Talk:Andrea Kimi Antonelli

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Requested move 3 September 2024

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: not moved to the proposed title at this time, per the discussion below. Dekimasuよ! 13:05, 13 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Andrea Kimi Antonelli → Kimi Antonelli – WP:COMMONNAME. Unnamelessness (talk) 12:15, 3 September 2024 (UTC) — Relisting. ModernDayTrilobite (talk • contribs) 17:03, 11 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Weak support on the basis of a more concise title.

𝚈𝚘𝚟𝚝 (𝚝𝚊𝚕𝚔𝚟𝚝) 21:13, 3 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

~~His name is Andrea Kimi Antonelli so call him by his name FerrariFan77 (talk) 15:08, 4 September 2024 (UTC)~~ Blocked sock. Dekimasuよ! 00:54, 13 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
- And Fernando Alonso's name is "Fernando Alonso Díaz". But that isnt the article title because article titles are based on WP:COMMONNAME over official name. SSSB (talk) 18:00, 4 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  Andrea is his first name. Kimi is his middle name. Fernando is not relevant to this as taking out the Diaz from his last name means we still using his name. But with Antonelli his first name is Andrea so we should use Andrea Kimi Antonelli FerrariFan77 (talk) 21:10, 4 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  Wikipedia use WP:COMMONNAME, rather than WP:OFFICIALNAME. It doesn't matter what is his first/middle/last name. Unnamelessness (talk) 10:52, 5 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  
  In spanish naming convention, father surname (family name) comes first then the mother surname (last). So Alonso's family name is Alonso no Díaz. Some spanish people have publicly correct press saying "my name is John X, not John Y". Rpo.castro (talk) 10:28, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support, it's clear that this is his preferred name and most sources, including Mercedes, now refer to him as Kimi Antonelli. It's also more concise without introducing any ambiguity. Jestal50 (talk) 16:59, 4 September 2024 (UTC)16:59, 4 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support as WP:COMMONNAME. I had planned to start a RM for this, so wholly support this request. Joseph2302 (talk) 17:58, 4 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Do not support, Andrea is his name and, whilst he is popularly referred to as Kimi, all series he races in have him named clearly as "Andrea Kimi Antonelli" on official media and TV graphics. Stating "commonly known as" in the introduction covers this base, in my opinion. Could become confusing for viewers looking for more information if they cannot find an "Andrea Kimi". Mb2437 (talk) 17:06, 6 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It's unlikely that viewers will be confused as Andrea Kimi Antonelli will redirect to Kimi Antonelli and the first sentence of the article doesn't need to change. SSSB (talk) 17:15, 6 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose. Things might change in F1 but it's ultimately too soon. He's always been referred to as "Andrea Kimi Antonelli" in feeder series, and "Kimi" for short. I've rarely seen the combination "Kimi Antonelli" used until he got announced for F1 ([1], [2]). Most media, both specialised and general-interest, still goes for the full name as his WP:COMMONNAME: [3], [4], [5], [6], [7], [8], [9], [10], [11], [12], [13], [14]. He goes by his full name on social media and is also listed as that on his Mercedes, Prema and F2 profiles. Interestingly, even the F1 website (which now seemingly favours the shorter option) went for his full name as recently as May, which hints at a will to change the trend. Like I said: too soon. MSport1005 (talk) 09:07, 9 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose. And I'd like to bring up some counterexamples of this: Zhou Guanyu and Jak Crawford. Before his F1 signing, he was known as Guanyu Zhou until he clarified he wanted to be known as his two names swapped around, and the F1 media referred to him as such. Antonelli goes by Kimi, but he has "Andrea Kimi Antonelli" on his socials and that's the name on the timing documents. As for Crawford, a fellow F2 driver, his full name is Carlton Jakston Crawford, but only one source states this and his socials are all Jak Crawford. So I believe that if we were to move the page to simply "Kimi Antonelli," first we would have to see if Antonelli himself changes this.DualSkream (talk), 12:17, 9 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Agree with this; with both Crawford and Zhou, their names are clearly given as such on timing documents and TV graphics. Same with Lance Stroll, as opposed to Lance Strulovitch. All article names seemingly follow this convention. This could very well change with Antonelli come next season but, until it does, I believe that should be the defining factor and this matter be tabled at a later date. Mb2437 (talk) 01:11, 10 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Agree, and it is also the argument for switching back to Alexander Albon. Marbe166 (talk) 10:06, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: WikiProject Motorsport and WikiProject Formula One have been notified of this discussion. ModernDayTrilobite (talk • contribs) 17:03, 11 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose WP:COMMON actually is against the move, as Kimi Antonelli is not at all the clearly predominant usage.T v x1 06:27, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose The F1 graphics shows him as Andrea Kimi, and they are prevailing, so until they change, I oppose. --Marbe166 (talk) 10:04, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose I Don't see a clear usuage of Kimi Antonelli over Andrea Kimi Antonelli. Lots of media uses the later or both, official media uses the later. Appart from this there isn't any statement for the driver saying from now on he wants to be called this way, as far I as I am aware, so the article should not be moved.Rpo.castro (talk) 10:35, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Lead changes

The lead had no issues in its previous state. This edit is simply attempting to disparage the subject; replacing his F2 wins with "failed to keep the expectations, with no podiums for 14 races in a row", noting that he "failed to win the Karting World Championship", and that his contract with Mercedes is "only" one year (WP:EDITORIAL). None of these points are notable enough for his biographical summary, which is meant to concisely and impartially discuss his career. These changes were initially made by a WP:SPA. Mb2437 (talk) 19:29, 23 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I agree with Mb here; the karting statement is unsourced and not notable, and lack of performance is a) not notable and b) it would be better to mention his wins, like other articles do. The one year contract statement is fine, but shouldn't be phrased with "only". The first two statements are not neutral, and should be removed since this is a BLP. GalacticVelocity08 (talk) 20:19, 23 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Pinging @Sandcat555 for the reversion; please read the source (in reference to the karting statement). Replying here since it is relevant to the topic.

"Worth noting is the performance of Andrea Kimi Antonelli (KR Motorsport - KR - IAME): the young Italian once again misses the start and really loses many positions, but still shows an excellent speed so as to score the second best lap of the race (50,265)"

It does not mention that he failed to win the championship; that statement is original research. I am not sure why you have reverted the edit as a whole, as you can see my reasoning in my edit summary. I would like to hear your thought process regarding the reversion. GalacticVelocity08 (talk) 20:24, 24 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Even if it was sourced, it is not notable enough to be plastered in the lead in WP:EDITORIAL language as a means of diminishing his achievements, which the WP:SPA who made the initial edit was clearly created to do. Replacing his F2 wins with an opinion of him not keeping up to expectations is utterly ridiculous, and "failing" to win the World Championship is laughable—it doesn't belong in Lewis Hamilton's lead that he twice "failed" to win it, or Ayrton Senna "failing" five times; it is non-notable trivia that should be discussed neutrally in the karting section. Mb2437 (talk) 20:29, 24 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

You make a fine point. My mistake. Sorry Sandcat555 (talk) 03:26, 25 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

No worries! Mb2437 (talk) 16:32, 25 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@GalacticVelocity08 My mistake. Sandcat555 (talk) 03:25, 25 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

All good, no worries. I just wanted to get this done ASAP since it is a BLP. GalacticVelocity08 (talk) 16:05, 25 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Understandable. I didn't catch that the source didn't actually support what was being said in this article. Sandcat555 (talk) 21:55, 25 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]