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Archive 1

Archiving

Anyone know how to setup archiving here? ---Another Believer (Talk) 15:33, 31 August 2024 (UTC)

I set it up on the project page. Hopefully it's correct. Do we need an archive on the talk page as well?
Expandinglight5 (talk) 16:11, 31 August 2024 (UTC)
I created one for Talk. Expandinglight5 (talk) 17:02, 1 September 2024 (UTC)

Showcase

I think I've included all of the encyclopedia's Michelin-related Featured lists and Good articles, but feel free to expand if I've overlooked any. Thanks! ---Another Believer (Talk) 20:08, 16 August 2024 (UTC)

Just to confirm, this task force includes Michelin-starred restaurants (red stars), right? It excludes Green stars, Bib Gourmand and The Plate restaurants. (CC) Tbhotch 04:36, 17 August 2024 (UTC)
I would agree that this is only for Michelin-starred restaurants, excluding other ratings from the guide. Other ratings brings questionable notability into the project. Expandinglight5 (talk) 16:45, 17 August 2024 (UTC)
Agree with limiting the scope to (current and former) Michelin-starred eateries. ---Another Believer (Talk) 16:58, 17 August 2024 (UTC)
I've thought about this a bit more. I could see editors being tempted to associate articles in Category:Michelin Guide Bib Gourmand restaurants with this project. I'm not suggesting Bib Gourmand status means a business is notable, but for those restaurants that are notable, I wouldn't be bothered if they were included under the umbrella of this project. It is called WikiProject Michelin Guide, not WikiProject Michelin-starred restaurants. I don't feel strongly either way, just noting the slight discrepancy. ---Another Believer (Talk) 00:20, 22 August 2024 (UTC)
I agree. If the restaurant is notable and has a rating from Michelin (Bib Gourmand or other rating), then I see no issue with including as part of this project. Though I think we would agree the list pages that are "Michelin-starred" should remain as such without the inclusion of Bib Gourmand or other Michelin ratings. Expandinglight5 (talk) 03:34, 22 August 2024 (UTC)
Yes, agreed. ---Another Believer (Talk) 03:38, 22 August 2024 (UTC)
@Tbhotch: Just wanted to make sure you saw this update in our thinking, since you ask and you're also tagging articles for this project. Thanks! ---Another Believer (Talk) 15:38, 22 August 2024 (UTC)
Thanks. I'll tag the missing articles, if any. (CC) Tbhotch 07:04, 24 August 2024 (UTC)

Spelling Conventions

Should articles about American-located (United States) Michelin-starred restaurants be designated as using American English while Canadian, Great Britain, etc. use British English or other appropriate English dialects and the talk pages on those pages be noted accordingly and should not be changed without broad consensus? Expandinglight5 (talk) 23:41, 21 August 2024 (UTC)

Support ---Another Believer (Talk) 23:55, 21 August 2024 (UTC)
MOS:ENGVAR and WP:RETAIN apply. (CC) Tbhotch 07:00, 24 August 2024 (UTC)
@Expandinglight5 Please let me know when this has been added to the style guide, so I can archive this section. Thanks! ---Another Believer (Talk) 00:57, 3 September 2024 (UTC)
This is now added to the style guide Expandinglight5 (talk) 02:18, 3 September 2024 (UTC)
Thanks! Archiving here, as this can now be discussed on the style guide talk page if needed. ---Another Believer (Talk) 02:20, 3 September 2024 (UTC)

Consistent Section Name for List pages

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.


This should be part of the style guide once we create one but what should the Section name be titled? There are multiple versions on various Michelin-starred list pages. The following are in use: List, Year range (i.e. 2019-2024), Year range list, (i.e. 2019-2024 list), Alphabetical list, Michelin Star List, Restaurant list, List of restaurants, Alphabetic list.

Some pages do have multiple sections so in some instances there are multiple tables with year ranges. Thoughts on the labeling and syntax?

Expandinglight5 (talk) 05:35, 23 August 2024 (UTC)

Can this be moved to the talk page on the style guide?
Expandinglight5 (talk) 03:05, 3 September 2024 (UTC)
@Another Believer Can this be moved to the style guide talk page as well?
Expandinglight5 (talk) 03:26, 3 September 2024 (UTC)
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Blank cells vs. N/A template

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.


