Wikipedia talk:Teahouse

Edit requests

I'm not sure what purpose there is to allowing edit request like those above to be added to this talk page. Edit requests regarding specific article content should be made on the talk page of the article itself, right? So, declining them as they've been declined above doesn't make much sense to me. The best that can be done in my opinion would be to respond in the same way as if the "request" was posted on the main TH page itself: advise the asker that questions and concerns about article content should be discussed on the article's talk page. Similarly, when TH questions are posted here by mistake, they are sometimes moved to the main page and responded to there.

I know these ER are the direct result of the main TH page being protected, and the templates used for protection probably are advising people to post their ER on this talk page. That set up may work fine for other pages but seem to work as well here since pretty much TH questions are about things other than the TH itself. Is there any way to tweak things so that this talk page doesn't suddenly get filled up with edit requests? -- Marchjuly (talk) 00:51, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

Yes, declining the edit requests isn't very useful. Now that the edit protection has been lifted, I'm going to move the questions to the main Teahouse page so that they can be answered. Cordless Larry (talk) 09:05, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

The editnotice is broken

See Template talk:Editnotices/Page/Wikipedia:Teahouse#Template styles CSS needs to be changed. Myrealnamm's Alternate Account (talk) 18:54, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

New Growth Team feature

Hi Teahouse hosts, we're going to be trialling a new Growth Team Feature starting on Monday. You may see some unusual newbie behaviour or get some questions you've never had before. They're not sockpuppets! They're the new accounts that are being introduced to the new Add a link task. You'll be able to identify these edits easily, since they'll be tagged like this: (Tags: Visual edit, Newcomer task, Suggested: add links). It will also be possible to filter Recent Changes to see all edits suggested by this tool.

This feature helps spot likely places for new wikilinks and guides newcomers on how to add them and why. We're starting it really, really small - just 2% of all new accounts will get this feature in the first week - but the number will start rising over time. It should be a big improvement over the "add links" task we have now, which simply points newcomers at articles in Category:Articles with too few wikilinks. If you've ever added Template:Underlinked to an article only to come back a few hours later and find it overlinked to hell and back by a horde of well-meaning newbies, this is why. This new task is smarter, so we shouldn't see that kind of problem. But if we do notice that newcomers are adding bad links too often, or too many links, we can tinker with various settings that will impact this behaviour. And if this causes some kind of horrible unforseen problem, we can pause the experiment at any time.

More information here and here. -- asilvering (talk) 04:53, 25 November 2024 (UTC)

Appreciate the heads up! Sdkb ^talk 05:52, 25 November 2024 (UTC)

Fundraising season

I expect the usual number of questions about fundraising season, which starts soon. What do you all think about putting a big, neutral box/banner at the top to answer the usual questions (i.e., "Is this a hoax?" and "How do I get rid of this?")? Maybe something like this:

Alternatively, if there is a page on Wikipedia:How to hide fundraising banners, the second half could be replaced with a simple link to that. WhatamIdoing (talk) 22:37, 30 November 2024 (UTC)

The reply template {{WikiDonation}} addresses the most common concerns and objections but I think it's too wordy (or maybe some judicious bolding of text may help). If we're going to add a talk page banner we could try revising the WikiDonation text at the same time. I'm afraid not all visitors will even see or read a banner so we can't rely on that alone. ClaudineChionh (she/her · talk · contribs · email · global) 00:38, 1 December 2024 (UTC)

Um, @ClaudineChionh, were you aware that that message links to WP:DAILYDOT, which is not a very reputable source per WP:RSP, and to a user comment in an internet forum, which is outright banned by WP:V. I'm not convinced that good editors would be comfortable posting that if they realized what it was linking to. WhatamIdoing (talk) 00:43, 1 December 2024 (UTC)

WhatamIdoing: No – thank you for pointing that out, and what a great illustration of me just glazing over familiar-looking text! So fixing that reply template should be a priority. It shouldn't be hard to find better sources. — ClaudineChionh (she/her · talk · contribs · email · global) 00:54, 1 December 2024 (UTC)

