Wikipedia:WikiProject Deletion sorting/Bands and musicians

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Bands and musicians

The Murdocks

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There's reliable coverage from The Austin Chronicle, including this EP review, but most of it is very brief concert announcements. Outside of that, I couldn't find anything of value. Seems the band was prominent locally but never broke through outside of their city. It's at least a step above GARAGEBAND, but I still don't think it's enough. QuietHere (talk | contributions) 00:03, 2 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Everyone Asked About You

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Non notable band. Toby2023 (talk) 23:45, 1 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep there are plenty of sources, both in the article and online. '''[[User:CanonNi]]''' (talk • contribs) 00:09, 2 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Mal meninga kuri

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Non-notable musician. Only sources are their social media accounts, and the only source online I found was a series of articles by "Post Courier", which doesn't seem reliable at all. '''[[User:CanonNi]]''' (talk • contribs) 23:49, 1 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Stephen Wandu Bimo

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BLP with self published and unreliable sources, mixed with fake citation that does not support most of what is written on the article, and what is factually is from a self-published source. As for notability, does not meet any of the notability criteria for a musician FuzzyMagma (talk) 18:16, 1 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Due West (band)

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I wanted to help improve the references for this article, but I found only their own social media, a small news article about a local event, and interviews (i.e. non-independent sources) with the band. If someone else can do better and improve the article, I am very happy with that outcome! But I can not find any criteria in wp:band that they seem to fit. -- NotCharizard ^🗨 17:54, 1 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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William Dunst

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Non-notable as not meeting WP:SINGER. I couldn't find a secondary source. Kovcszaln6 (talk) 19:51, 30 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Bands and musicians and Hungary. Kovcszaln6 (talk) 19:51, 30 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete as non-notable, one of many non-notable articles about members of this family created by the author. CoconutOctopus talk 20:51, 30 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per nom. Also note that the article's creator has attempted to blank this AfD. '''[[User:CanonNi]]''' (talk • contribs) 10:53, 1 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per nom. Does not satisfy the requirements of WP:GNG, WP:SIGCOV or WP:MUSICBIO. I had earlier draftified the page with advice for the creator on his or her talkpage. But he or she added it back to the mainspace pretty much ignoring all my advice. Pity. BoyTheKingCanDance (talk) 12:46, 1 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Makon

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Fails WP:NMUSIC as well as WP:GNG TheBirdsShedTears (talk) 08:54, 30 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Morrisson (singer)

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Musician and radio DJ. The claims of notability are a #15 Hot Dance Airplay song in 2006, and one of his songs playing at a club scene in an episode of a NBC TV show. Neither of these meet WP:NMUSIC. All content edits are by two accounts that never edited anything else on Wikipedia (except a deleted draft article on his band). One reference is to the charts for the #15 hit, the other is vague and to a magazine that mentions a lot of musicians in passing. Here2rewrite (talk) 18:37, 29 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Esophur

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This BLP does not meet the notability criteria per WP:SINGER and relies heavily on unreliable sources. TheBirdsShedTears (talk) 15:57, 29 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Pivot (American band)

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This is a stub article on a North Carolina band that has been unreferenced for many years. In a before search I have been unable to determine any evidence to show the subject meets WP:MUSICBIO. I'd be happy to be proven wrong - but unless something turns up, Pivot does not appear to meet notability guidelines. ResonantDis_tortion 00:10, 29 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete: I can only find one item about a similar band [1], nothing for this band. Oaktree b (talk) 02:19, 29 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete per nom. Definitely fails WP:MUSICBIO and WP:SIGCOV. Any sources about "Pivot" only talk about a separate band with the same name, but not this North Carolina one. Beachweak (talk) 13:45, 29 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete, no references and a Google search yields no results. Fails GNG. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Madeleine961 (talk • contribs) 21:31, 29 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - In addition to what the others have said above, I can also find no pro reviews of any of this band's albums or any media coverage of any of the individual members. Despite several albums they simply didn't get noticed by reliable music media. ---DOOMSDAYER520 (TALK|CONTRIBS) 14:40, 30 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Old Souls (band)

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This article came up as part of WP:NOV24. It has been unreferenced since creation in 2007. Per WP:BEFORE, unable to find any evidence the subject meets any aspect of WP:MUSICBIO. Propose delete. ResonantDis_tortion 23:59, 28 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Comment: Article appears also to have been WP:HIJACK/Aed in ~2019... Searching for sources is particularly hard as "Old souls"/"Souls" returns a lot of events that are not related to music. Shazback (talk) 20:34, 29 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - It turns out that their frontman has earned a couple of feature articles: [2], [3], but they're mostly softball interviews and only have brief mentions of Old Souls regardless. I can find nothing about the band except for the usual social media and streaming services, with no in=depth or reliable media coverage to be found. ---DOOMSDAYER520 (TALK|CONTRIBS) 14:45, 30 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Jeremi Licata

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No indication of notability, only sources are his own albums on Apple Music. A WP:BEFORE didn't find anything beyond self-published social media pages, so WP:GNG is very unlikely to be met, and it doesn't look like anything in WP:NSINGER is met either. Chaotic Enby (talk · contribs) 18:55, 28 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete. As Chaotic Enby says, Google finds nothing beyond social media posts and music download links. No significant coverage, indeed, nothing from reliable sources. - Donald Albury 22:25, 28 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete. Google News returns zero results for this artist. The article makes a lot of questionable claims, which while not a primary reason for deletion, is just something to note. Fails WP:SIGCOV and definitely fails WP:MUSICBIO. Beachweak (talk) 14:00, 29 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete Fails WP:GNG and WP:NMUSICIAN. Theroadislong (talk) 14:35, 29 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete Meiswikepiediaeditor (talk) 15:41, 29 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

You need to give a policy based reason for your decision. Theroadislong (talk) 16:49, 29 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

fails WP:NMUSICIAN Meiswikepiediaeditor (talk) 18:58, 29 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Carmine Nappi

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This article, which appears to suffer from WP:TAGBOMBING, does not establish notability per WP:MUSICBIO. While it includes WP:TOOMANYREFS, many are only passing mentions, and some do not mention the subject at all. I would have considered draftifying it, but since it is an AfC-accepted article, I have brought it here for community inputs. TheBirdsShedTears (talk) 16:53, 28 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Bands and musicians and Italy. TheBirdsShedTears (talk) 16:53, 28 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Neutral: My AFC acceptance was as a borderline acceptance, something we are encouraged to do. I have a personal policy of remaining steadfastly. neutral when an AFC acceptance of mine cones to AfD. I will be interested in the eventual outcome. 🇺🇦 Fiddle^Timtrent Faddle^Talk to me 🇺🇦 17:01, 28 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep. I think it should be allowed to breathe for a little while longer. If time passes and no better sources are added (making it definitely fail WP:MUSICBIO or WP:GNG) then deletion should be considered. Beachweak (talk) 14:09, 29 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

keep. From what I understand, the issue arises from “a lack of articles/I am not mentioned in the articles,” but upon checking the articles, everything written on the Wikipedia page is cited in the articles, and my name is also present in these articles, sometimes even in the title, such as:

• “Carmine Nappi, Music, Shows, and Management at a National Level”

• “Carmine Nappi Project and Top Records Present Giuseppe Iadonisi with the Song ‘Luna’”

• “Carmine Nappi is the Product Manager of Ella Armstrong’s New Album”

• “Carmine Nappi Project: A Remarkable Presence in the Musical and Cultural Field”

• TAG: “CARMINE NAPPI PROJECT on laprovinciaonline”

Others mention it in the text, for instance:

· “Talent Show in Naples: Sanremo & Castrocaro Objective”

o “Carmine Nappi – Producer and Manager (Carmine Nappi Project Management & Productions), National Coordinator of ‘A Voice for Sanremo.’”

· “Giuseppe Iadonisi Wins ‘A Voice for Sanremo’”

o “In recent days, an agreement was finalized between the artist’s producer, Carmine Nappi, and the record label that owns the ‘A Voice for Sanremo’ trademark, ‘Bao Bello Music,’ led by record producer Fabio Ciacci.”

o “Indeed, these days, his first album, titled ‘Il tuo domani,’ will be released on platforms via ‘Zimbalam,’ managed by Carmine Nappi Project Management & Productions.”

· “Sanremo Festival. Campanian Artists in the RAI New Proposals Category Selections”

o “Producers Guido Palma and Carmine Nappi, heads of the record labels ‘Top Records’ and ‘Carmine Nappi Project,’…”

o “The producers Carmine Nappi and Guido Palma express great satisfaction with their selections as they move towards presenting these five artists at the Sanremo competition, with much confidence. Their hope is that one of them succeeds in advancing through the selection, given the talent each possesses. The production also thanks Giuseppe Iadonisi, an artist who has worked closely with Carmine Nappi and Guido Palma in recent months to finalize work plans for the various artists, focusing on music and video aspects.”

