This is an archive of past discussions about Cookie. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.
I usually call them biscuits. When I was little I called them "bikkies"..... || -- deanos (I'm from Australia) 11:42, Nov 16, 2004 (UTC)
In Australia we occasionally use 'cookie', and 'chocolate chip cookie' I think is universal. If a biscuit has diameter less than about 2cm I'd call it a cookie. -- Special:Contributions/Gtoomey 10:41, 18 Dec 2004 (UTC)
I'm also from Australia and their virtually never called cookies, but rather the slang term bickies, or just biscuits. And have you honestly seen a biscuit or cooking with a diameter under 2cm??? -- Shaizakopf10:32, 4 April 2007 (UTC)
Cookies can also be found in Scotland. All cookies are biscuits however not all biscuits are cookies. Scottish cookies come in all sizes, big (6" diameter) and small (2" diameter). Cookies can be distinguished from other biscuits because they have that highly recognisable cracked surface texture and round slightly irregular shape whereas other biscuits do not. It seems more likely to me that the origin of North American cookies is from the influence of Scottish settlers rather than Persian ones although I suppose that it could be a coincidence. -- Derek Ross | Talk 04:22, May 10, 2005 (UTC)
Aha, an enthusiast! You sound as if you would enjoy http://www.nicecupofteaandasitdown.com/ which, despite the name, is actually about all kinds of biscuits including cookies. -- Derek Ross | Talk 04:27, May 10, 2005 (UTC)
Oh it's making me so hungry. Best. Article. Ever. Somebody should see about getting this featured. -- Anakin23:14, 15 June 2007 (UTC)
Who spells it "cooky"?
I've never heard that. -- 24.67.19.114 05:36, 26 July 2005
Ditto here - never seen it spelled that way. I thought about removing it but m-w.com has it as a variant of cookie, and Amazon search returned at least one Better Crocker book with the word cooky (published 2002) so I guess it's used by SOME people... -- Drunkasian 00:21, 2005-08-02 (UTC)
Never heard of that either; and the "cooky" in the Betty Crocker book seems to be a cute misspelling of "cook", not "cookie". I'm taking it out. -- Matt Yeager 03:36, August 13, 2005 (UTC)
122,000 Google hits, a dictionary entry, and a Better Crocker cookbook all say "cooky", and yet you say "Never heard of that." Wowzers! That is some weird use of the word "never" you have there. I've put it back. -- Dominus20:36, 13 August 2005 (UTC)
Well "Better" Crocker isn't exactly an authority on spelling English words, if this "Cooky" exists, and it's something different to a Cookie, then it needs a separate page or it's just a Typo. -- Zelphi15:40, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
It can't be an alternate spelling, there is no alternate spelling, someone made it up. There's a section later on in this page, the Origin of Cooky should be investigated, be it branding from someone's cook book or common inability to spell Cookie properly.Zelphi17:23, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
Then the dictionaries wrong too, yes it's wrong. American spelling It's not Kooky it's Cookie, damn Americans. -- Zelphi17:01, 23 January 2007 (UTC)
The Oxford English Dictionary, which doesn't just add in random mispellings, doesn't have Cooky, the Y on the end of Cooky incorrectly modifies the sound of the "oo", Betty Crocker has a lot to answer for. -- Zelphi17:12, 23 January 2007 (UTC)
Nope, doesn't change the pronunciation at all. Hear it here: [1] at Merriam-Webster Dictionary. Try using American dictionaries for American spellings, not British ones. -- Rmhermen02:04, 24 January 2007 (UTC)
How does it not effect the pronunciation? Spooky, Kooky, all different to Cookie which is an extension of Cook, which is different in sound to Spook and Kook. The Y alters the pronunciation to Kooky as it modifies the sound of the oo in Cook. It's not an American spelling, some bugger just can't spell. Until someone can identify where it comes from and what it's for, it's not an alternate spelling. I'm only seeing Betty Crocker as the primary alternate speller - making this a branding change, not an actual alternate spelling. -- Zelphi11:19, 27 January 2007 (UTC)
The OED does list "cooky" as an alternative spelling of "cookie". It also gives "cookey". It also has a citation for "cooky" from 1957. A google book search for "cooky" turns up hundreds of other citations. Hope this helps. -- Dominus11:33, 27 January 2007 (UTC)
Spelling could be debatable. I agree that "cooky" seems idiotic (sounds like a 5-year-old's paper) but "spooky" has a -y and "rookie" has an -ie. Perhaps "cookie" is the real incorrect spelling. -- Mooski Magnus01:22, 22 February 2007 (UTC)
I once read a book that spelled it like "cooky" on more than one occasion. -- Codelyoko19313:58, 21 April 2007 (UTC) (Can you tell what the picture is?)
