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Dealing with Personal Attacks Positivally

You're really great at dealing with Personal Attacks on a positive attitude. That's never easy for me. — FilmandTVFan28 (talk) 04:33, 19 November 2017 (UTC)

SPLC article

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Please comment on Talk:Monero (cryptocurrency)

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Please comment on Talk:Russian interference in the 2016 United States elections

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ArbCom 2017 election voter message

Hello, EvergreenFir. Voting in the 2017 Arbitration Committee elections is now open until 23.59 on Sunday, 10 December. All users who registered an account before Saturday, 28 October 2017, made at least 150 mainspace edits before Wednesday, 1 November 2017 and are not currently blocked are eligible to vote. Users with alternate accounts may only vote once.

The Arbitration Committee is the panel of editors responsible for conducting the Wikipedia arbitration process. It has the authority to impose binding solutions to disputes between editors, primarily for serious conduct disputes the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the authority to impose site bans, topic bans, editing restrictions, and other measures needed to maintain our editing environment. The arbitration policy describes the Committee's roles and responsibilities in greater detail.

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A thank you for your thank you

I used to do it all the time in 2009, just cleaning off some of the rust. Pewwer42  Talk  19:38, 7 December 2017 (UTC)

Please comment on Talk:Israel

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New Page Reviewer Newsletter

Hello EvergreenFir, thank you for your efforts reviewing new pages!

Backlog update:

  • The new page backlog is currently at 12713 pages. Please consider reviewing even just a few pages each day! If everyone helps out, it will really put a dent in the backlog.
  • Currently the backlog stretches back to March and some pages in the backlog have passed the 90 day Google index point. Please consider reviewing some of them!

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Please comment on Talk:Poutine

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A barnstar for you

Holiday barnstar
You deserve a holiday barnstar, but this snowflake was as close as I could come. And best holiday wishes to you. Thank you for making Wikipedia a better place. 7&6=thirteen (☎) 16:51, 19 December 2017 (UTC)
7&6=thirteen Thank you! EvergreenFir (talk) 17:32, 19 December 2017 (UTC)

Edits for Hamsa

They are sourced. I am disputing their legitimacy, because what they suggest is chronologically illogical, similar to saying a person's son naming their father. Hamsa came first from Mesopotamia, then to Egypt/Jewish/etc cultures, then to Islam. Or Hamsa came from Mesopotamia, then to Jews/Egypt/etc, then Islam sprang out of the regions that were formerly Mesopotamia without interaction with Jews. It is plausible that the word became "hamsa" from contact with Muslims (it appears to be "hamesh" before this based on the talk pages), but it is definitely not plausible that a symbol came from another place possibly thousands of years later. Islam first existed about 1400 years ago, yet it claims to have invented things that predated it apparently. Since the rest of the paragraph disputes the logic of this statement, please wipe it anyway, at least until we establish that these sources have any historicity. 69.161.99.11 (talk) 20:02, 19 December 2017 (UTC)

Post-structuralism

Hi, Evergreen: Can you have a look at Talk:Post-structuralism#Technobabble, and comment if you feel like it? Thanks, Mathglot (talk) 22:21, 19 December 2017 (UTC)

Happy Holidays

Happy Holidays
Wishing you a happy holiday season! Times flies and 2018 is around the corner. Thank you for your contributions. ~ K.e.coffman (talk) 00:17, 21 December 2017 (UTC)

Please comment on Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Formula One

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Happy Holidays

Happy Holidays
From Stave one of Dickens A Christmas Carol

Old Marley was as dead as a door-nail. Mind! I don’t mean to say that I know, of my own knowledge, what there is particularly dead about a door-nail. I might have been inclined, myself, to regard a coffin-nail as the deadest piece of ironmongery in the trade. But the wisdom of our ancestors is in the simile; and my unhallowed hands shall not disturb it, or the Country’s done for. You will therefore permit me to repeat, emphatically, that Marley was as dead as a door-nail.

So you see even Charles was looking for a reliable source :-) Thank you for your contributions to the 'pedia. ~ MarnetteD|Talk 02:31, 24 December 2017 (UTC)

Please comment on Talk:Current members of the United States Senate

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Robert Kagan

  • Glenn Greenwald (March 11, 2007). "Why would any rational person listen to Robert Kagan?". Retrieved 30 December 2017.

What's broke? Seems to work for me. I was filling in the ref. Cheers Jim1138 (talk) 08:03, 30 December 2017 (UTC)

@Jim1138: Sorry for lack of clarity. The user placed the ref inside another citation template ([1]). TBH, based on the title, I assumed it wasn't an appropriate ref and reverted. But the citation itself (not its url) was the issue. EvergreenFir (talk) 08:07, 30 December 2017 (UTC)
Well, actually it wasn't inside another. Think it's worth restoring? Cheers Jim1138 (talk) 08:14, 30 December 2017 (UTC)
@Jim1138: Oh, you're right... sigh. I need to not edit WP while trying to fall asleep. Self-reverted. EvergreenFir (talk) 08:16, 30 December 2017 (UTC)

New Years new page backlog drive

Hello EvergreenFir, thank you for your efforts reviewing new pages!

Announcing the NPP New Year Backlog Drive!

We have done amazing work so far in December to reduce the New Pages Feed backlog by over 3000 articles! Now is the time to capitalise on our momentum and help eliminate the backlog!

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Answer needed for article

So what gender is a man who takes hormones as the article doesnt this question about trannys.

Also why doesnt the article say trannys suffer a serious mental illness? Thats a fact!--ArnoldHimmler (talk) 08:56, 3 January 2018 (UTC)

I have left some advice, or perhaps it is a request, for Arnold on his talkpage. MPS1992 (talk) 09:33, 3 January 2018 (UTC)

Please comment on Talk:Johor Darul Ta'zim F.C.

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7th Guards Mountain Air Assault Division

I have already explained the reason for undoing the edits: InformNapalm is a Pro-Ukrainian website, where there are no confirm words from the article. For evidence, three people (this is in no way confirmed that it was soldiers of this division, and not the usual mercenaries or volunteers). Do you think this a reliable source? 178.169.87.29 (talk) 21:48, 5 January 2018 (UTC)

A response to a question

Going nowhere, as mentioned by Drmies. EvergreenFir (talk) 04:13, 11 January 2018 (UTC)

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

From the talk (diff): "Are you here to improve the article using reliable sources, or spew garage in support of a neo nazi (links above) group?" Think of this as a metaphor: It's okay to properly study a fish without being a fish. The problem is you display that anybody that studies subjects you don't like and doesn't say your opinion of the subject being discussed is the subject being discussed. The fact you bring your own emotional view of people into your academia and assessment of people is purely unacademic because it is anti-research and divisive. I study things from a third person point of view and try not to get in the middle of it (whether or not you think I am the thing is not based on any fact-based hypothesis). Sometimes truth isn't favorable to one argument, sometimes its not favorable both sides of an argument, but by stating those facts it does not in any way make me a "sympathizer" (which is what I presume you're imply by that message).

You are stereotyping me...which is an extremely non-fact based opinion - because you didn't truly try to understand who I am based on any actual data. I hold my views based on what I've seen in real life and gathering data on who the people are (in this case a group you don't like ideologically and emotionally). That doesn't make me the thing you despise because I merely gathered data on it. All I simply did was identify the culture based on fact-based evidence, and what I believe personally has nothing to do with it or that I respect it / like it at all (thats a 3rd-person NPOV). I study African American and Muslim liberation movements the same way, esoteric mystic traditions like Freemasonry and Tantra, organized crime, and world governments... I study just about every single aspect of life the same way and I learn from what the people have to say because learning from my own personal opinion of the thing being discussed is nothing more than a reflection of myself. Who am I to insert myself/my worldview into the world of people that live lifestyles I don't live? [qub/x q;o++a] ++ 06:53, 10 January 2018 (UTC) —QubixQdotta (talk • contribs) 06:53, January 10, 2018 (UTC)‎

@QubixQdotta: you'd be better served addressing the thread on Drmies's talk page than trying to equate my occupation with my Wikipedia editing. Your own comments ([2], [3]) make it abundantly clear to me that you're not editing from a neutral pov or with good faith. I won't comment on your supposed methodology for data collection. EvergreenFir (talk) 08:01, 10 January 2018 (UTC)
@EvergreenFir: Your link to my comment: "You're right except for the white nationalist part. What their actions really represent is working class white people. Then started to work in labor unions with the familia and shit. That's why the vote for the Democratic Party, because they love the unions." You mean the information I got from communicating with people that actively participated in the lifestyle I was studying? There's nothing non-neutral about that. As for the second one, I was talking about the media's dishonesty not your profession. For you to say it was "abunduntantly clear" I was not in good faith makes no sense... what about the completely non-fact based allegation that I am "supporting neo-nazi groups". That clearly violates WP:GOODFAITH. You're clearly trying to tell me I am a nazi because you don't like the fact I don't share your talk-points on the subject. [qub/x q;o++a] ++ 08:32, 10 January 2018 (UTC)
Consider reviewing WP:OR and WP:TRUTH. EvergreenFir (talk) 08:37, 10 January 2018 (UTC)
Oh I've read it, that doesn't change the fact you didn't respond to this half of my statement: For you to say it was "abunduntantly clear" I was not in good faith makes no sense... what about the completely non-fact based allegation that I am "supporting neo-nazi groups". That clearly violates WP:GOODFAITH. You're clearly trying to tell me I am a nazi because you don't like the fact I don't share your talk-points on the subject. I'd like an apology for being called a nazi, especially when my ancestors where slaughtered en masse by Adolf Hitler. [qub/x q;o++a] ++ 09:30, 10 January 2018 (UTC)
I never called you a Nazi. And AGF is not a suicide pact. You were clearly acting in bad faith. EvergreenFir (talk) 18:29, 10 January 2018 (UTC)
You're trying to avoid apologizing to a person who had his ancestors killed in the Holocaust, when you openly said they support Nazism? Are you in denial of how offensive that is? [qub/x q;o++a] ++ 22:57, 10 January 2018 (UTC)
To someone like that, that would indeed be quite offensive as would your comments on the issue of the AB. EvergreenFir (talk) 23:49, 10 January 2018 (UTC)
My ancestors were killed in the Holocaust. You said that your comments would be offensive to someone with that background, and it is extremely offensive to me. I'm not even a white Jew. My ancestors were killed in numbers. I would like an apology. [qub/x q;o++a] ++ 01:11, 11 January 2018 (UTC)
  • QubixQdotta, this is not a forum, and this kind of questioning, this demand for an apology for a presumed insult is going nowhere. EvergreenFir, as much as I value your wisdom, I wish you wouldn't suggest that my talk page is a better place for this kind of discussion; I don't have your kind of patience. Drmies (talk) 02:33, 11 January 2018 (UTC)
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Please comment on Talk:Light rail in Canada

