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Archived discussion for June 2008 from Wikipedia:In the news section on the Main Page/Candidates.

June 30

June 30, 2008 (2008-06-30) (Monday)

ITN Candidates for June 30

June 29

June 29, 2008 (2008-06-29) (Sunday)

ITN Candidates for June 29

It's official, he's been sworn in. I've added it above, feel free to change the wording, but it should go on the main page ASAP. Rawr (talk) 17:05, 29 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Posted.--Pharos (talk) 20:44, 29 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Should know the result in 5 hours or so. -CWY2190(talk • contributions) 17:03, 29 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I propose adding the score in as well and a change for the naming of Euro 2008 e.g. "*Germany/Spain defeats Germany/Spain 3-0 to win the European football championship." bsrboy (talk) 17:52, 29 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Why isn't this on the Main Page yet? bsrboy (talk) 20:45, 29 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
The article on the final probably needs expanded a little bit more. -CWY2190(talk • contributions) 21:05, 29 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
(edit conflict) Posted. I highlighted the article on the whole championship rather than the one on the final, because it is much better developed.--Pharos (talk) 21:07, 29 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Shouldn't it be at the top, because it happened after the Zimbabwe elections? bsrboy (talk) 21:26, 29 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Is the part about who scored the goal needed? --PlasmaTwa2 22:55, 29 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
How on Earth was this added? UEFA Euro 2008#Final has ABSOLUTELY NO PROSE! --Howard the Duck 03:11, 30 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Shit on a shingle, he's right. I need to go home and get a broom; it's shenanigans. --PlasmaTwa2 03:47, 30 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

June 28

June 28, 2008 (2008-06-28) (Saturday)

ITN Candidates for June 28

Is there an article for the new assembly the Serbs created? SpencerT♦C 01:54, 29 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Not as far as I can see. But it is mentioned at the end of the article North Kosovo. Narayanese (talk) 08:36, 29 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Kosovan Serb Assembly, but it could use some expansion.--Pharos (talk) 22:15, 29 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
It's now Community Assembly of Kosovo and Metohija and it looks pretty decent now. SpencerT♦C 15:28, 30 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
The article currently does not support the wording of the blurb. - BanyanTree 02:07, 1 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • I nominate the following update on Amarnath controversy:

The state government of India's Jammu and Kashmir has rebuked the decision to transfer forested land to Amarnath shrine following wide protests across the state. --Emperor Genius (talk) 15:25, 29 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Posted update.--Pharos (talk) 20:55, 29 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

June 27

June 27, 2008 (2008-06-27) (Friday)

ITN Candidates for June 27

Support, bold 'nuclear weapons program' in hook, please? BobAmnertiopsisChitChat Me! 18:27, 27 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Note: not mentioned in the North Korea nuclear weapons program article. And in Yongbyon Nuclear Scientific Research Center, there's three sentences and no ref. Oppose as of now. SpencerT♦C 19:30, 27 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. The destruction of the cooling tower is symbolic, not substantive. Anyone who has followed the tangled history of the North Korean nuclear program should be highly skeptical of whether this actually "signals the end of the North Korean nuclear weapon program." The whole thing looks like a political show to me. In fact, the Americans actually paid the North Koreans $2.5 million to destroy the tower. Although the story is now referenced on Yongbyon Nuclear Scientific Research Center, I think there are more important, substantive stories out there.--Cdogsimmons (talk) 15:58, 29 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Please add this blurb to the Current events portal and then suggest the item here, being sure to bold the link to the article that has been updated. Thanks, BanyanTree 17:47, 28 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Done. What happens now? --Avala (talk) 00:42, 29 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Well, there's a single sentence in the article mentioning this, and for ITN, there has to at minimum be a solid paragraph (with multiple refs). If you could possibly expand this... SpencerT♦C 01:53, 29 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Done that too.--Avala (talk) 12:27, 29 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks, posted.--Pharos (talk) 20:49, 29 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks but please change "appoints" to "names" as the reference says, because President is not the only on in the appointment process. Assembly has to approve the person named by President and until assembly approves it he is "mandatar" (Prime Minister-in-waiting). According to Constitution President can't name anyone if he has no assurance that such proposal will pass in the Assembly (on the other hand he can stall and not name anyone and force a new election) so it is de facto appointment but de jure it's naming.--Avala (talk) 20:59, 29 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
OK done, thanks for clarifying.--Pharos (talk) 21:16, 29 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

June 26

June 26, 2008 (2008-06-26) (Thursday)

ITN Candidates for June 26

Nominate the decision of District of Columbia v. Heller which is a significant and long-awaited decision by the United States Supreme Court regarding the right to keep and bear arms embodied in the Second Amendment of the United States Constitution.--Cdogsimmons (talk) 16:08, 26 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Tentative support I think this is of international interest. Europeans in particular think Americans' lack of gun control (a real outlier among developed countries) is insane. Mangostar (talk) 16:12, 26 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Note that this is actually the first time that the court has asserted an individual right to bear arms, which is highly significant.--Pharos (talk) 16:56, 26 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Strong Support. This is a very historical ruling. -CWY2190(talk • contributions) 17:32, 26 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Support as most interesting item of the day. Hobartimus (talk) 18:40, 26 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Also, a very well updated article, mentioning the ruling, some reactions, and possible implications. Random89 18:49, 26 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Support (I am European and think this is interesting). How about the formulation
In District of Columbia v. Heller the United States Supreme Court rules that the Second Amendment of the United States Constitution protects an individual right to possess a firearm for private use. The decision is expected to have consequences for other firearm bans in the United States.
Thue | talk 21:09, 26 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Posted.--Pharos (talk) 01:49, 27 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]


June 25

June 25, 2008 (2008-06-25) (Wednesday)

ITN Candidates for June 25

Flag of New Zealand
Flag of New Zealand
A flag picture wouldn't be recommended in this setting. SpencerT♦C 13:28, 25 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
The Treaty of Waitangi claims and settlements article has not yet been updated, which is a necessary prerequisite for items to appear on ITN. Thanks.--Pharos (talk) 14:26, 25 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Marginally updated. Timer's up and I'll go with this marginal item rather than the other since I really can't stand people who complain about how I'm too racist to post their item as they nominate it. Posted to the end of the template, where it may just fit. - BanyanTree 02:20, 1 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Okay. SpencerT♦C 16:31, 1 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Posted.--Pharos (talk) 01:59, 26 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Was even expanded even more. Great! SpencerT♦C 14:01, 26 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Don't really see anything wrong with this. SpencerT♦C 14:10, 26 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Wow, that red timer is really startling on my user page. Posted. - BanyanTree 17:46, 28 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks. The timer was quite annoying. SpencerT♦C 20:00, 28 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Nawaz Sharif
Nawaz Sharif
Since they're actually holding the elections other than Sharif's seat today (the BBC story wasn't clear on this before), I've updated this for June 26.--Pharos (talk) 01:05, 29 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Commons:Image:Cave Temple of Lord Amarnath.jpg has been on ITN for two days now. Can we switch to a picture of Nawaz Sharif (right), please? --199.71.174.100 (talk) 21:00, 28 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose per the discussion on the talk page. --PlasmaTwa2 01:29, 26 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

June 24

June 24, 2008 (2008-06-24) (Tuesday)

ITN Candidates for June 24

Can a cut version of this NASA photo of the water on Mars be used for the image? BobAmnertiopsisChitChat Me! 20:37, 24 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

It lookd fine in the small scale, licence is ok, illustrates the blurb -> support. --Tone 22:31, 24 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
The relevant part of the picture is entirely invisible at this scale. The picture without explanation tells the visitor to the page absolutely nothing. At the moment it looks like two identical white-smearer scrapes in dirt. Kevin McE (talk) 05:54, 25
I'm not seeing how this has much international interest or significance. SpencerT♦C 14:11, 26 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

June 23

June 23, 2008 (2008-06-23) (Monday)

ITN Candidates for June 23

Support if updated If I'm not mistaken, he was still performing regularly. The death seems pretty sudden (same day he was admitted to the hospital). Still needs more than two sentences, however. Teemu08 (talk) 16:46, 23 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Ditto. Needs an update before it can go up. Random89 18:56, 23 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Strong support if updated. Agree with Teemu, must be longer, but Carlin's influence on popular culture and modern comedy is undeniable and quite significant. Kntrabssi (talk) 19:08, 23 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Should we mention the seven words thing? He was pretty famous because of that. SpencerT♦C 19:17, 23 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Support, as above. I think the "seven words" bit would be too much information for a blurb. --Bongwarrior (talk) 19:47, 23 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose, no international impact Naerii 23:55, 23 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
What Naerii said. --Howard the Duck 07:33, 24 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Support in principle maybe this is stale now, but I think Carlin is significant enough to merit mention (per article, ranked 2nd greatest stand-up comedian ever). Too bad we missed a shot at the death reform... Mangostar (talk) 07:43, 25 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Opppose A 71 year old dying of heart failure is not unexpected by any stretch of imagination. Nil Einne (talk) 03:14, 26 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I think this is the main problem with our death criteria--why is unexpected so important? Mangostar (talk) 16:16, 26 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
It was a shame that the issues with Boumediene v. Bush weren't resolved in time to get it on ITN, but this helps make up for it, even if there are now two U.S. judicial blurbs now... Posted. - BanyanTree 18:15, 28 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

June 22

June 22, 2008 (2008-06-22) (Sunday)