Including "Cooky" as an alternate spelling in this article makes it seems like it is very common. This is an encyclopedia, not a dictionary so we don't need to include every possible spelling. The people who insist on keeping the mention of "cooky" as an alternate spelling should put up a source discussing its prevalence. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.134.5.50 (talk) 14:53, 3 November 2007 (UTC)<! -- Template:UnsignedIP -- > <! -- Autosigned by SineBot -- >
koekje
The Dutch word koekje doesn't really mean little cake, because cake is a little soft, and a koekje is there in a lot of sizes and shapes. I don't know a better translation, but perhaps there should come a description, because this translation is somehow nonsense. -- Effeietsanders21:59, 2 August 2005 (UTC)
Well, since it's the diminutive of koek, it does mean little koek. Don't be tripped up by recent arbitrary specializations of previously generic words. In reality, a cake or koek is any bread stuff that is 'cook'ed. -- 65.6.62.47 (talk) 14:20, 15 November 2008 (UTC)
Recipe?
I think a recipe is in order, for a basic one, the article is quite short and it would be a nice touch. <! -- Hmmmmmmm delicious -- > -- Wolfmankurd 22:26, 8 May 2006
It would be difficult to have a "basic" cookie recipe, as the methods for making cookies are so diverse. Perhaps the best known recipe of a "classic" cookie (at least in America), would be the Nestle Tollhouse recipe found on the back of the Nestle Chocolate Chips package. I do notice that this recipe was not listed internally on the Chocolate-Chip Cookie page, although there is an external link. I'm no expert on copyright and whatnot so I won't make this edit. -- 67.67.197.21804:24, 17 July 2006 (UTC)
In the preferences it notes cookies and small delicious treats I can't remember the actual wording but it's well documented. -- Wolfmankurd 22:26, 8 May 2006
Looking at the custard cream page, it has been suggested that the article be merged with cookie. This is a merge I would veto, as the custard cream is more popularly consumed in the UK than the us and as such would more rightly be merged with biscuits. -- Robbie scarfe 19:16, 31 May 2006
Where did this "soft (possibly cream-filled) bun" stuff come from ? That's not a Scottish cookie. It might possibly be used to describe the Scottish "soft biscuit" -- which is definitely a bun, usable for bacon, hamburgers, etc. -- but not the Scottish cookie which is basically a rough-textured chewy biscuit similar to the American cookie. -- Derek Ross | Talk05:10, 12 August 2006 (UTC)
Hi Derek, I wasn't responsible for the soft bun text in this article. but I can back it up. If I go down to Goodfellow and Steven's or another such bakers of repute and ask for a "plain cookie" what I get is a round slightly sweet bun, very much like an iced bun without the icing. Never seen one cream-filled, but it wouldn't be impossible I'd have thought. Cheers -- Mendor11:37, 23 August 2006 (UTC) (who should really be fixing some vandalism on sco:)
I don't know about other countries, so I'm not saying that this is the only place where it happens, but in China there are soft buns filled with custard. However, they are not considered cookies. Try putting it in a different section. -- Theemianworm (talk) 22:17, 24 December 2007
Yep, I can also back this up. In Scotland (or at least in Edinburgh and St Andrews), when you ask for a 'cream cookie' in a bakers, you get a sweet bun, cut in half and then sandwiched together with fresh cream. Although, this isn't instead of the American choc-chip cookie, but as well as. I'd refer to both as 'cookies'. -- Icecradle (talk) 21:04, 7 January 2008 (UTC)
Classification of cookies
This may be a classification of American cookies but no way is it a classification of Scottish cookies or of UK biscuits. The article starts by saying that they are two names for the same thing but this part of the article proves they are not. -- Derek Ross | Talk05:16, 12 August 2006 (UTC)
Alt spelling "cooky"
There should be something in the article about the alternate spelling "cooky": where/when it was used, if it's still used anywhere, why it was changed, etc. It's spelled that way in certain books (Beverly Cleary, for example, I believe) and I'd like to know what the whole story is. -- Andrew Lenahan - Starblind23:40, 18 October 2006 (UTC)
It was spelled cooky for many years, in the singular. The spelling of cookies remained plural. I have tried to find the exact date it changed but the closest I can come to is the early 1950s. And even after that, it appeared at times. My research into vintage kitchenware and collectibles for my store has led me to believe that Nestle had great influence over the change of the spelling with their chocolate chips for baking. Recipe books and "cooky" presses from the mid 1950s and earlier spell cookie with the "y." -- Killerqueen 30 22:40, 27 October 2008
