—Prof. Squirrel (talk) 16:27, 17 December 2012 (UTC)

Your common.css page

Hello. I want to notify you that your page User:Garamond Lethe/common.css appears at the Category:Wikipedia pages with incorrect protection templates due to it includes the following template:

• {{pp-protected}}

This is because that template was copied by mistake into your page. As I am not an admin I cannot remove it by myself because .css pages can be edited only by the owner of the page and admins. Considering that the page is not protected, and the addition of the template will not do so, could you please remove the template from your page? Thank you so much. Tbhotch.^™ Grammatically incorrect? Correct it! See terms and conditions. 04:45, 19 December 2012 (UTC)

 Done GaramondLethe 08:15, 19 December 2012 (UTC)

Teahouse talkback: you've got messages!

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Theory of Literature again

Hi Garamond, hope you are enjoying the holidays. If you have the time, do you think you could give Wellek and Warren's Theory of Literature another look? I'm planning to go for FA in the new year. BTW, I asked Truthkeeper88 to help check the content summary. If we get 3 editors to agree to its quality, that should be enough for FAC. BBTW, I finally read ABC of Reading. It was... interesting, although I found (perhaps incorrectly) that his main theoretical points were pretty much made by page 100 or so, with the lengthy examples list "a good offense" against absolutism/rationalism. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 00:19, 26 December 2012 (UTC)

Hey, Crisco, I'll be happy to take another look. I'm on travel until Jan 15 or so and my notes are at home, so it may be late Jan before I've done a complete review. I will try to give it another look for readability before then. If you want to submit before that, that's fine with me. As to ABC, Pound it really best in small doses. Nietzsche is like that, too. Still, for bon mots... "Real education must ultimately be limited to men who INSIST on knowing, the rest is mere sheep-herding." (p. 84) Lovely as a slogan, but not particularly useful when it comes to the practice of teaching or learning.... Hope the holidays are treating you well. Best, GaramondLethe 00:45, 26 December 2012 (UTC)

• Yeah, I'm in no big hurry. My exams'll be from 7 to 15 January, so right now is crunch time. I found that quote interesting, although I guess its usefulness could be debated. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 06:59, 26 December 2012 (UTC)

Teahouse talkback: you've got messages!

Hello, Garamond Lethe/Archive 1. Your question has been answered at the Teahouse Q&A board. Feel free to reply there!
Please note that all old questions are archived after 2-3 days of inactivity. Message added by Gtwfan52 (talk) 06:30, 2 January 2013 (UTC). (You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{teahouse talkback}} template.

A request for you to participate in the talkpage discussion at "Talk:History of the metric system"

Hi Garamond Lethe, I noticed that although you undid two of my edits to the "History of the metric system" article, that your edit summary only covered one of them. You didn't explain why you undid my replacement of the "vc" flag from the Craig cite (a flag which was controversially removed by another editor after a serious question mark was put on the reliability of that source by another editor). If the latter change was a mistake, please let me know so we can restore it - otherwise please help us to understand your reasoning for that by participating in the discussion on the talkpage. Perhaps you could also elaborate there on your reasoning for not requiring the "such as..." generality to be verifiable from reliable sources. Thanks. MeasureIT (talk) 20:09, 7 January 2013 (UTC)

Discussions about a given article should occur on the talk page of that article. GaramondLethe 05:45, 8 January 2013 (UTC)

Sorry if I wasn't clear. It is being discussed on the talk page of that article, I was inviting you to elaborate on your reasoning for one of your changes and to help us by providing a reason for your other change, there, at: "Talk:History of the metric system". Thanks. MeasureIT (talk) 07:29, 8 January 2013 (UTC)

Reflections on Trusting Trust

Hi. I want to talk about our edits to section Reflections on Trusting Trust in Backdoor (computing). You wrote "the new version changes the sense of the surrounding text too much. "Same" is the important word here". You are perfectly right! The word "same" really matters. And that is why I deleted it. I read the PhD paper by David A. Wheeler and there is no any "same backdoors" in the paper. So, this "same backdoors" are questionable, so I removed them. So, may I remove this "same backdoors" again? Safinaskar (talk) 01:27, 13 January 2013 (UTC)

Will respond on that talk page. GaramondLethe 02:10, 13 January 2013 (UTC)

Theory of Literature

Hi Garamond, jut a heads up that I've nominated the article at FAC if you want to drop by. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 05:20, 18 January 2013 (UTC)

Cool! I think I will.... GaramondLethe 07:47, 18 January 2013 (UTC)

• Thanks! Just finished my exams yesterday so I thought I might as well get some quality article work done (while working on my thesis on the history of novel adaptations in Indonesian cinema, naturally). — Crisco 1492 (talk) 07:54, 18 January 2013 (UTC)

• I'll look over a few other FA reviews before diving in. Am I expected to remain (mostly) silent since I participated in the GA review? GaramondLethe 08:51, 18 January 2013 (UTC)

• No, if you want to participate fully that's fine as you aren't a major contributor to the article (by edit count). I've helped at FA reviews where I did the GA review before, like at "Bloody Bill" Anderson and Clarence 13X. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 08:57, 18 January 2013 (UTC)

• Since it seems they are highly against a detailed summary (i.e. treating Theory as theory) I've started a bare bones summary here. I'll ping you once it's completed. Although, to be honest, I don't think it educates readers nearly as much. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 23:46, 19 January 2013 (UTC)

• Before you get too involved with that project, you have access to JSTOR, right? If I'm reading the initial comments correctly, it's the over-reliance on the text that's causing most of the problem. Can we reconstruct what we have now by ferreting cites out of JSTOR? If you want to send me a couple dozen papers I'll start pounding through them. GaramondLethe 01:31, 20 January 2013 (UTC)

• Nope, I depended on WP:RX to get the sources. My university may, but we're on break. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 01:34, 20 January 2013 (UTC)

• Thinking of just withdrawing at this point, as a) that's a huge pile of texts to look at, several of which I don't think I'll be able to get in Indonesia, and as such will require more time to work through that the delegates are going to give and b) having the Theory of Literature without the theory, like they seem to be requesting, is not doing any justice to the book. Thoughts? — Crisco 1492 (talk) 02:19, 20 January 2013 (UTC)

• BTW, do you know how to open a Daisy file? I'm assuming you need special software (which I don't have) — Crisco 1492 (talk) 07:10, 20 January 2013 (UTC)

• The Open Library site is pretty bad. I ended up making a second account and when given a choice choose "Read in Browser". That worked without adding any additional software, but if you don't choose that the first time you never see it again. GaramondLethe 07:22, 20 January 2013 (UTC)

• They offer that? Don't think I saw it last time. I'll check it out. Working on a film article now. Shame the DVD hasn't been released yet, I could probably take this at least to GA. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 07:43, 20 January 2013 (UTC)

• Thanks for the scan, replying here as the modem I'm on now isn't exactly keen on megabytes of downloading to open a page. I'll probably work on ToL off and on over a couple months... films are much less stressful, and I'm starting to get a queue. BTW, if you like history (even if it's a little propagandic) you might enjoy reading Pengkhianatan G30S/PKI... the events outlined there are one of the reasons Marxist sociology of literature was so late in reaching Indonesia (my lecturers say that the New Order government essentially forced them to be structuralists). — Crisco 1492 (talk) 15:24, 20 January 2013 (UTC)

• It sounds like I'm not going to be able to talk you out of withdrawing then. I've arranged to get JSTOR access today and will try to make a pile of them. Should I email them to you and let you download them once you get back to university? And thanks for the reading recommendation—on my list! GaramondLethe 16:33, 20 January 2013 (UTC)

  Oh, no need to go out of your way... RX is usually pretty fast (they got me the jstor references I'm using now) — Crisco 1492 (talk) 22:54, 20 January 2013 (UTC)

Congrats... You gave an awesome answer in the Teahouse!

Hi! I really enjoyed the way you welcomed the Teahouse guest who was asking about a conflict with Western Europe. You totally took the 'heated-dispute-edge' right off with your opening and then calmly and helpfully explained just what she needed to know about our reliable sourcing standards. Thanks for doing that!

Also, in case you were wondering, we're trying a new experiment centered around 'acknowledgements' in the Teahouse. If you see someone doing something awesome, find the Badge that fits best and share it with them. More details are linked on the Badge itself. Cheers!

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Ocaasi ^{t | c} 04:01, 24 January 2013 (UTC)

• Thank you. That actually means quite a bit to me. I might not be a newbie any more after all.... GaramondLethe 04:47, 24 January 2013 (UTC)

A cup of tea for you!

Thanks for your extensive and patient replies at EFT, I am hoping to get to read and absorb them today... here's a cup of tea for your efforts! Zad68 16:31, 24 January 2013 (UTC)

Thank you, I really do appreciate that. GaramondLethe 16:42, 24 January 2013 (UTC)

Edit-a-thon Saturday

Hey there, just a quick reminder about the edit-a-thon you signed up for tomorrow afternoon at Tech Liminal. Hope to see you! -Pete (talk) 03:51, 26 January 2013 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

The Civility Barnstar

Your thorough, interesting and readable explanation of why the EFT review article which looked good on the surface wasn't really suitable was one of the most educational things I've read on Wikipedia in a while, and would have been enough for a barnstar. But, your heartfelt response to the other editor ("I want to make sure to tell you that you did everything right...") that went beyond just civil and arrived all the way at human decency, resulting in the end of a long discussion, a compromise and a better article, make this barnstar beyond well earned. Zad68 00:26, 27 January 2013 (UTC)

I don't see the point of "barnstars" and I don't even have a Wikipedia account, but I also came here from EFT (having been reading a Web site about it, and wondering whether it was the nonsense that it seemed). Your commentary on the talk page is excellent in two ways: (i) you clearly explained what was wrong with the kook citations, and adequately rebutted them, and (ii) you managed to keep your temper and be polite. As somebody who gets very angry almost immediately about anything, I am very impressed. 86.174.188.81 (talk) 08:59, 27 January 2013 (UTC)

I'm very pleased that the extended discussion has been useful beyond its immediate participants, and I'm very, very grateful for the kind words. GaramondLethe 21:51, 27 January 2013 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

	The Random Acts of Kindness Barnstar
	This was such a fantastic answer that I thought it was worth highlighting - you've already got the badge, so here's a star instead. Thanks for all the work you do at the Teahouse, Garamond; you're great asset there. Yunshui 雲‍水 10:11, 28 January 2013 (UTC)

Thanks! Glad you enjoyed it, and thanks for the compliment! GaramondLethe 12:54, 28 January 2013 (UTC)

Talkback

Hello, Garamond Lethe. You have new messages at Abhidevananda's talk page.
Message added 14:33, 28 January 2013 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

Abhidevananda (talk) 14:33, 28 January 2013 (UTC)

Talkback

Hello, Garamond Lethe. You have new messages at Cornelius383's talk page.
Message added 16:28, 28 January 2013 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

Cornelius383 (talk) 16:28, 28 January 2013 (UTC)

A starbarn for you!

