User talk:Wiki142B

May 2024

Hello, I'm MrOllie. Wikipedia is written by people who have a wide diversity of opinions, but we try hard to make sure articles have a neutral point of view. Your recent edit to Aquaponics seemed less than neutral and has been removed. If you think this was a mistake, or if you have any questions, you can leave me a message on my talk page. Thank you. MrOllie (talk) 23:58, 2 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Can you please mention which sections did not seem neutral so i can adjust it please, I added quite a lot of details into my edit and they were about many different people. Wiki142B (talk) 00:02, 3 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

All of them. Your writing is full of value-laden wording: examples include 'significant', 'pioneering', 'visionaries', 'significant strides', and so on. Please don't remove just those words and put the edits back - those are examples. You need to get familiar with how things are done on Wikipedia. WP:NPOV and WP:NOR are core policies here. MrOllie (talk) 00:23, 3 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Welcome!

Hello, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions; however, please remember the essential rule of respecting copyrights. Edits to Wikipedia, such as your edit to the page Integrated Aqua-Vegeculture System, may not contain material from copyrighted sources unless that text is available under a suitable free license. It is almost never okay to copy extensive text out of a book or website and paste it into a Wikipedia article with little or no alteration, though you can clearly and briefly quote copyrighted text in the right circumstances. Content that does not comply with this legal rule must be removed. For more information on this, see:

If you still have questions, there is the Teahouse, or you can click here to ask a question on your talk page and someone will be along to answer it shortly. As you get started, you may find the pages below to be helpful.

I hope you enjoy editing Wikipedia! Please sign your name on talk pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically produce your name and the date. Feel free to write a note on the bottom of my talk page if you want to get in touch with me. Again, welcome! — Diannaa (talk) 12:58, 12 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The material I added is 100% open source and copyright free and I also asked permission from one of the authors. ~~~~ Wiki142B (talk) 21:22, 12 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The edits I added were removed due to copyright concern, but they are in fact not coyright and when I tried to restore what was deleted the page is removed and there is nothing left in the delete log? Is this normal? Wiki142B (talk) 21:25, 12 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The place where I found the matching content is here. I was able to download a copy of the article from ResearchGate and it is a 1993 journal article. There's no evidence that this article is free of copyright. In fact, open licenseing such as Creative Commons did not yet exist in 1993. If the copyright holders with to release the article under a compatible license, we need to have documentation that shows the copyright holders. Wikipedia has procedures in place for this purpose. Please see WP:Donating copyrighted materials for an explanation of how to do it. There's a sample permission email at WP:Consent. (We can't take your word for it that someone has given you permission to post it here.)

The revisions containing the copyright material were hidden from view under under criterion RD1 of the revision deletion policy, and that's why you can't access them any more. — Diannaa (talk) 02:47, 13 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

That is incorrect.

When you view the full content from Wiley you can see that the first 2 pages are the ONLY pages that contain the article journal and were taken from pages 331 and 332 of the journal. If you skip forward to page 428 there is an copy of the actual paper, as written in the journal where it says: "Full scientific article from which this summary was written begins on page 428 of this issue."

The copy at Researchgate was uploaded by one of the authors and is a direct photocopy of the paper as it was published in the journal, that is why it contains mention of the journal at the bottom of the pages on the researchgate link, but. most importantly, it does not contain ANY journal article or original content and it should not be removed.

In summary, the paper itself is a total of 5 pages long. The content on Researchgate is 5 pages in total. The content on Wiley has an additional 2 pages, the extra 2 pages on Wiley are the journal article and those 2 pages were not added to this wikipedia page. .

IAVS and all it's research has been made open source and therefore copyright free and was advertised on the website that is run by one of the authors you can see at https://iavs.info/tale-a-tour/

I will contact the author and ask to have a cc license added, if this is not needed, please let me know.

