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The Signpost
18 November 2024
Some things I could ponder or do
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Questions

Should venous thrombosis be a definition and a disambiguation to deep vein thrombosis, superficial vein thrombosis, and venous thromboembolism? Should superficial thrombophlebitis redirect to superficial vein thrombosis? Does thrombophlebitis deserve its own article? Probably more than phlebothrombosis does

Is the National Acupuncture Detoxification Association notable?

Potential secondary sources
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  • Darvall K, Bradbury A (2012). "Pathways for venous thromboembolic prophylaxis in medical and surgical patients". Phlebology. 27 Suppl 2 (2_suppl): 33–42. doi:10.1258/phleb.2012.012S36. PMID 22457303.
  • Romualdi E, Dentali F, Rancan E, Squizzato A, Steidl L, Middeldorp S; et al. (2013). "Anticoagulant therapy for venous thromboembolism during pregnancy: A systematic review and a meta-analysis of the literature". J Thromb Haemost. 11 (2): 270–81. doi:10.1111/jth.12085. PMID 23205953. {{cite journal}}: Explicit use of et al. in: |author= (help)CS1 maint: multiple names: authors list (link)
  • Fox BD, Kahn SR, Langleben D; et al. (2012). "Efficacy and safety of novel oral anticoagulants for treatment of acute venous thromboembolism: Direct and adjusted indirect meta-analysis of randomised controlled trials". BMJ. 345: e7498. doi:10.1136/bmj.e7498. PMC 3496553. PMID 23150473. {{cite journal}}: Explicit use of et al. in: |author= (help)CS1 maint: multiple names: authors list (link)
  • Greer DM, Styer AK, Toth TL; et al. (2010). "Case records of the Massachusetts General Hospital. Case 21-2010. A request for retrieval of oocytes from a 36-year-old woman with anoxic brain injury". N Engl J Med. 363 (3): 276–83. doi:10.1056/NEJMcpc1004360. PMID 20647203. {{cite journal}}: Explicit use of et al. in: |author= (help); Unknown parameter |month= ignored (help)CS1 maint: multiple names: authors list (link)
  • "Venous thromboembolic diseases: The management of venous thromboembolic diseases and the role of thrombophilia testing". National Institute for Health and Clinical Excellence. 2012.
  • Baglin T (2012). "Inherited and acquired risk factors for venous thromboembolism". Semin Respir Crit Care Med. 33 (2): 127–37. doi:10.1055/s-0032-1311791. PMID 22648484.
  • Baglin T, Bauer K, Douketis J; et al. (2012). "Duration of anticoagulant therapy after a first episode of an unprovoked pulmonary embolus or deep vein thrombosis: guidance from the SSC of the ISTH". J Thromb Haemost. 10 (4): 698–702. doi:10.1111/j.1538-7836.2012.04662.x. PMID 22332937. {{cite journal}}: Explicit use of et al. in: |author= (help)CS1 maint: multiple names: authors list (link)
Incident vs. recurrent
Vandalism on medically-related featured articles
  • [10] 37 min, 13 Feb 2012, Lung cancer.
  • [11] 54 min, 6 Mar 2012, Helicobacter pylori.
  • [12] 102 min, 7 Mar 2012, Schizophrenia.
  • [13] 91 min, 30 Mar 2012, Coeliac disease.
  • [14] 148 min, 12 April 2012, Menstrual cycle.
Miscellaneous
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Vandalism on medically-related good articles 111 min, 8 Mar 2012, Hepatitis B; Bugs: [15], [16]&[17]; Promotion; Commentary on neutrality, A good contribution: Talk:Malaria/GA2; FA advice; From a reader, a thank you; [18]; assignment[19]

