Talk:Comac C909

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On 24 November 2024, it was proposed that this article be moved to Comac ARJ21. The result of the discussion was not moved.

Five-Year Plans

What is are the "five year plans"? GregInCanada 03:25, 4 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Try Five-year plan, and then Five-Year Plan (USSR). The plans in China are based on that developed by the Soviet Union, so that article should explain the basics. That's really all I know, or else I would try to elaborate, but it should give you a start. - BillCJ 03:39, 4 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

FAA certification

Some key information about FAA certification would be appropriate, being a critical step for the aircraft to be put into international service. GregInCanada 03:25, 4 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

i cant really see a international market for this plane. its a refreshed 45 year old design even with new engines just the limited space of where the engines mount i think it will be a loud aircraft —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.109.127.19 (talk • contribs)

Correct Engine Power Listing?

This article lists the engine thrust as 15332 lb. However, the Aviation Week & Space Technology issue for 29 October, 2007, p. 64 lists the engine thrust as 18500 lb. Somebody should make the effort to find the correct rated power for this engine type. Any help would be appreciated. Raymondwinn 10:59, 16 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Engines

Does anyone know where the engines are being manufactured?72.184.183.175 (talk) 21:52, 4 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

It uses CF34-10A engines which are manufactured in America by GE. 82.34.69.170 (talk) 01:33, 9 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Looks like a 717

717 was the Boeing name for later MD-90s. But this looks to my eyes more 717 than MD090. 130.76.64.93 (talk) 23:57, 1 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Picture of 717 from wiki 717 page.

I'm not certain what your issue is here. The Boeing 717 (former MD-95) and the MD-90 are both based on the same airframe (DC-9/MD-80 series), the 717 being alot shorter. The ARJ21 is uses the MD-90's tooling, but is about the length of the 717, and thus with a similar MTOW. Therefore it uses engines in the class of the 717 rather than the larger ones of the MD-90, and thus naturally looks more like a 717 than an MD-90. Hope that helps. - BillCJ (talk) 20:15, 2 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

1955: Sud Aviation SE 210 Caravelle http://wiki.riteme.site/wiki/Sud_Aviation_Caravelle

1963: Tupolev Tu-134 http://wiki.riteme.site/wiki/Tupolev_Tu-134

Following the introduction of engines mounted on pylons on the rear fuselage by the French Sud Aviation Caravelle, airliner manufacturers around the world rushed to adopt the new layout

1965 : McDonnell Douglas DC-9 http://wiki.riteme.site/wiki/Douglas_DC-9

2008: ACAC ARJ21 Xiangfeng http://wiki.riteme.site/wiki/ACAC_ARJ21 Johannjs (talk) 14:23, 14 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah, you're right - the ARCJ21 does look like the Caravelle. - BillCJ (talk) 17:31, 14 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

This is clearly a carbon-copy of the fuselage of the DC-9 and its stretched versions (MD-80, MD-90, MD-95, Boeing 717). To say that it uses same "tooling" is an euphemism. This plane is just a copy of an old Douglas project with new engines and probably updated avionics. How can a false claim that it is "indigenously developed in China" be on Wikipedia? There is plenty of discussion on reusing the old DC-9 design in specialized forums on the internet. --71.235.206.183 (talk) 17:08, 27 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Some time ago the article stated that it is a DC-9 derivative, which it is, with an upgraded wing, new engines and probably some avionics upgrade. Certainly this article is closely guarded by some Chinese sources (as one can notice when reading the text). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.115.28.54 (talk) 10:35, 31 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Scour the web for images of each from the front. There's some similarities, and then again there's some large differences, for instance the nose forward of the door, the fuselage-wing join, etc. Also the Antonov supercritical wing is completely new. Santamoly (talk) 09:22, 29 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Total Orders

What's with the inconsistent order totals in the table? If you add up the orders, you get 248, which is what it says in subtotal, but under totals, it gives 208 total orders, which isn't even consistent with the reference it cites. Given this, it seems like the total should be 248, plus 20 options, which also seem to have disappeared. Could someone fix that, please? I'm not good with editing tables, so I'd rather have someone who knows how fix it.C628 (talk) 16:26, 21 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Done. MilborneOne (talk) 16:44, 21 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Development

Would it be okay if I put the Comac ARJ21 as developed from the McDonnell Douglas MD-90? --707 (talk) 19:00, 11 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I see no reason not to. Its fuselage is clearly a direct copy. cargocontainer (talk) 06:49, 22 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I do not see this. It is much shorter than the MD-90 and there is no source to back this up.

--2606:A000:121B:C2D3:A951:4781:5A41:7CB5 (talk) 03:35, 26 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The source clearly stated that it is only "partially" built on specs from the old MD80. Therefore it is not a direct development from the MD-80 !! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2606:A000:121B:C2D3:28F8:9F96:D0A1:9BA2 (talk) 03:32, 28 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The ARJ21 is a small jet aircraft that looks very similar to the old MD-80 (which was licensed to be built in China). But COMAC claims that it is an original design, part of which was created by supercomputers in China.^[1]

--2606:A000:121B:C2D3:28F8:9F96:D0A1:9BA2 (talk) 03:38, 28 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Of course Comarc would claim they designed the aircraft from scratch, for national pride if nothing else, but we don't take their claim for an absolute truth, especially not when there are reliable sources contradicting it. - Tom | Thomas.W ^talk 11:10, 28 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Tom, I understand your point. However, the title of the source itself is a question. Which makes the source not that strong. Second, the exact word from the source clearly stated that only partial part of the plane was build from the MD-80. Please read the source. At last, I added the other content back with source.