		The Socratic Barnstar
		You deserve a barnstar to attempt to solve disputes related to Prabhat Ranjan Sarkar articles! Best, Tito Dutta (talk) 16:59, 28 January 2013 (UTC)

Well, it may be a little premature, but thanks for the thought! GaramondLethe 17:52, 28 January 2013 (UTC)

Talkback

Hello, Garamond Lethe. You have new messages at Abhidevananda's talk page.
Message added 17:07, 28 January 2013 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

Abhidevananda (talk) 17:07, 28 January 2013 (UTC)

Talkback

Hello, Garamond Lethe. You have new messages at Abhidevananda's talk page.
Message added 19:36, 28 January 2013 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

Abhidevananda (talk) 19:36, 28 January 2013 (UTC)

Minor edit!

I have made minor change here. Actually whenever I see space at the beginning of a sentence, my fingers automatically move to the edit button! Hope it is okay with you (or you can revert it) --Tito Dutta (talk) 18:00, 29 January 2013 (UTC)

I'm staring at the diff and while I see the layout is different, I can't figure out why. Can you point me to the change you made? Is there an extra space in my signature? Thanks! GaramondLethe 18:06, 29 January 2013 (UTC)

Here --Tito Dutta (talk) 18:07, 29 January 2013 (UTC)

Oh, gross. Yes, thanks for catching that! GaramondLethe 18:10, 29 January 2013 (UTC)

Alright! Can you suggest me what to do with this? They deleted whole article, so my revet was correct there! But, the way they are criticizing us for giving wrong/false information and demanding an apology from Wikipedia, should we do something or leave as it is? --Tito Dutta (talk) 18:29, 29 January 2013 (UTC)

I responded on your talk page. Let's see where they want to go with it from here. You did the right thing in asking for advice. GaramondLethe 19:10, 29 January 2013 (UTC)

Thanks! --Tito Dutta (talk) 04:26, 30 January 2013 (UTC)

Talkback

Hello, Garamond Lethe. You have new messages at Abhidevananda's talk page.
Message added 20:28, 30 January 2013 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

Cornelius383 (talk) 20:28, 30 January 2013 (UTC)

On fairness at AfD

Hi,

Thanks for your thoughtful comments on the AfD process here. I can't speak for Location, but I would like to give you my rationale for the half-dozen articles started by Cornelius383 that I've proposed for deletion.

You asked, perhaps rhetorically, "How do they expect a newbie to work on six articles in a period of a week.". AfD isn't intended to be used as a prod to get a user to improve an article. That's what citation needed tags are for. I also don't expect Corelius383 to bring a GA-worthy article into the world after carefully building it in his sandbox. We have lots of stub articles here and, for the most part, it's perfectly fine to leave those (marked as stubs) in the main article space.

The reason I put forth so many of Cornelius383's articles for deletion is that I feel they cannot be improved to the point where they no longer violate policy. This is what distinguishes these articles from stubs: a competent editor can look at a stub and at satisfy herself that it could be improved given sufficient effort.

Despite that, I did engage Cornelius383 before I started proposing my round of deletions here. My overall impression was that he did not understand wikipedia policy and was not willing to hear about it from me.

If you think that any of these articles are salvageable I'm more than happy to work with you to recreate them. As best I can tell, though, Sarkar chose to self-publish his works and that limited their distribution to members of his organization. The effect has been to limit critical review of these works to members already inside the organization or closely allied with it. We can't use those sources to establish notability, and so the books (but not the man) will not end up having their own articles.

There is a possible way out that I've not been able to check. Can you find out if there have been any Ph.D. dissertations done on any of the books? Those will probably be sufficiently independent to pass muster.

I'm happy to continue the conversation and am looking forward to your response.

GaramondLethe 21:02, 31 January 2013 (UTC)

Honestly, I believe that those articles can be written much more efficiently and neutrally and with proper sources. I said, give the article a chance, for a reason. I have knowledge that there are some sources and reviews of those books outside of Ananda Marga and by non-members. But most of those are not writen in English and not all of them are online. Unfortunately there is a white and western dominated bias in WP. Books such as this has been on WP since 2009 and has no reference what-so-ever. Of course, I know that such-and-such exists in WP is not a counter-argument. However what I mean is the articles you, Location and Bob marked for deletion, are quite new, have never been given a chance of improvement, neither in content nor in sourcing, the editor(s) is/are quite unaware of the style and format that we use here in WP. Nobody guided them properly and nobody tried to enrich the articles properly. We should not forget that the guidelines and policies are there so that we improve WP, not bureaucratise it. The spirit of WP is much more important than all guidelines of WP. See my draft here. I truly believe that those articles deserve more chance than the false image created by some about them in such-and-such noticeboards. If you keep an open mind and think a little bit out-of-box, you can start to search for some more info about some of the subjects, ignore the behaviours of both parties and work for the enhancement of WP. This is what I'm doing. However, in future, if I see that the behaviour of some editors really become disruptive, than it will be my duty to take the necessary steps. (Please don't take it personal, I don't mean it to you in person, but I speak as a matter of principle. I'm an admin in Ladino WP, I'm fully aware of how one's conduct should be in WP and I'm fully capable of staying neutral, non-biased, whatever my thoughts about any subject be.)--Universal Life (talk) 21:42, 31 January 2013 (UTC)

I'm very happy to hear that you think these articles can be done well. As to bias, I expect we might have a vigorous discussion, but at the moment I'd rather concentrate on improving the article. Can you give me your list of potential non-English, offline sources? I'm going to be on the UC Berkeley campus tomorrow and can make a trip to UC Davis or Stanford over the weekend. I also have favors I can call in at Case Western Reserve University and the University of Arizona. And if worst comes to worst, I can twist a few arms and potentially get some access to a few of the better Indian universities. But before I do this I want to be convinced that there's something out there to find. So, what do you have? GaramondLethe 22:29, 31 January 2013 (UTC)

I'm really glad that you turned towards cooperation for the betterment. I truly believe that before deleting any good-faith edit/article, we should really and thoroughly search if it's really non-notable. I'll have to make some phone calls tomorrow to some acquaintances of mine in Turkey, Israel and India before I can give you some more details about those publications. Hopefully, I'll get enough resources in no time. Take care --Universal Life (talk) 23:17, 31 January 2013 (UTC)

RfC on physical determinism

To clarify the usage of physical determinism, I have posted a request for comment. Perhaps you would like to comment? Brews ohare (talk) 18:52, 8 February 2013 (UTC)

I actually started editing wikipedia at free will when I helped chase out a usenet loon I knew well. While my expertise was sufficient to know that "Rocks have free will but machines don't" doesn't belong in an encyclopedia, I quickly found myself in well over my head when actual expertise was required. So I bowed out, perhaps after staying too long. While the RFC is well-posed and it's an interesting question, I'm going to have to take a pass at this one. GaramondLethe 05:20, 9 February 2013 (UTC)

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Responses

Hello Garamond,

You've written me on four places until now, calling me for a discussion, first here, secondly here, thirdly here and lastly on my personal email. Sorry for replying late, first I was extremely busy in real life (and still am) and second the only time I found a time to edit WP, I used it constructively for building the Prabhat Samgiita article, so that the closing admin or whoever visiting wouldn't have the wrong idea, before the deletion discussion was over. Therefore, now that I could find another opportunity with WP, I want to reply you and tell you few things I'd in mind for a long while now.

About notability, in Cornelius' talk page, I tried to reply but I think it's not so relevant any more. About the third one, the one on Bijon Setu massacre, I still do not believe you gave equal weight on those sections I'd tagged, I'd seen different sources contradicting the things you say there, that's why I think a more thorough search online can help create a more equally weighted / balanced article, using inline citations. However this is also not very relevant as I don't have the time to do that kind of research right now. About the email, there is nothing right now that you can do to change my vote ;) the discussion is already closed. And even if it wasn't closed I would not change my vote on a deletion article from your behaviour, only from real proof that it's not notable. You say that you've demonstrated that you're willing to change your mind. To me, it looks like (and you've admitted yourself) your attitude towards any article related to Prabhat Ranjan Sarkar, is different than any other article on WP; to me it seems that you could keep vote only if you're shown with the most hardcore evidence about notability. Though it seems it wouldn't change your opinions about the subject matter anyway.

About the second one, let me copy my own words to remind us of the subject matter:

Hi Colapeninsula. Yes, it is true that according WP guideline and in order to make WP a more reliable encyclopaedia, we need to use reliable sources and provide encyclopaedic information. However, it's not so true that Sarkar's books are not discussed by other authors in reliable sources. Yet many off them are offline and non-English sources as Sarkar happens to be an Indian and happens to have originally published his books in non-English languages such as Bengali and Hindi. We should not let systemic bias to come in the way of our better judgement. Google hit counts are not always so reliable to establish notability. And we should not let a bunch of old editors systematically target and try to delete or undermine a bunch of articles, just because they happen to be related to an ideology or religion, that they do not like; especially if those articles were so recently created in good faith by newbies that don't know the rules much. They could be tagged for citations, notability etc and those who made the deletion requests could have tried to better the article themselves or try to explain those willing how to do it. If still, after sometime there was no betterment in notability and better sourcing, neutral language etc. they could be tagged for deletion, but not 8 of them at the same time! And they should not have done propaganda here and there, this and that noticeboard to canvass more people to vote. These are not good faith edits and this is part collaborative effort to destroy all articles related to the ideology of Sarkar, done by gaming the system. This kind of stuff, simply should not happen in Wikipedia. More experienced people should not game the system, against newbies who, naturally, make mistakes, that could be corrected. Friendly --Universal Life

• First of all, I did not pointed to you in this, rather to a bunch of people that included you.

• Secondly, I would discuss with you today right now, about this, only if you hadn't recently nominated four more articles about the subject for deletion. You were the last one, out of the bunch of people I mentioned, to whom, I still hold the belief of working in good faith. I'm sorry but that belief diminished more and more during the last three weeks, because of your continuous patterns of behaviour.

• So maybe, we'll have a discussion about this another time, maybe some time when you'll not be extremely prejudiced about the subject.

Until then stay well,

Friendly --Universal Life (talk) 20:29, 16 February 2013 (UTC)

You've mentioned elsewhere that you're a scientist. When you have an article rejected by a journal, do you argue systemic bias and that the article should be published now and that you'll fix it later? Would you submit work to a journal that followed that policy? I wouldn't (and don't).

If you want to think I'm prejudiced against Sarkar, well, that's fine. In fact, I'm so prejudiced that I'm going to give you a great lead on where to find discussion of Sarkar's works. The philosophy department at the University of Calcutta publishes the full syllabus of required and recommended reading for their bachelor's degree. None of Sarkar's works are on the list, of course, but if you can track these books down and find a chapter or two that discusses Sarkar, that would be a great addition to the Sarkar bio article. It's less likely (but still possible) that one of those books will spend a few paragraphs discussing one of Sarkar's publications. As a source, a textbook is far more reliable than a Ph.D. thesis, and you'll have no trouble supporting articles for whatever books are discussed at length.

Good luck!

