User talk:Zxcvbnm/Archive 3
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Mako
Hi there. Just wondering if you intend to work on an article about the Mako? After seeing your work on the Normandy article, I've thought about doing one as I have access to just over a dozen sources which I believe provide significant coverage about it, but wasn't sure if I should do an article since I've noticed that a number of editors on wikipedia take a hardline stance on articles about standalone fictional topics. Haleth (talk) 07:17, 10 October 2020 (UTC)
- @Haleth: I think it's mostly that fictional topic articles tend to be fancruft added by novice editors who don't know the difference in policies between here and FANDOM, so people blindly press the delete button on habit when on patrol. I have noticed that people are more hardline on fictional locations/objects than characters, but the Normandy is incontrovertibly important, being one of the most famous spacecraft in gaming. I think an article about the Mako might get more pushback from people, especially since most of its notability comes from how janky it is to control rather than its design/conception. I guess it ultimately depends on the content of the sources themselves.ZXCVBNM (TALK) 09:05, 10 October 2020 (UTC)
- @Haleth: Also, if you have sources on the Citadel (space station, not DLC) let me know. I thought it might be notable, and I turned up some things, but not enough to justify a standalone article. ZXCVBNM (TALK) 09:08, 10 October 2020 (UTC)
- I tried to look up Halo's Warthog as that would be the closest analogue to the Mako in terms of its status within its franchise, there was an intact article but it appears to be redirected to a "Factions of Halo" page years ago. There really isn't anything for the Mako to be redirected to at the present time as there's no "Factions of Mass Effect page". But I think there's enough reception info for a standalone page, since the Mako has somehow developed a "so bad it's good" reputation with people who follow the ME franchise.
- I don't believe there's enough info for the Citadel to build a standalone article around. All I am aware of are some design background stuff, and some articles comparing the relationship between the Citadel community to real world aspirations of multiculturalism as far as I know. I definitely have enough for the asari, the Reapers, and a "controversies surrounding Mass Effect" page (with the ME3 ending debacle being the centerpiece of course). I think what we could do, if you are interested, is build a page called Setting of Mass Effect or Mass Effect Universe in draft space. That way, we can group all kinds of miscellaneous information about the various races, Citadel Council, Omega, Cerberus, Systems Alliance...basically topics where each have some isolated bits of reliable information that will not sustain a standalone article, but enough to form a notable overarching topic when combined together. THe difference being of course, this is not some Fandom in-universe stuff. Haleth (talk) 13:07, 10 October 2020 (UTC)
- @Haleth: I'm surprised the Warthog has no article. I think it's arguably a lot more iconic than the Mako, having appeared in every game in the franchise as a major element, as well as related media such as live action series, and could probably merit a standalone article. I might try developing that one. Universe of Mass Effect could certainly work as a list for miscellaneous info.ZXCVBNM (TALK) 14:15, 10 October 2020 (UTC)
- When I recently undid the redirect for 343 Guilty Spark and replaced it with a heavily rewritten version with better sourcing compared to the last revision, I got pushback from no less then 3 editors who were adamant in restoring the redirect (there was never consensus to redirect informally or via AfD in the first place), including one administrator who frequents the Halo articles. So that explains why the Warthog has no article. I had a look at the last version of the Warthog (Halo) article prior to the redirect and it was admittedly very basic. Maybe not enough reliable sources at the time, but it's been over a decade so I am sure a lot of reliable coverage have popped up since then. I'd say that video game journalism on the internet has improved and a lot more peripheral stuff have been better documented compared to the past. I'll notify you when I get a Universe of Mass Effect started. Also, in relation to the Citadel, I found this article which draws a very interesting analogy between the Citadel and the European Union. That should be a start. Haleth (talk) 15:14, 10 October 2020 (UTC)
- @Haleth: I am shocked people think 343 Guilty Spark isn't notable enough for a standalone article. Again, they are probably wrong. I for one support the creation of a 343 Guilty Spark article, and I take a pretty hard line against fancruft. I already went and recreated Warthog (Halo) far less barebones than it was before, although it could use more reception, I still think it easily has enough sources to survive any AfD.ZXCVBNM (TALK) 15:31, 10 October 2020 (UTC)
- You're fast! Anyway, I've quickly added a couple of sources to the article. A brief search certainly brought up a lot of different sources which cover the Warthog in a significant way, but at least one of them should rebut the no "real world notability" allegation. Haleth (talk) 16:17, 10 October 2020 (UTC)
- @Haleth: Thanks 😅 Given that some official real-world Warthogs were built, the "no real-world notability" argument should be moot with that article.ZXCVBNM (TALK) 16:34, 10 October 2020 (UTC)
- @Haleth: Currently I am still somewhat dissatisfied with the reception for the Warthog. It's a bit surprising that all that could be found were negative opinions of the Warthog. From my own, obviously original research, experience with Halo, I enjoyed the Warthog, and they seem a bit nitpicky to put first, although the AI driver part isn't wrong. For now I changed it slightly to put a bit less weight on the more vocal but not necessarily more pertinent critiques.ZXCVBNM (TALK) 20:13, 11 October 2020 (UTC)
- @Zxcvbnm: This reflects what we could find right away with the custom search engine (which is far from infallible as I still manage to pick up a lot of reliable or relevant sources that it missed, some of the editors here place too much stock on its capabilities to establish notability) so far, at least the ones that dedicate an entire article to the Warthog which tend to be retrospective in scope and "recentist" in opinion. For a more holistic picture, we'll need to comb through old reviews of all of the Halo games to date which mention their opinions of the Warthog in passing. That would...take a while (the Halo franchise is nearly 19 years old at the time of writing!). At least critic reviews for the Mako and its successor only spans two games so its less broad in scope. Haleth (talk) 00:56, 12 October 2020 (UTC)
- @Haleth: Yeah, the custom search engine is only of partial usefulness. When going outside of it I've found plenty of articles that can be used. It's okay for quickly filtering out the junk but not for deep dives into sources.ZXCVBNM (TALK) 06:58, 19 October 2020 (UTC)
- @Zxcvbnm: This reflects what we could find right away with the custom search engine (which is far from infallible as I still manage to pick up a lot of reliable or relevant sources that it missed, some of the editors here place too much stock on its capabilities to establish notability) so far, at least the ones that dedicate an entire article to the Warthog which tend to be retrospective in scope and "recentist" in opinion. For a more holistic picture, we'll need to comb through old reviews of all of the Halo games to date which mention their opinions of the Warthog in passing. That would...take a while (the Halo franchise is nearly 19 years old at the time of writing!). At least critic reviews for the Mako and its successor only spans two games so its less broad in scope. Haleth (talk) 00:56, 12 October 2020 (UTC)