For now, I've just removed the unreliable and self-published sources. WhatamIdoing (talk) 04:24, 28 December 2024 (UTC)

@WhatamIdoing: I have redirected "Wikipedia:How to hide..." to Wikipedia:Suppress display of the fundraising banner, but it looks like that page could use updating also. Rotideypoc41352 (talk · contribs) 17:05, 3 December 2024 (UTC)

Thanks! WhatamIdoing (talk) 19:19, 3 December 2024 (UTC)

I want to donate a small sum to Wikipedia but the link says Thank you for your interest in supporting the Wikimedia Foundation. We are not fundraising in your country at this time, but monetary contributions are not your only option for donating to and supporting Wikipedia. How can this be, I previously donated money for 1 cup of coffee (approx US$3) as a Wikipedia reader in the same country - India ? T3fg72zp (talk) 00:00, 4 December 2024 (UTC)

JBrungs (WMF) may be able to tell you something about the schedule. Fundraising is different in each country, and something as small as a delay in getting a contract approved, or needing to find an approved bank, can cause temporary disruptions. WhatamIdoing (talk) 00:52, 4 December 2024 (UTC)

Hi,

Thanks for the ping. To answer the India donation questions, we mentioned here that accepting payments in other countries involves navigating various technical and operational complexities for us as a U.S. nonprofit. Recently, we've experienced a payment processing issue with our existing provider and have temporarily removed the option for readers in India to donate. Let me know if I can help with anything else. Best, JBrungs (WMF) (talk) 06:03, 4 December 2024 (UTC)

Why is this protected?

I am a new editor and want to ask a question about Wikipedia. I can't do so if this page is protected. Lenderthrond (talk) 00:07, 1 December 2024 (UTC)

@Lenderthrond, it's fixed now, sorry about that. -- asilvering (talk) 00:19, 1 December 2024 (UTC)

I am also a new user and have to ask a very urgent question/s. The other page is still blocked. T3fg72zp (talk) 01:46, 2 December 2024 (UTC)

Hi T3fg72zp,

Hope you are doing well! What page are you referring too? I would be happy to answer any questions you have here, feel free to hit reply and ask and I will do my best to answer them!

I would also like to say that I think it is awesome that you are a lawyer!

Best, Luke Elaine Burke (talk) 01:51, 2 December 2024 (UTC)

This page (Wikipedia: Teahouse) and other help pages are the target of a long term abusive user (MAB); unfortunately lesser measures do not deter them which always leads to page protection. Untamed1910 (talk) 02:00, 2 December 2024 (UTC)

I would like to edit (remove/ update / modify) a certain incorrect sentence on a particular page which is semi-protected. The talk page of the concerned editor (who reinserted back that controversial sentence after it was deleted by a Wiki Admin) is also semi protected so I can't discuss with them. I need advice. T3fg72zp (talk) 02:07, 2 December 2024 (UTC)

Hi T3fg72zp, could you please reply to me with what the page is that you are trying to edit? If you could also include who the other user is and what sentance you are trying to change that would be great! Please feel free to ask any other questions and I would love to do my best to help!

Best, Luke Elaine Burke (talk) 02:10, 2 December 2024 (UTC)

If you are replying to me:

It is always best to assume good faith. I would encourage you to answer the newcomers asking for help via your talk page. I am well aware that this page is targeted.

Best, Luke Elaine Burke (talk) 02:08, 2 December 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for your assistance. The brief facts are these :- a) it is a single sentence in a very controversial article. Actually the sentence should not even be there. b) I would not like to edit the page directly because of "Streisand". c) Discussing it on the article talk page would bring in all the dramaboard regulars. d) The concerned editor seems a very sober and veteran editor, so I'm sure would appreciate my points and would delete it themselves. ie. if I could contact them, T3fg72zp (talk) 02:17, 2 December 2024 (UTC)

