Talk:Dreamfall: The Longest Journey

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Suggestion for plot "holes"

One of the things I was wondering about for quite some time that I think should be added to the list of unresolved elements is the strange creatures that live underground between Stark and Arcadia. It seems to me that these could be the remnants of the Tyren who invaded Marcuria, since not much else is said about them besides that they were a barbaric tribe who invaded, and the creatures (especially Grubbers) seem to generally fit that description to me. The idea may also be supported by saying that perhaps these are just the small amount who decided not to fight or who retreated after the Azadi fought them off, so they lived underground since they had nowhere else to go. It makes sense that they could have possibly escaped from upper Arcadia to this area (though it is not truly confirmed this area is a part of Arcadia) because when Zoe opens the portal between the two places, it required the melody that these creatures sing to open their doors, so they obviously know how to open it to go back and forth if they desired, as well as the hooded messenger that April follows, who can order them around. This also brings some interesting questions about what link they have to the Chamber of Dreams, since this is in their "area," it seems they may have had some kind of connection to this. It does seem a little odd, though, that since I believe April was around when the Tyren invaded (correction?) she would have recognized them as such when she went underground, though when you examine their statues in the 4-statue maze puzzle down in the caves, she says something about the statues looking very familiar to a species she saw up on the surface.

One other issue that is odd is how Benrime claims that she didn't see the hooded messenger pass through the Journeyman Inn when April clearly saw him walk through the door, and he would have had to walk right past Benrime since the door to the portal is behind the bar. Is it possible he cast an invisibility spell of some sort on himself before he walked through? Is she involved in a deeper, anti-April plot in somehow and was covering up for the guy? This struck me as really strange but it was never explained.

I was just thinking about adding these to that list, someone else can shorten them and paraphrase if they want to, after more opinions about if they should be added or not are collected. I'm probably going to play through the game again because I feel like there were a few other elements that were left unresolved that I'm forgetting about.Aeugnewtype 00:50, 7 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The unresolved issue with the Grubbers may indeed be considered notable, however, I don't think they are Tyren, more like distant relatives of Banda (see Na'ane and April's dialogue about them, plus, April has had much more contact with them than with Tyren), like Maerum and Alatien are related to each other. But that explanation could be added, too. However, the thing with the unnoticeable Prophet is very likely explained by his magical powers. AFAIR Benrime wasn't alone in the tavern and unless we assume that everyone inside was part of the conspiracy, as well, I believe it's easier to accept the Prophet's magical invisibility abilities (that are hardly unprecedented in TLJ). --Koveras ^☭ 07:04, 7 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I was thinking about the Prophet's invisibility earlier today. Perhaps the fact that only April seemingly saw him is also part of the plot? I mean, maybe it's one of her other abilities we have yet to know about? ~ Wapiko 06:19, 11 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

It is most likely. She is, after all, the only artisan in the games who has been clearly identified as such (although she has yet to develop those dormant abilities of hers). --Koveras ^☭ 07:42, 11 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Spoiler warning

When more plot detail is added to the page, please remember to add the {{spoiler}} and {{endspoiler}} tags appropriately. Burns flipper 11:55, 26 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Pebbles do have a purpose

I removed this sentence:

These pebbles do not have a use, and inexplicably disappear once she gets to the Journeyman Inn.

They do have a use. You can throw them at the sea to distract the creatures (not that you really need to since you can easily sneak past them without doing so)... —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Nil Einne (talk • contribs) .

POV and percentages

Anon editor said in his edit summary: "Fix media reception overview POV: Overall, the reviews are clearly positive, see the link. Therefore the summary shouldn't use 75% of the words for negative aspects." Said edit significantly changed the content of that paragraph and not only removes the mention of the shortness of the game, but also downplays the severity of the negative critical response to the combat and stealth elements in the game.

Just to pick examples, I quote GameSpy: "Second, there's the addition of a poor fighting system that's nothing but a confused button-mashing affair, and some "stealth" sequences that are even worse than the fighting system." And IGN: "[I]ntelligent design was given a back seat to painfully simplistic fighting and sneaking sequences. The combat is, for all intents and purposes, a total joke." And The Onion A.V. Club: "The developers made just one mistake: They forgot the game. Instead of going the out-of-fashion route of stumping players at every turn, they scaled back the difficulty—and came up with something that has the interactivity of a pop-up book. Aside from a handful of trivial puzzles and awkward fight scenes, you'll spend hours just walking from one dialogue and plot point to the next." And The New York Times: "The good news for adventure gamers is that battles are infrequent and so easy that your cat could win a fight by randomly pushing controller buttons with its nose. Unfortunately, jabbing at a couple of buttons until your enemy falls down is not a lot of fun."

