Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Women in Red/Archive 78

This is an archive of past discussions about Wikipedia:WikiProject Women in Red. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

Archive 75

Archive 76

Archive 77

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Gerda Hvisterdahl

I recently purchased a book, The Crooning Wind: Three Greenlandic Poets, which contains poems by Gerda Hvisterdahl and two male writers (therefore out of the scope of this project). I'd like to write an article about her, but all of the sources I have found refer back to the book - there's nothing at all about her otherwise. I was wondering if anyone else might know of any sources? I was thinking there might be something on the Danish web that isn't turning up in my search.

(For that matter, any info about Torkilk Mørch and Innunquaq Larsen would be greatly appreciated, so I could knock them out as well.) --Ser Amantio di Nicolao^{Che dicono a Signa?}_{Lo dicono a Signa.} 03:10, 17 April 2020 (UTC)

I should add...I have my suspicions that the book might be a spoof, in which case the above is moot. --Ser Amantio di Nicolao^{Che dicono a Signa?}_{Lo dicono a Signa.} 03:25, 17 April 2020 (UTC)

Looks genuine enough to me. David Slavitt] is a recognized poet and translator. I couldn't find anything in Danish.--Ipigott (talk) 06:45, 17 April 2020 (UTC)

@Ipigott: I'm very familiar with Slavitt's work - I read his translation of Orlando furioso last year and cannot recommend it highly enough. He just strikes me as the sort with an impish enough sense of humor to come up with something like this as a jest. It's hard to say - I did a Google search last night for anything related to Greenlandic poetry in English, and came up empty save for this book, so maybe the sources in English really are that thin on the ground. Thanks for taking a look. --Ser Amantio di Nicolao^{Che dicono a Signa?}_{Lo dicono a Signa.} 13:30, 17 April 2020 (UTC)

Wikidata redlists all now kaput

An admin, JJMC89, has blocked Listeria, the bot which produced redlists (the drama). It follows that WD redlists will not be updated until the admin's rather questionable action is reversed. --Tagishsimon (talk) 01:29, 11 April 2020 (UTC)

Tagishsimon: Thanks for drawing our attention to this and for investigating the background. I can understand how upset you are about this but as far as I can see, Listeria updated all the Wikidata redlists on 10 April, so we should be able to use them ãs they are for the time being. If the problems with the offending images can be sorted out soon, I expect Listeria will be restored. As Magnus Manske is apparently no longer active, is there anyone else who could help out?--Ipigott (talk) 09:54, 11 April 2020 (UTC)

I'm glad to see Fnielsen has apparently been working on the problem. Maybe JJMC89 can now reactivate the bot.--Ipigott (talk) 10:03, 11 April 2020 (UTC)

Just to note that I've now unblocked it. Also see Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard#ListeriaBot_blocked_an_urgent_resolution_is_needed.. Thanks. Mike Peel (talk) 11:07, 11 April 2020 (UTC)

The lists I've made over the years are not bot-dependent, so if this happens again, they can be used while waiting for Listeria to get unblocked. -Yupik (talk) 12:18, 11 April 2020 (UTC)

Update: it's likely that the bot will be blocked again shortly, see the discussion on AN. Thanks. Mike Peel (talk) 16:24, 11 April 2020 (UTC)

There are also two other discussions happening at the Bots Noticeboard and at an RfC about renaming Non-free media files. - Whisperjanes (talk) 19:48, 11 April 2020 (UTC)

Both me and Pi bot are going offline, we'll be back next week. Sorry for any inconvenience this causes. Thanks. Mike Peel (talk) 22:15, 11 April 2020 (UTC)

I'm sure we can find a solution. Even if Listeria cannot come back in the current situation, we can always fork it to not include images or to check non-free status. --MarioGom (talk) 23:32, 11 April 2020 (UTC)

I wrote a quick and dirty script to generate this list: Wikipedia:WikiProject Women in Red/Missing articles by name/Women named Mary. If you need to generate/update a list for upcoming events, and you don't mind the lack of images and some minor issues, ping me. --MarioGom (talk) 17:14, 17 April 2020 (UTC)

Draft:Isabella Fenwick

I would appreciate assistance on this article. Would this woman have standalone notability like Heloise of Abelard and Heloise fame or should they be redirected? I was assisting User:Carinarampelt and this may be a good place to ask. If she is a historic woman on her own right we would want to make sure she gets her own article and not relegate her to a redirect to a man. Would appreciate insights. Hell in a Bucket (talk) 19:35, 17 April 2020 (UTC)

Hell in a Bucket she is definitely notable in her own right. Lots of sources about her, i.e. "isabella fenwick", amanuensis (the professional term for what she did) produces about 200 books and journal articles in a google search and a lot of info at archive.org. I am hip deep in a GA review and writing another article, but if Rosiestep is available, she might be able to help, as writers are her thing. I'll circle back around, but it will probably be a couple of days before I can shake free. SusunW (talk) 23:29, 17 April 2020 (UTC)

Hell in a Bucket, nice article. Indeed, Isabella Fenwick is notable so I've moved the biography into mainspace. Currently, it's an orphan. I created a Wikidata item for her. --Rosiestep (talk) 23:53, 17 April 2020 (UTC)

Princess Likelike at GAC

@KAVEBEAR: and I have upgraded Princess Likelike for the May Asian Pacific American Heritage Month. It has been nominated at GAC, if anyone has time to do a review. Thanks for your consideration. — Maile (talk) 21:39, 9 May 2020 (UTC)

This is already being taken care of. — Maile (talk) 01:38, 10 May 2020 (UTC)

Viral Pass the Brush challenge - Sápmi style

Amongst indigenous peoples, Pass the Brush has gone viral and I thought that you lovely people in WiR, who have worked so hard to write articles about them would like to see the latest Saami video considering it features many of the people you have written about over the years (and more that should have articles of their own ;)). Thank you so much for all of your hard work <3 -Yupik (talk) 11:02, 19 April 2020 (UTC)

Yupik ♥ --Rosiestep (talk) 12:36, 19 April 2020 (UTC)

Draft:L'Antoinette Stines

I stumbled on this draft which looks interesting. I don't think it's been checked for copyvios etc. but seemed worth helping along. FloridaArmy (talk) 18:29, 18 April 2020 (UTC)

Now in mainspace thanks to Tagishsimon. Oronsay (talk) 21:11, 19 April 2020 (UTC)

Gender related topics on Coronavirus

Hi all

I've added two sections for on the main COVID-19 pandemic article related to gender, one on domestic violence and one on gender (just below, which has been renamed sex by another editor)

https://wiki.riteme.site/wiki/2019%E2%80%9320_coronavirus_pandemic#Domestic_violence

I've now been told that these topics are not important enough to have their own sections

https://wiki.riteme.site/wiki/Talk:2019%E2%80%9320_coronavirus_pandemic#New_sections_on_sex_and_domestic_violence

I plan to reply to this tomorrow but if anyone has any thoughts please do respond. I wonder also if there are other topics that should be included in the article related to women and gender which are not covered?

Thanks

John Cummings (talk) 20:37, 16 April 2020 (UTC)

John Cummings, you might be interested in this article too: Gendered impact of the 2019–20 coronavirus pandemic. MarioGom (talk) 22:27, 19 April 2020 (UTC)

adding new page to March list

Apologies. Please help.

Someone read the same New York Times article I did and created a page for Denise Long Rife. The bare minimum. I came along a few minutes later and boosted it significantly to make sure it didn't get removed. Would someone like to put her on the March list of added names? She was the first woman picked for the NBA draft, i.e., category = Sports.

I can't find my way back to the list, hence apologies for asking someone else to do this. Thanks. Tarkiwi25 (talk) 23:03, 17 April 2020 (UTC)

Tarkiwi25, Do you mean this list: Wikipedia:WikiProject_Women_in_Red/Meetup/151? S Philbrick (Talk) 00:00, 18 April 2020 (UTC)

Tarkiwi25: Thanks for the article. As it was created in April, I've added it to #1day1woman which you can always use if your articles do not coincide with one of the current priorities. Please let me know if you need further assistance.--Ipigott (talk) 10:14, 18 April 2020 (UTC)

It should of course be WIR-151 as suggested. I've made the change.--Ipigott (talk) 12:29, 18 April 2020 (UTC)

Thanks, Ipigott (talk). In lockdown I've lost track of days, and apparently months!Tarkiwi25 (talk) 00:19, 19 April 2020 (UTC)

Tarkiwi25 WIR-151 is a year-long project, so it's where to put more sportswomen, should you wish to write more of them up. Oronsay (talk) 00:30, 19 April 2020 (UTC)

Thanks, Oronsay (talk). This was a fluke, but I've made a note, should a similar instance arise. --Tarkiwi25 (talk) 01:22, 20 April 2020 (UTC)

May is Asian Pacific American Heritage Month

@RightCowLeftCoast: posted a notice at DYK that May is Asian Pacific American Heritage Month, and DYK has set aside a special holding area for that. I'm sure there must be a lot of Asian-Pacific women of accomplishment. Seems it might also be a good goal for FAC. Or even an image in that article that shows us more than a bunch of good-looking men wearing nothing but a loin cloth.— Maile (talk) 12:08, 18 March 2020 (UTC)