WikiProject Medicine assessment statistics
Medicine articles by quality and importance
Quality Importance
Top High Mid Low NA ??? Total
FA 7 14 20 23 64
FL 2 4 9 15
FM 77 77
GA 30 47 112 183 1 373
B 57 432 1,336 1,753 34 3,612
C 5 418 3,170 7,692 187 11,472
Start 133 4,576 17,883 1 434 23,027
Stub 1,605 9,943 509 12,057
List 23 270 580 17 890
Category 11,171 11,171
Disambig 172 172
File 479 479
Portal 540 540
Project 168 168
Redirect 456 839 5,922 7,217
Template 1,692 1,692
NA 4 27 31
Draft 3 305 308
Assessed 99 1,069 11,549 38,912 20,554 1,182 73,365
Unassessed 1 1 90 92
Total 99 1,069 11,550 38,913 20,554 1,272 73,457
WikiWork factors (?) ω = 244,958 Ω = 4.84

worklist • log • category

Translation task force assessment statistics
WikiProject Medicine Translation Task Force articles by quality and importance
Quality Importance
Top High Mid Low NA ??? Total
FA 3 5 8
GA 24 15 39
B 2 150 2 154
C 1 73 1 2 2 79
Start 7 1 8
Stub 1 1
Category 4 4
Project 3 3
Assessed 30 250 3 3 7 3 296
Total 30 250 3 3 7 3 296
WikiWork factors (?) ω = 902 Ω = 3.12

worklist • log • category


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Medicine

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Brock Walker

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Brock Walker (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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The press releases and similar do not pass GNG, and the Bru Times News appears to be paid / vanity press. I do not see citations for WP:NPROF. Little other sign of notability. Russ Woodroofe (talk) 15:03, 30 November 2024 (UTC)

Sudheer Dara

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Sudheer Dara (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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I tried to fixed the page, but i failed to fix the notability. He is an ulelected politician, fails WP:NPOL. Looking at WP:GNG, some articles including ABP News [20] looks like advertisement as it is published in Brand Wire section. Other article and citations also needs to be checked. Taabii (talk) 14:00, 30 November 2024 (UTC)

Chemxpert Database

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Chemxpert Database (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Apparent WP:PROMO violation. Article contains no third-party sourcing at all; external links provide some third-party interviews but nothing independent of the subject. On running the usual searches, I have not been able to locate anything that is even minimally suggestive of independent coverage in reliable sources, on which an encyclopedic article could be based. So I'm not sure this even meets WP:V, let alone WP:GNG, let alone WP:NCORP. (NB: there is also a "ChemXpert" software product that does not appear to be related to this company, which comes up in some Google Scholar searches.) Visviva (talk) 05:01, 30 November 2024 (UTC)

All extrenal links are removed from article. Pharmadatabase (talk) 08:56, 30 November 2024 (UTC)
  • Delete Unless this website becomes notable or is expected to be notable in the near future, I don't see a reason to keeps it. It is far from meeting even the verifiability guideline. Sangsangaplaz (Talk to me! I'm willing to help) 09:05, 30 November 2024 (UTC)
  • Delete Nothing independent found. — rsjaffe 🗣️ 11:07, 30 November 2024 (UTC)

Gynaecologists in chennai

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Gynaecologists in chennai (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Article serving no clear purpose. As written, this just generally defines what gynaecology is (a purpose already served by the article gynaecology) and briefly states that the Indian city of Chennai has gynaecologists — but there's absolutely no evidence shown here that there's anything unique about Chennai's gynaecologists that would make them different from everywhere else's gynaecologists, which is the bar that an article about this would have to clear.
You could write an almost identical article about every other city in the entire world, so there would have to be a lot more uniquely city-specific substance than just "the city has gynaecological services, the end" to justify it.
And it's referenced almost entirely to general sources footnoting the "general universal concept of gynaecology" stuff, with the only source that's specific to Chennai being a government-published directory of the city's hospitals that says absolutely nothing about gynaecology at all, so even the sourcing is failing to demonstrate that gynaecology in Chennai needs its own standalone article independently of gynaecology everywhere else. Bearcat (talk) 22:58, 27 November 2024 (UTC)

  • Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Medicine and India. Bearcat (talk) 22:58, 27 November 2024 (UTC)
  • Delete The creating editor knows exactly what they're doing (creating a WP:NOTDIR WP:ADVERT on our backs) and Sandeepchennai (talk · contribs)'s small punctuation edits are clearly trying to get extended confirmed to try to offer paid edits to providers onto the LLM'ed (badly) intro and probably expand their services to Podiatrists in chennai and etcetera. This is clearly a coatrack attempt to force an ad on here, and the piss-poor 'Google what is gynecology' sourcing and incorrect formatting of said sources only solidifies that. Thankfully this isn't title-evasion, but this is a spade. Nate • (chatter) 01:37, 28 November 2024 (UTC)
    In digging around Sandeep's edits I found the article for Mala Raj...really suspecting we're dealing with a sock nest creating a walled garden, as Dr. Raj is also from Chennai and looking at its history, they were just waiting to add her to the list once they got ECM privileges. Nate • (chatter) 03:09, 28 November 2024 (UTC)
    Just wrote up Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Sandeephbk2024. Nate • (chatter) 21:51, 28 November 2024 (UTC)
  • Delete per nom. Does not make sense as a standalone page. Draken Bowser (talk) 11:26, 28 November 2024 (UTC)
  • Speedy Delete: WP:NOTADVERT. A clear promotional or advertising piece with no claim of notability.--— MimsMENTOR talk 13:38, 28 November 2024 (UTC)
  • Delete per nom, WP:NOPROMO is a thing. Garudam Talk! 16:13, 28 November 2024 (UTC)
  • Delete: the article in question contradicts the purpose of Wikipedia. TheBirdsShedTears (talk) 17:06, 28 November 2024 (UTC)
  • Delete: WP:COATRACK, likely for sock drawer of UPE. Fails WP:GNG. Not an article by any reasonable standards 🇺🇦 FiddleTimtrent FaddleTalk to me 🇺🇦 22:30, 28 November 2024 (UTC)
  • Delete per MrSchimpf above, the ensuing and now closed SPI, and WP:SOAP: Wikipedia is not . . . a vehicle for . . . advertising. It's plausible that an encyclopedic article on the topic of gynaecology in Chennai (or more likely Tamil Nadu) could be written, but it would have nothing in common with this one, so we'd be better off starting from scratch anyway. -- Visviva (talk) 02:06, 30 November 2024 (UTC)
  • Delete per above --Lenticel (talk) 00:06, 1 December 2024 (UTC)
  • Delete per above, especially that WP:NOTFB: we are not your Chennai webhost; we are a charity in the United States. Bearian (talk) 02:49, 1 December 2024 (UTC)
  • Delete. Per nom. Page also reads as promotion and advertisement for Gynaecologists in Chennai Medical facilities. RangersRus (talk) 15:46, 1 December 2024 (UTC)

Susmita Bhattacharya

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Susmita Bhattacharya (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Since the subject does not meet the notability criteria under WP:NACADEMIC, it requires significant coverage in multiple reliable sources. Currently, the subject is supported by primary sources and has only an h-index of 7, which is insufficient to establish notability by academic standards. TheBirdsShedTears (talk) 15:38, 27 November 2024 (UTC)

Doug Drysdale

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Doug Drysdale (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Mildly WP:PROMO bio of a non-notable businessman. Despite being a WP:REFBOMB, the sources do not meet WP:GNG or WP:NBIO. They are limited to:

I didn't find anything else qualifying in the WP:BEFORE search. I also checked on the statement that he won an EY Entrepreneur of the Year Award, which might meet WP:ANYBIO#1, but it turns out he won a New Jersey region EY award (source) Dclemens1971 (talk) 00:12, 27 November 2024 (UTC)

Dick Simon (entrepreneur)

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Dick Simon (entrepreneur) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Accepted at AFC in 2015, but standards were somewhat less exacting then. Simon is presented with many references, but appears to be a WP:ROTM businessman dabbling in psychedelic drugs. Much of the rest appears to be wealthy persons hobbies. The references, especially the more authoritative ones, seem to be what Simon says, not what is said about him. Sample checking the others shows them to be of a similar nature. Fails WP:BIO 🇺🇦 FiddleTimtrent FaddleTalk to me 🇺🇦 11:30, 26 November 2024 (UTC)

Pramod Dwivedi

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Pramod Dwivedi (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Reviewed during NPP. No indication of wp:notability under GNG or SNG. Has been deleted twice before on wp:notability grounds. Of the references, the majority are links to something he wrote, one is a bio by his workplace, a few don't even mention him, and several have a brief mention, a single sentence quote or listing of him. The only reference that doesn't fall into one of the above is #13 (circa 11/25/24) which is a gazette medium length interview of him for Covid advice. North8000 (talk) 22:58, 25 November 2024 (UTC)

  • Delete and salt If this person ever becomes notable, the page may be unsalted. Fails WP:GNG, and the article interviewing him is covid, not the person per se, which doesn't really support his notability. DarmaniLink (talk) 02:28, 2 December 2024 (UTC)