This is a significant negative critical response from important publications to what is not only a fairly important element of the game but also a notable change from the previous game in the series. It should not be downplayed, and we certainly can't go by percentages, of all things -- we're providing information here, and NPOV is not about calculating how many people in the world like something and then making sure any article about that subject has a comparable percentage of words devoted to information about positive response. Honestly, the very concept boggles the mind.

Accordingly, I'm restoring the section in question and would prefer that anyone who feels the need to tone the negative aspects down again would explain his reasoning before doing so (and perhaps register an account here to make communication easier). -- Captain Disdain 10:41, 14 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

You are not saying the truth: I didn't "remove" any shortness you mentioned. Instead I added(!) positive aspects.

Your summary wording was not NPOV, because it lists negative aspects in detail (gameplay, combat, stealth), whereas the positive side is only mentioned generally in half a sentence, without listing positive aspects in detail. This does simply not reflect the fact that overall critics are positive.

Ok, now I did the following changes:

1. I added(!) the positive aspects again. I think this should be really no problem.

2. I use the wording "most critics ... are positive" again, first because this is just the truth (see the meta-critics link), and second because it is easier (the old one was a quote from the meta-critics side which you cannot understand without looking at the definition at their site).

3. I DIDN'T change the wording of the negative aspects of the game, since the particular wording ("simplistic and unsatisfying" instead of "half-hearted") seems to the important for you.

4. I added the word "new" again, because without this word is sounded like a regression compared to the predecessor, but in fact the predecessor had no such elements at all.

5. I merged your two sentences into one, so that now there is one sentence about the postive aspects, and one about the negative aspects. Is this really a problem for a game where most reviews are positive? 84.151.119.113 06:56, 15 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Well, uh, yes you did. When "[W]hile some lament the shortness of gameplay. The game has also been criticized for its simplistic and unsatisfying combat and stealth elements." becomes "Some criticize the gameplay, for example the half-hearted new combat and stealth elements.", I would say that you did indeed remove specific things from the article -- it's not just the wording of the latter part, you removed the bit about the shortness of the gameplay entirely.

But you're right, adding the positive aspects is no problem, that's certainly fair enough. The current version looks good, fair and NPOV-friendly to me. Nice job. And thanks for responding here -- it always makes life easier in situations like this when people explain themselves. =) -- Captain Disdain 08:22, 15 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Well, I didn't want to remove negative aspects; now I realize that with "shortness of gameplay" you ment something more specific than just "shortcomings of gameplay", so now I understand your complaint - sorry for that. 84.151.119.113 16:25, 15 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Review score

There's a portion of the article that I take issue with. "with 71% of collected reviews giving it at least 8/10 (the passable score for video games)"

That parenthetical statement should be removed. What is or is not a "good score" is something that changes from publication to publication, and in any case I think anybody would argue that 8 is at the very least above "passable".

It's not such a big deal, things like that should be corrected immediately. :) --Koveras ^☭ 17:16, 3 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Proposal: Deleting "Media reception" section

I propose deleting the whole "media reception" section. I've never seen such a section in any other entry for a computer game. (And I've browsed the history of the entry of this game, and my impression is that a single person just wanted to make the game down.) Instead, I suggest adding an external link to the review overview. The meta-critics page anyway has a better summary of reviews, and a good selection of review quotes. Objections? 84.151.119.113 07:14, 15 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Well, many, if not most of our lenghtier video game articles deal with how the game was received among the critics and the players. That said, I have no problem with moving the information under that heading somewhere else, though, as long as the actual content -- which I feel is very relevant for anyone who's not already familiar with the game and wants to read up on it -- is preserved.

As for a single person "wanting to make the game down", if you're referring to me... please. I didn't create the "Media Reception" section, and the media reception of the combat and stealth elements has been pretty negative -- indeed, even many, if not all of the MetaCritic reviews that give them game an excellent score point comment negatively on these segments. (As a matter of fact, the single best score of the bunch is from GameSpy, and even that refers to the combat as "confused button-mashing affair" and immediately goes on to say that the "stealth sequences are even worse", which is hardly high praise.) -- Captain Disdain 08:35, 15 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I wasn't referring to you. If I remember correctly, at some earlier stage, someone added the section about "mixed reviews" at a stage where the page didn't contain anything useful about the game itself. I would say this is untypical - why does someone cite negative reviews instead of first writing about the game itself? Usually fans of a game are the first who start contributing to the Wikipedia entry of the game, writing about the game itself.

