Wikipedia talk:Featured and good topic candidates

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Article inclusion on future Good Topic

A few of us are working towards a potential good topic on Doctor Who specials (2023). I suggested that the mini-episode "Destination: Skaro" should be included in this topic as it falls within the scope of the specials. The would-be primary page for the topic includes an episode table for the mini-episode, as well as brief information on its production, release, and novelization. It's also included as a link in two navboxes, {{Doctor Who episodes|N13b}} and {{Fourteenth Doctor stories}}, both of which, at this time, are limited in links to the three 2023 specials and the mini-episode. This leads me to believe that it should be included per WP:GT? points 1(B) and 1(C), and that excluding it (whether it's a good article at that time or not) leans towards failing 1(D).

@OlifanofmrTennant: said it shouldn't be included because mini-episodes weren't "historically" included in the series six good topic ("Space", "Time" and Night and the Doctor would be the relevant mini-episodes). I do disagree with the use of "historical" given that the aforementioned GT was just promoted in January. I also cited WP:OTHERCONTENT as a potential argument to move forward with it's inclusion in the 2023 specials and deal with series six at a later date, but that was shot down because it "usually applies to unrelated topics" (which is up for interpretation, because as they're part of the same programme, they are "unrelated" sets of episodes). Anyways, it could also be argued that the exclusion of "Space", "Time" and Night and the Doctor could also cause the topic to fail 1(D), but I'm not personally pushing for a delisting discussion at this moment.

That said, the only question I have at this time, is when we get to the point of nominating the Good Topic for 2023, should we include "Destination: Skaro"? (Pinging @Pokelego999: as the other main contributor to this future GT.) TheDoctorWho^Public (talk) 16:53, 14 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I personally have no preference either way. I do feel including them doesn't really have any compelling counter-arguments, so I feel it would be more comprehensive to include them, but I'm not too plussed if they end up being excluded from the GT. If we do decide to include the minisodes, I do feel we should focus on promoting Night and the Doctor in order to preserve the S6 GT, but that's a discussion for another day. Has one ever considered Magneton? Pokelego999 (talk) 20:58, 14 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

My question would be, would be be including these mini-episodes because there's a compelling reason for them to be included, or would it just be for the sake of completion? I've looked at the linked WP:GT page and 1(D) says There are no obvious gaps. I would content that leaving out the mini-episodes does not fail 1(D) because leaving them out doesn't create obvious gaps. Regarding series six, I was vaguely aware that there was some Comic Relief content at the time but I never saw it, and today is the first time I've learned the DVD-exclusive mini-episode exist. And yet, I've missed nothing by not having seem them. So for me, they're not obvious gaps. As for points 1(B) and 1(C), my reading of these is that while they suggest that the episodes can be included, they don't go far as to say they should be included. Therefore, I have a (weak) preference to leaving them out. But if the consensus goes the other way, I won't put up a fight. JustAnotherCompanion (talk) 21:52, 14 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Regarding 1(D), it specifically says "A topic must not cherry-pick only the best articles to become featured together." The mini-episodes are notable enough to have articles and are important enough to include in the templates. The Infobox quite literally includes them in the episode count "No. of episodes: 13 (+3 supplemental)" (or No. of episodes: 3 (+1 supplemental) for the 2023 specials). By choosing to exclude them, it just feels like very obvious cherry-picking to me. Essentially saying "they're only important enough to include as part of the season coverage but not in an overview topic on the season". Just because some people aren't aware of them doesn't mean they're not gaps in the topic. With over two million views on YouTube alone (likely more in the actual CIN broadcast), viewership on the mini-episode is on par with or has surpassed overnight viewership on some full episodes of Doctor Who. I wasn't aware that there was a Game of Thrones soundtrack yet it's still included in the relevant good topic. Regardless, I'm still not sure why the exclusion in series six automatically means we have to assume exclusion in the 2023 Specials when they could be handled on a case-by-case basis. TheDoctorWho (talk) 04:16, 15 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@TheDoctorWho: I think that the WP:OTHERSTUFF argument wouldnt necessarily apply here see Wikipedia:When to use or avoid "other stuff exists" arguments#Precedent in usage talks about consistancy in non-fiction articles. 2600:1700:3351:1610:DC03:7348:B967:408E (talk) 23:59, 26 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Not sure that specific instance applies here, it specifically says "Whether a given instance of something can serve as a precedent for some other instance must be decided by way of consensus." and we don't have a consensus to apply the "precedent" here. I specifically mentioned the OTHERSTUFF argument in response to another user saying they haven't been "historically" included, which I still disagree with given the RECENTISM of it's promotion. That said, regardless of whether or not it applies here, I still standby my statement that the exclusion would fail the good topic criteria. TheDoctorWho (talk) 03:35, 27 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I would not count the lack of a mini-sode as failing 1d, 1d mentions picking by quality when this is instead a clear topical difference. I don't think most people would expect a mini-sode to be a core part of a series. The article on Doctor Who specials (2023) does not, describing its topic as "three special episodes that aired between 25 November and 9 December 2023, to celebrate the programme's 60th anniversary". I don't see the harm of including it if anyone wants to, but it isn't an obvious gap. CMD (talk) 03:42, 27 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

