Talk:List of fictional countries set on Earth

They missed Antegria.

In this article. They mention several times the countries from the game Papers, Please , however. Although they mentioned it a few times. The country of Antegria is missing. Unfortunately, I know little about the country, lesser so how to edit this page without destroying it accidentally. So if someone could help on that, it’d b great.

Making flags of fictional countries

Hi. A few months ago, I have made an effort to catalogue flags (and other symbols) of countries featured on this list, in order to later make their SVG versions to upload here. However, that's a lot of flags, and I don't have free time to work on them unfortunately. Thus, I thought to post the list here, so if anyone is interested in making some flags, they have a handy list of them. Also, feel free to add more picturs to the list if you find symbols of other fictional countries (just please don't remove anything without consulting me first).

[ Click here for the list ]

Cheers Artemis Andromeda (talk) 15:07, 7 February 2024 (UTC)

Should countries made up by YouTubers be included here?

Hi. I have noticed that there are quite a few countries that were made up by YouTubers, that are included on the list. It's mainly done by Geography Now, which is prominent geography channel. But there are also a few entires, which where done by some other YouTubers that I'm not really familiar with, but non of them seem to have even an article on Wikipedia, so I don't think they entires would be notable enough to be on this list. Should we delete some or all of those countries from the list? Artemis Andromeda (talk) 01:40, 11 February 2024 (UTC)

Where's Guarma from rdr2

Guarma is a Caribbean island in Chapter 5 of Red Dead Redemption 2 Doctor who 218 (talk) 20:17, 19 February 2024 (UTC)

Deleting fanmade content such as Hearts of Iron 4 mods, etc

Hi. I am considering if stuff like countries from Hearts of Iron 4 mods should be deleted ammong a few other things. I think there should be set a specific guidelines on which works qualify to be included in the list. In my opinion they should generally be officially published works, so books, films, tv series, video games, etc. Meanwhile, mods for video game can very much be considered unnoficial fan fiction.

And please don't misunderstand me, I do not mean any disrepct to either modder communites or fan fictio writers, as I respect the dedication that both of those require. But, I do belive they should not be counted as official media, and as such, should not be included here. Especially when, it is hard to decide where to draw the line. There are countless mods for HOI4, and who is too say, when will we stop adding countries from more and more obscure modes.

Sincerely, Artemis Andromeda (talk) 02:53, 8 March 2024 (UTC)

If the fictional countries are mentioned in published works, what difference does it make who wrote the works? The works are still available for fact-checking whether they're original works or derivative works. As far as I can tell, you're the only person who has mentioned "official" on this page, and you only did that in order to justify your complaint. "Official" has nothing to do with "notable". --Rob Kelk 16:11, 20 September 2024 (UTC)

Atlantis

Since the definition at the top of this list states: "Fictional works describe all the countries in the following list as located somewhere on the surface of the Earth as we know it – as opposed to underground, inside the planet, on another world, or during a different "age" of the planet with a different physical geography." shouldn't Atlantis, which supposedly (fictionally) used to exist but was then submerged be deleted? It doesn't fit the definition, even though it might be the first imaginary country (or island or continent) that might pop into people's minds. Does anyone object to its deletion? WordwizardW (talk) 22:44, 2 April 2024 (UTC)

Well, from my point of view, Atlantis really never existed but fictionally it was a state/island within the the same age of the Planet (Plato gives no date but it is clear that in his fiction is in the same state as Egypt) and it would be considered as a fictional equivalent to real Isola Ferdinandea.

So from my view, it should survive

LordFalk (talk) 16:49, 3 April 2024 (UTC)

This list should not include fictional takes on real or historical countries

The inclusion of Nazi Germany and the Confederate States on this list is ridiculous, the United States from Fallout even more so. These are real countries, or at least ones that historically existed. The fact that some writers have made alterations to their histories in their works doesn't make them fictional. If you were to take this to its logical conclusion, you could say Germany is a fictional country because Team Fortress 2 has a fictional German character - it has a new fictional aspect (TF2's Germany has this fictional character), but it's still a real country. Koopinator (talk) 13:55, 1 June 2024 (UTC

Pianostan has no fleshing out

I do not believe there is much in the movie, but it feels weird

Requested move 20 August 2024

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved. There were no oppose !votes here but there was a proposal to remove “on Earth”. The original support garnered more support. Best, (closed by non-admin page mover) Reading Beans 08:27, 30 August 2024 (UTC)

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List of fictional countries on the Earth → List of fictional countries set on Earth – If they're fictional, they're not on Earth. Not sure that we need to say "the Earth" either. GnocchiFan (talk) 21:19, 20 August 2024 (UTC)

I don't get whats wrong with List of fictional countries that redirects here. The list criteria is wonky given that we don't have lists of countries located somewhere other than on the surface of the Earth as we know it—blindlynx 23:12, 20 August 2024 (UTC)

Support between the two given the current name doesn't make much sense, but agree with blindlynx there may also be a better and simpler name. CMD (talk) 07:26, 21 August 2024 (UTC)

