User:Bretonbanquet/Talk Archive 6

Thin Lizzy (album) reliable source

FMSky used this same source on Thin Lizzy's second album and when I used the same source on the debut album page you removed it calling it an unreliable source, so why didn't you remove it from the second album page as well if it's not reliable? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.139.79.38 (talk) 23:30, 27 January 2023 (UTC)

I inserted a far better source but you removed it. I then got pissed off with the genre obsession some people seem to have, so I abandoned it. I've restored my source. No doubt you'll have a problem with it. Bretonbanquet (talk) 00:19, 28 January 2023 (UTC)

New section!

Yes we need a new section. Takkers has recreated a page for BRP Mk2. Or rather he did... the re-direct has been (not very) mysteriously, restored. It's possibly borderline re notability but as it's him... :P The TS20 is another lift from somewhere full of the trademark grammar/punc/tense errors. Eagleash (talk) 21:16, 20 March 2016 (UTC)

Didn't see this down here! Good point about the section break, DH, see how we need someone sensible to suggest things like that ;) I'd be all for a note somewhere about the consensus regarding these teams, either at the FWRC page or at the Conventions section of the Project page. I don't think anyone other than Taki would complain about it as nobody else has ever suggested separate templates and articles. Consensus, however loose, is well against Taki so it shouldn't be a problem. The TS20 can be handled in the same way as the other Surtees pages if they are accepted (and Lord knows they probably will be); clean them up or turn them into redirects. Bretonbanquet (talk) 21:28, 20 March 2016 (UTC)

I have been 'going to start a new section' for ages...never got to it.... and I didn't spot the later post by DH above either... I can't see anyone disagreeing with any suggestion re notability of these cars and apart from one or two 'casual' F1 editors (or eds outside the project) there's been almost no 'support' for Takkers. Eagleash (talk) 21:50, 20 March 2016 (UTC)

I've added details of the consensus regarding Iso-Marlboro/Politoys/Wolf-Wolf-Williams at the project Conventions page. Also I notice the creation of Draft:Merzario A1. DH85868993 (talk) 00:15, 27 March 2016 (UTC)

And Draft:Bellasi F1 FFS. Eagleash (talk) 00:24, 27 March 2016 (UTC)

I've put notes on both talk-pages that the cars lack notability. Doubtless they'll be ignored by whoever reviews them (as has been the case previously). Eagleash (talk) 00:36, 27 March 2016 (UTC)

They (Swister) ignored the notes on the Bellasi. I've redirected it. Eagleash (talk) 07:59, 30 March 2016 (UTC)

On the question of the Lupine cars, I was wondering if anything should be done about the multiple changes to 1976 related articles as here where every FWRC piped to Wolf-Williams has been changed to WWR piped to Wolf-Williams? Ends up in the same place though. Don't know about anyone else but bit fed up with the habitual lack of edit summaries too. Eagleash (talk) 01:02, 27 March 2016 (UTC)

Although unnecessary, changing the piped links is probably some of the least harmful stuff he's done, so I'm tempted to let sleeping dogs Wolfs lie. Agree about the lack of edit summaries though. DH85868993 (talk) 08:16, 29 March 2016 (UTC)

And now there's Draft:Vanwall VW 2 and Draft:Vanwall VW 55 plus these edits: [1], [2], [3] Sigh. DH85868993 (talk) 07:57, 29 March 2016 (UTC)

I've left notes on the talk-pages of the drafts...not that reviewers will take any notice... and I've undone those 3 edits. Eagleash (talk) 11:21, 29 March 2016 (UTC)

The Vanwall VW2 and Merzario A1 were also accepted. Both re-directed. Same reviewer who again ignored the notes on talk-pages. Swister Twister really shouldn't be reviewing. Accepted multiple sub-standard drafts now. Eagleash (talk) 06:11, 31 March 2016 (UTC)

And Vanwall VW55, which I have redirected. Should we ask Swister Twister not to accept any more F1 drafts without consulting the WikiProject first? DH85868993 (talk) 09:42, 31 March 2016 (UTC)

Sorry I've been out of action for a little while, much real life stuff going on. Totally agree with the redirects for the Bellasi, Merzario and Vanwall cars and that Swister Twister should probably steer clear of F1 related reviews. That's really quite a few articles that he/she has accepted that we've had to deal with. I'm inclined to agree about the Wolf edits he made, although I might have a run through those at some point and see if any improvements can be made. It's sad that it seems this is the only way to deal with Taki, i.e. clearing up after him instead of having some "official" help, but at least it doesn't look like he fights back much. Bretonbanquet (talk) 10:19, 31 March 2016 (UTC)

Swister is definitely the Taki of reviewers. Just to consistently ride roughshod over talk-page notes etc. indicates a degree of arrogance we've noted before with reviewers. Question is, who reviews the reviewers? Who do we complain to? How do these people get this status and could it (ultimately) be revoked? As it stands it makes the review system pretty pointless. Eagleash (talk) 16:39, 31 March 2016 (UTC)

Now we have an editor reverting DH's redirect on the Vanwall VW 55 page saying it should go to AfD. Not really it should be kept as a re-direct IMO. I've left a message on the t-page of the editor concerned and restored the re-dir. Eagleash (talk) 19:36, 31 March 2016 (UTC)

I think we have to bring our complaints about the reviewers to the administrator as well. Tvx1 23:55, 31 March 2016 (UTC)

ANI seem to have no concept or grasp of the extent of the problem "I've looked at recent edits and blah blah blah". I notice that a recent similar complaint to ours was dealt with the same day (or next) with a block! IP boy is up to well over 100 IPs now which must be (guestimate) approaching 2,000 edits. I'd say that 90% of those edits have had to be cleaned up in some way by others... The 'heirachy', for want of a better word, don't accept criticism well if at all. Another reviewer told me Swister was 'one for deletions' (FFS) and there was Diannaa's response citing edits to show that IP boy was OK (a whole 2 edits) which included one removing maintenance templates without fixing. Basically, it seems Admin just can't be bothered and are happy to let us mugs keep tidying up. Eagleash (talk) 11:25, 1 April 2016 (UTC)

Would have to say that Swister is not the only reviewer who we might consider a bit lacking though. Eagleash (talk) 18:06, 1 April 2016 (UTC)

I notice Draft:Ensign N175. I wonder whether this one might be notable, given its dual identity as the "Boro 001"? DH85868993 (talk) 15:00, 2 April 2016 (UTC)

I was wondering where he'd got to... I am undecided as to notability; on the face of it not that much more so than some others. Usual spelling etc. errors though. And copy-vio I expect too. Eagleash (talk) 15:33, 2 April 2016 (UTC)

Can't categorically say it's a copy-vio (tool does not help) but the grammar errors are usually the result of C&P in my experience. Taki has also requested a re-dir for Merzario A1B. Commented at the the request and also at the page of the editor who's been helpful previously. Eagleash (talk) 18:11, 2 April 2016 (UTC)

Good news! The Ensign draft has been declined by Dodger67. Seems like forever since any of Taki's drafts got knocked back. He'll no doubt just WP:TE re-submit it without fixing, as usual, and we'll end up at MfD again. Comment made was to effect that refs are just a list of results, which we've noted above is not ideal. Eagleash (talk) 19:12, 2 April 2016 (UTC)

The Merzario A1B re-dir req. has been accepted...usual hidden advice left... After discussion with a reviewer, it seems talk-pages aren't typically looked at as part of a review and if we have comments we should use {{AFC comment}} to place comments on the actual draft rather than the t-page. This can be used to draw attention to the t-page if necessary. Eagleash (talk) 10:57, 3 April 2016 (UTC)

I've restored the name of the reviewer to your post – he has absolutely no business editing other people's comments on my talk page. At least he's a more capable reviewer. I agree that some, if not most, reviewers seem not to look at talk pages. If they do, then the problem's even worse than we thought. Ironically, the Ensign draft was one of the more borderline notable of Taki's efforts. That car did score a point. But it should have been declined on the basis of poor writing and, as Dodger said, no notability established. That wouldn't have been hard to do, if Taki were a half-decent editor who didn't just pinch text from elsewhere. I also agree that ANI is a bit of a waste of time. Those who frequent that page just don't consider atrocious editing to be a problem. I think we're largely on our own in dealing with Taki and his efforts. Bretonbanquet (talk) 13:03, 3 April 2016 (UTC)

I knew he shouldn't have removed it, but I didn't want to make a fuss particularly as Dodger has been pretty helpful. He's taken our concerns about the talk-pages to the AfC project and rejected the Ensign draft for a second time. I'd be tempted to take it to MfD if Taki re-submits it without any attempt to fix it again. It's kind of ironic that Dodger has knocked it back as (although just as badly written) it's 'better' than the four pages which were accepted. I must say I'm surprised that looking at T-pages doesn't form part of a reviewer's remit. Those pages are accessible by the 'readership' (assuming such a thing exists) so maybe should be checked. Quite enjoyed today's race, despite the fact that the track is so utterly 'play-mat'. Eagleash (talk) 23:17, 3 April 2016 (UTC)

Taki has now requested re-directs for Williams FW01, FW02 and FW03. The reason given for the request (reasonably valid) is a copy and paste of part of the lead of the Williams FW page. It's hopeless trying to stop this nonsense. Eagleash (talk) 12:51, 4 April 2016 (UTC)

Indeed, none of those drafts should have been accepted, as we know. Hopefully Dodger will be around to deal with more of those as they arise. The fact that talk pages aren't generally consulted by reviewers does say rather a lot about the reviewing system! Taki's requests for redirects are just typical Taki. The guy gives me the ache. Thanks for reverting his terrible edit to the FW article; I do honestly take some considerable exception to someone like Taki attempting to make my prose clearer. Jeez. The race – like the curate's egg, good in parts. Dismal track though, as you say. Anyone in the stands, was there? Thought not! Bretonbanquet (talk) 22:16, 4 April 2016 (UTC)

Funnily enough, the ed who has previously been helpful at re-dirs. popped up today and asked to be kept informed of any further reqs. So he has been... Dean is nearly finished now I think. I need to reset my MS archive articles to flesh it out a bit. Then maybe Fitti f8 or March 761 if you haven't fettled it by then. Eagleash (talk) 23:23, 4 April 2016 (UTC)

That's a good development; we need all the helpful editors we can get. Glad you've been working on Dean and RL hasn't got in the way too much! I thought I might have a go at March 761 at some stage; I'm hoping it will be soon. Taki's been busy today, piping links to redirects... I've undone all those. I see there have been interesting movements elsewhere, like the guy who thought he'd delete the results table at Dennis Poore for no obvious reason at all, and the guy who thought Eddie Jordan was a commentator. They live among us. Bretonbanquet (talk) 20:51, 6 April 2016 (UTC)

Did you also notice that there's some new reviewer bloke knocking Taki back. XTV XTC? 1 Tvz? something like that!! :P Obviously picked up on the discussions I had with reviewers after I got cross!

You really aren't going to like what Taki has done at Wikipedia:Articles for creation/Redirects scroll down to the bottom: I can't understand how he keeps coming back for more...thick-skinned or what. I've tipped off the helpful ed. again. I did a couple of those Taki edits myself I think. Dean might be a while yet, need to look up stuff after he stopped CanAm. (Aurora, US F5000). That Poore edit ...urgh... EJ will be moved to something more suitable in due course. DH is on it. RL was a real a**e last week had to cancel 2 hospital appointments. Plod on. Eagleash (talk) 21:23, 6 April 2016 (UTC)

Didn't notice the new reviewer but I like his style already. It's not Tvx1, is it?!!

Lord, Taki never stops, does he? Endless Crap for Creation. I've reverted a couple of his edits today; he added non-championship results tables to a couple of car articles, but he clearly doesn't really know which cars were used in some races. No edit summaries, of course. Sorry to hear that RL is still playing silly buggers. I can't complain myself, so I should appreciate it while it lasts. That said, I have to be in Preston by 9am tomorrow, and it's nearly four hours away. Early starts have never been my strong point... Bretonbanquet (talk) 20:55, 7 April 2016 (UTC)

Could well be Tvx!! I looked at the T370 edit and I just could not see what he'd done. I do have trouble with tables rendering oddly from time to time though; possibly a browser or screen resolution issue. So I was happy to see it reverted. He's used at least 2 IPs today. Last week suggest bot sent me the Ferrari Tipo 500 and when I looked at it, it had been Taki-ed as had the 533 and 375 with a number of IPs we hadn't noticed. I did a table for the 500, works cars only with appropriate heading. (intending to add non-works later...maybe...). Yep he added non-works to it, making the headings and ref a nonsense. Funny, that edit isn't there anymore. Preston? Blame them for Ricky Heppolette... I'd completely forgotten there's a 9 in the morning too... RL is better this week but have to wait 2 months for re-scheduled appts. Eagleash (talk) 21:49, 7 April 2016 (UTC)

The IP has now been trying to restore Fittipaldi F8 and has been removing content from Eagleash's talkpage. Tvx1 18:25, 8 April 2016 (UTC)

Yes he has. He had a particularly disruptive few minutes during afternoon break today. He re-did the FW & T370 edits that were undone yesterday (ignoring the ed summaries) as well as trying to restore the f8. I knocked them all back so then he removed a comment about him (by a completely uninvolved ed.) from my TP. Urgh. Eagleash (talk) 18:32, 8 April 2016 (UTC)

I couldn't see what he'd done either. The bits I could see included info he'd either guessed or got wrong, and I wasn't interested in picking out any correct bits he'd done. Just reverted the lot. Your experience with the Tipo 500 makes me wonder just how much damage this bloke has done. But Wikipedia will allow floating IPs – great, till you get a disruptive one and then you simply cannot keep up with the sod. Removing people's talk page comments, eh? Add that one to the list. Heppolette, there's a blast from the past. I think he was rather better for us than he was for you! He's quite well regarded down our way. Preston at 9, and Lytham St Annes by 10, as it turned out. Spent the rest of the day trawling around knackered industrial towns like Nelson and Accrington. Darwen. Oswaldtwistle. I do know how to live. Bretonbanquet (talk) 23:26, 8 April 2016 (UTC)

It's not the first time he's rm'd TP comments. He took out one of mine on Tvx's page a bit before the ANI (failed). Heppoloette..weird buy by Venables when we had Holder and Jump in that pos. OK, M. Hinshelwood was finished and Jeffries and Johnson J. had gone from the Allison team. RH packed off to Chesterfield within a couple of months! Standing by for a big Taki-blitz today. Oh...the discussion here re merger needs closing as 'No'. As you haven't commented... if you would be so kind. That's a lot of places I've never been to. I've been to Lancashire...if you count Anfield that is. Eagleash (talk) 11:41, 9 April 2016 (UTC)

The FW has been protected and I've requested same for the F8. Eagleash (talk) 12:15, 9 April 2016 (UTC)

More! Ensign draft MfD here Eagleash (talk) 14:38, 9 April 2016 (UTC)

Has there been any activity of the IP over the weekend. Tvx1 11:35, 18 April 2016 (UTC)

Tvx1 Yes here and here. However has (apparently) been very quiet since Saturday 9 April. Those are the only edits I've noticed. Could be others as I occasionally find things he did months ago which didn't get spotted at the time. Eagleash (talk) 12:12, 18 April 2016 (UTC)

I spotted that first IP but not the second. Just ridiculous, the number of IPs he uses. I haven't had time to check but what's the score with his edit on Lola T370? He says it wasn't used in non-championship races in 1975, but I think it was him who put that table up in the first place. Did we establish whether it was used then or not? Bretonbanquet (talk) 20:55, 18 April 2016 (UTC)

He's right STOM used T371/HU1 (pre change to GH1) per Jenks report of RoC. Eagleash (talk) 21:01, 18 April 2016 (UTC)

Ta. You used "he's right" in a sentence relating to Taki. Surely some kind of record! Well, at least he can correct himself occasionally. Bretonbanquet (talk) 21:06, 18 April 2016 (UTC)

Someone needs to archive this page...but it makes interesting reading from time to time... Taki was right about the re-naming of the de Tomaso cars too if I remember rightly... 118 IP addresses. Think I need a wiki-break; really... Eagleash (talk) 22:37, 18 April 2016 (UTC)

About the Cosworth article, is it really necessary to have that huge list of every F1 entrant that has used a cosworth engine at some point during F1 history? About the Lola, I'll note that it's the IP who added Rolf Stommelen using the Hill GH1 at the 1975 ROC to the Hill GH1 article. Rolf Stommelen's article lists him as using the T370 during that race. Our articles are thus contradicting each other. Anyone got external sources as to which car he used? Tvx1 15:10, 19 April 2016 (UTC)

Tvx1 Yes, see above, Jenks report of the RoC says he used T371/HU1. Link here. Eagleash (talk) 15:27, 19 April 2016 (UTC)

Thanks. That's exactly what I had been looking for. I had been searching the Motorsport Magazine site myself, but hadn't found anything yet. This means we have to make our articles consistent now. Tvx1 15:37, 19 April 2016 (UTC)

Tvx1 I've update STOM's page: There's a grey area as to when the name changed from T371 to GH1 it was sometime in March/April that year and this was the best that extensive research by BB & I, when IP first became a prob., could ascertain. Eagleash (talk) 15:42, 19 April 2016 (UTC)

He's back here commented at the Ensign MfD (copying your wording I believe) and also requested re-dirs for Lola T100 & T102 which we've deleted once already. Eagleash (talk) 11:34, 23 April 2016 (UTC)

Those redirect have been created. Tvx1 22:24, 25 April 2016 (UTC)

Yes. I was in discussion with the ed. who accepted them and who is now aware of our problems. In the end it's difficult to deny the re-directs as they are in the target page. Both re-directs have the 'hidden advice' that an article should not be created without initiating a discussion at the project. Eagleash (talk) 22:32, 25 April 2016 (UTC)

To us, those are always going to be pretty pointless redirects, but Wikipedia loves creating pointless redirects. Good spot that Taki copied my wording from elsewhere; the cheek of the guy is incredible. Bretonbanquet (talk) 22:47, 25 April 2016 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/New Wave of British Heavy Metal/archive1

I started the procedure to have the New Wave of British Heavy Metal article promoted to WP:FA. Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/New Wave of British Heavy Metal/archive1 needs discussants. Since you were a contributor to the article, I am hoping you might give some comments. Lewismaster (talk) 09:01, 10 April 2016 (UTC)

A debate has risen during the review about the term "movement" used to describe the NWOBHM. It would be greatly appreciated if you could add your opinion on the matter. Lewismaster (talk) 08:05, 16 April 2016 (UTC)

Besmircher

Besmircher has never properly sourced his contributions or added links correctly. Other editors have left him messages about it and nothing has changed. He even includes [his] observations based on common sense. — JJMC89 (T·C) 20:22, 12 April 2016 (UTC)

Table templates

Hi! I cant understand, whats happened with a promotion/relegation templates recently? We need to add   to a large number of a leagues in a large number of a seasons. If there is a way do to it somehow automatically? Martinklavier (talk) 07:56, 19 April 2016 (UTC)

We solved the problem today, so I deleted non-breaking spaces from tables of Isthmian and Southern League. Martinklavier (talk) 11:16, 20 April 2016 (UTC)

Dean

Hasn't it gone quiet?... worrying... Still it seems there's plenty of other Taki-esque editors out there....

