Talk:Middle Eastern crisis (2023–present)

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On 6 November 2024, it was proposed that this article be moved to Middle Eastern crisis. The result of the discussion was not moved.

The contents of this article need to be presented as a timeline, not sorted by geographical areas

Otherwise it would be a mess as it is right now. Sgnpkd (talk) 17:55, 27 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Feel free to take the initiative to do so. Fantastic Mr. Fox (talk) 09:16, 28 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I do agree that that would be an improvement to the article, but it would require a major rewrite of the article's contents, which most editors are probably unwilling to do. The article is written in this way because it is largely based on the former Spillover of the Israel-Hamas war article, which was written in this fashion. VoicefulBread66 (talk) 09:44, 28 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 6 November 2024

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: not moved. – robertsky (talk) 02:36, 13 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Middle Eastern crisis (2023–present) → Middle Eastern crisis – what are we disambiguating exactly? no need to include the dates in the article name WP:CONCISE Abo Yemen ✉ 15:02, 5 November 2024 (UTC) This is a contested technical request (permalink). estar8806 (talk) ★ 01:53, 6 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Abo Yemen The term "Middle Eastern crisis" is extremely generic, and having it focus only on a single recent string of conflicts would likely be controversial enough that it merits discussion. You can open a discussion by clicking the "discuss" link in your request above, and make sure to notify Talk:List of modern conflicts in the Middle East as well. --Ahecht (TALK
PAGE) 15:29, 5 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: WikiProject Palestine, WikiProject Military history, and WikiProject Israel Palestine Collaboration have been notified of this discussion. estar8806 (talk) ★ 01:55, 6 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose: The suggested name is not sufficiently clear about what it the article is about, per Ahecht. —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 03:52, 6 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose: Using no disambiguation would make the title too generic. "Middle Eastern crisis" on its own can refer to a lot of different things. VoicefulBread66 (talk) 04:43, 7 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose: There have been several Middle Eastern crises, using a vague title could refer to several different times where the Middle East has had a crisis. AJ Santaella (talk) 01:10, 8 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose DeadlyRampage26 (talk) 02:19, 11 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Israel under the Casualties section

This looks like it need some work. Since I am not an extended confirmed user I can't do it but i would suggest something like.

1,189 people where killed(https://www.barrons.com/news/new-tally-puts-oct-7-attack-death-toll-in-israel-at-1-189-3e038de6) and 3,400 injured(https://thehill.com/policy/4247805-israeli-death-toll-from-hamas-attack-surpasses-1000-top-military-officer-says/) in the 7th of October attack. At least 200,000 civilians have been internally displaced from both Israels northern and gazan border.(https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/dangerous-stasis-israels-northern-border-leaves-evacuees-limbo-2024-01-11/)

Since then 378 Israeli soldiers have died in the Gaza strip and 2448 have been wounded.(https://www.gov.il/en/pages/swords-of-iron-idf-casualties) On the northern border and in Lebanon 44 civilians and 70 soldiers have been killed.(https://www.timesofisrael.com/lebanese-official-says-hezbollah-agrees-to-us-ceasefire-proposal-with-comments/)

While this wouldn't be a finished product I do think that it would be a step up from the current text which is both outdated and gives the image that there have only been 12 israeli military deaths and 6 civilian deaths since the 7th of october. Jjoonnii (talk) 16:51, 26 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Jjoonnii I don't see any part of the article that implies only 12 Israeli military deaths and 6 civilian deaths since 7 October. Could you point out the specific section of the article? It is also possible that you commented this on the wrong talk page by accident. VoicefulBread66 (talk) 10:55, 29 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

”In total, 12 IDF soldiers, including deputy commander Alim Abdallah, and 6 civilians were killed in strikes from Lebanon into northern Israel.” Jjoonnii (talk) 14:47, 29 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Jjoonnii I've updated the section based on your suggested text with minor changes. It's indeed much better than what was there before. Alaexis_¿question? 20:54, 29 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 30 November 2024

This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

Putting the HTS in the same column as Israel and the US is a funny POV, considering the US takes them as a terrorist organisation.

Either remove the HTS from the Infobox, or put it in its own column if its offensive is really deemed to be a part of the crisis — 🧀Cheesedealer ^!!!⚟ 01:56, 30 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Done Source did not confirm that it was aligned with the other parties in that column. Thebiguglyalien (talk) 19:56, 30 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Syrian conflict?