Yes, many of the MetaCritics reviews mention the same negative aspects, but neverthanless most reviews are definitely positive. Which is understandable, because both combat and stealth play no major role in the game, and they even didn't exist in TLJ at all. Therefore it is no fundamental problem if they are bad in Dreamfall. If Dreamfall would be an fighting game, then it would have a serious problem, of course.

Look, folks, I agree that the "Reception" section should stay but if someone thinks it does not contain NPOV, they are free to correct it. :) --Koveras

17:16, 15 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Just a note

Might change the PEGI rating in the article now, as this game gone 16+ now.

The box art still shows 12+. Is there a (public knowledge, citeable) reason the rating was changed? Seems like something that should go in the article. --Thegooseking (talk) 19:03, 22 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Dilogy?

I noticed that under the Questions raised by the story section, someone has mentioned that Dreamfall may in fact be part of a dilogy, with a future release concluding the story. In this case, wouldn't the series in fact be a trilogy, The Longest Journey being the first part, Dreamfall the second, and the as yet unconfirmed final chapter the third? I know Ragnar Tornquist has said that he plans to finish the story, one way or the other, but whether or not there will be a video game sequel depends partly on how well Dreamfall sells. In either case, I would think that the Longest Journey would still definitely be an integral part of the series, making it a trilogy. RightClickSaveAs 21:22, 4 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

It's a bit tricky, you see: TLJ was a completely independend and finished work. Dreamfall can also be played independently, but it is unfinished, so there'll probably be "Dreamfall 2" a.k.a. "TLJ3". The tricky part is whether we consider Dreamfall a finished game or a half of the game (say, "TLJ2") with the other half still unpublished. Therefore we must draw a line between The Longest Journey trilogy (TLJ, Dreamfall, Dreamfall II) and the Dreamfall dilogy (Dreamfall, Dreamfall II). I also want to point out that in one of the early interwviews Tornquist mentioned that he had plans for a TLJ sequel and a pequel in his head, so, if Dreamfall dilogy is that sequel, the prequel is yet to be announced. TLJ trilogy may well turn out to be a tetralogy. --Koveras

08:25, 5 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

This isn't mine but the comparison between the Star Wars 4-6 trilogy is IMHO an apt one here. Star Wars 4 was more or less a complete story. Star Wars 5 ended abruptly with lots of unanswered questions although it was still IMHO a complete story in it's own right ala DF. Nil Einne 14:42, 16 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

This comparison has been, in fact, long circulated among the fans and is generally agreed upon as reasonable. :) --Koveras ^☭ 15:02, 16 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Cliffhanger

{{spoiler}} What about Helena Chang? Why did she kill Zoe? And I might be wrong, but isn't implied thats shes Zoes mother? Before she kills Zoe she says "You really are a very beautiful girl, so like your father. I never thought I'd see you again"

This is not a discussion thread, but an encyclopedia. :) If you want to discuss the game, I can advice the official forums. --Koveras

15:18, 12 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

There is indeed a strong sugestion that she's zoës mother, this should be inserted in the "Questions raised by the story" section Markornikov 21:05, 11 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Why is there no mention in the main page of the White Kin being attacked at the end? There are really three cliff hangers, including this one. 71.29.67.121 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 07:17, 23 November 2011 (UTC).[reply]

The screenshots

I was wondering why the thumbnails were reduced to 200px and all aligned to the left. I felt that it had more of an estetic value if there was some shuffling of the screenies, and not just sticking them all to the left. Furthermore, I believe that the 300px was not hindering the overall look of the article, and should be restored to that value. These pictures are too tiny now, you can't see anything on them, you HAVE to click to see the fullsize in order to see anything. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Vniksic (talk • contribs)

First of all, Wikipedia isn't a promotional pamphlet to look all cool and flashy. While I understand your wish to make the article more visually attractive, I assure you that to people who use lower screen resolutions, 300px width of the illustrations looks really huge and hence makes the page unreadable. And the whole reason behind thumbs is to make people click on them if interested or ignore them at wish. Moreover, AFAIU the current set of screenshots does not contain any crucial information about the game. As for their alignment, let's just say that the further apart the graphical elements (here, list bullets and images) are, the less overloaded the page looks. --Koveras 13:49, 14 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

