Wikipedia talk:Reliable sources/Perennial sources/Archive 10

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Archive 10

Merging some entries

To reduce the number of entries in the list, I propose we merge some into broader categories.

Merge entries: Academia.edu + ResearchGate, add HAL Open Archives, Zenodo into "academic repository"

Before

Perennial sources

Source	Status (legend)	Discussions			Uses
		List	Last	Summary
Academia.edu		1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8	2024	Sources from Academia.edu may or may not be reliable. Academia.edu allows anyone to upload articles, so it doesn't confer any reliability, but the articles have often been published elsewhere first in which case the reliability of an article depends on whether the original source is reliable. When possible, use the original source in preference to Academia.edu.	1
ResearchGate WP:RESEARCHGATE 📌 WP:RGATE 📌		1 2 3 4	2022	ResearchGate is a social network that hosts a repository of user-generated publications, including preprints. ResearchGate does not perform fact checking or peer reviewing, and is considered a self-published source. Verify whether a paper on ResearchGate is also published in a peer-reviewed academic journal; in these cases, cite the more reliable journal and provide an open access link to the paper (which may be hosted on ResearchGate).	1

After

Perennial sources

Source	Status (legend)	Discussions			Uses
		List	Last	Summary
Academic repositories WP:ACADREP 📌 WP:ACADEMIA.EDU 📌 WP:RGATE 📌 WP:HAL 📌 WP:ZENODO 📌		+20	2024	General repositories like Academia.edu, HAL Open Archives, ResearchGate, and Zenodo, host several academic papers, conference proceedings, book chapters, preprints, technical reports, etc. No filters exist for quality, and will host several unreviewed preprints, retracted papers not marked as such, unreviewed manuscripts, and even papers from predatory journals. Determine the actual source of what is being cited first, a paper from Physical Review D will likely be reliable, whereas a paper from the so-called International Journal of Advanced Computer Technology will likely not be.	1   1   1   1

Headbomb {t · c · p · b} 22:11, 6 July 2024 (UTC)

Merging into an "Academic repository" source makes sense to me. (Also, RG, Academia, and Zenodo have similar characteristics, based on the the Nature survey in ResearchGate thread.) Consider including MDPI and Semantic Scholar in the merge? I'll check if they are even present in our RS/Perennial sources.--FeralOink (talk) 19:44, 10 July 2024 (UTC)

MDPI is a specific publisher, but Semantic Scholar goes in Academic Repositories, yes. But there's a zillion such repositories, so it's hard to track them all. Headbomb {t · c · p · b} 20:36, 10 July 2024 (UTC)

Broaden arxiv to preprints

Before

Perennial sources

Source	Status (legend)	Discussions			Uses
		List	Last	Summary
arXiv WP:ARXIV 📌		1 2 3 4 A B	2015	arXiv is a preprint (and sometimes postprint) repository containing papers that have undergone moderation, but not necessarily peer review. There is consensus that arXiv is a self-published source, and is generally unreliable with the exception of papers authored by established subject-matter experts. Verify whether a paper on arXiv is also published in a peer-reviewed academic journal; in these cases, cite the more reliable journal and provide an open access link to the paper (which may be hosted on arXiv).	1

After

Perennial sources

Source	Status (legend)	Discussions			Uses
		List	Last	Summary
Preprints WP:PREPRINTS 📌 WP:ARXIV 📌 WP:BIORXIV 📌 WP:MEDRXIV 📌		1 2 3 4 A B	2015	Preprint repositories, like arXiv, bioRxiv, medRxiv, PeerJ Preprints, and Preprints.org, contain papers that have undergone moderation, but not necessarily peer review. There is consensus that preprints are self-published sources, and are generally unreliable with the exception of papers authored by established subject-matter experts. Verify whether a preprint paper has been published in a peer-reviewed academic journal; in these cases, cite the more reliable journal and provide an open access link to the paper (which may be hosted on the preprint repository).	1   1   1

Headbomb {t · c · p · b} 22:19, 6 July 2024 (UTC)

Seems reasonable to me. — Red-tailed hawk _(nest) 01:43, 9 July 2024 (UTC)

Done. Headbomb {t · c · p · b} 19:20, 10 July 2024 (UTC)

Wen Wei Po

Should the outcome of this RfC, Wikipedia:Reliable_sources/Noticeboard/Archive_306#RfC:_Wen_Wei_Po, be reflected at WP:RSPSOURCES? - Amigao (talk) 01:54, 11 July 2024 (UTC)