Though I don't know where or when the spelling "cooky" originated, I do know that the spelling "cookie" has been around in English since the beginning of the 18th century. "ie" is representative of the original Dutch diminutive, and who knows, since that was before the standardized modern Dutch spelling system, maybe "cookie" is how some Dutch people spelled it. Also since it was before a largely standardized English spelling system, it's probably inaccurate to call it an Anglicization per se. Really, "cooky" would be the Anglicization, since it substitutes the English diminutive "y" for the original "ie". -- 65.6.62.47 (talk) 14:13, 15 November 2008 (UTC)
I couldn't come up with any legitimate Google hits for "pasted cookie", so I deleted that bit. "Fried cookie" is a new one to me, but at least it seems to be a real food. The remaining drop/rolled/bar/pressed/etc distinctions are all what I remember learning in home economics class 35 years ago. -- Dr.frog21:02, 27 December 2006 (UTC)
Vandalism
Looking at the article's history page, 29 out of the last 50 edits have been vandalism, with the majority of the remainder reverting the vandals' edits. I think that, given the amount of vandalism occurring, we should protect this page. -- Insane01:09, 10 January 2007 (UTC)
The paragraph, "See also", should also list Voortman Cookies -- a major cookie firm operated by Dutch immigrants in Canada. This list should also be modified so that the entries are all on one level -- thus a "List of brands of UK biscuits (cookies)" is not on the same level as "Oreo". The fight on "cookie" vs "cooky" is absurd. Go on to something substantive ! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 208.63.236.211 (talk) 10:46, 25 February 2007 (UTC).<! -- HagermanBot Auto-Unsigned -- >
Given that only two countries use the term 'cookie' for biscuits as the article suggests in it's opening line .. wouldn't it be common sense to use the name the entire world sans two nations use? Just a suggestion, seems a bit dense that it wound up this way. :P 122.107.65.2 (talk) 03:57, 7 March 2008 (UTC)
Density is what we do! For what it is worth, I disagree with the suggestion to rename. I think the Biscuit article sums up any arguments I could possible make pretty well. We won't even get started on Jaffa Cakes... -- Mdwyer (talk) 17:28, 10 March 2008 (UTC)
This is article is extremely well written; in particular the description section. Congratulations to the editors. -- Aepryus (talk) 18:32, 26 May 2008 (UTC)
This is an archive of past discussions about Cookie. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.
The original (American) English spelling of the Dutch word was "kookie" and was still commonly seen well into the 1960's. We had two cookie jars, in fact; a barrel-shaped white and blue one that said "Cookies" and a rectangular one, designed like a townhouse, with the word "Kookies" on it.
The spelling "cookie" appears to have taken over in the 1970's. I have not seen "kookie" jars since then; only "cookie" jars.
Likewise, there used to be two ways to spell the American tomato-based version of a Southeast-Asian fish sauce called "cat siop": Catsup (pronounced "catch-up") was closer to the original Malaysian word (obviously) and was presumably the original spelling. This spelling was still seen in the 1960's (as were television commercials with Fred McMurray selling Hunt's "catsup"), but has long since been replaced by the newer spelling, ketchup.
This sounds interesting but I'd like to see some evidence of that usage. I just consulted a couple of etymology sources which show "cookie" as early 18th Century and no mention or "kookie". Looking through google news articles and google books (1900-1970) I see no mention of kookie but thousands for cookie. Searching for "kookie jar" only turns up Lolcats. If this was the common spelling of a common word, finding usage would be easy. I wonder if your kookie jar was very regional or perhaps just a pun on the word "kooky". --JGGardiner (talk) 21:01, 25 November 2011 (UTC)
What about "cooky" vs "cookie"? It appears American English switched to "cookie" in the 1960s, however I'd like to see more information about this. Kevink707 (talk) 17:16, 3 December 2018 (UTC)
the only citations in this article are for britannica and merriam-webster. Neither of which go into any kind of detail like the article does. There's some good data here, but where'd it come from? Pete Iriarte (talk) 01:37, 4 March 2009 (UTC)
A standardized definition of the term cookie is needed.....
