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I think Jerry Lawson absolutely meets importance/notoriety requirements, as he was the inventor of the first cartridge-based gaming system, and contributed significantly to the videogaming industry, whatever the relative success or lack thereof of the Fairchild Channel F system.

In addition, as one of the only black engineers in the industry at the time, he is an inspirational figure in his own right.

See http://www.vintagecomputing.com/index.php/archives/545 for an extensive interview with him. Jonabbey (talk) 21:40, 11 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

That's great. I had a good feeling that he was fairly notable. I've added in a {{morefootnotes}} template on top as a reminder that all the facts mentioned the article should be referenced via inline citations. Otherwise, it is not clear to the reader where and how the content was sourced. If I get around to it, I can do some cleanup there. MuZemike 16:39, 12 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
No he wasn't. The rom cartridge microprocessor video games console was invented by alpex and licensed to jerry Lawsons team Meandmynine (talk) 15:45, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Mm, I did add one footnote reference. I was concerned about the propriety of throwing a bunch of footnote references in such a short article, given that most of the facts mentioned stem from the interview linked above. I tried to footnote the one fact that I got from a secondary source, but the rest stems from interviews with him. Jonabbey (talk) 18:26, 12 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I would add citations after the first statement one at the end of director of engineering and marketing for Fairchild Semiconductor's video game division, and one at the end of the last two statements. I will add {{fact}} tags to show exactly where they should be added. Especially for biographies of living people where it is imperative that everything be reliably sourced in order to avoid harming the person's reputation, you cannot go wrong with providing verification for everything. Normally you should provide one verifiable reference for every fact provided in the article. This also avoids problems down the road with other users questioning verifiability or notability of the person. MuZemike 21:30, 12 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I like to read about inventions and usually find that its more involved than saying one person did something all by themselves. I found a link from a commenter on Engadget that tells a very in depth story of the Channel F. What do you think? [ http://www.fastcompany.com/3040889/the-untold-story-of-the-invention-of-the-game-cartridge] — Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.126.193.15 (talk) 14:54, 2 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Only African-American in the Homebrew Club?

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According to this page, Lawson was the only African-American member of the club,but on the Club's page there is mention of Ron Jones as another. Which is correct??? Rhodesisland (talk) 01:46, 5 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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"was survived"?

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In the death section: 

At the time of his death, he resided in Santa Clara, California, and was survived by his wife, two children, and his brother.

Is "was survived" a grammatical construct that I'm not familiar with, or a typo? I would change it to something more approachable, but I have no idea what this was meant to mean! I assume it actually means he died by their side? 50.232.73.154 (talk) 19:25, 1 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

It's very standard phrasing referring to family members who are still alive after one's death. See the second definition here. – Rhain ☔ (he/him) 23:55, 1 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
It's a standard phrase with the meaning given by Rhain. There's no implication that the surviving family members were with the decedent (the deceased person) at the time of their death. GrahamN-UK (talk) 11:59, 2 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 2 December 2022

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Under "Early Life", "At the age of 13, he gained an amateur ham radio license..." It should just read "amateur radio license". "Ham radio" is a nickname for the hobby. You could say 'ham radio license', but for a historical record I think the former is more appropriate. Either way listing both to prefix 'license' is odd. Like saying 'driving automobile-operator license'. Source- I'm licensed in the US. Also see https://wiki.riteme.site/wiki/Amateur_radio. 23.88.134.216 (talk) 02:22, 2 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

 Done. Thank you, fellow automobile operator. TGHL ↗ 🍁 04:02, 2 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Father of the cartridge?

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this states he was dubbed "father of the video game cartridge". But the technology of the rom cartridge and microprocessor console was licensed from alpex. They used alpex "555" patent. Alpex are the fathers of the rom cartridge Meandmynine (talk) 14:29, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