- @Haleth: Currently I am still somewhat dissatisfied with the reception for the Warthog. It's a bit surprising that all that could be found were negative opinions of the Warthog. From my own, obviously original research, experience with Halo, I enjoyed the Warthog, and they seem a bit nitpicky to put first, although the AI driver part isn't wrong. For now I changed it slightly to put a bit less weight on the more vocal but not necessarily more pertinent critiques.ZXCVBNM (TALK) 20:13, 11 October 2020 (UTC)
- @Haleth: Thanks 😅 Given that some official real-world Warthogs were built, the "no real-world notability" argument should be moot with that article.ZXCVBNM (TALK) 16:34, 10 October 2020 (UTC)
- You're fast! Anyway, I've quickly added a couple of sources to the article. A brief search certainly brought up a lot of different sources which cover the Warthog in a significant way, but at least one of them should rebut the no "real world notability" allegation. Haleth (talk) 16:17, 10 October 2020 (UTC)
- @Haleth: I am shocked people think 343 Guilty Spark isn't notable enough for a standalone article. Again, they are probably wrong. I for one support the creation of a 343 Guilty Spark article, and I take a pretty hard line against fancruft. I already went and recreated Warthog (Halo) far less barebones than it was before, although it could use more reception, I still think it easily has enough sources to survive any AfD.ZXCVBNM (TALK) 15:31, 10 October 2020 (UTC)
- When I recently undid the redirect for 343 Guilty Spark and replaced it with a heavily rewritten version with better sourcing compared to the last revision, I got pushback from no less then 3 editors who were adamant in restoring the redirect (there was never consensus to redirect informally or via AfD in the first place), including one administrator who frequents the Halo articles. So that explains why the Warthog has no article. I had a look at the last version of the Warthog (Halo) article prior to the redirect and it was admittedly very basic. Maybe not enough reliable sources at the time, but it's been over a decade so I am sure a lot of reliable coverage have popped up since then. I'd say that video game journalism on the internet has improved and a lot more peripheral stuff have been better documented compared to the past. I'll notify you when I get a Universe of Mass Effect started. Also, in relation to the Citadel, I found this article which draws a very interesting analogy between the Citadel and the European Union. That should be a start. Haleth (talk) 15:14, 10 October 2020 (UTC)
- @Haleth: I'm surprised the Warthog has no article. I think it's arguably a lot more iconic than the Mako, having appeared in every game in the franchise as a major element, as well as related media such as live action series, and could probably merit a standalone article. I might try developing that one. Universe of Mass Effect could certainly work as a list for miscellaneous info.ZXCVBNM (TALK) 14:15, 10 October 2020 (UTC)
- I don't believe there's enough info for the Citadel to build a standalone article around. All I am aware of are some design background stuff, and some articles comparing the relationship between the Citadel community to real world aspirations of multiculturalism as far as I know. I definitely have enough for the asari, the Reapers, and a "controversies surrounding Mass Effect" page (with the ME3 ending debacle being the centerpiece of course). I think what we could do, if you are interested, is build a page called Setting of Mass Effect or Mass Effect Universe in draft space. That way, we can group all kinds of miscellaneous information about the various races, Citadel Council, Omega, Cerberus, Systems Alliance...basically topics where each have some isolated bits of reliable information that will not sustain a standalone article, but enough to form a notable overarching topic when combined together. THe difference being of course, this is not some Fandom in-universe stuff. Haleth (talk) 13:07, 10 October 2020 (UTC)
Nobel Team/Spartan character article
Hi. Just thought I'd ask you for a second opinion on the viability of a standalone article for Noble Team from Halo Reach. Another user created a draft article for it (albeit mispelled) and posted it on the Halo Wikiproject page a few months ago. I decided to do a search and see if I could find anything worthwhile to sate my curiosity. I've copy pasted the sources under the references section; it looks to me that reviewers in several reliable sources did talk about how the story and characters made them feel, but I am not sure whether that constitutes enough significant coverage to meet GNG. Note that the current iteration of the Characters of Halo article page does not cover anything about Noble Team at all, though there are a number of Spartan characters.
In the alternative, do you think it's better if a broad Spartan (Halo) article is created instead which incorporates whatever notable coverage for Noble Team as a component, along with coverage of other Spartan characters from Halo 5 and the spin-offs? The general public does associate the Spartan look with Master Chief for a long time, but by 2020 we have several Halo media which do not have Master Chief front and centre, and from what I've read I believe it is arguable that the Spartans as a group of characters are an entrenched part of popular culture by now as distinct from just Master Chief. Haleth (talk) 05:02, 19 October 2020 (UTC)
- @Haleth: I totally agree that Spartan (Halo) would probably be notable. Of course, the information that page was created with is just copy-pasted, possibly copyvio dreck so you'd have to start from scratch. But stuff like Noble Team could then be integrated into that article.ZXCVBNM (TALK) 06:48, 19 October 2020 (UTC)
The article Smart Pistol has been proposed for deletion because of the following concern:
I really don't think mentions in a couple of overall game reviews + a couple of blurbs in questionably RS industry publications support WP:N here
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Nomination of Smart Pistol for deletion
A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Smart Pistol is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.
The article will be discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Smart Pistol until a consensus is reached, and anyone, including you, is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.
Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion notice from the top of the article. –Roscelese (talk ⋅ contribs) 03:23, 27 October 2020 (UTC)
Vivian (Paper Mario), an article that you or your project may be interested in, has been nominated for a community good article reassessment. If you are interested in the discussion, please participate by adding your comments to the reassessment page. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, the good article status may be removed from the article. Le Panini (Talk tome?) 15:18, 27 October 2020 (UTC)
Your GA nomination of The Silent Cartographer
Hi there, I'm pleased to inform you that I've begun reviewing the article The Silent Cartographer you nominated for GA-status according to the criteria. 
