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Archive 1

Images

Who removed them, the more images we have, the best the article will be.

--Mr Alex (talk) 22:57, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

Snake's Wikipedia is gone

I find it very ironic that in the few months since Snake told, in an episode, that some morons edited his wikipedia page while seeing that it has been in fact merged with this one. Seriously, what's up with this? I think the mere fact that his page was mentionned in the Simpsons means that it deserves to exist. Because, now it really looks like what he said was true. WillTheHedgehog (talk) 05:55, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

"Just Stamp The Ticket" Guy

Shouldn't the "Just Stamp The Ticket" Guy be included in the Minor Characters list. This nameless character has been featured in a number of Simpsons episodes, and I believe a deleted scene on The Simpsons movie--making reference to his appearance in Season 3's 'When Flanders Failed'.

Other speaking appearances have been: 9F21 'I doubt my son or daughter is that stupid.' 7F23 'I heard you get parking tickets validated here without a purchase', 8F14 'Outta my way' and 9F07 'You sicken me'.

161.184.25.54 (talk) 11:04, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

Is that really the same guy? I will have to watch those episodes to see if it is. Although I am not sure if he would be put here or not. Rhino131 (talk) 22:51, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

Guidlines!

Guidlines make everything fun.. How would you like to impose these guidlines on the list of recurring characters? These can rule out any unwanted or unneeded characters.

1. 99% of all celebrity appearances are non-canon and should not be inlcuded in the recurring character article.

2. Characters should be referred to as what other characters call them, or what the writers/producers have said.

3. All characters appearing in cutaway jokes should not be included in the recurring articles. Any character who makes three appearances or more can be safely counted as a character.

4. All characters who are central characters in the storyline of a single episode but do not make anymore appearances should not be inlcuded in the recurring character article. (Examples: Jack Crowley, Dwight Diddlehopper, Julia)

5. All characters who are central characters in the storyline of two or more episodes should be included in the recurring character article.

Non-free images

CopyrightDrone (talk) 08:05, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

Eddie "Not Human"?

I think this is a mis-hearing of the dialogue. Seeing CBG and Agnes making love, Eddie gets sick, and Lou's message to him is an attempt to console him in a parody of the cliche scene of emergency workers' reactions to extreme gore at a crime scene: "If it doesn't affect you, you're not human." —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.60.9.178 (talk) 18:09, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

Title

Some guy wants to move this "List of recurring and minor characters in The Simpsons". I feel it is unnecessary since a minor character is also a recurring one and "List of recurring characters in The Simpsons" is shorter and more to the point. --Maitch (talk) 11:36, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

Ned Flanders

I am considering merging Ned Flanders with this article, so im discussing it first -- Dodgechris (talk) (UTC)

Ummm, considering Flanders is more than a recurring character, and what with his article being good article status and all. No. Gran2 21:24, 27 July 2008 (UTC)
As Gran2 said, Flanders is one of the most important characters and the article is already a GA, so no. --Maitch (talk) 08:18, 28 July 2008 (UTC)

"Mr. Burns's Lawyer," not "Blue-Haired Lawyer"

"Blue-Haired Lawyer" is an invention of the fans. The character has always been named "Burns's Lawyer." If you listen to the Simpsons DVD commentaries, they always refer to him as such.

well show me some examples, cause I got all 10 seasons...and also please sign your posts on all talk pages by typing ~~~~ CTJF83Talk 20:48, 30 July 2008 (UTC)

Bot report : Found duplicate references !

In the last revision I edited, I found duplicate named references, i.e. references sharing the same name, but not having the same content. Please check them, as I am not able to fix them automatically :)

  • "StoporMyDog" :
    • ''[[The Simpsons]]'' episode: "[[Stop, or My Dog Will Shoot!]]"
    • ''[[The Simpsons]]'' episode: "[[Stop or My Dog Will Shoot]]"
  • "TheresSomething" :
    • ''[[The Simpsons]]'' episode: "[[There's Something About Marrying]]"
    • letus treats the family pig better than her.<ref name="SimpleSimpson">''[[The Simpsons]]'' episode: "[[Simple Simpson]]"

DumZiBoT (talk) 02:39, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

Should Kirk and Luanne's bios from Van Houten family be merged into this article?

I believe they should.198.85.228.129 (talk) 17:11, 4 August 2008 (UTC)

Probably not, they are still semi-notable characters. Plus the family page has Milhouse's grandparents, and uncle Norbert. CTJF83Talk 02:38, 2 September 2008 (UTC)
  • Support. I don't think we need a page for the Van Houten family. Milhouse's grandparents and uncle Norbert are not very notable. Kirk and Luanne could easily fit the recurring list. --Maitch (talk) 14:03, 2 September 2008 (UTC)

The Mob

I don't have time to research it, but someone please add "The Mob."

You know, like "Where can we get these placebos?" "Maybe there's some in this truck!" —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.151.85.56 (talk) 22:15, 26 August 2008 (UTC)

There have been many mobs in the show, none are notable enough to list. CTJF83Talk 23:30, 26 August 2008 (UTC)

Recent Edits

I have put leopold, State Comptroller Atkins, Miss hoover and other springfield elementary staff into this page seeing as Springfield elementary students are already in this article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Eopsid (talk • contribs) 19:29, 9 November 2008 (UTC)

Merge?

