Talk:Syrian transitional government

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Syrian transitional government article.
This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.

Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic.
New to Wikipedia? Welcome! Learn to edit; get help.

Article policies

Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL

WARNING: ACTIVE COMMUNITY SANCTIONS

The article Syrian transitional government, along with other pages relating to the Syrian Civil War and ISIL, is designated by the community as a contentious topic. The current restrictions are:

Limit of one revert in 24 hours: This article is under WP:1RR (one revert per editor per article per 24-hour period)

Editors who repeatedly or seriously fail to adhere to the purpose of Wikipedia, any expected standards of behaviour, or any normal editorial process may be sanctioned.

Remedy instructions and exemptions

Enforcement procedures:

Violations of any restrictions (excluding 1RR/reverting violations) and other conduct issues should be reported to the administrators' incidents noticeboard. Violations of revert restrictions should be reported to the administrators' edit warring noticeboard.
Editors who violate any listed restrictions may be blocked by any uninvolved administrator, even on a first offense.
An editor must be aware before they can be sanctioned.

With respect to any reverting restrictions:

Edits made solely to enforce any clearly established consensus are exempt from all edit-warring restrictions. In order to be considered "clearly established" the consensus must be proven by prior talk-page discussion.
Edits made which remove or otherwise change any material placed by clearly established consensus, without first obtaining consensus to do so, may be treated in the same manner as clear vandalism.
Clear vandalism of any origin may be reverted without restriction.
Reverts of edits made by anonymous (IP) editors that are not vandalism are exempt from the 1RR but are subject to the usual rules on edit warring. If you are in doubt, contact an administrator for assistance.

If you are unsure if your edit is appropriate, discuss it here on this talk page first. Remember: When in doubt, don't revert!

Syria High‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Syria, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Syria on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.SyriaWikipedia:WikiProject SyriaTemplate:WikiProject SyriaSyria
High	This article has been rated as High-importance on the project's importance scale.

Politics Low‑importance

	Politics portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Politics, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of politics on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.PoliticsWikipedia:WikiProject PoliticsTemplate:WikiProject Politicspolitics
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

External link

Why you delete my external link? It is informative, and therefore good. https://www.pministry.gov.sy/ 47.32.112.104 (talk) 18:53, 8 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I removed it as it points to the previous cabinet. It is still there on that article. Should the website be updated to reflect the new reality on the ground, I will re-add it.Dn9ahx (talk) 23:08, 8 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 9 December 2024

It has been proposed in this section that Syrian transitional government be renamed and moved to Mohammed al-Bashir government.

A bot will list this discussion on the requested moves current discussions subpage within an hour of this tag being placed. The discussion may be closed 7 days after being opened, if consensus has been reached (see the closing instructions). Please base arguments on article title policy, and keep discussion succinct and civil.

Please use {{subst:requested move}}. Do not use {{requested move/dated}} directly.

Links: current log • target log • direct move

Syrian transitional government → Mohammed al-Bashir government – Precedent with articles on other governments generally being titled in a similar manner (e.g. Mohammad Ghazi al-Jalali government), and the government not having an official name. Another alternative would be "Mohammed al-Bashir interim government". The current title is vague and inconsistent with the naming scheme of similar articles. Chessrat ^{(talk, contributions)} 15:54, 9 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Wait till the government is fully formed first Abo Yemen ✉ 15:55, 9 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose The Government will remain transitional. It is not a fully fledged Government. DerEchteJoan (talk) 16:39, 9 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose The transitional government is worthy of an article in and of itself. Once the government is fully formed and a true successor state emerges, a separate article on a specific prime minister's government could be created. Pluma (talk) 16:47, 9 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: WikiProject Syria and WikiProject Politics have been notified of this discussion. Abo Yemen ✉ 16:50, 9 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose transitional governments are always referred to as transitional governments, similar to the Transitional Islamic State of Afghanistan. Great Mercian (talk) 18:57, 9 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comment - I used the title “Syrian transitional government” as a generic description when creating the article as it was not clear at the time who would lead the government or whether it would have an official name. I personally think we should wait a few days before deciding what the long term title should be. The generic name works just fine for now. Dn9ahx (talk) 20:18, 9 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose Proposed title is not consistent with other pages related to transitional governments. Shadowwarrior8 (talk) 21:08, 9 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose It's not yet a full-fledged government but a transitional one, as the name states. Urban Versis 32^KB ⚡ ^{(talk / contribs)} 02:01, 10 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose as per above reasons. It is too early to rename. Zorblin (talk) 05:13, 10 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose This would create ambiguity, since Bashir is also PM of the Salvation Government. I concur with Dn9ahx that this article name is only a placeholder. Nicknimh (talk) 06:09, 10 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Wait DeadlyRampage26 (talk) 09:53, 10 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support transitional government is not officially used.

