Wikipedia talk:WikiProject National Basketball Association/Archive 38

Archive 35

Archive 36

Archive 37

Archive 38

Archive 39

Archive 40

→

Archive 45

Kobe and Shaq

Can I make a suggestion header for the one in 2004-2007? Like 2004-2007: Self-destruction and rebuilding? The reason I think because of the 'Self-destruction' is because of what happened between Kobe and Shaq feud and Phil Jackson during the years. Sports Fan 1997 (talk) 17:41, 28 August 2019 (UTC)

What page are you talking about? In any event, "I think" sounds like it violates WP:NPOV and WP:OR.-UCO2009bluejay (talk) 21:37, 28 August 2019 (UTC)

The one where it's got the years, https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Los_Angeles_Lakers Sports Fan 1997 (talk) 02:03, 31 August 2019 (UTC)

@Sports Fan 1997: Three things, first from now on I suggest that you link the article in question as this page, WP:NBA, is for overall discussion of NBA articles not just for the Lakers, second you need to indent your responses, as other editors have requested that you do in the past. Therefore, we can keep the conversations neat and clean. Third, there is a talk page for that article Talk:Los Angeles Lakers where your questions might be more appropriate (and then you can put a notice on this page for the discussion.)-UCO2009bluejay (talk) 15:46, 31 August 2019 (UTC)

Now in regards, to the discussion at hand, I oppose the move because no sources back it up, and it violates No original research, and the editor has yet to establish that this is actually what happened. Besides, only missing the playoffs for one year is hardly "self-destruction." Using your logic we can say that from 2014-present should be called the "Lakers Suck" era.-UCO2009bluejay (talk) 15:46, 31 August 2019 (UTC)

@UCO2009bluejay Oh, now I see. I thought of the "Self-destruction" because of the more championships Kobe/Shaq could've had together. Well you did mess up on the logic comment, it's supposed to be 2013-present. Equivalent to 2013-2019. Regards Sports Fan 1997 (talk) 04:08, 1 September 2019 (UTC)

Actually I didn't, see WP:Crystal. Until they're winning again, we cannot say that they are. Last year, another (now banned) editor kept on saying that the Lakers were a playoff team, and we should update it as such. How did that work out?-UCO2009bluejay (talk) 18:07, 1 September 2019 (UTC)

@UCO2009bluejay: That user wasn't banned, User talk:The Speller just changed their user name. Yosemiter (talk) 18:14, 1 September 2019 (UTC)

Thanks @Yosemiter:. I am sorry (and I certainly wasn't trying to insinuate anything.) I was thinking about the guy who did the Rising Stars Challenge, over and over (and was banned for things other than NBA stuff.) This was completely my mistake.-UCO2009bluejay (talk) 18:18, 1 September 2019 (UTC)

Despite my misinterpretation of Wiki-events, then my point about WP:Crystal is even more solid. There is nothing that indicates that this current Lakers team will FOR SURE be elite. Sometimes monkey wrenches get thrown into gameplans.-UCO2009bluejay (talk) 18:22, 1 September 2019 (UTC)

@UCO2009bluejay: Lol, I see. Sports Fan 1997 (talk) 20:39, 1 September 2019 (UTC)

WNBA 50-40-90 club

Does the 50–40–90 club apply to the WNBA? Various IP editors recently added it to the page and I reverted them, but the content was restored (this time with sources). There are articles at WNBA and ESPN about this, but I do not have time to search for the sources due to my busy schedule. I might not reply here anytime soon so I created this discussion to avoid edit warring. – Sabbatino (talk) 12:00, 9 September 2019 (UTC)

I would say that it does, at least as much as it does in the NBA. Delle Donne is the first to do it in the WNBA so it’s not like there is a long history there. Rikster2 (talk) 12:19, 9 September 2019 (UTC)

I'm the person who added it with the sources. Since that edit, I've also found the following:

• Yahoo Sports, which didn't use the AP account, is explicitly using "50–40–90 club" in its headline, as well as using the phrase within the story.
• Sports Illustrated ran the AP story, putting "50–40–90 club" in the headline.
• The Washington Post writer on the Mystics beat (EDD's team) didn't use the phrase, but she (the writer has an obviously female name) also stated that EDD was the first WNBA player to satisfy all 50–40–90 criteria for an entire regular season.
• The Mystics issued a tweet calling EDD the WNBA's first 50–40–90 player. Steve Nash and Stephen Curry, themselves members of said club, explicitly welcomed her to this club when they retweeted the Mystics' announcement.

With these additional sources citing EDD as a club member, as well as NBA 50–40–90 players now publicly calling her a club member, I believe EDD (and any future WNBA members) should be included in the page. Also, keep in mind that the WNBA has only been playing since 1997. By that time, three NBA players had joined the club, with Larry Bird having had two such seasons. (Incidentally, Bird's first 50–40–90 season was the NBA's 41st.) — Dale Arnett (talk) 16:21, 9 September 2019 (UTC)

Terry Rozier page move

A user moved Terry Rozier to Terry Rozier III. The Hornets list him just as “Terry Rozier” (see here) and as I look at sources it seems like the “III” isn’t most common, but does appear not infrequently. Seems like it should be moved back but I’m open to the idea I’m missing something. Thoughts? Rikster2 (talk) 01:32, 10 September 2019 (UTC)

It's seem to have been self-reverted. The relevant policy is WP:NAMECHANGES.—Bagumba (talk) 23:21, 10 September 2019 (UTC)

Corky Devlin

Can an admin move Walter Devlin → Corky Devlin per common name? SportsGuy789 (talk) 06:04, 19 September 2019 (UTC)

Buehler.... Buehler...? SportsGuy789 (talk) 05:52, 22 September 2019 (UTC)

@SportsGuy789: I moved it. In the future, you might get more eyes by posting at Wikipedia:Requested_moves#TR. Regards.—Bagumba (talk) 01:31, 28 September 2019 (UTC)

Template:Infobox NBA season – adding NBL and BAA options

@Frietjes: Is there a chance you might be able to add optional parameters to the existing {{Infobox NBA season}}, so that if specified on the team's season article, the gold championship bar at the top can say "NBL champions" or "BAA champions"?

The NBL and BAA are forerunners to the modern NBA, so I don't see a reason to create entirely new championship season infoboxes for those leagues when a simple optional input would suffice.

The NBL existed from 1937–38 through 1948–49, while the BAA existed 1946–47 through 1948–49. Currently, the respective championship season team articles for both of these leagues are forced to have "NBA champions". Thanks for the consideration! SportsGuy789 (talk) 05:23, 28 September 2019 (UTC)

SportsGuy789, looks like there was already a |league= so you can use that with BAA or NBL (see 1948–49 Minneapolis Lakers season). Frietjes (talk) 13:32, 28 September 2019 (UTC)

Oh snap, didn't even see that. Thanks Frietjes! SportsGuy789 (talk) 14:36, 28 September 2019 (UTC)

SportsGuy789, while fixing pages in Category:Pages using infobox NBA season with unknown parameters, I found quite a few with the wrong/missing value for |league=, so it might be a good idea to check all the ABA team seasons, BAA team seasons, and NBL team seasons. also, in general, looking for teams using the NBA template that aren't NBA teams (like 2007–08 CE Lleida Bàsquet season). Frietjes (talk) 15:09, 28 September 2019 (UTC)

Nomination of Portal:Basketball and Portal:National Basketball Association for deletion

Two discussions are taking place as to whether Portal:Basketball and Portal:National Basketball Association are suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether they should be deleted.