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Transgendered articles

Hi EvergreenFir. I was going to reply at the disruption thread at the Transphobia article, but thought it might be better to explain here. The issue is in the news where myself and foggymaize are from,[4] which lead me to Transgender people in sports. Foggy saw the article and later decided to make some changes. Save was accidentally clicked on in visual editor before a description of the changes was written. I told her to write the description on the talk page instead. This lead to the other articles. Anyway it is not an area I have shown much interest in before (I remember responding to an RFC on whether "his/her" should be used in an article years ago), but the state of that article and others changed my mind. I am not terrible sure on what the policy between husband and wife editors is. I have made it clear at my user page and hers and will do so again at any formalish !votes where we both comment that require closing (RFCs, AFDs, RMs etc). You and Mathglot know, and I have no problem if either of you inform other people you think should also. I know this is a controversial area, so I want to be as open as possible (I edit other controversial areas here so would like to keep some privacy though). AIRcorn (talk) 21:11, 23 December 2017 (UTC)

You've been completely aboveboard about this from the beginning, and done more than due diligence. You could read about conflict of interest at WP:COI if you want to dot all the i's and cross the t's, but I don't think it applies here. Then again, I'm no expert in this area, but hats off for going out of your way to be transparent, which is always a good idea. Happy editing, Mathglot (talk) 04:58, 24 December 2017 (UTC)
@Aircorn: I agree entirely with Mathglot. My gripe at the disruption thread was not aimed at you or Foggy, though perhaps Foggy's edits added to my perception of "a lot of new users". Rather, there are other new accounts like Lucy.Parsons and SheWhoSees who are being referred to (and to be clear, disruption is coming from both "pro-trans" and "pro-radfem" (if you'll forgive the clunky categorization). Your link to the sports think might be part of what's increasing the traffic and editing. I apologise if I come off as curt; there's been a lot of disputes and not-quite-good faith editing on transgender related pages over the years. I know my worldview and biases on this area and do my best to consider views that conflict with my own (deferring to sources, even if I don't personally like what they have to say on the topic)... But I know they're there and likely influence how I see other editors' actions (which is why I'm slow to report things unless it's clear, unambiguous bad faith vandalism or trolling). Tl;Dr - I appreciate you and your efforts here, please don't see me as an obstructionist or "sjw" or what have you. EvergreenFir (talk) 05:32, 24 December 2017 (UTC)
Sorry for the late reply, I am only just getting back to editing after the holidays. I do not think you were curt at all, in fact I understand that it looks bad with all these new accounts. I just wanted to offer a possible explanation, at least form my end, but it may very well be some off site canvassing (the editing style is a bit too different to be socks). It should not really have much effect as in my experience new editors that only come here to push their point of view on one topic area don't last long. My views will of course be somewhat influenced by Foggy's, which are pretty apparent, but I am experienced here in general and also with controversial topics so like to think I have a handle on editing in these areas. I have tried explaining the "truth vs verifiability" mantra that is key to editing here to Foggy and I asked her to consider striking her last comment to you, but in the end she will make her own decisions. I kind of wish she had stuck to bluegrass or other simpler areas longer, though conflict appears in the strangest venues. You both seem more than reasonable and I should have enough contribution history to show I am here for the right reasons. Ideally we can get some decent content up. I am finding the whole "pro-trans" and "pro-radfem" (to use your terms) conflict quite interesting and it is nice to edit out of your comfort zone sometimes. TL:DR No problem. AIRcorn (talk) 05:29, 4 January 2018 (UTC)
One little thing that has confused me though. Why is Gamergate used for discretionary sanctions? I don't recall any transgendered issues there. Wouldn't Chelsea Manning be more appropriate? AIRcorn (talk) 05:37, 4 January 2018 (UTC)
@Aircorn: the "truth vs verifiability" mantra was a hard thing for me to learn too (resulting in a much appreciated humorous note from Iryna Harpy back in 2014). And I understand that learning curve. I'm happy to help how I can in that regard. And I know how controversial areas can be difficult (and I know my own biases there, and try to recognize them as much as possible and assume good faith unless users are clear vandals and posting slurs). Feel free to WP:TROUT me if I even start acting a fool. You certainly have enough contribution history to show you are here for the right reasons (I hope I do as well) and I appreciate your work here!
As for the {{alert}} for what was the "paraphilia/transgender" template, it apparently changed because of a motion seen here (announced here). Basically, in my understanding, Gamergate is more broad and thus covers the transgender issues and thus the old DS are superseded by the Gamergate ones. EvergreenFir (talk) 06:54, 4 January 2018 (UTC)
Aircorn, you misunderstand what sanctions are about; there is no exclusive link to trans issues, and the sanctions could be voted off some day. Sanctions are linked to issues that are so controversial and have sufficient interest among editors here that standard rules like 3RR wouldn't suffice and admins would be running in circles all day just trying to keep a lid on disputes. Sanctions lowers the speed limit on getting a ticket, so to speak, and also lets the cop that pulls you over throw you in the slammer by themself, instead of having to wait for a judge or jury to do it. On the flip side, there are a handful of topic areas subject to sanctions, not just trans or gender issues, and Gamergate is one of them. (It's much becalmed from what it once was, when you could barely utter a peep about it without having ten people jump down your throat about it.) Gamergate has nothing to do with trans issues, although it has everything to do with gender. There's a table with the complete list of Arbcom-sanctioned topics, and I probably have a link to it somewhere, or just look around. Mathglot (talk) 02:57, 11 January 2018 (UTC)
Link to list. Mathglot (talk) 04:10, 11 January 2018 (UTC)
Thanks for the explanation. Unfortunately I have become all too familiar over the last two years with how sanctions and Arbcom enforcement work. It is a massive time sink and generally editors line up on sides and bring up the same arguments over and over again. Even though they eventually worked in that topic area I agree with much of what SMcCandalish says here. I have yet to come across an editor that gets wikipedia so well and provides as thoughtful insight as he does. The community missed a trick not electing him to ArbCom. My confusion was more why it linked to gamergate and not some other more specific target. I get it now. BTW I am happy for this discussion to be used as notice to me that I am editing in an area covered by DS if anyone wants to go to enforcement. As a side note, so far anyway, it is a lot more civilised than editing at GMOs. That may be a low bar though as there was serious thought there about just banning everyone.[5] AIRcorn (talk) 07:11, 11 January 2018 (UTC)

Thank you...

...for reporting Fehgut and getting him indeffed. Well done. Beyond My Ken (talk) 00:32, 14 January 2018 (UTC)

Please comment on Talk:USS Nimitz UFO incident

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Masculinity

Thanks for your message on my talk page. I would remind you that Wikipedia is dedicated to a neutral point of view (https://wiki.riteme.site/wiki/Wikipedia:Neutral_point_of_view). To preserve this, articles should reflect views from both sides of an argument, not just one. Until you can explain to me why Steven Pinker is not a reputable scientist I will continue to make edits in support of viewpoint neutrality. Cleisthenes2 (talk) 05:01, 23 January 2018 (UTC)

@Cleisthenes2: please review WP:EW and WP:BATTLEGROUND. We don't give WP:FALSEBALANCE per NPOV. Bring up your concerns on the article's talk page. Continuing you edit war will likely result in admin action. EvergreenFir (talk) 05:10, 23 January 2018 (UTC)
Whether or not it's false balance is precisely the question. Why did you delete my reference to a Harvard scientist? Continuing that sort of behaviour could result in admin action. Anyway, I've asked Sandeboeuf to look at the dispute and arbitrate. In the meantime, ask yourself why you think my reverts deserve admin action and yours don't. Cleisthenes2 (talk) 05:14, 23 January 2018 (UTC)
@Cleisthenes2: my issue isn't with your addition of Pinker, it's the weasel words. My edit summaries and comment on your talk page should have made that clear. EvergreenFir (talk) 05:31, 23 January 2018 (UTC)
I'm with EvergreenFir on the weasel words, insertion of "claim", "alleged", etc. Also, my reference to a Harvard scientist looks like a simple appeal to authority, and a false one at that. Pinker isn't cited in any of the academic surveys of masculinity that I have read. Inserting a contrary opinion just to have "both sides" represented would just be false balance. —Sangdeboeuf (talk) 09:56, 23 January 2018 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

The Original Barnstar
Thanks for helping Wikipedia be neutral!  Anchorvale T@lk  06:48, 24 January 2018 (UTC)

Please comment on Template talk:Infobox venue

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Thanks!

Thanks for ‘saving’ me when I undid an IP’s edit earlier on. I did not accept the revision and undone it, but a few seconds later a notification stated that an edit I undone was undone. Anchorvale T@lk  09:46, 25 January 2018 (UTC)

Batman

https://wiki.riteme.site/wiki/Batman:_Gotham_by_Gaslight How is it unsourced??? Bad enough that I had to deal with kellymoat and now this???

