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Computing

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September 5

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Hi everyone, Thank you for any help you can give me. I'm a librarian trying to help a student, but I'm a bit stumped on this one. The student is wondering about creating a link to a specific part of a message board so people don't have to dig through potentially thousands of other messages to get there. Since I'm not an expert on this, I was looking for some here. For more context, here is what he was asking:

"I am having trouble making clickable url links that, when my readers click on them, do not take them to a whole message board, causing my readers to hunt through a bewildering array of messages before they can get to one I am referencing. Rather, I would like to make clickable url links that take my readers to a specific post on, say, a message board, or, perhaps, a post on a chain of social media posts. This would make things a whole lot easier on my readers. I have tried to figure out ways to do this myself, but have been unsuccessful so far. What do you think? Is it possible to set up a url link in a reference list that takes one's readers to a specific post on a message board, or a social media chain, or another online dialogic format?"

I hope my question makes sense, and thank you for any help you can give me, it is most appreciated! 2601:19B:681:9910:A8B6:5E5:B728:F523 (talk) 17:31, 5 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Whether you can create a direct link to a post in a message board is entirely dependent on the specific message board software or social media site the post is located on. Often a direct link is as simple as grabbing the address from the address bar of your browser while viewing the post, but that's isn't always possible. Occasional there will be an option on the post itself that will give you the correct address to link to it, but again this is dependent on the specific board being used. 161.11.160.60 (talk) 17:56, 5 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
If the web page itself does not have link locations build into the web page, you can link to specific text on a web page in most web browsers using a content highlight function like https://wiki.riteme.site/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Computing#:~:text=question%20is%20unclear (I am assuming Wikipedia won't mangle that). 75.136.148.8 (talk) 21:56, 5 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you very, very much! I really appreciate this feedback -- I'll share it with my student! Again, my appreciation. 204.13.46.20 (talk) 01:05, 6 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
See URI fragment -- Verbarson  talkedits 18:20, 8 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]



September 9

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Can't keep track.

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I've been using Google bookmarks on windows 10. I can't find a star or watchlist feature anywhere on the Wiki pages I visit. I signed up to edit once but I didn't proceed. Is there an easy way to keep track on Wikipedia itself? I'm a recurring donor. Deanprine (talk) 21:32, 9 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I have no idea about Google bookmarks. There is a watchlist feature. In the Wikipedia skin I use it is on the top right corner. The button has three horizontal lines and a star. You can add a page to the list with a star icon on the header of the page. This is probably better explained at Help:Watchlist. --Error (talk) 23:05, 9 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
As an aside, I imagine your browser has a History feature: Firefox has History > Show all history, with a search function which shows every Wikpedia page I have visited since 2021. By the way, when you donate through Wikipedia, you are actually giving your money to the Wikimedia Foundation (WMF), which provides the internet access and servers on which all Wikipedia projects run. The WMF is in no way short of cash. This might sound ungrateful, but we are mostly all entirely unpaid volunteers, and some of us object to WP being used as a front for donations to the WMF, over whose coffers we have no control whatsoever. MinorProphet (talk) 18:53, 10 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]


September 12

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Windows 11 24H2

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In this page I noticed that 24H2 is released for final users, but I still on 23H2 22631.4169. When 24H2 will be released? Gatto bianco (talk) 14:32, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

See Windows 11, version 24H2 and don't trust software from random web pages. 75.136.148.8 (talk) 12:33, 13 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
NO software in that page and this is NOT random web page, there are all Windows builds catalog! You have visited the page before comment? Gatto bianco (talk) 17:26, 13 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
You are misreading the comment. Do you have any clue how many people search "Windows 11 24H2 download" and download fake updates from random websites because they can't wait for the official release? Imagine how many saw your question, thought "Wow! New version of Windows! Let me download it from any link I find online because everyone offering free software on the internet is completely honest and has my best interests in mind!" 75.136.148.8 (talk) 22:19, 13 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]



September 16

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LaTeX backslash encoding

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"The not so short introduction to LaTeX 2e" tells the reader:

LaTeX supports the use of accents and special characters from many languages. Table 2.2 shows all sorts of accents being applied to the letter o. Naturally other letters work too.

The table shows them constructed via backslashes; so for example \"o produces ö. The same Table 2.2 also obligingly describes how to construct several o-irrelevant characters, such as å. But not all. (As an example, I happen to know something not in the table: \th produces þ.) Yes, the introduction goes on to say that now that "modern TEX engines [speak] UTF-8 natively" this cumbersome way of specifying characters can be avoided. Understood. But all the same I'd like to see a more comprehensive list or table of these recipes for single (Roman or Roman-derived) characters. Though we have an article "Percent-encoding", I can't find "backslash-encoding" here; and googling for this brings numerous pages on irrelevancies (notably how to produce backslashes that are just backslashes). Tips? -- Hoary (talk) 09:38, 16 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Does The Comprehensive LaTeX Symbol List help? --Wrongfilter (talk) 09:53, 16 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Blimey, Wrongfilter, I knew that a comprehensive list would be big, but I hadn't imagined that it would be that big. Excellent. This should answer all my questions, plus a few thousand more. -- Hoary (talk) 10:14, 16 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]


September 18

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Android move file

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I have a file in Downloads that I need to move to a folder used by the relevant app. However samsung's(?) "my files" app doesn't appear able to navigate to that folder.

How do I move the file using the phone itself and WITHOUT using a connected PC? -- 2A00:23CC:D222:4701:9DAE:549F:77B9:C1A3 (talk) 18:39, 18 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Do you see something called "internal storage"? The folder you want may be in there. If not, a different file manager may help.  Card Zero  (talk) 19:20, 18 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
"My Files" doesn't defaultedly list the desired destination, even though it lists internal storage.. -- SGBailey (talk) 21:35, 18 September 2024 (UTC) (I post logged on on PC and logged off on phone.)[reply]

September 19

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Science

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September 6

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Why is it called "stress energy tensor", although its components intended to refer to the energy - actually refer to the energy divided by the speed of light squared - i.e. actually refer to the (relativistic) mass? HOTmag (talk) 13:14, 6 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Check out the Stress-energy tensor#Components section where the components of the tensor are normal or shear stress, momentum or energy. The energy is the sum of energy and mass. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 21:55, 6 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
It seems that your last sentence contains some logical mistake. That's why I couldn't figure out your answer.
Anyway, don't you agree, that whenever any component of this tensor refers to the energy of a given body - this component actually refers to the energy divided by the speed of light squared - i.e. actually refers to the (relativistic) mass? HOTmag (talk) 18:49, 7 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Relativistic mass just is energy. The only difference is the units, and not even that if you use units in which the speed of light is 1. So it's a little hard to figure out what your question means. --Trovatore (talk) 18:43, 8 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

September 7

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Dilithium in real life

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The article about real-life dilithium has the potential to be quite interesting, but because of search result overlap with the Star Trek substance, it's difficult to nail down references on this topic. We could use some to establish - for example - if it's a gas at standard temperature and pressure, and if it's "stable", what its typical lifetime is. I would be interested if anyone could put their fingers on sources with this sort of info. -- Beland (talk) 08:22, 7 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

IIRC all the alkali metal dimers are known in the gas phase (not sure how much of the vapour is monatomic vs diatomic, though). But they will condense back into metallically bonded structures when cooled below the boiling point. Double sharp (talk) 08:25, 7 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Beland The general way to find decent references is to use Google Scholar. This search is a start and removes some hits from articles about a piece of software called dilithium by searching for co-occurence of that word with "lithium". Mike Turnbull (talk) 11:05, 7 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
You can also search in a standard search engine using its InChIKey, SMBQBQBNOXIFSF-UHFFFAOYSA-N Mike Turnbull (talk) 11:11, 7 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The search term "lithium dimer" also seems to work well. Double sharp (talk) 12:19, 7 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Excellent; thanks for the tips! -- Beland (talk) 16:28, 7 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Colour of radiation glow

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The description of this picture of actinium states that the blue comes from Cherenkov radiation, but I'm not sure can Cherenkov radiation produces other colours. --Nucleus hydro elemon (talk) 11:27, 7 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Actinium glows blue, curium glows purple, while radon glows yellow. What decides the glow colour of a radioactive element? Nucleus hydro elemon (talk) 11:27, 7 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Radioactive elements and their isotopes release, for example, alpha particles of various energies. These ionise surrounding material and the colours come from the ions relaxing back to their ground states. There is a chart which gives the energies (zoom in to the isotope of interest). Mike Turnbull (talk) 12:16, 7 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Two things about the image-caption details. First, our Cherenkov radiation article discusses the origin of the color via the Frank–Tamm formula. Second, is the glow from Cherenkov radiation or simple ionization? The linked image's description page says "the Cherenkov blue glow that originates from the ionization of surrounding air by alpha particles", which sounds like it's conflating those two. File:Actinium_sample_(31481701837).png's description, also from ORNL sources, simply says "ionization of surrounding air by alpha particles." DMacks (talk) 05:25, 9 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Effect of elevation on sunshine

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Sunshine duration says that locations on the Arctic Circle get 4,647 hours of sunshine (disregarding the effects of clouds), the most of any location worldwide due to the effects of atmospheric refraction. Imagine that Surtsey-type eruptions produce a new mountain in an ocean location on the Arctic Circle, and it's extremely high — say, 5000m. Disregarding the effects of clouds, will it get much more sunshine than locations at sea level? I assume it will get some more than those locations, since the sun's above the horizon longer for an elevated location, but I don't know how much longer. Nyttend (talk) 21:49, 7 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It doesn't have to be on the Arctic Circle, you could build a (thought experiment) 100,000 km tall tower on the Equator, and as the Earth rotated, the top of the tower would only briefly be in Earth's shadow, if at all. Abductive (reasoning) 05:14, 8 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Let denote the radius of the Earth (taken to be a sphere) and let stand for the obliquity of the ecliptic. Then, for the top of a tower erected at latitude to avoid the shadow cast by the earth day and year around, its height should be at least where and equals zero otherwise. [edited 11:27, 9 September 2024 (UTC); edited again 11:56, 10 September 2024 (UTC)]
  • At the Poles, with this comes out at about a mere 700 Burj Khalifas stacked on top of each other. This is the height of a Low Earth orbit, so the tower may be hit by satellites in polar orbit.
  • On the Arctic Circles, with the tower needs to be high.
  • In the tropics, from the Tropic of Cancer to the Tropic of Capricorn, where the tower needs to be infinitely high, which is impractical from an engineering point of view :).
 --Lambiam 09:40, 8 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I dunno if that makes sense. Consider Saturn's rings; they are often (always?) partly in shadow. But a tower on the axis will stick out into perpetual sunlight at a height much less than the rings. Abductive (reasoning) 14:55, 8 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I must have made a mistake; if had been zero (meaning that the equatorial and ecliptic planes coincide), any tower at a pole would always be in sunlight. Possibly, the fix is simply to replace by I can't examine this further right now.  --Lambiam 17:52, 8 September 2024 (UTC) — Now corrected and hopefully now correct.  --Lambiam 11:27, 9 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
But wait a minute. If at some point in the year the sun is directly overhead at noon (i.e. between the two tropics) then if the tower is normal to the geoid it's going to have to be very long, because at midnight sun-earth-tower form a straight line. This is analogous to a total solar eclipse, where the straight line is sun-moon-earth. But you can have annular eclipses because the sun is so much larger than the moon, and when the moon is beyond a certain distance we can "see over it" and catch a glimpse of the sun. As the sun is much bigger than the earth, the earth's shadow is not infinitely long and at some point the top of the tower must emerge from the gloom. 2A00:23D0:CCD:CE01:1197:733B:D027:4118 (talk) 15:27, 9 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Just like my calculation assumed a spherical Cow Earth, it assumed an infinitely distant Sun. Since we have total lunar eclipses, we know the Earth's shadow extends to far beyond the Moon's orbit. Ignoring the effect of sunlight being bent by our atmosphere, the shadow cone extends to 1.38 Tm, almost 1/100 of an astronomical unit.  --Lambiam 11:56, 10 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

September 8

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What is the systematic name for elements Z=(<100)?

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Like, is the systematic name of uranium Ennbium? Is the systematic name of fluorine Ennium? Is the systematic name of caesium Pentpentium? HAt 05:12, 8 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The rules for the systematic element names, approved by IUPAC in 1978, were designed solely for the purpose of assigning temporary names to unknown or not-yet-named chemical elements. Since all such elements have an atomic number greater than 100, the system only caters for such higher numbers, up to 999 (Ennennennium). The extension to other natural numbers for elements with IUPAC-approved names, while obvious, does not carry the IUPAC stamp of approval. Note that Nilium (a potential name for proton-free muonium or neutronium) and Quadium have already been given away.  --Lambiam 08:31, 8 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
In fact, the IUPAC rules only cover elements 101 onward, so technically even unnilnilium for fermium would not be IUPAC-approved. :) Double sharp (talk) 08:39, 8 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Given that atomic numbers are integers, "greater than 100" and "101 onward" have the same meaning here.  --Lambiam 09:43, 8 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Is there a specific name for the opposite of a virus?

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This is a terminology question about organisms, not diseases. In the grand scheme of things, there are two ways nucleic acid strings propagate themselves. In one, the nucleic acid string encodes enough information to build a cell with enough machinery to copy the nucleic acid string and make enough of the machinery to allow the cell to split, each with a copy of the nucleic acid string. In the second type, the nucleic acid string encodes a simple shell designed to penetrate the first type and hijack its machinery to copy itself and the shell. We have a very specific term, Virus, for the second type. Is there an equally specific term for the first type? Something better than "ordinary cell." --agr (talk) 18:10, 8 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Why would you expect there to be a word words for non-Virus, non-Archaea, non-Bacteria or non-Eukarya, meaning 'all the others except this one'? They are not really opposites. -- Verbarson  talkedits 20:31, 8 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
User:Verbarson, I thought "eukarya" had an opposite term, "prokaryote". Is that wrong somehow? Nyttend (talk) 07:47, 9 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I admit to not being an expert in this area. According to Prokaryote, cellular organisms can be divided either
  • into two domains (Prokaryote/Eukaryote) - in which case they may be 'opposites', though I don't know whether viruses fit in either half, or
  • into three domains (Bacteria/Archaea/Eukarya) - which again may not include viruses
I suppose if Prokaryotes include Bacteria, Archaea and viruses, then they function as the 'opposite' (in the sense of 'exclusive or') to Eukaryotes. I don't know of a term that covers Bacteria, Archaea and Eukarya but excludes viruses, which is what OP is seeking. (Apologies for my sloppy nomenclature to anyone who knows the definitions of these words!) -- Verbarson  talkedits 08:16, 9 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Viruses are not considered to be cellular.  --Lambiam 12:06, 9 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Re: "a term that covers Bacteria, Archaea, and Eukarya but excludes viruses": I think said term would be "life" (perhaps with the caveat "as we know it" appended). Viruses are biological entities, but do not meet the qualifications to be considered life. Though I think some, or maybe all, viruses are descended from various types of living organisms..some maybe from life during the RNA world age. 73.2.106.248 (talk) 01:57, 10 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Organism?  Card Zero  (talk) 00:59, 9 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
There is a name for this grouping of living things with cells: Cellularae proposed by H. P. Traub. There are also other lifelike things that are not viruses and don't have cells: viroids and Obelisk (biology) and prions.[1] — Preceding unsigned comment added by Graeme Bartlett (talkcontribs)
Maybe autocatalytic genes are in there too, the transposons. Sean.hoyland (talk) 09:20, 9 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

References

  1. ^ Luketa, Stefan (2012). "New views on the megaclassification of life". Protisology. 7 (4): 218–237.

September 9

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The photoelectric effect, but then outside of matter?

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When with an incident ray a photon of sufficient energy meets an electron it can eject it from matter. But outside of matter, we still have the probability that other photons meet this electron and orient its course in the direction of the radiation. Has this been observed? If yes or no, what is the explanation? Malypaet (talk) 09:20, 9 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Well in the ionosphere radiation ejects electrons from atmospheric molecules and then they can interact with radio waves. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 10:10, 9 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Compton scattering, the effect of the interaction of a photon and a charged particle, usually an electron, also applies to the interaction of photons and solitary electrons. If no energy is needed to release bound electrons, this form of scattering already occurs with low-energy photons and is then known as Thomson scattering.  --Lambiam 13:06, 9 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I read these articles, but what is missing is the notion of time. A radiation is a flow of energy (a rate), so an electron in a volume crossed by a radiation will experience a force in the direction of the radiation, as long as it is in this volume, ok. As it accelerates, it releases energy in the form of radiation (synchrotron effect?), so it loses acceleration. I suppose that the trajectory of the electron is a curve that brings it in the direction of the incident radiation? Do we know the equation of this curve? Malypaet (talk) 21:14, 9 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Acceleration is a change in velocity. In the scenario of a photon interacting with a free electron, the only change in velocity is at the moment of interaction. Before and after, in the absence of external forces, their velocities are constant.  --Lambiam 22:45, 9 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
How can you have an electron outside of matter?? PianoDan (talk) 03:31, 10 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I've interpreted this as "outside of other matter", that is, a solitary electron.  --Lambiam 08:17, 10 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
But in radiation that is a photon flow, there are more than one photon, so the probability that other photons successively (in time) hit the electron is not null. Then, in this term of probability, you can have a trajectory and a curve with a point in space and time for each interaction, isn't it? Malypaet (talk) 08:35, 10 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The trajectory will be more like a 3D random walk superimposed on a drift than a curve that can be described with an equation.  --Lambiam 08:42, 10 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks Malypaet (talk) 19:56, 10 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Rarest colour of a vertebrate?