In lists of Michelin-starred restaurants, should we leave cells empty or use Template:N/a to show when stars were not awarded? Whatever we decide, I recommend we seek consistency. ---Another Believer (Talk) 20:01, 23 August 2024 (UTC)

Are there other lists that have FL status that we can reference? My inclination is to simply leave blank. I would agree that it should be consistent and what's agreed should go in the style guide. Expandinglight5 (talk) 20:30, 23 August 2024 (UTC)
I've looked a bit further into this. The Ireland list is a good example of N/A vs. Blank cells. Both on a tablet and on a desktop, the table looks better with the N/A than a blank cell. Compare that with another region such as NYC. I would propose we use the N/A. Expandinglight5 (talk) 16:59, 31 August 2024 (UTC)
@Another Believer Can this be moved to the talk page on the style guide? I think there are a few other style related discussions that should move as well.
Expandinglight5 (talk) 03:15, 3 September 2024 (UTC)
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

See also sections

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.


A lot of lists of Michelin-starred restaurants (example) have lengthy See also sections. Should we include links that also appear in Template:Lists of restaurants and Template:Michelin Corporation at the bottom of the page? ---Another Believer (Talk) 23:38, 23 August 2024 (UTC)

I'm not sure. I'm not seeing in possibly relevant guidelines (MOS:REPEATLINK and MOS:NOTSEEALSO) that such links are explicitly prohibited. On the other hand, I think you could make arguments along the spirit of both of those guidelines that if a See also section is too long, those kinds of repeated links should be the first to go. seefooddiet (talk) 19:32, 25 August 2024 (UTC)
I'm also conflicted. Simply listing every list link doesn't make sense but you could argue to list other related lists in the same country/region such as Vancouver suggesting other Canadian pages like Toronto. However, the US has many regions and perhaps that is too lengthy (and this will likely get longer as Michelin expands into more markets)? I'm inclined to remove except for perhaps 3-star listing pages where relevant as I'm not sure it's intuitive to expect to find that in the Michelin/restaurant template. List of Michelin-starred restaurants in New York City and List of Michelin-starred restaurants in Las Vegas seem to make the most sense. Thoughts?
Expandinglight5 (talk) 23:57, 25 August 2024 (UTC)
@Another Believer Move this one to style guide talk section as well?
Expandinglight5 (talk) 04:23, 3 September 2024 (UTC)
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

List for England

New list, thanks to User:Dtmich24 (who also made the list for Greater London):

---Another Believer (Talk) 23:52, 23 August 2024 (UTC)

Nice! Expandinglight5 (talk) 23:55, 23 August 2024 (UTC)
You're welcome! I'll try and create other lists as well for additional regions when I have a moment. Dtmich24 (talk) 00:24, 24 August 2024 (UTC)

First year on list highlighting

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.


Some Michelin-starred lists such as Florida and NYC have highlighting of restaurants in their first year on the Michelin-starred list. What is everyones opinion? Its practice is fairly inconsistent among the list pages and seems a bit redundant. Perhaps this is related to accessability? Expandinglight5 (talk) 05:19, 31 August 2024 (UTC)

Personally I feel it should be removed. As you said, the 'first year' highlight is redundant since that can be surmised from the chart itself. Open to thoughts feeling otherwise, though. Dtmich24 (talk) 14:42, 31 August 2024 (UTC)
@Another Believer Probably should move this one to the talk page on the style guide as well.
Expandinglight5 (talk) 04:14, 3 September 2024 (UTC)
Moved to WikiProject Food and drink/Michelin Guide task force/Style Guide
 – --Another Believer (Talk) 04:16, 3 September 2024 (UTC)
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

List of "Michelin starred" restaurants

English is not my native language but,shouldn't these pages and categories be titled List of Michelin-starred restaurants? Like List of Michelin-starred restaurants in New York City? (CC) Tbhotch 20:12, 19 August 2024 (UTC)