How about a compromise, I was looking through other game-related articles, and they generally have 250px and have them aligned to the left and right. So, perhaps, we could align them as they were, and put 250px thumbs? What do you say? Vladimir

All right, let's try it out. :) --Koveras 08:44, 16 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Development Time

Does anyone know how long it took to develop Dreamfall? Some sort of development history would be welcome. The Longest Journey was completed in 1999. Unless there were some (financial) difficulties, I can't imagine it took them 6-7 years to develop Dreamfall. More information would be welcome. --Shadowcode 15:14, 15 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

One segment in Ragnar Tørnquist's personal blog reads, "Even if we could, I don’t think we’d want to jump right into a Dreamfall sequel. You want a bit of distance and perspective after three long years in the trenches."[1] Pending more precise information, the current answer to your question appears to be "about three years." PattonPending 23:47, 23 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Game Play

What sort of game play does it entail, what camera view, etc. --Dark Side of the Moon 00:41, 28 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Trivia

Doesn't Zöe's cellphone play the first part of the intro to the original sid meier's civilization where the world is created? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Aza (talk • contribs)

{{spoiler}}

Is this correct

While Na'ane says that she plans to go to the ancient ruins underneath Marcuria to investigate the song magic of the strange creatures that live there, no further information is provided about her voyage there, and the next time she appears is when she leads Kian to April's location.

I could be wrong but I'm pretty sure they showed the sequence wheen Na'ane was caught by Kian Nil Einne 14:32, 16 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Well, technically, it is the scene where she starts leading him to April. %) --Koveras ^☭ 15:02, 16 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Helena

The relation between Faith, Helena Chang, and Zoe Castillo is unclear. Helena Chang knew a Castillo once, and seems to have known Zoe for a long time (there are hints throughout the story that she's, in fact, her biological mother). Helena Chang might also be the 'white lady' that Faith refers to at the end of the game. Further, Faith believes that she is Zoe's sister and that might not be so far-fetched, seeing as we do not know anything definite about Zoe's mother.

Unless my memory is failing me, Helena specifically said something about knowing Zoe's father as well at the end (something like "You remind me of your father"). Perhaps this is one of the hints that Helena iz Zoe's mother that we mention but it seems to me that's it compelling enough to mention. Also, shouldn't we mentioned that Zoe's mother supposedly died at some stage when Zoe was young Nil Einne 14:39, 16 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

No, at the beginning she only mentions "a Castillo". But she does say that Zoe looks like her father in the very end, when Zoe has gone to sleep. As for the Zoe's mother's death, I think, it has to be included as early as in the character section... --Koveras ^☭ 15:02, 16 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Well yes, that's what I said/meant. If she said Zoe looks like her father, she must at least know what he looks like. To me this implies she knew him but it is possible she would know what he looks like without knowing him I guess Nil Einne 20:10, 22 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Low priority

Anyone else feel low priority within gaming is unfair? IMHO it deserves at least a mid priority. TLJ is high priority BTW Nil Einne 07:33, 20 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Looking through the history, it was originally given mid [2] but downgraded to low by someone else [3]. I feel like being bold and increasing it myself, but I'm a fan so obviously biased Nil Einne 07:36, 20 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Seeing that the game has got some awards and spawned huge discussions on internet forums, I've moved the priority back to Mid. It may be not the most prominent game release of 2006, but it's certainly in the top 50. :) --Koveras ^☭ 08:13, 20 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Awards and Media reception

How would people feel about making awards its own section and slotting it lower in the article, perhaps near the trivia section? That's usually how it's done on other pages, isn't it? And if the awards section is moved then the "Media reception" section would only be about critical response, so how about renaming it something like "critical reception" or something like that?—Vancouver86er 09:26, 29 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Awards
GameSpot
Won	Best of E3: Best Adventure Game (2004)
Nominated	Best Xbox Game (2006)
GameSpy
Won	PC Adventure Game of the Year (2006)
IGN
Runner-Up	PC Best Original Score (2006)
2006 MTV Video Music Awards
Nominated	Best Video Game Score (Leon Willett) (2006)