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I've just been trying to think. There are lots that are black/brown/white and I can think of several yellow, green, blue and red vertebrate animals (mostly birds), but very few that are predominantly purple. Is this the rarest colour in nature? Iloveparrots (talk) 21:44, 9 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Transparent skin seems very rare to me, but with the recent tartrazine discovery it may become common. --Error (talk) 23:10, 9 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
left: azzurro; right: blu
One problem in addressing the question is that colour names cover a fuzzy region in a multi-dimensional space of colours. The 23 examples of purple vertebrates shown here display a wide range of purplish colours. For a reasonable comparison between named colours, the regions need to have similar sizes. The region we call "blue" is split in Italian into two regions considered to have different colours: azzurro and blu.  --Lambiam 23:24, 9 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Same in Russian. Dark blue is синий (siniy), and light blue is голубой (goluboy). -- Jack of Oz [pleasantries] 17:28, 10 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

September 10

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Recatquista

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In looking into my answer to Cat above, I stumbled on the quantum immortality article, and I feel dumber for having read it. I'm getting that it's premised on some mystic consciousness woo, but I still don't understand what the experimenter dying, or the experimenter understanding QM, has to do with anything. Or does the thought experiment just exclude hard materialists at its premise? SamuelRiv (talk) 04:23, 10 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The basic argument has nothing to do with consciousness. In the many worlds interpretation, a measurement that causes the wave function to collapse to a definite state actually makes the universe split into two: one for each of the two possible outcomes. Now imagine a qubit being measured again and again, until the outcome is 0. Each time there will be a branch in the tree of universes in which the outcome was 1, so there is a path in which the qubit never "dies". The death of a living organism is the result of many measurements eventually leading to its demise, but, analogously to the immortal qubit, there should be a path in which all outcomes are such that they keep the organism alive and, pace Tegmark, well.  --Lambiam 08:36, 10 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
In the article it says Tegmark's thought experiment "must be virtually certain to kill the experimenter" and "on a time scale shorter than that on which they can become aware of the outcome of the quantum measurement". I don't understand what this has to do with what you're saying about the MWI. It should be sufficient proof enough of MWI to simply have an experiment running measuring the spin of a random qubit that never ever measures 0 (or I guess to see an event in any known process whose expected duration is orders of magnitude smaller than the lifespan of the universe). Or, if personal experience is insisted, I don't see what dying, or instantaneous dying for that matter, has to do with 'traveling' so-to-speak through the many worlds. SamuelRiv (talk) 15:34, 10 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
In your universe the qubit may come up 0 while another version of you, in a sister universe, sees a 1. But that other you cannot communicate this outcome to your you.  --Lambiam 17:31, 10 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Ok? But if I instaneously kill myself I can?
I feel like there's a great deal of unarticulated premises about consciousness here that everyone in the article seems to know instinctually, but I am completely lost by. (Not that I can't sympathize, but that there are a lot of interpretations of spiritual consciousness and the self around the world, so I can't follow the logic of the argument until I know what premises they're using.) SamuelRiv (talk) 17:40, 10 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I think bringing in consciousness is a red herring. Everything would go just the same with philosophical zombies – the laws of physics don't care.  --Lambiam 17:48, 10 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Ok, so then could you explain Tegmark's reasoning in the article? I understand the laws of physics as far as I've studied them, but I'm trying to understand the argument as written (and maybe even salvage the article). SamuelRiv (talk) 17:57, 10 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
There isn't much to it. You have two people (let's make them people to make it easy). One is in the box. One is outside the box. The one in the box knows if he is alive or dead. The one outside the box doesn't know if the one inside the box is alive or dead and, therefore, must continue with the assumption that the person in the box is both alive and dead at the same time. What is being done that requires this? Let's assume that the person outside the box is filing taxes for the person inside the box. Is this the final tax statement for someone who is dead or a normal tax statement for someone who is alive? The person outside the box does not know and has to fill out both, one for someone who is dead and one for someone who is alive. Now, let's assume the person in the box is alive. He knows that the person outside the box is filing both and giggles to himself that he making the extra work. But, what if the person inside the box is dead? The person outside the box is treating him as if he is still alive... which is overhyped as "life after death." It isn't that the person in the box is alive. It is that the person outside tbe box is treating them as they are alive (and dead). The complication isn't in the concept of being alive and dead. The complication is in the quantum formulas that use the two states combined. 75.136.148.8 (talk) 17:18, 11 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry, but I'm not following what this has to do with Tegmark's 3 conditions in the article I linked at the beginning of this topic header (the question to which you immediately replied), or the subject of the quantum immortality/suicide generally? SamuelRiv (talk) 01:05, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Your reply suggests that the quantum state of the box is a definite one and that the issue is merely the lack of knowledge of outside observers. This is then in fact a local hidden-variable theory; such theories do not conform to the rules of quantum mechanics.  --Lambiam 06:33, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry, no red herring here. The consciousness is here what makes the superposition its own observer. The basic question is here "How do the equation of Schroedingers cat work if observer and observed are the same, especially if the observer could observe only one of the states?" (A dead observer can not observe) 176.0.144.43 (talk) 16:26, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Did you read the quantum immortality article? That's the subject of the question. This has nothing to do with Shroedinger's cat. SamuelRiv (talk) 16:32, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The first sentence in the lede links to Schroedingers cat. How does it not do have anything to do with Schroedingers cat under these circumstances? 176.0.152.191 (talk) 23:00, 15 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Voltage and speed of electrons

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For a resistance , a voltage and a current , with the relation , the electrical power is ​​. As is the intensity of the electron current in a section, that is to say the number of electrons that pass through this section per unit of time. Then should we consider that the number of circulating electrons is constant and proportional to , therefore with the intensity proportional to their speed which is then considered as the voltage, or a mixture between the number of circulating electrons and their speed? In the latter case what is the rule giving the relationship between the number and the speed of the electrons?
Malypaet (talk) 08:47, 10 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The concept that current flow is the same as electron flow is acceptable for learning about circuits, but it is not real. It is similar to using water flow to explain the concept of electricity. Electrons do move, but very slowly in comparison to electrial current flow. There are many websites and videos that explain the actual flow of electromagnetic waves through a circuit. If you ever happen to get into radio or microwave circuitry, understanding the electromagnetic nature of electricity is important. 12.116.29.106 (talk) 12:29, 10 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Your first sentence is entirely correct. Your second too, assuming that the current is carried by electrons, which is normally the case in solid or liquid metals. Then your question. I don't fully understand the question, in particular the part “the number of circulating electrons is constant and proportional to ”. Both the number of free electrons and the resistance are static properties of the circuit, independent of the voltage or current applied, but with both constant, you cannot say that one is proportional to the other. Otherwise, the answer to the question appears mostly yes, although it's worded in an uncommon way. If you increase voltage, the drift speed of the electrons increases, but the number of free electrons is constant (again, in a solid or liquid metal).
The density of free electrons (electrons per cubic metre) depends on the material used. In semiconductors, there's a strong temperature dependence too. The specific resistance (ohm-metre) also depends on the material and temperature. The current density (ampère per square metre) equals the free electron density (electrons per cubic metre) times the drift velocity (metres per second) times the electron charge ( coulomb per electron). The current density also equals the local electric field (volts per metre) divided by the specific resistance, none of which are constant throughout the circuit. All of that assuming that magnetic and electrostatic induction can be ignored (i.e., DC) and that electrons get up to speed in a negligible distance compared to the length scale of the circuit. PiusImpavidus (talk) 12:34, 10 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
One does not apply a voltage or a current, but only a voltage, which will then give a current depending on the circuit's resistance.
So I will clarify my question. I consider the resistance in a restricted circuit volume and having a certain section (elsewhere the resistance is zero), all in a solid. If I understand your answer correctly, the number of (free) electrons moving in the resistance is constant and it is the voltage divided by the resistance which gives the drift velocity of the electrons. I know that this current carries an electromagnetic wave, more precisely a flow of energy and at constant speed. So I am looking for the relationship between the current of the electrons whose number is fixed and the flow of electromagnetic energy whose speed is constant, which gives the equation . If the number of electrons is fixed, it seems logical to me that the voltage is proportional to their drift velocity (speed). Maxwell is for the energy on one side, and on the other, Ampere is for the electrons that carry this energy.
f the electrons do not move, there is no electromagnetic wave with its transport of energy. Malypaet (talk) 20:48, 10 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The electron drift velocity is proportional to the electric field which has the units volts/meter. See Drift velocity and Electron mobility. Our article Speed of electricity further calculates the medium-dependent electromagnetic wave velocities of their interactions. Modocc (talk) 13:01, 11 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks.
It confirms that the voltage and the speed of electrons are proportional. However, I am not sure that "drift velocity" is an appropriate term here because it is zero in an alternative current. It seems to me that the average instantaneous speed of the electrons is more appropriate. Malypaet (talk) 19:35, 11 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Kinds of Herability

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Is there one scientific-mathematical test to distinguish between different forms of genetical herability?
I mean, if a certrain phenotypic property is genetic during Mendel's rules or additiv or something? I wonder whether we are able to find out just by looking at the offsprings and the parent generation. 2A02:8071:60A0:92E0:25A6:B013:4618:1FCD (talk) 10:20, 10 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

When looking at individual organisms, you see phenotypes. The forms of heredity (biological inheritance) apply to genotypes. The relationship between genotype and phenotype is not straightforward. If the phenotypical statistics of the offspring of a couple form a typical Mendelian pattern, it is an indication that Mendelian inheritance is at play, but it is not a proof. And conversely, the absence of a typical Mendelian pattern need not mean the underlying genotypical inheritance is not Mendelian.  --Lambiam 17:45, 10 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Presumably you're referring to Heritability. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots16:28, 11 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The reference to Mendel's rules shows that the OP means heredity (aka inheritance), not heritability.  --Lambiam 17:14, 11 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
See below. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots18:54, 11 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
What is below? Did you review the article you linked? SamuelRiv (talk) 01:10, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
No, the point is that Lambiam stated the OP was asking about heredity, but it appears the OP was asking about heritability. Though it could be a language issue. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots02:06, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
There are different kinds of heritability. For instance one way via the rules of Mendelian; some properties are heritabil with additive effects and others with combinated effects.
The question is whether there is a methode to make clear via which way one given property is heredite. 2A02:8071:60A0:92E0:1465:9402:7F53:FBFB (talk) 18:24, 11 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Take a look at the diagram labeled "A ’Broken Stick’ Model" in the article Additive genetic effects. In general, the observed phenotypic variation is the combined effect of additive and non-additive effects. If it is known that the phenotypic variation is controlled by just a single gene, it is relatively easy to determine which variants the gene has and which variants, if any, are dominant or recessive with regard to their phenotypical expression. But control by just a single gene is exceptional; it implies that the phenotypes can be split into a limited number of discrete categories. The converse implication is not necessarily valid.  --Lambiam 06:19, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Does "narcissist personality disorder" contradict itself?

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I.e. labelling "excessibe grandiosity" using one person's name (fictional or not) achieves grandiosing that person (narcissus) thus communicates a double message? As in while the word "disorder" says "it is severe", the name of one person trivializes grandiosity. Thus it seems not quite medically consistent. Ybllaw (talk) 12:37, 10 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I fail to see how saying someone has narcissistic personality disorder (assuming that's what you mean) "achieves grandiosing that person". Do you mean to suggest the term is an oxymoron? No it isn't. Shantavira|feed me 12:59, 10 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
You misread what I said. Your comment "grandiosing that person" is not what I said. I said it grandioses "narcissus". I also didn't use the word "oxymoron". I think there is no need to introduxe extra terminology. My question was sufficiently clear. "No it isn't" is an unuseful/not very dilligent reply. Ybllaw (talk) 13:19, 10 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I said "grandiosing that person" about the (fictional) person whose name is used (narcissus), not a person diagnosed with NPD. Ybllaw (talk) 13:22, 10 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you for clarifying that you are referring to the mythological Narcissus. The capital letter makes all the difference. I still don't see how the label is grandiose. If anything it demeans him. Shantavira|feed me 14:22, 10 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Your sneering/snobbery about "capitalization" doesn't contribute to making this reference desk a welcoming place.
Grandness as I think to understand it doesn't mean "good" nor "bad", it means great, and a lot of attention is still making a person great, the same way a "great dictator" can be written about as great without being written about as "good". Ybllaw (talk) 12:41, 14 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
"My question was sufficiently clear." No, it wasn't. You have multiple spelling and grammar errors as well as just odd phrasings that make it very diffcult to understand what you are trying to ask.--User:Khajidha (talk) (contributions) 10:55, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
PS- Shantavira's "no, it isn't" was obviously in answer to the question of whether the phrase is an oxymoron.--User:Khajidha (talk) (contributions) 11:13, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
If you could spot my spelling errors than you admit that you knew what the words were that I intended, and thus didn't detract from the readability.
I never asked "whether the phrase is an oxymoron", you introduced that question.
As I have already said, the amount of effort in "no it isn't" makes your reply completely useless. That reply has NO educational value, it doesn't provide any tools that would enable me to understand an answer to my question, rather you have only encouraged me to blindly copy an answer without understanding anything about the reasons you see for that answer. Ybllaw (talk) 12:44, 14 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I for one did not understand the question as you had intended it. I thought that you used narcissus as a common noun for a person suffering from narcissistic personality disorder (although the term is usually used as a synonym of adonis).  --Lambiam 18:37, 14 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
You need to explain your concept of "grandiosing" before anyone can give you a satisfactory reply. We don't know what it means so we can't tell where to start. What are some synonyms, how does it trivialize grandiosity (someone's grandiosity? the quality of being grandiose itself?) to attach a name to the word "disorder"? HansVonStuttgart (talk) 09:52, 16 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

These definitions need to be kept in sight: Narcissus A fictional character in ancient Greek myth whose self admiration comically exceeded his common sense. We spell Narcissus with a capital first letter for no other reason than that his is a proper name. We derive from Narcissus by analogy (a relationship of resemblence) narcissism that is a personality style of unusually high preoccupation with oneself and one's own needs. Only when a narcissistic personality is so extreme as to impair mental well-being and Psychosocial development will it be declared a mental disorder, this called narcissistic personality disorder (NPD). I see nothing illogical or contradictory in this understanding of NPD. However the OP is here to argue an objection to the term NPD that is difficult to understand and proceeds quite combatively to take issue with every responder to their question.

Grandiosity is simply an unrealistic sense of unique superiority that is often present in NPD and is in no way a genuine achievement. It is meaningless to talk of grandiosing a third party when grandiosity is only what the NPD feels about themself. The language becomes confused if the real person with NPD is called "narcissus" or "Narcissus" which both seem merely rude. The OP snaps impolitely[3] at Shantaviraj who actually read the words "achieves grandiosing that person" correctly and attacks Shantaviraj for offering a tentative answer to the unclear question. The OP returning[4] just 3 minutes later to shore up their own thoughtless contradiction is what I qualify as a snapping behaviour. The OP's next accusation about "Your sneering/snobbery..." is calculated insult. I conclude that despite the best-effort responses from Shantaviraj, Khajidha, Lambiam and HansVonStuttgart this OP is not here to accept any help in the form of references that we could give and that further engagement on the OP's issue is a waste of time. Philvoids (talk) 12:40, 17 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I take "grandiosing" (not an existing word in English, though its formation is transparent) to be an error for 'aggrandising'. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 94.6.83.137 (talk) 14:46, 17 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Any observed similarity between Hero syndrome and FDIA?

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I read on the Hero syndrome page.. "The term is used to describe individuals who constantly seek appraisal for valiant or philanthropic acts, especially by creating a harmful situation which they then can resolve". Isn't that very similar to FDIA? There is no mention on the Hero syndrome page of FDIA.

The FDIA page even literally mentions.. "These proxies then gain personal attention and support by taking on this fictitious 'hero role' and receive positive attention from others, by appearing to care for and save their so-called sick child", but doesn't reference the Hero syndrome page either. Ybllaw (talk) 12:56, 10 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

A statement such as "A is a kind of B" requires a reliable source. One issue why such sources are hard to come by in this case may be that Factitious Disorder is a recognized disorder (300.19 in DSM-5, F68.1 in ICD-10), whereas "hero syndrome" is journalese and has no generally accepted diagnostic criteria.  --Lambiam 17:17, 10 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you for the answer. Is there not a lot of literature about hero syndrome? Some of the cases mentioned on the wikipedia page (e.g. a police officer setting a bomb to "be seen defusing it") seem quite high profile, I'd expect to be some literature about that. Ybllaw (talk) 12:51, 14 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I don't see much that makes the connection, but here is a directly relevant passage in a RS, a book by the title The Munchausen Complex: Socialization of Violence and Abuse:
In another manifestation of MSBP, a perpetrators will induce a condition in order to heroically “save” the victim thereby showing they are a concerned caretaker. Sometimes health care providers – including nurses of both sexes – do this. Their actions are considered a type of Munchausen Syndrome by Proxy. This phenomenon may very well be a distinct category of Munchausen that should be researched and redefined as Munchausen Malignant Hero Syndrome.[5]
The proposal of the last sentence does not appear to have gained traction.  --Lambiam 18:26, 14 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

September 12

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Kidney theft

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Can you tell me something about the kidney theft gangs working out of Southeast Asia? Having a discussion on a forum about them now. 146.200.107.107 (talk) 23:41, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Have you read Organ theft?-Gadfium (talk) 00:53, 13 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
What kidney theft gangs working out of Southeast Asia are those then? There are so many traffic fatalities in SEAsia that I'm surprised there would be a market for stolen kidneys. Sean.hoyland (talk) 04:17, 16 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

September 14

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Atomic electron transition time

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In Wikipedia article Atomic electron transition it is written that:
"The time scale of a quantum jump has not been measured experimentally",
why ?
Malypaet (talk) 12:07, 14 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Because nobody knows how to do it (or if they do, they cannot yet implement it in an experiment). An attosecond is a rather short time. The article lists the shortest laser light pulse created as 43 attoseconds, so that is the shortest time scale that is technically accessible at the moment. But if you have an idea, go for it. --Wrongfilter (talk) 12:35, 14 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
There may be a more fundamental reason. Such a measurement would necessarily (I think) require two observations, one essentially being that a some time t0 the transition has not yet taken place, the other that at a later time t1 the transition has now occurred. Such observations require an electromagnetic interaction, which will unavoidably disturb the observed system, in particular potentially causing the electron to behave differently. If there is some clever way around this fundamental issue, no one has thought of it.  --Lambiam 13:07, 14 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Apparently, to date, we do not have the tools precise enough for this measurement. On the other hand, the disturbance of the measurement can be anticipated and circumvented, as in this article measuring the delay of a photoemission by the 2023 Nobel Prize winner L'Huillier:
"The determination of photoemission time delays requires taking into account the measurement process, involving the interaction with a probing infrared field. This contribution can be estimated using a universal formula and is found to account for a substantial fraction of the measured delay."
In the past this delay was considered zero, today it is measured around 10 atoseconds.
So...
Malypaet (talk) 21:45, 14 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Malypaet, the imminent development of a practical Nuclear clock, which will be able to measure smaller intervals of time than any possible Atomic clock, may soon enable the precision necessary to measure quantum-jump timescales. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 94.6.83.137 (talk) 14:36, 17 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

How does one deal with equations with incorrect units?

