Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Politics/Archive 48

Archive 45

Archive 46

Archive 47

Archive 48

"political parties of minorities"

Hi. I'd be interested to hear what contributors to this WikiProject feel of the categorisation criteria that should be applied to the sub-cats of Category:Political parties of minorities by country. And whether it is self-evident or should be clarified in a WP:CATDESC. I raise this thread following a recent discussion with Gorgonopsi at User talk:Gorgonopsi.

The editor, who has created several such categories (for example Category:Political parties of minorities in Finland) has populated a number of categories with political organisations that, to my view at least, are not parties which represent minority groups. (I don't see, for example, how the "Sustainable Initiative" party is a political party of a minority. Nor does the body/sources/context of the article appear to support this categorisation.) Other examples include adding the "Northern Independence Party" article to Category:Political parties of minorities in United Kingdom. Or (as the group is described in the article) the "right-wing extremist" group Freie Sachsen to Category:Political parties of minorities in Germany.

(Absolutely, for example, the Shetland Movement article should be included in Category:Regionalist parties in the United Kingdom. But, should it also be in Category:Political parties of minorities in United Kingdom? Certainly I don't see why it would be...)

While I have reverted some of these changes, as have other editors like Czello (explaining that people from the North of England aren't a minority group in the North of England, nor are Bavarians in Barvaria or "right-wing extremists" in Saxony), I wonder if the WP:CATDESC for these categories should be made clearer.

I say this as, per the editor's Talk page, it is perhaps not clear (not to everyone anyway) that these categories perhaps shouldn't simply be populated with parties simply "representing one specific group of people". (Happy to be corrected but, to my understanding, not every "specific group of people" is a "minority". Not in the political sense or that seemingly applied in other such categories.)

Thoughts? Do we need clear(er) WP:CATDESCs? Guliolopez (talk) 14:40, 3 October 2024 (UTC)

Gorgonopsi continues to create "Political parties of minorities in [country X]" type categories. And to populate new and existing "parties of minorities" categories with organisations that do not appear to represent minorities and organisations that do not appear to be political parties. As above, I particularly question the classification of regionalist/separatist/nationalist (or fascist) groups as "political parties of minorities". And would welcome input/discussion so that consensus (on whether, for example, (all) indigenous groups are "minorities") can be established. (Ping @Gorgonopsi:, @Czello:, @Yuchitown:, @Soman: for thoughts). Guliolopez (talk) 13:05, 4 October 2024 (UTC)

@Gorgonopsi: please stop adding this category to articles, it's clearly contentious and seems to be being added to articles that aren't about minorities. Please wait for this discussion to conclude first. — Czello ^(music) 13:29, 4 October 2024 (UTC)

Agreed, Gorgonopsi should pause the mass categorization drive and in future be more stringent on the categorization criteria. For example, Category:Diaspora organizations of political parties was clearly not apt for this category. --Soman (talk) 23:41, 4 October 2024 (UTC)

a set of all sets is still a set in itself thus can include itself in it, in most countries native americans are considered minorities. Gorgonopsi (talk) 20:43, 6 October 2024 (UTC)

Hi @Gorgonopsi. How do either of your notes above (about the "set of all sets [being] a set" and indigenous peoples) address the primary concerns raised? Where those concerns are about categorisation being supported by the text/references in the article and also ideally based on a defining characteristic that is used commonly/consistently in reliable sources?

What references, for example, support the classification of the National Democratic Party in Namibia as one which represents a minority or minorities? (The text and references in that article don't appear to support that classification. Nor do, seemingly, the text or refs in any other articles. So what are you relying upon for that classification?) Same goes for the classification of the American Vegetarian Party? Or the (UK) Women's Equality Party. None of these articles appear to refer to representation of minority groups?

What am I (and the several other editors who have questioned and/or reverted these changes) missing? What sources do you, seemingly uniquely, have access to? That I and others do not? Guliolopez (talk) 23:52, 6 October 2024 (UTC)

A minority in a political context doesn't just refer to any group of people that are few in number – they typically refer to ethnic minorities. Even still, I'm not sure what minority the Women's Equality Party represent – women aren't a minority. — Czello ^(music) 07:13, 7 October 2024 (UTC)

Moved from User talk:Gorgonopsi § WP:CATV / WP:ES

 – Guliolopez (talk) 10:25, 8 October 2024 (UTC)

In response to:

• requests to "[p[lease provide a reliable reference which describes the Bavaria Party as representing a minority", Gorgonopsi stated that the following links are "reliable enough for wikipedia https://www.ethnologue.com/language/bar/ [..] https://www.worldometers.info/world-population/germany-population/". Not only do neither of the linked webpages describe the Bavaria Party as a party representing a minority (or even mention the party), they do not even describe Bavarian people/speakers as a minority. Whether in Germany or otherwise. Requiring OR and SYNTH to come to even a remotely related conclusion.
• queries on how "the article/body/references/context support the classification of the National Democratic Party as a "political party of a minority in Namibia"", Gorgonopsi implies that it is covered by the text of the National Democratic Party (Namibia) article, because its text states the party has "its base amongst the Ovambo people implies quite clearly, that it was primarily for their interests". Again, not least given that the Ovambo people are seemingly a majority in Namibia, this doesn't address the concern. Including the request for sources.

To my mind, both of these responses are examples of OR and SYNTH. And suggests that the contributor is classifying (seemingly all) limited-interest groups with those representing "minority groups". (Whether vegetarians, women, secessionists, indigenists, "fascists" or whatever, I do not see that all regionalist or "special interest" parties should automatically be classified as representing a "minority". Not in the political sense. And certainly not according to many of the (re)classified articles. Or the sources which currently support those articles).

Gorgonopsi is encouraged to respond here. So that consensus on approach (involving other interested editors) can be agreed. And not, piecemeal and stand-alone, on own User Talk page. My own opinion is that should only classif political parties within the "political parties of minorities" hierarchy where the body/text/sources clearly and verifiably describe the subject as representing a minority group. And would welcome other thoughts on this position. Guliolopez (talk) 10:25, 8 October 2024 (UTC)

• As I said at CFD this category tree is being applied inappropriately "for example the Australian Equality Party is in the category because they advocated for same-sex marriage and gay rights while Gaza List was in the Austrian category for no apparent reason. Savoy Region Movement is in the French category because it's a regionalist party. In the UK category we have Labour Muslim Network which isn't a political party and Bahrain Freedom Movement which again isn't a political party but an exile organisation. AusLondonder (talk) 12:02, 25 October 2024 (UTC)

Good article reassessment for Stoicism

Stoicism has been nominated for a good article reassessment. If you are interested in the discussion, please participate by adding your comments to the reassessment page. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, the good article status may be removed from the article. Z1720 (talk) 17:04, 27 October 2024 (UTC)

Smart on Crime

The article Smart on Crime could use additional participation regarding the handling of plagiarism allegations. — Rhododendrites ^talk \\ 03:12, 29 October 2024 (UTC)

2024 Trump rally at Madison Square Garden

Would be helpful to get more eyes at this new article:

• 2024 Trump rally at Madison Square Garden

---Another Believer _(Talk) 16:42, 29 October 2024 (UTC)

+ link to another new article about a rally: Donald Trump town hall in Oaks, Pennsylvania ---Another Believer _(Talk) 23:09, 29 October 2024 (UTC)