Talk:Sakura Wars 2: Thou Shalt Not Die

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Sakura Wars 2: Thou Shalt Not Die/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Freikorp (talk · contribs) 11:01, 16 April 2018 (UTC)

1. Is it reasonably well written?

   "and later ported to other systems including the Dreamcast" - In the lead, why not mention which other systems, or at least when the Dreamcast port happened?

   Ensign always had a capital at Sakura Wars (video game), yet it does not here. Which is correct?

   I made some copyedits. Feel free to revert them if you don't think it's an improvement and we can instead discuss the issues here.

2. Is it factually accurate and verifiable?

   A. Has an appropriate reference section:

   B. Citation to reliable sources where necessary:

   C. No original research:

3. Is it broad in its coverage?

   A. Major aspects:

   You're definetely the expert on this series, but I still have to ask, are you sure you can't find more reviews for this game? Considering it was more commercially successull than its predecessor I'm confused to see it has less critical reviews.

   B. Focused:

4. Is it neutral?

   Fair representation without bias:

5. Is it stable?

   No edit wars, etc:

6. Does it contain images to illustrate the topic?

   A. Images are tagged with their copyright status, and valid fair use rationales are provided for non-free content:

   B. Images are provided if possible and are relevant to the topic, and have suitable captions:

7. Overall:

   Pass or Fail: Very close to passing. Placing on hold until issues are addressed. Freikorp (talk) 11:28, 16 April 2018 (UTC)

   I've fixed the issues you raised. And your CE edits are improvements rather than anything, so thank you. I also picked up some repetition you missed. As to additional sources for reviews... Yeah, that's all I found. In terms of its critical reception, it's the worst covered of all the Sakura Wars games. Heck, it's the worst covered game full stop. I had trouble finding enough to put this article together. It was a nightmare sourcing it all. Given when it was released, I'm not surprised it was ignored by the press. --ProtoDrake (talk) 12:11, 16 April 2018 (UTC)

   Looks great, passing now. Well done. :) Freikorp (talk) 03:13, 17 April 2018 (UTC)

Chinese versions

Hi! I am translating this article into the Chinese Wikipedia, and found the content about the Chinese version is not accurate:

There were two Chinese versions:

1. the Simplified Chinese (簡体字) version was released in Mainland China by 天人互動/天人互动 (Tianren Hudong, or Matrix Interactive);
2. the Traditional Chinese (繁体字) version was released in Taiwan by 大新資訊 (Dysin Interactive).

Both two Chinese versions were released on November 10 (11月10日). And August 17 (8月17日) is the date that Chinese versions of the series' first title (同シリーズの1作目) released. --Lopullinen 17:11, 19 July 2020 (UTC)

Title

As per WP:VG/JP: "In games where there is no official English title (such as Osu! Tatakae! Ouendan), the first sentence should retain the romanized Japanese title while the remaining translation information should be placed in a footnote." Sakura Wars 1-4 do not have official English titles. They were never released outside Japan. The English title used in this page is not an official title, but a rough translation by fans. Maestro2016 (talk) 08:38, 25 April 2022 (UTC)

Actually, there was an earlier discussion on this matter at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Video games#Sakura Wars titles. Sega confirmed the English titles for the first four games on their official Twitter page here and the first game's box art had the English title on the sides (in this case, it's "Sakura Wars"). The second through fourth games also have the English "Sakura Wars" in the title. Lord Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 23:58, 25 April 2022 (UTC)

Support usage of English titles Sjones. There's precedent for using English titles commonly used by reliable sources too - see examples like Valkyria Chronicles 3, which came to its article title as a result of multiple talk page discussions/consensus. Sergecross73 msg me 02:05, 26 April 2022 (UTC)

As the person who created this article, I initially chose the title because it was the common English translation for the poem "Kimi, Shinitamō Koto Nakare", after which the game is named. But Sega has recently given it as the canon name, and I found other articles at least giving Thou Shalt Not Die as a common translation/English rendering. If there must be a change, it could be to the lead following the example of Valkyria Chronicles III. And before it's brought up, yes this may be an unknown case of citogenesis, but so may the Fire Emblem: The Binding Blade. In that case, Nintendo gave an official title and it is known as such, as in this case. We don't know whether it was influenced by fans, or whether fans/writers got lucky with the translation, but it's the name Nintendo's given that Japan-exclusive title. --ProtoDrake (talk) 06:48, 26 April 2022 (UTC)