Wu Sing-yung

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Wu Sing-yung (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Seemingly written by someone close to the subject, fails WP:PROF. Remsense ‥ 论 08:41, 23 November 2024 (UTC)

  • Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Academics and educators-related deletion discussions. Remsense ‥ 论 08:41, 23 November 2024 (UTC)
  • Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: History, Medicine, and China. Spiderone(Talk to Spider) 10:47, 23 November 2024 (UTC)
  • I'm finding IS ∩ RS ∩ SIGCOV at this 2016 article, this 2016 article, and this 2023 article; IS RS discussion of his work without SIGCOV at this 2009 article and this 2019 article; and an RS SIGCOV 2012 interview which I'd consider to be IS as well even though interviews are sometimes borderline.
    Fails NPROF for sure, but looks like he meets NAUTHOR (or maybe it's ANYBIO or GNG; notability guidelines confuse me). The article is a bit curriculis vitae (which is probably the wrong declension, but "CV" tends to mean "copyvio" here so expanding); this can be fixed. Not super convinced by COI hypothesis: this article is indeed the first major contribution by Singering88, but a. creating it as their userpage is a fair and common rookie mistake; and b. the subject was born 1939, lived in and was educated in Taiwan, then emigrated to the US— at no point in this chain would it be intuitive that a COI editor would choose to render the subject's native name in 簡體字 (which it has been since the initial recension).
    I could see a case here for COATRACK, since a fair portion of the prose actually deals with the subject's research into the Retreat of the government of the Republic of China to Taiwan. But I am seeing notability here, so landing at improve and keep. Folly Mox (talk) 16:36, 23 November 2024 (UTC)
    Hoc simulat curriculum vitae, perhaps? —David Eppstein (talk) 19:09, 23 November 2024 (UTC)
  • Keep. No GS profile but there seems to be substantial citations, top 410, 305, 265, 226, 169 and further ~five >100 citns, which makes a case for meeting PROF by citations for the thyroid hormone work. Seven mainstream published books are also likely to have generated enough reviews to meet AUTHOR. The article is probably readily salvageable simply by deleting all the unrelated material. If there was COI originally, the article was submitted to AfC and accepted by DGG, so that's not a reason for deletion. Espresso Addict (talk) 23:17, 23 November 2024 (UTC)

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 09:31, 30 November 2024 (UTC)

2023–2024 Gaza Strip preterm births

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2023–2024 Gaza Strip preterm births (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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This seems to be an overly specific and redundant article given the Gaza humanitarian crisis (2023–present) which already exists and provides key context needed to cover this topic. Very limited coverage on this singular issue as a standalone topic exists with such coverage normally being mentioned in passing as part of the greater crisis. Originalcola (talk) 05:12, 11 November 2024 (UTC)