. Wiki142B (talk) 04:49, 13 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

'Open source' is absolutely NOT the same thing as 'copyright free'. And even if the text in question is copyright free - it must be added in a way that properly credits the author(s). MrOllie (talk) 11:39, 13 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Noted, thank you. Wiki142B (talk) 22:17, 13 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Yes please do contact the author(s) and have them send us an email releasing the material to the public domain or under license. Please see WP:Donating copyrighted materials for an explanation of how to do it. There's a sample permission email at WP:Consent. — Diannaa (talk) 14:06, 13 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Will do, thanks for the advice. Wiki142B (talk) 22:18, 13 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Notice

I reverted one of you edits at Integrated Aqua-Vegeculture System for being out of scope. Just thought to be courteous and inform you, since it looks like you put a lot of effort into the edit. However, most people looking for the IAVS probably would not be looking for the entire academic histories of people who contributed to it, only, well, the IAVS itself and maybe a small amount of backstory about its invention. Bremps... 03:54, 2 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you, this is great timing, I realized I was creating a "wall of text" that is against wikipedia's recommended guide and so I stopped to seek advice before putting in a lot of work that may be deleted or not needed. I also wondered if some of the figures are notable enough to have their own pages, such as Merle Jensen, Paul Nelson and Doug Sanders. Would it be appropriate to list the members of the research group, but skip any additional information about them? Wiki142B (talk) 04:04, 2 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I think removing the entire entry was going too far, I think it should stand that the research team should be credited, perhaps it would be better to put in paragraph format to avoid a 'wall of text'. You said "most people looking for the IAVS probably would not be looking for the entire academic histories of people who contributed to it" and I will counter by suggesting that the research group should be credited, but I will also agree that their academic history need not be posted. I will wait for further comment, if no reply is received I shall add the list of researchers involved in paragraph form but not go into details about them. Wiki142B (talk) 04:07, 2 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Sure, listing significant contributors is reasonable. It's best to filter through them to find the most important few names and to state what they specifically contributed in prose form, probably under a section called "Invention" or "History". Listing them one by one, like "John, Mary, Jane, Joe, Maria, Albert, Qiang, Roberto, Sato, Gordon, Harry, Elizabeth... Liza and Alfonso contributed" would not be advisable, however. Bremps... 04:13, 2 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I think I should include the principle investigator, the co-investigators and the principle consultants, but how would I do this without mentioning their names "one by one" and how would I do this to avoid going into detail about their academic histories? If I add the information into the 'talk' page, would you be interested in writing the content for the actual article? Wiki142B (talk) 04:17, 2 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It's a weird story of how I got here, but no, I'm not as familiar with the technical content of the article as you. I would recommend consulting the discovery of the neutron page for inspiration on formatting and prose. Bremps... 05:24, 2 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you, I will take the time to read that page before any additional edits or additions. I had assumed all new edits were checked by moderators, if your 'weird story of how you got here' is suitable for a 'talk page' I would love to hear it! Wiki142B (talk) 06:29, 2 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

There's this website called Listen to Wikipedia. Every recent Wikipedia edit is translated to a "ding", with large ones translated to a "dong". It sort of makes wind-chime style music. I was using it to relax while doing work (try it!) when I heard a really loud "dong". That was your edit. I just wanted to see what that was about. Bremps... 17:17, 2 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

July 2024

Your edit to Aquaponics has been removed in whole or in part, as it appears to have added copyrighted material to Wikipedia without evidence of permission from the copyright holder. If you are the copyright holder, please read Wikipedia:Donating copyrighted materials for information on how to contribute your work appropriately. For legal reasons, Wikipedia strictly cannot host copyrighted text or images from print media or digital platforms without an appropriate and verifiable license. Contributions infringing on copyright will be removed. You may use external websites or publications as a source of information, but not as a source of content, such as sentences or images—you must write using your own words. Wikipedia takes copyright very seriously, and persistent violators of our copyright policy will be blocked from editing. See Wikipedia:Copying text from other sources for more information. — Diannaa (talk) 13:48, 23 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Noted. I also removed other instances of references to the same paper to ensure I will not be blocked from editing. Wiki142B (talk) 23:37, 23 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Today I have removed copyright content you added to Integrated Aqua-Vegeculture System. Please don't add copyright material to Wikipedia. — Diannaa (talk) 23:35, 25 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I also removed a large amount of copyvio from Aquaponics. — Diannaa (talk) 01:10, 26 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Diannaa, I found another one. I've already removed it from the article; don't know if it's serious enough for a huge scrubbing. Drmies (talk) 22:11, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I would not do revision deletion back that far. Diannaa (talk) 22:54, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Drmies mentioned above that he found "another one", and upon closer inspection ;The line "The evolution of the “flood and drain systems” adopted in backyard aquaponics comes back to the pioneering work of Mark McMurtry" was removed, and, looking closer, that reference comes from the paper "Rharrhour, Haytam; Wariaghli, Fatima; Goddek, Simon; Sadik, Mohamed; Moujtahid, Aziz El; Nhhala, Hassan; Yahyaoui, Ahmed (2022). "Towards sustainable food productions in Morocco: Aquaponics". E3S Web of Conferences. 337: 03004. Bibcode:2022E3SWC.33703004R. doi:10.1051/e3sconf/202233703004. ISSN 2267-1242.' which, from what I can see, is an open access article distributed under the terms of the Creative Commons Attribution License 4.0 (http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/4.0/). So therefore, the quote should be put back in the article, it should never have been removed. Why was it?