Garamond Lethet
c 00:55, 18 February 2013 (UTC)

Hi Garamond, the presence or absence of Sarkar's works in university syllabi is not the criterion to establish the historical importance of one person. And that's not the main problem here. I really had thought (had the preliminary impression) that you were just literally sticking to some guidelines and accordingly in a strict deletionist way, you were targeting such articles that did not fit those guidelines. However, the absence of such action towards other articles (outside of the "Sarkarverse"), all those articles being proposed of deletion by you, being articles created by the same person (Cornelius), your own expressions of extreme prejudice many places and you proposing to delete articles that even didn't exist more than few days in WP, inhibiting their chance to improve and the spontaneous deletion proposals of dozens of articles. I think all of these showed me that prejudice and lack of AGF. If you and others such as Bob and Location had little bit assumed good faith and kept an open mind, instead of behaving almost dogmatically, would have first tagged those articles, would have left some serious but friendly and sincere note to Cornelius, would have at least proposed to userify the articles from the beginning so many articles wouldn't be created as stubs etc. I've seen none of those good faith behaviour. So, now, how do you expect me to see it otherwise? I'm sorry my friend, I've always acted with good faith, but you'll need more than some intellectual extravaganza to convince me that you're not biased and prejudiced about the subject. Personally, I've made my research about the subject and even though there are some controversial stuff, there are a plethora of high decency in it as well, so unlike you, I keep an open mind. As a scientist, I'm sceptic by nature, but I still give the benefit of the doubt, I think you should do the same. Good luck as well --Universal Life (talk) 04:51, 18 February 2013 (UTC)

I started searching through the related reading list. Sarkar isn't mentioned anywhere. So I widened my search to books on contemporary and modern philosophy. Nothing. I'm not even getting any hits in political science in the entire ac.in domain.

Well, I'll keep looking. Oh, do you have a cite for how many Ananda Marga schools there are? I haven't been able to locate a list and the impression I'm getting is that most or nearly all of them are informal, unaccredited schools in impoverished areas.

Thanks,

Garamond Lethet
c 05:14, 18 February 2013 (UTC)

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Templates for British Road Junction Lists

Hi Garamond

There is a discussion at Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style/Road junction lists#RJLUK set of templates regarding a proposed set of templates for British Road Junction Lists. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Martinvl (talk • contribs)

Hello. There is currently a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. The thread is Ongoing battle over Prabhat Rainjan Sarkar-related articles. Thank you. Mangoe (talk) 04:13, 8 March 2013 (UTC)

Narasingha P. Sil and PROUT

I was going to bring up a couple of his papers but I see you're already aware of him. I'm guessing he's going to be the next target of attacks on his "bias". Mangoe (talk) 23:27, 19 March 2013 (UTC)

Do you know if Ravi Batra published anything academic on PROUT? Garamond Lethet
c 23:31, 19 March 2013 (UTC)

There's a book: Batra, Raveendra (1980). Prout: the alternative to capitalism and Marxism. Lanham, Maryland: University Press of America. I see a reasonably wide range of university library holdings on WorldCat but buying a copy is insanely expensive. I only see two references to it other than a review essay supposedly in Religious Studies Review in 1983, but their index is a mess and I can't see which of the four issues it actually appeared in. The other two references are another of Sil's articles and something in Spanish that I cannot decode. Mangoe (talk) 01:04, 20 March 2013 (UTC)

FYI: I intend to take this to ArbCom tomorrow. If either of you are willing to help draft the complaint, let me know. Location (talk) 06:36, 20 March 2013 (UTC)

I'm willing to help. Garamond Lethet
c 06:45, 20 March 2013 (UTC)

FYI: [1]. Location (talk) 06:52, 20 March 2013 (UTC)

I'm going to assume this is on hold for the moment. Garamond Lethet
c 04:51, 21 March 2013 (UTC)

EdJohnston's warning has put him one step from a block, so I'm happy to sit tight on this for the time-being. I'll support other plans in regards to this if you have them. Location (talk) 20:39, 21 March 2013 (UTC)

Ananda Marga needs a similar reset; I'm finding lots of good information that goes into the cultic aspects of the movement. We could probably stand to have an AMURT article. But mostly I'm worried that PROUT is going to be left in its current state (a bad article, rather than the unacceptable article it was previously). I think we're at the end of the life cycle of this particular movement, which means information is only going to become more difficult to come by. Garamond Lethet
c 17:34, 22 March 2013 (UTC)

I'm not willing to tackle Ananda Marga at the moment. What would you like to see done with PROUT to make it not "bad"? Location (talk) 18:46, 22 March 2013 (UTC)

1. A bit more info on the context of where these ideas came from. (The Hindu caste comment by Sil is the only thing we have.) I don't know that this information is available from independent sources.
2. I'd like to include the fact that Proutist Universal (or whatever it was) was formed to propagate these ideas, and that it was intentionally kept separate from Ananda Marga. (I think this is Crovetto, but I'll have to reread the article to find it.)
3. Any info on whether or not Proutist is still a going concern. The web site doesn't appear to have been updated in a long time.
4. Mention of the Hilton bombing (was this Proutists, Ananda Marga, or are the two effectively synonymous)?
5. Listing Sarkar's works that discuss PROUT with a small amount detail (including the fact that the books are self-published).
6. A bibliography of secondary works: there are few enough of them that we might as well list them all with a bit of commentary for each.

That's about all I can think of. You? Garamond Lethet
c 21:06, 22 March 2013 (UTC)

I'm OK with all of this provided that there isn't undue use of sources connected to Ananda Marga. It might be best to run by specific changes on the talk page first. Location (talk) 00:09, 27 March 2013 (UTC)

Garamond Lethe, we moved your Teahouse host profile

Hello Garamond Lethe! Thank you for being a host at the Teahouse. However, we haven't heard from you lately, so our bot has moved your Host profile from the host landing page to the host breakroom. No worries; you can always just Check in and our bot will move your profile back. Editing any Teahouse-related page will do the same thing for you. If you would prefer not to receive reminders like this, you can unsubscribe here. Thanks for your help at the Teahouse! HostBot (talk) 23:35, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

Review of Proposed redefinition of SI base units

Many thanks for your work in reviewing Proposed redefinition of SI base units. Also noted at Wikipedia:Peer review/New SI definitions/archive1#All done. Martinvl (talk) 11:16, 30 March 2013 (UTC)

Looks good. Looking forward to being able to spend more time here. Garamond Lethet
c 23:52, 31 March 2013 (UTC)

Hello

Garamond Lethe, in spite of supposed differences, I would like to express my gratitude to you. I love you.

Thank you for having been a part of my evolution.Pottinger's cats (talk) 17:15, 28 April 2013 (UTC)

Wiknic 2013

Wiknic 2013
Sunday, June 23rd · 12:34pm · Lake Merritt, Oakland
Theme: Hyperlocal list-making

Lake Merritt Wild Duck Refuge (Oakland, CA)

This year's 2013 SF Wiknik will be held at Lake Merritt, next to Children's Fairyland in Oakland. This event will be co-attended by people from the hyperlocal Oakland Wiki. May crosspollination of ideas and merriment abound!

Location and Directions

• Location: The grassy area due south of Children's Fairyland (here) (Oakland Wiki)
  • Nearest BART: 19th Street
  • Nearest bus lines: NL/12/72
  • Street parking abounds

EdwardsBot (talk) 04:46, 3 May 2013 (UTC)

You're invited...

to two upcoming Bay Area events:

• Maker Faire 2013, Sat/Sun May 18-19, San Mateo -- there will have a booth about Wikimedia, and we need volunteers to talk to the public and ideas for the booth -- see the wiki page to sign up!
• Edit-a-Thon 5, Sat May 25, 10-2pm, WMF offices in San Francisco -- this will be a casual edit-a-thon open to both experienced and new editors alike! Please sign up if on the wiki page if you can make it so we know how much food to get.

I hope you can join us at one or both! -- phoebe / (talk to me) 18:06, 13 May 2013 (UTC)

IRC office hours for wiki-mentors and Snuggle users

Hi. We're organizing an office hours session with the Teahouse to bring in mentors from across the wiki to try out Snuggle and discuss it's potential to support mentorship broadly. The Snuggle team would appreciate it if you would come and participate in the discussion. We'll be having it in #wikimedia-office ^connect on Wed. July 17th @ 1600 UTC. See the agenda for more info. --EpochFail^{(talk • work)}, Technical 13 (talk), TheOriginalSoni (talk) 17:29, 12 July 2013 (UTC)

Books and Bytes: The Wikipedia Library Newsletter

Books and Bytes

Volume 1, Issue 1, October 2013

by The Interior (talk · contribs), Ocaasi (talk · contribs)

Greetings Wikipedia Library members! Welcome to the inaugural edition of Books and Bytes, TWL’s monthly newsletter. We're sending you the first edition of this opt-in newsletter, because you signed up, or applied for a free research account: HighBeam, Credo, Questia, JSTOR, or Cochrane. To receive future updates of Books and Bytes, please add your name to the subscriber's list. There's lots of news this month for the Wikipedia Library, including new accounts, upcoming events, and new ways to get involved...

New positions: Sign up to be a Wikipedia Visiting Scholar, or a Volunteer Wikipedia Librarian

Wikipedia Loves Libraries: Off to a roaring start this fall in the United States: 29 events are planned or have been hosted.

New subscription donations: Cochrane round 2; HighBeam round 8; Questia round 4... Can we partner with NY Times and Lexis-Nexis??

New ideas: OCLC innovations in the works; VisualEditor Reference Dialog Workshop; a photo contest idea emerges

News from the library world: Wikipedian joins the National Archives full time; the Getty Museum releases 4,500 images; CERN goes CC-BY

Announcing WikiProject Open: WikiProject Open kicked off in October, with several brainstorming and co-working sessions

New ways to get involved: Visiting scholar requirements; subject guides; room for library expansion and exploration

Read the full newsletter

Thanks for reading! All future newsletters will be opt-in only. Have an item for the next issue? Leave a note for the editor on the Suggestions page. --The Interior 21:48, 27 October 2013 (UTC)

Unacceptable revert

Your revert here gives me cause for concern. You removed new sourced content in favour of unsourced content and you used a pejorative edit summary. Please review your actions with respect to the Wikipedia polices and guidelines on article content and editing etiquette. Credibility gap (talk) 22:56, 31 October 2013 (UTC)

November 2013

There is currently a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you. Credibility gap (talk) 14:06, 1 November 2013 (UTC)

No worries

I appreciate your message on my talk page. I have to be honest in that I really didn't think there was anything to it, Martin is not stupid, but it seemed a timely way of clearing the matter quickly. Regards, Wee Curry Monster talk 18:22, 1 November 2013 (UTC)

Bbl article

In reply to your question concerning the article on 'oil barrel', the only reference I have is oral. Being in the oils industry, I attended a class on Production Engineering and heard the instructor talk about Bbl as standing for 'Blue barrel'. It was to distinguish it from the other barrels used in the field. The instructor was a gentleman of age. I know that this won't pass as a citation but I will try to find literature on the subject. As you might well expect, those experienced guys in the oil patch are getting more and more rare. (Auretanjr (talk) 23:15, 11 November 2013 (UTC))

Hey, Auretanjr, you certainly know more about this area than I do. I went to http://books.google.com and put in <"blue barrel" bbl> and saw several books that mention this, but I'm at a loss as to which one of those books to use as a citation. Can you take a look and let me know if there are any that look good to you?