Sounds reasonable. Though the trivia section has to go, anyway, sooner or later. :) Additionally, I don't like the lot of empty white space we currently have to the right of the awards list. Even if we did move the list down, we'd still have the article stretched thin... I therefore propose following: we format the awards list as a table you can see on your right and leave it hanging in the reception section. However, the section itself will be renamed to "Critical reception", as you suggested, and all subheadings be removed. Additionally, the entire section should be moved down beneath the soundtrack, for I feel bad about separating Story/Chara sections and "Questions". :) What do you think? --Koveras ^☭ 11:43, 29 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Let me just clarify this a bit ... you're suggesting that: (1) the awards section will be kept within the "Media reception" section, which will be renamed "Critical reception," (2) the awards section will be reformatted into a table, and (3) the new "Critical reception" section will be moved lower and will replace the "Trivia" section, which you say will have to go. Did that get all that right? Other than not being up to speed on the whole trivia, "keep it or lose it" controversy, I've got no problem with your proposals. By the way, why do you want to get rid of the trivia section? Don't all long game pages have a trivia section?—Vancouver86er 18:11, 29 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Me, I have no problem with trivia but according to 1001 criteria of a featured article, no trivia should be allowed. I don't say that it has to go immediately, but be warned that sooner or later some wikinazi's gonna show up and propose our article for deletion because there is a trivia section in it. And trust me, appeals to other game articles with large similar sections will just be ignored - I've seen that far too many times. Oh, and yes, you've got me 100% right. :) Who of us two is gonna do it? --Koveras ^☭ 19:25, 29 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I guess I'll do it ... I'll leave the trivia section alone and let people dilliberate —Vancouver86er 02:24, 30 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Great job and a wise decision. :) --Koveras ^☭ 12:56, 30 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Should we really include the readers' choices to the list? --Koveras ^☭ 15:49, 13 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Awards, again

Uhm, the list is really getting out of hand now... I propose following new structure:

Awards and distinctions
Publisher	Won	Runner-Up	Nominated
GameSpot	Best of E3: Best Adventure Game (2004) Best Voice Acting (2006) Reader's Choice Best Xbox Game (2006) Reader's Choice Best Game No One Played (2006)		Best of E3: Best Adventure Game (2005) Best Xbox Game (2006) Best Original Music (2006) Best Story (2006) Best New Character: Zoë Castillo (2006) Best Game No One Played (2006)
GameSpy	Best of E3: Best Adventure Game (2004) April Game of the Month (2006) Editor's Choice (2006) PC Adventure Game of the Year (2006) Xbox Adventure Game of the Year (2006) PC Best Music (2006) PC Best Story (2006) PC Adventure Gamers' Choice (2006)	3^rd in Xbox Top 5 Games of the Year (2006) 5^th in Xbox Gamers' Choice (2006) 8^th in PC Top 10 Games of the Year (2006) 10^th in PC Overall Gamers' Choice (2006)
AdventurePlanet.it	Best 3D Graphics (2006) Best Plot (2006) Best Audio (2006) Best Character: Zoë Castillo (2006) Best Third Person Adventure (2006) Best Adventure (2006)	2^nd in Best Dialogues (2006) 3^rd in Best Atmosphere (2006)
Interactive Achievement Awards			Outstanding Achievement in Story and Character Development (2007)

And so on, then put it to the bottom of the Reception section. I am also thinking about removing the redundant "(2006)" message and instead mentioning somewhere in the vicinity that "all awards from year 2006 unless specifically stated otherwise". Now I expect creative comments. ;) --Koveras ^☭ 14:29, 6 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Connection to Australian Aboriginal mythology?

Is it just me or is many parts of the game connected to (or at least borrowed elements from) the Australian Aboriginal mythology? Things like Alchera, Eingana and Dreamtime are documented on Wikipedia and I've added it in the Trivia section. Does anyone know more about this? --antilived^{T | C | G} 10:28, 20 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, in fact, there are many allusions to different mythologies and countries in Dreamfall. See this web-site. --Koveras ^☭ 12:25, 20 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I don't know about Aboriginals, but I think Dreamfall is very similar to Beyond Good and Evil. Strong female lead, magical stuff, non-human sentients, investigative journalism, occupying force that 'protects' while hiding some ulterior motive, rebel fighters, all the sneaking around, two button combat system, and a large mix of old and new technology.

Maybe these games are just in the same genre, but I think they share strong similarities.

Silhouette of Zoë

From the article:

Further when April is underground in the river there can be seen a silhouette of Zoë standing in the river. It is interesting to note that at this time Zoë is standing near Eingana, thus suggesting that the Chamber of Dreams that April enters is also Eingana, just as how in the Longest Journey, Gordan had representations in both worlds.

