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The Novels WikiProject Newsletter - Issue XIX - December 2007

The December 2007 issue of the Novels WikiProject newsletter has been published. You may read the newsletter, change the format in which future issues will be delivered to you, or unsubscribe from this notification by following the link. Thank you.

This is an automated delivery by KevinalewisBot -- 14:07, 5 December 2007 (UTC)

WikiProject Newsletter n°2

It's been one high aiming month! The French WikiProject and related pages have been aiming high for Christmas - and have received an equal number of presents in return!

Well, that's this issue. Au revoir et à bientôt till the next time, ChrisDHDR (18:52, 9 December 2007 (UTC)).

New York Native

Actually the first two are already inline references, I just listed them separately because I thought they were interesting reading. The third was an external link to the NYPL, so I included all three as external links in a new section. That's enough work for today. It's good enough to avoid deletion, I hope, and as a stub class article. It's really notable, and there are reliable sources. And it will get better as we all work on it, as it does need work (but don't they/we all). — Becksguy (talk) 09:07, 15 December 2007 (UTC)

Willa Cather

Templates, not sure how to answer your question. I have nothing to look at to see what the problem is/was.

Basically templates are ways of coding once and including that code in each article the templates is transcluded. The form being used here makes use of another template to formalise the layout of a navigation table for authors works. But then you probably know all that. :: Kevinalewis : (Talk Page)/(Desk) 13:39, 17 December 2007 (UTC)

reqphoto

hi, just a friendly request to make others work easier. Could you please add one or more subject to any {{reqphoto}} you make. Thanks Traveler100 (talk) 14:49, 29 December 2007 (UTC)

The Novels WikiProject Newsletter - Issue XX - January 2008

The January 2008 issue of the Novels WikiProject newsletter has been published. You may read the newsletter, change the format in which future issues will be delivered to you, or unsubscribe from this notification by following the link. Thank you.

This is an automated delivery by KevinalewisBot -- 14:52, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

Miss Julie

She's under the weather - or under something anyway - from what I hear. I think Gopher and Isaac are going to have to step in and put something together. Feel like giving me a hand? -- SatyrTN (talk / contribs) 17:49, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

Miss Julie and the others are all characters from the sit com The Love Boat. Miss Julie is also the alter ego of the person who usually writes the newsletter. Aleta (Sing) 20:02, 9 January 2008 (UTC)
You're welcome.  :) I don't watch tv now either (unless staying at someone else's house). It ran back in the late 70's - mid 80's. Aleta (Sing) 20:07, 9 January 2008 (UTC)
Thanks, Aleta - I don't watch any TV these days except Heroes and Torchwood. Love Boat is archaic by contrast, but still quite campy :) Anyway - feel free to pitch in on the Newsletter if you want. -- SatyrTN (talk / contribs) 15:26, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

Pictures of Apple River, Illinois

Hi Zigzig20s! I added two pictures from a recent trip and deleted your request on the talk page. I may continue adding my own pics to articles, but would welcome some feedback first. Regards, gidonb (talk) 02:07, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

Photo of something?

Was I supposed to take a photo of someone for you? --Moni3 (talk) 15:33, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

Luhan, etc.

WP:AGF, k?

I'm offended by several of your recent actions. First, on Talk:Mabel Dodge Luhan I described exactly what I was thinking and why I'd removed the information. I also asked, right there, that if I was incorrect to please re-add the information. I do make mistakes, and I don't mind being corrected. Histrionics like "if we decide not to include books, then it will be extremely difficult to reference anything at all" do not help make a better encyclopedia.

Which brings me to your post on WT:LGBT. If you have a problem with a change I've made to an article, the article's talk page is the place to discuss it. If you still think I'm incorrect, feel free to bring it to *my* talk page. Making what borders on WP:ATTACKs on WT:LGBT does not help better any article.