Krusticki and rosettes are NOT cookies. Theyre at best a pastry. Calling these things cookies would mean that funnel cakes and zeppoles are also cookies, they are not. The way they are made cotradicts the definition of cookies on this page as well as on their respective pages (ex: for rosettes, they are defined as a pastry made with a batter). removal of this "type" of cookie should be considered. If one simply fries cookie dough, that is not a cookie, just as if you boiled a potato it does not make chips. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Vinithehat (talk • contribs) 03:03, 10 October 2009 (UTC)
The information box at the top of the page says that cookies are originally from the USA and Canada, but the section on origins describes how they actually originated in seventh century Persia as well as the path that eventually took them to North America.
I'm far from an expert in cookies, but it's obvious that the information in one of these parts is incorrect (probably the info box). Can someone who actually knows about this verify the information and make the necessary changes, please? 75.64.204.13 (talk) 07:39, 24 October 2009 (UTC)
Smarties?
In the United Kingdom the term cookie often just refers to chocolate chip cookies or a variation (e.g. cookies containing oats,Smarties)
I know of no one that would call smarties either a cookies or biscuits, its a chocolate snack, or do i need to meet new people?62.30.54.79 (talk) 23:51, 13 January 2009 (UTC)
That sense of 'cookie' in the UK tends to refer to a certain type of huge 'biscuit'/'cookie' which is sold in a bag rather than a packet due to the size, and which are softer than the 'biscuits' we normally have. The bag would contain perhaps around three of these cookies, compared to maybe twenty much smaller biscuits in a packet. The Smarties cookies are an example of these. Scatterkeir (talk) 23:47, 17 October 2009 (UTC)
I know it's original research, and we get told off for that here, but I recall seeing both the small cookies and the large cookies, which can vary from being softer/the same/ or harder than a biscuit. Generally, cookies are the things with "bits" in (chocolate chips, "Smarties", fruit and such like) where as (sweet) biscuits are the ones with nothing in or some kind of topping (e.g. chocolate). --91.105.75.183 (talk) 22:36, 30 November 2009 (UTC)
Strange Definition
Wikipedia: "a cookie is a small, flat-baked treat, containing milk, flour, eggs, and sugar, etc."
1. A "treat"? That's very subjective. In the Merriam-Webster's Collegiate Dictionary, a cookie is not a treat but a small cake: it is "a small flat or slightly raised cake".
Yes, I thought "milk" was especially odd. I know of few American cookie recipes that include milk as a crucial ingredient. Butter/shortening is much more ubiquitous. Poiuyt Mantalk08:12, 24 February 2010 (UTC)
Cookies are also known as a Candy or a sweet snack.
Why is it specified that cookies are "always round"? This seems quite odd to me because cookies come in innumerable shapes, that's what we have cookie cutters for, and don't tell me you've never seen square cookies cut from a sheet before. -- 65.6.62.47 (talk) 14:24, 15 November 2008 (UTC)
Weird. I have almost a hundred cookie cutters in a drawer, and very few of them are round. I wonder what the editor would have made of gingerbread men. (Hmm: that change was made by a person that appears to have been cited repeatedly for vandalism, so perhaps it was deliberate nonsense.)
I would just like to throw out that it was indeed deliberate nonsense, the IP is that of a highschool, so it would make sense that it is repeatedly cited for vandalism. Anyway, thanks for changing it back, I hope you don't get any more trouble from them. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.145.108.229 (talk) 06:23, 26 February 2009 (UTC)
For greater clarification, if nothing else, can I suggest that the caption for the NICE biscuit reads "A Nice British biscuit" rather than "A nice British biscuit" - note the capitalised 'N' - as this is the name of the biscuit (possibly pronounced 'neece'), not a description of its (subjective) tastyness! I'd change it myself, but I've only just joined and the page is protected! Opwerty (talk) 18:59, 8 August 2010 (UTC)
I am 38 and Scottish and I've never heard of the supposed Scottish meaning of cookie being a plain bun before, whatever Brittania Online says - given the source I would guess that it was probably once common usage in some part of Scotland at least, but it certainly isn't so now, unless it's used by older people in secret when there's no-one younger within earshot. The only usage I am aware of here is the same as that in England, which is that it is used as part of the name of certain types of 'biscuit' (as we call them) which were partly marketed on their 'American-ness' when introduced here, such as the 'chocolate chip cookie'. Scatterkeir (talk) 23:43, 17 October 2009 (UTC)
I am another Scottish reader who has also never heard the term 'cookie' used for a bun. I have also asked my family members who also have never heard the word cookie being used for a bun. Cookie means a chocolate chip cookie to me aswell. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.69.101.90 (talk) 00:17, 22 October 2010 (UTC)
I am yet another Scottish reader (from Fife) and we used the word all the time when I was wee - usually referring to a selection of buns made using yeast, scones of various kinds, etc, ie generally not including fancy cakes - although it has to be said that was some time ago.81.149.39.214 (talk) 08:31, 29 May 2011 (UTC)
Consensus is that a cookie is not a "plain bun". User 81.149.39.214 stated, "that was some time ago. Consensus however, is not a determining factor. Lacking any references for historical mention or references of "current" use the issue is self settled. Otr500 (talk) 00:09, 28 June 2011 (UTC)
WP:NOTLINK, or not?
