Talk:1998 Thurston High School shooting

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The following references may be useful when improving this article in the future:

Gonnerman, Jennifer (November 27, 2023). "What Happens to a School Shooter's Sister". The New Yorker. Archived from the original on November 29, 2023.

On 21 February 2024, it was proposed that this article be moved to Thurston High School shooting. The result of the discussion was not moved.

Atheism

Kip Kinkel's Atheism is notable:"If there was a God, he wouldn't let me feel the way I do" http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/kinkel/kip/writings.html --197.229.133.184 (talk) 22:05, 21 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Attribution

There are cut and paste moves from and to this article that need attribution. All the best: Rich Farmbrough, 04:51, 19 November 2014 (UTC).

Brain damage and possible genetic origin of psychotic symptoms

Kinkel has been found to have real holes in the frontal lobe of his brain during brain scans. http://edition.cnn.com/HEALTH/9911/09/brain.holes/ and http://amarillo.com/stories/110599/usn_holes.shtml

About brain scans, asked the question by the host, Steven Bartlett, what was the worst brain he had ever seen, Dr Daniel Amen revealed in the podcast "The ADHD Doctor: “I’ve Scanned 250,000 Brains” You (Steven Bartlett) Have ADHD!!! Dr Daniel Amen" that the worst brain he had ever seen was that of Kip Kinkel. "it was completely shrivled". @ Minute 57:40 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ycTZ_t-aiuU

Also, according to the latter source, "private investigator [..] Joyce Naffziger [..] said she had found frequent cases of mental illness - including depression and schizophrenia - in Kinkel's extended family". — Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.248.199.27 (talk) 17:53, 6 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

US Supreme Court Appeal

Kinkel is now appealing his case to the Supreme Court https://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-northwest-news/index.ssf/2018/09/thurston_high_shooter_kip_kink.html Could we add this to the article??Bjoh249 (talk) 05:26, 25 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Musical Preferences

Not everyone will intuitively understand or even agree that Kip Kinkel's preference for bands like Marilyn Manson and Nine Inch Nails is relevant to the school shooting. The relevance should be briefly spelled out and qualified, or the information should be removed. If research exists supporting the relevance, it should be alluded to and cited. Any scholarly disagreement or general controversy regarding a possible connection between listening preferences and school shootings or those who commit them should be noted and the sources referenced. Kaedibyrd (talk) 00:43, 26 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 21 February 2024

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: not moved. Consensus that the event has yet not warranted the same exception as VTech, Sandy Hook events have. – robertsky (talk) 13:48, 16 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

1998 Thurston High School shooting → Thurston High School shooting – The year is not needed as the name of the school distinguishes it from other shootings and makes the event unnecessarily harder to find when searching for it. The article was only moved to its current name back in October without a move request by an account called “Corgi Stays”, which has been confirmed to be another sockpuppet account for DisuseKid/Love of Corey, an editor who had done the same thing on other school shootings articles multiple times and is now banned for using, as I previously mentioned, sockpuppet accounts. MountainDew20 (talk) 12:41, 21 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support. Sounds reasonable. 2003 LN 6 17:30, 21 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose: I'm not quite sure the stated logic of the move comports with NOYEAR. Yes, it's a judgement call, as that page says. But right above it is NCWWW, which clearly says the majority of articles should have the year in their titles. I don't really see what distinguishes this article enough that the geographical descriptor would be sufficient.

In fact, NOYEAR even gives the Virginia Tech shooting as an example of an event for which the year is unnecessary due to its status as the deadliest shooting at an educational institution in U.S. history. And while there are a few other school shootings—Columbine, Parkland, Sandy Hook, for instance—well enough remembered and discussed as for their locations to obviate the need for a year in the title, most, regrettably are not, and I would include this one (Compare 1998 Westside Middle School shooting, 2006 West Nickel Mines School shooting and 2015 Umpqua Community College shooting ... I bet you'd forgotten those had ever happened till you saw those links).

Go out on the street and ask people who appear old enough to if they remember the Thurston school shooting. I doubt you'll get more than a puzzled look, outside of the Willamette Valley). It was certainly a big deal at the time because it came at the end of a school year punctuated by other school shootings (and if it is distinguished from other school shootings that had come before, I'd say it's the first one in which the shooter not only entered the building but went to a crowded area and opened fire indiscriminately). Two dead at the school seemed like a lot at the time; regrettably, today it is not.

The fact that the original mover was blocked as a sock later has no bearing on the reasons for this move. Daniel Case (talk) 19:45, 21 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I just find it unnecessary to add the year to an article about a school shooting because the school is the identifying factor to the shooting and, except in the case of another shooting happening at the same school (which to my knowledge, has never happened in any notable cases), there is no need to add the year to the shooting because the school is a specific place, rather than a shooting happening in a supermarket or restaurant or some other location. And I don’t agree with including the year on the articles you have as examples either.

And I felt like it was necessary to mention the DisuseKid situation because school shooting articles did not include the year most of the time, but then DisuseKid/Love of Corey/Corgi Stays (probably other accounts) started to move certain shootings to include the year and nobody ever did anything about it. Almost every school shooting article that includes the year was moved to include the year by him, including two of the three you mentioned, with the outlier being Westside (and also, I had heard of them and remembered them, and even if I hadn’t that does not have anything to do with whether the article should include the year or not.) MountainDew20 (talk) 01:47, 22 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

"Just finding it unnecessary" is at odds with NOYEAR. Or at least to me not a sufficient basis to overcome it. I think you'd be better off initiating a discussion at WT:NCE to create an exception for school shootings, or maybe a rethink of that entire section since you clearly seem to disagree with it, rather than initiating moves page by page. That would be a more aboveboard way to do it, especially given that the moves you object to were made by a sock and master who did it article by article.

I would also point out that even if they were sockpuppet edits, many of these moves were made quite some time ago and have not been questioned until now, implying some degree of community acceptance in the interim ("nobody ever did anything about it"—maybe because they didn't see it as wrong?). After all, we use years on many other event article titles—non-air disasters for instance—where the geographical descriptor may not be likely to recur either. Perhaps, you might think, the whole policy needs to be reconsidered, then. Daniel Case (talk) 04:38, 22 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support Makes no sense to put the year at all but apparently WP:NOYEAR has an issue with it and as an inexperienced ip user i really don't know much about that. I still think the year should be put in some cases but not this one. 96.43.189.203 (talk) 22:42, 22 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose per Daniel Case. – Hilst [talk] 00:28, 1 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose per Daniel Case. WP:NCEVENTS holds that, even if not strictly necessary for disambiguation, we should include years in the titles of event articles except for exceptional cases. Thurston High School shooting already redirects here, so I don't think the current setup will cause issues for navigation. ModernDayTrilobite (talk • contribs) 16:41, 7 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.