You and I (until now) have had a pretty good working relationship. I would have thought you'd feel comfortable asking me why I did something directly rather than trying to make me feel bad by slamming me on the project board. -- SatyrTN (talk / contribs) 21:40, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

Hmph. <sniff>. <hair toss, eyelash batting> Sigh.
I suppose I might be persuaded to think about giving you a second chance.
Maybe.
=D
As I mentioned, I don't mind the reference - but my Google search implied there wasn't much there. If Faderman says Luhan's a lesbian (or bisexual) or however it's put, feel free to add the info back :) I won't stand in your way - I'll probably wave pom-poms! =D -- SatyrTN (talk / contribs) 22:15, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

Tommy, the Unsentimental

Hi, you recently created a page at Tommy, the Unsentimental which was a copy of A Night at Greenway Court. Next time, there is no need to copy the article. If you wish, you can redirect to the article by placing the syntax #REDIRECT [[A Night at Greenway Court]] in the article. I have taken the liberty of redirecting the article for you. Cheers! Redfarmer (talk) 11:26, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

History is still valid on it. It was an exact copy of A Night at Greenway Court. To go to the page without redirecting, click here. Redfarmer (talk) 11:33, 17 January 2008 (UTC)
Ah, I see what confused me. You had the wrong title in the header. I corrected it. Cheers and sorry for the confusion! Redfarmer (talk) 11:36, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

LGBT WikiProject Newsletter

Delivered sometime in January 2008 (UTC). SatyrBot (talk) 23:59, 19 January 2008 (UTC)

Eric Hermannson's Soul

Agreed. I have removed the tag. But the best form of defense in this cases is to demonstrate or argue notability in the article itself. So if you can find and real world material on reception, awards etc and referencing please do add it. :: Kevinalewis : (Talk Page)/(Desk) 09:10, 21 January 2008 (UTC)

Novels Collaboration of the Month

You supported Rabbit, Run, which has been selected as the Novels WikiProject's new Collaboration of the Month. Please help improve this article towards featured article standard. :: Kevinalewis : (Talk Page)/(Desk) 16:06, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

The Novels WikiProject Newsletter - Issue XXI - February 2008

The February 2008 issue of the Novels WikiProject newsletter has been published. You may read the newsletter, change the format in which future issues will be delivered to you, or unsubscribe from this notification by following the link. Thank you.

This is an automated delivery by KevinalewisBot --12:27, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

University of Provence

Regarding your question, the text I deleted was: "Mazarine Pingeot, former French President François Mitterrand's illegitimate daughter, is a lecturer at the University of Provence Aix-Marseille I." I have no doubt that Mme Pingeot is a graduate teaching fellow at the university, while she works on her doctorate. However, I am sure there are many distinguished faculty at the university, who are known for their contributions to scholarship and learning. To cite her as one of the principal people worthy of note, and essentially because of the "illegitimacy" of her birth to a former president, is to lose a sense of proportion, relevance, and appropriateness. MyPOV (talk) 01:00, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

Anthony Hope

I noticed that you have edited Anthony Hope. If you are still interested in that article, please have a look at the recent changes I have made. Any additions or clarifications would be most welcome. Thanks! BrainyBabe (talk) 18:59, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

LGBT WikiProject Newsletter

Delivered by SatyrBot around 17:14, 3 March 2008 (UTC) SatyrBot (talk) 18:03, 3 March 2008 (UTC)

The Novels WikiProject Newsletter - Issue XXII - March 2008

The March 2008 issue of the Novels WikiProject newsletter has been published. You may read the newsletter, change the format in which future issues will be delivered to you, or unsubscribe from this notification by following the link. Thank you. This is an automated delivery by KevinalewisBot --18:11, 7 March 2008 (UTC)

WikiProject Novels - 1st Coordinators Election

An election has been proposed and has been set up for this project. Description of the roles etc., can be found at Wikipedia:WikiProject Novels/Coordinators. If you wish to stand, enter your candidacy before the end of March and ask your questions of anyone already standing at Wikipedia:WikiProject Novels/Coordinators/May 2008. Voting will start on the 1st April and close at the end of April. The intention is for the appointments to last from May - November 2008. For other details check out the pages or ask. KevinalewisBot (talk) 14:26, 12 March 2008 (UTC)