I, too, have noticed the inconsistency of "Michelin starred" vs. "Michelin-starred" vs. "Michelin Guide starred" vs. "Michelin Guide-starred" throughout the project. ---Another Believer (Talk) 20:18, 19 August 2024 (UTC)
I would propose Michelin starred instead of Michelin Guide starred as I've never heard them described as Michelin Guide starred either in speech or in writing. As for the hyphenation, I believe Michelin-starred is correct as it is a compound adjective of restaurant.
Expandinglight5 (talk) 20:46, 19 August 2024 (UTC)
+1 prefer we work to use "Michelin-starred" consistently ---Another Believer (Talk) 01:14, 20 August 2024 (UTC)
Why do you want American English for a French guide? The Banner talk 10:39, 25 August 2024 (UTC)
? Is "Michelin-starred" not valid in British English? Seems like it is valid per [1] seefooddiet (talk) 02:18, 27 August 2024 (UTC)

Categories

Resolved

Anyone able to easily move Category:Michelin Guide starred restaurants and subcategories appropriately, or, do we need to start a move discussion? ---Another Believer (Talk) 01:16, 20 August 2024 (UTC)

They are handled at speedy. I'll do it in a while. (CC) Tbhotch 00:09, 21 August 2024 (UTC)
Thanks! ---Another Believer (Talk) 00:16, 21 August 2024 (UTC)
The categories are now tagged and they will be moved within the next 72 hours. (CC) Tbhotch 06:59, 24 August 2024 (UTC)
Thank you so much! We can mark this section as resolved once the categories are moved. ---Another Believer (Talk) 15:31, 24 August 2024 (UTC)
I saw a lot of corrections on this category. Does anyone know if the speedy job is complete? Expandinglight5 (talk) 23:40, 25 August 2024 (UTC)
It's missing a few. (CC) Tbhotch 23:21, 26 August 2024 (UTC)
I think the categories have all been moved. Shall we consider this issue resolved? ---Another Believer (Talk) 03:20, 28 August 2024 (UTC)
I've uncollapsed the entire category tree and I think we're set here. Marking as resolved. ---Another Believer (Talk) 02:18, 29 August 2024 (UTC)

Lists

Resolved

Anyone able to easily move Lists of Michelin starred restaurants and all of the entry lists, for consistency, or do we need to start some sort of move request? ---Another Believer (Talk) 01:20, 20 August 2024 (UTC)

@Expandinglight5: Would you say the lists are currently consistent and appropriately named? If so, I'll mark this section as resolved. ---Another Believer (Talk) 05:01, 22 August 2024 (UTC)
Yes, I believe they are all corrected and consistent. Expandinglight5 (talk) 05:13, 22 August 2024 (UTC)
Agree, thanks for your help here! ---Another Believer (Talk) 05:16, 22 August 2024 (UTC)

Dinner by Heston Blumenthal

The article alert page is not working properly but Dinner by Heston Blumenthal is at GAR. (CC) Tbhotch 08:25, 3 September 2024 (UTC)

Bummer, but the article was promoted 12 years ago and definitely needs some work. ---Another Believer (Talk) 18:01, 3 September 2024 (UTC)
@Tbhotch Thanks for improving the entry! ---Another Believer (Talk) 18:55, 5 September 2024 (UTC)
Update: The article remains Good! Archiving this section. ---Another Believer (Talk) 14:16, 30 September 2024 (UTC)

Barnstar

I've submitted a request for a barnstar for this task force :)

---Another Believer (Talk) 22:18, 21 August 2024 (UTC)

Thanks! (CC) Tbhotch 06:59, 24 August 2024 (UTC)
Sure thing! I thought I came across a page once that was specifically for requesting new barnstars, but I can't find one now. We'll see if anyone bites! ---Another Believer (Talk) 18:44, 24 August 2024 (UTC)

Green stars

Green Star

I made a post here: Template talk:Michelin stars. Currently the template doesn't support Michelin Green Stars. I believe it could/should seefooddiet (talk) 00:31, 25 August 2024 (UTC)