Just so you know, I might be not replying for 24 hours or so. Things are sporadically hectic here.

Thanks!

Garamond Lethet
c 23:39, 11 November 2013 (UTC)

Intelligent design

Hello. I have gotten involved in discussions at Intelligent design in recent months. (I was looking at examples of philosophy articles with FAR status in August.) I find it an awkward article, and very difficult to work on. I noticed that within its lengthy header there is an unusual section naming two contact people, one of which is you, and the other being Dave souza, who is a frequent editor at that article. (I think it is the only time I have ever seen this?) The talkpage is not an easy one, with a lot of "baggage" it appears to me, as well as political issues being involved. I wonder if you would have any interest having a look? --Andrew Lancaster (talk) 12:00, 7 November 2013 (UTC)

Andrew Lancaster, I'll take a look in the next six hours or so. Garamond Lethet
c 01:36, 8 November 2013 (UTC)

Andrew Lancaster, could you drop me an email that contains a) the change or changes you are proposing and b) the sources you are relying on to support that change. At the moment I'd rather not have the argument, just the change and the cites. Thanks, Garamond Lethet
c 02:09, 8 November 2013 (UTC)

It was not my intention to go over the latest editing discussion, and I am not even sure there is a clear sourcing disagreement. That is part of the problem. I guess I was just looking for more 3rd parties to have a look at the general way the article is. Please note that I am not really clear why your name is in the article, but if it is to be understood that you are a contact for sourcing disputes, I'll keep that in mind.--Andrew Lancaster (talk) 07:01, 8 November 2013 (UTC)

Andrew Lancaster, my name is on the talk page because I'm an academic with a bit of grounding in philosophy and biology who spent far too much time in grad school hanging out at talk.origins on usenet and assembling a collection on creationism and philosophy of science. There used to be three or four names listed, most of them were no longer inactive, so I added my name for situations just like this one. Here's my review of the situation:

1. Having read much of the philosophical literature on ID, I can't bring to mind any author who has taken particular care in defining ID as the teleological argument vs. a teleological argument vs. a or the type/form/exemplar/variation of the teleological argument. If the reliable sources don't consider this to be a problem, you're going to have a much more difficult time persuading domain experts that a problem exists.

2. I found this sentence particularly telling: I have made a proposal for a change to a sentence above in order to avoid WP implying that, for example, Paley and Aquinas are scamming pseudo scientists. This is bad reading, bad writing and worse rhetoric. Bad reading, in that (even accounting for your rhetorical exaggeration) no good-faith reader would come away from the article thinking that Paley and Aquinas were scientists or anything but honest. Bad writing, in that in trying to guard against bad-faith readings you eventually end up with something unreadable (which ends up being more open to bad-faith readings). As to the rhetoric, sarcasm is only deployed when you've given up trying to persuade.

3. If you're editing in this area, you ought to know that the DI will take event such as trivial changes in a wikipedia article and parade them around as triumphs. It would be nice if the editors here just didn't care about that sort of thing, but we do, and so proposed trivial changes are met with far more scrutiny here than elsewhere. The fact that you don't have your sources "ducked out in a row" makes people that much more suspicious, not of your motives, but of the effects your changes will have.

The problem you've identified is not one that you can settle by an appeal to reliable sources. Rather, it's a problem in how the article will be read. If the majority of editors are telling you "No, that's not a problem", then you're done. Deploying logical arguments as to why they're reading the text incorrectly won't work; they read the text, they didn't have the problem, even if you think they should have.

How much more time do you want to spend trying to talk them out of their reading?

I appreciate that you're trying to improve the article. That's not at issue. You've reached the point of diminishing returns. If you want to end your involvement here with an RFC, that's fine, but I get the impression that you don't know what would be in it.

If you're not willing to walk away from the topic, may I suggest that you write a History of Intelligent Design article?

Best,

Garamond Lethet
c 09:06, 8 November 2013 (UTC)

I am very appreciative that you've taken time on this and it is helpful to me to have someone new to talk to. I am sure you know it can be very difficult to keep focus in a long discussion like this. So I hope you do not mind me attempting to continue bouncing comments back?

1. If I understand you correctly you are questioning whether there are sources who use the term ID to refer to arguments from design generally? Yes there are, and I think for example that Dave souza has accepted this and indeed the opening sentences have been adapted a bit to reflect it. Just some examples which do not include the textbook debate context:

• Here it is used to discuss Giambattista Vico (18th century).
• Here it is used to refer to Socrates (quite some time back).
• [2] Francisco Ayala, who I believe to have some expertise in this area, talking about William Paley (1802), and saying "the argument from intelligent design" has never been made so forcefully and extensively.
• [3] Apeiron: A Journal for Ancient Philosophy and Science, Volume 28, Issue 2, talking about Plato
• [4] Oxford Encyclopedia of Christianity using this exact term to translate the name of the fifth proof of the existence of God (see quinque viae) used by Thomas Aquinas (14th century).
• [5] Used to name a subject handled within David Hume's Dialogues concerning Natural Religion (late 18th century)
• [6] Again being used to refer to Paley.

2.

• Bad reading. I think it depends on whether you accept my answer in point 1? If we do admit that ID is at least sometimes a term for TA, and then we say ID is always a scam, then any careful reader will in fact see that this means Aquinas is scamming. Aquinas is in fact mentioned in the footnotes to those opening sentences which do in fact say that ID is a TA. I can not therefore agree that this is not implied in the opening lines as written, and indeed readers keep noting these implications on the talkpage. Please look at those opening lines again and let me know if I am truly crazy?
• Bad writing. I agree. Actually I have adjusted my proposal to an earlier version which Dave souza made, and which is also not beautiful. I have to say that I would love there to be some discussion about how to word this more nicely and in a way that is the problem. There is such hyper-sensitivity that any wording tweak is reverted sometimes within minutes. And any attempt to discuss drafts on the talk page is dismissed as a hidden effort to change the meaning of the article. Maybe as an outside party you might have some ideas that would not be dismissed quite as quickly.

Worse rhetoric. I did not see that as sarcasm, but just plain words. I guess you are saying that because of your understanding of point 1 though?

3. I agree I think. I am guessing you did not see yet that the recent history of the page is that arrived mid August or thereabouts and then spent I think about 3 weeks of intensive work getting sources in a row (with abuse being hurled). Most is already archived, but see for example: [7]. We then achieved a compromise on 18th September and I stopped paying attention. In the meantime wording was changed on the sentence currently under discussion and I recently noticed this when the normal thing happened: someone else arrived at the article and started complaining about the implication of the sentence. What happened next was that the editor who had changed the sentence pointed to it as part of the act of telling the editor to go away. I then noticed the edit which had been made. I shall be bold: I do not actually recall seeing many editors ever do as much detailed effort on putting sourcing in a line as I have done in that discussion in August and September.

Concerning your final remarks I am willing to walk away from the discussion, but I also see no reason to do so at this time. Why bother doing that? I think one of the obvious and understandable misunderstandings people make when asked to look at a discussion like this is that they will tend to think that an active participant in a difficult discussion must have started that discussion and that the debate will go away when they stop. That is not the case. As mentioned under 3, I did not initiate the latest discussion. Instead I saw it as a sign that there is more work to do. I still see myself, as funny as it might sound, as a third party trying to help resolve a very long running argument. I'm not of course scoring brownie points for my efforts, but I gave up on that a long time ago! :) My user page has some reflection upon my approach to Wikipedia. Anyway, if too many people make it a policy to walk away from difficult discussions then of course Wikipedia will devolve inevitably at least in subjects like this one.--Andrew Lancaster (talk) 15:37, 8 November 2013 (UTC)

Before I respond in depth, is this is the diff in question? You're asking (among other things) to return to this version? Garamond Lethet
c 21:50, 8 November 2013 (UTC)

I think those links are right yes, but I am not sure I agree that I am arguing for any other change (let alone an article subject matter change) in recent times. (I believe there is a lot of deliberate distortion occurring on the talk page.) Perhaps it is handy to direct you to the last few posts of this talk page section. Once again thanks for your thoughts on this.--Andrew Lancaster (talk) 10:02, 9 November 2013 (UTC)

Maybe handy to note a new thread trying to give this a clean summary: https://wiki.riteme.site/wiki/Talk:Intelligent_design#Edit_request --Andrew Lancaster (talk) 11:35, 9 November 2013 (UTC)

Just playing around at this stage, but maybe you can help decide if it is worth continuing this line of thought? https://wiki.riteme.site/wiki/User:Andrew_Lancaster/ID_RfC_draft . For now, I shall also drop a line to North 9000 who has also proposed RfC ideas. I appreciate that my idea is different from previous ones. --Andrew Lancaster (talk) 11:44, 12 November 2013 (UTC)

Could I ask again for feedback on this draft RfC. After looking around at examples myself I see it is rather complex, but I also see no escape from that given the situation on the talkpage where the two arguments which constantly reappear are that everything has been argued before already and there is no point discussing it unless there is an RfC first. I can see that a simplistic RfC will achieve exactly what has happened in the past: nothing.--Andrew Lancaster (talk) 09:05, 15 November 2013 (UTC)

Will reply on the talk page. Garamond Lethet
c 15:26, 15 November 2013 (UTC)

Measurement Template draft: better than the present version?

Hi Garamond,

I believe the latest draft of the measurement template is the best so far. In fact, I think it is better than the current version. I know it could have a few refinements, but even without them I think it is better.

What do you think of making it the official version for now? Michael Glass (talk) 11:13, 16 November 2013 (UTC)

Capacitance

Hello garamond:

I review article and notice than factor 2 is correct.

thanks!