The page will be discussed at Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/Portal:Basketball Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/Portal:National Basketball Association (2nd nomination) until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nominations will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the pages during the discussion, including to improve the pages to address concerns raised in the discussions. However, do not remove the deletion notice from the top of the pages. Certes (talk) 08:00, 16 October 2019 (UTC)

Player heights

I just want to remind folks that “listed height” (and weight) is still what is used for players. I’ve seen a lot of activity lately where people have insisted on using draft measurements, etc. (some of which I haven’t had a chance to revert). I think it’s widely known that the NBA is requiring teams to recertify heights (see here), so we probably will see a new set of new “listed heights,” but these actually need to be released before people start making assumptions. I’m hopeful that the NBA’s move reduces this issue in the future. Rikster2 (talk) 12:55, 30 September 2019 (UTC)

Some teams have released the updated heights already. Like the Nets have Kevin Durant at 6'10" now from 6'9"in NBA.com However, some have released new heights that are scattered through newspapers, websites, twitter, etc, but not the NBA.com player profiles. For example, the Celtics had new heights an their preseason opener gameday notes, and Boston.com also tweeted about it, but the new heights are not on the NBA.com rosters yet. And of course people were making updates without specifiying their source. Sigh.—Bagumba (talk) 04:42, 7 October 2019 (UTC)

yeah, I imagine the NBA will update all of these on NBA.com right before the season starts, feels like we should wait until then. Especially to see if they treat players at 6 foot 5.5 as 6’5 or as 6’6. Technically these players “listed heights” are the same as they ever were right now, you just have individual team results trickling out. Rikster2 (talk) 12:16, 7 October 2019 (UTC)

I wasn't going to get involved in the interim churn, but then seeing someone change Jaylen Brown to 6' 5.5" just looked silly.—Bagumba (talk) 13:27, 7 October 2019 (UTC)

Same. There are hundreds of players around the world who have debuted for their new teams, I’m focusing on these right now. At some point we will have official listed measurements on NBA.com Rikster2 (talk) 13:45, 7 October 2019 (UTC)

Tacko Fall is an interesting case. He was measured at 7'7" with shoes at the combine. A few days ago, it was reported that he was measured at 7'5" without shoes. Meanwhile, his NBA.com profile lists yet another height: 7'6". Zagalejo^^^ 01:47, 14 October 2019 (UTC)

I suggest we revert all heights/weights to NBA.com values around opening night. Some players seem to already be updated on nba.com while some high profile ones (Zion, Durant) haven’t been yet. At the end of the day it’s still listed measurements. I find it weird that the NBA made this a point of emphasis but haven’t had a push to update heights on nba.com. What was the point then? Rikster2 (talk) 13:16, 18 October 2019 (UTC)

Notification of consensus discussion for use of External Links in basketball player articles

Please join a conversation seeking consensus on the use of External links on basketball player articles. The discussion can be found here. Thanks Rikster2 (talk) 16:05, 19 October 2019 (UTC)

Category:Women's National Basketball Association presidents has been nominated for discussion

Category:Women's National Basketball Association presidents, which you created, has been nominated for possible deletion, merging, or renaming. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. SportsGuy789 (talk) 15:48, 21 October 2019 (UTC)

Request for information on WP1.0 web tool

Hello and greetings from the maintainers of the WP 1.0 Bot! As you may or may not know, we are currently involved in an overhaul of the bot, in order to make it more modern and maintainable. As part of this process, we will be rewriting the web tool that is part of the project. You might have noticed this tool if you click through the links on the project assessment summary tables.

We'd like to collect information on how the current tool is used by....you! How do you yourself and the other maintainers of your project use the web tool? Which of its features do you need? How frequently do you use these features? And what features is the tool missing that would be useful to you? We have collected all of these questions at this Google form where you can leave your response. Walkerma (talk) 04:24, 27 October 2019 (UTC)

San Diego Clippers

I noticed History of the San Diego Clippers got created today by User:Azure1233. I noticed the title is abnormal for this project and is usually used in just the MLB and NFL project (something I disagree with, as it seems to be against WP:COMMONNAME). It also seems that the most recent consensus was that the topic of the San Diego Clippers was better when merged with the LA Clippers page per edit history of the San Diego Clippers redirect (the editor in question was reverted several times by @Diannaa, Lithopsian, and Onel5969:). The NBA project does not appear to have any direct guidelines on past teams having pages or not (Vancouver Grizzlies/Seattle SuperSonics/Buffalo Braves are stand-alone vs. Syracuse Nationals/Rochester Royals as redirects).

Just looking to see if there is a different opinion here, but I feel that if there is a stand-alone page on the "History of the San Diego Clippers", it should just be titled "San Diego Clippers" per COMMONNAME and the subject probably could meet GNG just fine. But I also have no opposition if the San Diego Clippers' content is entirely within the LA Clippers page if that is the preference here. Yosemiter (talk) 01:18, 28 October 2019 (UTC)

@Yosemiter: I've started Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/History of the San Diego Clippers to discuss this.—Bagumba (talk) 04:55, 28 October 2019 (UTC)

External links

FYI

There is a general discussion on basketball external links at Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Basketball#Consensus_discussion_-_External_Links_(ELs).—Bagumba (talk) 07:55, 28 October 2019 (UTC)

Template:NBA Draft legend - Rookie of the Year shading?

I just noticed that {{NBA Draft legend}} has a shading for the Rookies of the Year. I think the idea of identifying the ROYs in the list is a good idea, but that a new color coding scheme is a horrible way to go about it. At least 90% of the time a player wins ROY he will become an All-Star at some point, possibly even both an All-Star and All-NBA. How is that supposed to be represented when there are three different color codes with a possible 6 different combinations of those awards and honors? It becomes unruly.

The ROY designation should follow suit with NBA All-Rookie Team, for example, in that the ROYs are bolded. Bolding players' names will not interfere with any of the other awards/honors' color or symbol schemes in {{NBA Draft legend}}.