Worldatlas.com

Is world atlas reliable? Used in a lot of articles but it feels a little clickbaity to me. — 48JCL 00:47, 11 July 2024 (UTC)

@48JCL, WP:RSN is the right place for that question. RSP is just a list of of sources that have been repeatedly discussed there. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 18:30, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

Thx — 48JCL 18:31, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

Can Rotten Tomatoes be used for birth info

Why can’t rotten tomatoes be used for birth info if the same birth info is used on IMBD Tnays20 (talk) 22:19, 17 July 2024 (UTC)

No. Neither RT nor IMDB should be used for birth dates. Firefangledfeathers (talk / contribs) 22:31, 17 July 2024 (UTC)

@Tnays20 IMDb itself is not reliable. (Please see WP:IMDB.) Finding something there does not help Rotten Tomatoes' credibility at all. @Firefangledfeathers is correct. Neither source should be used for any biographical details. Eddie Blick (talk) 00:54, 18 July 2024 (UTC)

But I was told by the user:Laterthanyouthink (talk) that he remembers an earlier talk page discussion about RT bios where the editors concerned agreed that it was acceptable for DOB. And that he added some notes and other sources on the talk page of the article. Tnays20 (talk) 01:32, 18 July 2024 (UTC)

Here's the RfC from last summer regarding Rotten Tomatoes.[1] The consensus was that it's okay to use for movie reviews and ratings as it's core purpose. However it's not a reliable source when it comes to biography details as it's not a journalism site and it doesn't provide any information as to how the material is obtained or verified. Which is a huge red flag when it comes to using such pages as a reliable source for BLPs. Kcj5062 (talk) 02:08, 18 July 2024 (UTC)

Recent IP edits

Are these 2 edits correct? [2] And should the page be protected? I'm not sure I'm happy with IPs editing it. This seems to be based on the short dicussion Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Noticeboard#TechTimes. Doug Weller talk 14:01, 25 July 2024 (UTC)

@Doug Weller: I don't think that's the link you meant to inlcude in your post. As to the edits I think the IP was trying to be helpful, if misguided. The original discussion (see Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Noticeboard/Archive 364#Tech Times (techtimes.com), iTech Post (itechpost.com), Gamenguide (gamenguide.com)) shows the sources isn't reliable, but I don't think there's any need to add it to RSP. The IP reverted themselves, and started a new discussion on RSN. -- LCU ActivelyDisinterested «@» °∆t° 15:08, 25 July 2024 (UTC)

@ActivelyDisinterested Great. That's what we need to happen. I think the link is the one I wanted, the IP's discussion.

Still, should IPs and new editors be editing such an important page / Doug Weller talk 16:49, 25 July 2024 (UTC)

The first link in your post (directly after Are these 2 edits correct?) leads to a shop listing for a 'ResMed ClimateLineAir™ 10'. -- LCU ActivelyDisinterested «@» °∆t° 16:55, 25 July 2024 (UTC)

Damn iPad. Sorry. Doug Weller talk 17:44, 25 July 2024 (UTC)

swentr.site (RT mirror)

The above site, brought to my attention by this paper, is an RT mirror so should be linked under RT's deprecated section. The report also lists a number of websites which seem to re-publish RT stories verbatim, so well worth a read and possibly including these in the list too. GnocchiFan (talk) 22:03, 28 July 2024 (UTC)

word missing in WP:THESUN

This deprecation does not apply to the broadsheet publication of the same name, that existed before the Murdoch from 1964–1969. Before the Murdoch paper, acquisition, ...? -sche (talk) 21:15, 29 July 2024 (UTC)

'the Murdoch' shouldn't be there, I'll correct it. When I added the sentence I rewrote it before publishing but apparently forgot to remove that fragment. -- LCU ActivelyDisinterested «@» °∆t° 09:23, 30 July 2024 (UTC)

models.com

• Wikipedia:Reliable_sources/Noticeboard/Archive_256#Reliability_of_models.com,_just_as_a_source_for_images_of_magazine_covers
• Wikipedia:Reliable_sources/Noticeboard/Archive_358#Models.com_for_1)_interviews_and_2)_ranking_lists
• Wikipedia:Reliable_sources/Noticeboard/Archive_432#Models.com_rankings

Is it worth adding? It's used quite a lot:[3]. Their about-page: [4]. Ping @AndyTheGrump if you have an opinion. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 10:38, 3 August 2024 (UTC)