@108.53.9.75: I gather you're referring to this edit. You did not provide a source to support your edit. Please see WP:SOURCES and WP:V. EvergreenFir (talk) 21:32, 28 January 2018 (UTC)
You just purposely deleted my source. Now I am going to report you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.53.9.75 (talk • contribs)
@108.53.9.75: You can report questionable behavior by editors to WP:ANI, but be careful of WP:BOOMERANGs. EvergreenFir (talk) 21:41, 28 January 2018 (UTC)

Request for removal spam blacklist this website charlies-magazines.com

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Dr Mian Nadeem CEO /Managing director Ayaan products company Hellosialkot77 (talk) 01:51, 30 January 2018 (UTC)

My Edit of Tranny

I appreciate your recognition of "good faith" in my edit. Obviously I'm new around here, but the truth is I found the page thru NPOVN in the first place, so I still should have known better. As for discussing it on the article's own talk page, Should I just copy what I said on NPOVN to that page as well? Seems redundant, but if it helps, that's what I guess I'll do. OwlParty (talk) 02:37, 31 January 2018 (UTC)

Please comment on Talk:2018 Winter Olympics

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Category:Wikipedians who like Black Mirror

Hey! I saw that you edited the article Black Mirror and thought maybe you would be interested in this new user category I created?-🐦Do☭torWho42 (⭐) 10:41, 2 February 2018 (UTC)

Women in Red World Contest

Hi. We're into the last five days of the Women in Red World Contest. There's a new bonus prize of $200 worth of books of your choice to win for creating the most new women biographies between 0:00 on the 26th and 23:59 on 30th November. If you've been contributing to the contest, thank you for your support, we've produced over 2000 articles. If you haven't contributed yet, we would appreciate you taking the time to add entries to our articles achievements list by the end of the month. Thank you, and if participating, good luck with the finale!

Yeni Safak and etc.

Please read this article: Yeni Safak and realize that the source you keep inserting into this highly sensitive article is highly partisan and partial that has a long record of fabrications, falsehoods, anti-Semitic rhetoric, threats towards journalists, anti-American and anti-Western sentiment and has been towing the Erdogan's AKP party line for decades now. Highly partisan, highly partial Turkish sources should not be taken into consideration without questioning them, let alone be edit-warred in without at least looking into them. Étienne Dolet (talk) 04:38, 3 February 2018 (UTC)

Please see WP:BIASED. And Yeni Safak is not the only source. EvergreenFir (talk) 04:43, 3 February 2018 (UTC)
The question here is why are you edit-warring it in when I specifically said that it's partial and unreliable? Do you admit then that you are inserting unreliable sources into the article? And as far as I could see, the Hurriyet article doesn't even say anything about this incident either. Also, keep in mind that Hurriyet is not a shiny 3rd party reliable source either. Turkish sources that don't tow the government line are almost non-existent in Turkey. Turkish sources would call anyone and anything a terrorist, even journalists. So just because Turkish sources call something a terrorist attack, doesn't mean it actually is. That's why we need reliable 3rd party neutral impartial WP:RSs to describe any such matter relating to terrorism in Turkey. Étienne Dolet (talk) 05:00, 3 February 2018 (UTC)
the requirement is that we use reliable sources. You may argue the reliability of a particular source, but hurriyet is to the best of my knowledge considered a reliable source for Wikipedia. Unfortunately, all sources to be scrutinized in the way you are suggesting when it comes to issues of terrorism. U.s. news sources would have an interest in labeling attacks against us interests of terrorism for example. If you feel an entry does not belong on the list, bring it up on the article's talk page. These lists of terrorist attacks are plagued by issues of original research and poor sourcing. I'm sure someone would be interested in giving a third opinion. However, the reasons you are giving do not appear sufficient for at removal in my opinion (WP:BIASED again). EvergreenFir (talk) 05:26, 3 February 2018 (UTC)
EvergreenFir. You are edit-warring in:
  1. Yeni Safak, a highly unreliable and partial news outlet that publishes fringe theories and fabrications every single day.
  2. You are adding Hurriyet which doesn't even talk about the incident in question.
So this isn't a concern about the sources, it's about you verifying them. Hence why I showed up to your TP instead of the article's TP. To put it simply: you are not meeting the WP:BURDEN. Étienne Dolet (talk) 05:33, 3 February 2018 (UTC)
Here are other sources I've found about the incident. Feel free to use them instead of ones you consider less reliable: [6], [7], [8]. EvergreenFir (talk) 05:37, 3 February 2018 (UTC)

Sure. Perhaps there are sources out there. But that wasn’t the point I was making. The sources that were already being edit-warred in the article were not being verified by you. That is all I wanted to say. Étienne Dolet (talk) 05:47, 3 February 2018 (UTC)

@EtienneDolet: I am quite confused. Initially, you claimed the attack wasn't notable as grounds for its removal. Then you questioned the reliability of one of the two sources used. When the other source from Hurriyat was pointed out, you claimed it didn't even address the issue despite its very title being Two civilians killed in PKK attack in Turkey’s southeast. Last, you claim you just wanted to chastise me about not verifying a source, which actually mentions the PKK in its title.
I think your comment that "So just because Turkish sources call something a terrorist attack, doesn't mean it actually is" gets to part of the issue here. Please see WP:TRUTH. But there honestly seems to be a large issue with Turkish topics with your editing here. I know you're aware of the AA2 discretionary sanctions. EvergreenFir (talk) 05:56, 3 February 2018 (UTC)
Yes, one highly unreliable source doesn't make that particular incident WP:DUE, which is why I initially removed it then corrected myself (not that it's not notable, but undue) in the edit-summary of my subsequent edit. Secondly, please just read the Hurriyet article. That article talks about two civilians being killed in the Çınar district of Diyarbakir on the 29th. Yeni Safak talks about an incident that occurred in Şırnak on the 28th. Two different places, two different times. This means that you didn't verify the very sources you were edit-warring into the article. That's gist of all that I'm saying. And yes, there are partisan sources that should be questioned when it concerns "terrorist attacks". Would we use RT to describe a "terrorist attack" by American forces in Syria? It's a dubious claim, yes. But it's been made, which makes it on par with Yeni Safak and the many many other state-runned and pro-AKP news outlets in Erdogan's Turkey. So, at least I am doing my best in verifying them. And I'm not ashamed to say that I have the cleanest record while editing the most contentious topic areas in Wikipedia (i.e. AA2, ARBMAC, ARBAP2, and ARBEE). No sanctions, no blocks. And I've been editing in these topic areas since 2006. So you don't need to remind me of AA2 sanctions, but thanks anyway. Étienne Dolet (talk) 06:18, 3 February 2018 (UTC)
I'm not above admitting when I'm mistaken (usually lol). The Harriyet link had Sirnak in the header and later mentions "Şırnak Govenor’s Office" and a highway explosion. This appeared to me to be supporting the list entry. I'll take your word for it that Çınar is different.
Though I wouldn't use RT based on discussions at RSN, I would use Washington Times or Al Jezzera.
I did notice your clean record (something we share :) ). Just honestly concerned about nationalistic editing in general as it arises frequently I vandalism patrolling. But your record and tenure here speak for themselves.
If there are Turkey/PKK entries you're concerned about on the terrorism lists, I'm happy to review or discuss them. I've been following those pages primarily to watch for OR issues (see various list talk pages or ask NeilN).
Anyway, thanks for engaging and, in part, my bad. EvergreenFir (talk) 06:36, 3 February 2018 (UTC)
Amen. And I'll keep an eye out too. Also, my bad also for being overly reactive. It happens to the best of us. Even us good record people ;) Étienne Dolet (talk) 06:42, 3 February 2018 (UTC)
And just to clarify, the Hurriyet source doesn't talk about construction workers being killed. It just talks about some operation that occurred where PKK members were killed overnight in Şırnak. It happens to be in the same place, but they can be separate events for all that we know. Étienne Dolet (talk) 06:46, 3 February 2018 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Ontario Teacher BFA BEd

Hi, we found an earlier account, hence a new master. Please refile at Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Soulspinr. Thanks.--Bbb23 (talk) 21:27, 4 February 2018 (UTC)

@Bbb23:  Done EvergreenFir (talk) 21:28, 4 February 2018 (UTC)
And fast too. Thanks.--Bbb23 (talk) 21:29, 4 February 2018 (UTC)

Just a heads-up

Hi, EvergreenFir,

Just a heads-up about another user's edits in a topic area we both frequent: I would've welcomed them had you not done so already just before me, and then right after that, I had to add this to their Talk page, concerning some possible malware. I asked about it at Teahouse, and may be going straight to ANI with this. Mathglot (talk) 04:15, 3 February 2018 (UTC)

okay let me know if you need any help EvergreenFir (talk) 04:32, 3 February 2018 (UTC)
Thanks, at this point, I'm just sitting back, and watching the responses, which are kind of interesting. If you're curious, see WP:ANI#Introduction of a malware link into a citation. Mathglot (talk) 07:30, 4 February 2018 (UTC)
And after some twists and turns, it seems to be arriving at an unexpected and somewhat surprising conclusion. I was very uncertain about raising the whole thing in the first place, and am now glad that I did. Mathglot (talk) 21:43, 4 February 2018 (UTC)

Thank you!

The Anti-Vandalism Barnstar
Thank you for looking out for my Talk Page. :) Beauty School Dropout (talk) 23:30, 5 February 2018 (UTC)

New Page Reviewer Newsletter

Hello EvergreenFir, thank you for your efforts in reviewing new pages!
The NPP backlog at the end of the drive with the number of unreviewed articles by creation date. Red is older than 90 days, orange is between 90 and 30 days old, and green is younger than 30 days.

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Please comment on Talk:Culture of the United Kingdom

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Goffman and stigma

(edit conflict)

Here's an article, and a book (Goffman) I think you'll find interesting. It's funny how things go in circles. I read Goffman ages ago (learned of him through R. D. Laing) and still have a couple of his works in paperback somewhere, although haven't picked one up in forever. So now, I find this article by Jessica Xavier called Passing as Stigma Management which is all about Goffman's Stigma: Notes on the Management of Spoiled Identity[1] where she quotes Goffman talking about one way that a member of some stigmatized group might manage this, and says:

"It may be noted that when realtively complete passing is essayed, the individual sometimes consciously arranges his own rite de passage, going to another city, holing up in a room for a few days with preselected clothing and cosmetics he has brought with him, and then, like a butterfly, emerging to try the brand new wings."