This process may take up to 7 days. Feel free to contact me with any questions or comments you might have during this period. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of IceWelder -- IceWelder (talk) 20:42, 2 November 2020 (UTC)
Your GA nomination of The Silent Cartographer
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Your GA nomination of The Silent Cartographer
The article The Silent Cartographer you nominated as a good article has passed 
; see Talk:The Silent Cartographer for comments about the article. Well done! If the article has not already appeared on the main page as a "Did you know" item, or as a bold link under "In the News" or in the "On This Day" prose section, you can nominate it within the next seven days to appear in DYK. Bolded names with dates listed at the bottom of the "On This Day" column do not affect DYK eligibility. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of IceWelder -- IceWelder (talk) 21:41, 2 November 2020 (UTC)
I've noticed that you've been on a roll creating or recreating some Fallout universe articles. Earlier this year, The Millionth One who used to be much more active around here shared their collection of sources with me, which I've put to good use for a lot of the Mass Effect/Dragon Age character articles. There is one section for Nick Valentine, which I noticed may have enough coverage to sustain a viable article, but I never made the attempt as I am not particularly knowledgeable about the Fallout franchise, particularly after Bethesda took over. I thought you might be interested, and this would save you time if you are. Haleth (talk) 20:24, 30 October 2020 (UTC)
- @Haleth: I might be interested, but despite having beaten Fallout 3 (despite the game doing its darndest not to function), I never finished Fallout 4. I bought it pretty close to release, but drifted away at some point. In the interest of avoiding spoilers, I don't want to read up on his backstory. Researching the articles has made me more interested in it again, though, so I will probably attempt another playthrough at some point. If I manage to finish it, I might follow up and create the article.ZXCVBNM (TALK) 20:32, 30 October 2020 (UTC)
- @Haleth: That "Endings of Mass Effect 3" looks really fun to finish, though, but I feel like it will get the same reaction as when I tried to make Criticism of Dark Souls II. They were almost universally panned, so the article would probably turn out to be a POV fork with nothing but nitpicking how bad they are.ZXCVBNM (TALK) 20:39, 30 October 2020 (UTC)
- @Haleth: Also, Codsworth is almost certainly notable enough for an article, too.ZXCVBNM (TALK) 20:56, 30 October 2020 (UTC)
- @Haleth: That "Endings of Mass Effect 3" looks really fun to finish, though, but I feel like it will get the same reaction as when I tried to make Criticism of Dark Souls II. They were almost universally panned, so the article would probably turn out to be a POV fork with nothing but nitpicking how bad they are.ZXCVBNM (TALK) 20:39, 30 October 2020 (UTC)
- Yup. As mentioned before, I am actually thinking about a Controversies surrounding Mass Effect article, which spans the entire franchise besides the infamous ending, from Fox News/alien side boob, Jessica Chobot's involvement, From Ashes Day One DLC, mistaken identity for Sandy Hook shooter, fan video for Trump 2016 campaign, and Andromeda's tragic turn into a meme. I think that will get less complaints about WP:CONTENTFORK due to its broad coverage, as not all of it is EA or BioWare's doing. Just to catalogue instances which demonstrate for whatever reason, the Mass Effect series seems like a lightning rod for controversy and triggered people.
- Re: Fallout 3, I remember that I barely made it past one hour back in the day. Buggy on PC and just too jarring compared to my experiences with the first two games, so I gave up. The irony is that I now have Fallout 4 on console but didn't have free time until very recently; now I am curious to try but can't access it as I can't make it back to my own home in another country, so I am trying to avoid spoilers too. Haleth (talk) 21:06, 30 October 2020 (UTC)
- @Haleth: Being a Mass Effect fan, you'll probably enjoy Fallout 4. I think the game was clearly inspired by it, and turned the straightforward text choices from 3 into a fully voiced dialog wheel, though the main character is definitely not as iconic as Shepard. The gameplay also saw a fairly large improvement. I'm not exactly quite sure why I stopped playing, I guess sometimes I just get overwhelmed in Bethesda games or something.ZXCVBNM (TALK) 22:23, 30 October 2020 (UTC)
- @Zxcvbnm: Actually, traditional RPG games without a voiced protagonist and dialogue wheel was my jam growing up, amongst other stuff. But I don't mind the cinematic style BioWare and a few other companies have adopted in recent years. Congratulations on getting GA for Silent Cartographer by the way. I am thinking of nominating my first GA article...after 14 years on wikipedia. I looked up the article for the first KOTOR game and I am very surprised that no one's tried to get it up to GA status, considering KOTOR 2 has GA status. So I think I'll attempt it since it is considered a seminal work in video games, and I've got this book which is entirely focused on developmental info and behind the scenes stuff for the game. How does the process work? Do I simply make my preparations, then make some bold edits, nominate the article for GA+ and see who comes along? Haleth (talk) 07:33, 4 November 2020 (UTC)
- @Haleth: I think you have plenty of articles that are ready to become GA and you may not even need to do any additional edits. You just have to nominate it when you think the article is up to snuff and wait for it to be picked up by someone, and be ready to do the suggested edits to improve the article. With the one caveat that quid pro quos are encouraged (but not required).ZXCVBNM (TALK) 15:39, 4 November 2020 (UTC)
- @Zxcvbnm: Actually, traditional RPG games without a voiced protagonist and dialogue wheel was my jam growing up, amongst other stuff. But I don't mind the cinematic style BioWare and a few other companies have adopted in recent years. Congratulations on getting GA for Silent Cartographer by the way. I am thinking of nominating my first GA article...after 14 years on wikipedia. I looked up the article for the first KOTOR game and I am very surprised that no one's tried to get it up to GA status, considering KOTOR 2 has GA status. So I think I'll attempt it since it is considered a seminal work in video games, and I've got this book which is entirely focused on developmental info and behind the scenes stuff for the game. How does the process work? Do I simply make my preparations, then make some bold edits, nominate the article for GA+ and see who comes along? Haleth (talk) 07:33, 4 November 2020 (UTC)