The place to talk about an issue on a particular page is the talk page for that page. You can also ask for changes to a protected page on Wikipedia:Requests for page protection#Current requests for edits to a protected page. You will have to say what you want changed somewhere or change it yourself. And if it is a controversial article, you can be sure that many editors will notice, and some will disagree. Anyway that is why a discussion is likely necessary. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 05:02, 2 December 2024 (UTC)

I have, unenthusiastically, s-protected the page again. Any admin thinking it wise to adjust or cancel the s-protection is free to do so without consulting me. -- Hoary (talk) 08:24, 2 December 2024 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 25 December 2024

Requesting to delete a repeated word: "...I recommend scouting scouting out stub articles..." (italicized emphasis mine to show the repeated word in question). Referenced quote may be found in section "Sandbox" added by User:Willzdawgh on 21 December 2024. Edit would read as follows: "I recommend scouting out stub articles..." Polophylax (talk) 17:42, 25 December 2024 (UTC)

 Not done: See WP:TPO - comments made here are internal project communication, so they don't need to be copy-edited or be up to publishing standards. Edit requests like this are usually made for protected pages in mainspace (pages without a prefix). FifthFive (talk) 20:54, 25 December 2024 (UTC)

Ok makes sense. Polophylax (talk) 03:43, 27 December 2024 (UTC)

rifles

ak47 ar15 and such are not assult rifles as assult is a verb and object can not be assult when someone commits a dui do you call it and assult vehicle or hits someone with a golf club are they assult clud. please remove assult from all rifles as it is false information and offencive. Ellric66 (talk) 22:04, 28 December 2024 (UTC)

Wikipedia summarizes what independent reliable sources say about a topic. If what such sources say offends you, please take that up with them. 331dot (talk) 22:16, 28 December 2024 (UTC)

@Ellric66: I think it is appropriate to provide a more "on point" response. In fact, the English-language Wikipedia has over 4,000 articles using either "assault rifle" or "assault weapon" (or their plural forms). (There are also a couple of dozen of articles where "assault" is misspelled as "assult".)

The fact that you do not recognize these forms of usage as valid suggests that you should not be pointing fingers at others for mechanical errors in language usage. Please be careful. Thanks! Fabrickator (talk) 22:57, 28 December 2024 (UTC)

Teahouse Semi-protected?

Isnt this affecting new editors from contributing in good faith? While i see the vandalism aspect, i do think that the semi protection here comes with a high price. Ayohama (talk) 07:24, 2 January 2025 (UTC)

@Ayohama yeah, this setup is bad, but it's necessary to prevent a certain LTA. New editors can still ask their questions here, which will be moved to the main page if they're in good faith. '''[[User:CanonNi]]''' (talk • contribs) 09:06, 2 January 2025 (UTC)

I've gone and boldly edited the header at the top of the page to reflect that. —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 22:32, 3 January 2025 (UTC)

Thanks, Tenryuu! I continued that trend and tried template magic that's supposed to switch the header text based on the protection level of the Teahouse, so the autoconfirmed part only shows up when it's protected (still learning template stuff, so please revert me if it breaks something – I only tested in my sandbox). We might want to consider alternatives to the "This is not the place to ask questions about Wikipedia" text at the top and in the editnotice as well, though. It might be easier to just remove that line, and maybe clearer too to use some sort of new editor language rather than "autoconfirmed" as non-autoconfirmed users are probably least likely to know that terminology. Perfect4th (talk) 20:09, 5 January 2025 (UTC)

It also stops this kind of junk appearing o the Teahouse's main page. A feature, not a bug... SerialNumber54129^{A New Face in Hell} 16:08, 5 January 2025 (UTC)

Striking a balance is key. Ayohama (talk) 17:16, 5 January 2025 (UTC)

All things being equal, not mucking around on Johannes Falkenberg may also be key. SerialNumber54129^{A New Face in Hell} 19:07, 5 January 2025 (UTC)