This may just be a glitch in some releases of the game in certain regions and possibly has nothing to do with the story. There are threads about it here and here --84.9.199.157 11:52, 11 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Title: Dreamfall or Dreamfall: The Longest Journey?

The title seems to be Dreamfall: The Longest Journey, still this page is named simply Dreamfall. Does anyone know what is correct. Also The Longest Journey referes to the original norwegian title (Den Lengste Reisen), why doesn't this do the same (Drømmefall: Den Lengste Reisen). Mamen 11:23, 23 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Dreamfall: The Longest Journey is the full title that indicates that subj is the sequel to TLJ, however, simple Dreamfall is the more commonly used title simply because it's shorter. --Koveras ^☭ 11:47, 23 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I, for one, feel the article should use the full title. I don't feel that the "common" naming convention applies to titles of works, which, in my experience, are generally referred to by their full title for Wiki purposes. Compare, for example, Dr. Strangelove or: How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Bomb, or for a video game example, Peter Jackson's King Kong: The Official Game of the Movie. Admiral Rupert 02:13, 23 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

is Faith an Onryō?

The little girl is very similar to the one from Ring movie series... also to Alma from F.E.A.R. game. Could her character be based on Onryō legend? --sturm 00:17, 24 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

It's not the first time Faith is mentioned in this context and it is certainly not random, however, before we add something as OR, one should first find a review or another article that points out the similarity between Samara, Alma, and Faith (it shouldn't be too much of a problem btw)... Then, we can put this into Cultural references section. :) --Koveras ^☭ 07:46, 24 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Fair use rationale for Image:Dreamfall cover.jpg

Image:Dreamfall cover.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in Wikipedia articles constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.BetacommandBot 03:45, 3 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Adventure game priority

I increased the rating for adventure games back to high priority. While I agree it's lower priority then TLJ and I'm not sure whether TLJ qualifies for top priority, DF is still important enough for high priority. It was one of the most significant and anticipated adventure games in recent years, and one of the few to make much of an impact outside of the (sadly) normally fairly closed world of the more classical adventure games. The nature of the ratings means that there is always going to be variance in the priority within a level. Nil Einne 11:18, 4 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I support Nil Einne in this issue and would like to point out that both TLJ and its "sequel" Dreamfall are among the most significant adventures of their respective times and, thus, both deserve high priority. --Koveras ^☭ 11:59, 4 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Sections

I was thinking: do we really need system requirements in the article? I think they should be available on the official website and in most serious reviews on the net, and whichever data is not there is original research on out part... I mean, featured video game articles never have an extra section for just requirements, at most, a brief summary in the infobox (e.g. Morrowind).

I therefore suggest we move the most basic data to the infobox and delete the section, simultaneously renaming "Soundtrack" to "Music" and moving it one header level up to avoid having just one subsection in a section. --Koveras ^☭ 18:24, 20 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Change the name of the article

The correct, full and official name of the game is "Dreamfall: The Longest Journey", not just "Dreamfall".

I suggest that this article together with its talk page is moved to the Dreamfall: The Longest Journey article (which redirects to the Dreamfall article - this one), and then this article would become a redirect to the Dreafall The Longest Journey article. diego_pmc 22:02, 7 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Well, if other contributors would support this, I suppose it is acceptable. However, we'll need an admin to reset the current history of D:TLJ, before this article can be moved there (due to technical restrictions of MediaWiki). --Koveras ^☭ 22:27, 7 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Yes I know I must get approval. I did it myself some time ago, and it was undone, and I was accused of vandalism.

You know what it says on the article about Wikipedia about the fact that new people addapt very hard here due to the administrations is quite true. Anyway: Does anyone have anything against this suggestion? diego_pmc 09:37, 8 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

[offtopic]The adaptation is not that difficult if you join the community already expecting lots of rules to be there. :) Also, if you start small (like making a few contributions to the article or discussing bigger improvements first), other people would be much more eager to tolerate any eventual mistakes you may make and correct you instead of calling you a vandal. Everyone here is human: if you talk things out, you'll surely be understood.[/offtopic] --Koveras ^☭ 09:48, 8 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Well, no answers so I guess that means nobody is against this.