Why are we listing manufacturers and brands? While I see that these lists are all to WP articles, it seems out of the spirit of WP:NOTLINK (item 2). I don't see any benefit to WP of having a "List of cookie manufacturers" (i.e. a stand-alone list). As an alternative, if anyone sees value in retaining this information in a more objective way, should we update the company- and brand-articles with categories like Cookie manufacturers and Cookie brands? We do, after all, have similarly specific categories like Chocolatiers and Post Foods brands. ◉ ghoti15:56, 22 May 2012 (UTC)
hello, i am from th hebrew wiki, and i have noticied that that artical is turning me to the hebrew articel about chocleta chip cookie,because the protection, i can not fix this, please, help. 109.186.134.184 (talk) 18:13, 19 December 2012 (UTC)
In the United Kingdom a cookie is a small, flat, baked treat, usually containing fat, flour, eggs and sugar. 'Cookie' however is usaully used to describe Drop cookies exclusively. I'm going to modified the introduction to make it alternative definitions clear. Thanks, Rob (talk) 01:58, 9 April 2013 (UTC)
Australian Usage
Why, in the introduction, is Australia grouped with the United States and Canada? Use of the term in Australia is limited in approximately the same way as in the United Kingdom; a "cookie" is a type of biscuit. 121.45.50.178 (talk) 03:54, 8 October 2012 (UTC)
Agreed, in Australia cookies are referred to as biscuits. Australia should be grouped with the UK, not the US and Canada. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.108.125.16 (talk) 14:15, 27 May 2013 (UTC)
Edit terminology
To change, '...including the United Kingdom, the most common word for this type of treat is biscuit and the term cookie is often used to describe only certain types of cookies.' to, '...including the United Kingdom, the most common word for this type of treat is biscuit and the term cookie is often used to describe only certain types of biscuits.'
Bit of a difficulty. American English refers to them all as cookies while British English calls most biscuits. German Keks links to our biscuit article while the German Platzchen links to Afrikaans Platzchen which seems to mean only Christmas cookies. So without knowing which particular products German calls Platzchen it isn't clear what the links should be. I would think both cookie and biscuit should link to both Kek and Platzchen but Wikidata only allows one to one links (I think). Rmhermen (talk) 07:09, 7 January 2014 (UTC)
The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.
It should also be noted that this is a bit like the case with Avatar. In that case the primary meaning was determined to be the deity despite the fact that there was a popular film of the same name and a well known computing term. Granted the food is not on the same level as a deity but it does show that there is precedence for historical significance to be considered above modern usage.--67.68.30.108 (talk) 22:30, 5 March 2015 (UTC)
Oppose in cases when things are named after other things, it seems wrong for the other things to be disadvantaged. GregKaye23:50, 5 March 2015 (UTC)
Strong opposeWP:SYSTEMATICBIAS ; clearly not evaluating usage outside the internet, or outside the field of internet software (I find it weird this discussion started inside a joke edit request that was closed 3 years ago; April 1 is still a month away) -- 70.51.200.101 (talk) 04:37, 6 March 2015 (UTC)
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.
The English Wikipedia is a international wiki!
This article is written like it is directed at people from Anglo-America. For example 'In the United Kingdom, a cookie is referred to as a biscuit...' is suggesting that the reader is from Anglo-America, it should be written like 'In the United Kingdom, what an American or Canadian would call a cookie is referred to as a biscuit...'. The entire article is written in this way, i recommend either renaming the article 'Cookie (US and Canada)' and possibly creating another article for what other English speaking countries use or correcting the article so that it takes into account other English Speaking countries definitions and is not directed at Anglo-Americans.