Agreed, it would be good to denote green stars. Maybe we add the Bib Gourmand image into the template as well? Versus using the separate image we discussed in the Bib Gourmand thread on this page. Dtmich24 (talk) 01:52, 25 August 2024 (UTC)
Potentially, although Bib Gourmand maybe merits a separate template because it's not a "star"? Not sure if it's an important distinction. I'd support either adding to this template or creating a new one. seefooddiet (talk) 01:58, 25 August 2024 (UTC)
I added the green star, refer to Conchas de Piedra as an example. Regarding the Bib Gourmand image, it is a potential copyright violation. (CC) Tbhotch 20:54, 25 August 2024 (UTC)
Good catch on Bib Gourmand, didn't think of that. seefooddiet (talk) 20:57, 25 August 2024 (UTC)
And on the topic of Green Stars as well, now that we have the template what are folks' thoughts on including that in the various 'List of Michelin-starred...' geographic lists? Makes sense to include the green star where applicable in the chart rows? In a separate table on the page? Or not at all? Dtmich24 (talk) 01:08, 26 August 2024 (UTC)
A Green Star is not what is meant when referring to a "Michelin-starred" restaurant. If doing a Michelin-rated or Michelin-reviewed list then I suppose all of the ratings would apply. Expandinglight5 (talk) 02:15, 26 August 2024 (UTC)
Related question, is it possible to receive a green star but not a regular Michelin star? seefooddiet (talk) 02:40, 26 August 2024 (UTC)
Yes. Some restaurants only have a green star some only have a Michelin star and others have both.
Expandinglight5 (talk) 02:44, 26 August 2024 (UTC)
Hm. Then maybe if an article was "List of Michelin-rated" it could include bib gourmand and green stars as well. seefooddiet (talk) 04:20, 26 August 2024 (UTC)
Yes but I would question WP:Noteability and possibly confusing. Expandinglight5 (talk) 04:24, 26 August 2024 (UTC)

Heads up!, List of Michelin-starred restaurants in Mexico will be featured on the Main Page:

Congrats to Tbhotch! Hopefully the first of many Michelin-related Main Page appearances. ---Another Believer (Talk) 14:01, 6 September 2024 (UTC)

Thanks! (CC) Tbhotch 03:47, 21 October 2024 (UTC)

Possible Tasks

Here are some ideas for an open task list that we could put on the main page:

1. Agree on a format for the list/tables for Michelin list pages. Should the columns be Name || Cuisine || City/Neighborhood (neighborhood where applicable) || Year(s) in that order? Should cuisine precede city/neighborhood or vice versa? I like the idea of having cuisine included in the list but it's inconsistent among articles. A few lists include the head chef. I'm inclined to remove the head chef from the list page as that can change as the chef isn't always the owner and that information might be best suited for the individual article.
2. Based on the above decisions, update the list pages for consistency
3. Create lists for regions that do not presently have a page. We could start gathering the list of regions that are presently missing and work towards creating. Some regions (such as France) given their long history with Michelin will be difficult to create a complete list but we could start with the current ratings for 2023/2024 and then improve the list.
4. Nominate or improve the 3-star restaurant articles for Good Article status (then work towards Featured Article) particularly the restaurants with a long standing of 3 stars; The French Laundry, Per se (restaurant), Masa (restaurant), Le Bernardin, and Alinea (restaurant) are a few that come to mind.
5. Find images for existing articles.
6. Create {{WikiProject Food and Drink/Michelin Guide task force}} banner.
7. Apply WikiProject banner to relevant lists/articles talk pages.

Expandinglight5 (talk) 04:13, 19 August 2024 (UTC)