I think I've got about as far as I can with Tony Dean. Would you mind taking a look here. I think it's a bit long (& a bit dull too). On an associated note I was thinking about Keith Holland who won that 1969 Madrid GP where Dean finished 2nd (or 3rd) but not convinced about about notability? He didn't achieve much else as far as I can tell. The winning car in that race was restored as part of the TV series Salvage Squad in 2004... recently repeated on Quest. Eagleash (talk) 21:43, 28 April 2016 (UTC)

You may also like to know that after multiple complaints at their talk-page, someone has taken a reviewer we know to ANI. Here if you feel you'd like to comment. It's not just us. Eagleash (talk) 04:09, 29 April 2016 (UTC)

Haha! A bit dull? Why? Are you casting aspersions about Dean's exciting career or your opinion of your own writing? I think it's fine! It's detailed and well sourced, I don't see any shortcomings there at all. Only thing I might do is create more sections to break it up a bit. Holland – yeah, technically he's notable as he "competed in Formula One" but there's little value in creating something if we haven't got much to say about him. Odd that he didn't do much else. Ah, Salvage Squad, intriguing at times, but always slightly depressing to watch as the costs involved sadly put that kind of thing beyond my own dreams! I'd love to resurrect old cars in that way. Bretonbanquet (talk) 15:27, 30 April 2016 (UTC)

My writing, dreary... I had considered breaking it up a bit but it didn't fall naturally so it's now got 3 artificially created sections (instead of 2). I've moved it into mainspace and it's already been reviewed (not by ST) but annoyingly hasn't yet shown up in my articles created. 2 others moved later have... typical wiki. I'll see what I can find on Holland. Eagleash (talk) 20:10, 30 April 2016 (UTC)

I don't think your writing's dreary :) That would make mine dreary too, and I can't accept that! Has it shown up in your articles created yet? I find mine to be rather randomly updated as well. Bretonbanquet (talk) 21:51, 1 May 2016 (UTC)

Haha...well OK then...no it still hasn't shown up in articles created...none of the three 'submitted' correctly either, but all have been reviewed. I'll have to ask I 'spose. I've started something on Holland, there's enough out there to make something of it. Eagleash (talk) 17:29, 3 May 2016 (UTC)

He's back here and there's Draft:Template:Reg Parnell Racing. Hmmm. Eagleash (talk) 16:17, 8 May 2016 (UTC)

Look forward to the Holland piece. I've been away on real life business – nothing changes here though, does it? Good to see the draft template was declined. Bretonbanquet (talk) 23:38, 10 May 2016 (UTC)

He's re-submitted. The colours are less 1967, but still hard to read. Does the template have any uses? I can only think it could go on the pages of both Reg and Tim Parnell, Parnell Racing obv. and Yeoman Credit Racing. The cars sub-template (sic) is pointless as Parnell was never a constructor. I've been mulling over whether to MfD it... Holland will be a while yet I expect. There's gaps in his career that I'm finding it hard to find stuff on. Trust RL isn't being a so-and-so... noted the absence... not least cos JBW didn't pop into my watchlist! We might need him for Wembley...Souare is always one lunge away from a lengthy ban...oh wait Mariappa... no as you were. Eagleash (talk) 23:56, 10 May 2016 (UTC)

He has now been changing the Embassy Hill into "Embassy Racing with Graham Hill" on multiple articles. Any idea whether that name has actually been used? Tvx1 18:56, 13 May 2016 (UTC)

I think he might have done that before and we just changed it back, IIRC. I do seem to remember the name from the time. However, Small, (1994) has Graham entered by 'Embassy Racing with GH' in both 1974 and '75, when using the Lola (derived) cars, but just Embassy Racing in '73 with the Shadow. Same with STOM in '74 &'5. Motor Sport mag just seems to refer to the team as 'Embassy Lola'. They don't habitually include 'entrants' in their results tables, so it's just in the text. Eagleash (talk) 19:33, 13 May 2016 (UTC)

Also Draft:Surtees TS14. Eagleash (talk) 21:28, 13 May 2016 (UTC)

And, Draft:Surtees TS19. The TS14 has been submitted but is full of the usual grammatical mistakes. Should be rejected on that basis alone. Eagleash (talk) 20:04, 16 May 2016 (UTC)

More stupid drafts. They ought to be rejected, looking at past actions. The "Embassy Racing with Graham Hill" name was real, I think, as GH was a major draw at that time. I've seen it too in Small, and elsewhere. Haven't got a major problem with that. What happened with the Parnell template? Totally pointless. I reverted Taki earlier for some more pointless fettling somewhere. RL is being stressful in personal terms, although I can't claim any "real" problems. I'm sure you don't need me to elucidate the vagaries of the opposite sex. Ah, JBW – no longer an Orient-eer! He was moderately useful, to be fair, although I can't see you ever needing him. We dumped half our squad today in usual circus fashion, so we might end up buying him from you... sigh. Bretonbanquet (talk) 21:26, 17 May 2016 (UTC)

I declined the TS14 draft because none of the provided sources actually discusses the car or its performance making it impossible to assess notability. The sources are just routine listings of the race results. Tvx1 18:09, 18 May 2016 (UTC)

Its grammar needs lots of work too, as usual. Also he's copied a ref I wrote from Hill GH1 which has no relevance to the Surtees. The Parnell template was rejected a second time for accessibility reasons. As you say it appears pointless... personally I can't see much use for it. If it rejects again then MfD and if accepted, TfD possibly? Opposite sex? Ah yes I think I remember... I think I might prefer that sort of thing (maybe not) to being attached to a blood pressure monitor the last 2 days. Checks every half-hour. We'll accept any nearly sensible offer for JBW. Eagleash (talk) 19:34, 18 May 2016 (UTC)

Good work rejecting that draft, Tvx. Shame Taki is so persistent; you'd think he'd actually learn from all this stuff being rejected. Yes to TfDing the Parnell template if it ever materialises fully. Ha. I would take double the current levels of unfathomably complicated grief I'm receiving over being attached to a blood pressure monitor. However difficult one's life becomes on one level, there are always worse levels. You have my best wishes for a speedy improvement. I offer you two buttons and a half-eaten cheese sandwich for JBW. Bretonbanquet (talk) 21:11, 18 May 2016 (UTC)

The IP has finally created an account. Tvx1 20:32, 19 May 2016 (UTC)

Good and bad. This means he can now create all kinds of rubbish without any checks and balances from anyone else, but it also means that he can be blocked more easily if he causes too much trouble. Bretonbanquet (talk) 20:37, 19 May 2016 (UTC)

(edit conflict) Yep spotted that and posted at the project talk-page. Here are his contribs thus far. 2 rubbish articles created and some fettling as ever. The Eiffeland needs to go straight out in my view, closely followed by the CRP1. I don't know what he's done to the TS14 draft... but he seems to have removed a substantial amount of it. Oh wait...he's recreated it in mainspace...he can't do that can he? Copy and paste? Are we happy that the TS14 is notable enough (Taki's efforts notwithstanding)?

As far as BP is concerned it's improving but I don't recommend the "ambulatory" (as they call it) testing. The cuff is tighter and at greater pressure than a normal BP testing thingy. Not sure I'd swap places though. :P Proably will next month when I have to go in for an Angiogram. Really not looking forward to that. Eagleash (talk) 20:53, 19 May 2016 (UTC)

Right, let's see... he gets his draft rejected, so he registers and creates the article anyway. Is that allowed? I suspect it's at least pretty cheeky. The Eifelland car article needs to be merged to the team article toute suite, and the Lec one as well. TS 14 notability... not sure. I'm probably narrowly in favour of it, but it's a poor article as it stands.

Glad you're seeing improvement, but it doesn't sound pleasant at all. I was never keen on the normal BP test. An angiogram is another thing I've never had, mercifully, so the very best of luck with that. I have a red letter day next Tuesday in the personal RL department so we'll see if there's anything left of my nerves after that. A case of me biting off way more than I can chew, I suspect. Bretonbanquet (talk) 21:24, 19 May 2016 (UTC)

It wasn't too bad just a bit uncomfortable and a nuisance! Angiogram is a whole different level though. Unless someone does it in the meantime, I will merge one or both of those tomorrow. (Taki won't like it). TS14 couple of points finishes for Carlos Pace; not much otherwise. Borderline. Eagleash (talk) 22:41, 19 May 2016 (UTC)

I've merged the CRP to LEC Refrigeration Racing. Perhaps you could check for glaring errors, if you would be so kind. Thanks. Eagleash (talk) 00:16, 20 May 2016 (UTC)

Ditto with the Eifelland 21 to Eifelland. Anthony Appleyad has sorted the history muddle caused by Taki's C&P and another ed. has left a message on his talk-page. Not that he'll take any notice. Eagleash (talk) 11:22, 20 May 2016 (UTC)

You have to credit Taki's nerve (or possibly lack of it). He's now created re-directs for ATS 100 and de Tomaso 801. On each he's copied the hidden advice left on other re-directs not to restore the page! Considering that it was aimed at him... ! Eagleash (talk) 18:11, 20 May 2016 (UTC)

Now there's Penske PC1 and Template:Team Penske in Formula One. Eagleash (talk) 21:26, 20 May 2016 (UTC)

Good work with Lec and Eifelland – I see that Taki never actually complains when we undo his work. It's like he's a rogue bot or something. There's no way articles on that ATS and the de Tomaso could stand, so they'll go the same way if he creates them. The Penske is a slightly less obvious one; I'm not sure at the moment. I really wish we had better criteria on this. Rubbish article though, of course, as usual. I very much doubt we need the template... Bretonbanquet (talk) 10:29, 21 May 2016 (UTC)

First off... Bollocks!! (Footy). Taki doesn't seem to notice, at least some of the time, cos he has tried restoring things in the past. Penske... PC1 is less notable than the Surtees TS14, one points finish for Donohue and little else...and a team in itself not all that prominent in F1 terms. It looks like someone tried to speedy the Penske in Formula One template, but it seems to have gone wrong somehow as an admin has unspeedied it as it was corrupting AfD. The notice is still there though but the content has vanished (as far as it appears to me anyway) and it doesn't seem to show up if you click on the discussion link. We already have Template:Penske Racing cars &, for the US, Template:Team Penske. Oh it looks like Taki requested deletion, it seems to have gone but I'm not sure how. I'm sure admin will clear up the mess later. Eagleash (talk) 20:01, 21 May 2016 (UTC)

Aha Template:Penske Cars. Looks like another copy and paste job. Eagleash (talk) 20:08, 21 May 2016 (UTC)

It looks like he somehow messed up the links and the V-T-E symbols took you to the wrong place so he requested deletion, blanked the page and copied it. He's also created a template for British Racing Partnership (see their page) where the V-T-E symbols take you to Template:BRP (try it see what you get!) I've asked for help from one of the eds mentioned above re Surtees. Really we need to stop this somehow. Eagleash (talk) 21:05, 21 May 2016 (UTC)

FFS. This guy is really giving me the ache. It's actually putting me off doing anything constructive, to be honest. I'm with you on the PC1, you're right, it doesn't really warrant its own article. The whole team is pretty obscure in general terms, although it shone fairly brightly for a brief time. That Penske template deletion is a little confusing; hopefully an admin or knowledgable gnome will spot that. The "new" Penske template is pointless, especially as the PC1 article should go anyway. Likewise the BRP template, seriously, so many useless templates. I got the correct template when I clicked on the V-T-E symbols, but the template still has basically nothing in it. No car articles, for a start. Bretonbanquet (talk) 21:28, 21 May 2016 (UTC)

I seem to have done nothing since Thursday evening except Taki around. What do you get when you click on the template BRP link above? I get the Filipino Navy whose ships are called BRP etc. That's what I get when I click on the symbols (once I've used a magnifying glass to read them...blue on green for pity's sake...). That's weird... it's not been fixed cos I just tried it again. I think I might ask at the help desk too. I'm not optimistic about the ed I mentioned. Eagleash (talk) 21:40, 21 May 2016 (UTC)

Help-desk gave the answers. It had already been fixed but a cache/purge type issue meant you could see it and I couldn't. I've fiddled with the colours to make it accessible and removed non-constructed cars and one driver. Still pointless though overall. BTW Swister has been dragged to ANI again having not got any better after the last time. Eagleash (talk) 00:09, 22 May 2016 (UTC)

If the Penske PC1 was to be merged, where would it be merged to? There's Team Penske where F1 forms only a small part of the article. The PC1 page has come in for some attention by a couple of editors (one of them a reviewer) who are/were confused about retiring from the sport generally and retiring from individual races. (See the PC1 talk-page). An IP even went through the page taking out all the uses of retire replacing it with 'leave the race' or 'abandon the race' or something just as unwieldy. I left a message on their talk-page. As you say 'they live amongst us'. & Taki has been back today, editing whilst logged out at one point!

I seem to recall you saying Tues was a crucial point in RL. Trust it worked out OK. I had a very minor boost re tests etc. Whether you need something to take your mind off things or a sort of celebration maybe, Motor Sport at the Palace is this weekend, (as you said you might be interested in getting along to it). Eagleash (talk) 19:40, 24 May 2016 (UTC)

That template issue was confusing me, I must say - glad to see it was a tech issue and not further evidence of my growing insanity :) I was amused to see the PC1 talk page - maybe someone should be sticking to other types of article!! That page is a bit of a shambles, but at least it's readable thanks to you. Merge... hmm, you have a point. I was somehow under the impression there was a "Penske in Formula One" page but apparently not. Should there be? It would at least make a useful target when we scrap Taki's crappy articles.

Tuesday was a bit of a red letter day, and it was good. Not quite as good as it briefly promised to be, but good. Sometimes thirty seconds with someone is all you need to put your mind at ease, slightly anyway. Good to hear you had a boost, however minor. All improvements are welcome! And damn - I'd forgotten that was this weekend. I've been dragged home to Cornwall for a couple of days. I could have used a day out surrounded by old cars and like-minded folk. Thanks for reminding me though - another time, definitely. Bretonbanquet (talk) 19:36, 26 May 2016 (UTC)

Taki has been rather quiet again the last few days but has returned and re-created the Fittipaldi F6 page which was previously deleted as a copy-vio. I can't get the copy-vio tool to act correctly so not certain this time, but experience tell us he stole it from somewhere. On another note the Draft:Template:Reg Parnell Racing seems to have been forgotten (by Taki) but I definitely think it should go to MfD. Not a constructor so not certain a t/plate is even appropriate. He's also been fiddling with car names at RAM, I don't think he has a clue really so I might yet just restore an earlier version. On another note I spotted the creation of ATS D5 and March CG891, not by Taki but by an editor of much longer standing...not sure either of them deserve a page...borderline at best...

There's always next year at the Palace. I'm sure we'll still be tidying up after Taki then... Like minded people & old cars? Doesn't that describe Cornwall for you? Most episodes of Shed and Buried seem to take place in Cornwall. I can say that....couple of generations back = Redruth. Stronger family ties now with Bideford. Eagleash (talk) 16:17, 28 May 2016 (UTC)

Oh no... RAM March 01. I think it should be re-directed. & Category:RAM Formula One cars CfD? Eagleash (talk) 18:38, 28 May 2016 (UTC)

And, RAM 02 usual nonsense and Template:RAM Racing (useless). & what is this supposed to be? Category would only cover 2 cars one of which never raced.

To my mind, he's somewhat out of control and really should just be blocked indef. but we know what admin think about that. Eagleash (talk) 17:00, 30 May 2016 (UTC)

He's been particularly busy (somewhat disruptively so) in the last couple of days. Must be half-term. Eagleash (talk) 18:18, 1 June 2016 (UTC)

The Fittipaldi F6 is the usual rubbish from Taki, probably a copyvio of some sort, but even then he still manages to make it awful. You'd think if he were going to copy something, it would at least be readable. Not keen at all on his RAM articles; classic merge to the team article stuff. I find myself reluctant to clean up after him in the hopes that he finally effs off and we can just do a general cleanup after he's gone. But it's clear by now that he won't do that of his own accord. He should definitely be blocked as a disruptive, non-interacting PITA, but for some reason, we F1 types don't count when it comes to objecting about anything. I'm not super-keen on the ATS and March articles either, but they're at least readable. I guess they're not the least of our worries. I do wonder whether it's time to set out clear criteria for F1 car notability at the WikiProject, so we can just draw a line with ease regarding this stuff.

Haha, yeah, Cornwall is basically that. Half the old cars in Cornwall are probably mine anyway. Redruth, eh? Glorious town. My mum lives there and I lived around there for many years. Good honest folk, those of them that can walk in a straight line. Bretonbanquet (talk) 18:34, 1 June 2016 (UTC)

I think I've been to Redruth but it was sure a long time ago now. Taki has created all sorts of re-directs and categories...remember those (sub) Williams categories he requested and had declined? (Iso Marlboro etc.). Yes well..he's got an account now hasn't he... and the production line of non-notable car articles continues.... Parnelli VPJ4. And templates... He's also requested on all their talk-pages that all the Merzario 'A' cars be merged...I don't think any of them have an article anyway. I don't understand why he continues...as you say above, it kind of puts one off trying to do any constructive editing. Eagleash (talk) 19:16, 1 June 2016 (UTC)

However long ago it was, I can guarantee Redruth hasn't changed ;) Yes, I noticed Taki's category efforts, sadly. Load of garbage. That Parnelli article is a copyvio all day long - there's no way Taki wrote that. The only good thing about him posting on obscure talk pages is that nobody but us will ever look there. He's really talking to himself. Bretonbanquet (talk) 19:39, 1 June 2016 (UTC)

Well, a good deal of it is copied from Vel's Parnelli Jones Racing... he's not supposed to do that without attribution is he... Eagleash (talk) 22:18, 1 June 2016 (UTC)

Are we happy to re-direct the RAM cars to the team page? Could merge but I don't really think it's worth trying to expand the team page with more detail about either car(?). Also there's Ensign N179 & Theodore TR1, two more completely non-notable efforts from the clipboard of our least favourite editor. They can just be re-directed I think? With all his nonsense some brave person might be tempted to request a topic-ban. :P Eagleash (talk) 12:54, 2 June 2016 (UTC)

Yes, plus if an editor is creating an article that consists of nothing but information copy/pasted from another article, then it's pretty clear there's no point in creating it.

Yes, I'd say so. Both the RAM cars were pretty bad, and I'd say not notable in themselves. The team article could include info about those cars but it's hardly essential. It would need to be decently written, for a start. I'd say redirect the Ensign and Theodore pages as well. Sod Taki, and sod his efforts. We could request a topic ban but my money's on us beign ignored again. Bretonbanquet (talk) 21:10, 3 June 2016 (UTC)

I've had an idea... if we create re-directs for cars he hasn't got to yet (RAM 03), (Ensign N177) (Ensign N180) and whatever others we can find...and then leave the 'hidden advice' on the page as we've used before (which does seem to deter him) maybe that would restrict his efforts. There is the possibility that it contravenes some guideline or other and I've run it past Sam Sailor who knows more about the oily bits of Wiki, and is aware of prob., but not had reply as yet. Eagleash (talk) 21:33, 3 June 2016 (UTC)

I think that's a pretty good idea; anything's worth a shot. Anything that might put this guy off creating more garbage is worth the effort. It'd be nice to get a little help from someone who knows the ins and outs of guideline contravention too, as we're not too hot on that. It's like we're really on our own with Taki and it shouldn't be that way. Bretonbanquet (talk) 21:45, 3 June 2016 (UTC)

Still no reply from Sam...seems he might be away. I've re-directed the RAM cars. I'll think about doing the others a bit later... It feels a bit mean somehow... Eagleash (talk) 23:32, 3 June 2016 (UTC)

Also, now Martini MK23, Brabham BT34, Penske PC3 & Template:Vel's Parnelli Jones Racing in Formula One. Maybe the Brabham (lobster claw) might squeak by notability. I imagine you've seen the proj. TP? De F means well & I understand what he is saying, but he's missed an awful lot and like other Eds. (from outside the proj.) when they've become involved, is/are/would be surprised at the extent of the problem. Eagleash (talk) 11:33, 4 June 2016 (UTC)

He's restored the RAM March 01 and RAM 02 pages. Whilst logged out of course; along with no edit summaries and failing to attribute his copying from other pages. Eagleash (talk) 19:30, 5 June 2016 (UTC)

I've reverted the RAM pages. It's just not acceptable to log out and revert someone, ignoring guidelines and instructions. I'll accept the Brabham page, but the others aren't notable enough. That Martini is a classic example of a non-notable F1 car. I've just seen the WP talk page and I shall wade in there shortly. Bretonbanquet (talk) 21:39, 5 June 2016 (UTC)

He created the Penske PC3 whilst logged out. Logged in to move it and then seemingly logged out again. He breaks a good number of rules or conventions all the time. I think his copying comes mainly from Polish Wiki and he runs it through a translator of sorts (maybe the 'onboard' one) and then just plonks it down without checking the wording. I left advice on one of his TPs back in Feb about capital letters for car parts, sentences ending with stops not commas etc. etc. but he just removed it. Good work on the RAMs and the TP. Eagleash (talk) 11:07, 6 June 2016 (UTC)

My longest wikibreak ever, I think. The worrying thing is that I didn't miss it at all! At least partly Taki's fault, that. How's it been? Bretonbanquet (talk) 20:11, 15 June 2016 (UTC)

A wikibreak. I think I could do with one of those. I'm getting increasingly jaded with Wiki (& some wikipedians...not just Taki!) It's been pretty quiet not much activity from him. After going a bit mad a couple of weeks ago, maybe schoolwork (exams) are keeping him busy. I heard back from Sam re the redirect idea. Apparently OK as long as we word it quite 'softly' and include a reason. I've gone back and re-done the ones I can recall where we've re-dir'd already and also created re-directs for Ensign N175, N177 and N180, and RAM 03. Holland article progresses slowly, might even finish it one day...

Hope the break was not courtesy of RL problems. Eagleash (talk) 19:51, 16 June 2016 (UTC)

I recommend it! I'm starting to find the whole Wikipedia culture a bit of a pain in the b-side, to be honest. I have to say I'm still not missing it. The break(s) are caused by RL issues, but not problems as such, thankfully. Just really really busy. Hope your own RL issues are under control. Sam's input seems pretty sound advice, as it will hopefully cover us later if there are any comebacks. Haha, Holland won't mind waiting for his article!! Bretonbanquet (talk) 21:48, 21 June 2016 (UTC)

Merger discussion for Decentralized autonomous organization

An article that you have been involved in editing—Decentralized autonomous organization—has been proposed for merging with another article. If you are interested, please participate in the merger discussion. Thank you. Jtbobwaysf (talk) 17:47, 20 May 2016 (UTC)

Holland

Thought it might be time to start yet another new section. I think I know what you mean...days when I made quite a lot of (hopefully) constructive edits seem quite long ago now & I seem to end up 'tinkering around' with things...often involving tidying some Taki-esque level of WP:CIR edits. And yes, there's a strange 'ethic' (for want of a better word) running through Wikipedia... and the odd 'nutter on the bus'... Anyways, I think I might have got as far as I can with Holland here, if you aren't too busy to take a look... still not entirely sure as to notabilty really. Talking of which, I've begun to fettle up the Fittipaldi F8, but I'm not sure that it's really worth saving. I think we did say it was the writing and not notability that was the prob. but it only scored 2 lowly points finishes in about 50 overall attempts. The article in its pre-redirect state is here. (I've got most of the grammatical nonsense sorted in a sandbox). Any thoughts? On another issue would Don Parker be likely to pass notability? Three-time British F3 champ and still the most successful F3 driver. I've got a page started but not by much, so not a prob. to scrap it.

