Wikipedia:Featured topic candidates/Featured log/July 2021

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Fabula Nova Crystallis Final Fantasy

Fabula Nova Crystallis Final Fantasy

5 articles

Final Fantasy XIII^(subtopic)

Final Fantasy Type-0^(subtopic)

Final Fantasy XV

Development

Contributor(s): PresN (XIII), ProtoDrake (Type-0, XV (plus Development of), FNC)

This Good Topic nomination is an odd one due to the nature of Fabula Nova Crystallis. Begun as a project of thematically-connected titles, it lost the plot and its popularity and now appears to be very dead. The only games included in this nomination are the three original titles, since XIII has its own subtpoic, and the projects surrounding XV and Type-0 came about within the context of those games more than as part of the wider FNC project. There was some dispute over whether XV should be placed within this series, but there's enough developer commentary on the title and its relations to establish a thematic connection and make it relevant to the subseries. Subtopics for XV and Type-0 will probably emerge in the future, but Fabula Nova Crystallis and the originally-announced projects stands as its own entity with related projects that holds a place within the franchise's history. @PresN: did a lot of work on the Final Fantasy XIII series, and I ended up handling most of the other game articles by accident. Thank you for reviewing! --ProtoDrake (talk) 19:54, 11 May 2021 (UTC)

(Note: There is a parallel GT nomination for the games surrounding Final Fantasy Type-0. That negates the need for them to be included as part of this topic, as the intent is to have a subtopic of their own. Given their distinct nature in gameplay and tone, combined with the unique nature of the FNC series, it doesn't make sense to merge the Type-0 games into this topic. See Ivalice for similar example.)

Can't support since I did one of the articles, but I second this nomination! FNC is weird, in that it while it was announced in 2006, and all three announced games did eventually come out (2 under very different titles with different creative visions), in a practical sense it quietly vanished between FF13 (2009) and FF Type-0 (2011), even if Square Enix is allergic to formally shutting anything down. All three games had sequels and spinoffs and related media, and none of those related things were marketed as part of the FNC. This is a long way of saying that I agree with the choices for which articles to include this topic. --PresN 20:36, 11 May 2021 (UTC)

Question, what about Final Fantasy Agito and Final Fantasy Awakening? The main article says they are part of this game collection. Also, can we get sometime to say whether the final Fantasy XIII sequels should be included here or listed as a subtopic? Judgesurreal777 (talk) 20:31, 11 May 2021 (UTC)

@Judgesurreal777: I was taking the Ivalice FT as my template for referencing subtopics. --ProtoDrake (talk) 20:37, 11 May 2021 (UTC)

Support - article looks great, nice to see this topic emerge! Judgesurreal777 (talk) 22:23, 11 May 2021 (UTC)

@Judgesurreal777: See my note above. I think that solves the issue. --ProtoDrake (talk) 10:21, 12 May 2021 (UTC)

• Comment Weak support: The main article says that this series "currently consists of seven games", which suggests that this topic should be those seven games? I don't understand the relationships among the different titles very well. You're saying that three of the titles are "central" to the series, and the rest can be grouped under them. I guess that probably works, if people more familiar with the topic agree that the other four titles are subordinate spin-offs to these three. A navbox linking the articles is there, but there should probably also be a category for these titles, if indeed they are part of a well-defined subseries. -Bryan Rutherford (talk) 11:52, 12 May 2021 (UTC)
  • @Bryanrutherford0: The three in this article are the three originally announced as part of the FNC. The additional games around each title emerged in response to that title, not as part of the overall project's planned scope. I'd originally intended to include all titles, but decided it was better to keep the topic focused and not have too many topics overlapping. --ProtoDrake (talk) 12:05, 12 May 2021 (UTC)
  • @Bryanrutherford0: I've created and populated a Category:Fabula Nova Crystallis Final Fantasy. --PresN 17:05, 14 May 2021 (UTC)
    • I guess I'll switch to weak support; it still seems to me that it might be better for this topic to just be the seven game articles and leave out the subtopics, but I won't insist on it. -Bryan Rutherford (talk) 17:16, 14 May 2021 (UTC)
• Okay as someone not familiar FF this topic includes: the sub series and the three central games (Final Fantasy XIII, Final Fantasy Type-0, Final Fantasy XV) and does not include: Final Fantasy XIII-2,Lightning Returns: Final Fantasy XIII (linked to XIII) and Final Fantasy Agito Final Fantasy Awakening (linked to Type-0) which all 4 are in the sub series. Correct me if I am wrong on that. Typically series topics have to include all games with said series. In this case it would include all of them but four of them would be under subtopics not directly in the topic itself. I feel okay with this but if one of the subtopics later falls into disrepair as is demoted it would no longer include all games either directly or indirectly so somewhat ambivalent on that front. Will probably wait on more comments before deciding. Also related note, looking at the topic for XIII two new character articles were made in 2019 (Oerba Yun Fang, Oerba Yun Fang) and seem to fall under that topic's scope. Regards  Spy-cicle💥  ^Talk? 01:12, 14 May 2021 (UTC)