Now, besides the fact that that makes we want to run out and get the book from the library (they have it), there's one very interesting about this: the book was written in 1963, and Xavier claims to be quoting from a 1963 edition, which is almost impossible to believe. The google books version in the reference is a 2009 version, and the copyright page says "First Touchstone edition 1986," but I don't see anything about "revised and updated" or anything. Is it possible Goffman could have said that in 1963? Seems almost impossible. Anyway, the Xavier report is an interesting quick read, and I'm definitely going to get the book from the library; the 1963 edition, if I can find it.

You're probably wired into this stuff: is Goffman still taught today? I remember being so impressed when I first encountered him. Mathglot (talk) 04:42, 8 February 2018 (UTC)

References

  1. ^ Goffman, Erving (24 November 2009) [1st pub. Prentice-Hall:1963]. Stigma: Notes on the Management of Spoiled Identity. Simon and Schuster. p. 79. ISBN 978-1-4391-8833-0. OCLC 893162034. Retrieved 7 February 2018.

Why do you think Blue Lives Matter are opposed to anything Black Lives Matter is advocating?

Why do you think Blue Lives Matter are opposed to anything Black Lives Matter is advocating? --DHeyward (talk) 06:38, 9 February 2018 (UTC)

It's defined in its lead sentence as a countermovement. EvergreenFir (talk) 06:56, 9 February 2018 (UTC)
Without a source and grossly biased. It's inaccurate and didn't start to counter Black Lives Matter, it started after the assassination of two police officers. It's moniker is taken from Black Lives Matter but that doesn't place them in opposition. Blue Lives Matter supports non-violent protests and that was very obvious after the Dallas protest left 5 officers dead while the police protected peaceful Black Lives Matter protesters from what the FBI described as violent Black Nationalists. If there was an "Immigrant Lives Matter" it doesn't detract or counter or diminish from either Blue or Black lives matter. Those groups that exist to highlight violence against targeted individuals contrasted with "All Lives Matter" which inherently strives to take away attention to the plight of any specific group. "All Lives Matter" is correctly described sociologically as a countermovement to Black Lives Matter while Blue Lives Matter is not. Unless I missed something, Black Lives Matter is not advocating for an increase in police deaths or violent confrontations with police. --DHeyward (talk) 07:22, 9 February 2018 (UTC)
@DHeyward: um... the source is in the first sentence of the article. I've given more sources on articles talk page that could be used. I'm concerned your personal opinion on the topic is preventing you from turning to RS to see how they describe the issue. Multiple RS say it started in response to BLM. I'm not going to entertain your what if though about non- existent movements. Let's see what say and go from there. I'm sure there's some scholarly info too that I could look into tomorrow. EvergreenFir (talk) 07:40, 9 February 2018 (UTC)
Also the Ben and Jerry boycott makes it rather clear there's opposition to BLM. EvergreenFir (talk) 07:42, 9 February 2018 (UTC)
The Ben and Jerry's boycott was for accusing police of widespread racism, not supporting Black Lives matter. I don't have a personal belief beyond the reliable sources which is why I am not making the leap that Black Lives Matter is anti-police or vice-versa. Reliable sources don't attribute the violence that Blue Lives Matter opposes to Black Lives Matter. --DHeyward (talk) 08:05, 9 February 2018 (UTC)
But they do say that it was created in reaction and opposition to BLM. EvergreenFir (talk) 14:15, 9 February 2018 (UTC)

Please comment on Talk:Canada

The feedback request service is asking for participation in this request for comment on Talk:Canada. Legobot (talk) 04:28, 15 February 2018 (UTC)

White Savior Article

Some of the examples of films in the white savior article are not well researched and definitely reaching. For example, some of the films you listed are actually subversive rather than giving into the trope expressed in the article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Film Energy (talk • contribs) 03:55, 18 February 2018 (UTC)

@Film Energy: while you might disagree with some entries, we must make decisions based on reliable sources. I recommend reading the essay WP:TRUTH. EvergreenFir (talk) 04:08, 18 February 2018 (UTC)

White Savior Article

Not all of the examples are properly sourced. Some of the movies listed don't correspond with any sources listed. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Film Energy (talk • contribs) 04:28, 18 February 2018 (UTC)

@Film Energy: I recommend using the article's talk page. EvergreenFir (talk) 04:35, 18 February 2018 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

The Original Barnstar
Thanks for your work! Take a look at the section on sociology that I added to Race (human categorization). I am a new editor and your feedback would be appreciated. AnaSoc (talk) 01:28, 19 February 2018 (UTC)

WP:CBAN for Krajoyn

On Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard, I have started a discussion of a potential CBAN of Krajoyn which you might have been involved in.

The discussion is linked at WP:CBAN for Krajoyn. Iggy (Swan) 19:22, 19 February 2018 (UTC)

Hansen vs Predator

Hi, I don't know why you've removed the Hansen vs. Predator episode list if there are episode lists of other series. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.173.196.23 (talk) 22:24, 22 February 2018 (UTC)

Please comment on Wikipedia:Village pump (policy)

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Please comment on Talk:Morlachs

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Please comment on Talk:Chloe Kim

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clementine ford and her "kill all men" remark

I have left a message on the clementine ford talk page. --1.152.108.49 (talk) 03:34, 15 March 2018 (UTC)

What happened with my entry on Administrators' noticeboard?

I'm just wondering (not understanding) what happened with my 'complaint' about Naj'entus, on Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents, on 8 March. I notice a reaction of Naj saying he "explained his actions (...)" (which was more or less what I claimed he did not; well, you might have read my full posting on the noticeboard), and then some conclusion(?) by several people(?) (Niqabu, you?) in terms I'm not acquainted with: blocked as a sock, non-admin closure, and (in your edit sum. 19:55): "nac". Did any action towards Naj'entus take place? If so: which? If not so: why not, and who decided no action was needed? --Corriebertus (talk) 11:12, 11 March 2018 (UTC)

@Corriebertus: sorry for the delay. Nac stands for "non-administrator closure". The user was blocked indefinitely as a sock puppet. EvergreenFir (talk) 03:41, 15 March 2018 (UTC)

Please comment on Talk:Rod Laver

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Intermediate sources.

You say you are a professor in Sociology.

Imagine if a student came in submitted the following:

"Bonhoeffer's Ethics defined the Pharisee as "the man to whom only the knowledge of good and evil has come to be of importance in his entire life."1 1 Dietrich Bonhoeffer, Ethics, p. 30.

The student also submitted a list of things they read before submitting the paper, which included "Douglas Huff, "Dietrich Bonhoeffer" (Internet Encylopedia of Philosophy), http://www.iep.utm.edu/bonhoeff/," but notably did not include Dietrich Bonhoeffer, Ethics. Pressed, they said "I got the Bonhoeffer quote from the Internet Encylopedia of Philosophy. I did not read Dietrich Bonhoeffer.

Plagiarism, or not? That is literally identical to the situation where you said I did not understand what "secondary" sources mean. Carte Rouge (talk) 14:56, 16 March 2018 (UTC)

Specifically Wikipedia:SAYWHEREYOUGOTIT. Carte Rouge (talk) 14:59, 16 March 2018 (UTC)
@Carte Rouge: Academic standards for citation are not the same as the standards on Wikipedia. Generally speaking, here on Wikipedia if a source makes a statement about a topic without directly attributing it to the speaker (and thus making it clear they don't endorse the view), we can source that without going to the primary source. If a book review describes the meanings and themes of a book, we cite that review, not the book itself. In academic, we value primary resources over secondary ones. We teach first year students who to cite the textbooks (secondary sources) and later teach them to cite primary research. EvergreenFir (talk) 18:06, 16 March 2018 (UTC)
I don't think you're understanding me. In either location is it appropriate to use a citation to a source you have not looked at? Carte Rouge (talk) 18:49, 16 March 2018 (UTC)

Put a comment in the talk page

Hello Ever, you undid this revision earlier today without bothering to comment on the article's talk page. That is rude. Don't do it again. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.228.59.170 (talk) 19:54, 19 March 2018 (UTC)

Please comment on Talk:2018 FIA Formula One World Championship

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Please comment on Talk:Cristiano Ronaldo

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Good work...

...on Music man214. Beyond My Ken (talk) 17:09, 29 March 2018 (UTC)

New Page Review Newsletter No.10

Hello EvergreenFir, thank you for your work reviewing New Pages!
Notability
General notability guideline
Subject-specific guidelines
See also

ACTRIAL:

  • ACTRIAL's six month experiment restricting new page creation to (auto)confirmed users ended on 14 March. As expected, a greatly increased number of unsuitable articles and candidates for deletion are showing up in the feed again, and the backlog has since increased already by ~30%. Please consider reviewing a few extra articles each day.

Paid editing

  • Now that ACTRIAL is inoperative pending discussion, please be sure to look for tell-tale signs of undisclosed paid editing. Contact the creator if appropriate, and submit the issue to WP:COIN if necessary.

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Nominate competent users for Autopatrolled

  • While patrolling articles, if you find an editor that is particularly competent at creating quality new articles, and that user has created more than 25 articles (rather than stubs), consider nominating them for the 'Autopatrolled' user right HERE.

News

  • The next issue Wikipedia's newspaper The Signpost has now been published after a long delay. There are some articles in it, including ACTRIAL wrap-up that will be of special interest to New Page Reviewers. Don't hesitate to contribute to the comments sections. The Signpost is one of the best ways to stay up date with news and new developments - please consider subscribing to it. All editors of Wikipedia and associated projects are welcome to submit articles on any topic for consideration by the The Signpost's editorial team for the next issue.
To opt-out of future mailings, go here. MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 08:06, 30 March 2018 (UTC)

On your last revert regarding Identitarian Movement.

According to WP:RS Twitter posts can be used a reliable sources if "there is no reasonable doubt as to its authenticity," among other guidelines. This would also be the case with Breitbart as it stands as one of the few jouralistic outlets to cite the petition.