How does one tell an admin about something like this? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Diego pmc (talk • contribs) 09:23, 9 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

You find an admin and tell him. ^^;;; Well, to make things easier for you, there is a specialized project page for such things: see Wikipedia:Requested moves. In the rationale, list your arguments and mention that a (silent) consensus has been reached on the talk page. :) --Koveras ^☭ 11:52, 9 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Unencyclopedic information

Okay, is anyone here in favor of restoring some of the deleted stuff? :) --Koveras ^☭ 22:59, 16 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Video games with female protagonists

Why should this page not use this template? The game still has two female protagonists. The template doesn't say: Video games with ONLY female protagonists. Mamen 08:19, 4 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I see. :) Would you include every CRPG that gives the player a possibility of choosing PC's gender, too? :) --Koveras ^☭ 09:14, 4 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Good point. However RPGs have more generic characteristics. And there is no doubt that Zoe is the main-"main character", and even April has a much bigger role than Kian.Mamen (talk) 09:16, 5 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Well, let's see if the category survives AfD nomination and decide upon this point afterwards. :) In any case, the original TLJ definitely qualifies for it (as April is the only playable character there). --Koveras ^☭ 10:50, 5 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

It's an adventure game, not action/adventure despite the action elements.

While Dreamfall has some action elements (stealth, fighting) those are in no way a primary focus of the game (naturally, as that would make it an action game), nor does it work hand in hand, on the same level of focus of gameplay, as the adventure gameplay. The latter would make it an action/adventure, as can be plainly seen in such archetypical action/adventure games like Resident Evil, Legend of Zelda, Metroid, ICO, etc.

While this may seem strange, in that Dreamfall does have those action segments, the segments are not a major point of gameplay, but rather just segments of the game that serve as a break from the adventure gameplay (investigation - which include exploration, interviews of NPCs, logic/environmental puzzles). There's a break between the main adventure and those side action elements.

And Dreamfall is not the first adventure game to have action segments. Kojima's Snatcher had light gun combat in a handful of sections - but it's still an adventure game, not action/adventure. Similarly, Sega/AM2's Shenmue (by way of Yu Suzuki) was one of the first "direct character control" adventure games, and it too had action gameplay segments (FREE Battles, QTEs). Same with Quantic Dream's Omikron: The Nomad Soul and Indigo Prophecy/Fahrenheit. And even Sierra's Rise of the Dragon had a side scrolling shooting and gallery shooting sections.

In action/adventure games, there's no "break" in one or the other. Both are at once, and serve each other. In a game like Dreamfall, there's a definite "shift" between the two, and as one spends most of the time in adventure gameplay mode, the game can be thought of as an adventure game rather than hybrid.Therealspiffyone (talk) 00:08, 7 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Well, you are making a good point but your argumentation is pure original research. ;) Here is how it is done: GameSpot says " Genre: Adventure ", GameSpy says "Genre: Adventure", IGN says "Genre: Third-Person Adventure". --Koveras ^☭ 08:10, 7 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I thought I'd leave it up to the "experts" such as yourself to come forth with the "evidence". ;) All kidding aside, I know I should've gone with links to support my claims...but often those sites get things wrong too. I mean...have you seen how many different ways GameSpot labels the Metroid series of games (sans Hunters and Pinball). But, I suppose that's one of the issues with a young medium such as video games: the definitions haven't been universally accepted. As such, original research seems to be the way to go on these things for the time being. Anyway, thanks for the helping hand.Therealspiffyone (talk) 01:09, 8 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Hm, let me make something clear: there should NOT be ANY original research on Wikipedia. And the main factor defining its content is verifiability, NOT truth. If a verifiable, published source says it's adventure (or action-adventure, or whatever), this is what article should say, too. Anything else is prone to deletion. --Koveras ^☭ 05:37, 8 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

True, and I see your point. However, my point is that even though those sites you've linked to back up my claim in this case, they are error prone in other cases. As such, even their verifiability is in question. Yes, one can link to those sites, but one can link to any number of sources that give wrong info. That said, I concede the point in regards to wikipedia. However, I wasn't simply referring ONLY to wikipedia, but history and analysis of the game industry as a whole, which can indeed exist outside of wikipedia. But the rules are the rules...and don't think I'm being sarcastic. I truly do appreciate the assist. Thanks. Therealspiffyone (talk) 23:07, 8 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Erm, sorry, but when I discuss something on Wikipedia discussion page, I assume that we are talking about the corresponding article. ^^; --Koveras ^☭ 08:28, 9 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Overhaul

I am currently rewriting the article on my sandbox, with the goal to post it into the mainspace when it's done. Feel free to look through it and tell me if there are more things to add. --Koveras ^☭ 12:04, 31 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I am not quite done with the overhaul yet but since it wasn't going anywhere for a couple of months on my own now, I decided to post it to the mainspace and wait for some wikimagic to happen. ^^ Anyhow, right now there are two issues with the article: the story section is enormous and the gameplay section need expansion. The story can be trimmed by moving the character section to a separate article and the gameplay can be expanded by citing the game handbook that comes with the cases... --Koveras ^☭ 10:56, 12 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Character list