· “Sanremo 2016: Artist Presentation for RAI New Proposals Category Selections”

o “Producers Carmine Nappi and Guido Palma express great satisfaction with their selections as they move towards presenting these five artists at the Sanremo competition, with much confidence. Their hope is that one of them succeeds in advancing through the selection, given the talent each possesses.”

o “Producers Guido Palma and Carmine Nappi, heads of the record labels ‘Top Records’ and ‘Carmine Nappi Project,’ completed the lengthy process of selecting artists for the ‘Youth Towards the Future’ project, which began in December 2014, an idea conceived by Nappi himself and the well-known Italian record producer Guido Palma, a highly respected figure in the Italian music industry, awarded the Career Achievement Award by the AFI (Italian Phonographic Association) in 2012.”

o “The production also thanks Giuseppe Iadonisi, an artist who has worked closely with Carmine Nappi and Guido Palma in recent months to finalize work plans for the various artists, focusing on music and video aspects.”

· “Ama-Man, the New Album by Giuseppe Iadonisi”

o “His second work is co-produced by the Carmine Nappi Project Group and Top Records of Milan.”

o “It is the result of a human and musical journey that has grown over time and matured with Giuseppe, to the extent of having all the credentials to be labeled ‘discographic.’ It will be co-produced by the Carmine Nappi Project Group and Top Records of Milan.”

o “The final thanks go to Carmine Nappi, the producer who believed in him and continues to support him, wishing him a special future. We at Clarus believe in him too…”

· “Nola: At the Mondadori Literary Café, the Exclusive Preview of Ella Armstrong’s New Album”

o “The EP, distributed by ‘Top Records and Carmine Nappi Project’”

o “First Record Work for Luisa Iossa, Winner of the Vallo Fest Contest 2019”

o “With a guitar for a friend and many words to put into music, she is now preparing to debut her first record work after winning the Vallo Fest 2019 festival, which gave her the opportunity to sign her first record deal with Carmine Nappi, Producer of the Carmine Nappi Project.”

· “From Terzigno to Sanremo: Pasquale Auricchio and His ‘Immense Love’”

o “Supported by his teacher and producer Carmine Nappi, to whom he feels very personally connected.”

Therefore, I do not see a lack of sources; on the contrary, I have included several articles for every cited element, confirming its accuracy and ensuring a neutral point of view based on newspaper articles. I would like to specifically understand which part of the text is not cited in the articles, creating this alleged lack of sources. Carminenappi1986 (talk) 16:51, 29 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: Carminenappi1986, simple mentions in articles to not satisfy the WP:GNG. In particular the 2nd point "Significant coverage" addresses the topic directly and in detail [...]. Significant coverage is more than a trivial mention, but it does not need to be the main topic of the source material. with the example provided: Martin Walker's statement, in a newspaper article about Bill Clinton, that "In high school, he was part of a jazz band called Three Blind Mice" is plainly a trivial mention of that band.. Looking through the articles, they indeed mention Carmine Nappi, but they do not go beyond a trivial mention or WP:ROUTINE mention.
Source 1: [4] mentions simply "Carmine Nappi – Produttore e Menager (Carmine Nappi Poject Menagement & Produzioni), Coordinatore nazionale di “Una voce per Sanremo”"[sic], with no further comments or discussion on Carmine. As such, this article does not contribute to the encyclopedic notability of the article's subject. It could be used once notability is established to show the person was part of this specific event's jury, but that is dependent on the subject passing WP:GNG. Source 2: [5] does not mention Carmine. Source 3: [6] is similar to source 1 in that the content related to Carmine is extremely limited, at best establishing that Carmine negotiated a contract with the artist, but has no discussion on Carmine - who they are, why they chose to sign this artist, what they have done prior... Similarly, some sources do not appear to be fully independent or could raise questions on independence (e.g., Source 5 [7] which is authored by Comunicato Stampa, English: press release).
There are some good sources nonetheless, I note Source 4 [8] as seeming quite good and in-depth. I note however with some surprise that the same author (Mauro Romano) is attributed authorship of both this article and of Source 6 [9] which appears to be almost word-for-word the press release published in Source 5, making me strongly question if Marigliano.net is a reliable source, and if Mauro Romano's article in Source 4 is not churnalism, which are generally considered similarly to press releases for WP:GNG purposes. This is a concern, since Mauro Romano is a... frequent author of the sources cited in the article.
Having said all this, what would you say are the WP:3SOURCES that best establish that Carmine Nappi passes the WP:GNG in your view? (Note that WP:3SOURCES is an essay, not a guideline). I may prepare a source review to share my view, but as you are the article creator you likely already have a good grasp on which sources are most relevant. Shazback (talk) 01:11, 30 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: Shazback, In response to Mauro Romano’s case, he is a former journalist for several journalistic outlets, as reported by the following articles:

“Official press agents Mauro Romano, poet and literary critic, and contributor to online newspapers such as Marigliano.NET and La Provincia” (NapoliToday)

“Worthy of note is the collaboration, at the press level, of the journalist from Marigliano.NET and ‘Provinciaonline’ Mauro Romano” (PuntoMagazine)

(And if you search, more sources can be found.)

As for the credibility of marigliano.net, the homepage itself states:

“Marigliano Copyright © 2005 - 2024 ONLINE JOURNALISTIC OUTLET REGISTERED IN THE REGISTRY OF THE NOLA COURT - REGISTRATION N° 137 OF 13/3/2007 P. IVA 07545791217 - R.O.C. 37407 [...]"

This confirms that it is indeed a registered journalistic outlet in Nola, Italy.

Regarding the issue of providing further details (“Carmine is extremely limited, at best establishing that Carmine negotiated a contract with the artist, but has no discussion on Carmine - who they are, why they chose to sign this artist, what they have done prior”), for privacy reasons, newspapers cannot disclose all legal details, such as the type of contract I have with the artist. However, on the Wikipedia page, I have reported exactly what was published in the newspapers, nothing more, and all this information is truthful and verifiable by freely searching online for each piece of information.

Thus, they cannot be considered “lies” or “churnalism,” as they are actual events. Carminenappi1986 (talk) 14:59, 30 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Los Juglares del Dexas

AfDs for this article:

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The previous discussion was closed for soft deletion, however, the reason it was restored was due to the previous nominator being a sock of a banned user. While being an NPP, I stumbled upon this article. Sadly, a quick search revealed little that would contribute to notability. Hence, I think it should be deleted. Tavantius (talk) 00:10, 28 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Varun Ahuja

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Fails WP:NM or WP:COMPOSER, I searched about the subject but didn't find much substantial information (WP:BEFORE). The Hindustan Times article stands out as slightly better and provides relevant insights about the subject. Baqi:) (talk) 10:55, 27 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: People, Bands and musicians, Music, India, and Delhi. Baqi:) (talk) 10:55, 27 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete per nom. Fails WP:COMPOSER

Zuck28 (talk) 13:37, 27 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete. Per nom. Fails WP:NMUSIC. No significant coverage on the career of the subject and any songs or albums that made it to the national charts. RangersRus (talk) 15:58, 1 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Scott Logan (musician)

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Does not meet GNG/V. Appears to be generally self-promo. Has several self-published/social media links, but no reliable sources. Was PRODded ~10 years ago, but tag was improperly removed. Google/Books/News/Archive searches turned up no potential RS. Safrolic (talk) 05:05, 27 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Automated comment: This AfD was not correctly transcluded to the log (step 3). I have transcluded it to Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Log/2024 November 27. —^{cyberbot I}_{Talk to my owner:Online} 05:12, 27 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Bands and musicians, Christianity, Maine, and Tennessee. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 06:04, 27 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. Nothing from secondary sources, all from social media handles. The article only serves to promote the subject. It fails all guidelines. Mekomo (talk) 07:07, 27 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete He's not even the first ghit, and I can't find anything in GNews. Only bluelinks in the article are name drops. Jclemens (talk) 07:37, 27 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Seleke Botsime

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This BLP has no decent sources cited, has been tagged for multiple issues for almost ten years, and my reasonable BEFORE finds nothing directly detailing. Happy to revisit this if sources are found. BusterD (talk) 05:08, 27 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete. Fails WP:NMUSICIAN. Only social media posts pop up in before search result. Mekomo (talk) 07:16, 27 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. Falls WP:GNG and WP:NMUSICIAN. Ampil ^{(Ταικ • Cοnτribυτιοns)} 05:41, 28 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

James Worthy (record producer)

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Not notable. As pointed out by Rift, the sources appear to be paid coverage, and the article appears to be written by undisclosed paid editors. See Talk:James Worthy (record producer)#Conflicts of interest. The Squirrel Conspiracy (talk) 07:33, 25 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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See also this edit. The Squirrel Conspiracy (talk) 07:36, 25 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Really? Seems overly broad, but okay. The Squirrel Conspiracy (talk) 03:57, 27 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete A familiar pattern: Discogs, Soundcloud, Facebook, no RS. Fails WP:GNG Best Alexandermcnabb (talk) 08:25, 25 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete per nom. Lots of "profiles" of Worthy on the web, yet they're all PR-firm-written puff pieces. I don't see any in-depth coverage from independent journalistic sources. Rift (talk) 21:38, 25 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete‎. Just Step Sideways ^{from this world ..... today} 23:05, 1 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Antony King