If you have any issues could you please try to find a different source instead of reverting, Thanks. --FactChecked1 (talk) 17:55, 2 April 2018 (UTC)

Breitbart, also generally not a reliable source, and it doesn't become reliable because it's the only thing available. It just stays unreliable and we don't use it. If you have to scrape the bottom of a barrel to find sources for a thing, then it's usually a good indication the thing you're trying to include is WP:UNDUE. GMGtalk 17:59, 2 April 2018 (UTC)
GMG is correct. EvergreenFir (talk) 18:01, 2 April 2018 (UTC)
Dropped an EW warning on the editor before I saw this thread. Meters (talk) 18:44, 2 April 2018 (UTC)

Please comment on Talk:Fantastic Mr. Fox (film)

The feedback request service is asking for participation in this request for comment on Talk:Fantastic Mr. Fox (film). Legobot (talk) 04:33, 5 April 2018 (UTC)

IP vandalism

WHOIS for both IPs: [9][10] Obviously the same person. --AussieLegend (✉) 16:35, 7 April 2018 (UTC)

Yeah, they're an LTA case. Been tracking them here: User:EvergreenFir/socks#Stroud EvergreenFir (talk) 16:37, 7 April 2018 (UTC)

Nice job!

With regard to the "new user" Nielen. You had a perfectly composed report up on the AE board while the rest of us were still collecting diffs. Well done! --MelanieN (talk) 02:53, 9 April 2018 (UTC)

@MelanieN: thanks! EvergreenFir (talk) 03:23, 9 April 2018 (UTC)

Hoax report in which it involves a false reference, which says that Mexico has 47% white people, Mexico only has 9 - 15% of white population in OFFICIAL CENSUS.

Greetings, i need help with this edit warring, thanks.

Edit warring and hoax report, to the user User:Pob3qu3

https://wiki.riteme.site/wiki/User_talk:I%C3%B1aki_Salazar#Edit_warring_and_hoax_report,_to_the_user_User:Pob3qu3

Hoax report in which it involves a false reference, which says that Mexico has 47% white people, Mexico only has 9 - 15% of white population in OFFICIAL CENSUS.

https://wiki.riteme.site/wiki/Talk:White_Latin_Americans#Hoax_report_in_which_it_involves_a_false_reference,_which_says_that_Mexico_has_47%_white_people,_Mexico_only_has_9_-_15%_of_white_population_in_OFFICIAL_CENSUS. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ignorantes22 (talk • contribs) 20:45, 10 April 2018 (UTC)

Discretionary Sanction

Hi there thanks for your message. Not sure if this is the right place, but I deleted an unsourced, unreferenced addition to a footnote to the page about women (in detail: someone keeps adding the fact that males who identify as woman do not have periods to the bit about infertility in women. That disorders of the male reproductive system do not include a lack of periods is I hope still understood by Wikipedians. The addition also makes no sense in relation to females who identify as trans as the lack of periods in any such otherwise healthy individual is voluntary and a result of medical treatment, not a disorder of their reproductive system).

I would therefore appreciate a heads up on a) how to get someone to protect the page so that neither myself nor whoever this is can change this page without someone else checking it over and b) advice on how deleting such an unsourced, unreferenced and plainly factually incorrect statement is contentious. If you have the time that is. Thanks Small candles (talk) 13:49, 11 April 2018 (UTC)

@Small candles: I'll comment on the article's talk page since it's about the content of that article. EvergreenFir (talk) 14:16, 11 April 2018 (UTC)

Please comment on Talk:Fauxcest

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Please comment on Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Boxing

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'A Rape On Campus' Name Controversy

Hi EvergreenFir; I apologize for bringing up long-closed discussions that have a consensus already, but this recent edit includes the last name of Jackie, citing a brief mention in a Huffpost article. As I understand it, per this discussion, the last name is not to be added until it is verified by multiple RS. Would you say this edit conforms to that decision? Thanks, Nanophosis (talk) 16:38, 21 April 2018 (UTC)

Please comment on Talk:Aromanticism

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Mail notification

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Mathglot (talk) 00:49, 29 April 2018 (UTC)

70.31.243.86

In regards to this edit, I thought you deserved an explanation. It was a lazy action on my behalf to inform you that the IP user had back-to-back edits, and the level 2 warning was issued after the first one. I understand it's well within reason to raise it to a level 3 without any additional edits since the level 2 warning was issued, but my intention was only to inform you. If you felt it was necessary to keep it raised to lvl 3 – as it appears you have chosen to do – that's fine too. Apologies if it felt like I was stepping on your toes. I'll drop a note next time instead of a revert. --GoneIn60 (talk) 17:11, 1 May 2018 (UTC)

Please comment on Talk:Sarah Paulson

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FYI

https://wiki.riteme.site/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard#Talk:Trans_man#Biological_vs_Social_View_of_Man — Preceding unsigned comment added by Userwoman (talk • contribs) 01:51, 7 May 2018 (UTC)

stop DS violation

Your revert of a challenged edit just violated the "consensus needed" DS at Presidency of Donald Trump. You've been around long enough to know better. The only way that edit can be restored is via consensus, so self-revert and join the discussion under the section Declines in foreign enrollments on the article TP. Atsme📞📧 06:01, 8 May 2018 (UTC)

@Atsme: I self-reverted. EvergreenFir (talk) 17:28, 8 May 2018 (UTC)

Please comment on Talk:Invasion of Privacy (album)

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Please comment on Talk:Bust of Cristiano Ronaldo

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Please comment on Talk:Trans man

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NPR Newsletter No.11 25 May 2018

Hello EvergreenFir, thank you for your work reviewing New Pages!
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  • A common issue: Pages not in English or poor, unattributed machine translations should not reside in main space even if they are stubs. Please ensure you are familiar with WP:NPPNE. Check in Google for the language and content, tag as required, then move to draft if they do have potential.

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Please comment on Wikipedia talk:WikiProject World Rally

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The Loud House

Hello. What I said in the video is true (I live in Greece)... you can check this promo I recorded. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uBd3fdI71A8

I find most of the time, good references to what I put. But it seems that the blog reference and the site one, didn't help. I'll be fine with any response of you, negative or positive. ;) NickBlamp (talk) 08:20, 30 May 2018 (UTC)

EDIT: BTW, rexsat is known for releasing press releases of Nickelodeon Greece, and there hasn't been a single wrong airdate mentioned there (again, I'll be fine if you don't believe that). NickBlamp (talk) 08:22, 30 May 2018 (UTC)

Please comment on Talk:University of London

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Articles for deletion/Feminist Current

Hello, I noticed that you were active on Wikipedia articles relating to gender, and thought that this may interest you, since I usually don't edit gender related articles, I don't know who to notify about this. I am nominating the article Feminist Current for deletion, and the original creator of the page even admitted that it wasn't notable. Please see Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Feminist Current ShimonChai (talk) 21:42, 8 June 2018 (UTC)

Please comment on Talk:Santa Fe High School shooting

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NPP Backlog Elimination Drive

Hello EvergreenFir, thank you for your work reviewing New Pages!

We can see the light at the end of the tunnel: there are currently 2900 unreviewed articles, and 4000 unreviewed redirects.

Announcing the Backlog Elimination Drive!

  • As a final push, we have decided to run a backlog elimination drive from the 20th to the 30th of June.
  • Reviewers who review at least 50 articles or redirects will receive a Special Edition NPP Barnstar: Special Edition New Page Patroller's Barnstar. Those who review 100, 250, 500, or 1000 pages will also receive tiered awards: 100 review coin, 250 review coin, 500 review coin, 1000 review certificate.
  • Please do not be hasty, take your time and fully review each page. It is extremely important that we focus on quality reviewing.

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Please comment on Talk:Bibliothèque de la Sorbonne

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Please comment on Talk:Western dress codes

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Please comment on Talk:Meaningful vote

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Please comment on Talk:Milwaukee Bucks

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Please comment on Talk:Veganism

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Source

I will reread how to source properly again. Jumped in too quick. The article isn't extremely bias so I will leave it be. I just hope the article doesn't become more bias than it is/appears to be. Thank you for being such a great awesome and nice editor. Have a great day. JC7V7DC5768 (talk) 06:41, 18 July 2018 (UTC)

Please comment on Talk:Vegetarianism

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Noticeboard discussion

Concerning this edit <https://wiki.riteme.site/w/index.php?diff=852253781&oldid=852253459&title=Wikipedia:Neutral_point_of_view/Noticeboard>, that is not something I have ever said. Could you maybe look at my comments again and strikethrough? Or perhaps you were thinking of someone else? Newimpartial (talk) 17:00, 27 July 2018 (UTC)

@Newimpartial: whoops, yeah sorry about that. I misread your comment and was getting users mixed up. EvergreenFir (talk) 17:22, 27 July 2018 (UTC)

Please comment on Talk:Blond

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NPR Newsletter No.12 30 July 2018

Chart of the New Pages Patrol backlog for the past 6 months. (Purge)

Hello EvergreenFir, thank you for your work reviewing New Pages!

June backlog drive

Overall the June backlog drive was a success, reducing the last 3,000 or so to below 500. However, as expected, 90% of the patrolling was done by less than 10% of reviewers.
Since the drive closed, the backlog has begun to rise sharply again and is back up to nearly 1,400 already. Please help reduce this total and keep it from raising further by reviewing some articles each day.

New technology, new rules
  • New features are shortly going to be added to the Special:NewPagesFeed which include a list of drafts for review, OTRS flags for COPYVIO, and more granular filter preferences. More details can be found at this page.
  • Probationary permissions: Now that PERM has been configured to allow expiry dates to all minor user rights, new NPR flag holders may sometimes be limited in the first instance to 6 months during which their work will be assessed for both quality and quantity of their reviews. This will allow admins to accord the right in borderline cases rather than make a flat out rejection.
  • Current reviewers who have had the flag for longer than 6 months but have not used the permissions since they were granted will have the flag removed, but may still request to have it granted again in the future, subject to the same probationary period, if they wish to become an active reviewer.
Editathons
  • Editathons will continue through August. Please be gentle with new pages that obviously come from good faith participants, especially articles from developing economies and ones about female subjects. Consider using the 'move to draft' tool rather than bluntly tagging articles that may have potential but which cannot yet reside in mainspace.
The Signpost
  • The next issue of the monthly magazine will be out soon. The newspaper is an excellent way to stay up to date with news and new developments between our newsletters. If you have special messages to be published, or if you would like to submit an article (one about NPR perhaps?), don't hesitate to contact the editorial team here.

