Talk:World Cup Kabaddi

Requested move 26 November 2024

World Cup Kabaddi → 2019 World Cup Kabaddi (World Kabaddi competition) – The title gives the impression of an ongoing multi-year series, but the article is only about the event held in 2019. There seems to be three different organisations that organise Kabaddi "World Cup" events, so suggesting disambiguation based on the name of the organisation, which differs slightly from the name of the World Kabaddi Federation, which is a different organisation). See Kabaddi World Cup (disambiguation). —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 20:35, 26 November 2024 (UTC) — Relisting. —CX Zoom[he/him] ^{(let's talk • {C•X})} 16:03, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

• Oppose, unnecesary disambiguation. The existing hatnote to the disambiguation page takes care of any confusion. 162 etc. (talk) 21:36, 26 November 2024 (UTC)

I just noticed you performed an undiscussed move of the article a few days ago. The previous stable title was 2019 Kabaddi World Cup, which included the suggested "2019". —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 00:33, 27 November 2024 (UTC)

• Comment What about 2019 World Cup Kabaddi? More precise and concise. Rafts of Calm (talk) 23:11, 26 November 2024 (UTC)

The Kabaddi World Cup (circle style) article says that competition (which is a different competition) was also held in 2019. The Kabaddi World Cup (standard style) (another different competition) may have also held a 2019 competition. I would expect that within the context of kabaddi discussions, all three are called simply "the World Cup" and the exact location of "Kabaddi" in the name is not a distinguishing factor. Unfortunately, two of the organisation names are also rather similar. —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 23:26, 26 November 2024 (UTC)

• Comment: The title of Kabaddi World Cup (standard style) is also under discussion at WP:RMTR, and an RM for that article is also likely. —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 23:37, 26 November 2024 (UTC)

An RM discussion has now been opened at Talk:Kabaddi World Cup (standard style)#Requested move 27 November 2024. —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 00:25, 27 November 2024 (UTC)

Relisting comment: Relisting for more exposure. —CX Zoom[he/him] ^{(let's talk • {C•X})} 16:03, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

• Just wanted to add that there is a 2025 edition of this tournament taking place, according to a BBC article. GreekApple123 (talk) 00:11, 12 December 2024 (UTC)

  2025 Kabaddi World Cup (World Kabaddi) needs copyediting, as it implies that this upcoming tournament is associated with Kabaddi World Cup (standard style), which it isn't.

  I've been reading this over and over and it's quite confusing. My first instinct was that "World Cup Kabaddi"/"Kabaddi World Cup" (note the word order) would sufficiently disambiguate. However, the upcoming 2025 tournament organized by World Kabaddi and British Kabaddi League is being referred to in all sources as "2025 Kabaddi World Cup", which is the exact same word order as 2025 Kabaddi World Cup (standard style). I'm therefore striking my vote and support the proposed move of this article. I'd also recommend moving Kabaddi World Cup (standard style) to Kabaddi World Cup (IKF), as it appears that the World Kabaddi events are also standard style. 162 etc. (talk) 02:22, 12 December 2024 (UTC)

The 2019 competition that is the topic of this article was held by World Kabaddi (http://www.theworldkabaddi.org/). The 2025 competition discussed at 2025 Kabaddi World Cup (World Kabaddi) (which I just moved to 2025 Kabaddi World Cup (World Kabaddi Federation)) is being hosted by the World Kabaddi Federation (WKF, https://worldkabaddi.org/). I think those are not the same organization. And the 2025 Kabaddi World Cup (standard style) is being hosted by the International Kabaddi Federation, which is a third, different organization. —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 07:24, 12 December 2024 (UTC)

I am very confused. The website of World Kabaddi (http://www.theworldkabaddi.org/) says its committee president is Ashok Das (http://www.theworldkabaddi.org/about/committee/). The BBC article about the upcoming World Kabaddi Federation event says the president of WKF is Ashok Das and it also refers to the WKF as "World Kabaddi". But the website of the WKF (https://worldkabaddi.org/) has a list of its officials (https://worldkabaddi.org/wkf-officials/), and I do not find any mention of Ashok Das anywhere on that site. Its events calendar (https://worldkabaddi.org/event-calendar/) ends in 2020. Its announcement page (https://worldkabaddi.org/announcement/) refers to a deadline in 2017 as "upcoming". Its news page (https://worldkabaddi.org/news/wkf-news-in-brief/) describes what happened at its September 2024 meeting, but does not mention Ashok Das or the upcoming event in 2025. The logos and website styling are rather different. —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 08:26, 12 December 2024 (UTC)