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Specifically thinking this one, equation 31. It doesn't seem to yield a metric unit when you put in some values. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 16:52, 14 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Do you expect us to read and understand the entire paper up to that equation? Maybe you could help us a bit by summarising what the terms stand for, what their units are and why you think the entire equations do not yield "metric" units. --Wrongfilter (talk) 17:06, 14 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
It should. All the units in the paper are SI. Script-H in the paper should be heat flux (e.g. conductive thru a 2D surface i.e. an ice sheet), which will be in Joules per second per meter^2. Make sure to write down every step carefully, using the values given in the paper, including the table of constants. SamuelRiv (talk) 17:08, 14 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The problem is that the first equation after doing that insertion yields (kg^7*m^11)^(1/10) which is obviously wrong. JoJo Eumerus mobile (main talk) 18:48, 14 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Ok, I got it to work, to give delta H in meters. The one constant that seemed hidden in the paper was b, but it has the same dimensions as b0 (eqn A2). Also they don't give the Coriolis coefficient explicitly, but that has rad/sec (1/s) units. Apart from that, all the other constants should be in there. SamuelRiv (talk) 19:44, 14 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Is it the Coriolis coefficient rather than the rotation frequency? Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 09:02, 15 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, as defined after Eq. (10) of the paper, f represents the Coriolis coefficient, which is subsequently used in Eq. (31). Nanosci (talk) 16:30, 15 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

September 15

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the dual of polydactyly

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Polydactyly happens. But do people ever grow a finger with an extra joint? —Tamfang (talk) 05:44, 15 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Googling finger with an extra joint the first hit is our very own article Triphalangeal thumb. The first page of search results only mentions an extra crease on the little finger, with no underlying extra bones. But scroll down on the results, maybe you'll get lucky! 85.76.83.87 (talk) 14:54, 15 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Gull with injured foot

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Take a look at this video from a YouTube channel I follow. Steven the seagull injured her (yeah, Steven turned out to be female, but the name stuck anyway) foot somehow. Accident, fight, attack by a predator - whatever happened, the webbing between her toes got split. Does anyone know if that will grow back eventually? Iloveparrots (talk) 21:44, 15 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

From Regeneration (biology) § Aves (birds): Owing to a limited literature on the subject, birds are believed to have very limited regenerative abilities as adults. I was able to find an issue of a waterfowl newsletter with a picture of a duck's foot webbing, apparently torn and partially regrown. Based on this, I think it's very likely to grow back somewhat, but perhaps less likely to grow back completely. I'm rooting for Steven though! jlwoodwa (talk) 01:52, 16 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
She's been getting her foot doused with antiseptic and eats a REALLY good diet for an urban gull (fresh fish, fresh meat, mealworms daily), so she's in a better position than most. Iloveparrots (talk) 13:37, 16 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Presumably it could only heal if the split was mechanically sealed first. If the surfaces keep moving relative to each other or they get dirty I don't see how the split can heal. Shantavira|feed me 08:23, 16 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Reminds me of Paul Temple's wife! 2A00:23C5:E161:9200:D500:7967:3BC2:6E0B (talk) 10:04, 16 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I was thinking that it might grow back from the bottom outwards. Not really sure how it works in gulls, compared to us, if we split that thin bit of flesh between thumb and forefinger. Iloveparrots (talk) 13:34, 16 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]


September 18

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Is there any physical theory, claiming that every elementary particle can turn into some other elementary particle?

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HOTmag (talk) 13:05, 18 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Quarks are the only known particles whose electric charges are not integer multiples of the elementary charge. Therefore, in physical theories that accept both the Standard Model and the law of charge conservation, a quark cannot turn into another particle but a quark. But the types of quarks all have different masses, so all such quark–quark changes violate the law of conservation of mass.  --Lambiam 17:57, 18 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
If you are referring to a single elementary particle, so why didn't you mention the electron?
If that's because an electron colliding with a positron turns (together with the positron) into a pair of photons, then also a quark colliding with an anti-quark turns (together with the anti-qurk) into a pair of gluons.
But I'm not only asking about known particles, but rather about all possible particles, including those which haven't been discovered yet. HOTmag (talk) 18:21, 18 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

September 19

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Mathematics

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September 5

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Anomalous result

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Solve for x:

  • = x - 1.

Here's my approach, step by step:

  • Square both sides:
x + 1 = - 2x + 1
  • Cancel 1's:
x = - 2x
  • Collect x's:
- 3x = 0
  • Factorise:
x (x - 3) = 0
  • Solution:
x = 0 or 3.

So far, so good. Or so it seems.

Plug 3 back into the original equation:

  • = 3 - 1
  • = 2 = 3 - 1. Correct

Plug 0 back into the original equation:

  • = 0 - 1
  • = 1 =/= 0 - 1. Incorrect.

I've gone over this a dozen or more times but cannot see what really basic error I must be making.

Any ideas? -- Jack of Oz [pleasantries] 22:06, 5 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

You didn't do anything really wrong, but just discovered that 0 is an "Extraneous solution to the problem. As our article says, they "result from performing operations that are not invertible for some or all values of the variables involved, which prevents the chain of logical implications from being bidirectional."
The problem is that squaring is not a one-to-one function, so its inverse, square-rooting needs to be carefully defined. That is, -5 and 5 squared are both 25. So we must pick one of them as "the" square root if we want to define a function, something that spits out just one value "5" when fed "25". If we defined "square root" as Euler did and said either are square roots, then 0 is perfectly good solution. In modern terms it would amount to solving ± = x - 1John Z (talk) 23:19, 5 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
You proved that implies or Indeed, if (the only true solution), it is the case that or You appear to assume that the converse implication also holds, but this assumption is unwarranted. The false solution is introduced by the squaring operation; it adds solutions of the equation A simpler puzzle based on the same issue is the following:
  • Solve for the equation
  • Square both sides:
  • Plug for into the original equation:
  • What gives?
What we found is the solution of the equation  --Lambiam 23:17, 5 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Wow, that really is basic. But not obvious. I've been aware forever that the sq rt sign is always taken to be the positive root only of X unless modified by a - or ± in front; whereas, the words "the square root of X" mean both positive and negative roots. What I've never quite focussed on is the dangers of squaring, if I can put it that way. Squaring both sides of an equation is a tool we all learn early in our algebraic studies, but I don't remember this particular hazard ever being brought to my attention. But then, my most recent formal mathematical studies were in 1984 [before my younger son was born; he's now produced three grandchildren for me].
Thanks for a very enlightening set of answers. -- Jack of Oz [pleasantries] 20:16, 6 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Resolved

September 6

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Distance to a line segment

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I am unsure if this is better in Maths or in Computing, but I've chosen Maths.

In a standard planar (x,y) world, a line segment is defined by two endpoints P1=(x1,y1) and P2=(x2,y2).

A third point (anywhere, not necessarily off the line segment extension) is A=(xa,ya).

It is easy to calculate the distance from A to P1 and from A to P2. Sometimes one will be the answer for which part of the line segment is closest to A.

But if A is "perpendicularly within P1~P2", then the closest part of P1~P2 will be somewhere on that line segment.

Is there a standard algorithm for determining the coordinates of the closest part of the line segment to A?

--SGBailey (talk) 22:59, 6 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I don't know if it's "standard", but it's not too hard to work out. Let D be the square distance between P1 and P2, so D = (x2-x1)2 + (y2-y1)2. Let E be twice the (signed) area of the triangle P1P2A, so E = x1y2 - x1ya - x2y1 + x2ya + xay1 - xay2. Note that if D=0 then the result is undefined, if E=0 then the result is just A, if x1=x2 then y=ya, and if y1=y2 then x=xa; these facts can be used as checks. Then, using Cramer's rule and a few tricks I'm pretty sure I wouldn't be able to fully explain, I get x = xa + (y2-y1)E/D, y = ya - (x2-x1)E/D. Geometrically, you know that the vector PA is perpendicular to P1P2, which means P can be written A + mP1P2, where P1P2 is normal to P1P2; we can take this as (-(y2-y1), x2-x1). You can then solve for m by finding the area of the triangle P1P2A in two ways. Note that if you just want the distance to the line it's a lot easier, just divide twice the area of the triangle, |E|, by the length of the segment P1P2. I'm assuming here that you want the closest point to the line P1P2, since there's no guarantee that the result P will be between P1 and P2, and if not it technically won't be on the segment P1P2. --RDBury (talk) 05:51, 7 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Here is an analytic approach. The line through the distinct points and can be parametrically represented by
(The usual equation for the line can be obtained by eliminating from this equation.)
The vector connecting a generic point on the line to a point not on the line is then given by
The length of this vector is minimized when its square is, which is given by the quantity
Now solve for and substitute the result in the parametric equation and you have the coordinates of the nearest point. Note: if is on the line, this procedure may lead to division by zero.
(If done by hand, it helps to first rewrite the parametric equation as
Also, alternatively, to avoid differentiation, rewrite the equation for in the form The value of minimizing is then given by )
 --Lambiam 06:47, 7 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
One advantage to this method is that it works just as well in multiple dimensions. A more general version is: Given k points P1, ... Pk, and l points Q1, ... Ql in Rn, with k+l≤n-1, find a formula for the points P and Q where P is on the affine space determined by the Pi's, Q is on the affine space determined by the Qi's, and P and Q are a close as possible to each other. It might be easier if the affine planes were given by systems of equations instead of as affine hulls. --RDBury (talk) 07:31, 7 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
PS. It might be worth mentioning that when you solve for lambda, the resulting point P will be the one where AP⊥P1P2, so you're basically just proving what was assumed in the original question. This holds for any smooth curve and even smooth surfaces; if P is the closest point to A on a smooth curve/surface, then PA is perpendicular to the tangent line/plane at P. --RDBury (talk) 01:53, 9 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks. That is probably resolved, but I need to study the replies. -- SGBailey (talk) 18:02, 8 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]


September 11

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120 being the smallest highly composite number

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120 (number) says it is the "smallest highly composite number", but the OEIS contradicts this. Is there any definition of "highly composite number" that would make this true? Batrachoseps (talk) 02:29, 11 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It is specifically called the smallest highly composite number not adjacent to any prime. This is a true statement, if perhaps a bit confusingly phrased. Double sharp (talk) 03:08, 11 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I have rephrased the statement to clarify it. Double sharp (talk) 03:09, 11 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for rephrasing it. I had interpreted the sentence to mean "120 is the smallest highly composite number" and "120 is the first multiple of six with no adjacent prime number". Batrachoseps (talk) 03:12, 11 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]


September 13

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Prove or disprove: These numbers are composite for all n>=2 such that these numbers are positive

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Prove or disprove: These numbers are composite for all n>=2 such that these numbers are positive

118.170.47.16 (talk) 08:18, 13 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Re   #3:
Re   #4:
Re   #6:
Re   #7:
Re   #8:
Re #23:
Re #24:
Re #30:
Re #36:
These are all special cases of the difference of two nth powers.  --Lambiam 10:23, 13 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Do your own homework. SamuelRiv (talk) 15:34, 13 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Based on other posts with this type of number theoretic-focused content coming from IPs in the same geographic area (north Taiwan), I'm pretty sure this isn't meant to be homework. WP:CRUFT, perhaps, but this is the Reference Desk, and it seems to me that it's a lot less of an issue to have it here than elsewhere. GalacticShoe (talk) 16:52, 13 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
For all of these which are not listed as always composite or having a prime, I tested and didn't find any primes.
  1. Prime: is probably prime. Note that is divisible by when is even, when , and when , so when there is such a prime then . Thanks to RDBury for helping establish compositeness originally for .
  2. Unknown: is divisible by when is odd, when , and when , so if there is such a prime then .
  3. Always composite: can be factorized.
  4. Always composite: can be factorized.
  5. Always composite: is divisible by when is even, when , and when .
  6. Always composite: can be factorized.
  7. Always composite: can be factorized.
  8. Always composite: can be factorized.
  9. Unknown: is divisible by when is odd, when , when , and when , so if there is such a prime then .
  10. Unknown: is divisible by when is even, when , when , and when , so if there is such a prime then .
  11. Unknown: is divisible by when and when , and it becomes a difference of squares if is even, so if there is such a prime then .
  12. Always composite: is divisible by when is odd, and it becomes a difference of squares if is even.
  13. Unknown: is divisible by when is even, so if there is such a prime then is odd.
  14. Prime: is probably prime. Note that is divisible by when is odd and when , and it becomes a difference of cubes if , so when there is such a prime then .
  15. Always composite: is divisible by when is odd and when is even.
  16. Always composite: is divisible by when is odd, and it becomes a difference of squares if is even.
  17. Always composite: is divisible by when is odd and when is even.
  18. Always composite: can be factorized.
  19. Prime: is probably prime. Note that is divisible by when is even, when , when , when , when , and when , so when there is such a prime then .
  20. Prime: is probably prime. Note that is divisible by when is odd, when , and when , so when there is such a prime then .
  21. Prime: is probably prime. Note that is divisible by when is even, when , and when so when there is such a prime then .
  22. Always composite: is divisible by when is odd, and it becomes a difference of squares if is even.
  23. Always composite: can be factorized.
  24. Always composite: can be factorized.
  25. Always composite: is divisible by when is odd and when is even.
  26. Prime: is probably prime. Note that is divisible by when is odd, when , and when , so when there is such a prime then .
  27. Always composite: is divisible by when is odd and when is even.
  28. Always composite: is divisible by when is odd, and it becomes a difference of squares if is even.
  29. Always composite: is divisible by when is odd, and it becomes a difference of squares if is even.
  30. Always composite: can be factorized.
  31. Always composite: is divisible by when is odd and when is even.
  32. Always composite: is divisible by when is odd and when is even.
  33. Unknown: is divisible by when is odd, when , when , and when , so if there is such a prime then .
  34. Always composite: is divisible by when is odd, and it becomes a difference of squares if is even.
  35. Always composite: is divisible by when is odd and when is even.
  36. Always composite: can be factorized.
  37. Unknown: is divisible by when is odd, when , and when , so if there is such a prime then .
  38. Always composite: is divisible by when is odd and when is even.
  39. Unknown: is divisible by when is odd, when , and when , so if there is such a prime then .
  40. Always composite: is divisible by when is even, when , and when .
  41. Always composite: is divisible by when is odd, and it becomes a difference of squares if is even.
  42. Always composite: is divisible by when is odd, and it becomes a difference of squares if is even.
GalacticShoe (talk) 08:10, 15 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I'm guessing this is about the best one can do without actually discovering that some of the values are prime. I did some number crunching on the first sequence 5n+788 with n<1000. All have factors less than 10000 except for n = 87, 111, 147, 207, 231, 319, 351, 387, 471, 487, 499, 531, 547, 567, 591, 639, 687, 831, 919, 979. You can add more test primes to the list, for example if n%30 = 1 then 5n+788 is a multiple of 61, but nothing seems to eliminate all possible n. Wolfram Alpha says the smallest factor of 587+788 is 1231241858423, so it's probably not feasible to carry on without something more sophisticated than trial division. --RDBury (talk) 19:12, 15 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks, RDBury. I've been using Alpertron, it's good at rapidly factorizing or finding low prime factors. GalacticShoe (talk) 22:20, 15 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Lines carrying rays

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Not quite sure where to ask this but I decided to put it here. I apologize if this doesn't belong here.

I was recently reading about hyperbolic geometry and when reading the article Limiting parallel, I came across the statement "Distinct lines carrying limiting parallel rays do not meet." What exactly does it mean for a line to carry a ray? Is this standard mathematical terminology? TypoEater (talk) 18:14, 13 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, this is the place for such a question, though you might also complain at Talk:Limiting parallel that the phrase is unclear. —Tamfang (talk) 22:51, 13 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I find the whole article unclear and confusing. Is it me?  --Lambiam 23:54, 13 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]


September 16

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Geographical almost-centres and Croatia

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Given the country's unusual shape, Croatia's geographical centre is rather awkwardly placed; if you Google <croatia geographical centre> you get lots of forums and similar content discussing the idea that its centre is actually outside the country, in western Bosnia and Herzegovina. From this I'm left wondering: (1) Are there any reliable sources for this claim? I couldn't find any. If so, it would be a good addition to geography of Croatia. (2) The geographical centre article discusses different methods of calculating the geographical centre of a region and the potential problems resulting therefrom. If Croatia's centre really can be defined to be in Bosnia, do all definitions put it there, or do some definitions put it in Croatia? (3) Is there any concept of most-centred-within-boundary? [This is the biggest reason I came to the Maths desk; I'm wondering if topologists would care about it?] Let us assume that Croatia's centre is outside Croatia: is there a term that refers to the Croatian location that is least-off-centre? It wouldn't necessarily be the Croatian location closest to the centre (imagine a narrow salient that would be closest but severely off-centre), but I suppose it could. I'm thinking of the point where, if you balanced a flat map of Croatia on it, the map would topple most slowly. Obviously some points are better than others — a point at the country's southern tip would be worse than places farther northwest — so I wonder if it's reasonable to define the best place when no place is ideal. Nyttend (talk) 07:51, 16 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

PS, imagine Croatia like a balancing bird toy. If you broke off the bird's head, you probably couldn't balance it at all, but you'd do a lot better balancing on the body (or even the tail) than at the wingtips. Croatia lacks the "bird head", but you're probably better-off balancing in the northwest than anywhere else. Nyttend (talk) 07:55, 16 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

There was a discussion not that long ago here: Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Miscellaneous/2024 July 18 § Lake Lats and Longs. It contains, at least implicitly, answers to some of the questions. Since the notion of centre is not well-defined, neither is that of "least off-centre". The location nearest to a given point outside the area is on its boundary. The interior point furthest from the boundary works for most actual country shapes, including Croatia, for which this is a point roughly 20 km east of zagreb. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Lambiam (talkcontribs) 16:06, 16 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The visual center and algorithms to approximate the pole of inaccessibility are discussed in this 2016 Mapbox post. I thought that if you'd include just a spherical geometry of the Earth you'd get even more interesting questions, but it appears at a glance (? not sure?) the algorithm in the link already generalizes nicely to noneuclidean geometries and higher dimensions. SamuelRiv (talk) 17:46, 16 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Through any point on Earth there is (by the mean value theorem) a great circle that bisects the population of Croatia. Among such circles, consider the segments that cut the territory of Croatia into exactly two pieces. I propose the midpoint of the shortest such segment as a centre. (shamelessly OR) —Tamfang (talk) 01:29, 18 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
If the border of Croatia is sufficiently fractal-like, there may be no great circle that cuts the area into just two connected pieces.  --Lambiam 09:19, 18 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Doesn't need to be fractal; a C-shape with overlapping ends (ie a spiral with just over a full turn) can't be halved (by area) into only two pieces by an infinite straight line. There may be a coral atoll somewhere that approaches this? 213.143.143.69 (talk) 12:37, 18 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
There's quite a few simply connected shapes that create uncomfortable solutions for this algorithm (so far splitting 3+ pieces, you can also just have a wide lobe with two long thin tails side-by-side; the shortest area or even-population bisector straight line would have to cut through both tails; the longer unbroken line that cuts the lobe can be stopped by making the lobe an S-turn; which can only be resolved (to retain contiguity) by removing the requirement of a great circle.
(The spiral atoll example need not be a problem, since the great circle need not be required to cut through the entire atoll, but just one segment.)
It's a good idea, but it needs a bit more refinement to get a sensible-and-unique definition in all cases. SamuelRiv (talk) 16:32, 18 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]


September 19

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Humanities

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September 5

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Egyptian staves, rods, and sceptres

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Other than the was, how many named Egyptian staffs are there? As a matter of interest, there are Burkinabe dead ringers for the was sceptre in “Land of the Flying Masks: Art and Culture in Burkina Faso” by Wheelock and Roy, objects 237-8. Temerarius (talk) 00:35, 5 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

See Ancient Egypt Online - Royal Emblems. Alansplodge (talk) 17:33, 5 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Athlete's signature moves

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Modern international athletics has a great deal of television coverage, When the athletes are introduced before a race/ competition and the cameras fall on them, many perform a signature move that usually involves hand gestures and/ or a whole-body pose. Is there a name for these? The well-known Mo Farah#"Mobot" and the lightning bolt were examples of "victory poses", struck after the event. But what are these pre-competition poses called? Thanks. 86.175.173.28 (talk) 19:44, 5 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I thought Usain Bolt's signature move was firing an imaginary arrow from an imaginary bow (plenty of photos of it on Google Images if you search "usain bolt archery pose"), but it doesn't seem to be mentioned on the article. Noah Lyles did a lot of jumping up and down before the 100 meter race in Paris, but I don't know if that was a move or just letting off energy. I'm not sure that I saw a lot of personally-specific gesturing before events in the Paris coverage, just smiling or waving for the camera, Catholics doing the Sign of the Cross, etc. AnonMoos (talk) 23:29, 5 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Showboating:the term "showboat" became slang for someone who wants ostentatious behavior to be seen at all costs. This term is particularly applied in sports, where a showboat (or sometimes "showboater") will do something flashy before (or even instead of) actually achieving his or her goal. The word is also used as a verb. British television show Soccer AM has a section named "Showboat", dedicated to flashy tricks from the past week's games.
I came to the term through https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/1825101/2020/05/26/the-simpsons-25-top-sports-episodes/ and Homer and Ned's Hail Mary Pass
--Error (talk) 18:07, 6 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, it's mostly on the track, isn't it. Where they're all getting lined up for the 400 metres, 800 metres, something like that? It looks like these guys have been hangin' an' chillin' too long with the dog and dem nigz. Even the blond Scandanavian ones. You expect them to say something like "Fo' Shizzle ma nizzle" or "check it, Mutha", before they take to the blocks? Quite disconcerting. Martinevans123 (talk) 19:33, 6 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Help me!