I think this and List of characters in The Simpsons could be merged Ruhrfisch ><>°° 00:57, 2 September 2008 (UTC)

Jimbo Jones

Was Jimbo Jones named after Jim Jones the cult leader responsible for over 900 deaths from flavoured drink and cyanide? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 121.44.159.182 (talk) 07:32, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

Explaining my changes

I cleaned up the page to make room for the celebrity list, should it be merged. I removed 2 characters. My criteria for inclusion was characters that have either appeared in several episodes, or characters that have only been in a couple but played a major role in at least one. Thus, two were removed: Dr. Velimirovic, who has only had 3 very minor appearances and the Vanderbilts, who are basically background characters who occasionally have one line. This list should be limited to the major ones, otherwise it would become insanely long. -- Scorpion0422 15:40, 11 December 2008 (UTC)

Springfield Mafia merge

This page is already on the long side, but I really think that the mafia page is unnecessary as it is overdetailing for a group of mostly minor characters. Legs, Louie and Johnny Tightlips should be merged. Frankie the Squealer is a possible merge, the rest are one-timers and too minor to be added. -- Scorpion0422 19:06, 16 December 2008 (UTC)

I agree. --Maitch (talk) 19:19, 16 December 2008 (UTC)
Agreed. Gran2 19:39, 16 December 2008 (UTC)
Definately, only one ref cited on article. SpideyFan09 19:13, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
Support merge as, apart from the ovderdetailing, it also has not established clear notability. --LoЯd ۞pεth 03:20, 10 January 2009 (UTC)

Professor Frink merge

I suggest that this article be merged here, with barely and sources-cited, and no in-depth content, recurred throughout the series. SpideyFan09 19:15, 18 December 2008 (UTC)

How can you say there are barely any sources? There are six (and it's a short article, so it's not like it's stretched out). In this case, I think the character is notable enough and there definitely are sources out there. They just aren't in the article yet. And there IS proof of cultural impact and notability, the Frink language. -- Scorpion0422 19:17, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
The references on the article are only written - no links to other web pages. SpideyFan09 19:41, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
So what? Does that make them any less reliable sources? If anything it makes them better. This article already has sufficient notability, and more is avaliable, it just hasn't been added yet. Gran2 20:31, 18 December 2008 (UTC)

i think proffesor frink should but not the mafia —Preceding unsigned comment added by Cpwwefan08 (talk • contribs) 21:13, 19 December 2008 (UTC)

What are the best sites to search upon to find reliable sources? That way I can site a couple more, article notability like Carl Carlson seriously need to be proven. SpideyFan09 17:39, 23 December 2008 (UTC)

I support the merger. This is not a Simpsons wikia, and there are lots of characters that have not managed to prove clear notability and coverage by a vast amount of reliable secondary sources. --LoЯd ۞pεth 03:20, 10 January 2009 (UTC)

I don't support the merger as there IS proof of cultural impact and notability, the Frink language. --Maitch (talk) 16:08, 10 January 2009 (UTC)

I do not support the merger as none of the other characters have the Frink computer language named after them! Joezasada (talk) 06:54, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

For crying out glavin, Frinky needs to be merged! What with the fire and the hey hey and he hurts me! BBS2112 come the hell on guys! this is one of the most important reccurring characters in the simpson's universe. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.26.81.77 (talk) 18:45, 16 January 2009 (UTC)

Squeaky Voiced Teen

In G.I.D'oh, he is refered to as Mr. Friedmann and is a manager of a shoe store. Is this info relevant? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.161.8.138 (talk) 19:55, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

Asa Phelps

Asa Phelps, one of Abe Simpson's old army buddies along with Sheldon Skinner, Arnie Gumble, Iggy Wiggum, Milton "Ox" Haas, Etch Westgrin, Griff McDonald, and Montgomery Burns, from the episode "Raging Abe Simpson and His Grumbling Grandson in 'The Curse of the Flying Hellfish'" or just "The Curse of the Flying Hellfish," deserves his recognition on this page. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Luke-simmons (talk • contribs) 00:57, 24 March 2009 (UTC)

In order for a character to appear on this page he/she has to be recurring. Asa Phelps is only featured in one episode. --Maitch (talk) 01:01, 24 March 2009 (UTC)

Very Tall Man

According to one of the DVD commentaries for The City of New York vs. Homer Simpson, there's a character not mentioned in this article, called "Very Tall Man" and modelled on Ian Maxtone-Graham. He appears in at least two episodes: the one just mentioned (where he's sitting behind Homer on the bus) and 22 Short Films About Springfield where he's the car driver who humiliates Nelson. (There may well be others, but they weren't mentioned on that commentary and I haven't seen every episode.)

Perhaps this information could be incorporated into this article? — 92.40.63.154 (talk) 08:50, 2 May 2009 (UTC)

2 minor appearances isn't really recurring. CTJF83Talk 17:24, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

Merge

I'm suggesting that we merge Martin Prince and Hans Moleman to the List of recurring characters in The Simpsons, as neither character is really major enough for his own page. Thoughts? CTJF83Talk 17:23, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

I really don't like merging anybody, but I suppose Moleman could go since all he does is get into accidents. I would say no to Martin, as I think he has played significant roles in many episodes. Rhino131 (talk) 22:39, 12 May 2009 (UTC)
Yeah, I think Martin should stay. I wouldn't oppose merging Moleman, though. TheLeftorium 17:59, 16 May 2009 (UTC)
Merge the character info from Springfield Elementary School as well would be good Eopsid 15:11, 26 May 2009(UTC)


Luigi's last name

Memory serving, and after so many episodes it often fails, we first hear Luigi's last name in Marge Simpson vs. SSCCATAG. I heard the name as "Luigi Risotto", not "Re Soto". Risotto would be a particularly good name for a chef. Has anyone seen anything written elsewhere that would lead them to suspect that it's "Re Soto"? -- Ventura 01:12, 2005 Jan 18 (UTC)

Rabbi Krustofsky

That article links to here, but there is no information on him here, or, it seems, anywhere else. This should not be. If he doesn't merit his own article, then he should be on this list.

Lou's Birthday

In the Trilogy of Errors episode Lou ask Wiggum if he can hold his gun sideways, Wiggum replies "Well, you're the birthday boy." Based on this I've added Lou's Birthday as March 21st which appears on the newspapers thrown during the episode. posted: Nov. 30th

Merge from Martha Quimby

Please merge any relevant content from Martha Quimby per Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Martha Quimby. (If there is nothing to merge, just leave it as a redirect.) Thanks. —Quarl (talk) 2007-02-25 05:21Z

Crandall

I agree with the Arthur Crandall idea, him having his own section. Superioruser talk:Sup3rior, 2007, (UTC)

Mrs. Glick

Fixed Mrs. Glick's bio. She's not the organist at the First Church of Springfield. That's Helen. PacificBoy 10:24, 17 July 2009 (UTC)

Eddie the Robocop?