Hey, Hon! Just FYI - years all by themselves (as in "the movie premiered in 1997") don't get wikilinked, as a general rule. Take a look at MOS:DATE for some info on that. Good to see you around! =D -- SatyrTN (talk / contribs) 15:05, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

Here, second paragraph. That page can be a tad overwhelming :) -- SatyrTN (talk / contribs) 15:22, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

I think only you would be interested in this mini-essay: You asked me to tell you when I photographed small towns

I know you are interested in small towns. I recently went home to Colorado, and was invited to talk to my brother-in-laws high school seniors who he teaches, out in Calhan, Colorado. Some kids are very poor and even hunt for their food and lack running water; other kids are preparing to go to Duke University or the Art Institute of Chicago, if they can find the money. Rob, my sister's husband, is like nobody these kids have met. Handsome, smart, thoughtful, artistic and intellectual, he a true renaissance man: he was the Illinois state champion in football, a typical jock meathead who got a football scholarship for Arizona State University. Then he really got into writing and studying poetry, and worked part time at a gym where he met my sister. When I was at the University of Colorado at Boulder he and my sister both moved to Colorado for post-graduate work; my sister went to law school and he pursued his MFA at the Jack Kerouac School of Disembodied Poetics, a program at the only accredited Buddhist college in the US, Naropa Institute, co-founded by Allen Ginsberg. I met Ginsberg one summer and talked to him about NAMBLA while he peed (he asked me to follow him into the bathroom). I didn't know how important he was then, but I knew he was important enough that it was huge news that he was a proud member, and I asked him about it.

Walking the halls I was struck by how familiar that charged high school air felt. Look at the photo on the secondary education article. I was surprised how comfortable I felt with kids who epitomize God's country (and whose school IP was only used for vandalism, which was funny. Rob, who the kids respect immensely, is openly liberal and defiantly artistic. He told me he once argued passionately with his class after they said the biggest problems facing the country are illegal immigration and gay marriage. He actually told them it's astonishing they focus on what are perhaps the two issues that least affect their well-being. They were super friendly and fascinated at how things work on here. I had no ability to impress them with names: I was unable to conceal my shock that none of them had heard of Martin Scorsese. Rob later told me I was a huge hit, and that some of the kids who talked to me afterwards had been some of his most difficult to reach. Here are some of the pages:

Perhaps more background than you wanted, but I thought you'd like the backstory to the photos; if not, hopefully you skimmed. Write back on MySpace. --David Shankbone 01:49, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

The Novels WikiProject Newsletter - Issue XXIII - April 2008

The April 2008 issue of the Novels WikiProject newsletter has been published. You may read the newsletter, change the format in which future issues will be delivered to you, or unsubscribe from this notification by following the link. Thank you. John Carter (talk) 23:24, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Re: Neighbor Rosicky

I changed the link because the article exists as Neighbour Rosicky; nothing exists under the title Neighbor Rosicky. I'm not sure why, but every literature book and anthology in which I have referenced this story has spelled it according to British English. Maybe a move is necessary regarding the article; it's probably a good discussion to be made. Ashleyy osaurus (talk) 03:32, 21 April 2008 (UTC)

The Novels WikiProject Newsletter - Issue XXIV - May 2008

The May 2008 issue of the Novels WikiProject newsletter has been published. You may read the newsletter, change the format in which future issues will be delivered to you, or unsubscribe from this notification by following the link. Thank you. SteveCrossinBot (talk) 08:26, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

Bieber

Although I am not particularly keen on getting involved in an edit war with you, be aware that you haven't justified what you have done with the Bieber article. I am likely to keep on removing that passage at intervals. It would become acceptable only if you were to specify by whom the Bieber study has been disavowed, a fact that readers of that article are entitled to know. Can't you be bothered supplying it? Skoojal (talk) 06:20, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

Could you please explain your most recent edit to the Bieber article? I'm not sure what your rationale was. Also, thank you for not simply undoing all of my edits. Skoojal (talk) 06:03, 21 May 2008 (UTC)


Huh?