@BarrelProof: Extremely long comment, split out into a separate section below. See #Governance of global Kabaddi and World Cups. —CX Zoom[he/him] ^{(let's talk • {C•X})} 18:56, 14 December 2024 (UTC)

That said, your most recent move to 2025 Kabaddi World Cup (World Kabaddi Federation) was wrong judgement, because its not a WKF event. It is a WK event. —CX Zoom[he/him] ^{(let's talk • {C•X})} 19:01, 14 December 2024 (UTC)

Per my further comment below, that article has a lot of cited sources that say it is a WKF event. —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 00:46, 15 December 2024 (UTC)

Continued with a reply there. —CX Zoom[he/him] ^{(let's talk • {C•X})} 16:52, 15 December 2024 (UTC)

• Comment: The fact that there is a separate article about the upcoming similar 2025 event seems like a further reason to support including "2019" in the title of this article, since it only talks about the event held in 2019. It is not an article about the whole series of tournaments, which has apparently consisted of four tournaments. At this point, I suggest the title of 2019 Kabaddi World Cup (World Kabaddi) or 2019 World Cup Kabaddi (World Kabaddi). —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 19:40, 16 December 2024 (UTC)

  The author of the source which mentions three prior editions of the World Kabaddi-organized World Cup may have gotten confused because the IKF World Cup has had 3 previous editions. GreekApple123 (talk) 21:37, 16 December 2024 (UTC)

• Support alternate: 2019 World Cup Kabaddi (World Kabaddi), (see below) drop "competition" from nominated title as more concise. Redirect the old title to the dab page. —CX Zoom[he/him] ^{(let's talk • {C•X})} 20:29, 16 December 2024 (UTC)

If we use that, should we move 2025 Kabaddi World Cup (World Kabaddi) to 2025 World Cup Kabaddi (World Kabaddi) to correspond with that? —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 20:34, 16 December 2024 (UTC)

All sources in that article use "Kabaddi World Cup". 162 etc. (talk) 20:51, 16 December 2024 (UTC)

"World Cup Kabaddi" appears to be the official name, and "Kabaddi World Cup" appeas to be the common name. I initially thought WCK alone would be fine, per WP:SMALLDIFFS, but then again it seems no one calls it that. So, a dab is needed. Whether to call it WCK or KWC, I don't have any particular opinion either way, but the dab should be there. —CX Zoom[he/him] ^{(let's talk • {C•X})} 11:38, 17 December 2024 (UTC)

To me it seems odd to use a different word order for the two similar events of the same organization. Sources seem generally sloppy on this subject. Sources might just be moving "Kabaddi" to the beginning so that readers understand what sport is being discussed. The in-context nickname is probably just "World Cup". —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 14:56, 17 December 2024 (UTC)

I agree, the 2019 and 2025 events should have the same word order. I'm just not sure which exact wording order to apply. —CX Zoom[he/him] ^{(let's talk • {C•X})} 17:22, 17 December 2024 (UTC)

Support 2019 Kabaddi World Cup (World Kabaddi) being the generic title for WCs. Even the organisers are calling it KWC now, instead of WCK per Greekapple123. —CX Zoom[he/him] ^{(let's talk • {C•X})} 03:30, 21 December 2024 (UTC)

There appears to be an official website for the World Kabaddi event in 2025, and it calls the event The Kabaddi World Cup 2025. GreekApple123 (talk) 20:22, 20 December 2024 (UTC)

Governance of global Kabaddi and World Cups

Split out from an extremely long comment at #Requested move 26 November 2024 above

There are at least 3 governing bodies and 2 World Cups by them, and a third by Punjab government:

• International Kabaddi Federation: https://www.kabaddiikf.com/
  • Based out of India
  • Hosts Kabaddi World Cup (standard style): Next event - 2025: https://www.kabaddiikf.com/images/calendar.pdf
  • Recognised by Olympic Council of Asia as Kabaddi governing body: https://oca.asia/sports/federations/47-international-kabaddi-federation.html
  • Recognised by TAFISA: http://tafisa.org/international-members
  • Apparently, only recognises standard style: https://www.kabaddiikf.com/rules.html [They have a Beach World Cup in the 2024-25 event calendar above, but no circle style. Probably they allow a beach variant but with standard rules.]
  • List of officials: https://www.kabaddiikf.com/election.html
• World Kabaddi Federation: https://worldkabaddi.org/
  • Established 2004 in India: https://worldkabaddi.org/about-wkf/history/
  • They claim "As per the official request of WKF, the International Olympic Committee (IOC) has assured the recognition of the Kabaddi sport upon having a minimum of 50 affiliated National Federation.": https://worldkabaddi.org/about-game/history/
  • Does not mention of any World Cup on their site. Most recent event on their website is IKL Championships 2009, and another Sports Summit also in 2009. And this is the website they still use, as they published their 25th Sept 2024 general meeting agenda there. If they had hosted a World Cup, they may have at least a few images on that site.
  • They had quite a few events in 2019 (page not updated since then), but World Cup is not one of them: https://worldkabaddi.org/event-calendar/
  • They do appear to have some relations to the UN: https://worldkabaddi.org/announcement/ (see also the above event calendar)
  • Recognises Traditional (standard?), Circle, and Beach styles: https://worldkabaddi.org/about-game/history/
  • List of officials: https://worldkabaddi.org/wkf-officials/ [There is no Ashok Das]
• World Kabaddi: https://www.theworldkabaddi.org/
  • Established 2018: https://www.theworldkabaddi.org/history/
  • Hosts World Cup Kabaddi: https://www.worldcupkabaddi.org/ (this site is linked to from their governing body website, conversely the WC site also has a link to https://www.theworldkabaddi.org/)
    • Both the governing body website & this website use the acronym WCK. But the logo says "Kabaddi World Cup"!
    • Both 2019 & 2024 are mentioned here. Interestingly, the 2019 link redirects back to Wikipedia.
  • Recognises National (standard), Circle, and Beach styles: https://www.theworldkabaddi.org/rules/
  • Recognised by TAFISA (it mentions WK's home country to be Malayasia): http://tafisa.org/international-members
  • List of officials: https://www.theworldkabaddi.org/about/committee/ [Ashok Das is the President]
• Lastly, Indian Punjab Government's Kabaddi World Cup (circle style), which they apparently brands it as "World Cup Kabaddi": facebook post (There are plenty of posts during the 2016 WC, each one uses "World Cup Kabaddi")
  • 2020's event was hosted by Pakistani Punjab Government.
  • I believe that there is only an idea of circle style kabaddi world cup, and whoever wants to host it does it as long as other teams join in. There is no ownership of the tournament by a governing body unlike the other WCs.

—CX Zoom[he/him] ^{(let's talk • {C•X})} 19:11, 14 December 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for studying all this. The one problem I have with it is that the 2025 Kabaddi World Cup (World Kabaddi Federation) article has many cited sources that say the upcoming event is a World Kabaddi Federation event and say that Ashok Das is the president of the World Kabaddi Federation. One of them is the BBC. Others are here, here, here, here, here, here. That doesn't fit very well with this interpretation. Even the ones that do not mention Ashok Das by name still say it is a World Kabaddi Federation event. —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 00:38, 15 December 2024 (UTC)

I believe that most news agencies have confused the two very distinct entities. The Ashok Das of WK satisfies every single description that the articles cite: born in India, led England Kabaddi, etc., whereas WKF do not even recognise the existence of any Ashok Das, its President for 2022-26 term is Pasang Norbu (links above). Furthermore, the official website of the 2025 Kabaddi WC links to WK website, not WKF. I just think that most sports journalist couldn't care more about deeper investigations, no one of their readers probably care. —CX Zoom[he/him] ^{(let's talk • {C•X})} 16:51, 15 December 2024 (UTC)

Also, the picture of Ashok Das with officials from West Midlands combined authority in the articles of InsideTheGames.biz [1] & SportsTravel [2] show a memento where the third from left logo is that of WK, and there is no WKF logo anywhere there either. —CX Zoom[he/him] ^{(let's talk • {C•X})} 17:10, 15 December 2024 (UTC)

I must add that the BBC article says: "The West Midlands Combined Authority, through its official investment, promotion and destination management organisation, the West Midlands Growth Company, will support the event to ensure its impact is felt across the region and the UK." So, I decided to search WMGC's website, and this is an official press release from their end: https://wmgrowth.com/about-us/media-centre/news/post/kabaddi-world-cup-2025-comes-to-wolverhampton-100-days/ This refers to WK several times, but does not refer to WKF at all. It also says "Ashok Das, President of World Kabaddi", not the federation. —CX Zoom[he/him] ^{(let's talk • {C•X})} 21:33, 15 December 2024 (UTC)

I applaud your further study of the issue. It is unfortunate that the authors of those sources weren't as diligent as you. —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 23:39, 15 December 2024 (UTC)

FWIW I reported the error to BBC on 15th December, and sometime since then they have updated the article to call Ashok Das the president of WK instead of WKF. Compare this archived version of 13 Dec with that of today's. —CX Zoom[he/him] ^{(let's talk • {C•X})} 20:12, 22 December 2024 (UTC)