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Lincoln is believed to have said this:

After all, it was Abraham Lincoln himself who proclaimed on June 2, 1861, that "The problem with information that you read on the Internet is that it is not always true."

This makes no sense because there was no such thing as the Internet for more than a century after that. The Internet began in 1969. What is this supposed to mean?? Georgia guy (talk) 22:08, 5 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It's a meme. It is supposed to represent the fact that you can't believe everything written on the Internet...including things Lincoln said. Knitsey (talk) 22:16, 5 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
You can buy fake historical markers, metal plaques with the text: "On March 2, 1836 Texas declared her independence from Mexico. Wild Comanches roamed the plains, Rangers protected frontier settlements, and this building was not here yet." -- AnonMoos (talk) 23:33, 5 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
It wasn't President Abraham Lincoln. It was Abraham Lincoln (time traveler). (What, no article?) Clarityfiend (talk) 23:59, 5 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Strange things keep happening to editors who create one. —Tamfang (talk) 01:21, 6 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I hope this is in no way a serious question. But if it is, the OP might find himself the subject of a meme. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots00:10, 6 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Such as item 15 on this list:[6]Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots01:30, 6 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
That quote is a common misattribution; it originated from Mark Twain* Oscar Wilde.
*"I never said that." --Mark Twain 136.54.237.174 (talk) 13:31, 6 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

"I really didn't say everything I said" -- Yogi Berra. AndyTheGrump (talk) 21:25, 7 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Has the word "meme" replaced the word "joke" in 2024? The kernel of truth in the joke/meme is that Lincoln was an enthusiastic user of the telegraph during the American Civil War, and the telegraph was the earliest form of instant network communication over long distances that eventually led to the internet over a century later. Here's more information. Cullen328 (talk) 16:29, 8 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The telegrams Lincoln was interested in were from U.S. military people and eyewitness war correspondents. Not sure how relevant that is to sifting through unverified information from random unknown people, which is the characteristic of the Internet age... AnonMoos (talk) 17:53, 8 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
If you look into Lincoln's relationships with his generals, you can see that he was very interested in sorting out poor quality telegrams from better ones. A big part of the reason that Lincoln fired George McClellan as Commanding General of the U.S. Army is because McClellan's telegrams to Lincoln were inaccurate, evasive and dismissive. Part of the reason that Lincoln backed Ulysses Grant so enthusiastically as Commanding General toward the end of the war is that Grant's telegrams to Lincoln were responsive, accurate and respectful, and that Grant carried out Lincoln's strategic vision that was communicated to his generals largely by telegram. Plus, Grant was racking up major victories. Cullen328 (talk) 03:16, 9 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Starcky tablet

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The item is listed "possibly" from Al-Safira on KAI texts, was it not from a secure archaeological context? https://doi.org/10.3406%2Fsyria.1960.5506 And does anyone have better pics than the old black-and-white ones for the other Sefire steles? They're hard to compare. Temerarius (talk) 23:03, 5 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I don't have specific knowledge of the item, but from what I have read, a great many artifacts in the Middle East (and doubtless elsewhere) are illegally excavated (or stolen) and sold on the black market, necessarily without secure provenance - greatly reducing their archeological value, of course. Some of these eventually reach the hands of bona fide scholars, but many are reluctant to even refer to them because they fear it will encourage more thefts.
In some cases, it may be possible by various methods, such as soil analysis, matching of other known fragments, etc., to show where such an artifact likely came from. The long-missing 10th ossuary from the Talpiot tomb, recently shown by soil-residue analysis to be the controversial James Ossuary, is a case in point. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 94.6.83.137 (talk) 04:22, 6 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

September 6

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Can someone help find an obituary for Radha Charan Gupta?

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According to User:Yadavjp and an IP editor, the Indian historian of mathematics Radha Charan Gupta died today in New Dehli. Can someone help me find an obituary or other public source confirming this? –jacobolus (t) 06:54, 6 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

https://www.news18.com/education-career/doyen-of-vedic-mathematics-professor-radha-charan-gupta-dies-bundelkhand-university-mourns-9041338.html reports this, but not the site of death. --Soman (talk) 16:34, 6 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks. I think this is a translation of the article in Hindi that an IP editor added to the article after I posted this request. (I think they came from here.) I'll cite this one as well, pending probably more complete obituaries to come over the coming days and weeks. (Also it seems he died at home in Jhansi.) –jacobolus (t)jacobolus (t) 16:40, 6 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
By the way, if anyone wants to help I threw this on Wikipedia:In the news/Candidates#RD: Radha Charan Gupta yesterday but got no replies. I'm not really familiar with how the "in the news" section works, but Gupta seems like the kind of person worth mentioning among the recent deaths. –jacobolus (t) 03:04, 8 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
There is a preference (I think) to highlight on the Main Page only articles of a good standard (though not necessarily only those rated as WP:GA). Radha Charan Gupta is fairly short (though not a stub) and is currently rated 'Start-class', which may perhaps need revisiting.
If anyone has the expertise and time to rapidly expand the Article, it would probably improve its candidacy for 'In the news.' {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 94.6.83.137 (talk) 11:43, 8 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
jacobolus, see this Times of India obituary. Alansplodge (talk) 08:56, 9 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks! –jacobolus (t) 14:23, 9 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

NGO inclusion

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I always hear people say "NGO" to describe an organization. Are organizations such as Girl Scouts of the USA and Science Olympiad considered NGOs? 172.56.164.27 (talk) 16:57, 6 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Non-governmental organization: While there is no fixed or formal definition for what NGOs are, they are generally defined as nonprofit entities that are independent of governmental influence—although they may receive government funding.[11] According to the UN Department of Global Communications, an NGO is "a not-for profit, voluntary citizen's group that is organized on a local, national or international level to address issues in support of the public good".[5] The term NGO is used inconsistently, and is sometimes used synonymously with civil society organization (CSO), which is any association founded by citizens.[12] In some countries, NGOs are known as nonprofit organizations while political parties and trade unions are sometimes considered NGOs as well.[13]
--Error (talk) 17:52, 6 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

September 7

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Leander ships?

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On Spanish wikipedia article es:Leander it mentioned that the ship was finished in 1799, with data consistent with [7]. We have an article on Leander (1799 ship). Is this the same ship? The Spanish article has nothing between 1799-1803, the English article has nothing beyond 1801. -- Soman (talk) 11:55, 7 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Not sure, but I have posted a message at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Ships#Leander 1799 query in the hope that the experts there can solve the conundrum. Alansplodge (talk) 12:11, 7 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
It seems unlikely. I cannot read Spanish fluently, but the ship in the Spanish article appears to have been built in Greenock, Scotland, and had a 200 ton displacement, while that in this Wikipedia was built on the Thames and had a 429 or 439 ton displacement. Other details also appear to differ. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 94.6.83.137 (talk) 21:01, 7 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, definitely different ships. They both appear in Lloyd's Register 1801 here (along with a third, built in Sunderland, also in 1799). - Davidships (talk) 02:00, 11 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Clydeships has an entry for the Leander on es-wiki. Deleted from registers in 1813. Mjroots (talk) 07:08, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

September 8

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Motherfucker in myth

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Have there been any academic monographs or papers on the concept in myth (eg Egyptian "ka mut-f", the "bull of his mother") or history (eg 1 Corinthians 5)? The term is today energetic yet meaningless; in the past not so. Temerarius (talk) 15:59, 8 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The "his father's wife" in the Bible passage presumably refers to his STEP-mother. I bet there's a huge literature on Oedipus, from Greek plays to Freud etc etc. AnonMoos (talk) 18:09, 8 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oedipus reflected cultural anxiety about eventual incest risk from infant exposure (not resulting in death,) which was a legitimate concern at the time. That and the later Freudian ideas were quite isolated from the mythic phenomenon. And quite unlike eg Xwedodah.
Temerarius (talk) 01:30, 9 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

September 9

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Harry Potter sorting hat

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The sorting hat classified incoming Hogwarts students as brave (Gryffindor), hardworking (Hufflepuff), intellectually curious (Ravenclaw), or ambitious (Slytherin). Maybe I'm reading too much fanfiction but I find myself applying those patterns to real life, e.g. "such-and-such jerk [politician or tech tycoon] is a real Slytherin".

Just how stupid is this? Some other schemes like Myers-Briggs are considered bogus but I see there are mappings online between that and Hogwarts houses.(personalityunleashed.com/16-personality-types-as-hogwarts-houses/) On the other hand, the five factor model is for some reason taken more seriously. Is there any reason to think Rowling was actually onto something with the sorting hat? E.g. does it reflect any known research before or after? For that matter is the whole industry of personality classification bogus? Four temperaments has some other schemes listed that I haven't looked into yet. It's hard to navigate web search results about Harry Potter because of all the merchandising that it finds. Thanks. 2601:644:8581:75B0:0:0:0:8C8A (talk) 18:54, 9 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

ALL politicians are Slytherin. Blueboar (talk) 19:22, 9 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, that occurred to me too. I've thought sometimes there are a few rare exceptions, but that is probably naive. 2601:644:8581:75B0:0:0:0:8C8A (talk) 22:38, 9 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Certainly not all when they start their careers; many are driven by ideals rather than ambition. But those that do not nourish the Slytherin aspect of their (presumably pluripotent) personalities will usually not survive for long in the political ecosystem, so there is an effective sieve.  --Lambiam 23:39, 9 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The categories are not mutually exclusive; I know more than a few people who are both hardworking and intellectually curious. And some folks fit in none of these categories yet are good people. We probably all know people that fit well in one of these prototypes, but I can think of many other prototypical categories: shy; indecisive; entitled and quarrelsome; nurturing; self-effacing. Rowling's categories are merely four spots in a vast sea of possibilities, deftly chosen because they serve the narrative well.  --Lambiam 00:03, 10 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
People are famously complicated and categorizing them to ease the mental burden of understanding them is a perennial impulse. Unfortunately, these simplifications are always wrong and often harmful. "There are x kinds of people" isn't a something you hear from Plotinus and Wittgenstein, rather t-shirts. Rowling's now cemented legacy shows her dumber than a t-shirt: she made her eponymous a cop and she made herself a common hatemonger.
Temerarius (talk) 02:02, 10 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The hat doesn't say each person belongs in exactly one category. Rather, each house requires certain attributes, and students with the attributes for than one house can discuss that with the hat and make their own choice, but of course they retain the attributes. Harry Potter in the JKR books was seen as both courageous and capable of greatness, so the hat offered him Slytherin and Gryffindor. Yeah JKR is looking feeble these days, but even when the HP books were first published, they weren't very good. I read the first few of them and gave up. I find that lots of HP fanfiction is simply better than the Rowling books. Re politicians I'd say e.g. Trump is Slytherin but also has some Gryffindor attributes. I mean the guy is brazen. 2601:644:8581:75B0:0:0:0:8C8A (talk) 03:06, 10 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
So according to you, anyone who stands up for the rights of women (in sports, prisons etc) is a "common hatemonger"? That's certainly a point of view. And whatever Rowling's literary merits or demerits, she got millions of tween and teen boys reading, when otherwise they would have been playing videogames. Meanwhile, someone who has read the first third of the first Harry Potter book should know that Rowling was not setting up four mutually-exclusive categories -- as the anonynmous IP mentioned, the Sorting Hat said Harry could go into either Gryffindor or Slytherin, and seemed to be leaning a little toward Slytherin (but Harry strongly preferred Gryffindor)... AnonMoos (talk) 18:47, 10 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
iirc the hat also made ludicrously bad mistakes, despite portraying itself as infallible. The whole "your fate is sealed, but the guy deciding fate is a bit insane" thing is a pretty common British childrens lit trope, as is especially the horrific-orphan-origins-with-abusive-adopted family thing. SamuelRiv (talk) 02:03, 11 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
There do exist personality tests in psychology, with actual "sorting" of sorts. A bit of an overview of the tests that I found for free on NIH from Silverman. For example, you can see all the things MMPI has been adjusted and re-adjusted to have as its personality axes. There's also the Rorschach Test, which is not supposed to measure anything about how you think, but just to place you into population buckets (and that's pretty much what all clinical personality tests are doing, and arguably what all population-calibrated tests do in general). Then those population buckets are correlated to quite a bit of medically relevant information, like pharmacological response or prognosis, which can hopefully guide treatment.
It's not destiny, and it says little to nothing about your actual personality -- it's just that your honest score on a psychology test groups you with population A, and population A is correlated to study subpopulation outcomes X, and importantly the test is shown to be predictive and stable. Contrast those statistically important criteria that validate the tests above to, say, what has been determined about Myers–Briggs Type Indicator testing, and hopefully you'll start to get a feel for what "real" vs "fake" "personality testing" is supposed to do (afaiu). SamuelRiv (talk) 03:30, 10 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Provinces of French Algeria

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During the later years of French Algeria, was the region divided into provinces, or was it merely regions and departments like in the rest of France? The French Algeria article doesn't use the word "province" except for an event in 1847, and its "Government and administration" section doesn't really address geographic subdivisions. Departments_of_France#Former_departments mentions several in Algeria, but I'm unsure whether provinces existed too.

Context: 1954 Chlef earthquake begins by saying that the earthquake happened in a specific province of French Algeria. I'm uncomfortable with this introduction, because it's anachronistic unless provinces existed in Algeria in 1954. Nyttend (talk) 22:51, 9 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The Provinces of Algeria article says "1957–1974: Immediately after independence, Algeria retained its 15 former French départements, which were renamed wilayas (provinces) in 1968, for the most part, with some name changes" Abductive (reasoning) 23:34, 9 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
In 1954 there were still only three départements in Algeria (Alger, Oran and Constantine), approximately covering the northern third of the country; the vast and sparsely populated southern regions were simply unorganized territory (the linked article about former French départements had a map). It would be anachronistic to refer to a post-1957 département or province in an article about an event in 1954. Xuxl (talk) 13:19, 10 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
If you scroll down to the middle of this page, there's a photograph including a map which shows only northern Algeria as belonging to Nato... AnonMoos (talk) 19:48, 13 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

September 10

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The Cat in Ancient Egypt by Langton

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Is this work (ISBN 0710307101) on archive.org or similar for easy download? Temerarius (talk) 02:06, 10 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Unlikely, since it was published in 2006 by a prominent publisher (Routledge), and while it seems not to be currently available from them, is recent enough that they would come down hard on any pirate online publication. Second-hand copies are likely available from the usual sources. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 94.6.83.137 (talk) 07:02, 10 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
First published 1940. Do we know when the Langtons died? DuncanHill (talk) 10:47, 10 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Henry Neville Langton died in 1948. Need a date for his wife. DuncanHill (talk) 10:54, 10 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Blanche died in a Worthing nursing home in August 1974, so not out of copyright yet. DuncanHill (talk) 11:05, 10 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I found NOTES ON SOME SMALL EGYPTIAN FIGURES OF CATS By NEVILLE LANGTON but I suppose that doesn't help.  Card Zero  (talk) 14:34, 10 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
It's not the book, but I like the figures! Thanks folks.
Temerarius (talk) 20:11, 10 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
My annoyance insists that I note surprise at a book published 1940 not yet belonging to the public. It's offensive to the ideals of humanism and scholarship. But my thanks to those who investigated the question. Temerarius (talk) 20:18, 10 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Incidentally, a late addition to your "misdeeds of archeology" question: Sven Rosborn and the Curmsun Disc. Several Danish scholars seem determined to disbelieve this object and happy to imply Rosborn faked it.  Card Zero  (talk) 09:43, 14 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
If you need additional help getting a resource here of any kind, check out Wikipedia:WikiProject Resource Exchange. They've generally been able to help me track down anything I've needed that was not lost to history or in a warzone. SamuelRiv (talk) 20:32, 10 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Seth / Sutekh name and origin

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I've seen an odd claim on a couple pages that Set(h) and Sutek were separate and independent gods later merged. Presuming this is false (to me it resembles a cultural-ideological denial) why would someone want to claim so? I'm not sure what culture-ideology would be against a common origin, as the Biblical Seth is--obviously he must have a connection to the Egyptian Seth, but nobody bothers making that argument. So I don't see the motivation from that crowd, the typical suspect for claims with a protesting heartiness like this one. Temerarius (talk) 03:09, 10 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Your question is unclear, and it is unclear which (Wikipedia?) articles you are referring to, but two entities having the same spelling (in English) does not "obviously" mean there "must" be a connection. If you have a reliable source for your claim (essential) I suggest you discuss with other editors on the relevant talk page, presumably Talk:Set (deity). Shantavira|feed me 08:29, 10 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Did I say I was gonna argue it? My question is a matter of curiosity, not Interest.
Temerarius (talk) 16:10, 10 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The name in the Tenakh is שֵׁת‎, which should be transcribed as Shet or, scientifically, Šet. This does not correspond to the hieroglyphic spellings.  --Lambiam 08:54, 10 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
If you're going scientific, Šeṯ (or Šeth). The plosive 't' is an artefact of Modern Hebrew. ColinFine (talk) 10:58, 10 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Begadkefat likely first occurred in spoken Hellenistic Hebrew (i.e. during the last few centuries BC), under Aramaic influence. Before that time there would not have been any fricative (spirantized) allophones. AnonMoos (talk) 18:49, 10 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I didn't know that! That does reduce the "obviously" of it. However, there was a fluidity of silibants in and between Egyptian and the Semitic languages early on that sometimes allows imperfectly matching correspondences.
Temerarius (talk) 16:15, 10 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

US enhanced driver license REALID compliant?