In the episode where Comic Book Guy and Skinner's mom hook up, Eddie becomes nauseated and vomits upon discovering them in bed. Lou reasons with Eddie that it shouldn't bother him, since he's "not human". He doesn't outright reveal Eddie's a robot, but that's a very likely inference. It would also explain his seeming lack of a personal life, or personality at all. I imagine adding he's robotic would be seen as Original Research, but if nobody objects, I'll add a reference to Lou's comment and Eddie's possible non-human status. InedibleHulk (talk) 06:07, 31 July 2009 (UTC)

My bad. Looked up the quote, and found I misheard it. "IF it doesn't affect you, you're not human," was the actual line. Makes more sense now, but still find it was funnier before I was corrected. InedibleHulk (talk) 08:14, 31 July 2009 (UTC)

Lou and Eddie

I think Lou and Eddie need to be split up. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.254.89.216 (talk) 15:39, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

Why? They're usually seen together and their section is pretty shortCTJF83 chat 18:38, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

Richard and Lewis

Hey has anyone noticed that Lewis is starting to become more and more of a minor charcter while Richard is starting to speak and appear more. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.254.89.216 (talk) 14:41, 4 December 2009 (UTC)

Merge Rainier Wolfcastle to here?

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section. A summary of the conclusions reached follows.
The result was merge into List of media personalities in The Simpsons. Theleftorium (talk) 17:19, 17 August 2010 (UTC)

Rainier Wolfcastle (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
Poorly referenced and has only been in a few episodes. Since there's a Simpsons Wikia now, this character having a full article here seems superfluous. Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Professor Frink indicated that several editors supported the merge. Purplebackpack89 18:08, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Merge Radioactive Man to here?

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section. A summary of the conclusions reached follows.
The result was merge into List of fictional characters within The Simpsons. Theleftorium (talk) 17:20, 17 August 2010 (UTC)

Radioactive Man (The Simpsons character) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
Poorly referenced and has only been in a few episodes. Since there's a Simpsons Wikia now, this character having a full article here seems superfluous. Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Professor Frink indicated that several editors supported the merge. Purplebackpack89 18:09, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Luigi is missing!

The Italian restaurant keeper is completely missing here bein neither in this nor in this article. --188.23.176.248 (talk) 12:57, 10 August 2010 (UTC)

Re-added. Theleftorium (talk) 14:20, 10 August 2010 (UTC)

Artie Ziff

Artie Ziff's description is given as two one-sentence paragraphs, the first of which makes no sense, is grammatically horrible, and contradicts itself. This should be fixed. Doggitydogs (talk) 22:38, 10 October 2010 (UTC)

Snake / Jailbird / Chester Turley

Hello all - I put a sentence in Snake's section mentioning that his real name was shown to be Chester Turley in The Fool Monty. It was deleted without explanation. We have a canonical reference to that as the character's name... shouldn't this be mentioned, the way Comic Book Guy's article mentions the name Jeff Albertson? Seansinc (talk) 06:37, 24 November 2010 (UTC)

Kids

I think the kid's sections should be changed to Article Springfield Elementary School in the section "Students".--ToonsFan (talk) 16:34, 1 March 2011 (UTC)

What are you talking about? There is no "kids" section on this article. CTJF83 22:12, 1 March 2011 (UTC)

Bleeding Gums Murphy

I think Bleeding Gums Murphy should be moved to the page Celebrities on The Simpsons--ToonsFan (talk) 20:12, 19 March 2011 (UTC)

Dave Shutton

I think Dave Shutton should be moved to the page Media personalities on The Simpsons--ToonsFan (talk) 20:12, 19 March 2011 (UTC)

Why? Being a newspaper reporter does not make one a media personality. -- Scorpion0422 02:39, 20 March 2011 (UTC)

Too Big?

I couldn't help noticing that the article is over 100 KB in size. And that some characters in this list have their own Wikipedia articles. Maybe the characters that already have articles should be taken off the list to save space? Mackatacka123 (talk) 04:59, 27 April 2011 (UTC)

I removed the tag per Wikipedia:SIZE#Exceptions: Lists, Tables since such articles are almost always longer than normal articles by design. I don't see any characters with own articles on the list but if there are, 1-2 sentences and a {{main}} tag should be enough for those sections. Regards SoWhy 17:15, 26 June 2011 (UTC)

Possible recurring character

Having recently bought the series DVDs of seasons 1 through 13, I keep seeing this unscrupulous, seedy manager type character. Most recently I saw him in episode Day of the Jackanapes, where he managed storages where Sideshow Bob moved after being released from prison (yet again). I think he appears every once in a while. I decided to check this out from this page, but couldn't find him. Is he a recurring character? --88.115.197.59 (talk) 19:07, 7 May 2011 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure you are referring to the character 'Wiseguy', who is on the recurring characters page. Rhino131 (talk) 21:31, 9 May 2011 (UTC)

Merge proposal: Van Houten family and Flanders family

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section. A summary of the conclusions reached follows.
Consensus to merge both Van Houten family and Flanders family, and also Springfield Elementary School Theleftorium (talk) 21:44, 5 August 2011 (UTC)

I really see no point in having the articles Van Houten family and Flanders family, since Milhouse and Ned have their own pages. It would be better to merge them with this article to keep all characters in one place. Theleftorium (talk) 11:24, 31 July 2011 (UTC)