Pinging the regulars: @Bagumba:, @Rikster2:, @Zagalejo:, @Dale Arnett:, @UCO2009bluejay:. —SportsGuy789 (talk) 05:06, 1 November 2019 (UTC)

• I personally prefer the All-Rookie Team scheme, since it reduces the amount of colors needed. It's not easy to keep multiple colors straight, especially in a long list—and some color schemes can be troublesome for colorblind people. — Dale Arnett (talk) 06:16, 1 November 2019 (UTC)
  • As long as a symbol is paired with color, as it is here, accessibility is met per MOS:COLOR.—Bagumba (talk) 06:53, 1 November 2019 (UTC)
• I think bolding the names is the easiest solution. Zagalejo^^^ 03:26, 2 November 2019 (UTC)

Notification of a proposed change at Template:Infobox basketball club

I am notifying the members of the project about a proposed change at Template:Infobox basketball club. The discussion can be found at Template talk:Infobox basketball club#Move current season to bottom. Your opinions would be appreciated. – Sabbatino (talk) 11:11, 7 November 2019 (UTC)

College retired numbers

FYI

There is a discussion about the display format of college retired numbers at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject College Basketball § Retired number in bio inbox.—Bagumba (talk) 10:07, 9 November 2019 (UTC)

Criteria for player nicknames

What are the current criteria for adding a nickname for a player? I ask because of some confusion as to the nickname (or existence of one) for Gary Harris. Pretty much all of the last 15 edits have been related to nicknames. Are there WP:NBA-specific guidelines for this? 400spartans (talk) 23:16, 12 November 2019 (UTC)

The "Gary 'Gary Harris' Harris" thing appears to be an internet joke: [1]. Per WP:COMMONSENSE, it's not a real nickname, and certainly shouldn't be forced into the very first sentence. This article should probably be semi-protected. Zagalejo^^^ 05:07, 13 November 2019 (UTC)

@400spartans: Nothing project specific. There's the general policy about verifiability, and MOS:NICKCRUFT says they need to be "frequently used". Again, hopefully common sense prevails.—Bagumba (talk) 06:18, 13 November 2019 (UTC)

Protected Harris for 2-weeks. Let me know if it ends up needing more.—Bagumba (talk) 06:18, 13 November 2019 (UTC)

Thanks! Zagalejo^^^ 16:48, 16 November 2019 (UTC)

Lakers headers

I got a question. Why haven't the both Lakers history articles been updated? Currently it's got 2016-present: Post-Bryant era. To me and I think other fans believe it ended this summer. Lakers and NBA fans agree. Bcp 2000 (talk) 19:20, 21 November 2019 (UTC)

@Bcp 2000: And "Lakers and NBA fans agree"d that in the previous offseason. And that season ended exactly as they speculated (/s). We should never speculate about future events on Wikipedia. Once they make the playoffs or some other achievement, then we change. Until then it would be speculation, and god forbid another injury halts their current progress. Yosemiter (talk) 19:37, 21 November 2019 (UTC)

I'm sure everybody is pretty confident that they will absolutely make the playoffs (at least to conference finals), the only way they wouldn't make it is if the players die or something tragedy. Good players, Good coaching staff, Overall A+ — Preceding unsigned comment added by Bcp 2000 (talk • contribs)

@Bcp 2000: First off, please WP:INDENT your replies. Second, this is the exact same argument made in September 2018: "Post-Bryant era is over, they're back as a playoff team". Please read WP:SPECULATION. We do not write the future. "Everybody" said the Lakers were a sure thing for the playoff last December too, it didn't happen. Please be patient as this is an encyclopedia, not a fan site. Yosemiter (talk) 19:55, 21 November 2019 (UTC)

Their making records right now. If they win 2 more games, it'll be 14-2 for the first time since 2008 (Thunder and Grizzlies next two games). 18-2 record will be the first time 1985. Bcp 2000 (talk) 19:56, 21 November 2019 (UTC)

Ok well I can accept most of that. But when they make the playoffs in April I suggest it should be Post-Bryant era: 2016-2019. Last year it was just LeBron on the Lakers, now it's LeBron James and Anthony Davis. A little different team as well. Think about that till around March. Bcp 2000 (talk) 20:46, 21 November 2019 (UTC)

Am I the only one getting the feeling that this is the second account of Sports Fan 1997? The same agenda is used about the "post-Bryant era" and it is strange that a completely new editor just pops up and asks the same things as Sports Fan 1997. – Sabbatino (talk) 13:47, 22 November 2019 (UTC)

I thought similarly. Wouldn't surprise me too much considering Sports Fan got another warning a day ago for using talk pages as forums for this exact reason, as well as the account's similar misuses of INDENT. Also, it is not too often a brand new account goes straight to a WikiProject talk page about a subject. Yosemiter (talk) 16:13, 22 November 2019 (UTC)

Looks like a new user has started doing the same thing as Sports Fan 1997 – Jeremy 011 (talk · contribs). The very same agenda is used. Should we consider filing a WP:SPI report? – Sabbatino (talk) 23:59, 10 December 2019 (UTC)

Maybe, but Sports Fan seemed to know how to edit headers between the "=" and not outside like this editor did. Feel free to ask for a checkuser though at Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Lln78933 (their older username; properly changed a few times since then), they have socked before even if not recently that we know of. Yosemiter (talk) 02:10, 11 December 2019 (UTC)

I've opened up a new investigation here after blocking Sports Fan 1997 two weeks for persistent disruption of talk pages. Eagles 24/7 (C) 13:40, 11 December 2019 (UTC)

The two accounts identified above were confirmed to be Sports Fan 1997 socks, and the main account has now been indef'd. Thanks for the investigative work. Eagles 24/7 (C) 20:05, 11 December 2019 (UTC)

Pro Basketball Encyclopedia

Is anyone familiar with the Pro Basketball Encyclopedia? It looks like an interesting source of information on pre-1950s basketball. Does anyone know who is behind it? Zagalejo^^^ 15:44, 30 November 2019 (UTC)

I looked at it. I doubt some of it is real though cause I saw a baseball team on their (New York Yankees). It is some good basketball information. I think maybe David Neft is behind that article. Sports Fan 1997 (talk) 01:26, 3 December 2019 (UTC)

@Sports Fan 1997: You mean this New York Yankees (basketball)? Yosemiter (talk) 02:13, 3 December 2019 (UTC)

@Yosemiter: Oh. I guess that is a true website. I thought it was the MLB team. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sports Fan 1997 (talk • contribs) 02:51, 3 December 2019 (UTC)

Fun fact: there used to be a baseball team called the New York Knickerbockers. Zagalejo^^^ 03:31, 3 December 2019 (UTC)

The Web site does not list if there's any editorial control over anything or who the editor is.... looks like a personal site. That said I see legal trouble ahead for them as they seem to have copied info from this book.--Moxy 🍁 02:55, 3 December 2019 (UTC)

What material do you think is copied? I have that book. Basic facts and statistics cannot be copyrighted (and the vast majority of the statistics on that site are not in the NBA Encyclopedia, anyway). Zagalejo^^^ 03:17, 3 December 2019 (UTC)

RfC on Athletes pictured at work or in city of origin

Your input is welcome at Talk:Minneapolis#RfC_on_Athletes_pictured_at_work_or_in_city_of_origin. Thank you. -SusanLesch (talk) 21:30, 20 December 2019 (UTC)