Go here to remove your name if you wish to opt-out of future mailings. — Insertcleverphrasehere (or here) 00:00, 30 July 2018 (UTC)

Please comment on Talk:List of Major League Baseball players from South Korea

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Talkback

Hello, EvergreenFir. You have new messages at 65.152.68.207's talk page.
You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

Why can't Sonic SatAM be protected?

I've noticed The Adventures Of Sonic The Hedgehog was protected, why isn't Sonic SatAM protected by vandalism? I've viewed Sonic SatAM wasn't fit for children under the age of 10 years. There was suggestive content in the "Hooked on Sonics" episode involving Sonic and Sally making out in front of a crowd and I wished the scene was cut. Even Princess Sally Acorn wasn't a very good role model for children as I viewed her of having some sexual orientation in her persona. I will never recommend Sonic SatAM to any small child under the age of 10 years. Kristie Ann Webb (talk) 06:23, 8 August 2018 (UTC)

Please comment on Talk:Trypophobia

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C.Fred The Random Acts of Kindness Barnstar

The Random Acts of Kindness Barnstar
message is basic..great job in wikipedia.....timeline of salem....

Please comment on Talk:Lionel Messi

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fake news

I delete the fake news. But you are aggressively behaving. Without any reasonable reason. --Терпр (talk) 13:31, 18 August 2018 (UTC)

@Терпр: the sources appear prima facia to be legit. The burden is on you to show they are false. Please use the talk pages of the articles or a wiki project line WP:LGBT. EvergreenFir (talk) 13:34, 18 August 2018 (UTC)

Discretionary sanctions alert

The following is just for your information and does not imply any wrongdoing by you.

This is a standard message to notify contributors about an administrative ruling in effect. It does not imply that there are any issues with your contributions to date.

You have recently shown interest in post-1932 politics of the United States and closely related people. Due to past disruption in this topic area, a more stringent set of rules called discretionary sanctions is in effect: any administrator may impose sanctions on editors who do not strictly follow Wikipedia's policies, or any page-specific restrictions, when making edits related to the topic.

For additional information, please see the guidance on discretionary sanctions and the Arbitration Committee's decision here. If you have any questions, or any doubts regarding what edits are appropriate, you are welcome to discuss them with me or any other editor.

Would be happy to discuss things with you. TonyMorris68 (talk) 20:25, 24 August 2018 (UTC)

Truth

Truth is never racist. Truth von helswinkle (talk) 15:33, 28 August 2018 (UTC)

Looks like this editor is misnamed. Doug Weller talk 15:42, 28 August 2018 (UTC)

tu quoque

It is wrong to use the logical fallacy of the "tu quoque fallacy" that you said on the case in the arbitration commitie

The reason its a logical fallacy is due to the fact that if "a person says A is bad crime and says that another person is said to have done said A crimes, yet has done similar things themself, then that person is wrong, since that person has made an illogical error when it did a similar crime and if they cant understand the logic of what they themselves did wrong back then, they cant understand the logic if another person does a similar crime"

Another reason is due to the fact if you convict someone of POV while doing it yourself, then of course its illogical, since if you do it yourself while not being punished for it under the same evidence presented. the reason for this is due if person has done crime A then if another person does a similar crime that person have to be face the same punishment, if not it would be illogical, since if that person is not guilty, so are others not guilty, but if it is, then another person doing the same has to be guilty too. In this case WIKIPEDIA neutral point of view, where as you havec being anti white nationalist would mean you by same standard would be guilty of POV according to said logic. Hence why its a appeal to personal attacks, since tu quoque appeals to moral "we have different standards, its moraly bad" which does not have anything to do with the illogical of same standard being applied.

Thus both reasons, one that has nothing to do with your case but merely an example of the source on the tu quoque article being wrong due to that person cant make a logical thought back then what was wrong when said person did a bad crime, means that person cant make a logical thought about others doing similar crime.

Oh and the fact that just like the example gives in the article which it proves that it itself is wrong, that if the general was not convicted under the same circumstances, than Barbie couldn't be convicted either, since its illogical hypocrisy and doublestandard which is illogical and appeal to emotion/moral. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Arnoro33333 (talk • contribs) 23:48, 29 August 2018 (UTC)

Please comment on Talk:Sealioning

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Please comment on Talk:Poodle

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Please comment on Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Formula One

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NPR Newsletter No.13 18 September 2018

Hello EvergreenFir, thank you for your work reviewing New Pages!

The New Page Feed currently has 2700 unreviewed articles, up from just 500 at the start of July. For a while we were falling behind by an average of about 40 articles per day, but we have stabilised more recently. Please review some articles from the back of the queue if you can (Sort by: 'Oldest' at Special:NewPagesFeed), as we are very close to having articles older than one month.

Project news
As part of this project, the feed will have some larger updates to functionality next month. Specifically, ORES predictions will be built in, which will automatically flag articles for potential issues such as vandalism or spam. Copyright violation detection will also be added to the new page feed. See the projects's talk page for more info.
Other
Moving to Draft and Page Mover
  • Some unsuitable new articles can be best reviewed by moving them to the draft space, but reviewers need to do this carefully and sparingly. It is most useful for topics that look like they might have promise, but where the article as written would be unlikely to survive AfD. If the article can be easily fixed, or if the only issue is a lack of sourcing that is easily accessible, tagging or adding sources yourself is preferable. If sources do not appear to be available and the topic does not appear to be notable, tagging for deletion is preferable (PROD/AfD/CSD as appropriate). See additional guidance at WP:DRAFTIFY.
  • If the user moves the draft back to mainspace, or recreates it in mainspace, please do not re-draftify the article (although swapping it to maintain the page history may be advisable in the case of copy-paste moves). AfC is optional except for editors with a clear conflict of interest.
  • Articles that have been created in contravention of our paid-editing-requirements or written from a blatant NPOV perspective, or by authors with a clear COI might also be draftified at discretion.
  • The best tool for draftification is User:Evad37/MoveToDraft.js(info). Kindly adapt the text in the dialogue-pop-up as necessary (the default can also be changed like this). Note that if you do not have the Page Mover userright, the redirect from main will be automatically tagged as CSD R2, but in some cases it might be better to make this a redirect to a different page instead.
  • The Page Mover userright can be useful for New Page Reviewers; occasionally page swapping is needed during NPR activities, and it helps avoid excessive R2 nominations which must be processed by admins. Note that the Page Mover userright has higher requirements than the NPR userright, and is generally given to users active at Requested Moves. Only reviewers who are very experienced and are also very active reviewers are likely to be granted it solely for NPP activities.
List of other useful scripts for New Page Reviewing

  • Twinkle provides a lot of the same functionality as the page curation tools, and some reviewers prefer to use the Twinkle tools for some/all tasks. It can be activated simply in the gadgets section of 'preferences'. There are also a lot of options available at the Twinkle preferences panel after you install the gadget.
  • In terms of other gadgets for NPR, HotCat is worth turning on. It allows you to easily add, remove, and change categories on a page, with name suggestions.
  • MoreMenu also adds a bunch of very useful links for diagnosing and fixing page issues.
  • User:Equazcion/ScriptInstaller.js(info): Installing scripts doesn't have to be complicated. Go to your common.js and copy importScript( 'User:Equazcion/ScriptInstaller.js' ); into an empty line, now you can install all other scripts with the click of a button from the script page! (Note you need to be at the ".js" page for the script for the install button to appear, not the information page)
  • User:TheJosh/Scripts/NewPagePatrol.js(info): Creates a scrolling new pages list at the left side of the page. You can change the number of pages shown by adding the following to the next line on your common.js page (immediately after the line importing this script): npp_num_pages=20; (Recommended 20, but you can use any number from 1 to 50).
  • User:Primefac/revdel.js(info): Is requesting revdel complicated and time consuming? This script helps simplify the process. Just have the Copyvio source URL and go to the history page and collect your diff IDs and you can drop them into the script Popups and it will create a revdel request for you.
  • User:Lourdes/PageCuration.js(info): Creates a "Page Curation" link to Special:NewPagesFeed up near your sandbox link.
  • User:Writ Keeper/Scripts/deletionFinder.js: Creates links next to the title of each page which show up if it has been previously deleted or nominated for deletion.
  • User:Evad37/rater.js(info): A fantastic tool for adding WikiProject templates to article talk pages. If you add: rater_autostartNamespaces = 0; to the next line on your common.js, the prompt will pop up automatically if a page has no Wikiproject templates on the talk page (note: this can be a bit annoying if you review redirects or dab pages commonly).

Go here to remove your name if you wish to opt-out of future mailings. MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 23:11, 17 September 2018 (UTC)

Please comment on Talk:Sport in Australia

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Please comment on Talk:Daniel Mallory Ortberg

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Please comment on Talk:Devil's Triangle (disambiguation)

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Please comment on Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Music

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Vandalism

Please stop vandalism this page, it took an hour to update the info so you could erase it in one second. Just read the link with the bibliography.--2A02:C7F:5030:EB00:CC06:5583:EBDB:496E (talk) 18:21, 14 October 2018 (UTC)

After watching your work

Tireless worker for fairness
It does not take long to notice your clean and timely contributions. You have long been blunt when necessary and kind when warranted. Perhaps the world would become a better place with more editors like you. Den... (talk) 05:42, 15 October 2018 (UTC)

Please comment on Talk:Dissent from Catholic teaching on homosexuality

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NPR Newsletter No.14 21 October 2018

Chart of the New Pages Patrol backlog for the past 6 months.