  • Should be deleted as WP:G5; only significant contributions are from two sockpuppets. BilledMammal (talk) 05:17, 11 November 2024 (UTC)
  • Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Crime, Military, Medicine, Israel, and Palestine. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 06:38, 11 November 2024 (UTC)
  • Keep passes WP:GNG with flying colours. If anything, it should be expanded using the many RS that cover the subject. M.Bitton (talk) 13:12, 11 November 2024 (UTC)
    I’d strongly argue that this is not the case. Outside of regular news reporting on the crisis where passing mention is given to preterm births there isn’t any coverage of this topic as a standalone, much less significant coverage in reliable secondary sources. Originalcola (talk) 04:30, 12 November 2024 (UTC)
  • Keep - easily passes GNG, beyond that Gaza humanitarian crisis (2023–present) sits at 89 kB and 14,335 words of readable prose, making it WP:TOOBIG to absorb all this material and this an appropriate WP:SPINOFF for size reasons. And no, this does not qualify for G5, as I myself have a non-trivial edit there. Last I checked I am not a sock of a banned user. nableezy - 18:15, 11 November 2024 (UTC)
    Did I miss something? As far as I can tell, the only edit you have is reverting a sock? BilledMammal (talk) 03:50, 12 November 2024 (UTC)
    That is still a substantive edit. nableezy - 13:08, 12 November 2024 (UTC)
    I think you're misinterpreting the intent of the rule there, although there are other non-sock editors who have made substantive non-revert posts. Originalcola (talk) 02:40, 13 November 2024 (UTC)
    A merger would probably only add 100-200 words to whatever article it’s merged with. It might make more sense to merge it with Effect of the Israel–Hamas war on children in the Gaza Strip if size is still too great a concern. Originalcola (talk) 04:44, 12 November 2024 (UTC)
    How do you figure that unless you gut the entirety of what is merged? nableezy - 13:12, 12 November 2024 (UTC)
    It was a guesstimate but when merging you'd probably not transfer the lead and background. Both articles have a section or a decent amount of information on Gaza preterm births already, so you wouldn't have to copy all 797 words on this page over. Originalcola (talk) 03:09, 13 November 2024 (UTC)
  • Comment I don’t really care if the article is deleted or merged, but I removed several sources that were either live updates from news liveblogs or Tweets. So I think the article needs cleaning up. Also I think it is written in news reporting style: on November 12, X happened, then on November 13, Y happened, etc…. I don’t think Wikipedia is supposed to have so many articles written like this unless I am misunderstanding WP:NOTNEWS. More experienced editors may be able to help improve the article and sourcing. Wafflefrites (talk) 05:00, 12 November 2024 (UTC)
  • Delete per WP:G5. Achmad Rachmani (talk) 08:46, 12 November 2024 (UTC)
  • Keep There is a raft of relevant coverage from aid agencies, rights groups and all the major newsorgs (just search premature babies Gaza to see) so GNG is easily met, passing mention is simply untrue. The article does need improvement but that's not a reason to delete, I already restored one item adding a secondary to deal with a "newsblog" complaint (these sources are already used in other related articles, btw). G5 was already tried twice and successfully challenged leading to this AfD so "per WP:G5" is not a reason to delete either. Selfstudier (talk) 12:19, 12 November 2024 (UTC)
    According to another experienced editor on here, “No pages should really be using live blogs long-term as sources. This is a WP:NOTNEWS issue as much as anything else. Because yes, live blogs are just a stream of off-the-cuff news and unredacted commentary.” Per WP:NEWSBLOG, they should be used with caution. Wafflefrites (talk) 14:12, 12 November 2024 (UTC)
    What's "unredacted commentary"? Anyway, I added a secondary to the restored material so not a problem. Just some work to locate secondaries, that's all. Selfstudier (talk) 14:17, 12 November 2024 (UTC)