RFC on use of nationality and birthplace

FYI

There is an RFC on birthplace and nationality parameters in infoboxes, which is related to this project's use of Template:Infobox basketball biography. You are invited to join the discussion at Wikipedia_talk:Manual_of_Style/Infoboxes#RfC_on_birthplace,_nationality,_and_citizenship_parameters_with_matching_values.—Bagumba (talk) 09:00, 3 January 2020 (UTC)

Miami Heat colors switched

Looks like someone changed the colors of the Miami Heat in templates from white on black to a secondary white on orange. Can someone switch it back (and is the template sufficiently protected)? Thanks. Rikster2 (talk) 20:26, 18 November 2019 (UTC)

@Rikster2: I restored the colors. Charlesaaronthompson is the user who made the change and it seems that he is unsure himself, which formation is correct. Care to explain why are you doing this? Because you changed the Heat's color codes and then reverted yourself three times since August 2019. – Sabbatino (talk) 21:44, 18 November 2019 (UTC)

@Rikster2 and Sabbatino: I changed the HTML color codes for the Miami Heat because their official colors are red, yellow, and black. Black is a tertiary color, not a primary color, according to NBA.com/Heat. The section on that website states: "Out with the orange, in with the new. In the 1999–2000 season, Miami underwent a wardrobe update. The new jerseys featured striped panels on both sides, updated numerals, a shift from orange to a bold yellow, and a wishbone collar to bring the HEAT into the new millennium. Along with our new uniforms came tweaked wordmarks and logos, complete with the same updated red and gold to replace the previous red and orange. The uniforms arrived just in time for Y2K — but without the fear of losing everything in a computer crisis." All you have to do to find that quote is click on the timeline button on the left hand side of the screen. Click on "'95–'02 Riley Era Begins". Then click on the ninth button at the bottom of the screen. That URL reference clearly states that the Heat's two primary colors are red and gold. Charlesaaronthompson (talk) 02:52, 19 November 2019 (UTC)

@Charlesaaronthompson: Nowhere in that source, which you showed, does it state that red and yellow are the primary colors. Your assumptions about the colors are WP:OR at best. The Miami Heat Reproduction and Usage Guideline Sheet clearly lists the colors in the order of "black, red, yellow". Do not reinstate them at Miami Heat like you already did, which I reverted and wait for this discussion to end. – Sabbatino (talk) 08:02, 19 November 2019 (UTC)

@Sabbatino: This is not WP:OR. I have found an archived URL reference from NBA.com/Heat which states the following: "Unveiled during the 2008 NBA Draft, the HEAT’s new secondary logo is sleeker and cleaner than the previous flaming “MH” logo. The new logo is white and outlined in the HEAT’s colors of red, yellow, and black. The “H” also has a flaming tip which resembles the “T” on the HEAT’s primary wordmark." That URL reference is found here (via the Wayback Machine). However, I will hold off on changing the colors over at Module:Sports color/basketball until or unless there is a widely adopted WP:CONSENSUS to change them from other editors involved in this discussion. The last thing you or I should want is to engage in an edit-war over the Miami Heat's official club colors. Charlesaaronthompson (talk) 17:46, 20 December 2019 (UTC)

@Rikster2: What is your opinion on the official Miami Heat team colors over at Module:Sports color/basketball? Please feel free to reply and join in this discussion at any time. I'm trying to build a WP:CONSENSUS. I promise to leave the colors as black and red if that's what the consensus is. Charlesaaronthompson (talk) 18:26, 20 December 2019 (UTC)

I say white on black as it is right now. That is not only the most readable per WP:CONTRAST but it mirrors the color scheme on the Heat website. Rikster2 (talk) 12:53, 21 December 2019 (UTC)

@Rikster2 and Sabbatino: OK, thanks for your input, Rikster2. I actually found this article from NBA.com/Heat. It's from December 23, 2012. It says "With the HEAT sporting a special red Christmas Day uniform when they take on the Oklahoma City Thunder on December 25 at 5:30 p.m., the team is encouraging HEAT fans to wear red to the marquee match-up, featuring a rematch of the 2012 NBA Finals. As part of the NBA’s BIG Color initiative, all teams participating in a Christmas Day game will wear a new uniform highlighting one of their team colors. The HEAT red Christmas Day uniform is all red with white trim outlining just the team name, player name and numerals." Judging from this article, it would appear that red is the primary club color. I just thought I would add this NBA.com article to the discussion. Charlesaaronthompson (talk) 23:11, 26 December 2019 (UTC)

@Rikster2 and Sabbatino: It seems obvious to me that the Miami Heat's primary club colors are red, yellow, and black, per NBA.com/Heat (via the Wayback Machine). Would either one of you object if I changed the color codes to reflect this fact over at Module:Sports color/basketball? I'll wait for responses. Charlesaaronthompson (talk) 22:55, 27 December 2019 (UTC)

There is nothing in that story that you linked that confirms red as the primary color. It specifically talks about special red uniforms. The white/red combo is very hard to read, which I assume is why the Heat use white on black for their official site, which I pointed out earlier in this discussion. Rikster2 (talk) 23:01, 27 December 2019 (UTC)

@Rikster2: OK, I get that the URL reference about the Heat's Christmas Day uniform is probably not relevant, but what about the URL reference from NBA.com/Heat (via the Wayback Machine) that I referenced earlier? That URL reference specifically states "Unveiled during the 2008 NBA Draft, the HEAT’s new secondary logo is sleeker and cleaner than the previous flaming “MH” logo. The new logo is white and outlined in the HEAT’s colors of red, yellow, and black. The “H” also has a flaming tip which resembles the “T” on the HEAT’s primary wordmark." Is this not specific enough to state that the Heat's primary colors are red and yellow, and not black and red? Charlesaaronthompson (talk) 23:11, 27 December 2019 (UTC)

Please stop with the original research. The "Miami Heat Reproduction and Usage Guideline Sheet" says otherwise. – Sabbatino (talk) 14:16, 28 December 2019 (UTC)

@Sabbatino: Again, this is not original research. The URL reference from NBA.com/Heat (via the Wayback Machine) was previously used in the infobox of the main Miami Heat article. Again, I ask: since when is the "Miami Heat Reproduction and Usage Guideline Sheet" the be-all and end-all URL reference for the Heat's colors? It isn't. Charlesaaronthompson (talk) 20:57, 31 December 2019 (UTC)

Except it is, as that's it's express purpose. Plus, plainly put, it is the only objective source provided here. Every other post in this thread is a case of interpreting stories on old pres releases or the colors of the website and drawing their own conclusions laser on those. That's wP:SYNTH. We have a definitive objective reference from the team and league themselves. That is the only acceptable source provided here, and must be adhewred to! oknazevad (talk)|•~