RL is still being a bit of an a**e...I've had enough of it now... Trust your RL 'issues' are all good ones. Palace have released a few players but not JBW...yet. How did Ramage get on with your lot? Eagleash (talk) 21:07, 22 June 2016 (UTC)

Update:Draft:Boro 001, that's the renamed Ensign mentioned somewhere above and already deleted once, MFD'd here. Also Parnell template MFD'd here. Eagleash (talk) 15:11, 25 June 2016 (UTC)

Good call on the new section! Yes, I rarely feel like sitting down and actually writing something or rewriting what someone else has done. I either tinker or do updates on music articles that I started and have a continuing interest in. I suspect I'll return to editing more seriously at some stage, but it might not be for a while. Definitely a few nutters on the bus, that's for sure, and they sort of wear you down in the end. I think the Holland piece is your usual decent stuff! Definitely notable in my view - plenty of sources to satisfy GNG and a decent career in fact. I think there's a tendency to ignore drivers of that type from the past, but if he were current, there'd be no question of notability. Some of today's drivers have done sod all in comparison to guys like Holland, yet they have articles... Parker likewise - a three-time British F3 champ is definitely notable, in my view. Fittipaldi F8 - I'm a bit torn. Not a great car, but if there are enough sources then I don't see why it can't stay. Basically my view is if it's well written and reasonably substantial, I'm OK with it.

Sorry to hear RL is still being an ass. Light at the end of the tunnel? My issues are ongoing, and they do prey on my mind somewhat, but I can't say it's "bad". I just let certain things take over my mind at the expense of everything else. Always been that way, can't seem to fight it. Can't believe you haven't got shot of JBW, does he have embarrassing pictures of the chairman? Ramage was pretty ordinary, but that made him relatively decent in our squad. We didn't use him a great deal for some reason, but he always did a solid job. Bretonbanquet (talk) 22:53, 26 June 2016 (UTC)

Thanks. I've moved the Holland to mainspace, but once again it didn't seem to submit properly; but at least it shows up in articles created...Dean still hasn't. I asked Sam Sailor about that and he suggested VPT but I didn't get an answer. I note you commented at Parnell MfD, but it was the Boro/Ensign that was created twice not Parnell.:P Talking of the Boro 001, Taki removed the MfD tag whilst logged out and then logged in and moved it to mainspace. I then turned it into a redirect etc. I left a warning (for the 2nd time) on his TP about editing whilst logged out... he blanked it. I also left warnings about removing tags and not using ES. Not blanked yet. He has also enraged 359 by creating an unnecessary page for Ford Chip Ganassi Racing, together with a template! 359 has left several messages at the TP, but I've told him he's wasting his time and he should just merge or re-dir as appropriate. On a happier F1 note I got a copy of Small (3rd edition, 2000) for a quid on Saturday (local church fetes have their uses). So now have info. on later 1990s drivers too. I'll continue with Parker, (& the f8) but I fear it may take some convincing of other motorsport editors when it comes to GNG.

Re JBW if you can make it 3 buttons and a dab of pickle on the sarnie, I'm sure that nice Mr. Super Al will accept. Ramage could do a good job for someone still I think. He was a big part of the 2012-13 promotion season for Palace, hence the 2 year contract he got thereafter. And I think he's been released by Coventry.

RL is OK (ish) at the moment, had an ultrasound of the heart last week, which was fine but still got angiogram to enjoy.

Has Cornwall declared independence yet? Eagleash (talk) 10:30, 27 June 2016 (UTC)

Draft:Ensign N176 That's one I missed. Damn. Eagleash (talk) 17:26, 27 June 2016 (UTC)

Make that two Draft:Ensign N174. I do remember looking at these and thinking... maybe later that's enough re-directs for the moment. Eagleash (talk) 19:01, 27 June 2016 (UTC)

Update; Taki was particularly annoying (and abusive) today (Weds.) As it was ongoing I took it to AIV, but we've ended up at ANI again. Hope we can get some assistance this time... Eagleash (talk) 23:47, 29 June 2016 (UTC)

Thanks for pointing out my error at MfD; I've clearly had too much experience of Taki. Well done on bagging that copy of Small - I find the later editions quite hard to find now, maybe they didn't sell as well. Fantastic books, and essential for the kind of thing we're doing (sometimes, in my case). I'll have a look at the ANI entry; it looks like Taki has reached another breaking point, if that makes sense. Upsetting other editors is bad for them, but good for us; if more editors see what a pain he is, that can only be a good thing.

I'm not sure we can stretch to three buttons for JBW - we're paying the youth team in buttons so they're in short supply. I'm sure Ramage will find a berth somewhere, clearly a half decent player. We've signed a French defender today, Yvan Erichot... I don't know where we find them. Maybe he'll be fantastic, just glad he's not Belgian, given their defensive performance this evening!

Cornwall still working on independence - I was disappointed to see we leaned towards leaving the EU last week, given that everything that is built or improved in Cornwall is done so with EU money. Ah well, back to the stone age, I guess. Glad your RL issues are a little improved, fingers crossed for continued betterment! Bretonbanquet (talk) 22:24, 1 July 2016 (UTC)

I don't hold out much hope re: ANI. However much we put in there it's still just the tip of the iceberg, when you think of all the pages that have had to be sorted out after he's had a go at them. The copy-vios, gibberish like the Lotus 64 and all the copy pasting. If he was working on footy articles I can't help thinking that Snowman or Matty would have red-carded him long long ago. There's a lot of editors who are aware of the probs. but without canvassing (not allowed!) it's unlikely they will give any input at ANI.

My local library holds second edition 'Small' which it doesn't lend out, so that's always there if needed. But I think you're possibly right about the later books not selling...

Paddy McCarthy and Brede Hangeland have also been released by Palace and if want a forward Chamakh and Adebayor. Let Dwight Gayle go to Newcastle plus some dosh for Andros Townsend. Bought yet another keeper too. Ledley & Joniesta doing sterling work for Wales but barely figure at Palace.

RL has been a pig the last few days and now my laptop is infected...barely working...I won't be able to get it to the mender's till Monday week so basically might not be able to contribute much for the next 3 or 4 weeks. Good luck with Taki!! Eagleash (talk) 13:05, 2 July 2016 (UTC)

Draft:Ensign N181. MfD here. Eagleash (talk) 19:25, 4 July 2016 (UTC)

No, me neither. And my God, exactly. If Taki were operating almost anywhere else, he'd have been stamped out long before now. Why is it that F1, and especially historic F1, is such a free-for-all? The other side of the coin is that nobody will stick up for Taki either and we can (if we can be bothered) deal with him without fear of sanction from the holy order above.

I always thought Hangeland was a decent player - surplus to requirements? As for your Welsh players I think there a few clubs out there thinking, uh, hang on, why does this plank never play like this for us?! We had Townsend at Orient for a while a few years ago and at that level he was class, but even then he would go missing sometimes...

Sorry to hear about RL, may it go easier on you. And ugh to your infected laptop!! Technology... I swear I would have been happier in the 18th century. I may spot Taki here and there but RL is still busy and about to get busier. Let's hope he has a quiet period! Bretonbanquet (talk) 20:21, 4 July 2016 (UTC)

Might be last post for a little while: going into hospital tomorrow (Thurs). Taki has been a bit of a pain again. See Ensign N181 where he twice removed the MfD notice in a matter of minutes, whilst logged out, before logging in and moving it to mainspace. It needs re-directing...the carefully worded 'hidden advice' (approved by Sam) can be found at the RAM 02 or LEC CRP1 pages. Ditto with Ensign N174. Added some reports to ANI...wonder if it will do any good. Probably not. He and this editor being somewhat disingenuous and claiming 'major geographical locations' doesn't mean countries (even after he was told differently at the MoS/linking talk-page) and that 99.9% of bios have them linked, (!) really have put me off bothering much more. I've passed through, on Wiki, 30 bios in the last 2 days, only one has a link. As you say they live amongst us. But that 'preyed' on my mind...

We released Hangeland last year too but he wouldn't go came back. Now we've got Tompkins from West Ham and are chasing Benteke for pity's sake. Joniesta is still developing, hoping he can contribute for us in the future. Ledley is a good player but has been kept out by Cabaye and McArthur. McArthur was anonymous in the cup final and Jedinak looked a carthorse. Ledley had a broken leg or he'd have played instead of Jedi.

I'll have to take the laptop in next week so hopefully back 'around' about 10 days after that. Hoping I do not have to stay o'night in hospital, but they won't let me out if there's a complication (likely) or I've not got anyone around at home (not so likely) just in case. Eagleash (talk) 21:54, 6 July 2016 (UTC)

Draft:Tyrrell 007. It's a massive copy-vio. Asked for help; much good may it do us. Eagleash (talk) 22:00, 14 July 2016 (UTC)

Been largely absent again for a while. How's it going? I'm assuming you're not editing from hospital, now there'd be a thing. Hope it all went as planned, at least. I've come to accept that ANI is an example of people like us wasting their virtual breath, as it seems impossible to get anything done about people like Taki. We can either treat him harshly and try to deplete his contributions or let him destroy everything and walk away. Sadly I know which I'm closer to doing. Examples like your Alaney fellow have cropped up on my watchlist too - people who just push poor practice, falsehoods, schooloy errors etc, and take you to task for daring to correct them. I wonder if Wikipedia is but a reflection of the sad state of today's world - it's never had more problems than it does at the moment!

Benteke! Lord. Do you think you'll struggle to stay up this year? You're in danger of losing your yo-yo tag if you stay up again. Incidentally I wonder if Ledley with a broken leg is still a better bet than Jedinak.

What's the Tyrrell 007 draft a copy-vio of? I haven't looked but I don't doubt it for a second. Bretonbanquet (talk) 23:47, 15 July 2016 (UTC)

Funny you should say that. I did do at least one edit from hospital. I had a tablet with me (not really very good for Wiki) and there was free guest Wifi. (Not an NHS hosp.). They let me out on the Friday afternoon and the procedure wasn't too bad (thanks to some mild, still conscious, sedation). The results though, are not good. Possibly looking at 'Souness '92'. Not so good.

The Tyrrell draft was a copy-vio of ultimate car-page, and much of it has been deleted by Diannaa. This was only a day or so after she had extensively counselled him about copy-vios at Ensign N181 on the IP used at the time TP and Rowde's TP also. Another warning was left at the TP of the IP used to create the 007 draft.

In the meantime he's recreated the Politoys FX3, some of which at least, I think is also copy-vio. I will restore it to your later re-direct if you are in agreement.

He's also been back again here and here fiddling again with the Williams variations.

I agree the fact that Admin. etc. don't see his behaviour as disruptive, is kind of upsetting, and like you I am close to just wandering away and finding something else to do. I might have one more go at the ANI, see if I can explain the situation any better. After that I guess I'm done with it.

Next season might be a struggle but we could end up third again, like the last season (1990-91) after we lost to Man U in the cup final. Eagleash (talk) 10:50, 16 July 2016 (UTC)

Update. I've re-directed the Politoys. Eagleash (talk) 11:04, 16 July 2016 (UTC)

He's been at the Williams page again deleting vast amounts of content without explanation. Also tried to re-create Wolf-Williams Racing without discussing at the project as requested. I've done a couple of reverts already. Eagleash (talk) 19:14, 17 July 2016 (UTC)

There should be a case for banning Wikipedia in hospitals as it must surely worsen anyone's condition! No, not good re: Souness '92. Sorry to hear that, but, in a lame attempt to look on the bright side, Souness himself hasn't done too badly...

I'm not really sure why Diannaa hasn't lost patience with Taki yet; how much more must it take? I also read where someone said that editing while logged out is fine if the editor is not disruptive. Uhhmmm... I really think people are missing the extent of the problem. I've reverted Taki here and there, some of them large chunks of removed text – I've got no interest in trying to figure out what's worth keeping and what isn't. I agree that it's upsetting and frustrating that admins aren't getting the message, and I can only think it's because this is a fairly obscure portion of the project. If only it were a more widely-read subject. I get phases of wanting to tackle Taki, and longer phases where I don't.

Here's hoping for a finish closer to third than the bottom for your lot. Orient lost to Billericay in a friendly the other day. Start as you mean to go on, right? Bretonbanquet (talk) 20:59, 17 July 2016 (UTC)

In case you haven't already seen it: Template:Wolf-Williams Racing. DH85868993 (talk) 12:07, 18 July 2016 (UTC)

Slipped my mind! Taken to TfD here. Eagleash (talk) 12:55, 18 July 2016 (UTC)

Yes Souness seems well-enough but had another heart attack (or similar) recently I believe. Anyways wait and see time at the moment. The cardiologist only spoke to me briefly in recovery but seemed keen on a triple bypass. Great!

I've tried to draft another post at the ANI but finding it difficult. Just looking at recent diffs (and saying 'there's nothing disruptive') cannot possibly show the extent of the disruption we've had to deal with over the past year. I would have thought that the multiple removal of templates, copy-vios and abusive edit summaries in the last couple of weeks alone would indicate to the 'authorities' that something was amiss. It would be useful if there was an admin who was active at the F1 Proj. as some degree of specialised knowledge is required. If it hadn't recently gone to ANI, I would be tempted to ask Snowman for ideas... A block is probably not likely to happen... what is needed in the absence of a block is a kind of mentoring perhaps, where edits could be approved in some way. (RFPP is impractical). That probably goes against the 'anyone can edit' principle though. & I have no idea how it could be made to work anyway. Still, I suppose eventually some solution will be found. In the meantime we just keep on with it. Like you though, I'm not really up for much more of it, especially right now.

Yep, there's nothing like a good pre-season to start the ball rolling. CPFC are off in the US being a bit 'meh' too. JBW hasn't figured so I can't see why we've not released him really. Even Zeki Fryers has got a game or two! Eagleash (talk) 23:08, 19 July 2016 (UTC)

In other news there is Don Parker (racing driver) for your delectation, delight, disdain etc. Also I am now autopatrolled. The very nerve! APs all over Wiki will be sending theirs back in protest... Eagleash (talk) 00:16, 22 July 2016 (UTC)

Phew! Been a while. Hope all is well with you and medical issues are not too onerous. It doesn't sound like a barrel of laughs, I will say, but fingers crossed.

How's Taki been? I haven't seen a great deal of activity from him, but then I haven't been around much. I'm making an edit here and there and I'm gone again. I agree that an admin who knows even a little about F1 would be most helpful, but I don't know of any. There used to be one, I swear, but can I remember his name? Ugh. I will endeavour to remember. I wonder if any of the regular WPF1 crew would be interested in becoming an admin? Some aren't fit, but surely one or two are.

I see JBW has been offloaded! Someone at Peterborough must have been looking the other way when the papers were signed! I wonder if this great loss has prompted talk of Mr Benteke's arrival?! Orient have been typically lacklustre so far, with a draw at the mighty Cheltenham, plus the earliest possible exit from the EFL Cup or whatever it's called these days. Sigh.

Parker looking very good there! Might be your best yet - lots of info I had absolutely no idea about. About time you were autopatrolled! Any grumblers (for sure there are none) can be sent to me for a stern talking-to! Bretonbanquet (talk) 20:44, 10 August 2016 (UTC)

Taki has been relatively quiet as it goes...and also seems to have moved on to Indy Cars, where he's already been pulled up for copy-vio (again by 359). He also went through some of his surviving articles and changed all the caps for nationalities to lowercase. Stupid! Sometime his charmed existence just has to run out....doesn't it? He's kind of cocking-a-snook (Sp?) at everyone as he's got away with stuff multiple times that no-one else would. I believe DH was asked to consider Admin. but turned it down. Don't really know who else might be suitable. I think Taki is still trying for a Wolf-Williams page though. No chance. Winston Wolf Racing...I could go with that that :) "So, Bernie...you're a wise guy, huh? Nice little Scalextric you got here....wouldn't anything to happen to it would we"

Parker was quite a good one to write, interruptions from dopey eds., unhelpful admins, heart surgeons, not withstanding. I wonder what he could have achieved if he'd moved into F1 at some point.

The medical side of things has gone a bit quiet of late...I'm in no rush...though starting to feel less well and like you I haven't edited very much lately couple of mins here and there. There's a new project member 'Geekstreet' seems to be a Penske aficionado...could be a useful addition.

Sorry you missed out on JBW...obviously nothing is more than Orient can afford. Benteke has gone quiet but we definitely need another striker. Overloaded with wingers and only Wickham (AKA the snitch) up front. An away draw isn't too bad...it must have been tough..."You don't know man, you weren't there...Chelten-NAM" :P Eagleash (talk) 02:47, 12 August 2016 (UTC)

I was wrong, he's running-amok with Indy cars now. See the edit history at Rahal-Hogan RH-001, and the AfD disc here might interest you. Eagleash (talk) 01:04, 17 August 2016 (UTC)

You would just have loved this edit today. What on Earth was he thinking? Whilst writing that I heard we'd signed Benteke. What did I do to deserve this!!? Eagleash (talk) 21:29, 18 August 2016 (UTC)

That edit has to be one of the most crass edits I've ever seen that wasn't pure vandalism. Lord. Up to a point, and this may sound mercenary, but I hope he sticks to IndyCars. Let those fellows deal with him for a while and maybe they'll have more luck than we have so far. That RH-001 article is classic Taki. I wonder if he knows he's pissing people off and part of his fun is continuing to do so. He must surely have noticed our efforts to get rid of him have failed.

Shame, DH would've made a good admin, but he's far too sensible to put his name down for that rigmarole. You'd have to be mad to want to be an admin. Winston Wolf Racing haha, somewhere in a parallel universe, that exists. I'd rather be there.

Not surprised you're in no medical hurry - I wouldn't be either. Good luck to JBW although Posh will surely realise their mistake pretty soon. *cough* pay money for a player?! Orient?! Must be joking. Two wins in a row though, albeit the mighty Stevenage and Grimsby. Benteke... you'll love him. Could be the dawn of a new era... Haha, I always call Cheltenham 'Nam' ever since a friend of a friend (ex-army) showed me his tattered sleeping bag and said, "I had this in 'Nam." Like a mug I went all wide-eyed and he had caught his umpteenth victim. Bretonbanquet (talk) 22:10, 20 August 2016 (UTC)

We can but hope that he goes off to Indy...he's pretty much attacked as much as possible at F1. The trademark articles are growing at Indy but have mainly been rejected. I also can't help thinking that the removal of caps (as above) and the FW edit were deliberate and that he is being a pain just for the sake of it. As you say, he's probably realised that Admin. aren't going to do anything and thus feels invulnerable. ANI seems pretty pointless if they're not going to look into things anything more than cursorily; too much effort, and no brownie points, maybe? Taki has been asking for help from reviewers and at the AfC help desk, but hasn't met with much success so far. Obviously spending time in the US has rubbed off on CPFC; defeated in Totten-NAM! Medical consult in a few days...should know more then. Eagleash (talk) 23:22, 22 August 2016 (UTC)

Taki recently created two drafts about school sports TV. In one of them was mention of a school with a familiar name. A little (very little) research led me to this. Puts things in a clearer perspective maybe? Eagleash (talk) 13:59, 30 August 2016 (UTC)

Geolocating one of the IP's brought me indeed to Wiltshire. Tvx1 18:28, 31 August 2016 (UTC)

Yes, we've known all along that he edits from there, sometimes Andover (which I think is actually in Hampshire) or, more often Salisbury. I also, once I saw the name again, recalled him editing Rowdeford School last November. Eagleash (talk) 20:30, 31 August 2016 (UTC)

Well. That might explain a lot. While I'm not overly chuffed with myself at extensively berating someone (apparently) with special needs, it raises the further question of what to do about it. It might be another angle to talk about with admins - maybe there are set ways of dealing with this kind of thing? Bretonbanquet (talk) 21:59, 31 August 2016 (UTC)

I had a feeling there was more to it. Mentioned that briefly back in March. I'm glad we haven't been any harsher with him. I've asked Sam, via eMail, rather than at talk-page, if he knows of anything. I can foresee the same probs. with Admin though... unable to see the extent of the difficulties we've had and thus not helping. Eagleash (talk) 23:33, 31 August 2016 (UTC)

Sam pointed out WP:AUTIST which has some useful information but doesn't help in figuring out how to deal. He also thought guidance is the way to go but as Taki doesn't communicate that's difficult. I have also contacted a good friend in RL(ish) who brought up a son with Autism, to see if she thinks the page is a reasonable description of the condition. Eagleash (talk) 12:40, 3 September 2016 (UTC)

Just because the edits are made from a special needs school, it doesn't mean they are made by a pupil from the school. It could just as well be a teacher. I'm very skeptical that a young child would have that much interest for and knowledge of 1970's and 1980's F1 cars. Tvx1 20:33, 6 September 2016 (UTC)

I would like to think that a teacher would have a better basic knowledge of English. If a teacher is as seriously incompetent as the last year's edits suggest, Ofsted need to be informed as the poor kids would have no chance. I can quite believe that someone of say 15 or 16 having discovered motorsport would, in the circumstances we think may exist, be seriously obsessive about whatever aspect they became fixated upon. Eagleash (talk) 20:58, 6 September 2016 (UTC)

Tend to agree with Eagleash on this one - surely this editor can't be a teacher of anything. Possibly some other member of staff, but my money's on a teenager. I don't know whether Eaglesash's friend has any ideas, but my understanding of autism is that the subject can develop an astonishing level of knowledge about a favourite subject and often appear to pick up information more easily than a non-autistic person. That doesn't necessarily translate into being able to impart that information to others, or explain it or write about it clearly. Taki seems to fit that hypothesis, for me at least. I had a housemate once who had mild autism - he could paint incredibly well and incredibly quickly, from memory, but he couldn't begin to explain why or how, or even understand (or care) why nobody else could do it. Bretonbanquet (talk) 22:19, 6 September 2016 (UTC)