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I've looked at the sources, and they seem to be mostly a mixture of press releases, interviews, or insignificant mentions, with only a few sources that aren't. A before search turned up similar. At the very least, the article needs to be stubbified; at most, it needs to be deleted/redirected/etc. I dream of horses (Hoofprints) (Neigh at me) 23:37, 24 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Bands and musicians, Engineering, and Canada. I dream of horses (Hoofprints) (Neigh at me) 23:37, 24 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete WP:NOTCV of the 27 sources presented here, only three directly reference the subject. One is a broken link, one a YouTube video and one an award nomination. That's yer lot. There's nothing else out there to add to this. A perfectly sound chap doing a perfectly sound job, but doesn't pass WP:GNG. Best Alexandermcnabb (talk) 04:56, 25 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete as per the above discussion. There’s no allegation of notability; I don’t see anything explaining how his engineering skills contributed to making millions of dollars. I’m not seeking a Marxist critique of his excess labor, but at least that would be an indication of notability. Bearian (talk) 04:25, 29 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep Passes criteria 1 of WP:ANYBIO and criteria 4c of WP:CREATIVE as an Emmy Award nominee (see https://www.emmys.com/bios/antony-king).4meter4 (talk) 04:57, 1 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment WP:ANYBIO Criteria 1: "The person has received a well-known and significant award or honor, or has been nominated for such an award several times" - so that's ONE Emmy Nomination; WP:CREATIVE 4c: "The person's work (or works) has won significant critical attention." and where is the evidence of this? So, no, not really... My bolds, obvs... Best Alexandermcnabb (talk) 13:40, 1 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The fact that you can dismiss an Emmy Award nomination as not significant say it all.4meter4 (talk) 14:28, 1 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@4meter4 I think Alexandermcnabb is pointing that Antony King has only had one Emmy award, and the ANYBIO criterion requires multiple nominations. In any case, someone who is notable under the creative criterion, but has only received one Emmy would have significant, independent coverage outside of Emmys.com. I dream of horses (Hoofprints) (Neigh at me) 16:27, 1 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I think you are missing my point that anyone receiving an Emmy Award nomination at the national level fulfills criteria 4c at WP:CREATIVE because of the nature/significance of an Emmy nomination. It inherently is "significant critical attention". Best.4meter4 (talk) 16:33, 1 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@4meter4 You bought up the ANYBIO criterion, so I responded to that. And, as I've said already, [i]n any case, someone who is notable under the creative criterion, but has only received one Emmy would have significant, independent coverage outside of Emmys.com. And to respond to your comment, I tend to think of "significant critical attention" as something that persists over time. I dream of horses (Hoofprints) (Neigh at me) 16:35, 1 December 2024 (UTC) (Edited comment at 16:37, 1 December 2024 (UTC))[reply]

That would be true if we were just looking at one off critical reviews or in the context of a minor award/honor. Being nominated for the top honor in American television outstrips other kinds of critical assessment; particularly due to the global cultural capital that major entertainment awards (ie EGOT) have.4meter4 (talk) 16:42, 1 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@4meter4 I see your point, but I say this a new page patroller: There really does need to be a conversation about what's a "top honor" versus what isn't. You'd think it's obvious that an Emmy is a top honor, but you might be surprised how that would start a whole "other stuff exists"-type discussion. Because of that, I'm going to insist on multiple nominations for an Emmy award, and not just one. I dream of horses (Hoofprints) (Neigh at me) 18:58, 1 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

You are absolutely free to do that. I am going to insist that one is sufficient when it it is this particular award.4meter4 (talk) 19:03, 1 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@4meter4 You know what? That's fine. I'm okay with that.

I dream of horses (Hoofprints) (Neigh at me) 19:07, 1 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

Symphony of Heaven

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The more you look at sources, the more notability seems to be lacking. Many are based on band members' own words via interviews. Some other sources include articles written by band members themselves. Once you see past the notability mask smoke screen, the notability of this band appears quite thin and below meeting GNG. Also, the article was created by an undisclosed paid editing user. That editor appears to have a COI with this article. Graywalls (talk) 06:05, 23 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Bands and musicians, Christianity, and Indiana. Graywalls (talk) 06:05, 23 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

This seems like a situation I've occasionally come across where an album might be more notable than a band. Season of Death has some significant coverage from HM, The Metal Resource, and Teeth of the Divine. That last one is currently being discussed at the reliable sources notice board. I noticed the review is written by the site owner, which would mean that it can't be used for any biographical statements. The site owner is a reputable music journalist, so that does confer notability to the album. however, apart from the album reviews, most of the other stuff I'm seeing is either press release copy, interviews from unreliable or self-published sources (which are fine for verifiable statements about the band but not for establishing notability), or COI sources (The Metal Onslaught and Indie Vision Music). ~~I am leaning toward merge with Season of Death.~~--3family6 (Talk to me | See what I have done) 12:28, 23 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

per discussion with Graywalls below, I agree that this does not need to merge with one of the albums. So in that case, delete--3family6 (Talk to me | See what I have done) 01:40, 25 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

See WP:ABOUTSELF. "unduly self serving" is often black and white, but there's grey area in some cases.

For example, "first luxury boutique hotel in town" citing the hotel's page or "a 100,000 lumen flash light released in 2024" citing the manufacturer's website of a light sold for $10 on Amazon. The former is fluffing, the latter is likely objectively inaccurate. However, citing the hotel's page "is a hotel in town xxx" or the flashlight's manufacturer's as "a flashlight release in 2024" would pass for factual accuracy. In 99.99% of cases, that flashlight's page has no place being cited or mentioned AT ALL on Wikipedia though. I think WP:RS is a concept unique to Wikipedia. Much of the sources in Symphony of Heaven don't substantiate inclusion worthiness even if factually accurate. Graywalls (talk) 21:14, 23 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Basic biographical facts and album releases are fine to cite to the subject and those affiliated with the subject. But, if attributable to the subject, they don't give the subject notability. Verifiability isn't the same as notability. The flashlight hypothetical is a hypothetical and isn't relevant here.--3family6 (Talk to me | See what I have done)

That merge suggestion appears unsound though. I was only suggesting that be merged INTO this, because Season of Death is one of the many notability failing articles of Symphony of Heaven. So, that being merged into this would be reasonable if this isn't notable, but if they're both non-notable, then deletion is sometimes the sound option. Graywalls (talk) 23:20, 23 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Considering that I found three independent reliable sources for that album, it's notable--3family6 (Talk to me | See what I have done) 12:25, 24 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

If we had an article on Battery Company Inc, and separate articles on AA, C and D batteries of theirs, merging individual product into the company would make sense if the company is notable, but if we only had sources to make the AA stick, I don't believe that's a right re-direct target. That's the situation we have here. Graywalls (talk) 21:11, 24 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I don't understand your analogy. The album is notable. The band is not (or barely is).--3family6 (Talk to me | See what I have done) 23:10, 24 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It doesn't make much of a sense to merge the band into an album for the sake of saving cruft from a non-notable band. Their other non-notable albums would then re-direct, rather than merge into one of the albums. Though, my order of preerence would be Del->redir->m erge. There are three other albums, so this would be a situation where there's really no appropriate singular re-direct target. Like I said, it's like re-directing a non-notable battery company into their marginally notable "non-notable comany's AA battery" while there's an article each in existence for each of the company's battery size. As you can see, this is an illogical target. Graywalls (talk) 01:16, 25 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Ah, yes, I follow now. Yes, I suppose I agree.--3family6 (Talk to me | See what I have done) 01:40, 25 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
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The La Donnas

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Fails WP:NBAND. Been on the cat:nn list for more than 10+ years. No indication of significance. scope_creep^Talk 08:05, 21 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Bands and musicians and Colorado. Shellwood (talk) 11:45, 21 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - They have a two-sentence biography at AllMusic ([10]) and a regional newspaper article ([11]), but that's all I can find beyond the usual streaming services and occasional blog posts. They're kind of close to notability but can't quite meet the WP:THREE standard for reliable sources. ---DOOMSDAYER520 (TALK|CONTRIBS) 14:07, 21 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. I added 11 reviews directly to the article [12]; though mostly underground publications, the sample at least includes some of the more notable ones (Maximum Rocknroll) and from two continents. I'm curious to see if there is any newspapers.com coverage (which is not working at the moment.) Geschichte (talk) 15:14, 21 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Are they WP:MUSICRS references, as a lot of them looks small blogs and profiles. scope_creep^Talk 15:20, 21 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I don't think any of them are blogs, but some of them are zines. Also I would have liked for the Allmusic review, for instance (and the Allmusic bio) to be a lot longer. Geschichte (talk) 15:50, 21 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep sources identified by doomsdayer520 are a good start and Geschichte has found a number of reviews in a variety of sources, some of which are RSMUSIC. Sufficient presented here to presume notability. ResonantDis_tortion 23:36, 21 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Eva Kurowski

AfDs for this article:

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Fails WP:SIGCOV, WP:BIO, WP:SINGER. No indication of significance.Single ref is a profile. Been on the cat:nn list for 10+ years, never been updated. No coverage. scope_creep^Talk 08:24, 21 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Women-related deletion discussions. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 11:52, 21 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete: The article hasn't developed since the no-consensus AfD 13 years ago, and the de.wiki one is similar. As far as I can see, the subject continues working, in duo and band with a pianist, Dirk Balthaus; I don't see indication of meeting WP:MUSICBIO. The previous AfD had the unresolved issue of whether the Das Hungertuch Künstlerpreis was sufficient to indicate notability as an author: I notice the de.wiki article on that Prize was itself deleted later in 2012. AllyD (talk) 09:51, 22 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Can someone with access to the website and/or German-language proficiency help assess these articles from Westdeutsche Allgemeine Zeitung (WAZ): [13][14][15]? These [16][17] seem to be about her book (and an exhibit) on her relationship with her father, artist Walter Kurowski [de]. There are some other WAZ articles that are marked as "local", but I've only included the ones categorized at the city level. Bridget (talk) 01:09, 23 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Its not a lot to base notability on. It all seems to local news. The book may be notable. I see its published by Rowohlt which is an old established publisher, potentially an indication of a pass as WP:NAUTHOR. I don't think these add up to much. There is a couple of event listings and promo articles for the book. There could be more here though. scope_creep^Talk 04:23, 23 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Home Town Hero

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I wasn't able to find significant coverage of the subject in reliable sources, other than a biography ([18]) and an album review ([19]) by AllMusic, which isn't a lot. A possible alternative to deletion is a redirect to Under the Influence of Giants, since three of the members were in both bands. toweli (talk) 21:25, 14 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep The group meets WP:MUSIC with two releases on Maverick Records, and the Allmusic entries are serviceable references; they also toured nationally with Stone Temple Pilots and Linkin Park. I managed to dig up [20] this review as well, even though it's gotten very difficult to find album reviews from 20+ years ago on the Internet. Chubbles (talk) 17:33, 15 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
According to a member of Under the Influence of Giants, Bitch City was never released ([21]; according to Discogs it was apparently self-released [22]). Regardless, notability is not inherited, and I don't see Linkin Park mentioned anyway. I don't know if ink19 is a reliable source, but even if it is, there's just not enough coverage to establish notability. toweli (talk) 15:01, 16 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Leaning ~~Keep~~ as presuming MUSICBIO notability per above coverage, and given the age presuming that further coverage is likely. Further evidence is an album review available in Hits 2002; critical coverage Hits 2001; and the CMJ new music reports indicate extensive airplay, including for example: [23]. There's a lot of hits on worldradiohistory that will take time to sift. ResonantDis_tortion 18:48, 18 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I've identified further coverage on ProQuest - not major sigcov, but better than passing mentions: Detroit Free Press - they "often bore", two paragraph gig review supporting Incubus in News Gazette, album review in Morning Call, and paragraph of coverage in Billboard. ResonantDis_tortion 21:40, 18 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Merge to Aaron Bruno#Home Town Hero. First, they did not release two albums on Maverick, only one. Second, I think the reviews and other coverage falls just short of the depth that would be required. I also found more reviews, [24] [25] but as you can see these are not reliable or significant enough. Last but not least, we lack independent sources for nearly all the band history. A merger would preserve the edit history and it can be revived later if more sources are scanned/made available. Geschichte (talk) 11:21, 20 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Merge and Redirect. I can get behind this as an WP:ATD, and strike my previous !vote to keep. There is certainly sufficient reliable coverage to demonstrate a level of notability, and therefore the subject does warrant a presence on Wikipedia, but we are, at current standing, one in-depth article away from coverage to support a distinct seperate article. ResonantDis_tortion 18:46, 20 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Redirect to Under the Influence of Giants as an ATD, per nom. Although I do have SOME reservations based on the lack of sourcing and notability in that target: it's a hot wee mess, that article... Best Alexandermcnabb (talk) 11:50, 22 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Relisting as we have two different Merge/Redirect suggested target article and it would be nice to see which one has a consensus behind it.
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Davide Lombardi

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A draft that was moved into mainspace. It's mostly sourced with press releases. A WP:BEFORE search failed. I dream of horses (Hoofprints) (Neigh at me) 02:47, 14 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Bands and musicians, Engineering, and Italy. I dream of horses (Hoofprints) (Neigh at me) 02:47, 14 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Weak Keep. Passes WP:SIGCOV (barely). There definitely needs to be some serious pruning of bad promotional sources and writing, reformatting of the article, editing for encyclopedic tone, etc. However, there are four articles among the references which are independent significant coverage about Davide Lombardi; three of which are in the LightSoundJournal, which is a professional publication for light and audio engineers, and one of which is from an Italian media source. He works as a sound engineer for notable artists, so I am leaning on the keep side.4meter4 (talk) 03:30, 14 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@4meter4 That's a valid point; however, a reminder to anyone else reading this that Lombardi doesn't inherit notability from the people he works with. I dream of horses (Hoofprints) (Neigh at me) 04:30, 14 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
His notability comes through his work within his business. From the references you can see he is one of the most successful people in his own business, hence the amount of interviews and big Artists names that employ him for major projects, similar to most articles with notable knowledge, but yet not in the mainstream of press like TV stars. if that makes sense? Fabrizio Di Ninni 1982 (talk) 09:50, 23 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Fabrizio Di Ninni 1982 Getting interviewed and working with big stars don't mean you qualify for a Wikipedia article (or, to speak Wikipedian, whether or not you're "notable). Of course, whether or not you qualify is separate from whether or not you're doing important work. I dream of horses (Hoofprints) (Neigh at me) 19:04, 23 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
This is the point. The idea is to make notable to the mainstream, who is already notable, but doing a different job from music/movie stars or similars. I agree working with big Artists doesn't mean to qualify for a Wikipedia article, but simply proves his knowledge and notable position within business. There are many articles that are in similar position (studio/live sound engineers, producers, musicians). As example, looking at Antony King sound engineer Wikipedia article, who has similar (and probably less) references from the same independent coverage. This is good to expand knowledge of live sound engineering, as people like me that loves concerts and understands basics about audio, appreciates and follows what some of these people are capable to create amazing live events for us all. thank you for the discussion. Fabrizio Di Ninni 1982 (talk) 22:54, 24 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Fabrizio Di Ninni 1982 I've gone ahead and nominated the Antony King article for deletion as well; as I said in the nomination, at the very least, the article may need to be shortened significantly, and at most, deleted.

This is why people are advised to not point out that other articles exist; the "other articles" they end up pointing out usually aren't that great, either. I dream of horses (Hoofprints) (Neigh at me) 23:39, 24 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete They are all interviews - and in trade media, at that. The other sources are blogs or references to events where the subject has worked. Doesn't pass WP:GNG. Best Alexandermcnabb (talk) 08:36, 14 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you. it is good to point out that as well as interviews, there are dedicated articles to Davide Lombardi and they are all from independent significant coverage Worldwide, USA, UK, Germany Italy to name the most relevant ones. We can see on Wikipedia similar subjects with less references from similar sources. Fabrizio Di Ninni 1982 (talk) 09:45, 23 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Probably worth to mention his notoriety is acclaimed by being an international award winner from ProsoundNews, while also nominated twice from TPi Awards from TPiMagazine, by MondialeMedia. They are both two of the most prestigious international prizes in audio engineering. Fabrizio Di Ninni 1982 (talk) 10:02, 23 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The J-Gos

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I do not think that this hyperlocal band meets NCREATIVE or GNG. I see one review in a hyperlocal newpaper, and little else of substance. Russ Woodroofe (talk) 10:11, 13 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep. I'm torn on this one. On the one hand, we have many critical reviews in local press (many fromThe Argonaut in San Francisco and Venice Vanguard and Los Angeles Village View in Los Angeles) which arguably meet WP:SIGCOV and criteria 1 of WP:NBAND. On the other hand, the coverage is all to events which could be seen as too local (ie small venues, etc), and we should maybe not consider it significant on that basis. However, there's also the fact that the band randomly did make it on Papua New Guinea's national music chart which would mean it passes criteria 2 of WP:NBAND. In the end this throws it over to the keep side for me.4meter4 (talk) 07:40, 20 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
4meter4, following up belatedly. I tried to verify the claim of charting in Papua New Guinea, and did not succeed. For an otherwise somewhat-implausible-sounding claim like that, it would be good if an established non-SPA editor had succeeded in verifying (although of course sources are not required to be online). Perhaps you found it, or have other thoughts on the matter? Russ Woodroofe (talk) 10:40, 27 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I would suggest asking for comment by someone with access to newspapers.com to check it out, because that paper’s archives are accessible through that site. Unfortunately, newspapers.com is no longer available through the Wikipedia Library. Given that the other sources have checked out added by the same user, I am inclined to AGF, and believe it is likely true and accurately represents the source.4meter4 (talk) 23:05, 27 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Comment: If we could find confirmation of the charted song, that would help, I could go either way, weakly notable, but not enough for me to !vote yet. Oaktree b (talk) 16:38, 27 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Shakir Pichler

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Article contains no reliable sources, has been marked as such for over 4 years. I've looked for sources but have been unable to find anything reliable or reputable, Google News, Newspapers and Books turns up nothing at all. Current text is likely original research, possibly advertising - suspicion they've been written by the person the article is about. Also question the notability. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Halfwaywrong (talk • contribs) 13:12, 12 November 2024

Delete - seems self-promotional, not even 130 results on Google Search. Not much on Google News either, bunch of social media links or brief mentions. starship.paint (talk / cont) 13:24, 12 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Actors and filmmakers, Bands and musicians, and Australia. Skynxnex (talk) 17:15, 12 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Starship.paint. and Halfwaywrong.

I was a bit surprised to see this page nominated for deletion out of the blue after its been online since I think 2007 or so.