@Oknazevad: I respectfully disagree. There is also yet another article from NBA.com/Heat which states "On Thursday, January 25th, the HEAT will formally debut its “Vice” City Edition uniform designed in-house by Miami HEAT Graphic Designer, Brett Maurer. Inspired by Miami HEAT history and the city of Miami in the 1980’s, the Vice uniform pays homage to the culture cultivated throughout the city and among Miami HEAT fans. The campaign is the future as imagined in the 1980’s. As if the art and culture of a bygone time has become the foundation for our future, transforming our present into an alternate reality staged against the magenta backdrop of Vice-era Miami. Vice starts with the classic HEAT silhouette from 1988, replaces franchise red and orange with laser fuchsia and blue gale, and features the original Miami Arena script across the chest and a reimagined HEAT ball and flame logo sporting the Vice color combination." That article is found here. Notice in quotes "Vice starts with the classic HEAT silhouette from 1988, replaces franchise red and orange with laser fuchsia and blue gale, and features the original Miami Arena script across the chest and a reimagined HEAT ball and flame logo sporting the Vice color combination." This is not my interpretation on a press release and drawing my own conclusion on it. Also, the "Miami Heat Reproduction and Usage Guideline Sheet" is NOT the only acceptable source provided here, as evidenced by this URL reference I have just provided. Charlesaaronthompson (talk) 00:19, 1 January 2020 (UTC)

Yet, it replaces the red and orange colors with the 80s inspired colors. The black color remains. Nowheredoes it call red and orange primary colors, just calls them colors used by the franchise. You're the one reading into that.

But none of that matters whatsoever. Opinions are meaningless when definitive factual references exist, which we have here. What the team says on their one document specifically defining the colors trumps any personal interpretation of press releases or other such things. Instead of trying to read between the lines, read the bloody lines! oknazevad (talk) 03:46, 1 January 2020 (UTC)

@Oknazevad: Again, as I have explained multiple times before, the "Miami Heat Reproduction and Usage Guideline Sheet" is not the be-all, end-all reference, yet all three of the editors involved in this discussion beside me seem to be convinced that it's the only reference we can ever use. I humbly and respectfully disagree. I have provided multiple, definitive, factual URL references from NBA.com/Heat that specifically state that red is the club's primary color, not black. The references I have provided are not personal opinions or interpretations, and no, I'm not trying to read between the lines. Charlesaaronthompson (talk) 05:24, 1 January 2020 (UTC)

@Oknazevad, Rikster2, and Sabbatino: It turns out that I have found a URL reference from another National Basketball Association (NBA) team's media guide that specifically states that the Miami Heat's official team colors are indeed, red, yellow, black, and white. That team's media guide is the Indiana Pacers. The URL reference is from the Pacers' 2017–18 media guide, which can be found here (in the opponents section, it states "TEAM COLORS Red, Yellow, Black and White"–in that specific order.) Charlesaaronthompson (talk) 05:32, 1 January 2020 (UTC)

That reference doesn’t say the colors are listed in order. It lists “purple” first for the Hornets, for instance, which is absolutely not their primary color. Rikster2 (talk) 05:36, 1 January 2020 (UTC)

@Rikster2: Yes, that URL reference does indeed spell out the Heat's colors in order. Charlesaaronthompson (talk) 05:52, 1 January 2020 (UTC)

@Rikster2, Sabbatino, and Oknazevad: Normally, an NBA team's NBA G League affiliate uses colors that mirrors the NBA parent club's color scheme. With that in mind, the Sioux Falls Skyforce's official colors are, in order, red, yellow, and black, which mirrors the Miami Heat's color scheme. The URL reference that specifies the Skyforce's team colors is found here. Charlesaaronthompson (talk) 00:37, 3 January 2020 (UTC)

Your thesis that G-League affiliates have the exact same color schemes as their parent club's is unsupported, and synthesis at best. Plenty of counter examples, not the least of which is the Long Island Nets, or the Maine Red Claws, or pretty much any other team it the G-League that doesn't use their affiliate's color scheme. oknazevad (talk) 02:07, 3 January 2020 (UTC)

@Oknazevad: Those, along with the Memphis Hustle and Erie BayHawks, are the only exceptions, AFAIK with NBA teams that have G League affiliates. About 23 of the NBA's 30 teams have G League affiliates that use the parent club's primary color scheme. Charlesaaronthompson (talk) 02:26, 3 January 2020 (UTC)

But do they use the exact same color scheme or do they reorder the colors? Because you haven't proven anything either way? What the style sheet for the G-League team States only applies to the G-League team. The official style sheet of the Heat themselves states plainly that black is their primary color. We don't need to make any further inquiries or inferences beyond that. oknazevad (talk) 04:57, 3 January 2020 (UTC)

@Oknazevad: Yes, the NBA G League affiliates that use the parent club's primary color scheme use the exact same colors in order. So, it would stand to reason that the Miami Heat's official club colors are, once again in order, red, yellow, black, and white, per the other references I have provided in this discussion. Yes, I'm acutely aware that the Reproduction and Usage Guideline Sheet for both the Heat and the Sioux Falls Skyforce lists black first for both teams. What I've been trying to say is that we can use more than just the Reproduction and Usage Guideline Sheet. There are other references, which I've clearly provided, that state otherwise that black is not the Heat's primary color. The Reproduction and Usage Guideline Sheet is not the be-all and/or end-all references for club colors, especially when other references are available that contradict it. I also forgot to mention that this URL reference from NBA.com/Heat (via the Wayback Machine) that I referenced earlier also states "To bring in the millennium, the HEAT redesigned its logo for the first time in history. The team kept its traditional ball and flame logo but changed the body to its primary color of red with a yellow flaming tip. The new logo was also redesigned with a black outline, and the color of the “halo” was changed to white. The HEAT also made a slight modification to its wordmark – angling the flame on the end of the “T.” " The club states on its website that it made the change prior to the 1999–2000 NBA season. Again, this is not WP:SYNTH. I'm directly quoting the team that states directly that the primary color of its logo is red. Charlesaaronthompson (talk) 19:47, 3 January 2020 (UTC)

@Oknazevad, Rikster2, and Sabbatino: Based on the URL reference from NBA.com/Heat (via the Wayback Machine), it is apparent that the Miami Heat's official colors are, in order, red, yellow, and black. What more could I do or say to persuade each of you? Also, when may I change the colors at Module:Sports color/basketball to reflect this fact? Charlesaaronthompson (talk) 04:39, 4 January 2020 (UTC)

@Charlesaaronthompson: Repeating the same stuff in almost every reply is not helping you or anyone else. As I already pointed out in my first reply – you changed (with the addition of reverting your own edits) the colors of the Heat three times since August 2019. In addition, in the past you very strongly advocated for the use of the "Reproduction and Usage Guideline Sheet" of the teams, which have been used until 2019 when you started the WP:SYNTH campaign by reading between the lines and adding more colors than such sheets list (I am talking about press releases from the teams). Therefore, suddenly changing your stance looks silly to say the least. At this point it appears that you should just WP:GETOVERIT, because you already wrote that you "give up" until you changed your message so it seems that you need to learn how to WP:HOWTOLOSE. – Sabbatino (talk) 07:15, 4 January 2020 (UTC)

@Sabbatino: Yes, I own up to all that. Again, what I've said about it is definitely not WP:SYNTH. You and the other two editors are definitely reading that wrong. Charlesaaronthompson (talk) 07:38, 4 January 2020 (UTC)

