Talk:2024 Summer Olympics/Archive 2

Archive 1

Archive 2

Multi sports events importance

Why is this article rated "Mid‑importance" for multi sports events ? It's literally the most important multi sport events. It make no sense to say just "mid". Tokyo 2020 article is rated "Top-importance" as it should be here. LA 2028 is "High-importance" while it will only happens in 4 years... Virkin (talk) 12:08, 26 July 2024 (UTC)

Not even sure why the MSE project is tagged here. The MSE project is for all MSEs besides the Olympics. Maybe it shoud be removed? Sportsfan 1234 (talk) 13:40, 26 July 2024 (UTC)

You are correct. I clicked on the MSE link and it clearly states that it does not cover Olympics. It should be removed from all of them. Chris1834 Talk 14:28, 26 July 2024 (UTC)

I've removed it from this talk page, and Talk:2024 Summer Olympics marketing. That should be all for articles linked in the Paris 2024 template. ARandomName123 (talk)^{Ping me!} 16:08, 26 July 2024 (UTC)

Discrepancies

There are discrepancies when it comes to the number of athletes per country in this article and on the map. Barjimoa (talk) 21:41, 26 July 2024 (UTC)

"Paris Olympics" listed at Redirects for discussion

The redirect Paris Olympics has been listed at redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the redirect guidelines. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2024 July 27 § Paris Olympics until a consensus is reached. LilianaUwU ^{(talk / contributions)} 03:16, 27 July 2024 (UTC)

Should it be spelled program or programme?

Obviously France doesn’t speak English. USA, Canada, Australia (I think New Zealand) all spell it program, while U.K and Ireland spell it program. 120.159.86.251 (talk) 21:36, 26 July 2024 (UTC)

The Games website uses programme. HiLo48 (talk) 00:45, 27 July 2024 (UTC)

This article is written in British English, should follow the UK spelling. Vestrian24Bio (TALK) 05:48, 27 July 2024 (UTC)

So programme? HiLo48 (talk) 07:32, 27 July 2024 (UTC)

Yes. Vestrian24Bio (TALK) 07:48, 27 July 2024 (UTC)

Stadium in Infobox

Clearly the Jardins du Trocadéro and the Seine are not stadiums, but they are the venue of the opening ceremony nevertheless. The problem is they aren't stadiums, unless we consider the bleachers/temporary stdaium at the Jardins as a "stadium" for the purpose of the infobox.

There is a precedent though. The Obelisco de Buenos Aires was used as the opening ceremony for the 2018 Summer Youth Olympics. So should we only just list the closing ceremony stadium or adjust the infobox field name accordingly? Hariboneagle927 (talk) 11:54, 27 July 2024 (UTC)

We should adjust it accordingly, because, like you said, those are not stadiums. Gilliebillie🤡 (talk) 12:17, 27 July 2024 (UTC)

Obviously we neeed to adjust our template so that it allows us to list the location of the event, without demanding that it be a stadium. That's a bit of an arrogance on the part of Wikipedia. HiLo48 (talk) 03:03, 29 July 2024 (UTC)

Editing code

Not sure where to put this, but is there some editing code that one can input to automatically add the total such as in Skateboarding at the 2024 Summer Olympics – Men's street. Sportsnut24 (talk) 10:58, 29 July 2024 (UTC)

Olympic Village (Paris)

I just created an article for the Olympic Village (Paris). Any help with expansion would be appreciated! Best, Thriley (talk) 23:22, 27 July 2024 (UTC)

You may post if in DYK to get more views. Just have to meet the minimum requirements.Sportsnut24 (talk) 11:03, 29 July 2024 (UTC)

Chinese doping scandal

Should the scandal not be mentioned in the article? 80.71.142.166 (talk) 20:07, 29 July 2024 (UTC)

Not all scandals needs to be added in this article only the very big ones. Or else this will be a very full article. Gilliebillie🤡 (talk) 20:20, 29 July 2024 (UTC)

WR/ORs at the 2024 Olympics

I noticed we didn't have a page to list out the world records and Olympic records for this Olympics like we did with the previous ones so I have created it at World and Olympic records set at the 2024 Summer Olympics. Please let me know if this page was intentionally not created. Aurangzebra (talk) 21:27, 31 July 2024 (UTC)

Opening Ceremony "Last Supper" "Controversy"

Just because it was misinterpreted by those with a penchant for grievance politics doesn't make it so. And since when did The Last Supper feature a mostly nude blue man? https://www.bfmtv.com/replay-emissions/le-live-bfm/ceremonie-thomas-jolly-et-daphne-burki-sur-bfmtv-28-07_VN-202407280118.html — Preceding unsigned comment added by 157.211.203.48 (talk) 08:31, 29 July 2024 (UTC)

I agree that this needs to be added in the article. A lot of people are mad at the organisers brcause of this. It does not matter that they misinterpreted it. Gilliebillie🤡 (talk) 09:23, 29 July 2024 (UTC)

Yes there was plenty of nonsense. the "Right" is upset as hypocrites about this, and the left is on about sexism (host countyr source) at the games. Silly IMO, but it was still a mainstream news feature.Sportsnut24 (talk) 11:00, 29 July 2024 (UTC)

people having bad media literacy isn't notable. if it were, every article related to media would need a tedious addendum so as to make a certain audience not feel dumb for not getting it

Nandibamco (talk) 12:00, 29 July 2024 (UTC)

it kinda is notable, millions op people thought that that represented the painting, not just a small group. I say that it is definitly notably enough for a mention. Gilliebillie🤡 (talk) 12:57, 29 July 2024 (UTC)

Millions believe the earth is flat: popularity is not the same as accuracy, or -- in this case -- art-literacy.