There are currently About 1,570 results in google for "Shakir Pichler" in quotes and that's not including the extraneous ones if googled without quotes.

The sources are reliable - IMDB for example but I think it could do with some proper formatting perhaps.

I have edited it from time to time when others have added incorrect data as well as removing old social links like myspace from the days of old :) and this page is also linked on various other wiki pages band line-ups and feature films for example.

It's certainly not being used for 'self promotion' in any way but it is factual of someone who has made a worthy contribution to both Australian music as well as Australian and Hollywood feature films so not sure why it was targeted to be honest.

There are a bunch of other credible links I could provide when I have the time and I should edit the page to make it more up to date at some point.

Anyway, again, it's definitely not 'self promotional' just because I made sure it was factual.

I'd love some help in adding all the proper ref links (film credits) (Band credits) and things to make sure it adheres to any changing wiki regulations.

Thank you. Sexbeatrecords (talk) 01:53, 13 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Sexbeatrecords: - allow me to acquaint you with WP:RSP, where you can see that WP:IMDB is in fact generally unreliable. I suggest you find reliable sources to bolster the article. starship.paint (talk / cont) 11:18, 13 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Hi @Starship.paint. Thanks. Wow, I always thought IMDB was highly ranked but good to know.

Every film credited on this wiki page is verifiable on each feature film's official imdb sub page but interesting to know it's not a reliable link even though some of the titles are big Hollywood movies.

Hopefully there are links to each film's official info separately somewhere although I have no idea where to look. The production companies involved perhaps?

WP:RSP does mention that there are exceptions to the unreliable sources. I would have thought that each film's official IMDB entry would be ok? like for one example "Jasper Jones" and then view all cast and crew to see "Shakir Pichler' listed as action vehicles coordinator. etc https://www.imdb.com/title/tt5091014/ Or still not good?

As I mentioned, I'd love to clean up the formatting of this page to adhere to Wiki's best practice. And how to add and format proper inline links...

Thanks again for your quick reply and advice. Sexbeatrecords (talk) 08:19, 14 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Sexbeatrecords: - actually the main concern here is WP:GNG. To put it in a different way, is Shakir Pichler a notable (prominent/important/distinguished) person? Wikipedia does not seek to write entries for everyone on Earth. If Shakir Pichler is notable, reliable sources will write about him. There will be journal articles, books, newspaper articles, magazine articles. It is up to you to prove that Shakir Pichler is notable by receiving reliable source coverage. starship.paint (talk / cont) 08:26, 14 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
A lot of people seem to think so!

Considering how many Australian bands he has played and recorded/released albums with, released music videos aired on shows like ABC RAGE and interviewed multiple times on radio stations like Triple J & then there is the film industry side - considering how many feature films he has been THE action vehicles coordinator of and in also appearing IN some of these films, he should absolutely have a wiki entry that documents and links with these achievements. Bit surprised this is even in contention tbh.

There are lots of newspaper articles regarding Shakir Pichler in those bands in hard copy that go back to the mid 1980's that are not available online. 157.211.92.236 (talk) 12:30, 14 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
city of sydney library https://library.cityofsydney.nsw.gov.au/Montage/Music.aspx?keyword=shakir+pichler&method=0&sort=1003&refinements= Sexbeatrecords (talk) 12:57, 14 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hi again.

I found 2 pages that speak about Shakir Pichler in The Encyclopedia Of Australian Rock And Pop which is the Oz music Bible for want of a better word.

You are welcome to 'borrow' it for free digitally if you don't have it - the book is mentioned here https://wiki.riteme.site/wiki/Encyclopedia_of_Australian_Rock_and_Pop

You can borrow it here https://openlibrary.org/works/OL2288124W/The_encyclopedia_of_Australian_rock_and_pop

About Shakir Pichler in the kryptonics - page 352

And about Shakir Pichler in The bamboos - page 39

I will keep looking for other links when I have more time. That is a good one. Great book to have too.

Shakir Pichler also mentioned on Whammo encyclopedia in the Bamboos https://web.archive.org/web/20040427212519/http://www.whammo.com.au/encyclopedia.asp?articleid=68

And also in the Kryptonics here https://web.archive.org/web/20040807052007/http://www.whammo.com.au/encyclopedia.asp?articleid=997

These were two VERY important original bands from Perth who toured, released and contributed and pioneered WA's rich musical tapestry of original music nationally and internationally. Sexbeatrecords (talk) 12:52, 14 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

History of Australian music https://historyofaussiemusic.blogspot.com/search?q=kryptonics

Also Nick Sheppard - the guitarist from seminal UK Punk band THE CLASH even mentions Shakir Pichler https://wiki.riteme.site/wiki/Nick_Sheppard Sexbeatrecords (talk) 13:02, 14 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Sexbeatrecords: - the whammo sources (which, I believe, are the exact same as the Encyclopedia of Australian Rock and Pop by Ian McFarlane) do not provide WP:SIGCOV significant coverage, they just mention Pichler very briefly: Kryptonics ... Shakir Pichler (drums) / Bamboos ... In 1986, Shakir Pichler replaced Tony Chiallella on drums ... 1987 ... Russell Hopkinson (ex-Vicious Circle) had replaced Pichler on drums. Blogspot is not a reliable source. Wikipedia is not a reliable source. starship.paint (talk / cont) 14:08, 15 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Hi. An admin Didier Landner very kindly added more references to the page and voted .Keep

There are also hard copy books that mention Shakir Pichler and also a few of his bands.

One is this one https://repressedrecords.com/products/george-matzkov-way-out-west-the-west-australian-pop-rock-blues-music-scene-1960-1979-book-cd which I no longer have for some reason (probably lent it and forgot) .

Also found Shakir's youtube page has a long radio interview with him live on 6UVS-FM (now RTR FM) From Perth 1986! All about the Bamboos and their massive east coast tour which was great to listen to just now! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c5fNppILFGY

I have reached out to a friend who may be able to contact Shakir to see if they can get him to send any links we don't know about that would add to his credits or newspaper clippings etc if that is possible to even use if he has them. Shakir was regularly interviewed in Australian newspapers and radio stations but can't seem to find archives easily to show this.

Either way, he is an important part of Australian music history and in everyones opinion who knew his bands would absolutely agree. Yes Indie music is niche and I understand that your may not have heard of him or his bands but that only makes his contributions to Oz music more important to retain as it wasn't commercial mainstream homogenised music that everyone knows. SO wiki is a great way to learn about the WA and Australian live music scene in general.

I have been a fan of his bands since the 80's and still have all his records on vinyl to this day.

I can't vote but thats my 2c anyway :) 157.211.92.236 (talk) 14:43, 15 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Found a few more via trove. There's too many links to Shakir pichler to sift through though. This will take time.

howlin moondoggies https://webarchive.nla.gov.au/awa/20071126223011/http://pandora.nla.gov.au/pan/44131/20071122-0001/www.amo.org.au/artistedc4.html

The Bamboos paying with Johnny Thunders. https://webarchive.nla.gov.au/awa/20200527150202/http://pandora.nla.gov.au/pan/182658/20200526-1156/australianrockreview.com/2010/11/07/lifting-the-lid-on-the-rockbrat-treasure-chest-johnny-thunders-1986-sydney-gig-adverts/index9657.html

Shakir Pichler mentioned here [26]

About Shakir Pichlers legendary Rosemount Rumble https://webarchive.nla.gov.au/awa/20180318110116/http://rosemounthotel.com.au/event/rosemount-rumble-46/

Shakir photo from 1985 Kryptonics here https://www.forcedexposure.com/Artists/KRYPTONICS.html Sexbeatrecords (talk) 15:27, 15 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Still lacking WP:SIGCOV for the above links. Howlin' MoonDoggies has one (or if you are charitable, two) sentence on Pichler. Bamboos is some sort of an online comment left by Pichler. Rosemount has one sentence on Pichler. Kyptonics has one sentence on Pichler. The photo is just a photo and does not even mention Pichler. starship.paint (talk / cont) 14:22, 23 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Found a digitised newspaper clipping of a big scandal that was reported in quite a few newspapers for some weeks regarding Shakir's scandalous departure from the band 'The Bamboos' mid-tour East coast tour!

From memory, this was big news in the music industry at the time and people still talk about it today. Daily News: Friday October 17th 1986 [27] is one such story. Sexbeatrecords (talk) 22:49, 15 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Allmusic ref Shakir Pichler in the story about how the Kryptonics formed etc. [28] 157.211.92.236 (talk) 10:01, 16 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delicious Design does offer some coverage on Pichler, but it is essentially this: he quit his band without telling them, and they cancelled their tour. That's all. It's not very much. Allmusic just mentions him thrice. It is not WP:SIGCOV. starship.paint (talk / cont) 14:28, 23 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Also note that Delicious Design is Shakir Pichler's own web development business. Halfwaywrong (talk) 08:38, 24 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Australia-related deletion discussions. Sexbeatrecords (talk) 12:17, 16 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep I've add references (McFarlane and Kent) to support subject's membership of two notable bands. Hence, passes Wikipedia:Notability (music)#6 per "is a musician who has been a reasonably prominent member of two or more independently notable ensembles".Didier Landner (talk) 05:40, 15 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Excellent! 157.211.92.236 (talk) 13:12, 15 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Please do not delete!