Ghorbanib (talk) 06:29, 19 November 2013 (UTC)

Bijon Setu massacre

Hello,
I believe the text is a copyvio of [8] which is "Copyright © 1997 Indian Express Newspapers (Bombay) Ltd". However, if you feel that it's not long enough to qualify, or if there's some other reason that it should be restored, I've no interest in an edit war; I greatly respect you as an editor, and my understanding of copyright is far from complete. bobrayner (talk) 23:54, 20 November 2013 (UTC)

Emilie Schenkl

I didn't noticed earlier that you also nominated Emilie Schenkl and Sarmila Bose for PROD, besides Anita Bose Pfaff. I have taken the liberty to remove the tags of Schenkl, since the article is now more than 5 times expanded after the AFD, just a FYI. Thank you for your anticipated cooperation. Solomon7968 05:50, 25 November 2013 (UTC)

No worries, and thanks for your help in improving the articles. Garamond Lethet
c 06:14, 25 November 2013 (UTC)

Intelligent design again

I hope you do not mind me giving a personal opinion about talk page writing style. Typical on the ID talkpage is that people fill their posts with remarks about editors, with the aim of trying to make others look silly, rather than focusing on the article and editing it. It is classic "battlefield" behavior, and leads to well known circles of problems, and I see it as part of what needs to improve there. So I want to request that you please try to avoid inserting anything that could be seen as condescension where there should be rationale. You presumably feel that using "putting in their place" type rhetoric is justified by your long interest in this subject, but it does not help discussion, and there is also a chance that you are not as many streets ahead of me as you think. (I claim no special expertise, but I am trying to focus on basic things anyway.) In this spirit, I promise to try to do the same. I did not make a big show about the fact that the lecture you and Dave gave me about cherry picking from Ayala actually seemed to demonstrate that both of you were making those rather strong remarks about me ignoring article context, and not understanding the importance of terms versus phrases, without actually looking at the article I was citing, nor the words I was writing. Sure some watchers of the page might be impressed for the wrong reasons by Dave's way of inserting a late response blaming it all on my wall of words, but others will not be, noting for example that the wall of words was a good faith response to repeated and insistent demands for me to repeat things over and over. The aim I think we should have on this article is to build up more solid common ground for all to work together.--Andrew Lancaster (talk) 10:03, 25 November 2013 (UTC)

You've earned the condescension I've given you, not because you're wrong, but because you don't have any interest in doing the hard work necessary to become WP:COMPETENT in editing the ID article. This is a technical topic and you're not nearly smart enough to bluff your way through it. If you want to make a contribution here, you're going to have to start reading. Your not understanding the basic issues involved in the Kitzmiller decision tells me you're going to be starting from near-zero. In light of that, I do think your efforts would be best directed elsewhere. Garamond Lethet
c 20:19, 26 November 2013 (UTC)

Addendum: pointing out which bits of the article are unclear is always welcome. The consensus may be that clarity can't be reached within the confines of an encyclopedia article, but that's still valuable input. Trying to fix what's unclear without the requisite background knowledge is an inefficient way of pointing out what is unclear. Garamond Lethet
c 21:40, 26 November 2013 (UTC)

A couple of issues, and I am trying to take you as seriously as I can: On Wikipedia, there are a few well-known disadvantages to feeling a deep connection to a subject you have spent time on. One is that you can not take a step back and copyedit for a normal reader, who is not as familiar as you are with the material. That is clearly a valid concern I have been trying to register with you. Another is over-confidence, which can lead to arrogant behavior, judging arguments without reading them properly and so on. Third is the emotion connected to the investment you feel you have made, which can also work as a barrier to working with others. Second issue, again, just trying to help you see what would be obvious many people: your reply above, and much of what you've written to me, being conscientiously condescending, is not a recommended style on Wikipedia. You do not know who I am, and I just see someone boasting about how they read books, and even apparently trying to claim special kudos on that basis. Most of us read books. And, please note, you have repeatedly refused to engage in discussion about things you have read, so who knows if you really read them. You just name the books. If you want to earn real respect you need to be able to answer questions, and do a bit more than cheap and nasty hit and run posts. I have no interest in you making yourself look silly because I seriously want a better discussion - if you are up to it.--Andrew Lancaster (talk) 22:08, 27 November 2013 (UTC)

Just want to make sure you realize: What you are doing right now on the ID talk page very much appears to be one of the most blatant and childish cases of deliberate well poisoning I have seen. It appears, for example, to be about as one would expect from someone who, for example, tells someone they just met on the internet that they deserve their condescension. I suggest that you should think about what it might imply about you to anyone who reads it. Please show some evidence of that higher level precision you claim to have, for example by showing an ability to read the threads you participate in, and please demonstrate that you are working in good faith and able to work according to the norms of Wikipedia concerning talk pages, such as starting a new thread for a new topic, and also making you sure you come to a point. I am of course open to discuss any possible misunderstandings I am making, and also I would in all honesty be happy to give you more advice on this if you are interested.--Andrew Lancaster (talk) 18:46, 1 December 2013 (UTC)

Just noting for the record that your threat to hound me, and your reversion of a small copy edit on a stubbish article, are clearly disruptive behavior.[9] Please do calm down concerning Intelligent design, and do not exaggerate and over-dramatize everything so much.--Andrew Lancaster (talk) 05:13, 3 December 2013 (UTC)

The Wikipedia Library Survey

As a subscriber to one of The Wikipedia Library's programs, we'd like to hear your thoughts about future donations and project activities in this brief survey. Thanks and cheers, Ocaasi ^{t | c} 15:51, 9 December 2013 (UTC)

HD106906 edits

Thanks for your help editing the HD106906b page until I've got enough cred to edit a protected article!

Overall the planetbox template is mostly complete. We could fill in the temperature 1800K +/- 100K. I think that's under "characteristics." The position angle could also be filled in under "separation". It's 307.3dgr +/- 0.2dgr

Another characteristic that applies to some exoplanets (really only to directly imaged gas giant ones like this) is a "spectral type." I couldn't find that under the planetbox template. For this object the spectral type is "L2.5 +/- 1".

Thanks! Hr8799 (talk) 06:43, 11 December 2013 (UTC)

Hr8799: Could you try editing this version: [10]? It's a copy in my "sandbox", so the edits won't be visible in mainspace. If that works, I'll pick up your changes and move them over. Changing the templates will have to wait until this evening. Garamond Lethet
c 17:40, 11 December 2013 (UTC)

You're invited: Art & Feminism Edit-a-thon

Art & Feminism Edit-a-Thon - You are invited!

File:Csaky madonna.jpg

Hi Garamond Lethe! The first Art and Feminism Edit-a-thon will be held on Saturday, February 1, 2014 in San Francisco. Any editors interested in the intersection of feminism and art are welcome. Wikipedians of all experience levels are invited! Experienced editors will be on hand to help new editors. Bring a friend and a laptop! Come one, come all! Learn more here! SarahStierch (talk) 08:57, 21 December 2013 (UTC)

Sorcery

Please see Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/SORCER (2nd nomination) where your opinion will be valued, the more so since you have worked hard in this area. Fiddle Faddle 14:51, 2 January 2014 (UTC)

Hello Garamond, please call me 74, can you help me out with what the usual rules are for cite-counts, in terms of the notability threshold? I've never heard of that before, sorry.  :-)   Mostly I just go based on WP:GNG, and in cases where PhD theses are involved, WP:SCHOLARSHIP. Is there more, or am I missing something in those?

  You can gab with me here if you like, but it would probably be more helpful if we open up a new talkpage section on Talk:SORCER so that your explanation will reach the other interested folks. Danke. — 74.192.84.101 (talk) 22:45, 2 January 2014 (UTC)

Will reply at Talk:SORCER. Garamond Lethet
c 23:33, 2 January 2014 (UTC)

Frontex entry

Hi Garamond, I posted this on the Frontex talk page a few weeks ago:

Hi Garamond. It's frustrating that it sat in the queue for so long but never mind. Why did you decline it? I've been trying for some time to correct the entry, which is inaccurate and out of date. Although I have a declared 'conflict of interest' I don't see any conflict - Frontex's interest is the same as Wikipedia's: to have an accurate and up-to-date entry (including criticisms). Please contact me to discuss the best way to move forward with this. Thanks. Ewan. 91.212.30.30 (talk) 11:37, 17 December 2013 (UTC)91.212.30.30 (talk) 16:11, 15 January 2014 (UTC)

Replying at Frontex. Garamond Lethet
c 16:49, 15 January 2014 (UTC)

Frontex

Hi Garamond, Sorry for the hiatus. I would like to hear your suggestions on how to achieve a significant update - a lot has changed since the original was written. In the short term I'd like to implement the changes I suggested. If you could point me in the direction of how best to format it I'd be grateful. I think I skipped that stage by declaring a conflict of interest, but I'll re-work the proposed text and re-submit. How should I proceed from there? I currently have a mountain to climb at work and will have for the next 4-6 weeks but need to show some fruits from my efforts. 164.127.76.235 (talk) 20:29, 4 February 2014 (UTC)

Hello. Suggestions are:

1: Register an account and log in.

2: Create a "sandbox" page. My sandbox is at https://wiki.riteme.site/wiki/User:Garamond_Lethe/sandbox. Substitute your user name for "Garamond_Lethe". It will ask if you want the page to be created. You do.

3: Put the changes you want to make on that page.

4: Drop me a note here on my talk page when you've done all of that. We'll figure out what to do from there.

Thanks!

Garamond Lethet
c 15:03, 5 February 2014 (UTC)

Chromacoding of the Systems of Measurement template

The chromacoding of the Systems of Measurement template has been removed. See the discussion here: https://wiki.riteme.site/wiki/User_talk:Frietjes#Chromacoding_of_the_Systems_of_Measurement_template You may want to express an opinion about this as you were the one who did almost all of the work on the chromacoding.

Best wishes,

Michael Glass (talk) 00:56, 27 February 2014 (UTC)

Mail

You've got mail. Best regards, TransporterMan (TALK) 23:02, 3 March 2014 (UTC)

Third opinion

Thank you for your third opinion regarding the New Woman template. Your comments were objective, helpful and well-researched. --Mirokado (talk) 01:33, 4 March 2014 (UTC)

Mirokado, both you and Carole made it easy: you were both civil, both discussing the issue instead of each other, and you both had cooperated to narrow the point of contention down to a single disagreement. It was a pleasure to contribute to that conversation, and I hope I get a chance to work with both of you again. Garamond Lethet
c 01:50, 4 March 2014 (UTC)

You're invited! WikiWomen's Edit-a-thon at the University of California, Berkeley

Saturday, April 5 - WikiWomen's Edit-a-thon at the University of California, Berkeley - You are invited!

The University of California, Berkeley's Berkeley Center for New Media is hosting our first edit-a-thon, facilitated by WikiWoman Sarah Stierch, on April 5! This event, focused on engaging women to contribute to Wikipedia, will feature a brief Wikipedia policy and tips overview, followed by a fast-paced energetic edit-a-thon. Everyone is welcome to attend. Please bring your laptop and be prepared to edit about women and women's history! The event is April 5, from 1-5 PM, at the Berkeley Center for New Media Commons at Moffitt Library. You must RSVP here - see you there! SarahStierch (talk) 23:22, 13 March 2014 (UTC)

Good luck

Good luck with the semi-retirement. I tried it once.... But just in case this is my last chance, can I pass on a phrase I think you might like, just in case you've not come across it? It scales really well. (I may have to reconsider my attitude to the man.) Bon voyage! NebY (talk) 19:20, 28 April 2014 (UTC)

NebY: This put me in mind of the Gaea trilogy, which I probably haven't read in 30 years. The sentient, hollow, locally-omnipotent and slightly batty 1,300 km diameter Stanford torus arranged its settlements of human colonists by their religion, putting the most similar religions closest to each other to maximize potential conflict. And if that doesn't make you drop what you're doing and run out and buy the trilogy, nothing will. (It was a throwaway line, but the image stuck with me.) As to semi-retiring, well... maybe "refocusing" is a better word. I can improve articles like Kilometers per hour and I can write articles like Parable of the sunfish, but it's taken a while to figure out that I can't do both. So now most of my time is spent (offline) working on a 1500-entry bibliography of Paul Erdos.... but I can still get sucked in to helping out at National Library of Pakistan. So it goes.... Garamond Lethet
c 17:53, 1 May 2014 (UTC)

It has been a pleasure working with you. I hope you don't feel burnt-out - feel free to drop in from time to time! bobrayner (talk) 20:54, 1 May 2014 (UTC)

Hey bob! Thanks for the kind words. Yeah, the Sarkarvese drama really did take a lot out of me. I took that way too personally. Informally assisting with dispute resolution has also been a mixed bag: the successes are brief and the failures can drag out for months. I'm still looking for something here I can do well that isn't exhausting. That might be a series of mathematical bibliographies... being me, I picked the most difficult feasible one to start with. If that comes to a successful conclusion, I might drop back in at WP:FTN from time to time. Best, Garamond Lethet
c 22:30, 1 May 2014 (UTC)

An Erdos bibliography? You're not thinking small! Titan is now on order - thank you. I picked up The Ophiuchi Hotline a couple of years ago and enjoyed it; it reminded me of Accelerando in good ways and (in the conclusion) bad. Meanwhile on WP, a little spam-hunting has now lead me into the history of Indian entrance exams. Once upon a time, I was just going to sort out Orifice plate, which is still half-and-half....NebY (talk) 09:45, 3 May 2014 (UTC)

WP:JSTOR access

Hello, WP:The Wikipedia Library has record of you being approved for access to JSTOR through the TWL partnership described at WP:JSTOR . You should have recieved a Wikipedia email User:The Interior or User:Ocaasi sent several weeks ago with instructions for access, including a link to a form collecting information relevant to that access. Please find that email, and follow those instructions. If you were not approved, did not recieve the email, or are having some other concern or question, please respond to this message at Wikipedia talk:JSTOR/Approved. Thanks much, Sadads (talk) 21:14, 5 August 2014 (UTC) Note: You are recieving this message from an semi-automatically generated list. If you think you were incorrectly contacted, make sure to note that at Wikipedia talk:JSTOR/Approved.