ITN Candidates for June 22

Thue | talk 17:08, 22 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Also mention that Mugabe wins by default. --Howard the Duck 17:13, 22 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Support, but the section mentioning the withdrawl needs to be expanded. SpencerT♦C 17:30, 22 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Definitely. It currently says for example "Despite Tsvangirai's continuing claims to have won a first round majority, he is participating in the second round" Nil Einne (talk) 21:21, 22 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Comment According to our article, the Mugabe government (of course in theory this is up to the EC, not the government, but um, you know...) says the runoff will still be held, so Mugabe may not win by default. Nil Einne (talk) 21:20, 22 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Mugabe has not won yet, he has to wait till the results come in. However, there is nothing less then an assassination that will keep him from winning, so for all reasons he has won already. --PlasmaTwa2 21:54, 22 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
If the election goes ahead then it's possible he may not win. Given the current climate, this may seem unlikely but I think it's worth pointing out that a candidate doesn't win by default unless there is no election/no challengers but in this case it appears there will be even though the challenger pulled out (this isn't actually unheard of even in countries without the problems Zimbabwe has since challengers pull out for a variety of reasons but the name will often remain on the ballot if it's already been printed). A good example would be the recent item on a dead man winning in some Polish? election Nil Einne (talk) 09:13, 23 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Romanian mayoral election. But I doubt this would happen here, because most people would not risk intimidation and violence to vote for someone not in the election. Random89 18:55, 23 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I agree (hence my comment this seems unlikely) but the fact remains, Mugabe clearly hasn't won by default Nil Einne (talk) 03:16, 26 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Then how would he lose? Bush Gordon Brown has to drop a rock from outer space and prays it hits Mugabe? --Howard the Duck 17:43, 26 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

June 21

June 21, 2008 (2008-06-21) (Saturday)

ITN Candidates for June 21

Posted. Thanks, Spencer.--Pharos (talk) 00:24, 22 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
You may want to add the sunk ship, MV Princess of the Star, once it gets expanded. --Howard the Duck 04:43, 22 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Can you have the link for the typhoon not go to the 2008 Pacific typhoon season#Typhoon Fengshen (Frank) but to the storms own wiki page, Typhoon Fengshen (2008)? Thanks, BobAmnertiopsisChitChat Me! 17:06, 22 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Posted at the Main page errors page and fixed. SpencerT♦C 01:43, 23 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

June 20

June 20, 2008 (2008-06-20) (Friday)

ITN Candidates for June 20

What would be the central article? Otherwise, it's a good story, if there's an updated article, I support. --Tone 12:40, 20 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
The relevant article would be Cocktail Wars, and I've just added that to the blurb. It hasn't been substantially updated, though, which would be necessary if this were to be posted. Thanks.--Pharos (talk) 13:55, 20 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
It would probably be good if that article mentioned the sanctions at all. --- RockMFR 17:35, 20 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
The article is not updated yet. When it is, I support, this is a good science story. --Tone 23:11, 20 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
The article appears to be updated now.--Pharos (talk) 22:59, 23 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Support. And here's an image. It's NASA, thus PD. BobAmnertiopsisChitChat Me! 00:26, 21 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
It is a current event, but I would question whether it is featuring large in the news. Not in top 26 stories on BBC World news page. As regards the picture, it is an artist's impression, and an artist commissioned by a vested interest at that, therefore neither factual (no-one has seen it looking like that) nor NPOV. Kevin McE (talk) 09:03, 21 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
The article could also use some cleanup, I'll try to work on that. SpencerT♦C 16:30, 21 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I've been doing some cleanup and linking, but I'm probably going to need some more help. The article needs a lot more refs. SpencerT♦C 16:44, 21 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

June 19

June 19, 2008 (2008-06-19) (Thursday)

ITN Candidates for June 19

Recommendation: How about replacing the picture of Tiger with a map of China, highlighting the two areas (Guangzhou and Shenzhen) that have been hit hardest by the flooding. Why? Because I think pretty much everyone knows what Tiger looks like at this point, and I think most people (def. most Americans, but I would bet in other countries too) have no idea where Guangzhou is. I would imagine that a map like that would be fairly easy to make, although having said that, I have no idea how to do it myself. MookieZ (talk) 05:22, 19 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Maps usually don't look all that great on the template, due to the small size. Is there a actual picture of the flooding? I would support something like that going up. --PlasmaTwa2 05:26, 19 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Maybe an image of ISAF or Taliban troops? I know there's a few floating around. Random89 07:52, 19 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I asked the owner of this image to relicense his image under a free license. J.delanoygabsadds 13:55, 19 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Well, I got the image, but it looks like someone already changed the picture on the main page. If anyone's interested, the image is at Image:Flooding, Shenzhen, China.jpg. J.delanoygabsadds 16:57, 19 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Since Paul Pierce was up for 24 hours, I've rotated it out now and put in the flooding photo.--Pharos (talk) 17:52, 20 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Flag of Niue
Flag of Niue
It might have gone up at the time, but even if it had done, it would have dropped of the bottom of the page by now. But at least now you now where to make the proposal, please keep us alert to such issues. Kevin McE (talk) 11:05, 28 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

June 18

June 18, 2008 (2008-06-18) (Wednesday)

ITN Candidates for June 18

Afghan and Canadian-led ISAF forces begin an offensive against the Taliban in the Arghandab District of Kandahar. --TheFEARgod (Ч) 14:02, 18 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Support Article is updated, pretty important event in Afghanistan (At least to us Canadians, since we're the majority of the NATO forces in the "battle"). I would suggest changing NATO to ISAF, though. And, by the way, the Romanian mayor thing is fucking hilarious. --PlasmaTwa2 17:11, 18 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I agree, I took the liberty of editing the hook to be more accurate and do a better job reflecting exactly what is in the portal blurb. Random89 21:00, 18 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Support, as article is very good, info-wise, and really looks like a good Wikipedia article. Also, good to have some war-related hooks on ITN. BobAmnertiopsisChitChat Me! 21:19, 18 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Posted. This is a good one, thanks.--Pharos (talk) 21:52, 18 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
OK, I've posted this one.--Pharos (talk) 00:35, 22 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I've posted this one.--Pharos (talk) 01:52, 25 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

June 17

June 17, 2008 (2008-06-17) (Tuesday)

ITN Candidates for June 17

NBA Finals

According to my mole the Celtics would win Game 6 so... --Howard the Duck 05:46, 17 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Remember this should only be posted when the article is up to scratch, NOT before Nil Einne (talk) 10:56, 17 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Usually right after the game someone will add a game summary (NBA.com also has a game summary right after the game) so having issues as what happened on the NHL blurb should not (hopefully) happen. --Howard the Duck 14:27, 17 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
It ought to go onto the Current portal first. Kevin McE (talk) 14:34, 17 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
It will fulfill all of the necessary criteria once the game is over (if the Celtics win). This is a routinary post as per WP:ITNSPORTS. --Howard the Duck 14:44, 17 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
And all of the previous games have been sufficiently covered at Portal:Current events/Sports. --Howard the Duck 14:46, 17 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Should we expand the blurb to mention that this would be there 17th title? 5:15 02:25, 18 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
No, that's just trivia. --PlasmaTwa2 05:16, 18 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I thoughtlessly boldly posted a Celtics blurb, but I didn't think to look at the suggestions here first, so I used my own wording. My apologies for that. My (current) version reads: "The Boston Celtics defeat the Los Angeles Lakers in six games to win the 2008 National Basketball Association Finals." I think the wording is okay, but I'll understand completely if there's a more preferred version you'd like to replace it with. --Bongwarrior (talk) 06:50, 18 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
You probably could just shorten it to "NBA". Most people will know what your talking about, I think. --PlasmaTwa2 08:17, 18 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
If it'll be shortened to "NBA" better phrase it as "basketball's NBA Finals" since a lot of people who don't wish to see American sporting events at ITN won't get it. --Howard the Duck 09:07, 18 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
It has nothing to do with what peple want to see: it is to do with avoiding abbreviations that would be unfamiliar to large numbers of readers. Kevin McE (talk) 14:17, 18 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Sure, it has nothing to do with unfamiliar to large numbers of readers. I bet the people who follow the UEFA Champions League would have to think quite an amount of time to remember what "UEFA" means. Lets have a rule to avoid acronyms altogether. --Howard the Duck 14:38, 18 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
But most people know the NBA and the Champions League, but not the National Basketball Association and UEFA. Let's not blindly ban all acronyms.
Let's change this blurb to
No need for complicated piping and unfamiliar wording. --199.71.174.100 (talk) 21:48, 18 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
"most" in your experience may not be universal. Without a context, and Boston Celtics is not an informative context for those unfamiliar with the sport, NBA could mean a number of things. ITN is on the front page, not a section that people seek out because they have a specialised interest. Only the most universally recognised acronyms should be used (USA might get through). Kevin McE (talk) 22:35, 18 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I'd agree, except that, imo, the acronym "NBA" is as widely recognized as USA or BBC. I suppose this is why NBA does not redirect to NBA (disambiguation). Mentioning "basketball" in the ITN headline should give sufficient context, anyways. --199.71.174.100 (talk) 22:42, 18 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Paul Pierce, 2008 NBA Finals MVP
Paul Pierce, 2008 NBA Finals MVP
Can we have a picture of the NBA Finals MVP, Paul Pierce (right, need cropping before use) on ITN, please? Tiger Woods' pic has been on ITN for two days now. --199.71.174.100 (talk) 22:12, 18 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Good idea. Remember to upload the cropped version here first, a commons link is not ok. --Tone 22:24, 18 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
OK, done. Cropped, and posted. But this'll happen quicker in the future if the nominator does the crop beforehand. Thanks.--Pharos (talk) 15:59, 19 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Well, I can't really crop images using my work PC, and as an anon, I cannot upload images. Thank you, David Levy and Pharos, for cropping and posting my suggested pic on ITN. --199.71.174.100 (talk) 23:50, 19 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Flood in China