Well, I feel that in any case we actually would be best served to actually contact the school. If a headmaster becomes aware of the situation some efficient measures could finally be taken. Tvx1 10:45, 7 September 2016 (UTC)

Agree with BB re his status. Even a member of staff such as a groundsman or caretaker etc. would have basic literacy skills. He also edits habitually (in 'term' time) between 4.30PM & 8PM which indicates a defined routine whether at home or school (if he's a boarder). Contacting the school would be a last resort I think. If one, or more, of us did it off our own bat, I think Admin. would disapprove mightily. We then are faced again with the problem of trying to get across to Admin. just how disruptive this lad has been. Tvx knows this prob. as well as anyone after he pointed out that Admin. looking at 2 edits (one of which removed a template) at ANI in March(?) doesn't show the extent, but they said he's not disruptive. Same recently, despite multi template / MfD notice removals etc. plus two particularly abusive edit summaries and two copy-vios (both dealt with by an Admin.) during ANI they 'can't see anything grossly disruptive'. To demonstrate the problem it would mean going through every one of his several thousand edits providing diffs. explaining why they are unconstructive (Admin. have no knowledge of F1), show the resulting chaos and the amount of work involved for others. This would produce a wall of text and Admin would refuse to even read it I expect. Eagleash (talk) 12:16, 7 September 2016 (UTC)

I think after over a year of disruption we really HAVE to start thinking of last resort right now. Tvx1 13:54, 7 September 2016 (UTC)

I agree but it's never going to fly. Admin won't wear it, the first question the school will ask is 'on what authority' and then it's a short walk to some sort of Admin. action. Also the school probably think it's great that the lad is involving himself in an outside activity...remember this is a school for kids who need help...it doesn't necessarily have similar defined boundaries to a conventional establishment. In the meantime, he's become abusive again here...I've asked Diannaa to strike it out...he forgot the 'N-word' this time. He's also come to my TP asking for help with one of the US TV pages. Would show willing but have no knowledge and it's WP:NOTTVGUIDE again too. Eagleash (talk) 17:53, 7 September 2016 (UTC)

I have a gone to ANI for their disruption with TV schedules. Enough is enough. Tvx1 15:40, 9 September 2016 (UTC)

Much as I agree that he's disrupted the encyclopedia for far too long, I fear that wall, head & banging are the relevant words here. Admin. just will not take any action. They have no concept of just how disruptive he's been over the last year and personally & I'm sorry about this...I'm just not up for battling with Admin. at the moment. Like BB I've had enough of this really. Eagleash (talk) 16:18, 9 September 2016 (UTC)

Did you see this? I honestly can believe that that person was ever promoted to administrator. They don't know the meaning of the word "hassle" and they demand respect for other users and allowing them to "improve" articles (when has our editor ever improved an article?) while at the same time not giving a reporting user the basic respect of taking a close look at all the presented diffs. Tvx1 11:11, 10 September 2016 (UTC)

Sadly it's about what I expected. Admin. have absolutely no concept of how disruptive he's been and seem to have no interest in making any effort to find out. Attack the reporting editor and look good to your admin mates is the way to go it seems. ANI as it stands is not fit for purpose. During the last ANI our guy committed several serious offences, any one of which should have seen him blocked given the history. But no...'I've looked at diffs over the last 2 weeks & can't see anything disruptive'. It's almost impossible to get across to people how many problems this guy has caused. 11:39, 10 September 2016 (UTC)

That admin comment that Tvx1 linked to sums it up perfectly. Admins like that are just a waste of space, and there are far too many like that. It really doesn't matter to them that one editor, who has never done anything constructive, can create extra work for several other editors over a period of months or years. "That's fine, leave him alone." I've said it before - Taki never complains to admins or reports anyone for undoing his work. The only thing people can do is to revert him. Of course it's not fair that we should have to do that, and eventually we give up because it's boring and frustrating. I'm starting not to care when he destroys articles. Bretonbanquet (talk) 12:23, 10 September 2016 (UTC)

He's been back today removing multiple templates and there's Draft:1985 Formula One U.S Broadcasts. Eagleash (talk) 13:29, 10 September 2016 (UTC)

Already moved to mainspace and nominated for deletion. Tvx1 14:55, 10 September 2016 (UTC)

I think this user is just enjoying making a laughing stock out of us. Looking at the timestamps of the recent edits it seems Rowde uses two devices simultaneously. One logged in and one logged out. Tvx1 15:11, 10 September 2016 (UTC)

Certainly two edits at 14:44 at '1985' ...quite possible to log in within a few seconds and move the page but could also have more than one device available. Or just have two tabs open? Eagleash (talk) 15:46, 10 September 2016 (UTC)

Rowde is preparing another TV Schedule article. Tvx1 17:39, 19 September 2016 (UTC)

That article is already at nearly 90,000 bytes and there's still some years to be added. Eagleash (talk) 02:46, 24 September 2016 (UTC)

Go Your Own Way B-Class Criteria

It's been a while! How have been? After looking over the criteria for a B-class article, I have concluded that "Go Your Own Way" has a decent chance of meeting all the criteria, possibly barring "Grammar and style". Who should I ask to assess the article? Peace! Dobbyelf62 (talk) 17:39, 13 September 2016 (UTC)

Hi, how are you? I think that has a decent chance of passing B-class, though no doubt someone will point out a few things. I think generally the relevant WikiProject assesses these things, so maybe Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Music? Cheers! Bretonbanquet (talk) 21:23, 13 September 2016 (UTC)

Thin Lizzy GAR

Thin Lizzy, an article that you or your project may be interested in, has been nominated for a community good article reassessment. If you are interested in the discussion, please participate by adding your comments to the reassessment page. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, the good article status may be removed from the article. dannymusiceditor ^{Speak up!} 22:54, 16 September 2016 (UTC)

Scarab F1

Well it's been a while but Taki has been back in the last few days fiddling with tables and things for no real purpose AFAICT. He's also created the Scarab F1 page, which, like the Martini MK23, was the team's only venture into F1 and should probably be re-directed to the constructor page. It's the usual standard and some of it looks like a C&P from the constructor article too.

Trust all well? I've had to cut back markedly on edits (no bad thing) in the last 10 days or so due to some 'complications' which have delayed heart procedure. Eagleash (talk) 17:57, 7 October 2016 (UTC)

I'll check out the Scarab page, but I'm willing to bet you're absolutely right and there's no point in it. I'll redirect it if so. I noticed he'd been quiet, and was putting it down to him ruining things elsewhere instead of in my sphere of interest. He's certainly affected my willingness to work on all things F1, I must admit.

All is reasonably well - things are much calmer on the real life front, and although they're not as great as I would've liked, they're better than I could have reasonably expected. Trying now to recoup months of lost sleep! 'Complications' don't sound like an ideal scenario at all; hope they're just a glitch and you can get on with the business in hand as soon as is desirable. Must be bad enough having to go through it at all without having it delayed! All the best to you with that. Bretonbanquet (talk) 13:18, 8 October 2016 (UTC)

You're pretty much right; he's been editing Indycars and TV 'guide' pages and Moto GP. There's also Draft:ATS D-F which is the same car as ATS 100 I believe, for which a re-direct already exists. (He started a draft for ATS 100 today and then blanked it...he created the re-direct in the first place). There's also Draft:ATS 100 (engine)! Please don't say he's now going to start pages for obscure F1 engines too. Before it slips my mind again my friend read the WP:AUTIST page but wasn't too impressed! She did agree with some of the points it made though, but overall thought it was too general.

Complications will pass; a disruptive nuisance at the moment though. Eagleash (talk) 15:08, 8 October 2016 (UTC)

See you spotted the 'Roger Williamson' account changing 'fatac' to 'whatever'. I did a couple of those before I had to go out... I posted at the proj. page. Thanks. Eagleash (talk) 20:08, 10 October 2016 (UTC)

Jeez. I can't believe even he would start creating pages for engines that were fairly obscure when they were current, let alone now! Anything like that ATS engine page is a straight redirect and no questions asked. Ridiculous. It doesn't surprise me that someone who knows their stuff would consider one of our guideline or policy pages to be too general - I'm pleasantly surprised that it was even roughly along the right lines though! I don't think Wikipedia is ever going to be cut out to effectively handle this kind of issue though. As we have found! Glad the complications will pass; what did John Lennon say? "When it's over, it will be OK. If it's not OK, it's not over."

Yes, I spotted one edit, or more likely I spotted your revert - and I just wiped the others. None of them were worth keeping. Swapping "fatal accident" for "lost control" is not what we need... Bretonbanquet (talk) 21:43, 12 October 2016 (UTC)

I spotted your revert at Lola LC87 (the DNA amendment). He's done a load of those recently (mainly from various IPs...when he's not drafting more F1/TV articles). I think he's using 'Stats F1' to obtain the info. as here. Having said that I don't really think tables should be cluttered with multiple DNA's anyway. Seems a little unnecessary to me. Hope all is well? For me, one set of complications have passed, only to be replaced by another... FML! I think last time I looked, Orient were struggling? Palace about the same really. That Williamson account ended up blocked. There was also a third different account making the same edits to Luca Badoer as those 2 guys earlier in the year. Eagleash (talk) 13:26, 13 November 2016 (UTC)

Hi! I've been moderately quiet lately, but keeping an eye out here and there. I agree, we really don't need endless DNAs everywhere just because a team was absent. Back then, a team could skip far away races if they wanted as you know, and that doesn't constitute a DNA anyway. All is... OK. Haha, can't say any better than that. Shouldn't really complain. Are you new complications an improvement or a regression?! Yeah, Orient in all kinds of trouble - can't win at home, for a start. A good 3–0 away win yesterday but we'll need a lot more than that. Club's a basket case. The Williamson account may have been (at some stage) well-intentioned, but he had to go. Keeping an eye on Luca too! Always one of my favourite drivers, actually, which probably says a lot about me! Bretonbanquet (talk) 13:36, 13 November 2016 (UTC)

I've been trying not to edit all that much recently too... but I find myself with time on my hands at intervals so I inevitably end up back here again. Taki has several pages in draft space, both car (usual standard) and TV items. Still ignores advice. Complications... I would rather deal with the previous set of complications than the stress of the more recent nonsense, I think. Not too bad overall. You should have bought JBW...haha...he's not getting a game for 'Posh'. That Williamson A/C may have been GF to start with but quickly became vandalism. What is it with those Badoer edits I wonder? On an Orient associated note, did I mention I once played in the same junior team as a (then) rather chubby, red-haired full-back... name of... Roffey. #Age #Showing. Eagleash (talk) 22:40, 13 November 2016 (UTC)

Hi guys. On the subject of the DNAs, should they just be blanked reverted, on the basis that they're unsourced (and probably incorrect)? Here are the articles I've noticed they've been added to but haven't had the time/enthusiasm to check: Lotus 49, McLaren M5A, Honda RA272, Honda RA273, Honda RA301, Renault RS01, Renault RE20, Alfa Romeo 158/159 Alfetta, Fittipaldi FD‎, Chris Amon Racing, Andrea Moda S921, McLaren M7A, BRM P57, BRM P25, BRM P126, Sauber C13, BRM P61, Cooper T86, Eagle Mk1, Lotus 88, Surtees TS9, Surtees TS14, Surtees TS16, Zakspeed 841, Ferrari 312, Ferrari 312T, Ferrari 312B. DH85868993 (talk) 09:32, 14 November 2016 (UTC)

In the (very) few articles I've checked, the 'DNAs' tally with where Statsf1.com state either 'car unavailable' or 'not present'. There's also been some additions to team pages. Tvx1 pinging Tvx1 to join the disc. as he's undone some of the changes stating 'they did not enter those races'. It's not possible to say from Statsf1 whether they did or not...might need access to the original entry lists, if that were possible. The fact that Statsf1 don't have similar notes against all missed races but only some, might mean that someone, somewhere thinks entries were made. Having said that, as above I don't think tables should be cluttered with 'DNA' ...it seems slightly pointless really. There is also the question of sourcing...in tables where a source row exists, said source often doesn't contain DNA information. Overall I don't think it's an improvement. Eagleash (talk) 15:32, 14 November 2016 (UTC)

Broadly in agreement here, I just don't see the benefit in all these DNAs. I don't think many, if any are strictly correct, and as Eagleash says, StatsF1 isn't reliable enough for these purposes. I'm for removal on sight where Rowde / dodgy IP has added them.

Taki's drafts will hopefully stay as drafts, but if he insists on bringing them into mainspace, we can just take them on their dubious merits and keep or redirect. Eagleash, sorry to hear about recent stress not even being preferable to the other stuff - that was hardly a breeze if I understand it! JBW would waltz into the Orient side at the moment, but I sense almost anyone would. We have no direction whatsoever. And well. Showing of age notwithstanding, that is a serious claim to fame in the eyes of an Orient man! Bill Roffey is an Orient legend in every sense. Part of the side that nearly (so nearly!) got back to the top flight in 1974 and the side that got to the semi-finals of the cup in 1978. We even forgave him for going to Millwall. Oh, how we yearn for a side like that! Sigh. Bretonbanquet (talk) 22:17, 15 November 2016 (UTC)

In the article's I reverted the sourced prose indicated that the teams in question skipped those races altogether (i.e. they never entered) making DNA incorrect.Tvx1 21:33, 16 November 2016 (UTC)

That seems a very reasonable way of looking at it. All of those have been reverted now I think thanks to BB.

Taki has been pretty quiet of late, some edits whilst logged out to TV type pages. I'm gradually clearing up the extraneous and duplicated drafts where I think it's non-controversial to do so.

Here is a non-champ F1 driver who I think might not be on your list. Might he have an article one day?..funny you should ask...

Even at that age WRR was obviously a different level and if I recall correctly was a year younger than most of us. Eagleash (talk) 12:32, 29 November 2016 (UTC)

I wonder if his enthusiasm is waning. Probably shouldn't have said that. Where I see any of his edits that are substandard, I do take action, but I'm seeing less. Mr Brooke is definitely worthy of an article; another guy who would be much more of a household name had he managed a WC F1 event. Working on that one? ;)

I've decided that I'd have WRR in our team now, despite his advancing years. He would still outwork some of our lot as it stands at the moment... Bretonbanquet (talk) 19:11, 4 December 2016 (UTC)

Well he's still about and still a bit of a pest, just a bit more low key. Several TV drafts on the go. Tvx has just AfD'd one Taki moved to mainspace. He's copied it to a user page...he's done that before, trying to subvert the deletion discussion (in the long term). He did try to restore the McLaren M9A page in the last few days, usual thing, no discussion, overrode 'hidden advice'.

Brooke; yes working on an article...very slowly...my enthusiasm has definitely waned. I think after some recent debacles we'd also have Bill in the team now. He did play on till in his 40s IIRC... and I should, cos I expanded his page 2 or 3 years ago.

That Roger Williamson account may be back as an IP, another similar attack on the page today. Eagleash (talk) 23:27, 5 December 2016 (UTC)

Just dropping by to say 'compliments of the season'. After a quiet period, you know who has re-surfaced today here as well as editing whilst logged in. Gone berserk with Matras and as usual, convoluted edit histories! Oshwah has picked up on some of his stuff...hope he might have an eye out for more! And the pile of pointless TV pages continues to grow. Do Orient need a manager BTW, cos I might know of one..? Eagleash (talk) 23:06, 23 December 2016 (UTC)

Festive felicitations! I haven't been on for a few days as you can see, as Christmas takes over, but it's a shame to see That IP popping up. How tedious. Good to see someone has noticed; I wonder if, as Taki spreads his dubious net farther and wider, he will cause more decent editors to notice his problem editing. I don't envy whoever comes along to clean up those TV pages. Just glad it's not my forte. Orient's manager hasn't been in the post for long, and he's picked up a couple of wins, including a narrow squeak today against Crawley, so we're hoping he can pull it all together. Who did you have in mind? Happy New Year to you, if I don't get back on before then. I hope 2017 is decent enough to be kind to you throughout. Bretonbanquet (talk) 19:02, 26 December 2016 (UTC)

You are so right; tedious in the extreme. On one of the drafts, he created it as an IP, then blanked it as Rowde so now Admin. won't delete it under csd g7 as it 'wasn't blanked by the author' and claim trying to assign the IP to Rowde is 'invasion of privacy'...sigh. So it will have to scud around for 6 months before being deleted as abandoned. (Unless it gets to MfD in the meantime). He's been back today here uniquely from an IP he's used before. He had a draft for Toleman TG181 on the go but someone else has created it in the meantime here. It was terribly stubby and DH has had a bit of a go at it but now Taki has substantially expanded it (in usual fashion) but it is wholly unref'd and IMO fails notability and probably ought to be re-directed to the team page.

When it comes to TV pages I'm hoping Tvx is still keeping an eye on them as I lack the will to do much myself right now.

I can think of a couple of managers we'd be quite happy to see elsewhere really! Pardew's tenure was pretty dismal overall. Who will employ him now I wonder? And may your new year be 'fulsome' in all respects and any editing you do be happy...(it's not likely to be entirely Takiless though!) Eagleash (talk) 22:43, 27 December 2016 (UTC)

Just been trawling through those IP edits now that my extended festive break is over; really, not many of those are constructive. And yet again, an example of an admin being unhelpful. They just don't have any idea what this guy is up to. That Toleman article needs prodding or turning into a redirect. Might just be bold on that one in a sec. Yeah, I really wouldn't stretch the enthusiasm levels by chasing up on those TV pages - life's too short. If Tvx wants to keep an eye on them, great. Managers are flying around at the moment! I can see Pardew having to take a break or trying something different - either going to a foreign club or taking on some obscure national side for the money. Never really rated that guy. Allardyce is having a shaky start, I see! That Swansea result, well, you know. The new year is upon us with great haste; let's hope we and our football clubs can eventually look back on it with pleasure and fond memories! Bretonbanquet (talk) 22:59, 4 January 2017 (UTC)

I've left the Toleman TG181 article for now, partly as none of the other Toleman car articles have any sourcing either! They have better text and greater claims to notability, but they all need work and it seems (to me at the moment) a bit soon to write this one off, although we both know it won't get any better. Bretonbanquet (talk) 23:05, 4 January 2017 (UTC)

Yes not very helpful... a bit of commonsense & 'ignore all rules' would have been beneficial. I sent the offending draft to MfD per the admin. request. The Toleman article had its Taki additions removed as unsourced, so I suppose we can wait till he puts them back and then see about re-directing then maybe. It wasn't created by Taki but by an ed. I don't remember seeing before. On an associated note a well-meaning (!) editor moved Template:Formula One on BBC from draft to mainspace for no obvious reason...it's not complete and had more or less been abandoned by Taki after the parent article was re-directed. In my view the other ed. should not have been moving other people's drafts to mainspace. I left a message at their talk-page hoping they'd read between the lines and restore it to draft (where it belongs) but... no.

