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Talk:Zoonotic origins of COVID-19

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Action plan

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I think everyone agrees Origin of Covid-19 should be better. I didn't write this to fulfill that mission. I thought that would have been too bold - but it seems like no one is going to trust any attempt at a spinout anyway unless it's a package deal with the parent. I could remix this material into something built from the start to be a draft for the parent. I trust that if I do that, we can talk about any concerns people have with weight or secondary sources without going ham deleting everything? Sennalen (talk) 03:50, 2 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

All non-WP:MEDRS (used for WP:BMI) needs to be removed as a initial cleanup. This action is ogoing. Bon courage (talk) 03:58, 2 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I'm talking about deleting things on the future draft. If there is a problem in draft space it should be tagged for fixing, not deleted. Sennalen (talk) 04:02, 2 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Given its current state, I do not have a strong opinion about what to do with this article during work on the parent. Delete, draftify, leave it alone - all acceptable. I have my original saved to disk. Sennalen (talk) 03:59, 2 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
If the article had been a nice summary of the relevant MEDRS that would have been great. I still think there's potential for something like that (after merge) to be part of a nice restructuring across the COVID 'origin' articles which will improve things. Bon courage (talk) 09:39, 3 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Selective pressure on the nsp1 gene needs a review article in your opinion,[1] but a phase III trial saying juice cures covid "seems fine"?[2] Sennalen (talk) 15:13, 3 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
As an example of an unproven method, but yikes! on closer inspection that was not clear there. Tidied-up ... thanks! Bon courage (talk) 15:59, 3 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
So you can see the sausage being made, it's at User:Sennalen/sandbox/CovidOrigin starting with a bibliography. This would be a good time to look them over and see if any seem fatally unusable for any possible claim. As a reminder, the scope is expanding to be larger than this articles', and as a consequence the space for lab leak will be larger than it is here in an article specifically about zoonosis. That is not evidence of any secret agenda. Sennalen (talk) 17:36, 2 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Have you considered instead that it might be more informative and useful for the reader to discuss virology, epidemiology, evolution and emergence without such an emphasis on the proximal origin? SARS-CoV-2 puts "Reservoir and origin" ahead of "Virology" and seems to jump right to proximal origins. COVID-19 looks pretty unorganized and the "History" section dives right into proximal origin. COVID-19 pandemic#Epidemiology jumps right from proximal origin to case counts. There are of course many papers that directly address proximal origin, but many of the papers and sources cited for the scattered "lab leak vs zoonosis" content do not. They give as background or introduction some content related to coronavirus emergence, zoonosis and proximal origin of COVID-19 but then move on to the purpose of the paper. Editors then pick and choose from these some wording or point they want to make about the proximal origin and seemingly ignore the rest. For instance i found "The past, current and future epidemiological dynamic of SARS-CoV-2" useful and informative (it's only cited 23 times so i don't know how important it is.) Likewise i thought some of the content here could be useful for a more generic introduction to the epidemiology which could put the proximal origin within its proper perspective.
Of the now three articles dealing with origins and lab leak, and the other scattered content, all seem to mangle the use and concept of 'zoonosis', never tell me why it was important to identify reservoirs and i think really lack the background required for the reader to understand the content. It would be nice if at least one began with and focused on epidemiology rather than the politics. I think some of the content here could have been useful for doing that. fiveby(zero) 17:11, 4 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

US Congress report

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Be aware that the US Congress has issued a report claiming that COVID-19 originated in a lab. They came to this conclusion by... accusing scientists of lying to cover it up & cited a New York Times op-ed instead.

So how to handle the disproportionate amount of evidence in favor of a hypothesis that the committee didn't like? By acting like it doesn't exist. "By nearly all measures of science, if there was evidence of a natural origin, it would have already surfaced," the report argues. Instead, it devotes page after page to suggesting that one of the key publications that laid out the evidence for a natural origin was the result of a plot among a handful of researchers who wanted to suppress the idea of a lab leak. Subsequent papers describing more extensive evidence appear to have been ignored.
Meanwhile, since there's little scientific evidence favoring a lab leak, the committee favorably cites an op-ed published in The New York Times.

https://arstechnica.com/science/2024/12/congressional-republicans-conclude-sars-cov-2-originated-in-a-lab-leak/The Hand That Feeds You:Bite 17:39, 11 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 14 December 2024

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Zoonotic origins of COVID-19COVID-19 zoonotic origin theory – While zoonotic origin is the favored theory of some scientists, it has not been proven. 85.206.30.170 (talk) 15:27, 14 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Discussion

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Note: WikiProject COVID-19 has been notified of this discussion. TarnishedPathtalk 01:57, 15 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Note: WikiProject Microbiology, WikiProject Medicine, WikiProject Viruses, WikiProject Evolutionary biology, WikiProject Molecular Biology/Genetics, WikiProject Molecular Biology, and WikiProject Disaster management have been notified of this discussion. TarnishedPathtalk 14:24, 15 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Is this redundant with Origin of SARS-CoV-2?

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Origin of SARS-CoV-2 is an article. It has "zoonotic hypothesis" as the NPOV for the article. Are these therefore not the same article? Lardlegwarmers (talk) 09:18, 19 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The decision has already been taken to merge. It just needs somebody with the time/patience/expertise to do it, while respecting WP:CITEREF for the target article. Bon courage (talk) 09:22, 19 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]