You're invited! Litquake Edit-a-thon in San Francisco

You are invited! → Litquake Edit-a-thon → See you there!

In the area? You're invited to    San Francisco Meetup # 22   Date: October 11, 2014   Time: 1-5 pm   Place: 149 New Montgomery Street, 6th Floor, San Francisco, CA 94105   prev: Meetup 21 - next: Meetup 23 | All SF meetups & events The Edit-a-thon will occur in parallel with Litquake, the San Francisco Bay Area's annual literature festival. Writers from all over the Bay Area and the world will be in town during the nine day festival, so the timing is just right for us to meetup and create/translate/expand/improve articles about literature and writers. All levels of Wikipedia editing experience are welcome. This event will include new editor training. RSVP →here←. --Rosiestep (talk) 03:07, 27 September 2014 (UTC)

The best easily found rendition of Scudder's recollection of Agassiz and the fish

See [11]. 71.239.87.100 (talk) 17:24, 11 November 2014 (UTC)

SF edit-a-thons on March 7 and 8

ArtAndFeminism (3/7) and International Women's Day (3/8)!

Dear fellow Wikipedian, In celebration of WikiWomen's History Month, the SF Bay Area Wikipedia community has two events in early March -- please consider attending! First, we have an ArtAndFeminism edit-a-thon, which will take place at the Kadist Art Foundation from 12 noon to 6pm on Saturday, March 7. We'll be one of many sites worldwide participating in this edit-a-thon on March 7th. So join us as we help improve Wikipedia's coverage of women artists and their works! Second, we will be celebrating International Women's Day with the International Women's Day edit-a-thon on Sunday, March 8 from 1pm to 5pm at the Wikimedia Foundation. Our editing focus will be on women, of course! I hope to see you there! Rosiestep (talk) - via MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 18:06, 20 February 2015 (UTC) To opt out of future mailings about SF meetups, please remove your name from this list.

RfC on Talk:Free will

As a past contributor to Free will, you might be interested to participate in this Request for Comment. Brews ohare (talk) 01:34, 27 April 2015 (UTC)

ArbCom elections are now open!

Hi,
You appear to be eligible to vote in the current Arbitration Committee election. The Arbitration Committee is the panel of editors responsible for conducting the Wikipedia arbitration process. It has the authority to enact binding solutions for disputes between editors, primarily related to serious behavioural issues that the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the ability to impose site bans, topic bans, editing restrictions, and other measures needed to maintain our editing environment. The arbitration policy describes the Committee's roles and responsibilities in greater detail. If you wish to participate, you are welcome to review the candidates' statements and submit your choices on the voting page. For the Election committee, MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 16:54, 24 November 2015 (UTC)

Invitation to the Bay Area WikiSalon series on May 25

Please join us in downtown San Francisco!

The last Wednesday evening of every month, wiki enthusiasts gather at Bay Area WikiSalon to collaborate, mingle, and learn about new projects and ideas.

We allow time for informal conversation and working on articles. Newcomers and experienced wiki users are encouraged to attend. We will have beverages and light snacks.

Please note: You must register here, and bring a photo ID that matches your registration name. The building policy is strict on this point.

For further details, see: Wikipedia:Bay Area WikiSalon, May 2016

---

See you soon! Pete F, Ben Creasy, and Checkingfax via MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 01:15, 9 May 2016 (UTC) | Subscribe/Unsubscribe to the SF Meetups notice.

Invitation to the Bay Area WikiSalon series, Wednesday, June 29

Please join us in downtown San Francisco!

The last Wednesday evening of every month, wiki enthusiasts gather at Bay Area WikiSalon to collaborate, mingle, and learn about new projects and ideas.

We make sure to allow time for informal conversation and working on articles. Newcomers and experienced wiki users are encouraged to attend. Free Wi-Fi is available so bring your editing devices. We will have beverages and light snacks. We will also have:

• A brief report on Pride edit-a-thon recently held at the San Francisco Publice Library, coordinated by Merrilee:

  What topics might we cover in a follow up?

  Find out more about resources your public library provides to help with editing (hint, it's more than just books!)

  Special announcement (secret for now but come and find out more!)

• Join in on an in person Wikidojo!

  Are you curious how your peers approach writing a Wikipedia article? This exercise, pioneered by Wikipedians Nikola Kalchev and Vassia Atanassova in 2015 and conducted in many places around the world, will help us all - from first-time wiki users to veteran Wikipedians - share ideas, while building an article together. If you have ideas (relating to Bay Area history, ideally) about a new article we could build (stubs and short existing articles are fine), please submit them ahead of time to coordinator Pete Forsyth. (User talk page or email is fine.)

  Announcements and impromptu topics are welcome, too!

Please note: You must register here, and bring a photo ID that matches your registration name. The building policy is strict.

For further details, see: Wikipedia:Bay Area WikiSalon, June 2016

---

See you soon! Pete F, Ben, Stephen and Checkingfax | (Subscribe or Unsubscribe to this talk page notice here)

MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 10:07, 19 June 2016 (UTC)

REMINDER/invitation to the Bay Area WikiSalon series, Wednesday, June 29 at 6 p.m.

Please join us in downtown San Francisco tonight!

If you cannot join in person or want to view portions later:

• To join via Hangout on Air
• Via YouTube Stream

We will have:

• Light snacks, and time to mingle
• A brief report on the Pride edit-a-thon recently held at the San Francisco Public Library, that was coordinated by Wiki editor Merrilee
• A special announcement (secret for now but come and find out more!)
• Join in on a brief in person Wikidojo!
• Announcements and impromptu topics are welcome, too!

Please register at: https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1cjLRrSTlEkGOPTQ-h6A0WvSFI4ZmIUl6jEHp_RYas-E/viewform and bring a photo ID that matches your registration name. The building policy is strict.

For further details, see: Bay Area WikiSalon, June 2016

---

See you tonight! Pete F, Ben, Stephen and MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 15:48, 29 June 2016 (UTC) | (Subscribe or Unsubscribe to this talk page notice)

Late breaking invitation to the Bay Area WikiSalon series, July 27 (Wednesday) - change of venue - tonight

Please join us in the Mission at Noisebridge (one time change of venue)!

We hope you can join us today, Wednesday, from 6 p.m. on, at our July Bay Area WikiSalon. This month only, we are going to be at Noisebridge, a hackerspace/makerspace 1.5 blocks from the 16th & Mission BART station (see the link for directions). Some of us will be working on the Wikipedia article on basic income. All info here. Some good news - we do not have to be as strict about advance RSVP at Noisebridge, so bring spontaneous guests! (Registering ahead of time is still helpful, as always, as it will help us plan ahead.)

Come and hang out, have some light snacks. Wi-Fi is available, so please bring your editing device if you plan to edit.

Also, Pete just published a writeup of the Wikidojo exercise we did last month. Your comments welcome, if he missed anything! http://wikistrategies.net/ghost-town-royals-wikidojo

The last Wednesday evening of every month, wiki enthusiasts gather at Bay Area WikiSalon to collaborate, mingle, and learn about new projects and ideas. Mark you calendars now.

We allow time for informal conversation and working on articles. Newcomers and experienced wiki users are encouraged to attend.

---

See you soon! Pete F, Ben Creasy, Stephen and Wayne | (Subscribe/Unsubscribe to this talk page notice here)

MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 17:05, 27 July 2016 (UTC)

Invitation to the Bay Area WikiSalon series, Wednesday, August 31

Please join us in downtown San Francisco!

Hi folks,

We would like to invite you to this month's Bay Area WikiSalon. The last Wednesday evening of every month, wiki enthusiasts gather to collaborate, mingle, and learn about new projects and ideas.

We make sure to allow time for informal conversation and working on articles. Newcomers and experienced wiki users are encouraged to attend. Free Wi-Fi is available so bring your editing devices. We will have beverages and light snacks. We will also have a brief presentation for your education and possible enjoyment:

• Former EFF intern Marta Belcher will discuss crowdsourcing her Stanford Law School graduation speech using a wiki. The "WikiSpeech" was the subject of prominent national media attention in 2015, and more than half of her classmates contributed to writing and editing the commencement address via a wiki.

Please note: You should register here, and bring a photo ID that matches your registration name. The building policy is strict on the I.D. part. This also helps us figure out how much food and drink to bring in! Feel free to stop by even if only to say a quick hello, but you might have to give us a last minute call if you forget to RSVP. Also, don't be shy about hitting us up if you have thoughts on speakers or wiki-related activities.

For further details, see: Wikipedia:Bay Area WikiSalon, August 2016

---

See you soon! Pete F, Ben, Stephen and Checkingfax | (Subscribe or Unsubscribe to this talk page notice here)

MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 21:05, 29 August 2016 (UTC)

Tonight: Live and archived links for Bay Area WikiSalon

Bay Area WikiSalon, Wednesday, August 31:

If you cannot join us in person tonight, we are streaming (and later archiving) the presentation by former EFF intern Marta Belcher. We expect her to be live starting between 6:30 or 6:45 p.m. PDT and talking and taking questions for about 30 minutes thereafter.

Here is the YouTube stream link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-t8V79s2-og
Here is the link to join the Hangout on Air: https://hangouts.google.com/call/ezrol7dafjfwxfh2ilpkjyxoaue

You can search for it on the Commons and YouTube later too.

Wayne, Pete, Ben, and Stephen

MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 22:50, 31 August 2016 (UTC)

Invitation to the Bay Area WikiSalon series, Wednesday, September 28

Please join us in downtown San Francisco!

Hi folks,

We would like to invite you to this month's Bay Area WikiSalon. The last Wednesday evening of every month, Wikipedia and Wikimedia enthusiasts gather to collaborate, mingle, and learn about new projects and ideas.