If flooding in mid-west USA has featured, where the scale is far less dramatic and cost in human life less than 20% of this, it would appear to be parochialism of the wost kind to not include this. Kevin McE (talk) 14:32, 17 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Support, as, like Kevin McE said, it would be absolutely unfair to include the US's flooding but not this. BobAmnertiopsisChitChat Me! 16:06, 17 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Over 1 million displaced => support. Thue | talk 16:39, 17 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Really many catastrophes in China recently... Support inclusion, significant event. --Tone 17:57, 17 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Posted. Please update these articles before nominating them. I had to update this one with the information from the blurb myself.--Pharos (talk) 20:50, 17 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

June 16

June 16, 2008 (2008-06-16) (Monday)

ITN Candidates for June 16

Tiger Woods
Tiger Woods

The 2008 U.S. Open Golf Championship, an approved event on Wikipedia:Sports on ITN, will decided on a playoff on the 16th. I suggest the item mention both Woods and Mediate, no matter who wins. - BanyanTree 04:23, 16 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

How's the blurb above? Support as nominator. -- Grant.Alpaugh 06:25, 16 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
That wording seems about right. There's not really a need for support/opposition for an item here. It's already pre-approved, being listed on the sports page. - BanyanTree 06:57, 16 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
That'll be his, not their before the ordinal number of the victory, but I'm sure the posting admin would notice that. Kevin McE (talk) 12:22, 16 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Woods has won it: blurb adjusted. Kevin McE (talk) 20:30, 16 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Posted. --- RockMFR 20:35, 16 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Support A major sporting event with huge media coverage. --Ryan Delaney talk 05:22, 17 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Support as nominator. The death of a man who has created/been involved with some of the greatest special effects in Hollywood, such as Terminator 2 and Jurassic Park. He arguarably was also one of the tops in his profession still, due to recent work like Iron Man. --PlasmaTwa2 22:33, 16 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
He may be at the top of his field but "suffering for seven years with multiple myeloma" Nil Einne (talk) 04:28, 17 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
So what, the only deaths that can make it on itn are crashes and heart attacks? --PlasmaTwa2 04:31, 17 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
No, the death of people in high ranking office, and deaths which have a major international impact can be on ITN regardless of whether they are unexpected. However, the deaths of people at the top of their field should only be placed on WP:ITN/C if they are unexpected. Tim Russert was perhaps a bit of a borderline case, a better example would be Steve Irwin. Perhaps another example would be Diana although her death could perhaps also be seen to have a major international impact given her involvement in various campaigns. You may want to see Wikipedia:In the news section on the Main Page/Death criteria if you are still confused or don't agree with the current death criteria. Nil Einne (talk) 10:53, 17 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Strange would when Russert can get on it, then. Irwin's was the ultimate unexpected death. We all knew it was going to happen, we just didn't know when. --PlasmaTwa2 17:29, 17 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
No, this death is not a big enough deal to endorse posting obituaries. --Ryan Delaney talk 05:22, 17 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

June 15

June 15, 2008 (2008-06-15) (Sunday)

ITN Candidates for June 15

recognised by 43 United Nations member states.

A new constitution is arguably a more important issue than changes of govt chosen under such a constitution, so if we post changes of government, we should post substantial changes of constitution at a formative stage of a nation's history. I believe my suggested phrasing is sufficiently NPOV, but in the light of the sensitivity of the issue, it would be good to have opinions on it. Kevin McE (talk) 17:01, 15 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Support Therequiembellishere (talk) 18:06, 15 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose, solely because Kosovo is not its own country (At least in my opinion) --PlasmaTwa2 23:09, 15 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
My suggested phrasing deliberately acknowledged the less than universal acceptance of its independence. Kevin McE (talk) 06:21, 16 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Posted. It don't detect a bias in the suggested wording, and the controversial nature of Kosovo's political status is itself one of the things that make the item interesting. Also, 24 hours is up and this is the most reasonable candidate up. Less arguing, more updating and suggesting please. Thanks, BanyanTree 00:45, 16 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Please post this to Portal:Current events, per the procedure posted at the top of the page, and post here emboldening the link to the updated article. - BanyanTree 23:57, 15 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Article bolded.

OK, posted under June 16.--Pharos (talk) 01:10, 20 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

June 14

June 14, 2008 (2008-06-14) (Saturday)

ITN Candidates for June 14

Esbjörn Svensson
Esbjörn Svensson
Support. I suggest: A magnitude 7.0 earthquake shakes Iwate and Miyagi Prefectures on Japan's main island of Honshū. Thue | talk 18:39, 14 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Okay, but we've used the moment magnitude scale in the past, so how about: A magnitude 6.8 Mw earthquake shakes Iwate and Miyagi Prefectures on the Japanese island of Honshū. (6.8 is the magnitude on this scale).SpencerT♦C 19:40, 14 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Posted. Thanks, BanyanTree 00:10, 15 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Hi. Um, how about: "A magnitude 6.8 Mw earthquake occurs in the Iwate and Miyagi Prefectures on the main island of Honshū in Japan", for gramatical and tone-neutrality consistency, or at the very least add a "the" between "shakes" and "Iwate"? Thanks. ~AH1(TCU) 00:58, 15 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Iwate Prefecture and Miyagi Prefecture are proper nouns so don't need the "the". The sentence could also be written "A magnitude 7.0 earthquake shakes the Iwate and Miyagi prefectures on Japan's main island of Honshū," but I don't see the need for a "the" in the current version. Similarly, the template currently states "a tornado hits a Boy Scout camp in Iowa", rather than "a tornado hits a Boy Scout camp in the state of Iowa". Am I missing something grammatically? - BanyanTree 01:11, 15 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

June 13

June 13, 2008 (2008-06-13) (Friday)