Maile66: When you say FAC, have you any particular biographies in mind? In any case, we probably first need to go for GA. Maybe your Elsie Hart Wilcox if you are prepared to spend some time on it, although ORES still rates it as C. We could possibly have focused on it in May but it seems to clash with Eastern Europe.--Ipigott (talk) 15:04, 18 March 2020 (UTC)

@Ipigott: I had no specific articles in mind when I mentioned FAC - just tossing the possibility out there. I also was thinking of GA. Right off hand, I don't know what those articles would be. Maybe something like Patsy Mink or March Fong Eu, I'm not familiar with the necessary sourcing on legislators. But if someone wants to nominate any Asian-Pacific women at GA that would fit in the category, I'd pitch in the help with the GAC. Also, if you're suggesting articles I've already written on Hawaii women, Alice Kahokuoluna. I might have exhausted available sourcing on Alice, but I consider her an unsung hero of Hawaii. She did a lot of the same work as Father Damien. — Maile (talk) 15:25, 18 March 2020 (UTC)

This might be something for SusunW to work on over the next few weeks.--Ipigott (talk) 15:30, 18 March 2020 (UTC)

Just briefly looking at them, Mink seems close to GA. Someone would need to do a pre-review of the sourcing and make sure there isn't any unverified information and then nominate it for GA. I will be glad to look at Eu, may be something we can do with her article. I'd also be happy to work with you Maile66 on Kahokuoluna. A quick search of archive.org gives several books with information on her. SusunW (talk) 16:03, 18 March 2020 (UTC)

Thanks. Of the three, Patsy Mink would be my first choice. We owe Title IX to her efforts. — Maile (talk) 16:13, 18 March 2020 (UTC)

@RightCowLeftCoast, Maile66, Ipigott, and SusunW: We live in a different era than ever before, each of us spending a lot more time at home vs. out and about, so if folks would like Women in Red to have two areas of geofocus for May, perhaps we should be open to it. Plus, it's a fond memory that WiR's first ever editathon was on this topic -Asian Pacific American women- in September 2015. BTW, would someone please assure that the info in this section related to article improvement (GA/FA/FAC) is shared with WP:WikiProject Women in Green? Thank you. --Rosiestep (talk) 16:25, 18 March 2020 (UTC)

I don't think we should try to do too much at the same time. The whole concept of focus becomes blurred. If you think the American priority is more important, then we could drop Eastern Europe until later. In any case, there was not much enthusiasm for it when we last covered in it May 2019. Wikipedia is after all an American project and there are probably lots of editors interested in covering women from the American Pacific islands.--Ipigott (talk) 16:45, 18 March 2020 (UTC)

Okay Rosiestep, I'll post on WIG. Speaking of Hawaii, if anyone wants to help with the GA nom on Talk:Mary Dominis/GA1 that'd be great. The nominator is off-wiki right now and I would hate to have to fail it simply because we couldn't clear the comments. Maile66 I'll start working on Mink if that's your preference. By the by, found this article and photo on Kahokuoluna. The photo could be uploaded for our Visible Women campaign. SusunW (talk) 16:51, 18 March 2020 (UTC)

@SusunW: Maybe I can come up with something on the Mary Dominis GA. The nominator is my most frequent co-editor on most Hawaiian articles I write. One way or another, we aren't going to have to fail Dominis. Mink is my preference, and thanks. Double thanks for the clipping on Alice Kahokuoluna. — Maile (talk) 19:47, 18 March 2020 (UTC)

Cool Maile66! I've started working through the refs on Mink. But if you can work on Dominis that'd be great. SusunW (talk) 19:58, 18 March 2020 (UTC)

@SusunW: Mary Dominis might take a day or two, or three, for me to get through the sourcing and see how I can fix it. I'm in and out these days on RL. But I'll work at it, and we'll get it done. — Maile (talk) 21:03, 18 March 2020 (UTC)

Maile66 That's perfectly fine with me. SusunW (talk) 21:11, 18 March 2020 (UTC)

Thanks for the ping. I am working to get Asian Pacific American Heritage Month up to snuff to be on the On This Day section of the main page. After I am finished with that I will be working on Magdalena Leones, one of the few women to ever be awarded the Silver Star Medal; while the awarding is insufficient to pass WP:SOLDIER/MILPERSON it can be argued that there is sufficient reliable sources to say that individual meets WP:GNG.

I will notify WP:WPAA of these efforts. And thanks to everyone for the work being done here.--RightCowLeftCoast (Moo) 02:13, 19 March 2020 (UTC)

WIR Missing Oceana articles

Putting these down Wikipedia:WikiProject Women in Red/The World Contest/Missing articles/Oceania (not all are AAPI) and User:Yupik/Redlinks/Indigenous Women#Oceania (not all from US) for potential article creation. Potentially good ones are Thelma Akana Harrison (first female territorial senator in Hawaii), Mary Kapuahualani Robinson, Edith Kenao Kanakaole, Mary Haʻaheo Atcherley (one of the first if not the first Hawaiian women to run for territorial senate), Eleanor Kekoaohiwaikalani Wright Prendergast (a separate article for the composer of Kaulana Nā Pua), Rebecca Kahalewai Cummins (president of Hui Aloha ʻĀina for Women), Marybeth Yuen Maul (First Asian American female judge in Hawaii (c. 1957)), Corinne K.A. Watanabe (First female to serve as the Attorney General of Hawaii, though for a partial term (1985-1987), Alice Kamokila Campbell (who opposed statehood although her reasonings for it has not stood the test of time). Another good article suggestion is the Queen Liliʻuokalani Trust and Liliʻuokalani Educational Society. Also these articles are awaiting reviews: Mary Pitman Ailau, Miriam Auhea Kekāuluohi Crowningburg, Tamaeva V (not American), Tuarii (not American). I also have a couple that been "cooking" in my sandbox for awhile (not going to link since I dislike linking my sandboxes): Emilie Widemann Macfarlane, Maria Beckley Kahea, and Mary Jane Fayerweather Montano. Likelike can foreseeably be upgraded to GA with some additional work. Also found this book which has a lot of other historical women of Hawaii: Nellist, George Ferguson Mitchell (1929–1938). Women of Hawaii. Honolulu: E.A. Langton-Boyle. OCLC 16328319.{{cite book}}: CS1 maint: date format (link). Would also love to see if we can find any notable Pacific Island American women from Guam, Northern Mariana Islands or American Samoa (there are three Tui Manu'a that come to mind but they lived before Western contact). KAVEBEAR (talk) 05:49, 25 March 2020 (UTC)

@RightCowLeftCoast, Maile66, Ipigott, SusunW, and Rosiestep: KAVEBEAR (talk) 06:01, 25 March 2020 (UTC)

Thanks KAVEBEAR for all these suggestions. When I find time, I'll try to update API Women and any other pertinent redlists. Perhaps we should start a crowd-sourced list on Hawaii.--Ipigott (talk) 06:58, 25 March 2020 (UTC)

@KAVEBEAR: Here's a list of Guamanian women that might be of some use. I haven't the time right now, but I'll try and turn it into redlinks sometime later today. --Ser Amantio di Nicolao^{Che dicono a Signa?}_{Lo dicono a Signa.} 13:51, 25 March 2020 (U

KAVEBEAR, I'd love to do an API and/or Oceania geofocus one month. Maybe suggest it here so we get it on the calendar? --Rosiestep (talk) 14:37, 25 March 2020 (UTC)

@KAVEBEAR: Here's the redlinked list of Guamanian women: Fo’na, Bartola Garrido, Ignacia Bordallo Butler, Gertrude Costenoble Hornbostel, Agueda Iglesias Johnston, Maria Anderson Roberto, Maria Arceo Ulloa, Maria Palomo Ada, Elena Cruz Benavente, Amanda Guzman Shelton, Laura Maud Thompson, Mary Essie Underwood, Concepcion Cruz Barrett, Mariana Leon Guerrero Lujan, Rosa Aguigui Reyes, Cynthia Johnston Torres, Lagrimas Leon Guerrero Untalan, Elizabeth Perez Arriola, Rosa Roberto Carter, Beatrice Flores Emsley, Emilie Green Johnston, Rosa Perez Salas, Cecilia Cruz Bamba, Clotilde Castro Gould, Lucia Fernandez Torres, Candelaria Taitano Rios, Gloria Borja Nelson, Clair Raulerson --Ser Amantio di Nicolao^{Che dicono a Signa?}_{Lo dicono a Signa.} 15:10, 25 March 2020 (UTC)

This looks like a good focus group to target since all except one is a red link. KAVEBEAR (talk) 06:54, 26 March 2020 (UTC)

Also I think the focus should be on women of Chamorro descent. I don't know if a white woman descended from European settlers can count as a Pacific Islander. According to Category:Northern Mariana Islands women, there are currently around 12 women of the Northern Mariana Islands on Wikipedia and not all are native Chamorro. KAVEBEAR (talk) 05:32, 27 March 2020 (UTC)

JA wikidata and WIR

Hi, @Mcampany:, I tried to link wikidata to jawp WiR page, or the same as en:Women in Red, and could somebody check if my edit is not an error please? There are more than one WiR items,

Q43653733, a Wikipedia:wikiproject Women in Red,
1134737334, which I linked jawp article, and

what is the third one Wikipedia:WikiProject Women in Red? --Omotecho (talk) 21:19, 20 April 2020 (UTC)

It looks like you did it right! The 1134737334 item doesn't lead to anything, but the ja page is supposed to link to Q43653733 (the item for articles about women in red). The other item (Q23875215) is for the wikiproject itself. Everything seems linked to the right place to me! Mcampany (talk) 21:25, 20 April 2020 (UTC)

Thank you dear, excuse me mending the thread, I am not quite used to the new talkpage good. --Omotecho (talk) 21:36, 20 April 2020 (UTC)

Emilie Widemann Macfarlane

Template:Did you know nominations/Emilie Widemann Macfarlane is ready for review and should be promoted in May. KAVEBEAR (talk) 09:26, 25 March 2020 (UTC)

This one was taken care of by Eddie891 on March 26. — Maile (talk) 14:43, 6 April 2020 (UTC)

Alaska women

Inasmuch as our native Americans are believed to have come from Asia across the Bering Strait, here are some from the Alaska Women's Hall of Fame: — Maile (talk) 11:18, 25 March 2020 (UTC)

Marlene Johnson (Alaska) - (Tlingit name: Slath Jaa Klaa Lákooti) - Alaska Democratic Party’s Lifetime Achievement Award, the Alaska Federation of Natives Citizen of the Year Award and Outstanding Women of America Award.