I agree here; while for various reasons that have been discussed to death the article should remain titled "cookie", the wording of the article as a whole does not reflect its purpose as an international wiki (though the section the comment above was referring to, I think, has now been altered). For example the use of the word "treat": typing "define treat" into Google specifies it as a N. American word for this type of thing rather than a universally-understood one. Though it's obvious what it means, it still reads a bit awkwardly for those not from NA. Marjoram90 (talk) 21:03, 4 May 2015 (UTC)
Semi-protected edit request on 24 May 2015
This edit request to Cookie has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.
Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. And besides, I doubt that everybody likes cookies. Finding just one person who doesn't would refute that statement! Altamel (talk) 21:53, 24 May 2015 (UTC)
Pointless links
Oatmeal cookie linked from Cookie redirects back to Cookie, which is not only useless but annoying and probably harmful,
users click the link and gain nothing of value. I wanted to read about oatmeal cookies, not read about cookies in general *again*.
the only mention of Oatmeal cookie in the article is in that very link
someone preparing new articles, seeing the link in blue, and not in red may deem it unnecessary to make an "Oatmeal cookie" article as "there is one already". Or alternatively struggle with removing the redirect before writing. (they are surprisingly tenacious against new user attacks - creating a new page is far easier than unwinding a redirect.)
I've been doing some reading and it seems to me that the word "cookie" only became dominant in North America during the 20th century - Nabisco, the National Biscuit Company, is a prime example of this. In 1890 everyone knew a biscuit was a crunchy snack, whereas now Nabisco describes itself as a manufacturer of cookies. Anyone else spotted this or know any more about the history of the word? Gymnophoria (talk) 18:26, 5 October 2015 (UTC)
Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format. — JJMC89 (T·C) 03:09, 29 April 2016 (UTC)
edit request
Can we clean this up "In most English-speaking countries except for the US and Canada, crisp cookies are called biscuits. Chewier biscuits are sometimes called cookies even in the UK.[2] Some cookies may also be named by their shape, such as date squares or bars.
Cookies or biscuits may be mass-produced in factories, made in small bakeries or home-made. Biscuit or cookie variants include sandwich biscuits such as Custard creams, Jammy Dodgers, Bourbons and Oreos, marshmallow or jam and dipping the cookie in chocolate or another sweet coating"
I can't edit this article in its current protected state. But I have a thought that a particular part of the "Description" section is worded a bit inaccurately.
A general theory of cookies may be formulated this way. Despite its descent from cakes and other sweetened breads, the cookie in almost all its forms has abandoned water as a medium for cohesion. Water in cakes serves to make the base (in the case of cakes called "batter"[2]) as thin as possible, which allows the bubbles – responsible for a cake's fluffiness – to form better. In the cookie, the agent of cohesion has become some form of oil. Oils, whether they be in the form of butter, egg yolks, vegetable oils or lard are much more viscous than water and evaporate freely at a much higher temperature than water. Thus a cake made with butter or eggs instead of water is far denser after removal from the oven.
Oils in baked cakes do not behave as soda in the finished result. Rather than evaporating and thickening the mixture, they remain, saturating the bubbles of escaped gases from what little water there might have been in the eggs, if added, and the carbon dioxide released by heating the baking powder. This saturation produces the most texturally attractive feature of the cookie, and indeed all fried foods: crispness saturated with a moisture (namely oil) that does not sink into it.
This is a great description for a cookie, but I don't think it's proper to say that the agent of cohesion is "some form of oil." Butter, egg yolks, liquid oil, and lard are all mentioned as forms of oil. I have never heard of this before. From what I've seen, both in a culinary and a nutritional sense, these items are usually referred to as "fats."
I think most people will interpret oil as only those fat-based items that are fully liquid at room temperature. And I don't think oil, under that definition, is used in cookies very much at all. If I'm not mistaken, that would make a very flat, greasy cookie. Many cookies, at least the ones familiar to me as an American, rely heavily on a mixture of butter and sugar that has been "creamed."
So, what I'm saying is, I think in the quoted section, nearly every instance of "oil" should be replaced with "fat." I'd do it myself if I could.
I think you are correct; these substances are generally called "fats", not "oils".