A foreign job seems logical for Pards...nowhere much to go in UK now. As for Swansea, the Evening Standard had a huge spread on the day of the game saying how Allardyce was already making a big difference and a win (taken for granted) against them would see us on a roll to upper mid-table by the end of Feb. So that's relegation sorted then and a big loss on all the expensive under-achievers...Benteke, Townsend, Cabaye et al. Last time I looked, I think Orient were moving, if slowly, away from the danger area. As you say, here's hoping... 21:23, 5 January 2017 (UTC)

I noticed this today. Is this a new IP range used by our notorious IP-editor? I hadn't seen an IP in the 70's range popping up before.Tvx1 20:20, 16 January 2017 (UTC)

Yes he's been editing from that range for a few days now. Same editing habits etc. Geolocates to Newbury, Berkshire; not desparately far from his previous location. Also edits later in the day and for shorter periods. Thanks Tvx for CSDing that BBC template. I was going to TfD it when I had time. Eagleash (talk) 21:02, 16 January 2017 (UTC)

Considering it is our IP-editor, doesn't this constitute sock-puppet abuse?Tvx1 05:12, 17 January 2017 (UTC)

It certainly should do...but as we know, Admin are not very understanding of the problems when it comes to our friend. (He also created a draft for that page at the same time as the mainspace item. After the draft was rejected, he just copied the content to the article-space page). Eagleash (talk) 10:33, 17 January 2017 (UTC)

Yes, but at WP:SPI the attitude is very different to the one at WP:ANI.Tvx1 16:21, 17 January 2017 (UTC)

It might be worth a try; if you're 'up for it'. It's not the first time he's done that either. Eagleash (talk) 16:27, 22 January 2017 (UTC)

Now they're just creating patent nonsense.Tvx1 02:51, 23 January 2017 (UTC)

I know...he's also blanked the page once (didn't ES so it got restored) and there's User:Rowde/2020 Formula Oval season continuing his recent habit of creating duplicates of pages, including some that have already been deleted elsewhere. There's a load of nonsense at various 'user:Rowde/xxxxx' locations which should probably all go as CSD U5 like the school sports TV pages did. Eagleash (talk) 03:05, 23 January 2017 (UTC)

They are going through a particulary disruptive editing spell today. Recreating Indycar on BT both as an article and a draft. The article was obviously speedy deleted. The draft was declined twice as well as nominated for speedy deletion, but they keep removing the notices.Tvx1 20:44, 25 January 2017 (UTC)

Yep I nom'd everything I could. Eagleash (talk)

There's Draft:Matra MS640, another not very good effort. Usual language anomalies and looks like a C&P but subsequently run through a translator of some sort. Links to disamb. pages etc. Not a lot to demonstrate notability for a car which although interesting did not compete much (if at all). Eagleash (talk) 14:17, 30 January 2017 (UTC)

More rubbish. Almost certainly a C&P crossed with babelfish or some such similar thing. Does zero to show notability, as you say, which, I suspect, would be very difficult anyway. I really don't think Wikipedia needs this stuff. This guy has completely put me off editing motor sport articles, I must admit. Bretonbanquet (talk) 21:04, 31 January 2017 (UTC)

Let's hope Tvx has his reviewing hat and blue pencil to hand. I seem to have drifted away from F1 articles too. Gnomeishly fixing ref errors most of the time. (Some of them are real swines). The editor who was helpful when Taki was pestering for redirects is now an Admin...one of the few who had some idea of the extent of the prob. Had occasion to mention IP boy when in touch over something else. Could be a useful ally maybe if Taki goes too far again. Eagleash (talk) 00:06, 3 February 2017 (UTC)

He's blanked the Indycar on BT page (now deleted by Primefac) and recreated it yet again in mainspace and as a userpage. I've notified Primefac (also now an admin) who was involved earlier. Also had another particularly abusive ES today. Admin. mentioned above struck it out and is aware of problem generally. Eagleash (talk) 00:32, 4 February 2017 (UTC)

Blocked indef. 'abusing multiple accounts'. Eagleash (talk) 20:55, 12 February 2017 (UTC)

They've gone on another disruptive spell today adding TV schedules to American Open-Wheel racing season articles. They even left a "blocked" template on my talk page. I've used the opportunity to bring those articles in line with the guidelines regarding coloring

They did, thanks for adding that last (hopefully) IP address to the list. They 'attacked' my TP yesterday too. Eagleash (talk) 21:05, 12 February 2017 (UTC)

Good God, he's actually blocked? I almost can't believe it. This makes everything easier now, to be fair. He can be reverted as a sockpuppet on any of his IPs with no comeback. Best news I've had all day. Bretonbanquet (talk) 21:15, 12 February 2017 (UTC)

And what should we do with all the content (mostly drafts) in Rowde's users page?Tvx1 21:20, 12 February 2017 (UTC)

Yes it is true, after all the time and probs. Came completely out of nowhere, can't seem to find a report etc. but kudos to Favonian who did the deed... must have become aware of something and dug a little deeper. Eagleash (talk) 21:21, 12 February 2017 (UTC)

CSD G5 possibly? Or U5... the Formula Oval declinature of U5 was unlucky...got the wrong Admin. There's User:Rowde/BBC F1 TV Schedule, User:Rowde/Formula E on ITV, User:Rowde/Formula One on Fox, User:Rowde/Formula One on SPEED, User:Rowde/ITV2 Sports Programming, User:Rowde/ITV Sports Programming, User:Rowde/List of Indycar broadcasters, User:Rowde/Motorsports ITV, User:Rowde/Theodore TR1, User:Rowde/Coyote 81 and User:Rowde/Indycar on BT. I also have a note of items in draftspace, mainly abandoned, which can be deleted as G13 in due course or G5 in the short term. Eagleash (talk) 21:31, 12 February 2017 (UTC)

As you were; G5 cannot apply to pages created before the block. MfD then or U5 for the most blatant hosting pages and hope for the best. (Two pages were deleted via U5 this week). Eagleash (talk) 23:19, 12 February 2017 (UTC)

AC/DC

I am completely new to Wikipedia and I know this is in the wrong area but have no idea where to begin. I edited one of AC/DC's pages and I think the edit was undone (removed) by yourself. I have no idea if I submitted the change properly but it indeed appeared fine as checked and I was given praise privately by friends who are AC/DC fanatics. The change was this: >> At 0:28 in "The Very Best Of AC/DC" album version, Bon Scott is barely heard prematurely starting to say "Ridin'..." in a muted voice when he realised he indeed started singing the lyrics too early. Scott then goes on to properly sing the opening word four bars later, at 0:31. << ...which is a real true fact. So how can I contribute this properly? Thank you for the understanding of a newbie innocent just trying to do the right thing here! Cheers. 84.52.73.177 (talk) 02:25, 19 October 2016 (UTC)

Hi there, I've moved this to a new section for clarity. It was indeed I who reverted you at "It's a Long Way to the Top (If You Wanna Rock 'n' Roll)". There's one main issue with what you posted, so I'll try to explain it as best I can. When we add something like that to Wikipedia, we need to be able to verify it somewhere. In other words, it needs to be checkable, and we have to provide a reference to back up what we've said. In this case, you need to link to a reliable source that discusses Bon's false start. The song itself doesn't count as a source. This looks to me like something you've heard yourself and wanted to add. That falls into the category of original research, which isn't allowed on Wikipedia. This seems a bit picky, but because this is an encyclopedia, everything needs to be supportable elsewhere.

Another point is that it's probably a little bit trivial – if Bon made a false start, it's not really that important to the song. Other people might disagree with me on that, but that's what I think. Plus, I think the version of the song you're talking about is not the original version. Is it live or a BBC session or something? In which case, it's just a mistake on Bon's part and probably not worth mentioning really. I hope this makes sense, and thanks for understanding. Cheers, Bretonbanquet (talk) 18:41, 19 October 2016 (UTC)

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Block

Thought a new section might be in order (again). Hold back the bunting and shampoo for a moment. It seems the blocking Admin. confused Rowde with another editor he'd just blocked because our boy left an odd message on his (Admin's.) TP at the 'wrong' moment. However, The Admin. has not unblocked as such, but proposes changing the reason to WP:NOTHERE and reinstating TP access. It would then be up to Rowde to appeal the block. Eagleash (talk) 21:08, 13 February 2017 (UTC)

Understood. Favonian has done the right thing there, I think. If, technically, Rowde was blocked by mistake, then it's only fair to allow him the chance to ask for an unblock. I can't really see him figuring it out, although it would be just our luck if the only coherent move Rowde ever makes would be a stunningly erudite request to be unblocked. Bretonbanquet (talk) 22:26, 13 February 2017 (UTC)

Yes wouldn't it just. I'm not counting any chickens cos whatever nonsense he comes up with we know how Admin. have acted in the past. In the meantime, I've started on the pages listed above with the Theodore TR1 at MfD here. If anyone feels like bundling some of the other pages be mightily appreciated. Eagleash (talk) 23:22, 13 February 2017 (UTC)

@Tvx1: Adding ping to Tvx so he's up to speed. Eagleash (talk) 23:24, 13 February 2017 (UTC)

Update. Created a sockpuppet to appeal the block. TP access now revoked. Sam has suggested we wait a while before bundling any more at MfD, 'just in case'. The Theodore effort is an obvious waste of space and has to go just as housekeeping. Eagleash (talk) 15:00, 14 February 2017 (UTC)

Well if you're going to fail at requesting an unblock, that's a spectacular way to do it. Agree on Theodore, and agree with Sam. I've had a fine Valentine's Day, since I am now in love with eleven blokes from East London after they won 3–2 at Plymouth in injury time! First win of 2017! Bretonbanquet (talk) 22:49, 14 February 2017 (UTC)

I just saw the Orient result on Twitter (from O'Neill The Times crime reporter of all people). Great results all round then. I'll swap your 11 blokes for 22 disinterested muppets currently residing in SE25 who could all do with a dose of League 2 reality! Oh, and a big Sham too. He was Taki to the last then. "It's what he would have wanted" Eagleash (talk) 23:06, 14 February 2017 (UTC)

Back today here. Range-blocked. Another useless draft at Draft:First F189, which I've tagged G5. Eagleash (talk) 15:00, 15 February 2017 (UTC)

It was a great night for us, but we do need a few more like that! I've spotted your 22 disinterested muppets and their recent performances – not been a great season for either of us, has it? Big Sham needs to pull his finger out or his wonderful record of never being relegated will be over. Often wondered just how good, or lucky, he was. Hahaha, yes, Taki kept it up to the very end, didn't he? This spells the end for him, mercifully. As we sing at Brisbane Road of our erstwhile striker, "Hit the road Jack, and don'tcha come back N'Nomo, N'Nomo, N'Nomo, N'Nomo"... Bretonbanquet (talk) 23:50, 15 February 2017 (UTC)

Ha ha... there was a Palace song a bit like that for Alassane N'Diaye... think Parton / Houston. Yep it seems like it will be the end for Taki. It seems a little strange without something of his appearing my watch list. I don't suppose we'll ever know what caused the change of location etc. ...quite curious about that. Judging by some of the (deleted) content about the school, he had his problems there too (maybe). I reckon there should be a bit of a clear up end of the month? I think Steve Parish should do the same or the American money will clear him out as well. At least we didn't lose this weekend... (no game)! Eagleash (talk) 21:41, 19 February 2017 (UTC)

Returned exactly as the the block ended: Range-blocked another month, which provoked abuse at the IP talk page. I just spent what seemed an interminable amount of time trying to CE one of the recent Matra pages. Can't say I'm sorry those language muddles might not be seen again. At least not from him. Eagleash (talk) 22:11, 22 February 2017 (UTC)

I think football terrace humour is remarkably astute and witty, I do love it. Orient are continuing to lose six-pointers hand over fist, yet we are still not yet tailed off. However, pain continues to be inflicted; yesterday a Stevenage fan called Orient a "little club" on Twitter. This is what it has come to! Yeah, there are a few questions remaining about Taki which I guess we will never see answered, but I can live with that if the guy never comes back. I even feel more inclined to work on F1 articles! I don't think anyone (surely not) could reach the dizzy heights of gibberish that Taki scaled... I'm glad he's stupid enough to ensure his block becomes permanent by abusing admins here and there. Finally people can see what we've been saying for months!! Bretonbanquet (talk) 19:44, 27 February 2017 (UTC)

I fully expect him to return when the current block ends...if he's been anything at all, he's been persistent. In the meantime, over the last couple of weeks four Taki drafts passed the point where they have been abandoned for 6+ months. I tagged Draft:Coyote 66 'g13' (abandoned) and a newish well-meaning editor started fiddling with it, to little effect and removed the tag... so now it will have to go via MfD. It likely fails notability and is a C&P from Lotus 38 to boot. I can't find anything about a car called Coyote 66 in any of the usual places but AOWR is not something I know very much about really. As far as I can tell it's a re-named Lotus 38. The Theodore, as above, has been deleted and I have sent one of the userspace (possibly imaginary) TV schedule pages to MfD also.

I wouldn't take that from a Stevenage fan...they'll be back in national league soon enough. 1-0 over Boro was a bit of a relief but Nam seem to have it in for Orient. Eagleash (talk) 18:23, 28 February 2017 (UTC)

Gradually Taki's efforts will be wiped out, either deliberately or in the general course of editing. It might take some time in some cases and we probably haven't even found it all, but it will happen. Eventually the only trace of him will be in the memories of those who had to deal with it. Reminds me somewhat of Orient, and how it's going to take years to wipe out the damage caused by the owner. I've never known a club to be deliberately destroyed by a spiteful owner (maybe it's happened before, I don't know) but he's managed it. Lost 5–0 at Accrington Stanley this evening, and if ever there was an indicator that you're non-league standard, that's it. A tiny squad full of children, rejects and crocks, ten managers in two and a half years, a multi-millionaire's refusal to pay bills resulting in a winding-up order and 112 years in the football league comes to an end. At best. Who'd be a football fan? Bretonbanquet (talk) 21:59, 14 March 2017 (UTC)

I'm sure you are right, he'll gradually be eradicated, although after the apocalypse there'll probably just be cockroaches and him still trying to get his block overturned. He returned today as the previous range-block expired and was immediately knocked back for 3 months. He can't grasp that he's blocked as Rowde (and GTCars) so cannot come back and edit whilst logged out. I've got shot of three of the abandoned drafts and moved the Coyote to main and turned it into a redirect. I'm just about to send some more userspace bits to MfD...if I can work up the 'enthusiasm' ...likewise, my Leslie Brooke draft is lingering rather.

Sorry to note the perilous position Orient seem to be in. I see parallels with the Goldberg/Venables shambles at CPFC, but we were not quite in danger of extinction as a result. Fingers crossed!! Eagleash (talk) 00:14, 23 March 2017 (UTC)

I laughed at that. It'll be Taki and cockroaches, all using Nokia 3310s. I'm just glad that the more he tries to overturn his block, the more blocked he'll get. I agree, I have very little enthusiasm for cleaning up his mess, but will do so as and when I find it and it annoys me sufficiently. I also had ideas to actually write things too, but they're always being pushed back. At the risk of annoying you, did you know there's another great discussion about flags at the WP? What is it about bloody flags?

Orient circling the plughole as we speak. No way back from there. Yeah, other clubs are in peril or have been in the past, but not too many were so badly run as to actually fall through the trapdoor into the Conference or go bust through sheer ineptitude or sabotage. Darlington was one, I suppose. On Saturday our new manager was sent off at halftime, and a coach stood in for the second half, ably assisted by the bloke who runs a garage down the road. A great guy and a staunch fan / club helper, but not what we need as acting assistant manager... Glad to make contact on Twitter, by the way! Bretonbanquet (talk) 22:54, 4 April 2017 (UTC)

Bit of a delay in getting back to you... RL has been a right pig the last couple of weeks. I've got rid of 8 of Taki's drafts but there's still 14 (!!) more of the damn things. In addition there's a load of stuff still in userspace as noted towards the end of the Scarab section above. I got as far as I could with the Brooke page and moved it to mainspace. It's far from brilliant though and I just ran out of steam with it really. I saw the discussion about the flags and didn't really follow some of the 'logic'. I am not involving myself :P... On the question of flags an editor has changed the flagicon at Red Bull Racing from Austria to UK claiming they raced under a UK licence in 2005–6. Could have 'inherited' Jaguar's licence I suppose but the editor cannot provide a source other than fr.Wiki and I can't find any info...where to look?

Things really do look bad for Orient. Is there any chance they may have to step down more than one tier as happened to Boston? Twitter...I stumbled on your account some time back actually but didn't make 'contact' initially... didn't feel quite right bearing in mind Wiki's attitude to privacy etc. I used to be pretty active on Twitter but it has been neglected in recent months (not just because of Takipedia) only seem to open it on matchdays or sometimes for the Monday night music quiz. Eagleash (talk) 11:12, 20 April 2017 (UTC)

Just dropping by to 'heads up' this. Eagleash (talk) 20:10, 4 May 2017 (UTC)

Sorry to hear RL has been a pain in the proverbial... mine hasn't been fun but I suspect considerably more trivial. I've been trying to forget Taki ever existed, but it's diffuclt with all those drafts floating about. I do hope there isn't an infinite supply out there. I think the Brooke page is pretty decent actually, and there's nothing to say you can't go back to it if the mood takes you. The fellow deserves an article. I seem to recall Red Bull using Jag's licence for a season but I'm damned if I can think of anywhere that might verify it. I think that kind of thing wasn't considered important (rightly so) back then. It seems only in recent years we've become bothered about nationalities of teams that basically have no national identity. Back in the 50s it was a big deal but that got lost along the way in the 70s and 80s. Now it seems to matter again, but all the teams are just so horribly corporate, do we care that much?

Orient succumbed to the inevitable of course but not before a pitch invasion against Colchester, of which I was proudly a part. We managed to delay the end of the game and our point was made. We sincerely hope that there won't be a drop of more than one tier, but you never know. Talks are ongoing to sell the club and encouraging noises are being made, but nothing concrete yet. I use Twitter for football mainly, and I don't mind being spotted and followed! At least not by good folk such as yourself. As for the A13 derby... I never thought it was much of a 'thing' really. I mean we don't like Southend, and nor do Colchester; none of us likes each other, to be fair, but I'm not sure it warrants an article? I swear some things have been invented by Wikipedians and have become existent in RL as a result. A sort of reverse of what Wikipedia is supposed to do! Bretonbanquet (talk) 22:55, 23 May 2017 (UTC)

RL really was a pig for a while, but back on an even-keel now...I hope. Some more Taki drafts have been deleted. Still half-a dozen or so laying around though. You may have noticed that several of the links towards the end of the 'Scarab' thread above have turned red...deleted after discs. at MfD. I bundled the last four user pages a few days ago and... well there's always a well-meaning editor somewhere in the mix isn't there? On a similar note I saw the A13 page got deleted... probably rightly so.. bit tenuous at best. I saw a repeated episode of The Bill recently where Orient-Millwall was depicted as a big rivalry...Millwall just hate everyone, end of. I used to go to the Old Den quite often and still follow the Lions when no-one's looking! Sham Balderdash continues the tradition of successful(ish) managers walking out on Palace...Freedman, Bruce, Bony Pubis et al. I note Orient survived in the High Court today. Standard said fans packed the courtroom. Biggest attendance of the season? Sorry!

Have you got anything available on the BRM P139? An editor has changed the name of the designer to someone I've not heard of. Editor's username seems to be the same as that of the person who runs the website cited as source. Meh. Eagleash (talk) 22:30, 12 June 2017 (UTC)

Yes, Allen does run oldracingcars.com, but in my experience it's a very reliable source. Doug Nye's History of the Grand Prix Car 1966-85 also lists Osborne as designer of the P139. DH85868993 (talk) 12:15, 13 June 2017 (UTC)

@DH85868993: Thanks DH. Should we add the Nye ref also? Eagleash (talk) 12:41, 13 June 2017 (UTC)

I think one ref's probably enough, but if you or Bretonbanquet think the additional ref would be helpful, it's Autocourse History of the Grand Prix Car 1966-85 by Doug Nye, page 172. DH85868993 (talk) 12:45, 13 June 2017 (UTC)

Bit of an update... Taki's last range-block expired 22 June and all seemed quiet until a couple of days ago when Swister left a declinature notice at Rowde's TP. A draft which had not been edited since last October had been submitted by another editor altogether. Why? ..would be a good question. Clearly abandoned and usual rubbish. It had also slipped our radar! That article had a link to a long-standing non-Taki page and when I checked that one's history yep there he was, several edits from the later IP range (located back to Andover). I tipped-off Favonian who discovered another sock account and multiple edits. Upshot...range-block till January. All his userpage nonsense is now deleted and o/s drafts are down to less than six, (hopefully).

If you are able, can you close a discussion at Talk:Scuderia Milano about the team name. Gone quiet after the original proposal. Thanks.

Off-wiki: How's things looking for Orient now? I'm pleased with the de Boer appointment. As for Loftus-Cheek...should be good for a few auto-corrects a la Oxtail Chambermaid. Oh...before I forget again...if you're interested in motorsport at the Palace still, it's August bank hols weekend this year. Cheers. Eagleash (talk) 22:50, 13 July 2017 (UTC)

Sorry for being AWOL somewhat lately, Wiki has been largely annoying me! I am so glad that Taki is receiving the required attention. That really was all it took, and it would have been so much easier if people had listened to us a long time ago. Then we wouldn't have so many of his tentacles still reaching throughout F1-related articles. On a related note, I saw AGS JH24 via the WTF1 page. Don't think it's Taki but it's a similar thing. Really don't think that car is notable. I had a look at Scuderia Milano and I'll see if I can close it. Seems like a slightly odd request in the first place.

Sorry to hear RL was being a pain, but good that it has returned to a better balance. Long may it continue. RL has been very up and down for me; surprisingly good ups and very awkward downs. I'd accept something in between! Orient looking in much better shape under the new owners, and it actually looks like a proper club again. Lots of new players and even a couple of returning ones. It would be better if a certain band of eagles would refrain from chasing our youngsters though!! Tristan Abrahams scored five in the first half of our 10–0 win over the mighty Burnham Ramblers, and now your lot want him! I don't know if we'll let him go as we're trying to keep all our young players, but we'll see. You'll probably only send him out on loan anyway! Glad the A13 derby page was deleted - never sensed any particularly heightened rivalry there. Likewise Millwall! Everybody hates them, they don't care, etc. They often used to redesign our seating arrangements but other than that, I don't think they hate us more than anyone else!

The motorsport at the Palace might be a goer. I have nothing else on that weekend at the moment, but you never know. RL tends to throw things at me lately! Bretonbanquet (talk) 14:18, 22 July 2017 (UTC)

Haha, Wiki has been annoying you...who'd have thought anything like that could happen. Yep, Taki should have gone long ago. Recently followed ANI for while and noted lesser 'offences' being blocked quickly. Thanks for the Milano closure...agreed it's a bit strange. I too saw the AGS page and was going to add a table...eventually. If the page ultimately gets deleted it's not a big deal. An IP (not Taki either) recently restored the Martini MK23 page (see above in the 'Dean' thread around 5 June 2016)...I quickly turned it back into a redirect.

I don't know of any developments re Abrahams, we seem to have retained most of our devpt. squad. I see Orient didn't make the best of starts but long way to go. I was just thinking I might go to the Sutton game only to realise that was the opener. Doh!