The entire quote, from the source, is; " The evolution of the “flood and drain systems” adopted in backyard aquaponics comes back to the pioneering work of Mark McMurtry, in the 80s, inventor of Integrated AquaVegeculture System (IAVS). Tom and Paula Speraneo adopted, in the early 1990s, the North Carolina State University system to invent a full-size commercial-scale solar greenhouse ."

Looking even further, this line was also removed "based on systems that were partly developed from the original concepts established at North Carolina State University by McMurtry and the iAVs research group" and this quote was attributed to the source mentioned above, which is, once again, an open access article distributed under the terms of the Creative Commons Attribution License 4.0. I fail to see why that was removed. The source does not have that duirect quote, but, in the context of the other line, you can see it is clearly paraphrased from the source.

I respectfully ask that other editors can look into this and so it does not become personal, or, as mentioned earlier, an editing war.

I am awaiting advice from other editors but I think the best way forward is to file a dispute resolution over this consistent, indiscriminate deletion where, a piece of text is removed, and the reason is given, but upon inspection, the reason is either not valid, or, when valid, additional sections are removed that do not fit the reason given. I have repeatedly addressed this and have been ignored.

Due to the COI and advice from other editors I have discontinued all editing, i have not attempted to undo anything, I have, instead, shared my concerns in the talk page (for the aquaponics page, as well as the integrated aquavegeculture system page, and a short discussion at the teahouse. I have done everything I can to avoid an editing war.

Noe of my questions have been answered, I think that I have been quite polite and respectful about this. I therefore ask, why was content that is free to use under creative commons removed? In the context of all the other indiscriminate deletions and failure to answer any of my questions I question whether this is actually a form of vandalism. In the previous times it could easily be interpreted as acting in good faith, but in the context it would seem that there is a deeper issue here, like perhaps the COI lies with the other party as the removal seems selective and targeted.

Given the comment about a "huge scrubbing", and the consistent indiscriminate deletions and refusal to even answer any of my concerns in he talk page at Talk:Integrated Aqua-Vegeculture System I request advice from as many other editors as possible to prevent what may be a form of targeted and selective vandalism. Wiki142B (talk) 04:20, 17 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oh, sorry--didn't look for "free" content, since I'm not used to that (I guess Diannaa didn't see that either). As an English teacher, copying material verbatim without quotation marks is plagiarism, but of course that's not the same as a copyright violation. Sorry. Also, can you tone it down please? Jesus, all this yelling. "Huge scrubbing" refers to the removing of copyright violations from the history, which in this case would have been huge cause it's many edits ago, and a number of edits of yours from the same period were already removed. Plus, of course, copying someone else's writing may be allowed in this case, but it's hardly good practice.