ITN Candidates for June 13

Significant implications for 25 nations. Two ministers of state have effectively admitted that the proposal has been rejected by the people. Kevin McE (talk) 12:58, 13 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Definitely will be at the top of ITN soon: do we want to wait a few hours till the result is official or go now that Dermot Ahern has conceded defeat? --jnestorius(talk) 13:31, 13 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Only one constituency still to declare, and even a 100% yes vote there would not tip the balance[2]. It is now mathematically certain, by published figures, that the result will be No. Kevin McE (talk) 16:08, 13 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Official announcement has been given... now Kevin McE (talk) 16:13, 13 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
27 nations, not 25, will be affected (Romania and Bulgaria joined over 18 months ago...) 217.44.234.105 (talk) 17:31, 13 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
This is huge news. Why isn't it up yet? DJLayton4 (talk) 18:04, 13 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Support.--Avala (talk) 17:52, 13 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Added. Thue | talk 18:44, 13 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Russert was at the top of his profession and his unexpected death has dominated news coverage in the United States. If that doesn't meet the ITN death criteria, I don't know what does. Support as nominator. -- Grant.Alpaugh 21:11, 13 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose While certainly a preeminent journalist in the US, and although his death was certainly unexpected, i must oppose this on the grounds that his death will not have a great effect on either journalism in the United States or the politics he covered so extensively. Thethinredline (talk) 22:48, 13 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Support. As the longtime host of the longest-running television show in the world, Russert was indeed an important figure in both journalism and politics. His death impacts both areas significantly. Lovelac7 23:02, 13 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose largely unheard of outside the US. --Stephen 00:18, 14 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Support I am not American but an Israeli living in Israel - yet I believe this event is of worldwide significance. For example, it was the top headling at the BBC World news, and it is reported on Israel's radio news (it was too late for today TV News) and internet news sites. As one of the most important American journalist, Tim Russert was known worldwide, and in recent years could be watched outside Norht America (both through MSNBC on the web, and CNBC on TV). Personally, I will deeply miss him. eman (talk) 01:08, 14 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose per Stephen. Currently not in the top 9 non-UK stories on the BBC: only 3rd on the Americas section (behind R Kelly and flooding). The international interest criteria seems to have been written out of the criteria page as part of the overhaul to present new procedures with little or no discussion. Kevin McE (talk) 08:33, 14 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Support Whether or not his death has international impact is debatable, but the national impact is certain. No matter what criteria for a death making ITN one believes in, I believe that Russert makes it- he was the preeminent person in his (very important, very public) field, and his death was amazingly unexpected. Though I have no evidence to back this up, I think his death will have a larger effect on US journalism than Thethinredline does.
Also note that I would make the blurb something along the lines of Journalist Tim Russert, host of NBC's Meet the Press, dies at age 58., perhaps (or perhaps not) mentioning the cause of death. -- a not-signed-in Kicking222 01:23, 14 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose, mainly because his death is way less notable than many others that have not gone up. Last week it was Yves Saint Laurent, for example. It's not as though a heart attack is some crazy unexpected way to die young either. Plenty of 58-year-olds die of heart attacks, so if one was to oppose Yves Saint Laurent because he was old and expected to die, I don't really see a difference there. Mangostar (talk) 03:43, 14 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Rebuttal. Past precedent is the biggest obstacle to ITN reform. Several editors, including myself, are trying to broaden the death criteria for ITN. However, whenever a notable death occurs, another editor always brings up the "we didn't post so-and-so's death, so we shouldn't post this one either." This argument is flawed. Yes, there were some very important figures whose deaths weren't listed (Saint Laurent, Clarke, Ledger, et al.), but the only way we're going to change this is to Be bold and ignore the mistakes of the past. Lovelac7 04:36, 14 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Comment I don't personally know whether your comment add much to the discussion. Whether or not the death criteria needs reform, it doesn't appear to me like this case is a good example of it. Russert is completely different from Saint Laurent and Clarke who's deaths could hardly be classified as unexpected. Ledger was hardly on the top of his field, unlike Russert appears to be. If you want to argue that it's dumb we may put up Russert but we didn't put up Saint Laurent and Clarke, then go ahead, but that doesn't appear to be your argument Nil Einne (talk) 11:20, 14 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Weak support I don't think it's helpful to bring Saint Laurent, Edmund Hillary, Pavarotti, Arthur C. Clarke, etc into the discussion. Given their age and/or previous medical history, their deaths could hardly be classified as unexpected which was why they were rejected. From the sound of it, Tim Russert's death although perhaps not an extreme shock can still be mostly classified as unexpected. Whether or not they aforementioned people are 'more important' then Russert is therefore completely irrelevant and dumb to even consider. Heath Ledger is a different case. His death was quite clearly unexpected but he was hardly the most noteable of actors (i.e. he was not at the top of his field), and was rejected for this reason. From a brief read through of the above discussion and the article, it appears Russert is probably close to being the top of his field. The article also appears to have a substanial update (although the updated part clearly needs work). Nil Einne (talk) 11:20, 14 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Support. Ordinarily, this should be a no, but from what I have seen, ITN has been flooded with items that have been more parochial in nature recently. I don't see why this one should be any different. (Weren't we supposed to refrain from supports and opposes? Or is that now allowed again?) MookieZ (talk) 12:32, 14 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Support GlassCobra 13:36, 14 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Let's try to refrain from hit and run votes. SpencerT♦C 15:14, 14 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Support This was a sudden death of a person who was the host of the longest running TV show...this clearly qualifies as the sudden death of a person at the top of their field. Meets criteria b. SpencerT♦C 15:14, 14 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Added. -- tariqabjotu 19:48, 14 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
It has since been removed by one of the much maligned "hit-and-run" admins who do not habitually check itn/c. Could someone perhaps put it back on since it seems to have consensus here? Thanks. Random89 20:57, 14 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Also, there is a fairly significant update about his death, which happened while in the midst of conducting his everyday work. Random89 20:59, 14 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I think this is ridiculous, there is no way this man's death is of international significance or great importance. --78.151.119.228 (talk) 21:15, 14 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Comment - I wish to publicly apologize for my swift deletion of this news item. However, at the risk of courting controversy, I wish to also point out that I believe nowhere on Wikipedia does 60% of net Support votes (six support, four oppose) equal consensus. That coupled with my own judgment, which may at the time have been swift, but which I took to the level of believing that no consensus existed to promote this item. Maybe this is one of those many times when my swift first judgment was the incorrect one to make. Thank you for letting me vent, and I apologize for any inconvenience caused. Bobo. 02:20, 15 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
If only that same attitude was taken with admins who place items on the template without so much as floating the idea on this page. But then again I guess that would burst the bubble that they are not super users... -- Grant.Alpaugh 02:34, 15 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Also, please keep in mind (I know you're an admin, but still) that voting means nothing as far as consensus goes. Arguments are what matters. If 100 people vote against something without providing any justification, all it takes is one justified support for the item to have a "consensus" to support, at least strictly speaking. -- Grant.Alpaugh 02:39, 15 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
(ec)One of the ideas introduced in the recent reform to keep ITN from stagnating, like it has historically, was to introduce a bias for inclusion. To be specific, only lack of consensus keeps items from being posted, and 'no consensus'-items may be posted. These are still early days and all the tradeoffs remain to be seen, but certainly one of them will be that more items that are considered marginal will get posted. The recommended response is not removal, but suggesting/posting items to rotate the offending item off faster. - BanyanTree 03:06, 15 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
In response to Grant's last post, this is precisely one of these occasions where admins have great trouble determining what is a "good" non-biased argument, and tend to look for a process-oriented solution. Vote counting is certainly the most obvious process, but it's only valid as long as there is a decent body of arguments to weigh. I certainly would post something like this based on a nom only if I really enjoyed multiple users yelling at me. - BanyanTree 03:06, 15 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Right, but that was never the case. There was always a decent number of people supporting the inclusion. -- Grant.Alpaugh 03:18, 15 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Support Perhaps the most important US broadcast journalist, and still very active - certainly among the most respected. As long as this is English Wikipedia and national politics in the US is of global interest, the death of such an important US political journalist is noteworthy. Slrubenstein | Talk 12:15, 15 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Strongly oppose including this, just as I would have opposed including Richard Carleton. If this was O'Reilly, maybe, because he has an internation reputation. I don't think that Russert has a worldwide significance to merit ITN inclusion. Daniel (talk) 13:53, 15 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Richard Carleton's death can hardly be described as unexpected, definitely no where near to the degree of Russert. With a publicly known pre-existing heart condition and prostaste cancer, plus being 4 years older (given that Russert was starting to get close to the age where it's not really that unexpected). And the current ITN death criteria makes no mentioned of 'worldwide signifance'. (For that matter, ITN has NEVER mentioned anything about worldwide significance.) The specific criteria we are discussing is the old 5b here since we never really reached consensus on a reformed criteria, and in any case AFAIK all reformed criteria proposed were intended to be more 'liberal' then the existing ones, and all it says is "the deceased was a key figure in their field of expertise, and died unexpectedly or tragically". While Russert may be a bit borderline on the unexpected part, I think considering the various factors, it falls on the side of unexpected (heck they even did an autopsy.) Nil Einne (talk) 15:17, 15 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Strongly oppose It's a joke that Russert's (who was he?) untimely death was included, but certainly not surprising. This is proof of the merkincenric nature of this website. Perhaps Wikipedia should be renaled Merkinpedia.

June 12

June 12, 2008 (2008-06-12) (Thursday)

ITN Candidates for June 12

Nom Cross-Strait relations item. - BanyanTree 08:39, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Please only use the bullets for blurb wordings so that they stick out from the discussion. -- Grant.Alpaugh 15:32, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
The article needs some updating. Otherwise, a fair candidate. --Tone 09:00, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I actually think the section "Inter-government" is the most informative update I've seen recently. However, it does perhaps need more refs, now that I take another look... - BanyanTree 11:54, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Even if the article's good, it has a weak support from me...because I'd like to hear about the results of those formal talks. SpencerT♦C 14:21, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Posted.--Pharos (talk) 23:13, 14 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Is there an article about the Irish voting? SpencerT♦C 14:21, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Nom Irish referendum item. Anxietycello (talk) 14:43, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Please only use the bullets for blurb wordings so that they stick out from the discussion. -- Grant.Alpaugh 15:32, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Support when the result is known. However, if positive, it may be more reasonable to wait until all the countries ratify the Lisbon treaty. If negative, put it on straight forward. --Tone 15:04, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
While ITN tries to avoid "mid-process" items, this seems to be significant enough to merit some attention. I would be more supportive if it was worded to point out that this is the only country that has to ratify by popular referendum, rather than legislative vote. - BanyanTree 22:32, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Nom Boumediene v. Bush item. This is a landmark decision, the New York Times called it "historic". ––Bender235 (talk) 18:25, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Note: Decision mentioned in a single sentence. SpencerT♦C 22:12, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, hopefully one of the editors specializing in Supreme Court cases will get to this in time for ITN. Though we'll take updates from anyone.  ;) - BanyanTree 22:32, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Actually, it appears that the lead has a nice big update, which has one reference. Also, I would prefer not to bold-link an article with a big yellow tag on the top, as well as an orange one in the body, though that's more peripheral to a decision. I have posted on the talk there asking folks to add more refs. - BanyanTree 02:10, 13 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Ugh, re-evaluated and it's become less structured as time has gone by. - BanyanTree 00:28, 16 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Second that. It's the classic story: Guy meets American soldiers, soldiers kidnap guy, guys sues the President and wins. President too ignorant to find out. Guy and President live happily ever after. Potatoswatter (talk) 22:41, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Please do not use ITN/C for personal/political commentary and focus your comments on the the degree to which the article has been updated, as well as the perceived significance of the item. - BanyanTree 00:00, 13 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The floods in the Midwest, especially in Iowa, are a pretty big story at the moment. --- RockMFR 14:42, 13 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Support the article seems good. SpencerT♦C 15:17, 14 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

June 11

June 11, 2008 (2008-06-11) (Wednesday)

ITN Candidates for June 11

I'd support the LTTE item, but LTTE is protected as of now because of a dispute, and it really shouldn't be at Sri Lanka Navy. (And it's not). SpencerT♦C 10:53, 11 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah, I would be OK with most items on the Current events portal if they had decent updates. - BanyanTree 12:48, 11 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Decent update and historic import. It will also push the Ainu item off, so there won't be three Japan items on at the same time. - BanyanTree 13:09, 11 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

No comments? Posted. - BanyanTree 22:30, 11 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The Gora Prai airstrike story is a headline in all news sites --TheFEARgod (Ч) 19:00, 11 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Its article looks pretty bad, and needs some serious cleanup before I would consider it. SpencerT♦C 19:19, 11 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Um, what "all news sites" are you referring to? No apparent mention on CNN, BBC or CBC, and that was just a quick check. The Tom (talk) 19:23, 11 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Currently #2 on BBC and the "photo item" on The Washington Post. Still, I agree with Spencer's assessment. BanyanTree 22:20, 11 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Item has been greatly expanded since I last checked. Does anyone have a suggested wording? The wording of the portal item appears messy. - BanyanTree 01:30, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Can you clarify? --→ Ãlways Ãhëad (talk) 04:01, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I wanted to see if anyone had a suggested wording for the item to be put on ITN. There's doesn't seem to be, so I have come up with some wording and posted. Thanks, BanyanTree 04:27, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Note that the tornado strike on a Boy Scout strike in the US appears to be attracting attention. An update has begun at June 2008 tornado outbreak sequence and may be ITN quality in the near future. - BanyanTree 03:10, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Note that, despite nominating, I think that this is less impactful that the Pakistani airstrike and would suggest placing it under that item, assuming that people are supportive of posting. - BanyanTree 04:39, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Modify - updated article is now Little Sioux Scout Ranch - BanyanTree 09:37, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not big on the wording...it sounds like multiple tornados hit the same boy scout camp...I was under the impression that it was over a big area and the boy scouts got hit by one of the tornados. SpencerT♦C 14:23, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
You're right. I reworded and posted. - BanyanTree 22:18, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