One follow-up on list format, what are the thoughts on color coding the first year on the list (See NYC)? I find this redundant along with color coding to indicate rating (See Mexico). Thoughts?
Expandinglight5 (talk) 04:55, 19 August 2024 (UTC)
Of course, we focus on English Wikipedia, but at some point it'd be nice if we could do some translation work, too. Are there places where we can request to have Good articles at English Wikipedia translated into other languages? Perhaps there are quality articles at other language projects that should be translated into English? Just thinking out loud. Thanks for starting this brainstorm discussion. ---Another Believer (Talk) 17:56, 19 August 2024 (UTC)
I created the open task list which I'm sure will expand. Feel free to edit as you see fit to add/remove/complete. Expandinglight5 (talk) 04:40, 21 August 2024 (UTC)
@Expandinglight5 I think User:Tbhotch is working to add articles to Category:WikiProject Michelin Guide articles. What about a template inviting others to join the project? ---Another Believer (Talk) 22:19, 21 August 2024 (UTC)
That's a great idea. Is there an easy way to find the original creators of various Michelin articles and other significant contributors to Michelin-related articles to see if they would be interested? Expandinglight5 (talk) 22:41, 21 August 2024 (UTC)
Not sure about an "easy" way -- I think we just have to go digging! I did already invite the creator of the recently AfC-accepted List of Michelin starred restaurants in Wales. ---Another Believer (Talk) 23:30, 21 August 2024 (UTC)
User:Seefooddiet is working on the South Korean list. (CC) Tbhotch 07:32, 24 August 2024 (UTC)
Yes, it's true. I'm aiming to finish the currently starred restaurants, and may or may not get to the ones that aren't currently starred.
Btw I was wondering if I should be following any style things you guys are doing. See Category:Michelin Guide starred restaurants in South Korea for my work so far. seefooddiet (talk) 08:06, 24 August 2024 (UTC)
Re: List order, I've been going Name || Location || Cuisine || Year(s) in the lists I've created/edited, but let me know what you folks prefer and can make edits to change those lists if we prefer cuisine before location. Dtmich24 (talk) 00:35, 24 August 2024 (UTC)
List of Michelin-starred restaurants in South Korea uses Name || Cuisine || Location || Year(s), but I'm happy to assimilate to your ordering if others agree. seefooddiet (talk) 08:12, 24 August 2024 (UTC)
Agreed there's no right or wrong but I was also doing Name || Cuisine || Location || Year(s). Expandinglight5 (talk) 22:08, 25 August 2024 (UTC)
Sure, let's go with Name || Cuisine || Location || Year(s) on the lists. I'll make adjustments where needed - feel free to do the same if you come by any lists in other orders. Dtmich24 (talk) 16:21, 27 August 2024 (UTC)
Please be sure to keep List of Michelin starred restaurants in Mexico in full compliance with our preferred standards and style guide, since this is our only Featured list to use as a template. Thanks! ---Another Believer (Talk) 16:26, 27 August 2024 (UTC)

FL Nomination of List of Michelin-starred restaurants in Las Vegas

I've worked a bit on this page and I think it's suitable to be nominated for a Featured List. Let me know what you think. Expandinglight5 (talk) 19:49, 23 August 2024 (UTC)

I recommend a key and some additional reference formatting, per List of Michelin-starred restaurants in Mexico. You might take a look at this list in more detail, as well as the feedback received during the FL review, just so you know what to expect! ---Another Believer (Talk) 19:54, 23 August 2024 (UTC)
Thank you. I agree the references need some work. I'm not familiar with the bot tools but are you familiar with one that can review and correct the reference formatting?
Perhaps some other images could be added?
I saw the key and it seems overly redundant to have a key stating that a column with one star means it was awarded one star...and if it's shaded in a certain color, it was awarded one star. What do you think? Expandinglight5 (talk) 20:41, 23 August 2024 (UTC)
I've gone back and reviewed this and I think the key does add value though I think the colors are redundant. I've added the key excluding the color coding. Expandinglight5 (talk) 22:37, 23 August 2024 (UTC)
The color coding might be for accessibility purposes. Perhaps Tbhotch knows. ---Another Believer (Talk) 22:44, 23 August 2024 (UTC)
Yes, the colors were added for accessibility purposes as screen readers won't read the stars or read the file as "Michelin star" once, twice or thrice. (CC) Tbhotch 07:03, 24 August 2024 (UTC)
Thank you for explaining. I'll work on revising. Expandinglight5 (talk) 21:17, 25 August 2024 (UTC)
Any strong opinion as to whether the key should go above or below the list? I'm seeing some inconsistencies. Expandinglight5 (talk) 23:45, 25 August 2024 (UTC)
I thought below looked cleaner, but I'm fine with it being above if that's the preference or if that's more suitable for accessibility purposes! Dtmich24 (talk) 23:52, 25 August 2024 (UTC)
I think you're right. Anybody else? Expandinglight5 (talk) 00:01, 26 August 2024 (UTC)
I would think a key would be presented first, for accessibility purposes, but I'm not sure and will yield to consensus. ---Another Believer (Talk) 00:52, 26 August 2024 (UTC)
Should the key only show relevant ratings? If the list only contains 1-star ratings, should the key only show 1 star and hide the other two? Expandinglight5 (talk) 16:25, 31 August 2024 (UTC)