Jeanmarie Larson Crumb - Alaskan Athabaskan mother, Scandinavian heritage father. Ran for Lt. Governor office in 1990. President/Executive Director of the Cook Inlet Native Association

Sadie Neakok - Achievement in: education, law, Eskimo rights advocacy

Patsy Mink

Mink is coming along, but it occurred to me that as photographs are hard I should check them sooner rather than later. "Houston we have a problem"...the lead image has no source, i.e. it is not usable unless one can be found, which confirms it is PD. The second image, credited to the U.S. Congress site goes to a different image link and the information 1970–77 does not jive with the LOC info here. The photo with LBJ link is invalid, as it goes to the main library site, not to the image. I'd love to use the territorial senate image from 1958, but am unsure if it is PD. Same with this image of her and Clinton. Is someone who is good with photos @Adam Cuerden, Victuallers, and GreenMeansGo: or anyone else, willing to try to find photos we can use in her article?

I found a photo of her at NARA, I'll post a link once I upload and crop it properly. Gamaliel (talk) 18:39, 20 March 2020 (UTC)

Yay! and thank you so much Gamaliel. I found this one while searching for info, which probably falls into that "published in the U.S. between 1925 and 1978 but without copyright notice" category. It was repeatedly used in 1965 but I can't find that it was ever credited to a photographer or appeared with a © or any other notice of copyright. Can someone else confirm that I am interpreting this correctly? SusunW (talk) 18:48, 20 March 2020 (UTC)

File:Congresswoman Patsy Mink 207-DP-8386B-DSC 0064 (cropped).jpg. There's a few others available if someone else wants to try to find a better quality shot. Gamaliel (talk) 19:00, 20 March 2020 (UTC)

@SusunW: I am so impressed with the improvements in the Patsy Mink article. You are one top-notch editor. I thought I knew a lot about her, but apparently her life and career is a never-ending bounty of goodies. Whenever you think this is ready, I believe we should put this through GAC as a step towards DYK. Maybe we can fast-track it through the GAC, if others help. In the long haul, I see this as a Featured Article. — Maile (talk) 20:30, 22 March 2020 (UTC)

Thanks Maile66, you give me far too much credit. She was indeed one very amazing woman, I just had to read and evaluate what others said about her. I think we can get it there too, but we need help with the photos before it can even be nominated for GA. I posted my analysis of them on the talk page and asked Carl Lindberg for help, but if anyone can assist, I really don't know much about government photos, but I think the only ones we can presently use are the LBJ one and the ones in the last term of office section. SusunW (talk) 22:06, 22 March 2020 (UTC)

I think if the image was taken by a government employee as part of their job duty, it's PD. Please see Hirtle chart (Commons copyright info), Category:PD-USGov license tags, Template:PD-USGov-Congress.— Maile (talk) 22:22, 22 March 2020 (UTC)

Maile66 I get that, but I don't think we know that is who took any of these. Just because they are in the speaker of the house or a presidential archive or the LOC means nothing unless we know who took it and when. The one that was labeled as an official portrait from ca. 1965, is a campaign image from her presidential run. The lead image doesn't originate anywhere that I can positively confirm. I promise they won't make it through GA or FA review if we don't do more work on them. SusunW (talk) 22:35, 22 March 2020 (UTC)

@SusunW: Got it. — Maile (talk) 23:38, 22 March 2020 (UTC)

Photos are really hard. Especially in this time frame. SusunW (talk) 23:51, 22 March 2020 (UTC)

Is this one of use: File:Washington, D.C. Women members of United States Congress, Seated, Senator Maurine Newberger, Oregon, Representative... - NARA - 541939.tif? Peaceray (talk) 01:04, 23 March 2020 (UTC)

Thanks Peaceray That one actually has a real provenance given! We can use it. Now to figure out the year from their service, as clearly they did not all serve from 1950 - 1975. SusunW (talk) 16:03, 23 March 2020 (UTC)

That was pretty easy. Mink was the last to arrive in 1965 and Newberger was the first to go in 1967, so only a 3 year window. SusunW (talk) 16:13, 23 March 2020 (UTC)

GAC review needed

My thanks to SusunW, and all who assisted, for an absolutely wonderful job on bringing Patsy Mink up to standard. She has listed this at Patsy Mink/GA1 for anyone who would like to review it. I feel a little bit out of my depth on this one. But once it passes GA, I would be happy to nominate it at DYK. Thanks. — Maile (talk) 14:49, 6 April 2020 (UTC)

Thanks Maile66, really appreciate the DYK part, as that is the hard part for me. I've reached out to a few seasoned reviewers and hopefully someone will pick it up soon. SusunW (talk) 14:54, 6 April 2020 (UTC)

Universal_Code_of_Conduct: Discussions happening now on Meta

Hi, a friendly update as community consultations on Universal Code of Conduct are going on for non-English language communities. People read/write/speak in Japanese as their 1st/2nd/3rd/-nth language, come join us on either page, in English or in Japanese. Could you kindly spread the word that you are welcome to join as editors/writers/tech people, or fans of wiki_edia projects in Japanese language please?

You might have been pinged already, and it’s an opportunity that you suggest what we need for more inclusive wiki_edia work spaces in year 2030, less harassful and much amicable. To focus the subject, how can we make a set of such rules that will be shared globally? Maybe we could pick from among those sets of Code of Conduct, or Policies and Guidelines each language community has written for global application, but, wait, less than 50% of all Wikipedias has at least single rule of conduct...

Answers in Arabic, Russian or Spanish go to their own pages. Hope consultation like this will be where we tell the community in our own voices. Cheers, --119.82.201.130 (talk) 22:36, 20 April 2020 (UTC)

Plot summary assistance

Hi guys, I've been running related article Being Impossible through the GA process, but we have hit an issue that will take some help to resolve: I made the article before the release and was hoping that I would be able to add a full plot summary (if nobody beat me to it) when the film came out last year. For a variety of reasons, the film's release in different countries got pushed back to this year, so it's not been very lucky. HBO have got the film available on VOD - in the US. Neither the GA reviewer nor myself are both in the US and have a HBO subscription, so if anybody here is in the US with HBO and would be willing to watch an interesting film to give a plot summary, we would be very grateful! Kingsif (talk) 23:34, 20 April 2020 (UTC)

Edna Mosher

Hello all,

I was working on creating Edna Mosher in my sandbox. An IP editor decided to submit the draft to articles of creation [1]. It was unfortunately declined [2] with the main reason being notability. I have done all I can with the sources I have access to. There are two New York Times articles that mention her: Dr Edna Mosher honored and something about a lawsuit. I don't know if the addition of either would change show she is notable, but if someone with a subscription (or access through an institution) could take a look at them to see if they'd help and/or add them into the draft, I'd be greatly appreciative.

Thanks! TelosCricket (talk) 01:48, 20 April 2020 (UTC)

@TelosCricket: She's cited in Science in the American Southwest: A Topical History by George Ernest Webb as a leading scientist - https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=vWJqdB9J6YEC&pg=PA105&dq=Edna+Mosher#v=onepage&q=Edna%20Mosher&f=false - "her appointment to a senior position represented an unusual desgree of recognition for a woman scientist ...". The court case was her versus her sister in the matter of the disposal of their father's estate. The case bounced up as high as the Supreme Court of New Hampshire, but I'm not sure what the outcome was, the SC having pinged it back down to a lower court for further proceedings - https://www.leagle.com/decision/1993590137nh4531515. You can probably hang a notability claim on the Webb book. --Tagishsimon (talk) 03:58, 20 April 2020 (UTC)

"she became the first woman fellow of @EntsocAmerica", says plausible man on twitter - https://twitter.com/lovettbr/status/1167051291023028224 - pointing to a source https://academic.oup.com/ae/article-abstract/33/1/7/2841905?redirectedFrom=fulltext which clearly has more content, but is behind a paywall. (Because that's how we do science :( ) ... I think first female fellow of Entomological Society of America satisfies WP:NACADEMIC criteria 6. --Tagishsimon (talk) 04:03, 20 April 2020 (UTC)

I added some sources and moved it to article space (Edna Mosher), so have at it.ThatMontrealIP (talk) 04:14, 20 April 2020 (UTC)