By that logic shouldn't you also merge the info about characters from the Springfield Elementary School article into this one as well. Eopsid (talk) 13:04, 31 July 2011 (UTC)
Yeah that's probably a good idea, but we can have that discussion afterwards. Theleftorium (talk) 13:58, 31 July 2011 (UTC)
Support.On the archived discussion page there was already a discussion about this. also i like the idea of a merger. It would make it easier to find info on all recurring characters on the Simpsons without having to sift through a number of pages. Also the articles you are considering merging are only rated start-class but there is a small bit of information which would disappear if you were to merge the pages. But this information is small and i wouldnt consider it notable and some of it especially in the Van Houten family article is unreferenced.Eopsid (talk) 17:41, 31 July 2011 (UTC)
Support - both those two and the school bios should be merged into here. I'd also propose maybe splitting this list into two, divided alphabetically (A - J and K - Z) or something, if it gets too long. Gran2 13:23, 1 August 2011 (UTC)
Support - I never really liked that the character articles are organized over so many articles. --Maitch (talk) 09:07, 5 August 2011 (UTC)
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Move some characters to the one-time list

I would like to propose that we move the following characters to the one-time list:

  • Allison Taylor
  • Anastasia
  • Lois Pennycandy
  • Mrs. Glick

The one-time list is not just for characters who appeared in a single episode, but instead character who mainly appeared in one episode and then only had cameos and appearences in the background. I believe those characters fit that description. --Maitch (talk) 14:14, 15 August 2011 (UTC)

Against All these characters appear in more than one episode although they appear prominently in only one. Apart from Anastasia who appears in more than one episode albeit briefly and no episode she appears in prominently. Also the other three characters are very prominent background characters (similiar to some of the other characters on this list eg Sam and Larry who are just background characters) and these three do occassionally do more than just appear in the background especially Mrs Glick. Also Allison Taylor is already in the one-time character list as well as the recurring list. Eopsid (talk) 18:47, 15 August 2011 (UTC)
I'm confused. You exactly prove my point. They only prominently appear in one episode and appears as background characters in a few more. That's the criteria for the one-time list. Why should Allison Taylor both be on the recurring and one-time list? --Maitch (talk) 19:16, 15 August 2011 (UTC)
This is what we write on the one-time list: "For purposes of this list, "one-time" means they were central to an episode one time. Some of the characters listed here have appeared in later episodes, but only briefly." --Maitch (talk) 20:02, 15 August 2011 (UTC)
Yes, but they appeared as prominently in later episodes as other recurring characters on the list. But these characters also have one epsiode where they are featured more prominently than any other. Eopsid (talk) 21:28, 15 August 2011 (UTC)
Seriously? We are talking about characters who doesn't have more than a minute of screen time after one episode out of 22 seasons. Do you consider that prominent? --Maitch (talk) 22:07, 15 August 2011 (UTC)
Characters on this list such as Sam and Larry do not appear prominently at all almost less though than some of these 4 characters (especially Mrs Glick). As well as this Lois Pennycandy and Alison Taylor are the only two characters out of your list of four who I think may deserve being put on the one-time list. So you have persuaded me into considering those two belong in the one-time characters section. Eopsid (talk) 09:08, 16 August 2011 (UTC)
Ok, I realize that this is very subjective. So maybe we should just discuss each character separetely.
My overall concern is that we give way to much weight (WP:UNDUE) to characters who doesn't really play a role in The Simpsons. We have really notable characters such as Sideshow Mel, Bleeding Gums, and Rainier Wolfcastle. To put such characters in the same group as Mrs. Glick seems like overkill.
Yes, there are characters, such as Sam and Larry, who doesn't even play a role in the overall plot of a single episode, but just appears in the background or as a cameo. If The Simpsons was live action, those characters would have been called extras and the actors wouldn't even get their name in the credits. I don't think an encyclopedia needs that kind of information - it is more or less the kind you would find on a fan site.
When I merged the lists, I also fixed the links going into the old lists. Out of all the characters there were on those list, only 3-4 characters were actually linked from another article. We don't even write about these characters in our episode summaries.
But lets discuss the characters individually. --Maitch (talk) 21:24, 16 August 2011 (UTC)
Maybe a list of background characters and minor recurring characters is the solution? Eopsid (talk) 20:18, 17 August 2011 (UTC)
That is actually a good idea, but I don't think we should split it off (if that was what you meant). A list like that would be hard to defend against AFD's. What if we made a section at the bottom where we list the background characters, but didn't give them a section each? That way we could reduce the TOC clutter and the characters won't take as much space without a section header for each character. We can still anchor them and make appropiate redirects, so that people will find them if they search for them. --Maitch (talk) 14:57, 18 August 2011 (UTC)

Allison Taylor

I propose we move this characters to the one-time list, because:

  1. She is already there, so at least one other person agrees that she belongs there.
  2. She was only central to the plot in one episode "Lisa's Rival".
  3. After that episode, she only appears in the background or in cameos.
  4. If you search on "Allison Tayler" and "The Simpsons" ([1]), she is only mentioned in one other episode summary "Lard of the Dance", but she doesn't have anything to do with the plot. --Maitch (talk) 21:33, 16 August 2011 (UTC)

Support Seems like a good idea. There is a difference between recurring characters that appeared in 100+ episodes and recurring characters that appeared in 3 episodes. Although it is tough to know where to draw the line because there are simply so many characters. Rhino131 (talk) 18:41, 17 August 2011 (UTC)

Apart from the Lisa's Rival episode does the character ever have any other speaking roles? because according to the Simpsons Wiki it says she is voiced by Pamela Hayden in subsequent appearances but it does not list the subsequent appearances Eopsid (talk) 20:26, 17 August 2011 (UTC)

I can honestly not remember her saying anything out of Lisa's Rival. She is usually seen hanging out with the other girls, so I suppose she could have had a small line such as "ok" or "yes" where she reacts to the other girls. The Simpsons Wiki, however, is not a reliable source for anything. --Maitch (talk) 15:01, 18 August 2011 (UTC)

She also appears on the episode summary for the twenty-first season episodeStealing First Base. I was about to move to the one time characters list as no one other than me is against however in light of this discovery I have had second thoughts. Eopsid (talk) 11:34, 25 August 2011 (UTC)