• @Spy-cicle: There are several featured topics that have subtopics where some or all of the articles in the subtopic could reasonably be included in the parent topic as well, so I don't think this sets a precedent. It's reasonable to assume that if one of the games in the Type-0 or FF13 topics gets delisted and causes the topic to be delisted, that it would affect this parent topic as well. In regards to the FF13 character articles- I'll fix this problem; we can easily either adjust the topic to only have the "characters" article and not the sub-articles on individual characters, or merge the two non-GA characters back to the parent article; I'm inclined to do the former as I don't think they needed to be split out in the first place. --PresN 17:10, 14 May 2021 (UTC)

• @Spy-cicle: Regarding your specific concern above, PresN has merged the Vanille and Fang articles back into the XIII character articles. Further discussions may take place regarding them, but for the moment the XIII topic isn't in immediate danger of being taken down. --ProtoDrake (talk) 21:25, 17 May 2021 (UTC)
• @PresN: Okay based on what you have said here particularly in regards to this part of your comment (It's reasonable to assume that if one of the games in the Type-0 or FF13 topics gets delisted and causes the topic to be delisted, that it would affect this parent topic as well) I see where your coming from. Based on current status on this topic and the subtopics (particularly the statuses of those sub games that are still part of the whole series) I am somewhat ready to support it. If at a later date, some parts of it fall into disrepair then I think we can revisit it then (particularly if those sub games fall into disrepair). Could someone first sort out the trans-title parameters simliar to the previous topic nomination though. Thanks Regards  Spy-cicle💥  ^Talk? 02:44, 20 May 2021 (UTC)

• @Spy-cicle: Trans-titles added to FF13/FF15. --PresN 14:08, 20 May 2021 (UTC)

• It seems the FNC article also needs going over in terms of trans-titles (also final ref from 4Gamer says "date mismatch").  Spy-cicle💥  ^Talk? 03:06, 22 May 2021 (UTC)

• @Spy-cicle: Trans-titles added to FNC. --PresN 03:36, 22 May 2021 (UTC)

• Support.  Spy-cicle💥  ^Talk? 03:42, 22 May 2021 (UTC)

• Support Comments the references should not be in the lead of Final Fantasy XIII, especially when this information is sourced in the body of the article. The fourth paragraph is also too short and needs rewording slightly so it's not identical to the body; fix the length by moving parts towards the end of the third para to the fourth since that is currently too long itself. Ref 2 is also an issue for this article due to not having a proper title but for the most part, I commend the effort put into these extensive articles! --K. Peake 16:43, 17 May 2021 (UTC)
  • @Kyle Peake: I've addressed the lead issues you've raised, i.e. trimming out the huge amount of fluff put in post-promotion. I also removed a couple of uncited and unnecessary statements from the gameplay. It needs a bit of a lookthrough, but I think it'll suffice for the present. --ProtoDrake (talk) 17:54, 17 May 2021 (UTC)

• ProtoDrake Looks better now, though I forgot to note that the article also includes a ref in the infobox that can be removed from there. --K. Peake 18:00, 17 May 2021 (UTC)

• @Kyle Peake: Done, hope that addresses the main concerns here. --ProtoDrake (talk) 18:15, 17 May 2021 (UTC)

• ProtoDrake After removing the ref for 7 million copies sold from one area, you accidentally removed it altogether... re-add in the place of the citation error and I am not entirely sure what the A list-defined reference error is in the article, but try to fix it please. --K. Peake 19:00, 17 May 2021 (UTC)

• @Kyle Peake: I checked the reference, and it's an opinion piece that uses the highly unreliable VGChartz for sales data, so I've removed that info entirely from the article. I've also corrected the second ref error, which referred to Lightning Returns and is now used in the Sequels section. Hope this sorts things. --ProtoDrake (talk) 19:07, 17 May 2021 (UTC)

Comment: I would suggest replacing Development of Final Fantasy XV (which also assessed as a GA class article) as part of the Fabula Nova Crystallis Final Fantasy good topic instead of Final Fantasy XV itself. The reason is because FFXV as the final product has very loose to almost no connection at all to the original mythos or its marketing campaign/strategy, whereas the 10 year development cycle as described in Development of Final Fantasy XV covers in extensive detail about that game's origins as an installment of Fabula Nova Crystallis Final Fantasy subseries. Haleth (talk) 14:10, 2 June 2021 (UTC)