Good work, ThatMontrealIP; thank you. "Her thesis, considered pioneering at the time, remains one of the seminal works on Lepidotpera" satisfies WP:NACADEMIC criteria 1. TelosCricket, let us know if the article is AfD'd. And good work, TelosCricket; thank you. --Tagishsimon (talk) 04:25, 20 April 2020 (UTC)

Lots of very early background material is available in this Wikisource scan of the 1914-1915 "Woman's Who's Who in America", but it will have to be cited properly. Amusingly, they listed her as a "Supporter of women's suffrage".ThatMontrealIP (talk) 04:33, 20 April 2020 (UTC)

Wow! Thanks everyone! Follow up question: How do I get my sandbox back without breaking anything? (It currently redirects to Edna Mosher.) TelosCricket (talk) 23:49, 20 April 2020 (UTC)

Need to remove the redirect, which I've done. --Tagishsimon (talk) 01:06, 21 April 2020 (UTC)

Thanks Tagishsimon, I should have removed the redirect when I moved the page. And thanks TelosCricket for creating the page! ThatMontrealIP (talk) 14:12, 21 April 2020 (UTC)

Might be that she can be introduced into Lepidoptera#History of study? --Tagishsimon (talk) 05:08, 20 April 2020 (UTC)

Autumn Christian

I am surprised there have been no WiR participants in the AfD discussion. Are we really so much against self-published authors?--Ipigott (talk) 06:30, 7 April 2020 (UTC)

Not sure about the specific discussion, but as for the general point, I hope not. For academia, self-publishing is a no-no, or at least it used to be. But for women writing fiction, it's often been a necessary way around gatekeepers unsympathetic to/prejudiced against women writing about women's issues. And in the current climate for publishing anything in hard copy, self-publishing is the obvious option for those without connections and/or exceptionally good luck. --Tarkiwi25 (talk) 05:07, 22 April 2020 (UTC)

Wikipedia:The 50,000 Destubbing Challenge Focus of the Week

Just to announce that this is running from May 1 to July 26. It's not a full blown contest but there is a planned £20 (c.$25) worth of Amazon vouchers each week for destubbing articles. If anybody wants to contribute and raise something to buy books to contribute to Women in Red feel free to sign up and contribute. There is a different regional focus for each of the 12 weeks, though 4 or 5 are British oriented given that it's a WMUK endeavour. I've kept it open to all topics though with the exception of one week, so somebody could technically win something each week simply by improving women bios. The openness of it also means that nobody has to commit to doing it for all weeks of the 12, and can have a break when they want it or opt out of the focus. All part of the overall aim to improve 5000 women bios by 2030, naturally we're hoping to improve a lot more than that! Thanks.† Encyclopædius 15:13, 22 April 2020 (UTC)

Help with fair use criteria

Hi! I have created Shamama Hasanova. I could not find any free image, so I'm considering the upload of a non-free image. Azwiki and ruwiki use a pretty good image. When I started the upload wizard, I got stuck at the questions about whether there is a commercial interest by the author. The image appears to be an official photography, as the subject held several official positions, and was published by the Azerbaijan State News Agency in a 2008 obituary. I doubt they have a commercial interest here, but I have no idea if that is a valid rationale. Could anyone help? Thank you! --MarioGom (talk) 19:58, 23 April 2020 (UTC)

MarioGom I pretty much use standard lingo on every one I upload "Image being used to improve and enhance identification and recognition of a biographical subject." (obviously, the thought here is that if it improves identification of the subject, it will also improve the visibility of the photographer). SusunW (talk) 20:19, 23 April 2020 (UTC)

SusunW, thanks! I went ahead with that. --MarioGom (talk) 20:32, 23 April 2020 (UTC)

Fanny

Fanny Mendelssohn or Fanny Hensel, that is the question on the talk. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 10:17, 24 April 2020 (UTC)

Gerda Arendt: There have been many arguments in favour of one or the other over the past 13 years, some contradictory, but I would opt for Fanny Hensel, as in the German wiki and in line with recent research. I don't know if there's any clear justification that her birth name was Fanny Zippora Mendelssohn. See [3] (a useful source for further work on the article). Whatever the case, this should perhaps be mentioned somewhere. The change to Hensel should also be made in Wikidata and Commons which have probably led to many of the Fanny Mendelssohns in other language versions. Maybe it would also be useful to add a section to the article on the controversy regarding her name. I see the article has been significantly improved since 8 April. Is it a candidate for GA? Looks as if it is moving in the right direction.--Ipigott (talk) 11:19, 24 April 2020 (UTC)

I am just here to make a request to comment there, having to be here as neutral as possible ;) - because I think it's relevant to this project, seriously. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 13:01, 24 April 2020 (UTC)

Reducing boilerplate for lists

I'm experimenting at {{Women in Red redlist header/sandbox}} to reduce the amount of boilerplate for lists. This sandbox has two new optional parameters, wikidata (yes, no) and description. The result, for a list like ADB would be:

{{Women in Red redlist header|wikidata=yes|description=women listed in the Australian Dictionary of Biography for which Wikipedia lacks a biography article}}

WiR redlist index: Archive 78

Welcome to WikiProject Women in Red (WiR). Our objective is to turn red links into blue ones. Our scope is women's biographies, women's works, and women's issues, broadly construed.

This list of red links covers women listed in the Australian Dictionary of Biography for which Wikipedia lacks a biography article. It is intended to serve as a basis for creating new articles on the English Wikipedia. All new articles must satisfy Wikipedia's notability criteria; red links on this list may or may not qualify.

This list was generated using Wikidata and it will be refreshed roughly daily to remove blue-links - no manual editing is required.

If it was a manual list, it would be {{Women in Red redlist header|wikidata=no|description=women listed in the Australian Dictionary of Biography for which Wikipedia lacks a biography article}}:

WiR redlist index: Archive 78

Welcome to WikiProject Women in Red (WiR). Our objective is to turn red links into blue ones. Our scope is women's biographies, women's works, and women's issues, broadly construed.

This list of red links covers women listed in the Australian Dictionary of Biography for which Wikipedia lacks a biography article. It is intended to serve as a basis for creating new articles on the English Wikipedia. All new articles must satisfy Wikipedia's notability criteria; red links on this list may or may not qualify.

This list needs to be updated manually.

I think this would remove the necessity of some redundant text that is usually placed below the header. What do you think? --MarioGom (talk) 11:37, 24 April 2020 (UTC)

Very good; thank you MarioGom. Improving the headers in the direction you're going has been long long overdue. --Tagishsimon (talk) 12:46, 24 April 2020 (UTC)

@MarioGom and Tagishsimon: indeed an improvement, and indeed, long overdue. Thanks. --Rosiestep (talk) 14:25, 24 April 2020 (UTC)

BTW, whenever you need improvements like this that are "long overdue", feel free to ping me if you need help. I'd be happy to help how I can. Headbomb {t · c · p · b} 14:36, 24 April 2020 (UTC)

"“Where are the women in STEM?” We’ve always been here"

Nice article by Dr. Maryam Zaringhalam of 500 Women Scientists encouraging the creation of more biographies regarding women scientists, plus an invitation for women scientists to join an upcoming session facilitated by Wiki Education Foundation which will provide support while building these articles -- women scientists writing about women scientists. --Rosiestep (talk) 19:56, 24 April 2020 (UTC)

Interesting initiative. They seem to have a timeslot May 11 – June 19 for writing Wikipedia biographies. It will interesting to see how things progress. If you are personally involved, Rosiestep, perhaps you can keep us in the picture.--Ipigott (talk) 06:59, 25 April 2020 (UTC)

Requested name change: Fanny Mendelssohn -> Fanny Hensel

A requested move is being discussed here.--Smerus (talk) 08:49, 25 April 2020 (UTC)

Australian women categories

There's an interesting discussion at Wikipedia:Australian_Wikipedians'_notice_board#Australian_women_categories which led at one point to Category:21st-century women writers no longer having an Australian presence as they had decided to do away with Category:21st-century Australian women writers. Things are moving on but you might find the row interesting: I mentioned it on Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Women but not here for fear of boring people by repeating myself, but then had second thoughts this morning. PamD 08:05, 22 April 2020 (UTC)

And it looks like there's some serious repair needed: compare Category:21st-century Australian writers and Category:21st-century Australian women writers and spot the omissions. What a mess. PamD 08:06, 22 April 2020 (UTC)

And the discussion has exploded into Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/Incidents#Editor_emptying_categories_then_requesting_CfD,_refuses_to_discuss_or_use_WP:CFD. PamD 08:14, 22 April 2020 (UTC)

Just saw this section, so adding the comment I made moments ago in a new section here: There's a conversation occurring here, Wikipedia:Australian Wikipedians' notice board#Australian women categories, which may be of interest to some of you because of the possibility for broad ramifications, e.g. beyond just this one country. --Rosiestep (talk) 17:52, 22 April 2020 (UTC)

I posted a comment regarding the Australian women categories discussion at Women in Green as it may interest members of that community. --Rosiestep (talk) 17:55, 22 April 2020 (UTC)

I would rather not contribute to the Australian noticeboard discussion as tempers there seem to be pretty high at the moment and it looks as if there is now recognition that mistakes may have been made. I would nevertheless point out that over the years we have spent considerable time and effort creating and populating non-diffusing categories for women. Not only do these allow immediate and straightforward appreciation of the role of women in various occupations and spheres of interest but they act as an incentive for other language versions of Wikipedia to create women's biographies on the basis of our categorizations. As for the suggestion that researchers should make better use of Wikidata, while this option is increasingly attractive, I'm not sure that non-initiates are able to formulate appropriate queries. I therefore hope that MurielMary or another administrator will be able to restore and repopulate the deleted Australian categories and that any further discussion on women's categories will be raised elsewhere, maybe even here.--Ipigott (talk) 09:50, 24 April 2020 (UTC)

It seems to have been agreed that the changes should be reverted, but that it's non-trivial because the editor who went on a category-emptying spree also made other edits some of which shouldn't be reverted. There are 1300 or so articles involved, and people are working on it. PamD 10:20, 24 April 2020 (UTC)

Thank you, PamD for alerting WiR to this situation and Rosiestep for your contribution. I also thank Ipigott for your comments and MurielMary for your support. I believe that all the categories have been now restored to the 1532 women's bios affected, no trivial matter. The whole sorry saga can now be put behind us. Oronsay (talk) 18:38, 25 April 2020 (UTC)

Thank you to everyone who was involved in restoring the categories and restoring the categories to the articles. So much work, I'm sure. And in such a stressful time. Again, thank you. --Rosiestep (talk) 19:28, 25 April 2020 (UTC)

Alison Des Forges Award for Extraordinary Activism Recipients

Human Rights Watch has given awards to several Women activists.Need expansion some of them are here.

Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 17:36, 26 April 2020 (UTC)

Taking an image from a pdf that is on Commons?

Hi All, I'm working on a page for Congolese dancer Jolie Ngemi and was looking for an image. There's no image file, but there is a pdf, which has a picture of her in it https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Dance_in_the_Crossroads_2_(programmaboekje).pdf - can I extract the image from the pdf? Would it still sit on Commons? Or is the whole pdf that is usuable and only that? I'm still getting my head around rights and images, so help gratefully received. (Lajmmoore (talk) 20:14, 25 April 2020 (UTC))

@Lajmmoore: The image will have its own rights - the pdf as a document is licensed for commons and if the image was created by the pdf author, it is under that license. However, it may not be - someone else could have taken the photo, at which point they have to license it, and may not allow commons use. (The image is fine as part of the pdf on commons in either case, though, per DEMINIMIS, as a small part of the whole document). Presumably, the pdf will say who took the photo and what its license is somewhere. Kingsif (talk) 23:27, 25 April 2020 (UTC)

Thanks very much @Kingsif: that's a great help! Will do some hunting! (Lajmmoore (talk) 10:02, 27 April 2020 (UTC))

woman of the day/wife in her own right topic ... maybe? Draft:Club Zanzibar

My mistake in not realizing that a page existed for Club Zanzibar, but I got to Dorothy McNeil through a mural honoring her. She's African American. The other two women, Dorothy Lange and Maria Pepe, each have their own page. It seemed wrong for McNeil not to have her own page. But when I submitted the page I drafted for her I got a message back telling me to subsume the material on her into the Club Zanzibar page. One reason I built up material on the Club was to try to preempt criticism about her significance. No offense intended toward the man who directed me toward subsuming my McNeil material into the Club page, but before I do that, I'd like feedback on how people involved in this project feel about it. I also know there's been previous discussion about women deserving pages in their own right rather than having to fit into pre-existing pages associated with their husbands. I will accept a judgment that the case for Dorothy McNeil's significance on her own might be relatively weak, but in principle it still bothers me that only the African American woman on that mural doesn't seem to deserve her own page in Wikipedia. Ta! --Tarkiwi25 (talk) 21:58, 23 April 2020 (UTC)

@Tarkiwi25: I think you have enough contributions to allow you to start articles in article-space, or to move your drafts to article-space. If you avoid Articles for Creation, you avoid the possibility of an AfC person declining your article. For Dorothy McNeil, if I read the tea-leaves correctly, go with your second draft - User:Tarkiwi25/Dorothy McNeil - and promote it yourself when you are happy; get rid of the AfC template. I suggest paragraph 1 needs to concentrate on why *she* is considered notable ... you slide too quickly into talking about why CZ is notable. Specify in P1 that she is is a notable Hoboken cultural figure, recognised by the Hoboken Oral History Project and by the more recent mural. (And having done this, you can & should explain CZ enough for a reader of the DMcN article to understand its significance.) Consider moving new Club Zanzibar content from Draft:Club Zanzibar to Club Zanzibar. Per WP:ANYBIO, Dorothy is notable because she "has made a widely recognized contribution that is part of the enduring historical record in a specific field", namely the cultural life of Hoboken. Others may disagree, and the article may get nominated for deletion; or it may not. We can cross that bridge if if comes. --Tagishsimon (talk) 00:51, 24 April 2020 (UTC)

Excellent advice from Tagishsimon. Of course Dorothy McNeil deserves her own page. @Tarkiwi25: Please let us know when you move the article to mainspace so that we can sort out any further problems that might arise.--Ipigott (talk) 10:08, 24 April 2020 (UTC)

(Initial response: involves new subject page--Koonin)

Ipigott (talk) and Tagishsimon (talk): Thank you so much. I need your help. Again!! I've just created a page for Lisa M. Koonin by searching for her in Wikipedia, finding citations of her publications and the option to red line her. I took the option, but I haven't set up my own reference points for working within Edit Source mode (I get the concept of syntax for setting up references, formatting, etc., but I don't know the specifics yet, so I prefer to work via Edit mode and use the pre-existing buttons for citations). I put in an initial line after taking the option, immediately published that line, and then went into Edit mode to provide enough for demonstration of significance. But in between someone pinged the single line version as insignificant and now it's in draft mode/space (?).

So first, many thanks for acknowledging that I'm ready to move up. But simultaneously an acknowledgment on my part that I'm a bit lost on how to navigate the different options for initiating a page. I get that I haven't figured out how to follow directions previously suggested to me by others, including, I think, Ipigott. I also know from experience that the more experience I have, the easier this will get.

For the moment, could I ask you (i.e., someone from WiR) to be sure that Koonin gets in properly?

I did enough, I think/hope, to secure her significance, but I'm hoping other people will pick up where I left off. This isn't my area of expertise.

Second, I will try to work through your responses to my initial plea for help re Dorothy McNeil (smart thinking about resituating the honors section). But I haven't figured out how to avoid the AfC process; I sorta thought I had these last two times because I started from different points than my previous initial page efforts. I will try to find the Wikipedia internal help page for Main Space to see if that helps me recognize the different categories of space as they pertain to establishing new pages. (Can you tell how I spent my paid working life?)

Thanks again! --Tarkiwi25 (talk) 00:51, 25 April 2020 (UTC)

(Same day, later: about original page--McNeil)

Augend, please, could you join this conversation? I've just looked at the editing history for Draft:Club Zanzibar, which I got to by using a redirect link from my own sandbox created, I think, by the person who refused my attempt to create a page for Dorothy McNeil. (I tried, via a search for drafts, to find my submitted page on McNeil as a draft--as well as the Lisa M. Koonin article I created this morning--but couldn't find either. See above for my confusion about pages/sections within Wikipedia.) So when Tagishsimon (talk) tells me to go to my own draft of what I called the Dorothy McNeil page, I can't find it.

Meanwhile, I've reorganized the McNeil page (https://wiki.riteme.site/wiki/Draft:Club_Zanzibar) as suggested. Do you think the McNeil page is a go now that it's revised? If so, could someone do this for me? I'm still awfully confused about where it's at and what would need to be done to get it out of purgatory.

Also: Looking at the original Club Zanzibar page carefully, I finally see the obvious! The Club Zanzibar associated with Dorothy McNeil was located in Hoboken, operated between 1961 and 1981, and featured a slew of performers different from those listed in the Club Zanzibar my McNeil material is being referred to. That Club Zanzibar was located in Newark, operated largely from 1982 onward, and had a different slate of performers.

So. My apologies for a) not having checked originally for a Club Zanzibar link and b) not having recognized the duplication of club names earlier. (I was so embarrassed that originally I only glanced at the Club Zanzibar page and took it at face value that they were the same.)

Perhaps a disambiguation page is in order. I wouldn't know how to do that.

The redirect of Dorothy McNeil would seem to be mistaken. I don't know how to recover my original nor how to revert and recover the renamed page. (I did try to follow the "discuss" link added above the Club Zanzibar page, but it's a dead end for current purposes.)

Thank you for your help and I look forward to the day when I have some of your knowledge and experience to help newbies of the future. --Tarkiwi25 (talk) 03:09, 25 April 2020 (UTC)

Tarkiwi25: I've created Dorothy Blackwell McNeil from Draft:Club_Zanzibar. It would be useful if you could establish her exact date of birth, or even the year. I have categorized her as living but if this is not the case, we need her date of death. I hope this sorts out your problems. If not, please let me know on my talk page.--Ipigott (talk) 10:24, 27 April 2020 (UTC)

Draft:Swietenia Puspa Lestari

In January, you discussed Swietenia Puspa Lestari, created by Sheila1988, which was deleted with only a single participant in the AfD. The discussion is at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Women in Red/Archive 74 #BBC 100 Women. After the deletion, Ritchie333 kindly restored the article to draft space at Draft:Swietenia Puspa Lestari. A couple of us worked a little on the draft and I submitted it for review. After three months it's been declined simply citing the original AfD. I've raised a complaint with the reviewer at User talk:1292simon #Draft:Swietenia Puspa Lestari.

