Talk:Killing of Tortuguita
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![]() | On 20 April 2023, it was proposed that this article be moved to Murder of Manuel Esteban Paez Terán. The result of the discussion was WP:SNOW self close. |
Merge and redirect
[edit]WP:BLP1E, WP:CFORK, WP:NOTABLE this easily succeeds at WP:AFD please don't make me go through the trouble of starting a discussion --71.199.188.9 (talk) 71.199.188.9 (talk) 00:35, 24 January 2023 (UTC)
- If you feel so strongly you can nominate it for speedy deletion, see WP:SPEEDY MRN2electricboogaloo (talk) 00:52, 24 January 2023 (UTC)
Contested deletion
[edit]Irrelevant POV-pushing. -- Maddy from Celeste (WAVEDASH) 22:02, 6 May 2023 (UTC) |
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The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
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Inclusive language
[edit]I'm surprised the sentence "Terán was a 26-year old Venezuelan environmental activist. They were non-binary and used they/them pronouns" is allowed in Wikipedia. Specially the word in bold letters. - Joaquin89uy (talk) 23:54, 5 February 2023 (UTC)
- According to Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Gender identity, "They/them pronouns are always acceptable in article space for subjects who have stated that they prefer them." Many of the sources about the person, who didn't become notable until after being killed, describe them as non-binary and preferring they/them pronouns. Part of the notability of the person was that they were a queer environmental activist. The article simply follows the cited sources. Minnemeeples (talk) 00:13, 6 February 2023 (UTC)
- This article quotes the mother as saying, "Manuel loved the forest...It gave them peace. They meditated there." I think it's reasonable to assume, based on that, that "they/them" were the pronouns he preferred. -- Hux (talk) 02:07, 14 March 2023 (UTC)
new sources for article
[edit]Atlanta police release body-camera video from raid after fatal shooting of activist — The Washington Post, Feb. 9, 2023
Atlanta Police Release Body Camera Footage of Activist Killing at 'Cop City' — Vice News, Feb. 9, 2023
Officer in Cop City Bodycam Footage Suggests Fellow Cop Was Shot by Friendly Fire — The Intercept, Feb. 9, 2023
Body-Cam Footage Raises New Questions in Deadly ‘Cop City’ Shooting — The Daily Beast, Feb. 9, 2023
Atlanta Police Release Bodycam Video Amid Growing Outrage over Activist’s Killing and "Cop City" — Democracy Now!, Feb. 9, 2023
Both the Exchange of gunfire and Body camera footage sections need updated, and could possibly be reworked and merged. (Update: looks like someone took care of that.) Cheers! 98.155.8.5 (talk) 17:53, 10 February 2023 (UTC)
First of a Kind Killing?
[edit]This article states that this death was the first of its kind, and cites the Guardian article “first environmental activist killed by police in US history, experts said”
Can we confirm that no other environmental activists have been killed by US law enforcemen? (eg standing rock, historical protests etc) Pxsarkany (talk) 02:33, 13 March 2023 (UTC)
- Don't know how the claim can be confirmed, but I agree it should be discussed further. I would support changing the current wording from "Terán was the first environmental activist to be killed by police in United States history." to "Terán '''is believed to be''' the first environmental activist to be killed by police in United States history.
- StalkerFishy (talk) 20:36, 12 April 2023 (UTC)
Pronouns in quote
[edit]@DigsForWorms: The square brackets are there to indicate that something was changed. Per MOS:GID: Paraphrase, elide, or use square brackets to replace portions of quotations to avoid deadnaming or misgendering, except in rare cases where exact wording cannot be avoided, as where there is a pun on the notable former name, etc.