@Haleth: I appreciate your point, but a game and its development are inseparable from each other. XV's always been a problem child within FNC, but there remains a developer-attested thematic connection that's addressed in the main article, the dev article, and the FNC article. I can put the development within the box as a part of the topic, which would solve the problem without undercutting the point of this topic as documenting FNC and its three acknowledged games. --ProtoDrake (talk) 14:59, 2 June 2021 (UTC)

Ok, sure. Versus XIII is covered in detail within the Development of Final Fantasy XV article afterall. Haleth (talk) 22:36, 3 June 2021 (UTC)

@Haleth: Done. Hope it's suitable. --ProtoDrake (talk) 22:44, 3 June 2021 (UTC)

Ok. Support. Haleth (talk) 13:14, 4 June 2021 (UTC)

@GamerPro64:, does this nomination need anything else, or is it ready for approval do you think? Judgesurreal777 (talk) 20:03, 18 July 2021 (UTC)

• Closed with a consensus to promote to Featured Topic - Aza24 (talk) 14:57, 25 July 2021 (UTC)

Final Fantasy Type-0

Final Fantasy Type-0

5 articles

Final Fantasy Type-0 HD

Characters of the Final Fantasy Type-0 universe

Final Fantasy Agito

Final Fantasy Awakening

Contributor(s): ProtoDrake

I've been working on this GT on and off for several years sort of by accident, with the most recent being Awakening. Due to a number of factors, it's unlikely that this series will see future expansion, so this topic is likely to be a stable one overall. The Type-0 series as a whole has also received media attention and notoriety due to a number of factors, including the lack of localization for the original game and the production and fate of its mobile spin-offs. Thanks for reviewing! --ProtoDrake (talk) 10:21, 12 May 2021 (UTC)

(Note: There is a parallel FT nomination for Fabula Nova Crystallis, the subseries of which Type-0 forms a part. That nomination is dedicated to the subseries article and its three core titles, but given their distinct nature in gameplay and tone, combined with the unique nature of the FNC series, it doesn't make sense to merge them into a single topic.)

• Support: Seems like a coherent topic, a game and its remaster and minor spin-offs and an associated FL. All are at GA, all are linked by navboxes; seems like there should probably be a category within Category:Final Fantasy video games for these. -Bryan Rutherford (talk) 13:19, 12 May 2021 (UTC)

• Category created and added. --PresN 17:19, 14 May 2021 (UTC)

• Support: Nice to see all this excellent work culminate in one well done topic! Judgesurreal777 (talk) 15:10, 12 May 2021 (UTC)
• Includes the main game, its characters, its port and two heavily related spin-offs in the same universe. Seems to meet the scope of topic. Great work. Happy to support once the trans-title parameters are filled in for the Japanese references (also it would great if you could add some free images of the developers for Type-0 and related which there already appears to be avaiable but I won't let that hold up the nomination).  Spy-cicle💥  ^Talk? 01:25, 14 May 2021 (UTC)

• @Spy-cicle: I went and added trans-titles myself to all 5 articles. --PresN 16:14, 14 May 2021 (UTC)

• @PresN: Great thank you for doing this. Support. Regards  Spy-cicle💥  ^Talk? 16:24, 14 May 2021 (UTC)

• Support - can't see anything additional needed here. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 16:13, 14 May 2021 (UTC)
• Support Comments the references are not needed in the infoboxes of Final Fantasy Agito and Final Fantasy Type-0 HD, as the information they are used for is already sourced in the body. Also, the usage of Square Enix Blog and similar sources in articles of this topic does not strike me as entirely reliable though in general, these articles look good and will make a fantastic topic. --K. Peake 17:51, 17 May 2021 (UTC)
  • @Kyle Peake: Infobox issue sorted. But I feel I must defend the use of SQEX's official blog and similar primary sources. Usually they're either the most reliable or the only sources for the cited information. I've only used fan websites and similar when they are original interviews, otherwise going for other sources. --ProtoDrake (talk) 18:19, 17 May 2021 (UTC)

• ProtoDrake Thank you for explaining the sources; I do understand why these blogs are different from the ones written against at WP:SELFPUB with proper context. --K. Peake 18:57, 17 May 2021 (UTC)

• Support, Final Fantasy fans are too ambitious. It scares me. Panini!^🥪 12:01, 26 May 2021 (UTC)
• Support per rationales made by other editors. Haleth (talk) 15:07, 4 June 2021 (UTC)
• Support passes all the GT criteria. KingSkyLord (talk | contribs) 23:45, 22 June 2021 (UTC)
• Does this need anything else @GamerPro64:, @Aza24:? This review and the other Final Fantasy topic review seem ready to approve. Judgesurreal777 (talk) 17:02, 14 July 2021 (UTC)
• Closed with a consensus to promote to Good Topic - GamerPro64 02:57, 16 July 2021 (UTC)