We go by how reliable sources defined him. Yes, the original tech came from Alpex but he went further to ensure cartridges could be safely inserted and removed by consumers without damaging the ROM or console. It's those innovations that he is credited for. Masem (t) 14:39, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The rom is encased in a huge block of plastic. It can not be damaged. And how is a single computer magazine that called him a debatable name a reliable source? What makes that magazine reliable? And consoles with cartridges existed before this, they knew how to not damage a plastic cartridge that slips in and out of the console. The magnovox odyssey used game cartridges. This guy isn't the father of anything Meandmynine (talk) 15:43, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
And cartridges were used in the magnovox odyssey. Gerry Lawson invented neither roms or cartridges Meandmynine (talk) 15:56, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
There's multiple sources that confirm this. Yes, Alpex had made cartridges but they left the fact that their connectors lacked durability and safety for consumer use to Fairchild, which was a problem that Lawson solved to allow repeated insertion and removal without problems. [1] [2] [3] Masem (t) 17:18, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
no. Alpex hadn't made cartridges. They just had a patent for a rom cartridge and microprocessor console from 1975 called the 555 patent. So there was no durability/safety concern as the design had not yet been turned into hardware. Lawson solved nothing, he was just the team lead of his parent company turning alpex invention into a console. Meandmynine (talk) 19:37, 21 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
We have no reliable sources that say this. We do have sources that say Alpex had made the idea of a swappable ram cartridge, but they didn't solve the consumer side of the issue (the safety and electrical issue of repeated insertion/removal while the power was on for rom cartridges), which is what Lawson and his team did with Alpex's technology. Masem (t) 19:45, 21 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
alpex didn't have anything to solve as they did not build any console before this. They had a patent for a microprocessor rom games console that jerry Lawson's parent company payed a licence fee for. Also why is nothing you mentioned backed up with sources in the article? Looking at all this logically, jerry has been wrongly attributed as the father of the games cartridge. Meandmynine (talk) 22:58, 21 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I have added several sources in the body of the article to support this. Masem (t) 23:52, 21 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
If you read part ten of your sources thoroughly, it states Lawson had no input to the cartridge and that was left to cartridge mechanism designer Ron Smith, and cartridge packaging designer nick telesfore. It's very clear. As I said, wrongly attributed. Meandmynine (talk) 00:53, 22 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
hi, why haven't you updated the article to say cartridge mechanism designer Ron Smith, and cartridge packaging designer nick telesfore made the cartridge? 2A00:23C6:C712:1C01:8DD3:A7E6:FFC8:8490 (talk) 13:14, 3 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Also, the Odyssey did not have ROM cartridges, they were circuit boards with connectors, so are excluded from the ROM cartridge aspect. Masem (t) 17:22, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I know this. But simple cartridge connectors had been sorted out here. What alpex invented was putting a rom inside a cartridge. They weren't struggling with simple connectors. Meandmynine (talk) 19:34, 21 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Wrongly attributed piece of hardware