I decided to check with Sandstein, the deleting admin, before considering a deletion review. He was helpful and asked the AfD commentators for their views. I am thoroughly dissatisfied with their responses at User talk:Sandstein #Swietenia Puspa Lestari, and I'm now considering simply publishing the draft into mainspace instead of going through a deletion review after this length of time.

As you were interested in the original deletion, I'm raising the issue here for advice on which course to take. I'm convinced that the article contains more than enough reliable sources to pass GNG and that the coverage indicates multiple "events" for which she is notable, so that BLP1E doesn't apply. Thanks in advance for any thoughts you may have. --RexxS (talk) 21:13, 28 April 2020 (UTC)

@RexxS: Guidelines for this situation are at Wikipedia:Guide to deletion#Can I recreate an article that was deleted in the past?. The tl;dr is, "yes, if you've addressed the cause of deletion." You absolutely do not need to go through deletion review if you have addressed the deletion issues. If the article name is not salted (meaning that only admins can create an article of that name) I'd recommend you move the draft into article-space yourself. If salted, find an admin to do so for you. AfC is a well-meant project, but should be avoided whenever possible, since it invites the sort of outcome occurring in this instance. The article may, of course, get speedy deleted by the well-meaning but ignorant; or may be taken to AfD again. Deal with those eventualities if they arise. Wikipedia:Deletion policy does not afaics deal with recreation, hence reliance on the guidelines. --Tagishsimon (talk) 22:14, 28 April 2020 (UTC)

Thanks, Tagishsimon but I'm an admin and I'm pretty sure what my options are; I'm just seeking opinions on which one is best. The reason for leaving it in AfC was to experience what a new user would experience in that situation, as I'm looking to see AfC reformed, but that's a different crusade. I'm expecting to deal with objections at AfD either way as a deletion revue wouldn't immunise the article. I think there's an important principle at risk here, but I don't want to find myself climbing the Reichstag naked in defence of it. Thanks for your advice – can I put you down in the "Publish and be damned" column? --RexxS (talk) 22:39, 28 April 2020 (UTC)

I even have that book, somewhere on my shelves. --Tagishsimon (talk) 23:05, 28 April 2020 (UTC)

While this conversation was going on, the article was republished, and has since been further expanded. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 22:58, 28 April 2020 (UTC)

Awesome! Many thanks to Clayoquot and Andy. --RexxS (talk) 23:28, 28 April 2020 (UTC)

A drive to fill image-less pages / meta

Hi, hope you are cosy and smiling. I found a notice that there would be a contest to add images to image-less articles on meta (announced on jawiki, too.) They are calling for lists of articles:

that could be the target for participants to choose from;
participants are expected to be novice, and it is partly an outreach endeavor to have people get how Wikipedia is edited;
Images must be sourced from Commons, esp those donated during drives such as Wiki Loves Love or Wiki Loves Africa;
I am not sure if list poster needs to hold a drive locally, though.

Would you have any list to invest? --Omotecho (talk) 00:12, 29 April 2020 (UTC)

AfD on Wikidata redlist Health professionals

Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Women in Red/Missing articles by occupation/Health professionals is up for speedy deletion on the grounds it should be a redirect to Healthcare. However Healthcare lists only about 450 entries whereas Health professionals lists some 10,000. I therefore think it should be kept for the time being. We could perhaps later create shorter listings by country, etc. (cc Rosiestep, MarioGom)--Ipigott (talk) 06:40, 29 April 2020 (UTC)

Ipigott, it's the same list. It was moved by Rosiestep so I requested deletion of the move redirect for housekeeping. We later excluded nurses, physicians and psychologists since there are specific lists, but we could add them back, see see #Wikidata redlist for healthcare workers. MarioGom (talk) 07:24, 29 April 2020 (UTC)

MarioGom: Thanks for the explanation. I was confused by the numbers after your earlier comments.--Ipigott (talk) 08:41, 29 April 2020 (UTC)

Meta page on Gender Gap

I was annoyed that this page m:Gender gap was terribly outdated and not useful anymore.
So I gave a first hack to it. user:Alacoolwiki has agreed to give it a beauty a bit later, so for now, it is really "content" that needs support. It is likely that some of the content will go in subpages, with read more link, or some info will requires hide/show areas. But right now, in draft mode, it can keep all the info.

In particular, I'd love to see the News section really come to life with regular updates for major info. It would not be the place to mention every single edit-a-thon about gender gap in the world, but typically to announce the launch of a specific drive, the publishing of a report, a significant research, a new gender related affiliate etc. For now... I only put a few announcements to populate the place.

Another area that would need love is the media report. Again, not to report every single media article related to wikimedia gender gap and our awesome work to fix it... but those media articles with big impact. The top media articles. For example... if you consider years 2019-2020... what would be the top 5 most interesting media articles in the English press that would relate to our work ?

Yet another area that would need love is research. Academic research. At a minimum quoting the main academic papers published on the matter. At best, with a short summary of findings.

The Gender Gap does not have a newsletter. Maybe there is not enough info to actually have a meaningfull newsletter. But at least we could have a regularly updated portal on the topic ?

Any feedback welcome. Any page improvement welcome to. Anthere (talk)

Anthere: I'm not at all sure what the purpose of a Meta page on Gender gap should be. At the moment, it does not appear to be very helpful to anyone. It is not viewed anything like as frequently as Gender bias on Wikipedia (which could also be improved). At the very least, I would have thought the Meta page should present a more general view for all languages, perhaps drawing on evolving statistics such as Gender gap in Wikipedia, WDCM biases and WHGI. As for News, perhaps the page could draw on Wikipedia:WikiProject Women in Red/Press, and for research, Wikipedia:WikiProject Women in Red/Research, as well as similar pages in other languages. There is also a page from the Wikimedia Foundation and a seldom viewed Meta page on Women which links to various initiatives. But first of all, I think it would be useful to redefine the purpose of the page. I'm not sure that its original aim: "This is a page to store ideas about gender gap" is the best way of going forward.--Ipigott (talk) 15:34, 28 April 2020 (UTC)

Thank you for answering Ipigott. So first a few comments/reactions

the Gender bias on Wikipedia is an interesting page, but also a very very very biaised one toward the efforts made to fix the gender gap in the English speaking world, and in particular the american/british areas. There is seldom any references to other language efforts, nor to some of the larger initiatives organized in our community. I still think it is a good page, but not really one I would feel really helpful to orient anyone to, when they want to join the community and better understand what is being done at the moment globally, or where they could join.
I completely agree that digging into data and coming up with interesting stats to point to would be awesome. Did you know that the Denelezh tool will stop operating soon ?
Community news is not only about press and research. It is also about all the things that happen around. Such as a grant request being approved about a gender gap project, it is about a new tool, it is about the launch of a new initative, or the approval of a new usergroup etc. We sometimes can find those on WiR talk page, but not all of them. There are currently many venues to do so. The meta page could or could not be the place to host such news, but at least it could be a hub to know where to go to know more ?
Very interesting Press and Research pages. Thanks for sharing those. Now... the meta page could also simply list all equivalent pages hosted in the other languages. I know there is one in French. I suppose there are equivalent in other languages, but I do not know where they are. Perhaps the meta page could host a table with links to all those pages listing media mentions (when they exist)
When it comes to Research page... would not it make sense to have a COMMON page for all languages to list those ?
I sure know what's on the seldom viewed meta page about Women since it is I who put most of the info there (quite a while ago...), and use it recently to put on the gender gap page. What is interesting is that in Esino, there was a collection of meetups regarding Gender Gap and ONE of the conclusions of the large group was precisely to set up such a hub page on meta. After Esino, that page was created and participation called for. And then... nothing happened :) So typical ;)
Good point about the WMF Adressing Wikipedias gender gap page. This said... whilst those are very precious to me, I do not think we should expect from the WMF to host our information hubs.
I value your comment about "redifining the purpose of the page". I think it clearly can not be a page to store ideas. Ideas are discussed and stored on our local pages, here and there; as well as on our discussion channels. It would never work as a discussion page. No way. But I think it can be a neutral place/hub where we collect links that can be useful, tools, research, most impactful media articles, main actual initiatives, calender info. When I ran drive or training sessions as part of Wiki Loves Women or as part of les sans pagEs, there is always a moment where the new participant interested in being active on this gender gap topic, asks me but what is being done elsewhere. And I find myself looking for links, data, directions. And more than once I thought I would love to have one place where I could orient the person. A page that might not be complete, nor fully up to date, but that would provider him or her with enough "leads" to discover things by self. The Gender Gap page seemed to be the natural direction to me. Problem is that a lot of the "collective" language-wide effort around the gender gap has stopped and that page had become completely useless because several years outdated. So I think this is what I see in it. A place where interested people would find leads for where to go if I want to know more about xxx.

What do you think ? Anthere (talk)

Anthere: Thanks for all your interesting reactions. At this point, I think we should wait for comments from other editors. Maybe it would be useful to associate members of the WikiWomen's User Group. As for Denelezh, there is a proposal for combining efforts with WHGI.--Ipigott (talk) 09:25, 29 April 2020 (UTC)

I have been suggested that https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Address_the_gender_gap might be a better place to update. I had completely forgotten about this portal... It is just as outdated as the other page, but might be a better place to start from...