Well the only thing that episode summary says is that two characters makes a reference to Alison Taylor - not that Alison Taylor plays any role in the episode. That is hardly important. --Maitch (talk) 11:46, 25 August 2011 (UTC)
It does make her more of a recurring character than I previously thought. Eopsid (talk) 12:02, 25 August 2011 (UTC)
I have moved her now. I believe, I have given enough evidence and I'm supported by other editors. --Maitch (talk) 07:41, 20 September 2011 (UTC)

Rich Texan

The character name as really Rich Texan. His daughter's name as Paris Texan, not Paris O'Hara, so his surname is Texan.--HeinzDoofenshmirtz (talk) 10:00, 25 August 2011 (UTC)

His real name his been stated in the show as being Colonel Antoine "Tex" O'Hara. You need to provide a reliable source if you want to contradict the show itself. Inferring just from the name of his daughter is original research because it's synthesizes a position not supported by the source itself. "Paris Texan" could be a nickname as well for example. Also, please note that if you see that people previously disagreed with a certain edit, you should first discuss it on the talk page, not revert it and then justify your revert on the talk page. This behavior leads to edit-warring and is highly discouraged. Regards SoWhy 10:31, 25 August 2011 (UTC)
I reverted your (HeinzDoofenshmirtz) edit. Please could you show reliable sources for what you write (it could be the episode itself), then you can restore it. Also daughters dont necessarily have to have the same surname as their father. Many characters in the simpsons also have contradictory surnames in different episodes eg Cletus's surname has been both Del Roy and Spuckler. Eopsid (talk) 11:22, 25 August 2011 (UTC)

Merging some character bios from Simpson Family

Recently recurring characters who are written about on articles which aren't this one have been moved to this article. However one article still contains info about recurring characters who aren't on this list. that article is Simpson Family. Only a number of charcters written about on that article i think deserve to be listed here these characters, in no particular order, are:

  • Jacqueline Bouvier
  • Clancy Bouvier
  • Ling Bouvier
  • Amber Simpson
  • Herbert Powell

I think these should be merged just so wikipedia's coverage of recurring simpsons characters is more consistent with all characters either being listed on this article or having their own article. Eopsid (talk) 11:23, 18 September 2011 (UTC)

I'm all for consistency, but what exactly are you proposing? If we move the characters from the family article, we would also have to delete/redirect the family article, which is currently a GA. Is that what you want or do you want to duplicate the information? --Maitch (talk) 10:55, 19 September 2011 (UTC)
We could have the bits about those five characters written about on the list of recurring characters and the Simpson Family article bits about them give links to the bits written about them on this article. Similiar to how the bits in the Simpson Family which are on about charcters with articles give links to their individual articles but give shortened versions of info about the character. So they have the shortened version there but a longer more in depth here. Or we could write shortened versions of the characters bios on this page with a bit above saying Main Article: Simpson Family#Jacqueline Bouvier to get them there. This is pretty much the opposite of the first idea. It is duplication but the Simpson Family article already does that with short bits written about the characters who already have articles. Eopsid (talk) 11:41, 19 September 2011 (UTC)
I have thought about it and I think we should make this list the "main" list and the family the summary, although most of the bios cannot be shortened further.--Maitch (talk) 07:44, 20 September 2011 (UTC)

In the episode 'Marge Gamer' at about two minutes or so in, Marge googles her own name, and visible on the screen is a reference to '"Cookie" Kwan' [sic]. This implies that Cookie is not her real name. Worth noting, or not? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.175.39.131 (talk) 19:10, 7 October 2011 (UTC)

Blinky-type three-eyed fish found near nuclear plant

a three-eyed fish was found near a nuclear plant for real in 2011. (according to german hackers felix von leitner and frank rieger)[1] --79.199.207.165 (talk) 21:27, 2 January 2012 (UTC). This Huffington Post article may be a more credible source. --79.199.207.165 (talk) 21:34, 2 January 2012 (UTC)

  1. ^ http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_profilepage&v=PwlqEFTczQg#t=3760s

Üter

Is he from Germany or Switzerland? The article condradicts himself on this. --84.177.254.159 (talk) 21:17, 11 April 2012 (UTC)

I see no mention of Uter's having been the first child eaten in the Halloween episode, "Nightmare Cafeteria". — Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.177.33.164 (talk) 15:17, 21 July 2013 (UTC)

Frank Grimes

no mention of frank grimes AKA grimy? or his son? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.109.106.75 (talk) 08:24, 24 May 2015 (UTC)

Someone needs to add this. —DangerousJXD (talk) 08:52, 24 May 2015 (UTC)
I added Frank Grimes. It needs expansion. —DangerousJXD (talk) 08:59, 24 May 2015 (UTC)
Since he only appeared once, he belongs here only. —DangerousJXD (talk) 07:43, 25 May 2015 (UTC)


Rabbi Krustofski

Can somebody kindly rewrite the biography of this character? The current version is so horribly written and full of broken English, it is illegible.

Bomb319 (talk) 11:55, 20 February 2016 (UTC)

Steve Mobbs sentence

"Steve Mobbs' death is a reference to when Steve Jobs died." I'll just let that statement stink for itself. 98.194.39.86 (talk) 01:40, 9 December 2016 (UTC)

Attribution

Copied content (reference) from Duffman to Oh Yeah (Yello song); see that page's history for attribution 7&6=thirteen (☎) 13:23, 3 January 2017 (UTC)

McBain

I don't get the following thing: since the Simpsons used the name "McBain" first, even if "only" for a minor supporting character, how can the McBain movie people forbid them from continuing to use it...? The Simpsons had it first, right?! BigSteve (talk) 13:13, 30 November 2012 (UTC)

