Talk:2023–24 North American winter

TWC Names

Would there be a benefit to naming the winter storms with the TWC names and try structuring this article similarly to a hurricane season article with a naming list? I know that NOAA disapproves of the use of said names but articles for hurricanes in the early 1900s for example have unofficial names as titles. Nicky571 (talk) 22:15, 14 October 2023 (UTC)

is this the same as TWC Winter Storms? I feel it might be better to restructure this to the TWC one with the names? Idboizz (talk) 06:28, 2 December 2023 (UTC)

Winter Storm Archer

Is there gonna be an article on this first Storm of the season? And this one looks to be an impactful Winter Storm. 2601:80:CB00:1260:8101:EFAD:5C:C9E9 (talk) 10:33, 26 October 2023 (UTC)

Late October winter storm

I recently removed the section for the 2023 Late October winter storm. This removal was done on a technicality since the original two editors (2600:387:15:2D14:0:0:0:6 & 108.170.65.170) to add the section are blocked SOCKs and I believe the third editor (47.23.6.178) who was reverting it back is also the same SOCK editor. The ongoing SPI will figure that out. Either way, if someone other than the SOCK feels it is a notable storm system, feel free to re-add it. Until another editor who isn't violating Wikipedia's rules says it is notable, I am keeping it off on due to the addition being from SOCK accounts. Cheers y'all! (P.S. if you re-add it, you can ping me here so I know not to revert it). The Weather Event Writer (Talk Page) 01:10, 26 November 2023 (UTC)

And 47.23.6.178 was just blocked as a SOCK. Currently, the addition of the late October winter storm as a section has no consensus as it was added against Wikipedia rules. My plan still remains the same: An established editor is more than welcome to add the winter storm section back, but I am currently keeping it off as it is soley SOCK accounts adding it. The Weather Event Writer (Talk Page) 01:35, 26 November 2023 (UTC)

Article for ongoing storm

Noting that I'm going to create an article for the ongoing storm in the Eastern US soon. I'll probably naming it the December 2023 nor'easter, which can be so vague only because there have been no other nor'easters this month afaik, but if another occurs then it could be named accordingly (December 16–whatever 2023 nor'easter). If the description of "nor'easter" is decided against than I'm not sure what to call it but whatever - presidentofyes, the super aussa man 18:39, 17 December 2023 (UTC)

I didn't even see that you put it. Please create it. 65.18.49.159 (talk) 18:56, 20 December 2023 (UTC)

Add The Grinch Storm of 2023 in Maine

This is technically part of this winter. It hit Maine 2 days ago and left widespread power outages. 65.18.48.75 (talk) 18:02, 20 December 2023 (UTC)

New draft

Draft:January 10-13, 2024 North American storm complex 152.179.91.86 (talk) 18:01, 15 January 2024 (UTC)

Draft of ongoing storm

I've started a draft over at Draft:January 13–16, 2024 North American winter storm for the current winter storm, given the wide-spread impacts of this one from literally coast to coast, especially the South and the first snowfall for many in the northeast, this one is needed. I'll add to it throughout the day when I can, but more are welcome to add constructive edits. MarioProtIV (^talk/_contribs) 07:06, 16 January 2024 (UTC)

Maine flooding

The flooding in Maine this month has been notable, destroying structures and hobbling the lobstering industry (sources are plentiful at the Portland Press Herald/WCSH/CNN/etc.), but it's not clear whether it was caused by the 8–10 storm, the 10–13 one, the 13–16 one, or a combination, so I'm not sure where to put the information. Mapsax (talk) 01:08, 17 January 2024 (UTC)

Canada ?

There is no information in the article regarding Canada, only on the United States. There should include information on Canada as the cold weather has not stopped by the 49th parallel; it is called the North American winter after all. --Remikipedia (talk) 23:45, 17 January 2024 (UTC)

Naming

Ik someone already said this but there wasnt any helpful replies but should we add names to the storm like change Jan 8-10 to just Finn as thats the name TWC gave it? 2A02:C7E:4C33:BF00:C0FC:AAF0:CF35:5F74 (talk) 18:24, 20 January 2024 (UTC)

Actually we shouldn’t per WP:TWC. In short, every name The Weather Channel (TWC) use for a winter storm is an entirely unofficial name. The U.S. government asked them to stop and they said they would not stop. (Comment struck as I do not have a source immediately for it and was questioned 3 times on it below.) So, Wikipedia has decided to not name the sections in the yearly winter season articles by the TWC name. However, since The Weather Channel is considered a reliable source for information, a note about the name they gave it is mentioned. A good example of this is in the lead of March 2023 North American winter storm:

A winter storm in March 2023 impacted much of the Western, Northern, and Northeastern United States, producing high snowfall totals and widespread damage across the region. The winter storm, unofficially named Winter Storm Sage by The Weather Channel, first progressed across the Western United States as an atmospheric river, and then moved across the northern United States, bringing blizzard conditions and moderate snowfall across the Northern U.S..