I am aware of the proposal for combining efforts with WHGI since I pushed for it to happen. But there is apparently a recent issue with some changes of wikidata structure that may have griped things. Last I heard... omens were not favorable. The proposal for the combined tool also depend from a project grant. But let's be optimistic that it will get approved. Anthere (talk)

May 2020 at Women in Red

May 2020, Volume 6, Issue 5, Numbers 150, 151, 163, 164, 165, 166

May offerings at Women in Red.

Online events:

New: Healthcare / Women and their animals / Marys and Mays/ Geofocus Central & Eastern Europe
Continuing initiatives: #1day1woman / Sports!
Help us plan future events: Virtual Ideas Cafe

Join the conversation: Women in Red talkpage

Social media: Facebook / Instagram / Pinterest / Twitter

Stay in touch: Join WikiProject Women in Red / Opt-out of notifications

--Rosiestep (talk) 20:58, 29 April 2020 (UTC) via MassMessaging

Rosiestep: An invitation could be sent to Wikimedia CEE, maybe at meta:Talk:Wikimedia Central and Eastern Europe? It would be nice to cross-advertise the initiatives. --MarioGom (talk) 11:39, 30 April 2020 (UTC)

MarioGom, great idea! Please go for it. --Rosiestep (talk) 14:15, 30 April 2020 (UTC)

Women in automotive design

I was just listening to a story on NPR about the history of the Ford Taurus, and one of the reporters mentioned that the car had initially been designed by a woman. A brief internet search revealed her name to be Mimi Vandermolen, and turned up these articles, among others:

We're missing an article on Vandermolen, and likely on at least a couple of other women mentioned in these articles. I don't really have the time to follow up on things right now, but I didn't want to lose/forget the sources, so I'm throwing them up here in case anyone else is interested in pursuing them. --Ser Amantio di Nicolao^{Che dicono a Signa?}_{Lo dicono a Signa.} 15:43, 30 April 2020 (UTC)

Help needed from an editor able to read French Draft:Yvette Duval

There is a draft article waiting at "Articles for Creation" which relies on French-language sources, however there doesn't seem to be a reviewer there who is able to assess it; it's been there for about 2 months now. Is there anyone here who can assist? It's at Draft:Yvette Duval. Thanks in advance! MurielMary (talk) 11:18, 30 April 2020 (UTC)

The Mondrian In memoriam is disproportionately thorough relative to what it needs to be (and is generally a fantastic biographical source), so combined with the Festschrifft, I've accepted it. Headbomb {t · c · p · b} 13:10, 30 April 2020 (UTC)

Many thanks! MurielMary (talk) 21:37, 30 April 2020 (UTC)

Australian Colonial Women

This might be a way for folks to get involved in addressing the gender gap by increasing the availability of scholarly sources: https://history.cass.anu.edu.au/centres/ncb/colonial-women-adb Gamaliel (talk) 18:25, 30 April 2020 (UTC)

Interesting, thanks for sharing here! Oronsay and MargaretRDonald are you aware of this? Something for the Australian WikiProject? MurielMary (talk) 21:40, 30 April 2020 (UTC)

Thanks MurielMary (very helpful) Checked out the page, and contemplating a nomination... MargaretRDonald (talk) 22:32, 30 April 2020 (UTC)

Draft:Victoria Unikel

Gavakyan (talk · contribs) may require assistance. Draft:Victoria Unikel is sourced to IMDB, wich does not meet the need for WP:RS, and all but three words are a copypaste of https://victoriaunikel.com/ , which at this moment has a copyright notice. He thinks the thing should be published post haste. It was originally created by Unikel (talk · contribs) whose user page has been deleted. It too was copypaste of her web page. Cheers, --Deep fried okra User talk:Deepfriedokra 04:21, 30 April 2020 (UTC)

Deleted as copyvio. FloridaArmy (talk) 00:27, 1 May 2020 (UTC)

Help on Draft:Madelaine Sharps Buchanan

Can anyone help with Draft:Madelaine Sharps Buchanan? Not sure if she is notable... Thanks! Calliopejen1 (talk) 00:21, 28 April 2020 (UTC)

I think she's definitely notable (name is Madeleine as far as I can find). There are tons and tons and tons of reviews of her work on newspapers.com and a lot of serialized stories. Biographical details are hard to come by, but she was born between 1886 (per her marriage license[4]) and 1890 (per the 1910 census[5]) (you may have to sign up for a free account to view those). Per wedding announcement husband was Joseph T. Buchanan and her father was William E. Sharps[6] and per dad's obituary, her mother was Carolyn Twining[7] She taught writing[8] and died in 1940.[9] None of these biographical details really indicates notability, those rely on the reviews of her work. SusunW (talk) 07:28, 28 April 2020 (UTC)

User:Calliopejen1, thoughts? FloridaArmy (talk) 00:49, 1 May 2020 (UTC)

Sounds like it should be accepted! Calliopejen1 (talk) 03:07, 1 May 2020 (UTC)

error when trying to add an entry

I'm getting some sort of database error when trying to add an entry to the top of the April list in 1 woman 1 day, is anyone else having trouble? —valereee (talk) 15:15, 30 April 2020 (UTC)

@Valereee: Seems to be OK for me. I've added the flag. Thanks for creating three more biographies of women in April.--Ipigott (talk) 07:16, 1 May 2020 (UTC)

Huh, must just have been a glitch on my end, thanks! —valereee (talk) 09:33, 1 May 2020 (UTC)

nerdy thoughts on daily page views

The article Feed sack dress, which was created March 20 and WiR tweeted on March 22, saw a nice bump in page views on the 22nd. It's scheduled to appear at DYK in a couple days, so I was giving it a final look-see and noticed another quite large bump around April 12-14, when nearly a thousand people took a gander. Clearly something happened but for the life of me I can't figure out what. There were zero edits those days, so it must have been mostly people without accounts, which likely means they got to it from a mention somewhere completely unrelated to wikipedia (which I find particularly intriguing). Like maybe some fashion influencer who saw the tweet and a few weeks later got around to writing a blog post or article? I googled 'feed sack dress' and limited the search returns to just those few days, but there didn't seem to be anything promising. Anyone have any insight? It's not important, of course, but this kind of thing appeals to my inner nerd. All right, fine, and my outer nerd. I'm just pretty much all nerd. —valereee (talk) 10:20, 1 May 2020 (UTC)

Yes, it will be a blog or even press or something that's mentioned it; often these then get picked up by other social media or whatever. Sometimes a search around the time will give some insight - later on it becomes more difficult. It's especially likely to happen with quirky topics. Many WP articles have inexplicable one-off spikes - I saw a great one yesterday, but can't for the moment remember where. This is a less spectacular one. Great article btw. Johnbod (talk) 14:34, 1 May 2020 (UTC)

Draft: Sherry Towers

I started this draft about Sherry Towers, a physicist and statistician credited with showing that mass shootings are contagious events. Any help is appreciated!— Preceding unsigned comment added by Mackenziejoy (talk • contribs)

@Mackenziejoy: Great work on this article! I accepted the draft so it is in the main space. I misread your comment above (thought you were asking for review at AfC). Nonetheless, feel free to continue editing the article. TJMSmith (talk) 18:47, 1 May 2020 (UTC)

Two articles on one woman, need a merge

This time I didn't start either of them, but I started destubbing Agnes Mary Field when I noticed that Mary Field (filmmaker) was the same person. Both stubs, neither has a long edit history, but I know they should be merged in a way that preserves that history, so I hope someone can do that? I'll be happy to work on the article further when it's one article. Penny Richards (talk) 13:45, 1 May 2020 (UTC)

I have no idea how to do this Penny Richards but Rosiestep does. SusunW (talk) 17:47, 1 May 2020 (UTC)

@Penny Richards and SusunW:

Done. --Rosiestep (talk) 18:01, 1 May 2020 (UTC)

I merged the two Wikidata entries also. TJMSmith (talk) 18:35, 1 May 2020 (UTC)

Thank you all! That was quick. Penny Richards (talk) 19:35, 1 May 2020 (UTC)

Draft: The Classic Italian Cookbook

Hi, I just wrote an article for Marcella Hazan's Classic Italian Cookbook: Draft:The_Classic_Italian_Cookbook. I would appreciate it if someone could review it, thanks! --Gareth Ingleton (talk) 22:45, 1 May 2020 (UTC)

Draft: Cherry Bombe

Hello, I started this page for a cooking magazine. Would appreciate it if somebody looked it over. Link: https://wiki.riteme.site/wiki/Draft:Cherry_Bombe — Preceding unsigned comment added by Millerhighwife (talk • contribs) 18:20, 1 May 2020 (UTC)

@Millerhighwife: Hi there! I gave it a quick lookover and made a few changes. I also left you a message on your talk page with more suggestions for improvement. - Whisperjanes (talk) 07:00, 2 May 2020 (UTC)

Dante8

Large numbers of WIR-related articles, created long-ago by now-blocked editor Dante8, have been tagged as potential copyright violations and marked (rather indiscriminately in some cases) for deletion. You can join in at Wikipedia:Contributor copyright investigations/Dante8 to check individual articles, clear the ones that are not actually copyvios, or rewrite the ones that are. Please do not just remove the tags from tagged articles without actually checking what they might have been copied from, for instance by using https://tools.wmflabs.org/copyvios/. (This is actually pretty old, but I today saw some activity on my watchlist pushing to delete articles that had not been checked and for which there was no specific evidence of a copyvio.) —David Eppstein (talk) 19:17, 19 April 2020 (UTC)