Palace sprint meeting is 27 & 28 August (Sunday & Monday) link here. I didn't get to it last year till too late (train issues) but there were some grumbles from people I spoke to, about the new (professional) organisers. I hope they haven't ruined the garden party atmosphere &/or restricted access further to the cars, drivers and paddock. They also closed the ticket office after lunch on the last day so no half-price late entry. My own attendance is looking a bit doubtful at the moment due to RL, but if you get there hope you enjoy it! Eagleash (talk) 10:05, 8 August 2017 (UTC)

Track Listing

Hello Bretonbanquet. Received your message on my talk page a little while ago. I respectfully disagree. I am following the guidelines contained in section 3.8 and 3.81 in Wikipedia:WikiProject Albums/Album article style guide. It is very specific in all three of the examples shown. It does specify that track listing should start over for multi-album or multi-disc recordings, but not for individual sides...there is only one side to a cd anyway. Frankzappatwin (talk) 20:09, 25 March 2017 (UTC)

My bad, I missed that sentence. Thanks for steering me in the right direction.Frankzappatwin (talk) 20:27, 25 March 2017 (UTC)

Dave Dunmore

Hi Bretonbanquet, I've just been looking at the Dave Dunmore article and noticed that you added some info back in 2010. In the infobox, you've put that he played for Worcester City and Bridlington Trinity after he left York City. I realise this was quite a long time ago, but can I just check whether this was sourced from the reference that you added in the same edit ("The Men Who Made Leyton Orient Football Club. Breedon Books. 2002. p. 182-184. {{cite book}}: Unknown parameter |authors= ignored (help)")? It's just that the Whos Who of West Ham United and Neil Brown both say that he went to Wellington Town after York. Many thanks, Nzd (talk) 17:51, 5 November 2017 (UTC)

Hi there, haha it was indeed a long time ago, and I don't remember making the edit. I don't have the book with me but I'm certain that info would have come from the same book. It may well be that it didn't say he went to Worcester immediately after leaving York; more likely it just mentioned he played later for Worcester and Bridlington. There wouldn't have been specific stats or dates. Hope this helps, cheers, Bretonbanquet (talk) 18:06, 5 November 2017 (UTC)

OK, thanks. I think I'll add Wellington Town in between for now but I'll do some digging and see if I can track down some dates. Cheers, Nzd (talk) 19:17, 5 November 2017 (UTC)

No worries. If I find anything myself, I'll let you know. Cheers, Bretonbanquet (talk) 20:01, 5 November 2017 (UTC)

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Phil Lynott

I finally got round to sticking this up for GA, having come across Graeme Thomson's book which fills in the few holes I was looking for. Only took five years.... Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 22:53, 19 December 2017 (UTC)

I think it's ready for that! It did take a while, didn't it? Haha, it'll be a useful process anyway and we can do anything that needs doing where necessary. Cheers! Bretonbanquet (talk) 21:06, 20 December 2017 (UTC)

Speaking of late, you're right today. We'll sadly never know whether Lynott intended "Do Anything You Want To" playfully or heavily; the important thing, in whatever words, is it works. A listener hears what they want, everyone who doesn't go home happy at least leaves impressed. Great songwriter, good article, regardless of time, thanks! Do you mind me asking if you ever saw him live? I was too young, and probably too far away. But I appreciated the airplay back when that was cool, and still find Spotify Thin Lizzy "oddly satisfying" this afternoon. InedibleHulk (talk) 22:08, 13 March 2021 (UTC)

@InedibleHulk: I think that's true, as sadly he wasn't around long enough to answer our arcane questions about his songs. That said, I originally used the word 'heavy' just to refer to the sheer amount of alliteration in those lines, rather than a musical or conceptual heaviness. Thanks, I did write that one a while ago! It's not quite to the standard it would be if I wrote it today, but at least it exists. Thanks for helping to improve it. Unfortunately I was also too young to see him live, although I am lucky enough to have seen and met many of the other band members at one time or another. In 2019 I watched the current version of the band play through the Black Rose album as a 40-year anniversary bit of fun. I was able to watch from the side of the stage, and it was great to see Scott Gorham play those songs again. They were indeed an oddly satisfying band; somehow they manage to show you something new on every listen, even if it's your 100th listen. I owe them a great deal. Bretonbanquet (talk) 22:22, 13 March 2021 (UTC)

Sweet. I didn't even realize you penned that part, you just seemed like a generally attentive fan, now I feel a bit like a dick. But only a bit, since these things are meant to evolve, glad you like our compromise! I hit "Shuffle" on the playlist a few hours back, and yeah, had forgotten how nuanced even the hits are. Keep on rocking in the free world! I'm off to "rediscover" what used to seem heavy about Aerosmith. InedibleHulk (talk) 22:45, 13 March 2021 (UTC)

@InedibleHulk: Haha, not at all, don't worry ;) That's right, all this stuff evolves along the way. Glad you enjoyed your dip back into Thin Lizzy. Phil would have appreciated it. Have fun with Aerosmith! Another great band. Bretonbanquet (talk) 23:18, 13 March 2021 (UTC)

Part of me knows I still fundamentally agree with you on that, but to be brutally honest, my most recent shuffle down memory lane left me with some pretty serious doubts about the whole back catalogue. Lot of filler. But no worries, I reconnected with Cheap Trick. Those boys know how to fairly consistently rock a hulk! To Aerosmith's credit, fifty years is a long time to support expensive habits; artistic credibility won't sell itself. "Stiff Competition", I currently hear, fluffy things happen. "Kings and Queens" is legit immortal glorious, but "Pink" deserves every ounce of shame it will always carry into the conversation. Better to burn up than fade away, I guess. CCR and Nirvana never had to go through their "awkward phase", either. Whenever I need someone to lay my head and heart upon from now on, I'm sticking with Phil Anselmo, Phil Ochs and Phil Lynott. Screw Phil Collins, he's changed, man! InedibleHulk (talk) 02:42, 14 March 2021 (UTC)

@InedibleHulk: Ah yes, that is undeniable. Sometimes great bands have some seriously questionable skeletons in their closets. Yeah, Aerosmith have a lot of closets and I guess skeletons have to go somewhere. With you on "Pink" and probably the whole of Nine Lives. You hit the nail on the head there, it's easy when your career is short – you never have time to get tired or jaded. Your judgement of the Phils of the music industry is so accurate it hurts. Haha.. Bretonbanquet (talk) 16:10, 14 March 2021 (UTC)

Dammit, I'd forgotten about "Jaded". That's the one that jaded me! But at least "tired and jaded" brings me back to "4 AM"; is Our Lady Peace even a thing in Britain? InedibleHulk (talk) 18:19, 14 March 2021 (UTC)

@InedibleHulk: 4AM is a time to be nothing other than tired and jaded! Thinks... no, they aren't a thing here. Not sure why! It's hard to break Britain for a lot of these bands, and they eventually decide it's not worth the effort, haha. Bretonbanquet (talk) 19:53, 14 March 2021 (UTC)

Not worth it for an American band "coming to your town to help you party down", maybe, but your potential market is huge next to ours. Tell your friends, The Tea Party, Big Wreck, Matthew Good Band, Moist and The Watchmen are dying out here, merely thriving on national radio! I take it Rush is known, at least? InedibleHulk (talk) 20:11, 14 March 2021 (UTC)

@InedibleHulk: Certainly Rush are a big deal. Very influential on young British rock bands, even now. Big Wreck and Matthew Good Band I am familiar with, but not so the others. Touring over here can be expensive for you guys, which is sad. Visas and whatnot, for those who need them. But for those who have the right connections and play the right towns, yeah, there are juicy pickings. A loootttt of competition though! Bretonbanquet (talk) 21:45, 14 March 2021 (UTC)

Plus, it now costs extra to bribe the border guards into nodding along with how we provide an "essential service". The British people need Rush, Woods of Ypres and The Tragically Hip! They just want Sum 41, The Barenaked Ladies and Limblifter. InedibleHulk (talk) 22:02, 14 March 2021 (UTC)

@InedibleHulk: Hahahaaaa... border guards never come cheap. We do need Rush, everyone does. I think The Tragically Hip have a decent following too. Ah yes.. so many times I have to apologise for the tastes of my nation, they don't listen to me. Bretonbanquet (talk) 01:19, 16 March 2021 (UTC)

At least your nation is somewhat united by the Queen's English. I have Inuit throat singing to the left of me, music of Quebec to the right. They're technically just as Canadian, but have their own chart and award subdivisions for a reason. I can't speak for those nations. But yeah, "interesting" is probably the politest way most imperial or African descendants can describe it. InedibleHulk (talk) 05:44, 16 March 2021 (UTC)

@InedibleHulk: I fancy a bit of Inuit throat singing. I think we need separate charts over here sometimes, given how accents can change and become unintelligible a mere fifty miles up the road. Bretonbanquet (talk) 21:54, 16 March 2021 (UTC)

I always found it fun to listen to The British Bulldogs cut a duet promo. Davey Boy enunciates like a (somewhat ferocious) bird, while Dynamite sounds like Eddie Vedder fell off the Keith Richards tree and hit every Ozzy on the way down. A lot of good English doom metal is like that, too, singers who can't growl tagging in growlers who can't sing. InedibleHulk (talk) 22:05, 16 March 2021 (UTC)

@InedibleHulk: Haha I was not familiar with those guys. But seeing where they're from, I am not remotely surprised. Makes me want to look into it though... Bretonbanquet (talk) 13:40, 17 March 2021 (UTC)

To be fair, I was once told by an editor from around the way that he couldn't understand Dynamite Kid, either; especially after retirement, it might be a more cranial and pharmaceutical than regional thing. InedibleHulk (talk) 19:41, 17 March 2021 (UTC)

Sotiriou

Regarding your prod rationale, cup games are only valid notability qualifiers if the club he appears for is in a fully pro league (which Oriemt aren't - no Conference player can qualify via WP:NFOOTY by virtue of their club's individual status); you're welcome to double check at WT:FOOTY if you doubt this is correct. Anyway, would you mind reinstating the prod? It will definitely be deleted at AfD but I'd rather not waste people's time. Cheers, Number 57 00:01, 8 January 2018 (UTC)

Also I guess you may have got your rationale from WP:FOOTYN - I presume you may have missed the bit at the top of the player section where it says that guideline has been superceded by the current one (many years ago AFAIR). Cheers, Number 57 00:07, 8 January 2018 (UTC)

(e/c) Yes, I see I was looking at some old notability criteria which are still visible from a link on the Wikiproject page. I accept that I carelessly didn't read the note saying those criteria had been superceded, but it's still very unhelpful that they're still there. I don't understand (because it's illogical) that notability of players playing in an FA Cup match between two professional teams can be affected by the status of some other, unconnected clubs in the league which one of those teams plays in. It's nonsensical. Sotiriou is apparently the only Orient player in the entire history of the club who is deemed unnotable. Absolutely no offence to you as I can see you're following the rules as determined by whoever determined them, but I shan't be PRODding my own article. My time has been wasted writing an article, following old notability criteria which shouldn't be visible, which will now be deleted due to a moronic non sequitur in the newer criteria. So other people's time can be wasted at AfD. Apologies if you consider your own time is wasted. Best, Bretonbanquet (talk) 00:20, 8 January 2018 (UTC)

He's not the only Orient player in the history of the club who's not deemed notable. Any player who played for them before they got into the Football League would be in the same situation. I also don't see how the rule is illogical. Players have to be playing in a fully-professional league to be deemed notable. Orient are sadly no longer in such a league. It's quite clear cut. Number 57 10:49, 8 January 2018 (UTC)

At the risk of protesting a rule (in the wrong place) which neither of us can change, I'd say it's illogical because he played in a cup match (not a qualifier) involving two professional clubs, the highlights of which were shown on national TV. I fail to see why the league he plays in the rest of the time should affect render him unnotable. The National League has no bearing whatsoever on the FA Cup. To take the hypothesis further, Orient could have reached the latter stages of the Cup, and played a Premier League side live on TV, and Sotiriou still wouldn't have been notable. Conversely, a player who plays the last twenty seconds of a league game for Barnet gets his own article. I am sure you don't fail to see the ridiculousness of that. Bretonbanquet (talk) 19:11, 8 January 2018 (UTC)

Belatedly

Only just realised I never popped by with season's greetings, recently, as I should have done. Trust all is well? RL has been unpleasant for me recently... I've spent most of today on the 'phone with four different medical professionals! Oh, Taki's latest range block expires on 11 January. Wouldn't surprise me to see him straight back here. Keep 'em peeled. Eagleash (talk) 21:34, 8 January 2018 (UTC)

Likewise I have been absent all over Christmas and New Year and forgotten my manners ;) All is relatively well, up and down, the usual! RL playing its usual tricks although I get wiser every day :) Sorry to hear it's been less playful with you; I do hope those medical professionals at least agree on some things! Ta for the heads up about Taki, I will indeed keep 'em peeled. I hope 2018 is a good year for you! Bretonbanquet (talk) 22:16, 9 January 2018 (UTC)

And there he went again. Favonian is very quick these days. Eagleash (talk) 20:56, 13 January 2018 (UTC)

Revolving door. Eagleash (talk) 21:05, 13 January 2018 (UTC)

Seems there is another sockpuppeteer in the mix.Tvx1 06:53, 19 January 2018 (UTC)

No. The second possible sock of Rowde was in fact someone stalking Favonian and was a sock of Krajoyn (or vice versa). Eagleash (talk) 07:29, 19 January 2018 (UTC)

Haha, it's not that easy to tell sometimes, is it? People like Favonian will attract bitter stalkers, sadly, that's what becomes of relentlessly blocking the bad guys. I've had another (enforced) break. Back on track. Hopefully... haha.. Bretonbanquet (talk) 14:39, 20 January 2018 (UTC)

He came back again today: "Norman Stanley Rowde, you are an habitual criminal"... see you in a year then... (range block). Any chance we can loan you Benteke... please... Eagleash (talk) 22:16, 28 January 2018 (UTC)

I hope he enjoyed his brief spell of freedom before yet again being banged up. I do not miss the days of chasing this guy around. May his spell in stir be an endless one. And oh God yes, we'll take him. We'd take Benteke's grandfather right now. We'll swap our whole squad for him and play him on his own, with better results being guaranteed thereafter. Bretonbanquet (talk) 22:24, 28 January 2018 (UTC)

Well, Bent Ezekiel has scored another goal; that'll be it for this season especially as he's going to be without well fried to direct that blurry white thing at his oversized noggin for a while. I swear he thinks those odd shaped things on the ends of his legs are just to stop his ankles fraying. "Some say..." A couple more injuries and we might need your squad (not Caprice, Scales or MacAnuff...we've paid our debt to football there).

Going back to Taki for a while. There's just one draft left, Draft:Matra MS640 which has been rejected and I tried CSD abandoned, but another editor declined saying it was 'worth sourcing'. Of course did nothing about it (I can't find any sources) and Fav says he can't delete it as it's abuse of Admin powers or something. I propose a move to mainspace and redirect to Equipe Matra Sports#Racing models but I think I'm not supposed to do that after requesting CSD. It's either that or another Rowde related MfD... Trust all as well as can be! Eagleash (talk) 23:09, 15 February 2018 (UTC)

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Lindsey Buckingham's departure

This came as a surprise! I know Buckingham has been working on a solo album for quite some time, but I don't really see that as a justification for his dismissal. Heck, the band waited for Stevie to finish her 24 Karat Gold record. It just doesn't add up...

According to Fleetwood Mac's spokesperson, it appears that the band will be touring with Campbell and Finn in the near future. Are they considered official members now? Also, does that mean that Brett Tuggle and Neale Heywood are out too? Dobbyelf62 (talk) 01:03, 10 April 2018 (UTC)

Yes, certainly a surprise. I think it's something to do with a disagreement over a tour; either Lindsey wanted the tour put back or moved forward to suit his solo agenda. Stevie kicked up a stink and that was that. I understand Lindsey is hard to work with, but these are people around 70 years old, they really should be behaving in a more mature fashion. I guess some people love drama, and they always did...

I guess Finn and Campbell are official members. No idea about Tuggle and Heywood, I suppose it depends on their loyalty to Lindsey? Time will tell, for sure, and we'll hear soon enough! Bretonbanquet (talk) 18:16, 11 April 2018 (UTC)

New Page Patrol?

Hi Bretonbanquet,

I've recently been looking for editors to invite to join New Page Patrol, and from your editing history, I think you would be a good candidate. Reviewing/patrolling a page doesn't take much time but it requires a good understanding of Wikipedia policies and guidelines; we could use some additional help from an experienced user like yourself.

Would you please consider becoming a New Page Reviewer? (After gaining the flag, patrolling is not mandatory. One can do it at their convenience). But kindly read the tutorial before making your decision. If you choose to apply, you can drop an application over at WP:PERM/NPR.

Cheers, and hope to see you around, — Insertcleverphrasehere ^{(or here)} 12:54, 16 June 2018 (UTC)

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Better late than...

Just popping by to mark the 'Saturnalia'. Seasons greetings! Not editing half as much these days. Note Orient are punching above their weight at the moment :). Palace typical; City away, yep no problem. Cardiff home, can't even beat a 'Colin' side. WTF1 TP... WTF is right. Will to live...lose.

NB; Beware the 13th of January. Things might get 'Rowdy'. Best. Eagleash (talk) 22:14, 26 December 2018 (UTC)

NB (2); or it might be the 28th, he's had so many blocks I'm losing track! Eagleash (talk)

I missed this! I had an extended wikibreak over the festive period. I'm editing a deal less as well. Yes, Orient somehow still heading the pack there... it appears the National League is one of those leagues no club wants to win! I have been following the fortunes of your lot too, and they are certainly a perplexing side. Thought they might get something at Anfield as the game wore on.. but alas...

I didn't notice anything from our rowdy friend, maybe he's still blocked? Or *cough* maybe he's given up?

I hope this finds you well :) Bretonbanquet (talk) 23:26, 24 January 2019 (UTC)

He was straight back on the 28th and off he popped again. I saw some of the edits from the IP (DH even ce'd a couple) but it didn't jump out at me. The account did though and Favonian exeunted him stage left...

Doing as well as can be expected 'mustn't grumble'. Bad news about Gordon Banks today. I saw him play for the 1966 team at Selhurst in (I think) 1982 against a select XI. He played on the wing and caught several overhit passes heading for row Z. (A certain Jackson J. played in goal for the boys of '66). (Quite rightly!). Eagleash (talk) 20:50, 12 February 2019 (UTC)

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2018–19 Southern Combination Football League

Hi there,

Are you happy for me to insert a results table for this years league?

EddersGTI (talk) 23:37, 3 March 2019 (UTC)

Sure, yeah! Fire away. I only work on the league tables, so anything else you want to do is cool with me. Cheers, Bretonbanquet (talk) 00:48, 4 March 2019 (UTC)

Is it worth doing the Division 2 results table to keep continuity? or leave it out is its step 6? EddersGTI (talk) 22:31, 4 March 2019 (UTC)

Technically it's an article about the league season, so I include Division 2 as it's part of the league, even though it's outside the top 10 levels of the pyramid. Totally up to you, but it wouldn't do any harm. Bretonbanquet (talk) 23:02, 4 March 2019 (UTC)

I'll include it EddersGTI (talk) 23:25, 4 March 2019 (UTC)

*a*i

Quick heads-up... He's back here. However, Fav says that former disruptive editors should be encouraged if they show signs of improvement. The more recent edits are of better quality than before and this seems to be a static IP. But who's to say if problematical editing may resume... keeping an eye out. Cheers. Eagleash (talk) 14:03, 18 April 2019 (UTC)

Ugh.. just when you thought it was safe to go back in the water. I'm not generally convinced by the idea of former problem children becoming constructive editors, but I guess we will see. If he stays on one IP, that would be a start. Keeping an eye out indeed! Hope all well, cheers. Bretonbanquet (talk) 00:52, 19 April 2019 (UTC)

{{English football updater}}

Hello BB. Just to let you know, the updater already includes all the newly promoted step 6 clubs, so can be added to their infoboxes and introductory sentences. If you're not familiar with it, this is how it works. All clubs have an 8-letter identifier (although less if their entire name is less than 8 letters), which is usually the first part of their name and any initials. For example, Plymouth Marjons would be PlymoutM. However, you can see them all listed in the template if you open for editing. Cheers, Number 57 22:11, 11 June 2019 (UTC)

Also, you might be interested to know we have {{fchd}}, which can be used as {{fchd|id=ST-DENNI|name=St Dennis}}. Using this results in:

• St Dennis at the Football Club History Database

Cheers, Number 57 23:07, 11 June 2019 (UTC)

Ah, thank you! I had no idea how that worked, to be honest. I will get on to that very soon. Cheers, Bretonbanquet (talk) 23:20, 11 June 2019 (UTC)

WikiVisually Danny Kirwan: changes to punctuation

Bretonbanquet: The copy of the current Wikipedia Danny Kirwan which appears on the WikiVisually site has had numerous changes made to the punctuation. Could someone please ask whoever is responsible not to make changes to the published text, and in particular not to tinker with precise and correctly applied punctuation. Thanks.194.81.226.131 (talk) 14:24, 21 June 2019 (UTC)

RE: Ekpiteta

Yeah, I had the Ekpiteta article saved in my sandbox. I ‘’think’’ I got his date of birth from Soccerway, although it was a while ago so not 100%. Apologies if it’s taken into out of the article, majority of it came from my sandbox. Cheers. JSWHU (Talk page) 14:50, 3 August 2019 (UTC)

Southern Combination League

Hope I haven't made the page too much of an effort to update. I don't mind updating it if you want to concentrate on the other leagues? EddersGTI (talk) 23:19, 3 August 2019 (UTC)

No, not at all, it looks good. You can do the updates by all means. I'll have less time this season so it suits me fine. Cheers! Bretonbanquet (talk) 00:08, 4 August 2019 (UTC)

Gary Moore

Interesting that you've just decided that the phrasing in this lead is clunky, and never changed it before when you edited the page. Rodericksilly (talk) 17:00, 28 September 2019 (UTC)

Interesting that you find that interesting. It just struck me as odd that anyone could think that "His music was in blues, heavy metal and hard rock." was a deftly worded sentence. Bretonbanquet (talk) 01:36, 29 September 2019 (UTC)

RE: Hector Kyprianou

I’m 99% sure he wouldn’t qualify for an article seeing as Brighton’s U23 team aren’t professional in the eyes of Wikipedia’s notability. Same things have happened in the deletion for Charlton’s Ashley Maynard-Brewer because his one Charlton EFL Trophy game came against Swansea U23. JSWHU (Talk page) 18:33, 10 November 2019 (UTC)

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Season's greetings

Evening and compliments of the season. I deliberately did not leave out the mince pies and sherry but Santa(ki) has passed by anyway. He's been relatively quiet up until recently but has been spotted in the distance editing soap pages. He's spending Xmas out in the snow again courtesy of Favonian.

