Talk:2013 Washington, Illinois tornado

Requested move 20 August 2024

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Not moved. (closed by non-admin page mover) SilverLocust 💬 06:46, 4 September 2024 (UTC)

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2013 Washington, Illinois tornado → 2013 Washington tornado – more standardized name, confusion with the 2013 EF0 in the suburbs of DC is unlikely, and the event is referred to as "Washington Tornado" on the NWS Central Illinois summary page GeorgeMemulous (talk) 13:58, 20 August 2024 (UTC) — Relisting. Safari Scribe^{Edits! Talk!} 06:22, 28 August 2024 (UTC)

Support, just makes sense Sir MemeGod :D (talk - contribs - created articles) 14:03, 20 August 2024 (UTC)

• Oppose. Tornadoes in Washington (the state) are very much a thing, and the proposed title would confusingly suggest that the article is about a tornado there. Also, the fact that a page specifically about central Illinois omits the word "Illinois" when identifying the tornado is to be expected, but Wikipedia is global and does not have that implicit local context. ╠╣uw [talk] 14:23, 20 August 2024 (UTC)

  Comment Yes, there was at least one tornado in 2013 in Washington State, however I don't think the title would cause confusion there. For Cascadia, see 1972 Portland–Vancouver tornadoes; tornado articles aren't named after the state they occurred in, with a few rare exceptions such as the 1925 Tri-State tornado and the 2021 Western Kentucky tornado. Although, I understand your position, so perhaps a hatnote to List of Washington (state) tornadoes is due. However, since it was easily the most notable tornado in a place named Washington that year, I believe it's worthy of the title of main topic. See also the 2002 La Plata tornado, which didn't take place in La Plata, Argentina, even though Argentina gets tornadoes as well. GeorgeMemulous (talk) 14:51, 20 August 2024 (UTC)

  I don't doubt that the tornado was the most notable one in a place called "Washington" in 2013. I do doubt that most of Wikipedia's world-wide readership, even those familiar with but not experts in tornadoes, would reliably recognize the "Washington" in this case as referring to a small community in central Illinois rather than the US state. (However, if there's clear evidence that they would, I'd be happy to see it.) As such, I just don't think the proposed alternative meets the policy requirements of unambiguously identifying the subject or being sufficiently recognizable, and isn't an improvement over the current title. ╠╣uw [talk] 19:12, 20 August 2024 (UTC)

  See 1997 Jarrell tornado, 2011 Joplin tornado, 2002 Van Wert–Roselms tornado, 1990 Plainfield tornado, 2023 Wynne–Parkin tornado, 2024 Elkhorn–Blair tornado, 2011 Lake Martin tornado, 1930 Montello tornado, 1992 Chandler–Lake Wilson tornado, 2022 Pembroke–Black Creek tornado, 2011 Rainsville tornado, 2011 Smithville tornado, 2011 Hackleburg–Phil Campbell tornado, 2011 Tuscaloosa–Birmingham tornado, 1999 Salt Lake City tornado, 1968 Hansell-Charles City tornado, 2015 Garland tornado, and at least 50 others for why adding the state doesn't really matter that much. Sir MemeGod :D (talk - contribs - created articles) 19:18, 20 August 2024 (UTC)

  I'd like to also add that the 2005 Birmingham tornado didn't take place in Birmingham, Alabama, despite Birmingham, Alabama having even more tornadoes (by a significant amount). It isn't called the 2005 Birmingham, England tornado because the tornado itself is what's important for a title, not its location. If the article had no indication of where the tornado happened (i.e. no mentions in the lede or any hatnotes) I would understand. GeorgeMemulous (talk) 19:27, 20 August 2024 (UTC)

  SirMemeGod: None of those are equivalent to the case we're considering here, in that the title being proposed would confusingly suggest that the tornado occurred in a particular state when it did not. Something like 1999 Salt Lake City tornado is clear, since Salt Lake City is unambiguous. Washington by itself is emphatically not unambiguous. ╠╣uw [talk] 20:37, 20 August 2024 (UTC)

  Please see my above comment; in my view, a tornado is notable as an event in itself independent of its map location, and 2013 Washington tornado is going to redirect here anyway, so a hat note redirect will be necessary either way. GeorgeMemulous (talk) 01:45, 21 August 2024 (UTC)

  See above comment. Sir MemeGod :D (talk - contribs - created articles) 19:53, 27 August 2024 (UTC)

  Comment: Also re sources, it looks like non-local sources include the state: National Weather Service (November 17, 2013: Washington, IL Tornado), Tornado Talk (Washington, IL EF4 Tornado - November 17, 2013), ABC News: (Washington IL tornado ranked as EF-4; victim ID'd), Storm chasers (November 17, 2013 Washington, Illinois Tornado), etc. ╠╣uw [talk] 12:38, 24 August 2024 (UTC)

  Comment NNWX is a blog, TornadoTalk is considered unreliable, the only RSs there are the ARCGis and ABC7. To counter this, here's a list of (reliable) sources without the "IL"

  • https://www.weather.gov/ilx/17nov13-tor2 (Washington Tornado (Tazewell/Woodford Counties) of 11/17/2013))
  • https://www.weather.gov/ilx/17nov13-revisited ("The tornado which moved through Washington")
  • https://www.25newsnow.com/2021/11/18/remembering-washington-tornado-8-years-later/ (Remembering the Washington tornado 8 years later)

  Sir MemeGod :D (talk - contribs - created articles) 19:52, 27 August 2024 (UTC)

  That your NWS source identifies it as the "Washington Tornado (Tazewell/Woodford Counties) of 11/17/2013" suggests that something more than just "Washington" is indeed necessary.

  Also, the sources you're sharing are specifically about central Illinois (the Channel 25 local news in Peoria, and the "Central Illinois" section at weather.gov), so the state being Illinois is naturally assumed and implicit, and doesn't need to be restated. Wikipedia, however, is worldwide — we don’t have that local context.

  Sources that are not explicitly about central Illinois do tend to include "IL" or "Illinois" when referencing the event, presumably because saying only “Washington” would be confusing. For example, the tornado was covered by the Washington Post, Indianapolis Star, New York Times, etc., none of which identify the town simply as "Washington" or the tornado as the "Washington tornado". ╠╣uw [talk] 23:07, 27 August 2024 (UTC)

• Oppose removing the state, which makes this less WP:RECOGNIZABLE. And while I don't really like the rule, the MOS would seem to indicate 2013 Washington, Illinois, tornado. Dekimasuよ! 05:27, 28 August 2024 (UTC)

Note: WikiProject Illinois, WikiProject Severe weather, and WikiProject Weather have been notified of this discussion. Safari Scribe^{Edits! Talk!} 06:23, 28 August 2024 (UTC)

Oppose per @Dekimasu Killuminator (talk) 07:41, 28 August 2024 (UTC)

Oppose for same reasons as above. Jokullmusic 03:29, 30 August 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.