Do we have a reliable source for this even being the case? The article just link to IMDb trivia, which is not reliable. If it is true, then my guess is that Fox never copyrighted the name McBain, the film's producers did, ergo The Simpsons get screwed over despite having the name orignally. Gran2 10:30, 1 December 2012 (UTC)
...Sounds like a likely explanation. BigSteve (talk) 09:47, 2 December 2012 (UTC)
Makes sense. CTF83! 04:21, 5 December 2012 (UTC)
Nope. Precedence precedes registration in copyright, and you can't copyright a name anyway. Also: The Simpsons, including the McBain segments, is formally copyrighted. You're thinking of trademark, and I'm fairly certain the movie company couldn't have used that to prevent The Simpsons from continuing to call an established character "McBain", given the prominent documentation of their precedent. Example: a company can't trademark "David Copperfield" and prevent anyone else from ever publishing the Dickens novel unless they change the name of the main character. But I'm not a lawyer. Laodah 22:23, 7 March 2017 (UTC)

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Frank Grimes 2

Am I the only one who thinks Frank Grimes should have his own page? He is a very notable, prominent, and iconic character who is essential to the Simpsons in many ways, not to mention how often he is associated in the Simpsons merchandise. --Anotymous (talk) 07:56, 27 March 2018 (UTC)

He is popular with fans. But he only appears as the main character in the episode in which he debuted. After that, he is only mentioned a few times. Other more important characters like Martin Prince or Sideshow Mel do not have their own page, so a minor character should not have it. --BrookTheHumming (talk) 12:26, 8 May 2018 (UTC)

Add sections

To make navigation easier, should we create sections to divide the characters? In sections such as "Adults", "Kids", "Animals", and "Fictional characters" (the latter to add Fallout Boy, Happy Little Elves, Poochie, and Radioactive Man somewhere). --BrookTheHumming (talk) 12:53, 8 May 2018 (UTC)

The only problem would be C.H.U.M., who is none of the four things. Maybe the best place for him would be in the "Kids" section. --BrookTheHumming (talk) 13:04, 8 May 2018 (UTC)

Although we can also make a section called "Other characters", with CHUM and God (and in that same section put the subsection of "Fictional characters"). --BrookTheHumming (talk) 13:09, 8 May 2018 (UTC)

Arnie Pye

Isn't there a running joke, namely that the news station refers to the man's helicopter-based segments as "Arnie in the Sky" -- as if they're clueless enough to overlook the obvious "Pye in the Sky"? Or was that used only once? WHPratt (talk) 14:47, 14 June 2018 (UTC)

@WHPratt: You have any reliable source for that? Regards SoWhy 14:54, 14 June 2018 (UTC)
No. It was just a suggestion for further research. WHPratt (talk) 19:47, 14 June 2018 (UTC)

Jimbo, Dolph, and Kearney Age Information

Is someone able to confirm the ages of Jimbo Jones, Dolph Starbeam, and Kearney Zzyzwicz? Their current information imply that they are 18, 17, and 19 years old respectively. While it does sound plausible, the problem is that it is debatable how they are. Their respective articles on the Simpsons Wiki on Wikia/FANDOM imply that they are 16, 14, and 29 years old respectively. Kearney's age information is the most debatable, as his age information on Wikisimpsons implies that he is 23 years old. ― C.Syde (talk | contribs) 07:52, 31 March 2019 (UTC)

Encyclopedic value?

I love the Simpsons as much as the next guy, but I'm not sure this article has encyclopedic value. It would be much more at home in a fan website. Also I think it's too detailed to be useful, but that's beside the point. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Kot8 (talk • contribs) 19:13, 11 July 2019 (UTC)

I agree, Kot8, I don't think it has encyclopedic value.--Jack Upland (talk) 09:34, 23 November 2019 (UTC)

Proposed merge of Dr. Nick

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section. A summary of the conclusions reached follows.
Closed as Merge--Jack Upland (talk) 22:24, 25 November 2019 (UTC)

As discussed at a recent AfD, Dr. Nick is a minor character who doesn't need his own article. I propose it be merged here.--Jack Upland (talk) 19:16, 18 November 2019 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Why does searching stampy bring me here

Almost everybody who says Stampy refers to Joseph Garrett, a YouTuber who’s known under the name stampy. I think that the redirect Stampy should go for Joseph Garrett, not List of recurring the Simpsons characters. Metric Supporter 89 (talk) 21:00, 29 June 2019 (UTC)

The article says that he is known as stampylonghead with Stampy Cat the name of one of his characters. By searching "Stampy" in the search engine, the top results points to Joseph and not the elephant. The two bolded names are redirects to the YouTuber who appears to be more popular than the fictional elephant. Iggy (Swan) (What I've been doing to maintain Wikipedia) 22:56, 25 November 2019 (UTC)

Proposed merge with Snake Jailbird

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section. A summary of the conclusions reached follows.
Merged by Iggy on 11 December 2019.

He is certainly a recurring character but is not as notable as articles such as Mr. Burns or Bart Simpson. He does not have many main roles in most of the episodes he appears in.

In recent times, Hans Moleman was redirected into the article and Otto Mann is currently in discussion as both do not feature as much as the Simpson family members. Iggy (Swan) (What I've been doing to maintain Wikipedia) 22:16, 17 November 2019 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Proposed merge of Dr. Hibbert

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section. A summary of the conclusions reached follows.
Merged by 96.232.112.252 on 26 December 2019

I propose that Dr. Hibbert be merged here. There is no reason for him to have his own article. He can adequately be documented here.--Jack Upland (talk) 09:40, 23 November 2019 (UTC)

Seems large to merge. He has a very important job in the hospital in keeping everyone well but some of the content is currently unsourced. Might as well merge it if the added unsourced content may well be original research, particulary if it came from a fandom Wiki. Iggy (Swan) (What I've been doing to maintain Wikipedia) 22:56, 25 November 2019 (UTC)
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Proposed merge from "Lenny and Carl"

CLOSED
Agree to merging of Lenny and Carl article here per wp:SNOW. Non-Administrative closure-- GenQuest "Talk to Me" 18:44, 17 January 2020 (UTC)

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Another minor recurring characters about which nothing can be said except WP:PLOT summary. Ping editors who commented on merges here recently (User:Iggy the Swan, User:Jack Upland. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 05:49, 11 December 2019 (UTC)

  checkY Merger complete. Done by interested party. GenQuest "Talk to Me" 18:44, 17 January 2020 (UTC)
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Unsourced first or last names of several characters

Several years back an IP user added unsourced first or last names for several characters (Contribs). Some of those have since been removed or corrected. Others however are still present on the page. It would be good if those edits were reviewed and the correctness of their information checked.