I am a high school teacher in Perth and Shakir was invited to be a special guest at our Montessori school last year to talk about life in bands and also all the films he worked on and appeared in.

To this day, a year later, the kids all say it was the best day they have had at school!

He showed parts of all the films he worked on as the action vehicles coordinator as well as the parts he also appeared in and then showed us all the music videos of the bands he has played in and then gave a drum performance and some lessons for the kids!

The students have regularly used his Wikipedia page for reference in various home-work and projects since. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 45.118.65.6 (talk) 02:08, 16 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Anyone wants to take a look at the sources added to the article since nomination?
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Vanderwaalforces (talk) 15:38, 19 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comment - @Vanderwaalforces: - I reviewed all the links in the article as of this version. References 1, 2, 3, 5 do not provide WP:SIGCOV. Reference 4 is an offline book but based on Google Books, the book is a Chronological listing of popular recordings ... Provides information on how many times the recording appeared in the charts and the highest position it reached. It is unlikely that it provides SIGCOV either. This link in the article provides one instance of somewhat SIGCOV but only says that Pichler quit his band unannounced in Sydney, and his band cancelled their tour. The Who's who of Australian rock book is an offline resource and I cannot confirm if there is any SIGCOV. starship.paint (talk / cont) 14:44, 23 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Let's not forget Shakir Pichler's own project "The Howlin' MoonDoggies" who are known world-wide and released THREE full length albums released internationally, 2 music videos played on numerous commercial free to air stations In Australia ABC, Foxtel Channel V etc, Numerous Triple J (Band of the week) and uni radio station interviews with him as well, and his songs being included in FIVE international compilation albums (I have so far only found links to 3 but there are more).

OR his film career which is also extensive.

For example, he was THE action vehicles coordinator in Australian film 'Jasper Jones' where he single-handedly sourced and even drove in many scenes, all the cars from the period (1960's) the film was set in, which is a huge achievement in itself, let alone all the other feature films he worked on in the same capacity, like he did for the film "1%" for example as well.

I finally received a big thank you message via social media contact - He would like to thank everyone who has been helping source links and tidy up the wiki page. He is actually a Web Designer and said he wishes he could edit his own page (rather than the fumbling job I have done) but really does appreciate what you all have done over the years :)

Shakir Pichler is a notable identity with massive contributions in both the Music and Film industry - Is this really still up for debate? Seems a bit strange. Sexbeatrecords (talk) 23:59, 23 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

As I was typing the above message I have just been sent a message finally from Shakir via reaching out on his socials.. He also just sent links to some newspaper scans etc which I have now added hopefully in the right place :) Please bear with me if the format isnt perfect and any help would be greatly appreciated so we can make this page good and hopefully put this vote to bed. Much love to the wiki volunteers. Sexbeatrecords (talk) 01:20, 24 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Actually his project 'The Howlin Moondoggies' appeared on SIX international compilations and not 5. I actually have them somewhere in my collection I think, so Ill find the rest of the links when I can.. 157.211.92.236 (talk) 07:13, 24 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

In regards to the Who's Who of Australia Rock source - I've found a physical copy for sale, that shows it appears to be basically a list of the bands, members and discography, which I'd argue is not WP:SIGCOV.

I'd also argue that Pichler's contributions to his bands are better served in the articles of those bands. Halfwaywrong (talk) 08:34, 24 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comment - Looking to the recent links added and they are still not good enough in terms of WP:SIGCOV. One is an undated interview from an unknown publication, apparently of Pichler's former bandmates, who said he quit the band and was beloved by fans before that. Two has a one sentence mention of Pichler, who is said to be part of a band. Three does not even mention Pichler explicitly. Four has a two sentence mention of Pichler and just says that he is new to the band (first time recording with him). Five I have covered before, just says Pichler quit and band ended tour. starship.paint (talk / cont) 08:26, 24 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Put all this together regardless of if you deem the links 'reliable' (it was a long time ago so it's not easy to get new links obviously so even links that at least show the albums etc regardless of where the links live matter as evidence itself- with everything combined including the film work they are strong evidence of WP:SIGCOV

this is looking like a bit of a witch-hunt to me and starting to wonder why he is being targeted when you need only look at the incredibly long list of achievements. Sexbeatrecords (talk) 09:28, 24 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The albums and film work are primary sources and not independent of the subject. We would not count them as reliable sources, so there is no WP:SIGCOV there. starship.paint (talk / cont) 11:37, 24 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
How are they primary sources? They are not self-published either. If they were this page would be about me (Christine) and I am definitely no one. I don't really understand you point here.

Also, despite you saying wikipedia's official film entries are not a reliable source's even though they independently reflect the same credits as imdb but all the films which credit him on imdb or links have been removed - they are not primary sources so its a bit of a lose lose when battling trying to show evidence of WP:SIGCOV! When things keep getting deleted or 'discredited'.

Again I ask, please look at this holistically for the bigger picture.

I can download and screen-shot every movie at the closing credits with Shakir Pichler's name on it if I have to. Or take photos of every album he has played in and bands he has fronted like The Howlin Moondoggies for example. I don't know what other hoops I can possibly jump to appease this pedantic return-fire.

Identifying and using primary sources requires careful thought and some extra knowledge on the part of Wikipedia's editors.

In determining the type of source, there are three separate, basic characteristics to identify:

Is this source self-published or not? (If so, then see Wikipedia:Identifying and using self-published sources.)

Is this source independent or third-party, or is it closely affiliated with the subject? (For this question, see Wikipedia:Independent sources.)

Is this source primary or not?

Every possible combination of these three traits has been seen in sources on Wikipedia. Any combination of these three traits can produce a source that is usable for some purpose in a Wikipedia article. Identifying these characteristics will help you determine how you can use these sources.

there have been countless radio interviews with JUST Shakir that I know of but can't find online other than the one I did find on youtube. And countless one on one interviews in paper and street mags over the years but unfortunately (I checked archives toay for Drum Media Sydney and Inpress Melbourne) dont go back far enough and miss by about 5 years. Sexbeatrecords (talk) 12:22, 24 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
And please remove that 'original research' warning as it really seems unfounded to say the least.

this is getting way beyond ridiculous now. Sexbeatrecords (talk) 12:28, 24 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
WP:PRIMARY: Primary sources are original materials that are close to an event, and are often accounts written by people who are directly involved ... a scientific paper documenting a new experiment conducted by the author is a primary source for the outcome of that experiment. Pichler's albums are no doubt close to him. Pichler's films are no doubt close to him. Credits do not provide SIGCOV. I did not add the original research warning but there is so much unreferenced material in the article. starship.paint (talk / cont) 12:31, 24 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

re 'seems self-promotional' - Shakir isn't promoting anything that I can find online other than his web design which is not linked here and his humanitarian work which is also not linked here - all of the info here is simply factual and historic. 157.211.92.236 (talk) 06:39, 25 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Curious how you are aware of Pichler's humanitarian work. 157.211.92.236, curious how all of your 19 edits so far are all regarding Pichler. Curious how all of the 51 edits of Sexbeatrecords so far are all regarding Pichler, even including a 16-year break from Wikipedia broken by this nomination of this article for deletion. Curious how, at File:Shakir Pichler.jpg, Sexbeatrecords uploaded the image as the "copyright holder" of the "self-made" image whose author is "Shakir Pichler". starship.paint (talk / cont) 14:56, 25 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

What are you even saying? When I met Shakir ONCE, many years ago we were chatting about the 16 Australian band compilation he released on his then record label 'Sexbeat' called "skunk & disorderly" which to this day is one of my favourite albums that had a great review in UK Kerrang magazine that I used to subscribe to when I lived in UK and I asked what his next release will be and his answer was 'never doing that again as it was a huge task' and that he is closing the label down. I then said "I would love to continue it if he is going to throw it away and he surprisingly said "It's yours if you want it!" and gave me permission to have it. Although, ashamedly I have done nothing with it.

I did have some partners who had big plans and we created Shakir's wiki page and were systematically adding all bands on that label at the time but life got in the way.

So I got a notification recently that his wiki page was up for deletion and I was shocked so yes, its probably been 16 years since I made any edits.

When I finally got through to Shakir last week via his socials as we weren't connected at the time so the messages were in 'requests', he was surprised to hear from me and said he hadn't looked at what was on his page in over a decade.

H e thanked me and when I asked if he could help he said he can't edit his own page and he doesn't even have a wiki account but if there's anything I need to just ask and he will try to send whatever when he has time.

The image I uploaded was public from his socials and I don't know what I clicked as far as copyright but its free to use from the horses mouth. Public image.

As for his humanitarian work - its ALL OVER his Instagram! He helps organise anti genocide rallies for Palestine, Lebanon, congo etc and looking at his own web design page deliciousdesign.com.au he also made the not for profit FOPWA.ORG page for free.

SO what I'm curious about is why you seem so determined to remove him. I know some people on the wrong side of history go about things this way intentionally. Not saying you are one of them.

I and many people in WA would be sad to see this page deleted and feel his contributions to both music and film are more than worthy of having a page here.

He again said he wishes he could help me as he is a web designer but doesn't want to touch the page but thankful again to all who are supporting it. That's why my edits are pretty messy, so apologies for that. Hopefully a nice editor will tidy a bit when they have time.