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Are enhanced driver licenses issued by certain US states compliant with REALID? I have read, for example, they will be accepted in the same way as REALID by the Transportation Security Administration at airports, but I haven't found any legislation saying they ARE REALID. My question is prompted by a bill in Congress, Safeguard American Voter Eligibility Act. (This is a redirect to a section in "Electoral fraud in the United States".) My concern is just because one agency considers them equivalent does not guarantee all federal and state agencies will consider them equivalent. Jc3s5h (talk) 17:29, 10 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

As far as I understand it, if your driver's license / DMV ID card has a yellow-encircled star on it, it's compliant... AnonMoos (talk) 18:43, 10 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
For non-Americans, see Real ID Act. Alansplodge (talk) 11:14, 11 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

September 12

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"The Irish have a certain root"

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"*The Merry-Thought*" (see Hurlothrumbo#Namesakes) is an eighteenth-century collection of graffiti. The fourth book was published around 1731, and it contains:

On Miss Sk—— at Tunbridge.
The Irish have a certain Root,
Our Parsnip’s very like unto’t,
Which eats with Butter wond’rous well,
And like Potatoes makes a Meal.
Now from this Root there comes a Name,
Which own’d is by the beauteous Dame,
Who sways the Heart of him who rules
A mighty Herd of Knaves and Fools.

From the rest of the book, it seems that rebuses on women's names were a popular subject for graffitists at the time, and most of the women were not famous. Usually the book gives the answer in the title it uses for the rebus, but in this case it doesn't, and I can't think of the answer.

We know that the name begins "Sk", or possibly "Sc" in modern spelling. It also means a root vegetable, and I can't think of any that begin that way.

If the verse had said that the woman herself ruled a mighty herd, it would have implied she had many admirers. Instead, it says she swayed the heart of someone who does. Who was that? The king at the time was George II of Great Britain. Wikipedia says his lovers were:

none of whom has a name beginning Sk—, or shared with a root vegetable.

(It may be relevant, but probably isn't, that "potato" once meant a sweet potato, the other kind being called "Virginia potatoes".)

I'm stumped. Any thoughts? Marnanel (talk) 12:34, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Skirret? Mikenorton (talk) 12:44, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
And Maria, Lady Walpole, née Skerret, not a royal consort, but she certainly swayed the heart of Robert Walpole. Mikenorton (talk) 12:48, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Presumably the "mighty Herd of Knaves and Fools" are the members of parliament. Mikenorton (talk) 19:20, 13 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Wasn't there a scandal about Walpole going down to Tunbridge Wells to see Molly while she was taking the cure? Something in Pope (I think he was agin her), or Lady Mary Wortley Montagu (she was a friend)? DuncanHill (talk) 19:51, 13 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Perhaps something to do with scorzonera, another name for black salsify (which, despite the alternative name, is not in the genus Scorzonera)?  --Lambiam 20:01, 13 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Lady Maria certainly seems to fit given her maiden name! Thanks all. Marnanel (talk) 15:31, 16 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Asquith's letters to Hilda Harrisson

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One of H. H. Asquith's lady friends was Hilda Harrisson (1888-1972) (mother of Anne Symonds) to whom he left £2500 in his will. Two selections of his letters to Hilda were sympathetically edited by Desmond MacCarthy and published as Letters of the Earl of Oxford and Asquith to a Friend, first & second series, in the 1930s. I would like to know if the originals survive? Thank you, DuncanHill (talk) 23:24, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Over 360 of them were put up for auction a few months ago with an estimated price of $15,000 to $25,000, but they remained unsold. Missed your chance there. Whether there are others elsewhere I know not. --Antiquary (talk) 19:01, 13 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you, I must hurry up and win the Lottery. DuncanHill (talk) 19:18, 15 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

September 14

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Territorial continuity of Transnistria

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Some maps show Transnistria as two territories with a small piece of land controlled by the Moldovan gov in between (see for instance: https://en.wikivoyage.org/wiki/Transnistria and File:Moldova adm location map.svg). The map used on the Wikipedia article uses a different color for that piece of land: File:Naddniestrze.png but there's no legend. Apparently Cocieri "remained in the area controlled by the Republic of Moldova" while nearby Roghi "is partly controlled by the secessionist government of Transnistria". Transnistria article says: "The main transportation route in Transnistria is the road from Tiraspol to Rîbnița through Dubăsari. North and south of Dubăsari it passes through the lands of the villages controlled by Moldova (Doroțcaia, Cocieri, Roghi, while Vasilievca is located entirely to the east of the road)." So who controls that piece of land? Do we have a reliable source? Should we update the maps? a455bcd9 (Antoine) (talk) 11:36, 14 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

There is a legend to the map in the Summary section of the page File:Naddniestrze.png; this legend is not included where the map is used on the page Transnistria.  --Lambiam 03:30, 15 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks. So the legend doesn't give the colors but the borders and I understand that this piece of land is claimed by Transnistria but controlled by Moldova with the exception of two roads? If I zoom in on the Wikivoyage map, they indeed show the Western road (not the Eastern one) as part of Transnistria. It would be great to have a single map backed by RS (there's also this one, a bit different, with some English typos, and whose accuracy is contested: File:Transnistria după Asybaris.jpg). a455bcd9 (Antoine) (talk) 07:50, 15 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Considering that the state of Transnistria isn't recognised by Moldova, the situation is likely to be fuzzy in some places, and indeed this appears to be one of those fuzzy places. According to some maps, the M4 road is controlled by Transnistria as a corridor through Moldova controlled land. This M4 is crossed by a farm track. From the satellite images on Google Earth, it appears that there's no proper border checkpoint at this farm track. So who controls the fields? The farmer who works them. The whole area appears to be behind Transnistrian border checkpoints, but in reality that border may not be very hard and people tend to be pragmatic. PiusImpavidus (talk) 10:52, 15 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Makes sense, thanks. M4 highway (Moldova) also says: "The road is controlled in its entirety by the government of the unrecognized state of Transnistria, as the road primarily crosses through Transnistrian territory. However, near the city of Dubăsari, it crosses the de facto border between Moldova (Dubăsari District) and Transnistria on several occasions." I found RS. I'll edit other articles accordingly. a455bcd9 (Antoine) (talk) 11:48, 15 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Name of this headdress?

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Is there a name for this headdress? She's Anne of Brittany. Seems to have been commonly worn in her era. BorgQueen (talk) 12:22, 14 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not sure there is a general one. If there is, it will probably have been given by later historians. Generally, we have many unillustrated names in inventories etc, and a decent number of images, but hardly ever any source that links a name to a style. In English this is sometimes called a "French hood", but thisn't much use for France, imo, though I see we have an article. "Gable hood" for the distinctive angled English version is much better established, but I think also modern. Johnbod (talk) 12:34, 14 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you for your answer! BorgQueen (talk) 12:38, 14 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Coiffe française. The article names Anne de Bretagne as the OG of this coiffe.  --Lambiam 18:41, 14 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I wouldn't trust that - it's a direct translation of the en-wiki article. -- asilvering (talk) 05:05, 15 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
OK. From a book with the title Anne de Bretagne: Sur les différentes enluminures où elle apparaît, elle porte toujours sur la tête ce qu'on appelle la cape bretonne.[8] Also used in French in a magazine article from 1912.[9] And in an English book entitled Womankind in Western Europe from the Earliest Times to the Seventeenth Century we find: She wears on her head the small flat hood, à la mode de Bretagne, which was called the cape Bretonne.[10]  --Lambiam 10:45, 15 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

September 15

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Mad dogs and Englishmen...

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... go out in the mid-day sun, as we are told. Our article says "The saying "Only mad dogs and Englishmen go out in the midday sun" is often asserted to have been coined by Rudyard Kipling but no precise source is ever cited". The song came out in 1931. In the 1911 short story "Amid the Trees" by Francis Xavier we read "only an Englishman or a dog walks in the mid-day sun, runs the proverb". So, are there any earlier incarnations of the proverb? Thank you, DuncanHill (talk) 19:24, 15 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

In Reminiscences of the Late Thomas Barker, an 1862 paper by Frederick Shum, we have mention of "the Italian saying that 'none but Englishmen and dogs would be seen abroad in the mid-day sun'." In a para called "An Italian Midday" in the 19 May 1838 issue of The New-Yorker (not that one) there seems to be an allusion to the same saying: "There is something to an English eye very singular in the appearance of a southern city at these hours. The closed shops, the deserted streets, closed and deserted under the very mid-day sun, make it look like a city of the dead. Dogs and Englishmen, they say, are alone stirring." --Antiquary (talk) 20:14, 15 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
And the website Phrase Finder traces it back to Charles Burney, who in 1770 wrote, "He certainly over-heated himself at Venice by walking at a season when it is said that only Dogs and Englishmen are seen out of doors at noon, all else lie down in the middle of the day." --Antiquary (talk) 20:31, 15 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

September 16

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Cobalt child mining in Congo

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Child labour has been endemic in Africa for a long time, and child laboour in cobalt mines have been used long before we had EVs. I have been looking for any solid evidence that children involved in Cobalt mining in the Congo has increased since the rise of the EV. I have still to find any. If there is solid evidence, I want to add it to the article on Cobalt. If nobody can find any evidence, then should that be added to the article? There seems to be an assumption that there is an increase, as in articles saying that "it is reasonable to assume that... ". Would anyone care to help me find evidence either way that could be added to the article and that leads to enlightenment on the subject? Star Lord - 星爵 (talk) 10:50, 16 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The United States Department of Labor has a project to identify and reduce child labor in Congo cobalt mines called COTECCO (I'm not sure what that acronym is for). Because they work on that specific issue, they likely have plenty of documentation on the topic. My understanding is that the project ends next month, so they should still have current data. 12.116.29.106 (talk) 14:24, 17 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I think the acronym is French. In neighbouring Angola the expansion might be a COmbater Trabalho de crianças [Enfants] nas minas de Cobaldo na república democrática do COngo. 2A02:C7B:223:9900:A88D:8EE5:E75B:3C1A (talk) 16:03, 17 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Originally an ILO project: Combattre le travail des enfants dans les chaînes d’approvisionnement de Cobalt en République démocratique du Congo.[11]  --Lambiam 22:41, 17 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for the information. I have read all the COTECCO documents I could find on www.dol.gov on the subject. It seemed to be directed towards raising awareness levels with private and govt stakeholders in DRC. I found no mention on any change in child labour. I suppose I shall not have anything of substance to add to the article. Star Lord - 星爵 (talk) 18:23, 18 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

September 17

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People guessing keys of melodies using wrong rules

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Look at Talk:Hail to the Chief.

Back in 2004, I (at that time using 66.32 and 66.245 IP addresses [I got a registered user name on January 1, 2005]) made the first post to the talk page, simply writing the melody. The key is G major.

Years later, another IP (I never bothered to study this talk page until recently) made comments implying that the melody the way I posted it was in D major, using the bad argument that a melody must start on the tonic. It's quite common for melodies to start on the dominant. Is this a common wrong rule some people use?? (Another important fact is that the post I made back then was before Wikipedia adopted a rule that you can't use a number sign for a sharp sign.) Georgia guy (talk) 00:19, 17 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It's a shame because it's an incredibly intuitive concept once it's explained the right way: it's just the note that feels like "home" for all intents and purposes! Find the note that sounds okay being hummed throughout, and that's probably the tonic! Remsense ‥  00:51, 17 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Remsense, look at the melody I wrote in the talk page of Hail to the Chief back in late 2004. I'm sure the tonic is G. (If you look at lower comments in the same section you'll see someone saying information implying that D is the tonic.) Georgia guy (talk) 01:12, 17 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Apologies to you as a Georgia guy, but the example du jour of this has been Sweet Home Alabama, though the reasoning is at least because the chord progression seems like it outlines G (D 〃 C G → V 〃 IV I) instead of D (I 〃 ♭VII IV) to some. Remsense ‥  01:16, 17 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Georgia guy, I'm not exactly sure what you're getting at. Are you saying that File:Hail to the Chief Chorus Sheet Music.png is in G?

I'm not sure how that could be (by the way, you would be arguing it's in G Lydian). It starts with a strong I–V–I that rather firmly establishes D as the tonic—you have to look at the entire harmony to discern the key, not just the melody. In any case, it would be rather untypical to start with the leading tone. The harmonies rather squarely fit into what'd we'd expect from a piece in D, with really no exceptions. Aza24 (talk) 03:21, 17 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The melody recorded with note names in Talk:Hail to the Chief § Melody and the First Voice seen in the score at File:Hail to the Chief Chorus Sheet Music.png are not in the same key. The melody rises stepwise to the note sounded at "Chief", the fourth syllable of the text (not counting the two-bar intro "Hail! Hail!"). This note is the tonic. On the talk page of Hail to the Chief this is a G; in the printed score it is a D. The Bass Voice in the score is stubbornly D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D throughout the initial "Hail to the Chief who in Triumph ad-". This is as sure an indication of the tonic as one might hope to get from the music itself. The key signature of the score is also that of D major.  --Lambiam 08:25, 17 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Aza24, the song (like most songs) can be in any key; the key depends on how the song is arranged. Here is the first line of the song in each key:
  • D major: A-B-C-D-C-B-A-B-A-F-E-D
  • G major: D-E-F-G-F-E-D-E-D-B-A-G. Lambiam, what notes (assuming the song is in G major) are the notes "Hail! Hail!" that make up the 2-bar intro?? (Also please note that a few years later, someone re-wrote the melody, also on the talk page but in a lower section, in a different key with a description that [if correct] would imply that the melody that I wrote on the talk page was in D; it would imply that the printed score is in A. They were using the argument that a song's first note is likely its tonic.) Georgia guy (talk) 10:18, 17 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Each of the two initial Hail!s takes up a full bar of four beats. Looking at all three voices, the first is D·F♯·D and the second A·E·C♯. Although the first is not a full triad I interpret this as the progression I–V, which is followed by D·F♯·A, unambiguously I. Melodically, A–C♯–A wouldn't have worked well; D–C♯–A is much better.  --Lambiam 16:04, 17 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Lambiam, please note what this discussion is intended to be about. Look further down the talk page (below where I put the melody in G major) and you'll see what I mean. You'll see a comment made by an IP who said something that if it were true, it would imply that the way I put the melody at the talk page (which is in G) was in D. Georgia guy (talk) 16:09, 17 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    What is the question? If you want me to comment on a comment by someone who commented on your comment, could you be more precise than "further down the talk page", such as indicating in which thread by which IP when?  --Lambiam 16:32, 17 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Lambiam, look down the talk page for a post dating to late 2008 by the IP 90.24.229.69. (The 66. user who put the notes to the song in G major in late 2004 was me before I got a Wikipedia user name on January 1, 2005.) Georgia guy (talk) 16:34, 17 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    The post starting with "Wrong image" then. Could you remind me what the question is?  --Lambiam 18:59, 17 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Lambiam: Yes, look at what someone wrote just after the words "Wrong image". The IP put the melody in a different key but claimed it was in the key that would be equivalent to the statement that the melody I put on the talk page in 2004 was in D major. Please read it. Georgia guy (talk) 19:07, 17 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I did read it. Now what is your question?  --Lambiam 19:44, 17 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Now, the user appears to be thinking that their set of notes of "Hail to the Chief" is in F, not B. This is a mistake. I want to know if this is a common mistake. Georgia guy (talk) 20:18, 17 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    It is not a common mistake among people who know something about Western music theory. It is also not a common mistake among people who know nothing about Western music theory and therefore refrain from making statements about what key something is in. But then there are some people who know nothing about Western music theory and yet are happy to make pronouncements that only display their ignorance. I have no material on how common this is for this specific type of error.  --Lambiam 22:31, 17 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Infralapsarianism infiltrates inter-disciplinarily. -- Jack of Oz [pleasantries] 20:20, 18 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Trump denied security clearance?

