Talk:List of underwater science fiction works

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Be aware List of maritime science fiction works was deleted

by consensus just last month, along with Maritime science fiction and the category. Consensus was maritime science fiction is a setting, not a genre, and there is no academic coverage of it as such. - Gothicfilm (talk) 02:58, 19 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Wayyyy too much is deleted on Wikipedia, and consensus only means those who know about it and care enough to comment. A very small minority of editors. This seems like a very good list, interested me, and I'm sorry to see the deletionist editors grabbed it. Randy Kryn 21:19, 19 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

You are absolutely correct in your observations Randy Kryn. This "Gothicfilm" needs to be familiar with Wikipedia policy; especially onw like WP:RS. We have at least one academic source from a maritime biologist and all we need is more.--Taeyebar 22:40, 27 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Consensus determined that one biologist is not a reliable source for genres, and that maritime science fiction is a setting, not a genre, and notwithstanding that one biologist, there is no academic coverage of it as such. - Gothicfilm (talk) 08:48, 29 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Gothicfilm. Can't we then just change the word 'subgenre' in the lead to 'setting'? This would allow the mainspacing of the page but not allow it to be called a 'genre' until other sources are located. Thanks. Randy Kryn 11:15, 29 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

There are no academic sources referring to maritime science fiction as a genre, or they would have come up in the previous extended discussion. I don't believe WP does articles on settings, or again, it would have come up before. - Gothicfilm (talk) 21:30, 30 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I don't believe WP does articles on settings

That's wrong - see: Subterranean fiction & Nautical fiction.

and that maritime science fiction is a setting, not a genre

It's definitely a setting - I'm not sure if it could also be considered a genre. I don't think it would be a good idea to call it a genre either way as well so I'd support you changing the article accordingly.

I'm also not sure what the problem is here: it's just a draft and not in the mainspace.

--Fixuture (talk) 18:14, 6 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Both of those are called genres in their leads, and as you say, they're not. They might have problems if there was more awareness of them. Maritime science fiction came up because it was newly created again after being deleted by consensus. - Gothicfilm (talk) 01:45, 8 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

@Gothicfilm: I don't know if they can be considered genres - the genre article says "[...] is any category of literature, music, or other forms of art or entertainment, whether written or spoken, audio or visual, based on some set of stylistic criteria" so it can be very broad. I'd simply prefer using the term setting or sth alike because they're certainly that and to avoid confusion. Or do you have anything saying that settings are not categories of cultural works that can be called "genre"? (If so pls simply edit those articles.) --Fixuture (talk) 20:42, 14 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Unless some reliable sources can be found supporting this, it will be deleted. As Gothicfilm mentioned, and despite the optimism of Taeyebar, it is extremely unlikely this article will be allowed in mainspace because of this discussion, this discussion, and this discussion. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WP Japan! 01:40, 29 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

@Fixuture:, I don't have much time to edit today, but Maritime science fiction is not a genre, but a subgenre. There's an upcoming unpublished book by a sci-fi author and she calls it a subgenre. We can use that a source. Subgenres are typically based on tropes and settings. See Space Western and Cyberpunk as examples.--Taeyebar 00:18, 20 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

A few more

Here are a few more SF themed novels for consideration on this list. The Trench, Meg: Primal Waters, Meg: Hell's Aquarium, and The Illuminatus! Trilogy. The plot of the last one includes a submarine as a major setting in the trilogy, and the others can be lumped together as one listing. Randy Kryn (talk) 03:08, 14 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]

@Randy Kryn: this is good. Go ahead and add it. But once we do that, we need more sources. I have just added some. When you have time, can you please check them and maybe improve them in format? Thanks.--Taeyebar 23:07, 16 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]

No thanks, I hesitate to click on outside links, and I tried one of the sources and it took longer to load than I hang around for, and backed out. Do the links say outright that this is a sci-fi genre, or call it something else? It of course sure looks like a genre to anyone contemplating it, just have to have someone say it in print in a reputable place. Very good page, and I'll add those books if you don't want to do it, but not right now. Enjoy.Randy Kryn (talk) 00:06, 17 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Sources

[1][2] check them now they should work. the second book is by a sci-fi author but I don't think it's on sale yet. if you have any further info on the book, please add it. I do want to add the films, I'm adding them now, but I am preoccupied adding sources with the limited time I have right now on Wikipedia. Then i also have to stop that gothicfilm character before she/he comes back to destroy the page as they have been doing on a number of film and subgenre articles. Keep looking for more sources. That's our top priority. We'll worry about the rest later. Right now i'll add movies or books that you listed.--Taeyebar 20:47, 20 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Moving the above from my talk page to here. I'm not invested in the page as you, and just came by with the book titles. If the sources back this up as a genre or even a sub-genre then it shouldn't be much problem to get it mainspaced, which I would like to see happen. It's a good topic, and well worth being an article in the encyclopedia. Randy Kryn (talk) 04:00, 22 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Can we use this as a source

[3]--Taeyebar 22:25, 18 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Renaming article

Unless I hear a compelling argument against it, I'm going to rename this page to "List of underwater science fiction works". There are two arguments for this:

First, the term "maritime science fiction" appears pretty much nowhere. "Underwater science fiction" appears at least occasionally, including in the titles of three of the citations and external links in this article. For further evidence see the Google ngram viewer.

Second, maritime doesn't mean underwater. Maritime means (per Merriam-Webster) "of, relating to, or bordering on the sea". These are works of underwater fiction, not works of maritime fiction. Dan Bloch (talk) 17:05, 20 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

This is done. Dan Bloch (talk) 01:43, 22 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]