--2606:A000:121B:C2D3:90DF:3E62:7E0:D75E (talk) 00:09, 29 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

References

^ https://simpleflying.com/a-look-at-chinas-airbus-a220-equivalent-the-comac-arj21/

Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

No consensus to move. Vegaswikian (talk) 00:27, 7 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Comac ARJ21 → COMAC ARJ21 – COMAC should be in all uppercase letters like shown the website here. The company brands COMAC in all uppercase letters --JetBlast (talk) 10:22, 31 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Comment It does seem that COMAC was originally in uppercase but i am unable to find a discussion regarding this. --JetBlast (talk) 10:42, 31 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

See Talk:Comac for main discussion. Powers ^T 15:45, 31 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Geometrical Determination

The phrase "geometrical determination" (as in a service Antonov provided to the development) is, in American English, a non-standard phrase, at least in my many years of exposure to aviation development. It reminds me of reading English translations of Russian texts. The words are proper English but the meaning and intent are often unclear. In this case, it comes across as somebody from Antonov said, "Yes, that's the shape of an airplane" or "Yes, the actual dimensions of the airplane match the numbers on the blueprints." Can we have a better description of what this phrase is trying to communicate? HatCat (talk) 13:32, 24 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

ARJ21 Wing Damage

"...ARJ21's wing became damaged during static testing..."

This statement sounds a bit disingenuous. It makes it sound like there was a mishap (for instance, a dropped tool) that somehow damaged the wing. In fact, the wing failed below specification during an "ultimate load test" designed to prove the strength of the wing. See Aviation Week & Space Technology, 2011/09/12, "Plan For China C919 Airliner Hits A Snag" (online at AW&ST website). — Preceding unsigned comment added by HatCat (talk • contribs) 20:19, 9 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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New orders

Could someone please update the orders ? Redalert2fan (talk) 11:11, 20 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified

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Checked. Redalert2fan (talk) 18:12, 10 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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Source of truth for orders

The article mentions that there's an official CAAC list of orders, would anybody have a pointer? Jpatokal (talk) 03:46, 18 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Comac being a derivative

I have tried to verify the claims of the airplane being a derivative of the MD-90, but the sources used in the article are merely speculative. Given the lack of reliable sources that directly state that it was a copy, and that the sources in the article don't claim that, I've gone ahead and removed it from templates and infoboxes, as this is a clear violation of WP:UNDUE, where the prominence of the assertion isn't matched by the strength of evidence. Does anyone have any actual sourcing for this? At this point, even the citations in the article doesn't even verify, so I'm not sure that keeping the allegations later in the text even meets guidelines Acebulf ^{(talk | contribs)} 06:17, 3 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Rebranding to C909

@Rosbif73. Today, the Comac ARJ21 has been rebranded to the C909 by this source. Is it now time to re-move the ARJ21 page to the C909 page? Hacked (Talk|Contribs) 16:52, 12 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

WP:NAMECHANGES tells us that we should follow the lead taken by reliable sources after the name change. For the time being all we have in the way of RS is the aviation press reporting on the rebranding announcement. It seems highly likely that other sources will start using the new name, but it's probably a bit early to move the article. Rosbif73 (talk) 07:47, 13 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The name was also changed on the Comac website: http://english.comac.cc/products/c909/

I think it is time for the re-move. Tempsb (talk) 12:00, 13 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

That's a primary source, which doesn't count in determining whether reliable sources use the new name or not. What we need is secondary sources reporting on something other than the rebranding announcement. Rosbif73 (talk) 13:07, 13 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for the clarification.

I just looked for it and found this:

https://www.ch-aviation.com/news/146903-hainan-airlines-holding-orders-40-c909s-60-c919s

https://www.aerotime.aero/articles/urumqi-air-to-acquire-40-newly-rebranded-comac-c909-aircraft

https://airguide.info/urumqi-air-to-acquire-40-c909-aircraft-to-boost-regional-fleet/ Tempsb (talk) 15:26, 13 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

That ought to be sufficient. I'll file a technical move request to move it over the existing redirect. Rosbif73 (talk) 10:38, 14 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you! Tempsb (talk) 13:05, 15 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 24 November 2024

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: not moved. (non-admin closure) ~/Bunnypranav:<ping> 04:49, 1 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comac C909 → Comac ARJ21 – The article was previously moved from "Comac ARJ21" to "Comac C909", citing sources that claim Coma "renamed" the aircraft. However, after searching in Chinese sources, I found that the information which claim the aircraft have been renamed is actually incorrected, and what actually happened was an extra commercial name being added onto the aircraft model, and thus it was simply a rebranding attempt that try to attach a new brand name onto the aircraft. Therefore the previous move of the Wikipedia article without the new name being established seems improper and should be reversed.

Sources: [1][zh] [2][zh] [3][en] C933103 (talk) 04:11, 24 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose per WP:NAMECHANGES: there are several sources cited in the preceding talk page section that show the new name being used by reliable sources. Rosbif73 (talk) 17:49, 24 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose. Rosbif73 summed up pretty much what I wanted to say. Regardless of whether it’s an additional name or a total name change, it has seen usage by sources in place of ARJ21. Chinese sources included, by the way: [4]. Comac themselves has apparently also rested upon using C909 in place of ARJ21 as seen at [5] and [6]. Not going to repeat the English sources since there’s enough above. S5A-0043^Talk 05:46, 28 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose. Per above. Sandcat555 (talk) 08:48, 30 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

[1] ttps://simpleflying.com/a-look-at-chinas-airbus-a220-equivalent-the-comac-arj21/

[1]