- @Haleth: Being a Mass Effect fan, you'll probably enjoy Fallout 4. I think the game was clearly inspired by it, and turned the straightforward text choices from 3 into a fully voiced dialog wheel, though the main character is definitely not as iconic as Shepard. The gameplay also saw a fairly large improvement. I'm not exactly quite sure why I stopped playing, I guess sometimes I just get overwhelmed in Bethesda games or something.ZXCVBNM (TALK) 22:23, 30 October 2020 (UTC)
- Re: Fallout 3, I remember that I barely made it past one hour back in the day. Buggy on PC and just too jarring compared to my experiences with the first two games, so I gave up. The irony is that I now have Fallout 4 on console but didn't have free time until very recently; now I am curious to try but can't access it as I can't make it back to my own home in another country, so I am trying to avoid spoilers too. Haleth (talk) 21:06, 30 October 2020 (UTC)
Disambiguation link notification for November 6
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I started a merger you may be interested in. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 01:33, 8 November 2020 (UTC)
Are you planning to accept Draft:Pokémon Home, and is that why you tagged the redirect for G6? If so, I agree, but I want to verify that that is your intention. Robert McClenon (talk) 15:47, 12 November 2020 (UTC)
- @Robert McClenon: That is correct.ZXCVBNM (TALK) 20:44, 12 November 2020 (UTC)
- Zxcvbnm, Robert McClenon, I've resubmitted G6 that got cancelled. AngusW🐶🐶F (bark • sniff) 20:48, 16 November 2020 (UTC)
Fire Emblem
Do you think byleth or chrom can be notable to have their own article?.— Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.254.234.167 (talk • contribs)
- @89.254.234.167: Byleth is definitely notable enough, however Chrom already went through an attempted AfC and it doesn't appear he is notable enough.ZXCVBNM (TALK) 04:35, 13 November 2020 (UTC)
- Ow I see, cuz when you searched on google byleth, it will frequently came out on knowledge panel as Beleth. 89.254.234.167 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 04:38, 13 November 2020 (UTC)
- @89.254.234.167: Try using the WP:VG Custom Search Engine. Here are just some articles that show Byleth is notable:
- Looking Back on Fire Emblem's Player Avatars (And Why Three Houses' Byleth May Be the Worst)
- Byleth Is Refreshingly Simple In Super Smash Bros. Ultimate
- Fire Emblem’s Byleth Is A Great Example Of A Nonbinary Video Game Character
- Byleth: What's Really Going On Behind the Anger Around Super Smash Bros' Newest Character
- ZXCVBNM (TALK) 04:43, 13 November 2020 (UTC)
- Actually, I've found several sources about Chrom, mostly from Kotaku and Destructoid for reception, an interview with the character's English VA Matthew Mercer, and even some surprising comments from the developers of Fire Emblem Heroes about how he is the design foundation for every character in the game. So I'll update the existing article in draft space accordingly (agree with you that it's in very rough condition with the existing sourcing), and you can check it when I resubmit. I am personally a very casual Fire Emblem player and only picked up one game (Awakening) very recently, but besides the characters who have previously crossed over into the Smash series and became famous for it, I would say he is easily the most recognizable Fire Emblem character due to Awakening's success. Haleth (talk) 10:35, 13 November 2020 (UTC)
- @Haleth: I'd happily approve the article if it showed notability. I'm a pretty big fan of Fire Emblem, as you can probably tell. I'm not sure about Chrom being the best-known non-Smash character; the house leaders in Three Houses got pretty heavy publicity in a short time, and I wouldn't be surprised if they surpassed anyone from previous titles.ZXCVBNM (TALK) 10:53, 13 November 2020 (UTC)
- @Zxcvbnm: I should rephrase that. What I was trying to say was that prior to his introduction into Smash in 2018, Chrom was probably the best known Fire Emblem character who wasn't already in Smash. It is remarkable how much of a game changer Awakening was for the series, which was apparently dead in the water before experiencing an unprecedented surge to mainstream popularity which began from Awakening's success. Anyway, we are now nearing the end of 2020, and Three Houses has already been out for over a year. I've done up the existing draft article for Chrom and I think I've added over 20 additional citations, mostly from Kotaku and Destructoid, and I'm confident that the current draft easily passes GNG. I am unsure about submitting it though, since I wasn't the one who prepared the initial draft and I don't really want to step on another editor's toes. Don't think I can contribute much else to the series' articles on wikipedia since I am quite new to the series and trying to avoid spoilers. Haleth (talk) 17:11, 13 November 2020 (UTC)
- @Haleth: There's nothing wrong with submitting it if you think it's good enough. Right now I still think it's somewhat borderline with regards to notability. There's a lot of passing mentions of Chrom but much of it is just that - a passing mention. For example, this article doesn't really feel like it's about Chrom, but Awakening itself. The character guide cited has every character, so it doesn't really evidence Chrom being special over the other characters. There's obviously a major amount of effort put into it but I'm just telling it like I see it. I'm not really sure if I would approve it still.ZXCVBNM (TALK) 23:04, 13 November 2020 (UTC)
- @Zxcvbnm: As per the guidelines under WP:GNG, significant coverage is more than a trivial mention, but it does not need to be the main topic of the source material. As an example, the IGN article you brought up earlier in a discussion with an IP user about Byleth's backlash for Smash is not really a critical analysis about Byleth, even though the title seem to suggest so, but at its core about fan relationship with Nintendo and the Smash series. For someone who has zero knowledge about Three Houses (and not a bad thing since I try to avoid spoilers), I don't really learn anything about who Byleth is from the article other then being another sword-wielding FE character. That doesn't mean I'd discount the source itself as a form of trivial or passing mention since it's quite clear that the character has generated a reaction, not unlike the popularity poll or the fan labor ones.