No, you still haven’t brought anything forth that definitively proves what you claim. So stop pinging me on this discussion. Rikster2 (talk) 12:09, 4 January 2020 (UTC)

@Sabbatino, Rikster2, and Oknazevad: OK, I can clearly see that I'm in the minority in this discussion. So, I guess I will WP:GETOVERIT, and learn WP:HOWTOLOSE gracefully. It is painfully obvious to me that the majority of the editors in this discussion prefer that the Miami Heat's primary colors at Module:Sports color/basketball are black and red, and that the colors in the infobox are, in order, black, red, and yellow. This is what the WP:CONSENSUS is clearly established as, based solely on the team's "Reproduction and Usage Guideline Sheet", and so therefore, I must abide by the established consensus. Charlesaaronthompson (talk) 03:35, 5 January 2020 (UTC)

Players on teams that are inducted into the Basketball HOF

In NBA awards lists, should players that were members of a team that was inducted into the Basketball Hall of Fame be highlighted as "Elected to the Naismith Memorial Basketball Hall of Fame" if they were not inducted as a player. For example at FL List of NBA All-Stars, players who were on Olympic teams that got inducted like Christian Laettner (1992 Olympics), Adrian Smith (1960), and Darrall Imhoff (1960) are not marked as HOF players on the list; the key specifically says "Elected to the Naismith Memorial Basketball Hall of Fame as player". This is similar to FL NBA All-Rookie Team, where Laettner is also not highlighted for the HOF.

At NBA All-Star Game Most Valuable Player Award, Basetornado has highlighted Adrian Smith (1966 MVP), who was not inducted as a player, but as a member of 1960 Olympic team. The key there only says "Elected to the Naismith Memorial Basketball Hall of Fame", but I suspect the intent there and all the other NBA player awards lists was to only highlight those inducted as a player, not as a team, coach nor contributor.

Should NBA award lists for players mark those inducted into the HOF:

1. as a player
2. either as a player, coach, contributor, or member of a team
3. other?

—Bagumba (talk) 13:58, 6 January 2020 (UTC)

No we shouldn’t. Saying a person is a “Hall of Famer” because they were on a HOF team is misleading. Pretty sure we’ve had a discussion about this before though I don’t have time to look it up. I guess I vote #1, but think a HOF coach winning Coach or the Year or contributor winning Executive of the Year would also be in the intended spirit. Rikster2 (talk) 14:04, 6 January 2020 (UTC)

Yeah, I intentionally wanted to limit the discussion to players, but the same spirit applies to other awards.—Bagumba (talk) 14:17, 6 January 2020 (UTC)

Order of categories

@KingSkyLord: I see that you have been re-ordering categories from their previous alphabetical order, like this edit at Kevin Love. I don't really care how it's ordered, I just don't want to see it going back and forth on my watchlist, and I see that some of your edits have been reverted. Can you please establish a consensus before resuming? Thanks.—Bagumba (talk) 17:26, 6 January 2020 (UTC)

@Bagumba: you could've mentioned this in my talk page and not on the WikiProject's talk page. KingSkyLord (talk | contribs) 17:36, 6 January 2020 (UTC)

@KingSkyLord: I centralized the discussion, presuming you had an idea that needed other's input. If the project had a more formal convention that I also strongly endorsed, I likely would have told you directly. Regards.—Bagumba (talk) 17:48, 6 January 2020 (UTC)

@Bagumba: I made some reverts to NBA and NFL pages until I was point to MOS:CATORDER at Brett Favre's page, which says that "Eponymous categories should appear first. Beyond that, the order in which categories are placed on a page is not governed by any single rule (for example, it does not need to be alphabetical, although partially alphabetical ordering can sometimes be helpful). Normally the most essential, significant categories appear first." In my opinion, the order of categories should not be changed without giving a good reason for that, because I also do not like seeing useless changes on my watchlist. – Sabbatino (talk) 22:20, 6 January 2020 (UTC)

There's seems to be a practice that has become common, particularly with the NFL bios, in the last year or so of ordering the categories in chronological order. Looks like KingSkyLord was trying to do that in that edit above. I'm am certainly not fan of the chronological ordering. Some mix of importance and alphabetical order seems much more sensible. Jweiss11 (talk) 22:26, 6 January 2020 (UTC)

Alpha order has been the way with basketball articles for years. Personally, I like it better than “importance” or “chronological” because it takes subjectivity largely out of the equation. It also makes it easier for readers to see if a category is there or not. Rikster2 (talk) 02:05, 7 January 2020 (UTC)

Proposal: Career High tables

Hello. I had an idea recently that I hope to receive feedback on, and possibly implement in articles pertaining to individual professional basketball players. What if there was a chart on player articles detailing all of a player's recorded and verifiable single-game career highs? I have gravitated toward this idea as a result of having added career stat tables to several past obscure NBA players and a few active WNBA players; my first was Chuck Nevitt in April 2018, my current most recent being Lorenzo Williams. Further inspiration has come from Basketball Reference's own single-game high tables that were unveiled in 2018 and the player pages on NBA.com from around 2003.

I made a draft of a career high page using the stats of Tim Duncan, whose article is listed by this WikiProject as a featured article of high NBA importance; see at end of post for said table. If this addition is welcome to implement throughout Wikipedia, I would also like to see equivalent tables for playoff game highs, WNBA players, and pre-1973 NBA players (worth emphasis due to lack of steals/blocks stats). I would suggest that if a player has reached a specific career high more than five times, the entry would be listed as [x high]... [y times], as opposed to listing every single game featuring the relevant stat.

One reason why I am submitting this proposal is because it would help many of the basketball player articles have even more comprehensive information about their subjects, especially statistically. Season/career highs are also a strong element of interest to casual fans and NBA experts alike (i.e. Wilt Chamberlain's 100-point game, and often has beyond significant notable coverage and verifiability. So, if anyone supports or opposes, proposes an alternate table, or tweaks to the format below, let me know. Thanks.