As I noted at Talk:Dora Askowith, there seems to be a presumption of guilt in the absence of evidence that I genuinely do not understand. XOR'easter (talk) 21:37, 19 April 2020 (UTC)

It's worse than that. Even if one searches for and fails to find copying, it is taken as a presumption of guilt because you haven't actually proven (as would be impossible to do) the nonexistence of some other source that your searches didn't find. —David Eppstein (talk) 22:29, 19 April 2020 (UTC)

I have seen that presumption of guilt applied (correctly IMHO) to cases where a majority of created articles by a user were fully copyvio. I guess it is not the case here though. --MarioGom (talk) 22:31, 19 April 2020 (UTC)

In fairness, some of the tags have turned out appropriate. I have started rewriting Joyce Jacobson Kaufman and Mugai Nyodai. FYI: The normal way of using Earwig's copyvio detector doesn't work; you have to go to the page history, find the last pre-blanked version, and copy its revision ID (visible in the URL) into the form. Otherwise, it just tries to test the copyright violation alert for copyright violations. XOR'easter (talk) 22:57, 19 April 2020 (UTC)

Yes, that's what I was doing. (Actually, it would make more sense to look at the last Dante8-edited version, since that is more likely to surface the copying in question without masking it as much by later edits.) —David Eppstein (talk) 23:10, 19 April 2020 (UTC)

Good idea. It looks like Claudia Potter may be easy enough to rewrite, if someone would like to take a crack at it. XOR'easter (talk) 23:46, 19 April 2020 (UTC)

Some articles currently tagged as copyright violations and consequently up for deletion:

Dora Askowith, author and historian
Sarah B. Pomeroy, author, historian, and translator (replacement begun)
Helen Levinthal, "a pioneer in Jewish education for women"
Jalda Rebling, hazzan
Tish Sommers, author and women's-rights activist
Martha Neumark, rabbinical candidate

Cheers, XOR'easter (talk) 16:50, 20 April 2020 (UTC)

Margaret Wenig, Joyce Jacobson Kaufman, Claudia Potter, Mugai Nyodai, and Sarah B. Pomeroy have been rewritten. The others are still slated for deletion-as-copyvio. XOR'easter (talk) 14:04, 2 May 2020 (UTC)

Draft:Martha Rivera-Garrido

The draft could use a little work but I think this Dominican poet is notable. FloridaArmy (talk) 00:28, 3 May 2020 (UTC)

can a female sysop examine this AfD please?

SSSniperwolf is currently on AfD. I feel we need more coverage of prominent women on WP. For example, Ray Du English is only 1/10th the subscribers as SSSW, but it goes unchallenged. SSSW is covered by Hollywood Reporter, Daily Mail, Forbes, and the print-publishers Routledge. She is a good example of what we need more coverage of on WP IMHO. Thank you. -CoronaEditor (talk) 09:08, 4 May 2020 (UTC)

not to comment on the AfD discussion, there are also men here that might be interested to help you and that contribute to WIR. It's not only women here ;) Redalert2fan (talk) 10:04, 4 May 2020 (UTC)

It's rather offensive to both men and women, CoronaEditor. SERIAL ^# 10:10, 4 May 2020 (UTC)

The call for a female sysop to get involved is inappropriate. Headbomb {t · c · p · b} 19:27, 4 May 2020 (UTC)

Help with Join project button at WPWW

Can someone with tech skills help with this request at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Women writers#Join project button? Thanks. --Rosiestep (talk) 19:00, 4 May 2020 (UTC)

The user who posted the message has been a member since December 2015 and is still listed. See User:Vanamonde93/WikiProjectCards/WikiProject Women in Red.--Ipigott (talk) 20:02, 4 May 2020 (UTC)

Done Thanks. --Rosiestep (talk) 01:15, 5 May 2020 (UTC)

Second pair of eyes on Draft: E. Jane

I recently saw a draft of a new media artist at AfC: Draft: E. Jane. The draft was started almost a year ago (!!) and had a lot of unreliable sources, so I attempted to clean it up and put it up for review again.

I would really appreciate any extra eyes or editing hands to look it over! The clean up was kind of hard and I don't have the most experience with biographies (yet). - Whisperjanes (talk) 21:13, 1 May 2020 (UTC)

Having read that draft and done a quick google, I'm not sure E. Jane meets notability criteria (see WP:GNG). Independent sources are scarce and Jane doesn't seem to get sig cov of any of them. There's probably millions of 30-year-olds with minor claims to fame in the same way (artist-in-residence, social media art), and Jane doesn't appear to be among the notable few. While this comment may seem against the goals of this project, we can't be creating articles for everyone. Kingsif (talk) 22:50, 1 May 2020 (UTC)

@Kingsif: Thanks for taking a look! I appreciate it :) I'm not sure if they meet WP:GNG, either -- but I do think they meet WP:ARTIST notability, because their work and music has been the primary subject of multiple, reliable reviews: [10] [11] [12] [13] [14] [15] [16] [17]. I think it's worth noting that the difficulty in finding sources might be because 1.) They go by two generic names that are hard to search -- "E. Jane" (too common) and "Mhysa" (too similar to Game of Thrones), and 2.) They might be less likely to get coverage in mainstream sources because they are a black genderqueer woman and they work in a less mainstream/popular art field (new media and afrofuturist art).

But I do think the article reads a little bit strangely (especially because the artist works under two 2 names/personas), so I'd appreciate any advice on how to improve the article (or any thoughts on if there are parts that sound non-notable and need to either be fleshed out or trimmed down). - Whisperjanes (talk) 07:41, 2 May 2020 (UTC)

That might meet "significant critical attention", yes. My first recommendation would be to cut down on the college stuff (anyone can get a degree) and/or use more information from those reviews to write about the history of their career and artistic and musical style. A bio that relies too heavily on the non-notable aspects of a person's life (e.g. college, if they weren't in Footlights or something) is often a bad sign. Let me know if this helps or if you want to discuss more :) Kingsif (talk) 15:51, 2 May 2020 (UTC)

And I agree about sources: it's like old media has said 'we have Janelle Monáe, so we don't need any more'. I might try to dig something up. Kingsif (talk) 15:52, 2 May 2020 (UTC)

@Kingsif: Thank you! That advice does help a lot. I think I probably intentionally/unintentionally have stuck to more standard facts like education because they're easy to write and verify, and partially because I'm not sure how to go about writing about an artist's "style" on a Wikipedia article. I feel like what a source says about an artist's style is opinion-based/subjective, so I'm not sure how to write it in a verifiable way. I don't want to rely too heavily on direct quotes or (if I'm not using direct quotes) unintentionally write opinions as if they were facts. If you have any tips on this, that would be helpful (but no pressure). Based on your feedback, though, I'll first take a crack at fleshing out the draft with more about their career (and see what I can cut out that's non-notable). Thanks again! - Whisperjanes (talk) 07:29, 3 May 2020 (UTC)

I wrote the 'art style' section of Alia Penner (might need a ce), and some stuff about the 'style' of Miquel Bauçà (poet) on his page. That's what I see/write it as - there's probably other great examples out there, too. I recently read Abel Azcona, where there's parts on his style, influences, intentions. Kingsif (talk) 16:11, 3 May 2020 (UTC)

Thanks for those examples and all the help. I'll reference them while I'm working on sections about E. Jane's art/style. - Whisperjanes (talk) 02:45, 5 May 2020 (UTC)

Draft:Jennifer L Scott

This one might be fun for any Paris loving fashionistas. Her book got lots of coverage. FloridaArmy (talk) 03:28, 5 May 2020 (UTC)

Wikimedia CEE Spring 2020/CEE Women

Ipigott, SusunW, Rosiestep, Penny Richards, Joseph2302, Akakievich, PamD, Corachow, Wizardman: For those of you participating in the CEE edit-a-thon, it could be nice to signup and track the contributions at meta:Wikimedia CEE Spring 2020/CEE Women too. Not that most of us stand a chance to win the contest, but the increased participation could provide a morale boost for Wikimedia CEE. --MarioGom (talk) 12:48, 5 May 2020 (UTC)

Draft:Grace Paull

This draft looks like it might be a cut and paste. Regardless it needs to be rewritten and cited almost from scratch. But the subject seems quite interesting and compelling. I'd be happy to help if anyone wants to take a go at it. FloridaArmy (talk) 00:35, 5 May 2020 (UTC)

@FloridaArmy: I agree that it needs to be rewritten and cited from scratch. I have started a draft at Draft:Grace Paull (2) if you are interested in contributing. MarkZusab (talk) 01:05, 5 May 2020 (UTC)

I found a museum collection and a couple minor sources; added to draft #2. With the second museum collection she meets WP:ARTIST. Most of the sourcing available online is in the form of copyright entries and book credits. I could not verify her education, for example. If someone can verify the two sources form the original draft, they could be added to draft #2. ThatMontrealIP (talk) 03:10, 5 May 2020 (UTC)

I think I did that. Also, a Google book search of "Grace Paull Utica" turned up some sources I think. FloridaArmy (talk) 03:30, 5 May 2020 (UTC)

This has been approved with the requested redirect by MarkZusab placed as well. Cheers Sulfurboy (talk) 05:25, 6 May 2020 (UTC)