I think it's about time to think of a general character list for the games... How about List of characters in The Longest Journey series? --Koveras ^☭ 13:51, 3 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Dead link to TLJ Wiki

Is it just me? The website and all its pages are apparently down or closed. Remove link, perhaps? Whatever happened to it anyway? Spiritaway5177 (talk) 18:25, 18 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I have no idea what happened to it but it's been down for a long time now, so it's imperative that we remove the link... --Koveras ^☭ 20:09, 18 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Dreamfall Chapters Talk page merge

Text and/or other creative content from Talk:Dreamfall Chapters was copied or moved into Talk:Dreamfall: The Longest Journey with [permanent diff this edit]. The former page's history now serves to provide attribution for that content in the latter page, and it must not be deleted as long as the latter page exists.

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Trilogy

It appears someone has misunderstood what Tornquist was saying. From what I understand and if you read what he's said in the blog carefully Dreamfall is consider part 2 of the TLJ trilogy and Dreamfall next now Dreamfall Chapters is part 3/the final part of the trilogy. This duology/trilogy is often compared to Star Wars 4, 5 and 6 if it helps to understand where 5 & 6 are sort of a duology within the trilogy of 4, 5 and 6 Nil Einne 17:46, 21 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

While you were on it, you could've just deleted the whole paragraph altogether: it's misleading, ambiguous and unreferenced. In other words, unencyclopedic. ^^ --Koveras ^☭ 18:14, 21 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Release date

There is no official information on the release date at the moment, however, several sites claim, either erroneously or on purpose, to know it. Listing them here:

GamingTrend: May 1, 2010

Considering that the production of the game has not even started yet, such reports are obviously misleading. --Koveras ^☭ 11:05, 20 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Deletion

Now the Merge Discussion

Uh, can you please point me to a guideline or rule that states that articles on games currently not in production should be deleted even if they have content not included anywhere else? I don't seem to be able to find it... --Koveras ^☭ 14:44, 12 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

(Transfered discussion from my talk page)

I would say WP:FUTURE would stick out the policy supporting the deletion. I would have put on a merge template, but the information on theDreamfall: The Longest Journey page seems adequate at the moment. One must note that StarCraft II: Heart of the Swarm, does not have a page, and that game is definitely under production. Oldag07(talk) 22:41, 13 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

AFAIK HotS is an expansion pack, while DC is a standalone game. The weight category is different. :) My main problem with your reasoning is that I don't think that the current section in the Dreamfall article is adequate, compared to the DC article, at the moment.--Koveras ^☭ 07:33, 14 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I haven't done a whole long of research with video games, however for movie sequels show strong precedence for what i am proposing. The future filmsStar Trek XII and The Dark Knight Rises are good examples of this.

Moreover, the majority of Dreamfall chapters is based off that RT's blog. While I agree that RT's blog is an exception to the rule against blogs, the article's reliance on it make it flirt with Wikipedia:ONESOURCE. BothStar Trek XII and The Dark Knight Rises have far more sources discussing rumors about what will happen in these films. Both films have release dates. However, Dreamfall Chapters isn't even under production. As such, while RT discusses in his blog (which is down) what he would like in the game, what discussed in the blog, and hence the article is speculative at best. Note I just played though Dreamfall for the third time a few days ago. Love the game. I just don't think it should have a page yet.Oldag07 (talk) 00:33, 16 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I can understand your reasoning, but I don't entirely agree with it. Tornquist is the main writers of the series, what he wants to see in them is extremely likely to be put in the final product. Therefore, I am opposed to removing the info taken from his blog. I can follow your argumentation for merging DFC into DF article, but only if it results in no loss of current content. --Koveras ^☭ 10:32, 17 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I could live with that compromise Koveras. Merging all of the content onto the Dreamfall page. I'll give it a few more days before making the official move. Oldag07 (talk) 01:16, 18 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Okay, let's run with it. On another topic, what happens to this talk page when the article is redirected? --Koveras ^☭ 00:11, 19 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

This seems pretty useful. WP:MM

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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Source

You know, you could add these directly to the {{refideas}} at the top of this page. They'll be more visible there. ;-) --Koveras ^☭ 11:21, 22 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]