Hopefully this explains the process for how Wikipedia manages the TWC names. Cheers! The Weather Event Writer (Talk Page) 18:30, 20 January 2024 (UTC)

@WeatherWriter: Have you got a source that specifically says that the US Government told TWC not to name storms? Jason Rees (talk) 19:03, 20 January 2024 (UTC)

It is referenced at WP:TWC. [1] is the source. I would need to go back through the IEM archived to find the exact statement linked in the article, but NWS directly commented in a statement when they named “Winter Storm Athena” (November 2012 nor'easter). The Wikipedia article for that storm also has a subsection for the “Name”. The Weather Event Writer (Talk Page) 19:13, 20 January 2024 (UTC)

There is also this article from the International Business Times fully about how the TWC winter storm names are questioned by NOAA. More information is seen in the actual Wikipedia article: Winter storm naming in the United States. It isn’t just NOAA. A ton of meteorologists questioned and critized them for naming winter storms. That article has a lot of references and info about it. In this paywalled article by the Washington Post, it is titled: “TV weathercasters criticize unilateral action by The Weather Channel on storm naming”. It is paywalled so I cannot read the article, but there is enough sources about it mentioned in that article as well as WP:TWC. The Weather Event Writer (Talk Page) 19:14, 20 January 2024 (UTC)

@WeatherWriter: Yes a lot of people have criticized the naming scheme, however, a lot of people also support and use the naming scheme especially since Europe names significant winter storms. Regardless, I would like to see a specific source for your statement "the US Government told TWC not to name storms?." The NWS statement provided in WX Brad source only states that the NWS does not use or name winter storms which was a bit of a lie since the NWS WFO in Buffalo, New York unofficially named six systems during the winter of 2012-13.Jason Rees (talk) 19:34, 20 January 2024 (UTC)

Well you are more than welcome to start a new RfC to figure out the problem. I am just going based on the no-consensus (the actual discussion) and silent consensus post-discussion mentioned at WP:TWC. The most recent discussion in February 2021 involved 48 editors and ended officially with “no consensus”. I’ve cause too many problematic discussions in recent times, so I will not be starting the discussion and will just head to the no-consensus/silent consensus decisions. Cheers! The Weather Event Writer (Talk Page) 19:38, 20 January 2024 (UTC)

@WeatherWriter: I am not interested in starting a new discussion or challenging the consensus, however, I do want to see a source for or a retraction of your statement that "the US Government told TWC not to name storms?" since I have done a lot of time researching the history of the various weather event naming schemes Jason Rees (talk) 19:43, 20 January 2024 (UTC)

(EC) @Jason Rees: — I do not know as I was always told that. I have struck that comment as I do not have the source for it off the top of my head & I do not intend to spend half an hour hunting it. The Weather Event Writer (Talk Page) 19:48, 20 January 2024 (UTC)

@WeatherWriter: Thanks for striking that comment and if you ever find a source for your accusation, I would be very interested to see it.Jason Rees (talk) 20:05, 20 January 2024 (UTC)

@WeatherWriter: and @Jason Rees: - it's not really an accusation. Washington Post and other sources back up that when the TWC first started naming, NWS told their people not to use the TWC names. Per that source I just linked - "In an official statement, the NWS Eastern Region headquarters has rejected the Weather Channel's new winter storm naming scheme asking employees not to use the these names in forecasts and statements." That is partly why Wikipedia doesn't use TWC names either, as the company is a commercial entity, and likely wants to drive up ratings. ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 20:18, 20 January 2024 (UTC)

I won’t unstrike as that would be to much complication with the comment, but I’m glad someone else went ahead and did the look for it. I only struck solely because I did not want to search for a source, not that I did not believe it or know about it. So, consider this an “unstrike” (I guess). Also, this message will courtesy ping Jason Rees since the ping above was to JasonRees, not Jason Rees (A mistake I have also made in the past). The Weather Event Writer (Talk Page) 20:21, 20 January 2024 (UTC)

