Talk:Mutt Lange

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On 21 June 2024, it was proposed that this article be moved from Robert John "Mutt" Lange to Mutt Lange. The result of the discussion was moved.

Something

This page (Robert Lange) should be changed to "Robert John "Mutt" Lange". The page "Robert John "Mutt" Lange" does already exsists. So all you have to do is swap the two pages, like this:

1. copy all content from page "Robert Lange" (this page) to "Robert John "Mutt Lange", than save it 2. redirect page "Robert Lange" (this page) to "Robert John "Mutt Lange", like this: #REDIRECT Robert John "Mutt" Lange.

That is all.

Sjoerd

If we're going to include Shania Twain's Greatest hits, shouldn't AC/DC's Who Made Who be on there too? It has the requisite 3 Mutt produced tracks.

The distinction is that Shania's greatest hits includes three new tracks, so it represents work by Mutt that wouldn't get acknowledged otherwise -- not the case with other compilations that use tracks he produced on already-acknowledged albums (AC/DC, or Britney for that matter). Gusworld 03:23, 17 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Interviews

It says Mutt hasn't done interviews in decades. Maybe ant decades! The last one I know of was in 1989 when he was trying to support original Def Leppard guitarist Steve Clark when he was going through a eventually fatal drug addiction. Mutt hasn't done an interview since that. He can't be bothered. Whenever Shania does the red carpet, she goes alone and Mutt stays home with little Eja or is working.Sposato (talk) 22:32, 18 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

--

Also where it says

"There are very few pictures of Lange available today, largely because he purchases any picture taken of him in order to keep them out of the press[citation needed]. "

As a photographer I know this is not entirly true, there are lots out there of him at concerts etc, or with his wife at her shows (also watch Def Leppard Behind the Music to see the band laughing at the idea of him not being seen in public or the press saying he never went to her concerts, yet the same press showing a photo of him at one of her shows with a ticket round his neck).

But there are none as far as I am aware since the 80's where he has actully posed for his picture to be taken in a photo session. Maybe it should be changed to something like there are few photo of him in public taken since the 80's and no photo sessions etc?

Also, where it says "largely because he purchases any picture taken of him in order to keep them out of the press", yeah right, give me a break, if that is the case why can you got hold of pics quite easilly, just phone up any decent image bank....

Songs written and co-written

Hasn't he written or co-written many more songs than are included here, for instance most of Shania Twain's hits? 152.160.39.70 (talk) 15:15, 4 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I Don't like Mondays

This wasn't produced by Mutt Lange, it was produced by Phil Wainman —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.104.33.44 (talk) 19:59, 15 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Correct. I have rectified this article, as well as "I Don't Like Mondays" and The Fine Art of Surfacing. – IbLeo (talk) 21:01, 6 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 1

The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the proposal was Boldly moved by myself. Non-admin closure. Ten Pound Hammer and his otters • ^{(Broken clamshells • Otter chirps • HELP)} 18:54, 8 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Robert Lange → Robert John "Mutt" Lange ~~or Mutt Lange~~ — I'm not sure whether this should be moved to just Mutt Lange or Robert John "Mutt" Lange, but either seems more common than just "Robert Lange". Consider the following:

All of Shania Twain's albums say "Produced by Shania Twain and Robert John 'Mutt' Lange" in the liner notes.
His Allmusic bio is listed under "Robert John 'Mutt' Lange".
This article also refers to him as "Robert John 'Mutt' Lange".

There are plenty of hits for both "Mutt Lange" and "Robert John 'Mutt' Lange", much more than just "Robert Lange". However, given that he's referred to almost equally by both names, I'm not sure which move would be more appropriate. I'm tempted to say that the page should be Robert John "Mutt" Lange, since that's how he seems to be most commonly credited on albums — which would then make this a case similar to Hargus "Pig" Robbins, who actually recorded with his nickname in quotes. — Ten Pound Hammer and his otters • ^{(Broken clamshells • Otter chirps • HELP)} 20:22, 2 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Survey

Feel free to state your position on the renaming proposal by beginning a new line in this section with *'''Support''' or *'''Oppose''', then sign your comment with ~~~~. Since polling is not a substitute for discussion, please explain your reasons, taking into account Wikipedia's naming conventions.

Discussion

Support move. A search of Google books is showing more references to "Mutt Lange" than "Robert John Mutt Lange", but Robert John "Mutt" Lange is used in more formal sources, so that may be the more encyclopaedic title. dissolve ^talk 06:29, 3 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Support per TenPoundHammer. --Caldorwards4 (talk) 19:42, 4 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Which name do you support moving it to? I'm leaning toward Robert John "Mutt" Lange myself. Ten Pound Hammer and his otters • ^{(Broken clamshells • Otter chirps • HELP)} 19:44, 4 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Note to closing admin: I would recommend Robert John "Mutt" Lange, which seems to sorta be the consensus here. Ten Pound Hammer and his otters • ^{(Broken clamshells • Otter chirps • HELP)} 17:22, 5 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Or closing non-admin. I WP:BOLDly moved it myself since there was support. Ten Pound Hammer and his otters • ^{(Broken clamshells • Otter chirps • HELP)} 18:42, 6 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for notifying me that the article has been moved in the other direction. As I don't know anything about this guy, I will bow down to the assertion that the new name is more common. Either way, both article and category have consistent names now, so that's good enough for me! Deamon138 (talk) 06:57, 7 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Moved back?