Tasmania a problem? The Tasmania project is basically on hold with probably a minus amount of editors actually working on the project at any one time - there are many stubs that wouldnt pass general WP V, WPN and WP V standards if some malicious ed turned up, and you do that? wheres your agf? you live in iceland or something? Please do not repeat that unless there is some consistency - I hope you do the same for the african or argentinian projects as well perhaps - maybe the monty python project needs it as well ? SatuSuro 23:58, 10 June 2008 (UTC)


No big deal in the end - my bad - just ignore me - one of the admins on tas project has corrected my response - no big deal - apologies if i seemed a little critical SatuSuro


But to do every bloody article - you may realise that some of those arts you have tagged it is literally an impossibility of getting a photo SatuSuro 23:55, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

In 80 years some of the islands you have tagged may have had 10 photos take in in 1934 or something with no one else bothering - to do such a blanket tagging of the tasmania project is odd - i repeat my message from yesterday I hope you do the same for patagonia or africa or something otherwise it seems very irregular - we have very few editors even less mobile eds who even have photos - and frankly I thing you have wasted your time on at least half the tags SatuSuro 00:09, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

Apologies - I am not saying you did something 'wrong' its just the preponderence of geographically challenged eds do leave one thinking about some materials on wikipedia - however for your effort - thanks for doing it - even despite what I have said - cheers SatuSuro 00:53, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

LGBT WikiProject Newsletter

This newsletter was delivered by §hepBot around 16:02, 11 June 2008 (UTC). ShepBot (talk) 16:25, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

A Visitation of Spirits

you can expand the article using google books preview as seen here: Contemporary Black Men's Fiction and Drama, The Queer Renaissance Critical Essays: Gay and Lesbian Writers of Color and Contemporary African American novelists. just be sure to cite each of the books with {{Cite book | author= | authorlink= | coauthors= | title= | date= | publisher= | location= | isbn= | pages=}} The Bookkeeper (of the Occult) 23:40, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

French communes

Hi I see you've been adding a 'ProjectFrance' banner to communes in the Pas-de-Calais (and a photo request too) I've been updating P-de-C communes and using the 'ProjectFrenchcommunes' banner : 

{{WikiProject French communes|class=NA|importance=NA}}

Would you prefer me to add the communes one or would it be better to leave yours? (or for you to use the other ?) Dickie (talk) 08:48, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

Huh

Once again like tasmania - I m going to see my watch list again with your tag splatter through it - some of the articles again are technically unphotographble - expect to get a complain again - are you resident of london or something? it would make sense if a local who knows where the tag is nothing but absurd did it SatuSuro 23:56, 20 June 2008 (UTC) I beg to differ - you were tagging islands that are unreachable in wilderness areas in tasmania - please do not try lakes under any circumstance in western australia most of them are dry - and some supposed hamlets - no such things exist in ausralia you should really leave it to locals work that out SatuSuro 00:03, 21 June 2008 (UTC)

The Novels WikiProject Newsletter - Issue XXV - June 2008

The June 2008 issue of the Novels WikiProject newsletter has been published. You may read the newsletter, change the format in which future issues will be delivered to you, or unsubscribe from this notification by following the link. Thank you. SteveBot (owner) 05:34, 21 June 2008 (UTC)

I think that it was you

who requested a photo from Picuris Pueblo. Most of the Pueblos around here require a camera permit of some sort to take pictures on the pueblo and they usually cost about $20. I have a checkered past posting pictures on wikipedia, many dozens of my pictures of sculpture have been declaired copyright violations and have been removed by other editors and myself. However, if you send me $20 I will get some pictures of the Pueblo or return your $$$$$. The "Ask and you shall receive" of the Bible also works as "Give and you shall receive." Einar aka Carptrash (talk) 23:51, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

It turns out that US Law does not include the right of panorama (or something) and every work of art created after 1923 (or so) is owned by the artist of heirs. A photo is a derivative work - the rights to which are NOT owned by the photographer. I've had several arguments about this and lost them all.