Christine. Sexbeatrecords (talk) 02:22, 26 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep and stubify. Clearly meets criteria 6 of WP:MUSICBIO as the drummer for Kryptonics and The Bamboos; both bands of which are covered in encyclopedias. However, the WP:OR and WP:COI issues need to be addressed. I am going to be WP:BOLD and stubify the article to address those issues.4meter4 (talk) 22:17, 26 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Hi @4meter4, many thanks for helping to clean up the Shakir Pichler page (sincerely appreciate your time! - however, I feel the removal of all the Bands, and releases plus the removal of all the feature films completely detracts the point of providing the most important information about him.

Originally each film had a link to each films (official) IMDB link which credits him.. I was then told imdb is deemed unreliable (but there are exceptions) - The bands and album releases were linked to multiple external music catalogue sites or record label sites.

Unfortunately I'm not a web designer like Shakir is and he won't touch the wiki page so I really need some help getting those 2 category lists back with links that wiki editors will accept.

Just calling out in case you could possibly help in this respect. I'm sure you are busy but wiping out all of that makes the page pretty much 'nothing'.

Happy to remove all the extraneous text info on him though and just list the achievements as I feel they really need to be there.

Some schools have literally used his page for information on the arts but now there is nothing there to reference.

Thanks in advance for any help on this. :)

Christine <3 Sexbeatrecords (talk) 23:00, 26 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@4meter4Perhaps you could restore the bands and releases plus the film credits in a different section that wont be challenged for 'unreliable sources' (Official films IMDB for example) despite them all being 100% factual? Can that be created? Again, many thanks for what I'm sure is your precious time. :) C. Sexbeatrecords (talk) 05:10, 27 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Clearly meets criteria 6 of WP:MUSICBIO - yes, he does. But WP:MUSICBIO also says: Musicians ... may be notable if they meet at least one of the following criteria. "may be notable" is not "is notable". starship.paint (talk / cont) 10:14, 1 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Redirect to The Bamboos (rock band). Whilst he was a member of two notable bands both were relatively short term and first was outside of the Kryptonics main period of note. Main thing of not here would be dogging his band mid tour. Not worth a stand alone article. duffbeerforme (talk) 23:26, 26 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Duffbeerforme "dog act" ? Sounds a bit biased and personal without any of knowledge of the actual situation or reason for such a drastic thing he felt he had to do at that time. Perhaps interview him and find out what really happened that day for him to make such a drastic decision. Do yu know him? I feel you may have anterior motives after that comment.

Sounds like a personal problem you may have with him to me!

Shakir was a FOUNDING MEMEBR of the Kryptonics and in the band when they did their seminal work.. First ever shows, Record deal. 2 Singles and a music video.

He was in the band for 4 years if you read up on it - they were jamming for years before ever playing live.. He started underage with them.

And the other bands like The Howlin Moondoggies which was HIS PROJECT, released THREE studio albums, 2 music videos televised on multiple channels and music shows and appeared on SIX international compilations in USA, UK, JAPAN.. all due to his work and him drumming, writing, producing, promoting and managing his band..

He also played drums in all-star band "The Terraces" with members from Rose Tattoo, One Way System, Horse-UK and The CLASH.

Not to mention all the other bands he has played, toured and recorded with and not to mention the long list of feature films he has worked on as head action vehicles coordinator, stuntman, art department and even appeared in.

Some of which were big Hollywood films ie: Mission Impossible 2( Terrible movie though) and Ghost Rider (slightly less terrible) and some of the best iconic Australian films to date. Jasper Jones for example (Check imdb link)

His page deserves to be here on the merits of what one Western Australian has achieved in the arts alone.

WA is very proud of their arts achievers and he is right up there doing us proud.

Don't be a hater. its unattractive to say the least and doesn't make you look good. Sexbeatrecords (talk) 00:24, 27 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Yes Sexbeat, or should I call you Shakir, "dog act" was a bad call, that's why I changed my comment. Before your reply I see. No-one is buying your claim that you just met him once and subsequently ~~dedicated your life to him~~ spent so much time and effort here for a simple Wikipedia page. Please stop bludgeoning with run of the mill claims. Simply show us some in depth coverage or give it a rest. duffbeerforme (talk) 13:35, 27 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Duffbeerforme She (as disclosed on her talk page) isn't Shakir but is in contact with him through e-mail as disclosed on his talk page. There is a WP:COI relationship but I think her heart is in the right place. Be kind. I 'm trying to coach her on our policies in regards to no original research, sourcing, notability, and encyclopedic tone. There is a big learning curve when you are new to wikipedia. Best.4meter4 (talk) 15:44, 27 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I agree that duffbeerforme's remarks are going a bit too far. The bludgeoning and rambling comments are annoying and unhelful, but there is no reason to belittle another user with comments like subsequently dedicated your life to him. Just Step Sideways ^{from this world ..... today} 04:05, 28 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you so much @4meter4 for you compassion and offer of help teach me if/when you have time... someone banned my sexbeat account on the completely false accusation that I was promoting it. A non existent entity.*there is no sexbeat records label and hasn't been for decades now and I have never posted links to anything that tries to sell anything, or self promote as there is nothing to sell. When I 'took it over' it was just that he said he has finished with it and I said can I use the name and he said sure. simple as that. That was almost 20 years ago and I have only JUST gotten in touch now because of this. he uploaded that pnews clipping but said he deesnt have time to mess around re wiki nor was he very interested in it.

I have just come on here to say, apologies if my responses were annoying or bludgeoning?

Yes, I am not an experienced Wiki editor or very web tech savy tbh other than social media I guess and I honestly thought my "ramblings' were required to try to help explain reasoning behind links and further information I have been frantically digging up regarding Shakir Pichler. I probably annoyed HIM the most.. Hopefully not.

I will no longer comment or edit unless asked a specific question directed at me and I won't edit anything else.

I still hope someone can reverse/rescue the biography section in a concise way of listing his releases of music and contributions to film some time if anyone feels they would like to help.

Thanks again for the editors who HAVE been patient with me and apologies again if I have not understood the correct approach to all this. I guess no one is about to put me up for 'wiki editor' position any time soon LOL

All the best

Christine. ChristineBamtonics (talk) 05:33, 28 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

You the person are blocked, not just your account. CoffeeCrumbs (talk) 15:21, 28 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Owen× ☎ 21:03, 27 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

If you are trying to claim that you are not promoting then perhaps you should not say you were promoting. "I did have some partners who had big plans and we created Shakir's wiki page and were systematically adding all bands on that label at the time but life got in the way." duffbeerforme (talk) 13:30, 28 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Clutching at straws much? That was 20 years ago! none of those bands even exist now! And I didnt do that. 157.211.88.80 (talk) 23:36, 28 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Also, I think you missunderstoond or more likely I didn't explain my reply properly when I said 20 years ago i wanted to systematically add all bands.. I was meaning create their own independent wiki pages.. not a label promotion or any type of ecommerce links to promote sales in ANY way. Merely to try to take over want Shakir had first started in order to try to help the Australian music scene. *I'm not interested in any of that these day and just for the record. and even then, I didn't end up even doing that. ChristineBamtonics (talk) 03:47, 29 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete. The overwhelming and longtime consensus is that IMbD is an unreliable source, especially for living persons. It’s also surprisingly easy to get a page - even my partner of 17 years has one, as do many of my acquaintances. Substantively, everyone in 2024 understands that not everyone gets an article on Wikipedia; anyone who’s literally read three or more articles will see IMDB in the “external links” section, not the reference section. To claim ignorance is unserious. A lot of the sources are questionable. We’re now looking for major radio, television, newspapers, and similar media. I don’t see anything like that here. Bearian (talk) 03:15, 1 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Whilst I agree that IMDB can be unreliable especially with just a user page anyone can add, do you honestly think all the films Shakir has been credited in on their official single IMDB film pages production companies would put up with people adding unreliable names and information to, and that information being there for YEARS? Not for one second!

WIkipedia itself even states that although IMDB is generally regarded as an unreliable source, there ARE exceptions and I'd say official film pages would be a classic example of such an exception.

While it's difficult sourcing information from the 1080's, There have been Newspaper clippings scanned and added here.

There has been major radio (6uvs/RTRfm) interview with Shakir posted here.

I am currently hunting for the Triple-J interviews with him but they don't seen to have archives that go back to early 2000 or late 90's whenever it was.

Of course 'not everyone should have a wiki page!)

But also not everyone has over 15 film credits to their name and I'm not talking about home movies here, I'm talking about big Australian iconic films and big Hollywood feature films too.

And not everyone has played in 10 or so bands and recorded with most of them and had varied success locally and internationally in the alternative music scene. The Bamboos, for example, made it to I think it was number 3 on the USA alternative college charts with one of the recordings he played on called "Snuff" which was also one of their music videos easily searched for with him on drums.

I Wish Shakir still had his website as that had all of the original articles and scans back in the day and I don't want to have to annoy him by messaging him on social media if he can upload them somewhere or if he still has them.

Maybe you could put each of the film's official IMDB pages in the 'external links' area and not in his bio area where it subject to 'selective Wiki scrutiny' was before it was all recently removed?