How are things going? Orient seem to be holding up in a not too terrible lower mid-table position which pragmatically is a reasonable 'result' as they seek to re-establish; and the unexpected loss of Edinburgh can't have made things any easier. Palace continue to be a bit baffling on occasion but basically it's going pretty well... as long as we keep Wilf that is! There's a draft knocking about for a young Orient player, currently on loan at Welling I believe. Obiamo? Something like that. I knocked it back as he'd not made an appearance (somewhat suprisingly, I am now AfC participant, I.e reviewer) so it's somewhere in the ether if he returns and plays. Do you have anything on a George Heineman who played for the Clapton incarnation from 1935? I did a quick stub for him a while back but have nothing on his Orient career. I've also got a draft on the go for Mike Beckwith; tricky going – not much out there but turn up the odd notable fact. Eagleash (talk) 21:23, 19 December 2019 (UTC)

Season's greetings indeed! I sometimes wonder about Santa's Little Helper there and what he might be up to. I hadn't seen much that looked like his handiwork, but I hope those folk editing soap pages aren't too upset by his presence. I hope he enjoys his little holiday...

Things are really not too bad, thanks. Real life is very busy and that is always a bonus. Orient suffered a great deal from losing Edinburgh, perhaps more than is immediately apparent. A lot of the players were signed by him and practically worshipped him. We also had a disastrous month with Carl Fletcher in charge, during which we were just horrible, and even got nudged out of the cup by a side about 80 places below us in the pyramid. At home. But an away win yesterday will have helped and hopefully that mid-table mediocrity can be achieved and built upon. Palace are rather schizophrenic aren't they? Haha I do keep an eye on them. I am hoping for the best for you with regard to Wilf too, it would be a lot tougher without him. I am stumped on the Orient loanee to Welling. As far as I am aware we have nobody there at the moment; was it a recent loan? Heineman I will surely have something on in my Orient library haha, I'm going home for Christmas today so I shall get my books out and have a look. Beckwith... apart from his Gold Cup race and a bit of F2 after that, I know little about him. That alone, perhaps cheekily, would make him notable, but it would be nice to find something else, I agree.

I hope this finds you well, and real life is being as kind as it dares. Have a fine Christmas and a Happy New Year! Bretonbanquet (talk) 14:06, 22 December 2019 (UTC)

Thanks it would be good if the Heineman stub could be expanded a bit even if it's just appearances etc.

RL is not too bad; some health issues resolving...getting by!

I thought Fletch might do a job for you... he was always a reliable if a bit uninspiring journeyman for us (also Captain at times) but his managerial career has been a disaster really. Ricky Shaw has just quit our academy as he wants to do other things; occurs to me he'd be a great fit for Orient; is Embleton 'full-time' now? Found out yesterday another Orient / Palace stalwart is now playing enforcer for the Great Team in the Sky (George Petchey). Palace in their usual slapdash fashion posted on the website yest; with DoD 2020. As soon as I edited his page, someone popped up with a newspaper article – died last year! I remember seeing his comeback after his serious eye injury; surprise selection, FA Cup quarter final against Leeds; we lost 0-3 at home! This was the Leeds side just before Revie's great team. Bobby Collins played and so did Jimmy Greenhoff – he had a quiff!

I expect you've spotted the tables added at Roger Williamson and others. DH has posted at the TP and I have left 2 messages at the editor's TP. It's not Taki; "some say" it's his middle-eastern cousin. Belated happy new year and yes we really need to hang on to Wilf!! Eagleash (talk) 23:05, 20 January 2020 (UTC)

Talking of 'Taki', I wonder if you've seen some recent edits at Aston Martin DBR5 (both IP and 'sock' account) and the 2021 season; yep it's him. Fav. has declined to block thus far. I've completed a rather dreary article about Mike Beckwith if you're interested in taking a look... probably not. Good result for the Os yesterday; the same Stevenage that you complained about calling Orient 'a little club' ! Cheers, Eagleash (talk) 18:05, 2 February 2020 (UTC)

Naturally, I forgot about Heineman over Christmas *hangs head* but I am going home again in a couple of weeks and will dig my Orient books out. I am sure there'll be something in there, even if it's minor. It was a shame about Fletcher, but by all accounts he didn't like certain elements of how the club was run, and his ideas fell on stony ground. That, plus his dire results, was enough. Embleton is indeed full-time these days, at least until the end of the season. He has managed to bring in a couple of decent-looking signings though, so we will see. The win at Stevenage was most welcome! Serves them right for their mean comments. They'll do well to stay in the league this time round, I think. I heard about Mr Petchey, and everyone associate with the club was sad at his passing. He did excellently for us in the 70s, punching above our weight for years and developing some of our best ever players. Yes, the quiff certainly retired long before he did, haha... I see Wilf is valued at 90 million these days!

I did see the tables and didn't think they added much, if anything. I see some are still hanging on, although the fellow appears to have gone off in a huff. I wasn't aware of the Aston edits but they do seem to show the usual dearth of understanding we associate with our Taki friend. Here's hoping he loses interest again. I read the Beckwith article - most interesting, and well sourced. I didn't think it in the least bit dreary. Indeed I have just spent a good half hour reading about racing cars with DAF transmissions! Who knew?! I certainly didn't... Glorious stuff! Bretonbanquet (talk) 21:09, 6 February 2020 (UTC)

Thanks for adding all the information about Heineman(n)! I too thought I'd seen the double N somewhere but 'I think' all the actual sources I used just one one. It's funny how players you know little about (even though they played for a club one knows) turn out to have had a reasonable career elsewhere. I've got a draft on the go for Brian Snowdon who made just 5 apps for Palace in the promotion season of 68–69. Knew he'd been at Charlton but turns out, over 100 apps for them and for Portsmouth. Spent time in US and played many games for Margate before signing short-term with Palace. Glad you liked the Beckwith article.

Has Cornwall closed the border yet? Town (and shops) here pretty empty last week. I have a friend coming to visit on Monday from Hong Kong... she's determined to come...whatever. Probably have to self-isolate afterwards!

Taki got blocked eventually as a sock by a different Admin. don't know how they came across it as he'd stopped editing once I'd involved myself in a couple of his edits. Oh... remember Swister etc. who accepted Taki pages? Also blocked as a long-term sock. Eagleash (talk) 14:04, 15 March 2020 (UTC)

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Some people!

Hey, hope all is well in the current awkward situation? Personally I'm beginning to get a little weary of it all now and can't help wondering if it's all been handled correctly and more so, how the 'eck things can be restarted. Have you managed to keep working?

Just to make things worse, guess who?. The admin who blocked the last sock has gone off in high dudgeon and Favonian is not around right now, it seems. Eagleash (talk) 16:26, 5 May 2020 (UTC)

Well I am still alive, which is a start! Coping although unable to see any members of my family, or my girlfriend, which is starting to get very tedious indeed. Still working, although it is more health service-orientated these days, and still badly paid! How about you? Did your friend come over from Hong Kong? I'm not sure either how things are going to restart. Football, particularly, is going to be a dog's dinner for a long time.

Aahhh.. I saw this guy and I'll admit I didn't suspect Taki, although I didn't look carefully. He's very image-happy, isn't he? One of my friendly admins has sadly died, I discover, which settles one's perspective a little. But let's hope someone steps in soon to control this chap. Again. Bretonbanquet (talk) 20:20, 5 May 2020 (UTC)

Well he's blocked again, this time courtesy of old ally Mz7. An unblock req. was swiftly knocked back. He'll no doubt be back again – quite soon probably.

Yes the Mehmsahib rocked up from HK and just strolled through immigration at LHR, no checks, just the standard 'how long' and 'purpose' questions. Not much done whilst here as restrictions kicked in and had to self-isolate for 14 days once back in HK. For my own part I've carried on more or less as normal with longer gaps between shopping trips and staying at home most of the rest of the time. Only one day with a temperature and very very mild cough! I was out yesterday and apart from most shops being closed, everything seemed normal; certainly many more people about than 3 or 4 weeks ago. I see the Jeermuns are intending to try to complete their footy season. Presumably they'll then award themselves next years Champions' League and we might need to have another little word about trying to dominate Europe. Possibly without all the Spitfires and landing craft etc. Eagleash (talk) 07:00, 8 May 2020 (UTC)

Never give up, do they?

You may have noticed Draft:Death of Ronnie Peterson. Yep; three more socks gone bye-bye courtesy of Mz7. Eagleash (talk) 19:46, 12 May 2020 (UTC)

I hadn't noticed that one! Haha.. gone now. We don't need that type of article, as far as I'm concerned. Senna – alright, there's a lot of info there, but nobody else. I'm glad you've been able to plod on without too much viral attention – a temperature and even a little cough is a bit scary these days. Certainly more people around now and I am seeing shops with signs on the doors promising imminent reopening... not sure it's the best idea, personally. Haha.. yes the Jeermuns are indeed cracking on regardless. It will be interesting to see how all that fares. Thanks for tidying up my references on the Life article. Fascinating story, that one. I can't help but be a little disappointed that circus sideshows like that one were wiped out by Obergruppenführer Ecclestone... Bretonbanquet (talk) 17:16, 16 May 2020 (UTC)

It was a long and comprehensive article and I only came across it via AFC where it had already been rejected once as not required in addition to Peterson's main article. Rejected it, left advice; ignored; resubmitted; rejected again by another reviewer. Only when CE'ing it did the penny drop! Usual trademark grammar issues and then found to be copy-vio too. Never flipping learns does he. Another sock blocked yesterday MoaningGags.

Peterson's accident was quite important but whether it needs a separate article is debatable. The medical car that follows the start was brought in as a result and other improvements; and there were of course court cases and Hunt being... well, himself.

Yeah; I'm in two vulnerable groups as far as Covid 19 is concerned; first week I walked 6 miles round trip, gathering shopping no problems. Next week same trip but bus for at least half of it. Really difficult (chest pain from angina - not happened for nearly 4 years) and had temperature when I got home. Temp went down within a few hours but a very slight cough has persisted rather. Shops have been operating clandestinely round here - mainly those Asian-run 'tech' places. Shutters down but not locked and if you know where to look. Northern part of town is still a free-for-all petrie dish. Eagleash (talk) 04:21, 17 May 2020 (UTC)

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Romain Grosjean

He simply did not set a time lap in qualifying and for this reason he is DNQ for rules.--79.43.108.133 (talk) 17:22, 11 July 2020 (UTC)

The source will be published this evening. Car 8 - Permission given by stewards to start the race because he failed to set a time in qualifying. This is the procedure when something like it happens today to Grosjean appears on the track.--79.43.108.133 (talk) 17:34, 11 July 2020 (UTC)

DNQ means did not qualified. For that, he will be given a permission by stewards for starting the race tomorrow. If you don't set a time during qualifying that means you will not race on Sunday. The permission is vitally important, otherwise tomorrow Grosjean won't be present on the starting grid.--79.43.108.133 (talk) 17:49, 11 July 2020 (UTC)

It is correct thst the table shows DNQ. I'm waiting for the reliable source given by stewards to car 8 (Grosjean) permission for racing.--79.43.108.133 (talk) 18:41, 11 July 2020 (UTC)

It is wrong, and you do not know what you're doing. Bretonbanquet (talk) 18:45, 11 July 2020 (UTC)

The publicization of The Apartheid Era Flag on the nationality of Jody Scheckter

I would like to discuss that: displaying the flag publicly was recently made illegal and classified as hate speech (as of August 2019), though in this case, the flag is not technically illegal it is still largely and insulting unless one is writing an article about Apartheid South Africa and find it necessary to show the flag there is no other reason too, the flag represents decades of discrimination, injustice, inequality, racist segregation, and multiple Human rights violations to the black majority of South Africa.

Solution: Changing the flag to the current day flag South African.

Notice of Dispute resolution noticeboard discussion

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The Times and rock music

I was looking in The Times newspaper archive for something else, and listening to some Thin Lizzy (as one does) and thought "I wonder what they've got on Phil?" and found the following from 6 January 1986. "Phil Lynott who was lead vocalist with the rock band Thin Lizzy during its most successful years, died in hospital in Salisbury on January 4." Which begs the question - who did the singing in the unsuccessful years then? Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 18:02, 5 September 2020 (UTC)

@Ritchie333: If that were written today, it would make sense. Written at that time, I cannot possibly imagine what they were thinking. How odd! One would've expected better from The Times back then. Now, not so much... Bretonbanquet (talk) 19:37, 5 September 2020 (UTC)

Nomination of 1997–98 Kent Football League for deletion

A discussion is taking place as to whether the article 1997–98 Kent Football League is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/1997–98 Kent Football League until a consensus is reached, and anyone, including you, is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion notice from the top of the article. Spiderone 21:18, 28 September 2020 (UTC)

Thanks for pointing me in the direction of this afd notice, Bretonbanquet. Having had to take a few days out due to medical matters, I may well have missed it. The article's deletion could be the thin end of a very big wedge! Drawoh46 (talk) 21:09, 30 September 2020 (UTC)

@Drawoh46: No worries, I knew you would want to be involved, and I agree with that sentiment! Hope your medical matters are fast improving. Bretonbanquet (talk) 21:16, 30 September 2020 (UTC)

AC/DC

It's written here.AC/DC lineups. Sorry.

Regards:The Mad Hatter (talk) 20:58, 7 October 2020 (UTC)

There are only handful of most prominent members on main page. Just to justify the edit.

Regards:The Mad Hatter (talk)

I told you. It's written here.

@The Mad Hatter: And I told you before, that does not justify or verify your edit. Bretonbanquet (talk) 22:30, 9 November 2020 (UTC)

References

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Miscellany

I just thought I'd pop by and see how things are / were. I think it was seeing something about Lynott pop into my watch list. Reminded me I stood next to him at an exhibition of Bugatti items at the Royal College of Art in 1979. Not just the cars, though there was vast selection, but things by other family members; furniture and sculpture etc. I was aware of something large and dark by my side and turned to find an elbow at about eye-level; its owner towering over everyone, There could be no mistaking. A little intimidatimg but seemed friendly enough...

And talking of well-known people who are friendly when you bump into them; very sad news yesterday re 'Muddly' lucky enough to meet him briefly; just as you would expect. Further, when it comes to the not so dear and not departed enough, Taki has surfaced several times in the last few months; hasn't always been spotted immediately but tends to make socks using the name Gareth Thomas or intials GBT or some variation thereof. Mz7 is blocker-in-chief these days.

I'm sure I looked at League 2 earlier in the season and Orient were doing well but have slipped away lately I think? Palace continue to be a bit baffling tending toward rubbish; but Benteke is now an all-time hero; last-minute winner against the seaweeds away; yes we'll have that! On the other hand we haven't conceded as many goals as that at home to Lverpool since the last time!

Anyway, trust all is as well as; The Mehmsahib from Hong Kong has now parked itself in South London. As HK Chinese can claim UK citzenship and apply for a British National Order which has come into play because of the civil unrest in HK. 19:30, 14 March 2021 (UTC)

@Eagleash: Ahhh, how are you? That's a fantastic tale! Firstly, that sounds like a fine exhibition, wish I had been there. Your description of Mr Lynott seems perfect to me. Tall and dark, intimidating... or friendly. Haha... A wonderful little vignette.

I was very sad about ol' Muddly Talker. Everyone says he was a delight to meet, and I wish I had. Not sure why I never had the chance. Suffice to say he's the reason I ever took any notice of motor sport. You expect these folk to shuffle off eventually, but I still had a lump in my throat... I had spotted Taki (or suspected him) a couple of times, but only after his activities had happily been curtailed. I do wonder about the mentality of those who refuse to give up. I am glad Mz7 is on the case.

Yes, those mighty Os were knocking on the door of the play-offs but have slipped back, punctuated by a change of manager, which has done little to improve things. Young Jobi McAnuff is now in charge, I imagine you've never heard of him round your way... Through my brother I have been kept up to date with Palatial goings-on, and baffling-to-rubbish seems an accurate appraisal. I did see that last-minute effort haha.. fair play. Survival seems likely and my fingers are always crossed.

Yes, thank you, all well, and still ticking over. Ahhh... well that's a bonus. Every cloud and all that. I wish you all the very best in that regard! Bretonbanquet (talk) 20:03, 14 March 2021 (UTC)

There really is no getting rid is there? As you say; have to wonder about the mentality of someone who just persists like that. I did not spot it but another editor (NascarFan) did and started an SPI, so he's gone... again. BTW, I have raided your list of F1 drivers without articles again and plumped for Ulf Norinder; really quite hard to find much outside routine coverage considering he had a 15-20 year career; but we'll see. Talking of the late and lamented when a certain Orient legend was manager at Gillingham, I had a pal who was a Gills supporter with whom I often went to support those poor unfortunates who have turned to bookmaking as a way of life (actually we usually came out ahead!). Anyway, this prompted the one-liner 'she was only a stable-hand's daughter but Glenn rode her'. Too soon? OK. Eagleash (talk) 00:44, 23 March 2021 (UTC)

Oh forgot about "just not goodenough" bought to replace Wayne Routledge who left in a huff for a long & successful career at Spurs multiple loan clubs / Swansea. Eagleash (talk) 01:32, 24 March 2021 (UTC)

@Eagleash: I don't know how some people tick, I really don't. All human life is here... I'm just so glad other editors have woken up to it and are happy to do the work of getting rid of these accounts.

Haha, raid away! I sometimes thought of doing something with Ulf Norinder but I don't know a lot about him. I feel like he would be worthy of a page if there were enough sources? Plenty of sports car racing but nothing momentous in terms of achievements.

I'll admit I laughed out loud at that, so probably not too soon. Unless my sense of humour is darker than I thought. Supporting Orient for decades will do that to a man, as someone wiser than I once said. Speaking of Orient, how long before you want Jobi McAnuff back? So far, with only two defeats in 11 games, he's shaping up to be one of our better managers... Bretonbanquet (talk) 21:43, 16 April 2021 (UTC)

FA League reshuffle

Hello mate, With the FA wanting to go ahead with the non-league reshuffle, do you think it would be easier to create a new page with tables of both 2019–20 and 2020–21 seasons with the PPG formula they want to use? I can't see how it could be done on the current 2020–21 season pages. Just wondering what your views were on doing this or raising the subject on Wikipedia:WikiProject Football/English non-league task force EddersGTI (talk) 15:21, 16 April 2021 (UTC)

@EddersGTI: Hey, mate, I've just been reading about it and it does make it a bit difficult for us, doesn't it. My gut feeling would be to find a way to do it on the 2020–21 pages but as you say, I'm not sure how it could be done. I don't know if other editors would go for a separate page though. I'd definitely say put it to the WikiProject because obviously it affects a lot of pages at steps 3–6, and we'd need to be consistent across all of them. Whatever the consensus is, I'd be happy to go along with it. Bretonbanquet (talk) 21:34, 16 April 2021 (UTC)

@Bretonbanquet: I'll find the right words to put it on the WikiProject EddersGTI (talk) 18:45, 17 April 2021 (UTC)

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Kenneth McAlpine

Hello. I just wanted to leave a quick note on your talk page - given that two editors have now removed the content on that page, you will need to establish consensus before it can be reinserted. If you want to take it to WP:3O, I am happy to abide by whatever decision is made there. Thank you. Canadian Paul 19:19, 18 December 2021 (UTC)

It would just have been good if one of you could have provided a proper reason for removing it, even though I know there isn't one. It isn't even the most trivial piece of information on that page, and is the only thing sourced in the text except the man's birthplace. Yet inexplicably, it's worth fighting over to get rid of it, apparently. Other driver articles have similar information, as have pages on other sportsmen. You've already threatened me with disruptive editing so I see no value in taking it any further. Typical F1 article – no sourcing, yet when someone adds sourced info, a ton of bricks comes down for no reason, in this case from On High. Bretonbanquet (talk) 19:31, 18 December 2021 (UTC)

I apologize if my edit comment came off as a threat; that was not my intention and it was hasty on my behalf to not realize how that might be construed. I suppose that the broader context, from my perspective, I see this "oldest X" comment pasted everywhere in all sorts of professions and, in reviewing it, this might be a different case as your source does suggest that this fact might not be trivial. In any case, I agree with your assessment of the article and have no particular stake in it, so I'm not opposed to considerable changes (though I can understand a reluctance to do so after this). Anyways, just wanted to apologize for my edit summary. Canadian Paul 19:39, 18 December 2021 (UTC)

That's okay, my edit summary was a little snarky anyway. I would add though that an IP added the info and source originally, not me; I just backed them up when they were reverted. Bretonbanquet (talk) 19:54, 18 December 2021 (UTC)

Another? Already?