Most NM pueblos have felt (this is my explaination - others might put it differently) exploited by (mostly Anglo) artists for about 100 years now and the camera permit is one way that they have chosen to deal with it. One picture of mine that has managed to survive here is of the statue of Popé taken at the former San Juan Pueblo, now Okay Owinge (but probably spelled differently). That cost me $20, a $15 camera fee and $5 because they did not have change for my twenty. I not too long ago went to a dance a Picuris, but did not take pictures because i am broke and that was not a priority. Life is supposed to be interesting and pretty much always is. Einar aka Carptrash (talk) 00:07, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

Reqphoto Edits

Hi Zigzig20s! I had a look at your contributions and I noticed an awful lot of them are reqphoto tag additions. I wanted to ask why you do this (I'm rather new to wikipedia) and if it wouldn't be more efficient to program a bot for a similar task or propose a general wikipedia directive. Thanks for your help! P.S. Feel free to answer here as I have not yet created a wikipedia account (can't decide on the username :-)). 86.217.166.29 (talk) 11:53, 30 July 2008 (UTC)

Yes, it would be useful if a bot could check that all human settlements (cities, towns, villages, hamlets, neighbourhoods) have either a picture or a reqphoto. The same goes for rivers and so forth. I don't know how to create bots, though.Zigzig20s (talk) 17:19, 30 July 2008 (UTC)
I could try to create one if you want me to, but I'm still not sure of the usefulness of said bot given the work needed to create it. Could you elaborate a bit on why you're posting the reqphoto tags and why it's useful? Wouldn't just writing that "all articles should have photos" somewhere be more reasonable? (Again, sorry if my question displays my utter ignorance of Wikipedia but I'm just starting out :-)). 83.203.125.214 (User talk:83.203.125.214talk) 23:45, 30 July 2008 (UTC)
Pictures of places are useful in terms of the philosophy of geography, which makes sense to me when I correlate that to hermeneutics. Reqphotos are useful because if all places in Nebraska are tagged, someone from there can go through the Nebraska list and add pictures for the places needed.Zigzig20s (talk) 07:57, 31 July 2008 (UTC)
Interesting... However, I do not think this alone justifies the time required to do this, for the moment at least. Besides that, I strongly believe that the hermeneutic interpretation of pictures as a means of understanding the philosophy of geography is an exceedingly outdated one and has furthermore been appropriately debunked by Ewart et al. in a recent paper. As it stands, the argument seems somewhat lacking to me but I have to say that I find some parts of it to be very appealing, if not entirely clear. Could you perhaps expand on your thesis slightly so that I may be able to better grasp some of it subtleties? (Do bear in mind that I am in no way an expert in the field so please be patient with me :-D.) 83.203.125.214 (talk) 17:11, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

Alan Hollinghurst

I've replied to your message on my talk page. Thanks for your concern. Brianreading (talk) 17:58, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

LGBT WikiProject Newsletter (July 2008)

Conversion therapy

Zigzig20s, I have undone your edit to Conversion therapy; nothing is accomplished by adding links to articles that do not exist. Skoojal (talk) 11:43, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

I have undone your edit again. I've given my reasons on my talk page, and I'll give them here too: editors who know how to create articles about these people do not need this encouragement, and people do not know how to do this should never been given such encouragement. In the absence of actual articles about Bergler at all, links to them confuse matters and potentially create trouble, so please don't keep reintroducing them. Skoojal (talk) 00:43, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

Calling all active WP:NOVELS members

WikiProject Novels Roll Call

WikiProject Novels is currently holding a roll call, which we hope to have annually. Your username is listed on the members list, but we are unsure as to which editors are still active within the project. If you still consider yourself an active WP:Novels editor, please add your name back to the Active Members list. Also feel free to join any of our task forces and take a look at the project's Job Centre to get involved!