I see this article was moved back to Robert Lange. Well, I also support the article name change to Robert John "Mutt" Lange. --Wolfer68 (talk) 05:57, 30 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

"Mutt" Lange would be my choice - there must be loads of fans of his records who have no idea what his real name is.--MartinUK (talk) 11:48, 23 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The real name is Robert John Lange and this username Mutt. Normally, in the wikipedia, this is Robert Lange, example : Casper Van Dien, Jeordie White ... — Neustradamus (✉) 14:22, 4 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 2

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was no consensus. Deacon of Pndapetzim (Talk) 06:50, 19 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Robert John "Mutt" Lange → Robert Lange — Per WP:NAME#Article title format; article titles should not contain quotes. --THE AMERICAN METROSEXUAL 00:46, 9 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Agreed, except that various google book searches I tried indicate that his name is commonly set out with his middle name. See, e.g., [1] vs. [2] (note that three of the books for the latter are the same book, so the disparity is actually stronger than it might first appear); [3] vs. [4]; and [5] vs. [6]. So I suggest Robert John Lange as the better move target.--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 01:14, 17 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Opposed Like TenPoundHammer said in the other move:

All of Shania Twain's albums say "Produced by Shania Twain and Robert John 'Mutt' Lange" in the liner notes.

His Allmusic bio is listed under "Robert John 'Mutt' Lange".

[7] Plenty of hits on Google News that use Robert John "Mutt" Lange dating back to the early 1980s --Caldorwards4 (talk) 01:50, 17 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Requested move (2013)

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: No move. No other options have been identified as better meeting the naming criteria. Cúchullain ^t/c 21:24, 26 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Robert John "Mutt" Lange → ? – The title should not contain quote. The title must be either Mutt Lange, Robert Lange, or Robert John Lange. --Relisted. -- tariqabjotu 10:09, 18 August 2013 (UTC) George Ho (talk) 03:45, 9 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose. When credited, he is most commonly referred to as "Robert John 'Mutt' Lange" on album liner notes and in Billboard. Also, see above for additional sources that use Robert John "Mutt" Lange. — AjaxSmack 00:54, 10 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose. Although the rationale above does not cite any policy or guideline, the relevant one is cited in the previous RM. WP:NAME#Article title format (part of Wikipedia:Article titles, an official Wikipedia policy) reads in part Do not enclose titles in quotes Article titles that are quotes (or song titles, etc.) are not enclosed in quotation marks (e.g. To be, or not to be is the article title, while "To be, or not to be" is a redirect to that article). An exception is made when the quotation marks are part of a name or title (as in the movie "Crocodile" Dundee or the album "Heroes") (my emphasis added). So policy explicitly allows quotes in cases such as "Crocodile" Dundee, and I would say this is one of those. Perhaps this example should be added to the policy, to make it quite clear? Andrewa (talk) 21:03, 18 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Discussion

I think the current policy is quite clear, see vote above, but obviously not everyone does. The rationale for this one is basically The title should not contain quote (SIC), reflecting an earlier RM that similarly stated article titles should not contain quotes.

That earlier rather sweeping statement was contained in an edit which is disappointing for many other reasons [8]. Note that the edit is to raise an RM, but it's flagged as a minor edit and the edit summary is comment. The user concerned left Wikipedia, rather disillusioned, less than two months later. The policy they cite was at the time in a state of flux amid much controversy [9] but no version of it supports their rationale. Despite all of this the first response was Agreed [10], by a now very experienced administrator, I haven't checked to see whether they were relatively new then, possibly they were.

The fact that this is still being re-proposed suggests that the policy still is not sufficiently clear. Andrewa (talk) 17:27, 19 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

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IPA needed

Is it "Landj", "Langg" or "Lang-gee"? Mac Dreamstate (talk) 17:46, 10 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

There is no one pronunciation in use. German dialects differ. He might use an English spelling pronunciation.

Requested move 21 June 2024

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved. Per consensus, common name. – robertsky (talk) 07:30, 28 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Robert John "Mutt" Lange → Mutt Lange – Previously discussed, most recently in 2013. Current title violates WP:NICKNAME. Known as "Mutt Lange" in reliable sources. 162 etc. (talk) 02:33, 21 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose, Not a WP:NICKNAME violation. The example to avoid is William "Bill" Clinton. This is fair as it is a hypocorism, and he is never written as William "Bill Clinton. Clearly this is not the same as an actual nickname or stagename, which rms have all agreed is acceptable, like Evelyn "Champagne" King, Clarence "Frogman" Henry, Lee "Scratch" Perry, Ed "Too Tall" Jones. PErhaps the most recent one I saw in my search is Talk:Matt "Guitar" Murphy#Requested move 20 August 2018. Anyway, if you want to argue that Mutt Lange is what he is commonly known as, but the previous RMs indicate he is always credited as Robert "Mutt" Lange or something like that. --Quiz shows 12:19, 21 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
WP:NICKNAME asks us to "avoid (pseudonyms containing quotation marks) unless it is found in the name in the overwhelming majority of independent reliable sources." While some sources use Robert "Mutt" Lange, I'd argue that it's not an overwhelming majority, and it's best to conform to the usual naming convention here. 162 etc. (talk) 14:24, 21 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support per COMMONNAME, references list him as just "Mutt Lange".--Ortizesp (talk) 12:47, 21 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support per nom and WP:COMMONNAME. -- Necrothesp (talk) 13:48, 25 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support per WP:COMMONNAME. Mac Dreamstate (talk) 19:39, 26 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.