@Hurricanehink and WeatherWriter: The sources provided do not state that the US Government told TWC not to name storms, which is what the accusation was not that the NWS told their people not to use the TWC names.Jason Rees (talk) 20:24, 20 January 2024 (UTC)

Oops sorry about that! Carry on. ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 20:27, 20 January 2024 (UTC)

Feb 3-5 storm in eastern Canada

I suggest editors look into this and the possibility of adding it. The snowfall has been described as historic and record breaking. 168.91.20.148 (talk) 18:21, 6 February 2024 (UTC)

Requested move 7 March 2024

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: page moved. Bensci54 (talk) 17:25, 14 March 2024 (UTC)

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2023–24 US winter → 2023–24 North American winter – Standard naming convention for these yearly winter articles (Seen and wikilinked here: Category:North American winters. This article was moved by Fram, without any prior discussion or consensus. So, let's get a firm consensus here on whether this article should be strictly about the US winter (with of course a duplicate "Canadian winter" article the moment a winter storm impacts Canada) or should it be moved back to the standard Wikipedia naming convention for these articles, which have been made for over the last decade... The Weather Event Writer (Talk Page) 16:51, 7 March 2024 (UTC)

NOTE: 2022–23 North American winter was also moved by Fram to 2022–23 US winter without any discussion or prior consensus. This move was done at the same time as the starting of this discussion (EC-style). The Weather Event Writer (Talk Page) 16:55, 7 March 2024 (UTC)

• Support. Even without taking into account the longstanding consensus, there is at least one section in this article dedicated solely to Canadian impacts from a storm. Dylan620 (he/him • talk • edits) 17:00, 7 March 2024 (UTC)
• Oppose unless this article (and similar other ones) actually are about North America, and not as is now the case about the US (with an extremely minimal reference to Canada thrown in). The article even starts "The 2023–24 North American winter has been one of, if not the warmest winter on record across the contiguous United States"(emphasis mine) and goes on in the same vein. If you want a single article, then make sure that the title matches the contents. But don't equate Northern America with the US. Fram (talk) 17:06, 7 March 2024 (UTC)

  I would ask that you do not move pages where there is an established naming convention without discussion. I also reverted the hasty closure performed by MarioProtIV since there is not a case of WP:SNOW. Noah, AA^Talk 17:17, 7 March 2024 (UTC)

  The naming convention is meaningless if the contents of the pages don't match the title. Fram (talk) 17:22, 7 March 2024 (UTC)

• Support with the caveat the editors of this page try to do a better job of covering major events in Canada (and, I suppose Mexico too). There have been several notable winter events in Canada that should be included here. -- Earl Andrew - talk 17:10, 7 March 2024 (UTC)

Exactly! What Fram brought up sounds more like a "It needs fixed" problem rather than an "upset a silent consensus" debate on a renaming or article restructuring process for a ton of articles and categories. The Weather Event Writer (Talk Page) 17:11, 7 March 2024 (UTC)

Strongly Support per precedent. The issue was already fixed as I moved them back per long-standing consensus and WP:GOODFAITH. MarioProtIV (^talk/_contribs) 17:48, 7 March 2024 (UTC)

What has WP:GOODFAITH to do with this? What's the bearing of it on this move request? Fram (talk) 17:50, 7 March 2024 (UTC)

Strong support per precedent. 🐔 Chicdat  ^{Bawk to me!} 09:57, 8 March 2024 (UTC)

Comment This has also already been moved to the new title. 🐔 Chicdat  ^{Bawk to me!} 09:58, 8 March 2024 (UTC)

• Comment, while don't support the title that this was moved to, and the method it was moved, I must say I do agree that this article is very United States centric. Esolo5002 (talk) 21:03, 8 March 2024 (UTC)
• Support And honestly this should probably be SNOW closed considering how disruptive it is to readers and that there is Canadian information here (not a lot, but then again, there weren’t a ton of storms in Canada this year.) Fram, you should probably discuss issues in the WikiProject before making unilateral changes, seeing as the previous debacle occurred. 71.190.208.91 (talk) 21:07, 8 March 2024 (UTC)
• Support – The current title breaks naming convention, and ignores Canada content. Drdpw (talk) 20:46, 10 March 2024 (UTC)
• Support - The articles for all previous winters in the continent are titled with "North American winter". Also, winter storms do not stop at the border, and some cold weather/snow events this season, like the one in mid-January 2024, impacted both the US and Canada. Crossover1370 (talk | contribs) 18:45, 13 March 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.