The organiser has been explicit in saying that the tableau was intended to represent the feast of Dionysus. His comments are conspicuous by their absence from the page: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/paris-olympics-organizers-apologize-last-supper-tableau-religious-conservatives/ and also https://www.theguardian.com/sport/article/2024/jul/29/olympic-last-supper-scene-based-painting-greek-gods-art-experts for a source with a sample painting.

> "Dionysus arrives at the table because he is the Greek God of celebration," adding that the particular sequence was entitled "festivity."

> "The idea was to create a big pagan party in link with the God of Mount Olympus — and you will never find in me, or in my work, any desire of mocking anyone," Jolly said.

> The "interpretation of the Greek God Dionysus makes us aware of the absurdity of violence between human beings," a post on the official social media account of the Olympic Games said by way of explanation.

The tableau could equally said to be a recreation of depictions of the marriage of Bacchus and Ariadne: https://www.mediastorehouse.com/fine-art-finder/artists/william-mayhew-john-1736-1811-attr-to-ince/feast-gods-marriage-bacchus-ariadne-22583458.html

It's fair to note the controversy in the article, but if so noted, it's also necessary to maintain NPOV to note how illiterate (of art) and manufactured it is. 92.236.161.42 (talk) 20:55, 30 July 2024 (UTC)

I also agree that it should be mentioned in this article, it is supported by many reliable sources. It is a big controversy, which is confirmed by the apology to all Christians from the organizers.Jirka.h23 (talk) 08:10, 2 August 2024 (UTC)

Where's pole vaulting?

Where's pole vaulting? 2A00:23C4:95:EA01:110F:D6B7:B4E6:9CB8 (talk) 20:41, 5 August 2024 (UTC)

Pole vaulting is part of Athletics. Chris1834 Talk 21:00, 5 August 2024 (UTC)

Participating National Olympic Committees

Why are both Chinese Taipei and The Gambia/Republic out of alphabetical order? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2605:59C8:50D5:910:21D9:CD9D:6129:D74F (talk) 05:34, 8 August 2024 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 8 August 2024

olmypic = olympic 2603:8000:D300:3650:C896:8524:E457:4714 (talk) 21:03, 8 August 2024 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. CloakedFerret (talk) 21:55, 8 August 2024 (UTC)

Is it an uncontested fact that it wasn't reenacting the last supper?

https://wiki.riteme.site/wiki/2024_Summer_Olympics#Opening_ceremony_2 Wikipedia is stating it as a fact that it wasn't the last supper, but as far as I'm aware it's an open question. Tikaboo (talk) 02:01, 9 August 2024 (UTC)

There are several sources explaining what it was. Unless you can provide a contrary source, our content stays. HiLo48 (talk) 02:35, 9 August 2024 (UTC)

Oh I see that the director said he wasn't inspired by the last supper, I thought there were just apologies. I added his denial. Tikaboo (talk) 06:09, 9 August 2024 (UTC)

Czechia

Doesn't the IOC now use Czechia? If so, shouldn't we? GoodDay (talk) 02:54, 10 August 2024 (UTC)

Yes. The first sentence of Czech Republic at the 2024 Summer Olympics says that, and also tells us that we should change the name of that article too. HiLo48 (talk)

Can someone with an older account add something for me?

In the last paragraph on the first section "The United States topped the medal table both by gold (40) and total medals (126), with China finishing second (40 and 91). Japan finished third with 20 gold medals and sixth in the overall medal count. Australia finished fourth with 18 gold medals and fifth in the overall medal count. Host nation France finished fifth with 16 gold and 64 total medals. Dominica, Saint Lucia, Cape Verde, and Albania won their first-ever Olympic medals, the former two both being gold."

Can someone add the Olympic Refugee Team as also having won their first medal? Thanks! KittyScholar (talk) 17:09, 11 August 2024 (UTC)

Done – IntGrah (talk) 17:33, 11 August 2024 (UTC)

"Paris Olympics" listed at Redirects for discussion

The redirect Paris Olympics has been listed at redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the redirect guidelines. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2024 August 11 § Paris Olympics until a consensus is reached. LilianaUwU ^{(talk / contributions)} 23:57, 11 August 2024 (UTC)

Should “some” or “many” be used in describing Christians condemning the opening ceremony of the Olympics?

I personally believe it should be “many” since it’s quite a widespread controversy, though I’m not the voice of all Christians. LordOfWalruses (talk) 22:05, 3 August 2024 (UTC)

We would need more than one reliable source saying" many" before we should. Don't mistake loudness for number. HiLo48 (talk) 05:27, 4 August 2024 (UTC)

Fair point. LordOfWalruses (talk) 22:02, 4 August 2024 (UTC)

it will get tagged (who?) either way 172.56.179.211 (talk) 15:57, 12 August 2024 (UTC)

When do we change the article to past tense?

I am not sure whether to declare the games finished when the last event (which appears to be the women's basketball tournament final) finishes, the start of the closing ceremony or the end of the ceremony. Thoughts?