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If you read part ten of your sources thoroughly, it states Lawson had no input to the cartridge and that was left to cartridge mechanism designer Ron Smith, and cartridge packaging designer nick telesfore. It's very clear. Lawson was in charge of software. So in no way is he father of the cartridge. Why isn't this being corrected by anyone? It's a glaring mistake which is easily rectifiable 2A00:23C6:C712:1C01:8DD3:A7E6:FFC8:8490 (talk) 13:11, 3 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Several sources refer to him as the father of the game cartridge—so, with attribution, we do the same. – Rhain ☔ (he/him) 13:28, 3 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
but the evidence stated in number 10 states that, cartridge mechanism designer Ron Smith, and cartridge packaging designer nick telesfore made the cartridge. These guys from alpex licensed Fairchild the 555 patent of a microprocessor console with rom. Then made the actual cartridge themselves, yet jerry is called the father of the gaming cartridge? Like I said he's been wrongly attributed and we have sources to very this. Can we please update the article now? 2A00:23C6:C712:1C01:8DD3:A7E6:FFC8:8490 (talk) 14:44, 3 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
That's original research if sources are not saying other than him being the father of the cartridge. We can be sure to explain that he worked with others to build the cartridge, but it seems implicit that Lawson had these ideas and had more expert people in their respective area find the best implementation towards it. But to say that he wasn't the father when most sources use that attribution would be wrong. Masem (t) 14:56, 3 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
its totally wrong. The original sources are wrong. And no Jerry's paremt company licensed this technology from alpex. Then the guys from alpex built the cartridge mechanism. Jerry put software on these products, it says right there in the citation number 10. Jerry had the least input to the cartridge and yet is labelled the father of it. This article should read "jerry was attributed the father of the gaming cartridge, but that has been proven to be false in subsequent years". It's strange the real inventors and makers are not named. I thought this was Wikipedia? How can the article not match evidence and citations? 2A00:23C6:C712:1C01:44A7:D4A6:5F4:23F5 (talk) 19:19, 10 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Besides your own claims, what sources specifically and explicitly deny that Lawson should be considered the father of the cartridge? Not just sources that say Lawson had the work done by others, but specifically challenging the "father" claim? Masem (t) 19:59, 10 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Number 10 in the article 2A00:23C6:C712:1C01:44A7:D4A6:5F4:23F5 (talk) 08:11, 11 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
well the evidence itself challenges the father claim. how can he be the father when the 555 patent for miscroprocessor with rom was licensed from alpex, then the two guys who invented that patent made the cartridge. Putting software on hardware is what Sony and Microsoft do today. They're not the fathers. And that's all jerry did. 2A00:23C6:C712:1C01:44A7:D4A6:5F4:23F5 (talk) 08:17, 11 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
As far as I can tell, that source doesn't even mention the "father" claim, let alone deny it "specifically and explicitly" as Masem requested. If you want to challenge that claim, you ought to take it up with media outlets and publishers; Wikipedia is not the place to correct their mistakes. – Rhain ☔ (he/him) 08:21, 11 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/ROM_cartridge and the other page on rom cartridges disproves this itself. It says roms were made before any channel f. And when they did make it 3 people from alpex made it. Jerry didn't work for alpex. Another mistake, he worked for Fairchild. 2A00:23C6:C712:1C01:44A7:D4A6:5F4:23F5 (talk) 08:20, 11 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Wikipedia is not a reliable source itself Masem (t) 14:53, 11 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
https://www.fastcompany.com/3040889/the-untold-story-of-the-invention-of-the-game-cartridge he's not mentioned in this article because he didn't invent it. "In subsequent years we have found that to be untrue". 2A00:23C6:C712:1C01:44A7:D4A6:5F4:23F5 (talk) 08:22, 11 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
He's mentioned several times in that article. – Rhain ☔ (he/him) 09:17, 11 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
That's true, mainly as Fairchild's head engineer sent to evaluate licencing the technology from alpex. And also mentioned making a joystick to console instead of a keyboard. The article writer Benjy Edwards who interviewed Jerry in 2009 noticed that jerry was being credited as the inventor of this technology and clarified on twitter that, that isn't the case, his opening to the article is this, If you’ve ever used one, you have two men to thank: Wallace Kirschner and Lawrence Haskel, who invented the game cartridge 40 years ago while working at an obscure company and rebounding from a business failure. He also pointed out that Nintendo was taken to court by alpex and made to pay 263 million dollars for not paying for a licence for this technology. Fairchild didn't have to pay because they paid a licence fee. He pointed out the fee is paid to the inventors and patent holders not jerry. He is the father of nothing and I'm not really sure why he's even mentioned. He was in charge of software and had no input to any of the physical aspects of the cartridge. It was built before his parent company licensed the technology. And it was even refined by two men after they had paid the patent fee. 2A00:23C4:288D:8901:C468:6CEC:EB7B:D3BB (talk) 16:28, 14 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Again, you need sources that specifically and explicitly deny he should be called the father of the cartridge. I have little doubt that the reliable sources that do call him the father of the cartridge fully understood who actually did the physical work but still consider Lawson the person who has the foresight to make a cartridge based game system viable. It's similar to Ralph Baer being considered the father of video games even though he only did some of the work for the first protype, as it was his ideas put into the work done by others to get it going. Masem (t) 16:40, 14 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
thats quite easy. Looking through the evidence in the citations, that seems to have happened because one magazine said it and people got carried away with it. I think it takes a little more than a magazine article for you to be dubbed something. All the other articles saying this are based off that wrong information. Geez, that was easy. I could write an article claiming Elon musk to be the father of AI because he did some work on it. It still wouldn't be true and would be the source of the misinformation. Even if you say he was dubbed the father of the gaming cartridge, we now have the evidence to say that it was wrong and that should also be mentioned in the article. Why are you so against truth? "Jerry Lawson is known as the father of the gaming cartridge, but in recent years we have found that to be untrue, mainly based on a single magazine source from the time". Ralph baer is a bad comparison, as it was his idea. This wasn't Jerry's idea. And what do you mean foresight to get it going? They paid a fee to use somebody's patent. If I built Lewis latimers light bulb patents does that mean I'm the father of his designs? NO. You guys need to wise up here. I might change this article myself 2A00:23C6:C712:1C01:51E3:982:8CB0:73A7 (talk) 08:02, 22 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I could write an article claiming Elon musk to be the father of AI because he did some work on it—sure, and if multiple reliable sources repeated the same claim for some time, it would probably be included on Wikipedia too.
As I said above, if you believe the nickname is incorrect and want it corrected, you should take it to media outlets and publishers. Wikipedia is not the place to right great wrongs; we just report information from reliable sources. – Rhain ☔ (he/him) 08:14, 22 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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