Shakir is a Perth and East coast alternative music ICON who has also made an impressive mark in the feature film industry. I wouldn't call that an 'anyone can have a page'. situation. 157.211.89.132 (talk) 05:53, 1 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Hey Christine, when you created the Shakir Pichler page, you wrote that Pichler was in a relationship with a person called Christine. Is that you? Seems like too much of a coincidence to not be.

To be clear, again, all anyone is asking for is proof of notability and significant coverage of the person. Simply stating the same things over and over isn't helping, it's WP:BLUDGEONING.

My suggestion to you would be to take the research you've done and the knowledge you have of Pichler and get it published somewhere yourself. Halfwaywrong (talk) 10:42, 1 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Hi, unfortunately not this Christine! I couldn't remember that fact and had to read your history link but it was an interesting early edit to read from an interview back then although too much personal information and waffle content I reckon.

I THINK now from memory being jogged, that Christine was Chrisntina from Germany but pretty hazy memory of that as it was just an incidental segway as to why he moved to Spain.

I only remember he used to be actress Rebekah Elmaloglou's partner for quite a few years (had to look up her spelling). They were often seen dodging paparazi in Sydney and seen on red carpet events together at the time.

As for wp:bludgeoning - does it not work both ways when WIki editors make ridiculous claims or neglect or twist or delete key information or report and block an account for a complete and proven in chat history, lie of 'promoting'?

Which has now happened. Then 'sock puppetry' which wasn't the intention to deceive, as I immediately said this is a new account. And it was an innocent mistake as I didn't realise I couldnt make a new one, and from there I thought the general consensus was ok keep hat one and lose the old one. But then a new editor nuked that one too so Im not making any more accounts but I guess I can at least comment at this point.

The 'you are welcome to join in the AFD discussion - but I guess only if you agree to everything the wiki gods say even if it is abusive, or untrue, or twisted?

Should the challenged editor of an AFD not try to explain any justification of why a page should stay that people who know nothing about the subject matter or person could benefit from knowing?

But wow, what a 'fun' experience this has been.

There have been some incredibly generous helpful editor comments here too thankfully but seriously some are invoking images in my head of the incel comic book guy from the simpsons living in their mothers basements and its tarting to get creeped out.

I would think that someone who has played with members of the Clash, Rose Tattoo, One Way System, You Am I plus his own bands would be unquestionably 'notable' for just those reasons alone.

Maybe I should try stand-up comedy and get my own wiki page.. maybe not. Goodnight. 157.211.89.132 (talk) 14:17, 1 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Brent David Fraser

(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

I have carried out WP:BEFORE and added some references to this previously-unreferenced BLP of an actor. These are passing mentions, however. I do not think he meets WP:NACTOR, WP:ANYBIO or WP:GNG. Tacyarg (talk) 18:01, 11 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: People, Actors and filmmakers, Bands and musicians, and Washington. Tacyarg (talk) 18:01, 11 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Like the nominator, I was unable to find any significant coverage of Fraser, just cast listings and brief mentions in movie reviews. The closest to any biographical information was a Seattle Times movie review that added "Bellingham-raised" to his name (because it's local). (ProQuest 385333344) Not a notable actor at this time. Schazjmd (talk) 18:12, 11 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. Note, often credited as the shorter name Brent Fraser. Satisfies NACTOR with significant roles in Wild Orchid II: Two Shades of Blue (as Brent Fraser, and Dead & Breakfast. (When I am able I will add sourcing that verifies that). Mentions in reviews is an important part of judging actors. They act in things. That's what they are known for. That's the sort of thing that should be in encyclopaedias. Who'd they play and in what. duffbeerforme (talk) 05:36, 12 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Sandstein 20:04, 18 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete per nomination. I’m hoping for the promised citations, but not holding my breath for a week. Bearian (talk) 05:46, 20 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Finally managed to get some sources onto the page. then there is also [29], [30], [31] and [32] (last has a quote from New York Times). duffbeerforme (talk) 07:00, 23 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep with the many added sources on the article and the links to dedicated articles above I think there is enough for a pass of WP:GNG in my view, Atlantic306 (talk) 23:48, 24 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep per WP:HEY. Referencing has significantly improved since the time of nomination. Meets WP:GNG.4meter4 (talk) 11:21, 25 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Kaizenify (talk) 00:23, 26 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep. Since addition of sources, passes WP:GNG. Procyon117 (talk) 14:48, 26 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep The sources provided by duffbeerforme pass WP:GNG. Qetehi (talk) 20:33, 29 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Tararam

(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

Mostly unreferenced topic, with unclear notability. Revirvlkodlaku (talk) 04:54, 9 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: Hebrew Wikipedia article has 27 references. Left guide (talk) 05:46, 9 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Bands and musicians and Israel. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 06:24, 9 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - This is not "mostly unreferenced," , furthermore, it should be noted that notability is not related to the current state of the article. As Left Guide noted, the Hebrew article has plenty of sources. The topic meets the threshold of notability. Whizkin (talk) 06:47, 10 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 08:05, 16 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Doczilla _{Ohhhhhh, no!} 07:29, 23 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete Have you actually seen the Hebrew sources? "SAP Israel concluded a year"??? "SanDisk celebrates Bar Mitzvah"??? Every time they've played at a corporate shindig? Every corporate campaign that uses them? The article about "a unique internet campaign for Cellcom" doesn't even MENTION Tararam? No SIGCOV, no hit record, no chart placement, no major tour, no major media recognition. There's literally nothing here beyond a local ensemble often hired by tech corporates to play at their junkets. Best Alexandermcnabb (talk) 12:23, 23 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Final relist
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 09:31, 30 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

weak delete per Alexandermcnabb. Article is largely unsourced as well as having no real notable event to make them notable enough for a wikipedia article. DarmaniLink (talk) 04:42, 1 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Mattin

(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

I wasn't able to find significant coverage of the subject in reliable sources, and the external links in the article don't help establish notability (as they're either Mattin's website or interviews). Interestingly, the article was created by User:Mattata, whose only mainspace edits involve creating this article. toweli (talk) 17:45, 4 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Bands and musicians, Literature, Music, and Spain. toweli (talk) 17:45, 4 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: There is some coverage in The Wire, albeit paywalled. From the magazine's index, issue 267 (2006) looks to have the most coverage of the subject. More recently, there was a book review a year ago, in issue 476. AllyD (talk) 12:24, 5 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 18:29, 11 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Sandstein 20:05, 18 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Soft keep, I would be inclined to delete normally, due to the probable conflict of interest noted by the nominator, the sources shown by AllyD appear to display notability. -Samoht27 (talk) 21:31, 18 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

~~Delete~~ Keep (thanks to sources found by 4meter4). However, the article does not reflect what is in the sources, and instead has a dopey list of collaborations which do not provide notability. I'll add a small amount but this article needs some serious work. Previously: I did find two books with some content: 1) Audio Culture, Revised Edition: Readings in Modern Music. United States: Bloomsbury Publishing, 2017 - pp. 406-409. 2) Kádár, Dániel Z.. Politeness, Impoliteness and Ritual: Maintaining the Moral Order in Interpersonal Interaction. N.p.: Cambridge University Press, 2017 (one page). ~~I don't think this rises to notability at this time.~~ He did write a chapter in a book but it doesn't seem to be a book that has had an impact. Lamona (talk) 00:30, 20 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. Passes WP:SIGCOV. There is a detailed section on the artist extending from pages 88-97 in Graham, Stephen (2020). Sounds of the Underground: A Cultural, Political and Aesthetic Mapping of Underground and Fringe Music. University of Michigan Press. ISBN 9780472902378. The same author covers the artist in a different and significant way in Graham, Stephen (2023). "Mattin and Burning Star Core/C. Spencer Yeh". Becoming Noise Music: Style, Aesthetics, and History. Bloomsbury Publishing. ISBN 9781501378676. There is also coverage of him in Kim-Cohen, Seth (2016). "No Depth A Call for Shallow Listening". Against Ambience and Other Essays. Bloomsbury Publishing. p. 131, 139-143. ISBN 9781501310348., Bey, Thomas; Bailey, William (2012). "Silence is Sexy: The Other "Extreme" Music". MicroBionic (revised and Expanded 2nd ed.). Belsona Books Limited. ISBN 9780615736624. His work is also engaged with in multiple chapters by different authors in Halligan, Benjamin; Goddard, Michael; Spelman, Nicola, eds. (2013). Resonances: Noise and Contemporary Music. Bloomsbury Publishing. ISBN 9781441146137. There is also coverage/critical engagement of him as a writer on music in these journals [33], [34], [35], [36], [37], This book engages with him as both a musician and music philosopher across many pages. These in addition to the materials presented by Lamona are enough to meet WP:GNG.4meter4 (talk) 11:15, 25 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: one more relist
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, JuniperChill (talk) 21:56, 25 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comment I was able to add a very small amount (one ref) and did some copy editing. The sources, while some are substantial, are very post-modern, a language I do not understand. I hope someone can add more to the article. Lamona (talk) 02:50, 26 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep in view of the multiple reliable sources identified in this discussion by 4Meter4 and Lamona that together show a pass of WP:GNG so that deltion is unnecessary in my view, Atlantic306 (talk) 00:13, 29 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep The article does still need a lot of work to the point where TNTing it is on the table, but I think it would be more constructive to just work with what we have currently DarmaniLink (talk) 09:30, 1 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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