I am RedoStone (talk) 14:00, 11 August 2024 (UTC)

I think it should be after the end of the closing ceremony. Vestrian24Bio (TALK) 14:21, 11 August 2024 (UTC)

Concur. The ceremony is part of the event. At the close, the current Olympics becomes the 2026 winter games. Then, the 2024 Olympic games have happened, in the past. 172.56.179.211 (talk) 16:02, 12 August 2024 (UTC)

I think "mostly football" shld be taken out of beginning!?

So the beginning of this seems to be untrue!?Paris didn't only host MOSTLY football,the Beach Volleyball was in the shadows of the Eiffel Tower!Not to mention the Triathlon!Can You Take out Mostly?!I feel It seems Confusing to reader!&Can we add All 16 cities/locations!? I find all ppl wld find interesting especially in respects to travel& Olympics!Thank You! Blessings SandcastleLyndy (talk) 22:43, 12 August 2024 (UTC)

I think you've slightly misread, its saying that 16 other cities hosted events and those cities were mainly for football.The additional venues are listed in the article, see 2024 Summer Olympics#Development and preparations, but would be cumbersome to include in the opening of the article - Basement12 (T.C) 22:57, 12 August 2024 (UTC)

Tiebreaker?

I have just added a "cn" tag to the claim in the lead about the need to use a tiebreaker to resolve a tied medal count. That's not mentioned in either of the two sources immediately after claim. It may be what is done, but we shouldn't be making up claims like this. HiLo48 (talk) 07:34, 13 August 2024 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 13 August 2024

Revert vandalism edit linked below, removing the words "PALING TEROK PUNYE OLIMPIK MAIN KOTOR JILAT TELO"

https://wiki.riteme.site/w/index.php?title=2024_Summer_Olympics&oldid=1240064821 GermaniumSpot (talk) 09:51, 13 August 2024 (UTC)

Already done by Rsjaffe. Vestrian24Bio (TALK) 10:09, 13 August 2024 (UTC)

Question: why does the lead say the US topped both medal counts?

Why would the US tying with China in gold mean they "topped the medal table both by..."? Didn't they tie the gold medal table with China?

I mean, when I go down to this page's Metal Table section and select to organize the table by gold medals, I understand that it still places the United States above China because it seems to use the number of other medals as a way to break ties, instead of just alphabetizing things (see similarly Italy and Germany being equal in gold metals but Italy still being listed above Germany when you select to list by gold medals because they got more medals overall even though they come after Germany alphabetically).

But that's that table and how it functions. Why would we just in general consider the US as having topped the table in gold medals? Because for some reason we must use other medals received as tiebreaker? Can the lead not just say the US and China tied in gold and the US topped in everything else (silver, bronze, total)? Asking aloud. Thanks 2601:644:9281:4427:DDA7:8766:440A:B7DB (talk) 18:52, 11 August 2024 (UTC)

i agree,that makes zero sense since when theres 2 countries or more when the most gold obtained. check the suggestion below i made Fireyneedshelp 301 (talk) 19:51, 11 August 2024 (UTC)

New version is:

The United States topped the medal table with 40 gold medals and 126 medals in total. Tied in terms of gold medals, China finished second, with 40 gold medals and 91 medals overall.

– IntGrah (talk) 20:32, 11 August 2024 (UTC)

no actually, USA team did win overall medal count! However it was China who was leading in Gold Medals up until Yesterday Aug 11th, 2024 when Team USA Tied w China! ( BTW medals as in what they won is spelled medals, metal that you wrote is like what ppl mine for. Does that make sense? I know English language can be difficult for many!! Blessings!) SandcastleLyndy (talk) 22:14, 12 August 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for pointing out the spelling error I made twice, I didn't notice. Born and raised in the US, monolingual English speaker, college educated. I wrote the comment haphazardly (ooo big word there!). However, notice I never said the US didn't win the overall medal count. The point of my comment is that they tied in gold medals. So while you've correctly corrected my spelling, you still seem to have misread what I wrote. Hope this helps! Thanks!! :) :) 2601:644:9281:4427:DDA7:8766:440A:B7DB (talk) 14:58, 13 August 2024 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 14 August 2024

Please change war in Palestine to war in Israel OR Israel's war with Hamas following the atrocities of October 7. Israel is a recognised state,Palestine is not. 2A13:54C2:F000:992C:D49B:7FF:FE86:780B (talk) 06:12, 14 August 2024 (UTC)

Palestine is recognized as a sovereign state by 145 of the 193 member states of the United Nations, or just over 75% of all UN members.. See International recognition of the State of Palestine.HiLo48 (talk) 06:18, 14 August 2024 (UTC)

I've replaced it with the article titles. Tollens (talk) 07:08, 14 August 2024 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 12 August 2024

Mohitssss1 (talk) 15:05, 12 August 2024 (UTC)

yes Mohitssss1 (talk) 13:52, 16 August 2024 (UTC)

Paris Olympics: छह पदक और छह लगभग चूके; पदक तालिका में भारत 71वें स्थान पर रहा Paris Olympics

नीरज चोपड़ा, मनु भाकर, सरबजोत सिंह, स्वप्निल कुसाले, अमन सहरावत और भारतीय हॉकी टीम ने एक रजत और पांच कांस्य सहित छह पदक जीतकर जश्न मनाने का कारण दिया।

पेरिस 2024 को उन छह पदकों के लिए याद किया जाएगा जो भारतीयों के लिए खुशी लेकर आए और साथ ही