I think the Syrian conflict should also be added to this article. This includes the recent offensive by Tahrir al-Sham against Iranian and Syrian forces that resulted in the capture of Aleppo.VR _{(Please ping on reply)} 23:08, 30 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, i approve of this decision, because if it wasn't for Israel and Iran attacking each other, it probably wouldn't have happened, Go ahead. Superyassi362 (talk) 13:27, 1 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I disagree. Unless you can provide a reliable source that establishes a conneaction between this series of conflicts and the Northwestern Syria offensive, that should not be added. "it probably wouldn't have happened" is not sufficient proof to add this into the article. VoicefulBread66 (talk) 03:49, 3 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Reverts

Smallangryplanet, can you please explain why decided to revert the edit that introduced neutral point of view and why adding an issue to a maintenance template is vandalism? Thebiguglyalien (talk) 00:13, 1 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I don't see how removing Palestinian victims of Israeli bombing is NPOV. Is there any dispute that Palestinians were bombed in the Gaza Strip? VR _{(Please ping on reply)} 02:03, 1 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

In statements about military operations such as bombings, it is the location that's specified, not the nationality that lives there. Bombing of Dresden doesn't say that it was a "bombing of the Germans" or "bombing of the Dresdenites". I know you're very well aware of this. Thebiguglyalien (talk) 02:45, 1 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Thebiguglyalien this is exactly why I reverted it as not being NPOV – Bombing of Dresden is a reference to a specific assault, so making it appear as though there was an isolated, solitary "Bombing of Gaza" is an obvious editorialisation. Besides, the wikilink in question is already to a page called Bombing of Gaza, and the next sentence refers to Palestinians, so it makes sense in context.

With regards to the WP:PROSELINE removal the article is not an article that attempt[s] to be (and should be) prose, but end[s] up looking like timelines. It looks like there's already a talk topic about this here where other editors want the page to be more like a timeline, so I suggest taking it up with them. Smallangryplanet (talk) 10:23, 1 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 1 December 2024

This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

Please add {{Extended confirmed topicon}} to the top of the article, since the article is protected but the icon is missing. — ypn^2 02:27, 1 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Done sort of - the topicon template is for userpages while {{pp-extended|small=yes}} is for these sorts of pages. (More here.) Smallangryplanet (talk) 10:32, 1 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 2 December 2024

This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

Please add "Northwestern Syria offensive (2024)" because the crisis in the Middle East is not limited against Israel only, I Know it is a part of the Syrian Civil War but it coincides with the Israel-Hamas-Lebanon war, let's make the discuss the conflicts in the Middle East generally in this article, after accepting you can make "Northwestern Syria offensive (2024)" part of the Middle Eastern crisis (2023–present) and the Syrian Civil War. 178.81.55.110 (talk) 15:01, 2 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Not done (yet)... I'm a little confused, where to you want to add Northwestern Syria offensive (2024)? - Adolphus79 (talk) 15:11, 2 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

In event section and infobox, This article is supposed to bring together all the conflicts in the Middle East after 2023 generally. 178.81.55.110 (talk) 15:40, 2 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@178.81.55.110 This article is about the series of conflicts in the Middle East which are linked in one way or another to the Israel–Hamas war. As the Northwestern Syria offensive doesn't really have any link to that, it should not be included in this article (unless you can provide a reliable source that establishes a link). VoicefulBread66 (talk) 03:50, 3 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I've WP:BOLDly added it to the article — while I didn't include it in the actual edit, my rationale is that, per the NYT and others, the rebel offensive was the direct result of the weakening of Hezbollah and Iran in the Iran- and Hezbollah-Israel conflicts. DecafPotato (talk) 06:42, 3 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@DecafPotato Please add this rationale into the section on the article. VoicefulBread66 (talk) 07:51, 3 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Edit Request

Change the sentence in the lede from "Israel retaliated by bombing Palestinians..." To something more scholarly/relevant like "Israel has retaliated with an extensive ground campaign and airstrikes against Gaza with the stated goal of destroying Hamas and releasing the hostages" Fyukfy5 (talk) 21:06, 3 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Not done — Please see the discussion on this talk page above under the header "Reverts" DecafPotato (talk) 21:20, 3 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Edit Request

Please change the first sentence from "...which began with the Hamas-led attack on Israel..." To which began with the Hamas-led attack on Israelis and invasion of Israel..." This is consistent with the following sentence which states that Israel "Retaliated by bombing Palestinians and invading the territory". Fyukfy5 (talk) 21:25, 3 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]