Request to review my translation of a French page

hi all, I somehow can not respond to your answers in my initial request earlier today of submitting my translation of this French page: https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lahcen_Ahansal to English (my draft): https://wiki.riteme.site/wiki/User:Emilie1111/Lahcen_Ahansal Thank you for your feedback. As per your suggestions, I have added several references and now submitted the page for review. In case someone can help with reviewing it, that would be much appreciated. In any case, thank you for your help. Emilie1111 (talk) 21:21, 5 January 2025 (UTC)

You have submitted it and it is pending. As noted at the top, it could take some time before it is reviewed. There isn't any way to speed this up, please be patient. 331dot (talk) 21:24, 5 January 2025 (UTC)

ok thank you so much for all your help! clear :) Emilie1111 (talk) 21:27, 5 January 2025 (UTC)

Call for mentors

Hello, Teahouse hosts and question-answerers! Are you friendly, know how to answer newcomer questions, and would be willing to have your talk page be a mini-Teahouse? Wikipedia talk:Growth Team features/Mentor list is currently having a discussion about expanding the number of new accounts that receive a mentor. Basically, only half of new editors currently get access to a module allowing them to ask questions to a more experienced user. We'd like to be able to roll that out to all new accounts, but we need a few more people to sign up as mentors first. The questions asked are mostly the stuff you usually see on the Teahouse, and there are some mentorship FAQs at Wikipedia:Growth Team features/Mentor list. I've also been a mentor for a couple of years and I'm happy to answer any questions that would nudge you to consider signing up here! Happy editing, Perfect4th (talk) 21:23, 7 January 2025 (UTC)

Dylan McCleary Music

hi would like to su a biography for a musician Dylanmcclearyy (talk) 19:19, 8 January 2025 (UTC)

@Dylanmcclearyy: I see you have created a draft on yourself at Draft:Dylan McCleary Music and that an Articles for Creation reviewer has reviewed it. Please note that Wikipedia is not a place to promote oneself and that writing about yourself is strongly discouraged. —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 19:23, 8 January 2025 (UTC)

Large empty space to the left of flush-right ToC and archives

 Courtesy demo link: Wikipedia:Teahouse/sandbox – (compare to the real Wikipedia:Teahouse page)

I am seeing a large empty space to the left of the flush-right ToC on my laptop; discussion content doesn't begin until the end of the (rather long) ToC and archives. Not sure how long it has been like this, but given that someone took the trouble to make them both flush right, it hardly seems like the right behavior. I made some sandbox changes which fix this behavior, but I am not at all familiar with these templates and prefer that someone familiar with it make the change, or at a minimum, look over the changes to make sure I'm not overlooking something. To see the proposed look-and-feel, please go to Wikipedia:Teahouse/sandbox.

The changes break down as follows:

• {{Teahouse questions navbox/sandbox}} : modified to change Q_header left-margin to 1.5em (Note: not used in the demo)
  • {{Teahouse questions navbox/testcases}} : modified to add following lorem ipsum to watch floating and wrapping behavior
• Wikipedia:Teahouse/Header/sandbox :
  1. Redo code with Html hierarchical structure using newlines and indenting; this should be functionally identical to the live version. (The dense version was too impenetrable to go through; this is much easier.)
  2. Comment out {{clear|class=thh-smallscreenclear}} – this doesn't appear to be needed; was there some reason for including this that I am not seeing?
  3. add 1.5em left margin on the div containing the __TOC__
• Wikipedia:Teahouse/Header/testcases – revamped this page entirely, and added a test specifically for float wrapping; this looks good, indicating that the locus of the problem is in Wikipedia:Teahouse/Header
• Wikipedia:Teahouse/sandbox – a new file to demo the change; consists of a truncated, non-archiving Teahouse copy:
  • rev. 1269115474^(permalink) of 03:21: a copy of Wikipedia:Teahouse revision 1269111215 of 02:49, 13 January 2025, all but the last five sections stripped off, and archiving disabled. In this version, the ToC and Archive box appear alone flush right, with no text to the left of them; i.e., no float wrapping
  • rev. 1269115592^(permalink) of 03:22 : same thing, but transcludes Wikipedia:Teahouse/Header/sandbox instead of Wikipedia:Teahouse/Header (diff). In this version, the ToC and Archive box appear flush right, with portions of the first discussion section to the left; i.e., float wrapping of discussion content next to the ToC as expected.