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Suppose Donald Trump is inaugurated next January. Is there any way he could be denied any security clearance or information, due to his criminal convictions and so on? Could there be any restrictions that he could not overturn? Hayttom (talk) 12:21, 17 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Nope. --Golbez (talk) 13:07, 17 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The president can constitutionally declare that there is an insurrection and, using the powers of the Insurrection Act, order the military to arrest their opponents. They need not involve Congress. If this doesn't work as planned, it can only be because of insubordination  --Lambiam 16:14, 17 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Are acts of the president susceptible to Judicial Review? 2A02:C7B:223:9900:A88D:8EE5:E75B:3C1A (talk) 16:31, 17 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
By a recent ruling of the Supreme Court, the president enjoys absolute immunity for official acts, which this would be. In light of this, the question is purely theoretical. There is no way that SCOTUS, if not already arrested, would seek to review the acts (and if they do, the president can have them incarcerated too).  --Lambiam 16:43, 17 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
First, it's presumptive immunity for official acts, and absolute for so-called core acts of the office. The actual status (both legal and practical) of the notion of arresting/harassing/killing political opponents was disputed at the day of the ruling; I don't think anybody has seriously brought up the notion that other branches of government can be extralegally rounded up. Also, according to the Trump v US article you linked (but I didn't read the source and I probably don't understand it), Justice Jackson argued that legislative impeachment powers were reduced relative the judiciary in checking executive abuses of this nature after this ruling. So I'm guessing this is all way more complicated than all this, even if just theoretical. SamuelRiv (talk) 19:09, 17 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Actually only Golbez (talk) seemed to understand my question (although they were not very generous with elaboration) so I will try to ask it better: could any institution like the CIA withhold (or try to withhold or at least demonstrate going through the motions of withholding) a president's security clearance on grounds such as their criminal history? Hayttom (talk) 17:47, 17 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Nope. I mean, I suppose employees there could try, but they would be failing their job and thus should be fired. --Golbez (talk) 18:27, 17 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
According to any source online, no conviction jeopardizes the president's security clearance because he doesn't have any (and keep in mind he gets classified briefings still, and would again be automatically granted them now as the major party's nominee, and his suitability to receive them even came up as an issue in 2016.) SamuelRiv (talk) 19:13, 17 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
(Edit conflict): Addendum to my above: I don't know to what extent this is entirely norms, or norms made legal by default, just like there there ain't no rules says a dog can't play basketball. SamuelRiv (talk) 19:24, 17 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I think the 2016 source refers to presidential candidates. Hayttom (talk) 19:20, 17 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Yes. Once nominated, the major party candidates get classified briefings. As do presidents. As do ex-presidents, for life. SamuelRiv (talk) 19:27, 17 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
(I believe I remember George H. W. Bush being quoted a few years before he died that he was no longer in the loop. But I imagine that was by his own request.) Hayttom (talk) 20:06, 17 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
OK, so we are being told that Trump (as an ex-president, as a candidate, and in the terms of my question, a president) cannot be denied classified briefings. Hayttom (talk) 20:06, 17 September 2024 (UTC) [reply]
Resolved

Buddhist monks and nuns theravada mahayana vajrayana

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Is there website where they show Buddhist monks and nuns of Theravada, Mahayana and Vajrayana look like and dress like? Donmust90 Donmust90 (talk) 18:24, 17 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

You can do a web search for images of members of those schools. You can also see images in our articles at Theravada, Mahayana and Vajrayana. However, it's not as simple as that as their dress depends which country they are in and which particular branch of those schools they belong to. Shantavira|feed me 08:15, 18 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

September 19

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Plan Tamaulipas

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I am editing Hurricane Francine and I came across a Mexican organizations known as plans (Tamaulipas and DN-III). I am not sure what they are and I don't know how to research it as I do not speak Spanish (especially not Mexican Spanish). ✶Quxyz 00:32, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The reason that the subject line is for specifically Tamaulipas was because I changed the focus of the topic of this request midway through upon realizing the DN-III wikilink goes to DN-III-E which I am not sure is the same. ✶Quxyz 00:36, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Language

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September 5

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Illari Quispe Ruiz

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https://overwatch.fandom.com/wiki/Illari

Would it be more accurate to state her full name (Infobox) as being Latin American Spanish or Quechua? Need to know for Wikidata purposes Trade (talk) 22:36, 5 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Illari and Quispe is predominantly Quechua, Ruiz is Spanish but not necessarily Latin American. 惑乱 Wakuran (talk) 01:38, 6 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The game is voiced in Latin American Spanish and English, according to the page. I say es-419. In game, the character could be considered to speak es-PE or whatever Quechua dialect she uses, but the work she is in is Latin American Spanish, I understand.
--Error (talk) 17:34, 6 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Compare https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q828542 . Name in native language is "Winnetou (German)", not Apache.
--Error (talk) 17:38, 6 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not even sure if Winnetou would even mean anything in Apache language. Once, I tried looking up a web-based Lakota dictionary to see if Yakari would mean anything, and the best I could come up with was "Sitting Crow", admitting that I know just about nothing of Lakota grammatical and syntactical rules... 惑乱 Wakuran (talk) 22:02, 6 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Winnetou is very likely some kind of distortion of Manitou. It seems a little strange that this isn't mentioned in the article... AnonMoos (talk) 18:52, 7 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

September 6

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-ou

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Are there any English words where final -ou represents /aʊ/ other than thou and the truncations thou ("thousand") and trou ("trousers")? 71.126.56.187 (talk) 14:53, 6 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

This list of English words ending in "ou" are all fairly recent loan words except "you". Alansplodge (talk) 15:37, 6 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
It is mostly the fault of the fact that ow has become the standard spelling when it is final. Originally (in Anglo-Saxon) it was spelled u and pronounced like the modern English oo in moon. But because English was influenced by French, it became ou when Middle English evolved, and u was used for the modern descendant of the French u sound that English lacks. Because of the Great Vowel Shift, ou in English (which comes from Anglo-Saxon long u) became the sound it has now in out, and for some unknown reason was re-spelled ow at the end of a word. Long u in English (which comes from Anglo-Norman long u) became the you sound, which is now often simplified to oo after certain consonants. Georgia guy (talk) 15:48, 6 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
However, in the Black Country dialect of the English Midlands, "you" is pronounced "yow". Alansplodge (talk) 15:19, 8 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Can I change Wikipedia so that articles appear in American English? If so, how?

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I use Wikipedia a lot. The articles contain British spelling. I wish to change the Wikipedia content to articles with American spelling. Is this possible and, if so, how do I do this?

Thank you. Bcgura (talk) 18:19, 6 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Wikipedia:Manual of Style#National varieties of English --Viennese Waltz 18:46, 6 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Since Wikipedia does not use slang, it should be fairly easy to program a browser extension (a person I saw online in one weekend both learned the Chrome extension tools and made a basic version of this) or even, if your only interest is Wikipedia, your own customized CSS stylesheet, with UK-to-US replacement rules encoded.
As a template, you can view the source of Josh May's javascript tool (the javascript is linked in the webpage source, and the replacement dictionary is linked from that) and then tinker from there. (Also, be sure run the javascript source through a code beautifier to make it readable.) SamuelRiv (talk) 18:55, 6 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
There are of course a lot of hazards and edge cases in doing this. Many names would be respelled, such as Victoria Arbour, various place names, and band names such as Living Colour. Exceptions such as Broadway theatre would be incorrectly corrected. Some differences are grammatical, for instance bath can be a verb in Br Eng, and that one would be left unchanged. I was also trying to come up with an ambiguity such as rearise, which could sometimes be parsed as re-arise, but at other times be equivalent to Am Eng *rearize, meaning "to make more rear". Fortunately that's not a word.  Card Zero  (talk) 05:20, 7 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Some respelling errors can be avoided by not touching terms that are not in the lower case expected for a common noun in sentence case; these are probably proper nouns. You also don't want to touch literal quotations, like Churchill's "Here indeed was the Irish spectre—horrid and inexorcisable!"[12] Next to grammatical differences there are also lexical ones, e.g. British English boot (of a car) versus American English trunk.  --Lambiam 07:22, 7 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Is it really that hard to read British spelling? Alansplodge (talk) 12:18, 7 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Have you tried Conservapedia? Noting their policy on spelling. -- Verbarson  talkedits 20:53, 7 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Our article on Noah Webster contains the statement "Webster viewed language as a means to control disruptive thoughts. His American Dictionary emphasized the virtues of social control over human passions and individualism." This seems a good reason to deploy multicultural orthography.
We also have an article on Ethnic Cleansing for those who demand racial purity in Wikipedian spelling. --Cookatoo.ergo.ZooM (talk) 06:18, 8 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Though I'm unclear how in practice teaching people to spell words like rumor, skunk, apothegm, donut, and gray mustache fiber was supposed to improve their manners.  Card Zero  (talk) 07:47, 8 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I wonder if the OP can handle the spelling of the Space Shuttle Endeavour? HiLo48 (talk) 15:17, 16 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Takes me back to when the British and the French jointly developed a supersonic aircraft. The British called it "Concord", the French "Concorde". In the spirit of the entente cordiale, the latter spelling was amicably agreed. 2A02:C7B:223:9900:6CC3:8F33:6056:E8EA (talk) 15:22, 16 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

September 7

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Egyptian personal names and gendered parentals

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"Understanding Hieroglyphics",[1] shot through with dubious claims, says "The terms that could be used for this designation were "born of" when using the mother's name and "made by" or "of his body" when using the father's name." (These are ms F31 and ir D4.) Interesting, but is it true? Temerarius (talk) 22:22, 7 September 2024 (UTC) Temerarius (talk) 22:22, 7 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

References

  1. ^ Wilson, Hilary (2019-07-25). Understanding Hieroglyphs. Michael O'Mara. p. 41. ISBN 978-1-78929-107-0.
The author, Hilary Wilson, appears to be well qualified in Egyptology and has written several books besides this one on the subject, issued by respected publishers: do you have some reason to doubt her expertise or honesty? {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 94.6.83.137 (talk) 13:32, 9 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Don't you judge some books better than others? It's one of those brash syntheses with misplaced self-confidence and inappropriate breadth. The claims that made me involuntarily laugh refer to no one. However, I quit after the first few chapters.
Temerarius (talk) 03:34, 11 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I understated it, her "selected bibliography" pg 218 is just "here's some books I've read." No references. Light fare, and recent. On page 38 there's an etiology of Serapis that reads like the bunk about the etymology of Kangaroo. (A common myth is that it was a Guugu Yimithirr phrase for "I don't know".) That the author would give it a thought let alone pass it on reveals how shallow her respect for the ancients is. That they created a whole god all wrong because they misunderstood instead of because their Serapis served their needs. Leaves a bad taste in my mouth! It's the sign of a mind that can't contribute. And here's how the book jacket describes her qualifications: Hilary Wilson has been interested in Ancient Egypt since childhood. She trained as a mathematics teacher while at the University of Leicester, while at the same time taking courses on archaeology and mediaeval history. She has run courses in Egyptology at the University of Southampton Not a good source. This is the kind of book where lines of fact checking go to die.
Temerarius (talk) 00:05, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
And our page on Hilary Wilson needs work, was it written by her agent? Kinda promotiony.
Temerarius (talk) 00:32, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

September 8

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French 'de le' --> 'du', and 'de les' --> 'des': an exception?

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Quote: La mort de Le Corbusier m'a rempli d'une joie immense. Le Corbusier était une creature pitoyable travaillant en béton armé. (Salvador Dalí, 1969)

  • The first thing that I noticed was that it wasn't La mort du Corbusier .... Is this a standard exception for personal names and pseudonyms?

It doesn't seem to be the case for titles of books etc.

Or was Dalí, being Spanish, speaking broken French? -- Jack of Oz [pleasantries] 00:17, 8 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

References

French Wikipedia uses "de Le Corbusier" near-universally. In fact, the article has a cite note which I believe encourages it when referring to the artist, with "du Corbusier" being reserved for referring to one of his achievements instead. Whether this is a common stylistic theme throughout all of French, however, is beyond me. GalacticShoe (talk) 06:00, 8 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I found over 100 uses of "de Le Corbusier" in Le Monde diplomatique: La ville La Roche, chef-d'œuvre de Le Corbusier; la chaise longue de Le Corbusier; moquer des lunettes de Le Corbusier; des groupies de Le Corbusier; le cadavre superexquis de Le Corbusier, although that last one might be the words of Dali. In fact it's from a letter written by Dali which goes:

Le cadavre exquis du Corbu, le Corbu du corbillard, le cadavre superexquis de Le Corbusier, le courbillon en ciment et acier du Corbusier, Corbu de l'arbousier, le cadavre exquis du Corbu. Dans la Cour d'Appel, le Corbu montre le cas. Il le montre, le cas. La Cour examine le cas du Corbu, le cas et le ça, le ça et le cas, le cas du Corbu recorbuyoté au corbillon du cas, du ça, du cas, du caca, du Corbu, la castration, l’hibernation, la lévitation, l’antigravitation dans la basse-cour de Le Corbusier…

with a use of du Corbusier mixed in there. (I guess "courbillon" is a play on tourbillon. I have no idea about "recorbuyoté au corbillon".)  Card Zero  (talk) 06:17, 8 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
"Corbillon" is also a play on "court-bouillon", in which case "recorbuyoté au corbillon" sort of makes sense. Xuxl (talk) 13:23, 10 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Googling the question (my search term was contraction de le du avec noms propres), I find lots of forum discussions on the topic (e.g. [13], [14]). The tenor is that names of persons are not contracted (Le Corbusier is an often cited example), the names of places are usually contracted (du Havre), as are articles in the titles of novels and such. Clearly, in the latter case, the article is perceived as just that, an ordinary article, whereas in the names of people it is perceived as an integral, unmodifiable part of that name. Place names are inbetween, it seems that most are contracted, but that is not universal. --Wrongfilter (talk) 07:47, 8 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
In English we similarly write "a New York Times headline"[15] and not "a The New York Times headline".  --Lambiam 15:25, 8 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
On the other hand, it would be "a The The concert", not "a The concert".  Card Zero  (talk) 16:17, 8 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Are you going to the The The concert?
I'm not sure about this comparison, Lambiam. The English example is about dropping the "the" after an article (either def or indef: "I read the NYT headline"; "I read it in a NYT article").
There's also the phenomenon of dropping the "the" but not from the object of the phrase. In TV speak, when referring to a new episode of some long-running show (e.g. The Chase) rather than the repeats they've been foisting on us for weeks, they'll say: "New The Chase", rather than "The new The Chase" or "The new Chase").
My question is about not so much dropping 2 words and replacing them with 1, but about transforming 2 into 1. Same end result, I know. -- Jack of Oz [pleasantries] 17:44, 8 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
When "de Le Corbusier" is contracted to "du Corbusier", it means that the author treats "Le" as an ordinary article; one would expect this author also to prefer "Celui-ci est un autre Corbusier que le public connaît" ("This is another Corbusier than the public knows"). Note that, say, "This is not the Le Corbusier that the public is allowed to see" would normally be, in French, "Celui n'est pas le Le Corbusier que le public est autorisé à voir." The pseudonym derives from an Old French professional surname equivalent to "The Cobbler", and Dali's grammatical maltreatment is what one should expect from someone treating "corbusier" as if it is a common noun. Dali's use is not standard, doubtlessly so on purpose. I reacted, though, to the observation that it is common in French to perceive articles in the titles of novels and such as ordinary articles and gave what I think is an example of a similar case in English.  --Lambiam 19:31, 8 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
It's surrealist wordplay, very Daliesque... 惑乱 Wakuran (talk) 20:43, 8 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
It would be "a concert", though.  --Lambiam 17:57, 8 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Once in 2005 I was pleased to see the phrase a Qaeda member. —Tamfang (talk) 23:26, 11 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Younger people these days would be more likely to say "a al-Qaeda member". The a short like "uh", followed by a shocking glottal stop. Tragic. -- Jack of Oz [pleasantries] 19:09, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Not only younger people these days. As I've quoted here before, from A Streetcar Named Desire (1947): "And wasn't we happy together? Wasn't it all OK? Till she showed here. Hoity-toity, describin' me like a ape." Deor (talk) 19:26, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I have always depended on the kindness of ref desk editors who come up with germane quotes. -- Jack of Oz [pleasantries] 03:28, 13 September 2024 (UTC) [reply]
Dickens: “the law is a ass” —Tamfang (talk) 22:29, 17 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
It was quite a shock when youngsters started to call it "a day" instead of calling it "an day". In the MS Cotton Caligula A.ix, dating from the third quarter of the 13th century, the scribe renders the inception of Layamon's Brut as "An preost", but a copy made half a century later, the MS Cotton Otho C.xiii, has "A prest".[16]  --Lambiam 19:47, 13 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I saw that in your edit summary and assumed it meant "see you soon", but I guess not. --Trovatore (talk) 19:51, 13 September 2024 (UTC) [reply]

September 11

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Checkerboard or chessboard??

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Some dictionaries say that either term is always acceptable. Other dictionaries say that checkerboard is always acceptable, but that chessboard is acceptable only when it has chess pieces on it. Which is correct?? Georgia guy (talk) 14:33, 11 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Georgia guy: This is likely a WP:ENGVAR thing. In British English, it's more often called a draughts board or chessboard, depending on what it's being used for. Checkers and checkerboard, when used, are usually spelt chequers and chequerboard respectively. [17] [18] [19] . Bazza 7 (talk) 14:48, 11 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
"Checkerboard" also refers more narrowly to the pattern itself. These are fine degrees of meaning, but if one used the term "checkerboard" to refer to a board being used to play chess, that visual pattern would be more directly emphasized in my mind. It would seem to be a deliberately literary choice of words, though. "Chessboard" is much more natural. Remsense ‥  15:07, 11 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Flat surfaces with this pattern are often used for camera calibration. The OpenCV docs seem to use either term indiscriminately: [20]. This tutorial uses "chess board" for an object that clearly does not have the appropriate shape and size to put chess pieces on: [21]. I do find that "checkerboard" is usually a closed compound written as a single word, but "chess board" is more likely to be an open compound with a space. If some of your dictionaries recommend against "chessboard" in at least some contexts, that could be just because they would write it as two words with a space. I wonder whether they would prefer "checkerboard" or "chess board" as an alternative to "chessboard." --Amble (talk) 15:29, 11 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
In the technical heraldic descriptive language of Blazoning, an abstract pattern of squares in two alternating colors is known as "chequy", or a more modern alternative spelling is "checky". You wouldn't encounter the word in general use, but its meaning is exact in specifying a pure graphic pattern without reference to a board of any kind... AnonMoos (talk)
One thing to keep in mind is that the board is "checked" in terms of its pattern. The pattern would seem to make it easier to play checkers, while chess could probably be played fairly easily on an 8 x 8 grid with all the squares the same color. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots16:26, 11 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Note that chess and check, along with the derived terms checker, checkers, checked, etc., all come from Persian Shah, referring to the king in a game of chess. --Amble (talk) 16:54, 11 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Maybe it shouldn't, but it tickles me considerably that every sense of the English word check is derived from the chess sense. Remsense ‥  16:56, 11 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
One of those derived terms is exchequer, literally "chessboard", a checkered cloth for counting coins.  Card Zero  (talk) 08:16, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Baseball Bugs has just been clobbered on the Humanities and Language desks. One more for him:

You say "chess could probably be played fairly easily on an 8x8 grid with all the squares the same color." Do you know how the bishop and the queen move?