Panam2014 (talk) 20:21, 10 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support Similar to the article of Mohammad Ghazi al-Jalali government. AimanAbir18plus (talk) 20:31, 10 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Wait There was already a rapid transition from the al-Jalali caretaker government to the al-Bashir transitional government, and we currently have very few sources for cabinet members in the al-Bashir government (with {{fv}}s on several of the would-be ministers' individual pages). In a week or so if the cabinet appears stable, then consider an RM to al-Bashir government. Boud (talk) 22:10, 10 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose, many credible sources called the Syrian transitional government as the Syrian transition. And I think it is best described as such.

https://www.voanews.com/a/syrian-rebels-who-overthrew-assad-name-interim-government-leader/7896304.html

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/syrias-rebels-work-form-government-restore-order-after-assad-ouster-2024-12-10/

But if we do have to change it, the Syrian Interim Government would be my choice, but given that these two article names practically have the same name, I don't think we need to move the article. Randomdudewithinternet (talk) 23:44, 10 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose: The reason that article was named Mohammad Ghazi al-Jalali government was because it was established during the tenure of Bashar al-Assad, not during the collapse of his regime. Therefore, using that as precedent to change the name of it is not prudent. Moreover, the situation is still volatile and Bashir's leadership is definitely not guaranteed.

Also, following precedent, many countries that had similar situations such as Libya and Iraq have articles about their transitional government named based on the words "transitional" not based on the person overseeing the transition.

In my opinion, I think we should wait to see how the situation unfold and react accordingly. However, changing it right now is not the best move. AsaQuathern (talk) 01:53, 11 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support per Chessrat; this is consistent with other articles. Nice4What (talk · contribs) – (Thanks ♥) 17:16, 11 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comment the name of the govt article for when the Baathist Saddam regime fell in iraq is "Iraqi Transitional Government" Abo Yemen ✉ 17:20, 11 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The flag confusion

So why does on the Syria Wikipedia page it still uses no flag yet on the page for the government of Syria it uses the green flag? Natalieeeeeee (talk) 20:32, 9 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

We are waiting for reliable sources and / or official confirmation from the incoming government that the flag is formally in use.Dn9ahx (talk) 20:54, 9 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

At several embassies the old flag has been swapped out

2. this still doesn’t explain why it’s the flag of this page Natalieeeeeee (talk) 21:23, 9 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I agree. The Revolution flag is used by the new Syrian government, so the flag should be on the top of the Syria Wikipedia page. Luke0821 (talk) 01:40, 10 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Because in no govt article was a flag used. (unless the state has no coat of arms) Abo Yemen ✉ 10:45, 10 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The new flag has been observed behind the prime minister while addressing the press. It is also in use by the official X account of the Syrian Ministry of Information. 2803:C600:109:9507:4586:760D:1A97:294E (talk) 15:38, 11 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

see Talk:Syria#Flag discussions Abo Yemen ✉ 15:40, 11 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

To clarify - this article is about the government and not the country. On Wikipedia it is standard practice to use the coat of arms in such articles and sidebars rather than using flags. A flag is usually only used if a country has no coat of arms, seal or other similar emblem. See these examples: Government of the United Kingdom, Federal government of the United States, Government of India, Government of China. I am going to change the infobox template to the "Infobox executive government" template as that will place the emblem at the top and is more informative and visually appealing. Dn9ahx (talk) 15:47, 11 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

yes please do so Abo Yemen ✉ 16:22, 11 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Suggestion for a name change

Maybe we could rename the article to something like "Syrian transitional government (Mohammed Al-Bashir)" or "Syrian transitional government (Mohammed Al-Bashir government)"? Luke0821 (talk) 01:39, 10 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I completely agree with you. 1nter pares (talk) 04:08, 10 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Disagree. The current same is fine, because its descriptive of the government for what it is - a government of transition. TimeEngineer (talk) 13:17, 10 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Poor sourcing for ministers

At the moment, the ministerial table looks like someone is guessing that the Syrian Salvation Government#Seventh cabinet (2024) is being more or less copy/pasted into the transitional government. Maybe that's actually the case, but without sources, this is rather non-verifiable. Boud (talk) 22:29, 10 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Arabic-language sources would, in principle, be OK - WP:NONENGLISH - but ar-Wikipedia doesn't yet seem to be listing these, so maybe there aren't yet many ar-sources either... Boud (talk) 22:32, 10 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

They were added in this edit [1] by Yeagvr, with the explanation that "according to aljazeera & HTS sources the same SSG ministries will hold the role in the transition government." David O. Johnson (talk) 23:18, 10 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

There's a paywalled "Who is who in Syria's first interim government after Assad's fall" Al Monitor unarchived/unarchivable source - not great, but some people might have access. Waiting for OA/archived sources would be more verifiable. Boud (talk) 05:30, 12 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Govt flags

@Ghostantinos see this [2] Abo Yemen ✉ 10:57, 11 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Title

@Zabezt: Please find sources that show that the transitional government in Syria formally refers to itself as the "Syrian Transitional Government" before moving this article. This move has already been tried and reverted once before. –Gluonz^{talk contribs} 15:18, 11 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]