छह चौथे स्थान पर रहे जिसके परिणामस्वरूप दिल टूट गया।

पिछले संस्करण में देश को मिले पदक से कम पदक ने भले ही भारतीय खेमे में जश्न को सीमित कर दिया हो,

लेकिन हिट और लगभग मिस का मिश्रित गुलदस्ता भारतीय खेलों की एक आशाजनक तस्वीर पेश करता है।

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Charliehdb (talk) 15:11, 12 August 2024 (UTC)

the bottom texts before host section should be changed

since china and both usa tied with most gold medals,it should be changed from below to new one below the old one

heres the old one: The United States topped the medal table both by gold (40) and total medals (126), with China finishing second (40 and 91). Japan finished third with 20 gold medals and sixth in the overall medal count. Australia finished fourth with 18 gold medals and fifth in the overall medal count. The host nation France finished fifth with 16 gold and 64 total medals. Dominica, Saint Lucia, Cape Verde, and Albania won their first-ever Olympic medals, the former two both being gold, with Botswana and Guatemala also winning their first-ever gold medals. The Refugee Olympic Team also won their first-ever medal.

heres the new one: The United States and China both Topped The medal table by Gold Amount,Marking the First Time Where Olympics Ended with 2 countries or more taking the most gold/Sharing the title with the most gold. However Due to United states Having More total medals,it also tops the medal count,therefore United States Finishing First with 40 Gold and 126 total medals,while china has 40 gold medals and 91 total medal overall takes second, Japan finished third with 20 gold medals and sixth in the overall medal count. Australia finished fourth with 18 gold medals and fifth in the overall medal count. The host nation France finished fifth with 16 gold and 64 total medals. Dominica, Saint Lucia, Cape Verde, and Albania won their first-ever Olympic medals, the former two both being gold, with Botswana and Guatemala also winning their first-ever gold medals. The Refugee Olympic Team also won their first-ever medal. Note:from japan finished 3rd to end will remain unchanged,but the beginning of the final pre host nation section will need to be changed i am requesting the change since i am afraid of getting blocked,and if anything above agrees,maybe you can also do some minor change to finalize before publishing,it may be imperfect Fireyneedshelp 301 (talk) 19:49, 11 August 2024 (UTC)

Reworded lede to mention gold medal tie. However, I don't think it's worth mentioning that this is the first ever gold medal tie for first/second place. – IntGrah (talk) 20:27, 11 August 2024 (UTC)

Ok but confusing as read now. The lede paragraph seems to be discussing one rank but then switches to another. It says China finished second in overall total but then lists Japan as finishing third in gold.

In other words, as a paragraph it reads as listing which country was first, second, third, etc, with a sentence beginning for each rank. But what rank is referenced switches, the first two sentences placing US in front of China per total medal count and each sentence after listing the ranks of gold medal count.

If the paragraph is about gold medal finishing, the first sentence should reference both US and China as tying, with sentences after for third, etc, however many wanted to list. If the paragraph is about total medal finishing, Great Britain should be listed before Japan. 2601:644:9281:4427:DDA7:8766:440A:B7DB (talk) 20:39, 11 August 2024 (UTC)

The ordering is consistent. We mention the total medal count for USA/CHN as evidence that a tiebreaker was used, be it silver medals or total medals. But the ranking is by gold medals the whole way. IntGrah (talk) 20:49, 11 August 2024 (UTC)

@Evibeforpoli you added a bit saying this is the first time in history a tie at the top has occurred. I don't think it's that important, as it disrupts the flow of the paragraph, but more opinions are needed. What say you? – IntGrah (talk) 21:56, 11 August 2024 (UTC)

That's your opinion respectfully. It's obviously needed to be mentioned and saying it disrupts flow is not even a good enough reason to exclude it. If gold medal ties occurred before and is common, then your point may stand. Except it's obviously significant as this never occurred before in history. The only issue that I can think of on people wanting to remove this is because they are too used to seeing USA have more golds than everyone else, and it may be upsetting to them that the first time a gold medal tie occurred in summer Olympic history is this year when it's USA having to share the gold medal tie with China. But the first ever gold medal tie is history worthy for an encyclopedia and has to be acknowledged even if you aren't fond of such an unprecedented occurrence. Evibeforpoli (talk) 06:48, 12 August 2024 (UTC)

Nothing is "obviously" meant to be included. This is an undue focus on USA/CHN rivalry, when the paragraph ought to only summarise the raw medal data, not give a perspective on the general trends in medal ranking. – IntGrah (talk) 11:52, 12 August 2024 (UTC)

There's nothing in that sentence that specifically mentions rivalry. It's just one sentence that is necessary as it's historically significant as it never happened before, highlighting an unprecedented level of competition and parity at the highest level of international sports. Virtually every top media that talks about the gold medal tie, feels the need to tell readers that a gold medal tie has never happened before in the history of the Summer Games. It's not insignificant as you make it out to be.[1] Evibeforpoli (talk) 12:50, 12 August 2024 (UTC)

The vast majority of those sources are American based; their main focus is highlighting the rivalry between the USA and China specifically, rather than simply pointing out that the tie was a first. They also twist facts in the spirit of sensationalising the news. Many news outlets also repeat the same information as others, or share the same wording.

NBC Philadelphia

"The Americans wound up in a tie with China at 40 in the gold medal count — a first for the history of the Summer Games." [2]

Here, the focus is on the tie with China specifically.