■ ∃ Madeline ⇔ ∃ Part of me ; 20:13, 25 March 2023 (UTC)
- I think it would be fine if the original quote wording was still there and [their] was added next to "his" but to completely remove the original wording is an issue. DigsForWorms (talk) 20:19, 25 March 2023 (UTC)
- The relevant guideline tells us to
replace portions of quotations to avoid deadnaming or misgendering
, though. ■ ∃ Madeline ⇔ ∃ Part of me ; 20:21, 25 March 2023 (UTC)- I and many others are strictly against editing quotations. We think direct quotations should be stated exactly how they were said regardless of an editor's or reader's feelings (including mine) or their need to correct a mistake. However, I will yield. I have reverted my undoing of your edit. *Tips hat* DigsForWorms (talk) 05:11, 26 March 2023 (UTC)
- The relevant guideline tells us to
Requested move 20 April 2023
[edit]- The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
The result of the move request was: WP:SNOW self close. (closed by non-admin page mover) LilianaUwU (talk / contributions) 03:23, 21 April 2023 (UTC)
Killing of Manuel Esteban Paez Terán → Murder of Manuel Esteban Paez Terán – This is obviously a murder, akin to the murder of George Floyd. Nobody in their right mind sees a bunch of police officers shooting 57 bullets in someone and calls it an accidental killing, as the current title implies. LilianaUwU (talk / contributions) 21:53, 20 April 2023 (UTC)
- Oppose. Per WP:KILLINGS, the appropriate article title for a homicide is "Killing of ..." until there is a conviction. That's why the article Murder of George Floyd was titled Killing of George Floyd until the date of the Derek Chauvin's guilty verdict (April 20, 2021). SilverLocust (talk) 23:15, 20 April 2023 (UTC)
Gunshot Residue
[edit]Why does the lede twice mention gunshot residue wasn't found without mentioning the fact that it was found in subsequent forensic testing? (see: https://www.gpb.org/news/2023/04/28/two-autopsies-of-atlanta-protester-killed-by-police-could-both-be-valid-expert and https://www.fox5atlanta.com/news/autopsy-cop-city-protester-manuel-teran-death-gunshot-powder-residue.amp). 2600:100A:B125:25F:BCF8:FF42:CFC6:8CEA (talk) 22:44, 3 May 2023 (UTC)
- @2600:100A:B125:25F:BCF8:FF42:CFC6:8CEA It looks like it's probably just out date due to the recency (within the last week). Feel free to add it, I'm busy at the moment but when I have time I'll make the correction within a day or two.
- Just keep in mind the presence gunshot residue like most forensic techniques is not foolproof. Especially since they were shot at a somewhat close range so the GSR has several possible sources (although the exact distance is unclear). LoomCreek (talk) 04:49, 4 May 2023 (UTC)
- my initial thought is to simply remove the references to GSR from the lede? 2600:100A:B125:25F:BCF8:FF42:CFC6:8CEA (talk) 09:28, 4 May 2023 (UTC)
- @2600:100A:B125:25F:BCF8:FF42:CFC6:8CEA Okay, sounds good --LoomCreek (talk) 12:20, 4 May 2023 (UTC)
- my initial thought is to simply remove the references to GSR from the lede? 2600:100A:B125:25F:BCF8:FF42:CFC6:8CEA (talk) 09:28, 4 May 2023 (UTC)
2600:1700:80F0:CA0:956E:CF03:721C:F4A2 (talk) 18:20, 29 May 2023 (UTC) The autopsy report states that gunshot residue was "not seen" on his hands. This implies that gunshot residue was merely not visible to the naked eye, which is not substantial evidence either way. (source: https://static.fox5atlanta.com/www.fox5atlanta.com/content/uploads/2023/04/23-0126_Autopsy_Report_with_Body_Detail_Sheets-1.pdf )
- @2600:1700:80F0:CA0:956E:CF03:721C:F4A2 It is definitely important.
- It's context on the amount of residue present. If residue was visible it would be more substantial in terms of the possibility of Teran shooting.
- However small amounts of residue are less conclusive as it's more likely to be from other sources such as nearby gunfire. This is why the two different tests exist. Neither is fully conclusive but a positive on one is more substantial than the other, and they both provide different crucial information. LoomCreek (talk) 22:29, 29 May 2023 (UTC)
- @2600:1700:80F0:CA0:956E:CF03:721C:F4A2 That's why both are listed in the lead for context. LoomCreek (talk) 22:30, 29 May 2023 (UTC)
Were they indigenous?
[edit]I keep hearing them referred to as indigenous, but does anyone have any further information on the subject? And of what first nations (of Venezuela?) origin are they?
https://psr.org/psr-statement-on-the-murder-of-indigenous-forest-defender-manuel-tortuguita-esteban-paez-teran/ 2603:6011:A400:8A82:68AB:CE9F:B627:CC31 (talk) 15:55, 26 June 2023 (UTC)
Timing
[edit]I'm confused. "A handgun and shell casings were located at the scene" is associated with the statement "Forensic ballistic analysis has confirmed that the projectile recovered from the trooper’s wound matches Teran’s handgun." Should not this be mentioned before the statement that "Terán's hands were up at the time of the shooting"? If this is a sequential statement of events, how did Teran’s handgun project a bullet at or before the "time of the shooting"? int21h (talk · contribs · email) 09:44, 29 August 2023 (UTC) int21h (talk · contribs · email) 09:47, 29 August 2023 (UTC)
- As mentioned in the article, the report's analysis have not been released publicly, so we have no way to actually confirm it. Which is why it goes after the publicly released autopsy of wounds in both hands indicating they were up.
- All of these mentions are not sequential but rather claims about the overall event, hopefully that clears things up. - LoomCreek (talk) 16:28, 29 August 2023 (UTC)
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