Talk:Baháʼí Faith

Follow-up on reorganization discussion

Smkolins and Cuñado, I wanted to briefly follow up on a talk page discussion here last year (see here). Both of you had put forward some tentative proposals for reorganizing the page, and I raised some objections at the time and said I'd follow up but never did. At this point I don't have a clear idea of the exact way the page should be organized and I would probably support whatever someone else implements as long as it's clear and neutral. I don't plan on doing any major rework of the page. I could help out here and there if someone else was reorganizing - though I don't know if either of you plans on this now that the FAR is over. Gazelle55 ^{Let's talk!} 02:23, 15 June 2023 (UTC)

Some miscellaneous thoughts on the previous discussion while it's fresh in my mind – in case an editor decides to rework the page at some point. A few books were suggested there that could be used as models for the organization. I think the source by Warburg (2001) looks the most promising since it's about the right length and generally uses simple headings that could be understood by someone with no background on the Baha'i Faith. However, I don't think the current headings are terrible and it might make more sense to make incremental improvements to the organization rather than redoing the whole page in a sandbox. I do like how she has sections for prayer and the nineteen-day fast rather than folding them inconspicuously into "Exhortations". I don't really like "Fundamental beliefs" as a heading (why not just "Beliefs"?) and "Baha'is in the world" strikes me as too vague to be helpful to readers. During the FAR someone commented about how some parts before the "History" section were hard to understand because they referred to various Baha'i leaders who hadn't been introduced yet, so perhaps the history should appear earlier or else some of the descriptions above it should be clarified. I think sections for "Administration" and "Criticism" would also be valuable additions. Gazelle55 ^{Let's talk!} 02:32, 15 June 2023 (UTC)

Thanks for the note Gazelle55. I also saw the archiving of that discussion and lamented the lack of action. I have a great interest in doing the re-org on this page and Baha'u'llah but it would take a long time, maybe 20+ hours per page. It's definitely on my radar and when I get around to it I'll be requesting comment. Cuñado ☼ - Talk 19:26, 15 June 2023 (UTC)

While I have been somewhat active in some research and publishing, I too have interest. Just now - last couple weeks - I've been dealing with a fairly severe case of covid. But thanks for reaching out. So many things to be done! :-) Smkolins (talk) 10:59, 22 June 2023 (UTC)

Using Wikidata items to facilitate generation of references

I have begun to experiment with Wikidata items as an efficient way to include reliable sources in articles I am editing. I am sharing these items as a resource in my user page space here.

One advantage of the use of the Cite Q template is that the same Qnumber can be cited in any language in Wikipedia.

One disadvantage is that you need to add the {{rp|page=17}}</nowiki}} Once a Wikidata bibliographic item has been created and all the properties have been added: author, date, title, DOI, ISBN, etc have been entered, it will generate the complete reference. For example: * You can use the cite Q template with the <nowiki><ref></ref> <ref name="Abdolmohammadi_20240202">{{cite Q|Q124691289}}</ref> You can see the result in the reference section below.

• Or you can use the {{sfn|Abdolmohammadi|2024}}</ref> by manually adding <nowiki>{{cite Q|Q124473137}} to the References. The example will not work in the talk page, only in the main article. The Abdolmohammadi article is newly published.

Anyone can edit and/or create Wikidata items.

Related to the Baha'i Faith

• Paula R. Hartz (1 January 2007). World Religions: Baha'i Faith. Facts on File. ISBN 0-8160-6608-6. Wikidata Q124473137. {{cite Q|Q124473137}}
• William S. Hatcher; J. Douglas Martin (2002). The Baha'i Faith: The Emerging Global Religion. Wilmette: Bahá'í Publishing Trust. p. 253. ISBN 978-0-06-065441-2. OCLC 50124755. Wikidata Q115796499.
• Robert Stockman (1985), Origins 1892-1900, vol. 1, Wilmette: Bahá'í Publishing Trust, p. 277, OCLC 247261709, Wikidata Q124473862
• Robert Stockman (1 January 1995). The Baha'i Faith in America: Early Expansion 1900-1912. Vol. 2. Wilmette: Bahá'í Publishing Trust. p. 400. ISBN 978-0-85398-388-0. Wikidata Q124474264.
• Peter Smith (2022). "The History of the Bábí and Bahá'í Faiths". The World of the Bahá'í Faith. Oxfordshire: 12. Wikidata Q124473374.
• Robert Stockman, ed. (2021), The World of the Bahá'í Faith, Oxfordshire: Routledge, p. 666, doi:10.4324/9780429027772, Wikidata Q124464995
• Baháʼí Faith, Wikidata Q22679