Importance

I was asked at Template:WPFOOD if there would be an importance rating. I didn't add it because foodservice excludes it (and I personally hate them as they don't work in large projects). I assessed all the articles. There are 100 purged pages at the moment but the total number of pages is around 1000, and I'm missing 300 head chefs, which makes this task forcé a small one. Before I continue purging more pages, which I can do by adding an importance scale, shall this project have importance rankings?

I thought that a good criteria would be:

  • Top: Michelin Guide, related people (founders, critics, editors) and "List of" pages.
  • High: Any current or historical three-star restaurants and chefs
  • Mid: Any current or historical two-star restaurants and chefs
  • Low: Any current or historical one-star restaurants and chefs
  • NA: the usual non-articles.

Any thoughts? (CC) Tbhotch 20:08, 19 August 2024 (UTC)

It's a good idea but given the project just began and we have a very small task force at the moment, I wonder if it's practical. Expandinglight5 (talk) 21:02, 19 August 2024 (UTC)
@Tbhotch I think this plan makes sense, and would recommend you go ahead with it. Even if the task force is small, this sorting can be done over time. seefooddiet (talk) 08:17, 24 August 2024 (UTC)
I'd need some sort of consensus to request a change to that page. (CC) Tbhotch 20:45, 25 August 2024 (UTC)
If you make the post there I can back you up. seefooddiet (talk) 20:47, 25 August 2024 (UTC)
I mean, it requires a more solid consensus than three opinions. (CC) Tbhotch 01:28, 2 September 2024 (UTC)

Style Guide

I started the Style Guide for list pages. I created the first version of the style guide for list pages but have yet to create a format for Restaurant articles or Chef articles. I think this is a good starting point but I'm sure many users can add and improve to the guideline. Please feel free to add/change/revise as necessary or post any discussion items here on the Talk page. Expandinglight5 (talk) 00:18, 3 September 2024 (UTC)

@Expandinglight5 Thanks for starting a new page. ---Another Believer (Talk) 01:06, 3 September 2024 (UTC)

Thank you!

Just a 'thank you!' to all who have supported this project so far. It is so nice to see new lists and restaurant articles being created, more consistency among pages, and collaboration across the board.

Thanks again and keep up the great work! Happy editing, --Another Believer (Talk) 19:02, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

Yes, this was a great idea. Thank you for creating the project. I don't know how this compares to other Wikiprojects but it feels like a lot of progress has been made in a short period of time especially since there are only a few members to date. Expandinglight5 (talk) 21:48, 5 September 2024 (UTC)
I agree! ---Another Believer (Talk) 21:50, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

Upcoming Michelin Guides

Just for tracking purposes, here are upcoming Michelin Guides which I am aware of. If anyone sees any others, feel free to add to this list:

 Done

Dtmich24 (talk) 17:53, 3 September 2024 (UTC)

Over at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Drag Race, there are two sections at the top of the talk page that do not get archived because they are used as helpful checklists by project members for ongoing tasks. This calendar strikes me as something we might want to 'lock down' at the top of the page, and continue to update over time. What do others think? Not required, just an idea. ---Another Believer (Talk) 19:05, 5 September 2024 (UTC)
It's a good idea. Given the number of markets Michelin is in which is expected to increase, I suppose a calendar could become cumbersome. Perhaps specific dates over the next 30 days and the remaining items by quarter of expected updates? Maybe we could review a draft and see how it looks before adding? Expandinglight5 (talk) 21:52, 5 September 2024 (UTC)