You're getting way too upset over this and it leads you to misinterpret what I said. I think somewhere you acknowledged that you're on some research project, but you have filled up the various article talk pages, this talk page, and the Teahouse section with so much material that I can't find anything anymore. I think it's time you follow the guidelines in WP:COI, and properly declare your COI--and start acting in accordance with those guidelines. Drmies (talk) 13:47, 17 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

There is no COI. Wiki142B (talk) 21:06, 17 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Your submission at Articles for creation: Merle Jensen (August 27)

Your recent article submission to Articles for Creation has been reviewed. Unfortunately, it has not been accepted at this time. The reason left by CFA was:

This submission does not appear to be written in the formal tone expected of an encyclopedia article. Entries should be written from a neutral point of view, and should refer to a range of independent, reliable, published sources. Please rewrite your submission in a more encyclopedic format. Please make sure to avoid peacock terms that promote the subject.

The comment the reviewer left was:

Please see MOS:DOCTOR.

Please check the submission for any additional comments left by the reviewer. You are encouraged to edit the submission to address the issues raised and resubmit after they have been resolved.

If you would like to continue working on the submission, go to Draft:Merle Jensen and click on the "Edit" tab at the top of the window.
If you do not edit your draft in the next 6 months, it will be considered abandoned and may be deleted.
If you need any assistance, or have experienced any untoward behavior associated with this submission, you can ask for help at the Articles for creation help desk, on the reviewer's talk page or use Wikipedia's real-time chat help from experienced editors.

C F A 💬 22:17, 27 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hello, Wiki142B! Having an article draft declined at Articles for Creation can be disappointing. If you are wondering why your article submission was declined, please post a question at the Articles for creation help desk. If you have any other questions about your editing experience, we'd love to help you at the Teahouse, a friendly space on Wikipedia where experienced editors lend a hand to help new editors like yourself! See you there! C F A 💬 22:17, 27 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Your submission at Articles for creation: Merle Jensen (September 3)

Your recent article submission to Articles for Creation has been reviewed. Unfortunately, it has not been accepted at this time. The reason left by Ldm1954 was:

This draft's references do not show that the subject qualifies for a Wikipedia article. In summary, the draft needs to

meet any of the eight academic-specific criteria
or cite multiple reliable, secondary sources independent of the subject, which cover the subject in some depth

Make sure your draft meets one of the criteria above before resubmitting. Learn about mistakes to avoid when addressing this issue. If the subject does not meet any of the criteria, it is not suitable for Wikipedia.

The comment the reviewer left was:

Please read carefully the criteria in WP:NPROF. You have written an extended CV, but that is what is needed. You need to demonstrate that others think he is notable. Please reduce the length a lot (50%) and focus on notability. He might pass, but not with this article currently.

Please check the submission for any additional comments left by the reviewer. You are encouraged to edit the submission to address the issues raised and resubmit after they have been resolved.

If you would like to continue working on the submission, go to Draft:Merle Jensen and click on the "Edit" tab at the top of the window.
If you do not edit your draft in the next 6 months, it will be considered abandoned and may be deleted.
If you need any assistance, or have experienced any untoward behavior associated with this submission, you can ask for help at the Articles for creation help desk, on the reviewer's talk page or use Wikipedia's real-time chat help from experienced editors.

Ldm1954 (talk) 00:30, 3 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

September 2024

Your edit to Aquaponics has been removed in whole or in part, as it appears to have added copyrighted material to Wikipedia without evidence of permission from the copyright holder. If you are the copyright holder, please read Wikipedia:Donating copyrighted materials for information on how to contribute your work appropriately. For legal reasons, Wikipedia strictly cannot host copyrighted text or images from print media or digital platforms without an appropriate and verifiable license. Contributions infringing on copyright will be removed. You may use external websites or publications as a source of information, but not as a source of content, such as sentences or images—you must write using your own words. Wikipedia takes copyright very seriously, and persistent violators of our copyright policy will be blocked from editing. See Wikipedia:Copying text from other sources for more information. This is your final warning. Further violation of Wikipedia's copyright policy will result in you being blocked from editing. — Diannaa (talk) 19:12, 24 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-ShareAlike 4.0 International (CC BY-NC-SA 4.0) license is not a compatible license. — Diannaa (talk) 19:13, 24 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry I thought it was the correct license, I can see now that I am meant to use CC BY-NC-SA 4.0 only. Wiki142B (talk) 20:18, 24 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I will go through the article now and remove the other content I used from that source to make sure I do not get blocked. Wiki142B (talk) 20:26, 24 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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