My complaint with this article goes a little deeper. Looking at the last two paragraphs of the "Description" section, which begin with "A general theory of cookies may be formulated this way", one question springs to mind: Who formulated a "general theory of cookies" this way? If it was the author, then these two paragraphs represent Original Research and violate a major Wikipedia policy. If it was some published authority, other than the author, the article should cite that authority to enable independent verification.
could one site the ingredients label on a packet of cookies? or... a cook book? I guess i'll have to crack open a cook book and find a citation of what defines a cookie. or elves in a tree, whichever is more convenient. Vinithehat (talk) 01:24, 6 March 2010 (UTC)
It's pretty dreadful writing—and I cringe every time I see someone use phrases like "namely," or "in all honesty..." on Wikipedia. The fact that these questions/suggestions above have been ignored for seven years really disappoints me. 2601:140:8302:E260:40D1:A979:1B44:2C3 (talk) 02:01, 19 June 2016 (UTC)
Semi-protected edit request on 5 October 2017
This edit request to Cookie has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.
The article should be labelled 'Biscuit', not Cookie
The wiki says that 'In most English-speaking countries except for the US and Canada, crisp cookies are called biscuits' - so if in all other English speaking countries 'cookies' are called biscuits then surely the US & Canada are exceptions? Therefore it doesn't make much sense that the article's title is the exception. Surely the article should be titled Biscuit instead? Yes, there is already another article labelled 'Biscuit' for the American baked good, but can't we simply relabel that page 'Biscuit (American baked good)' or something similar? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.169.138.146 (talk) 15:07, 13 June 2016 (UTC)
Actually the biscuit article is mostly about those kind of item while the biscuit (bread) article is about the American kind. This article is about all cookies - both hard and soft. The article here also note that the soft ones are called cookies in many places that otherwise use biscuit. Rmhermen (talk) 21:55, 13 June 2016 (UTC)
Actually, because of the fact that the US has such a larger population than all other English-speaking countries in the world, if one analyzes it from the perspective of "number of native English speakers in the world who think X", it's clearly America in the lead, given that 62% of all native English speakers on the planet ARE American.
Sorry, UK. You need to make a lot more babies to win this argument, I'm afraid... :P "Just lay back, and think of England", indeed!
i agree that it should still be called "Cookie." Even though disambiguation pages can and should handle this controversy.
Just a point of information. There are more English speakers in China than any other country. Maybe even than the rest of the world. I see that the wikipedia article on the subject differs with me. Just sayin'... 7&6=thirteen (☎)21:35, 4 November 2017 (UTC)
I anticipated this line of reasoning, which is why I was very careful to insert the word "native" speaker. Sadly, you were less careful in reading it, though! ;) Just sayin'... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 199.59.44.65 (talk) 21:39, 4 November 2017 (UTC)
Also, there aren't nearly that many speakers of English in China, for the record. Most people who claim it are just doing it to be trendy or because it's something that they think reflects well upon them or their employer, etc. The vast, overwhelming majority of them are not actually conversant in the language. I guarantee you that Germany has more actual fluent English speakers than China does. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 199.59.44.65 (talk) 21:41, 4 November 2017 (UTC)
This edit request to Cookie has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.
Add new section that looks like this:
Opinions of the general public
Most people, especially in the United States of America, enjoy cookies. In fact, 95.2% of households in the United States of America consume cookies. However, a select few seem to disagree. According to an interview with a citizen on a public street, "Well, objectively, I really just prefer ice cream."
I don't think this is needed, and I don't think any of our food articles include sections like these. I can't find the primary study for this number, "95.2%", so I have reservations about it's value. The citizen's remark is funny but probably not that encyclopedic :) – Thjarkur(talk)00:58, 15 December 2019 (UTC)
Semi-protected edit request on 3 February 2020
This edit request to Cookie has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.
"Cookies or biscuits may be mass-produced in factories, made in small bakeries or homemade." As opposed to what? One could substitute the word cookie in that sentence with practically any other English noun describing any baked good. It's not a unique statement that applies to a limited number of them. I think the statement is pretty much non-informative and should be removed. SentientParadox (talk) 22:41, 23 August 2018 (UTC)
This edit request to Cookie has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.
I in my anecdotal life experience have never heard one Canadian refer to a cookie as a biscuit I would like this false and libellous statement to be removed. 142.113.124.78 (talk) 01:04, 12 May 2021 (UTC)
I concur with the last statement that for some countries cookies are distinct products from biscuits. In Australia the view is similar to that in the UK in that cookies are a distinctly American product, unlike biscuits. In Australia, cookies are viewed as being softer in texture and often much larger, whereas biscuits are generally harder.