June 10

June 10, 2008 (2008-06-10) (Tuesday)

ITN Candidates for June 10

Support as nominator. Anonymous101 (talk) 20:09, 10 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose as article creator; the flight number isn't even confirmed yet (that's a bit of minor original research on my part, but right now it's the only one that fits) and the article consists of a paragraph and a quote. It's not nearly ready for front page yet, I don't think. --Golbez (talk) 20:34, 10 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Weak support, definately is notable enough to be on the news section, but it doesn't have an article that covers it well enough. bsrboy (talk) 21:05, 10 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose, as article is short, gives little information on the crash, and doesn't have fully formatted citations. BobAmnertiopsisChitChat Me! 21:39, 10 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
It appears to me that the issues raised have been addressed in the past several hours. Can I ask commenters to revisit the item? Thanks, BanyanTree 06:28, 11 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
OK, the timer's gone yellow, this is the only viable candidate, nobody has commented and the issues raised appear to be addressed. Posted. - BanyanTree 13:04, 11 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Support as nominator (at least if/when the article is updated). -- Grant.Alpaugh 05:12, 10 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Support when (if) they actually resign. --Tone 08:16, 10 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Note: Article not updated. SpencerT♦C 10:52, 10 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Support When resignation happens. Hobartimus (talk) 15:45, 10 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Ditto When resignation occurs. BobAmnertiopsisChitChat Me! 15:53, 10 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Again, no update. It might be a good idea not to formally nominate items that don't have any associated update. - BanyanTree 21:50, 10 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Disagree, it is a bad idea to post items that have not been nominated, while nominating items might get people involved in updating the related articles. -- Grant.Alpaugh 15:15, 11 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not convinced that ITN nominations channel editors to potential items, but I'm willing to be convinced. - BanyanTree 03:14, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Chinese dam breach is an ITN-worthy story as well, I think. Updated and sourced article, great impact as one of the earthquake consequences. --Tone 08:16, 10 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Please only use the * for blurb wordings so that we can keep them seperate from the discussion. -- Grant.Alpaugh 18:00, 10 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I've been looking for Sichuan earthquake blurb, but the info on the most recent developments at Tangjiashan Lake (I assume you mean that to be the emboldened link) is a bit fuzzy - e.g. only one sentence on the new sluice channel and very little detail on the engineering effort. Also, Beichuan is not a town, though Reuters apparently can't figure that out. - BanyanTree 11:28, 10 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
The town (whatever that is) is evacuated not abandoned. There were still people living there at the time of the quake. Abandoned implies it is the remains of one of those towns relocated when they built the dam. --Lemmey talk 12:17, 10 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
"when they built the dam" betrays the fact that you have not read the article or the Reuters link. Kevin McE (talk) 17:56, 10 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I have read both, Thankyou Mr Quoteman. Obviously, I was talking about the 3 gorges dam. If a betrayl exists here, it does not lie in my words. --Lemmey talk 18:21, 10 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Of course. Very remiss of me not to guess that you were referring to a different construction, more than 400 miles away, on a different river, that was not referred to in either the article or the link. As you say, obvious if I had thought about it. Kevin McE (talk) 19:16, 10 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Its the same river system and its upstream, exactly in the area where over a million people were moved from to make way for the lake. Leave it to Kevin to twist a wording suggestion into a personal attack. --Lemmey talk 19:24, 10 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
You two play nice or I'll send you to bed without any supper. - BanyanTree 21:50, 10 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I side with Lemmey as he's at least entertaining. -- Grant.Alpaugh 23:56, 10 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

June 9

June 9, 2008 (2008-06-09) (Monday)

ITN Candidates for June 9

nominate & support: seems to be clearly news worthy. --Imagemonth (talk) 19:52, 9 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Is there an updated article that could be bold-linked? This seems important, but I would like to see an article with citations to show this. Random89 20:14, 9 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
It appears to be FLOPS, which has one updated sentence. This would need more updated content before I would post it. - BanyanTree 22:05, 9 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Actually, I just realized it's IBM Roadrunner. That's in better shape but it could still do with a few more citations. What do folks think? - BanyanTree 03:29, 10 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I like it, especially since it has its own Wikipedia article. Not exactly "big news" but certainly "in the news" and the article is already more informative than any of the news coverage I had seen of this. Dragons flight (talk) 03:39, 10 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
strong support a cursory look at google news will illustrate that it is newsworthy and international in scope. Definitely deserves front page mention, in the above edited version (which links the IBM roadrunner article). --Steve Johnsenson (talk) 04:41, 10 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Posted. The article has gained quite a few more citations than it had before. - BanyanTree 11:17, 10 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Nominate Ukraine mine one; some good news, a little bad, and in Eastern Europe, for some balance. BobAmnertiopsisChitChat Me! 20:11, 9 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
The article one the collapse is currently only 2 paragraphs long (but quite well sourced). A bit of expansion would be nice, but I suppose this could go up as is if needed. Random89 20:15, 9 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I'll try and work on it. BobAmnertiopsisChitChat Me! 20:40, 9 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Support. -- Grant.Alpaugh 23:45, 9 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
The article looks decent...though as usual, picture are good (but the chances are slim). Weak, Weak Support...only one miner was killed and 13 went missing: Generally this isn't a big mine accident. I only support because it has its own article. SpencerT♦C 23:56, 9 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Support as mine safety is more encyclopedic than a stabbing spree. --Lemmey talk 00:30, 10 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Posted. Thanks, BanyanTree 00:44, 10 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
No, thank you. BobAmnertiopsisChitChat Me! 00:56, 10 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

June 8

June 8, 2008 (2008-06-08) (Sunday)

ITN Candidates for June 8

Support given the rarity on such incidents in Japan and increased toll. - Mailer Diablo 11:10, 9 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Fair enough. Posted. - BanyanTree 13:39, 9 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Note: Caribbean Monk Seal item moved to June 6.

The peace talks stopped already in April, didn't they? Narayanese (talk) 18:35, 8 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Not officially. Kony just refused to sign the peace agreement, but everyone has been continuing under the illusion that they are actually continuing. - BanyanTree 23:14, 8 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Posted.--Pharos (talk) 00:27, 9 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Further comments: Decent article, sourced, picture (++). SpencerT♦C 23:58, 9 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
An alteration to the existing article, to incorporate the men's event. Kevin McE (talk) 15:19, 8 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Done by Aecis. - BanyanTree 23:24, 8 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Why, oh why, oh why...would you want to replace the Ivanovic picture? Madness. 131.111.129.126 (talk) 00:02, 9 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
The attractiveness of the Main Page did drop by about an order of magnitude, didn't it? Heh. Oh, the burden of being a "serious" template. - BanyanTree 01:54, 9 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

June 7

June 7, 2008 (2008-06-07) (Saturday)

ITN Candidates for June 7

Not ITN in my opinion... though interesting. --Tone 09:42, 7 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
The article is unlikely to get updated since it doesn't discuss pricing in different countries. Let's take football or something else that comes up instead. Narayanese (talk) 10:43, 7 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
The article Sex reassignment surgery, which appears to the be the relevant article though it wasn't emboldened in the suggestion, doesn't appear to have been updated. Please update the relevant article for ITN consideration. - BanyanTree 12:54, 7 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • EURO 2008 is starting today, probably the biggest European sport event this year. Asking in advance, shall we put the beginnning on ITN as well as the finals? (This is the problem with the new page format, we can't discuss events that will happen in future under the correct date...) --Tone 09:42, 7 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
According to Wikipedia:Sports on ITN it appears only the result should be mentioned. If you disagree, I advise you to bring it up at Wikipedia talk:Sports on ITN. Also, the format is still under discussion at Template talk:In the news and, in the meantime, you are welcome to create the new page for the relevant day in the meantime and post it ahead of time. - BanyanTree 12:54, 7 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Generally, I don't remember us putting the beginning of sporting events... SpencerT♦C 13:01, 7 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Only the Olympics and the FIFA World Cup. However, this is the number three event behind those two, so I wouldn't complain either way. -CWY2190(talk • contributions) 15:44, 7 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I don't think a continental tourney, no matter how huge, should get more than one entry unless something bizarre happens (riots, disqualifications, etc.) Random89 18:52, 7 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

French Open

Wait until the men's final tomorrow. -CWY2190(talk • contributions) 19:46, 7 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Why wait? Does Wikipedia have anything against women? This should get on ITN as soon as we have some referenced prose added to 2008 French Open - Women's Singles.
Ana Ivanović
Ana Ivanović
New prose can be found at 2008 French Open#Day 14. Need references, though. --199.71.174.100 (talk) 22:40, 7 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I think it would make sense to post the women's and men's together as one item.--Pharos (talk) 01:41, 8 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
The refs are now in.[5]
I think it would make sense to post the women first and then add the men as one item when they are done playing and the relevant articles updated. --199.71.174.100 (talk) 02:50, 8 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Posted per WP:ITNSPORTS. Men can be added to the blurb later, perhaps more prominently to make up for the women going up first. - BanyanTree 07:16, 8 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Make up? True gentlemen should always let the ladies go first! :)
Anyway, thanks for posting. --199.71.174.100 (talk) 20:56, 8 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Uganda-Sudan conflict

Note: 2006–2008 Juba talks copied moved to June 8.