Next month we will begin the coordinator election selection process. We hope to have more involvement and input this time around! More news will be forthcoming. Thanks, everyone! María (habla conmigo) 14:13, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

WikiProject Novels Newsletter - September 2008

This newsletter was automatically delivered by TinucherianBot (talk) 15:42, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

I'll Take You There

Hi, there was nothing in the article that made that clear, it certainly looked a little "bullet pointy". If these are clear sections that should be referenced, then do so. However it might be better to just embolden them rather than use them as "very" short sub-headings. All in all the article is very short and could do with much expansion. Particularly in out of universe content and referencing. Anyway thanks for your contributions. Collaborative editing is always a tricky business. Regards :: Kevinalewis : (Talk Page)/(Desk) 19:52, 17 September 2008 (UTC)

I see you rpoint about the sections but the article should make that plain, and what I suggest about the way they are shown still stands. "Out of universe" is a way of saying that the perspective of wikipedia articles should be main "real world" not about the "universe" of the story from "within". So real world Reviews, critical comment, bestsellers listings, newspaper comment, scholarly analysis, writing background, publication history and so one i.e. real world material. Some won;t apply yet to this novel but some should. :: Kevinalewis : (Talk Page)/(Desk) 21:37, 17 September 2008 (UTC)
Hello, Zigzig20s. You have new messages at Davemeistermoab's talk page.
You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

Deletion

Sure...I'll have to do it around 19:00 on Sept 25, cause I'm tipsy and headed to bed...just give me the reason u think it should be deleted...just not notable? I'll take care of it at that time tomorrow :) Ctjf83Talk 03:36, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

Ya, I'm in Davenport, are you in Iowa too? and what do u mean by "I was sans the internet for a couple of month"? I'm off to bed now, so I'll respond tomorrow :) Ctjf83Talk 03:48, 25 September 2008 (UTC)
What small towns were you thinking about for pics? Where do you live? Ctjf83Talk 19:22, 25 September 2008 (UTC)
LOL, are you gonna have me drive all over the state?? LOL, I'd prefer close cities. Also, do you still want me to nom that for deletion, looks like a few people oppose it on the talk page. Ctjf83Talk 19:44, 25 September 2008 (UTC)
Ok, look at this map and tell me what close by cities you would like, and what you want pictures of! :) Ctjf83Talk 20:04, 25 September 2008 (UTC)
HAHA, they are both Illinois cities Moline, Illinois, Rock Island, Illinois :-D Right on the border though, so easy to confuse...ya, I can get pics of those with in a week or so. What interest do you have in Iowa cities, for curiosity? Ctjf83Talk 20:28, 25 September 2008 (UTC)
Well there are 3 gay bars on the same street, and one in Rock Island, Illinois, (1 mile across the Mississippi River) so I'd say pretty friendly, the city has protected gays in jobs and such for like 5 years I think since 2003, even before the state of Iowa did it last year (with gender identity), the city also passed a resolution in June supporting the first gay pride picnic here, with 8 out of 10 Aldermen and the liberal mayor singing off on it. So it isn't like San Fran, but it is pretty friendly! :) Ctjf83Talk 20:36, 25 September 2008 (UTC)
HAHA, yes I can take pics, and don't move here! lol, I'm ready to move out of Iowa, I'd love to move to Boystown area in the Lakeview neighborhood of Chicago. Lots of gays!! Ctjf83Talk 18:36, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

Journal of Homosexuality

You're welcome. I added the Journal of Bisexuality article, complete with a sample cover, as well. Now if only they were more affordable for those without institutional access (and many libraries and departments don't have them either, actually). Evolauxia (talk) 04:36, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

The WikiProject Novels Newsletter - October 2008

River Rother (Eastern)

Hi! I note that you have an objection to my proposal to merge the tributaries of this river into one article. I would be interested to hear your reasoning, since I have given you mine Peter Shearan (talk) 06:02, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

Valérie Lemercier

Thanks for the improvements you made to the article on Valérie Lemercier - like yourself, I have been meaning to create the article for a while! I'm going to dig out some references next, I'll see what I can find Thanks for your advice. Tpacw (talk) 23:20, 11 October 2008 (UTC)

Please don't assume that your 'smell test' is100% reliable

In this edit, you removed any mention of it being illegal to die in Le Lavandou, France. In your edit summary, you called it a "preposterous claim" and the reference "bogus". It is true that the reference submitted did not meet WP:RS; it is also true that the material you removed contained no explanation of how such a "preposterous" situation had come about. But it took me less than a minute with Google to verify that yes, indeed, a 2000 bylaw made it illegal to die in Le Lavandou, and while the law itself was absurd, the reason for passing the law (i.e., to draw attention to a problem with cemetery space) was in fact quite logical.