We will have no formal agenda to allow people to freely share ideas and perhaps learn about Wikipedia through hands-on editing. Co-organizer Ben Creasy will be looking at election-related articles to enhance the information available in the upcoming November elections.

Co-organizer Stephen LaPorte has suggested doing an upload-a-thon for Wiki Loves Monuments. Niki, the California coordinator for WLM will be in attendance. WLM is an annual event and the official dealine is Friday the 30th for submissions to count towards awards.

Or, you can grab a couch, a booth, or a stool and do your own thing.

Please note: You should register here, and bring a photo ID that matches your registration name. The building policy is strict on the I.D. part. This also helps us figure out how much food and drink to bring in! Feel free to stop by even if only to say a quick hello, but you might have to give us a last minute call if you forget to RSVP. Also, don't be shy about hitting us up if you have thoughts on future speakers or wiki-related activities.

For further details, please see: Wikipedia:Bay Area WikiSalon, September 2016. Mark your calendars now for the 3rd Wednesday in October, the 26th, when we will have a brief presentation.

---

See you soon! Pete F, Ben, Stephen and Checkingfax | (Subscribe or Unsubscribe to this talk page notice here)

MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 01:35, 24 September 2016 (UTC)

You are invited to a Wednesday evening event in SF

Please join us in downtown San Francisco!

Hi folks,

Please copy and share this on other talk pages. We would like to invite you to this month's Bay Area WikiSalon. The last Wednesday evening of every month, Wikipedia and Wikimedia enthusiasts gather at the Wikimedia Foundation lounge to collaborate, mingle, and learn about new projects and ideas.

We will have no meaty agenda this month, but we will allow a brief period for:

• Open mic for anybody who attended WikiConference North America 2016 in San Diego last week and wants to share their takeaway
• Question & answer
• Open mic for announcements
• Maybe a focus on some topical election article editing with Ben?

Or, you can grab a couch, a booth, a stool or counter and do your own thing.

---

Please note: You should register here, and bring a photo ID that matches your registration name. The building policy is strict on the I.D. part. This also helps us figure out how much food and drink to bring in! Feel free to stop by even if only to say a quick hello, but you might have to give us a last minute call if you forget to RSVP. Also, don't be shy about hitting us up if you have thoughts on future speakers or wiki-related activities.

For further details, please see: Wikipedia:Bay Area WikiSalon, October 2016.

---

PS: Mark your calendars ahead now for the 3rd Wednesday in November, the 30th (the week after Thanksgiving), at 6 p.m. when our WikiSalon will host a super awesome top secret mystery guest mingling in our midst. We will announce specifics at the upcoming WikiSalon.

---

See you soon! Pete F, Ben, Stephen, Jacob, and Checkingfax | (Subscribe or Unsubscribe to this talk page notice here)

MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 08:51, 22 October 2016 (UTC)

Possible removal of AWB access due to inactivity

Hello! There is currently a request for approval of a bot to manage the AutoWikiBrowser CheckPage by removing inactive users, among other tasks. You are being contacted because you may qualify as an inactive user of AWB. First, if you have any input on the proposed bot task, please feel free to comment at the BRFA. Should the bot task be approved, your access to AWB may be uncontroversially removed if you do not resume editing within a week's time. This is purely for routine maintenance of the CheckPage, and is not indicative of wrongdoing on your part. You will be able regain access at any time by simply requesting it at WP:PERM/AWB. Thank you! MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 23:36, 8 November 2016 (UTC)

Everybody is invited to the November 30 Bay Area WikiSalon

Please join us in downtown San Francisco!

---

Details and RSVP here.

---

See you soon! Pete F, Ben Creasy, and Checkingfax | (Subscribe/Unsubscribe to this talk page notice here)

MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 00:54, 29 November 2016 (UTC)

Bay Area WikiSalon series: Everybody is invited this Wednesday evening at 6

Please join us in downtown San Francisco!

The last Wednesday evening of every month, wiki and open-source enthusiasts gather at Bay Area WikiSalon to collaborate, mingle, and learn about new projects and ideas.

Before and after the brief presentation we allow time for informal conversation and working on articles. Newcomers and experienced wiki users are encouraged to attend. Free Wi-Fi is available so bring your editing devices. We will have beverages and light snacks.

---

In addition, this month we will have:

• a brief presentation from User:Cullen328 (Jim Heaphy) about the Wikipedia Teahouse
• spontaneous lightning talks from the floor
• community announcements from the floor

---

For details and to RSVP see: Wikipedia:Bay Area WikiSalon, December 2016

---

See you soon! Ben Creasy and Checkingfax | (Subscribe/Unsubscribe to this talk page notice here)

+++++
P.S. Any help spreading the word through social media or other avenues is most welcome! We plan to announce this on various sites and invite various groups; if you would like to join in, check our meta planning page, and please note any announcements you are sending out: meta:Monthly WikiSalon in San Francisco#Announcements and promotion

Please feel free to add to, refine, reorganize or edit the above linked page: it is a wiki!

We need more helpers and organizers, so if you see a need, please jump in, or talk to us about it! You can add your username to the meta page where appropriate, or create a new role!

MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 21:44, 12 December 2016 (UTC)

Reminder invitation to the December Bay Area WikiSalon

Please join us in downtown San Francisco!

Hi, everybody.

We are excited to remind you of the ninth in the Bay Area WikiSalon series that is coming up this Wednesday evening at 6 p.m.

• Details (RSVP suggested) here (RSVP helps us know how much food and drink to bring in)

What is a WikiSalon? A monthly safe and inclusive meatspace event conducted in organized chaos and we all clean up the mess afterwards. Livestream links for the presentation are available during presentation months, and will be forthcoming for those of you that cannot attend. December is a presentation month.

---

Hope to see you there! Wayne (and Ben) - co-organizers
Any last minute questions or suggestions? Please ping or email Ben or me. | (Subscribe/Unsubscribe to this talk page notice here)

MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 05:10, 20 December 2016 (UTC)

Archived link for December Bay Area WikiSalon

Hi, y'all. In case you missed it and want to watch the archive reel; the topic was The Wikipedia Teahouse and the presenter was well respected Wikimedian Jim Heaphy [[User:Cullen328]]

• Archive link (also includes intro, announcements, and a lightning talk)

• Details about Bay Area WikiSalon for December here

The full title of Jim's presentation was: Welcoming and Helping New Editors: A Month at the Wikipedia Teahouse: an overview of the Teahouse and an analysis of over 300 Teahouse conversations during the month of August, 2016

Jim gave a longer version of this presentation in October at WikiConference North America 2016 in San Diego, California.

---

Cheers! Co-organizer Checkingfax - and co-organizer Ben Creasy | (Subscribe/Unsubscribe to this talk page notice here)

---

PS: Mark your calendars now for Sunday, January 15 at 2 p.m. which will be Wikipedia's 16th Birthday party hosted by Bay Area WikiSalon! Details to follow soon. If you want to help plan it, get in touch with us ASAP!

MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 01:43, 23 December 2016 (UTC)

You are invited to a birthday bash to Celebrate Wikipedia's 16th Birthday!

Please join us in downtown San Francisco!

Wikipedia Day 16 SF is a fun Birthday bash and edit-a-thon on Sunday, January 15, 2017, hosted by Bay Area WikiSalon at the Wikimedia Foundation's Chip Deubner Lounge in the South of Market Street business district.

For details and to RSVP, please see: Wikipedia:Meetup/SF/Wikipedia Day 2017

The San Francisco gathering is one of a number of Wikipedia Day celebrations worldwide.

---

See you soon! Ben Creasy, Checkingfax and Slaporte | (Subscribe/Unsubscribe to this notice)

---

PS: We need volunteers to help make this a fun and worthwhile event. Please add your name to the Project page, and what you can offer. It is a wiki, so please make direct edits to the page.

Bay Area WikiSalon usually meets the last Wednesday evening of every month as an inclusive and safe place to collaborate, mingle, munch and learn about new projects and ideas.

MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 07:52, 8 January 2017 (UTC)

Reminder invitation to the Wikipedia Day 16 birthday bash & edit-a-thon

Please join us in downtown San Francisco!

Wikipedia Day 16 SF is a fun Birthday bash and edit-a-thon on Sunday, January 15, 2017, hosted by Bay Area WikiSalon at the Wikimedia Foundation's Chip Deubner Lounge in the South of Market Street business district and everybody is invited!

Details and RSVP here

---

See you Sunday! Ben Creasy, Checkingfax and Slaporte

---

PS: We still need more volunteers to help make this a fun and worthwhile event. Please add what you can offer and your name to the Project page or Talk about it. It is a wiki, so please make direct edits to the Project page. The event is already growing due to volunteers that have stepped up so far.

---

Bay Area WikiSalon meets one evening of every month as an inclusive and safe place to collaborate, mingle, munch or learn about new projects and ideas.

---

Note: the previous invitation had a bum wikilink. Sorry! | (Subscribe/Unsubscribe to this notice) | MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 06:43, 13 January 2017 (UTC)

Bay Area WikiSalon invitation for February 22

Please join us in downtown San Francisco!

The last Wednesday evening of every month, wiki enthusiasts gather at Bay Area WikiSalon to collaborate, mingle, and learn about new projects and ideas.

We allow time for informal conversation and working on articles. Newcomers and experienced wiki users are encouraged to attend. Free Wi-Fi is available so bring your editing devices. We will have beverages (including beer and wine) plus light snacks.

---

Please note: You should RSVP here, and bring a photo ID that matches your registration name. This also helps us figure out how much food and drink to bring in.

---

For further details, see: Wikipedia:Bay Area WikiSalon, February 2017

---

See you soon! Ben Creasy and Wayne | (Subscribe/Unsubscribe to this talk page notice here) | MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 06:47, 15 February 2017 (UTC)

Bay Area WikiSalon February reminder

Please join us in downtown San Francisco!

Wednesday, February 22, 2017 at 6 p.m.

---

For details and to RSVP: Wikipedia:Bay Area WikiSalon, February 2017

---

See you soon! Ben Creasy and Wayne (co-coordinators) | (Subscribe/Unsubscribe to this talk page notice here) | MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 02:58, 21 February 2017 (UTC)

Your invitation: Bay Area WikiSalon series at Noisebridge

Please join us in San Francisco!

The last Wednesday evening of every month, wiki enthusiasts gather at Bay Area WikiSalon to collaborate, mingle, and learn about new projects and ideas. This month we are meeting at Noisebridge makerspace/hackerspace in the Mission near 16th Street BART (temporary change of venue). The good news is this means that you can bring spontaneous guests if you forget to RSVP!

We allow time for informal conversation and working on articles. Newcomers and experienced wiki users are encouraged to attend. Free Wi-Fi is available so bring your editing devices. We will have beverages (including beer and wine) plus light snacks.

---

If possible, please RSVP as it helps us figure out how much food and drink to bring in. For further details and to RSVP, please see: Wikipedia:Bay Area WikiSalon, March 2017

---

See you soon! Co-coordinators Ben Creasy and Wayne
(Subscribe/Unsubscribe to this talk page notice here) | MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 02:06, 23 March 2017 (UTC)

Reminder: Tonight is Bay Area WikiSalon at Noisebridge

Please join us in San Francisco!