Hello EvergreenFir, thank you for your work reviewing New Pages!

Backlog

As of 21 October 2018, there are 3650 unreviewed articles and the backlog now stretches back 51 days.

Community Wishlist Proposal
Project updates
  • ORES predictions are now built-in to the feed. These automatically predict the class of an article as well as whether it may be spam, vandalism, or an attack page, and can be filtered by these criteria now allowing reviewers to better target articles that they prefer to review.
  • There are now tools being tested to automatically detect copyright violations in the feed. This detector may not be accurate all the time, though, so it shouldn't be relied on 100% and will only start working on new revisions to pages, not older pages in the backlog.
New scripts

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Please comment on Talk:2019 Formula One World Championship

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Special:Diff/868021908

Hi. I don't think the user is intending to request any user rights. A simple "not done" may be more appropriate. Best, ―Abelmoschus Esculentus 14:15, 9 November 2018 (UTC)

November 2018

Edit was made with reasons explained and therefore constitutes as constructive. Sex is a biological construct. Gender is not. Therefore sex and gender cannot be used interchangeable, using them that way is what would constitute as non constructive, with risks of also confusing the reader.

Vallonen (talk) 16:39, 13 November 2018 (UTC)

@Vallonen: In this edit you altered the title of a book in a reference and a wikilink. Moreover, what the part of the article you edited was referring to was social conventions, thus gender is the appropriate word. EvergreenFir (talk) 18:32, 13 November 2018 (UTC)
The social conventions you refer to not only is that incorrect, but also a red herring to the issue at hand, which is that sex and gender isn't the same thing and therefore cannot be used interchangeably and that doing so add confusion.
I would also like to bring to your attention that the social convention you used as an argument may fly in certain social circles, but it has no biological or scientific basis or weight, which is why new ones are being invented all the time. Wiki should not be a battle ground for identity politics either, as such it should read sex and not gender. Vallonen (talk) 18:59, 13 November 2018 (UTC)
@Vallonen: Use the article's talk page if you want to discuss it further. I am not sure what's going on, but you are incorrect. I know about, teach, and specialize in studies on the social construction of gender. I can only think there must be some miscommunication here... EvergreenFir (talk) 19:13, 13 November 2018 (UTC)


I am sure that you teach the social construct of gender, which proves the point I made (that gender is a social convention in certain circles, and why new ones are being made up, current count I believe is around 30) and which further demonstrates why you cannot use sex and gender interchangeable since one is a biological construct, whereas the other is a social construct! Males and females are biological constructs. Not social constructs. So what ever it is that you teach, it has nothing to do with biology or science, but with identity politics. If you had made an argument that said the two sexes organize society on the basis of their biological differences, then, and only then, would the context of social construct make any sense.
There is no miscommunication on my part, I talk about males and females (biological constructs i.e. sex) you talk about genders (i.e. social constructs), you then proceed to argue you can use them interchangeably, which for reasons clearly explained and demonstrated to you you cannot.
That’s were we are at this point. Vallonen (talk) 20:16, 13 November 2018 (UTC)
@Vallonen: How is that remotely related to Blond though? Specifically, the linguistic gender of the term? EvergreenFir (talk) 20:33, 13 November 2018 (UTC)
At this point I’m not sure whether you are being deliberately obtuse or not. I could ask you, how is the social construct of gender remotely related to the colour Blond? Specifically, the linguistic term of gender?
This deals with biological constructs, not with made up genders. As such the definition used should be sex. Not gender. Hence my edit. Vallonen (talk) 20:57, 13 November 2018 (UTC)
If you think blonde/blond is somehow related to sex... go take it to the article's talk page. EvergreenFir (talk) 20:59, 13 November 2018 (UTC)
Hair colour happens to be another biological construct, and trails nicely with the male and female sex, since males and females display this hair colour (the colour blond/blonde has absolutely nothing to do with the social construct of gender) If you believe otherwise then I suggest you be the one to take it to the article's talk page and present an argument for your belief. I have made it very clear for why it should read sex, and not gender. Vallonen (talk) 21:18, 13 November 2018 (UTC)
Hair color has nothing to do with biological sex directly. Moreover, you broke a wikilink and altered a reference. That is disruptive. EvergreenFir (talk) 22:33, 13 November 2018 (UTC)

Actually it does, and what you will find is that there are more blonde women than there are blond men, a direct correlation with sex. Moreover, you are now trying to yet again sidestep the issue after having lost the argument, moving it onto the wikilink and a reference instead. Well that's an easy enough fix.

Vallonen (talk) 22:51, 13 November 2018 (UTC)

Nothing in this edit is related to sex. And there is no "winning" or "losing" arguments here. EvergreenFir (talk) 22:59, 13 November 2018 (UTC)
You have the wrong mindset if you look at this from the point of view of competition. Like I said in my previous post, this is an easy enough fix.
Example
“The hair colour “Blond”, male form, and “blonde”, female form, is one of the few adjectives in written English to retain this separate masculine and feminine form. Each of the two forms, however, is pronounced identically” Vallonen (talk) 23:10, 13 November 2018 (UTC)

NPR Newsletter No.15 16 November 2018

Chart of the New Pages Patrol backlog for the past 6 months.

Hello EvergreenFir,

Community Wishlist Survey – NPP needs you – Vote NOW
  • Community Wishlist Voting takes place 16 to 30 November for the Page Curation and New Pages Feed improvements, and other software requests. The NPP community is hoping for a good turnout in support of the requests to Santa for the tools we need. This is very important as we have been asking the Foundation for these upgrades for 4 years.
If this proposal does not make it into the top ten, it is likely that the tools will be given no support at all for the foreseeable future. So please put in a vote today.
We are counting on significant support not only from our own ranks, but from everyone who is concerned with maintaining a Wikipedia that is free of vandalism, promotion, flagrant financial exploitation and other pollution.
With all 650 reviewers voting for these urgently needed improvements, our requests would be unlikely to fail. See also The Signpost Special report: 'NPP: This could be heaven or this could be hell for new users – and for the reviewers', and if you are not sure what the wish list is all about, take a sneak peek at an article in this month's upcoming issue of The Signpost which unfortunately due to staff holidays and an impending US holiday will probably not be published until after voting has closed.

Go here to remove your name if you wish to opt-out of future mailings. — Insertcleverphrasehere (or here)18:37, 16 November 2018 (UTC)

ArbCom 2018 election voter message

Hello, EvergreenFir. Voting in the 2018 Arbitration Committee elections is now open until 23.59 on Sunday, 3 December. All users who registered an account before Sunday, 28 October 2018, made at least 150 mainspace edits before Thursday, 1 November 2018 and are not currently blocked are eligible to vote. Users with alternate accounts may only vote once.

The Arbitration Committee is the panel of editors responsible for conducting the Wikipedia arbitration process. It has the authority to impose binding solutions to disputes between editors, primarily for serious conduct disputes the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the authority to impose site bans, topic bans, editing restrictions, and other measures needed to maintain our editing environment. The arbitration policy describes the Committee's roles and responsibilities in greater detail.

If you wish to participate in the 2018 election, please review the candidates and submit your choices on the voting page. MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 18:42, 19 November 2018 (UTC)

Response

Hi EvergreenFir. Referring to this edit. I removed those words because the Seleucid Empire didn't just encompass "Afghanistan and Persia". Whoever wrote that material, decided to single out those two entities, while omitting the actual context vis-a-vis the Seleucids and Afghanistans history. I propose changing those words into "... which also included present-day Afghanistan", which sounds more encyclopedic and on point. Thoughts? - LouisAragon (talk) 16:54, 10 December 2018 (UTC)

@LouisAragon: Thanks for commenting. I honestly don't know much about the topic, but the edit summary didn't seem to match the nature of the edit so I reverted. Your rationale here sounds good though. EvergreenFir (talk) 18:01, 10 December 2018 (UTC)

NPR Newsletter No.16 15 December 2018

Hello EvergreenFir,

Reviewer of the Year

This year's award for the Reviewer of the Year goes to Onel5969. Around on Wikipedia since 2011, their staggering number of 26,554 reviews over the past twelve months makes them, together with an additional total of 275,285 edits, one of Wikipedia's most prolific users.

Thanks are also extended for their work to JTtheOG (15,059 reviews), Boleyn (12,760 reviews), Cwmhiraeth (9,001 reviews), Semmendinger (8,440 reviews), PRehse (8,092 reviews), Arthistorian1977 (5,306 reviews), Abishe (4,153 reviews), Barkeep49 (4,016 reviews), and Elmidae (3,615 reviews).
Cwmhiraeth, Semmendinger, Barkeep49, and Elmidae have been New Page Reviewers for less than a year — Barkeep49 for only seven months, while Boleyn, with an edit count of 250,000 since she joined Wikipedia in 2008, has been a bastion of New Page Patrol for many years.

See also the list of top 100 reviewers.

Less good news, and an appeal for some help

The backlog is now approaching 5,000, and still rising. There are around 640 holders of the NPR flag, most of whom appear to be inactive. The 10% of the reviewers who do 90% of the work could do with some support especially as some of them are now taking a well deserved break.


Really good news - NPR wins the Community Wishlist Survey 2019

At #1 position, the Community Wishlist poll closed on 3 December with a resounding success for NPP, reminding the WMF and the volunteer communities just how critical NPP is to maintaining a clean encyclopedia and the need for improved tools to do it. A big 'thank you' to everyone who supported the NPP proposals. See the results.


Training video

Due to a number of changes having been made to the feed since this three-minute video was created, we have been asked by the WMF for feedback on the video with a view to getting it brought up to date to reflect the new features of the system. Please leave your comments here, particularly mentioning how helpful you find it for new reviewers.