- @Haleth: There's nothing wrong with submitting it if you think it's good enough. Right now I still think it's somewhat borderline with regards to notability. There's a lot of passing mentions of Chrom but much of it is just that - a passing mention. For example, this article doesn't really feel like it's about Chrom, but Awakening itself. The character guide cited has every character, so it doesn't really evidence Chrom being special over the other characters. There's obviously a major amount of effort put into it but I'm just telling it like I see it. I'm not really sure if I would approve it still.ZXCVBNM (TALK) 23:04, 13 November 2020 (UTC)
- @Zxcvbnm: I should rephrase that. What I was trying to say was that prior to his introduction into Smash in 2018, Chrom was probably the best known Fire Emblem character who wasn't already in Smash. It is remarkable how much of a game changer Awakening was for the series, which was apparently dead in the water before experiencing an unprecedented surge to mainstream popularity which began from Awakening's success. Anyway, we are now nearing the end of 2020, and Three Houses has already been out for over a year. I've done up the existing draft article for Chrom and I think I've added over 20 additional citations, mostly from Kotaku and Destructoid, and I'm confident that the current draft easily passes GNG. I am unsure about submitting it though, since I wasn't the one who prepared the initial draft and I don't really want to step on another editor's toes. Don't think I can contribute much else to the series' articles on wikipedia since I am quite new to the series and trying to avoid spoilers. Haleth (talk) 17:11, 13 November 2020 (UTC)
- @Haleth: I'd happily approve the article if it showed notability. I'm a pretty big fan of Fire Emblem, as you can probably tell. I'm not sure about Chrom being the best-known non-Smash character; the house leaders in Three Houses got pretty heavy publicity in a short time, and I wouldn't be surprised if they surpassed anyone from previous titles.ZXCVBNM (TALK) 10:53, 13 November 2020 (UTC)
- Actually, I've found several sources about Chrom, mostly from Kotaku and Destructoid for reception, an interview with the character's English VA Matthew Mercer, and even some surprising comments from the developers of Fire Emblem Heroes about how he is the design foundation for every character in the game. So I'll update the existing article in draft space accordingly (agree with you that it's in very rough condition with the existing sourcing), and you can check it when I resubmit. I am personally a very casual Fire Emblem player and only picked up one game (Awakening) very recently, but besides the characters who have previously crossed over into the Smash series and became famous for it, I would say he is easily the most recognizable Fire Emblem character due to Awakening's success. Haleth (talk) 10:35, 13 November 2020 (UTC)
- @89.254.234.167: Try using the WP:VG Custom Search Engine. Here are just some articles that show Byleth is notable:
- Ow I see, cuz when you searched on google byleth, it will frequently came out on knowledge panel as Beleth. 89.254.234.167 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 04:38, 13 November 2020 (UTC)
- Most of the articles I've introduced are not trivial one sentence mentions; with the Kotaku article, the author broadly analyzed Chrom's role in the narrative along with Lucina's without retreading the plot in minute detail, and she established right away that the narrative revolves around him. It's not the dominating topic, but certainly not a trivial or passing mention which consists of single sentences. I agree with the Gamesradar article, but it was already there, I simply refined it and used it for its opinion only, not to demonstrate notability. As per WP: Consensus in previous AfD's I've seen but did not contribute, trivial or passing mentions are generally agreed to be single sentence ones. Explanatory material under WP:Basic, which is not specific to any particular topic, also suggests that multiple independent sources may be combined to demonstrate notability if the depth of coverage in any given source is not substantial by itself. Arguments have been successfully made based on this guideline in some AfD's abotu fictional characters where multiple sources with smaller but not trivial mentions, when stacked together build towards a demonstration of significant coverage. Haleth (talk) 00:12, 14 November 2020 (UTC)
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There is currently a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you. Jhenderson 777 18:56, 28 November 2020 (UTC)
- P.S. I am sure it’s not what you think. I came in to your defense about it. Though to be fair for poor Haleth's sake I had to mention it. I welcome your thoughts either way. Jhenderson 777 18:56, 28 November 2020 (UTC)
Nomination of Yharnam for deletion
A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Yharnam is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.
The article will be discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Yharnam until a consensus is reached, and anyone, including you, is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.
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Hi there, I'm pleased to inform you that I've begun reviewing the article Klobb you nominated for GA-status according to the criteria. This process may take up to 7 days. Feel free to contact me with any questions or comments you might have during this period. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of Le Panini -- Le Panini (talk) 15:21, 11 December 2020 (UTC)
The article Klobb you nominated as a good article has been placed on hold . The article is close to meeting the good article criteria, but there are some minor changes or clarifications needing to be addressed. If these are fixed within 7 days, the article will pass; otherwise it may fail. See Talk:Klobb for issues which need to be addressed. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of Le Panini -- Le Panini (talk) 21:01, 12 December 2020 (UTC)
Regarding "Most XYZ are not notable"
Re this:
Thanks for showing me how this can be off-putting in a bad way. It's intentionally meant to "discourage," but the intent is more along the lines of "it's not you, the editor, it really is the topic, your volunteer efforts would be more appreciated focusing on the relatively few topics within XYZ that do meet Wikipedia's notability guidelines."
I'm open to suggestions on how to get that point across with less harshness. davidwr/(talk)/(contribs) 🎄 14:38, 14 December 2020 (UTC)
- @Davidwr: It may be somewhat true that most games are not notable, when you include every piece of shovelware, asset flip dreck out there. But in terms of the games that people want to make articles about, I disagree that most would not be notable. The proportion of non-notable game articles is a lot smaller. I would probably just not mention that at all. A reminder that new articles must meet the GNG is good enough. There is a constant stream of new editors who don't know what notability even means so WP:AGF applies. Some of those editors just want to make their article and leave but others can potentially learn what notability is.ZXCVBNM (TALK) 16:45, 14 December 2020 (UTC)
SMAUG redirect
Hi Zxcvbnm. The redirect you modified was correct, because is an acronym. Please revert it, and use this template. Thank you. --Thoric (talk) 16:43, 21 December 2020 (UTC)
- @Thoric: I modified it because, since it's not notable enough for a page and only get a sentence mention in another article, it's not obvious that the majority of people who type it in all caps will be looking for the video game. I though the disambiguation page was a good compromise that also explains what the video game is.ZXCVBNM (TALK) 18:06, 21 December 2020 (UTC)
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Please see