NYTimes

"The U.S. and China both leave Paris with 40 gold medals, marking the first time two countries have tied in gold medal total at the Summer Games." [3]

A slightly stretched fact, since it assumes only ties between first and second place.

Newsweek

"Olympic Medal Count Shows China Made History After Battle With Team USA"

"The tie between the U.S. and China marks the first tie at the top of the table in Summer Olympics history. The only previous Olympics gold medal tie occurred in the Winter Games in 1948 between Norway and Sweden." [4]

An incorrect fact: There were ties in the 1924 and 2018 Winter Games.

CNN

"Both countries finished with 40 golds, marking the first ever tie for total golds at the Summer Games – but the US claimed top spot overall with 126 medals to China’s 91."[5]

Focuses on the drama of the medal tiebreak.

I am yet to find a neutral source which states this fact in a way that doesn't destroy the spirit of the games. IntGrah (talk) 15:26, 12 August 2024 (UTC)

You're only viewing it from one perspective. In reality, it's simply an observation of a unique event: the first-ever gold tie at the Summer Games. This historic moment should be seen as a testament to the global advancement in sports, rather than a threat to the spirit of the games. It highlights how the rest of the world is improving and catching up with the traditionally leading country.[6] Evibeforpoli (talk) 08:26, 13 August 2024 (UTC)

@Evibeforpoli China doesn't represent "the rest of the world" though. Also… that's precisely what makes it a non-neutral statement, highlighting how they are "catching up with the leading country". I am viewing it from a global perspective, because we shouldn't indulge in the drama between USA/CHN specifically. There are plenty of other rivalries. We don't mention that "GBR performed particularly poorly, the worst deficit compared to FRA since time X", even though it may be interesting to some, or might possibly highlight some lack of funding in British sports. We would rather present the raw data. Or is it because the tie occurred at the top of the table? To me this adds no value. IntGrah (talk) 09:28, 13 August 2024 (UTC)

I think you're over-fixated on the shift in the USA's dominance. Unless there's a stronger argument against including it, I won't continue this discussion. Historically, the USA consistently won significantly more gold medals than other countries. However, this gap has narrowed not just because of China, but also due to nations like Japan, Australia, and various smaller countries winning more golds from USA. In the context of an article on the Olympics, it's standard to note the top-ranking countries. In this unprecedented case, where there's a tie in gold medals at the top, it's both notable and informative to readers to explain how a silver medal tiebreaker determined the leader.[7] Evibeforpoli (talk) 11:12, 13 August 2024 (UTC)

@Evibeforpoli I apologise if my previous comment was unclear. I support the mention that "China tied the USA" – this is the necessary information to explain that tiebreak.

I oppose the addition that "the tie for gold is the first ever in history … therefore a tiebreak was used … based on silver medals … 44 compared to 27" – this is far too dramatic. The first time a tie occurred in history is not something special on a global scale; what if there was a tie at the 1896 Olympics? It would be fine having it mentioned in a more specific article such as China at the 2024 Summer Olympics, which it already is. IntGrah (talk) 12:58, 13 August 2024 (UTC)

Oppose. The only relevant qualifier, when stating that two teams tied for a lead, is the gold medal count itself. As such, you list it alphabetically, with China and then US. No one is disputing that the US led in the medal table, it's just an obviously better way to write out country names in that context. Hey man im josh (talk) 13:49, 12 August 2024 (UTC)

The last chapter is not neutral. It herads Thomas Jolly's embarassed and cowardly explanation, and does not stress the fact that the unknown painting he pulled out of his sleeve to get out of trouble, this painting itself is a notorious parody of da Vinci's masterpiece! So, Thomas Jolly just continued the parody of the Christ's last supper. He should have honnestly admit it.

NB : I am an atheist architect with a French protestant background, highly educated in Art History at the Ecole des Beaux-Arts in Paris (unlike Jolly who is a self-taught liar on this matter), and a democrat at heart, not a Catholic Trumpist Popist!

D.T. 2A01:CB1C:8288:F00:2D43:2910:A2A0:E2D4 (talk) 22:28, 11 August 2024 (UTC)

China finished second. Silvers are used as a tiebreaker when there is a tie for gold. IOC website lists USA FIRST AND CHINA SECOND. https://olympics.com/en/paris-2024/medals 217.66.157.127 (talk) 07:09, 12 August 2024 (UTC)

Read it again carefully and slowly. Nobody is claiming that China wasn't second overall. The article already states they came second. But in regards to the gold medal total, they are tied with USA. Evibeforpoli (talk) 07:30, 12 August 2024 (UTC)

Oppose: Text should be reverted back, as the changes push an American-centric POV. Hey man im josh (talk) 18:34, 16 August 2024 (UTC)

Specific controversies

Following the precedent set at other Olympic articles, I believe the lead should contain a brief summary of the most notable controversies that occurred prior and during the Paris Olympics.

Example (1996 Summer Olympics):

There was some criticism of the perceived over-commercialization of the Games, with other issues raised by European officials, such as the availability of food and transport.

I propose the following:

At the conclusion of the games, despite some controversies throughout relating to politics, logistics and conditions in the Olympic Village, the Games were considered a success by the press and observers.