It's already up in the portal and article, unless you want the Sudan attack. Narayanese (talk) 22:54, 7 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
The external link posted by 76.205.108.253 didn't work for me, so I had no clue what Uganda news it was about. I know it's about Uganda only because it's mentioned at the end of the URL. --199.71.174.100 (talk) 22:58, 7 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
"The Ugandan Lord's Resistance Army rebels reportedly draft new soldiers and attack South Sudan's army". Narayanese (talk) 23:02, 7 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I think a headline focusing on the outbreak of "war" would be good for ITN, but we don't have an article about this "war" yet. Shall we wait? --199.71.174.100 (talk) 23:23, 7 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
The Lord's Resistance Army article isn't updated enough. I support when it is expanded. --PlasmaTwa2 23:41, 7 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Let me take a stab at an update, this article having being my sole FA. The GoSS has just withdrawn from their mediation role in the Juba talks, meaning that the two year old peace talks have finally collapsed. At least three editors have been circling the article because of recent developments and I think we can get a truly rocking update in a few hours. - BanyanTree 07:21, 8 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
OK, how about: "The government of Southern Sudan stops mediating two-year-old peace talks between Uganda and the rebel Lord's Resistance Army, following a rebel attack on a Sudanese town"? - BanyanTree 09:46, 8 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
The peace talks stopped already in April, didn't they? Narayanese (talk) 18:35, 8 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Not officially. Kony just refused to sign the peace agreement, but everyone has been continuing under the illusion that they are actually continuing. - BanyanTree 23:14, 8 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Oh, ok, then your blurb works. Narayanese (talk) 00:23, 9 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

June 6

June 6, 2008 (2008-06-06) (Friday)

ITN Candidates for June 6

  • Nominate the Ainu item. I recall we put something up for Australia recognizing something, and the article is about the same quality as the Turkey one. --PlasmaTwa2 23:53, 6 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Posted. Thanks, BanyanTree 02:03, 7 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I support, but I'm a bit leery on the amount of information in the article about this...2 sentences and one ref. SpencerT♦C 13:03, 7 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I don't think it would take much effort to expand this article a bit more about the extinction before it's posted. Thanks.--Pharos (talk) 01:49, 8 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

June 5

June 5, 2008 (2008-06-05) (Thursday)

ITN Candidates for June 5

Sure, I've added a link, as well as changing the emboldened link to Zimbabwean presidential election, 2008, which has been greatly updated since several days ago. - BanyanTree 01:19, 9 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Naw. That's not news. We Canadians haven't been able to wear hats in buildings for years. --PlasmaTwa2 00:11, 6 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Do you have a real comment that I won't ignore when deciding whether or not to post this? - BanyanTree 00:14, 6 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Do you have a real news suggestion that people will care about? Explain how a clothing ban is news, and please tell me how a three sentence mention is enough for it to make it on the news. This is just a long line of discrimination against people from the Middle East. Nothing new. --PlasmaTwa2 00:45, 6 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Do you actually read the linked articles for comprehension? Do you know that Turkey is in the Middle East? I could provide a list of websites with this item on their front page, but I'm done humoring you. - BanyanTree 01:15, 6 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I would say Turkey is in Europe. It might join the EU, after all. --PlasmaTwa2 06:48, 6 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
And posted. 24 hours since last ITN update and there hasn't been an objection worthy of the name. - BanyanTree 02:25, 6 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
That's ridiculous. What's the point of nominating something if you're just going to put it up yourself anyway? It has gone up, despite the fact that no case has been made for or against this item (I'm sorry, but on the website you provided, BBC News, this is hardly front page) except for the fact that some arbitrary deadline has passed and ITN "needs" updating apparently. I'm actually fairly neutral on this one, as I was under the impression that this ban had been in place for years (evidently this changed). But our opinions here clearly don't matter as long as admins do whatever the hell they like. Hammer Raccoon (talk) 04:16, 6 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
As I've been saying for at least a week and half now (though it seems like an eternity at this point), starting at Wikipedia talk:In the news 2.0 and most recently in the discussion page below this at ITN/C, one of the key changes that needs to be made if people want more than three items a week is that, as no consensus is "keep" in a deletion discussion, no consensus at ITN must mean "post". As it is, it's relatively easy to block an item for basically no reason at all by throwing a few "opposes" at it and then wait for it to grow too stale to get on the template. The "no consensus=post" assumption, coupled with the timer to say "enough talk - identify the best option and post", entirely breaks that model.
I nommed an item, which means that I support it. After four hours of waiting, the only comment was that Canadians can't wear hats in buildings, followed by how Middle Eastern people discriminating against Middle Easterners is nothing new. If there had been a consensus against it for other than spurious reasons, I would not have posted it. As is it, I did. I appear to be the only admin on ITN/C right now, so could hardly wait for some other admin to get lost, notice the nom and post for me. I would be delighted to post other people's suggestions, but there appears to be a distinct lack, coupled with a lot of people who appear eager to go back to the 'one update every two days'-paradigm and feel that it is their duty, in the immortal words of Plasma Twa 2, to prevent "the admins from putting up local crap that no one gives a shit about". Except for sporting events, which are apparently OK. - BanyanTree 04:52, 6 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I don't think the nominating admin (on AFDs) can close it too, right? Same thing here. Wait for another admin to judge for him/herself. Its just 4 hours, and ITN is not a news source; ITN can wait for another few hours. --Howard the Duck 05:11, 6 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
That's a fair point. However, ITN/C is largely deserted except for non-admins commenting on the occasional suggestion. In my mind, it was not a question of posting it myself or waiting for another admin to do so in a timely manner, e.g. within 12 hours, but posting it myself now or posting it myself in 24 hours after it became more stale. The "let's wait a few more hours" attitude is precisely the reason that ITN stagnates. The timer goes yellow after 24 hours: the question is not "can't we wait more than the 24 hours?" but "what sort of lame Main Page template goes un-updated for more than 24 hours?". Note that I would have been happy to hold off if there had been a more thoroughly vetted candidate, but there was not. - BanyanTree 05:53, 6 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I didn't know that ITN now has a timer. However, these hours are the hours where people from the Western Hemisphere sleep and when the Europeans start waking up so it can be pretty slow within these intervals.
Eight hours ago, when I posted the suggestion? That would have been 10 pm in Western Europe, 8 pm on the East Coast and 4 pm on the West Coast. Hardly the dead of night, and broad daylight for Anglophones in New Zealand and Australia. - BanyanTree 06:15, 6 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
No, right now. Maybe on the West Coast it is still early. Nevertheless, you should've waited for another admin to evaluate it. Sooner or later someone will crop up. --Howard the Duck 06:26, 6 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Still, I won't recommend adding your own suggestion. I see it as unethical; it seems that there are no overly violent reactions (yet, like rallies or civil disturbance) so the time wasted on waiting for an admin response is not that bad. --Howard the Duck 06:02, 6 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Perhaps. It would be far easier if someone besides me suggested items (the amount of effort that various users have expended attacking the posting of this item could easily have resulted in two more items going up), so they could be more thoroughly vetted. As for my unethical behavior, you are welcome to find someone to start my recall, bring it up at WP:AN/I or seek other form of redress. - BanyanTree 06:15, 6 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I really don't care about how users become admins and how admins are booted out of adminship. And since you've brought up WP:AN/I it would've been a good idea to post a shout out there about this rather than posting your own suggestion yourself. --Howard the Duck 06:26, 6 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I note your opinion. - BanyanTree 07:04, 6 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Of all the things that could be considered "unethical" for a Wikipedia admin, well, this is my opinion: writing, nominating and posting an updated item to ITN by oneself when noone else is around seems much more like something praiseworthy.--Pharos (talk) 16:19, 6 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
As a non-admin, this is very frightening. Screw consensus. Delete AFD -- just let the admins add WP:PROD and if no one objects in a few hours, delete it. Make an article featured by adding it at WP:FAC, wait for a few hours, then if no one responds, promote it to FA. Screw the very foundations Wikipedia was built. In fact, semi-protect ITN/C and let the admins add their pet blurbs, and if no admin even says a thing, add it.
And to think there are really no "big" events coming out from this blurb, like mass hysteria, bombings, even protests etc. If it was that important something would've happened already but it hasn't. --Howard the Duck 18:52, 6 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
This is nothing like AFD. AFD is decided after at least 5 days (often longer), and the result is a permanent change to the encyclopedia. ITN candidates are usually decided within one day (with very little active admin participation), and the result is an entirely ephemeral change to a portal. I'm not sure why you're so interested in mass hysteria and bombings. There are lots of important things in the world beside mass hysteria and bombings.--Pharos (talk) 19:32, 6 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Ephemeral change in a highly-visible template. And staleness on ITN shouldn't be the reason on ditching consensus and the ideals Wikipedia was founded -- ITN is not a news service, ITN can live with stale news for a week (although it wouldn't go that bad). As for importance, if something "important" happened in a similarly-sized country, say Ethiopia, it won't be posted on ITN, unless it's about mass hysteria and bombings (actually for a country plagued with mass hysteria and bombings everyday, even those won't be enough to place it on ITN, but that's another story). I'm not saying this shouldn't be on ITN; at most this is a borderline case. If it's a borderline case, you wait for others to comment. No matter what. --Howard the Duck 03:17, 7 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