---

Details and to RSVP: Wikipedia:Bay Area WikiSalon, March 2017 (optional, but helpful for food and special needs accommodations)

We are meeting at Noisebridge makerspace/hackerspace (temporary venue change) near 16th ST BART in SF.

---

See you soon! Co-coordinators Ben Creasy and Wayne
(Subscribe/Unsubscribe to this talk page notice here) | MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 18:52, 29 March 2017 (UTC)

Wednesday night you are invited! Bay Area WikiSalon

Please join us in downtown San Francisco!

The last Wednesday evening of every month, wiki enthusiasts gather for the Bay Area WikiSalon series to collaborate, mingle, and learn about new projects and ideas.

We allow time for informal conversation and working on articles. Newcomers and experienced wiki users are encouraged to attend. Free Wi-Fi is available so bring your editing devices. We will have beverages (including beer and wine) plus light snacks. We will have some announcements and lightning talks from the floor, and a breakout session. This is our one year anniversary, so there will be cake!

---

Please RSVP here, and bring a photo ID that matches your registration name. This also helps us figure out how much food and drink to bring in.

---

See you soon! Ben Creasy and Wayne
(Subscribe/Unsubscribe to this talk page notice here) | MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 06:19, 26 April 2017 (UTC)

Everybody is invited to the May 31 Bay Area WikiSalon series!

Please join us in downtown San Francisco!

The last Wednesday evening of every month, wiki enthusiasts gather at Bay Area WikiSalon to collaborate, mingle, and learn about new projects and ideas. This month we are taking it on the road to Noisebridge makerspace/hackerspace!

We allow time for informal conversation and working on articles. Newcomers and experienced wiki users are encouraged to attend. Free Wi-Fi is available so bring your editing devices. We will have beverages (including beer and wine) plus light snacks. There will be periodic guided tours of Noisebridge. You can stay late, on your own! YeeHaw!

---

For details and to RSVP, see: Wikipedia:Bay Area WikiSalon, May 2017

---

See you soon! Ben Creasy and Wayne
(Subscribe/Unsubscribe to this talk page notice here) | MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 06:07, 24 May 2017 (UTC)

The Bay Area WikiSalon is an unSalon this month!

Please stay where you are for an unSalon!

We are taking July off! Please gather your thoughts for changes that you would like to see in the next 10 months and present them at our July 26 WikiSalon.

Ordinarily, the last Wednesday evening of every month, wiki enthusiasts gather at the Bay Area WikiSalon series to collaborate, mingle, and learn about new projects and ideas.

We normally allow time for informal conversation and working on articles. Newcomers and experienced wiki users are encouraged to attend.

---

Mark your calendars now for Wednesday, July 26 at 6 p.m.! The venue will be the Noisebridge hackerspace/makerspace on Mission Street in San Francisco.

---

Sincerely, Ben Creasy and Wayne | (Subscribe/Unsubscribe to this talk page notice here) | MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 04:44, 28 June 2017 (UTC)

The Black Woman is God Edit-a-Thon in San Francisco, July 22

You're invited to The Black Woman is God Edit-a-Thon at SOMArts in San Francisco on Saturday July 22, 1-4 pm. It'll be at 934 Brannan Street (between 8th & 9th). Everyone is welcome to join this editing event, held in conjunction with The Black Woman is God exhibition to raise the online visibility of Black women artists and challenge the gaps in art history that erase or minimize Black women’s contributions as artists, activists and social change-makers. (Message requested by Dreamyshade and delivered on 14:23, 9 July 2017 (UTC). You can subscribe/unsubscribe to San Francisco event talk page notices here.)

What is Talk Page Theatre? Come find out!

Please join us in downtown San Francisco!

Come find out what "Talk Page Theatre" is all about! The last Wednesday evening of every other month, wiki enthusiasts gather at Bay Area WikiSalon to collaborate, mingle, and learn about new projects and ideas.

---

We allow time for informal conversation and working on articles. Newcomers and experienced wiki users are encouraged to attend. Free Wi-Fi is available so bring your editing devices. We will have beverages (including beer and wine) plus light snacks. We will be at the NEW Wikimedia Foundation offices! w00t!!!

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Please note: You should RSVP here, and bring a photo ID that matches your registration name. This also helps us figure out how much food and drink to bring in.

---

For further details, see: Wikipedia:Bay Area WikiSalon, November 2017

---

See you soon! Ben Creasy, Nikikana, and Wayne | ( Subscribe/Unsubscribe to this talk page notice ) | MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 09:30, 14 November 2017 (UTC)

SFMOMA Edit-a-Thon in San Francisco, March 8

You're invited to an Art+Feminism Edit-a-Thon at SFMOMA in San Francisco on Thursday March 8, 5-9 pm. It'll be at 151 Third Street, 2nd floor, free to the public. Everyone is welcome to participate in an evening of communal updating of Wikipedia entries on subjects related to gender, art, and feminism. (This message is from User:Dreamyshade. You can subscribe/unsubscribe to San Francisco event talk page notices here.)
MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 12:58, 4 March 2018 (UTC)

Bay Area WikiSalon invitation!

Please join us in downtown San Francisco!

Periodically, on the last Wednesday evening of the month, wiki enthusiasts gather at Bay Area WikiSalon to munch, mingle, and learn about new projects and ideas.

We allow time for announcements, informal conversation and working on articles. Newcomers and experienced wiki users are encouraged to attend. Bring a friend! Free Wi-Fi is available so bring your editing devices. This months focus is images!

We will have beverages (including beer and wine) plus light snacks (maybe pizza too!).

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For further details and to RSVP, please see: Wikipedia:Bay Area WikiSalon, May 2018 (note: we are meeting at the new WMF HQ at 120 Kearny Street!)

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See you soon! Ben Creasy, Nikikana, Stephen, and Wayne | (Subscribe/Unsubscribe to this talk page notice here) | MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 19:22, 21 May 2018 (UTC)

UPDATE! Bay Area WikiSalon moved to June 6!

Please join us in downtown San Francisco!

Our apologies, but we are rescheduling to Wednesday, June 6 at 6:00 p.m. due to a WMF host scheduling conflict.

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For further details and to RSVP, please see: Wikipedia:Bay Area WikiSalon, June 2018 (note: we are meeting at the new WMF HQ at 120 Kearny Street!)

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See you soon! Niki, Ben, Stephen, and Wayne | (Subscribe/Unsubscribe to this talk page notice here) | MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 03:38, 25 May 2018 (UTC)

REMINDER: Bay Area WikiSalon is Wednesday, June 6

Please join us in downtown San Francisco!

When: Wednesday, June 6 at 6:00 p.m.

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For details and to RSVP, please see: Wikipedia:Bay Area WikiSalon, June 2018 (note: we are meeting at the new WMF HQ at 120 Kearny Street!)

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See you soon! Niki, Lodewijk, Ben, Stephen, and Wayne | (Subscribe/Unsubscribe to this talk page notice here) | MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 00:41, 5 June 2018 (UTC)

Bay Area WikiSalon invitation for July 25!

Please join us in downtown San Francisco!

Periodically, on the last Wednesday evening of the month, wiki enthusiasts gather at the Bay Area WikiSalon series to munch, mingle, and learn about new projects and ideas.

We allow time for announcements, informal conversation and working on articles. Newcomers and experienced wiki users are encouraged to attend. Bring a friend! Kid/family friendly. Free Wi-Fi is available so bring your editing devices. This months focus is reliable sources!

We will have beverages (including beer and wine) plus light snacks (maybe pizza too!).

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For further details and to RSVP, please see: Wikipedia:Bay Area WikiSalon, July 2018 (note: we are meeting at the new WMF HQ at 120 Kearny Street!)

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See you soon! Avik (User:Quantumavik), Lodewijk (User:Effeietsanders), Ben Creasy (User:Ben Creasy), Stephen (User:Slaporte), and Wayne (User:Checkingfax)
(Subscribe/Unsubscribe to this talk page notice here) | MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 15:14, 19 July 2018 (UTC)

Bay Area WikiSalon invitation for September 26!

Please join us in downtown San Francisco!

Periodically, on the last Wednesday evening of the month, wiki enthusiasts gather at the Bay Area WikiSalon series to munch, mingle, and learn about new projects and ideas.

We allow time for announcements, informal conversation and working on articles. Newcomers and experienced wiki users are encouraged to attend. Bring a friend! Kid/family friendly. Free Wi-Fi is available so bring your editing devices. This months' focus is Did you know ... ?

We will have beverages (including beer and wine) plus light snacks (maybe pizza too!).

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Details and RSVP here (note: we are meeting at the new WMF HQ at 120 Kearny Street!)

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See you soon! Avik (User:Quantumavik), Lodewijk (User:Effeietsanders), Ben Creasy (User:Ben Creasy), Stephen (User:Slaporte), and Wayne (User:Checkingfax)
(Subscribe/Unsubscribe to this talk page notice here) | MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 02:45, 18 September 2018 (UTC)

Last call for RSVPs for Wednesday evening

Please join us in downtown San Francisco!

Hey, folks.​ Reminder:​ Wednesday evening ​at 6 ​is the Bay Area WikiSalon series​.​

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Details and RSVP here (note: we are meeting at the new WMF HQ at 120 Kearny Street!)

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See you soon! Avik (User:Quantumavik), Lodewijk (User:Effeietsanders), Ben Creasy (User:Ben Creasy), Stephen (User:Slaporte), and Wayne (User:Checkingfax)
(Subscribe/Unsubscribe to this talk page notice here) | MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 06:32, 26 September 2018 (UTC)

You are cordially invited to Stanford University to celebrate Wikipedia's birthday

Join us in celebrating Wikipedia's 18th birthday at Stanford University!

I am delighted to invite you to the 2019 Wikipedia Day party at Stanford, which will be held on Tuesday, January 15, 2019, at 5:00-8:30pm.

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There will be pizza, cake, and refreshments; both newcomers and experienced Wikimedians are welcome! We will have a beginner track with tutorials, and an advanced track with presentations, lightning talks, and tips and tricks. Admission is free, and you do NOT have to be a Stanford University student to attend.

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Details and RSVP here • register here

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See you soon! All the best, Kevin (aka L235 · t · c)
(Subscribe/Unsubscribe to this talk page notice here) | MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 22:40, 5 January 2019 (UTC)

You are cordially invited to the SPIE Photonics West edit-a-thon on 02.02.2020

Join us for the SPIE Photonics West edit-a-thon this Sunday, 02.02.2020!

I am delighted to invite you to the SPIE Photonics West 2020 edit-a-thon, at Park Central Hotel (Franciscan I, 3rd Level / 50 Third Street / San Francisco, California), on Sunday, February 2, 2020, at 5:00-7:00pm.

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Newcomers and experienced Wikimedians are welcome to participate alongside SPIE conference attendees. Admission is free. Training will be provided.

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Details and sign-in here

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See you soon! All the best, --Rosiestep (talk) 06:59, 31 January 2020 (UTC) via MassMessaging