[22] (at 1:41:58) 80.44.89.207 (talk) 18:20, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, I know how the chess pieces work. Do you? ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots18:24, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Yeah, it's not that difficult if one pays a little bit of attention. If the board were 16 × 16 there would be constant visualization problems, but it's still manageable at 8 × 8. Remsense ‥  18:26, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
You can certainly do it, but you can do it in checkers too, so I'm not completely sure I follow Bugs's point. It definitely optimizes chess calculations to know that bishops stay on a color and knights change color every move. I bet even grandmasters rely on that. --Trovatore (talk) 19:59, 13 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

another odd wördle.de answer (Sept 10 answer)

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Hello friends, any idea what "fütze" means? Is it slang? Archaic? t.y. 70.67.193.176 (talk) 15:30, 11 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Google Translate says it means "fuss". ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots16:20, 11 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
In what language? No it doesn't?
I can't find it on wiktionary. Your closest guess (if it's germanic) might be related to wikt:Pfütze, unless like you say it's slang or a recent borrowing. SamuelRiv (talk) 16:32, 11 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I specified German-to-English, and it translated it as "fuss". Try it! ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots18:25, 11 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I suggest you play around with Google Translate a bit more, including with incomplete words and phrases in other languages. That's not what it's literally trying to tell you.
Meanwhile, you can search Google for "fütze" in quotes and see how it's actually used in context. SamuelRiv (talk) 18:33, 11 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I'm just telling you what Google Translate says. Whether it's correct or not, the only "guessing" is by Google Translate. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots18:52, 11 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
If you're posting on the ref desk you should take some responsibility for the correctness of your response. Google Translate did not "guess" as to the meaning. It "guessed" that you made a typo. SamuelRiv (talk) 20:28, 11 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I specified German-to-English. I put "fütze" under German and it gave me "fuss" under English. It also said "Did you mean: pfütze" (which apparently means "puddle"). I'm not going to claim that Google Translate is any sort of oracle. But don't yell at me for what Google Translate came up with. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots20:58, 11 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I strongly ask you again that you take responsibility for the reliability of answers you post on the Reference Desk. SamuelRiv (talk) 07:29, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I am not responsible for the answers that Google Translate gives. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots16:53, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Based on Google Ngrams and Google Books, I suspect that it's a possibly-archaic variant of Pfütze. GalacticShoe (talk) 16:29, 11 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Almost all the apparent hits in the Google Books search are scanning errors, for unrelated words as different as "süeze", "-sätze", "kurze", "stütze" and others. There was only one hit I saw where it was genuinely written as an eye-dialect spelling of "Pfütze", and one that contained a family name that was actually "Fütze". No, it's not a word in German, neither dialectal nor archaic. Fut.Perf. 19:07, 11 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Tracks for this database :( Thank you very much.70.67.193.176 (talk) 22:26, 11 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The Grimm´s dictionary lists "Futz", a term for vagina, presumably related to the current word "Fut". There may be a plural, "Fütze". It seems to be used in Alemannic areas. I have never heard it in 80 years, but I may speak to the wrong people. --Cookatoo.ergo.ZooM (talk) 06:38, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I think "Fotze" is a fairly common slang term in current German. 惑乱 Wakuran (talk) 14:14, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Deutsches Wörterbuch lists Futz as an older or dialectal variant of Fotze. 惑乱 Wakuran (talk) 14:17, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Although it is very odd that a mainstream word game would have as its solution a dated variant spelling of a highly vulgar, sexual term, to begin with. 惑乱 Wakuran (talk) 14:19, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
In several parts of Germany, words beginning with 'Pf' are often pronounced without the initial 'P'. 'Pfütze' is actually given as one of the examples for this by the Leibniz Institute for German Language. --Morinox (talk) 13:27, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Seems to have been the case for early Yiddish, as well. 惑乱 Wakuran (talk) 14:14, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Huh. All this time I assumed that wikt:futz was a simple minced oath for "fuck" since I'd only encountered it as "futzing around with" in the sense of playing with a problem (basically etymology 2, sense 2). Could it have crossed back into German in altered form? Matt Deres (talk) 15:32, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
As the word, in its many variants, have a very old history in German, I'd rather stipulate that the English word arrived via German immigrants. 惑乱 Wakuran (talk) 15:59, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Them futzing Angels, Saxons and Jutes... --Cookatoo.ergo.ZooM (talk) 16:19, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Further back, it gets even futzier... 惑乱 Wakuran (talk) 18:13, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The word may be of the Untereichsfeld (lower Eichsfeld) dialect. See de:Dialekte_im_Eichsfeld#Untereichsfelder Mundart. Here it is mentioned as a word example "Fütze/Pfütze". 115.188.162.252 (talk) 07:59, 13 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

September 14

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"Mental health" as a negative

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It seems that the term "mental health" is very often used to mean its exact opposite, viz. mental illness. I know that sounds stupid, but I've had a few online discussions with people who've used it that way, and their position seems to be that that's what people are now saying, so what's the issue?

Here's an example from today's news: I had … an acute episode of mental health.

This is from a hospital's website: mental health symptoms.

A symptom is: A perceived change in some function, sensation or appearance of a person that indicates a disease or disorder. Since when was health a disease or disorder? Wouldn't the sign have been better worded "Mental illness symptoms"? Yes, I know there's a kind of stigma around the expression "mental illness", but this is surely what the signage is referring to, no? Would anyone ever say "symptoms of physical health" and expect it to be understood as "symptoms of physical illness"? We have "indicators" of health, but "symptoms" of illness or disease. Why are they needlessly confusing these things?-- Jack of Oz [pleasantries] 05:46, 14 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Euphemism? I can't reach the first link outside of Australia, or as a non-paying reader or something, the the second link states "Mental health is an essential aspect of overall well-being...", so it isn't really used the way you claim it is. 惑乱 Wakuran (talk) 10:33, 14 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
You're always vigilant for auto-antonyms (because you're such a suspicious individual). This one reminds me of when you previously asked about "TLDR", along with the word "entitled". In all three cases we have a conversion from a mundane, ordinary, unexciting object - a tract that's long and intractable, a person who genuinely deserves respect, an unremarkable mind functioning without peril or distress - to the exciting thing people really want to discuss: a short and catchy summary, a snob to throw eggs at, a dangerously disturbed mind and the dramatic story about living with it and taming it. It seems that generally speaking, whenever there's a name for something trivial and usual, the name is liable to be converted into a name for the unusual, opposite thing.
Ideally I'd now test this theory by pulling out a few terms for dull routine situations, which ought to show signs of sometimes being used to mean the opposite. But I can't think of any more. I don't know, could "air quality" perhaps be a synonym for pollution?  Card Zero  (talk) 10:34, 14 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
"It seems that generally speaking, whenever there's a name for something trivial and usual, the name is liable to be converted into a name for the unusual, opposite thing." - that's pretty much just restating the subject of my question. If I went onto social media and jokingly posted "I'm having acute episodes of mental health lately", meaning that my mind is in great shape, I would get a lot of responses saying they're so sorry, asking if I'm ok, am I getting all the support I need yada yada. This "language change" b/s is so insidious: It stops now! d'ya hear? -- Jack of Oz [pleasantries] 21:32, 14 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
For sure, by all the authority vested in you! It seems like some things only get mentioned in the negative when the positive side of it is "normal". Like when someone says we're going to have weather today. We have weather every day, but it's only a big deal when it's "bad" weather. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots22:03, 14 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Clearly a weather episode! 惑乱 Wakuran (talk) 20:58, 15 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Overpowered is possibly another example: modern usage tends to be the gaming sense of "too powerful".  Card Zero  (talk) 20:36, 15 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
We see, likewise, uses of just "health symptoms": "10 Health Symptoms Women Shouldn't Ignore",[23] "6 Health Symptoms That You Should Never Ignore",[24] "Don't ignore health symptoms amid COVID-19 pandemic",[25] "Dr.’s Tips: Health Symptoms and Warning Signs That Should Never Be Ignored",[26] "Warning Health Symptoms: Discover the crucial health symptoms you should always take seriously",[27] and so on and so forth. I don't think these are a symptom of "health" being used as a term meaning the lack thereof. Uses of "acute episode of mental health", while strange, are possibly instances of sloppy shortening of typical phrases such as "acute (episode of) mental health crisis",[28][29][30] "acute episode of mental health distress",[31][32][33] and "acute (episode of) mental health issues".[34][35][36]  --Lambiam 15:39, 14 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Née question

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The article Suoma af Hällström starts as:

Suoma Helena Loimaranta-Airila, (first married surname af Hällström), (née Loimaranta, before 1906 née Lindstedt) (10 March 1881 – 3 November 1954) was a Finnish doctor and an active member of the Lotta Svärd women's auxiliary paramilitary organisation.

Now "née" literally means "born". The way the article reads is that she was first born as Lindstedt, but in 1906 this was somehow retroactively changed so that she was actually born as Loimaranta.

Now I think the intended meaning is that she was born as Lindstedt but the family later changed their name to Loimaranta. How should this be properly written? JIP | Talk 12:26, 14 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I changed it to "née Lindstedt; surname Finnicized to Loimaranta before marriage". Double sharp (talk) 12:28, 14 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

A couple of questions (primarily about phonology)

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Question 1

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1. Is it known roughly when the Arabic feature of the L-sound in the article al assimilating into following coronal or sun letters arose? Primal Groudon (talk) 16:33, 14 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Question 2

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2. In Sino-Xenic languages, can a word’s syllable structure (which phoneme slots it has) as well as the specific phonemes that occupy those slots be used to aid in determining whether the word is native or derived from Chinese (loanwords from other sources are ignored for the purpose of this query)? Primal Groudon (talk) 16:33, 14 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Probably in Japanese and Korean, anyway. 惑乱 Wakuran (talk) 19:40, 15 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
What are some of the phonetic signs therein of native or Chinese origin? Primal Groudon (talk) 19:21, 17 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
For Korean, here's a pretty comprehensive paper: [37]. The phonetics of Sino-Korean words tends to be more restricted than native Korean words. Sino-Korean words never or almost never use the tense ("double") consonants, compound final consonants, or aspirated "k", and they have fewer and more limited diphthongs. There are also some particular combinations of initial consonants plus vowels that are either rare or do not occur in Sino-Korean. There are characteristic ways that Sino-Korean words fit into a Korean sentence, such as using the helping verb "hada" (to make or do) instead of directly participating in Korean inflectional patterns. The paper also points out that Sino-Korean vocabulary includes words that do not exist in Chinese, but were derived in Korean by combining Chinese characters, and behave in Korean as Sino-Korean words. --Amble (talk) 21:40, 17 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Question 3

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3. Was the labial W-glide in Middle Chinese (and in early forms of Japanese that had it) only allowed with velar initials? Primal Groudon (talk) 16:33, 14 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Question 4

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4. Given the Tibetan script’s overall stability in the face of 1200 years of sound changes, can the presence of certain letters or letter combinations be used to aid in determining when a word entered the Tibetan language? Primal Groudon (talk) 16:33, 14 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Question 5

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5: Has greater global interconnectedness in recent times led to an increase in the prevalence of unadapted borrowings? Primal Groudon (talk) 20:00, 14 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I will take recent to mean postwar or even later. I think this has to be the case in both directions relative to English, the global lingua franca: for loanwords being borrowed from English, it's obvious this has to do with the massive increase in global literacy during the 20th century, meaning that orthography became a far more common concrete realization of the vocabulary that was being borrowed into languages across the globe. This is also a factor for loanwords being borrowed into English, but I think there is also a critical impulse in institutions and certain classes of writers that orthography remain "unanglicized" to various degrees as a matter of cosmopolitan respect or self-awareness in addition to recognizability among bilingual readers. Remsense ‥  22:36, 14 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
By "unadapted", do you mean phonetically/phonotactically, and to what extent? So like, in English, would words like deja vu and double entendre be considered unadapted French loanwords for your definition in this q? Or in French, place names like "Boston" that's been phonotactically altered so the stress is on the final syllable, while articulation remains largely the same? The most "raw" borrowings can probably be seen in urban youth dialects, so see the diversity in borrowings in Multicultural Toronto English or similar, or else immigrant ethnolects like you see in a possibly-diminishing Italian-American slang (the nonstandard pronunciation of which apparently comes from the unique mix of regions the 20th-century immigrants primarily came from -- see end of link), some of which would seem a permanent fixture now of greater American slang.
As a stab in the dark, I'll refer first to Bromhan et al 2014 (free pdf link), from which I suggest you read the introduction section to get an overview of the complexity of the problem as currently studied. (The intro at a glance suggests that English might best fit "large, widespread languages that are often learned by adults" which "may become simplified" per citation (14), and if that's truly the general systems case then you'd expect borrowing, or the robustness thereof, to decrease in the long term.)
Anyway, I'd need you to specify your question more. Then I can ask Google Scholar :). SamuelRiv (talk) 15:13, 15 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
There's a classification of "unadapted borrowing" on Wiktionary, but I think it's more about spelling and orthography than phonetics. Most borrowings would be adapted in some way to the language in which it is borrowed, is my impression. 惑乱 Wakuran (talk) 19:38, 15 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Question 6

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6: Do phenomena such as contraction of certain vowel combinations, elision of some word-final short vowels, and crasis still occur in modern Greek? Primal Groudon (talk) 22:24, 14 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

We see, also in Modern Greek, αγαπώ next to αγαπάω, and Νικόλας < Νικόλαος.
Crasis and other forms of final-vowel ellipsis are fairly common, as e.g. in πάρ το < πάρε το, τ’ όνειρο < το όνειρο, and ουτ’ αυτό < ούτε αυτό. Note that crasis is marked orthographically by an apostrophe, unlike other forms of ellipsis. It is also fairly common to omit the space: τ’όνειρο, ουτ’αυτό.  --Lambiam 03:10, 15 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

September 16

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Why is "some" not an article?

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"The" can be singular or plural:

  • I see the crow
  • I see the crows

But "a"/"an" can only be singular:

  • I see a crow
  • *I see a crows

Instead, in the last case, we'd use "some":

  • I see some crows

So, if "the" and "a" are articles, why is "some" not an article? Marnanel (talk) 15:28, 16 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The plural equivalent of "I see a crow" is simply "I see crows". Some specifies indefiniteness but also quantity, just like four—which makes it a determinative, but not an article. Remsense ‥  15:34, 16 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
(edit conflict) Article (grammar)#Partitive article. 2A02:C7B:223:9900:6CC3:8F33:6056:E8EA (talk) 15:39, 16 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The word “some” can also be used in the singular, like in “Some guy dropped this package off at the front desk earlier.” I would still consider it a demonstrative, however. Primal Groudon (talk) 15:39, 16 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

September 17

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Spanish diphthongs

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In Spanish, a high vowel (i or u) is normally pronounced as a semivowel (/j/ or /w/) when before another vowel. For example, seria is pronounced /ˈse.rja/. If there is an acute accent, then the vowels form a hiatus and first vowel is stressed, like in sería /se.ˈri.a/. But are there any words where second vowel of hiatus is stressed or both vowels of hiatus are unstressed, like /se.ri.ˈa/ or /ˈse.ri.a/? Is there a way to indicate them in spelling? --40bus (talk) 13:19, 17 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I don't speak Spanish and I don't really understand their use of acute accents to indicate the stress. But in Portuguese you can have a word like aula (class) and saúde (health), in which there is a hiatus between the vowels and the second is stressed. And of course, in a word like glória (glory) neither of the final vowels is stressed. 2A02:C7B:223:9900:A88D:8EE5:E75B:3C1A (talk) 16:03, 17 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Identification of Subject based on Chinese text

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Hi. I'm writing an article on the painter Gao Qifeng, and I was looking through older copies of The Young Companion for free images. Unfortunately, the transliteration system they used does not reflect the modern system (they render his name Kao instead of Gao), and I can't read the original Chinese. I've found two that seem to be his brother, Jianfu (top left, bottom right), based on the glasses. This one may be Qifeng. Would someone who reads Chinese be able to confirm? — Chris Woodrich (talk) 17:53, 17 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

This website has a very similar photo and gives the name in Chinese characters as 高奇峰. The characters in your link are rather hard to make out and they may be traditional rather than simplified. No, characters 4 and 5 in the caption are qi gao, with feng missing. --Wrongfilter (talk) 19:04, 17 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Yes, between the scan quality and the magazine being 90 years old, it is hard to read. I do have 高奇峰 in my notes as well, based on ZH-Wiki, so it's good to confirm that. Qi Gao seems to be a confirmation, which is good. (Wish I'd realized they'd written right-to-left... could have caught that). — Chris Woodrich (talk) 19:48, 17 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The "feng" character in the magazine caption is written wikt:峯, which seems to be one of the traditional equivalents of simplified wikt:峰 (same visual components, only with the radical on top). The whole caption reads, transposed from right-to-left into left-to-right order: "畫家高奇峯氏近影" (simplified: "画家高奇峰氏近影"), which does seem to translate to what the English above says, "Recent photo of painter Gao Qifeng". Fut.Perf. 20:23, 17 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]


September 19

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Entertainment

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September 9

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IMDb submitting problem.

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When I've been trying to submit things on IMDb for the past two days it keeps on declining on every submission I make and there not telling me what I'm doing wrong. Matthew John Drummond (talk) 09:19, 9 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

That sounds like a problem that IMDB, not Wikipedia, might be able to assist you with. --Viennese Waltz 09:39, 9 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

September 14

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Film identification

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I saved a Mexican(?) film about street kids(?) who steal some money from a church(?) to buy a lottery ticket, but when I finally got around to watching it, it had been deleted automatically to make more room. It's not in Category:Films about lotteries and my searching has been fruitless. Any ideas? Clarityfiend (talk) 23:14, 14 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Is there a category about Mexican films or Latin American films? ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots02:32, 15 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
We have Category:Mexican films with many subcats.  --Lambiam 03:43, 15 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Is this Los Olvidados? The plot summary in our article doesn't say anything about lottery tickets, but it does say that an early version of the script included a boy selling lottery tickets. --Viennese Waltz 07:33, 15 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
No. I'm fairly certain that the plot revolves around the lottery ticket. Clarityfiend (talk) 10:35, 15 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]


September 19

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Miscellaneous

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September 5

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welcome template

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What are the most used Welcome templates? 2603:8001:6940:2100:7C09:7771:CAEC:BA36 (talk) 01:02, 5 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

There are too many; WP:WT list 35 "general" ones and many more special ones. Since they are supposed to be subst:ed, it is not easy to count the uses, but I think simply {{subst:Welcome}} is by far the most commonly used, and then probably {{subst:Welcome cookie}} and {{subst:Welcome-t}}.  --Lambiam 09:12, 5 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I asked this because Of these tiny! templates used for replying in dicussions and noticeboards and I'm trying to find the perfect one. 2603:8001:6940:2100:3231:35E2:C35B:EC74 (talk) 17:18, 7 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
more please 2603:8001:6940:2100:3231:35E2:C35B:EC74 (talk) 17:18, 7 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

September 7

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Give me some examples of former admins who “turned to the dark side” by vandalizing pages, causing them to get blocked.

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Just out of curiosity 74.12.82.205 (talk) 17:03, 7 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It is a little-know "fact" that a certain Sith lord kept on committing vandalism even after being blocked by creating a sockpuppet: User:Darth Evader. Clarityfiend (talk) 23:00, 7 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
We admins are "the dark side". Mjroots (talk) 18:03, 9 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Racism against the Duchess of Sussex

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Has there been racism against the marriage of Prince Harry, Duke of Sussex and Meghan, Duchess of Sussex due to Meghan being half-black on her mother's side? 86.130.217.84 (talk) 18:30, 7 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

A quote from Oprah with Meghan and Harry: "Moreover, Meghan critiqued the British monarchy as an institution, while they both said one or more comments had been made privately to Harry by an unidentified individual within the royal family in relation to the skin color of their then-unborn son, Prince Archie."  --Lambiam 20:58, 7 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Consider also the fate of BBC Radio presenter Danny Baker, whose career was terminated after a rascist tweet about the Sussex's newborn son: Danny Baker fired by BBC over royal baby chimp tweet. Alansplodge (talk) 15:29, 8 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Claims of racism by M&H against the RF have been widely dismissed by those outside M&H's circle. Mjroots (talk) 18:02, 9 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

September 8

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Why are Calico cats always female?