All of the mentioned controversies are notable and covered in the article. Pizzigs (talk) 13:35, 14 August 2024 (UTC)

I don't think the sentence is really improved by this mention, especially since the first two items are very non-specific and the last item is fairly non-specific. Easier and simpler to just link to the dedicated article. None of the controversies were really all that major in the 10-year-test, compared to past issues like the violence in 1996/1972, boycotts in the '80s, etc. —Ganesha811 (talk) 12:13, 17 August 2024 (UTC)

Wiki Education assignment: Research Process and Methodology - SU24 - Sect 200 - Thu

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 22 May 2024 and 24 August 2024. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Swagsberyls (article contribs).

— Assignment last updated by FULBERT (talk) 12:57, 18 August 2024 (UTC)

Olympics games 2024 Paris 🇨🇵, Medal count

41.122.0.219 (talk) 08:26, 20 August 2024 (UTC)

Equal treatment to all 5 countries in lead

I noticed in lead, all top 5 countries, except for one, are described with having this much x Gold medals and this much x total medals. Australia, Japan, France, USA all are described that way. The only country that doesn't get described this way is China only. I see one editor went out of their way to reduce the sentence for China only.[8] That same editor has edit summaries attacking others as "pro-china" so safe to say they really don't like China.[9] But you can't target and single out China in the lead as this is inconsistent with our approach to other 4 top countries. Additonally the change is trivial and makes it unnecessarily harder for most people to understand. But I guess that's the purpose of such an edit. Original version [10] makes it easier to understand quickly for many people without having to rack their brains as much. So I reverted it so people can easily understand without mental strain, but more importantly it is back in an equal consistent + neutral manner that doesn't go minimize as much space on China's achievements as possible.[11] A new ip editor reverted it again without explanation, but it's not an improvement but makes it more unequal and more ambigous and unncessarily harder to understand with ease in comparison, so I reverted it again. Evibeforpoli (talk) 00:51, 20 August 2024 (UTC)

Also the original sentence was more ambiguous. It starts off with, “Tied in terms of gold medals’. But tied to who exactly? The sentence wasn’t perfect and could be easily improved. So I reworded it to be less ambiguous with the final sentence being “China tied with the United States in terms of gold medals (40), and finished second on a countback with 91 medals in total. [12]. I find that version to be clear and detailed enough. And additionally doesn't downgrades China as nothing more than as a backdrop to USA instead of being the focus of its own dedicated sentence. But reverting back to the unequal version makes no sense and just shows starkly that we only single out China for minimization which we don’t do for 4 other countries, and why I addressed it. Evibeforpoli (talk) 01:22, 25 August 2024 (UTC)

Officiating controversies

There have been a lot of controversial decisions by referees and judges in these Olympics in several sports, I think this should be mentioned in the Controversies section. -- 2804:29B8:5183:100C:58E5:63D0:C79A:AB91 (talk) 20:59, 6 August 2024 (UTC)

There are a lot of alleged controversial decisions by referees and judges in every Olympics. HiLo48 (talk) 00:59, 7 August 2024 (UTC)

Still, there have been enough instances in this Olympics that I believe it should be mentioned, at least the most notorious ones. 2804:29B8:5183:100C:D023:AA2C:6B1:F0AB (talk) 04:09, 7 August 2024 (UTC)

For example? JacktheBrown (talk) 10:00, 8 August 2024 (UTC)

The controversy over the Floor results in Women's Gymnastics is probably the best example of it. CAS just recently stripped Jordan Chiles of her bronze medal and gave it to Romanian Ana Barbosu. 2804:29B8:5183:100C:AC26:3A2B:52BF:D4FD (talk) 21:14, 10 August 2024 (UTC)

What makes that a controversy? HiLo48 (talk) 00:32, 11 August 2024 (UTC)

This is a causing a lot of controversy actually, and its just the most notorious example of bad officiating in these Games. 2804:29B8:5183:100C:AC26:3A2B:52BF:D4FD (talk) 20:29, 11 August 2024 (UTC)

That is a great example of the judging controversy that I was thinking about. And the controversy hasn't quieted down any since the Olympics endedOhioGirl42986 (talk) 03:48, 26 August 2024 (UTC)

Yes it has. I've seen no mention of it whatsoever in my local media in the past two weeks.HiLo48 (talk) 03:58, 26 August 2024 (UTC)

Medal-winning nations in the lead

There's no convention or consensus to include/non-include specific nations in the lead. This edit's summary misrepresents the facts given that articles up to the 1996 Summer Olympics list only the top medal-winning nation. Furthermore, there's no "gold medal count" that China topped as the gold medals-first version endorsed by the IOC uses silver and then bronze medals to break potential ties. Hence, in this table China finished second and claiming otherwise is disingenuous. Pizzigs (talk) 14:46, 26 August 2024 (UTC)

We have always shown at least the top 3 nations in on all Olympic pages consistently since 2004. The only difference now for this year, is that China tied with USA on golds and seems you like to find an excuse to trim mention of that factoid by reducing the number of top countries to just 1 now. I addressed this in above thread - "Equal treatment to all 5 countries in lead", and you shown to have issues particularly with that one sentence in particular - China tied with USA on golds. [13] And it looks wrong to only limit it at the one Olympics where china tied with usa. But if we decide to remove the top 4 countries after USA for this article to only show the top country and the host, we have to do the same with all the other Olympic articles. Otherwise why the sudden change for only this year compared to the past 5 olympics? People will notice the change and ask why. Evibeforpoli (talk) 16:23, 26 August 2024 (UTC)