Stat	High	Team	Opponent	Date
PTS	53	San Antonio	vs. Dallas	December 26, 2001
FGM	19	San Antonio	vs. Vancouver vs. Dallas @ Orlando	April 1, 1999 December 26, 2001 December 5, 2003
FGA	34	San Antonio	Orlando	December 5, 2003
3PM	1	San Antonio	various	30 times
3PA	2	San Antonio	various	13 times
FTM	17	San Antonio	Utah	January 17, 2002
FTA	24	San Antonio	Dallas	February 13, 2001
OREB	12	San Antonio	Sacramento	February 12, 2002
DREB	23	San Antonio	Miami Heat	February 1, 2003
TREB	27	San Antonio	Atlanta	January 27, 2010
AST	11	San Antonio	Cleveland Golden State	March 25, 2000 November 30, 2010
STL	8	San Antonio	Denver	February 9, 2000
BLK	9	San Antonio	Memphis	January 26, 2007
MIN	51:35	San Antonio	Sacramento	April 27, 1999

Mungo Kitsch (talk) 04:06, 31 December 2019 (UTC)

References

• Oppose per WP:NOTSTATSBOOK. The exact tables were present in Wikipedia some years ago and then they all were removed based on the mentioned policy. It is better to present such infotmation in prose but there are not many pages where we can do this, because some players' pages do not include much in prose aside from the mention of some games or contracts. – Sabbatino (talk) 09:17, 31 December 2019 (UTC)
• Comment The rough consensus previously at Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Basketball_Association/Archive_33#Table_of_career_highs was not to include a table. Mention in prose is ok.—Bagumba (talk) 09:24, 31 December 2019 (UTC)
• Comment I do think this information is easier to digest in a table, rather than in prose. My main concern is maintenance. If the tables are only in articles about retired players, that's fine with me. But if we start adding these tables to articles on active players, the tables become another thing that needs to be updated on a regular basis. Zagalejo^^^ 23:22, 31 December 2019 (UTC)

  Players are not defined by their single-game highs, so a dedicated section seems undue. Moreover, the average player's highs in most categories dont even get mentioned in routine coverage like game recaps. We have links to stats sites already in EL, which is sufficient for this case.—Bagumba (talk) 02:11, 1 January 2020 (UTC)

• Oppose Table is undue. Mention in prose is sufficient, preferably only if an article (i.e. non-stats stite) mentions it.—Bagumba (talk) 19:48, 7 January 2020 (UTC)

Olivier Hanlan's draft rights

Are Olivier Hanlan's draft rights retained by the Spurs? He was signed by them in September 2018, was then waived in the same month, and then went to play in Germany in November 2018. I am asking, because his listing was removed form the Spurs' page. – Sabbatino (talk) 13:48, 11 January 2020 (UTC)

Once a player is officially signed then waived the team renounces their rights. It’s why you see some players go straight to another country without signing for training camp - that way the team retains their rights. A example of this was Nigel Williams-Goss and the Jazz. Rikster2 (talk) 14:44, 11 January 2020 (UTC)

I knew about the not signing and going to other league thing, but I did not know about the "signed-waived" situation like Hanlan's. Since he plays in other league than NBA, I assumed his rights were still retained by the Spurs. Thanks for clarification. – Sabbatino (talk) 15:29, 11 January 2020 (UTC)

Once you sign a draftee, you have to keep them or lose them. Doesn't matter if they go abroad or not.—Bagumba (talk) 15:42, 11 January 2020 (UTC)

How to phrase text about LeBron James being considered the greatest basketball player of all time?

Opinions are needed on the following matter: Talk:LeBron James#Removing Michael Jordan from Lebron's introduction - phrasing of sentence for GOAT. A permalink for it is here. Flyer22 Reborn (talk) 21:59, 14 January 2020 (UTC)

Rosters on past team season pages

At an old team season article like 2008–09_New_York_Knicks_season, an IP has been changing the team roster to list specific postions like changing F to SF.[2] I reverted a few, because they were unsourced, but I realize now that they could potentially be sourced at basketball-refernence.com Does anyone have an opinion? I'm neutral. Unlike current seasons, where we have been relying on NBA.com, I think we'd be stuck using basketball-reference.com anyways if anyone contest an old roster.—Bagumba (talk) 18:12, 11 January 2020 (UTC)

Another example (same IPv6 user) is changing old Warriors roster to use Durant's new listed height.[3]—Bagumba (talk) 18:16, 11 January 2020 (UTC)

I think it’s best to stay away from specific positions in roster templates generally. Mainly because people edit war over it and the contemporaneous team rosters themselves don’t go deeper than G/F/C. Rikster2 (talk) 18:28, 11 January 2020 (UTC)

Sure, but what source would we use? Do we use b-r.com, and then make their specific positions generic? Or do we try to find an old archive url to NBA.com? The former is easiest, push comes to shove. Generally, I haven't seen people changing old rosters much (aside from obvious vandalism), so it just stays from when that season ended.—Bagumba (talk) 18:32, 11 January 2020 (UTC)

I would delete every single roster listing from team season pages if it was up to me. At WP:NHL we remove the roster templates once the season is over, because the statistics' tables show who played for the team in that season. – Sabbatino (talk) 20:49, 11 January 2020 (UTC)

It'd be one of my last options, and only if we can't decide how we want to maintain it and deal with disputes years after the season is over.—Bagumba (talk) 12:48, 12 January 2020 (UTC)

What are these rosters meant to reflect? Just the roster as it existed at the end of the year? The stats tables would give a more complete picture of everyone who participated throughout the season. Zagalejo^^^ 03:50, 14 January 2020 (UTC)

I think player position is useful for older teams. I become less familiar with players over time, and the roster snapshot gives you a quick overiew of the team composition. Ideally, the roster has all players who played that season, but the reality is those dont get updated much after the season is over. I dont mind if the roster stays, but it's not usually something I spend much time on either.—Bagumba (talk) 04:22, 14 January 2020 (UTC)

Archive.org Maybe not so bad to rely on NBA.com still. I found 2008–09 Knicks roster archive at archive.org[4]. Ideally, we replace the URL with a snapshot archiveurl at the end of the season. Otherwise (more likely), just fetch it later if a dispute comes up.—Bagumba (talk) 13:03, 12 January 2020 (UTC)

For example I added an archive url at 2013–14 Phoenix Suns season.—Bagumba (talk) 10:23, 14 January 2020 (UTC)

On a side note, I am concerned with edits by Wikiacontribbutor (talk · contribs) who supposedly "improves" team season pages by removing game logs, changing formats of the tables and so on. Some editor (cannot remember who it was) tried reasoning with him in the past, but the aforementioned editor clearly indicated ownership regarding the SuperSonics pages. – Sabbatino (talk) 20:59, 11 January 2020 (UTC)

Best to usually start a conversation on their talk page or here (and invite them) as a first step in dispute resolution.—Bagumba (talk) 12:46, 12 January 2020 (UTC)

Sabbatino (talk · contribs) im just doing what im trying to do. The colors don't match with the team sometimes and even it feels like a entirely different team!. And of course, the past is the past, you can't change the past because it is already in the past. And colors represent a team, and why, some of the other past teams dont have that matching colors that you are talking about. And im not trying to "claim" ownership of this pages, i am trying to balance the team colors so that the reader can identify it easier rather putting colors on past rosters in combining into the present ones. That's all i am trying to say, i hope you understand Sabbatino (talk · contribs). I hope we could get along soon.(Wikiacontribbutor (talk) 11:55, 16 January 2020 (UTC))

@Wikiacontribbutor: First of all, were are you taking the obscure color codes from? Secondly, you claimed ownership of one of the SuperSonics' pages when you wrote to other editor in hostile manner, saying that he should not edit the page, because your edits are "better" (I cannot remember where exactly and if you used this account or one of your IPs, because it is evident that you have been editing long before creating an account). – Sabbatino (talk) 16:43, 16 January 2020 (UTC)