Please see Talk:Child Protective Services#Requested move 30 December 2020. ─ The Aafī (talk) 07:57, 30 December 2020 (UTC)
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The article Klobb you nominated as a good article has passed ; see Talk:Klobb for comments about the article. Well done! If the article has not already appeared on the main page as a "Did you know" item, or as a bold link under "In the News" or in the "On This Day" prose section, you can nominate it within the next seven days to appear in DYK. Bolded names with dates listed at the bottom of the "On This Day" column do not affect DYK eligibility. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of Le Panini -- Le Panini (talk) 07:41, 22 December 2020 (UTC)
Your submission at Articles for creation: Blaster Master Zero 2 has been accepted
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2pou (talk) 20:42, 12 January 2021 (UTC)Reliable sources
Hi Zxcvbnm, thank you for your last review of Draft:World War II: TCG
We resubmitted our game a few days ago, adding more reliable sources. Our only concern though is regarding your last comment:
Fails WP:GNG; lacks a reception section or reliable sources, and only one review was found in English from a reliable game journalism source. Unless there are more significant sources in other languages, this doesn't seem like it will pass notability guidelines
In our case, we are a small videogame studio located in Spain and the sources we have been mentioned into or that have talked about us are quite reliable in our country to be honest. We have not much coverage on international press/sources but we do on Spain. Also, the Wikipedia:Notability page specifically says:
There is no fixed number of sources required since sources vary in quality and depth of coverage, but multiple sources are generally expected.[3] Sources do not have to be available online or written in English
Hoping you reconsider your review, Respectfully, Cgascons (talk) 16:18, 28 December 2020 (UTC)
- @Cgascons:I probably phrased that slightly wrong, what I meant was that it lacks reviews (e.g. significant mentions) from reliable sources. Mere announcements do not indicate any sort of independent critical analysis. Per WP:INDISCRIMINATE, Wikipedia treats creative works in an encyclopedic manner, discussing the development, design, reception, significance, and influence of works. This cannot be gained from simply press releases and descriptions of the game and must include reviews that at least demonstrate the game's reception and influence, which are largely not seen here.ZXCVBNM (TALK) 20:55, 28 December 2020 (UTC)
- @Zxcvbnm:Hi again, after asking for some help in the Kiwi IRC chat I reviewed the article, removed the unencyclopedic terms that were being used, and added a Reception section with 3 reviews of the game (in english). Hoping you reconsider reviewing the article again, kind regards. Cgascons (talk) 11:16, 26 January 2021 (UTC)
Draft
you can lend a hand on Draft:Byleth (Fire Emblem) if you wanted to. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 14.192.213.150 (talk) 01:37, 29 January 2021 (UTC)
Draft: ARIDA: Backlands Awakening
I will ask to delete the article Draft:ARIDA: Backland's Awakening and recreate it from scratch. Best regards. ✍A.WagnerC (talk) 14:57, 3 February 2021 (UTC)
- No... I will submit again. I will change somethings. ✍A.WagnerC (talk) 15:07, 3 February 2021 (UTC)
Hello. I add sources with coverage in Draft:ARIDA: Backland's Awakening. I would like to request a reconsideration. I intend to expand the content from the material I found. But I would feel more comfortable doing this after the article is approved. The sources are in Portuguese because the game is Brazilian, but I believe that there is no problem. Best regards ✍A.WagnerC (talk) 16:13, 3 February 2021 (UTC)
Cancel submission
Hello. I would like to cancel Draft:ARIDA: Backland's Awakening submission, if possible. The author agreed to the deletion. It will be rewritten. Best regards. ✍A.WagnerC (talk) 15:24, 10 February 2021 (UTC)
European Speedrunner Assembly
I'm confused why you wanted the redirect at European Speedrunner Assembly deleted, because the draft at Draft:European Speedrunner Assembly hasn't been accepted and has a lot of serious issues. Are you an AfC reviewer? Fences&Windows 01:30, 15 February 2021 (UTC)
- @Fences and windows:I was about to accept the draft. I don't have page deletion privileges, as I am not an admin. I won't say it's a fantastic article, but in my opinion, per WP:NEXIST and WP:NORUSH, it can always be improved later in article space rather than forcing it to remain as a draft, as long as it's acceptable.ZXCVBNM (TALK) 03:22, 15 February 2021 (UTC)
- I suggest you complete your AfC reviews before you request a move if admin help is needed so the status is clear. Please also check for other comments and discussions before proceeding, because User:Hatchens had commented "Completely confused. This draft needs an expert's review" and User:CiphriusKane was in the middle of discussing concerns with the creator at User talk:Forscha#Draft:European Speedrunner Assembly.
- I don't think the draft was neutrally written, which is a reason to decline, and the coverage in the gaming press I could find consisted of reheated press releases, so I am genuinely unsure that notability does exist. It may do, but it needs better evidence - asserting sufficient sources exist doesn't satisfy NEXIST.
- Though I am not an AfC regular, I'm aware of the criteria and the risk of demanding perfection from drafts - I just don't think that particular draft was ready and I feel the draft's creator could do with some assistance before it's approved. CiphriusKane is already on the case and with your help it may well be acceptable shortly. Fences&Windows 11:50, 15 February 2021 (UTC)
Wikiproject Video games Newsletter survey
Hello Zxcvbnm! I'm conducting a feature for the video games newsletter similar to that of a survey. I'm going to ask users their opinions on a specific matter and highlight unique and common answers to determine consensus on a subject. Your input would be very valuable, alongside others, to help answer this question.
The question is: How do you determine what makes a video game character notable enough for their own page? Do you follow pre-existing guidelines or have your own opinions on the matter?
Panini🥪 10:47, 16 February 2021 (UTC)
- @Panini!: I basically just follow GNG like regular articles. The character should have sufficient reliable sources specifically talking about them (as opposed to just passing mentions in reviews).ZXCVBNM (TALK) 05:47, 20 February 2021 (UTC)
Rayman bowling https://wiki.riteme.site/wiki/Draft:Rayman_Bowlling
Hi there, I'm new in Wikipedia. I liked to improve my skills in writing articles. I had issues before with notability. I would appreciate some direct advises, (not guidelines), about this subject. I think this article was little too. Please let me know what do you think. Was small enough to think it is not notable? or just have few sources?--Javier Alejandro Herrera Carvajal (talk) 17:39, 19 February 2021 (UTC)
- @Javier Alejandro Herrera Carvajal: It was the amount of sources that is the problem. There are too few to meet the WP:GNG policy that states when a topic should have its own article. It's not notable enough for a standalone article, but I have no prejudice against the information being included in the main series article as its existence can be confirmed by sources, much like the other Rayman article you did earlier that got redirected.ZXCVBNM (TALK) 08:18, 20 February 2021 (UTC)
What do you need ? (Draft:Axolot Games)
Godd Afternoon ! If Official Sites, Profiles aren't enough for you so what do you need ? : NewsPapers Articles, CEO's Interview, Youtube Channel, Steam Games Page,...., Company Statement Sheet !? I've even run into Companies Wikipedia Article that aren less documented than that !