There is an iconic Australian biscuit company, called Arnotts, which was taken over by the American Campbells soup company in 1997. Australian's were so parochial about Arnott's biscuit line that at the time, there was a significant concern that the American parent company would change Arnott's biscuit product line into a cookie line. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bagasseman (talk • contribs) 16:24, 6 December 2009 (UTC)
"The term Biscuit to describe the Cookie has been the cause of debate. In the UK, it is commonly viewed that a 'biscuit' and 'cookie' are two different classifications, not to be used to describe the same food type. [citation needed] In the United Kingdom the term cookie often just refers to chocolate chip cookies or a variation (e.g. cookies containing oats, Smarties)."
I for one am finding it very difficult to find a definition of what a UK Cookie is to provide evidence, but I wouldn't say it was a different classification to a biscuit - it IS a biscuit! In England, a Cookies is a 'type' of biscuit, just as Digestive, Bourbon, Custard Cream and Shortbread is a type of biscuit, albeit a type that comes in a variety of 'fillings' and flavours (usuallly, but not limited to, chocolate chips and/or nuts). They tend to have a 'lighter' (and more absorbant!) texture to many other types of biscuit, and come in a variety of sizes - and pretty much always look something like the cookie seen in the main picture. They are of course NOT defined by how they are packaged, as was implied elsewhere, and many mass-produced brand name cookies are packaged just like other biscuits. Unlike the (often larger) 'fresh baked' cookies you can buy at specialist stores and stalls, which are often soft and/or chewy on the inside inside, mass market cookies are harder and 'crispier'. Opwerty (talk) 18:49, 8 August 2010 (UTC)
I must also add that in the British English, or rather more so in the United Kingdom, there is a difference between a cookie and a biscuit and I believe this should be stated on the page. (Jme Saunders (talk) 14:35, 3 May 2011 (UTC))
Is there a 3rd party source that explains the difference?!!!!
Indeed. I would also like to know when the term cookie came into general use to refer to any biscuit. Nabisco or 'National Biscuit Company' in New Jersey, USA was established in the late 19th Century. They obviously still used the term biscuit for a hard biscuit or cracker product. So when and why did it change...? J.P.Lon (talk) 14:19, 30 November 2011 (UTC)
(American here) I don't know for certain when and why it changed (or even if it entirely did) but I would guess probably around the mid 20th century; as for the why, I think likely for two different particular causes. And, from my perspective (but other American dialects may be different), American "cookie" is not 100% synonymous with British "biscuit", and English biscuits that are sold here are still labelled "biscuits" (and there are also some American made products that are labelled as biscuits that fit the British definition as biscuit, so that meaning's not completely dead). I attribute it, though, to both the extreme popularity of cookies - of the variety that would be called so even in the UK - in the mid 20th century, when it was a staple for middle class housewives to bake them at home, then subsequently the American biscuit companies jumped on the bandwagon and started selling packaged cookies mass produced. That, and also around the same time the rise in popularity of the Southern biscuit, largely thanks to Kentucky Fried Chicken, which in British parlance are more like scones than biscuits (though they're not exactly the same thing as a scone, but similar). Firejuggler86 (talk) 20:53, 11 June 2021 (UTC)
As someone who lives in South Africa, I can say that the statement regarding the meaning of the word cookie in South African English is false - it is not used to refer to cupcakes at all. I can only surmise that the confusion arose because koek is Afrikaans for cake, and thus koekie, the dimunitive form, could be used to refer to a cupcake. However, koekie does not translate to cookie, thus this statement is false. I think there is little distinction in South African English between biscuit and cookie as far as I am aware. Ancalagon ZA (talk) 13:13, 17 July 2012 (UTC)
"The American use is derived from Dutch koekje "little cake," which is a diminutive of "koek" ("cake"), which came from the Middle Dutch word "koke".[6] Another claim is that the American name derives from the Dutch word koekje or more precisely its informal, dialect variant koekie[7] which means little cake, and arrived in American English with the Dutch settlement of New Netherland, in the early 1600s.[8]"
Never heard of it in 40+ years. Are we sure it's English? The word "cookie" is hardly ever used in English (they're biscuits) except for American-style chocolate-chip ones. Equinox◑23:58, 3 May 2023 (UTC)
The Etymology section needs cleaned up
The Etymology section is very short and repetitive. The origin from Dutch is mentioned twice, but differently within two sentences.
Moved to Wikidata interwiki conflicts
Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. And besides, I doubt that everybody likes cookies. Finding just one person who doesn't would refute that statement! Altamel (talk) 21:53, 24 May 2015 (UTC)
Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format. — JJMC89 (T·C) 03:09, 29 April 2016 (UTC)