Sabbatino (talk · contribs) i am concerned that you are NOT also editing the other past teams in the rosters expect for the Sonics. If that's the case, why not edit the other teams like the Washington Bullets, the Hornets, the Cavs? That's the problem. Wikiacontribbutor (talk) 23:13, 16 January 2020 (UTC)

@Wikiacontribbutor: I am not interested in editing those pages, because I do not care for those teams. I do not really care about the SuperSonics. However, I am monitoring the SuperSonics' page, because I was asked to do so due to your behavior there. – Sabbatino (talk) 07:20, 17 January 2020 (UTC)

@Wikiacontribbutor: I again reverted your changes to the "Draft picks" and "Roster" sections at 1994–95 Seattle SuperSonics season since the color codes are unverifiable and the table's formatting in the "Draft picks" section is just absurd. In addition, it has problems with WP:OVERLINK so the Template:Flag was substituted with Template:Flagu template, which fixes those issues. – Sabbatino (talk) 07:45, 17 January 2020 (UTC)

"Season-by-season record" section in team pages

What does everyone think about the Season-by-season record sections on teams' pages? Some teams had these sections for a long time and on January 24 such sections were added to other teams' page that did not have them. I am wondering what value do they have to the overall quality on teams' pages, because they clearly mirror such sections used by the NHL teams' pages. Another problem would be WP:RSBREAKING since some editors tend to make updates during the season. – Sabbatino (talk) 16:55, 26 January 2020 (UTC)

@Sabbatino: Seems like a case of recemtism: what makes the last five seasons so important? On the Lakers' article, it seems that the section which was just a link to List of Los Angeles Lakers seasons was expanded to include the last five seasons. This also creates more maintenance work to keep this updated every season. I'd suggest removing the entire section and adding the season list as a "see also" hatnote to the "Team history" section of each teams' article.—Bagumba (talk) 08:33, 19 February 2020 (UTC)

@Bagumba: We could ask Moka Mo (talk · contribs) but I doubt that any response will be given. – Sabbatino (talk) 09:36, 19 February 2020 (UTC)

FWIW, it seem to be done in hockey articles as far back as 2007. Still, WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS isn't necessarily a reason to replicate this.—Bagumba (talk) 09:53, 19 February 2020 (UTC)

You might have missed it, but I already mentioned the NHL pages when starting the discussion. There must have been some consensus to create such sections for NHL teams and the only mention about it that I found is this discussion. Nowhere in other old archives did I find any discussions about it. – Sabbatino (talk) 10:15, 19 February 2020 (UTC)

I did see your NHL comment, which is what made me wonder if this was a recent phenomena or not.—Bagumba (talk) 10:36, 19 February 2020 (UTC)

The tables on NHL pages have been there for as long as I have been editing. If that discussion is correct, such tables were started to add when it appeared on one of the NHL team's page. However, as you already indicated, NBA (or any other page for that matter) should not replicate other leagues' pages. – Sabbatino (talk) 15:09, 20 February 2020 (UTC)

Mavericks and Bryant

Can anyone else help me monitor the Mavericks' page? Because editors keep adding that Bryant's number is retired/will be retired when nothing about that was announced, which is a clear WP:OR violation by making assumptions. The Mavericks only said that the number will not be issued to their players and nothing was said about retiring it. – Sabbatino (talk) 11:16, 27 January 2020 (UTC)

This may be a lost cause. How do we normally deal with retired numbers? Do we wait for a formal ceremony? In this case, we at least have a statement from Cuban himself. And NBA.com uses the phrase “to retire” in an official release [5] Zagalejo^^^ 20:39, 28 January 2020 (UTC)

@Zagalejo: We wait for a formal ceremony. The NBA with the addition of every other media outlet took Cuban's statement out of context. Nowhere did he say that "the Mavericks will retire the number 24 jersey". It is best to wait what Cuban meant exactly, because right now many people lost common sense. – Sabbatino (talk) 22:11, 28 January 2020 (UTC)

I don't think Cuban's decree is fundamentally different from retiring a number. Realistically, you'll be fighting over this for months. The best thing to do may be to list the number with a footnote (though I know that's not really practical in a navbox.) Zagalejo^^^ 03:25, 29 January 2020 (UTC)

It's debatable. I'd recommend mentioning this disucssion at that talk page, and add a {{discuss}} template on the actual page if it gets re-added. There's a lot of sources calling it a retirement event if Cuban never used the word. I would wait for a presumed ceremony, or at least it being presented in some way like their other retired numbers (in the rafters? media guide? etc)—Bagumba (talk) 10:46, 29 January 2020 (UTC)

Vandalism on 2019–20 team season pages performed by 佳峰

User 佳峰 (talk · contribs) updates the regular season game logs on all 30 NBA teams' 2019–20 season articles on a daily basis, and their edits include numerous errors. Their errors range from not changing the links from NBA.com on the Suns page, to frequently inserting wrong point totals, assists, and rebounds for the players. I have had to fix the incorrect content on a nightly basis, and it has gotten pretty ridiculous at this point. I elected not to leave a message on their talk page because they tend to blank their page after they receive warnings from other editors. Here are some examples from the past few pages where I have had to make corrections. ([6], [7], [8], [9]) There are way more than this, but these are the most recent ones. I am sure someone else can support my complaint about this situation. Yowashi (talk) 04:24, 29 January 2020 (UTC)

@Yowashi: Could these be errors and not actually vandalism?—Bagumba (talk) 11:22, 29 January 2020 (UTC)

I've also notified 佳峰 on their talk page about this discussion.—Bagumba (talk) 11:29, 29 January 2020 (UTC)

@Yowashi: I elected not to leave a message on their talk page because they tend to blank their page There's nothing wrong with a user blanking their talk page if the comment gets addressed. I'd suggest always contacting the user directly first.—Bagumba (talk) 11:38, 29 January 2020 (UTC)

The problem with 佳峰 is that it blanks its talk page and just continues to edit. The editor does not even use the edit summary, which is disruptive to say the least. – Sabbatino (talk) 13:45, 29 January 2020 (UTC)

I see that Yowashi has fixed more errors in 佳峰's latest edits. I've blocked them indefinitely until they are willing to discuss concerns raised. Everyone makes errors. This block is only to encourage discussion so an understanding can be reached on what is happening and what are reasonable expectations.—Bagumba (talk) 09:11, 30 January 2020 (UTC)

The only problem with 佳峰 being blocked from editing is that they were the only editor that updated the game logs on a nightly basis. Doesn't appear that anybody else is going to fill in for 佳峰. I updated the last couple days but, I would prefer to stick to updating the NHL stuff regularly and then make small edits to the NBA pages if necessary. Yowashi (talk) 07:54, 1 February 2020 (UTC)

Is the blocked user even fluent in English? Spot-checking their edits, I can’t find any evidence that they can put a full sentence together in English. Their edits are mostly changes to numerical data and changes to single words/phrases. Perhaps someone could attempt to talk to the user in a different language? (Chinese, maybe? Sorry, I don’t recognize the characters in their username.) Zagalejo^^^ 19:44, 4 February 2020 (UTC)