This originally came up in a discussion about the first name of Mrs. Muntz on the Tapped Out wiki.

NoWayThisUsernameIsAlreadyOwnedBySomeone (talk) 21:08, 25 January 2020 (UTC)

Merger proposal of Edna Krabappel to here

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section. A summary of the conclusions reached follows.
The consensus was against merging. Rhino131 (talk) 17:31, 7 March 2020 (UTC)

A formal request has been received to merge: Edna Krabappel into List of recurring The Simpsons characters; dated: January 2020. Proposer's Rationale: She is not a series regular, just a recurring character like Dr. Hibbert and Lenny and Carl, which were recently merged too. User:96.232.112.252. Discuss here. GenQuest "Talk to Me" 20:07, 15 January 2020 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Snake not having his own page anymore

Fine, Snake is not that major of a character to have his own page. So why do Troy McClure and Lionel Hutz have their own pages? Yes they were both voiced by the late famous Phil Hartman but regardless of that neither of them have appeared in over 20 years and they're not that iconic. And then there's Mona Simpson, again, nowhere near being an iconic character; she may be the mother of the main character but that doesn't mean she is a main character herself, so why does she have her own page? --Anotymous (talk) 06:50, 19 January 2020 (UTC)

I agree. All those should be merged here.--Jack Upland (talk) 07:45, 19 January 2020 (UTC)

Ok so should we make a start on it? Any admins or whoever got any objections to the three characters I listed above being moved to the recurring characters page?--Anotymous (talk) 08:21, 20 January 2020 (UTC)

See WP:MERGE. You need to follow the same procedure as those above. If there are no objections after a week or so, you can complete the merge.--Jack Upland (talk) 08:25, 20 January 2020 (UTC)

I would caution you against doing this. Having an article is not about the character's importance within the show, but whether there is enough real world information about the character from outside sources to justify an article. You will notice Mona Simpsons is a GA and Try McClure is a FA; that alone should tell you there is no need to merge the articles. Let's just leave the articles we have as is. Rhino131 (talk) 16:34, 20 January 2020 (UTC)

According to WP:N, having independent reliable sources does not mean a topic has to have a standalone article. In the case of those articles most of the sources are Simpsons episodes or DVD commentaries. They are not independent at all.Jack Upland (talk) 04:21, 21 January 2020 (UTC)
If that was an issue it would have been brought up during the GA and FA review. Troy McClure has even been featured on the main page. There actually used to be probably 12-15 more characters with articles, and over the years they have been whittled down to what we have now (which has made this recurring page quite lengthy). It seems to me there is no need to merge entire articles into this page. I would be opposed to any further merges. Rhino131 (talk) 13:53, 21 January 2020 (UTC)
It's totally bonkers for anyone to think merging GAs or FAs into this list is a good idea!Polyamorph (talk) 10:13, 11 March 2020 (UTC)

So Rhino131 if what you're saying is true does that mean all the characters who were recently merged to the recurring pages (Snake, Dr. Nick, Dr. Hibbert, Cletus, Lenny & Carl, Otto) don't have enough real world information from outside sources to each have their own articles? Surely most to all of them do?--Anotymous (talk) 08:00, 22 January 2020 (UTC)

I don't know for sure, but The Simpsons probably has had more written about it than any other TV show, so who knows what information is out there. Let's just not get into the subjective game of character importance and merging existing articles because other characters don't have one. Rhino131 (talk) 15:42, 22 January 2020 (UTC)

Yeah I know, I'm going along with what you're saying, I'm talking about the characters that were recently merged and if we should revert them back to having their own articles?--Anotymous (talk) 03:03, 23 January 2020 (UTC)

I'm not opposed to it (especially Hibbert and Lenny & Carl) although clearly there are others who would be. If they had articles it would have to be more than just a plot summary or else we'd have this same merging conversation again. Troy McClure is a FA because someone took the time to do research and write an informational and useful article. Rhino131 (talk) 14:12, 23 January 2020 (UTC)


Completely agree with Rhino131 here Music Editor 2017 (talk) 12:57, 14 February 2020 (UTC)
Where were all you when we had the merge discussions???--Jack Upland (talk) 09:32, 15 February 2020 (UTC)
Some people don't see things at the time you had the discussion otherwise I would. Keep up the great work though Jack, you're doing a good job here :) Music Editor 2017 (talk) 11:38, 5 March 2020 (UTC)
But it's strange there's so many people now.--Jack Upland (talk) 08:22, 9 March 2020 (UTC)
The merges were all proposed and performed over a short timescale, perhaps if they had been advertised more widely, e.g. at an appropriate wikiproject, they would have got more response. Now users are coming across these articles / this talk page and questioning the merges. This discussion suggests that the local consensus achieved in some of these merge proposals is not representative of the true consensus, especially, as Rhino131 has already suggested, when it comes to articles that would pass WP:GNG.Polyamorph (talk) 15:17, 10 March 2020 (UTC)
  • Comment Many of these merge discussions have only one or two comments, many the same users each time. There does seem to be some resistance to these mergers and I think some wider discussion, perhaps an WP:RFC to garner broader consensus is needed.Polyamorph (talk) 13:52, 7 March 2020 (UTC)
All you have to do is follow Wikipedia:Splitting. There is no need to have an RfC over a merge/split. Of course, if you would like to have an RfC, you can try it, but I think a lot of people will tell you it's inappropriate.--Jack Upland (talk) 08:20, 9 March 2020 (UTC)
WP:BOLD reversion of the merges would also work if new consensus emerges here, especially for those merge discussions with very few contributions. I suggested an RFC only to achieve wider consensus, since your merge discussions achieved little response. But if advertised at appropriate wikiprojects instead, future merges/splits might achieve a wider range of contributions. Polyamorph (talk) 15:17, 10 March 2020 (UTC)

Proposal of illustrated characters

I know the aim is to keep character images to a minimum which I agree completely however in some cases an illustration for the reader is beneficial. For example I felt Cowboy and Sideshow Bob should be illustrated as well as Carl and Lenny simply because of the confusion with characters due to having the same name or always being together. It has been fairly debated with someone who was against them being illustrated however it would be good to debate here if we feel characters on rare occasions should be illustrated.