Related to the Báb

• A
• Pejman Abdolmohammadi (2 February 2024). "The Social and Political Thought of Sayyed ʿ⁠Ali Moḥammad Širāzi, the Bāb". Eurasian Studies. 27 (1): 102–126. doi:10.1163/24685623-20230144. ISSN 1722-0750. Wikidata Q124691289.
• Friedrich W. Affolter (January 2005). "The Specter of Ideological Genocide: The Bahá'ís of Iran" (PDF). War Crimes, Genocide, and Crimes Against Humanity. 1 (1): 75–114. ISSN 1551-322X. Wikidata Q124658583.
• Muhammad Afnan; William Hatcher (1985). "Western Islamic Scholarship and Bahá'í Origins". Religions. 15 (1): 29–51. doi:10.1016/0048-721X(85)90058-2. ISSN 2077-1444. Wikidata Q124680903.
• Abbas Amanat (1989), Resurrection and renewal : the making of the Babi movement in Iran, 1844-1850, Ithaca: Cornell University Press, p. 461, OCLC 18256692, Wikidata Q124659024 See also Talk:Q24883743 Abbas Amanat

B

• H. M. Balyuzi (1973), The Bab: The Herald of the Day of Days, Oxford, Wikidata Q124618091{{citation}}: CS1 maint: location missing publisher (link)

H

• William S. Hatcher; J. Douglas Martin (2002). The Baha'i Faith: The Emerging Global Religion. Wilmette: Bahá'í Publishing Trust. p. 253. ISBN 978-0-06-065441-2. OCLC 50124755. Wikidata Q115796499.

L

• Todd Lawson (1987), The Qur'an Commentary of Sayyid 'Alí Muhammad, the Báb, p. 426, Wikidata Q124617904

M

• Abbas Amanat (1981), The Early Years of the Bábí Movement: Background and Development, Wikidata Q124686189
• Moojan Momen (11 February 2011). "WOMEN iv. in the works of the Bab and in the Babi Movement". Encyclopædia Iranica. ISSN 2330-4804. Wikidata Q124568789.
• Moojan Momen (21 September 2018). "Millennialist Narrative and Apocalyptic Violence: The Case of the Babis of Iran". Journal of the British Association for the Study of Religion (JBASR). 20: 1–18. doi:10.18792/JBASR.V20I0.24. ISSN 2516-6379. Wikidata Q124680832.

N

• Nabíl-i-A`zam (1932), The Dawn-Breakers: Nabíl's Narrative of the Early Days of the Baháʼí Revelation, translated by Shoghi Effendi, Wikidata Q2966758

S

• Peter Smith (2022). "The History of the Bábí and Bahá'í Faiths". The World of the Bahá'í Faith. Oxfordshire: 12. Wikidata Q124473374.
• Peter Smith (1987), The Bábí and Baháʼí Religions: From Messianic Shiʻism to a World Religion, Cambridge: Cambridge University Press, p. 243, OCLC 60866681, Wikidata Q124610666

I hope this is helpful. I would like to share this with other Baha'i-related articles and with Baha'i project, Baha'i Faith. Oceanflynn (talk) 03:32, 29 February 2024 (UTC)

References

5-8 million or 8 million?

Completely Random Guy, thanks for contributing. I disagree with the change in numbers in the lead. I built most of the page Baháʼí Faith by country and I've been through all the sources. There is a lot of nuance to the numbers, and the 8 million number came from the Baha'i World Centre, based on "information received from Baháʼí communities across the world, and on reputable external sources". As with any religious movement, there is a wide variation in levels of adherence. If you count those that are actively participating in community life, it's probably 3 million (my guess, based off Warburg's 2001 estimate), if you count those that are self-professing Baha'is, it's probably 5 million, and by the loosest standard (used by World Christian Encyclopedia and others), it's probably 8 million.

The lead has to be very concise, so "5-8 million" seems to capture the spirit of it without having to use qualifiers like "active". Cuñado ☼ - Talk 19:16, 18 April 2024 (UTC)

I agree. WP:Verifiability not WP:Truth. If there is a discrepancy in the sources, it can be fleshed out in the main body of the article. 7&6=thirteen (☎) 09:47, 19 April 2024 (UTC)

Hey there! So I changed the numbers due to the Baháʼí Faith by country Wikipage, where it states that in 1965 there were over a million practicers, in 1991 5 million, and in 2020 8 million. I understand this to be a solid increase over time of practicers of the faith. I thought we were combining 1991 numbers and 2020 numbers to give a rough estimate. I would be okay with putting 5-8 million, not a problem, I just thought the more specific the better.

Completely Random Guy (talk) 02:35, 21 April 2024 (UTC)

"Haifan Baháʼís" listed at Redirects for discussion

The redirect Haifan Baháʼís has been listed at redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the redirect guidelines. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2024 December 10 § Haifan Baháʼís until a consensus is reached. Smkolins (talk) 21:46, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

"Haifan Baháʼí Faith" listed at Redirects for discussion

The redirect Haifan Baháʼí Faith has been listed at redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the redirect guidelines. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2024 December 10 § Haifan Baháʼí Faith until a consensus is reached. Smkolins (talk) 21:47, 10 December 2024 (UTC)