@Pizzigs Also in case I am mistaken on you, go explain to me why the sudden change? In 2004, 2008, 2012, 2016, 2020 Olympics. We have consistently added in the top 3 to top 5 five nations in lead. Why is this year suddenly so different in which we need to urgently now limit it to only USA being mentioned as top nation? It's obviously because you don't like to read the part that China came close this time and tied with USA on golds. But going out of your way on changing the MOS consistently done for the past 5 Olympics just so you can remove the sentence that China came second and tied with US on gold, is just disruptive editing WP:OWN, where you are removing info simply because you don't like it, and not because it violates any Wikipedia policies, like verifiability, neutrality and relevance. Evibeforpoli (talk) 16:39, 26 August 2024 (UTC)

The fact that it was so close between these 2 nations makes it noteworthy for sure. USA passed China on the last day. But i think top5 is too much, maybe mention hosts, but some of that paragraph is too specific (like rank by overall medals). Pelmeen10 (talk) 19:26, 26 August 2024 (UTC)

Yes that too; it's also because China and USA were also so exceedingly close to each other this year - that alone is merit enough for at least China to be included for the lead. It wasn't an olympics where US lead by a big margin over second place and makes others irrelevant. But actually got tied at gold medals, and had to then rely on silvers to win overall. Though if not top 5, then we can just do top 3 like we always done with other past olympic articles since 2004. And given the closeness, China should definitely be included either way.Evibeforpoli (talk) 19:50, 26 August 2024 (UTC)

The current revision is worded in such a way that viewers might get an impression that China and the United States tied in the gold medal count, while China finished second in the overall medal count. This is false. The gold medal count uses silver as a tiebreaker when the two nations are tied on golds. Pizzigs (talk) 07:40, 27 August 2024 (UTC)

@Pizzigs

I also agree that China did not top the gold medal count since the gold medal count uses silvers as the tie breaker when nations are tied on gold. 115.188.18.40 (talk) 14:33, 27 August 2024 (UTC)

@Pizzigs First you argue on this thread that only the top country should be mentioned and not second place. Now you return to your original main goal to reduce the sentence that China tied with USA in golds as you don't like that info. But it's true and supported by top sources that they tied with US on gold medals. They came second overall but on strictly on gold medals, they were equal to USA and no sources claim they were beaten by US on golds. Don't contradict the consensus of majority of media on this. Evibeforpoli (talk) 18:12, 27 August 2024 (UTC)

@Pizzigs Yes, the gold medal count does indeed use silvers (and then bronze) to rank countries who have equal number of golds. In other words, the gold medal count uses silvers as the tie breaker, so I agree with the newer wording you have published. 115.188.18.40 (talk) 14:24, 27 August 2024 (UTC)

They did top the gold medal count and that's not even debatable, and supported by many sources where they tied with the US on golds. But they didn't top the overall medal count. There's a difference between gold medal count and overall medal chart. Evibeforpoli (talk) 18:07, 27 August 2024 (UTC)

@Pizzigs Your stated purpose for this thread was that you believed that we should go trim the second place country from lead, because you say they are irrelevant. As well as the third and fourth. Do you still argue for that? Or are you now making a new argument here and abandoning that? if you are still advocating to change the last 5 Olympic pages and how it's consistently done. All of this, just so you can now support a poor reason to trim this year's second ranked country in the lead, and in particular - the notable mention it had tied with the US on golds. Which you demonstrated above that you still claim to be false and want to remove. Then that's an extreme way to go about it. Nonetheless top 3 countries should be mentioned and not be suddenly be different for this year,

And yes, China tied with US on golds. Stop conflating the overall medal tally with gold medals in which there are no official tiebreakers for golds, and both silver and bronzes are irrelevant on gold medal counts. Evibeforpoli (talk) 18:25, 27 August 2024 (UTC)

There is no gold medal count in isolation. You are very mistaken. Whenever there is a tie in the number of golds, the official table uses the silvers as the tiebreaker.

Countries are never placed as equals based on gold, they are always further differentiated by the number of other medals. Gold medal count in isolation is not used anywhere. Just because the sensationalist media has used the term in some places doesn't mean it exists. Find me a table where gold medal count is used in isolation? It just doesn't exist.

There are only two main types of medal tables. 'Gold medal table' and 'total medal table'. Please refer to the olympics medal tables on the official site for both 2020 and 2024 and try to sort by different medal tables. Gold, total medals, alphabetical.. The gold medals table will position countries higher who have more silver, after an equal number of golds. This is a fact you cannot dispute.

...Based on the official 'gold medal table', China did not finish on top. They finished 2nd in the gold medal table, as well as 2nd in the total medals table.

American media only uses total medals table, so when they saw that the top two countries finished on equal number of golds, they started using the term 'tie in gold medal count' because they don't use the Gold Medal Table. Countries who use the gold medal table have clearly stated that US finished on top, that US edged past China in the very last event to finish on top of the table. It is a fact that China did not finish on top of any medal table. They tied for the number of gold medals only, and I don't see a problem with what he has written. He has been very clear. He has stated that China tied in gold and finishing 2nd due to fewer silvers. He has even listed the top 5 countries, which is the right thing to do. There should not be any arguments. The whole paragraph is as clear and accurate as it gets. Jimmkk (talk) 23:01, 27 August 2024 (UTC)

I meant the current version as it stands is fine. Jimmkk (talk) 23:34, 27 August 2024 (UTC)

@Jimmkk I really do not want to go through more of these weird copium conversations where same people argue that United states somehow beat China on gold medal count despite having the same number of golds. The reality is both the United States and China topped the gold medal count after tying at 40 gold medals, however USA came first on overall medals for having more silvers, while China came second overall. And it's self explanatory. Gold medal tally only counts golds and there is no tiebreaker for who wins the most golds. Multiple media outlets report that United States and China tied on golds and never claim that USA beat china on gold medals. [14] But you say you like the current version then good. As long as the basic vital information is included in there, it does not really matter to me much on how others state it. There's only so many ways but OP has been arguing to remove china completely from the lead, which is something I oppose. Evibeforpoli (talk) 23:41, 27 August 2024 (UTC)

Gold medal table and 'who won most no. of golds' are two separate things. Gold medal table is the main olympic medal table that we use.