  • Delete I have to be honest. Everything that CarmenEsparzaAmoux touched leaves a sour taste in my mouth. When we're crying out for neutrality and independence in this contentious area, the consequences of their actions are so destructive and this isn't about sides. It would be similarly damaging if they were making pro Israel edits. Sticking to the facts about this article - I have to agree with the citing of WP:G5 MaskedSinger (talk) 19:27, 12 November 2024 (UTC)
  • Delete - as noted above, G5 alone is a good reason to delete, as is WP:SOAP. I’m entirely sympathetic to the issues - I created Palestinian law - but we are also primarily a news organization. Bearian (talk) 19:49, 12 November 2024 (UTC)
    • Comment "we are also primarily a news organization" That is news to me. Since when are we supposed to simply offer news coverage instead of being an encyclopedia? Dimadick (talk) 14:25, 24 November 2024 (UTC)
  • Keep - I've already restored most of the deleted content, it wasn't hard to find proper sources to back it up, and I've also added more information. The topic is notable. I don't fully agree with WP:G5 - being a sockpuppet doesn't necessarily means all your edits are trash. We should keep what is salvageable, and in this case, I don't see any significant issues with the existing article, which can certainly be expanded. - Ïvana (talk) 01:51, 13 November 2024 (UTC)
    Kudos to you for doing that, but there's still a complete lack of secondary sources on this page, with non-routine news coverage on the topic of this article not existing. I don't think this is the right venue to talk about the merits of the G5 rule. Originalcola (talk) 03:07, 13 November 2024 (UTC)
    Routine news coverage is about announcements and scheduled events. All of the sources in the article are secondary and all of them are non-routine. nableezy - 01:42, 15 November 2024 (UTC)
    I don't know why I mentioned WP:ROUTINE, I meant to say sources that weren't news articles or similar primary sources. Originalcola (talk) 22:27, 26 November 2024 (UTC)
  • Comment - I'm going to ignore the completely reasonable "I don't think this is the right venue to talk about the merits of the G5 rule". My view is that the G5 condition "...and that have no substantial edits by others not subject to the ban or sanctions" is a mistake. It's a self-defeating strategy that rewards and incentivizes ban evasion by over-estimating the importance of preserving content and under-estimating the importance of having effective ban evasion countermeasures. I think articles created by people employing deception in contentious topic areas where socks are common should be deleted even if there are hundreds of 'substantial edits' by other editors, even if there are tens of thousands of daily pageviews, and even if the article has attained featured article status. If the subject matters, other people, not employing deception, will have the same idea at some point and create it again. There's no deadline for content or need to take a short-term view. Anyway, having got that futile rant out of the way, I don't know what "substantial edits by others" actually means in terms of quantities, but here are the quantities in the form of token counts for the content of the current version of the page.
    CarmenEsparzaAmoux 67.3%, Ïvana 15.3%, MWQs 8.9%, Wafflefrites 4.2%, with Nableezy, Pincrete, טבעת-זרם each having less than 1%.
Sean.hoyland (talk) 14:14, 15 November 2024 (UTC)
  • Uninvolved admin note, G5 had been brought up and the tag has also been declined twice. Rather than continuing to litigate that procedural element, please focus on whether the subject is notable and/or if it should be merged. The decision will be made on community consensus and not speedy grounds. Star Mississippi 21:26, 15 November 2024 (UTC)
  • Redirect to Effect_of_the_Israel–Hamas_war_on_children_in_the_Gaza_Strip#Premature_babies where this is already covered at the appropriate level of detail. We are an encyclopedia, not a news organization, which means that it is inappropriate to cover a current event at this minute level of detail. Being created by a blocked sock does not help. Sandstein 19:24, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Doczilla Ohhhhhh, no! 20:15, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