I made my opinion on models.com entirely clear in the discussion of 'rankings' linked above. A single quote from their 'about' page seems quite sufficient to demonstrate why they cannot be seen as an independent source: By joining Models.com, you can build your brand and leave a lasting legacy: Create and manage your profile page, keep your work up-to-date for clients, magazines, and other talents to see, and claim your credits for extra visibility. Paid-for self-promotion, plain and simple. The website clearly needs to be deprecated as a source. AndyTheGrump (talk) 11:47, 3 August 2024 (UTC)

Instagram pages

I know for the most part social media pages are unreliable sources. But what if the page is a relative of the subject's? I'm asking because an Instagram page is being used as a source for actress Dara Renee's full name. The page seems to belong to her father.[5] Kcj5062 (talk) 02:27, 4 August 2024 (UTC)

It shouldn't be used unless by the post is by the subject of the article themselves, see WP:BLPSPS. -- LCU ActivelyDisinterested «@» °∆t° 07:43, 4 August 2024 (UTC)

Silver Bulletin

Is the Silver Bulletin, an election projection and analysis Substack website run by Nate Silver (the founder of and former employee at FiveThirtyEight, former correspondent to ABC News, named one of the 100 most influential people by Time for his successful election predictions) a reliable source? Personisinsterest (talk) 03:03, 9 August 2024 (UTC)

You should post this to the Reliable Sources Noticeboard, this talk page is for discussions on improving the perennial sources list. -- LCU ActivelyDisinterested «@» °∆t° 09:22, 9 August 2024 (UTC)

The Telegraph again

@Hemiauchenia, the way I understood the closure review decision, the entry should be reverted to the status quo ante. Is my understanding incorrect? I'm pinging @Compassionate727 as the reviewer. Alaexis_¿question? 20:30, 9 August 2024 (UTC)

This is not how RSN discussions or RSP entries work. The people arguing for this are inveterate wikilayers who are ignoring years of precedent regarding RSN discussions. Take for instance the famous 2020 Fox News RfC, which found that there was "no consensus" for the reliability of Fox News regarding politics and science, which was closed by a panel of admins (rather than unilaterally by a non-admin as with the Telegraph RfC and reclose). By the logic of "no consensus=remains reliable/no change in the RSP entry" employed here, the Fox News entry at RSP should not have changed, yet it was changed and the change was widely accepted at the time. Many entries on RSP have "there is no consensus on the reliability of X", and yet prior to the recent Telegraph RfC the concept of "no consensus" entries on RSP has to my knowledge never been challenged. Hemiauchenia (talk) 20:44, 9 August 2024 (UTC)

This particular issue isn't about how no consensus close should be interpreted, the review closer effectively reclosed the RFC. -- LCU ActivelyDisinterested «@» °∆t° 20:46, 9 August 2024 (UTC)

Which doesn't prevent an RFC on the underlying issue, right? Selfstudier (talk) 20:47, 9 August 2024 (UTC)

I've undone the addition. Nothing on Compassionate727 talk page shows they have withdrawn their close, and the close is still in place at AN. -- LCU ActivelyDisinterested «@» °∆t° 20:44, 9 August 2024 (UTC)

I have reverted the Administrator's noticeboard close as a fail of WP:BADNAC criterion 2: The outcome is a close call (especially where there are several valid outcomes) or likely to be controversial. Hemiauchenia (talk) 21:06, 9 August 2024 (UTC)

Funny that literally the entirety of the history of how RSN no consensus closes are done can be ignored just because of a controversial topic discussion happening. Someone needs to have the backbone to actually close with a determination on one side or the other or follow RSN rules on a no consensus close, because precedent is very blatant and obvious when it comes to RSN that no consensus means no consensus on reliability for the source in question. Since RSN is about affirmative reliability determinations, whether a source is reliable needs to be something we agree on. If we don't agree, then the source can't be considered WP:GREL by definition. Follow that link, it even says in the first line "Editors show consensus that the source is reliable in most cases on subject matters in its areas of expertise". Silverseren^C 21:12, 9 August 2024 (UTC)

• I've updated the notification at RSN that the close of the RFC review has been reverted, and added the same to Compassionate727's talk page. -- LCU ActivelyDisinterested «@» °∆t° 21:18, 9 August 2024 (UTC)

  The close revert has been reverted, discussion ongoing at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard#Removal of closure Hemiauchenia (talk) 21:30, 9 August 2024 (UTC)

  The close review has been closed again, and the original RFC reopened. I've updated RSN with the details, and made a placed a new close request. -- LCU ActivelyDisinterested «@» °∆t° 16:57, 15 August 2024 (UTC)