My only major concern would be potentially getting series 6 demoted. Though if it is included I suggest adding the Fourteenth Doctor article. Questions? four Olifanofmrtennant (she/her) 17:47, 1 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I worry if you add Fourteenth Doctor it would create the precedent of series GTs needing to include their significant main cast, as well as their primary Doctor (Which would require a significant amount more work). Additionally, I'm not sure how much they're relevant towards their series' GT. Has one ever considered Magneton? Pokelego999 (talk) 21:53, 1 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I don't think that would necesarily the case, given that 14 is pretty much exlusive to the specials. Questions? four Olifanofmrtennant (she/her) 21:57, 1 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Taking credit for this IP. I was having connectivity issues which led me to be repeatedly signed out of my computer Questions? four Olifanofmrtennant (she/her) 14:53, 27 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Possible featured topic?

Hello, I'm new to featured topics, but all the lists of municipalities of Canada are at featured list status. There is no overarching municipalities in Canada page (although there is a list of lists), but I'm not sure that is necessary as municipalities are different depending on the province. Would this be a possible nomination? Mattximus (talk) 17:16, 17 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Newfoundland and Labrador

Northwest Territories

Mattximus (talk) 17:16, 17 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Lists of municipalities in Canada has a cool table, I don't see why this couldn't become a FL with general overviews of municipal types across Canada. List of the largest municipalities in Canada by population could also be a good inclusion. Reywas92^Talk 17:42, 17 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Lists of municipalities in Canada would probably be the best lead for a topic like this, goes well with the topic template. I'm pretty sure that list of lists are eligible for FL status. If someone got it done I don't see a problem with this potential topic. Idiosincrático (talk) 01:13, 18 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Need there be a main article?

Do good or featured topics need to have a "central" or "lead" article? For example, could, say, "Snakes of Ontario" be a good topic even if Snakes of Ontario doesn't exist? Thanks, Cremastra ‹ u — c › 21:26, 20 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

This would open the door for Teams' first-round picks in the NFL draft for me! Hey man im josh (talk) 02:57, 21 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Wouldn't the lead for that topic be List of first overall NFL draft picks? But to answer the question, yes it does its criteria 2a. To be properly defined as a topic you need a lead Questions? four Olifanofmrtennant (she/her) 03:42, 21 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@OlifanofmrTennant: Unfortunately no, I wish. That article just covers the very first pick of each draft, whereas the lists I'm referring to cover the entire first-round (all 32 of which are promoted). I've come to accept that grouping will never be its own topic unfortunately, but I just felt like making a tongue in cheek reply :P Hey man im josh (talk) 16:04, 21 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Mini episodes in series topics

The discussion above raised an interesting point about naming mini episodes in television series topics, which led to the inclusion of this article within this topic. This potentially sets an important precedent: should mini episodes be included in series/season topics?

Personally speaking, I'm inclined to say yes—"mini" or not, excluding episodes feels like an obvious gap per criteria 1(d). However, I know this could impact existing topics (for Doctor Who, series 7 has three eligible articles, and series 6 has two), so I figured it was worth discussing. – Rhain ☔ (he/him) 22:30, 26 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

My view hasn't really changed from the discussion you mentioned above. If they're notable enough for inclusion as a standalone article, excluding them easily fails 1(d).

As for the existing topics, the mini-episodes should ideally be improved where possible. If they can't be, perhaps they should be merged or deleted (which is technically a discussion for elsewhere). "Pond Life" for example only has three sources, all primary. There's practically no production, release, or reception info. That article wouldn't pass WP:NTV if it were a full episode, why is it passing as a mini-ep? TheDoctorWho (talk) 00:17, 27 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I feel as the consensus has grown to reflect the pro minisode inclusion. I will assume this starts the clock for Series 6 and 7 to be completed or be delisted and will move accordingly. Though I do feel that Pond Life does fail GNG and have sent it to AFD.

I will get to work Questions? four Olifanofmrtennant (she/her) 04:02, 27 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]