US topped the gold medal table (which is also referred to as 'the medal table'), but they tied on gold medals with China. They won same number of golds as China.

You are calling topping the (gold) medal table as topping the overall medals. This is the reason for your (earlier) confusion because you are using different terms to those used by the IOC on their website. Jimmkk (talk) 01:08, 28 August 2024 (UTC)

You are referring to overall medal chart where they count not just golds but also the silvers and bronzes. When media specifically says that China top the Summer Games gold medal chart[15] and also became the third country after the US and the former Soviet Union to top the gold medal count at a Summer Olympics away from home soil> [16] It means literally just that. They refer to the tally counting only the gold medals in which both USA and China have topped. Silver and bronzes are completely irrelevant to the gold medal tally. Evibeforpoli (talk) 02:03, 28 August 2024 (UTC)

@Jimmkk And honestly can't tell if you are gaslighting or innocently misunderstanding because of maybe English vocab issues. But I will try to assume good faith and explain to you clearly one final time. When people say that US came first on Summer olympic medal chart. It means they counted the golds but will also consider silver after a gold tie to determine that. But if they specifically refer to gold medal chart or tally, and mention the key words - 'gold medals", they are not talking about overall medal chart but a more specific narrow criteria where they only tally up the gold medals and nothing else.

I am not nefariously pulling your leg on this and encourage you to go and ask the other people on it only if you genuinely don't believe me. And also ask yourself this, why do most if not all media constantly refer to China as topping the gold medal count? Are they all just wrong and lying to you as well? no, it's because it's the reality where people generally understand a special term that only tallies gold medals and in that regard, China as well as USA both topped the gold medal count.[17] I hope that helps.:) Evibeforpoli (talk) 02:21, 28 August 2024 (UTC)

There are always ties in gold medals won. There was a 4-way gold medal tie among Netherlands, France, Germany and Italy in Tokyo Olympics 2020. They all finished on 10 golds each but no one called it a tie. No one said that they all finished 6th equal in the "gold medal count".

They were further differentiated by the number of silvers and bronzes and ranked 6th, 7th, 8th, and 9th. This was their ranking that was mentioned. The olympic medal table also listed them in order, rather than as a tie. Gold medals are not given in isolation, they are always given along with silver medals and bronze medals. If it was only about gold medals and gold medal count in isolation they wouldn't be giving all the other medals.

We are talking about a tie in gold medals, only because it has happened at the top of the table. If it had happened for like the 3rd position, no one would be calling it a tie. Nations would be called and said to have finished 3rd and 4th, based on their medal table ranking.

You are calling it an overall medal table, because you are using terms straight from unreliable media, but it is actually called the gold medal table, as it is sorted by gold medals, instead of total medals. Jimmkk (talk) 03:20, 28 August 2024 (UTC)

omg. It's not "unreliable media". You can't just label any media that doesn't support what you want, to be "unreliable". Especially when it's the overwhelming majority of professional media. I really tried my best to inform you but I clearly failed. That doesn't mean I am going to just let you ruin an article out of ignorance. Unfortunately I am not in the mood to forever discuss with you so I guess I have to go and find some alternative route to deal with you. Evibeforpoli (talk) 03:36, 28 August 2024 (UTC)

Paris 2024

I'm placing the following comment on both the 2024 Summer Olympics and 2024 Summer Paralympics talk pages.

Though this was not entirely novel for the Olympic and Paralympic Games, more than ever before, Paris 2024 was a common 'platform' for both Games.

More specifically, the following list of things were common to both Games:

• The organising committee
• The emblem
• The visual identity (aka Look of the Games)
• The slogan ("Games Wide Open")
• The wayfinding
• The music - eg, for victory ceremonies
• The volunteer programme
• The ticketing platform
• The official shops

This is not an exhaustive list.

While this commonality may seem inevitable or obvious, it was not always like this, and Paris 2024 has provided the most extensive common platform for both Games in their history, a fact which I don't think is fully reflected on the English-language Wikipedia at present.

While I am not for a second suggesting that we merge the 2024 Summer Olympics and 2024 Summer Paralympics articles, by doggedly adhering to the historical precedent of having only separate articles for the Olympics and Paralympics, we miss the opportunity to properly document everything that was common to what was the largest event ever held in France. (Or, alternatively, we end up duplicating it in both articles.)

My proposal therefore is as follows:

• We remove the redirect from Paris 2024 to 2024 Summer Olympics.
• We create a new Paris 2024 article, which complements the 2024 Summer Olympics and 2024 Summer Paralympics articles, to cover all of the common parts of Paris 2024 (including but not limited to the topics listed above).

Kennethmac2000 (talk) 10:16, 9 September 2024 (UTC)