Talk:Yang Pao'an

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On 3 September 2024, it was proposed that this article be moved from Yang Pao-an to Yang Pao'an. The result of the discussion was moved.

Did you know nomination

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Yang Pao-an

... that Yang Pao'an (pictured) held several roles in the Kuomintang, but was executed by the party?

Source: Meng, Hong (24 May 2021). "杨匏安：对党"公忠不可忘"的先驱" [Yang Pao-an: A Pioneer Who Was "Unforgettable in His Loyalty to the Party"]. People's Daily (in Chinese). Central Committee of the Chinese Communist Party. Archived from the original on 3 September 2024. Retrieved 3 September 2024.

ALT1: ... that the Chinese communist Yang Pao'an (pictured) drew from Japanese thought? Source: Meng, Hong (24 May 2021). "杨匏安：对党"公忠不可忘"的先驱" [Yang Pao-an: A Pioneer Who Was "Unforgettable in His Loyalty to the Party"]. People's Daily (in Chinese). Central Committee of the Chinese Communist Party. Archived from the original on 3 September 2024. Retrieved 3 September 2024.
Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Ani ni Aisaresugite Komattemasu

Created by Crisco 1492 (talk). Number of QPQs required: 1. Nominator has 678 past nominations.

— Chris Woodrich (talk) 22:01, 3 September 2024 (UTC).[reply]

Please note that there is currently a move request on the talk page. — Chris Woodrich (talk) 00:23, 4 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Move request has closed. Article should be okay. — Chris Woodrich (talk) 09:44, 11 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

General: Article is new enough and long enough
New enough: Long enough:

Policy: Article is sourced, neutral, and free of copyright problems
Adequate sourcing: Neutral: Free of copyright violations, plagiarism, and close paraphrasing:

Hook eligibility:

Cited:
Interesting:

QPQ: Done.

Overall: @Crisco 1492: Hi Chris! Overall, this is a well-sourced and well-written article. It was submitted on the day it was created, so it is new enough. Earwig also shows that the article is copyvio free. However, I have some concerns about the hook. I do not find it particularly interesting, and the reason for Yang's execution is not clearly conveyed. The People's Daily source cited in this nomination mentions that Chiang Kai-shek personally called Yang before ordering his execution, which is a much clearer and more interesting detail for a hook in my opinion. But this is just a suggestion for possible amendments to the hook, and it is not compulsory. If the nominator prefers to keep the current hook, that is perfectly fine with me as well. —Prince of Erebor（The Book of Mazarbul） 14:39, 14 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Prince of Erebor. That tidbit is mentioned in several of the sources. However, given that they are all state media, and their likelihood of being non-neutral in detailing Chiang Kai-shek, I'm a bit iffy reporting it as objective fact (I think at least one mentions that he basically threw the phone in response). I can add a few lines making it clear that this comes from a state source, then we can do an ALT. Let me revisit the sources. — Chris Woodrich (talk) 15:04, 14 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

ALT2 ... that Chiang Kai-shek was reported to have ordered the execution of Yang Pao'an (pictured) after the latter threw a phone against a wall?

ALT3 ... that Yang Pao'an (pictured) refused to forsake the Chinese Communist Party, reportedly even after a personal telephone call from generalissimo Chiang Kai-shek ?

Here are two ALTs, both cited to: Meng, Hong (24 May 2021). "杨匏安：对党"公忠不可忘"的先驱" [Yang Pao'an: A Pioneer Who Was "Unforgettable in His Loyalty to the Party"]. People's Daily (in Chinese). Central Committee of the Chinese Communist Party. Archived from the original on 3 September 2024. Retrieved 3 September 2024. — Chris Woodrich (talk) 15:16, 14 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Crisco 1492: Thanks for your swift reply and update! It is true that state media should not be taken at face value, but it appears that all the other sources cited in the Later years and death section, such as China Daily and The Paper, are also state-owned, leaving us with limited options. Perhaps we could consider ALT3, as it seems to address concerns about neutrality and skepticism regarding the details of the supposed private conversation between Chiang and Yang?

I think it is ready to go now!

—Prince of Erebor（The Book of Mazarbul） 17:49, 14 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks! Sounds good to me. — Chris Woodrich (talk) 17:53, 14 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 3 September 2024

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved. (closed by non-admin page mover) Reading Beans 06:33, 11 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Yang Pao-an → Yang Pao'an – There's two English-language sources cited here, of which one does not mention Yang (Fenby 2003 is only cited to verify the massacre). The other English-language source is a book by Chiang Kai-shek in the 1960s. Chiang's book is one of two English-language sources to use this hyphenated name. Contemporary reliable English-language sources appear to largely use Yang Pao'an (sources that use Yang Pao'an: Horrocks 1994, Yin et al. 2024, Chan 1999, Zhao 2023, Cheek 1997 and Niu 2022; sources that use Yang Paoan: Chan 2009; sources that use Yang Pao-an: Jordan 1976; sources that use Yang Pao An: South China Morning Post). ~ F4U (talk • they/it) 23:55, 3 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Either way is fine for me - I went with Yang Pao-an, but I also noted the Yang Pao'an in sources. I think the older sources tend to use Yang Pao-an (Chinese Communist Who's who, Analytical History of the Chinese Communist Party, A Documentary History of Chinese Communism), in the same vein as Mao Tse-Tung (Mao Zedong here on Wikipedia), Chiang Kai-shek, and Sun Yat-sen. Yang appears to have been minor enough that he didn't receive much coverage in English, so nothing got codified early on. — Chris Woodrich (talk) 00:19, 4 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I only did a Google Scholar search so I didn't see those books, thanks for the links. I think I agree with your assessment, that Yang Pao-an is an older form of romanizing Chinese, but that the older romanization did not catch on because he never received much coverage in English. ~ F4U (talk • they/it) 14:31, 4 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support per nom and MOS:PINYIN/WP:NC-ZH. It seems that the pinyin form is the most common in modern reliable sources. And in general, we should use pinyin for subjects from China unless a different form is clearly more common. —Mx. Granger (talk · contribs) 13:38, 6 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the MOS link. I have a few China articles in the pipeline (mostly art-related) so that is very useful. — Chris Woodrich (talk) 15:38, 6 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.