Because my changes to Wikipedia:Teahouse/Header/sandbox included my re-vamp of the template to redo indentation, a simple, previous-live-to-sandbox diff is not very useful. However, you can see the only substantive edit that changed its behavior in this diff (assuming you believe that my white space-only restructuring for readability was as harmless as I claim).

Note that my changes to {{Teahouse questions navbox/sandbox}} are not included in the demo, and appear not to be needed for the fix, and thus may be discarded. The part that gives me pause is the {{clear}} code I commented out in Wikipedia:Teahouse/Header/sandbox; I really didn't analyze that, and it's perfectly possible I may be missing something important. Yet, the demo page looks good, and if I haven't missed anything, then I think we should install the changes. Would appreciate some eyeballs on this from regulars of the templates involved. If you think it looks good and want to install it live, be my guest. Thanks, Mathglot (talk) 04:17, 13 January 2025 (UTC)

 Done. Absent objection, I went ahead and installed the change. Feedback welcome. Thanks, Mathglot (talk) 06:16, 17 January 2025 (UTC)

@Mathglot: My apologies for the stereotypical bringing up stuff after implementation rather than during the feedback window (though in my defense I'd originally meant to ask and forgot), but the change shifted the "Question forum", "Meet your hosts", "Articles to improve", and "Become a host" buttons to a vertical stack rather than a horizontal row and the padding, header size, and font have also changed slightly on my device. I may have missed something you said that explains it, so my apologies if so, but did you intend to include that? Or is it just on my device? Perfect4th (talk) 07:12, 17 January 2025 (UTC)

Perfect4th Not at all, I'm glad you caught. Thanks, I've rolled back and will take another look. Mathglot (talk) 08:24, 17 January 2025 (UTC)

Perfect4th, I've reinstalled it; can you check on your devices and let me know? Mathglot (talk) 08:43, 17 January 2025 (UTC)

Mathglot, looks good to me, thanks! Perfect4th (talk) 03:45, 18 January 2025 (UTC)

Should we place the big 'page protected' editnotice on the main (Teahouse) page as well?

Question is in the title. That's all. — AP 499D25 (talk) 03:17, 16 January 2025 (UTC)

I would say no; too off-putting and large there. However, I think it would be fair to add something like that to the edit notice, assuming a new editor can get that far; I'm not sure if they get to view the source but cannot edit it, or cannot even view it. If the latter, then probably they have no access to the edit notice, either. If it's possible, then one could use {{If autoconfirmed}} to only include the message for newer users. You might try asking about this at Wikipedia talk:Editnotice, adding a pointer there to this conversation as well.

Adding ping: AP 499D25. Mathglot (talk) 00:29, 17 January 2025 (UTC)

Indefinitely protect Teahouse

Moved from Wikipedia:Teahouse § Indefinitely protect Teahouse

Teahouse has been protected repeatedly since 2 January 2025, with the previous wave of protect-unprotect cycle happening in November 2024. Should we indefinitely (semi)protect Teahouse, to avoid any further back-and-forth protection waves? It's to prevent vandalism, sockpuppetry, LTA, and other problems in the future. And in case of continued abuse, should it also be upgraded to extended-confirmed, and even full protection? What should I do to protect this page? Should I make a request for protection? CreatorTheWikipedian2009 (talk) 18:53, 18 January 2025 (UTC)

Welcome to the Teahouse, CreatorTheWikipedian2009. Semi-protection prevents new editors from asking questions, so I don't believe that we should employ it for any longer than is necessary. Cordless Larry (talk) 19:09, 18 January 2025 (UTC)

So, should we just enforce a rule that repels vandals, sock puppets, and otherwise bad users? CreatorTheWikipedian2009 (talk) 19:23, 18 January 2025 (UTC)