• Support List of fictional countries per blindlynx and per WP:CONCISE. Oppose the proposed longer title for the same reason. Are fictional countries even treated as a group anywhere per WP:NLIST? Sirfurboy🏄 (talk) 07:39, 21 August 2024 (UTC)
• Support the nom. As to including "on Earth", there may be many fictional countries in science fiction films or books and 'Earth' may be necessary for accuracy. Pinging TompaDompa, who may be able to answer this per their many well-researched feature articles chronicling the history of fiction set on other Solar System planets. Randy Kryn (talk) 14:07, 21 August 2024 (UTC)
  • There are certainly fictional countries on extraterrestrial locations. Off the top of my head, there is Robert Cromie's A Plunge into Space (1890), where one country on Mars has conquered all the others and turned the planet into a utopia in what is apparently meant to parallel the British Empire. There are also a bunch of stories about Mars colonies rebelling against Earth rule, such as Kim Stanley Robinson's Mars trilogy (1992–1996). Beyond Mars in fiction, there are of course stories about polities spanning multiple extrasolar locations, like the various galactic empires in works ranging from Isaac Asimov's oeuvre to Star Wars. There are also countries in works of fantasy set on fictional worlds like Gondor in J. R. R. Tolkien's legendarium (though that is ostensibly Earth in the distant past) and the Seven Kingdoms in George R. R. Martin's ongoing A Song of Ice and Fire. The real question is whether sources treat these as different from countries on fictional landmasses on Earth such as Lilliput in Jonathan Swift's Gulliver's Travels (1726) and countries on real landmasses on Earth such as Syldavia in Hergé's The Adventures of Tintin (1929–1976). There are many different possible subdivisions that could be made or alternatively not made, and however the sources do it is the way we should do it. TompaDompa (talk) 14:06, 24 August 2024 (UTC)
• Support: To ensure accuracy and prevent confusion. Waqar💬 14:29, 21 August 2024 (UTC)
• Support as proposed. To remove the "on the Earth" or "on Earth" from the title increases the scope of the list. It is not a disambiguator, rather it is directly describing the list scope. Bensci54 (talk) 16:16, 28 August 2024 (UTC)
• Support original proposal. Oppose removing "on Earth" – it's meaningful that the list is restricted to Earth, since it's common for works in the fantasy genre to feature one or more polities that exist in a world entirely separate from Earth. ModernDayTrilobite (talk • contribs) 14:09, 29 August 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Do fictional city states count as fictional countries?

Does a fictional country need to have a minimum size to be listed here, or can a fictional independent city state be listed? (Asking because most of the novel series A Certain Magical Index is set in an independent city state and wondering whether it should be listed here.) Rob Kelk 16:23, 20 September 2024 (UTC)

I don't think there's a minimum size requirement. CMD (talk) 02:55, 21 September 2024 (UTC)

Cleanup needed

This article is in dire need of cleanup. As a first step, I would suggest restricting the list to fictional countries with stand-alone articles (e.g. Syldavia) per WP:CSC. TompaDompa (talk) 11:31, 20 October 2024 (UTC)

There having been no objections, I shall start this process. TompaDompa (talk) 02:27, 26 October 2024 (UTC)

Alright, I have done something of a first pass. There remain some debatable cases, such as:

• Norsefire UK from V for Vendetta. I'm inclined to think this should be removed, as the article is about the political party rather than the country as such.
• Fictional countries from works entirely about them, such as the fictional travel guides San Sombrèro and Molvanîa, or satirical/utopian works like Erewhon and Ecotopia.
• Eastasia, Eurasia, and Oceania from Nineteen Eighty-Four, all of which redirect to Political geography of Nineteen Eighty-Four.
• Freedonia, a name given to several fictional countries per the WP:LEAD of that article.
• Dawsbergen, which redirects to Graustark (which is on the list).
• Lilliput and Blefuscu, which are listed separately.

Thoughts? TompaDompa (talk) 03:40, 26 October 2024 (UTC)

You can't just make a big change like this without any support, simply because there have been "no objections". A fictional country having a Wikipedia page is not what makes it notable. "Agrabah" has no page of its own, but to say it is not notable is ridiculous. Alex the weeb (talk) 18:38, 28 October 2024 (UTC)

Of course we can, that's what being WP:BOLD is all about. WP:SILENCE is the weakest form of WP:CONSENSUS, but it is a kind of consensus nonetheless. Anyway, the article is as I stated in my original post here in dire need of cleanup (and it has been correctly tagged as having numerous serious issues). What would you suggest to address those issues as an alternative to what I proposed? TompaDompa (talk) 19:01, 28 October 2024 (UTC)

You barely gave anyone any time to object. I would have objected had I checked my watchlist in that time. Alex the weeb (talk) 19:36, 29 October 2024 (UTC)

Barely any time to object? I made the suggestion on 20 October, implemented it on 26 October, and you didn't comment until 28 October. TompaDompa (talk) 20:03, 29 October 2024 (UTC)

The removal of swathes of unsourced fancruft seemed entirely reasonable to me. AndyTheGrump (talk) 19:04, 28 October 2024 (UTC)