Please don't be so quick to assume that something which seems "preposterous" to you is untrue. -- 65.78.13.238 (talk) 16:02, 26 October 2008 (UTC)

Edits to Black Water (novella)

Hello! While I wasn't signed in (and under the IP 138.16.72.11), I made some additions to this article, which you then moved to the "Literary significance and criticism" section. I believe that my additions belong in the lead of the article, for this reason: they cover several notable aspects of Oates's book, from its real-life inspiration to its critical reception to eventual adaptation into an opera. Aside from its critical reception, none of these facets of the novella belong under the heading "Literary significance and criticism", and none of the facets are detailed enough at this point to merit individual subsections. They're basically a summary of what is notable about Black Water, which (to me) would seem to make the lead an ideal location for them. May I move them back? I'll admit I don't know a lot about wpnovels guidelines; is there something I've missed? -Hobbesy3 (talk) 23:15, 29 October 2008 (UTC)

I looked at Wikipedia:Lead section, and you were right about the fact that my additions should not be in the lead unless they appear later on in the body of the article. However, I have a problem with the fact that the tiny lead does not "stand alone as a concise overview of the article" that "summarize[s] the most important points". (Wikipedia:Lead section) Can I change it to

Black Water is a 1992 novella by Joyce Carol Oates. The novella centers around a car accident involving a young female writer and a United States Senator, a story that has parallels with the 1969 Chappaquiddick incident. Black Water was nominated for several awards and has appeared on lists of Oates's best books. Oates adapted the novella into an opera in 1997.

and move the Opera information into a subsection on "Opera adaptation"?
I'm not sure about John Duffy; it seems unlikely that a bass guitarist would moonlight by writing Joyce Carol Oates operas, doesn't it? Should we hyperlink it to (the nonexistent) John Duffy (composer), or to the composer's site John Duffy? -Hobbesy3 (talk) 00:00, 30 October 2008 (UTC)
btw, my proposed lead is only three sentences long--far less than the "four paragraph" limit laid out in WP:Lead section and (hopefully) more helpful than confusing to a reader. -Hobbesy3 (talk) 00:04, 30 October 2008 (UTC)
I disagree about not mentioning the opera adaptation; it seems to be pretty common practice to mention film/stage adaptations in the leads of book articles--as in the FAs on Candide, The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy, and Sir Gawain and the Green Knight. Perhaps the awards sentence is too vague, but I think the Pulitzer nomination should be mentioned in the lead (it's such a prestigious award, a clear indicator of notability), and don't believe that the mention of "lists" could be rejected as advertising. It's cited by two print publication sources in the Lit. subsection, and it's only a statement on the book's popularity among Oates books--so it's not really much of an advertisement... -Hobbesy3 (talk) 00:17, 30 October 2008 (UTC)
The pages you're citing are much longer, that's why the leads are relatively long as well. I strongly disagree on the opera and list thing - you may mention the Pulitzer nomination, if it's referenced. You know, people are still going to read what you typed when it's in the literary significance section. It will simply make it more intelligible for a cursory reading. I appreaciate your input, but I have to disagree on a lengthy lead.Zigzig20s (talk) 00:24, 30 October 2008 (UTC)
Whatever, I don't care enough to get a third opinion. It's frustrating that you act as if I have the burden of proof - as if I'm giving "input" to a decision you will ultimately make. (I've cited direct quotes from the Wikipedia:lead section page to back up my arguments; you've just written that you "disagree".) -Hobbesy3 (talk) 00:39, 30 October 2008 (UTC)

Felice Picano

Hey there

Why doesn't "Post-Modernist and a Founding Father of Modern Gay Literature" make sense? I'll have to look up my sources to cite it, but I think I remember that being applied to him, or maybe it was to the whole The Violet Quill club of writers, among others. Post-Stonewall gay literature really was different from before Stonewall. Although Postmodernism, or PoMo, is misapplied overly, and means different things to different people, I think. Regards — Becksguy (talk) 14:03, 1 November 2008 (UTC)

The WikiProject Novels Newsletter - November 2008

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