- @ACI99-0001: Hello, the answers you need are all in WP:ORGCRIT so you are best off reading that. It means that the company must have been covered significantly in secondary sources. (i.e. places the company did not create themselves, such as their official website, their social media pages, et cetera). Otherwise it is considered advertising, which is not allowed. News articles would be an example of such a thing - IF the coverage is not trivial.ZXCVBNM (TALK) 04:05, 23 March 2021 (UTC)
Category:Mecha games has been nominated for renaming
Category:Mecha games has been nominated for renaming. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 06:18, 19 April 2021 (UTC)
Rayman mini delated thanks
Hi Zxcvbnm. You wrote in a draft that I'm building good advices to make a better article. That was a time ago, but I need to thank you because very few users that decline my drafts gave me good feedback to enhanced my contributions. I really appreciate. Have a wonderful day.--Javier Alejandro Herrera Carvajal (talk) 00:04, 8 May 2021 (UTC)
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Note that any non-free images not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described in section F5 of the criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. --B-bot (talk) 17:30, 11 May 2021 (UTC)
Wikiproject Video games Newsletter survey
I'm conducting another survey for the Wikiproject Video games Newsletter. If you could leave your thoughts on the matter it would be greatly appreciated. Every response will be compiled into a MOS-Esque answer that balances the thoughts of our top contributors. You're one of them! The question is as follows:
What would you consider the requirements of making a video game series article? What about franchise articles?
If you would like to respond, please ping me here and write your reply. I'll handle the rest. Thanks in advance, Panini!🥪 14:57, 14 May 2021 (UTC)
Join the Nintendo Task Force!
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Note that any non-free images not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described in section F5 of the criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. --B-bot (talk) 17:10, 23 June 2021 (UTC)
Better head over to Talk:Baten Kaitos: Eternal Wings and the Lost Ocean and add your support to the re-opened discussion there. Skyerise (talk) 03:07, 2 July 2021 (UTC)
- This editor is canvassing you in support of a single edit you made a couple years ago, FYI. Sergecross73 msg me 03:18, 2 July 2021 (UTC)
- @Sergecross73: This editor has already stated their support of the dab page, before I contacted them, but in the wrong place, on Talk:Baten Kaitos. Why don't you copy that vote over, eh? Skyerise (talk) 03:48, 2 July 2021 (UTC)
Mark Cheverton
Hi, thanks for reviewing Draft:Mark Cheverton. When I saw your decline message on my talk page I was thinking "huh? Where did that come from?" I had completely forgotten that I had written it. I got the idea to write the draft after my son said he enjoyed reading one of Cheverton's books, and I couldn't find any information on Wikipedia about him.
I agree the majority of sources would be considered WP:PRIMARY, but sources 1 and 5 (the bestseller lists) aren't. I recall when I wrote the draft wondering whether being a New York Times bestselling author is a sufficient claim of notability, possibly meeting WP:NAUTHOR criterion #4. I wasn't sure, so I didn't move it to main space myself.
Had I moved it to main space, that assertion of notability would have been sufficient to avoid speedy deletion, but possibly not AFD.
I can't see much coverage beyond interviews and sites with user-generated content. Maybe I could write to Mr Cheverton and ask him to suggest some independent sources. Notable reviews of his books may help. ~Anachronist (talk) 17:02, 7 July 2021 (UTC)
- @Anachronist: You may have better luck creating articles about his books rather than the author himself. It is rather often that an author's works are notable even if they themselves do not merit an independent page about them. In any event, WP:NAUTHOR says that being a bestselling author means they are probably notable, but it is not in itself a fallback argument in the event of non-notability.ZXCVBNM (TALK) 20:12, 7 July 2021 (UTC)
- Hmm... That's the opposite of what we do in music. We can't have an article about an album unless the artist first has an article, else WP:A9 takes effect and the album article is speedy deleted. That's why I created an article about the author than the books. ~Anachronist (talk) 00:50, 8 July 2021 (UTC)
- I think that usually albums are a lot less "separable" from the artist who created them. Books, films and games can usually stand alone. There is no such speedy deletion criteria for those.ZXCVBNM (TALK) 10:55, 8 July 2021 (UTC)
- Hmm... That's the opposite of what we do in music. We can't have an article about an album unless the artist first has an article, else WP:A9 takes effect and the album article is speedy deleted. That's why I created an article about the author than the books. ~Anachronist (talk) 00:50, 8 July 2021 (UTC)
Articles for Creation July 2021 Backlog Elimination Drive
Hello Zxcvbnm:
WikiProject Articles for creation is holding a month long Backlog Drive!
The goal of this drive is to eliminate the backlog of unreviewed articles. The drive is running until 31 July 2021.
Barnstars will be given out as awards at the end of the drive.
There is currently a backlog of over 1000 articles, so start reviewing articles. We're looking forward to your help!
Sent by MediaWiki message delivery (talk) on behalf of Wikipedia:WikiProject Articles for Creation at 21:54, 7 July 2021 (UTC). If you do not wish to recieve future notification, please remove your name from the mailing list.
Pokémon AfDs
Hey, can you hold off on future AfDs for a while? I want to go through the articles and like, try to update their sources and bring them up to modern quality standards, to see what can be salvaged and what cannot. - Bryn (talk) (contributions) 10:54, 13 July 2021 (UTC)
- @Abryn: If you are suggesting that I AfD things simply because they are surface level poorly written articles, I would never purposely do that. I would only AfD an article if I could not find any significant sources to support its existence. If that is the case, then no amount of updating would save them, so the point is moot.ZXCVBNM (TALK) 20:22, 13 July 2021 (UTC)
- Uh, all right. - Bryn (talk) (contributions) 00:57, 14 July 2021 (UTC)
Hello, Zxcvbnm. I agree with all your nominations to AfD. My current concern is that, while we were discussing Blastoise, Giratina, Deoxys, Mudkip, etc., some users began creating (or recreating) articles on other minor Pokémon, such as Drifloon, Popplio, and Wooloo. The reception sections are written in the same style like the already merged Pokémon: giving an initial impression of deep coverage, but in reality they are just a collection of mentions from video game websites. I point this out not just to nominate these articles (and even Psyduck and others), but also to keep an eye on future creations; otherwise we may have the same problem we had years ago, with tens or even hundreds on individual articles like this is the Bulbapedia or some other Pokémon fan-site. Cheers! --LoЯd ۞pεth 22:20, 19 July 2021 (UTC)
- @Lord Opeth: I have little interest in making sure people aren't creating new Pokemon articles, I'd rather spend my time making new articles instead and doing something more productive. But the best thing you can do about it is immediately send it to AfD if you spot a non-notable Pokemon article. Then, in the future it can be speedied under WP:G4 if it's substantially identical.ZXCVBNM (TALK) 23:30, 19 July 2021 (UTC)
Hi there, I'm pleased to inform you that I've begun reviewing the article Tetris DS you nominated for GA-status according to the criteria. 