The change removed more than just unsourced content. It removed pretty much everything. Very few fictional countries actually have their own articles, so making that the standard is ludicrous. Alex the weeb (talk) 19:36, 29 October 2024 (UTC)

It is certainly not ludicrous. Every entry meets the notability criteria for its own article in the English Wikipedia. is one of the WP:Common selection criteria for list articles. TompaDompa (talk) 20:03, 29 October 2024 (UTC)

Two weeks later, there have been no objections to removing unsourced content and there has been explicit support for doing so. @AndyTheGrump: for the record, would you (in addition to removing unsourced content) be in favour of restricting the list to fictional countries with stand-alone articles? TompaDompa (talk) 11:03, 14 November 2024 (UTC)

My opinion is that all items should be preserved. LordFalk (talk) 17:12, 14 November 2024 (UTC)

What do you suggest should be done to clean up the article then, given that cleanup is undeniably needed? TompaDompa (talk) 23:29, 14 November 2024 (UTC)

I do not see why cleanup is needed; that is your personal opinion.

Then do whatever you want but not pretend that I agrre with your attitude. LordFalk (talk) 18:12, 15 November 2024 (UTC)

Very well, I have removed a bunch of unsourced entries. TompaDompa (talk) 21:09, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

RfC on threshold for inclusion

What should the threshold for inclusion be?

• Option A WP:Verifiability in primary sources (i.e. the works of fiction themselves)
• Option B Verifiability in secondary/tertiary sources
• Option C WP:Notability (corresponding to WP:CSC #1)

TompaDompa (talk) 16:24, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

• A linked Wikipedia article would be all that is needed. Do any or all of the options include that or is an Option D needed? Randy Kryn (talk) 16:34, 20 November 2024 (UTC)
  • That sounds like notability (option C), unless I'm misunderstanding what you are saying? WP:CSC #1 says Every entry meets the notability criteria for its own article in the English Wikipedia. Red-linked entries are acceptable if the entry is verifiably a member of the listed group and it is reasonable to expect an article could be forthcoming in the near future. TompaDompa (talk) 16:38, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

My opinion (but again you do not care and go on removing all items against the opinion of the rest of the word): inclusion must be granted if any of all these options are satisfied; BUT many items can be enclosed if they do not satisfy any of third options. LordFalk (talk) 16:46, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

Somewhere between B and C. A fictional country absolutely should have been at least mentioned in secondary independent RS, but I don't think it needs to have its own standalone page. However the entry should be linked to at least a section in another article, like the work of fiction or its author. JoelleJay (talk) 19:02, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

Not A. I lean to C, but JoelleJay raises valid edge case situations. CMD (talk) 08:53, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

C I suppose one could describe a "hard C" option (needs to have an article) and a "soft C" option (needs to meet the criteria for a stand-alone article, but does not need to have one if it is instead incorporated in a different article per WP:PAGEDECIDE); the edge cases raised by JoelleJay above would presumably be covered by "soft C". I would probably favour "hard C", but also wouldn't be opposed to "soft C". A and B are both way too inclusive. TompaDompa (talk) 16:40, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

• C, but "soft c" and "hard c" as described above. I'm also surprised this is a discussion here and not on a policy page. Penguino35 (talk) 03:08, 26 November 2024 (UTC)

  The official rule is that every list has to establish its own Wikipedia:List selection criteria. The criteria that make sense for this list will not make sense for a List of scholarly publishing stings or a List of longest rivers of the United States. WhatamIdoing (talk) 23:40, 14 December 2024 (UTC)

• Verifiability in RS and notability of the work or its author. CurryCity (talk) 05:53, 26 November 2024 (UTC)

• C I agree with TompaDompa that A and B are too inclusive. It should be notable in someway before it is added to the list. Dobblesteintalk 21:52, 26 November 2024 (UTC)

• C, with a preference for a "hard C", and strongly opposed to A as bordering on WP:INDISCRIMINATE. Whatever happens there's lots here which needs to go. Cakelot1 ☞️ talk 15:59, 27 November 2024 (UTC)

• B or "soft" C I oppose A on WP:INDISCRIMINATE grounds, as above, but having a full solitary article on its own is a bit too stringent, I think. It should be enough that secondary and tertiary sources discuss the location, that establishes "noteworthyness" which is typically what we look for in list entries. Throughout wikipedia, list entries generally are not asked to be able to survive WP:AFD on their own, merely meet the criteria and verifiably exist, or more stringently, exist in secondary sources. This is a case where I think the more stringent "secondary sources" rule should apply to cut down on over inclusiveness, but again... AFD notability standards are way too high for mere list inclusion. Fieari (talk) 05:06, 12 December 2024 (UTC)

Why is the Allagan Empire part of this list?

The Allagan Empire from Final Fantasy XIV is set on The Source/Etheirys. Why is it included in this list?? Sylvecario (talk) 03:10, 23 November 2024 (UTC)

Presumably in error, then. I've removed it. TompaDompa (talk) 16:14, 23 November 2024 (UTC)