The problem with this argument is that it's WP:CITOGENESIS (as mentioned by article creator ProtoDrake above). This article's title was never the official English title for the game up until 2020, when Sega eventually acknowledged it as a result of this Wikipedia article. Maestro2016 (talk) 08:48, 7 May 2022 (UTC)

I never said it was due to anything related to Wikipedia, that's a presumption on your part. I'm merely raising the point. --ProtoDrake (talk) 12:23, 11 May 2022 (UTC)

Sjones23, why do you keep removing the footnote with the official Japanese title? As per WP:VG/JP, "It is recommended" to place the Japanese title "in a footnote to the official English title." This is literally the WP:Consensus across Japanese video game articles. Why do you oppose this? Maestro2016 (talk) 12:02, 10 May 2022 (UTC)

I'm actually using the "nihongo foot" template for the official Japanese titles of the first four games. Hope this clears it up. Lord Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 13:27, 10 May 2022 (UTC)

There are two problems with this. As per WP:VGLAYOUT, the " name of the game" should be "in bold italics." And secondly, the official title on the box says "Sakura Taisen 2", not "Sakura Taisen Tsū". Maestro2016 (talk) 13:41, 10 May 2022 (UTC)

The name of the game is, of course, in bold italics. As for the official title in the box (i.e. "Sakura Taisen 2"), the italicized romanization is a guide on how to pronounce the name for a person unfamiliar with the topic. Also, one of the relevant guidelines as per WP:MOS-JA#General guidelines also says, "When transliterating text that includes numerals, use the most common reading of the numbers in the transliteration rather than the numerals themselves." In this case, the 2 in "Sakura Taisen 2" is pronounced "Tsū". Lord Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 13:53, 10 May 2022 (UTC)

In this case, there are two names of the game. As we've established, the only official release title to date is the Japanese title. The English title, which originated from Wikipedia (credit to ProtoDrake above), was only informally recognized by Sega's Twitter account two years ago, via WP:CITOGENESIS. Since the Japanese title is the only official release title, there is no reason why it should not be bolded. As for the "2" vs "Tsu" thing, that's why I listed the official title ("Sakura Taisen 2") and the transliteration ("Sakura Taisen Tsu") separately. Maestro2016 (talk) 16:38, 10 May 2022 (UTC)

To add, on Sakura Wars: So Long, My Love, you've wrote in the footnote "Known in Japan as Sakura Wars V: Farewell, My Lovely" which is WP:Original research as that's not an official translation, but an original fan translation. The only official English title is Sakura Wars: So Long, My Love. Maestro2016 (talk) 16:38, 10 May 2022 (UTC)

Oh, I know. According to one of the CD singles for the fifth game (as well as the Japanese version of the game's first episode preview), the subtitle's official translation is rendered as Farewell, My Love. Here's the link. Lord Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 00:01, 11 May 2022 (UTC)

I feel I must say (before I'm blamed in absentia for any more official titles) that I first heard many of the Sakura Wars English translations from this YouTube retrospective, which I took with a metric ton of salt. I chose the article titles after careful research and deliberation based on the most common English versions I found. When I looked up "Yosano Akiko Kimi, Shinitamō Koto Nakare", I found "Thou Shalt Not Die" as a common translation well before I created this article, and before the video I include here. If it's such a silly contention, just move the articles to Sakura Wars [insert number here]. --ProtoDrake (talk) 12:23, 11 May 2022 (UTC)

@Sjones23 and Maestro2016:, additional point to consider. This page by Production I.G's English website used the Thou Shalt Not Die subtitle. That page dates back to 2006. --ProtoDrake (talk) 19:19, 11 May 2022 (UTC)

I also want to back up Drake's work regarding the other titles for the third and fourth Sakura Taisen entries; Production I.G. also used the same subtitles as seen on this page. To sum up my two cents, what Sega did was not WP:CITOGENESIS (as implied by Maestro), but rather based their post on what I.G. had lying around and those are indeed the official subtitles for the other ones. Just my opinion... Roberth Martinez (talk) 13:19, 13 May 2022 (UTC)