(un-indent) Actually, this would be a good time to test this out. Would the first admin who is reading this and would have either posted this item or offered a rejection reason, please post here so we know what sort of time frame we're looking at? Thanks, BanyanTree 06:15, 6 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Irregardless of anything else, anyone else notice that this is a one country story? This is a story about Turkey and it's citizens. If we tried to put something up about this happening in America, it would never go up. Or, maybe it would. Under this new rule, it would. --PlasmaTwa2 06:48, 6 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Sure. If the US had a secularist constitution while being a Muslim country and had a new popularly elected Islamic government that passed a law pushing against the secularists, which caused worry for the U.S. because they were trying to get into the European Union over the resolute resistance of France, and then the secularist courts banned the new law by the Islamic party, in what was seen as foreshadowing for the outlawing of the Islamic party, I'd definitely put that on ITN. - BanyanTree 07:00, 6 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Well, honestly, you lost me after you said the U.S. was worried about the U.S. But, it sounds to me that this law is "foreshadowing" the ban of the Islamic Party, in which case, I still don't think that is very notable. Not on an international level, at least. I can't believe I am using this, but as of right now this story is not on the main page of CNN.com. Like Howard mentioned above, there apparently has been no riots or violent reactions to this, either. --PlasmaTwa2 07:18, 6 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Also, if it is only in universities, that seems pretty minor. --PlasmaTwa2 07:20, 6 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Well, it has been ten hours or so since this was posted, which was obviously after it hit the news wires. I also think that counting front page locations is lame, but in that time I have seen it go from being the number two item on BBC News to the sidebar to the single lead item in the Middle East regional section and drop down to the "religion" section on the Washington Post front page. To be fair, the number of ITN items that would stay at the top of the news cycle for more than 12 hours is rather small.
As for minor, it's all contextual. Having a census in the US would not make it to ITN; I would have no qualms about putting an adequately updated Lebanese census item up. (If you don't understand this, see Demographics of Lebanon.) If you don't like it, throw a five sentence update into an article currently on the current events portal, nominate it, I'll post it, and this item will be pushed off the top. It'll take five minutes, which is less time than you've taken in this discussion thus far, and we'll both feel a lot more productive than we do now. - BanyanTree 07:46, 6 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
As an admin, I certainly would have put this up. I noticed the suggestion before it was posted, and it seemed like a decent one, so I didn't see a particular reason to comment at the time. Certainly this is a significant development in Turkish constitutional law, and the item meets all criteria.--Pharos (talk) 15:58, 6 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
It's nice that this went up, the issue is important in Turkish politics as a symbol for the tug between islamic and secular powers. Narayanese (talk) 08:10, 6 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Nom Nuclear program of Iran#Israeli views I would actually have preferred this to the Hijab ban, but I didn't update the article until just now, so I can't really complain. Also, I see nothing wrong with what Banyan did, it was a fine entry to have on ITN, and when we need more admins not fewer, telling them not to post their own suggestions seems somewhat counterproductive. Random89 20:16, 6 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
The article is certainly well updated but the wording of the portal blurb, "Prime Minister of Israel Ehud Olmert says that 'the end of Iran's nuclear program is near'", is not supported by the updated content. Please suggest an alternate wording supported by the article or add to the article so that the suggested blurb is supported. Thanks, BanyanTree 01:54, 7 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
How about:

Israeli government officials issue threatening remarks about Iran's nuclear program. Random89 18:58, 7 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

OK, posted.--Pharos (talk) 01:14, 8 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

June 4

June 4, 2008 (2008-06-04) (Wednesday)

ITN Candidates for June 4

Time's up. I expanded the update and posted, since the Olympics item appears controversial and there are no other candidates. And I didn't choose this just because it's almost certainly the only time three images in a row of black men have been put on a Main Page template. ;) OMG, TEH BIAS! - BanyanTree 01:49, 5 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I'm going to have to Oppose this, even though our timer is running out. It doesn't matter if a timer is running out...it's a reminder, not a guideline. He is simply "briefly" detained, and we have never mentioned other famous people being in police custody, i.e. Mel Gibson for drunk driving. I feel this can be a dangerous precedent for a "brief" detention. I know I have nothing to suggest, but I prefer quality over quantity. At any point, We'll probably be seeing some new stories sooner or later as daytime passes through Asia. SpencerT♦C 01:51, 5 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
He is a presidential candidate for one of the most powerful nations in the region, who may have won the first round anyway, who was detained for addressing a crowd of his supporters, and was released following formal protests from multiple nations. I think equating this to Gibson drunk driving is a little off, though I'm probably more familiar with the background than most users. I would wheel like a fiend to keep ITN from being filled with the inanities of celebrity 'news'. - BanyanTree 06:03, 5 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Also Oppose. Lets not become the BBC and slavishly report every little thing that Tsangvirai would like us to. This isn't important enough to be ITN. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.118.45.5 (talk) 03:36, 5 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
"Lets not become the BBC and slavishly report..." - ok, this made me grin. I suppose The Washington Post, who had this story on their front page when I posted, is also Tsvangirai's slave. What a powerful man he must be - and yet unable to get his votes counted. - BanyanTree 06:03, 5 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
"Please refrain from straight support or oppose votes; instead the discussion can focus on the relative merits of the available candidate items". This is part of the trial period guidelines. The idea is, than you can suggest better items rather than opposing. Thank you.--Pharos (talk) 05:45, 5 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Now that we've put up the Stanley Cup (Dang I was hoping Pittsburg would win), can we take this down now? I knew we'd have somesthing soon, and its just a hair past the little timer. SpencerT♦C 11:02, 5 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
As a general rule, if something is worth putting up for a short time then it's worth keeping on till it rotates off. However,, I'm still waiting to see if Harami2000 comes through with his inflation item (from June 3rd) which would replace this, as two Zimbabwe items at one time may be a bit much. - BanyanTree 13:03, 5 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
It doesn't matter...it was put up without consensus, and should stay down unless voted to go back up. SpencerT♦C 19:35, 5 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Per my discussion with Random89 at Wikipedia talk:In the news 2.0, I am explicitly operating on a "consensus required to exclude; no consensus=include" basis. As such, right now even the Olympics item below is still considered marginal for inclusion, rather than being outright rejected. - BanyanTree 22:10, 5 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

(unindent) "...explicitly operating?" I apologise for being blunt, but I feel this is why we have WP:IAR. Here's a compromise: How about at the next update, we remove this and add the new, instead of the bottom item. SpencerT♦C 00:10, 6 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I like blunt, though I don't quite know what you mean by "this is why we have WP:IAR". It almost sounds like you think I shouldn't explain myself. Or maybe you mean I should ignore my own judgment in order to obey the norms of the system that had caused the template to stagnate before, in which case the IAR thing to do would be to push for inclusion. - BanyanTree 00:45, 6 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry for not clarifying...when you say "I am explicitly operating on a 'consensus required to exclude; no consensus=include' basis," I was suggesting that we ignore this basis. But how does the compromise sound? The item wasn't really approved...and the two "suggesters" besides the nominator both opposed... SpencerT♦C 01:12, 6 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
24.118.45.5 is an obvious political partisan, and I disregarded his vote as soon as I read it. In my mind, it's 1 vs 1. I'm operating on a no consensus=inclusion basis as I stated in earlier discussions on ITN reform, and posted an item that I have judged to have no consensus. I see no downside to keeping the Zimbabwe item on for its natural lifespan, though I'm hoping that another item, perhaps the detention of US and UK diplomats, the expulsion of aid organizations or the insane inflation (the country is a real mess), replaces it. This is completely consistent from my point of view as apparently one of two admins interacting at ITN/C, but may seem unfair to you. You might want to ask an uninvolved admin to review if you feel strongly about it. - BanyanTree 01:55, 6 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I don't feel that strongly. Do we have an article about the expulsation of the NGO aid organizations? SpencerT♦C 19:31, 6 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Not the last time I went through what I thought were the most likely suspects for articles. It's possible that someone has updated an article and it just hasn't gotten to the portal, which seems to happen fairly frequently. - BanyanTree 02:10, 7 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Also, I happened to read the current events page for June 5. I feel that this also sets a dangerous precedent, because one could similarly argue for Zarganar being added. SpencerT♦C 00:14, 6 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
If the article Zarganar was updated adequately and suggested at ITN/C, I would consider it for inclusion, though I would probably wait and hope something that would prompt less people to yell at me was suggested. That said, he is apparently a notable critic of the government (though not the level of Tsvangirai), but has not been released (as Tsvangirai has). I have also been looking for an angle to get Cyclone Nargis back on ITN, since it certainly has not gotten the level of ITN attention it deserves, and that would weigh in any decision as well. If I could embolden Cyclone Nargis rather than Zarganar, I would be more favorable to it.
I feel that I've given a fairly detailed description of my possible reasoning process. What is your reasoning process for a prospective Zarganar item? - BanyanTree 00:45, 6 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Okay, I see where you're coming from. I'm really hoping for a major news story, because when this happens (as it appears now), I notice notability debates become more frequent. I actually agree with your reasoning process for the item. But when you say "...apparently a notable critic..." we need to have a ref for this in the article. Cheers, SpencerT♦C 01:12, 6 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Yeah, this is all a thought experiment as we don't have an updated article. - BanyanTree 01:55, 6 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Support (More sources: (IOC) (Games bid)) Felipe C.S ( talk ) 21:00, 4 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
We did not put this up for anyo other Olympics, did we? --PlasmaTwa2 22:33, 4 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose; nothing of lasting importance here. Should only go up when winner is announced. Hammer Raccoon (talk) 22:36, 4 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose I agree with Hammer Raccoon...the field is still there, and once a city is chosen, I'll support that. SpencerT♦C 00:09, 5 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Fuck. Detroit won. Let's put it up (Fuck). --PlasmaTwa2 02:46, 5 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Support. We could use the image of the Cup too. Better luck next year Pittsburgh :(-Wafulz (talk) 02:49, 5 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Boo. My avian friends lose. I dunno how the current setup works but I'll support this. --Howard the Duck 03:00, 5 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Well, sports is the same. This is one of the biggest championships of the year, and it is on Wikipedia:Sports on ITN. There is no reason why it won't go up. --PlasmaTwa2 03:05, 5 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
If the Super 14 could go up, then so could the Stanley Cup. Therefore Support.--ChicosBailBonds (talk) 03:09, 5 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

June 3

June 3, 2008 (2008-06-03) (Tuesday)