How the time flies when you're enjoying yourself (they tell me). As I spend most of my time coping with dreadful AfC submissions and a disruptive Rizespor (Sp.?) editor who makes Taki look like an expert, I wouldn't really know anymore. Anyways, season's greetings and that; I see Orient are quite nicely placed and a goodish run could have a positive outcome of sorts. Sutton though... last time I saw them, Micky Mellows was still playing for them! Also saw Sutton play a game against the England Amateur XI (1966 I think) and Mellows and Ted who's-is-face, played for the opposition. Palace still rather baffling in bursts even though mid-table; Vieira now has a lower win ratio than de Boer! Still as long as we're above the seaweeds (and chuffing Watford) and don't get relegated the Holmesdale won't mind that much. My Ulf Norinder effort has hit a wall of sorts but I will finish it one day; sourcing is really quite light considering and whether he topped 'iself is unreferenceable to date. Anyways 'happy holidays', as they say over where bring means take. Eagleash (talk) 21:32, 22 December 2021 (UTC)

@Eagleash: So they say! Sounds like you're having a whale of a time there, attracting the very best editors Wikipedia has to offer. "Real Life" has taken over my editing a little bit and there are now some gaps of a week or two where I haven't edited. But I'm still ticking, just about. Had a nasty dalliance with a well known virus earlier in the year, typically enough just before the vaccine rollout reached me. Deeply unpleasant. Other than that, yes, Orient having a fairly decent season, although we are a little draw-happy. We dealt with Sutton easily enough on the day we met them, but they have been quite impressive, surprisingly. But can they keep it up... Have you checked whether Mr Mellows is still playing for them? Haha.. I've kept an eye on Palace; yes, somewhat frustrating, I'd imagine. Flashes of brilliance and all that. I think they should be safe enough, he says, eyeing one or two sides who seem determined to leap headlong through the trapdoor. I've never seen anything concrete on exactly how Mr Norinder died, and can't find anything now either. Certainly a colourful chap, wasn't he? Not all of it good. I see the Swedish Wikipedia has a page on him, assume you've pilfered much of that? Yes, happy holidays indeed! Have a fine time, whatever you're doing. I shall be off for a bit, but back in the New Year with a bit of luck. Bretonbanquet (talk) 00:22, 24 December 2021 (UTC)

Well I got fed up with trying to expand the Norinder item properly and it is now in mainspace; please feel free to give it a quick once over if you have the time or are even remotely interested!! (As if). Trust things are well? and staying away from them viruses and 'parties' et al. I think the Os finished in a decent mid-table position - as did my lot; although finishing the job at Everton would've meant we'd have ended above the Seaweed and sent a load of Toffee down. No wonder Patrick felt like kicking people. And as we know you cannot rely on anyone in claret and blue to do the decent thing (long, pre-Allison memory required here) so Villa and Burnley let everyone down by failing to relegate Leeds. Sutton almost literally fell at the last hurdle (I think) with a bad loss at home leaving them 1 point outside the playoffs. So now the 'can we keep Gallagher will Zaha stay' nonsense can start. Wouldn't be surprised if one of Wilf, Eze or Olise went - possibly to set up a move for Gallagher. Anyways, enough for now; did you pick up on the NFOOTY debacle BTW? Eagleash (talk) 21:50, 25 May 2022 (UTC)

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Ethan Coleman

I simply merged my pre-existing draft. Your career stats table was unreferenced and your prose was, respectfully, inappropriate, using POV like "featured regularly" (says which source?). I have not said you cannot edit it; but your edits must be suitable and I did not think yours were. GiantSnowman 18:55, 1 February 2022 (UTC)

Thin Lizzy (and tags)

Hey, if you've got a minute, there are a couple of tags on this article at the moment, that I can't easily fix as I don't have the relevant sources to hand. Can you help? Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 16:30, 7 March 2022 (UTC)

@Ritchie333: Sorry, just been away for a few days. Yes, I will have a look when I get the chance; I have pretty much all my sources with me, which is unusual... Bretonbanquet (talk) 22:39, 10 March 2022 (UTC)

@Ritchie333: I've done what I can see there; let me know if I've missed anything. I couldn't find any reference to Therapy? being at the Vibe gig in 1996, so I took them out. Not sure what happened there. Cheers! Bretonbanquet (talk) 15:09, 12 March 2022 (UTC)

Nope, that looks good. The only other thing I was interested in adding, if there is a source for it, is if the group decided to expand to two guitarists in 1974 because if one left, they could keep going. Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 16:29, 12 March 2022 (UTC)

@Ritchie333: I've heard that a few times but I don't see it in any of the book sources, even the Popoff books which are very detailed. I suspect it was only a part of the reason, maybe someone's wry observation. It was certainly also Lynott's wish to move away from the blues with Bell and then Moore, towards a more straight-ahead rock vibe. I guess blues-infused music was so often associated with trios at that time, and quartets were perhaps less so. Bretonbanquet (talk) 17:35, 12 March 2022 (UTC)

Why did you make changes to Penzance AFC info?

I updated the committee and notable player info. Why did you change it? Your info is wrong! TheFizzer2009 (talk) 21:05, 28 March 2022 (UTC)

• @TheFizzer2009: That was ages ago... you did not add a WP:RS to verify the information added. Also, for clubs the size of Penzance, the page doesn't need lists of everyone who works at the club. Some of those names didn't even have roles attached to them. Plus, you put the list in completely the wrong place. Bretonbanquet (talk) 19:23, 31 March 2022 (UTC)

Texts in result columns

Hi Bretonbanquet, I saw result texts in tables of standings from most pages of past football league seasons at levels below the top leagues... why are they promotion, qualification, relegation, resignation rather than promoted, qualified, relegated, resigned? Santiago Claudio (talk) 13:41, 30 April 2022 (UTC)

@Santiago Claudio: Hi, they shouldn't be. Before the season starts and during the season, "promotion", "relegation" etc is okay because it's an indicator that whichever club finishes in position X should receive a promotion etc. After the identity of that club is decided and fixed, it's finished. Promoted, relegated etc. Technically it is not wrong to say "promotion", which is why I haven't changed the others, but it looks strange. Particularly with resignations – clubs resign; they do not have resignation placed upon them. So Club X resigned, not received a resignation. Also, it does not matter too much if all these tables are not completely uniform. It's okay to have some differences if the editors working on them choose it, providing the information is correct. Bretonbanquet (talk) 15:56, 30 April 2022 (UTC)

Subject: Albatross

Hello there, Bretonbanquet. Just to remind you that the 1973 re-release of "Albatross" by CBS Records did include "Need Your Love So Bad", but only as as a B-side. Thus, this re-release was NOT a double A-side. Moreover, there is no evidence or any source that suggests that it was a double A-side. When the 1973 re-release made the charts, only "Albatross" was listed by the Official Charts Company. I also want to let you know that I was the one who put down the information on Wikipedia about the 1973 re-release of "Albatross" being a double A-side with "Need Your Love So Bad", but I eventually copped myself on and realised that this was actually NOT the case with the record, and that is why I decided to remove that information. You have to remember that I only edit pages with good faith and my editing does not involve vandalism. Feel free to reply to me whenever you get a chance. 1996Larry (talk) 06:33, 22 July 2022 (UTC)

@1996Larry: This should have been discussed the first time you were reverted. You made the edit twice [4] [5] without leaving an edit summary, and although I did not suggest you were vandalising, that's what it looks like when you remove sourced info without leaving an edit summary. Twice, across multiple articles. Also, saying "despite what Bretonbanquet says" in edit summaries is a bit disingenuous when now you say it was you who added that info in the first place. I was restoring sourced info which had stood for quite some time. So what about the source you used in the first place to add that info? Is it wrong? You say there's no source, but you added one, or added the info without adding a source to back up your edit. You have to realise I don't know any of this stuff until you say so. Until then it looks bad. I have the single myself, but not with me. If when I check, both sides state 'A', I shall restore it. Please leave edit summaries every time you edit, particularly when removing sources, and if you are reverted by anyone, start the discussion then. Thanks, Bretonbanquet (talk) 13:57, 23 July 2022 (UTC)

Thanks very much for replying to me, Bretonbanquet. Yesterday, a user called Ojorojo edited the "Need Your Love So Bad" page putting down "Later in the UK, it was reissued as a single by Blue Horizon (designated as the A-side with "No Place to Go" as the B-side) and CBS as part of its "Hall of Fame Hits" series (designated as the B-side with "Albatross" as the A-side).", and also added the correct sources to support the information. I also want to let you know that the source I added beside my original information on the page was not the correct source to support it. Since then, whenever I do any kind of editing on any Wikipedia page, I always remember to use the correct source, and only if it's a genuine source. Anyway, Bretonbanquet, thanks again for replying to me. 1996Larry (talk) 14:05, 23 July 2022 (UTC)

Brian May

See MOS:OL. --IWI (talk) 11:05, 24 August 2022 (UTC)

@ImprovedWikiImprovment: Which part of it, exactly? Bretonbanquet (talk) 11:54, 24 August 2022 (UTC)

The link to the town he was born is enough. No need to link to the county or country (although that was not linked). I piped the link with the county because there are more than one places under that name in England. --IWI (talk) 12:38, 24 August 2022 (UTC)

@ImprovedWikiImprovment: Whether it's enough or not is not down to individual editors. Removing links will only result in other people readding them when they get confused, and is fruitless. In any case, even if "Middlesex" were not to be linked individually, then we don't link it along with the village. As the area in question is the primary topic with that name, it is not disambiguated within its title. Therefore, the correct linkage is Hampton Hill, Middlesex (if you insist on not linking the county). I would advise you that English counties are not "major geographical features" and should be linked per the guideline you quoted. Bretonbanquet (talk) 12:46, 24 August 2022 (UTC)

Incidentally, the county in English place names does not exist solely as a disambiguator. It exists to give the reader an idea of where in England a town or village is without him or her having to click through for basic information. Bretonbanquet (talk) 13:04, 24 August 2022 (UTC)

(referring to Osbourne) Issues arise because historically, places can be in more than one county at the same time, like Manchester, London, Birmingham, Bristol, etc. The boundaries have also changed drastically over time (the only constant in a given place in history is going to be the place itself and that it is in England). As cities were not historically tied to counties like cities in the US are tied to states, it is not a good idea to say we should always include them. The only reason where it would need to be included for readers is as a disambiguator. England is not a large country, and an extra subdivision is not going to do much for understanding. If someone really wanted to know where they were born, they would click on the article. You do not find counties included on American articles, even if the state is larger than the entire UK. It gives too much information and ends up making the "born" field being several lines long. As for the guideline, it is a guideline. The idea of it is to not have multiple unnecessary links that make navigation difficult, especially next to each other. Someone is likely to click on Middlesex thinking it is part of the link to Hampton Hill (it is not easy to tell by eye). The idea of an infobox is to be a succinct summary of the article's subject, hence why you don't find things like hospitals or districts of cities in this parameter. --IWI (talk) 02:07, 25 August 2022 (UTC)

Places cannot be in more than one county at the same time; I don't know what you're suggesting there. Boundaries do change, and in personal infoboxes, the county named is the one in which the city/town/village was included at the time of birth/death. It makes no sense that simply because boundaries change, we should ignore counties altogether, and there is literally not a single aspect of any guideline that says we should. England may not be a large country, but it is large enough to be subdivided into commonly known administrative areas. I disagree entirely that it does not help understanding. "Tiny village of about 500 people, England" helps nobody. Forcing the reader to click through to another article is simply providing insufficient information for no good reason. Likewise "London, England" is far too vague when a single word can narrow it down to a smaller area of less than nine million people. Counties in the US are not remotely comparable to counties in the UK; I am not sure why you would even suggest that. Having two links together does not make navigation difficult; otherwise it would be discouraged or forbidden. What is your reasoning behind your claim that someone would click on one link, thinking it's part of the other one? Putting extra information inside a wikilink is unhelpful when it is clearer to leave it outside, whether it is itself linked or not. Guidelines exist to be followed. I would also say that the template documentation calls for "administrative area" to be included in placenames – in the UK, that is the county. In large cities like London, London itself is the administrative area, so including the district is necessary for further understanding. Nobody is suggesting adding names of hospitals or making the placename "several lines long". Removing county names has no basis whatsoever in policy. Also, the country name is never repeated in an infobox, and names of large cities like London are not wikilinked. Bretonbanquet (talk) 08:05, 25 August 2022 (UTC)

Infobox person locations

You say in an edit summary that "no guideline states city only", but {{infobox person}}'s documentation does say to use city, administrative region, country for all the various location fields. No strong view on it either way, myself. Lord Belbury (talk) 15:03, 18 September 2022 (UTC)

@Lord Belbury: Right, it doesn't actually say "city only", as that editor perpetually claims. Greater London is an administrative region in its own right, therefore stating the relevant district is helpful and perfectly within the advice given in the template documentation. It seems nonsensical to say millions of Londoners are restricted to nothing more precise than "London", yet if you're born in a village of ten people, the village is named. Bretonbanquet (talk) 15:11, 18 September 2022 (UTC)

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Reverting changes to track listings

Per another user's talk page, I believe you are planning on reverting changes to track listings of R.E.M. albums. Is this still the case? ―Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 07:32, 22 October 2022 (UTC)

@Koavf: No, I never intended to do any such thing. Can I ask why you thought that, and what changes you thought I was going to make? Bretonbanquet (talk) 23:27, 22 October 2022 (UTC)

@Koavf: Having looked at the recent edits on R.E.M. albums, they look similar to edits I had a problem with on Fleetwood Mac albums. I am not particularly happy with removing bonus material on albums, but I wasn't planning to mass revert. That said, I don't see a justifiable reason for removing most of this stuff. Bretonbanquet (talk) 23:45, 22 October 2022 (UTC)

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Happy New Year, Bretonbanquet!

Happy New Year!

Bretonbanquet,
Have a prosperous, productive and enjoyable New Year, and thanks for your contributions to Wikipedia. See this for background context.
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@Moops: Thank you! Same to you!! Bretonbanquet (talk) 17:20, 3 January 2023 (UTC)

Splitting Cover Songs Discussion

Hi - you may be interested in the WT:WikiProject Songs#Cover_songs_that_should_be_split discussion - would appreciate your thoughts. -- DarylKayes (talk) 07:34, 5 January 2023 (UTC)

Infobox person

I don’t understand why you keep reverting me saying that no guideline exists, when the documentation clearly states “city” as the first thing to add to the birth place parameter. Consensus is to not use neighbourhoods of cities in infoboxes; this is well established. Someone born in the Hollywood area of LA will not have “Hollywood, Los Angeles, California, U.S.” in the infobox. We should be concise for the reader; the infobox is intended to be a summary. --IWI (talk) 14:05, 18 January 2023 (UTC)

I see the above discussion. London is a city, as well as a region. It would be redundant to say “London, Greater London, England” since the city and region are coextensive, but this technicality is not a reason to use neighbourhoods of London in the infobox. It just seems like you’re wikilawyering here; the spirit of the guideline is to be concise. --IWI (talk) 14:08, 18 January 2023 (UTC)

@ImprovedWikiImprovment: – First of all, that template advice is not a guideline, yet you insist that it is. Second, do not accuse me of wikilawyering; that is assuming bad faith. Maybe read WP:AGF to brush up on that.

In most cases, there is no "city" in a person's birthplace information. So take "city" with a pinch of salt. You say it's the first thing to add, but it does not say "Ignore everything that's not a city". It very, very clearly states: city, administrative region, country. So why do you ignore that in cases such as [6], [7], [8], [9] etc etc? Because you've unilaterally decided that detail, and that part of the documentation, is "redundant"? I don't know if you're based in the UK; it seems that you're not. I have no interest in US placenames or formatting, and using those as comparisons to UK placenames is not helpful. In the UK, counties are the administrative regions. So stop removing them, per the documentation you persistently quote for other things. Nobody is suggesting "London, Greater London, England", why do you even mention it? London is Greater London; the terms are interchangeable. London is patently an administrative region, which contains whole towns and cities within it, such as City of Westminster. Why should someone born in the City of Westminster not have that in the infobox [10]? Furthermore, to reduce one birthplace to a tiny village which is unfamiliar to 99% of readers like this [11], yet to insist that anyone born in Greater London, an area housing 9,000,000 people, is forbidden to have that clarified any further at the expense of one extra word, is utterly ridiculous and has no basis in logic. Where is the well established consensus you mention about neighbourhoods of cities? It is entirely absent from any guidelines or policies.

You talk about conciseness in the infobox, so what's this [12]? It explicitly states in the template documentation you persist in quoting, that you're not to do it. It seems you just don't fully read guidelines, or advice. Or that you want to ignore explicit advice in favour of your interpretation of "the spirit".

For the love of God, stop wikilinking "London". Or New York, come to that, or any other major city. Read MOS:OL and you know what? That is an actual guideline. So follow it? Bretonbanquet (talk) 20:44, 18 January 2023 (UTC)

Discographies

Are the rules you apply written down anywhere? Bretonbanquet (talk) 00:55, 7 May 2023 (UTC)

What rule are we talking about? YouCanDoBetter (talk) 02:03, 7 May 2023 (UTC)

The ones you use to edit discographies, such as solo material first; live albums and compilations for solo work but not for anything else; removal of explanatory notes etc. Bretonbanquet (talk) 02:33, 7 May 2023 (UTC)

Just Wikipedia precedent, all the major articles, Neil Young, Bob Dylan, etc. Solo material is the center of the article, all the band material are secondary material in the context of a solo discography. The explanatory notes I was only removing for information that is available on the page, I'm assuming the notes were originally put up when the records themselves didn't have pages, so that's just de-cluttering. But I won't push it any further, just looking for consistency across pages. Ideally the band work that has its own discography shouldn't appear on the page at all, it should just be linked, but there are cases where the artist didn't perform across the whole band discography, so the primary albums/singles are placed there to denote span. But it's not common to mention compiled/remixed/live work. YouCanDoBetter (talk) 02:42, 7 May 2023 (UTC)

One size doesn't always fit all. Every career is different, and sometimes a solo career is the least significant part of an artist's output - Kirwan being a good example. A sizeable number of his Fleetwood Mac compositions can only be found on compilation albums and live albums, which are now absent from his discography. On Green's page, there's no mention of big chunks of his work with Fleetwood Mac (which is all most people care about), yet there's still a huge list of low-budget solo compilations, which all feature basically the same songs. Don't let consistency be the enemy of clarity and valuable content. Bretonbanquet (talk) 02:59, 7 May 2023 (UTC)

I understand what you're saying, but that is why there is a Fleetwood Mac discography page, an institution that is not a part of the body of work done under his own name; same goes for Kirwan, the majority of his written compositions were written for the institution of Fleetwood Mac, but those are their recordings, not his. Anyone looking for his solo discography are looking for his recordings, not the work he did as an employee of Fleetwood Mac. I definitely believe the low-budget comps should be eliminated, the unauthorized one, but that's a discussion for another time. YouCanDoBetter (talk) 03:06, 7 May 2023 (UTC)

These two pages were not intended to be solely solo discographies, but a reference of all that artist's recorded work. The Fleetwood Mac discography page doesn't indicate which releases feature Green or Kirwan, so that page is of little use to those searching only for the work of those two artists. There seems to me to be no reason to disallow information simply because it exists elsewhere in a less helpful form. Taking Kirwan as an example, if only his solo work is to be featured, then there's no point in having a separate page - just merge it with the main article. Bretonbanquet (talk) 03:19, 7 May 2023 (UTC)

The Fleetwood material is still up on the Kirwan page. YouCanDoBetter (talk) 03:22, 7 May 2023 (UTC)

It's true though that attention should be brought to the Fleetwood Mac discography at the top, I'm taking care of that. YouCanDoBetter (talk) 03:11, 7 May 2023 (UTC)

Honestly, if you're only going to include a fraction of their work with Fleetwood Mac, then it's better to remove it all. Just selecting some of the studio albums and a bunch of singles just looks half-assed. Then redirect the Kirwan discography to his main page. I created that page to help people find all his work, not some of it. Bretonbanquet (talk) 03:26, 7 May 2023 (UTC)

I included all of the work (obviously the outtakes don't count, I trust that's not what you're referring to), but I will suggest the page be merged with the main page. YouCanDoBetter (talk) 03:30, 7 May 2023 (UTC)

No, you didn't. The 60s compilations were important releases which charted. They contain vital parts of Kirwan's work. The archival compilations are part of his discography, but I can see that one man's inclusivity is another man's clutter. Don't suggest it, just do it. I don't want to have been the initiator of what is now such a useless page; it's rather embarrassing. Bretonbanquet (talk) 03:41, 7 May 2023 (UTC)

Given the wrongheaded nastiness, and given that those releases are not vital and those childish comments were unnecessary, this conversation is over. It's embarrassing the page was ever created the way it was, no offense. YouCanDoBetter (talk) 03:45, 7 May 2023 (UTC)

Since you've bravely removed this conversation from your talk page before I could respond, I'll put it here. Just accept that you know nothing about the artist or his work, and that you think it's desirable to reduce a comprehensive discography (which nobody had an issue with in the nearly 13 years it existed) into a stunted waste of space. You think a top 20 album which contained a chart-topping single is "not vital". The sanctimonious crap on your user page couldn't be more misplaced. Bretonbanquet (talk) 04:05, 7 May 2023 (UTC)

Wrong on all counts. YouCanDoBetter (talk) 04:07, 7 May 2023 (UTC)

You certainly are, and I'm glad you accept it. Bretonbanquet (talk) 04:13, 7 May 2023 (UTC)