This process may take up to 7 days. Feel free to contact me with any questions or comments you might have during this period. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of Steelkamp -- Steelkamp (talk) 14:20, 28 July 2021 (UTC)
The article Tetris DS you nominated as a good article has been placed on hold 
. The article is close to meeting the good article criteria, but there are some minor changes or clarifications needing to be addressed. If these are fixed within 7 days, the article will pass; otherwise it may fail. See Talk:Tetris DS for issues which need to be addressed. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of Steelkamp -- Steelkamp (talk) 16:20, 28 July 2021 (UTC)
The article Tetris DS you nominated as a good article has passed 
; see Talk:Tetris DS for comments about the article. Well done! If the article has not already appeared on the main page as a "Did you know" item, or as a bold link under "In the News" or in the "On This Day" prose section, you can nominate it within the next seven days to appear in DYK. Bolded names with dates listed at the bottom of the "On This Day" column do not affect DYK eligibility. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of Steelkamp -- Steelkamp (talk) 03:01, 29 July 2021 (UTC)
Your GA nomination of Crazy Taxi: Fare Wars
Hi there, I'm pleased to inform you that I've begun reviewing the article Crazy Taxi: Fare Wars you nominated for GA-status according to the criteria. This process may take up to 7 days. Feel free to contact me with any questions or comments you might have during this period. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of IceWelder -- IceWelder (talk) 14:00, 4 August 2021 (UTC)
A New Beginning
- disambiguate between similarly named articles
Did you happen to review what links here before making this move? Because I'm seeing broken links that haven't been fixed. Were you planning on fixing those? Was this disambiguation justified beyond your personal love of a video game with the same name? Viriditas (talk) 08:39, 6 August 2021 (UTC)
- @Viriditas: Apologies, that skipped my mind. All the disambiguations have been fixed.
- That said, it was not just informed by the video game. There are numerous works of media called "A New Beginning", including an episode of the Walking Dead that was mistakenly linked to the speech, a couple movies and a book. It's not that I believe the video game is the primary topic - it's not - there is just no primary topic for "A New Beginning". ZXCVBNM (TALK) 13:47, 6 August 2021 (UTC)
- @Viriditas: And of course, let us not forget news articles like this one which refer to the speech as "New Beginning" without the "A". Since it's interchangeable with "New Beginning speech", that makes the name even more vague compared to the other entries on the disambiguation page. ZXCVBNM (TALK) 13:58, 6 August 2021 (UTC)
- That's not what the link says at all. The name of the speech is not used in that article. The name of Obama's speech is "A New Beginning", not "New Beginning". See the article talk page for a discussion about the article title which was given later than the speech itself. Also, you didn't answer my question about fixing the broken article title links that occurred after your disambiguation. Have you fixed them? Viriditas (talk) 14:46, 6 August 2021 (UTC)
- @Viriditas: All the article links were fixed. ZXCVBNM (TALK) 15:01, 6 August 2021 (UTC)
- Thank you. May I ask, is that tool helpful, and what is the best way to use it? Viriditas (talk) 22:22, 6 August 2021 (UTC)
- The tool is massively helpful in disambiguating links... I often disambiguate topics and it would take forever if it wasn't tool assisted. You basically just activate it when you are on a disambiguation page and it lets you select a link to change each incoming link to. ZXCVBNM (TALK) 22:26, 6 August 2021 (UTC)
- Thank you. May I ask, is that tool helpful, and what is the best way to use it? Viriditas (talk) 22:22, 6 August 2021 (UTC)
- @Viriditas: All the article links were fixed. ZXCVBNM (TALK) 15:01, 6 August 2021 (UTC)
- That's not what the link says at all. The name of the speech is not used in that article. The name of Obama's speech is "A New Beginning", not "New Beginning". See the article talk page for a discussion about the article title which was given later than the speech itself. Also, you didn't answer my question about fixing the broken article title links that occurred after your disambiguation. Have you fixed them? Viriditas (talk) 14:46, 6 August 2021 (UTC)
- @Viriditas: And of course, let us not forget news articles like this one which refer to the speech as "New Beginning" without the "A". Since it's interchangeable with "New Beginning speech", that makes the name even more vague compared to the other entries on the disambiguation page. ZXCVBNM (TALK) 13:58, 6 August 2021 (UTC)
Death's Door
Hi Zxcvbnm, I don't understand your reason for reverting my edit to Death's Door. You removed a valid entry for Death's Door (Slade), which was moved from Death's Door (disambiguation). Leschnei (talk) 17:55, 9 August 2021 (UTC)
- @Leschnei: It's not a valid entry, as there doesn't exist an article for it. Things should only be mentioned on disambiguations when there is a distinct article for them. ZXCVBNM (TALK) 20:54, 9 August 2021 (UTC)
- DABMENTIONs are included in disambiguation pages. Whether or not Slade's Death's Door provides "value to the reader" is another question! Leschnei (talk) 20:59, 9 August 2021 (UTC)
- @Leschnei: I don't think it counts under a DABMENTION as it has no section on it in the target article. It just gets a single mention as part of a list. ZXCVBNM (TALK) 21:03, 9 August 2021 (UTC)
- That's not a requirement for DABMENTION. For example, it's very common for dab pages to have links to a musical album based on a match with a song title, even if that song only appears in the track listing and isn't otherwise mentioned in the article. Take a look at Forever#Songs, for example. I happen to think this is excessive and unhelpful to the reader, but it's the world we live in. Colin M (talk) 00:05, 10 August 2021 (UTC)
- @Leschnei: I don't think it counts under a DABMENTION as it has no section on it in the target article. It just gets a single mention as part of a list. ZXCVBNM (TALK) 21:03, 9 August 2021 (UTC)
- DABMENTIONs are included in disambiguation pages. Whether or not Slade's Death's Door provides "value to the reader" is another question! Leschnei (talk) 20:59, 9 August 2021 (UTC)