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MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 21:14, 14 December 2018 (UTC)

Merry Merry

Happy Christmas!
Hello EvergreenFir,
Early in A Child's Christmas in Wales the young Dylan and his friend Jim Prothero witness smoke pouring from Jim's home. After the conflagration has been extinguished Dylan writes that

Nobody could have had a noisier Christmas Eve. And when the firemen turned off the hose and were standing in the wet, smoky room, Jim's Aunt, Miss. Prothero, came downstairs and peered in at them. Jim and I waited, very quietly, to hear what she would say to them. She said the right thing, always. She looked at the three tall firemen in their shining helmets, standing among the smoke and cinders and dissolving snowballs, and she said, "Would you like anything to read?"

My thanks to you for your efforts to keep the 'pedia readable in case the firemen chose one of our articles :-) Best wishes to you and yours and happy editing in 2019. MarnetteD|Talk 20:39, 18 December 2018 (UTC)

Request for assistance

Hi EvergreenFir,

I'm kinda new to Wikipedia editing proper, and made a few edits to two articles Reverse Sexism and Internalised Sexism which I hope are ok; mostly the first one which was really messy and wasn't properly cited at all. I saw you're the resident expert on these things and I was wondering if I've gone to far in trying to reach out to the "opposite perspective". Would you be ok to look over my edits and give me some pointers if you think they're needed? Or maybe just some general encouragement I'm doing a good job, lol. Also I made a statement on my talk page because I noticed there were no philosophers at all other than white males listed for the philosophy userboxes on Wikipedia! Is this normal here and is such a complaint considered rude? Would really value your advice. Mrspaceowl (talk) 20:37, 27 December 2018 (UTC)

Update to scripts by AlexTheWhovian/Alex 21

Information icon Hello! This is a generic message created and copied to all editors using scripts that I have created. As I have recently changed my username from "User:AlexTheWhovian" to "User:Alex 21", any scripts that I have created that are listed at your common.js page may, at the moment, no longer be working. To fix this, simply update all occurrences of "User:AlexTheWhovian" to "User:Alex 21"; see here for an example. All the best! -- /Alex/21 11:04, 4 January 2019 (UTC)

CSI Miami season 9 Episode 3 See no evil?

I believe that Joe is Hilarious Dumb for Returning To Prison After (He abducted the Girl).

In the Episode, nobody specifically says if Joe is Dumb.

1. Y can’t I edit the Wikipedia that Joe is Dumb?

2. Don’t You agree Joe is Dumb?(124.123.50.3 (talk) 09:00, 7 January 2019 (UTC)).

LGBT

LGBT, an article that you or your project may be interested in, has been nominated for an individual good article reassessment. If you are interested in the discussion, please participate by adding your comments to the reassessment page. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, the good article status may be removed from the article. AIRcorn (talk) 21:39, 25 January 2019 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

The Special Barnstar
uwu puggo 20:24, 27 January 2019 (UTC)

"Color-blind casting"

You reverted my edit to the page Color-blind casting with the explanation of "As I made clear in my edit summary, this does not belong." However, your last summary was "Try that again", quite the opposite of saying that "this does not belong".
Before that, you removed my entry with the explanation "The Wiz is a reimagining, not a simple race swap", which is why I reworded the entry to: "The Wiz "re-imagined" L. Frank Baum's classic 1900 children's novel The Wonderful Wizard of Oz, which had previously gained popularity from the film adaptation 'Wizard of Oz' in 1939. Michael Jackson played the Scarecrow, previously adapted to 'Scarecrow', portrayed by Ray Bolger; Diana Ross played Dorothy, previously adapted to 'Dorothy' played by Judy Garland; Nipsey Russell played the Tinman, previously adapted to 'Tin Man' played by Jack Haley; Ted Ross played the Lion, previously adapted to the 'Cowardly Lion' played by Bert Lahr." What makes you believe (incorrectly, IMO) that this "does not belong"? Walterblue222 (talk) 22:58, 16 February 2019 (UTC)

Race swap isn't the same as color blind casting. The casting was intentional. EvergreenFir (talk) 23:01, 16 February 2019 (UTC)
Fair enough - then where is the page regarding "blackwashing in film"? Walterblue222 (talk) 23:13, 16 February 2019 (UTC)
There isn't one. It's not a thing RS talk about. EvergreenFir (talk) 23:17, 16 February 2019 (UTC)
Uh, what? I'd appreciate if you would be specific. Why is there not a "blackwashing in film" page? "Blackwashing in film" obviously takes place, because that is your argument for denying my contributions to the color-blind casting page. If there is not a "blackwashing in film" page, you seem to have no valid reason to deny the entry I added on the color-blind casting article. Walterblue222 (talk) 03:10, 17 February 2019 (UTC)
@Walterblue222: because it's not something discussed by reliable sources and not a topic deserving of a page. Please review WP:NPOV, WP:RS, and WP:NOR. No matter how obvious something bought be to us, it "doesn't exist" to wikipedia unless reliable sources say it does. Afaik, RS don't say "black washing" exists except as something people claim when doing backlash against whitewashing.
As for The Wiz, I don't think it counts as color blind casting as it was intentional, not blind. If you find reliable sources that support its inclusion, use them and present them on the article's talk page. EvergreenFir (talk) 07:49, 17 February 2019 (UTC)
Hahaha, are you serious, EvergreenFir? You lecture me about WP:NPOV directly after making a statement that is extremely opinionated ("not a topic deserving of a page"), claim that "it "doesn't exist" to wikipedia unless reliable sources say it does", without considering the possibility that there could be reliable sources that acknowledge it. You claim that "black-washing" doesn't exist - and in the very next sentence you provide an example of intentional black-washed casting. ARE YOU SERIOUS??? Do you have memory problems or do you always contradict yourself like this??? I don't know if I should laugh, or be seriously concerned for your mental health... Walterblue222 (talk) 14:24, 17 February 2019 (UTC)
After doing a few minutes of research, I found out that yes, the 'color-blind casting' page IS completely appropriate as a place to provide examples of "black-washing". The page "blackwashing" here on Wikipedia: https://wiki.riteme.site/w/index.php?title=Blackwashing redirects to "color-blind casting". So, Wikipedia DOES recognize the existence of "blackwashing", and has the term conflated with "color-blind casting", therfor my additions WERE applicable and you should NOT have removed them. I'll wait for you to reply before adding more examples of "blackwashing" to the "color-blind casting"/"blackwashing" page, but your error is quite obvious in this situation. Walterblue222 (talk) 14:29, 17 February 2019 (UTC)
@Walterblue222: Love the personal attacks but those need to stop now. Those aside... the redirect was made last May by one editor. Yet the word appears nowhere on the target article. Not very convincing. EvergreenFir (talk) 14:38, 17 February 2019 (UTC)
Sorry but I do not "love the personal attacks", and certainly agree that they "need to stop now". Please refrain from making them as I have never made personal attacks towards you whatsoever. What is it that you could possibly (erroneously) consider to be a personal attack? "you should NOT have removed them"? You're jumping to many conclusions and making inaccurate assertions, while I have been quite straightforward in everything I say here. Disagreeing with me doesn't give you the right to make personal attacks and accusations. Seriously, let's try to be professional and respectful. I always strive to be (and have been) to you. Walterblue222 (talk) 15:59, 17 February 2019 (UTC)
Your comment above that you don't know if you should laugh or be seriously concerned for EvergreenFir's mental health is a personal attack. Regards, AzureCitizen (talk) 16:18, 17 February 2019 (UTC)
Indeed. Some of you might want to see this YouTube video. The Myth Of 'Blackwashing' Fictional Characters In Movies Like 'Deadpool'. Doug Weller talk 17:33, 17 February 2019 (UTC)
My comment above: "Do you have memory problems or do you always contradict yourself like this??? I don't know if I should laugh, or be seriously concerned for your mental health" was a question followed by a statement of concern. This does not constitute a personal attack, AzureCitizen. Doug Weller, do you believe everything claimed on YouTube? Do you consider this a reliable source? The video is quite opinionated and includes many factually incorrect statements. Look at the like/dislike ratio and consider that the person claiming "blackwashing" doesn't exist is a "black" individual giving her biased opinion, which also happens to be racist and prejudicial. Walterblue222 (talk) 18:05, 17 February 2019 (UTC)
Lol. Most of us know that very few YouTube videos can be used as sources. I simply thought some, not you, would find it interesting. It seems very likely that it's been targeted by racists. You seem to be quoting a comment there by the way. Interesting that you think blacks can't comment on blackwashing without being biased, I guess that means whites can't comment on whitewashing? And yes, that was a personal attack. Doug Weller talk 18:25, 17 February 2019 (UTC)
Targeted by racists? The video itself is MADE by racists. What are you saying I "seem to be quoting"? I didn't say that "blacks can't comment on blackwashing", but thanks for verifying the existence of "blackwashing". Stating that I "think blacks can't comment on blackwashing without being biased" is not true, but if someone is a part of a group accused of an action, and completely denies the action - while simultaneously repeating said action - it certainly seems like their bias is impacting their position. For instance, if a "white" person in the KKK claims that the KKK is a humanitarian, peaceful organization, would you believe them? Walterblue222 (talk) 22:21, 17 February 2019 (UTC)
One step from fulfilling Godwin's Law. Just stop. EvergreenFir (talk) 22:23, 17 February 2019 (UTC)
Stop WHAT? What is it with people being indirect on here (and no, that's not a personal attack)? Godwin's law is regarding Adolf Hitler, not the KKK...Walterblue222 (talk) 22:31, 17 February 2019 (UTC)
Which is why I said "one step from"... EvergreenFir (talk) 22:33, 17 February 2019 (UTC)

@Walterblue222: Let me be direct. Azure is correct regarding the personal attacks. Your replies are disingenuous at minimum. Please consider this as a final warning for violations of WP:NPA and WP:CIVIL more generally. EvergreenFir (talk) 18:45, 17 February 2019 (UTC)

Nothing I've said is disingenuous. Stop projecting. Walterblue222 (talk) 22:21, 17 February 2019 (UTC)
"Whitesplaining" [11]. Doug Weller talk 20:48, 17 February 2019 (UTC)
"Blacksplaining" [12]. Walterblue222 (talk) 22:21, 17 February 2019 (UTC)
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