ITN Candidates for June 3

He will most likely secure the delegates needed late tonight, or tomorrow. Also, it needs to be decided if we mention that he is the first black man to get the nomination of a major political party in the US. -CWY2190(talk • contributions) 19:24, 3 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I think yes to the second question as it's arguably more noteable then the actual selection of a candidate so unless some strange happens like the media not widely mentioning it, which I doubt will happen then it should definitely be there. Nil Einne (talk) 19:36, 3 June 2008 (UTC) Edit: Indeed I think thus [7] just goes to show that they almost definitely will Nil Einne (talk) 19:42, 3 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
It's mentioned in the second sentence of this AP article. I think it would be good form for us to follow suit, since it is an historically signficant event. Cumulus Clouds (talk) 19:45, 3 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Formatting it like you did with two different links bolded in the headline, right next to each other, is confusing. I recommend emphasizing only Democratic nomination —dgiestc 21:45, 3 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Yeah, I think it should be included in the blurb as well. I have tweaked the blurb above to match. -- Grant.Alpaugh 22:49, 3 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
The table at Democratic Party (United States) presidential primaries, 2008 currently has him 10 delegates away, and there's currently an editing tiff on Barack Obama over wording. The suggested blurb doesn't seem supported by the articles. - BanyanTree 23:12, 3 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
The final two primaries are tonight. He will have those 10 delegates in the next 3 hours. -CWY2190(talk • contributions) 23:17, 3 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
CNN, the AP, and the BBC are all calling him the presumptive nominee now that the polls have closed in SD. Andrew Levine (talk) 01:35, 4 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
The relevant articles appear to have been updated since I last checked as well. - BanyanTree 01:40, 4 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Change the blurb. It is news when he becomes the nominee, which he no doubt is now. --PlasmaTwa2 02:13, 4 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I don't understand. Obama is only a norminee of presidency election, but not yet the president-to-be. From the past experience I don't think this news is suitable. – PeterCX&Talk 04:49, 4 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Well, you should have objected in March when we put McCain up. There is no way you can put him up and not Obama, the first black to get the nomination of one of the two major parties. -CWY2190(talk • contributions) 04:56, 4 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
As I understand it, and my understanding is reinforced by the current phrasing of the article, he is now extremely likely to gain a majority of nominations. That is not the same as securing the nomination, which was the thresh-hold for posting the McCain item. No-one expects him not to be the nominee, but until that is formally confirmed, this is WP:CRYSTAL. It might be that the phrase "a predicted majority" has a technical meaning in US politics, in which case it should be linked. If not, I really do not see how this can be posted until either votes are counted and officially announced, or Clinton withdraws from the campaign. To do otherwise is akin to saying that Dimitri Medvedev has a predicted majority of the Russian Presidenmtial election in 2012, which he almost certainly does. Kevin McE (talk) 14:16, 4 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
How come you make it sound like the only reason Obama is notable is because he's African-American? --PlasmaTwa2 06:25, 4 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I think CWY's point is that it makes little since to put up McCain but not put up Obama when Obama's nomination is of far greater notability and international interest then McCain, which IMHO is true. Whether people like it or not, the fact that Barack Obama is African-American/black has attracted a lot of interest and is in many ways of greater interest then the selection of a Democractic/Republican candidate in itself Nil Einne (talk) 15:12, 4 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Hyperinflation in Zimbabwe pushes Zimbabwean dollar (pictured) exchange rate above one Billion to the US dollar.
    - Globally significant "in the public eye" both economically and politically.
    - Highest profile example of extreme hyperinflation for many years, followed closely by the media world-wide media recently.
    - "Landmark" figure of one billion chosen in order to ensure ITN proposal not merely repeated at regular intervals, plus has resonance in terms of *"billionaires". Also, this particular hyperinflation has very much accelerated in the past few days (see Zimbabwe dollar page) and is newsworthy additionally in that specific context.
    - Thanks for your time/consideration, David.Harami2000 (talk) 19:56, 3 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Would be good if there were an article dealing specifically on Hyperinflation in Zimbabwe. Otherwise it's a bit light on content. —dgiestc 21:41, 3 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Mhmm... much appreciate the feedback. I was 50-50 on that from a "quality of content"/"well-rounded article" point-of-view, although the likes of the World_record_progression_100_metres_men currently ITN swung that for me in that that's even more sketchy/list-like than the Zimbabwean dollar article, yet was still deemed OK for the front-page slot.
I'm unsure whether an in-depth Hyperinflation in Zimbabwe article is an immediately feasible option, alas, given how much would have to be ripped out of the Zimbabwean dollar page and the latter rewritten. (There's also a Paper_money_of_the_Zimbabwean_dollar page, so I'd rather been taking the Zimbabwean dollar article to be a proxy "hyperinflation in Zimbabwe" article, in recent months).
Will give that a thought and/or see what anyone else might think by way of suggestion for this, given the tight timescale.
Cheers, David. Harami2000 (talk) 22:36, 3 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
On a strictly procedural level, you need to add the blurb to Portal:Current events with a link to a supporting external article. Once that is done, you can suggest an item here simply by saying "Nom Zimbabwean dollar", or reword the item if you feel that a new wording is required for ITN.
I'm afraid I can't figure out what is the updated and cited article that supports the suggested blurb. Please embolden the link to that article. As for the comment about creating a new article, an update to Economy of Zimbabwe would appear to be logical and less strenuous, though I'll take any article that satisfies the minimum level for referenced, updated content. Note that there must normally be updated prose to qualify for ITN, not updated tables. - BanyanTree 23:08, 3 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Gotcha! I'd missed that Portal:Current events gateway to ITN, sorry. Which probably gives me or anyone else a day's leeway to pick up a top-flight news story or two for referencing and rewrite and/or summarise on the best article (using Zimbabwean dollar still looks easier as a re-edit rather than a totally new article). Thank you for the procedural walk-through, BanyanTree.
David. Harami2000 (talk) 23:41, 3 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

June 2

June 2, 2008 (2008-06-02) (Monday)

ITN Candidates for June 2

Added after a wait for comments. I was unsure if Spencer's comment below was subtle opposition to this, but I figured I wouldn't be paranoid. - BanyanTree 01:56, 4 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
In the chance this happens, I think this will be a fine test to see how quick this new itn allows us to put this up. Last year it was not put up in a timely fashion, which should be avoided this time. --PlasmaTwa2 00:31, 3 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Pittsburgh wins. See ya again in a few days. -CWY2190(talk • contributions) 04:56, 3 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Thank god. --PlasmaTwa2 05:01, 3 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
In order to encourage an atmosphere where people feel encouraged to feed items into ITN, please wait until a specific item is suggested before evaluating it for minimum ITN standards. Thanks, BanyanTree 01:56, 4 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

June 1

June 1, 2008 (2008-06-01) (Sunday)

ITN Candidates for June 1

Note: The 2008 Super 14 Final discussion has been moved to May 31.--Pharos (talk) 13:06, 1 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

This is adequately updated but this may be too local, given that there were no fatalities and nothing of great cultural import appears to have been lost. There is also a question of a merge with Universal Studios Hollywood. I would appreciate input from other users on this one. - BanyanTree 11:38, 2 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I support that. --Bender235 (talk) 12:35, 1 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
We need an updated item above or, if the update is at Portal:Current events/Sports, a suggested wording here. - BanyanTree 12:48, 1 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Strongly support including "Usain Bolt of Jamacia sets a new 100 metres world record at the Reebox Grand Prix in New York" or something along those lines. LukeSurl t c 19:11, 1 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Support. The most important track and field record. -CWY2190(talk • contributions) 19:20, 1 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I suggest changing the world record link to world record (ie links to World record progression 100 metres men) 91.109.198.46 (talk) 20:04, 1 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Suggestion was started 5 hours earlier on the date on which this event took place and was added to the portal (31st May). However, to use the word "dash" as part of the headline on the Main Page ITN section is very much US English, and the Main Page should be as version neutral as possible. I believe that simple "100 metres", given the context, is adequate in any language. Further, there is no need to give the sponsor's name: they are not paying Wikipedia, and the name of the event (which is probably not needed anyway) is meaningful and widely understood without it. Suggest rephrase to "Usain Bolt of Jamaica sets a new world record of 9.72 seconds in the 100 metres in New York." Kevin McE (talk) 20:42, 1 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Aren't we to use the English used on the place where the event happened? How about on basketball, we'd use British English? That'll be bizarre. --Howard the Duck 11:38, 2 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Please read the comment. I said that it should be "as version neutral as possible": in this instance, totally neutral language is possible, and so should be used. Is there a reason why we are still providing the Reebok corporation with free publicity on ITN? Kevin McE (talk) 12:06, 2 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Which roughly translates into "get rid of U.S. English since it's really not English English anyway. I wonder how would the NBA Finals result be written? "The Los Angeles Lakers defeats the Boston Celtic F.C. at the the arena named after an office supplies chain."
As I've said before, let's use the English used at the place where event was held. --Howard the Duck 13:12, 2 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Misrepresentation is not constructive. Please desist. Kevin McE (talk) 14:44, 2 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Shouldn't the English of the person involved take precedence over the place it occured? This is about Usain Bolt's world record, not the place the world record occured. Heck, I don't even know where that is and I suspect many other people likewise. Nil Einne (talk) 19:23, 3 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Macedonian voters go to the polls for the Macedonian parliamentary election, 2008 with reports of violence in ethnic Albanian areas.--TheFEARgod (Ч) 20:27, 1 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Posted. Note that future elections are not normally valid candidates as ITN waits until there are results, but the violence appears to be the story in the item, rather than the election itself. - BanyanTree 22:07, 1 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
We should update the same item with the results later. Hobartimus (talk) 07:17, 2 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Absolutely. Please feel free to suggest an update once new content is added to the article. Thanks, BanyanTree 23:17, 2 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Wording comment: Instead of "landslide victory", can we have ..."with ##% of the vote"? SpencerT♦C 11:15, 3 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
The article has barely more information than the actual blurb and the topic isn't "small" enough that readers can easily extrapolate background. I feel that minimum standards for amount of updated information have not been met on this item. - BanyanTree 23:17, 2 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I've added a couple sentences and posted this item. - BanyanTree 11:18, 3 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
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