Delete -After looking at the arguments, I still think that deletion is the best approach. There's no significant coverage on pre-term births that could meet the standards of notability as per WP:GNG. At present, all the sources on the page are primary sources (predominantly news reports) and there does not exist secondary sources focused mainly on the topic of this article. Even if such coverage did exist, which is doubtful, no editor has made a convincing reason as to why the content of this article would not be better served as part of another larger article as per the reasons I stated when initially proposing this page for deletion. Originalcola (talk) 01:50, 19 November 2024 (UTC)
Double vote Nomination already implies that the nominator recommends deletion (unless indicated otherwise), and nominators should refrain from repeating this per Wikipedia:Articles for deletion Selfstudier (talk) 10:37, 19 November 2024 (UTC)
Apologies, I didn't mean to double vote there and shouldn't have used a bold heading. Originalcola (talk) 03:40, 26 November 2024 (UTC)
G5 is absolutely a reason to delete. That editor's edits should be completely stripped from the article history and entirely removed from view/access. I support a redirect. Not a merge.4meter4 (talk) 16:58, 25 November 2024 (UTC)
I have made edits to that article, G5 does not apply. nableezy - 17:07, 25 November 2024 (UTC)
An admin has already stated that G5 won't apply here. Besides, someone already tried to do a speedy deletion and it was contested. Originalcola (talk) 03:39, 26 November 2024 (UTC)
  • Keep, meets WP:GNG with plenty of coverage in academia [33] [34] [35] [36] and news media [37] [38] [39] [40] [41] [42]. Topic could be broadened to not just focus on 2023-2024, but Gaza overall, as this has been the subject of WP:SIGCOV prior to the war [43] [44] [45]. I'm not seeing any persuasive argument for merging this with parent articles. Levivich (talk) 01:19, 26 November 2024 (UTC)
    None of the academic sources cited seem to include more than a single sentence mentioning premature births. [2] doesn't even include a sentence on premature births, just having the word prematurity in a list. This is clearly trivial coverage in articles in which preterm births are not the main focus. The issue with using news articles is that this article assumes that much of the coverage is in relation to individual events like the raid on Al-Shifa last year and thus don't actually say much about preterm births. These events may or may not be notable, but there still remains a clear lack of depth and duration of coverage of increases in pre-term deaths, premature births or anything similar. With regard to the claim that preterm births in a specific area of a country, I would also disagree, especially since all 3 of the sources are masters theses. These are not only unreliable sources by the standards of Wikipedia but also don't seem to have any reason to be linked to what's going on in Gaza right now. Originalcola (talk) 04:37, 26 November 2024 (UTC)
    Even if we forget about all the academic sources, it still meets GNG based on the news media sources, and those are appropriate sources for a current event such as this war. The news RS don't just focus on one event/hospital (and the selection I posted aren't all of them; more are in the article). Levivich (talk) 07:24, 26 November 2024 (UTC)
    I don't think an article on a topic like this should be comprised mostly or in whole by news articles without a good reason. GNG states that secondary sources should be used, which none of the cited news media articles are; you can't establish notability with just primary sources. The appropriateness of news articles as sources for an article doesn't mean that they themselves form the basis of notability without reliable secondary sources. It also seems that every source currently in the article is a news article and that there are no secondary sources included in the article at present.
    I also don't agree with your assertion that the articles "don't focus on one event/hospital". Sources 6,7,9 and 10 are also covering one hospital, those being al-Nasr for 6, Al Shifa for 7 and 10 and Emirati for 9. As it stands the article is currently split up into different sections on different hospitals and as such the news articles cited are predominately focused on each individual hospital or event as opposed to the wider topic of the article. In all articles premature births and deaths are mentioned as part of the wider context of the effects of this war on children in the Gaza Strip rather or individual hospitals. This is mostly the case for the news articles cited as well. Originalcola (talk) 22:21, 26 November 2024 (UTC)
    News articles form the basis of notability for all notable current events topics. You can disagree with it if you want to, but it's still Wikipedia policy that news articles are RS. Levivich (talk) 03:39, 27 November 2024 (UTC)
    News articles do not necessarily form the basis of notability for current events for a variety of reasons I hope are fairly obvious, and there is no indication that this event is notable in the articles. My issue is not that I disagree that news articles are reliable, but that the articles included lack sufficient depth and duration to establish the topics' significance. Many of the sources are reliable without doubt, but for the purposes of WP:GNG there needs to exist secondary sources of reliable nature, not just news articles which in this case are predominately primary sources. That's why I put so much weight into the fact that there isn't any academic coverage of this topic, as those are generally the highest quality secondary sources.
    TL;DR:Lack of secondary sources, overreliance on primary sources in news reports. Originalcola (talk) 16:12, 27 November 2024 (UTC)