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Meanwhile, other animals with the “Calico/Tricolor Pattern” can be male, including Dogs, Rabbits, and Guinea Pigs. 74.12.82.205 (talk) 18:19, 8 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

A Calico cat is almost always female because being the colors are linked to the cat's sex chromosomes, specifically the X chromosomes. Male cats can be calico but it'd be due to a genetic disorder that causes them to have multiple X chromosomes. - Purplewowies (talk) 18:52, 8 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I’ve seen that detail online before. Additionally, can tricolor Guinea Pigs, Dogs, and Rabbits be male? 74.12.82.205 (talk) 19:36, 8 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Googling the subject of "calico" dogs, there's a quora answer[38] that says the sources of the tri-color in dogs are not tied to the X-chromosomes like they are in cats. You could probably check Google for other animals as well. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots21:02, 8 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Tricolor isn't sex-linked in guinea pigs, dogs, or rabbits. --jpgordon𝄢𝄆𝄐𝄇 00:11, 15 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

September 9

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Was Wilbur "Bud" E. Dutton a US government employee?

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I have some images at Commons in Commons:Category:Photographs by Wilbur E. Dutton. When they were automatically uploaded, the source had incorrect 1900 dates. The dates have since been corrected to the '60s and '70s, so these are copyrighted unless the photographer was a government employee. The fact that the images come from NPGallery suggests that he might have been, but doesn't guarantee it. I didn't turn up any information about the photographer with some quick Googling. Can anybody with some more research skills find any information about him? – BMacZero (🗩) 19:57, 9 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Dutton is listed here as Production Manager in the Division of Audovisual Arts in a Directory of the National Park Service from the 1960s, so he was clearly a federal employee. He is also mentioned here (p. 46) as member of (apparently) an NPS team taping interviews with Rose Kennedy in 1967–8 in the context of the project of making JFK's birthplace a National Historic Site. Not to be confused with Wilmer Coffman (Bud) Dutton, Staff Director of the NCPC from 1962 to 1965, and in that position also a federal employee.  --Lambiam 22:23, 9 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Lambiam: Great source, thanks a lot for your help! – BMacZero (🗩) 23:44, 9 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Were these pics taken on behalf of the government, or were they just personal snapshots? ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots22:44, 9 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Baseball Bugs: Yeah, that's also a consideration. Because these uploads are coming from NPGallery, which is an official database of the National Park Service, I've been comfortable assuming that they are not personal photographs, at least if photography could conceivably have been one of the author's official duties. It seems unlikely that a photographer for the NPS would upload personal photos to the NPS's official database. – BMacZero (🗩) 23:44, 9 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The photographs by Dutton in the NPGallery are presented with the boilerplate No Copyright - United States text: "The organization that has made the Item available believes that the Item is in the Public Domain under the laws of the United States". In this case, "the organization" is the NPS, and the only plausible explanation for their belief is that they know, or have reason to believe, that Dutton shot them in his capacity as NPS employee.  --Lambiam 08:03, 10 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

September 11

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Question about a drumming effect

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On some songs, drummers use an effect that seems to increase the pace of the music, while actually keeping the same time. As I have no musical training at all, I'll make an effort to describe it... bear with me... it's a couple of extra beats, perhaps including a drum with a deeper tone.

Maybe this will help more. Phil Collins uses this effect quite often in his version of You Can't Hurry Love.

So... what's that called?

--Dweller (talk) Old fashioned is the new thing! 09:07, 11 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Maybe syncopation? 196.50.199.218 (talk) 13:01, 11 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
(edit conflict) Here's the Supremes version for comparison [39]. 2A00:23D0:D7F:1901:3DA8:CEC:84B0:B7E7 (talk) 13:09, 11 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
By no means a reliable source but here is a blog that discusses it. https://www.musicology.blog/behind-the-beat-unraveling-the-timeless-appeal-of-phil-collins-cant-hurry-love/ 196.50.199.218 (talk) 13:30, 11 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Yea, it says: "The tempo of "Can't Hurry Love" is a lively 194 beats per minute (BPM), which contributes to the energetic and danceable nature of the song. It’s worth noting that this tempo is slightly faster than The Supremes’ 1966 original, which had a BPM of 181, giving Collins’ version an added sense of urgency and excitement. The song's drumbeat is particularly interesting, featuring a syncopated rhythm that emphasizes the upbeat and propels the song forward. Collins, being a drummer himself, adds his own personal touch to this element of the song." Martinevans123 (talk) 13:36, 11 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I've been searching, but I can't find a book we have on Motown with lengthy interviews with Holland and Dozier. I remember that one of them claimed that because they normally worked with the singers and musicians separately the other one had Diana Ross singing to a half-speed beat. Then, the music was recorded at full speed. Combined, her vocals fit the beat well, but the lull in her voice introduced tension because it wasn't fitting perfectly with the syncopated drums that all of the instruments were playing along with. I hope we didn't lose that book. It had all kinds of interesting tidbits like purposely making Levi Stubbs sing above his normal range to make it sound more emotional. 75.136.148.8 (talk) 14:18, 11 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry for not referring to the question though. Syncopation accents the offbeat. If you omit the down beat consistently, it is commonly referred to as playing on the backbeat (very popular in early rock and roll). The beat in You Can't Hurry Love doesn't omit the down beat. It keeps it for most of the rhythm, then omits it once followed by a backbeat fill. That missing beat followed by the fill makes it seem more anxious or peppy. That is why that specific beat was used in many other songs, notably Lust for Live and Are You Going to Be My Girl. Trivia bit: VOA used it in on-air station identification morse-code (fake code, not a real message) in the 70s. Some have claimed that while in Germany, Bowie and Pop heard VOA's ads and lifted the beat from there instead of lifting it directly from You Can't Hurry Love. 75.136.148.8 (talk) 14:25, 11 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Flams? [40] Martinevans123 (talk) 13:24, 11 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Some truly excellent and informative responses already here. Shame I don't give out awards for Ref Desk threads any more. --Dweller (talk) Old fashioned is the new thing! 11:05, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Do you mean gated reverb? Collins was instrumental (ugh, sorry) in developing and popularizing the effect. Matt Deres (talk) 15:37, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

September 12

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Le Lyonnais shipwreck

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Hi, I was curious about the recent discovery of a shipwreck that occurred on 2 November, 1856: [41]. I cannot find mention in Wikipedia (neither EN nor FR) of either the wrecked French ship, Le Lyonnais, nor the American ship Adriatic, though there are several British ships by that name. The above article states 114 people died of the 132 passengers and crew, so this was a tragic and major event. Could you help me confirm this is not already in Wikipedia somewhere, before I attempt to draft a new article? Harris7 (talk) 11:55, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Adriatic (ship). 2A00:23C5:E161:9200:4553:8C87:5013:6612 (talk) 12:06, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks! I see now that "just one more search" (for the string "le lyonnais" within any article, rather than page title) would have led me to that article. Harris7 (talk) 12:14, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Harris7: Lyonnais is listed at List of shipwrecks in November 1856#4 November. Mjroots (talk) 17:23, 13 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Quotes on astrology

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Hi, I would like to find the original authors of two quotes on astrology:

  • A planet does not have any astrological influence until it is discovered
    —misattributed to Linda Goodman in Weird Science by Michael White
  • Stars remember the influence of the constellations that corresponded to them two thousand years ago
    —attributed to some "siderealtropical" astrologer in Science and the Paranormal, edited by G. O. Abell and B. Singer.

-- Carnby (talk) 20:22, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

How do you know the first one was misattributed? -- Jack of Oz [pleasantries] 03:20, 13 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I checked Weird Science on Internet Archive. Attribution was: Linda Goodman's Star Signs NY: Bantam Books 1968 (no pages). First edition of Star Signs was published in 1988 (St. Martin Press, N.Y.); in 1968 Goodman published Sun Signs (Taplinger, N.Y.). However, neither books contain that statement. Carnby (talk) 06:39, 13 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The concept is at least implied in Star Signs in various places where it prognosticates the discovery of a planet which will change the rules. For instance, "The Number 6 vibrates to the planet Venus. It represents the feminine essence, compassion, and (until Venus gives up her rulership of Taurus when the planet Pan-Horus is discovered) also money." In Sun Signs I found the concept stated in detail: "It's important to mention here the still unseen planet Vulcan, the true ruler of Virgo, since its discovery is said to be imminent. The discovery of the true ruler of a sign changes the characteristics of those born under it. To give only one example, during the period when both Aquarius and Capricorn were ruled by Saturn, the February-born, such as Abraham Lincoln, clearly showed the melancholy traits of that planet. But when Uranus (the symbol of electronics and space, and the true ruler of Aquarius) was discovered—in its proper time in the universal plan—Aquarians began to reflect qualities of restless discovery, and a more electric, unpredictable, progressive personality, such as that of Uranus-ruled Aquarian Franklin D. Roosevelt."  Card Zero  (talk) 08:29, 13 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I have seen the argument, in which it suggested that due to the precession of the equinoxes the traits of the signs of the tropical zodiac (sun signs) are based on the alleged properties of the constellations they are named after but which they no longer occupy, so the predictions are based on "the properties of empty space." The answer was that the modern sun signs are not devoid of stars. In any event, astrologers make predictions based on the positions of the "planets" (including the sun and moon) and the angles (aspects) between them, which are unaffected by precession. Sidereal astrology does not have this problem. 2A00:23C5:E161:9200:80BA:5D7D:BDC5:5EAA (talk) 12:26, 13 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Colour of mixed race South Asians and Native Americans

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Is it possible that most mixed race South Asians (e.g. Indians & Pakistanis) and Native Americans can either be white or have the same skin and hair colour as all Asians and Natives? 86.130.217.84 (talk) 20:41, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

You asked in your previous question how skin color was inherited, and I answered. The answer is the same. SamuelRiv (talk) 21:14, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The mixed-race South Asian and Native American actors and characters I've noticed were... In the film East Is East, the Khan children with a Pakistani father and white English mother, who had the same colours as their father's. Jimi Mistry, born of an Irish mother. Emil Marwa with an Indian Kenyan father and mother of Norwegian descent. Zita Sattar with a British mother and Pakistani father. In the Bonanza episode The Underdog, Harry Starr (Charles Bronson), born of a Comanche father and white mother and in The Burning Sky, Aaron Gore (Victor French) who had a Sioux mother. In Chato's Land, Chato (Charles Bronson), who is half-Apache. In Big Jake, O'Brien (Glenn Corbett), a half-breed Apache born of a Chiricahua mother and Irish father. In the Little House on the Prairie episode Injun Kid, Spotted-Eagle/Joseph Stokes, born of a Sioux father and white mother. And according to a get.tv article, Chuck Norris was born to an Irish mother and a Cherokee father and kids always called him a half-breed. And I think his Walker, Texas Ranger character was part-Cherokee. 86.130.185.199 (talk) 19:48, 14 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

September 13

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User interactions

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Is there some way to find all the times a given user has ever posted on another user's talk page? ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots04:11, 13 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Isn't that more of a help desk kind of question? --Viennese Waltz 05:20, 13 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Could be. I'll try there. Thanks! ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots05:25, 13 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The "editorinteract" tool may be useful. You input the names of the editors you are interested in and it links to their edits noting the time difference between the edits of the different editors. Alternatively, you can check the revision history of the relevant user talk page, which doesn't take long. 2A00:23C5:E161:9200:80BA:5D7D:BDC5:5EAA (talk) 12:18, 13 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Probably still easier, use Special:Contributions/Example (substitute user name for "Example") and under Search for contributions, select Namespace: User talk and press  Search  . Ignore edits of User talk:Example.  --Lambiam 13:58, 13 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you all, for your help. I'm specifically trying to find where SamuelRiv and I have ever interacted, since he claims we have, but I don't remember it. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots15:45, 13 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The two of you have contributed to the same discussions, e.g. recently at WP:RD/H#One of my favorite goals, WP:RD/M#Dark-skinned mixed black-white people and WP:RD/S#Cat. But there are also several older instances at the Ref Desk talk page, such as Wikipedia talk:Reference desk/Archive 72#Attacking the OP, Wikipedia talk:Reference desk/Archive 72#Delete banned user question, Wikipedia talk:Reference desk/Archive 73#Troll or dwarf at work, Wikipedia talk:Reference desk/Archive 73#Purpose creep, Wikipedia talk:Reference desk/Archive 73#Fixing grammar, general bitterness, Wikipedia talk:Reference desk/Archive 81#EDITABLE responses, Wikipedia talk:Reference desk/Archive 88#Deleted question about American English. And then there was this, which you promptly reverted and then apparently forgot all about.  --Lambiam 18:45, 13 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you for digging up that old stuff from 12-14 years ago, however you got it. Most of it happened to be in the same section, though not much direct interaction, so the user name did not stick with me. Likewise for the stuff from the last few days, until he started coming after me for reasons that remain unclear. As for the 2022 item, I don't recall it, but probably the vague nature of it (similar to his recent comments) led me to figure it was not worth spending my time on. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots19:14, 13 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I'm also thinking maybe this belongs on the ref desk talk page instead of here, but that's up to you all. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots19:17, 13 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

September 16

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Update on Americans left behind in Afghanistan?

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Does anyone have any info on how many Americans escaped or were rescued from Afghanistan since 9/1/2021? I was able to find this report https://www.politico.com/news/2022/08/14/afghanistan-800-evacuated-taliban-00051525 which says that up to 1000 may have been rescued as of 8/14/2022 (just a little shy of 1 year later), but nothing whatsoever about anyone being rescued after that point -- does anyone happen to have any more recent data? 2601:646:8082:BA0:8DD6:288C:9231:9FF3 (talk) 02:42, 16 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

According to this, the number in 2023 is 6000. Despite the wording, I assume this includes people who evacuated themselves via any means necessary.
According to this article, an American went back to Afghanistan voluntarily, after the Taliban rule started there. In January 2023 the US government ended relations with the Taliban, so even an attempt at contact with this American (who was arrested by the Taliban soon after arriving) had to go through Qatari intermediaries. So it's unlikely we'll have more data apart from rare reports like the one cited by Axios. --Komonzia (talk) 03:27, 16 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks! So, 5x as many Americans escaped in the second year as in the first -- is that right? Any info on when was the most recent known escape/rescue of Americans from Afghanistan? I want to know whether this is still ongoing, or whether it has ended since the Axios report (i.e. whether there is still hope that some of the missing Americans might still get out, or not!) 2601:646:8082:BA0:8DD6:288C:9231:9FF3 (talk) 08:27, 17 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Ohio electoral College ballot

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Hi. I was focusing on the Ohio electoral College ballot. I'm assuming that the law binding the Electors is recent, but that's not what I'm interested in. I'm interested in another thing; has the ballot always been like this and with this voting pattern? Thank you. https://www.google.it/search?client=safari&sca_esv=d952126bfb55194b&channel=iphone_bm&sxsrf=ADLYWII5zLiXk7noxSfdtgkxZ-Cc0BsHrw:1726498793319&q=ohio+electoral+college+ballot&udm=2&fbs=AEQNm0Be9hsxO5zOUoY5v2srYNPRTu3Itgszrbw0RIeZwqqIPwewOjDw9o0IZmt1hLTj6iHT9JmUe2o4jjqKop5JThr7Pb10lnLYDtef36mVAsAvy7E2KdWhU9UBYe9Xa7U1cdI66e8o3K_FSUcxSILkZ2KDIUwMmCrtwUyl9iv-YZSVSY8DQ-E&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwitnp-a3ceIAxXZ8rsIHaidBLIQtKgLegQIDhAB&biw=2133&bih=1021&dpr=0.9#vhid=Ee7trIRML2RWaM&vssid=mosaic Andreoto (talk) 19:16, 16 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I can't get a clear view of the elector's ballot. Is it the inset image on the google search? I'm not confident it will be the same for both of us, always, and the link to the Columbus Dispatch article does not have the image in it. SamuelRiv (talk) 21:02, 16 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
This one is different; it is from December 2016. But it is not different; in fact, it is identical in the expression of the vote. Has it always been like this? https://x.com/JonHusted/status/810835549141483520
It appears that you are referring to the paper submitted by the electors to Congress. They are not official and are mainly ceremonial. They are often printed on heavy stock paper so they can be framed by the electors to keep after the election. The votes are supposed to be delivered to Congress from each state, then delivered to the Senate for a joint session, where the President of the Senate opens and reads each vote. Nothing at a Federal level states what kind of paper or decoration must be used. It must state who the vote is for and which state the elector's vote is from. Everything else is just fluff. Some states double it up. Arizona, as an example, sends a certified statement of their entire vote, signed by each elector. Separately, each elector receives a fancy certificate to keep. It should also be pointed out that in every election, crazy people send in fake electorial election papers to try and mess with the election, as if Congress would actually be fooled by such nonsense. 75.136.148.8 (talk) 22:09, 16 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you. But the image in the link depicts presidential electors ballots, they are not documents. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Andreoto (talkcontribs) 15:38, 17 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Correction to my request. Was the Ohio ballot, in the past, also designed for a possible faithless elector, or has it always been as it is at present, where the Elector only has to affix his signature to cast his vote? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Andreoto (talkcontribs) 19:45, 17 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

September 17

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Worldle

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Why, when i enter "worldle" (no quotes and NOT wordle) into the wikipedia search text box does it say it is a web based number game? It isn't. The article correctly says it is a geography game. -- 2A00:23CC:D222:4701:2124:F3FE:E0E9:CBB (talk) 23:13, 17 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It looks correct to me. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots01:08, 18 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The description in the search box is based on the {{Short description}} in the article. I've changed that to say "geography game".-Gadfium (talk) 03:54, 18 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I see your edit in the diff, but I don't see it in the article. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots06:29, 18 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
It's only visible in the wiki text. If you still see {{Short description|2022 web-based geography game}}, you may need to clear your cache.  --Lambiam 09:34, 18 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Thx 2A00:23CC:D222:4701:2124:F3FE:E0E9:CBB (talk) 06:06, 18 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

September 18

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Samsung Bespoke AI Laundry Blue Silicone Cup

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We replaced our old washer/dryer with a Samsung Bespoke AI Laundry unit. It comes with a blue silicone cup. I can't find any mention of it in the installation or user guides. I have searched videos. I found one where the blue cup was sitting on top of the unit, but was never mentioned. I'm trying to figure out what the cup is for. I assume it has something to do with the operation of the unit or it wouldn't be included. But, if that was the case, it would be mentioned somewhere. It isn't even mentioned in the packing list, but I can see that at least one other person received one with their unit. Can anyone find any resource that mentions what the cup is supposed to be used for? 75.136.148.8 (talk) 12:06, 18 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Of course, as soon as I ask, Google image search leads me to the answer. It is a Samsung Aqua Pebble. 75.136.148.8 (talk) 12:21, 18 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Resolved

September 19

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