@Cordless Larry Semi protection requires 4 days and 10 edits, its really not that much but helps deter casual and even moderate trolls since they dont want to wait 4 days. SimpleSubCubicGraph (talk) 19:51, 19 January 2025 (UTC)

Yes, I understand what page protection is and does, thanks. Cordless Larry (talk) 19:58, 19 January 2025 (UTC)

@CreatorTheWikipedian2009: Welcome to Wikipedia talk:Teahouse. Unfortunately, the Teahouse is supposed to be for new editors, most of whom won't have autoconfirmed rights. Upgrading it would definitely ruin the page's purpose. There's not much we can really do here.

As this topic is about the Teahouse's operations, anyone feel like moving it to the talk page? —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 19:26, 18 January 2025 (UTC)

Moved. Perfect4th (talk) 19:34, 18 January 2025 (UTC)

We cannot allow one or two disgruntled people to prevent the Teahouse from operating as intended. Immediately reverting trolling inappropriate edits is the main line of defense, and administrators can promptly block the new IPs as they pop up. Overprotection of the Teahouse is a mistake, in my view. Cullen328 (talk) 19:42, 18 January 2025 (UTC)

If it were an option then logged-in-protection for a longer period, not indefinite, might be the way. Anything heavier handed than that would be self defeating. -- D'n'B-📞 -- 19:44, 18 January 2025 (UTC)

I agree. But I'm afraid that continued protections may ruin the page's purpose, but showing the current condition, we'll leave the protection as it is. CreatorTheWikipedian2009 (talk) 20:32, 18 January 2025 (UTC)

The individual responsible for this(who is banned by the WMF, not just us) targets the help pages precisely to make things as miserable and difficult for us as possible, as they know they aren't going to be unbanned. Unfortunately vigilance is the only thing we can do. Sometimes they create socks or change IPs faster than we can block them, so protection is regrettably sometimes necessary, but I don't think it should be indef. 331dot (talk) 19:51, 18 January 2025 (UTC)

It's known that they are abusing a VPN service to do this, a la Nate Speed. This is why their IPs almost always get long-term blocks, either locally or globally. —Jéské Couriano v^_^v ^{threads critiques} 18:31, 19 January 2025 (UTC)

Minor listgap fix (please don't switch between asterisks and colons - it breaks screen readers, see MOS:LISTGAP). Now, for my comment - why is there no edit filter yet for this spam? I agree for not protecting the Teahouse indefinitely... but I also am quite shocked that this run of the mill spam that is always the same characters/format isn't yet blocked by an edit filter... -bɜ:ʳkənhɪmez | me | talk to me! 19:55, 18 January 2025 (UTC)

This is a WP:BEANS question, I'm afraid. -- asilvering (talk) 21:03, 18 January 2025 (UTC)

Multiple edit filters are in use. C F A 23:15, 18 January 2025 (UTC)

They structure their posts to beat the filters. 331dot (talk) 23:32, 18 January 2025 (UTC)

To not go into too much detail, the edit screen puts paid to the claim that it's "the same characters/format". —Jéské Couriano v^_^v ^{threads critiques} 18:30, 19 January 2025 (UTC)

Thanks all, I figured there were people smarter than me that had looked at it and considered it. I know there's limitations to how edit filters can work and at least people have been trying per CFA.

For the record, I'm against protecting indefinitely - if it needs to be protected for 4-8 hours at a time... or just watched and reverted quickly, so be it. -bɜ:ʳkənhɪmez | me | talk to me! 22:56, 19 January 2025 (UTC)

I'm personally of the opinion that even 4-8 hours is longer than necessary to deal with this particular problem. -- asilvering (talk) 23:49, 19 January 2025 (UTC)

No, that would defeat the entire purpose of the Teahouse. It would also give the LTA exactly what they want. C F A 23:15, 18 January 2025 (UTC)

The Teahouse should never be protected. It has enough watchers to quickly remove vandalism when it happens. HiLo48 (talk) 22:45, 19 January 2025 (UTC)