There are characters that are sometimes beneficial for the reader however if you feel any should be illustrated please give your reasoning as we don't need character images without reason. Thanks :) Music Editor 2017 (talk) 11:56, 5 March 2020 (UTC)

  • Propose: (example) Cowboy and Sideshow Bob (maybe a dual image) due to the same name and Carl and Lenny due to always being together to separate any possible confusion of characters Music Editor 2017 (talk) 11:56, 5 March 2020 (UTC)
I think its beneficial for all characters to have an image if available. Polyamorph (talk) 17:27, 10 March 2020 (UTC)
I agree with this Polyamorph. I had an illustration of Cowboy Bob but someone removed this as they didn't agree with it as well as all the other character illustrations which were on the page, the only one there now is the Jebediah Springfield statue. I do understand how the page can become congested if there's too many character illustrations but I do feel in cases such as Cowboy Bob and Sideshow Bob, Carl and Lenny etc. it's relevant and beneficial for the reader. We have to remember The Simpsons is a huge character based show and when people are using Wikipedia for research they need to be able to distinguish this as they might not be as clued up on the show as others are yet could be writing an important article or something, these characters need to be illustrated in my opinion. Music Editor 2017 (talk) 12:56, 11 March 2020 (UTC)
I do not see a problem with small thumbnail size images to accompany most characters (if possible, fair use will apply). It adds encyclopedic value. I can understand that inundating an article with unnecessary images would be distracting, but one small image to accompany the character descriptions will aid understanding. If the list is too long then that brings us back to the whether previously merged content should be split back to standalone articles.Polyamorph (talk) 13:46, 11 March 2020 (UTC)
This page used to have pictures for every character but they were all taken down because of fair use concerns. It's also why episode pages can't have pictures from the episode. The Jebediah Springfield one can probably stay because it is not from within the show, but others I bet would not be allowed. There is also the cluttering issue. It may become necessary to trim the fat from as many of these character descriptions as possible. Rhino131 (talk) 15:45, 11 March 2020 (UTC)
Completely agree with Polyamorph, this is exactly what I feel also. Music Editor 2017 (talk) 22:39, 11 March 2020 (UTC)
Unfortunately it seems WP:Fair Use would prevent this, but if notable characters were split (back) to their own articles then fair use images could be used there. Polyamorph (talk) 08:53, 12 March 2020 (UTC)
It's such a catch 22 ain't it Polyamorph for articles like this? This is where I feel something could do with looking into when it comes to articles like this. You nailed it when you said about it adding encyclopedic value which a lot of people come to and rely on Wikipedia for research, specially when writing articles however certain things are better illustrated with images such as Cowboy Bob however he's also not a character strong enough to have his own article. There is the illustration of Jebediah Springfield on the page which I don't feel is needed any more or less than the Cowboy Bob situation, the same with Carl and Lenny (who even in the show have been referred to of being mixed up) so I do feel we need some workaround here or there's a flaw in the encyclopedia with situations like this which needs to be proposed in some way which I hope is taken on board. Music Editor 2017 (talk) 12:35, 13 March 2020 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 17:22, 5 June 2020 (UTC)

Radioactive Man

The section "Radioactive Man" reads:

Radioactive Man is a fictional comic book superhero.

All comic book superheroes are fictional. But in this case, the comic book itself is fictional. Should the text be somehow changed to reflect this? JIP | Talk 22:09, 28 September 2020 (UTC)

"Malcolm Sex" listed at Redirects for discussion

A discussion is taking place to address the redirect Malcolm Sex. The discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2021 May 27#Malcolm Sex until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. Hog Farm Talk 03:22, 27 May 2021 (UTC)

"Cecil bob" listed at Redirects for discussion

A discussion is taking place to address the redirect Cecil bob. The discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2021 May 27#Cecil bob until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. Hog Farm Talk 03:26, 27 May 2021 (UTC)

Maxine Monroe, attitude matters almost ...

Haha 195.226.105.183 (talk) 11:30, 8 January 2022 (UTC)

Brunella Pommelhorst

An IP user changed "they" to "Pommelhorst" in the section about Brunella Pommelhorst in this edit. This is certainly a step in the right direction, but wouldn't it be even better to refer to the character as "she" as that's the character's current gender? JIP | Talk 20:31, 1 August 2022 (UTC)

Mrs. Muntz

"She owns a dilapidated house and is depicted as a jailbird, a prostitute, a stripper, et al" Should it not be et cetera? 89.19.88.175 (talk) 21:51, 14 February 2023 (UTC)

"Martina Princess" listed at Redirects for discussion

The redirect Martina Princess has been listed at redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the redirect guidelines. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2023 September 8 § Martina Princess until a consensus is reached. Skynxnex (talk) 01:48, 8 September 2023 (UTC)

""What about the children?! Won't somebody please think of the children!?"" listed at Redirects for discussion

The redirect "What about the children?! Won't somebody please think of the children!?" has been listed at redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the redirect guidelines. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2024 May 18 § "What about the children?! Won't somebody please think of the children!?" until a consensus is reached. Xeroctic (talk) 09:50, 18 May 2024 (UTC)

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