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Relist for more commentary.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, FOARP (talk) 12:56, 26 November 2024 (UTC)

  • Merge with Effect_of_the_Israel–Hamas_war_on_children_in_the_Gaza_Strip#Premature_babies. Per nom, this article is overly specific and redundant, since the topic is adequately covered in other articles.--DesiMoore (talk) 15:44, 26 November 2024 (UTC)
  • Merge with Effect_of_the_Israel–Hamas_war_on_children_in_the_Gaza_Strip#Premature_babies. This is article count bludgeoning: yes, it's a humanitarian crisis but writing an article on every aspect when in an actual encyclopedia a sentence at most would be required is quite WP:UNDUE. Mangoe (talk) 23:23, 26 November 2024 (UTC)
    I can't believe you'd look at this article and conclude that a sentence is the most that would be written in an encyclopedia to cover this topic. How could you possibly condense it all into one sentence? What would that sentence be? Levivich (talk) 03:38, 27 November 2024 (UTC)
    It's important to note that this is the only article on Wikipedia on preterm births for a given country, region, and/or time period. Whilst only a sentence might be cutting back too much, it seems quite much without some kind of special assertion of notability, unless one were to make the argument that there should be more preterm birth pages. Originalcola (talk) 16:28, 27 November 2024 (UTC)
    WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS (or not) is not a valid reason to delete, just whataboutism. Selfstudier (talk) 16:42, 27 November 2024 (UTC)
    I just mean that an aspect of a conflict as specific as preterm births should not have its own independent article without a good reason; there is no presumption of inherent notability for preterm births in a conflict. It's certainly true that it's not enough to say that because other articles don't exist, then this article shouldn't. Conversely, there is no special reason why, in this specific case, preterm births are more notable as to warrant it's own article. Giving this topic its own page gives undue weight to this aspect of the conflict in a way that potentially breaks NPOV, which is what I was trying to get.
    Also, a small technical/semantic issue but I'd like to note that this was a comment on merging, not deleting this page. Originalcola (talk) 02:06, 28 November 2024 (UTC)
  • Keep for the WP:GNG reasons listed by others and because of WP:PAGEDECIDE - if we are trying to decide how to present information so that readers best understand it, then merging it into an already huge article seems like it would have the opposite impact. The issue in question has global attention and as others have so capably shown, RS (both academic and journalistic) cover it as a topic in its own right, so I don't see why we wouldn't do so, also. There is research from before 2023-24 that indicates that this is part of a WP:SUSTAINED issue as well. Smallangryplanet (talk) 06:54, 27 November 2024 (UTC)
    Also, children doesn't fit. There is also a woman in every pre term birth. So, it could go there or in the page on women. The ambiguity is a reason to do neither. Industrial Metal Brain (talk) 14:25, 27 November 2024 (UTC)
    I'd disagree on your point on WP:PAGEDECIDE. IMO in order to appropriately cover this topic, you need to include the wider context of the humanitarian crisis in Gaza. The article proposed to be merged into by others(Effect of the Israel–Hamas war on children in the Gaza Strip) isn't currently that large as it stands. Originalcola (talk) 16:39, 27 November 2024 (UTC)
    Honestly I'm trying to WP:AGF but I'm not sure how you can believe this ('wider context') at the same time as you unilaterally blanked a section on embryos, which provided necessary context within the article – one of the things we're supposed to consider for PAGEDECIDE. If anything, this is a sure sign that the article is necessary - it contains separate and important context for a notable issue covered extensively by RS, and merging it with another page (let alone deleting it) does a disservice to the topic and to readers, which, again, is what we're meant to consider. Smallangryplanet (talk) 13:39, 30 November 2024 (UTC)
  • Delete. Topic is too specific for a standalone article. redirect to Effect_of_the_Israel–Hamas_war_on_children_in_the_Gaza_Strip#Premature_babies as suggested above by Sandstein. Whizkin (talk) 08:43, 29 November 2024 (UTC)
    Topic is too specific for a standalone article Which policy argument says that? GNG is clearly established. Selfstudier (talk) 15:27, 29 November 2024 (UTC)
    I did reference the policy he's likely referring to in my original nomination:WP:NOPAGE. There are other similar policies that could also be argued for or against, but it does seem kind of silly to demand policy rules for every little argument. GNG hasn't been clearly established or disestablished through consensus, if it had, then this deletion discussion would have been resolved. Originalcola (talk) 19:36, 29 November 2024 (UTC)
    Please note that you have exceeded the 1000 word limit mandated by Arbcom for contributions to formal discussions. Selfstudier (talk) 19:48, 29 November 2024 (UTC)
    Then this page needs to be expanded to cover the whole topic. Not squeezed into a huge page that only covers half of it. Industrial Metal Brain (talk) 21:10, 29 November 2024 (UTC)
    That a page needs improvement is also not a reason to delete. Selfstudier (talk) 21:15, 29 November 2024 (UTC)
    I was saying we should keep it. Industrial Metal Brain (talk) 04:17, 30 November 2024 (UTC)
  • Merge. There are already articles about the Effect of the Israel–Hamas war on children in the Gaza Strip, Women in the Israel–Hamas war, Timeline of the Gaza Strip healthcare collapse, Gaza humanitarian crisis (2023–present) and attacks on individual hospitals like Al-Shifa Hospital siege. The topic is not in itself more notable than the death of other babies or children in Gaza, especially because it is incidental to the general attacks on hospitals and not a specifically targeted operation that would need its own coverage. This should be merged into the relevant articles, with some more detail included in the article about the specific hospitals. Compare this to the article Child abductions in the Russo-Ukrainian War, which was a specific operation not part of the combat itself. If it were to come out that Israel was specifically targeting palestinian children for demographic reasons (compare Ethiopian Jews in Israel#Birth control) that would maybe make it deserve a separate article. We also don't have an article about the destruction of oncology departments in Gaza because that comes with the destruction of hospitals in general, and those are already covered in articles about the hospitals themselves, in the article on healthcare and the article about humanitarian crisis. This really is not distinct enough to get its own article. Not everything has to get the same level of granularity as the hundreds of "Impact of the COVID-19 pandemic on X" articles. — jonas (talk) 15:42, 1 December 2024 (UTC)

Surgery

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Proposed deletions

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